Superman and Punk Rock Heroism

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Be inspired to do things differently.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
This is Below the Line podcast brought to you by the nobodies
of Hollywood. I'm Dylan.
And I'm Jesse, and guess what? Chat you know I don't know how

(00:28):
the theme goes but yo what's up Chad it's episode 20 we finally
fucking made it what it do and. Milestone episode.
Milestone. Yeah, second milestone, third
one actually. Yeah, it was 10/15/20 and.
Define the odds 11 milestone at a time.
Exactly. And you know, to mark this

(00:49):
momentous occasion in podcasting, in, you know,
podcasting terms, we're finally doing it, guys.
We've teased, we teased on episode 18, briefly mentioned it
episode 19. Well, here it is, guys.
This is now officially the Belowthe Line episode.

(01:09):
I'm sorry, this is this is the Below the Line podcast, Episode
20. We're finally talking about
Superman. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, here
it is episode 20. We just thought it was
appropriate. We we assumed that the Internet
would survive without our immediate input on Superman.

(01:33):
So we decided after we recorded episode 18, we actually went and
watched Superman again that verysame night.
Yup. Just to make sure that we were
really locked and loaded for this.
Yup. And I just want to like, like
say on like on the mic that likeyo, we, we recorded episode 18
like 4 days ago yeah, just finished recording episode 19

(01:56):
and now we're going to do episode 20.
So like chat, like, hey, about it.
We're putting, yeah, we're putting in the work, bringing
our voice, Voice. How's it entertainment or this
entertainment, like to you, the casual listener and like the
dedicated listener. But yeah, we could have recorded
Superman for episode 18, but we had only watched it that one

(02:19):
time. And I didn't want it to be like
just our initial thoughts, whichkind of was.
But I don't want the whole episode to be like that.
So. And like Dylan, like, he really
wanted to watch it a second timeto like, really, really see like
how he felt about it. Yeah.
And I was not going to say no toa rewatch.
So we rewatched it. Yeah.
And we didn't want to do it for.We didn't want to do it for

(02:40):
episode 19 because that's just aweird number to.
Do it on. Yeah, very weird.
Still one of my favorite episodes recorded.
It's. One of the most fun episodes.
I think Yup. Go listen to it.
Episode 19 of Below, his own podcast.
But you know that correctly. Yes, but Superman, it's finally
here. The movie has finally arrived

(03:02):
and we are now finally going to give our deep dive thoughts
about it. Yes, it's been interesting to
see the reaction to this movie because leading up to it, there
was already a bunch of bullshit controversy about it because of
warring fan factions. Yep.

(03:24):
And that was annoying. I'm just gonna come out and say
that. And it was so dumb, too.
Yeah, like the guys. The DCU is dead.
I'm sorry. It's done.
It is. It's dead.
It's been over for a while, like.
It's not coming back. Stop.
It's not being sold to Netflix. Yeah, like Superman already came
back in, you know, in that universe, he's not coming back
again. Yeah.

(03:45):
Henry Cavill. Superman gone.
He's on to to newer projects. Maybe he'll be James Bond.
Yeah, maybe. You know what?
I I can see that. I'd rather, I'd rather, I'd
rather it be James Bond than or I'd rather it be him than
fucking who was the other one? Tom Holland, Or like, what was
the other name being thrown around for James Bond?

(04:08):
It's escaping me at the moment. Yeah, it's Tom Holland.
Jesus Christ. I wouldn't even watch but.
We're not here to talk about TomHolland.
We're here to talk about, hey, what's that Superman actors
name? David Cornsway.
We're here to talk about David Cornsway's Immaculate
performance as both Superman andvery briefly as Tarkan.

(04:29):
Very, very briefly. It's like upon the second
rewatch chat spoilers, spoilers,spoilers Yeah, we're.
Superman, there is no spoilers, I held.
Back on episode 18. I am not holding back on this
episode. If you have not seen Superman
2025 by James Gunn, come back tothis episode later.

(04:50):
I'm not. I'm not gonna say don't listen.
To episode 19 and come back after you watch.
Actually no. Continue playing this episode
but just mute us. Give us that play.
There we go, run the numbers up.But yeah, this is going to be
spoiler heavy. We I'm going to get into it.
So yeah, there's you've been warned.
Yeah, there is no discretion here.

(05:12):
Yep, no rock will go unturned. We will.
We will go, you know, through every little nitty gritty thing
about the movie. Yep.
Especially like, you know, ClarkKent, which there was very
little of him. Yeah, there was like 3 or 4
scenes with Clark Kent, right? And I wish we would have gotten
more of that, to be honest with you.

(05:32):
Same like I do wish we would have gotten or Clark Kent, but
at the same time, I do feel thatfuck, what's his name really?
Corn sweat? Our boy David, You know, he was
able to like, you know, I think he was able to perfectly capture
both like the confidence and charisma of Superman and also

(05:53):
like, you know, like the meekness and like Smallville
aspect of Clark Kent. Even though Clark Kent he's not
featured prominently in this movie, I feel like our boy David
was able to, you know, distinguish the characters
enough or like, you know, kind of like Sinners with Michael V
Jordan. Like, hey, there's, there's,
there's two guests are played bythe same actor, but like,

(06:13):
they're two different personas. So yeah, I, I do, I wish there
was more Clark Kent. Yeah, but at, at the same time,
I, I give. But, you know, props to our boy
David. Like, I think he nailed it.
Yeah, better than Henry Cavill. Like he nailed the absolute fuck
out of this role. Yes, I agree.

(06:34):
I think David Corn Sweat is generally fantastic in this
film. It's tough to say that he is the
Superman because I, I do have a fondness for Superman the movie
from 1978. But I think, you know, as far

(06:55):
as, as current generations go, Iwould not be surprised if he's
the definitive Superman for people our age and then
especially Gen. Z growing up with with this
Superman because who knows what's to come.
But I agree with you that he dida good job delineating between
the personalities of Superman and Clark Kent, despite the fact

(07:19):
that Clark Kent wasn't in the movie much.
I said that I wish we got more of Clark, but I don't.
I don't think I would say that'sa criticism of mine, which I
think that probably sounds weird, but I I think it makes
sense to have focused the majority of this story on

(07:41):
Superman because we haven't had a true solo Superman film since
2013, which is kind of hard to believe given the landscape and
the ubiquity of comic book films.
So I don't mind that this movie was very Superman heavy, but

(08:05):
here's what I would say. It actually reminded me a lot of
The Batman. In the sense.
That Batman was in the suit for about 85% of the film, right.
And, and it's kind of a similar situation here.
Superman is the one that gets most of the screen time for
like, yeah, 85 to 90% of the movie.

(08:26):
Yeah. As opposed to Clark Kent and
Bruce Wayne. I thought that was an
interesting parallel as someone who does not advocate for the
Batman epic crime saga being folded.
Into the. DCU, right?
I thought that was I just. I couldn't help but notice that.

(08:47):
Right. No, I mean, I think I think it's
great that like this film like just focused heavily like, you
know, on the superhero, less so on like, you know, the alter
alter ego. But I also think like this film
like it's a lot. It throws a lot at.
You. Oh.
Yeah, like honestly, this probably could have been like

(09:08):
like 4 episodes only all packed into just one movie and like all
focusing just like on the adventures of Superman.
Like here's adventure beginning of the movie, Superman loses the
battle. I mean, it's very like it's it's
it's a short like, you know, compared to like the whole film.
It's short, but it's like, you know, like, you know, episode 1

(09:28):
and then episode 2 he fights thefucking knock off what we call
like like 2 episodes ago. It's.
Like a cross between Godzilla and a Pokémon.
Yeah, like what we've got like. The Kaiju.
The Kaiju? Yeah, like episode 2 of
Adventures with Superman, the Kaiju battle in episode 3, it
was the whole being transported into the other world with like

(09:49):
looking for the dogs. Yeah, sequence.
Yeah, in episode 4, like, you know, the climax, the climax.
So it's like, it's it's like, it's a lot they're trying like
James Gunn is trying to tell like a lot of story and like
condense it all and like in like2 hours.
Personally, I was a fan. I I do like it but I can also

(10:09):
understand like for casuals or like other people like this is a
lot of information being thrown at them.
Yeah, See, this is one of my, I think big issues when we watched
it the first time is I just feltkind of overwhelmed by the movie
and not overwhelmed in the good sense where I was being

(10:31):
transcended. Like the first time I heard
Batman's narration in The Batman, I was overwhelmed in the
sense that I was like, oh wow, we're really doing this because
the beginning of the movie is just this kind of like text
crawl that's almost like Star Wars style that explains the

(10:52):
history of the DC Universe. That the only sort of like
framing device it has is it keeps using the number 3 because
it's like 3 centuries. 3 decades3.
Decades. 3 years, three months. Three months and then three.
Yeah, 3 minutes. It keeps on going like that
where it's like, you know, it was like big.

(11:13):
The. Point is, it's always.
Three. Yeah.
It's just always the number three.
That's kind of the only like framing device the movie gives
you to start and then bam, Superman hits the snow.
Like the way the trailer started.
That's how this movie starts. It just it it, I mean, I, I
personally think starting a story in media res can be

(11:37):
really, really effective when it's done well.
I guess I just wasn't prepared for this movie to start this
way. Right.
No, when I saw that trailer, like I dead ass thought like
that was parking being like in the middle of the movie.
Yeah. We walk in at his lowest.
Yeah, We walk into the movie theaters like, boom right away.
It's like, oh, shit. Like we're already watching the

(11:59):
trailer that we saw like a few months ago with the dog, like
crypto, like, OK, yeah, I'm like, all right, James Gunn,
we're here. We're here.
He does the whistle. He's wheezing.
Yeah, he's like coughing up the blood.
It's it's it's interesting. And and yeah, so we get that

(12:20):
that immediate sequence from thetrailer at the very beginning of
this movie. And I thought, OK, you know
what, we're we're coming in hot.Let's let's just see what
happens. And then we get the Fortress of
solitude scene, which I think was good, don't get me wrong.
I and, and what I'm about to sayis, is like very much a first

(12:42):
watch impression after Superman is sort of healed up and he's
like, I got to go back. You know, when they tell him no,
no, no, you're only 87% healed. Like most people would kill to
be 87% healed by the sun. But as he's leaving, we just get
this very serious sequence with the opening of the film.

(13:07):
And then all of a sudden it turns into the what crypto?
What, what are you doing? It's like there's the gun humor.
Right. Yeah, No, there was a there
were. I was.
I'm not going to say this a little bit.
There was a lot of gun humor here, very little gun control,
like he just went ham. The.

(13:28):
Gun was locked and loaded. Yup.
And he was just spraying and praying like and then I think, I
think it worked for this film. Like the tone that he wanted to
set, like, like, yeah, like all the little Crips he had that.
But at the same time, I feel like that's like something that

(13:48):
he brought over from Marvel thathe's probably he can't shake off
because not all his movies are like this that features that
type of humor. Like Bright Brand does not have
that type of gun humor. Super does not have like that
type of gun humor. Like 2013 film, not the new
Super movie. I haven't seen Slither, but
would you say Slitter has like? That's a pretty edgy movie.

(14:11):
Yeah, well, like. So my point is that like, I
think James Gunn after directingGuardians of the Galaxy, like
all the whole trilogy, he brought like that energy into
this film, hopefully moving forward as he like, you know,
tries to shake the Marvel off ofhim.
You're like, you know, go back. Like, yes, I do want like the
jokes and shit, but like sometimes just let let the scene

(14:33):
breathe a little bit more. Let it like, let it maintain its
serious tone just a little bit more.
I agree with with you that I obviously, I think I, I think I
mentioned this in episode 18, which is that I think James Gunn
gets the most important aspects of this film correct, like the

(14:53):
things that he had to nail Bullseye.
You know, he he fired that gun right down the middle in the
sense that he got the characterization of Superman,
right. He got the tone right.
And I think he got the general theme and messaging across to
the audience. You can argue that it was kind

(15:14):
of like baby's first introduction to doing the right
thing, but that, you know, that's, that doesn't matter.
It's it's, it's a Superman movie, right?
But I think because the movie does want to be so sincere and
optimistic, I do think that's why the the gun humor is a
problem. Because if you want to

(15:36):
communicate this hopeful and andoptimistic worldview to get the
audience to believe in humanity or to to just even make the best
choices for themselves every single day, I think you need to
commit to that. And part of sincerity means you

(15:59):
can't always deflate things withhumor.
That and this is not me saying there shouldn't be any humor in
the film. This is going to be my go to
example. Top Gun Maverick.
Like that's a movie that was more or less tone wise.
They're very different movies. Yeah.
But I think, you know, if you really generalize it, they're

(16:21):
they're similar, right, in the sense that they both err on the
side of optimism. The difference with Top Gun is
it commits to that 100%. Like Top Gun is not afraid of
it's, it's more cheesy moments, so to speak.
And I think Superman it, it kindof is.

