The Heart & Sincerity of Top Gun: Maverick

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Be inspired to do things differently.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
This is Below the Line podcast brought to you by the nobodies
of Hollywood. I'm Dylan.
And I'm Jesse and not sitting next to me again is cast, but
for good reason, for reasons I cannot disclose right now.
But we have implying on the low and that's all you're going to

(00:30):
get from me. It's going to be worth it,
you'll see. Yeah, like when you see cast
again, Oh my God, he might be a little too out of pocket.
We might have to, like, tame him.
But that's for a future episode.That's all I'm going to say and
what I'm allowed to disclose as per cast instructions.
Yes, we'll do our best to contain him, but no promises.

(00:55):
What's going on guys? What's going on Chat how you
guys feeling from all the Transformers dialogue?
The Michael Bay dialogue? Today is a special day.
A very special day. Only if you're American though.
If you're not American, this does not apply to you
whatsoever. But if you are, salute.

(01:16):
Happy, happy 4th of July. Yes, happy 4th of July,
everybody. This is Below the Line podcast
Surprise episode surprise drop. Grab your hot dog.
Your burger, your beer, A. Coca-Cola.
Yes, if you're under the age of 21.
Get your firecrackers ready, yes, obviously, and sit down and

(01:39):
have again for you're going to be in here for a good time.
Yes, because we are going to discuss something that I have
been personally waiting for Jesse's thoughts on for a few
episodes now. I don't.
Know how he has? Oh my God, it's been weeks.
I've been pushing and pushing for him to watch this and it's

(02:00):
finally happened. Suddenly and then not so
suddenly. One might even say that he
alluded to it in the last week'sepisode.
But. What did I allude to?
I think you said something like eventually I'll watch Top Gun
eventually. I did say that.
Well, guess what ladies and gentlemen eventually came today.

(02:22):
Eventually came today. I have seen Top Gun the original
1986 classic and Top Gun Maverick, the 2022, soon to be
instant classic in a few decadesto come.
Yes. So what?
Like I feel like this was a perfect perfect choice for today
on 4th of July. Like what better movie to talk

(02:44):
about than fucking Top Gun? Yes, exactly.
It doesn't get much more American than Top Gun.
So since we're releasing this episode on a Friday or on for
just live, we will be taking next week off.
But you know, we're giving you this episode early, so.
And it's, it's for a, it's a holiday special, Yep.

(03:08):
So you know, it's, it's hopefully further proof to our
commitment. Yep.
But this means there will be no episode on the Monday all after
4th of July, but there will be an episode of the following
Monday after that. What would that be?
July 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, July 14th, July 14th, July 14th.

(03:30):
We'll be we'll be back, but for now, enjoy this one right here.
Yes, rest assured we will be covering the infamous
blockbuster rush of July 2025. Where I'm so excited.
There's a lot of good movies. There's already movies coming
out like today. That or since last week.
Yeah. I want to see like F1, Jurassic

(03:50):
World for for for two, actually.Same with a few starters, but I
told you before, like the pod started that ballerina and and
Thunderbolt that asterisk already came out, you know
streaming it's. Such a shame about ballerina
though. It has been worried.
Such a limited theatrical run. It really was it.
I'm scared but when I Google andthen my Google YouTube research

(04:13):
before coming here, I did see like it had a good reception
like the audiences did like it, but I don't know like maybe
maybe didn't make up enough office.
Returns just wasn't. There.
Maybe. I don't know.
I'll have to let you do the research.
Yeah, as the symbols snob. Yeah, yeah.
But a Thunderbolt ash trick? That one's about time, because,

(04:33):
you know, right in time before Fantastic Four.
Yes, and also we can finally watch the opening scene in HD.
Bro, that's what I've been waiting for.
Like I've been. I know what the scene is like.
I really want to see, like, you know, what's their face?
Florence Pugh jump off a building.
Yeah, I really do want to see the tallest.
Building in the. World.
Yeah, like live action. And she really jumped off.

(04:54):
It's not quite as impressive as Tom Cruise climbing the Burj
Khalifa and Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol.
But it's still impressive, right?
But Speaking of Tom Cruise. That was a hell of a segue.
And thank you. Completely unintentional.
It was intentional. Speaking of Tom Cruise, how do

(05:15):
you feel about Tom Cruise? Like let's talk about Tom
Cruise. Like as an as an actor and
producer, I guess now, but as anactor, like he's like 62 now.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to be honest, I think during my
younger years I was pretty indifferent towards Tom Cruise.

(05:35):
That's not to say I didn't like him.
I just, to me, he felt very muchin that vein of actor who might
be kind of overrated because he's good looking.
And I would say the same thing about Brad Pitt.
When I was younger, I don't think I saw a ton of Brad Pitt
performances that left me blown away.

(05:57):
The first time I was truly impressed by a Brad Pitt
performance was Once Upon a Timein Hollywood.
Really. Yes, because I thought he stole
the show. Interesting because so many
people our age love Leo. Me personally right?
I've never been a huge Leo guy. Honestly I don't know what it
is. I just feel like Leo.

(06:19):
I never see the character. He never like taps into
something deeper. I always.
He like cut himself like filmingin like Django Unchained and I
keep the camera rolling, keep itrolling.
I always see Leo playing the character right instead of him
trying to capture and. Be the essence.

(06:41):
Yes, of whoever is on the page. Right.
Brad Pitt Stole the show and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
for me, when I saw that movie, all I could think was, wow, this
is actually exceptional work. Yeah, exactly.
Brad Pitt is just so cool in that movie.
And I'm just based off the looks.

(07:01):
We haven't been able to watch ityet, but I'm hoping.
Hoping we're gonna be able to catch it soon.
He he just looks cool in F1. Right now, I feel like Brad Pitt
like, and especially Tom Cruise too, by extension, like they're
at that age or like when they they start in a movie, like
they're like old grizzled man, like they're just too cool for
school now, you know? Yeah.

(07:23):
Especially like Tom Cruise, likeespecially in Top Gun Maverick,
like the opening scene, he comeshome, you know, dust off the old
lair jacket, you know, gets the the the sheet off his old
motorcycle. You know the.
Kawasaki Ninja Z XR. Yep.
Yes, This is a room. Room.
It's like, alright, come on. Come on, Tom Cruise, you're too

(07:43):
cool. Come on.
And he rides without a helmet. Oh my God, it's like bro, you're
he's too cool. He is too cool.
So is Brad Pitt like and usuallyI was thinking that movie and
also like bullet train. Like he's just like just casual.
Oh, I forgot about cool. Bullet train is suave awesome.
Yep. Like is it a highbrow movie?

(08:05):
No, no, but it's fun. Kick ass.
Yes, it's so much fun. And I think that's what Top Gun
is. It's a kick ass movie and I
wouldn't call it highbrow, but Ido think it is a culturally like
it. It did have a cultural impact in
terms of like what it like the original 1, what it did back
then and also like what the new one did.

(08:25):
Now, like it it it's not a highbrow movie, but it's still
like it's still a significant movie.
Like it's still it's this movie is going to these movies and
franchise is going to paint the it's going to paint the way for
like other type of film in the similar vein.
Maybe not like fire plate fighter jets or whatever, but

(08:45):
like in the similar vein throughcapturing like, you know, like
American patriotism or like justlike the story of like courage
and shit like that. I agree.
So what I would say is even though I wasn't a huge fan of
Tom Cruise when I was younger, it was the press run up leading

(09:06):
up to Top Gun Maverick that started to change my opinion of
him. Because, and I think I mentioned
this story briefly on episode 11when I went on my little
treatise about Top Gun Maverick.But as they started doing the
press for this movie, it was very much a big deal because,

(09:30):
and we'll get into this later, but Tom Cruise was adamant that
this was going to be released intheaters.
He refused to let Paramount strike this out on Paramount
Plus. But the point is that the press
for Top Gun Maverick, I think was a really big deal.
The marketing team did a really good job.
And during this lead up, my parents had asked me if I have

(09:52):
ever seen the original Top Gun and I said yes, but I don't.
I don't really remember it and they told me to watch it and it
just so happened that it was conveniently on Netflix.
I think this was February of 2022.
I sat down to watch Top Gun and oh man.

(10:15):
Top Gun is what I like to call especially the first one.
The first Top Gun is what I liketo call a vibes movie in that
it's not the most complex story,it's not the most layered
exploration of characters, but the the vibe of the movie is
just so strong and what you justsaid so cool that it it's enough

(10:41):
to elevate the movie into this cult classic status.
And then I watched Top Gun Maverick.
We all know I love that movie, no?
Really. And then?
And then I watched all of the Mission Impossible movies and it
was going through all of the Mission Impossible movies that

(11:04):
completely changed my mind to where I came full circle and
said, you know what I think? Tom Cruise is cool.
I really like Tom Cruise, right?I would honestly say out of that
sort of generation of actors where we do have people like
Leo, Brad Pitt, maybe George Clooney back in the day, Tom
Cruise, I think Tom Cruise is myfavorite actor of those guys.

(11:27):
Right. Not he is definitely a Hollywood
icon. Like he is going to be
remembered like how we remember like, oh, you know, like those
like Clint Eastwood, like, oh, back in the day, like back in
the day, like Clint Eastwood is what what Leonardo, Leonardo
DiCaprio and Brad Pitt is to us.Like Clint Eastwood.
And like Charlie Chaplin was like, you know, back to the

(11:48):
generation before us. And like, it's going to be sad.
Like there's going to be a tragedy.
Like, you know, give it like 30 years from now, people aren't
going to check back on like the classic, like, hey, you want to
watch a classic Tom Cruise movie?
Like whoa, what? Top Gun Maverick?
Isn't that an old movie? You know 2022 bro, we live
IN205555 or whatever. And you know, what's so

(12:10):
interesting about Tom Cruise is he has a versatility that I
don't think people talk about enough.
Because I think the discussion right now, understandably so, is
about Tom Cruise's star power. Is Tom Cruise the last true
movie star? Nah.
I think he is. I think we're going to say it's

(12:30):
going to be like a different like he's or maybe like in his
generation shirt. But they're still like we we
talk about like our favorite young actors, like the Timothy
Charmelo. See, I think Timmy is getting
there. Yeah, he's getting there.
That's what I'm saying. Like but.
Can you name an actor right now to where people show up to
movies because of the actor's name?

(12:51):
And let me frame it in this context.
The Rock OK, People don't show up to The Avengers for Chris
Hemsworth. They show up for Thor.
They don't show up for Chris Evans.
They show up for Captain America, the movie star.
At least as it used to. I don't.
Know, we talked about like who came for Captain America, Sam
Sam Wilson's Captain America wasn't that popular.

