The Fantastic Four: First Steps Flatlines

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Be. Inspired to do things
differently. Hey everyone, welcome back to
the show. This is Below the Line podcast
brought to you by the nobodies of Hollywood.
I'm Dylan. And I'm Jesse.
Before we get into the show proper, I would just like to
offer a brief in memoriam to Julian McMahon, who portrayed

(00:29):
Victor Von Doom and Doctor Doom in the 2005 Fantastic Four,
directed by Tim's Story and it'ssequel Fantastic Four, Rise of
the Silver Surfer. So we're just going to take a
brief moment of silence for him.And thank you.

(00:53):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.Yes, thank you, ladies and
gentlemen. Thank you for taking that moment
of silence with us. Well, whether whether you wanted
to or not, you participated if you're, if you're still
listening. But I think that was, that was
pretty relevant to bring up because today we're, we're
talking about like Fantastic Four.

(01:14):
And that's pretty relevant giventhat he was, as you told me, the
the actor that played the original Doctor Victor Von Doom,
which, you know, I'm going to get out of the way.
I think the original Fantastic Four is probably my favorite
iteration out of all three iterations so far.
I'm gonna join you. I I think it's probably my

(01:35):
favorite. I know a lot of people clown
those movies, but I think they're kind of endearing in, in
a 2000s comic book campy kind ofway.
And I also, I mean, we'll get into this.
Obviously this movie is about Fantastic Four first steps.
I keep forgetting this movie as a subtitle.
Yeah, yeah, you. Know, I think I just keep

(01:55):
calling it Fantastic Four. Yeah, but it does have a
subtitle. It does have a subtitle, so
we'll get into this, obviously, but I'm gonna go ahead and join
you and say that I, I probably preferred the 2005 Fantastic
Four. Yeah, like.
When people talk about like Robert Downey Junior Junior
being Doctor Victor Von Doom, I'm like, that's not my doctor.
That does nothing for me. Yeah, my Doctor Doom, he was the

(02:18):
one. You know he's in the sky right
now. RIP.
Yeah, my guy brought the energy as Doctor Doom.
I mean, when he got his arm checked because he was starting
to develop the metal, you know, he, he just, he was really true
in the scenery in that. I think he, he, he, I think he
really captured like, you know, like a villain being a villain.
I don't know how Robert Downey Junior is going to be a villain.

(02:38):
Like he's going to be AI think he's going to be too charismatic
to, you know, people for people to hate him.
Honestly, I'm going to be honest, this is part of the
reason I'm so cynical about Robert Downey Junior's Doctor
Doom is I don't want this dumb little fuck Spider Man to see
Doom without the mask on and be like, it's, it's Mr. Stark.

(03:00):
We, we can't. And then he's just going to be
crying because, you know, SpiderMan has no sense of identity
without Tony Stark. That.
Emotional impact that that actually, no, he might be like,
oh wait, no, like, you know, he made the wish, so he's not going
to know who I am anyway. I don't know, I'm just really
not looking forward to it. But now I get it.
But yeah, no, I'm not looking forward to the new.

(03:24):
I'm still not looking forward toRobert Robert Downey.
Junior I'm a very outspoken critic of Iron Boy.
Same. And you know, actually know what
I'm going to this podcast from at this point onward until I say
so we'll be spoiler free. So I'm.
Gonna. Yes, we're gonna.
Hold off my spoilers. We're gonna, yeah, I'm gonna

(03:44):
something like Superman. Yeah, I'm gonna wait like maybe
20-30 minutes and then I'm gonna.
We're gonna keep it surface level.
Yeah, at the beginning, All right.
But I said what I said in the beginning and I think the I
think the first iteration I whendid it come out 2005 two?
1005, the first one was 05. Yeah.
Then I'm gonna say that's like my favorite iteration of the

(04:05):
Fantastic Four like maybe not the sequel, not so much, but
just the original 1 like we don't talk about fan of four
stick, but I the original 1 is probably my favorite 1 like this
one. I I wasn't feeling it.
Yeah, which it's I might catch some flak for this because I've
been seeing like people like ourthis movie is is being Gene

(04:28):
people. Loved kind of love this movie.
It's. Being well received like the.
Reviews are positive. I just saw a TikTok today of
this guy who said it is his favorite comic book movie of the
year. He said he couldn't believe that
he liked it more than Superman. Bro that's crazy because I mean.
But just just for a point of reference to give you my just

(04:50):
surface level impression as wellis it's Saturday when we're
recording this. Jesse and I watched it last
night and the movie ended. The credits started rolling.
Obviously, we knew that we had to stay.
I sat there in complete silence because I didn't want to be the
guy to bring us down. And then Jesse just says, I feel

(05:13):
like that was a big nothing burger, which it was.
And honestly, I I feel like thatis the best encapsulation of
Fantastic Four first steps. Yep.
And I'm gonna stand on that likethat.
So like now you ladies and gentlemen, you got it right out
the way. Like this is how I feel about
the movie. Like I'm not a fan and I'm gonna
try to keep it spoiler free again like I.

(05:33):
Said But yeah, we'll. Like already just know, do our
best. I'm gonna come at this with
like, yeah, I'm I'm worried. I'm not the biggest fan, but I
will try to give it. I'm gonna come in with love
first. I'm gonna come in with the
spoiler free love. Okay.
I was a fan of the retro vibes, yes.
I think this is something I've seen people are a fan of.
They were a fan of the futuristic but also retro vibe

(05:57):
and I liked it too. I feel like I was watching one
of those old highs. It was like that old show the.
Jetsons. Yes, I was gonna say that.
Not the Flintstones, the other one, the future.
Yes, it it felt very much like that.
It did and I like that like Futurama, like it gave me like
that. You know how we envisioned like
you know how we in the 80s, nineties envisioned the future

(06:18):
would be. Yeah, we thought 2000s were
going to be so like. Back to the Future vibe like.
Utopia I. Got like, I got that and I kind
of did like that. Like, you know, this is this
cute? Because like, yeah, it is in the
future, but it's also retro. But it's not steampunk.
So I did like that it did have its own.
It has its own aesthetic. Aesthetic.

(06:39):
Yes. A lot of moral films, they kind
of look the same, and while I will say this one still suffers
from that, it does the kind of same me to the other moral
films. I did like that.
It did try to do like this, likethis aesthetic and it like it it
it did seem consistent, like from the buildings to the cars
to like, you know, even the interior, like just how the ways

(07:00):
like rooms are shaped and the decor like all right, like they
had a vision and they kept consistent with it.
It wasn't like Game of Thrones season 8, like a Star Wars cup,
just like in the middle of the floor showing up or whatever mid
scene. No, this they they they ran a
tight ship. So I'm going to give it praise
for that. Yeah, I think in general I also

(07:22):
appreciated the retrofuturist aesthetic.
I thought the set design was generally very good.
But I, I will say, I think the, the set design, I'm not even
going to attempt to pronounce her name because I know I'm
going to butcher it. But she also did the set design

(07:43):
for low key, which I think is interesting because Loki is a
very bland show in my opinion. But yeah, this movie has a very
distinct look to it. I think where the issue comes in
for me is it still suffers from the same flatness in terms of

(08:08):
the color grading that Marvel has a a clear issue with.
I've seen some people say that this is one of the most visually
distinct Marvel movies in a longtime, and it is based on the
production design. But if we're talking about how
it's actually sort of shot and how it's been color graded, no,

(08:33):
it's still kind of looks like a used parking lot.
Yeah. Joker Joker 2 of Folio do have
better color. Yeah definitely just better
color design in this movie and which is sad cuz like this movie
did try to go for like, you knowlike those like soft colors like
even like their suits were like not like that typical Navy blue
they're like a. Pastel type of.

(08:53):
Blue and like they were going for like, you know, very pastel
palette type of view or. Color.
And I think that's why you kind of needed more vibrant colors.
Yeah, because the movie is trying to.
It was vibrant in space and I didn't like that.
Yeah, the movie's trying to communicate like this, this very
specific tone, especially using that the aesthetic as a as a

(09:16):
sort of framework for the story.But then the actual color
palette of the movie doesn't reflect this kind of optimism.
Because I think something that stood out to me is the Fantastic
Four's interaction with the public, by and large, is very
positive. Like these people love them and

(09:40):
to me, the movie just felt more upbeat and I I just think
because of that, the movie wouldhave done well to kind of bump
up some of those colors and makethis movie a little more
vibrant. Yeah, yeah, I know they they
were missing out on that. I didn't want to get into that

(10:02):
critique right away, but you gotinto it.
So yeah, I had like that positive thing to mention.
But yeah, I did have that that same critique that the the the
colors did feel a bit muted. And it's just, it added like it
added to, you know, the flavor of this nothing burger.
It just made it more dull, like every egg just yeah, yes, it had
this, you know, it's like, it's like, yes, it's like a Krusty

(10:24):
Krab Patty. Like, yes, it looked like the
the color, the the colorful Curry patties.
Yes, the Patty was green, but itwas still just like a whatever
Patty made very blandly. I don't know.
I'm going to give it another positive before Dylan tears it
down with another another negative.

(10:44):
We're going to play good called bad copier.
All right. And then when we get to spoil
territory, we'll switch. We'll switch roles.
Yeah, you'll play the devil's advocate, but I'm gonna give
another pro. Another pro was that this movie,
this movie or this universe takes place in a different They
did not take place in the sacredtimeline as we've come to know

(11:05):
it from six. .16 Yep. It's not.
It's not in the main Marvel Universe, It's not in the same
MCU movie universe. It's kinda like it's on a little
soft reset. It takes place in universe 828
and I think the way this movie is portrayed, I think the
Fantastic Four might be like theonly superhero like.
It seemed that way meta. Humans are yeah like just the

(11:26):
only superheroes on like that universe cuz everybody like they
were they've been superheroes for four years.
Everything goes through the. Fantastic Fours.
They they get press conferences and everything like.
This isn't spoilers but like youknow, but I think from the
trailers. No, they're like the.
Trailers Galactus is involved soyou know already from the plot
that you know Galactus is is a threat in the story.

(11:46):
So you know there is no like Avengers Assemble moment it's
the Fantastic Four versus like you know this world eating being
so like in this universe ATA is just a Fantastic Four.
I think there might be others onsome other planets or other
planets other universes or whatever.
But in this universe specifically, no, it's just a

(12:08):
Fantastic Four. So that I'm going to say that's
going to play into its core strength, that it was like its
own movie. Like, yeah, its own.
I agree. It kind of felt just a little
bit I'm I'm gonna compare to Superman.
Superman comparisons are starting now, starting now,
right here on Below the Line podcast episode 20.
One, it was inevitable. Yep, but I'm I'm I'm not just

(12:30):
before it becomes the main segment.
I'm already introduced the concept, but in the same concept
that under similar vein that Superman was like a movie where
like it felt like the universe was already established.
They already felt lived in like the people already used to like
all the weird shenanigans that was going on.
This one also Fantastic Four also felt like that to a lesser

(12:51):
degree, like you had the mole people like people living in the
ground like this is like a universe society like where like
they have like their own quarks and it felt like it feels more
lived in than the traditional Earth 616 MCU, where it feels
like it's a parallel. We've done this before.
It feels like it's a parallel toour universe where they

(13:12):
superheroes are introduced versus like a universe where
like they're already like, it's already a thing, it's already
established and like they're they're used to it.
So like this movie also felt like that, like the like the
like the citizens, like people, like they like they responded in
the way where like they were they're used to like the
Fantastic Four taking care of shit.

(13:32):
I guess we are going to do a good cop, bad cop because go
ahead with the negative. You brought that up, and I think
in many ways it is a strength ofthis movie, but at the same time
I think it's also a flaw becauseI think something that I noticed
about this movie, and maybe thisis a a me problem, but I felt

(13:55):
like the Fantastic Four were extremely isolated in this film.
They were. Compared to Superman, like you,
like Jesse just said he's introducing this concept so I'm
just gonna run with it. Compared to Superman that felt
like a lived in world that was populated by all these colorful

(14:17):
characters like Lex, Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen, the sex God.
Green Lantern. Green Lantern.
Yes, exactly. Hawk girl.
Yes, whereas I feel like in Fantastic Four first steps, they
felt strangely isolated from everything else that was

(14:37):
happening around them. And I know what people are going
to say. Well, the movie wants to focus
on them and their dynamic as a family, but I I just think
everything involving the Fantastic Four feels slightly
underdeveloped. There are interesting ideas here

(15:00):
and there, but nothing actually feels like it's fleshed out and
that includes the interpersonal conflicts that they have.
The movie wants to focus so muchon these 4 main characters that
I actually think it kind of separates them from their
humanity because we don't see them interacting with really

(15:21):
anybody except for themselves. And I found that to be
especially weird once we get into the later acts of the film.
I'm not going to get into the details yet, but I think once
there's this big sequence in themiddle of the movie, but pretty
much everything after that, I thought it was very odd how

(15:44):
isolated they were from everything happening around
them, including the third act. OK, I want to be a good cop and
say like, hey, you know what? It's because like, you know, in
that universe, they're celebrities.
So who are you to have this parasocial relationship with
this celebrity? You know, like they have their
own lives and shit, you know, but that's a fair, that's a fair

(16:05):
critique. But I'm going to go jump on,
jump on to like another, you know, pro or another.
I'm going to give it its flowers.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to give itits flowers for the, the
characterization. Like I felt, I feel like, excuse
me, Well, I get my notes. I am now a member of this
fantastic app called Letterbox Dand I have to you can follow me

(16:31):
as Andrew under score space. I have to look up.
This memorize that word, ladies and gentlemen.
Yep. Vanessa Kirby Vanessa Kirby as
Sue Storm. I felt like she was a very good
Sue Storm. Absolutely.
Her character was also great. This movie I've one of the
mathematic values of this movie was family and motherhood,
especially because I felt like she took such a core presence in

(16:55):
this movie to a point where likeDylan somewhere in the middle of
the movie, he's like, I didn't know like invisible invisible
woman was like this stronger OP and I was like maybe in some
comics or she is because in this.
Universe, and apparently she is.I don't have an issue with that,
by the way. I just.
He's strong in 2007, yeah. Joseph Quinn as Johnny Storm,

(17:19):
Human Torch. I thought he was he was great.
Like he was he he could be funny.
He could be like, you know, kindof not charismatic, but like,
you know, he had like that like that Playboy energy, but not
like the Super horny energy in that like, you know, he's just
thinking of his Dick with his Dick all the time.
He also had like this intellectual side which I don't

(17:41):
think we saw it in the Chris Evans iteration.
I never watched Fan 4 sticks so I don't know how that Human
Torch is but. He was the only good part of
that. Movie In this movie, he this
Johnny, like he shows some intellect, like he shows like
some go getter isms, like he andhe's there's this puzzle that's

(18:02):
introduced that he he works on it to solve by himself.
He could he he has the option togive it to Reed Richards, but he
chooses not to because he wants to solve it himself and he has
the capabilities to do it. So like this is not like a dumb
human torch, which I like. Like, OK, they made him like,
you know, you're not a fan of his comedy, but like, you know,
like they try to make him funny.They try to make him like horny

(18:23):
and then they try to make him like smart.
And I think like characterization wise, like I
think it did work. Granted, I'm, I, I'm still not a
fan. Like I, I think I still prefer
the Chris Evans rendition, but not to say that this is not a
bad characterization for Johnny Pedro Pascal as Mr. Fantastic.

