Thunderbolts* Gives the MCU a Pulse

Episode Transcript
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(00:16):
Be inspired to. Do things differently.
Hey everyone, this is Below the Line podcast brought to you by
the nobodies of Hollywood. I'm Dylan.
Yo, what's going on, guys? This is Jesse.
Welcome back to episode 9 of Below Line Podcast.
Next to me is Dylan, and next tome again is.
Pass and we will give you our educated, uneducated and

(00:39):
somewhere in between opinion on certain movies.
I don't like how you pointed at me and I was the uneducated 1.
That was just coincidence. I was doing 123.
Interesting. All right, guys.
So it's been a week. I think we've seen a lot of
movies in that time. Have you?
I saw at least 2. I saw two as well.
Then I. Saw two as well.

(00:59):
Take Note 3 I watch 3 all right cuz we watch all together.
We watch 2D. Oh yeah, we watch until.
Dawn and then I no, wait, that'sfine.
Oh, right. I watched The Sinners, Until
Dawn, Watchmen, and. Oh, if we're counting movies we
watched at home, then I watched a ton of.
Movies like it was him that I was.

(01:22):
All right, what kind of movies Iwatched at home?
I'm at least at 3:00. That's a good number.
Victor, you were the one that saw until dawn.
So like, tell us about it. Because I did not go.
I was not. I was not invited.
Because you hate me. I wasn't invited because I
wasn't sure how it would all youguys would take seeing a scary
movie. I would have said no, but it

(01:43):
would. You did.
Say no, That's the problem, I asked you.
I asked you ahead of time and you were like, we should,
because I was like we should watch sinners and until Dawn's
like I'm and you said I'm OK with watching sinners until
dawn. You're on your own.
And doesn't say that. OK, you know what?
I'll give you that. And I wasn't aware that Dylan
had expanded on his ability to handle scary movies.

(02:05):
So it's like, otherwise I would have invited him as well.
And honestly, it's a good movie.It how does it, I'm not going to
make the comparison between the the game and the movie, but as a
movie, I, I, I thought it was very interesting.
I don't, I don't want to get toobig into the details because
that's not the discussion for today, but I will save it for

(02:27):
when we do talk about scary movies together.
Fair enough. All right, Yeah.
What is the discussion of today?Tell me.
Come on, leave it. I I know, I know.
I just figured. Today we're going to be talking
about Thunderbolts Asterisk, andby God, I can't believe it.

(02:50):
Everyone. They fucking did it.
This kind of destroys my entire gimmick on TikTok.
So in a way, it pains me to admit this, but Thunderbolts,
it's good. It might even be really good
after a revisit. Oh shit, did you watch it again?

(03:12):
No I'm gonna wait till it hits streaming in VOD but that's what
I mean. It might be really good
depending on what I think after I rewatch.
But upon an initial watch, you enjoyed it, right?
100% I think it is the best MCU movie if we don't count
Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3.

(03:33):
And the only reason I don't, theonly reason I don't is because
it's it's not even an MCU film. It's a James Gunn film.
So of course it was going to be good.
It was his swan song before James Gunn FO Ed and went to DC
to Barry Marvel. So if you don't count Guardians
3, which I know, yes, that is a little ridiculous because it is

(03:56):
an MCU movie. It's OK, you're a little
ridiculous. Yeah, damn shots.
What you think? This is an opinion piece.
Come on. Sure, so if you don't count
Guardians Three, I think Thunderbolts is the best MCU
film since Avengers Infinity War.
Dang. You know, that's fair.

(04:18):
I was. I was right next to Dylan when
we watched this movie. And somewhere in the middle he
was like, yo, like, does this movie?
Does it have the sauce? Yeah.
This movie, say that this movie.Has the sauce.
He said that next to me. He he was what he was saying no
it. Was during the Bucky motorcycle.

(04:38):
Chase, OK, He was yeah, yeah. When they were escaping and he
was like, like, yo, like, I think this movie has like the
sauce. And then later on, I was like,
something else is happening. I was like, yo, Dylan, you were
right. Like they're they're, they're
cooking with this one. And then we left the movie
theater and I was like, this movie did not have to be this
good. Like.
And then Dylan brought up like, yo, like someone locked up Kevin

(05:00):
Feige in like in the basement because there was very little.
Bob Iger there. Was very little like Marvel,
Marvel quirkiness in this movie.Like there was, I mean, there
was still the Marvel humor was still there, but it I think it
was it was limited. There wasn't that much of it in
it. And I that made the movie so

(05:20):
much better like this movie did not deserve to be as good as it
was like they they were like whoever like scream roll and did
all this. They they were cooking with this
one. Yeah, and I remember we asked
this about Dylan. Apparently he said that.
Jake Schreyer directed Thunderbolts Asterisk, and he

(05:42):
was the director for the majority of a fantastic
miniseries on Netflix called Beef, which addresses
coincidentally a lot of similar themes that we see here in
Thunderbolts. But he did a phenomenal job with
this movie. The movie was written by Joanna
Callow and Erik Pearson. Erik Pearson wrote the majority