(16:43):
Right. Yeah, I think, yeah.
Well, I like you said with Superman, it was a little bit
too much in the sense that like you said, like they're they try
to portray like like like they got the tone right.
Yes, like I, I walked away from this movie feeling very hopeful,
very optimistic. So like they got that tone
right. It but it was just like some

(17:04):
like some scenes where it's likeI didn't need that laugh right
now or it's like it kind of liketakes like it took me away, even
though like I was laughing at the same time.
I'm like, did we need that joke or did we need that quip here?
Yeah, I I think that's well said, because it's not as if I
was sitting in the theater with a stone face thinking this is

(17:27):
completely stupid. I did laugh.
I think almost all of the jokes made me laugh.
But like you said, in the back of my mind, yeah, there was of
course that thought process of, I don't know that that needed to
happen, right? Fucking fireworks.
Yep. We are like 3 weeks after 4th of

(17:49):
July and they're still going off.
Yeah. If only Superman was here.
Stop them. God, I wish, man.
But so here's something that I think is is interesting.
So you mentioned that maybe Gun hasn't quite shaken off the MCU
cringe. Yeah, I think that's something

(18:11):
that I actually kind of disagreewith after watch after we
watched it Saturday night. And the only reason I say that
is because there's some things in this Superman movie that
would never happen in an MCU film when Superman is imprisoned

(18:32):
in Lex's pocket dimension with his ex-girlfriend.
Bloggers, social media, influencer girls.
There's a scene where Lex Luthorplays Russian roulette with a
food vendor. All he ever did was help
Superman at the very beginning of the film, and apparently he

(18:54):
he gave him free food once. One time.
Yeah. The point is, Lex Luthor hunts
this man down, plays Russian roulette with this man.
And you know, usually when you get these scenes in movies, they
get like four or five spins on the revolver and then Superman.
No, you don't get that respite. On the second shot, the gun

(19:18):
fires and this man dies. And they show it too.
Yeah, they show it and and that's not happening in a Marvel
movie. I'm sorry, even the edgiest
Marvel movie that's not happening in the Guardians of
the Galaxy film. Or if it does, it's gonna be
with like a laser gun or something.
Yeah, exactly. They might turn the camera
around so you just hear it and then you just hear like the.

(19:38):
Body or you'll you'll see like the reactions of like rocket and
Kimura and they're like they're not quipping, but they're almost
like their expression is Oh well, I guess that happened
right. Like, you know, there's some
actual dark moments in Superman that I I just can't see
happening. In the MCU, right.

(20:02):
So I, I get what you're saying and, and I think to some degree
there's, there's some truth to it, obviously, but I, I, I do
think that he, he is trying to distinguish the DCU from the
MCU, how successful he was. I think that's going to be the
topic of conversation for weeks,probably months to come, right.

(20:27):
But there's some stuff in here that I, I was surprised by.
I mean, yeah. You know what?
I think what I'm what I meant when I'm talking about like
James Gunn is having trouble, like shaking off like his
Marvelisms. It's just mostly like in the

(20:47):
humor department because the jokes did feel like Marvel
esque. I I do agree with you.
Like, yeah, like that scene likethat, that that prisoner scene,
like where Lex Luthor shoots that guy, that's not happening
in a Marvel film. But like, no James Gunn, did he
hear like no gun control? Just And there were a lot of
shits in this Superman movie. Oh yeah.

(21:09):
Like people, we're dropping the shit like basically everything
but the F bomb. Yeah, yeah, I'm surprised.
Like he didn't drop one. Like you're allowed one F bomb
in a PG. 13 And if it was going to be anybody like Guy Gardner
was right there. Yeah, and like, James Gunn has
done it before, like bugging Gardner to the Galaxy Three.
He dropped that 1F bomb. So, like, yeah, but you know,

(21:31):
this movie's about hope. Exactly.
This movie is about hope. So I know you're not the biggest
DC Comics or comic Book guy in general, but as you said, this
movie was a lot, and I agree that it is a lot.

(21:53):
So I think part of the reason that I felt so conflicted when
we walked out of the theater Friday night is because we had
just watched a movie that throwsyou right into the middle of the
action of a Superman story. That expects you to know
Superman's origin story. Expects you to know that he is

(22:18):
involved romantically with Lois Lane.
Expects you to know who Lex Luthor is, who the the Green
Lanterns like, what they are like the Green Lantern core and
how the power ring functions. Expects you to know about things
like Lord Core or whatever the hell it's called.

(22:41):
Maxwell, OR. Maxwell Lord yeah, in in the
film, there's even a a moment where Superman enters SAG
industries. Like, there's so many DC deep
cuts because, like, Metamorpho is introduced in this movie, and
Simon Stagg is the person responsible for creating

(23:03):
Metamorpho. But like, I don't expect general
audiences to know that. And I think the first time we
were watching this movie, I'm sitting there thinking, like, I
just, I don't know, Like, I think this is a lot to ask of
people like, you know, like, yeah, Metamorpho, at least in

(23:24):
the context of the story, has a function.
But like, given that they do show stag industries earlier in
the movie, it's like, does JamesGunn really expect, you know,
everybody to know that Simon Stagg turned Rex into
Metamorpho? I mean, I think James Gunn like

(23:48):
he made this movie for the comicbook nerds.
Like, OK, I how do I say this? Because I do think like there is
some, you know, general general population appeal of this movie.
I think, I think ultimately, like what James Gunn did was
like he made a movie for the fucking nerds, for like the

(24:10):
comic book nerds who want to seelike these little deep cuts
without like, you know, staying much, but just like, you know,
like putting them there. Like he's laying like the
groundwork for the for the DCU and he he had a lot to do and he
did a lot in this film. But I do think like he pulled it
off. Did he pull it off like dude

(24:31):
spectacularly like the Batman? No, of course not.
But he had a lot of ideas and I think he was able to like land
most of them. Like he he set the groundwork
for like, a lot. He did, He did.
He really laid. I think this is a strong
foundation, don't get me wrong, and I think a lot, Yes, it is a

(24:54):
lot. And I mentioned this when we
talked about the movie outside of the theater Friday night.
I think James Gunn is leaning onthe strengths of the DC Comics
as opposed to Marvel because I think there are a few things
that distinguish DC from Marvel.But I think one of the biggest

(25:18):
is that the Marvel Universe, even in the comics, it kind of
just feels like a parallel to our world.
Whereas DC does feel like this mythic, fantastical alternate
reality. So I think James Gunn leaning on
that, depending on the viewer, could be seen as either an

(25:40):
unbelievable positive or it could possibly detract from the
movie. But it doesn't seem like it's
taking away from the movie all that much because the I would
say the general response to thismovie is pretty damn positive.
Very overwhelmingly positive like.

(26:00):
I I just wanted to bring this upbecause you said he set the
foundation in a lot of ways for the DCU.
I don't know if you caught this,but during the Kaiju fight,
there is a big screen on one of the skyscrapers and the sort of

(26:22):
I, I forget what that that thingis at the bottom of a newscast.
There's a word for it, the. Scroller or something.
Oh gosh, there's such a technical term for it, and I'm
pissed that I'm forgetting, but the.
Yeah, the ticker at the bottom. Yeah, like the little ticker
thing. There was a headline on that
screen that said massive floods leaves Gotham suffering.

(26:47):
Oh shit, I didn't know. I did not catch that at all.
See, I saw the floods thing, butI didn't think anything of it.
But of course, the Internet, as they do, took this picture, blew
it up and posted it on Blue Sky.The headline does in fact say
massive floods leaves Gotham suffering.
And that, you know, maybe it's nothing.

(27:08):
Maybe it's just the clever wink.I I think that's what it is.
When I saw that, I'm like, Oh no.
I think it's just a clever wink because I think they, it's
already been like James Gunn hasto like said like, yeah, like
this shit's gonna be separate. And until, like, you know, until
we hear a word otherwise. That, but he waffled on it in a
recent interview with Rolling Stone.

(27:30):
Until we hear otherwise from theJames Gunn or Matt Reeves, I'm
gonna continue to believe there are separate universes.
I want to believe that. I just feel like the pressure is
bro no. Bro no because Matt Reeves
already turned into script. I swear to God, James Gunn is
like, yo, you know, we got to rework the script and delay The
Batman until 20. 20 I don't think that'll happen.

(27:51):
What I'm afraid of is that they're going to say the Batman
trilogy is like super early prequels.
And then the like, the excuse for Robert Pattinson's Batman
being like lighter is, oh, well,he has Damien now, he has the
Bat family. Like the Batman films, they're
great. They're more artsy.

(28:13):
They're a lot better than what we're doing over here.
But those were prequels. That's why he was all Moody and
and wearing the eyeliner. I just feel like there's such a
allergies aren't any better, guys.
I feel like there's such a strong sentiment online to push
Pattinson into this universe, right?

(28:34):
And I don't. I, I, I I'm not.
Trying to turn the conversation into this, but I just, when I
saw that screenshot, because I did notice the flood thing as we
were watching the movie, but I didn't think anything of it.
I was like, oh, interesting. Right.
But then when I saw the the screenshot on blue sky I thought
oh. Fuck yeah.

(28:58):
Oh, I'm hoping they don't because I think, OK, this is how
I think it might go down. This is how I'm hoping it's
going to go down. Is that the DCU?
It's going to be like, you know,basically all the DC characters,
like family and friends. Because in the Superman movie,
it's not just Superman. No, it's.
Superman, Crypto, the fucking robots fucking #4 Gary.

(29:21):
And at the very end, like they. Justice Gang.
Yeah, the Justice Gang. And at the very end, like they
tease like, you know, Supergirl and and not even that, like
earlier, like even with within the film, they introduced the
concept of cloning. And if you're nuts too, and if
you're a comic book nerd, then you know that like you know
Superboy, you know, a character in the Superman family, like

(29:45):
Superboy is the clone of Lex Luthor and fucking Superman.
And in this movie, we got a version of Superboy or whatever,
like we got one clone and with with Lex Luthor, yeah.
My question about that, sorry, Ididn't mean to cut you.
Off. No, go ahead.
Was was that supposed to be Bizarro?

(30:06):
Because in the comics Bizarro isa clone of Superman, but he's
obviously like his mind is. More grotesque.
By the process of the cloning and well-being a product of Lex
Luthor, but I like he's Ultraman.
But then when we get the reveal in the final act, I'm I was
sitting there thinking, is that is that bizarro or is that

(30:28):
still? Ultraman, like we might have to
go on a real watch. Like I think James Gunn would
have left us a hint somewhere that we're going to like look
for. But I'm going to choose to
believe that that's not Bizarro yet.
That's just like, you know, one of like the first versions,
early versions of trying to create Superboy because at some
point, like, you know, in the comics, like Superboy is like,

(30:50):
like I said, like the clone and like his powers are like
slightly, I guess similar powersof Superman just got a little
bit extra more. And like, you know, like this,
this movie already like introduced like that concept
that like, hey, like this is notjust going to be a solo Superman
film. This is going to be like
Superman and friends. And I'm hoping like, you know,

(31:10):
like that, that theme carries over to all the DCU films.
So when they deduce like they'reBatman, hopefully it's.
Going to have Robin. Yeah, like Robin, bad girl like
all like the bat family, Nightwing, Nightwing like no
Pattinson or just like, you know, just get me like like, you
know, build up that universe. I think that I think that's the

(31:31):
direction Gun is going to go because like, he introduced a
lot of characters. I think that's what's more
likely to happen as well. I just feel like people are
huffing the hopium right now. Yep.
And the reason I say that is because today the Emmy
nominations were announced and The Penguin received 24 Emmy
nominations. And I know that David Zaslav and

(31:54):
those executives at Warner Brothers have to love the
prestige that Matt Reeves is bringing to the the DC brand,
right? And I just can't imagine them
pressuring him into joining the DCU when The Batman is a
critically acclaimed pop culturephenomenon.
The Penguin is a critically acclaimed pop culture phenomenon

(32:16):
that just received 24 Emmy nominations, right?
I mean, if the Oscars had any sense at all, The Batman would
have received like 8 Oscar nominations.
But they don't, you know, they don't respect superhero films,
right? But you know, the The Batman
realistically should have been nominated for a few things like,
you know, you can you you can, Ithink you can make the argument

(32:39):
it didn't deserve a best picturenomination.
I think it did. But I think like cinematography,
sound design, yeah, you should have, you should have nominated
The Batman. I think it's madness that it
wasn't even nominated for cinematography.
So I, I honestly think in a weird way, Matt Reeves has more
power than James Gunn right now,Right.
So I, I agree with with what yousaid.