(13:13):
I think like people really did like the the Chris Evans,
Captain America. Look, I know we've had
disagreements and discussions onthat, but I don't know.
Right. So you so you want like an actor
like who's who's like has like the longevity of Tom Cruise.

(13:34):
He's been like doing movies for like 40 years or whatever
because Tom Cruise is like 62. He's been doing movies since his
20s Christian Bale. Why should I don't think
Christian? Bale's a movie star.
No, you're right. I think he's a movie star, but I
don't think he's like a super mega star like this guy.
That star power. I see what you're saying.
I mean, Vin Diesel, The Rock areeasy ones.

(13:55):
John Cena, I think he's going tostart to get there.
Really. Yeah.
I think John Cena's been transitioning from, well, yeah,
he's transitioning from wrestling to movies.
And I think he's gonna build their reputation like The Rock,
but more wholesome. And I think being more wholesome
is gonna give him a bigger, bigger, better brand.
Just give it. Fair enough, I see where you're

(14:19):
coming from, but I just don't know if people see the name John
Cena and feel compelled show up to the movie theater.
OK, Brad Pitt. I honestly think Tom Cruise is
the only person that generates that reaction.
Now, again, I do think Timmy is getting there, and I do think

(14:42):
Florence Pugh, maybe for the women.
Keanu Reeves. No, no, listen, I love John
Wick, but. Michael B Jordan.
Keanu Reeve, Maybe. Maybe a little bit.
Maybe a lazy thing getting there?
Yeah, Keanu Reeves. I like John Wick the franchise,

(15:02):
but let's be honest, Keanu Reeves is in general not a great
actor. Staging so.
He's pretty wooden I think, partof the reason he works.
That's that's the charm. Well, I think part of the reason
he works so well is John Wick isbecause that character is very

(15:23):
wooden and detached, right? I don't think Keanu Reeves has
you. Didn't like him at speed.
I like speed for the same reasoneveryone else likes speed.
Uh huh. Honestly I think my favorite
Keanu Reeves movie is Point Break.
I haven't seen that one. Dude, surfer classic.

(15:45):
And now I'm not even a surfer. Damn, but you could you could be
you. You do have a surfer vibe.
I. I could be.
You'd be you. You do like you do look like
someone who would run by a beach.
I'll take that as a compliment. Who would bleach his hair and
like, you know, be running by the beach?
Well I have bleached my hair so I guess.
You know, playing by like the beach side volleyball and all

(16:07):
that shit. Yeah.
Just like a young Tom Cruise, I.Was like in the first Top Gun
where and the second. One, the second one.
Dogfight football, Yeah. Dude, I watched him with my
sister. I'm like, look at Tom Cruise.
He's in his 50s and he still looks that good like.
Shredded. It makes me wonder, like, what
work does he get done? Because, like, there is no way
you're in your late 50s. And I look at Iceman, like, how

(16:29):
he looked. Yeah, that's how you should look
at that age. Tom Cruise.
Oh, my God. How are you 55 or 56 when this
film was? When this film was recorded?
Yeah. Yeah.
And like, you still don't look like this young.
I was astounded. I'm like, damn.
Like he, he he like Tom. Cruise is the man is kind of
ageless. Exactly like it makes me wonder

(16:51):
like all right, he he's definitely got a work done, but
it's been like, I guess, I guessgood work done because it's.
The power of Scientology. That was a joke.
That was a joke. I wouldn't joke about that.
We're too small a channel to before we get cancelled by a
Scientologist. All love Scientologist.

(17:12):
Yes, it is obviously all love. I told we do the South Park
episode. But anyways, Tom Cruise and Top
Gun, I think watching that movie, I can't really see how
that that movie is the one that kind of blew him up into
stardom. Like we can say that in
retrospect now that we have seenhis career and like what he's
done. Yeah.
Because it had been like 36 years since Top Gun and the

(17:36):
sequel. Yeah.
So in that, in that span, Tom Cruise has done like a lot of
movies in between, a lot of alsolike movies like in similar
veins, like in terms of like American action thrillers or
that, that type of shit. So to see him come back and do
Top Gun Maverick, it was interesting to see like him redo
a character or yeah, do a character that he's already done

(17:59):
and like add like that, that, that, that, that age, like he's
aged with that character. Like it's not just, it's not a
new character Maverick. Like now it's a Maverick.
A seasoned Maverick. I think that's part of what
makes Top Gun Maverick such a monumental film, though.
It's not just that the movie is good.

(18:21):
It's not just that the movie somehow touched the hearts and
minds of both cinephiles and thecasual moviegoer.
It's that Top Gun Maverick has this entire meta narrative about
aging and fighting for effort and the the theatrical

(18:43):
experience in a in a time where everybody wants to talk about
how that's eroding. I mean, throughout Top Gun
Maverick, there's this sort of constant refrain of Tom Cruise
being called an old man or Ed Harris's character saying,
right, you're kind or going extinct.
Like the the beginning of this movie is trying to sort of set

(19:07):
up the dialogue of how fighter pilots are going to be replaced
by drone warfare. Which makes sense.
And it it does, but they I thinkthat whole sort of paradigm of
digital versus analog in the movie can be pulled out and
viewed in a real world perspective to where are we

(19:28):
going to value practical effectsand the theatrical experience
Are are we going to make that full transition into the quote
UN quote digital era, which would be streaming and
productions that are sort of made by committee trying to hit
these sort of four quadrants of appealing to everybody.

(19:52):
I think there is there's a really strong meta narrative at
the heart of Top Gun Maverick that makes it just just so much
more than than. A legacy sequel?
Right. I can see that because I
remember like in when during covert around the time when like

(20:13):
Tenant, like Christopher Norman was talking about Tenant, how he
didn't want, he also didn't wantTenant to come to streaming.
Like he really wanted that to bea theatrical release.
Then you started hearing the same thing about Tom Gun
Maverick. Like no, like Tom Cruise doesn't
want this movie to come out of the streaming and like the
actual release only the actual release only.
So that movie had been like booked and done since like 2019

(20:34):
but didn't get released until like 2022.
Yes. So it's like a lot, it was like
a big kind of like a big risk because like, what if it isn't
pan out and like the movie isn'tas great as like as as like
maybe Tom Cruise or like the producers producers think it is?
Well, guess what, the movie was great, if not more like this

(20:56):
movie was like fucking phenomenal.
It kind of it was worth the waitand it kind of like it did make
like Tom Cruise like justified in like holding it off, like not
in terms of like talking about like to your point, like the
whole analog versus versus digital, like this was like a
win for the the analog for the creator, for the the auteurs.

(21:18):
You know, the cinematic experience because I watched
this movie on my on my big ass TV.
But that is that would not have compared to watching like the
the bad ass like playing fight scenes in a movie theater.
Oh my God, that would've been cinematic.
But this movie definitely did deserve to like, come out the
way it did. Yeah, I think Tom Cruise was

(21:39):
vindicated at every single turn.Right, And it really was like
you said, like it was and it wasreferenced in the movie too.
Like it's not the plane, it's the pilot.
Like, yes, like the drones are like the drones are like it
could be like a metaphor for like AI and like digital
streaming and just like the new age taking over where it's like
Tom Cruise's character Maverick and all the other pilots.

(22:01):
Like they're like the, the, the creative, the, the individuals,
the, the human element of it. And it's really great to see
like, you know, like, yeah, likethe human element when and like,
when in situations where like, yeah, maybe like using or
piloting an automatic drone isn't going to work in these
type of situations or missions, which I think Maverick where you

(22:26):
showed that off. Yeah.
And I think it was a great sequel in that like, bro, like
the planes they fly in Top Gun compared to like the planes they
fly in Maverick. Oh so fucking cool.
It really is. There is.
Oh man, there. There's just so much to get into
with Top Gun Maverick. I think that, look, this might

(22:52):
be controversial. Top Gun Mavericks save movies.
I don't care what anybody says in what way because technically
OK theaters reopened. In 2021 in. 2021, yeah, in in
the sense that the restrictions were largely lifted, right?

(23:15):
No movie in 2021 hit a billion dollars.
I see. Not even any of the mediocre
Marvel movies, right? We get to 2022, we get some
great films even early in the year, Everything Everywhere All
at Once, The Batman, there's allthese great movies in 2022.

(23:38):
And at this point we're already starting to see the decline of
Marvel, right? But I think there's such a
cynicism, especially from peoplelike me, that is scared that
people are still going to give their money by and large to
these kind of movies, to the MCU, right?

(23:58):
Top Gun comes out and it's the highest grossing film of 2022.
Didn't cross the building. It did nice.
A real movie for the first time in I don't know how many years
was the top grossing movie of the year.
Not a superhero film, not a not a sort of pre-existing IP.

(24:20):
Technically it's a franchise because it's a sequel, right?
But it's a real movie, right? This.
I mean a real movie after the worst pandemic since the 1912
influenza pandemic. Right.
There were so many extenuating circumstances and then theaters

(24:43):
reopen and yeah, you had gimmicks here and there like
Spider Man, No Way Home. But that's not a real movie.
That's a glorified SNL sketch. These opinions are brought to
you by Dylan's A Cynic. And then a real movie comes out
the following year and everybodyshows up for it, right?

(25:04):
Everybody shows. This movie proved that people
will show up to the theater if the product is good.
Right, And if it's got like thatTom Cruise name on it guy like
the Tom Cruise brand on it, I think that helped a lot too.
Like like I think the timing of it was perfect in that like, OK,

(25:24):
movies are movie theaters are reopening again, but there's
like no real blockbuster that people really want to like come
out to see. But then boom, you just like you
got a Tom Cruise movie, a real like American like Shyradic type
of movie, like one could even say like this movie when Top Gun
Maverick came out. What what what happened because

(25:46):
of the Top Gun Maverick is similar to what happened when
The Batman, the The Dark Knight,The Dark Knight came out and
what you know how inspired othermovies like it.
How so? Well, you know, Topical Maverick
came out, and I'm glad you asked.
They told me to because Topical Maverick came out and it proved
that hey, you can have a legacy sequel like do really, really

(26:06):
well. So what comes out later, years
later? Twisters, too.
Glad you're here too. The consequences of a real film
coming now and like, you know, taking inspiration and taking it
maybe even to some might say taking like the bad lessons from
IE Gladiator 2. OK, I'm glad you mentioned that

(26:28):
because what I was gonna say is comparable to I don't think
Gladiator 2 is a good legacy sequel.
It's not, but you know how you say that the other Dark Knight
like a lot more? Harm than good.
Exactly. Yeah, yes.
What if tough good Mavericks thesame way they start remaking
like all or adding sequels to like legacy movies that didn't
think you needed a sequel to I think.

(26:50):
This is already. Like who saw a Top Gun sequel?
Already demonstrably false. But it's fun.
It is fun, but let me tell you why I think this is false.
Top Gun Maverick. Part of what made it so special
is its embrace of sincerity and a return to classic Hollywood.