(06:07):
of Beef, I believe, and Joanna Callow has written some of the
best episodes of The Bear. So the pedigree of the staff
here was more than sufficient. It was just a matter of whether
or not Marvel would give the film makers control of the
movie. Because for years and years, too

(06:30):
many MCU films have felt like they were made by committee.
And we saw that earlier this year with the sanitized, watered
down hatchet job that was Captain America.
Brave. No world.
Yeah. This movie was way better.
It's going to be at the end of the year.
It's going to be for best marvelmovies or in the order it's

(06:53):
going to be Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four and brave in the
world. It's not a hard to take because
I I think everyone, I don't think there's going to be anyone
that's going to disagree with disagree with that that has like
more than one brain cell in their head.
Anybody that disagrees with that, like I'm sorry you you're
mentally ill. I don't think that's a hot take

(07:14):
at all, because Thunderbolts wasso good that I think it's hard
to imagine Fantastic Four being better.
Even if Fantastic Four quote UN quote delivers, is it going to
be able to reach the emotional and thematic highs of
Thunderbolts? I don't think so.
I don't think so either. I'm willing to give it a try,
and that's probably why I'm going to watch Fantastic Four

(07:35):
without you 2. You do that, you do that.
You, you, you will be the contrarian.
Is that what that is? Yeah.
I just feel like if I'm with youtoo, you guys are just going to
be saying random stuff throughout the movie.
Like, Oh my fucking God, why'd you do that?
Or just like expressing your opinions in the middle.
Of did you do that during Thunder Falls?

(07:56):
You. Didn't you held on till the end
credits and then you just let go?
Yeah, you're welcome. Because it was a good movie,
yeah. Have me glued in my seat.
Actually, I think no, that was adifferent movie.
No. Was it Thunder?
No. Yeah.
That was that was sinners. I was thinking like, yo, like I
was about to get ready to leave.And then we we sat back down.
But I was, I was sinners. Yeah, that was sinners just just
because we weren't expecting an end credit.

(08:17):
Scene yeah, like the post and I'm the post credit but like the
end scene yeah, it was a lot longer than I thought I was
getting ready to leave like I was I was up they started
playing that scene I sat down like at the edge of my seat and
then the scene kept on going I'mlike let me sit back down and.
Then you're like, and it's over and you're like, Dang, I have to
get up now. No.
But that wasn't That was a really good movie.

(08:38):
Not the movie that we're talkingabout, but Sinner's also a
really, really good movie. If you haven't checked it out
already, it's definitely worth awatch, even if it's even if
you're not a fan of the horror genre.
I feel like that's a good entry level.
It's not too. It's not too like, not too
scary, not like it won't push you away.

(08:58):
Yeah, it's an enjoyable experience even if you aren't a
major horror movie fan. Yeah, I think, I think we
brought up this point in a previous episode about how we
should there should be more original movies, both
Thunderbolts and Sinners. I feel like they were original
movies more so Thunder, more more so Sinners, just given the
the context of Thunderbolts being a superhero movie and all

(09:21):
that. But Thunderbolts, man, like that
that movie, I I liked it more than I thought I was going to
like it when I saw the trailer for it few months back or last
year, I didn't think it was going to be anything like to
write home about. I just thought, OK, this is just
going to be another. I don't want to call it

(09:42):
Guardians of the Galaxy, but it was going to be like another
movie that focuses focuses on these characters that we know
nothing about or whatever. This movie made me give a shit
about these characters like in away that I didn't think I was
going to. I was like, damn, I really I
love Yelena. Like she was my favorite and she
was the the emotional anchor of this entire movie, I think.

(10:05):
And I was she. It was it was definitely her
movie and I also. Love, Bob.
Oh yeah, it was definitely her movie.
And she's like the new Black Widow, so I've heard.
She's the better one, too. But why?
Just cuz she's Bond. Yes, but because I think
Florence Pugh is a much better actress than Scarlett Johansson.

(10:27):
OK. I think I agree with what you
said, that Elena is more or lessthe star of Thunderbolts.
It's basically her movie. In a weird way.
It's kind of a backdoor sequel to Black Widow because you don't
just have Elena in this movie, you also have Red Guardian who
is incredibly cringe. But every single time

(10:50):
Thunderbolts feels like it's about to falter from a story
perspective, or just maybe the pacing is a little off, Florence
Pugh is able to bring you back into the movie.
She does the movie star thing where she centers the film and
makes you care. Marvel is lucky to have an
actress of Florence Pugh's pedigree and they need to lock

(11:13):
her up for the next 10 years. Because if they don't, they will
regret it. She brings a really strong
presence to this movie. At times she's extremely
maternal, but at the same time, she can be raw and vulnerable
and sharp when she needs to. She brings such a layered

(11:36):
performance here in Thunderbolts.
I just don't think we've seen that from Scarlett Johansson,
and I understand. Yes, she got her solo movie way
too late. Yeah, but Scarlett Johansson was
just never treated with this kind of care from the writers.
That said, Scarlett Johansson was unfortunately largely in

(12:00):
movies directed by Joe and Anthony Russo.
What about her other movies though?
You mean her non MCU movies? Yes.
She's all right. She's a she's a good actress.
I just think Florence Pugh is Florence Pugh is this
generation's Timothy Chalamet for women.