(33:03):
I think I'm just kind of lettingthe Internet of sort of
sentiment influence my, my own beliefs right now, even though I
don't want that to happen, right?
Because there's a lot of talk about who should be the Batman
for the DCU, and I see so many uninspired castings like Jensen

(33:25):
Ackles or Alan Richson from Reacher.
That would be so embarrassing togo from an actor of Robert
Pattinson's caliber to Alan Richson.
Like, I think it should be Oliver Jackson Cohen, but I'm
not in those meetings. But if, if by some miracle,
James Gunn or someone hears this, I think Oliver Jackson

(33:48):
Cohen is your guy. Like you want like a super comic
booky Batman. That's your dude.
I'm glad you brought up the cloning because I do think this
is a very comic booky movie, even more so than what we've
already talked about regarding how much it expects the audience

(34:10):
to know certain things and bringing in all these different
characters. It's very comic booky in the
sense that it has some truly outthere.
Yeah, zany concepts, which is like.
I like that. It's like, yeah, like I think
it's like, you know, when comic book movies were coming out,
like I'm thinking Spider Man like the X-Men, like they were.

(34:31):
Like they were afraid to be comic book.
Movies, Yeah, well, I mean Spider Man, I think Spiderman
lead to it, but X-Men, X-Men tried to be like.
You know the leather. Yeah, they tried like, you know,
cycles. They try like, you know, make it
like you know. Edgy and cool and.
Mysterious and like, you know, the MCU like, yeah, no,
actually, no. I think the MCU, they try to
like, you know, get away from like that comic book in this

(34:53):
because like there's a lot of differences between like the how
the characters are portrayed in the MCU versus like their comic
book counterpart. Yeah, like there's the fucking,
there's the Mandarin in like Iron Man 3 and they're like the
Mandarin in the comics. So it's like, yeah, I think
Marvel like and like some movies, like they tried too hard

(35:13):
to like or like, not beat, like,not lean into, like.
That can't be comic bookiness. I think the most comic book
Marvel has ever gone, for obvious reasons, is Infinity
War. Yeah, like when you look at the
the fight on Titan with Thanos, it's like, OK, this is
completely ridiculous, right? But in a comic book.
Sense yeah, you got time travel and all those little boys yeah

(35:35):
it's like all right, you know what like but I think that's OK
cuz it's like it's a comic book movie It's supposed to be zany
and weird crazy, but I do love that you brought up that like
wow, like the Marvel films feel like they're in a parallel
universe or whatever like this like the DC you and it
established it early on like thefor like the opening walk
credits. It was like, yeah, 300 years

(35:57):
ago, got it. Humans have been around.
Yeah, like it's already, it's already an established thing.
And like, you know, when they have like that, that Kaiju
battle or whatever, like people were there, it's like this is an
everyday they're fucking. Filming it?
Yeah, like Snapchat or TikTok. Like if this is a Marvel movie,
like this would be like Thunderbolts.
People would be running the fuckaway, like trying to get away
from the danger. But in the DC, like right here.

(36:17):
Like this is just this is a normal Tuesday.
Dude, I'm so glad you just mentioned Thunderbolts because
fucking proof that Superman for for the for all of its faults,
and I do think it has some obviously is more willing to be

(36:37):
darker and and edgier. Look at the way Thunderbolts
handled that first death of the little girl when void appeared,
when she just disappeared. Oh no, they brought her back
through the power of friendship.I mean, that's not me saying,
you know, oh, I think Thunderbolt sucks now, but I'm
just saying like they, they, that was a really dark moment,

(36:59):
but they found a way to walk it back.
Right. Superman.
No. No.
That guy's done. That guy's done, Yeah, but.
They do try like here, like immortalize them at the end,
like, you know, Clark Kent writes an article about.
Yeah. And I I did like that, like
that, not see. That makes sense though, because
that's in character. Yes, exactly.
I like that, yeah. And OK, so the comic book Y

(37:23):
stuff like this is really interesting.
Cloning. I'm glad you brought the
universe. Yes, cloning pocket universes,
anti proton rivers in the very first movie of the DCU.
This is the kind of stuff that when I saw it, I was thinking to
myself, I I just don't know if this is going to play with

(37:47):
people because I think for as taken aback as I was with the
way the film started and even with the crypto joke at the
beginning, that wasn't where I Istarted to feel like uh oh.
I think the real moment that I wondered what the hell is going
on here is when the Hammer of Borrevia, which is really just

(38:08):
Ultraman in a suit, he flies to the beach with Lex, has this
little encampment. He turns on the portal, walks
through the pocket universe, through another portal, just to
go back to the Luther Core building, which is already in
Metropolis. Like, I understand why you had
to do that because you want to make it look like he's actually

(38:30):
from Boravia. But the minute he walked through
the portal and into the pocket universe, that was the moment
that I was like, oh, this is weird.
Right. Yeah, like this is weird.
Normally in yeah, like normally in movies, like sci-fi movies,
they might do like one or two, like zany things.
Like, you know, if there's like a like a sci-fi movie, like

(38:50):
maybe just pocket universes, that'll be like the only thing.
Everything else would be grounded except for pocket
universes. Like that'll be like it's only
thing or like, you know, where'sthe earth thing?
We mentioned anti proton rivers.Like, like, you know, I can see
that that being like just something in like a movie like
Interstellar, like, like everything's grounded in reality
and just like 1 zany, like little thing.

(39:14):
Nah, Superman, just like it had zany on top of zany on top of
zany on top of zany, which I kind of fuck with because it's
like it's, it's it's establishing.
Like, yeah, no, this is not a parallel to our universe.
Like, this is its own, like lived in universe that has its
own rules and like, like laws ofphysics and all this other
bullshit, which I do like, and I'm gonna say it right now,

(39:36):
Chad. Like I think the only weakness
in the Superman movie is the plot.
Because characterization, my God, hands down, fucking
phenomenal. Like, amazing.
The only complaint I'm gonna have is gonna be about Lex and
like that. That's not to say that like, you
know, Nicholas Holt was not a good actor.
No, he was. He fucking killed that role.

(39:58):
Like he made me like he is the best.
I think on. Screen like I.
By a pretty significant margin. Yeah, like just.
That man is a hater. Yes, it was just it.
It was so easy to hate him, but I loved him for.
It like. Bro just like when he walks into
like the forces of solitude in that in that man trip.

(40:22):
Lex, why are you styling on these hoes?
Right, just and he's just walking like through like
there's like this bad. Like carnage, like it doesn't
face them at all. Doesn't face them at all yeah I
love those moments because I think there's like there's like
2 moments like that there was that moment with Lex Luthor just
like walking through unfazed through all this shit that's
going on and there's like another one where like where Lex

(40:45):
plots on Superman's downfall andlike you know puts out some fake
news yeah like on the media or whatever and Superman's walking
away like just like like tuning everything out and you just see
like a guy like throw a cannon at him and like you know
Superman doesn't flinch just fucking just keeps on I'm like
yes like these are like the little things so like this movie

(41:08):
my only gripe with it is gonna be entirely with the plot and
like in like the pasting and stuff like that because
characterization fucking killed it music I loved it like the
color grading and all this like bro this this was such a
colorful film like it was so nice to fucking see color in a
fucking it was very. Bizarre to see a superhero film

(41:29):
set during the day. Right, like Superman suit
actually be like bright red and like.
Blue and hell yeah with the trunks man.
I am pro Trunks. Yeah, and I fuck with the trunks
too. Yeah, and I do like that the
emblem, the Superman, like the logo them in most portrayals,

(41:52):
like it looks like an S And I think there was like a joke
about it in, you know, the Man of Steel movie where he's kept
where Henry Cavill Superman is captured and integrated,
integrated and no interrogated, interrogated by I think Lois
Lane or someone and she. Think it was actually after the
military. OK, no.
You're right, it was Lois talking to him, but they they

(42:14):
were already at the military. Base for some reason right OK so
it was like some like that scenewhere she like asked him about
like, you know like like the thethe S like the emblem and he
says like, you know back in my like my planet Krypton like this
is like a symbol for hope that'sthe.
Best joke in Man of Steel because that Superman represents
anything but hope. Jesus Christ, fuck no.

(42:36):
You're. Right, but you should have said
it represents destruction. And like Lois Lane is like that
looks like an SI do like that inthis Superman movie.
Like it does look more so like asymbol.
It does look like an alien. Yeah, like you can obviously,
you can obviously like see the pattern of like the S but like
it does like look like it's own,like symbol.

(42:57):
Like it's not like a, it's not like a blatant S It's like, you
know, you can kind of see how itwould be, but as in it's like
it's distinct enough to be its own symbol.
And I like that. Like, OK, cool.
Like 'cause he's an alien. And I like that even like when
he listens, listens to like his biological parents, like the
speech that they give him. Kryptonian.
Yeah, it's in Kryptonian. It's like these little things.

(43:18):
It's like, you know what great attention to detail like the
chunks, like the the the Kryptonian language, the the S
on his logo. Like that was fucking top notch.
It was yeah. You know, I'm glad that you said
your your biggest issue with this movie is the plot, because

(43:40):
I think watching it the second time was extremely helpful for a
number of reasons. But I think the biggest reason
the movie feels like too much, in spite of all the characters,
in spite of all the crazy comic book concepts, is because we get
this sort of opening text that tells us that Superman stopped a

(44:05):
war between two fictional countries, which are countries
in the DC Comics. But I think the problem is we
don't see that intervention. Like throughout the movie, we're
we're told how important it is that he made the decision to
intervene unilaterally. It's like a foreign affair.

(44:28):
Yes, but we never see it right. And I think that might actually
be the biggest reason the movie feels so overwhelming.
It's it's because we're trying to, like, catch up
intellectually and emotionally to this conflict that we never
really saw. Like we're just constantly told

(44:51):
how important it is. We're we're obviously get pretty
obvious hints that Lex is pulling strings to make this
conflict happen, right? But we're never actually we we
don't get to see that that sort of conception of the conflict.

(45:13):
And considering that's kind of like the the what should be the
inciting incident of this movie,I think that's actually its
biggest mistake. It's not that we don't see
Superman coming to Earth as a baby.
It's not the lack of origin story or that he announces
himself as Superman and saves a a falling helicopter.

(45:37):
It's that the entire plot hingesaround the morality of Superman
intervening in A Foreign Affair,but we never see the initial
intervention. Right.
No, Yeah, I agree with you therebecause it the film tries to
make you like, care about a conflict.

(45:59):
That they and I just don't give a shit at all.
Yeah, but it's like like that conflict.
It's like, let's just get back to Lex.
Yep, but like that conflict, it's such like it's a big part
of the movie, but it it makes ithard for you to care about.
You know what's what's going on over there when it's just like
it's just introduced as like a wasp, like a a wall of text.

(46:19):
And the part kind of got me brought made me feel like some
type of emotion was towards the end of the film where it was
Berivia was the other something was a Jay Jardine or something
like that. I'm.
Just kind of. They are countries in DC comic
books. That's the point.

(46:40):
Right. And like towards like the end of
the film where like, you know, Borivia is going to invade the
country. You see like, you know, they're
filming it, it's live on TV. And you see you see these kids
like lifting up like this pole with like the Superman logo.
And like this is going on. Like if you have been, if you
have already seen the film chat like this is going on as like
the whole world is like believing like the fake news

(47:01):
about Superman that he's here. It's like, you know, invade us
all or whatever. And.
It's just acquired. There are many wives.
Yep, and part of a secret harem or whatever bullshit.
And then here you are seeing like a country where like
probably didn't have access to TV.
Or if they do, like they're not caught up in the world because,
you know, they're busy fighting for survival.
And here they are like, you know, lifting like, like their

(47:21):
symbol of hope. Like them like that moment like
that that touched me. I'm like, they should have had
that in the beginning of the film or at least like try to
make me care more about like their conflict.
I agree that that scene works, but it's because it illustrates
Superman's character like it illustrates what he represents

(47:42):
to people. I don't think it actually did
anything, not for me, in terms of the conflict.
To me, that just showed this is the Superman that we have been
waiting for right to where people are are trying to summon
him right to to save them because they're in trouble.
That to me was was more of a character moment as opposed to

(48:05):
relating to this this conflict. Because you're right, they
really try to drive it home thatthis is important, but they
don't do anything to make the audience care about it.
Because honestly, every time it it came up, I did find myself
just wanting to go back to either Superman or Lex.