(27:16):
The amount of movies that have embraced that ethos since it's
released next to 0. What do you mean?
Oh no, he's checking his letterbox.
Guys, watch out. OK, modern blockbusters don't
believe in anything anymore. Top Gun Maverick does.

(27:39):
OK. They don't believe in heroes
without irony, they don't believe in sincerity without a
punchline, and they don't believe in the audience without
this sort of meta self referential wink.
There are so many movies, I can't even tell you how many
I've seen, where they have a dumb scene where the character

(28:02):
almost breaks the 4th wall and points out that we are watching
a movie where they will sort of wink at the camera and say,
isn't this dumb? You're watching a movie.
How dumb. This wouldn't happen in real
life. Top Gun Maverick does not do
that. It treats everything in its

(28:22):
story with the utmost sincerity.And I think that is, I don't
want to say it's its strongest quality, but it's it's up there.
And I don't think many movies since have done that.
Okay, I see what you mean. Okay, that's fair.
You know, like Top Gun Maverick.It's what I would say.

(28:45):
It's like the Godfather 2, the Godfather comes out, fucking
cinematic masterpiece. Godfather two.
It's like, how are you gonna do better than fucking Godfather
one? But it does I feel like Top Gun
Maverick. It's it's it was it's a great
sequel and somehow it was betterthan Top Gun like the original
in terms of just like the characterization and even the

(29:05):
story. I feel like the story was
stronger in this one, in this inthe sequel compared to the first
one. And the characterization like
there, there was a lot more likecharacter, like emotional
character development in the second one.
And like that really like pull on your like on the emotional
weight of like the first movie. Like I, I love that reference
that like Maverick's relationship with Goose's son

(29:29):
Rooster and how like the guilt that he feels 'cause you know,
from what happened in the first movie and how that translate
translates into like the relationship he has now with
Rooster and everybody else. Like I, I really love that the,
that that Maverick shows like there's consequences to actions
that's like that that kept like the movie grounded and like, it

(29:50):
wasn't like over the top. It was like, no, these are real.
Like this could happen to anybody type of like story.
Earlier you mentioned how Tom Cruise brings this element of
aging to Top Gun Maverick. And I think a big part of that
is obviously a result of this story of the first movie.

(30:11):
It's not just that Tom Cruise has obviously aged as an actor,
but he brings this much more world weary presence to
Maverick. But it he's not cynical either.
And I think that is a huge, hugedifference when when you compare

(30:33):
Top Gun Maverick to other blockbusters.
And I say this is someone who very much walks on the cynical
side of life, but. Yes.
Yep, that's you. There's just this element to
Maverick that feels very, like Isaid before, optimistic.

(30:54):
I was gonna say that like I wrote that in my notes that like
Maverick is a very optimistic movie and maybe it's like that's
okay. Like not every movie has to be
like this over the top dramatic movie where someone dies or is
like this emotional weight or whatever.
Like Maverick is a super optimistic movie from like
beginning to end. Like, yes, there's drama in

(31:16):
between, but like at the end of the day, it's so like you're
rooting for like, you know, likethe hero to save the day and Top
Gun or I'm sorry, a maverick, like he's the hero that you want
to root for. Like he goes through the trials
and tribulations. He doesn't always get the way he
he doesn't always get get it howhe wants it.
Like he does have to go through like tribulations to like like

(31:41):
throughout the story. And I feel like there's like
that that's just, it's just sucha like a not not happy story,
just an optimistic movie in terms of like what it means and
like all the characters involved.
I obviously talked about this movie's embrace of optimism
before, but I do. I just think there's something

(32:02):
about this movie specifically about the way that it treats its
characters with such respect, with such sincerity.
It's not just Maverick. It is very much Rooster,
Hangman, Phoenix, Bob, Fanboy, Payback.

(32:23):
It's Holdo. It's all of these guys,
basically, with the exception ofJon Hamm, right?
And Ed Harris's characters. Is diversity done well?
Is diversity done well without bringing attention?
Attention to it is how I would put it.
Yes. Disney.
Take notes. I definitely agree with you
there. But all of these characters,

(32:44):
even though they are occasionally at odds with each
other, they all push each other to be better.
They all are are working towardsthe same goal and they
ultimately believe in the best in not only themselves, but in
humanity, right? And I I that's just such a lost

(33:06):
quality on Hollywood. And I'm not saying every story
needs to be optimistic, just like you said, not every story
needs to be this cynical dramatic story where we question
institutions or the way that things work, right.
Not every movie needs to be thisoptimistic, but I would like

(33:31):
movies to embrace the the aspectof sincerity because I just
think it's it's really special that all of these people,
despite having their differences, despite maybe even
disliking each other at times, are able to work together
towards a common goal and ultimately push each other to

(33:54):
become better, no matter the trials and tribulations that
they might encounter. Because that's something that we
see in Top Gun Maverick again and again.
Right. It's really interesting that in
both cases that Goose and then later on his son Rooster that
they play a foil to the character that Tom Cruise plays

(34:15):
Maverick. And the first one Goose, like
Maverick is like the, the well, they're both young, but they're
young and reckless. Maverick has like an ego that
he's a he's a great pilot, but because of that, he's got like
his ego. And that Goose is kind of like
like kind of like the Angel on his shoulder that kind of keeps
an ego in check sometimes. But then unfortunately, you
know, spoiler alert, Goose passes in the first movie, but

(34:39):
he had a son, he was married, which we see grown up in Top Gun
Maverick as Rooster and Rooster is not like the you know, he's
like the foil to Maverick because while Maverick is still
kind of like he's he's old, but he's still like reckless.
The opening scene of Top Gun Maverick is Maverick pushing
like the the new fire jet to like like he was just to get

(35:03):
supposed to get like Mach 10 andhe got to like 10 and he was
like, you know what, just just alittle push more like, you know,
pushing past they losing each other, playing spinning out and
like, you know, just because he has to be a little bit reckless
and just push the boundaries more.
Rooster's the opposite. He's more cautious.
He he got to do things like the like the right way than the fast

(35:23):
way. And he plays like his his
rivalry with Hangman is like it parallels Mavericks rivalry with
Iceman back in the, you know, Top Gun, the original.
And it's just great to see like how like this movie, like the
way it was written, written likethe characters are not so
shallow. Like there is like deep and
meaningful relationships betweenall these characters and like

(35:45):
there are parallels between all these movies or both these
movies I should say. Yes, I agree with you that we
still see that Maverick is kind of a renegade and he's still a
little bit reckless. That's the reason why he's a
captain. He would never promote anything
higher than that. But I also think that because I
don't know if it's Tom Cruise's real life experience or if it's

(36:07):
the fact that it's just how the movie was written, but Tom
Cruise and Top Gun Maverick, he,he brings this sort of grace.
And I'm not sure what the right word is.
This sort of grace and, well, maturity, coolness to the well,
yeah, to the role that that we don't see in the first movie,

(36:28):
which which makes sense from a story perspective, but.
No, he's definitely more seasoned.
Like we this, while it's still like the same like, you know,
you say renegade Maverick. This is still like the same
Maverick that was at the end of Top Gun like where he learned
like the value of teamwork and like the value of your team and

(36:49):
not abandoning your team. And he teaches that lesson to
Hangman, like when he's doing the exercises and Hangman
abandons his his his team mates to, you know, try to win the
competition, which goes against him because, you know, Maverick.
Maverick used to be like Hangman.
So, like, it's interesting to see how this is like now.

(37:10):
A more like, maybe not. Yeah, I guess you could say
mature, but this is a seasoned Maverick where he still believes
in the value of life and like the value of teamwork versus
like the Maverick in the beginning of Top Gun prior to
Goose's death. So I think that that's that's
consistent, which I like. Like, yes, he's still like, you
know, a renegade. Like he still like doesn't

(37:31):
follow the rules sometimes. He's always getting like, you
know, chewed out by his superiors.
But when it comes to like protecting his, his squad and
like the whole point of like Maverick or Top Gun Maverick,
the sequel is him training thesealready like elite pilots how to
do this mission and come back alive, which is like really

(37:52):
important to them. That's, that's, that's the key
element. Like it's really important that
they come back alive. I'm really glad that you brought
that up, because that's basically exactly what I was
going to transition into. Boom.
I think part of the maturity yousee in Maverick, in Top Gun
Maverick, is how much emphasis he places on human life.

(38:14):
And he goes out of his way to really emphasize how important
it is for these people to come home.
And you can see even when they're doing some of the
training exercises where they fail.
And Tom Cruise, well, Maverick will say, you know, why did you

(38:37):
fail this? Because I didn't look at this.
Yes. And he said, well, give me an
excuse that the family will accept at the.
Funeral I was like MMM, that's so good.
Like, oh, I was like with it. Like when he said that in the
movie, I was like, oh, my God, that emotional way.
Like, yeah, what's your excuse for like, you know, not doing
this? Oh, since a good enough excuse

(38:58):
that you can give the family like damn.
Yeah, and I think he delivers that with such conviction.
Yup. And and emotion that it, that
it's just it, it shows you how far the character has come.
Yep, he still like disregards the rules like when they're
about to cancel the program or like take away his position.

(39:22):
He like, you know, post office stunt where he proves that the
the that the, the mission, the course can be done and you can
still live. Like this one was great.
And it's, it's like it's a greatlegacy movie.
But not only is that like, it's as you're saying, like this is a
great example for Hollywood. Like this is like proof that

(39:43):
like, you know, like people do want to see good movies and not
just movies like people want to see like fucking cinema.
They want to have like that cinematic experience.
I think Top Gun Maverick not only champions the cinematic
experience, but I think it pushes the boundaries of what's
possible through this medium because they basically invented

(40:04):
brand new camera technology in order to fit the cameras inside
of the cockpit. Really.
Because a normal cinema camera would not fit in there.
You know why that makes sense? Yeah.
Yeah, they. They basically invented an
entirely new camera system, I believe it was with Sony, and
fitted them with wide lenses to be able to capture that feeling

(40:26):
of being in the cockpit right. Yeah, that's very cool.
No, I love like the like the shots with cinematography
regarding like the flights and the aerial things and Maverick
Top good Maverick. Oh my God, fucking awesome.
Yes, like wait, you can tell like we've come a long way in
regards to like practical effects and also just like
recording like aviation, like drone technology and shit like

(40:48):
that and we're back cut. We're back.
All right, sorry ladies and gentlemen, we were talking about
aerial flight scenes and like you know cool shit about tough
gun and then like you know tis the season and we're recording
this earlier than usual, but that's not stopping like our
town from like getting the fireworks off.
So if we had to like cut, we were like with the cut at some

(41:12):
point cuz, you know, fireworks. But we're back, you know, So I
kind of lost my trail of thought.
But you know, the Stew, we just rewound the back and remembered
that we were talking about like the cool aerial fight scenes and
Top Gun and how, like, this is aGreat American blockbuster.