(12:23):
So you're excited to see her in other movies outside?
Of the yes, absolutely. What do you think she would be
good in like genre wise? Have you seen Nitz Marr?
Oh, she's already in movies. OK, that's great.
Which one? What's What's it about?
I've. Seen Mitch?
Samar, I have not, but I like your.
Just tell me you're joking. I'm not joking.
What are you talking you? Call yourself a horror.
Fan. What are you talking about?

(12:44):
Hold on, Mitch. Samar Florence Pugh She goes
with her boyfriend to Sweden to visit this supposed commune, but
it ends up being a Pagan cult and it turns into a drug induced
nightmare. I think I have seen that,
actually, but I don't know what by its name.
Hold on. I'm trying to remember.
Because, you know, the crazy thing is there are like multiple

(13:06):
horror movies with that saying my description.
I've seen them all, most of them.
How do you spell it? I'm going to look it up.
MIDOMMAR. MID.
Florence Pugh was also in the Greta Gerwig classic Little
Women. Oh damn, so she's been acting

(13:27):
for a while? I thought she was like a young
actress. Yeah, me too.
Well, she's young, but. Like younger?
Similar to what we were saying about Jack Quaid, I think
Florence Pew is really starting to develop into an actress that
is really going to command a lotof attention.
That's why I compared her to Timothy Chalamet because in a

(13:49):
very, I think similar way, Timothy Chalamet was kind of on
the same career trajectory as Florence Pew, where he was in
these smaller indie art house movies and he felt kind of
trapped in that, similar to the way Florence Pew did.
But then Timmy broke out of thatwith Dune and Florence Pew I

(14:13):
think broke out of that. I would say with Little Women,
but I'm sure a lot of people would disagree and say Midsummer
but. The point is, I'm going to say
Black Widow I. Think Florence Pew did end up
doing something very similar to Timothy Chalamet in the sense
that she is developing into the female powerhouse of Hollywood

(14:37):
for this generation. I hope so because I I really
liked her in this movie and I. I'd like to see more of her.
I would like to see more of her,but if Marvel locks her down for
the next 10 years, then I mean, it's gonna be great for her
career because it's gonna like boost her media media presence
and like the more Marvel film she's in, the more additional

(14:58):
other side project projects she'll she'll be able to do.
Like I think there's a lot of people that like once once they
started doing Marvel films like Boom, their popularity,
popularity skyrocketed. Mark Ruffalo, like I know he was
in movies before prior to the MCU, but I think after the MCU
he started getting bigger roles than what he was getting before.

(15:19):
It was in everything. Yeah, I would agree with that.
And I understand your reservations about Florence Pugh
being trapped in the Marvel machine, because obviously I'm
not supportive of. The Marvel.
That idea, yes, but I think Florence Pugh has shown enough
to where she knows how to chooseher projects wisely because she

(15:42):
is always in interesting movies.Have you seen Don't worry
Darling a good person? No, she was in Dune Part 2.
She was the emperor's daughter. Oh shit, I didn't.
I didn't. Recognize she was the emperor's
daughter. Huh.
So she has been in a lot of good, interesting movies and I
think she always comes prepared.He's good, excited to see more

(16:06):
of her. Me too, especially because like,
we were saying that this movie feels like it, it was made by
the creatives. It wasn't made by the Disney
Movie Committee except for like for the final post cutscene, but
we'll talk about that when we get to it.
Spoilers eventually. Yeah, let's, let's start in the
beginning then. All right, spoilers until insert

(16:29):
timestamp here. Whatever.
All right, so let's get into it.Victor, how important is an
opening scene in a movie? I'd say it is the most important
part of a movie. That is great to hear because
Dylan and I missed the 1st 10 minutes of this movie.
I made-up for it though. I went sailing on the seven

(16:49):
seas, wink wink. Yeah, we so we came in early.
You know how the movie? Theater, bro, we came in on
time. No, we actually came in a
little. Early.
Oh, shit, you're right. No, we did, yeah.
I think we were 3 minutes early and we're like, let's just look
for seats while the commercials before the trailers start
because that's what happens whenyou're early.
You know, I know it's crazy. Most people just, they come in a

(17:12):
couple minutes after and get stuck with the trailers.
But before the trailers there's actually ants and before that
it's total darkness. But we came in and we're like,
OK, let's find seats because Dylan was running unusually
late. And yeah, we decided to go look
for seats when we saw that the movie was starting.