(48:26):
Like I just, I wanted to spend time with the characters.
Because you're right, the best thing about this movie, apart
from the tone is the characters,Superman, Lex and Lois, those
like your main trio here in thismovie, all three of them are
basically perfect. And I think they elevate the

(48:47):
movie beyond the the issues thatthe plot has.
Yeah, not exactly because like from all the even like the small
minor ones like our boys Jimmy Olsen, like God damn Jimmy like
for such a minor character like.You.
Remember him? Yeah, like.
He, he, he, he. Stands out just and from just

(49:10):
like the the smart interactions that he has like that's and come
on. Even though his screen time is
really limited, I think Perry makes an impression too, because
I mean, we're talking about Bunkfrom the Wire guys.
You know, he just has that swagger, that screen presence.
Robert Zane from Suits or even the the reporter that harasses

(49:32):
Clark very early on in the film.The the guy that harps on about
the sports article, right? The sports writer, you remember
him because he's just kind of a Dick.
Right. The I mean, like it does, like
you said, it feels like a lived in inhabited world.
And I think, you know, the the more I sit with it and the more

(49:56):
I think about it, the more I kind of think if I were Marvel,
I would feel like I'm in troubleright now.
Like despite the fact that I'm not over here saying it's
perfect, right. I think when you kind of really
look at what it does well, I I wouldn't be sitting pretty if I

(50:17):
was fighting. Right, no, this movie I think it
does a lot of things well and like I think it's kind of a hard
like it is because I think JamesGunn like I think he had like
like people were expecting a lotlike the the bar for like James
Gunn like for this movie was already ridiculously.
High People expected this movie to be born from the kiss of the

(50:40):
muses. Yeah, some people like.
Dare I say I thought the movie was gonna be generational?
I don't know who would have thought that, but stay away from
my blue sky. So my point is that I think
there was a lot of riding on this movie and maybe like that
might be kind of unfair to like this movie because there was a

(51:03):
lot of hype built in. You bought into the hype of this
movie. Like there was a lot of riding
on this movie. And I do think like this movie
delivers, but it doesn't deliverlike what people were expecting
it to. Like you were expecting some
like ground shattering, like, yeah, role defining cultural
phenomenon or pop phenomenon, whatever.
Yeah, which it might be somewhatof a pop phenomenon, but it's

(51:26):
not like the bad phenomenon thatyou wanted.
I told you about this before we started recording, but my sister
and her fiance just watched Superman.
And if anybody is going to be sort of put off by these wacky
comic book concepts, it's going to be my sister.

(51:48):
And she had no issue with it. She liked the movie.
She didn't, you know, like she wasn't in love with it, right?
But like you said, she's probably, I know she's seen a
few MCU films. I bet she's never read a comic
book. Especially no, especially the
early ones, like when we would, you know, kind of go as a
family. Like, I know for sure she

(52:08):
watched The Incredible Hulk withme, Probably Iron Man, but she
liked it. And I asked her like, did you
find all of this stuff weird? Like, and I described the scene
that I did earlier where I said that was actually where I
thought this movie might be in alittle bit of trouble, where the

(52:28):
Hammer of Boravia flies to the encampment just to go through
this convoluted pocket universe just to go back to Luther Corps,
right? I asked her, did you like, did
you find that weird? Did that bother you?
Was that too much? Like, you know, was it just like
stretching, you know, your suspension and disbelief too
much, right? And she said, no, it to me, it's

(52:50):
just a movie. I thought it was normal, right?
And so I could just be straight up fucking wrong.
Like this could be fine and it could work for general
audiences. And I'm I'm, I just sound like a
hater, right? This this this episode is
brought to you by Lex Luthor. Yes, well, I think like this

(53:14):
movie establishes itself like it's a zany world and like it it
feels like it's a lived in worldand the characters inside are
used to the zaniness like the fucking president of Borivia
goes has his own has its own door to go to like Lexus pocky
universe and he's like. They want to be.
Evil together. Yeah.

(53:35):
And he's just unfazed by it. Like like I can understand like
Lex, like not being fazed by it because like he's a fucking
super genius. Nothing fazes him at all.
Fucking like he's like, yo, whenpeople mention Galileo, like
Newton, Einstein, Einstein in the same breath as me, it pisses
me off. I was like.
Yo, that was that was hard. Yeah, I know.

(53:56):
Like the ego of this man. I fucking love it.
I will say when we talk about the comic bookiness of this
movie, some of it does I think just really work like like Lex
being this like unbelievable tech genius.
I think that that that was awesome cartoonishly.

(54:18):
Evil. But he's, like, also
cartoonishly smart. Yeah, like I don't think we've
ever seen someone that smart in the MCU.
Like people joke like, oh, everyone's a genius and makes
their own stuff like Tony Stark this and that.
Okay, but is Tony Stark so smartthat Superman has been around

(54:40):
for three years and Lex has basically designed villains for
Superman to the point where theyare just playing video games up
in his office? A 1F4 this DD12, like they're
countering all his moves. Like, you know, it's like you
said, it's those little things that show how fucking smart this

(55:01):
guy is. Like, yeah, this man is a a
fucking genius. And we've never seen like that
kind of comic book intelligence before, right?
And I like that. No, I'm not going to lie.
I I. I did too.
Like it was kind of like it was cathartic to see like, like

(55:21):
someone like with no powers, just like their intellect be
able to, you know, like basically bring Superman to his
knees, like honest no power. Like kind of kicked his ass.
He did majority of the movie he.Did he's like fuck like yes,
like show us like, you know someone be a superhero, but you

(55:44):
know without like superpowers yeah, it's just all his
intellect, his his scheming likeeverything he did was all
plotting to take down a Supermanyeah and it was it was fucking
genius from like from cuz like and he he has an answer to
everything like how did he get to the the fortune of the
solitude? Oh, cuz he had Superman's doing

(56:04):
DNA cuz I. Cloned the bitch.
Yeah. How did you clone the bitch?
Like, where'd you get the DNA? Oh, I just combed all your back.
Yeah, it's like, yeah. It's like he plays like, no,
like I didn't just like, you know, just put it on my ass.
Like, yeah, like there's a method to his madness.
Yes, yes. Like my only, my only, only
gripe against like Lex is that it seems like he's just evil for

(56:27):
no reason. And usually in the comics, he's
portrayed like he's evil, but like, there's usually like a
reason for it, like you're goingto push.
Back. Yeah, I'm going to let you
finish. Though I was going to say, OK,
let me finish real quick. But like usually in the comics,
like yes, Lex is a bad guy, but he's sometimes portrayed like he
also cares about like Metropolis, like he cares about

(56:49):
the city and he he he goes, he wants to save it, but in his own
way. And he just like he doesn't
trust Superman to to be that person to do it, which they kind
of like allude to in the movie that like Lex just doesn't like
meta humans, Like he doesn't like them having too much power.
But it it just seemed like he was kind of like evil just to be
evil. And I kind of wish there was

(57:10):
kind of like a just a little bitof nuance.
So I don't disagree with the premise of that argument at all
because coming out of the theater the first time, I, I was
fully on board with you because I think you mentioned that the
first time we watched it. And I said, yeah, yeah,
absolutely. I agree.
I do think Lex was kind of a little 2 dimensional there, but

(57:35):
a big inspiration for this moviewas All Star Superman.
And in that comic book, Lex is primarily driven by xenophobia,
which you kind of just said in the sense that he doesn't like
metahumans. But we don't get enough of that

(57:55):
xenophobia from Lex in in in this film, not not.
Yet when he breaks into like thefortune of the song, yeah, I
hate metahumans, but especially Superman.
And he calls him an it. Yeah, he like, yeah, man, he's
an it. I was like, you know what?
Yeah, Lex, like you brothers. Like it's it's it's very hard
for me to hate Lex. I love like, just the way he's

(58:16):
portrayed, his charisma, his evilness.
I loved it. I just wish there was like just
a little bit of nuance. I think what they needed to
bring, what's missing from the All Star Superman comic is in
that movie, Lex is incredibly jacked and he gives like this
whole monologue about how he wasn't gifted with genetics or
his biochemistry. He's a human being and he had to

(58:39):
work for his strength, for his physique, for his health.
So in the comic, Lex believes that humans are superior to meta
humans because they have to workto be exceptional, right?
So Lex, like he has this superiority complex.
And I think that, you know, havethey had they included that in

(59:01):
the movie? I think that that that might
have like tipped it over over tipped the scale for you.
Right. No like I think if they did that
like Lex Luthor would have went from like a 9.9 to a 10.
Yeah, because like Lex, he does he, he believes so much in like
the human capability to strive that he believes that quality

(59:24):
alone is what separates them from meta humans who are just
gifted with these abilities. And that's like a a huge driver
for where the xenophobia stems from.
And I think if they had just included that, that it probably
would have would have been enough for people to to like put

(59:44):
Lex in in the conversation of like these all time comic book
great villains. Because honestly, even as he is,
I, I I kind of think you have tothrow him up there.
Yeah. I.
Mean, I mean I, I, I can see that argument like, I think
ultimately like there's. Not many MCU villains that I
would take over Lex Luthor honestly.

(01:00:07):
I this is my hot take, but I think let's look they're giving
up giving just like less than three years like you did with
Superman. He can kick anybody's ass in the
MCU. Anybody.
No, I agree. What?
More like snore, but. What I'm saying is like
everybody harps on about the MCUvillain problem.

(01:00:28):
I don't even think you take someof the best MCU villains like
save Thanos. I don't know how.
Almost doesn't compare to Lex. Luthor.
I don't know how many of them compare to Lex Luthor.
Yeah, like, that's how good I think Lex was.
And obviously a huge part of that is Nicholas Holt.
Like, this man, this this motherfucker doesn't miss.

(01:00:52):
Yeah, like have you seen the menu?
You know what? No, but I have it.
It's on my watch. Dude, the menu juror number.
Two, I think juror #2. Mad Max Fury Rd.
Like this man, he's just, he always shows up.
Yeah, yeah, solid, like solid actors, solid performance and I
I, I hope that he's like, I hopethey bring back this like cuz

(01:01:15):
like obviously at the end of themovie he goes to jail, but it's
like. Oh, it's not.
Come on. Yeah.
How long do Vince stay in jail? Like they're gonna, he's gonna
get out. There's, I think there is so
much fucking potential for this Lex Luthor.
Like you said, there's so many things that they can do with
this universe. And I think one of the most
exciting possibilities is President Lex, because there is

(01:01:37):
a comic book arc where Lex becomes president.
And obviously that gives him a ton of power, right?
And he just runs through all these machinations to, you know,
really try and defeat Superman while also trying to appear
diplomatic right, as the president.
And run the country. Yeah.
And it's just, I think it's one of the, I think it's one of the

(01:01:57):
best, one of my favorite DC comic runs probably ever,
honestly. I think it's some really
fascinating stuff, right? Because there's also like a team
up with Batman in that comic run.
So yeah, I think there's so muchpotential there.

(01:02:19):
And then I mean, I just, oh, my goodness.
You know, Rachel Brosnahan as, as Lois Lane, I think she's
perfect. She actually had a role in the
story. Unlike Amy Adams, who just runs
around saying I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist.
Lois actually had a role in the story.
And I think she she had just theright amount of pluck to

(01:02:43):
challenge Clark on the intervention that we never get
to see. But but she had just the right
amount of, yeah, like pluck to challenge him on it.
But she wasn't like overbearing,like I know better than you.
Like she wasn't a girl boss. She was a fucking journalist.
Yeah, exactly. She felt like a journalist, like

(01:03:04):
asking, like literally asking the hard the the hard hitting
questions. Yes.
And like, it caught Superman offguard.
Like. And shit was nuanced about him
too, because like, you know, when, you know, Superman had
asked something about the government being
well-intentioned, she said, well, no, but that's not the

(01:03:27):
point. Like, that's not the point of
the question that I had just asked you.
I can't remember exactly what itwas, but like Lois.
Like do you know, like the government's cover up, you know,
that it's like, yeah, I might think that, but I don't know.
Exactly like it's like. Fuck, that's smart.
Like, even though she, you know,is, is, is willing to like,
challenge Clark on what he did, she's also not naive enough to

(01:03:50):
say this is some black and whiteconflict because it obviously at
this point, we don't know about Lex's involvement.
But I think, yeah, Lewis has a lot of depth.
And like you said, she's a journalist.
She's actually a critical thinker, you know, and I like
that. I like that they, you know, they
gave her layers is a character that they gave her something to

(01:04:14):
do in the story. And you you mentioned this
briefly in episode 18, but you can make the argument that Lois,
Jimmy and Jimmy's side piece, well, Alexis's girlfriend,
they're arguably the ones to take him down.
I mean like while there's genuine argument to be had.