(18:44):
I'm not a big fan, but I'm not going to complain too much about
it. Like I think he did his role
fine. Because in my head, canonically,
this is where I'm going to get, I'm going to put my nerd hat on
economically. I know that in universe and
they've introduced the concept of, of incursions in the MCU.

(19:05):
So if they move this Reed Richards from universe 828 into
the mainline universe 616, that's going to cause a rift in
the universe. And Pedro Pascal's Reed Richard
is going to have to get the fuckoff this universe planet or else
he's going to fuck up everything.
So I don't believe this is goingto be the Pedro Pascal moving
forward as Mr. Fantastic for themainline 616 universe.

(19:28):
I think this is just a variant, just like our boy.
RIP Jim. That that that variant from
madness. Yeah.
So I don't think this is going to be the main Reed Richards.
So I want to say like with that being said, I think Pedro Pascal
as Reed Richards was fine. I was not impressed.
I don't have any, but I also don't have any criticisms.

(19:51):
I know Dylan has his criticism. The only criticism is like, I've
seen you, like I've I've been seeing Pedro Pascal and
everything. Like, good for you, bro.
Like get your money and like, I'm proud of you.
Like I, I, I wish you all the success in the world.
Bro, I I just saw you. Glad you're here too.
And now I'm seeing you again. Like, take a break.
That's my only critique. But other than that, like, I

(20:12):
didn't feel like he was a bad Reed Richards.
I just didn't feel he was. I I was not impressed by his
Reed Richards. And my only critique for the
characterization is going to be The Thing.
As Dylan mentioned, after the movie theaters, he was very
like, underutilized. Yeah.
And I felt the same way. I'm like, yeah, The thing.
He was just like the CGI BLOB. He was just there.

(20:34):
Rocky Raccoon. This other CGI blonde had more
characterization than The Thing.Yeah, but maybe that's what
happens when you don't get JamesGunn to direct the Marvel film.
OK, I really am going to sound like the bad guy here, but let
me lead with kindness. Peace plants.

(20:54):
I agree 100% about Vanessa Kirby.
I think she is pretty, pretty easily.
I think the definitive Sue Stormalready after one movie.
All all due respect to Jessica Alba version.
Yeah, yeah. She was the hot version, but she
wasn't like, this was like the that Jessica Alba was like the

(21:17):
the sexy hot version, invinciblewoman.
This one was like the mature momversion of a Yeah, yeah, she was
smart. She was like in charge of shit
and. She was the heart of this team,
which that's kind of a cliche tosay, but it's the truth.
She's the glue that holds this team together.
Vanessa Kirby was the best part of this movie.

(21:39):
Make absolutely no mistake. She has the strongest
performance in the film. Sue feels the most nuanced and
layered to me as a character, and yes, it helps that she is
kind of at the focal point of the story here.

(21:59):
And I think obviously a lot of the movies themes relate
directly to Sue, right? So I have no disagreements about
Vanessa Kirby. They need to keep her.
Ideally, I think they should. Keep her, keep her actress.
Maybe a different variant? Yeah.
But keep. Exactly.
Yeah, but I I really could not disagree more about Joseph Quinn

(22:23):
and Pedro Pascal. I think both of these guys were
horribly miscast. Joseph Quinn as Johnny Storm.
I just don't know. I'm not sure what the thinking
was there because, OK, all due respect to Joseph Quinn, this is

(22:45):
a really tough industry. It's a miracle to get a role in
the 1st place. But Joseph Quinn is basically
only well known because he had arole in a few episodes of one
season of Stranger Things. Johnny Storm is supposed to be

(23:06):
this guy that's humorous, heroic, but also he is supposed
to be a ladies man and he's supposed to have some semblance
of a sex appeal. He's supposed to be ridiculously
handsome. I did not get that from Joseph
Quinn. Are we talking about the human
torture? We're talking about our boy

(23:26):
Timmy Olsen. I'm talking about the Human
Torch, maybe. Maybe it's easy.
To confuse the two. Yeah, like I think maybe maybe
that's like Superman. Maybe if you didn't watch
Superman you would not be comparing him to like the sex
God that is. Maybe.
Maybe that's the issue. We just got a better version
just two weeks ago. Yeah, maybe I was like, gone.

(23:49):
No, it's all right, But Johnny Storm is supposed to be this guy
that is so ridiculously handsomethat he kind of just coasts by
on life on his looks. And that's not the only
dimension to his character. But I just don't think Joseph
Quinn gave me that that cockiness.

(24:10):
He didn't give me that that sex appeal.
And I found Joseph Quinn to be just a truly baffling decision
as as a casting choice because the movie does put a lot on
Johnny's shoulders in terms of the plotting.
I would say Johnny actually has a pretty significant role in

(24:33):
this film. I.
Think they all do? And I think what's the reason
that it doesn't really work for me is because the movie does put
a lot on Johnny's shoulders, butJohnny specifically, his tone
conflicts with the overall tone of the movie.
Because the tone of the film in general is trying to be this

(24:55):
more serious, more sincere interpretation of the Fantastic
Four. Whereas Johnny represents more
of the traditional MCU where he's kind of doing the joke, a
minute quipping thing. And I just found his whole
character and his subplot to just kind of be at odds with the

(25:20):
the overall sort of architectureof the film.
So Joseph Quinn did not really work for me.
It's it sounds like I'm picking on the guy, but I'm not.
It's just that Human Torch is myfavorite member of the Fantastic
Four, so. You are picking on.
Him but I will say you are absolutely correct that the one

(25:41):
thing this movie does to showcase that Johnny is
intelligent, because that's something we don't see in the
Tim story. Fantastic Four because in terms
of the sort of original Jack Kirby comics, the Fantastic Four
are actually I would. This is me.
Maybe some nerds will come afterme for this comment.

(26:05):
Mr. Hey, you know, like comic accurate quote UN quote is about
to. Be comic accurate right now.
I actually think that Johnny Storm and the rest of the
Fantastic Four, they're primarily sort of adventure
scientists and superheroes 2nd and I think that's something

(26:26):
this movie actually captures pretty well.
That's true, yeah. Cuz and yeah, yeah, that's fair.
So I I agree. The one thing this movie does in
terms of Johnny is it showcases he's a an intelligent man, He's
a capable person, despite the fact that he can be sort of
lackadaisical and just, you know, maybe, you know, not take

(26:49):
things too seriously. You know, this Johnny just he
wasn't, he didn't dial up the the the player aspect enough for
me. He wasn't cocky enough for me.
He wasn't kind of an asshole. And I think, you know, there's
so much that Chris Evans did better.

(27:10):
But I absolutely agree, you know, in the spirit of fairness
and just intellectual honesty, the one thing this Johnny
absolutely has over every other Johnny Storm is they show that
he's a capable member of this team.
He's not just there to make jokes and and pull women.

(27:33):
Yes, the thing. Oh, look, no shade to I think
it's a Bon Moss Bacharach. He's basically just playing his
character in the Bear. He he's doing the same voice.
But this is my real issue with The thing is that we don't see

(27:55):
any of Ivan Moss Bacharach's performance come through.
The thing is just a CGI rock man.
Whereas I think in the 2005 Fantastic Four, you can argue
about how he looked all you wantbecause I kind of agree it
didn't look the best. But I think there was strengths

(28:16):
in making the Thing practical with the suit in the original
Fantastic Four because I could actually see Michael Chiklis
come through in the performance.You could see his his eyes like
you could see the emotion come through.
You don't get that with this thing.
He is basically just like I said, he is just a CGI rock

(28:38):
doing the exact same voice from the bear and he has nothing to
do in the story. I mean, they, they he was.
Very under you. Yeah, he just kind of has this
crush on a school teacher, whichI mean, OK, she's good looking,
but that's, that's really all there is to him and.
Those are like the Pickles in like my Nothing burger.

(28:58):
Like exactly. Here's this cute little subplot,
like the thing in this crazy crush with this human girl or
whatever. Yeah, and I will say it, it was
kind of nice to see that he wasn't as haunted as previous
versions of the thing because. Kind of accepted.
That he did this thing. Now, obviously in the original
Fantastic Four, he really struggles with what he has

(29:21):
become. And you know, you can make this
argument that it's kind of a an analogy for body dysmorphia, but
he is much less haunted in Fantastic Four first steps.
And it was kind of nice to see alighter version of the thing,
but he just didn't really have asignificant impact on the story.

(29:42):
And we didn't really get to see him use his his powers either.
He did it, but it's just he. Did, but it was it was sort of
in a tangential way, you know what I mean?
He didn't get to throw down withanybody but he.
Said the catch phrase. He did say the catch phrase.
I do think I did like that was like one of the few running gags
I actually enjoyed was that he didn't want to say it's clobber

(30:05):
in time. Right now that was cute.
OK guys, here we go. I'll give it one more, one more
good thing, one more like, you know, praise.
Fuck, what was I gonna praise? Get it out of the way before I
get to read. No, there's the finish of it was
something to do after characterization.

(30:26):
OK. Finish your characterization.
OK, ladies and gentlemen, mothers of the world, I'm sorry.
I know you love Pedro Pascal, but this man was miscast too.
What a massive, massive misfire.I voiced concerns about this all
the way back in Episode 5, the first episode Jesse did with us.

(30:49):
I've voiced concerns about this.But you know what I said?
I'm open to being wrong because I'm a big defender of Pedro
Pascal is Joel. And I know a lot of The Last of
Us video game purists, they don't particularly like his
interpretation of Joel. I actually think it's pretty,
pretty nuanced, but Pedro is Reed.

(31:09):
I'm sorry, I just, I did not buyit.
The man was so flat. I felt like he was being
restrained. I couldn't tell if it was the
writing or the direction, but I just felt like there was
something about Pedro Pascal's performance that was just giving
me absolutely nothing. He was very wooden.

(31:31):
He didn't sell me as being the world's smartest man.
But more importantly, watching this film, I did not say to
myself, oh, that is the definitive interpretation of
Reed Richards. Because again, say what you want
about the 2005 Fantastic Four, Iactually think Ayo and Griffin

(31:56):
Griffin, he captured the part ofReed that is so damn smart that
he's incredibly stupid when it comes to social skills and and
everything else to, to the pointwhere he's so intelligent that
he's detached. But I'm not going to say, you

(32:18):
know, he's the the Reed Richards.
But I also didn't get that from Pedro Pascal.
I got nothing from Pedro Pascal.And I mentioned this before we
started recording, but I read that Pedro wanted to do the old
school Hollywood transatlantic accent.
Yeah. And I actually think that would

(32:38):
have been, that would have been pretty good, pretty great for
this movie. That would add a character.
Because they want to use this retrofuturist aesthetic.
Yeah. And it takes place.
What was it, 1962? The 60s, yeah.
Yeah, I think it was 1962. I don't know.
Somebody correct me? Yeah, but it was the 60s.
Yeah, it was the 60s, yes. That's the inspo.

(32:59):
I think that would have been a really creative choice and it
would have given Reed some character which he sorely
lacked. But my guess is the the higher
ups at Marvel didn't want Reed talking weird.
Yeah, because, because they might use them for something.
Yeah, exactly. But I, I I.

(33:20):
Don't want to see him again. I mean, I know he's going to be
in Avengers Doomsday, but I, I do not want this to be the main
line of Reed Richards, 'cause I,I just got nothing from Pedro
Pascal. He was so flat, so wooden.
He did not sell me as this guy who was carrying the burden

(33:42):
intellectually of this film. Because really at the at the
core of Fantastic Four First steps is kind of this this sort
of cosmic version of the trolleyproblem, which for those of you
that aren't familiar, it's a very basic philosophical concept
where let's say you're in a trolley car and you are on track

(34:04):
to kill 5 people, but you have an option to pull the lever,
change the course of the track and only kill one person.
That's kind of what this movie is doing in terms of its core
conflict. But Pedro did not sell me on on
someone who was weighing that kind of decision.