(17:34):
And we're like, oh, shoot, that sucks.
So we had already, even I missedlike the first couple of
minutes. I've got to I missed the jumping
off the building scene, which I would have liked to see.
Yeah, I missed all that. But I got to see the rest and
Jesse left to go check on Dylan and while he was gone they

(17:55):
missed the the most. Critical aspect of the entire
movie? Exactly.
Yeah. I would disagree with that
personally because I did go backand was able to watch that
opening scene. I think the most effective thing
it did was set the tone for the film and establish Elena's

(18:16):
character. If you want to hook me for a
movie, all you need to do is take the main character and have
them monologue about how depressing and monotonous their
life is. I'm already in at that point, so
you just have to continue to make the right decisions
afterwards. I think that was the most
effective thing that the openingscene did.

(18:36):
But what I will say too about Yelena jumping off the second
tallest building in the world isthat Florence Pugh actually did
that. And you could tell that it was
practical stunt work and not this awful, artificial, horrible
looking cheap CGI that Marvel has been doing for way too long

(18:59):
at this point. You can feel the real texture
and presence that practical stunt work gives a film, and
that is probably the most important thing that this
opening sequence actually does, apart from establishing the
tone. That's interesting.

(19:23):
See, I, I didn't see the openingscene, but I think eventually I
will either on VOD or on 7 seas.But I like, I like they're nice
guys. I like that you brought that up
that like you set the tone for the movie because I thought the
for it being a Marvel movie, I thought it handled the themes,

(19:44):
like the themes, the themes thatit presented.
I thought they were very well done for a Marvel film.
Like it dealt with the themes oflike depression, loneliness.
It got a little nihilistic at the end.
I was like, damn, this movie's kind of like dark for a for a
Marvel film again. But like I was not expecting

(20:05):
this kind of caliber of emotionsfrom a Marvel film.
Like it, it took me there like Ididn't cry, but I was like,
damn, this, this movie, it's making me feel emotions.
I didn't know that Marvel film can make me feel this way post
end game. Well.
Said, I agree with you because to an extent I think you can

(20:26):
definitely make the argument about the level of tact with
which Marvel handled these themes.
But considering it is an MCU film, I appreciate that they not
only address these themes, but that they actually chose to
reflect on them and and look at them in a meaningful way.

(20:48):
Because in the past, Marvel has flirted with more serious
themes. They have flirted with genuine
human emotion, like in One Division.
But then at the last minute theydecide, Oh no, that's a little
too real for the audience, so let's give them stupid CGI
fights and boner jokes. They did it again in the

(21:10):
penultimate episode of Moon Night and they decided, Oh no,
that's a little too real for theaudience, let's give them stupid
CGI Kaiju fights. And in Thunderbolts, they were
actually willing to explore these issues of, like you said,
depression, loneliness, grief. And I think they did it pretty

(21:32):
well considering the primary audience for the MCU is probably
going to skew a little bit younger.
Yeah. So I would say they did it
pretty tastefully in my opinion.I thought it was well done.
I was very emotional watching this movie.
I didn't cry, but I definitely got a little misty eyed.
Yeah, like Yelena's character and Bob, like both those
characters, like they were the emotion they brought the, the,

(21:55):
the like the emotional gravitas of like everything Yelena with
her personal issues, dealing with loneliness, grief, and just
all all around just being a person who has to, has no one to
rely on but herself and just carrying all like that emotional
weight. And he on the other side, you
got Bob, who I love the way thatthis character was treated.

(22:19):
Like from the moment he's introduced, he's just he he's
he's a comedic relief character.Just like who's in?
Yeah, Bob, like even the way they, they, they, they say his
name like Bob, everyone's got like cool names or whatever.
Like you like you got the Taskmaster Yelena, Black Widow,
pseudo Captain Steve Rogers, US agent.

(22:42):
Is that? Is that what he's called?
Yeah, yeah. That's a dumb name.
Does that throw off your entire argument then?
Maybe a little bit, but. Like and then there's and then
there's Ghost. And yes, he cool names like
Ghost and then he got Bob like and but but that that that that

(23:03):
that that was great. Yeah, like that was really great
though, at disarming the not only the the Thunderbolt
characters, but also the audience, because we're we're
just watching this and we're like.
OK, where's this guy? Yeah, just.
Bob he he's. Probably going to play some role
in the movie or whatever, but I like when they introduced them.

(23:23):
I honestly thought that they were going to treat him like
like Peter from Deadpool, Like Deadpool 2 and 3.
Yeah, I had that thought as. Well, like, oh, he's just a
Comic Relief character. We're going to throw him in,
he's going to make funny jokes and that's it.
Bob was really important to the story.
And I'm glad that the trailer didn't show that, because
recently it feels like trailers tell you the whole story in the

(23:45):
trailer. That's why.
These trailers, they spoil the secrets.
They spoilers. Don't matter.
Is there anything it's like likeI was watching the trailer for
Homestead and the trailer basically told you the plot of
the entire movie. I see and I'm just like, that's
not really what I want to see. It's like, I want to wait for
the movie and I, I feel like this trailer, the trailer for

(24:08):
Thunderbolts was good enough to capture your attention, show you
scenes of what's happening in the movie without revealing the
story. And I mean, you know, there are
some people that can see it and just like break it down.
Like some people they they just from the trailer alone, which
they just, they were just like, oh, this is century.