(01:04:35):
Yeah, and like they're all human.
But like, it's it's Lois is likejournalistic integrity.
Like her journalism is like whatkind of like ends up saving the
day. Yeah.
And the same way that I mentioned earlier that, you
know, how like it was, it was great to see like our boy David,
like, you know, capture both Clark Kent and Superman.
It was great to see like, you know, like Lois Lane, like you

(01:04:56):
said, like she was like, she haddepth and like, you know, we saw
her like, you know how Lois is like, you know, when she's like
the boss, like, you know, out working shit, like tell people
what to do and whatever. And then how she is like, you
know, as the girlfriend to ClarkKent and Superman.
But when she's like, you know, when Clark's like, hey, I'll do
an interview with you, Like she turns that journalism on.
Like she's like, yeah, like, yeah, like I'll do it like, all

(01:05:18):
right. And boom, it's like they both
flip a switch. Like Clark, Clark goes to.
Clark gives the Superman voice. Yeah, He's like, like Superman,
Mrs. Lane, like, yeah, that wasn't deep enough.
He was like, yeah, Mrs. Lane. Like, that was like, oh, shit.
And I remember they showed that in the trailer.
And I was like, you know what? Like, that did have me excited.
Like, you know, just seeing like, just that subtle switch

(01:05:40):
that David went from like, you know, meek and mild Clark Kent
to like Miss Lane. Yeah.
Like I thought, like, you know, that was great.
That was great. Yeah, that was fucking great.
And I also loved that, you know,Lois also turned it on cuz like
she was like legitimately challenging him to the point
where like Superman like. He was uncomfortable.
Yeah, he was uncomfortable. And like he did what he does

(01:06:00):
like as Clark Kent, like he whenhe doesn't want to like do a
shit, like he just walked away from the conflict and that's
what he did. And like that and like that this
universe like it felt lived in because like, you know, this
felt like this feels like how many times do you just like
argue with your girl that you didn't you didn't mean for like
the conversation, the conversation to turn into like a
fight or an argument, But then it does and it's like it's just

(01:06:23):
awkward. And like, that's what happened
after that. Like, Superman, like, he leaves
and like, Lois is like, this fuck really left.
Like, like, like she, she she mutters under her breath, like,
after that interview, like, yeah, I knew this.
I knew this wasn't gonna work out.
Yeah. And Clark asked her, like, what
did you mean by that? And she, like, she's like, yeah,

(01:06:44):
you know how I, like, I'm not good with people or blah, blah,
blah. And Clark's like, OK.
And he walks. Yeah.
Like, just like, swing the camera, like, just shows Clark
leaving and swing the camera back to Lois.
Like, she's washing dishes. She stops washing dishes and
she's like, she she like turns around and she's like, like in
her like in in her head, she's probably like this motherfucker

(01:07:05):
really did just like walk on that.
Like, like, I think she was trying to set up like, you know,
like to, to talk about the like the fight, like, you know, like,
all right, like let's actually like talk about it.
And Clark, you know, like he didn't, he missed the cue or
whatever. Like he just walks out.
And I didn't catch this the first time.
It was the second time around where like, you know, after the

(01:07:26):
fake news comes out with Superman and like, you know, he
can't find the dog and he comes back to his apartment while
like, you know, that epic fight scene is going on in the
background. Like OK, out that that that was
like one of the scenes where I was like, yes, I love the James
Gunn humor. The James Gunn humor works right
here. But like, you know, as that's
going down and there's like a big battle going on in the

(01:07:47):
background with, like, you know,the Justice gang is trying to
take care of Superman's just moping and depressed in his
apartment. And later on in the film, like
Lois, like Lois shows up there and like, you know, comforts him
and blah, blah, blah, blah. But later in the film, like she
says like when she's talking to fuck, fuck Mr. Terrific, she's

(01:08:08):
like, yeah, like I was gonna break up with him.
But then he said I love you. And it was and the first time I
didn't catch that. The second time I was like, oh
shit. Like he he said, I love you.
You know, during like that, in that scene where like that that
monster is fight is going on in the background, he's moping and
depressed. Lois, like, you know, comes to
comfort him, gives him chocolate.
She she came to his apartment fully intent to break up with

(01:08:31):
him, but she doesn't. And then Clark drops, drops the
L bomb and then, you know, he, he goes out because he's like,
I'm going to turn myself in. Lois is like, why would you do
that? Well, you know, it'll get me
closer. Like it'll help me find the dog.
Like Lois is like, it's just a dog.
And Dylan was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Dylan got upset right there. But point being like she was

(01:08:54):
going to break up with them, butshe didn't.
And it's like, like the human emotions of like seeing her
like, you know, like, like that guilt that she's dealing with as
she's like, you know, telling the story to miss it terrific
and miss it terrific turns around.
Like, bitch, what what the fuck are you talking about?
Like it's like, it's fucking great.
Like these characters actually feel like characters.

(01:09:16):
They don't feel like caricatures.
Like, as like a lot of a lot of MCU characters feel like
caricatures in the in this, you know, Lois Lane feels like a
real character. Clark can't they feel like real
characters. And you know, characterization
was the strongest suit of this movie, hands down, in my
opinion. Yeah, I agree with you.

(01:09:38):
I think that there's an interesting sort of discussion
about the movie taking place because a lot of people are
asking, oh, what is Clark's character arc like?
What is he really learn or how does he change throughout the

(01:09:59):
movie? And I think there's something
really, really interesting goingon here.
I think the surface level sort of take away from Superman is
that this is this is Clark growing up as Superman because
like you just said, he's a little immature.

(01:10:19):
He, despite being Superman as Clark, he avoids conflict and he
just kind of takes the easy way out sometimes.
And I think in in a, you know, sort of roundabout way, this is
a, a sort of coming of age storyfor Clark.
But as Superman, he has to learn, you know what it what it

(01:10:44):
means to be Superman while beinghuman.
Right. And I think that's that's kind
of the the story that's being told here.
But then there's something that I caught the second time we
watched this movie, and it was when Superman is taken to his

(01:11:09):
parents, well, his ma and PA Kent's farm in Smallville.
And he has that discussion with his dad.
And his dad tells him that parents don't exist to tell
their kids who to be. Parents exist to give their

(01:11:29):
their kids the tools to figure out who they they want to be.
And that it's their choices thatthey make every day that define
them, not their upbringing. The really this kind of nature
versus nurture thing, right? But what I found so unbelievably
interesting is can you think of another superhero movie in the

(01:11:55):
past few years that involves an emotionally stunted young man
who puts on a Cape and cowl to fight crime, who idealized his
father, believing that he was the picture of morality and
generosity in a corrupt city, only to learn that his father

(01:12:17):
possibly had somebody murdered? And what, Batman.
Yes. But what I'm saying, Yeah.
Do you not find it odd that bothof these movies have their
protagonist struggle with their sort of like perfect idealized
versions of their biological parents being deconstructed and

(01:12:42):
destroyed right before their eyes and realizing that they
have to change rather than trying to base their entire
objective on their parents legacy?
Right now that I that's interesting.
I don't know if like because I don't know how much like did

(01:13:04):
James Gunn take inspiration fromthat or is it just like it's a
comment of theme where like theyjust happened to be present in
both movies? I'm not saying James Gunn took
inspiration from The Batman, I just, I found it really hard to
ignore that right the second time because I think I was just
paying attention more. Right.

(01:13:24):
And I, I just thought that was really interesting.
Yeah. No, I can see that.
I think no, that, that, that it,that fuck that, that that's not,
that's an interesting, like highlight.
Yeah. I think that might just speak
more like the like the themes ofparenthood and like just fair.

(01:13:46):
Enough. Because like both like Superman
and Clark can like they both lost their parents.
And I think this is even indicated in like, you know, the
Batman versus Superman, Martha. What do you know that name so.
It's like they're both like, youknow, these are both individuals
that like, well, one could say that, you know, 1 is more
traumatized, like, you know, by like the loss of their parents

(01:14:08):
than the other ones. Whereas like, you know, Batman
or like Bruce Wayne essentially grew up an orphan, at least like
Clark Kent, like he had like, you know, he has like the parent
like 2 two sets of parents, you know, one that named him Khalil
and the other one that named himClark Kent.
So it's like both for both thesesuperheroes in particular, like,
you know, their parents role does play an effect in like, you

(01:14:29):
know, just who they are as like individuals.
So maybe like, yeah, it just happens to be like, yeah, like,
you know, the Batman and Superman like they both, you
know, they both deal with those type like similar issues, except
like, you know, where I was likethe Batman is one that's a more
bleak Superman has a more optimistic.

(01:14:52):
No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah.
But you know that that that's a great point.
But I did like I, I'm personally, I'm just a sucker
whenever there's like a like a dad and son like moment in
movies or whatever, like I am a bitch for those movies.
Like I'll see that show. I'm like, man, I'm going to go.
I'm going to go give my dad a hug right now.

(01:15:13):
Again, I'm not saying that gun intentionally pulled from The
Batman, I just thought it was aninteresting thematic parallel.
Yeah, no, no, it is. And I'm glad you you pointed
that out because yeah, I didn't realize, I didn't notice like.
That you know, like, you know, hopefully these things stay
separate, but I do think it's even if it wasn't intentional, I
think it's nice that gun, you know, is acknowledging Matt

(01:15:36):
Reeves work. Right.
So that's what I'll say. But yeah, I, I the scene between
Pennsylvania, Ken and Clark was obviously beautiful.
I think that's like probably thethe best like 10 to 15 minutes
in the in the movie. I don't even think it was that
long, I think it was like 5 minutes like.
When I well, I guess I'm talkingabout like the short winds.

(01:15:58):
OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Like the the whole for.
Arriving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's probably yeah. To me, that's probably the most
memorable part of the movie. But Josh, I, I'm sorry I have to
bring this up. I hate, hate what they did to Ma
and PA Kent. I understand that Clark is

(01:16:21):
supposed to be raised by the thesort of like every man people,
blue collar Kansas farmers. But in this movie James Gunn
makes Ma and PA Kent these straight up like salt of the
earth country bumpkin. Hey Clark, like it is just nuts.

(01:16:47):
And it was a little too much forme right Both times I really
couldn't get on board with it. I mean, these people are just
straight up like out the backwoods, man.
It's just, you know, like James Gunn's like really leaning into
that, that that cartoony backwards.
Yeah, no, I, I, I can understandthat.

(01:17:07):
Like, I was, I was a bit like taken aback just how how, how,
how thick her accent was when she, when she called Clark on
the phone and she's like, hey, Clark.
Like I was like, God damn, that is a thick, thick soda.
An accent like wow, and then youhear like Pawtog and like he
sounds normal. It's like the mom that's like

(01:17:30):
sounds like the most backwater country, but you know.
It is, and the reason I don't like it is because it kind of
gives the impression that they're a little dumb.
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
And Ma and PA can't. They might not be super powered
aliens, but they are the 1 to instill the true virtues that

(01:17:51):
Clark lives by. Yeah, you know what I mean?
And I guess I just, I guess it kind of rubbed me the wrong way
because I felt like, well, you didn't have to make her seem
like an idiot. Right now that's fair because
yeah, she, I mean, I actually, she could have been smart, but

(01:18:12):
just the way she was portrayed was like, you know, she's not
the sharpest tool in the tool shit, but.
Yeah, and like limited screen time.
Limited screen time and like, you know, judging by the screen
time, like I don't think she didor did anything that would like
show that she's like a dumb character.
It's literally just the accent. And I will say it was really
cute when she said I cleaned your boots.

(01:18:32):
Yeah. Like, you know, such a mom thing
to do. Especially like given how Clark
was raised on the farm. And she's like so supportive
too, like not being like no son,don't go, you can get hurt.
She's like, no, I can get boots for you.
Like go son. Like, it's like they instilled
the values in them and like, they, it's like, I mean, I think
they're still great parents because they instill those

(01:18:55):
values that we're talking about.And at the same time, they give
them that freedom to, hey, I canget your boots for you.
Because she knows that once he's.
That's his responsibility. Yeah.
That's what he's gonna choose todo.
He's gonna choose to preserve and save life, which that was I
think when one of like the highlights of the films, like
when when Superman fights, and Imentioned this on episode 18,

(01:19:18):
like he doesn't just fight like to win.
He fights to protect like all life.
And then whether it's like a dogor a human or a fucking
squirrel, like this man will just protect like just the
sanctity, the sanctity of life because that's how much he
values like just life. And I, I really loved seeing

(01:19:38):
that, like seeing that just shown on screen as opposed to,
you know, seeing a courtroom while a bomb goes off and you
just nonchalantly just turn to your left and turn to your right
and let it all happen. OK, Obviously we have to talk
about this. Talk about what?

(01:19:59):
There is so much I think in thismovie that is a direct response
to Man of Steel. Interesting.
Because obviously the the third act of Man of Steel is
absolutely ridiculous. It's balls to the wall
destruction. It's like 29 elevens in one.

(01:20:20):
I mean, it's just absolutely ridiculous.
Clark has no regard for human life, for the property damage.
And then of course all the little Snyder cultists come out
of the woodwork. He was trying to stay the earth.
What was he supposed to do? It was his first time fighting.
Shut the fuck up. In this movie, when Superman

(01:20:43):
fights the Kaiju and he's going to fall back against a building
which the Kaiju clearly would have destroyed given its size,
Superman makes a conscious effort to go fly behind him and
hold them back to prevent that building from collapsing.
And you can see, like all the people like backing up because

(01:21:04):
they're terrified, right, that they're about to go down.
And you know, we even get like the great scene where the glass
starts to. Crack from his back, Yeah.
But yeah, it doesn't. Break starts to push back just
enough. To save him.
Yup, and I'm like that. That is a great scene.
Or that is who Superman is the scene.
Perfect in the climax when the the woman is trying to drive

(01:21:28):
away but her car won't start andthen the the buildings does laps
which obviously is like. Such a domino effect of.
Building. Yeah, It's more reminiscent of
Man of Steel imagery. And then you get Superman stop
the building from collapsing just so she can escape.