(34:27):
He didn't really sell me on muchof anything.
I think I wish he had done the transatlantic accent.
I wish he had just tried to do anything to liven this
performance up. Because I, I, like I said with
with Johnny sort of conflicting with the rest of the movie, I

(34:47):
think the movie as a whole, savefor Johnny, tries to take itself
so seriously that it just kind of drains the characters of
their humanity. And I think in order for
Fantastic Four first steps to work, you have to be in it with
Reed Richards. And I just wasn't.

(35:08):
Yeah, I can see you do not like Richard Pascal and those those
are those are fair critiques. Like for me, like he didn't
personally bother me that much, but I could see it.
Like, yeah, like I agree with what you're saying.
Like he did not seem like, you know, like a like a like, like a
smart or like. And there's like nothing
distinctive about this Reed Richards in his in his

(35:31):
performance. No, he's just a Reed Richards.
Yeah, like he's he, he'll probably be remembered as a read
Richards playing, playing the Fantastic Four just because of
his name, Pedro Pascal. Like, you know, when we talk
about like, oh, he's very Batman, who's a very Joker.
Oh, who's your favorite Mr. Fantastic or whatever?
He's going to be in those conversations just because his
name and shit. But I yeah, like he was not like

(35:54):
he, he didn't over, he didn't want me, but he didn't
underwhelm me either. Fair enough.
I'm. Going to give one like another
praise for this film and that's the storytelling in in that the
the jokes like I was surprised like I didn't Chuck a lot during
this film. Like there were not the the MCU
Marvel jokes like they they theyturned it back a little bit

(36:16):
here. Like there was this running gag,
which I don't think is supposed to say.
It's just a it's just like a little gag that they show is
like it's Mr. Reed, the world's smartest man, like and along
with like two other people, Johnny and the thing strongly to
put on a baby seat in the car and that.
Was the best joke in the movie. Yeah, those I'm thinking like,
yeah, I wanna make this joke. Like they make the.

(36:38):
It's a joke. Like, how many men does it take
to screw in a light bulb? And you're watching these three
men struggle to put in this babycar seat in the car.
And it's just like, you know what?
This is fucking great. This is a good scene like this.
They, they, they. Know why?
Because it's visual comedy. Yes.
And because, like, they like theMCU jokes, like the traditional,
the traditional jokes they normally make, they cut back on

(37:00):
them. So when they did those comedic
moments and shit like that, likeit was actually funny.
Like if they had done like a bunch of that little gags and
shit and then did this baby car scene scene, yeah, I don't think
it wouldn't have hit us hard. It was like that, deliberate
like, you know, like a few jokesharder.
Yeah, like I said, I think this is a more serious, Yeah, I think

(37:22):
maybe I'm stretching, but I think this is the most self
serious MCU movie since Captain America, The Winter Soldier.
OK, damn. I, I, you know, that's, that's
fair because yeah, I, I, I. Know that's a long time ago, but
it that's how it feels to me. Yeah, and like the fact that

(37:43):
like a lot of the movies have come out since like they, we, we
know what we're talking about when we say like when we mention
the Marvel humor. Yes, in this.
Movie, it did have that Marvel humor, but it was not like, you
know, overblown with it. So yeah, probably when I give
like this movie, it did not havea lot of Marvel humor.
And I think that adds to the strength that, you know, this is
its own universe and this universe that Marvel humor is

(38:06):
like, not as prevalent as in Universe 616.
Fair enough. If they bring any element from
universe 8 to 8 into 616, it should be cutting back on the
humor. Yeah, like, they're like, or
their jokes and shit. It seems like very dry.
Yeah. You know, you'll notice like.
Oh, shit. Yeah.
Like the Fantastic Four, like, knows how they act like they're
a lot drier in their humor than they, you know, in the

(38:29):
traditional, yes, universe. And that would be a cute little
nod. And so that's why I say that is
a strength. I'm going to agree with you on
that. I think that's a good small
detail to point out because I I was going pretty hard.
Pedro Pascal and Joseph Quinn. And like, you know, OK, before
we get to support our territory now, because it's been a while,

(38:52):
I want to like, just like, talk about like the general plot real
quick, like, all right, like thegeneral plot before we get to
support our territory, I'll givelike a general overview.
Is that, you know, from the trailers, you were, you know,
who the big bad guy is, is Galactus.
You know, Galactus, you know, what's he gonna do?
He's gonna, like, eat Earth and,you know, destroy all the, all

(39:14):
of its inhabitants. Oh, no.
What are the Fantastic Four going to do?
They're going to go on this adventure and try to stop big,
bad Galactus. Well, yes, obviously it doesn't
work out in space, which is whathappens mostly in Act 2.
So, you know, the battle ends upcoming back to Earth, and that's
where, you know, it's the Fantastic Four versus Galactus.

(39:35):
And you know, you're just hopingto see the Fantastic Four strive
to win at the end of the day, because that's how superhero
movies go. And that is general premise and
plot of the movie, without getting too specific into
spoiler territory. Yeah, and before we you give the
spoiler warning, I'm just gonna say even based on what you just
said, obviously, I'll get into it in more detail in a minute

(39:59):
here. But I think part of this movie's
problem is the screenplay is just generally pretty weak.
Yeah, the the the basic plot that Jesse just summarized is
very comic book. 101. And I wanted to add on to that
in that right after we saw Thunderbolts, when we made the

(40:20):
episode for Thunderbolts, we talked about like, oh man, like
this movie was great. Like they just filmed it and
like they shot it and released it and hell.
And I was like, I hope there's no reshoots for Fantastic Four.
And you were like, there alreadyis.
And I was like, no, because that's what it felt like.
There was reshoots in this film and it felt like they were like
Marvel or whoever did whoever was trying to do stuff, whoever

(40:40):
was doing this at the Marvel committee was like, you know, we
have to make this movie safe in terms of like had the jokes cut
back on the jokes. Make it, you know, totally
consistent this and that. Like they did all these little
things to make the movie safe, check all the boxes to quote UN
quote, make it a successful. Film.
Because I bet you this film willbe successful.

(41:01):
Like I think it'll reach the boxoffice numbers.
Maybe it won't be like. It's tracking lower than
Superman. Yeah, I expect it to be, but I
still expect it to do well for like, you know, compared to
like. No, it's it's doing well
compared to, say, Brave New World.
Yeah, so I expect, I expect it to do well and all that.
All that to say, like this movie, like it played it, I

(41:22):
think it played it too safe. And for that reason, like it
just adds more, you know, that it played it too safe.
That's like the salt and pepper of this like nothing burger.
It was just. Yes.
They didn't feel like they triedto do anything, like risky or
whatever. And like, yeah, sure, like maybe
like the plot was generic or yeah, no, the plot was generic.
Like they tried to do this all future vibes and this and that,

(41:43):
but like, the storytelling itself was just very
underwhelming. And yeah, spoilers, ladies and
gentlemen, spoiler territory. I think we've been talking for
like the last like 30 minutes. Yeah, around there.
It's fair to say spoiler territory moving forward.
I've given you like. You know the general premise of
the movie beforehand, giving youthe general thoughts about the

(42:05):
themes and the pros and cons andall that shit.
Let's dive into spoilers. OK, real quick, I just want to
say I, I just think you hit the nail on the head because I don't
know who I'm stealing this from.I read it online, so shout out
to that person. The single best sort of
distillation of this movie that I have read is that this is a

(42:29):
movie that's so afraid to be badthat it just ends up being fine.
Yes, and that is a perfectly wasted yes.
There might as this film. Yeah, and that's why I call that
the movie. I called it a big old nothing
burger because yeah, like it wasOK.
Like we're, we're already divinginto spoiler territory, but
like, yeah, like I told. You before spoilers.

(42:50):
We started recording like we watched Superman and we walked
out and you're like, you know what, Like I, I need to watch
this movie again. Like, you know, just like for
me, I was like, you know what? I don't mind watching the movie
again because I enjoyed it that much.
For you it was like, let me rewatch this.
Movie I needed to unpack. Yeah, like, let me unpack and
like get a second view, like second viewing of it.
Now, this movie, I did not feel like that at all.

(43:12):
I know, like the time I rewatch this movie will be when it comes
out on streaming or VOD. But yes, this movie I have like
no desire to. Like I kind of felt like that
with Thunderbolts. I would not have minded
rewatching Thunderbolts in theaters.
This movie I didn't. I don't feel like watching again
in theaters like this. It did.
This felt like very boring. Like when it ended, I genuinely

(43:33):
thought like, oh, like, that's it.
Like that's the whole movie. Yeah.
And like, let me check, like howlong was the movie?
Like 2 hours. It was one hour and 55 minutes
it could. Have been like two 2 1/2 hours
or two. Like if you're already pushing
two hours, just make it 215. Like it.
I don't know, like this movie just the way it like, like

(43:56):
Galactus never felt like a threat.
OK. I I genuinely didn't have to
like like I I and I feel like that's that's that's that's part
of the MCU at the that's that's the problem of the MCU.
I should say, let me slow down. The problem is that after
Thanos, they have like no big bad marvel superhero or bad guy

(44:17):
and that's it was supposed to beKang Kang.
Now it's not it's going to be doctor doctor van Doom, doctor
Doom. But you have Galactus and just
like the way he was just utilized in this movie, it felt
like Galactus. Galactus here felt like and

(44:38):
fucking Ant man mania where it'slike, you know, you got beaten
by ants. Like yeah, fucking Galactus.
This world eating entity got beaten on Fantastic Four.
I do think it it was a strange decision to make Galactus the
villain of this film. It could have because other
villains there is an. Argument to be made that

(44:59):
Galactus could be the villain ofan Avengers film.
Yeah, because of the threat thathe is supposed to present.
But instead they chose to make him the villain of the very
first Fantastic Four film in theMCU.
And to a certain degree I understand because he is their

(45:21):
second most popular rival. But like you said, not only does
Galactus not feel like a threat,but I would argue there are
chunks of the movie where you just kind of forget that
Galactus and Silver Surfer are in this thing at all.
Yeah. And I think that is a major

(45:41):
issue. Yeah, like I did not feel
Galactus was that big of a deal.Silver Surfer I kind of have
mixed feelings about like the way she was used.
I thought the way that she fought and like her fight scenes
were like really cool. Where where the showcase like,
you know, the Silver Surfer being the Silver Surfer.
Yeah. But when they tried to direct

(46:02):
this whole kind of like kind of romantic supply with Johnny and
like, I, I wasn't feeling it. And granted, that was crucial to
the story because Johnny figuresout her language, shows her
like, you know, like messages ofother people that speak her
language and traumatizing her. And, you know, it's because of
Johnny and what he does that that changes.

(46:24):
Like, you know, it it, it changes her heart.
And at the end of the movie, youknow, the Silver Surfer turns
against Galactus. But it felt very, like, very
predictable. Yeah.
Very predictable. Very rushed.
I didn't feel like the emotionalweight or connection between
Johnny and and Silver Surfer. Yeah, I said when we played it
too safe. Like expected you to pretend

(46:45):
that we care about their romantic interest or whatever
when they didn't really build upto it or establish it or make it
anything work. Yeah, So it's interesting that
you brought up the Johnny and Silver Surfer subplot thing,
because that's kind of the way that the movie tries to tell the
audience, hey, Johnny is a player.

(47:06):
He is a cool, sexy guy. Because they.
There's this line in the movie where Johnny says, I know what
you're thinking. Johnny likes space, Johnny likes
women. Johnny thinks they had a moment.
Yeah, but but the problem is theonly women Johnny interacts with

(47:29):
in this film are Silver Surfer and his sister.
So of course we're not really. We're just, again, we don't get
that that side of Johnny becauseit's it's kind of impossible for
him to to bring that out for obvious reasons.
But with Silver Surfer, I will say I think she was just

(47:51):
extremely underutilized. I do not care that it was
Shalala Ball and not Noran Rad. I know that the nerds were
pissed off about that. When the first trailer like like
like the the male. Silver Yeah.
So the the sort of original Silver Surfer is supposed to be
a man named Noran Rad, but Shalala Ball has been the Silver

(48:14):
Surfer in the comics before I I didn't care that they went with.
Shalalabad. Didn't they do that again in the
fan four stage remake? Whatever.
But I thought every time she wason screen, I was interested.
I was kind of in, you know, I was along for the ride every
time she was on screen. The problem is she wasn't on

(48:35):
screen enough. And like I said, there were just
portions of the movie where I forgot she was even in this
thing. That's a huge problem because
she's for the majority of the film, the secondary antagonist,
and it just never really feels like there's any stakes to this,
this supposedly world ending threat.

(48:57):
I will say similar to what you said, I liked the Silver Surfer
action. I like that we saw her actually
surfing, You know, she was shredding up some gnarly waves,
dude. I liked that, but it just it's
not a significant part of the film.