(24:28):
And I did not catch that when I when I saw the trailer.
Yeah, but those are all like thelike the comic book nerds.
And I am not one of those people.
So I, I didn't watch the trailer.
If if I ever saw a Thunderbolts trailer, it would have been
while at the movie theaters while the trailers were playing.
That's the only time I I I'm forced to watch trailers.
But I've I have adblock, I pay, I pay for YouTube premium so I

(24:50):
never see ads. So I don't go out of my way to
watch trailers because I want, like you said, sometimes they
explain the whole movie that in the trailer.
Didn't you watch, did you guys watch Death of a Unicorn with
me? No, no.
Oh, that I watched that with. Well, I watched that.
I was going to be like, yes, youdid.
You watched Death of a Unicorn and great movie by the way.

(25:11):
That's not. What I heard, the trailers, it's
like you can't believe everything that you hear.
And from us, I feel like with Caster, if you say anything's
great, I, I, I look at it like, damn, he, he, he said Craven was
good. So like, that's what I keep
going back to like. They that's just their nice way
of saying they don't respect my opinion caster.

(25:35):
Caster, I respect your opinion even if I disagree with this
sometimes. It's not that I don't respect
your opinion, I think you're purposely trolling me sometimes.
That's what I would say. Sometimes.
Sometimes. You know what, I I take back
what I said. Yeah, fuck your opinion.
You're totally trolling me because I know you're smarter
than this. And you know, and either you

(25:57):
either you expect me to believe that you really like these bad
movies. What's wrong?
There are plenty of people that like bad movies and that they
can realize that the movies themselves are bad.
That doesn't sound like you. No.
See, if this was another one of our mutual friends who's a
little rebellious, yeah, I would.

(26:19):
I was. An error with them.
I can't say more than I already said, but if it was one of our
mutual friends, I. Even I know who you're talking.
Like and. And.
He was founding your opinion like, hey, these bad movies are
actually great. I would be like, you know what?
I can accept that because that'syou.
You like shitty movies, but you can't you.
You are a man of a certain pedigree.

(26:40):
He likes to troll people too when he talks like he could see
the person you were just talkingabout.
OK. He also likes to troll people.
Like he won't say something, he'll say something just to
annoy you. Just because like I know you two
share the hobby of annoying me because you enjoy because the

(27:01):
reaction that I get because you're.
Our best friend and we love you and we show our.
Support, they insisted because they have told me in the past
that they do do it to get a reaction from me.
Audience, this is all allegations.
Don't believe anything that Caster says again, he's he's
trying to like he his name is come on guys, his name is

(27:22):
fucking Caster. He's trying to weave his spells
onto you guys. Don't believe him.
But anyways, Thunderbolt districts ridiculous.
Speaking of intelligence, I personally don't consider myself
a comic book nerd, but I think it was pretty obvious that Bob
was going to be extremely important to the story just
given the context clues with which his character was

(27:44):
revealed. Considering he was in that case
when all of the characters met at that black site and fought,
he wasn't necessarily just thereby happenstance.
He was unlocked, so to speak, during the fight.
And given that alone, I figured,OK, he's probably going to be

(28:06):
pretty important. I didn't know who he was, I
didn't know he was Century, but I knew there was no shot he was
going to be some Jackass like that guy in Deadpool Two.
He. Played one part of the movie and
he was the backbone of X Force. He really was.
Sure. There could be no X force

(28:28):
without Peter, so that's why when he left, everyone else did
too. No comment because you know how
I feel about Deadpool. But that's that's another Marvel
movie. And we're not here to talk about
that Marvel movie. And we're here to talk about
this Marvel movie. But we can actually, because
what if? No, I was going to try Bush or
something. I thought you were going to make

(28:48):
a reference to the What If series.
Oh my God, don't even. Don't you know what the What if
has some good episodes? No it doesn't.
Some good episodes in there. Dylan disagrees, but that's
because he hates animation in cinema.
No, I don't hate animation. This is why he hates Snow White
guys. Hold on, hold on.
For me, hold on. I do not hate snow.

(29:09):
White I do not hate animation, OK?
Guys, let me put this on. You want to talk with Steve?
Before the 2000s you want to talk about?
You want to talk about? False accusations.
Everything Jesse just said is a false accusation.
But everything and I'm preparingto defend.
Myself. Because.
I've watched all eight seasons of Suits.

(29:29):
Damn I have only seen the YouTube clips.
How? What's that got to do with
animation? I'm saying Jesse made false
allegations and I'm more than ready to defend my case in
court. Yes, but I have I seen all six
seasons of Better Call Saul at least three times, so I am ready
to muddy the waters. Fair enough.
Good show. Very great show.