(01:21:49):
Like just so she can escape. I got a hold of just long enough
for her to get out of here and then you get that, you know, the
wonderful shot with the smoke billowing up and Superman is.
Flying. Closing yeah, in the middle of
it and. And this is still going on
during like the fake news like like so like Lois hasn't
published like the article, likelike Metropolis dope things that

(01:22:11):
like, you know, Superman is likebuilding a secret harem and all
this other. Shit.
And you can tell by the way she looks at him, like, like she's
surprised. Yeah.
And. Then she's grateful.
It's like she's surprised at that little.
Gratitude, facial expressions, the little interactions.
I mentioned this in episode 18. Like, I love when he saves the
woman, takes her to the top of the building and says, slow,

(01:22:32):
deep breaths. You're going to be fine.
You know? Like, I don't understand how
like, there can be so much pushback.
You know, if you like Snyder's DC movies, great.
Like, I'm glad they worked for you, right?
But like, I don't know how you can watch this movie and say
that's not Superman. Like, yeah, no, like that's.

(01:22:52):
Insane to me. Yeah, like what do you want him
to do? Like you just want him to cause
the wanton destruction and like fight people just like brawl it
out for the hell of it. I I don't get it.
Yeah, it's exactly and I feel funny bringing this up, but I'm

(01:23:12):
going to because you're you you mentioned Zack Snyder or like
the just Man of Steel, like as you mentioned, fucking Superman
struggles fighting journal Zod and it takes him like, you know,
snapping his neck and killing fight the first time that gets
him like, you know that where he's finally able to stop Zod.
I recently rewatched the flash like a few weeks ago, but I just

(01:23:35):
I something just triggered this memory.
Now where like so have you seen the flash?
Yeah, like it's basically like, you know, like, like not a
reboot, but it's like they pull a lot from, like, there's the
like Man of Steel. They try to recontextualize.
Yeah, like they try to kind of reconnect it a bit.
Yeah, because like it's a different unit.
Well, it's not really a retcon because the flash they try to.

(01:23:56):
Make it seem more important thanit.
Was yeah, but like, when like they're fighting out or
whatever, like we see Batman fully capable of like, you know,
going toe to toe with fucking General Zod.
And this, this is not the Ben Affleck Batman.
This is an older fucking was it George Clooney or was the who's
the Michael Keaton? It was Michael Keaton.
It was an older Michael Keaton Batman, you know, trading blows,

(01:24:19):
the General Zod dodging him and like doing all this other shit.
And I'm like, yo, that's a fucking human.
And he's able to do this with General Azad, but yet Superman
had to snap his neck just to stop him.
Like come on DCU, what are we doing?
Like you're not being consistentin this.
That's because Batman is a 200 IQ mastered 127 martial arts

(01:24:42):
genius. Even the DCU.
OK, I'm talking about Michael Keaton's Batman.
Oh shit, OK, all right. I was there.
What even the even the bat flick?
As a Batman fan, I like that scene, but you're making a
really good point. Yeah.
Like, like if if a person in a bat costume human being like

(01:25:04):
you, like, you meant like he knows like, how remaining like,
you know, martial arts or whatever.
And like, yeah, he used the grapple hook in the.
Yeah, but like, he's fighting a Kryptonian.
I'm like, fuck Michael Keaton. This has nothing to do with what
he said. Second best Batman behind Robert

(01:25:25):
Pattinson. Damn you know what I had not
watched Like I have not rewatched like the older band
movies to like offer an opinion on this.
See, I the reason I was kind of soft on The Flash is because I
actually really liked what they did with Michael Keaton's
Batman. Like the this man was so
effective that he actually eradicated crime in Gotham City.

(01:25:47):
Yeah, And like, that lines up perfectly with the Batman that
we saw in the Tim Burton Batman movie.
So I was like, makes sense. And like he was just so lost
without being Batman. Right.
And like he, you know, he joinedBarry just for like, the thrill
of suiting up again. And I was like, I kind of like

(01:26:08):
this. Like, I'm not saying the movie's
great, but like the Batman stuff.
I was like, I kind of like. It right How take?
I don't think the Flash is like that bad of a movie.
Not I don't think so. Not like like, I'm not defending
Ersa Miller or anything like that at all, just like before.

(01:26:32):
It's kind of a psycho. Yeah, like like chat before,
before you like, you know, like bring out your torches and shit.
Like, just like I'm saying, I'm not defending Ersa Miller
whatsoever. And in fact, I, I did not even
watch The Flash in theaters. I went out of my way to pirate
it. OK?
Allegedly, FBI allegedly. I allegedly, you know, found a

(01:26:54):
pirate that he, he let me watch The Flash at his house.
Yeah, but point being, like, it's not.
I don't think it's that bad of amovie.
I don't think it's that bad. Either, honestly, but whatever,
yeah. That's my heart shake.
But anyways, back to Superman. One thing I really, really like
about Superman, and it's kind oftowards like the end, like the
climax where he he confronts Lexand then he says like, yeah,

(01:27:18):
that's where you're wrong. Like I am just as much human as
you are. And then he like lists off like
these reasons and shit. And it's like, fuck.
Like, yeah, I mean, yes, fuckingSuperman is like overpowered as
fuck. So it's like not exactly human
per SE, but just like the arguments he was making.
Like I love, I'm afraid like just like I, I don't know what

(01:27:39):
I'm doing. Like some days like I wake up, I
get upset. Like days, there are days where
I don't know what I'm going to do, but I just like everybody
else, I put my foot forward and just like, you know, keep on
pushing. And it's like, I thought it like
that little like monologue, likeit was it resonated with me.
I'm like, damn, like that fuck, like that was good.
And what does legs do? Oh Boo motherfucker.

(01:28:03):
Like so fucking condescending and patronizing.
I love it. Legs don't change, even if I do
want you to be a little bit morenuanced, but don't change.
That was fucking like, I do lovethat because it's like, yes, as
alien, as superhuman that Superman is, he is fundamentally

(01:28:24):
human to his core. Like his emotions, like just he,
he loves, he cries, like all this is like inherently human.
And I just thought like that. I I just, I just thought like
that his. Greatest superpower is his
empathy. Yes, which is like, you know,
usually like like portrayed as like a human element or
whatever. So I just thought like that was

(01:28:45):
really like powerful because like the whole movie, like they
talk about him like he's an alien, he's an alien, he's an
alien, he's metahuman, blah blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it's like, yes, he's metahuman, but at the core of it
all, Superman Clark Kent is a. Human.
Being like, he has a human heart.
Like, yeah. And I I just really.

(01:29:06):
Loved that. I agree.
And you know, I think like I said it, it fits in with the
kind of Arc that Superman undergoes in this movie, which
is like, he has to grow up and and sort of like come of age in
the sense that he has to he has to reconcile how to act as

(01:29:35):
Superman, all while balancing these very human experiences.
Because I think that's what makes it difficult for him.
I see a lot of people that said oh Superman just gets his ass
kicked the whole time in this movie.
Because he's holding back. He doesn't want to hurt.
He's holding back, but also because he cares like, you know,

(01:29:57):
when when that guy does get shotby Lex, you know, he like wails
in in in agony, like he's so upset.
And that's because he's he's a fucking person.
Like, you know, and that's that's just part of Clark's
character arcs. So I don't I don't see why that
monologue bothered people. I think a lot of the criticisms

(01:30:21):
of the movie coming from the more, let's just say opposition
side are are really non criticisms.
And even like, you know, some ofthe criticisms I have about like
the comic booky stuff. I've talked to some people
online and they're like, what doyou mean by comic booky?
And and I kind of say the thingsthat I I've already stated, like

(01:30:44):
we're talking pocket universes, cloning and anti proton rivers
and this and that all in the first movie.
And they someone told me like, well, that's just that's a very
general answer. And I'm just like, all right,
come on, let's stop being obtuselike this is.
Yeah. It's not a critique to call this

(01:31:05):
movie like comic bookie. Like look at the fucking source.
It's a fucking comic book. Like if if if James Gunn wants
to like make a super comic bookie and zany film.
That's just right. Yeah, and he's gonna lean into
it like. And he did.
And yes, like while you might feel like kind of about it, I
think as movies go on and like you rewatch this movie again

(01:31:27):
after a few more DCU products have come out, like I think
you'll appreciate appreciate thezaniness of it all.
Bro, I just read a comic. It was a Batman comic.
But in this comic, fucking Batman goes to space and then,
you know, not in a spaceship, like he's fighting in his bat

(01:31:48):
suit and, you know, because he'sBatman, he's always prepared.
He's got a face mask so he can breathe in fucking space and
shit. And if he defeats the villain in
space and then he has to go backto Earth, and how does he go
back to Earth? He grabs on like, you know, like
the chunk of metal that like, you know, some debris from like
his fight and he like, you know,rocket, rocket, rocket used like

(01:32:11):
a little rocky and like, you know, slowly starts descending
from fucking space back to Earth, you know, going at insane
speeds that like any other person you would like you
fucking. We have meteors that, you know,
pass through our atmosphere and like they get burned up to a
crisp before they even touched like the surface of our planet.

(01:32:34):
But here we have Batman fucking just going through this shit.
Sometimes he passes out but wakes back up still holding on.
Like, you know, his mask starts falling apart.
So he rips his trunks and uses that as a mask.
And it's like, yo, like, and again, it's a comic book, but he
survives. He fucking lands in the fucking
snow and fucking Antarctica. And it's like, yo, like you have

(01:32:58):
to have like a certain level of suspension of disbelief when
you're reading like comic book stories and shit.
So like in that vein, this moviewas super comic bookie.
And I don't think, like, that's a critique to call it that.
So, yeah, guys, chat, don't be obtuse.
Come on. It's OK that this movie leaned
heavily into the zaniness of like, you know, what would

(01:33:21):
happen in a comic book. It's fine.
It doesn't. This doesn't have to be the
X-Men. All leather suits guys.
Yeah, one of my favorite Batman comics.
Batman RIP involves him being buried alive in a coffin in a
straitjacket on three days with no sleep.

(01:33:42):
He's been drugged and of course he finds a way, of course, to
break out of the coffin. Like, it's one of the most bad
ass Batman moments, but like, guys, come on.
Yeah. Like, you have to have, first of
all, it's a superhero movie. Your suspension of disbelief
should already be pretty fuckinghigh.
Like. Yeah.

(01:34:04):
And see, the more that that I talk about it, the more that we
talk about it and discuss the movie's positives, the more the
more I think, you know what, give me this over Iron Man as a
as a launch to a cinematic universe.
This is more ballsy. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm

(01:34:26):
not putting Iron Man down like Jon Favreau.
And you know, whoever wrote thatmovie, I don't know that movie,
right? Surprisingly, they put a lot of
work into that movie. You know, that was back when
Marvel cared about film making, right?
But like, this is ambitious to afault.

(01:34:47):
Maybe, like everything that I'vesaid, could either work for you
or it could not. But like, damn it, if James Gunn
didn't like, you know, come out swinging.
Yeah, no, he did. And I think like I said, like my
only critique is just is going to involve the plot.
And even then, like I'm not evenhating that hard on the plot.

(01:35:09):
Like I just think like they kindof did too much.
But I at the same time, I'm not saying that they should have
cussed it out or whatever. I just think that like they they
introduced too many concepts, like they didn't let it breathe
enough, but. I honestly believe the movie
gets fixed if we see Superman intervene in the in the initial

(01:35:30):
conflict, like when Borrevia wassupposedly first going to invade
Jharanpur. I honestly think that if we see
that, it changes everything. I see where you're coming from
because it would have added like10 more minutes is like the
running time and. It's not a long time, exactly.
The movie's very quick. Yeah.

(01:35:51):
Like it's paced very fast, whichthat's kind of an issue I had.
I think the movie moves way too fast but.
I told you it's like 4 episodes in one.
At the end, Lex reveals that he didn't even care about these two
peasant countries. There's nothing to him.
He just wanted an excuse to killSuperman.
Yeah, dude, I thought that was tough.

(01:36:13):
It was but, but see, that's whatI mean.
Like if you show from the beginning, you know, and you
don't have to tell us right away, but if you show Superman
intervene in that initial conflict and then, you know,
it's revealed Lex was doing all this just to get an excuse to
kill Superman, it makes the movie more explicitly about Lex

(01:36:36):
and Superman facing off. Like, I think the motivations
become more clear, right? It doesn't it doesn't give Lex
that extra dimension that I think we're looking for.
But I think everybody's motivations actually become more
clear. Like the even the the interview
with Clark and Lewis, as good asthat scene is, it has more punch
because we see like we would have been able to see what he

(01:36:58):
actually. Did right, You know what no, I
think you're right. I think if they had filmed that
and like just added that in the beginning of the movie, it just
an extra 1015 minutes, I think that that would have helped a
lot. Yeah.
Yeah, hashtag release the gun cut.
Yes, yeah, hashtag release the gun cut.