(49:18):
Right, Damn. Actually, no, I agree.
Like yeah, I don't know what it what it what it begin from the
sports. I do I just start from the
beginning or like, well, I guessI, I can't we're we're OK, we're
already in sport territory. But I'll continue with the pros

(49:42):
and I'm going to continue with the comparison, the Superman
comparison. Like I think this is this is
either either the start or there's going to be a growing
trend afterwards of like superhero movies, Just this
trend of having no origin story and just like already throwing
you like right in, right in likethe middle of like the story,

(50:03):
like liking Superman with like it's like 2 minute intro where
it dis like it's little Star Wars screen type stuff like
origin story and all that. And then at the very end of the
movie, it has like this cute little montage, like showcasing,
you know, Superman growing up inthis movie, Fantastic Four, you
know, yeah, skip the origin story.
And we we instead we get the origin story and then in a 5

(50:26):
minute, you know, like little television broadcast.
Yeah, it's like a little montage.
Yeah, it's like if, if FantasticFour, they have like took a
Carson in this one. They have Conan O'Brien, but
with black hair. Or who else can we say?
Well, see, I thought it was supposed to be.
Colbert. Ed Sullivan or Ed Sullivan, they

(50:47):
went with Ted Gilbert and that, that's just another thing that
kind of threw me about the, the world building of this.
But that's that's not a major criticism.
That's just something I thought was odd, right?
Like, yeah, what do you mean? Like they're they're in in in
universe TV station broadcast. Or I just think there's some
some kind of not inconsistencies, but some some

(51:12):
things that don't make this feelthat well defined because they
do want to push obviously the retrofuturist aesthetic.
But and it does take place in inthe 60s, but I just think there
are some sort of like odds and ends in the movie that make it

(51:34):
feel slightly disjointed. Right.
Yeah, fair enough. OK, I have been banging on this
movie so hard, so I'm going to bring up something that I really
liked about this Fantastic Four movie.
What? Did you really like about this
Fantastic Four movie? For the majority of the second

(51:54):
act, they go into space and thiswhole sequence basically unfolds
like Apollo 13 or Interstellar. I thought the the entire space
sequence, the shuttle, the launch, the the actual travel,

(52:16):
confronting Galactus for the first time, trying to escape the
Silver Surfer, all of this was genuinely exhilarating.
It was the best part of the movie.
I thought it looked the best visually.
It was the most exciting part. I thought it was the most
elucidating in terms of character, but the rest of the

(52:40):
movie just never, ever reaches these heights.
I also liked that this sequence in particular was grounded in
some actual science because as they're trying to escape the
Silver Surfer, they have this plan to slingshot around this
this black hole. And that is that is rooted in

(53:03):
real physics. I can't remember which which
shuttle they actually did this with, but you can use the
gravitational pull of the moon as you are coming back to Earth
to sort of like slingshot yourself back into orbit.
So that's rooted in real science.

(53:23):
And I was like, oh, this is thisis cool.
Yeah. But the movie just never gets
there again. Yeah, this movie peaked in this
second act yeah, which is like you know, like not in a good way
cuz you know you're supposed to,you know, reach your climax by
native act 2, but like yeah, no,this I agree with you like that
that is a pro or like another compliment I will give this film

(53:44):
like the the space sequence. Oh yeah.
It's fucking great. That was amazing, the whole
thing. Was amazing, yeah.
Where you see like, you know, the, the like the, the, the, the
thing navigating the ship, Johnny on the fucking rockets,
like, you know, firing away, like learning how to shoot,
like, you know, going through this, this warp, warp, warp
tunnel zone or. Whatever.

(54:05):
And the fact that Reed told Sue that they need gravity in order
for her to deliver the baby. Yeah.
And then like seeing like Mr. Fantastic, like just stretching
on the ship. It's like, all right, all of
them are utilizing their power or him telling like, hey, Sue,
like turn the, turn the ship invisible.
Like, yeah, I know. Like that seemed like that whole
scene, the sequence was yeah peak and was very colorful.
Like we were in space yes, And we saw other colors besides

(54:28):
pastel, like we saw like, you know, like explosions and shit
like like we. Saw the vibrance of space.
Yes, it was. Great.
And then? Especially when they were
traveling at lightspeed. I did think it was a little
goofy that they had a setting ontheir ship that was just
basically faster than the speed of light.

(54:49):
Because I think at one point Bensays taking us to FTL, you know,
like a acronym for Faster than light.
And I thought I didn't. Know what that mean?
I was just like. I thought, OK, that's a little
goofy, but everything else in that sequence, I was like, Oh my
goodness. Like I was actually excited.
That was the one part of the movie where I felt like I was

(55:13):
actually thrilled because I saidearlier in the show, especially
the early Fantastic Four comics,I would argue they are these
kind of more adventure scientists 1st and superhero
2nd. And this was, I think, the first
movie to sort of showcase that, in particular with this

(55:34):
sequence, with the Fantastic Four going out into space, not
as part of the origin story, butas part of an expedition for
understanding, because I don't think they went there with the
explicit intention of defeating Galactus.
They they were to. Gather information.

(55:54):
Yeah. They were trying to learn more
about this threat that their planet was facing.
The the this this worked for me for so many reasons.
But then, oh, my goodness. As soon as they come back to
Earth, all of the wind that was in those proverbial sails just
dies. Yep.

(56:16):
Goes back, goes back to being muted.
Yeah, hold this. But yeah, there was like
something I didn't like. Another comparison to Superman.
Like you know how the people in Superman turned off Superman
real quick, like after one, like, you know, fake news video
and like they turned on him realquick that Yep, that also

(56:38):
happened in this movie, but you know, without the fake news.
It was just like, oh, the peoplewere frustrated because as I
mentioned earlier, spoilers, SueStorm has a baby because I guess
in the beginning of the film they announced it right away.
Like, oh, like her and Reed Richards, like.
That's the first scene in the movie.
Yeah, like, like, yeah, she. Find all the pregnancy.

(56:59):
Tests yeah, but she's pregnant. It's like all right, cool.
And from there, like, you know, family, they introduce like the
core concept of family and family is like the through line
throughout this entire film, which is shown evident with like
Sue Storm being like, like, you know, like the core of the movie
where like, you know, you see her have like individual
interactions with everybody, with the thing, with Johnny,
with Reed Richards. And even then she has like her

(57:20):
own individual moment with like the mob outside, outside in the
tower or whatever, somewhere like at that close to the end of
the film. But at some point in the film,
like, well, you know, they go, they they confront Galactus.
Galactus is like, I won't eat Earth if you give me your baby.
And you know, since Stormy was like, no, you can't have my

(57:42):
baby. And they run the fuck off from
that. They fuck off from like, you
know, Galactus the ship and go back to Earth, tell the citizens
like, yeah, no, he wanted our baby.
And we said, no, the citizens, you know, the human beings, like
turned on them so quick. It's like you guys forget what
the Fantastic Four did for you. It's like when Superman
happened, like, you know, you guys forget what Superman did

(58:03):
for you guys. Like right away the people
turned on like the Fantastic Four, like give up your baby for
all of us, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I thought I was very, I mean, I guess if it shows mob mentality
or whatever. But later on, the storm has
like, you know, the speech that she gives you, I'll we'll stop a
way to, you know, not sacrifice my baby and not sacrifice you

(58:26):
guys. And that's good enough for
humanity. Humanity is like, all right.
Yeah. That works for us.
All right. Cool.
Yeah. I didn't like that.
OK, this is kind of a nitpick, but this scene, this is part of
like one of my issues with Reed's characterization.
They come back from trying to negotiate with Galactus.

(58:49):
They have the press conference and instead of just, I don't
know, maybe lying or filibustering or just coming up
with some excuses. Are we going to be OK?
The crowd asked. And, and, and Reed just says,
well, we didn't defeat him. We try to negotiate.
Turns out he's a tough negotiator.

(59:11):
The price was too high. I, I just, I'm sorry, but no.
But this thing is supposed to think 20 steps ahead for every
eventuality. And I realize this is kind of
nitpicky, but it it does somewhat tie into the
characterization of Reed. It does.
I just thought it was very odd that they had him come out and

(59:32):
say, well, we didn't do it. And you know, who knows if we're
going to be OK? It wasn't that too.
It was the fact that they asked him like, are we going to be OK?
And he was like, I don't know, like, wait, you're Reed
Richards, You're supposed to know.
Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like.
Your one of your biggest. That's your whole.
Thing, yeah. Like your characterizations,
like Tony Stark would have had an answer.

(59:53):
He would have bullshitted an answer maybe.
And then later on when the with the adventures and confidence
being like, guys, I don't know what the fuck you're gonna do or
whatever, but he would have given like an answer.
But Reed Richards? I don't know.
Yeah, this Reed needs some mediatraining or something.
Yeah, because even if Tony didn't have the answer, like you
said, he would have, even if he just bullshitted his way through

(01:00:14):
it, that's better than saying I don't know.
Yeah, like they made it like they, it felt like they just
paid. Not like, not, I don't want to
say it. They just had like, Pedro
Pascal, like, you know, oh, he'ssuper smart because he's writing
on a whiteboard and he's stretching, you know, like
writing all these equations because he's so smart and

(01:00:36):
brainy. He's trying to figure out
teleportation because you know. With an egg.
Because he's so smart and brainy, but it's like that's how
you're going to convey that he'ssmart.
Like that's not conveying like smartness, like smartness would
have been like him, like coming up with something quick, quick
waited on the battlefields or whatever.
Like there were moments I liked yes, where like Mr. Fantastic

(01:00:58):
took control, where he would be like, hey, Johnny, go do this
thing, do this, Sue Storm, do this or whatever.
Like he, he, he, he took leadership and he, he directed
like, you know, like the team, like as a unit, which there were
some teams like that and I did like that, but as him
individually, like Reed Richardstrying to be smart or whatever.

(01:01:19):
I, I he wasn't selling it and I wasn't buying it.
I wasn't buying it either. I hate to say it, but it's the
truth. There were just so many.
There were just so many moments where I just refused to buy that
this was the smartest man in theworld.
But it's funny that you said we're supposed to believe Reed

(01:01:41):
is smart because he's writing equations on a chalkboard.
Well, according to Goodwill Hunting, that is how you
communicate intelligence. Just write a bunch of jibberish
on the chocolate. Yeah, just write a bunch of
equations and people. Think you're smart?
I don't know. But OK, so I looked at my notes

(01:02:02):
and I've I figured it out. So I said it felt odd that there
was just something with the world building that that made it
feel strange to me. OK, Because again, we're talking
about retrofuturist aesthetic 1960s.
And just there is, like I said, there's there's there's just

(01:02:27):
such a flatness to all of the drama here in this film, even
the drama that, like I said, hasto do with those interpersonal
dynamics between our 4 main characters.
And this is what threw me, OK, because Matt Shackman directed
this, who was kind of the creator and directed the

(01:02:50):
majority of the episodes for Wanda Vision.
So your favorite show? Yes, to some degree.
There should be like a sense of familiarity there.
And I there was to an extent, but here's my issue here.
So in one division, the series was kind of winking at the the

(01:03:11):
sort of modes of entertainment from the 50s, sixties and 70s
with the sitcoms. But in this movie, it's just
1962 in an alternate universe. So how are they supposed to act?
Because everyone does feel so stilted and wooden.

(01:03:32):
Even mole man, I thought his performance was just off.
Like he was just kind of off kilter.
So like, what is what is the purpose here?
Like, are we supposed to be watching the the animated
version of the Fantastic Four, but live action?
Because they they make several references to the animated show

(01:03:53):
in this movie. Yeah.
Which is so nod. Yeah, it's just, I think that's
really what it was for me, is that in one division it was a
clever framing device. But here it's just an alternate
universe wearing this aesthetic is set dressing.
But then because everyone just feels so limp, I'm just like, is

(01:04:17):
this, is this supposed to be part of it?
Like it's, you know, like I don't know that there I, there
was just a dissonance there for me.
Right, I think it's part of like, you know, like Marvel
playing it safe or this this movie playing it safe.
But I don't know if that's like if this is something they did
with the reshoots, 'cause it felt like this whole movie was

(01:04:37):
like tonally like that where like they played it too safe
from the characterization. Like Reed Richard's character
were like too safe of a too safeof a performance.
Where like if, like, you know, Pedro Pascal was allowed to add,
to add that accent, that transatlantic accent.
Oh my God, that would have givensome like, you know, little
quirk or like something to remember it.

(01:04:58):
Would have livened things. Yeah, it would have given, like
it would have made this, you know, it would be like the risk
would have been so minimal. But again, like this movie is
trying to play it safe, that it's, it's just fine.
And I think like that, that that's another element.
And like like that, like you tryto play it safe.
And this is where it suffered because of that.
Yeah. I mean, I hope what I just said

(01:05:21):
makes sense. But yeah, there's just, there's
just such a weird tone to this movie.
And I don't mean the the tone inthe sense that it takes itself
more seriously than most MCU films.
I mean, there is just this, thisoverall.
Yeah. Like, like dulness to the movie.

(01:05:44):
I mean, you said it's muted and it's not just visually, it's
muted in the performances and and just everything about about
it. It's just very odd.
And I mean, I just, I couldn't quite figure out why, right?
You know, but, but I do agree that, you know, if Pedro was

(01:06:06):
allowed to do that transatlanticaccent, it would have at least
given this film some character. Because as it is, I, I really
think Sue is the only character that you, well, that I was able
to, to sort of connect with and buy into.
I just, I don't know, this was avery strange movie.