(29:50):
Better than Breaking Bad. I was going to agree.
Yeah, I'm. I can't.
I don't even think that's a hot take.
I'm. Glad I'm sitting with a man of
culture here. Yep.
Have you seen Breaking? Bad if you're just saying a
troll if you disagree with theiropinions, fuck you if you
disagree with opinions. Let us know your thoughts.
On leave it in the comments below, but.
If there are comment sections. Well, there is.

(30:13):
They can leave comments. Apparently you can comment on
Spotify. No, this is.
News to me, yeah. I thought you already knew.
But if you guys leave a comment,be prepared to be called out if
I disagree with you. Kidding.
But I'm not. No, I'm kidding.
I won't be. I won't be mean to people if you
guys comment. I will come.
Come at you guys with the same energy that you guys come at me

(30:35):
at all, love. I think that's a good rule of
thumb. Yeah, I was trying to think of
1/3 lawyer movie, but I can't up.
Sorry, not movie TV series. You know, you said, you said
suits, you said better call song.
I wanted to name a third one andunfortunately I can't think of
any. Because I judged Judy I.
Was going to say, I was going tosay, you know what?

(30:56):
I've seen a lot of that. I've seen a lot of episodes of
Law and Order, I think. That wasn't a good one.
Yeah. Law and Order, CSI.
Miami. Why?
I like your Miami. He was just saying like naming
them off and I'm like, OK, I'll I'll add on to it.
I'll name another one. All right, yeah.

(31:17):
So Thunderbolts, man, we keep ongoing on these tangents, but.
177. Like I really like Thunderbolts,
guys. I really like I'm going to sound
like a broken record, but I did like the themes that it tackled.
The the emotional climax for me was like that last.
Like it's corny, but I like how this movie did the the whole

(31:42):
like they, they they they won through the power of friendship.
But the movie did this tastefully, I think, because
they introduced century and like, I don't know how his
powers work, but once he goes like evil super Saiyan Majin
Goku or Majin Vegeta and it starts like disappearing people,
it's like, OK, who can actually stop him?

(32:03):
Because the thunderbolts like I'm sorry like that that I love
the characters, but they're they're all like chumps in terms
of their powers. They they have no powers except
for maybe red Guardian. But even he all he did was get
like knock off a super serum or whatever.
What about Bucky? What about chocolate?

(32:23):
They have like. They have the real super soldier
serum. What?
What? OK, what is a super serum gonna
do against fucking Bob who's like nothing but exact That's
what I'm saying. Like you, but.
You you made it sound like Red Guardian is the only genetically
enhanced. Personally, he made it sound
like he was the best, the most powerful one in the team and
like why single him out? Well, because come on, he said.

(32:44):
A cool name. The Red Guardian.
Come on, you want to fuck with the Red Guardian even?
Guardian's biggest sort of superpower is the ability to
make me cringe. That was a great.
Damn, I, I, I liked Red Guardian.
I liked him in Black Widow too. I, I just, yeah, he's kind of
cringe worthy, but I don't know.I I.

(33:05):
Did not like him in Black Widow,but I did like him in
Thunderbolts. I, I just like to I like the the
comedic effect that he brought to like somewhat serious movie.
I I. I like their jokes, honestly all
of their jokes just because theydidn't feel like.
Marvelly. Yeah, I mean, like, it was like
the chemistry between the actorsand then just the back and forth

(33:26):
felt natural. Like these were actual jokes
that people were telling. And I guess that's what I liked.
And, you know, it's like Red Guardian just brought in that
energy. I was going to say something
else, but I shouldn't that he brings in that bad energy.
Yeah. Replace that with that energy to
this movie and I don't know, I loved watching it, I guess just

(33:49):
because it reminds me of someoneand that made me laugh.
Yeah, I will say I think the humor was much better in
Thunderbolts than it has been for who knows how many years
now, because it didn't feel likethis self referential bullshit
where Marvel was just patting themselves on the back so they
could pause, so the studio couldhave people meme and like,

(34:13):
acknowledge the cameo on screen.It didn't feel like that.
Yes, there were a couple momentswhere the humor made me roll my
eyes and sort of go, but the amount of times I did that in
Thunderbolts compared to the amount of times I did that
during something like The Marvels or.
Permanent eye rolls. The critically acclaimed hit

(34:36):
film Ant Man and the Wasp. Quantum Mania.
I didn't do it nearly as many times as I did during those
movies. I was being sarcastic.
Oh, I can't. Like, yeah.
The worst Ant Man movie. Scary part is I.
Which is really saying somethingbecause they're all pretty
fucking mediocre. Yeah, but I did what I I also I
liked about this movie was Thunderbolts, asterisks.

(34:56):
Thunderbolts Asterisks, yes, in case the audience didn't know
which movie we were talking about.
Yes, but I I did like how they brought like all the villains in
the and then who all the all themembers who were part of the
Thunderbolts, They were all previous villains we had seen.
So Ghost from MN 2, Taskmaster from yeah.
They didn't get spider man. Black Widow?