(01:37:19):
Here we go. The.
Campaign has officially started.Yes, or I mean if they if they
did like an extended version of that and they had that I've seen
Oh my God, this movie would go from like and dude, two were
like a nine. Imagine like in November they re
released the movie in theaters with that footage.
Bro I I honestly like I'd probably watch it more than

(01:37:44):
twice. Yo Superman is the only chat.
Superman is the only film this year that I've seen twice in
theaters. Like Sinners watched it once and
then I saw him VOD. Same with Mickey 17, Nova King
Thunderbolts, like and these aremovies that I enjoyed and I
loved and I talked about them onthe pod, but Superman is the

(01:38:05):
first movie this year that I literally watched like
back-to-back at the movie theater.
It was literally Friday and Saturday.
Because even though I think we all had issues with it, there
was something about it, yeah, that compelled us to say, I
think I need to give that one more go, yeah.
Like, and it's a fun movie. Yeah, I'm I'm genuinely glad

(01:38:27):
that I watched it twice in theaters because like I said, in
a different episode or I might have said it off the episode,
but when I rewatched Thunderbolts, I like I still
enjoyed it, but it didn't hit as.
Hard as I did the same experience.
It didn't hit, Yeah, it didn't hit as hard as like the first
time I've watched it in theaters.
And I kind of have that impression with Superman that

(01:38:49):
once it comes out on VOD, it's not going to hit as hard as I
thought it did right here. So I'm glad that, you know, I've
watched it twice. Both hit hard because foof man,
like once the movie comes out onVOD, like I, I don't know, I I
feel like the discussion, the Superman discussion is like
right now, the Superman discussion is high.

(01:39:11):
I think when we come down to VOVODI, don't think it's going
to be as high. No.
Like I think all the hype is is is is coming out right now and
when it comes out on VOD that Part B when like you know, when
like Dylan drops this like 2 hour video analysis on YouTube
at nightfall films plug. Exactly.

(01:39:34):
We're gonna get deep into the weeds about Superman and how
it's thematically parallels the Batman and Transformers.
Yes, and Transformers for all my159 subscribers.
Crazy. Yep.
Let's get to 10,000. Yeah.
You know, like the more I'm sitting here talking about it,

(01:39:55):
the more I'm thinking this moviedoes have a lot of strengths.
It does compared to the MCU. Like, I think there's a lot
there. I can't remember if you said
this. Friday night or Saturday night.
But you said the legacy of Superman might be contingent on

(01:40:18):
the movies that come after it. Like 4 years from now when
Justice League is gearing up to be released, everyone might look
back and say Superman was fucking revolutionary.
Yep, I can see that, but I thinkwe have to give some credit to

(01:40:40):
the MCU because I think like they really did lay out like the
groundwork for building. No, no, just hear me out because
I think because what is what is James Gun doing right now with
the DCU? He just released Superman Green
Lanterns. The TV show comes out next year
and like they're going to have Supergirl a movie and like, like
they're going to have all this other shit.

(01:41:00):
My point is like, you know, the MCU, what they did, you know,
introducing like TV shows and like, you know, interconnecting
it with the universe. Granted, they don't have a lot
of great TV shows. I could probably name all the
good Marvel TV shows on just onehand.
It's about. To say it hasn't been done well.
Yeah, it's like 1 division and there's one more I like

(01:41:22):
Daredevil. And even then, like now that I'm
thinking about Daredevil, I think I said this on the part,
the Daredevil season 4 or Daredevil Born again.
Hey, Daredevil season 4, it was the weakest season out of all,
like all of Daredevil. And that's not to say it's bad.
It's just, but it's just to say that, you know, the original

(01:41:43):
three seasons of Daredevil were just that good.
So I, I say that to say that like Marvel, like the MCU, like
they laid out the groundwork in like, you know, building this
interconnected universe with themovies and TV shows that like
James Gunn, it's like going to take that formula, but just do
it better. Because after watching Superman,

(01:42:03):
I totally expect like Green Lanterns to go hard.
Like I, I want to see my boy GuyGardner on the screen again,
Like release the ball cut. Hashtag release the ball cut.
Because my boy Guy Gardner, he fucks only 348 women, but he.
Fucks. So I hear what you're saying

(01:42:25):
about the MCU blueprint and obviously just the general
premise of the cinematic universe dates back to the MCU.
But the only thing I would say is I think we've already seen DC

(01:42:47):
do things Marvel has done but better.
Because even though the DC EU was a disaster, yes.
Give me Peacemaker over any single MCU show.
Damn. I'd take the Suicide Squad over

(01:43:08):
any MCU movie as well. OK.
I don't know if I would. I don't know if I'd go that far
like I did. I did like Peacemaker, but like
what? I don't know if I like the
character Peacemaker enough thatI would choose him over like,
you know, watching like Daredevil again or some shit

(01:43:29):
like that. But I see where you're coming
from. Like the DC, the DCU, like what
they're doing with like their TVshows and movies.
Like they're basically doing what Marvel's doing, but better,
more competent. Like the story flows better.
The like the character motivations make more sense and
just they had like, especially James Gunn, like he has a like a

(01:43:54):
weird way of making you care about these characters that
don't fucking matter. Or like they're just, they just
seem like they're just such minor characters.
Yeah, I'm looking at the weasel from like the Suicide Squad.
And then later on, that same character is in Creature
Commandos. And it's like, what the fuck are
you doing, James Gunn? How are you making me care about
these characters that like don'treally matter but you are making

(01:44:15):
me care about? Them.
Yeah, that's what I mean. Like the Suicide Squad.
You have King Shark like the entire world.
The world was worried about whether or not a shark was going
to die in a Suicide Squad. Right.
And I think that that's great and I think the more the more

(01:44:36):
content that DCU puts out, I think the better that the
universe is going to like settlethe thing right now.
Yeah, like we we are given our thoughts just based off only
Superman and the seeds and groundwork that they're laying
down right now. But give it four or five years
after the universe has been moreestablished and we can look back

(01:44:57):
on Superman, it's gonna be like,you know what?
Yeah, it was a lot, but God damnit, everything hit because
there's so there are so many like little story elements
introduced in Superman where like from like the justice, the
Justice Gang, AKA was was the Justice Society of America, I
think is what they're canonically known as from like,

(01:45:19):
you know, the introducing Green Lanterns and shit introducing,
like you said, your favorite thing, pocket dimensions.
So yeah, pocket dimensions. Proton rivers like, you know,
like like that, where it's like they're introducing all these
little things that there's gonnabe a, it's gonna play a
relevant, like a relevant role later on.
Yeah. Because like, just like the

(01:45:40):
concept of like pocket universes, that's already that's
already introducing the concept of a multiverse.
I know on movie one, movie 1, how long did it take Marvel to
just to get to the point where they introduced like, you know,
a multiverse? What was that like?
It took to, I think, all the wayto the terrible Loki show, yeah.

(01:46:01):
Holy to Loki? It might be always to Loki or
the The End Game movie where whichever one came out first.
Oh well, technically it was end game.
Like that and so, but I was likeover like what?
Like 10 years of like building it up to like that event.
James Gunn did it in one movie. Like he and the he didn't

(01:46:21):
introduce multiverses exactly per se, but he he's already
giving like giving you up for like the interesting.
The possibility? Yeah, like it's already there.
Because like even the way Lex Luther explained, he was like,
yeah, like I just, you know, create a little recreated Lex
Litho recreated The Big Bang andand if they would have created a

(01:46:41):
big pocky universe, yeah, no bigdeal.
And like every time you open like the portal to go into this
pocky universe or whatever, you risk the chance of like opening
up a black hole where Earth is. And when they explained that,
and we remember at the beginningof the movie, right, the Hammer
of Bravia, Yeah, uses like the fucking pocket dimensions to

(01:47:03):
basically go to the exact same location where he started.
It's like, I can't believe it because I believe Lex Luthor is
that kind of petty kind of guy that like he will, he will use
these like pocket dimensions superficiously, which I think
he, he fucking trapped his girlfriend in there, which means
he had to open up a pocket universe to take his Blogger

(01:47:25):
girlfriend or ex-girlfriend in there.
Like that's how petty Lex is andthat's how fucking genius he is
that he trusts himself and and his science and his technology
so much like open up a pocket dimension.
It's like just casual. It's a casual.
Like it's a casual thing. Yeah.
Like, let me just like, you know, hey, let me just buy some

(01:47:46):
casual tickets, like to like, you know, the baseball game or
whatever, Like, yeah. Lex like there.
Yeah, I, I see what you're saying.
I I think that Superman sets up a lot of possibilities for the
DCU. It's just a matter of whether or

(01:48:08):
not they can capitalize on them.I think.
I think they can. I think I I.
Think they can too. I I do because I.
Just look at the track record. Like, I generally agree that the
DC, well, DC kind of does what Marvel does, but just more
competently. Yeah.

(01:48:28):
I mean, I, I know it's, it's notthe same thing, but obviously I,
I just think that, you know, just in terms of like pure
filmmaking, The Batman is, is, you know, far exceeds anything

(01:48:52):
Marvel has ever produced. To a degree that where I think
it's, it's actually a little embarrassing for Marvel that
they've, they just, they have never been able to produce a
film that has that level of technical brilliance and, and
artistry behind it. And then honestly, like, yeah,

(01:49:16):
I, I don't, I, I hear what you're saying about the
character of Peacemaker. Like, I don't think he's my
favorite, but I think as a show,I think it's better than almost
all of the Marvel shows, if not all of them, because it actually
understands the format of television, unlike Marvel, who
appear to take 2 1/2 hour moviesand just stretch them out into

(01:49:41):
these six hour shows, right? You know what, that's fair.
My only push back towards like The Batman will be like Logan,
which I think it's not even a fair comparison, just because
like The Batman really does feellike a comic book movie that's

(01:50:03):
more like that's grounded in reality, like as it feels in our
universe. Whereas Logan just feels like
more of a western featuring, youknow, comic book shit, like
muses and shit. But yeah, I see what you're
saying in regards to like, yeah,I like The Batman does feel like
it does feel like a film. And like the only film that I
can like that was the only moviethat I think Marvelous put out

(01:50:25):
that feels like a film would be Logan.
And that's not even Marvel. That's that was Fox.
That was Fox before. You know, they like retired,
like they retired Logan spectacularly before Marvel,
like just threw more money at his corpse and brought him back
for Deadpool and Wolverine. Yeah, see, I don't even think

(01:50:46):
Logan's in the same stratosphereas the Batman.
See, I knew you would say that, but that's why that's why I like
I, I just, I put it there as pushback because like I, I do
think like if your argument is that like like the Batman, like
actually feels like a film, I would argue like Logan feels
like a film. Maybe it's not the same caliber
as like, you know, the Batman, but for a Marvel film like

(01:51:06):
Logan, I I thought it was solid like as like a like I well.
For a Marvel film. Like I but yeah, and like I
would call like I would call that like a film.
Like Logan, I would call that a film.
Versus I wouldn't call. Fair enough.
I wouldn't call. As much as I enjoy the end game
and the end Infinity War, I wouldn't call them films.
Those are movies. Great movies.

(01:51:26):
Yeah, enjoyable movies, but not an end game.
Yeah, those aren't films. Yeah, those are just movies.
Yeah, but yeah, there's one thing I wanted to bring up and
it's that like it's just some chatter that I've seen online
because, OK, maybe me, like I'vesaid this before on the pod,
like I try to avoid spoilers as much as I can.

(01:51:48):
So I generally try, try to avoidlike just discussions about
movies even before they've come out.
But now the movies come out and I've seen it like I allow, I
allow myself to look at, I look at the chatter.
There are a lot of people onlinethat don't like that our boy
David is kind of whiny as Superman.
And I think y'all are dumb because this is obviously like a

(01:52:11):
Superman who, you know, maybe you guys were conditioned by the
Henry Cavill Superman in the Zack Snyder universe.
I think that's what it but this is a Superman David art board
David like this is a Superman who has emotions, who allows
himself to feel things like whenhe's sad, he's sad and when he's
like like when things hurt him like it hurts him, he's not

(01:52:34):
afraid to show his emotions. And I think I think that's what
like, you know, it humanizes Superman even more.
And like everybody like people online like saying like, you
know, like they want like a stoic Superman or whatever.
Just go re watch Man of Steel ifthat's what you want.
That's not who. Superman is, but it's not but

(01:52:55):
like. If that, if that's what the
people want or some people want,like, hey, like there's a,
there's a rating. Yeah, it's still there for.
You. Yeah, you can go watch Man of.
Steel in BVS? Yep, it's they're both available
to you. I think there's really, you
know, I'm glad you brought that up because honestly, I just, I
guess I couldn't even be bothered to, to care about it

(01:53:17):
because. Like I see him like it's dumb.
Like I. Think it's about, you know,
Clark growing up. That's what this movie is about.
That's his journey as a character.
Yup, in this film. But I think, you know, we end
this on the most obvious note, which is crypto.