(41:32):
The fireworks are indeed going off, but.
Which makes sense because you know, it's, it's going to be 4th
of July and like, you know, it always happens around this time
of the year that like fireworks go off like the week before 4th
of July and the week after 4th of July.
People are going to be staying off the fireworks 2 weeks after

(41:53):
the of July and like Chinese NewYear.
And it's like you're trying to record a podcast and like your
neighbor's out here, like busting out fireworks and shit.
You know what's funny is like I think I don't even know if our,
if our, if our town allows, allows for that or for the if
they're like a city ordinance, they do.
But it's just the boring fireworks.
Kind of. That's so fucking lame.

(42:15):
But anyways, that was our littletangent.
That's what happened. We're back, folks.
We're back. Here to like round out our
conversations. Fight.
Scenes Yep, fight scenes in Top Gun and how that.
Is segue. Gentleman was like breaking it
down how like they had like upgraded and changed like their
cameras to like really like famous at the cockpit.
Yeah, yeah. So they did work with Sony to

(42:38):
basically design an entirely newcamera to fit inside the
cockpit. And I was telling you about this
before the show, right? Tom Cruise was the only actor
that could sit in that plane. And and actually get through all
those shots. Right.
I mean, it did look like intenseof the way they explained it

(43:00):
when what Tom Cruise has explained it like his character
Mavericks. Like your body's gonna be like
under like, you know, it's gonnafeel like your body is like
being like pulled against you, like your, your lungs collapsing
or whatever. It's like he's explaining like,
yeah, like your body's gonna go through a lot as if as a pilot.
And I think that that that's where really where it really hid
it from me. Like damn, just like just like,

(43:21):
you know, F1 sports races, like,you know, like they have like
that they have to have like strong necks for like the amount
of like GG, like G force, G force that they get their bodies
go through. Same thing with pilots.
Like, they have to be like theirbodies to be trained to like,
you know, get adapt to like how much like strain they put on it,
like from the maneuvers they're doing and while also, you know,

(43:42):
trying to stay conscious while maneuvering the plane.
Dude, semi unrelated but kind ofunrelated.
Apparently your body also undergoes G forces when you're
on a motorcycle. Really.
Because you're not You're not protected by the roll cage that
you are in a car, right? So you actually are taking on.
I mean, it's minimal compared tothis but.

(44:05):
You're not under like 10 GS worth of no gravitational pull,
you know. More like 2, but apparently
yeah, you do. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah. But yeah, Tom Cruise was able
to, you know, sit in the cockpitof these F eighteens and really

(44:30):
pull 8 GS. And I kind of alluded to this in
the last episode actually, or maybe it was the Michael Bay
episode. When I say audiences can tell
the difference between practicaleffects and CGI, maybe, maybe
you can't express it or verbalize it the way that

(44:54):
someone else can. But I truly believe audiences
can tell the difference when they are watching something
real, when people have made the commitment to do this, something
like this versus when you just line them up in a green screen

(45:14):
and then it's added in right. And I think that's that's part
of Top Gun Mavericks appeal as well.
Is you just said, as Tom Cruise was describing, it's going to
feel like, what did he say? Like your your lungs are
collapsing in on itself. Like your.
Hands you Really. Feel like something?

(45:35):
That's yeah. Like, just, he was always
explained like, it's gonna be like a dire situation, like,
your body's gonna go through a lot.
Yeah. And they show it.
Like somebody's like students, like they almost pass out, like
doing the training to G Law. Yeah.
It's like, damn. Like, it made me realize, like,
yo, like these pilots, even in real life, like they go through
a lot, like their bodies go through like, a lot of like, you
know, pressure, just, like, you know, race car drivers.

(45:56):
Yeah, they do. And but see, I think that kind
of adds to my overall point about this movie being about
working towards a common goal and pushing each other to be the
very best they can be because they they really sell the stakes

(46:16):
of this mission. Right.
No, yeah, there there's higher stakes.
This this movie has higher stakes in the 1st.
Oh yeah. But I mean, there, you know,
it's, it's the way that Maverickdescribes it.
It's flying low altitude, tryingto get through this Canyon in 2

(46:37):
1/2 minutes. It's popping up doing the
invert. Right coming down.
Down. You have to hit the target once,
pop up and then you're going to be hit with those surface to air
missiles and then the second jethas to follow suit or hit the
target. Right.

(46:57):
And do the same thing. But there's something about the
way that all of these people, even though they know that they
might not walk away from this. I wish I could remember his
name. Jon Hamm's character the the
Admiral. Yeah, he.
He seems to be the one person tobe OK with losing people.

(47:18):
Yeah, 'cause I understand. Well, like he understands like,
like not everyone, not every mission, like not everyone comes
back alive. And whereas like Maverick, like
he wants like, you know, like totake the chance to train these
pilots to like, survive and comeback.
But like the Admiral, he's like,you know, we might have to like
the job. Like you get done some way, some
way shape form or another. Yes, he I think he's, well, for

(47:43):
one thing, he's a military officer.
Yeah. He wants the mission to get done
right? But yeah.
He probably turns the mission over like, you know, like the
lies. Exactly.
Which makes sense because, you know, military officer, it makes
sense. And, and you can see this when
he temporarily takes over the teaching.

(48:04):
I say temporarily he lasts like a few hours at best, right?
So. He goes from like telling like,
yo, Maverick, you're not going to fly.
You're you're not going to fly this mission.
You're going to teach this mission to like towards the end
of the movie. All right, Maverick.
You're the team leader. Exactly.
So we see during that very briefmoment, he extends the run

(48:26):
through the Canyon to like, was it 4 minutes?
What do you mean? Like he doesn't pass the right
like. No.
When? When, admirable Admiral?
Well, his call sign is Cyclone I.
Pulled in. OK, so I'm a cyclone.
So when Cyclone temporarily takes over the teaching and they
tried to do the test run of the mission, I think he bumps the

(48:50):
time limit up to like 4 minutes.OK.
I can't remember if it's 4 minutes or if it's four and a.
Half right, but he basically increases the time from like
2:30 to 200, yes. And it's.
But I know what you're saying because that's the exact moment
when starts the test run and he lowers it all the way down to
2:15, not even 2:30. He goes 2:15.

(49:11):
And another thing that I think is so good about that sequence
is we get all the match cut editing is we see the grid of
like what needs to be done in the mission and then it's
intercut with Maverick actually flying the course, right?
Great editing. And there's like the faces
there, but like it's like hangman's like he's like, no,

(49:33):
he's not going to be able to do this to see his face, like his
smug face goes towards like the end and we're like, holy shit to
see him go from smug. So I think that that was like
the scene that that one overhangman like to see him like
going like smug to being like, damn, no, he actually admired
like Maverick. Like, yo, shit, he actually did
it 'cause he was talking shit even towards Maverick.

(49:53):
Like, hey, like we're about to do this mission that like
nobody's ever done, not even him.
He says looking at Maverick. So like, I, I, I like seeing
like Maverick put put like that cocky little shit in his place,
even though like he is a good pilot and he is supposed to be
like, you know, a metaphor, not a metaphor, but he's supposed to
represent like Maverick. Yeah, exactly.
He's a new age Maverick. So it's just interesting to see

(50:15):
like a seasoned older Maverick show up his younger version of
himself somehow. Yeah, and I'm glad you pointed
that out because I do like that there are subtleties in Glenn
Powell's performance because as he's watching that test run,
like you said, initially he is very smug.
But you can tell towards the end, his facial expression turns

(50:39):
from he's not, he's not going tobe able to do this to.
And almost like, fuck yeah. Yeah.
Like there's there's an admiration there.
And I think there's an admiration because of what you
said. He's supposed to be the new age
maverick. And Hangman thinks if anybody
can pull this off, it's me. I'm you know I'm the only person

(51:00):
here who can fly like that, right?
And like but just like Maverick,like he is Maverick, we fight
the loss of Goose like he is reckless, he will abandoned or
like leave his teammates stranded in order to complete
the mission. It's like Hangman would met the
perfect guy to fly. If like the Admiral Cyclone got
his way, he would have gone on that mission no doubt.
Yes, because it was Maverick. He.

(51:22):
Wishes he did. Yeah, same.
Like I I really thought he was going to be picked but instead
it was Bob and the the girl, Phoenix, Bob and Phoenix and
then Payback in. Monica Barbaro played Joan Baez
in a complete unknown. Oh.
Really. She was Phoenix and Maverick?
Oh shit. Yeah, Chameleon, that woman.

(51:43):
Really. She really is.
So. And you know who else?
Bob. Yeah.
Plays by Bob. Bob played Bob and Thunderbolt
Asterisks also now available on streaming.
Yes, there are a lot of good performances here in Top Gun
Maverick. I think we've talked a lot about

(52:04):
Tom Cruise for obvious reasons, yes.
But for me, my goodness, the stand out was Glenn Powell as
Hangman. Yeah, I don't think I've ever
seen him in a substantial role prior to this movie.
Apparently he was in The Dark Knight Rises.
Yeah, I saw that too when I was looking with wiki.
I'm like, he's probably some minor character or something.
The finance bro that Bane grabbed by the tie and like

(52:28):
threw across the room because. You know.
How they there's that weird stock market heist, right?
Yeah. But he's, that's just like the
one scene he has. Yeah, he's, yeah.
He's like a minor, yeah. It is a minor role, but I I
think it's it's significant enough to where if I were to
watch it now, I would say, hey, that's Glenn Powell, right?