(35:17):
Who else? Yes, Ghost from Ant Man Two.
Yeah, Taskmaster. From Black Widow Walker from
Captain America, Falcons over The Winter Soldier and Red
Guardian, who's also in Black Widow.
But I did like that they broughtlike basically side characters

(35:38):
and made them like, you know, kind of like main characters in
this movie. I really I really did like that.
It's kind of like how they did Guardians where they just take a
bunch of these characters who I gave no fuck about as as as I
bring the perspective of just a casual.
I don't read the comics, so you're just throwing all these
these side characters from thesemovies and I'm like, all right,

(35:59):
like how are you going to make me care about them?
I. Mean, even in the comics, they
weren't like mainstream guys. Like they weren't you'd have to
be a very big Marvel fan to knowabout them.
Like for some reason they were like in their own.
I could be wrong because like I don't know Marvel Comics as well
as I know DC Comics. But from what I know they

(36:21):
weren't main main guys until that movie and then they made a
show, became a stronger presencein comics and in animated films
and movies. But you know what I liked about
this one? Like the whole Thunderbolt
asterisk, the whole misdirectioncuz I did not see what they were
doing but like let's get into it.

(36:43):
Like the way the movie ended RIPRIP RIP away the fucking
Thunderbolt sign. Like oh Asterix.
When I saw the Asterix I just thought that was just like just
to make the the title look. Cool.
Yeah, like, I thought like, oh, maybe, like maybe they couldn't
afford the Thunderbolt symbols, so they're just using an Asterix
or whatever. No, RIP away the Asterix.

(37:05):
How does the movie end? Thunderbolts are.
The New Avengers. Which at first, when that
happened, I was, I was, I was starting to be a little upset
about it. I had.
Groaned. Yeah, I was like, I don't know.
I don't know how what they. I don't.
I like what they. Almost had me.
Yeah, they almost had me. Then they started to lose me and
then the movie. He fucking said this out loud.

(37:26):
The movie fucking does somethingincredible.
It shows me back my reaction like the the movie ends and then
just shows like, you know, headlines of not my Avengers,
like people, you know, in universe reacting like how I'm
reacting and that want me back over.
I was like, you know what, I'm there.
The actress was great. I know didn't loved it when they

(37:47):
did that video. Loved the ending from the very
beginning. It made me respect the movie
even more. Why?
I had already liked the movie, but to make that decision, to me
that shows Marvel. Actually, you know what?
Let me retract that. Jake Tryer and the
screenwriters. To me that shows that they had

(38:10):
actual fucking. Balls.
To make a creative choice instead of this safe bullshit
that we have been given for the past however many years.
To misdirect the audience like that.
And I'm going to be honest, I saw it coming because before the
confrontation with Century, Valentina told her assistant,

(38:34):
the girl from blockers, to call the press.
So when they sort of ganged up on Valentina at the very end of
the film and she started to backup between this sort of barrier,
I thought to myself, oh, the press is going to be there.
I told myself, she's going to announce them as the New
Avengers because her whole plan in this film was to use Sentry

(39:00):
to basically take over for the original Avengers because his
power alone would outweigh that of the original 6.
But since that was removed from the equation, I thought, OK,
she's going to announce them as the New Avengers.
And she did. And to me, that showed a level
of conviction and courage on thepart of the film makers to

(39:23):
actually make a choice and standby it, knowing that some people
wouldn't like it. Especially because these are
side characters. These are mostly characters that
were, let's be honest, they werenot only antagonists from
previous films or shows, but they were antagonists from

(39:44):
movies that weren't necessarily well received.
Black Widow was a really good movie for the first third when
it played out like a Mission Impossible film.
Then it devolved into this sci-fi nonsense with the
floating fortress in the sky. Came out of nowhere.
Ant Man and the Wasp. That's one of the most
forgettable MCU movies of all time, which is really saying

(40:07):
something. Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
Sure, it had its merits. Exactly, exactly.
It was ghost. It was ghost.
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier had its merits, but it
didn't come together into something cohesive and succinct
in itself. It could have been so good if
more. I feel like more episodes would
have definitely not made it suckas bad.

(40:29):
But the point is they took thesecharacters that were not only, I
would say unpopular, but from unpopular movies and said we are
going to make them the government sanctioned Avengers.
That to me is the most creatively risky thing Marvel
has done since I'm going to be honest, the ending of the first

(40:54):
Iron Man because the ending of Infinity War did nothing for me.
I knew those characters would bebrought back.
I. Was going to say the
introduction of the Guardians. When you try to make the ending
of Infinity War this big shock, but you've also announced that
Spider Man is going to have a second movie a year later.

(41:14):
Yeah, That does nothing because that tells me Spider Man isn't
going to stay dead. Yeah.
There's no impact there. This is the most risky thing
Marvel has done since having Tony Stark tell the world I am
Ironman, OK? I think we should, yeah.
OK damn, I got thing like okay then.