(01:06:28):
And it's particularly strange because as much as I am
criticizing this movie, I didn'tthink it was bad.
No, it's not a bad movie like. That, I mean, I didn't walk away
from this movie thinking that itwas the Eternals.
Yeah. You know, but, and it's, it's

(01:06:48):
also, it's, you know, when I walked, when we walked out of
the theater, I wasn't upset. I wasn't angry, I was just kind
of actually bemused by how strange.
I was very well. All this was yeah, Yeah.
And you know it. It's not an abomination like Fan

(01:07:11):
Forstick, right? So I, I think that's why I just
feel so puzzled here. Yeah.
Because I, I just can't quite connect to anybody in this film
apart from Sue and I, I can't really sort of find the angle
into this movie. I mean, so many people are

(01:07:35):
praising this movie and I've noticed a lot of critics, mostly
critics for publications like The New York Times, Indie Wire,
Roger and Ebert. But Oh my goodness, so many
people. The first thing they lead with

(01:07:55):
is that this is a a stand alone Marvel film, which I agree is
nice that it it it's not overly connected to the MCU and that
you don't need to do a bunch of homework to watch this movie.
But at the same time, if that's the first thing you're going to
praise this movie for, I don't think this movie actually does

(01:08:19):
too many things all that well. If your first instinct is to say
Oh well, at least you can watch this without having to watch
10,000 Disney Plus shows and four other Marvel movies.
Damn, why do you feel like that?Elaborate.
Because I just that is, I'm sorry, but that's the bare

(01:08:43):
minimum for a film like. But these aren't films.
These are movies. OK fair enough, but that is the
bare minimum for a movie. Most movies are stand alone
stories, even sequels. Yeah, you're kind of, I'm kind
of treading into deeper water here, but even sequels,

(01:09:05):
especially good sequels, they feel like a continuation of the
story of the first movie. But at the same time they they
should be able to stand on theirown as a self-sufficient story.
I think it I was gonna say a good example of this is Toy
Story 2. You can watch Toy Story 2
without having seen the first one and I would I would argue

(01:09:27):
it's just as good it holds up. But yeah, Godfather 2,
obviously, because you have those inter intersecting plot
lines. But I'm sorry, that's that's
just the bare minimum for a movie.
And if the first thing we're going to praise Fantastic Four
First Steps for is being a standalone movie, that tells me

(01:09:53):
there's really not all that muchholding this movie.
Together. Now you're just being a hater.
I don't think I am though. Like that that cuz I think that
that is a positive. Well, I guess like your nitpick
is if that's like the first positive that comes to mind, but
you know, there could be more positives people have.

(01:10:15):
Seems like you have a problem with this particular positive.
Well, I just think that. 'Cause this is an MC at the end
of the day. Like we know this is an MCU
film. It's kind of like we know what
we're getting into. Like people know what, yes, what
they're getting into. No, I agree.
So it did like, as people would say, like the I'm, I'm, I'm
playing devil's advocate here, but like, as people are saying,

(01:10:36):
like it is kind of like a breathof fresh air to, you know, watch
a watch a new movie where like you, don't you, you didn't have
to watch, you know, like 10,000 TV shows that you said to
understand, like the premise of the show or the the movie.
I hear what you're saying, I really do.
But, and I know it sounds like I'm just beating this movie into

(01:10:56):
the ground, probably to anybody listening to this, I know I'm
putting a target on my back. But I'll be there with you right
now. Here's the problem.
Here's the the issue for me here, apart from everything that
I've just said in the past hour or so, this movie, I think just

(01:11:17):
really struggles because even though I would I, I, I think on
the surface I agree that it's good that this is a stand alone
movie. I think the real sort of success
or genius, I'm using air quotes here.
The real genius of the MCU experiment was pushing towards

(01:11:41):
this, this, this grand narrativebecause it's going to sound like
I just don't like Marvel movies.I do.
I mean, a long time ago, people used to call me an MCU bot.
I used to get comments on YouTube saying I was an MCU tard
because this was around the sametime that I was criticizing the
Zack Snyder DC movies. So people used to call me like

(01:12:06):
MCU shill. So I, it's not that I just don't
like these movies. It's that I think part of the
charm of the MCU was I'm, I'm sorry, guys, but I, you know, I
think we're a lot of us are blinded by nostalgia here.
I don't think a lot of MCU filmsunto themselves are great

(01:12:30):
movies. I think the real greatness is
that you can take all these sortof singles and double s and push
towards something like Avengers Infinity War.
That's the real sort of genius of the film making experiment
that is the MCU. And here with Fantastic Four,

(01:12:51):
people are all of a sudden saying, Oh, well, it's great
that this is a stand alone film,but then we get that God awful
mid credits scene and I have no idea where we're going with
this. I'm sorry, I just don't, I don't
care. I'm not excited and I just can't
be bothered to get excited because we all know what the the

(01:13:13):
next movie is. It's Avengers Doomsday and I
just, I don't care. And I, I honestly have
absolutely no idea how we're what this movie's even gonna be
like. How did we get here?
Because nothing up until this point has has foreshadowed

(01:13:34):
Doctor Doom. I mean, with, with, with Thanos,
we get that Stinger at the end of the first Avengers.
We get him as sort of a tertiaryantagonist, Guardians of the
Galaxy slow burn. We get, you know, we, we
establish him as a threat and welearn about him a little bit,
Not not a lot, but just enough, you know, to, to make us

(01:13:55):
invested. But we I mean, what is this?
I mean, this movie is so insulated in its own universe,
but then we get that that mid credits scene that is leading us
to this next big crossover. And I just what what like what
it what is this about? What's happening right?

(01:14:18):
Yeah, I, I, I was not a fan of that.
I was also like, not a fan of like going back to Thunderbolts.
Thunderbolts. I complained about this on the
episode when we did the episode for Thunderbolts regarding the
the the post credits scene at the end of the film after all
the credits where the show of Fantastic Four rocket, you know,
come into space. So I expected, you know, that's

(01:14:41):
be very relevant in the next film.
It wasn't unless of course, thatscene in Thunderbolts is taking
place right before doomsday and this is going to be like this
again. That scene takes place after,
you know, the four years later in the in the in the end
credits, in the mid credits scene for for Fantastic Four.

(01:15:02):
Like, you know, it's gonna take place after that film or
whatever. But if yeah, like I understand
what you're saying and I will jump on the bandwagon and like
talk shit because like. OK.
I'm just glad you understood it though, because oh.
No, I guess you I. Realized that what I the way
that I was presenting it soundedpretty scattershot.
Yeah. But yeah, because, because like

(01:15:23):
the way they introduced, like they hinted at the Fantastic
Four at the end of Thunderbolts,which was a scene, a post great
scene that I did not enjoy because I also felt like, you
know, Thunderbolts was like a self-contained story.
Stand alone movie, Yeah. Within the 616 universe, yes, So
I like that and so they try to do it again with the the
Fantastic Four. But you know, they hinted at it,

(01:15:46):
they hinted at Fantastic Four atthe end of Thunderbolts and then
they do nothing. Then then Fantastic Four first
steps comes out and it's its ownself isolated universe that has
nothing to do with 616 until thevery end.
Post end credits scene. We're kind of hinting like art,
we know that's Robert Downey Junior's Doctor Doom.

(01:16:07):
And I thought like, for sure youwould have got like a little
cameo or something, you know, something cutesy or nerd like
how they did Thanos, like that short little like I'll do.
It myself, yeah. Boom, Nope.
They just just see the back of and he and.
He's holding the mask, which is sacrilege.
In the comics, Doctor Doom wouldnever take off his mask.

(01:16:31):
So obviously, like this is gonnalike join in like with the
event, like the mainstay 616 universe.
But as you said, like it, it felt very disjointed, like it
didn't connect with it, especially like towards the end
of the movie. Another Superman comparison I
wanted to draw in was last episode you I'm I'm not going to

(01:16:54):
say complained, but to you know,just to to just talk shit.
You complained about Superman, you know, having too much like
the plot. It was too much.
You tried to do too much. Fantastic Four is the plot was
very basic. It did too little and I think
that goes against what the wholeconsistency.

(01:17:15):
There we go. That whole thing in regards to
like, they played it too safe sothat the plot was very simple.
It had a very basic plot and they followed it from point A to
point B to Point C Yes, whereas like Superman, it did too much.
I genuinely preferred the Superman approach of doing too
much and, you know, introducing a lot of concepts, but, you

(01:17:37):
know, treating the audience as like adults, like, hey, like,
you know, on a rewatch, you'll get it.
Or if you're a super calming nerd, you're going to appreciate
like all these little like little things.
Easter eggs being thrown in withthis movie.
Even the Easter eggs I felt werelike weren't that much or many.
I'm glad that you called me out because I want, you know, even

(01:18:00):
though we're not getting a ton of comments on YouTube yet, but
let's say retroactively a bunch of people come after me for
this. I'm glad you're holding me
accountable because I did complain about that.
Yes. When we watched Superman for the
first time, that was part of thereason I wanted to watch it
again because I, I just felt overwhelmed.
I was telling myself that was a lot.

(01:18:22):
And I'm not sure it was a lot ina good way.
But like you said, Fantastic Four is very bare bones.
It's like someone took a screen writing one O 1 class and that's
how they wrote the script for Fantastic Four.
First steps, I would say, even though I sort of levied it as a

(01:18:43):
criticism against Superman, which that episode will be
coming out Monday. Yep.
Yeah. Well, by the time they hear
that, by the time. They hear this episode, it's
going to be out already. You're right.
I'm sorry. I'm, I'm losing the, I'm losing
the plot here. But the point is, even though I
did levy that as a criticism against Superman, the reason I

(01:19:06):
would sort of definitely prefer Superman over Fantastic Four is
because at least Superman has something on its mind.
I mean, Superman attempts to saya lot of things and comment
about a lot of a real world modern issues.
You know, I said in the Supermanepisode, I think an interesting

(01:19:27):
way to look at it is almost as sort of a, a self insert for
James Gunn because he, he is this this public figure who went
through this period of time where he he was confronted with
something from his past and he was sort of pushed out of, of, I

(01:19:50):
don't know how you want to phrase it, but out of sort of
decent society. And he, yeah, he was fired by
Disney and everything and just castigated for it.
That that's an interesting read of Superman.
I'm not saying it's the right one, but I think there's an it's
an interesting commentary. And obviously, like you, you

(01:20:10):
alluded to it. I'm not going to get into the
weeds here because I'm not. I don't want to get lynched.
But I mean, James Gunn, you know, he he attempts to look at
things like immigration and foreign policy and the villain
is a tech bro billionaire. I mean, I mean, if you can't see

(01:20:31):
what's going on there, I don't Idon't know what to tell you.
Like Fantastic Four first steps.Obviously the story has themes.
Every story has themes but it's just Fantastic Four does not
have enough on its mind. It's so bare bones to the point
where it just doesn't doesn't doanything for me like you said.

(01:20:55):
Yep. It felt like an overcorrection
to Brave New World and like someminor tweaking to after
Thunderbolts because like obviously an overcorrection
after Brave New World after how it performed, but then it's
obviously still some tweaks at the Thunderbolts seeing how it
performed. And I'm actually, I read that
like Thunderbolt, Thunderbolts did not perform as well in the

(01:21:16):
in the box office, which does sad in my heart because that was
sucks. It's still the best Marvel film
to come out this year. Yes, it's the best Marvel film
in years. Yeah, like that's such a
genuinely good Marvel movie. Yeah.
Because we You can argue about how Thunderbolts handled the
mental health messaging all you want, but the fact is, at least

(01:21:38):
that movie, you know, had that on its mind.
Yeah. And it did take like that quote
UN quote risk yeah, you know, for a Marvel film tackling like
something as like heavy as like depression and like yeah, like
those type like that ideology like it was it was it was pretty
good like for that Marvel film or movie.
Exactly. But Fantastic Four just bland.

(01:22:00):
I it was a it was a whole big old nothing burger, just.
Very It was a whole big old nothing burger.
Yep. Yeah.
But OK, maybe I shouldn't compare it to Superman.
I still will, but let me compareit to something else.
Brave New World. I think I genuinely had more fun
hate watching Brave New World than I did this movie because I

(01:22:22):
walked into this movie theater like I was genuinely like
looking forward to this movie. I know cast was on the record
saying that like he's. Not gonna watch it?
We're gonna. Watch it with us.
Which he didn't because we wouldhave complained, but like I was
genuine. We were extremely quiet the
whole time. And like, I was gonna say like
when, like I mentioned on that episode, like, I was like, I

(01:22:44):
told them like, I'll shut up. I'm just gonna watch the film.
I think the only thing I want toleaned over to to say to you was
I don't think I've ever seen Suethat be that powerful.
I think that was the only thing that.
Yeah, I was like the only compartment.
The projector went out. Yeah, no, that was bro.
That, that scared me, I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah, like story time, but we went.

(01:23:04):
To not scared as but like, scared that we were gonna have
to postpone watching it. Yeah, but like story, you know,
like little tangent, what happened is we saw them, we went
to watch the movie and like somewere havoc through the film
during like the cool, the great part, the great part, the space
scene and all that shit. The protection just cuts off and
it's just the audio. Luckily, someone went to, you

(01:23:25):
know, talk to like the guys and they rewound it, fixed it and we
continued watching the film. But in terms of like, you know,
being immersed in the experience, I was not there.
And maybe like, that might be like a, a feeling that I have,
like maybe why I'm, I'm not intothe, I didn't enjoy this movie
as much as other people did because yeah, my, our movie

(01:23:48):
experience was like, not that great.
No, it wasn't. And ironically, like this one,
like more people turned out. More of this yes than Superman.
That broke my heart. Which is interesting.
I think it says more about our like our local community and
like what superheroes they prefer.
Or maybe like they either they were tired of DC or they just
preferred Marvel. But like I did not get good good

(01:24:11):
seats this time around. Unfortunately, I think they've
been conditioned to sort of not trust DC that's.
The problem, which is fair, yeah, but I I still think
Superman is probably gonna win overall at the box office.
Like first weekend opening? Weekend, I think Superman's
going to win in terms of legacy,yeah.
Well, that too. But I also think box office, I
think it's gonna outperform Fantastic Four.