(52:49):
Yeah, he's the finance bro, thatBane manhandles, right?
But yeah, when I I watched this movie for the first time, Glenn
Powell fucking sensational in this movie because he does bring
that swagger, that cockiness. And yeah, it's obvious that he's

(53:10):
supposed to be the new maverick.It's not, it's not subtle, but I
don't, I don't think it needs tobe.
And I think that that sort of circles back to what I'm saying
about this movie being sincere. Like it embraces everything it
is and then some. Like Top Gun, Maverick doesn't

(53:32):
feel the need to subvert the audience's expectations.
Right. No, I like that, especially with
in regards to like the the character of Goose, like he's
very much like a carbon copy of his father, even like in the way
that he flies like he's and he'slike the foil to Maverick and
also Hangman. He's a cautious flyer.
Like he, he would rather be, youknow, safe than like reckless,

(53:56):
which is like the opposite of Maverick and his rival Hangman.
Yeah, but, and I also like that,like the son is like he, he, he
didn't come from nowhere. Like we knew of his existence
from the first movie. So like, seeing him, like seeing
like, you know, like, it makes sense.
They're like, Oh yeah, 30 years later, obviously the sun will
grow up. And like, it makes sense he

(54:17):
would follow in his, in his father's footsteps.
And it makes sense why he would hold resentment towards Maverick
11 because of like his dad dyingand, and, and pulling his
application, setting him back, Ithink four years from the Navy,
which is understandable. Like I like, I like, like the, I
guess I should say the the emotional like turmoil between

(54:39):
those two characters. Yeah, I do think their dynamic
is really well. Like the the actor who played
Rooster, like, Oh my God, they picked the right dude.
Like yeah, like I I I had to Google like, yo, like dude like
that the guy that played Goose like do you actually have a son
that like they catch, you know, like how like ice.
Yeah. Has his son played him?
Yes. Like I was wondering like, yo,

(55:01):
this. It wasn't, but God damn.
He looked really like the similarity was right there.
I loved. It the casting, I think across
the board in this movie is off the charts.
Yeah. I mean, even the minor
characters make such an impression.
Like we've talked about Cyclone,but also Warlock the other.

(55:21):
The other, not the Admiral, but he wasn't he.
Is an Admiral, but he's kind of Cyclone's underling the one
who's generally more approving of Maverick.
Right. And then?
With the with the code name likewarlock come.
On yeah, and then we have Hondo the.
The yeah, the bigger dude. Yeah.
Said that he's counting. Push ups, yes, that guy.

(55:43):
Yeah, exactly. I love like the small
interactions he has with Maverick, like right at the
beginning and at the end. There's a really good sort of
call back with I don't like thatface Mav.
It's the only one I got. Yep, and is you know, they're
everyone is just everyone is memorable in this movie.

(56:09):
And, and there's even like smallscenes in this movie, like when
Mav helps Penny take the sailboat out.
Right. I really like that moment
because it shows that as badass as Maverick is, as great of a
pilot he is, he's not this flawless protagonist who can do

(56:31):
no wrong, you know? What I mean like.
I think a lot of movies would sort of indulge because they'd
like to make the protagonist infallible, right?
I think an easy example is ChrisPratt in Jurassic World.
Like that, that dude can basically do no wrong every
single thing he does. The Messiah walking.

(56:53):
Yeah, the Midas touch, right? Yeah.
And and they didn't do that withMav.
I like that. Yeah, and you brought this up
before a dogfight football. Yes.
That was what we were recording.Yes, that was mentioned.

(57:14):
We talked about the dog fightingin the air.
I talked about the volleyball scene in regards to Tom Cruise.
He's like he's good for BSH. Yeah.
OK, dogfight football. What a great scene.
What a great way of. Team for like team bonding.
Yeah, I understood that right away.
And then like the Admiral Cyclone was like, what the fuck
are you guys doing? Like what's going on?

(57:35):
Maverick? I thought every second matters.
And Mavericks like I'm building a team.
You want me to build a team? There's your team, yes.
And boom, everyone's getting along, even a hangman rooster.
It's like, yeah, come on. What what a what a fucking great
moment. Like, it's a great scene.
Like, you know, like it's part of like the team character
builds, like building. And it's just it's fucking

(57:56):
great. And this movie has a lot of
great optimistic scenes. Like that.
And then when Bob scores the touchdown, they all lift him up.
Like, like, like it was the gamewinner.
But I love like the way they handled Bob like now I now
understand like when you had mentioned like, you know, like
the the verse cast of charactersand like how they like weren't
autistic or like 1. One guy who's kind of on the.

(58:17):
Yeah, like one guy's not kind ofespecially.
Like they don't. That's not the only thing about.
Exactly. It it's a note, it's it's a
trait you notice, but like it's not like it's not his defining
like thing and people like don'ttreat him any different because
of it. Yeah, just like they don't
treat. Like Phoenix's partner.
Like not. Just the girl like.

(58:38):
And she very easily could have just been reduced to like the
girl, like the female token. Female.
Pilot, yeah, but she wasn't likeshe was treated like an actual
character. Yeah.
And then, yeah, you have Paybackand Fanboy Black and and Mexican
actors, Yeah. But yeah, I think Top Gun

(58:58):
Maverick does diversity extremely well.
And man, there's. I think it embraces like the old
and new generation like it does.It does it really well in terms
of like, like this movie is kindof what I wanted Cars 3 to be
like, in terms of like, you know, like legacy.
Yeah. Like Maverick, like he went,

(59:18):
yes, yes, he went out with a bang.
Like Maverick went down like a fucking hero.
I mean, I, I, I it's a Tom Cruise movie.
So I I had no doubt that like they're going to kill off Tom
Cruise in his own movie. You know, what's interesting,
though, is that for as much as they make it a point to show
that Maverick has aged both in in real life and in context of

(59:45):
the story, is he still clearly acut above all these kids?
Yeah, That have been called to this assignment.
Yeah. And I like that.
That's a nice subtle touch, showing that even badass, Yeah,
even the best, the best, there'sstill.
I hate to say this phrase, but there's levels to this.
Right. Yeah, no, I love when he's

(01:00:08):
basically like testing out like how good like the, the, the the
pilots are and he's like like, you know, like they everyone
bets on it like dogfight. Yeah, yeah, like the, yeah, like
they bet on it. Like, alright, whoever, like if
you lose 200 push ups, Maverick does not do a single push up.
But everyone else, Oh my God, it's, it's just so fucking great

(01:00:30):
seeing like, you know, fucking Hangman, smug as he is, like
doing push ups. Because, you know, ends up doing
like 400. Yup, but that that's more of his
own pride and ego. Like he didn't he didn't have
to, but he he he was he took it very personal, which, you know,
added like that emotional drama.You know what, no thing I did.
I do wish they would have like like rounded out more is like

(01:00:53):
the relationship, the relationship of like Iceman and
Maverick, because he was like for talk of Maverick.
He was like the only two characters they brought back
with Maverick and Iceman from the first movie.
And I really wish the Iceman would have had like a bigger
role like he did have like a like a good role in this movie,
especially in in regards to likepushing Maverick to like hey,

(01:01:18):
like the both the Navy and Rooster, like we both need you.
We need Maverick. Like you need to go to the pass
and like, you know like. We don't need Pete Mitchell.
We don't need Captain Mitchell. Yeah, we need Maverick.
We need. Maverick like both, like the
Navy and like you know your squad needs.
You and I think that's an interesting philosophy.
I want to get back to what you said about Iceman, but I think

(01:01:39):
that's an interesting philosophythat this movie embraces more
of. Like sometimes you do just need
to act instead of. Thinking.
Overthinking. There's a place for it, of
course, right? But I think the first movie was
very much like you said about about learning the value of
working with. I don't, I don't know what you

(01:02:01):
call them, like your squad members or you know.
Right. Which like your team, yeah.
With your team, I think that's very much the lesson of the
first film as where as well as humility and obviously Maverick
learning the value of life and how much his friendship with
Goose meant to him, right. But I think it's interesting

(01:02:24):
that Top Gun Maverick embraces the ethos of sometimes he's just
got to do it right. Yep.
And I really like that like because like that that's
basically Mavericks ethos, like,hey, like less thinking, more
just doing. And like, that's been like
consistent throughout both movies, but at least like it it,

(01:02:46):
it still has like the presence of mind of of putting the human
life like above all else, which,you know, we saw, we saw a
development throughout the firstmovie.
So it's great to take like thoselessons carry over.
And I think that's what makes this like a like, it's another
reason why this is like a great legacy film.

(01:03:07):
Yeah, So back to Iceman and and Maverick.
I don't disagree with you, but Ithink it was obviously tough
because in real life Val Kilmer had, I think it was esophageal
cancer. Oh, so that was.
Yes, so it actually did inhibit his ability to speak.
That's why his a character log as Iceman was so limited.

(01:03:31):
Right. OK, you know what?
That makes sense. OK, yeah.
So he, he was actually sick at the time of filming, right.
So I, I agree with you, but I, I, I, because it makes sense
that we want to see how they developed this report.
Obviously, we see at the end of the first Top Gun that they sort

(01:03:54):
of embrace each other for who they are, recognizing their own
strengths and witnesses. But yeah, I would have liked
some more insight into how they became so close, right?
Especially because the movie makes it a point to let us know
that Iceman has basically saved Maverick's career more than
once. Because he's a he basically like

(01:04:15):
rose up the ranks, like he was like the US Pacific fleet
Admiral or some shit like that. Whereas like Maverick, because
of his recklessness, like he's only he's only ever stayed a
captain. And I found like interesting to
know like how just. Just one rank above what he
wasn't the 1st. Yeah, like the way the first
movie ends is like, what are yougoing to do?
I want to go back and teach Top Gun didn't last.

(01:04:36):
How does movie start? Yeah, I only, I like they do a
callback to that. Like I only talked for two
months before, you know, he wentback into like, what he was
doing, like piloting and shit. So like, yeah, he only moved up
one rank. Still a distinguished soldier.
But yeah, it's just it's a funnyquirk about his character.
And it's like it's, it's totallyin line with who he is.

(01:04:59):
Yeah, it is. I agree.
And I would have liked to see that dynamic explored more,
especially how they became so close.
But I do understand that there were real life circumstances
that got in the way, right. But I do think that the the one
scene we had with them face to face was touching.
Yeah, like it did make like, cuzthere was a lot of communication

(01:05:22):
back and forth. We did see Maverick texting
Iceman. It's like, all right, when are
we gonna meet Iceman? And when we do, it's like that
one scene. So it's like they really made it
count cuz then shortly after that it's his funeral passing
and it's like, all right, well, no more Iceman.
But it was so interesting how hewas like a like a pivotal, I'm
not going to say central character, but he was a pivotal

(01:05:43):
character in the movie. His presence.
Yeah. Because it was still like his
influence, like, you know, the reason why he was able to save
Maverick's career. And like, instead of being like,
kicked off and dishonorably discharged, like he pulled some
strings or it was his influence,his recommendation to get
Maverick back to Top Gun and, like, train up these this not
new cadets, just like these already elite.