(01:53:39):
Do you think he was utilized well?
I think so. I think so.
Too I I like that crypto like atthe end of the day, it felt like
he was a dog, not like some super.
I mean yes he was super powered but like not like some super
smart engineered dog and this and that, no.
He's not a rocket raccoon. Yeah, exactly.
He was a fucking dog. And like, I loved that.

(01:54:01):
Like, you know, fucking Clark couldn't like control him
because like. Crypto's just kind of an.
Asshole like yeah, that is just like he's a dog like that's how
dogs are and like obviously likeif you train a dog he'll be
he'll he'll behave better but then you know we see towards the
end of the film why Krypto yeah it's the way he is it's because
his drunk ass owner Supergirl like let's like let's him like

(01:54:25):
be rough like that and it's and that's what you.
Say, that is another thing aboutthe movie that I wasn't a huge
fan of characterizing Supergirl as like this sorority lush.
Like I don't, I don't know how Ifeel about that.
But. It's such a small part of the
movie that I'm not going to say like, oh, fuck this, like that

(01:54:49):
ruins the movie for me, right? And just really briefly, because
I, I just remembered this, but I, I did not like the change to
the Superman lore of Jorel and Lara, his mom, that they sent

(01:55:09):
him to Earth to basically conquer it.
I, I did not like that. But at the same time, they
didn't really elaborate on that.Maybe it'll go somewhere in
future movies, but I just in thecontext of this movie alone,
wasn't a fan. I think that was fake news.
You think it was fake? News.
I genuinely think like you don'tthink fucking Lex Luthor.

(01:55:32):
Fucking genius billionaire and extraordinaire who can build a
fucking pocket universes cannot fool some computer tech guys
with like fake like video like afake message.
I mean, he definitely can. Yeah.
So like that, that's what I think.
I think that's what happened. Like we're, we're going to have

(01:55:55):
to wait like if they're going tocome back to them and reveal
that. But I genuinely believe like
that was all manipulated by Lex.We didn't even talk about like,
how so this movie tries to address like, misinformation
and. Bro.
All that bot farming and rage bait.

(01:56:15):
You know what, I want to get into that, but I'm going to let
chat know and we're going to save that for the Patreon
episode because we'll talk aboutit now.
But it's like, I just, I'm glad you brought that up because I
want to mention like, yeah, thismovie, like after thinking about
it and watching it a second time, I think you can kind of
see where James Gunn's politics lies.

(01:56:37):
And that's all I want to say before I get cancelled by the
Internet. But but but what did you say
before that? How they try to tackle modern
things like yes, like misinformation in bot farming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I noticed that like, I
think I kind of caught that the first time, but after we talked

(01:57:01):
about that and I paid attention the second time, I was like, my
God, it's everywhere. You know what that's kind of
smart, how a society or how misinformation can do so much
harm and like like turn people against Superman like so easily
just with like just pure misinformation that's spreading.

(01:57:24):
And it's like all the goodwill he built up, like it just goes
out the window in seconds. Like that guy that they
interview. I supported Superman for a long
time, but now, no way. Like fuck him.
Yep. Like it was just crazy to see.
And, you know, OK, we can get more in depth on it in the
Patreon episode, but this is thefinal point I'm going to bring

(01:57:49):
up about Superman that I think is interesting.
If everybody recalls, James Gunnwas fired by Disney in 2019 on
ceremoniously because things from his past were dug up.
And then it was purported and sort of pushed online by a group

(01:58:11):
of bad faith actors, one might even say rage monkeys.
And James Gunn was quickly castigated and tossed out
because of what happened. And that story happens in
Superman. I'm just saying, I think maybe

(01:58:33):
this story is a little personal for James Gunn.
Not completely, not entirely, but I think there's, I think
it's a possibility. Yeah, damn.
I didn't make that connection. No, I think there are like, I
think, you know what? I think you're on to something.
I think there are like some subtleties and like, some like,

(01:58:57):
I don't want to say agendas, butthere is like some like there is
a message that James Gunn wants to, like, put out.
Yeah, like, besides, like, besides the Superman like
message and all that. I think there's like, you know,
I think James Gunn just like lowkey telling you how he feels
about these things. Yes.
And with like without being overt about it, like he's not

(01:59:17):
bashing your head over it, but he's like showing you like, hey,
like misinformation, like it canbe dangerous.
And this is how it can like spread.
I agree. But I totally believe that.
I I totally believe that's fake news.
But maybe that's just me, you know, being like spoon fed by
the propaganda. I hope you're right.
I hope you're right honestly, because I I really wasn't a fan

(01:59:38):
of that, but you know, it is Lex, so it's always a
possibility and right, like I said, we they could elaborate on
that or dispel that lie in in future movies.
So yeah, it's it's too early to to definitively say.
Yeah, exactly. So, ladies and gentlemen, what

(02:00:01):
did you think about Superman? Did you love it?
Did you hate it? Like, how are we feeling about a
chat? Yeah, 'cause like after talking
about it, like, I still like it.And I think you know what?
After talking about it, I think I like it even more now.
Like now that. To say, doing this episode, I've
kind of, I would kind of bump itfrom good to like very good.

(02:00:25):
I don't know if it's great yet, right?
But I think it's very, very good.
Yeah, same. Like I think just talking out my
thoughts, I'm like, you know what?
Like even like my critiques or whatever.
And it's just nice to have a sounding board, too.
Yeah, but yeah. Chap Superman probably 1 of like
the better movies of this year. There's still more movies to

(02:00:47):
come out, but. I think we're gonna be talking
about this for the rest of the year to some degree.
Easily in the top ten. I'll.
See if it's gonna make in the top five for me, because right
now, so far, like so far, it's Sinners, it's #1F1.
Haven't seen F1, haven't seen F1yet.
But like, I think Superman is definitely gonna be in my top

(02:01:07):
ten. If it ends up being in my top
five, Fuck, I don't know how I'mgonna feel about that either.
Either not that many good moviescame out or not, I don't know.
Are we, are we odds on favorite that Superman is the best
superhero film of the year? Yeah, I think so too.
I think so, yeah. OK, yeah, we're gonna say that.

(02:01:28):
Yeah. Superman is like the best film,
best superhero film of this year.
Second place is Thunderbolts. I haven't seen Fantastic Four,
but I, I it's just. It's just a gut feeling.
Yeah, like I but I, I hope that Fantastic Four is at least
better than Brave New World. Like if if if if fucking
Fantastic Four makes me bump Brave New World higher and over

(02:01:52):
Fantastic Four. I don't know, I might just have
to boycott the next Marvel. Movie if Fantastic Four is not
at least better than the 2005 one.
I think I'm done because I I tried rewatching the 2005 one a
couple nights ago. Oh my God dude it was so.
It was so cheesy. Like, I actually felt kind of

(02:02:13):
embarrassed watching it. But those were like, that's how
the the comic book movies were kind of like, or not all of
them, but that's how some of them were back then.
Like they were like comic bookieand zany and shit like Spider
Man, Fantastic Four. Only a few movies try to be, you
know, edgy, dark, mysterious. Yeah.
Well, yeah. Well, ladies and gentlemen, I

(02:02:35):
hope you enjoyed our discussion regarding Superman, but just
know there will be more student man discussions to be had.
But I think this one, this one covers I think 90% of how we're.
It's about 90%. And then if you get our quote,
UN quote first impressions on Episode 18.
There's like another 5 or like 7% there.

(02:02:55):
Yeah. The last 3% is really mostly
just like, about like, like the,the, the political view of like
the universe. Like I'm not even talking about
politics in our life. I'm talking about like the
politics. In the universe of the film,
yeah. Yeah, but I just, I'm not trying
to get cancelled right now, so I'm gonna save those thoughts
for another. Episode that's gonna be behind
the nice Patreon pay wall where it's nice and safe.

(02:03:19):
Yup Yup. So that's that.
And that's not us trying to be trying to be shills and get you
to like check out the Patreon. That's more just like, you know,
no us covering our asses. Like that's like literally half
the reason. But there is genuinely a
fantastic episode on there called Age of Band.

(02:03:40):
Yes, I highly suggest you guys check it out.
Yeah, me too. Watch it alongside actually, no,
first I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you the guide chat first.
Watch episode 15 of Below the Line podcast.
Then head on head on over to Nightfall Films on YouTube and
watch the Transformer video. You don't know which one it is.

(02:04:01):
Just go to the channel, go to the videos store by most
popular, it's number, it's number 11.
It's just the number 11. You'll find it.
You'll get. It once you watch that, then if
you're feeling generous and still inclined and want to
support the show and feel free to go to the Patreon you the

(02:04:22):
last part of the of the Bayhem Madness episode is right there.
And it's a great cap to the the bass saga because.
I think it's like 5. I think it's like 5 hours worth
of Michael Bay content. All those platforms from like
the podcast to the YouTube channel to the Patreon, like,

(02:04:45):
where else are you gonna get like, you know, that level of
like, fucking? That level of of film scholar.
Analogy and like, you know, justputting it on all these
different platforms, how do we do it?
I don't know. Dylan does it all.
I'm just here. I'm just here to provide the
vocals. Well, I think he's giving me a
little too much credit there. But yeah, that was the guide

(02:05:09):
and, and I will just echo the sentiment because, you know,
I'm, I'm proud of the Transformers video and I said it
in the last episode. So yeah, I'm just, I'm, I'm
thankful for the reception and I, I really had a lot of fun
doing the The Age of Bayhem Patreon episode.
So if you are feeling generous, I think it's worth it.

(02:05:33):
Yep. So with all that being said,
chat, thank you for sitting downwith us and talking in film or
listening to us talk. Thank you if you've been here
since like episode 1 or even if you've been here since like
episode 19. Or even episode 8 for the Joker
episode. Exactly like it wherever you've
been or however you found this podcast, thank you for listening

(02:05:55):
to us, especially this episode, Episode 20.
Huge fucking milestone, especially for us.
Like, come on, guys. It's it's it might sound, it
might sound easy, but like, yeah, it's not easy.
Like trying to be consistent andput out an episode every week
and record it. Sounds easy in principle but

(02:06:18):
cast would say otherwise. It's fun when you're like at a
party or a kickback with your friends and you're like, we
should start a podcast. Yeah.
But then you start one and you realize this.
There's more to this than just Igotta, I gotta talking shit.
Yeah, I gotta. Show up consistently, fuck yeah.
But no, I genuinely like, I enjoy these conversations.

(02:06:40):
So for me, it's just we're just coming here to the studio and
chatting and it's. Yeah.
So do I enjoy it? I mean, yeah, we're just sitting
here and talking about film. And I mean, that's, I mean,
hell, that's what I do at home. So, you know, this is just a
different outlet for me to do that.
And I think Jesse said it perfectly.

(02:07:00):
Whether you've been around sinceepisode 1 or even episode 19, it
doesn't matter, you know, as long as you've joined us for
this one. This this is big Episode 20.
Like that's, that's a lot of episodes, I mean, when you think
about the work that goes into it.
So thank you. Yep.
At minimum 20 hours of content has been.

(02:07:23):
Recorded by the. Online podcast?
Come on. Which is crazy.
That's crazy work. That is crazy work.
Honestly, it's. Like 20 hours worth of my voice
that I can like go back and listen to and be like, yo, hold
on, we've been doing this for a minute.
I. Made an impact on the film
commentary space. Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, thank you, Chad, for listening to this episode.

(02:07:46):
Feel free to show us your support by leaving any comments
or likes, whether you're listening to this on Spotify or
YouTube. Yeah, let's drive up the
comments on YouTube for this episode.
I'd appreciate that. I feel like if anyone is gonna
breakthrough on YouTube it's. Gonna be this yeah but if not
that's OK cuz we're still gonna show up next week we're.

(02:08:09):
Still gonna show up for the 36? Yep.
We're still gonna be grinding out these episodes because at
the end of the day, it's fun forus and I hope you guys enjoy it
because I enjoy it. Yeah, me too.
And obviously we got to take care of Fantastic Four, so Yup,
might as well stick around. Exactly.
No, guys, come on, we haven't even talked about F1 Drastic.

(02:08:29):
World, Yeah, Hopefully we're going to get to F1.
I really, really need Jesse to watch.
It we will hey chat, remember one time I said I would watch
tough gun eventually I'll watch F1 eventually.
OK, here we go. I'll leave it at that.
That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for.
Tuning in guys. Thanks for listening to U.S.
chat. Thank you.

(02:08:51):
Thanks for listening everybody. You can follow us on Spotify,
which is the most effective way to support the show.
Of course, at below the line podcast, subscribe to the
YouTube channel at nightfall films.
You can also find us on TikTok under the same handle.
Other than that, that is all that we have for you.
So thank you to Levi for composing the intro music.

(02:09:15):
Thank you to Jesse for the artwork.
Peace. Plans.
Namaste.

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