(01:24:32):
Yeah, I don't think. Fantastic Four is hitting what
Superman did, but yeah, like we'll have to see.
We'll know tomorrow, Tomorrow Eastern Time.
I don't know what what the exacttime is, but we'll know Eastern.
Yeah, by episode 22, because. We live on real time, which is
specific West Coast best. Yeah, exactly.

(01:24:55):
But OK, so you brought up the crowd, and this is something I
said before we started recording.
I kind of feel like at this point, because this movie was
such a wet noodle of a movie, right?
I feel like the MCU is going to their DC EU phase.

(01:25:18):
What do you mean by that? They're directionless.
They you can't really count on them to have any sort of
consistency. It doesn't feel like anyone is
really driving the ship so to speak, even though Feige is
desperately trying. But also the majority of the
films just aren't resonating with audiences.
And for the first time since I think it was since Ant Man

(01:25:42):
Quantum Mania, people just aren't showing up.
Like these movies aren't making the money they once used to.
And only they're only seen success critically and
financially kind of here and there.
And that's very much how it was with DCI Mean, you know, critics
just completely lambasted BVS, rightfully so, in my opinion.

(01:26:10):
But then, you know, just a couple years later, we get
Wonder Woman that almost breaks a billion.
It's, it's reviewed very well bycritics, again, deservedly so in
my opinion. And then you you have more duds
with the the Justice League, butthen you get.
Aquaman. You get Aquaman, which somehow
makes a billion dollars and people clearly liked it.

(01:26:33):
They liked the dumb fun of it, but it was just kind of this up
and down trajectory. And I think you're seeing that
with the MCU. Like, you know, nobody liked The
Marvels, but oh, wait a minute, there's Thunderbolts.
You know, Brave New World was a dud, but you know, the general
consensus for Fantastic Four is pretty positive.
Just because it didn't really work for me, because it's not

(01:26:55):
indicative of like the cultural pulse of this film.
This one hit for the culture like this one is not a dud.
I think I. Don't know why, Yeah.
Me neither, but like like the general audience is like this
one, this one hit. But like I said earlier, I I
genuinely I had more fun, like hate watching brave New world

(01:27:16):
and earlier this year I predicted or I said, like, you
know what my list is going to be.
I think I don't know. I think object objectively my
list is still the same. It's still Thunderbolt,
Fantastic Four and Captain America.
Brave New World in terms of objectively like where like the
better movies, but personally, subjectively I would rather

(01:27:37):
rewatch Brave New World than rewatch this movie because at
least Brave New World like as bad as movie as that is and
trust me, it is a fucking train wreck fucking movie.
It's such a bad train wreck thatlike I can't help but I hate
watching and enjoy it. Fantastic fours, though, It's
just like I said, I keep on saying it's a fucking nothing

(01:27:58):
burger and put all the salt and pepper you want a nothing burger
still tastes like a nothing burger somehow.
Sorry, I'll just like the final thing I was going to say is just
and then that's what this move felt like.
It just it had a lot of things going for it.
And I can see like objectively, like why people are going to
enjoy this film and and like praise it So.

(01:28:19):
But subjectively, I just felt like this was very just boring
and dull, just a safe Marvel movie, which maybe that's what
they needed just to make a safe movie, to make the money to make
the money back and like keep on going.
But yeah, and like you said, I guess I'm going to have one more
point. I guess like you said, like

(01:28:40):
they're kind of directionless right now.
And I think ever since, you know, the firing of like just
pivoting from Kang and firing of.
Jonathan Majors. Thank you, Jonathan Majors.
Like, they've been trying to like, you know, find their next
big baddie and it's going to be.And they ended up pivoting to
Robert Downey Junior and Doctor Doom.
You know, they're. They're pretty pinning it all on

(01:29:01):
that. Like, you know, hoping that
joke. Yeah.
Like this is going to be like, what drives us back, you know,
puts his back on like, on that cultural, Like how like that
cultural like, guys. Yeah.
Because like, yeah, I am not excited for the next Avengers
movie. Even after this movie, the teeth
dead. Like, oh, Fantastic Four, you'll
be back and you know, Avengers Doomsday or whatever.

(01:29:23):
Yeah, but I I just don't care. No, I don't.
I don't care at all either. And, and that's what I mean,
that's that's why I think the whole praise for this movie
being a stand alone film just doesn't make that much sense to
me. Because again, for one, that is
the absolute bare minimum for a movie.

(01:29:45):
Not even a film, just a movie. Right.
Because you're right, this is not a film.
But the point is, I, I just feellike the MCU has become so bad
that people are now looking at something like Fantastic Four
and convincing themselves that it's great.
And I have been extremely hard on this movie.

(01:30:09):
But I will say it's probably the, the quote UN quote best
Fantastic Four movie by default.But that's because it doesn't
have much competition. But I say that, but we open this
by saying we probably prefer theO Five team, like that's my

(01:30:30):
preference. But I I like in terms of the
overall story, the mechanics of the film and just how it's put
together. This one, yeah, is the best.
But look at its competition. It's it's it's Fantastic Four,
it's rise of the Silver Surfer, it's fan 4 stick.

(01:30:51):
But I I just don't think this this is really all that great.
Like Jesse said, you you can, you know, dress up the nothing
burger, but at at the end of theday, it's still a nothing
burger. I mean, I've used this in so
many of the past few episodes, but this movie just has no
sauce. Yeah.
I mean, it's completely sauceless.

(01:31:12):
Yep. It's a burger without the sauce.
Yeah, even worse. Like it's a nothing burger but
with no sauce, no seasoning, no sauce.
It's just just terrible. I mean, it's not terrible, it's
just bland. They cut the best shot in this
movie from the movie which was there.
There was a shot in the trailer of Johnny flying up to space,

(01:31:35):
likely when he met the. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
He he struck this pose, but likethis warm screen moment, he was
backlit by the sort of sun, sortof like, you know, casting a
glow on the earth, right? And they cut that shot from the
movie. That would have been a great
shot. The the the only shot in this
film that I thought, oh, I like that was when they mounted the

(01:31:58):
camera on the fantastic car early on in the movie when they
first head off to meet Silver Surfer when she arrives at the
beginning of the film. That was the only shot where I
thought, oh, that's kind of interesting.
Everything else, I mean, it's just it's you're shooting for
coverage. Yeah.

(01:32:22):
What's sad is I really want to take this movie like I'm talking
shit and having like I have a lot to talk about, but it's it's
just shit talking and just just to shit talk because like again,
this movie is not bad, but I just I I was expecting like a
good time and I did not get a good time.
I movie ended and I was like, that's it.

(01:32:45):
That's how you choose to resolvethe movie.
Like, I, I didn't feel like the whole big climactic battle was
that climactic. Granted, it was cool seeing
like, you know, Sue Storm being a fucking badass and like, you
know, overpowering Galactus. She was super mom.
Yeah, like in that in that scene, like it's like OK, in
this universe, Sue Storm is likethe most powerful being ever

(01:33:08):
because she can like fucking subdue Galactus all by herself.
This world eating entity, Sue Storm.
She got it. Which OK, cool, cool to her make
her that'll pee. But it just again, it weakens
like the whole like Galactus as like a disimposing figure when
you you can like defeat him justlike that.

(01:33:29):
It's like again, it's like it's what Kang was in Ant man quantum
mania. It's just you.
Got a shit rocked by ants. Ant man and ants yeah yeah,
that's what this fall like with Galactus like you got your shit
rocked by invisible woman and that's no knock on invisible
woman. No, like you are a planet eating
entity. The fuck are you doing?

(01:33:50):
Getting pushed back by invisiblewaves?
But. So OK, I'm not sure where to
take this because I think there's a couple directions we
could go from what you just mentioned, but I'll say we'll
get into, we'll save the themes for last.
Maybe Galactus. This dude just like drops into

(01:34:13):
New York, walks through a few streets and then he's out of
there. I mean, that's, that's the
climax. It was so dumb because I mean,
first of all, you're a fucking planet eating entity.
I keep on saying that throughoutthe episode and.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to interrupt you, but let's just
the plan too to get him out of here.

(01:34:35):
We are convincing this all powerful planet eating entity.
Please just cross this giant glowing line into this
conveniently shaped triangle with pillars.
That's not. Suspicious.
That was so dumb, too. Yeah, even like, yeah.
So like their plan was like, hey, we're gonna use our baby to
like like as bait to get Galactus to come down here, you

(01:34:59):
know, to get off this, you know,world eating ship to come that
the. Drill.
He lives in a drill. To come down and, you know, in
his like little avatar physical form and come pick up this baby
in the middle of like empty New York with this big ass triangle
that's clearly marked. Like, you know, like, hey, this

(01:35:21):
is a trap. This is a trap.
Like, yes, it's like, yo, you read Richards, this is your
smartest planet. You couldn't even, like,
camouflage the area where he's going to teleport to.
Yeah, but no, they didn't. And I just thought that whole
final sequence I thought was dumb, just.
It was incredibly dumb. Yeah, like Galactus coming down

(01:35:43):
and like, fighting down, fighting them on his like,
superficial level. Like, I'd never felt like
Galactus was a threat. I felt like he was a threat,
maybe back when they were on thespace.
When they first confronted. Him, yeah, like, oh, OK.
He he kind of looks threatening and imposing, even though I
think the CGI is bad. It's a quantum.
No, it was. It was bad quantum.
Mania bad. I've seen so many people say

(01:36:04):
Galactus was great. Some people have even said that
yeah, he's imposing. He looks scary.
Nope. No, he was never scary.
If you look at his face, it looks like a rubber.
Yep, it feels like the best PS4 game generated ever galactic
skin of ever. Yes, yes, this is how I would

(01:36:26):
expect. You know Marvel versus Capcom.
You know the fighting game on the PS-5.
I was about to say Marvel Rivals.
Or that too. Yeah, that works too.
Like this how I would expect Galactics to look like.
But I've seen Lord of the Rings like the CGI look better than
and that movie came out like 20 years ago.
I've seen better CGI in the first Transformers movie.

(01:36:47):
Oh Jeff, Oh my God, they should have got Michael Bay as as a
producer like he he would have like help help them with their
CGI tell. Me.
Those Autobots don't hold up. No, they do like that's they
look really fucking great. Lactose he did not like, again,
like you said, sauceless like. Yeah.
Wasn't it? I didn't feel like he was that

(01:37:09):
imposing or threatening. And then his all.
The whole plan to get him to come down and fight and fight
him down there on their level was stupid.
And then I mentioned this beforewe started recording, but you
notice it as well. So it's, I don't think it's a
nitpick. There's some serious scaling
issues with Galactus. He is supposed to be that, you

(01:37:29):
know, this massive towering planet eating entity.
And when he jumps down from his little throne or whatever from
his drill home, he lands in the Hudson, he stands up, clearly
bigger than the Statue of Liberty.

(01:37:50):
He walks over to Manhattan. And then he kind of picks up
some of the earth, which like inin the context of the scene,
he's scooping up a few trees andapparently his hand is only big
enough to hold about 3 trees. But we're also supposed to

(01:38:10):
believe then in the subsequent scenes that he somehow towers
over the New York City skyline. I mean, I just don't understand
what's so difficult for Marvel and Feige to just put Ralph
Innison, who is a fantastic actor and has one of the most

(01:38:31):
intimidating voices in Hollywood, put him in an actual
costume and then do some miniature work.
Like, why is that so hard? Look at the miniature work in a
classic film. Maybe you've heard of it.
It came out in 1997. It's known by the name of
Titanic. I hate to tell you this guys,

(01:38:53):
but that ship, all of it wasn't real.
No way. You're telling me they didn't
really sink a ship in the ocean?No.
What? Next thing you're gonna tell me
is like the the pirate ships in Pirates of Caribbean are fake,
and they're not really in the. Ocean I hate to tell you, but
they're really not No another movie CGI holds up.

(01:39:13):
Davy Jones looks better than like half of the.
Every year, Yeah. I rewatched Pricey Care like the
original all 5 films last year. OK, Davy Jones still holds up
like. But I think that's 9/10/12.
Yeah, he still is great. That's amazing.
Yeah. Davy Jones looked better than
fucking Galactus over. Here, Yeah, easily.
And I haven't even rewatched those in quite some time.

(01:39:35):
But just based off of memory, I mean, I bought into the reality
of Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, I think we're at the point
where marble phones, they use somuch TGI where it's either,
yeah, they're not using it well enough or they're just going for
the bare minimum. Because this one felt, I think
if they worked on it and spent more time on it, they could have
made a good looking. Yeah, I was about to say, I

(01:39:59):
think part of the issue might bethat they are just stressing
their VFX artist way too much because they are so relying on
CGI that these people are probably putting in crazy hours
to get these films ready for their set release date because,
you know, they wanted to releasethis.
At a certain time before Avengers Doomsday.

(01:40:21):
So they're probably overworked. But yeah, Marvel is just way too
reliant. Oh my goodness, the CGI baby.
Yikes. Yikes.
How? How is it that the one thing
that is rooted in real life looks the most uncanny?
The Fantastic car looked more real than the baby.