(01:06:04):
Yeah. Pilots to be even more elite, to
push beyond, to go beyond their like their own limitations.
What did you think of the third act?
The fight scenes or. The actual carrying out the
mission and then. The but I thought it was fucking
phenomenal. I but of course, like once like

(01:06:26):
they got, they got like Tom Cruise like sacrificed himself
and it was like, I'm like, what a fucking Chad, like so fucking
noble and like, you know, like, and then you see rooster like
coming back from like, Oh my God, like there how, how, how is
this movie gonna keep on going? They steal a fucking like
airplane aircraft a a legacy. Yep, a legacy old like airplane

(01:06:52):
according to like damn, like, you know, a fuck, like talk
about legacy. Like this film keeps on like,
like referencing itself and like, you know, like, oh shit,
now we got to fly an old plane against like these newer
generation planes. But of course, because this is a
Tom Cruise movie, he's a fuckingbad ass.
He's able to like fucking take down like 2 planes and like I'll

(01:07:13):
move out, maneuver 1/3. It's like, Oh my fucking God, it
was fucking, it was awesome. It was cool.
That's what that's what I think about the third act.
It was fucking cool. That third act?
So fucking cool. It's not only so cool, but I
genuinely think it is one of themost thrilling climaxes to a

(01:07:37):
blockbuster film I've seen in years.
I mean, you know what? You know what, what movie I'm
going to go at? Don't even tell me Avengers End
Games final hour compares to thelast 30 minutes of Top Gun
Maverick. You are insane.

(01:08:00):
One is cheap fan service, the other is a demonstration of
practical effects and filmmakingpushed to its limit in terms of
aerial combat. It wasn't just the mission
itself that was already tense. Especially, you know, at at the

(01:08:23):
beginning. Because we see Rooster sort of,
yes, fall into his usual habit and then, you know, he kind of
kicks it into high gear, right, and starts.
Doing less thinking. Exactly.
And then they drop the bombs blind, they hit, but you know,
as soon as they all pop out of that Canyon and use, you know,

(01:08:44):
those surface to air missiles. Fire.
Yeah. You know, it's like a dark.
Fire just madness, but it's justsome of the shots they were able
to capture with these F eighteens blow my fucking mind
right like you know when Maverick.
It's so fucking cool. Like the whenever they're dead,
like the flares and stuff like that, Like that's what I was

(01:09:05):
like they do now. It's like, oh, this, like this
is fucking brilliant. And the sound design too, like
as they're, you know, like they'll they'll turn the plane
and then you hear the right and then they just catch those
flares on the camera. I'm like, Oh my goodness, this
is so good, right. And then the one of my favorite

(01:09:25):
fucking shots is when Mav kind of pulls this like he's flying
slightly above Rooster, right? Tilts the plane, fires the
flares. That's, well, it's the moment.
He's yeah when he saves them. But it's just like the way they
they angle that shot and you seethe F18, well, Mavericks F18

(01:09:48):
from the cockpit of Roosters andthe flares and then the
resulting explosion. It's just like.
I felt fucking cool. I.
Felt like I was, yes, it's just cool.
Like I felt like I was in the middle of that.
Right. And it just feels epic and and

(01:10:09):
heroic. Yeah, no, you know, that's,
that's like, that's what it feltlike.
Heroic thing to do. Yep, and the heroes that the the
heroisms don't die is just like all right, like the heroism of
of Maverick sacrificing himself to like, you know, save Rooster.
And then you see a rooster beingbrave and heroic to save
Maverick to seeing both of them,you know, being heroic and like

(01:10:30):
getting not getting the fuck outof there.
And even Hangman has like his own little like glory moment,
like a thing of rescuing them. Say is, I think everybody has
their moment in this movie, evenHangman, because what I think is
interesting. Maybe this is just my
interpretation is that I think in the first Top Gun you can

(01:10:56):
definitely make the argument that Iceman was the better pilot
than Maverick. Yeah, well, he got first place.
More methodical. Yeah, well, that's true.
But I just mean like even like the eye test.
He might have been like the better technical flyer, but
maybe like Maverick was like thebetter instinctual flyer.
Yes, cuz they really like just like just fly off like like the

(01:11:19):
seat of your pants. I think Mavericks.
Like a better pilot, yeah, but Ithink what's interesting is
because they do try to establisha new and very similar dynamic
with Rooster and Hangman, right?I maybe I'm biased because he
was my favorite of the new characters, but I I think

(01:11:40):
Hangman is a better pilot than Rooster.
I think so too. Yeah, I like, just like, you
know, I hate using this word, but I think objectively there's
an argument to be made that Hangman is just a better pilot
than Rooster. But I understand why
thematically, story wise, character development, it had to

(01:12:03):
be Rooster. Well, I also think like all the
other characters, like they wanted Rooster to be the team
captain. So it it could be the case that
like I think maybe even Phoenix is a better pilot than Rooster,
but Rooster is just like a better team leader.
You know, I don't even agree with that at.
All, I guess. Yeah.
Like a squadron type of leader. Like hangman.
He'll like that. Why are they called Hangman?
Because he'll leave you out there to hang.

(01:12:25):
He'll hang out to dry. So like in terms of like, maybe
that, maybe that, that's why, yeah, he might be like the
better pilot, but Rooster is like the guy that you want to be
the captain because he'll look out for you versus Hangman.
He's going to like just leave you out.
Yes, but but he does get his moment, like you said.
And I think I've mentioned before that this movie, at least

(01:12:49):
the screening I was, that got a lot of cheers, a lot of claps.
Right. When Hangman got that sort of
last kill, even though I kind ofhad a feeling it was coming, I
still, like, bust out with the Hangman, yeah.
Like. Right, like my boy.

(01:13:10):
Man, like I was, this is where Iwas like, man, like, are they
really going to kill Tom Cruise's character?
I was like, Nah, they're not going to do it.
They're not going to do it. And then boom, Hangman save the
day. I'm like, there you go.
See, this movie is just a fucking optimistic movie.
Like, it's just like, I mean, obviously, yes, the stakes are
high, but it's just like, like, you know, you had.
Yeah. I think at least you you kind of

(01:13:30):
know that nothing, nothing bad is going to happen to Tom
Cruise's character. But still, they really make you
feel that, oh, he was really. He's really in for a dog fight
there. I kind of feel like I'm shooting
in different directions here. But one of the most emotional
scenes to me was towards the endwhen they are preparing for the

(01:13:54):
mission and they're they're already on the aircraft carrier
and Mav is being lowered on the platform with his plane.
There's just something about theway that that shot is framed and
it's shot during, you know, magic hour with the sunset in
the background, right? And then you have Hans Zimmer's

(01:14:16):
beautiful score. I, I was weirdly emotional
during that scene. I didn't cry, but like it did.
It's just like, This is why I went on and on about this movie
in, in episode 11. Like it just has these moments
that I can't really explain. Like, I don't, I can't remember

(01:14:38):
the last time I felt that in a movie.
Right. And it felt like very
reminiscent of the first movie because like, that scene
happened and what does Maverick do?
He goes and he touches in plane and as he's inspecting it, kind
of reminiscing like the first movie, how like how like same

(01:15:00):
sequence, like before the mission, he goes, he walks up to
his plane and like, I think the shot looks better than like the
new one, but it's just like the it's like the old shot where
he's walking to his plane, like,you know, like all dramatic and
shit. And then it's just like him
inspecting the plane. Like, yeah, the shot was done
better in the in the remake, butlike, yeah.
But still, that doesn't take away like that.

(01:15:21):
It's still like a call back to like the iconic scene in the
original Top Gun. Yes, and I I love the the small
touches that give us so much insight into the character,
specifically things like Talk toMe Goose.
Right. I really like that, yeah.

(01:15:42):
I mean dude, that is such a thing.
That even like there's this I'm doing I talk to me dad like that
I. Really like that, but I mean,
dude, that that has affected me to the point where when I'm
running races, especially longerones and I I feel like I can't
do this. I'm ready to tap out.
I'm like, talk to me, Molly, right, and I'm not even you

(01:16:07):
know, I'm not a I'm not a religious guy.
But I mean, that's the kind of the fact that this movie right
had on me. That's the impression it left
and. It gives you like that, like the
extra bit of strength to like push through.
Yeah, and you and you mentioned this in the Patreon episode,
which we have a Patreon sponsored.

(01:16:30):
By Bill Online Podcast over at patreon.com Forward slash.
Night fall films, boom. But you mentioned this in the
Patreon episode that that is thegood thing about art.
Like, you could say I'm looking way too deep into Transformers,
but I do think the point is to to find something of value in

(01:16:50):
there, right? And I wasn't trying to find this
in Top Gun Maverick. It just came to me, right?
Like, it's just a movie that that struck A chord with me.
And then, yeah, in kind of my own sort of trial where I'm
trying to push myself to my limits, find my limits as a
runner. And I think I don't know if I

(01:17:11):
can do this. You know, my instinct is to is
to pull like a syllogism from Top Gun Maverick.
Right. Uh huh.
I mean, that makes sense. Like that that, that if there's
an Everest syllogism type pull to like, if it's Top Gun
Maverick, like, you can't be madat that.

(01:17:32):
No, no, I mean, there's. I wish I could put into words
what I am trying to articulate because what I really want to
know. I'm glad you enjoyed the movie,
I really am, I said when we had to take a break during our

(01:17:53):
impromptu fireworks show. Right.
That that this movie is an embrace of the old Hollywood.
Not even old Hollywood, but classic Hollywood.

(01:18:14):
And gosh, I wish I was. I was a true kenophile.
That could. Put this into words better.
Sadly, I'm just a cinephile, right?
Sadly, we're just the nobodies of Hollywood.
Exactly. We're just the nobodies of
Hollywood. I guess what I really want to

(01:18:36):
know is did this movie evoke a feeling in you that you just do
not get from other movies in recent memory?
Because this like I've tried so hard to develop this theory over
or since this movie has come outright.
But the first time we watched this movie, like I said, a lot

(01:19:01):
of people in there, people my parents age, my age, my sister's
age, it was awesome to see standing ovation from everyone
that I didn't even start. But as we were coming out of the
theater, there was this guy coming out of the theater maybe
mid 50s. He had watched it with his wife.
And we were coming out at aroundthe same time.

(01:19:22):
And I heard him say they just don't make them like that
anymore. And for whatever reason, this
cliche saying that this gentleman said has basically
been stuck in my brain to the point where every time I watch
Top Gun Maverick, I just think they don't make them like this

(01:19:45):
anymore. Right.
And I guess what I mean is, there was a time when Hollywood
used to embrace heroism like we believed in people.
Right. And again, I'm not saying that
there is no place for deep divesinto, you know, cynicism or

(01:20:15):
institutions or previously held beliefs or conceptions.
Of course there's a place for that.
But I just, I can't help but feel like we've lost touch with
what makes movies special, that that people go to the movies to

(01:20:41):
have experiences like Top Gun Maverick.
And I'm not saying it has to be exactly like Top Gun Maverick.
We've strayed so far into this kind of postmodern slash
metamodern philosophy of making movies where everything is self

(01:21:02):
aware, everything is ironic, everything is meta.
But Top Gun is it's, it's just honest, it's sincere, it's
unafraid to be what it is. And it treats everything that

(01:21:22):
happens in the film, including the interactions with its
characters, as real, as important.
And I I genuinely can't think ofa single movie that has done
that in a very long time except for.