(01:40:44):
Right, that's what I'm telling you like.
What is going on here? It didn't look.
Great. And I think rather than wasting
all that money on the reshoots, they should just gave that money
to the VFX artist, you know, letthem work on it, like make it
look better and shit. Yeah, because, yeah, I know like
this. That part, I was like the CGI,
it was not well done, I think. No, that is a genuine criticism

(01:41:07):
I have. Yes, yeah, The CGI is just, you
know, I've seen so many compliments about the visuals of
the film. And the only part of the movie
that I think that applies to is the production design, which
again, I'm not going to try to say her name, but all the credit
in the world to her. But but I think when people

(01:41:30):
praise the visuals, they're talking about the production
design and they're talking aboutthat space sequence in the
second act. Because everything else kind of
looks terrible. Even when Silver Surfer first
arrives and you have kind of like, I don't know what you want
to call it, like a meteor showerin the sky, you know, because it
kind of looks like it's a blaze.That kind of looked kind of

(01:41:51):
cheap to me. Yeah, no, that's fair.
I was also not a fan of like, I don't mind that.
Like it's a Silver Surfer. Like it was it, it was like they
use like the like the woman likeversion of of that character.
No, but like I, I I don't know. I just like the like they had
like pupils and they try to makeher look more humanoid and

(01:42:13):
silvery. And it's just like this should
just, if you're going to cast like make Silver Surfer, do it
like the original 1, where like,it looks inhuman.
Yeah, more inhuman and like, youknow, like, like without pupils.
And she's like this. And they try to make it like too
human, even like the hair. Like she had her hair slicked
back her. Hair looks too.
Teaching had just gotten out of the shower.

(01:42:33):
Yeah, they look at like gelled bags.
Yeah, back like I'm like this too.
Like it's too much texture. Like you have a smoothed out
like Mystique and fucking X-Men.Like she's got a slicked back
hair. Like, yeah, just have like that,
but silver. But they they try to add too
much texture to like, I it it itfelt like too human.
And maybe maybe that's what theywere going for, you know, to

(01:42:55):
sell this on. Like the subplot between Johnny
and her. Yes.
It didn't work for me. You know, I, I, I did notice
that they tried to give her pupils, but I was so distracted
by the hair, yeah, that I, it didn't really register, but.
Wasn't that was not found the hair.
No, that the hair and The thing is, it's it's not even like the

(01:43:19):
hairstyle. It's it's what you said.
It's what they tried to do with the the metallic alloy and the
CGI. Like I said, it looks like she
just got out of the shower and her hair is like off.
Like back and like crunchy and like out.
I wasn't a fan of that of of hercharacter design.

(01:43:41):
Like I was fine with the character, just the character
design. No, the character's fine.
Just like I said, I wanted more of Silver Surfer.
Yeah, but the the CGI as a whole, I think it just, it looks
kind of rubbery to me. Yeah, yeah, I I can agree with
you. Yeah, like not the best CGI.
No, and you know this. Superman had better.

(01:44:03):
CGI. This is a nitpick.
Yes it did. Superman did have better CGI.
This is a nitpick, but I'm just going to say it.
I know this movie made the aesthetic choice to go with the
retrofuturism, but the fantasticcar was so lame.

(01:44:23):
Give me the Dodge Fantastic car from Rise of the Silver Surfer
any day of the week bro. Give me that American muscle.
That's definitely a nitpick. That is a nitpick, I can admit
that. That's not a real criticism.
I'm just saying. Right, give me the Dodge 1.
Yeah, or the what was the best of the future car?

(01:44:45):
The DeLorean, The. DeLorean one.
Yeah, yeah. They could have gone that route,
but I don't know. Overall, Like my overall
thoughts for this film is just, I'm not upset for having watched
it, but at the same time, I would not have minded not seen

(01:45:05):
this film in theaters and waiting for it to come on
streaming. I don't think that would have
changed. I don't think that would have
changed my experience or enjoyment of the film or movie.
I should say, because it's not afilm.
I think the only reason why I'vewatched it, OK, it's not the
only reason, but a reason I watched it was for this episode,
for this podcast, because I knewit's going to be a big movie to

(01:45:26):
talk about and I was looking excited.
I was excited and looking forward to it, but yeah, no,
this wasn't it. This was not it.
Yeah, just before I say what I want to say, another funny
tangent is when we walked out ofthe theater, Jesse was
apologizing to me for the movie.And I'm like thinking, dude,

(01:45:50):
you're apologizing as if I wasn't going to watch this.
Yes, but it you know it, that just speaks to how much of like
of a nothing burger this movie really is.
I mean, when I got home, I told my mom it's the cinematic
equivalent of tap water. Yes, I hate yes, that's that's

(01:46:13):
really what it is. But what I want to say is I was
excited for this movie. Did I have reservations?
Yes. I wasn't sure about Pedro and
Joseph Quinn, and in my opinion,I was proven right about those
two. But I, I was excited for this
because I was ADC kid growing up.

(01:46:34):
You know, I, I watched Batman the animated series.
I, I watched Batman mask of the Phantasm so much that my dad
told me I was going to ruin the VHS from blockbuster.
I damn, you know, I watched, youknow, Justice League and Justice
League Unlimited, Teen Titans. The only Marvel characters that

(01:46:56):
I ever gave a shit about when I was younger were Spider Man and
the Fantastic Four. Which explains why I love the
2005 version because that was the first time I got to see
them. But what I'm trying to all this
is to say is that I was excited for this because I actually care
about these characters. I have told Cass for years that

(01:47:21):
the only thing that is going to make me care about the MCU
again, truly care about it, is if they nail the Fantastic Four.
And I don't think they did. I mean, I don't think they
fumble the ball, but I don't think they scored a touchdown
either. Right.
OK, I was. I was gonna say that.

(01:47:42):
Well, I was about to say hit it out of the park, yeah, but then
I would have been using fumble football and then hit it out of
the park baseball. So I was like, OK, let me just
go with baseball. Term where like you hit it with
the bat just to like walk or whatever.
You bunted it bunted. Yeah, they didn't hit just.
To get a base. Hit yeah they bunted it like
yeah like Marvel was like all right no we we we had a bad film

(01:48:04):
with we we struck out with bravenew world they got to you know a
good solid 2 bases in with thunderbolts asterisk and
they're like hi we just need onemore base or maybe 2-2 bases for
A1 run they got one more base with this movie they're they're
a third base and they're. Hoping Doomsday can bring them.
In yeah, bring them home, yeah, but yeah, they just still add

(01:48:27):
like it's still just such another.
That's, that's honestly beautiful because I, like I said
at the beginning of the episode,the best thing I've heard about
this is this is a movie so afraid to be bad that it's just
fine. Yep.
And I mean, I wish I could remember like even the username
of the guy who said that becauseseriously, shout out to that

(01:48:50):
person. That's so true.
That's such like a like a small,like succinct, yeah, yeah.
Succeed. Like just sentence like, yeah,
no, that's exactly how this movie is.
And I think ironically, we're going to see like a lot like I
think moving forward by the end of the summer and moving to like
next year, we're going to see like a lot of hey, yo, guys, the

(01:49:12):
MCU is back, I think. Oh, we're already seeing it.
Yeah. Like we're going to see a lot of
that. You're already seeing Youtubers
with thumbnails of like people making shocked faces like we're
so back. Yeah, like, oh, we had a few
misses, but like, no, like now they're in the right direction.
It's like, guys, slow down. It's only been 2.
One good movie, one fine, but I mean, that's.

(01:49:33):
Just kind of the media landscapewe live in.
Yeah, well, especially with the Marvel.
Streams, yeah. People were kind of like, yeah,
like tired of Marvel films and like for you, like, yeah, you
were like, if they don't notice when I'm done with the MCU,
yeah, honestly, like this movie,I kind of did feel that way.
I I watched movie theater and I was like, I don't, I don't know

(01:49:53):
if I care about watching the next one in theaters.
I'll just wait for it to come onstreaming because like this, I
didn't. I mean, I'm sure we'll watch
Avengers Doomsday for the sake of this show.
Yep. But it's like, do I have the
emotional investment? No, just not at all.
Yep. But if they release something
else like The Marvels or whatever, I'm not going to watch

(01:50:13):
that. Like, no, I'm sorry, show chat.
We are. I'm not going to say we I am not
going to talk about the new Ironheart show, Ironheart show
unless to like, you know, make jokes about it and talk shit.
But I'm not I'm not watching that.
So I, that's not going to be a topic I'm going to bring to this
like podcast or like, hey guys, let's talk about Ironheart or

(01:50:34):
whatever. Yeah.
Famous last words. Until, you know, episode 222
where I'm like, hey guys, so Ironheart what they actually did
for the MCU, right? We're going to get a master
class from Jesse about why Ironheart is actually better
than Fantastic Four First Steps.Bro, you know what?

(01:50:55):
That would be a great homework assignment like.
And you know what? Yeah 'cause I bet you I would
have more fun. I hate watching Ironheart than I
did Fantastic Four. Yeah.
I mean, I think what's so disappointing about this movie
is that it's not bad. It's not like I said, it's not

(01:51:17):
an abomination like Fan Forstick, but it's also not bad
like, say, The Marvels. Yeah, it's just so.
It's not good enough for a rewatch.
It's just so there. Yeah, it is.
It's it's a fucking shame. It is, yeah.
Like, I don't think it's good enough for a rewatch.

(01:51:38):
I am probably still going to rewatch when it comes on
streaming, but it's not like a movie I'm going to go back to.
Like I can go back to rewatchingIron Man or Captain America
Civil War or you know, any of the Tom Holland Spider Man
movies because they're kind of, they're kind of quirky.
But this movie, no, I, I, I don't see my stuff coming back
to this movie after my next rewatch in like 3 months I

(01:52:01):
should say. I'll probably revisit it, but
it's not going to be with a ton of enthusiasm, to be honest with
you. Yeah.
My my mind is probably not goingto change much from here until
my rewatch was. I think I could rewatch Superman
again when it comes out on VOD and I'm going to probably still

(01:52:24):
feel the same way but even have a more nuanced.
Thought this makes Superman lookrevolutionary.
Yeah, yeah, it really did. And I want to take this film and
if anything, all this did, all this all this movie did was like
highlight like the strengths of Superman because like there are

(01:52:44):
a lot of comparisons, Like I only made a few during this
episode, but you can make a lot more like from like, you know,
like the trend of having like a no origin story just jumping
right in. This one was kind of cute or
like they used 4A lot, like 4 years ago, the Fantastic Four,
you know, went to space, got thepowers.
They had the post cred scene. Four years later.

(01:53:07):
Superman had like the whole 3/3 to 3/3 to three, like that whole
little thing going on for them. So that was cute.
Like, there's a lot, there's a lot of comparisons you can make
to Superman, but overall, like this film, it's I yeah.
It's all right. It's just, it's such a strange,

(01:53:29):
strange case. It's it's a disappointment
because I do like these characters and they did play
very safe. And in that sense, I think it
feels very reactive to the criticisms of Phases 4:00 and
5:00. But I mean, just to sort of echo

(01:53:50):
something I said earlier, I justreally think that it's
interesting that so many of the things that I said about
Superman could either go one wayor the other, meaning it could
be an incredible strength for the film, or it could be a
detriment, depending on who watched it.
It's funny because having watched Fantastic Four, I now

(01:54:12):
think every single thing I mentioned about Superman is
actually a huge strength. It's what makes it work.
Superman throws a lot at you. There's a lot going on, but it
it feels lived in. It feels like a real world
metropolis, feels like an actualinhabited city that people live

(01:54:32):
in, and they're used to all of these super bizarre things
happening because they know thatthey can count on Superman to
stop them. But Fantastic Four is kind of
the opposite because there is such a strong desire to create
an intimate and psychological atmosphere for the characters

(01:54:55):
that it just drains them of their humanity.
In my opinion. The writing in general is just
not very strong. Everything about the movie just
feels vaguely undercooked. It's just, it's very strange.
It's it's, it's a stand alone movie and somehow these 4

(01:55:16):
characters feel very isolated from everything happening.
I don't know, it's just, it's, it's a tough movie to like
really wrap my head around. Not because it's intellectually
challenging, but it's just, it'ssuch a strange case of

(01:55:37):
filmmaking. Right no, I watched this film
while you were there with me andI was like, all right, we're
partying tomorrow cuz this one when we watched stupid man, it
was like are we might need a dayor two to let's.
Do on this. Yeah, really think on it.
Yeah, we did the same thing for sinners.
Like, hold on, let's we. Gave that like a a full 2

(01:55:58):
episode buffer. Yeah, this one was like, no,
like my opinion, like I don't think any I'm I'm gonna add
anything new on. There's nothing to be.
Gained from watching this in theaters.
Yeah, so like, I think everything like I wanted to say
about Fantastic Four, I'm like, oh, I can say this right away.
Yeah. Which I did.
I think I've said everything I've wanted to say.

(01:56:18):
If I forgot anything, it's gonnabe something really small that I
can just use it as a throwaway line.
Yeah. The only thing I have left to
say is obviously the primary theme here is is family.
Just right we. Were care for your family.
We were going to talk about the things, yes.
About family and coming togetherfor the greater good.
But the the truth is, I think this is done better in The

(01:56:46):
Incredibles. Bro, I was gonna.
Say if if it. There were some, there were some
parallels. You know if the Coleman, Yeah.
If it comes down to you trying to decide between watching
Fantastic Four, First Steps, andThe Incredibles, just watch The
Incredibles. Bro, that's a, that's a
brilliant. But you're like compared to
Moleman the underminer. Yeah, like, but that's a

(01:57:08):
brilliant like way because like,I think.
Yeah. Both movies tackle about the
theme of family, but The Incredibles, like, it does it so
much better. Yes, Which is sad because like,
you know, like, yeah, like this theme, like a theme of this
movie. Is it's a worthwhile discussion?
Yeah. Yeah, but I don't I, I don't
think like they tackled that theme like they didn't really
like put in as much effort as they did towards like exploring

(01:57:32):
the themes of depression and Thunderbolt asterisks.
Yes, like the family theme. I had no point in this film that
I feel feel like Pascal as Mr. Fantastic and Sue Storm, like,
oh, they're gonna be a family. This might be a hot take.
I felt like they had no chemistry.
Yeah, no, I didn't. They had.
Negative. I am feeling chemistry so it's

(01:57:55):
kind of hard to sell like the theme of family and motherhood.
You can sell the theme of motherhood.
I think the motherhood theme that was actually stronger than
the theme of family. But yeah, the family theme
itself, the chemistry wasn't. I got it and feel, I didn't feel
it. I saw it was there throughout
the whole film. But you know, it wasn't when you
watch a family film, if you're like, you know, attuned to like,

(01:58:19):
you know, care about family or shit like that, like some movies
pull your heartstrings like that.
Like Toy Story is a family film.Like there are family moments
where it's like like it tugs at you easy.
Easiest go to example for me is Lion King Mufasa dies.
Like, you know, a family moment that's sad, like, you know,
losing your dad, Like, that's a sad, like, family touching

(01:58:42):
moment. I didn't get that from Fantastic
Four, First steps. And I'm just realizing it's
called first steps. You know, as a fucking baby.
You know, they take Franklin. It's right there.
Like the whole movie is trying to be about family.
And I didn't feel, I didn't get,like, that family, like, pulling
out my heartstrings, like, oh, this feels like a family unit.

(01:59:02):
Yeah, I got that. I got my heartstrings pulled by
Thunderbolt Asterix. Yes.
So I know. Marvel has the capacity to do
it, they just didn't do it with this movie, which is strange.
Like again, it's just. They were too afraid of messing
it up. Yeah, which, OK, whatever.
It might work for them from a financial point of view, but as

(01:59:24):
a creative like film, this was not it.
No, it really wasn't. I do think the theme of
motherhood was much stronger because you don't just get it
with Sue. Like I said, it's I said this
off off the the pod, but I thinkit's implied that Shalala Ball
is also a mother, given the flashback when that we see when

(01:59:48):
she sort of makes the decision to become Galactus's herald in
order to spare her planet. And it obviously there are
actions taken by the characters that show the depth of a
mother's love for her child. I think that stuff is actually
way more effective. It helps that Sue was the only
interesting character in the movie.

(02:00:11):
But yeah, I'm, I mean, it's just, you know, for as much as I
say, like, I wish we had more Silver Surfer in this movie, her
sort of turn was the most predictable thing.
In the entire movie. I mean, it's just it's, it's

(02:00:31):
such a very, very strange movie.I keep saying that but it's it
comes from a place of genuinely wanting to like this movie and
walking away feeling nothing. Yeah, I feel the same way.
Yeah, Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's my thoughts on

(02:00:57):
Thunderbolt. Sorry, brain fart.
That's my thoughts on Fantastic Four.
First steps, First steps. Shout out to Franklin Richards.
Yep. You know, I'm, I'm very curious
like where they're going to go in with that direction with the
baby cuz make cuz they, I think they are.
I think the MCU is here to stay.It's going to be like Doctor Who

(02:01:18):
where like they have like a new generation every few like years
or whatever. Dude that kid is Opie in the
comics. So this baby that they're
setting up like, oh, this baby'sgoing to be very relevant.
Like the MCU Phase 17 or whatever, like when they phase
out then do all the characters or whatever.
But yeah. I wonder if they're gonna bring
in Reed and Sue's daughter. I hope so.

(02:01:41):
I I hope so too. Like they're gonna, I, I hope
that they just keep on expandingin the MCU and just adding more
characters. But also just like trying to do
what they did here and having its own self-contained story,
but not be as isolating as this one is because it's all like
very like isolated. It did.
It really, really did. I don't know, I I it kind of

(02:02:05):
felt hard for me to get into like a a universe where like the
only superheroes is the Fantastic Four.
Like, no, no, no, no shade or not got the Fantastic Four.
But as a casual viewer of superhero movies, you gotta tell
me at least like a spider man orlike a like an Iron Man in there
somewhere, like at least like, hey, you know, like the The

(02:02:27):
Avengers exist, but they're theyoperate over here or something.
But no, this was just. All see that that that just
lends further credence to the fact that if the first thing
people are willing to praise this movie for is being a stand
alone film, I'm sorry movie, then that just that tells me

(02:02:48):
that it the bar for what we consider to be a good movie.
Now the bar is in hell, as they say.
Right. You know what, I think I'm, I'm
starting to come over to your side now in regards to that
view. Yeah.
Guys, I I chat. I genuinely love the Fantastic

(02:03:10):
Four. When I was a kid, I had
Fantastic Four action figures and I had the Dodge fantastic
car. I love that thing.
I wanted to like this movie. And it's again, it's not even
that it's bad. It's not that I hate it.
I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't upset or angry.

(02:03:32):
I was just empty. I was just I I felt as hollow as
this movie's screenplay. Damn well, chat, maybe you
walked away from maybe if you haven't seen the movie and you
listen to this entire episode, then damn, you might walk into

(02:03:55):
that movie like with low expectations.
Other chat you might have already seen this film and you
know, are talking are just listening to this podcast
afterwards to both of you peopleor versions of yourselves, you
know, hey, form your own opinion.
Don't take our critiques like that's that like, you know, like
don't take my negativity into the movie and then just watch

(02:04:18):
the movie and be like, you know what?
Yeah, I agree with everything hesaid because, you know, I
already viewed the like the movie that way.
View it to your own lens first because you know what people are
generally liking this movie. So maybe I'm going to be like
the the 2% negative reviews, like if people are going to give
this like a certified fresh, like 8080% on rise meals or

(02:04:41):
whatever, I'm going to be like that one critic that gave it
like, you know, a solid 5. It was very mid.
Like I said, this was like very average.
Wasn't bad. It wasn't good.
I will say this fine, this is 1 movie that is extremely
deserving of the slang term mid.Yeah.

(02:05:02):
Like, this movie was not fantastic, No.
These four were not fantastic, no.
But I absolutely agree with whatJesse said.
Do not let everything we've saidin the past couple hours or so
color your opinion of the movie.I'm not telling you to not watch
it. I'm not telling you this is

(02:05:23):
exactly how it is. This is just what I walked away
from it thinking. Yes, that doesn't mean you're
going to think the same. And again, I I would never
discourage you from watching it and forming your own opinions.
So, you know, I hope that you are willing to hear us out, but

(02:05:48):
yes, definitely do not let our opinions bias you in any way.
Unless if it's about Superman 'cause that movie was
revolutionary. Yes, when it comes to things
like Superman, Top Gun, Maverickand The Batman, we are
objectively correct. And.
And our opinions are actually they have been scientifically

(02:06:11):
proven to be flawless. Yes, that's brilliant.
I love it. Well, we have a lot of
announcements to end this episode.
Yes, I didn't break it to you. I was gonna say like, yo, this
is gonna be something that we should have mentioned at the
beginning episode, but we're doing it towards the end.

(02:06:32):
So chat we're. Gonna end with banter.
Yeah, just stay right here, chat.
We're almost done. Yes.
Listen to these announcements. Dylan is very like Dylan is very
proud of this one. I'm proud of this one too.
But I'm gonna let Dylan announceit.
Go, Dylan. Yes.
So since we are now 21 episodes in as of this Fantastic Four
episode, we have a good back catalog for people to come and

(02:06:56):
listen to, which means that we have finally expanded the show
to other streaming platforms. You can now find Below the Line
podcast available on Amazon Music, Audible, iHeartRadio,
Pocket Casts, and several other podcast hosting platforms that

(02:07:21):
are used by Android users. We're still working on the Apple
thing. For some reason, there's an
Apple ID issue for me on my laptop, but I'll get it fixed.
Yeah, I'll get it sorted out. But yes, the show is basically
available on every podcast hosting platform there is now.
So feel free to listen to us in whichever platform is most

(02:07:47):
convenient for you or whichever 1 you like to interface with
more. Cuz I know some people you know,
obviously just prefer to use Spotify for music.
So yeah, we are on on Audible and Pocket Cast, which I know is
apparently really popular with Android users.
I learned. OK.
So yeah, so we are expanding theavailability of the show.

(02:08:12):
But again, we we would always appreciate a follow as a sign of
support on Spotify or a subscription on YouTube because
obviously YouTube has a lot of supplemental material to the
show on there. And so, yes.

(02:08:32):
Like the award-winning Transformers video?
Yes, yes, the award-winning Transformers video.
Shameless plug. Shameless plug.
So close to 10K guys, come on, we're right there on the
precipice. And there is another
Transformers video coming on Tuesday.

(02:08:53):
Shit on Tuesday. On Tuesday, you know what?
By the time you get this episode.
It's already gonna be out. It's already out.
And maybe it'll be at like 3K, who knows.
Nice. Yes.
But yeah, so we are available onmost platforms at this point,
so. 20 episodes in, yes. It's.
Almost, you know, hitting our season finale if we were ATV.

(02:09:16):
Show almost. Yeah.
What does the TV? Show run 2420. 24 back in the
day. Now most shows are like 8 to 13.
We're on Season 2. Because of production cycles,
yeah. No, we're still on Season 1,
guys, but when we hit Season 2, you'll know.
Yes, you'll know. But at this point we have
expanded the show. So if you know it has been

(02:09:38):
inconvenient for you in any way to, to listen strictly on
Spotify or YouTube, now you havea a plethora of options and we
are very excited to be expandingthe show at this point.
And I I'm so tempted to make another announcement, but I'm
going to hold my tongue. Yeah, we can't, we can't, we

(02:10:00):
can't announce everything right now, guys.
Yeah, but just there's gonna be an episode where it's gonna be
like just massive like announcement, dump after dump
after dump. But that's not this episode.
We're now this is just this one announcement because yeah, I
think it's pretty fucking dope that we're now available on like
most streaming platforms and thethe fact that yo we're at 20

(02:10:21):
episodes yeah that's 20 plus hours of content.
Yes like at least almost 40 cuz some of these episodes are two
hours long, some are an hour anda half.
So we'll see I'll meet you in the middle.
There's 30 plus hours worth of content.
And that's two hours of Patreon exclusive.
Episode. OK, maybe we are at 40 hours of
content. Yeah, Like, damn.

(02:10:43):
Yeah, guys, that's pretty impressive.
It is pretty impressive cuz you know what the show it, it
struggled just like every, everypodcast does at the beginning.
But you know, we we found it. Yeah, that's what we do around
here on on the below online podcast.
We do impressive shit. Yes, I, I mean, I, I the, the

(02:11:05):
thing that I always come back to, you said this in the last
episode that you like doing the show.
We're still going to be here. The thing that I always come
back to is that somebody came upto Jesse and told them they were
a fan of the show and that people have watched True
Detective Season 1, Someone has watched F1 because of this show.

(02:11:29):
That that to me, is the incentive to keep it moving.
What's that? Yeah.
And I forgot to say this somehow, but you guys can
subscribe to the Substack, whichis substack.com at Nightfall
Films because the RSS feed for the show is linked directly into

(02:11:51):
that. So every Monday you're going to
get a notification if you're a subscriber that there's a new
episode and you can just listen to it directly through the
website. Apparently they host podcast.
This is news to me. I'm still learning as I go
along. So we really are on a of
different platforms now. Fuck yeah.

(02:12:13):
We're asking you here like you know the latest and greatest
from the nobodies of Hollywood at here at Below the Line
podcast. Yes.
Well, these are great announcements to make guys.
Yeah, it's been fun. Yeah.
And with that being said, I think we're going to wrap up the
show now. Yeah, show acknowledgements.

(02:12:34):
I'm going to leave it up to Dylan as he normally goes along
with this and I just say here inclap.
Yeah, I just, I was kind of hoping Jesse would hit us with
his signature. It's been a pleasure to sit down
with you and talk film. See, I would say that, but this
film was not a pleasurable experience.
OK, touché, but no. OK, I'm gonna run chat.

(02:12:55):
It was a. Pleasurable time, you know, just
sitting down here and chatting, talking shit about Fantastic
Four First steps. I can't say it was a
pleasurable. Time.
Maybe it wasn't. Pleasurable.
To watch the movie, but was it pleasurable to talk?
It was pleasurable to sit down and talk about this movie.
It's basically just like, get out all the thoughts that I had,
like, you know, leaving. Get it off the chest.

(02:13:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
So yeah. No, it was.
It was a pleasure ladies and. Gentlemen, OK, there we go.
Anyways, running through the show, Acknowledgements.
Thank you to Levi for composing.Thank you.
To the music, thank you to Jessefor the artwork.
Thanks to that guy. Thank you to our brand new
producer Maya. Shout out to Maya.

(02:13:36):
Other than that, that is all that we have for you today.
And of course, the best and mostimpactful way to support the
show is to either follow us on Spotify or subscribe to the
YouTube channel youtube.com forward slash at Nightfall
Films. And of course, you can find the
show on a variety of other platforms now.
Yeah. Thank you for listening

(02:13:58):
everybody. Peace plants.
Namaste.

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