(01:21:43):
Sinners, 2025. Well, yeah, maybe.
But maybe like not not to the extent, but like I see what
you're trying to. Say see I'm glad you brought
that up though, cuz cuz here's maybe this will help.
Sinners is a great movie. I don't think you and I disagree

(01:22:03):
on that at all. I think it's.
Probably it's the best movie Theyear so far.
OK. Yeah.
So it's both of our number one right now.
Yeah, OK, good. So, so Superman comes out.
Exactly, and streets are saying F1 is at least top five of the
year so. That's crazy, streets are

(01:22:23):
saying. No.
Well, you know, I'm just trying to be cool, yeah.
I was gonna back you up the Hey Man streets where you do be
saying that. But Sinners is a great movie.
But even then, Sinners is a movie that's trying to have a
conversation with the audience. You know what I mean, right?
Because of the discussion we hadabout black people, Irish

(01:22:45):
immigrants, how there's certain struggles that may allow them to
feel connected. And you don't think topic of
Maverick was doing that with in regards to the legacy talk and
being a metaphor for cinema? The analog was digital.

(01:23:06):
I think you just got me, Jesse. I did.
Check me. Yeah, check me.
Got me with your own point too. This was your own point.
Yeah, well, fuck ladies. Like, I think I think that's why
this like the movie like toucheslike such like a chord with you
because like it's it is like a representation of like the
legacy traditional media versus like the new age streaming.

(01:23:28):
And like, I think like, while this movie doesn't like directly
address that and it is analogousto that both through like the
actual storytelling in the movieand like, you know, like how Tom
Cruise didn't want to go streaming, like he actually
wanted to be like that's. An amazing point dude.
Yeah, cinematic. Like you wanted to make a
cinematic experience first? That's an amazing point, you're

(01:23:52):
right. Especially because I LED this
entire episode by saying I thinkthere's an interesting real
world narrative to go along withTop Gun Maverick about.
Is the theatrical experience worth preserving?
Yeah, similar. I mean, that's very kind of a
stand in for Is it worth it to continue to have pilots fly

(01:24:15):
these missions, risking lives when we could just send the most
advanced drones in the world? Because this is the US and of
course our defense budget is through the roof.
Right. But and then you can make, yeah,
the argument like, is there a place for people like Tom

(01:24:35):
Cruise? Like I said, they constantly
call him an old man. And I think that's that's
another kind of discussion that the movie, to your point is
trying to have is is there a place for the the old school
movie star in an era where we value characters, the
characters, the star? I mean, yeah, I can glaze Robert

(01:24:58):
Pattinson all the live long day.But the bottom line is it's
Batman that's putting the butts in the seats, right?
It's not Robert Pattinson, much as it pains me to say.
But, you know, is there a place for Tom Cruise?
Is there a place for the theatrical experience?
Is there a place for practical effects?

(01:25:18):
Right. And I think Top Gun, it
advocates for all these things, and it does so beautifully
through filmmaking, basically shutting down every single
criticism, every single doubt, right in two hours.
And what is it, 12 minutes? Yeah, 2215, it's.
A mean movie. It's a good movie.

(01:25:41):
Shutting all this down in like 2hours, 15 minutes, you know,
yes, this is worth preserving. This is worth fighting for by
being the highest grossing film,a real film, not a superhero
film, not a not a Disney live action remake, right?
Not a not a it's a sequel. Yeah, but you know, it's not

(01:26:03):
based on on an on a book or a video game.
Right. It's not based on, it's just a
sequel to a movie which was based such as off an article.
Yeah, like that. That's where I read like the
original Top Gun was based off an article called Top Guns,
which that's all it was. It's just an article.
Yeah. And they just like made them
whole movie out of that. Why?
I don't think you can call it like a like an IP, like it's not

(01:26:25):
an intellectual property, right?Yeah.
I mean, it's like it's, it's, it's similar to taking a
headline that people see and then turning it into like a true
crime. Right.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, so and that's what
they did with Top Gun. Yeah.
And that's why I feel like Sinners is like an also like a
good example of that, because like I'm on the record of saying
this, that like sinners, like ifyou have a chance to go see

(01:26:47):
sinners, watch it and in theaters today for that now,
because I'm streaming. But at the time when we had made
the sinners episode, like this was a movie that I deeply
thought that this has to be experienced in in cinema first,
like, you know, with the music, the immersion and all that.
I understand, like top guns the same way.
I granted I didn't see it that way, but like I understand what

(01:27:08):
your point is in regards to likeyou know, I'm going.
To put this on record, if they re release it, I'm gonna take
you my treat. I'll for sure, but you know
what? They're probably gonna do it
like when they're doing like an event, like we're gonna be
hosting, you know, Top Gun, the original remastered alongside
Maverick Double. Feature Top.
Yeah, Top. Gun maverick.

(01:27:29):
Like if they brought Morbius back to theaters, they're gonna
bring tough gun Mavericks back to theaters, Yeah.
Yes, Top Gun is a theatrical cinematic experience through and
through, and obviously I agree about Sinners, but my goodness,
Top Gun Maverick I I just wish Icould find the language to

(01:27:53):
properly articulate how much I Ilove this movie.
Right now it's a great film. Like I said, somehow I like it
better than the first one, and Ireally, really did like the
first one. Yeah, I feel like we haven't
talked about the first one. It's because like everything,
it's everything that like the it's because I think like the
the Maverick topic on Maverick really the sequel does kind of

(01:28:15):
like outclass or out Shadow likethe first one.
Yeah. And like that that's not a
detriment like the boy I get it's detriment in terms of in
terms of like us talking about it.
But everything that the first one did right, that's what
Maverick takes that and then builds upon it.
So it's like all like this, all the scenes that like tie into

(01:28:36):
the emotional, like emotional throughput of the movie for Top
Gun Maverick traces back to the original Top Gun.
So it's kind of like we're glazing Top Gun Maverick, but it
really is like, you know, like it it, it it's a sequel that.
It stems from the original. Yeah, it stems from the
original. And like it, it does like the

(01:28:56):
original justice. Now they do like a sequel to Top
Gun Maverick. That's where I'm going to be
like, is this going to be scared?
Yeah. Like, is this going to be a
Godfather 3 or are we going to get like, you know, Pirates of
the Caribbean three? Who's to say?
If they nail Top Gun Maverick, Ithink it immediately ends up in
the conversation for best trilogy IF.

(01:29:19):
If they nail it. If yeah.
Yeah, that would, that would honestly be a pretty strong like
contender for like a trilogy setof movies.
Yeah, this is something that I have in my notes, which is I
still don't feel like I'm doing injustice, but I talked about
how we live in a society. Yeah.

(01:29:41):
A. Society.
A society where blockbusters don't believe in heroes without
irony, don't believe in sincerity without a punchline,
don't trust the audience to handle emotion without a wink.
Right. But this is what I wrote in my
notes. Top Gun Maverick is a film that

(01:30:02):
doesn't just reject modern cynicism, it flies straight
through it, pun intended. It's not a reboot.
It's not a parody. It's not a cinematic universe
setup. It's a sequel that dares to be
heroic and optimistic. In an era of artificial stakes
and weightless spectacle, Top Gun Maverick feels like a time

(01:30:25):
machine to when movie stars feltlike legends, when action was
real, and when blockbusters actually meant something.
And I still don't think that's the the best way of distilling
what I want to communicate todayto you on this 4th of July as
you're smacking down the hot dogs and beer.

(01:30:47):
Yep, but that's what I got. But like, you know, if if you
can, if, if, if anything, if this conversation, if this
conversation can invoke like thefeeling of wanting to go watch
Tom Cruise be a bad ass in Top Gun Maverick or the original Top
Gun, you should. Yes, you absolutely should.

(01:31:08):
It is but a movie that's worth everybody's time.
It really is. It's an iconic, it's an iconic
American movie, the original. And I believe that the second
one is it's well and like, no doubt it's going to end up in
the same conversation. Like, like, I hate to use the
word instant classic, but it's basically instant classic.
Yeah, but I'm going to give it like, give it like it came out

(01:31:29):
in 2022. So I give it another seven
years, give it a decade, and then we can call it a classic.
But I think it already is. I agree.
I think, you know, I think Top Gun Maverick is going to have a
lasting legacy. And yeah, there's still hiccups
here and there. I mean, there was a discussion

(01:31:50):
last year about the future of movie theaters, especially
during the time Furiosa was released, right?
And I think we're even having that discussion now with some of
these early summer movies underperforming.
But F1 made 144 million in its opening weekend.
Nice. And based on what I've heard,

(01:32:12):
I'm trying to limit my exposure to that movie because I really
want to see it. Yeah.
It sounds like F1 embraces the ethos of Top Gun Maverick.
It's it's not the exact same thing, obviously, but it's the
same director. It's Joseph Kaczynski, and it
feels like it's the traditional blockbuster filmmaking.

(01:32:32):
And you mentioned this earlier in the episode at the very
beginning. I think Twisters is a movie that
tries to embrace the Top Gun maverick ethos.
It's obviously not a sensationalmovie, it's not perfect, but I
think there's still a lot to like.
There's a lot to love. Honestly, my biggest gripe with

(01:32:54):
Twisters is that Glen Powell andDaisy Edgar Jones didn't kiss at
the end because. Right.
You mentioned this, I think it was off mic that it's nice to
see romance in a film. Right.
And it is it. It was pretty obvious that there
was a romance and twisters, but then they just kind of chicken

(01:33:17):
out at the last second. Yeah, I did look into that.
Apparently, it was a note at thelast minute from Steven
Spielberg. And I love Spielberg, but like,
come on. Dude what?
Were you thinking? He wasn't.
Yeah. So I think we're seeing a couple
movies with Twisters and F1, depending on when we see it,

(01:33:39):
that are, you know, attempting to, to follow in the footsteps
of Top Gun Maverick and I, I really would have liked to
explore more about the first film, right?

(01:33:59):
But I just ended up being like the.
Top Gun Maverick. Top Gun Maverick, right?
Well, man, what I I can't reallysay anything about the the first
one because I feel like I I already went over it like very
briefly and anything else I say would be like a repeat.
Like, you know, of like, yeah, the fight scenes are cool, but
Maverick does the better the characterization.

(01:34:20):
I already talked about the characterization, but I feel
like Maverick has like a bigger round, like a bigger cast of
characters versus just like the original top guy.
Like the the the characters thatcome to mind is going to be a
Maverick Goose, the love interest, Charlie Iceman, the
rival, the rival and his copilotHollywood.
And that's honestly about it. Like anybody else is kind of

(01:34:43):
like, yeah, there's like an Admiral and instructor, but
they're not as important as the other characters mentioned where
I was like Maverick. Oh my God.
They have way more characters that you know you can't just
talk about. And I think too, the original
Top Gun. I like how it handles the, the
small moments. The, the one thing that I think

(01:35:07):
the original Top Gun does betterthan Top Gun Maverick is the
romance, right? I think the dynamic between
Charlie and Maverick is just so much more earned, so much more.
I did prefer that last month. Better yeah than.
Maverick and Penny, I don't think Maverick and Penny were

(01:35:27):
bad. I think no, I think they had a
more sort of grounded and maturerelationship relationship,
whereas I think Maverick and Charlie have fling.
Yeah, they're they represent more of this.
I think this like 20 something idealistic version of love.
Yeah, and I'm, I'm going to try to keep this as PG as I can, but

(01:35:50):
I think the original Top Gun best love scene of all time.
Right, that's. My opinion, and also the the
original has some really great downtime scenes, like when
they're at the bar and they're playing or Goose is playing the
piano and right. But see.

(01:36:11):
To the point in the. Yeah, we get that sort of
spiritual connection. With the same song, yeah.
Because like, you know, in the original movie, like, yeah, it
was Goose singing it, but his son, his son was also there in
the scene, you know, and I we got Maverick 30 years later,
son, you know, obviously doing acallback to his father playing
that same song. It's just like, come on.

(01:36:31):
It's so fucking great. Like, yes, Top Gun is a great
iconic film. And Top Gun Maverick is a
phenomenal sequel to that that took everything that like, made
Top Gun great and just like elevated.
It yes I couldn't agree more. I love the first Top Gun.
Don't get me wrong, I I do wish I could have said more about it,

(01:36:54):
but as I think as I just proved,even trying to point out some of
the things I like, it sort of carries over.
To Maverick. Direct Maverick.
Yeah, or spiritually into Top Gun Maverick and Top Gun
Maverick basically takes if if Top Gun was let's say like an 8

(01:37:16):
1/2 out of 10, Top Gun Maverick makes everything a 12.
Yep, Well said That that that's exactly how I would describe it,
yeah. Yeah.
So I don't think there's any sort of disrespect for the
original from us. No, it's just Maverick I think
was a landmark, especially as wenavigate this really difficult

(01:37:41):
and uncertain time that is the post pandemic.
Yeah, theatrical landscape, the business has become more
complicated. It's it's more, it's just it's
more difficult to navigate. But throughout all of this,
through all the noise, Tom Cruise, Joseph Kaczynski and

(01:38:05):
Paramount, they managed to put out a movie that I genuinely
believe will be unforgettable. Yes in like this new time Yup,
like this is like 1. Maverick is one of those movies
that's gonna go down like in thetop 100 list somewhere.
It's already in one in yours. But like, like if.
Which is the one that counts, Yeah.

(01:38:27):
If you're talking about movies from like this next decade or
this next century, like this next century that we're in top
of, good Maverick is gonna be. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
agree. Like if you know when they start
making like the top 10, you know, or the top 100 films from
2020 to who knows when. Yeah, like, yeah, we're there's

(01:38:47):
movies in there. We're there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I just can't fully express, at
least not right now, what I think this movie did for movies
in general. I think Top Gun Mavericks saved
movies. I think it's saved movie

(01:39:07):
theatres. I think it showed that Tom
Cruise is the last true living movie star and perhaps the most
important thing art can do. Is it just it touched me on a
personal level? Wall said if I had any closing

(01:39:28):
thoughts about Top Gun like boththese movies, they would be that
this movie showed me that you could still find like true
inspirational, just like a Hollywood blockbuster through
like, you know, the, the, the medium of like a a military
movie, like it's not over the top with the American
patriotism. It's very like grounded in the

(01:39:50):
stakes and like what the what the movies trying to portray.
And I really like that. Like it's grounded.
It's simple at the first movie, it's a simple story.
Second movie. It elevates the stakes.
But there it's never like over the top like like like other
like war epic movie. Like it's it's not trying to be
like an epic story. It's just trying to be like a
like the first movie, a vibes only movie.

(01:40:12):
Second movie is just like, you know, like more good vibes, but
like more optimistic vibes. And I think like this film, like
both films, like they're really important to like what like just
like, just like the film cultureand just like the legacy of
films. These both movies I think they
they left their stamp. Yes, I agree.

(01:40:33):
And yeah, I wanted to backpack off of one thing you said there,
which is that I don't think thatthese two movies are sort of
celebrations of the military. I, I don't think it, I don't
think it comes off as propagandato me.
No it doesn't. That's that's obviously the

(01:40:55):
framework for the story, but I don't think at the heart of
either Top Gun or Top Gun Maverick that it's about U.S.
military. Yeah, yeah, like.
Listen, Michael Bay directed it then it might be.
That's what I'm saying. Like it wasn't like too on the
nose about it. It was like, yeah, it was still
like, like when I watched the movie, I'm like, damn, like, is

(01:41:17):
this what America can be? Is this what?
Is this what we can be as Americans?
That's what I'm saying. Everything that I was trying to
say, Top Gun Maverick believes in the good inhumanity.
No blockbuster in the past. I don't even know how long has

(01:41:38):
done that. And it's like it just it just
does it like in a subtle wave where it's like any other movie.
Like I, I threw Michael Bay in there as a joke for like if it
was directed by Michael Bay, Oh my God, the amount of American
flags we'd be seen. Or is fucking Zack Snyder like
the the amount of like imagery about?

(01:41:59):
Like, you know, it is like guns.Yeah, shell casing, celebrating
our troops and stuff like that. Like, no, like, yes, these
characters talking characters were like, you know, obviously
Navy, Navy pilots, but like it wasn't drawing like that was
like the the heavy focus of likethe story, which, you know, just
like it made me feel good to be an American.

(01:42:19):
And I say that in secret confidants.
It makes up. To be good, to be a human being.
That. Too.
And that's gosh, you, you, you, man, I'm so glad you said that.
That is exactly everything I wastrying to say.
It makes you feel good about being an American, about being a

(01:42:41):
human being, because it shows you the good side of these
people. And yeah, look, I'm not trying
to get into it, especially on the 4th of July, right?
But these, yeah, this has been aa divisive time for our country.

(01:43:01):
And I think that is perhaps the most magical, unifying quality
of Top Gun Maverick. Yep.
Is it? It did generate those feelings
in you. So having said that, I think my
job is done, ladies and gentlemen.
No joke. He's done it again.

(01:43:22):
I've I've. Recommended someone else.
I've recommended a lot of moviesto Jesse through this show
alone, but the one movie that I was like most anxious to hear
his thoughts about was Top Gun Maverick.
Even if he said, oh, I hear here's some flaws with the
Batman I have, I wouldn't love it, but I'd survive if he came

(01:43:47):
in here and said I don't understand the hype about Top
Gun Maverick. I think part of my soul would
have like. Yeah, I thought it was pretty
mid guys like Top Gun Maverick, more like Top Gun Midrick now.
Man, but a great film. GNX.
Yep. Truly, Yeah.

(01:44:09):
This movie was made for, like all generations.
Like, like, yeah. Like that guy, that 50 year old
that walked out of the movie theater like he was, he was
probably like a 12 year old kid when he watched the original 1.
Probably. So like for him, like watching
like Maverick, it was like, Oh yeah.
That was like, great for nostalgia, but also like, just
like the new cast, like, you know, like Glenn Powell and like
the younger characters, like, itwas great for like, you know,

(01:44:31):
Gen. Z.
Like they don't know who Tom Cruise is like, but they know
Glenn Powell. Well, this movie's for you.
Yeah, it is. That's well said.
Yeah, well said. I don't think I could have given
any more eloquent closing thoughts than what you said
about that. It it generated those feelings

(01:44:53):
of pride in you. That's basically everything.
Yes, that's basically everythingthat I was trying to express.
Yes now everyone take a shot for4th of July.
If you're if you're over the ageof 21 yes, because I I will be
drinking alongside this 4th of July Fiesta talking about Top

(01:45:15):
Gun Maverick yes and the original Top Gun.
But you know, this is a top Gunsepisode, yes?
This is this is this is technically a Top Gun both
movies episode but focused majority on Maverick.
It's OK if they make a tough gunthree, we'll circle back and
talk about tough gun one and really like how we set, how we
set the seeds for like the following sequels that that

(01:45:37):
followed. Yes, and how it served as a
precursor for Michael Bay's aesthetic.
Exactly. Please more tough gun content to
come. So stay tuned, Yes, but anyways,
enjoy your 4th of July, ladies and gentlemen.
I hope you enjoyed listening to us talk film and just like talk
about Top Gun and how Tom Cruiseis like a truly American iconic

(01:46:01):
superstar. Yes, I hope you all enjoy your
4th of July as well everybody. Thank you for listening.
I would be remiss if I did not plug the Transformers video one
last time. It's already at 700 views.
Pretty proud of that. I was there when I was only at
17 views. Yeah, and we are one subscriber

(01:46:23):
away from 100. Bro, that's crazy.
So if this episode makes the difference, please go give the
Transformers video a watch a like share it if you found it
interesting, even if you disagree with me and subscribe
to the YouTube channel youtube.com forward slash at
nightfall films. And if you're if you're up to

(01:46:47):
it, check out the Patreon exclusive episode age of bayhem.
I genuinely think it is some of the most intimate conversation
we've had on this on this show so far.
And I think I'm really proud of it.
I had a lot. Of fun.
I had a lot of fun, very fun with that.

(01:47:07):
So yeah, really feel like we like, I remember like when we
did like the first episode of Michael Bay, you're like, I
don't really if I really get my shit off.
Yeah. And then you did like, you know,
the Transformer video essay. But that thing now, like if you
didn't get your shit off there, you really get your shit off on
the third, I think. That's why I'm so happy with it
is I wasn't thrilled with my performance in Episode 15, even

(01:47:28):
though I think I made a few goodpoints, but it, it really was
like a like a saga. I mean, this is 4 hours of
Michael Bay content on on different platforms and I think
that kind of makes it more interesting.
Yeah. So yeah, thanks for everybody
who has checked it out thus far,but if you haven't, definitely

(01:47:52):
go give it a shot. And that that Patreon exclusive
episode is available even if you're not a member for the low,
low price of $3. Only three dollars?
Wow. Yes, less than a Starbucks
Venti. Exactly less than a Starbucks
Venti, it's. Crazy.
Man, what a great deal. I know.

(01:48:16):
Yeah. All right.
Thank you for listening, everybody.
Thank you to Levi for composing the intro music.
Thank you to Jesse for the artwork and of course, if you
enjoyed your time here, the mostimpactful thing you can do is
follow the show on Spotify. Other than that, take care.

(01:48:39):
That is all that we have for youtoday.
Peace Plants. Namaste.

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