(41:36):
Just say that the introduction of the Guardians into making
them movie was a risky thing just because no one ever heard
they weren't mainstream and no one had heard about the
Guardians I'm. Glad you brought that up.
No, Here's why. Because that was during the
stage when Marvel could do no wrong.
This movie has come out during the period where Marvel is.

(41:59):
Failing to no. Right.
Even the general audiences are starting to pull away from the
MCU because you are seeing the decline in the box office
numbers. So for Jake Schreyer, Joanna
Callow and Eric Pearson to make this decision, to stand by it
and to fight for it, that is themost risky thing this studio has

(42:21):
done in a very long time becausethey are not in a good place.
And I think that gives this movie a really interesting meta
textual element because this entire movie, if I were to
distill it into a sentence, Thunderbolt, Asterisk, is about
rediscovering passion and purpose in the most unlikely of

(42:42):
places. And that is exactly what Marvel
Studios has done with this movie.
This movie reminded them what they can be.
And this is from the number one Marvel hater.
You see, that's how you know it was a good movie, though.
Like a one Dylan over. And as he said, right now,

(43:03):
Marvel's at this weird critical stage where they have to decide
where they're in what direction they're going to take the MCU.
Because what they were doing in the previous phase, which it
wasn't working, like they're trying to build up all these new
characters and like they were doing too much and it's not
working. Thunderbolts.
They had one storyline, they switched to another.

(43:24):
Storyline Yep Yep, like thunderbolts it it felt like all
right like let's go in this direction now, which I really
like love this movie because it did feel like it could be a
standalone like sure, it does use characters from different
films like the worst films, but it did feel like this movie

(43:45):
could stand on its own and then the the end of post credit scene
happened. Oh.
My God. That the very last scene very
last like after all the credits are done rolling, they do one
more scene and this one like to me and I told you guys when we
walked out the movie theater, this one felt like the most MCU
and ham fisted Kevin Feige. That's where.

(44:06):
Bob Iger let Kevin Feige out of the.
Base yeah, because I was all like, because the last scene is
just the the New Avengers now, like they're just chilling,
having fun, telling jokes. And I was OK with it like OK,
this is the the Thunderbolts shawarma scene.
Like, OK, they're just chilling,having fun.
Showing that Century doesn't have his powers, yeah.
Because. But he washed the dishes, so

(44:27):
yeah, yeah. He's a great guy.
He's already contributing. Yeah, but then the very last
panel that shows it references the next movie coming out in the
MCU, Fantastic Four. And that ruined the immersion
for me because this felt like, OK, you can, you can watch this
movie by itself isolated. You can have A and have a fun.

(44:49):
Yeah, you can have a fun time. And then at the very end, it's
like, Oh no, let's remind you that all these movies are
interconnected. I didn't like that.
I agree. I share that exact same
sentiment because I think what made Thunderbolt such a strong
movie is that the film makers were clearly focused on making

(45:09):
this the best Thunderbolts film it could possibly be.
They weren't worried about how it fits into the grand narrative
of the MCU. And I didn't like that very end
post credits scene either. But I will say it does some
smaller stuff like the courtroomscene where they mentioned the

(45:33):
climax of Brave New World. Even though that movie was God
awful. It does small things like that
where it's sort of orients the audience in a sense of telling
them this is where we're headingwith the MCU as a whole, which I
don't care about that stuff as much.
But the courtroom scene in itself wasn't that offensive.

(45:57):
But I agree, Thunderbolts does stand on its own.
It is a self-sufficient story. That's why it works, that's why
it's good. That's why I don't think
Fantastic Four is going to be better than this movie, because
it's going to be too hung up on setting up Avengers Doomsday.
And that's why Castro is not going to watch his film with us.
Because they'll be extremely critical.

(46:18):
I'm OK with them being critical after the movie, but not during
the movie and I don't think theycan hold their tongue.
How do you know I won't be so disappointed that I'm lost for
words? Yeah, All you hear is just like
I'm trying to think of growing sign from that corner over
there. And think of another movie where
you were disappointed and you still made noise, but I can't
think of any. I didn't do that during VVS.

(46:41):
I was just sad the entire time. I'm.
Trying to remember. No, I wish somebody had filmed
my reaction because during the first sort of 5 minutes or so,
holy tangent, Batman. During the first sort of 5
minutes or so where we saw the end of Man of Steel from Bruce

(47:01):
Wayne's perspective, I was thinking to myself, oh shit, the
critics were wrong. This is going to be good.
Dude. I I was, I thought, wow, Zach is
on to something. And then the movie kept going
on. But no, this is where the nail
in the coffin was when Batman chases those Russians in the

(47:24):
Batmobile. And the first car where I saw
him load up the machine guns on the Batmobile and saw him
slaughter them without a second thought.
My jaw hit the floor. I didn't say anything.
I didn't make some crass comment.
My mouth seriously fell open because I couldn't believe what

(47:48):
I was seeing. I just, I was hurt.
I'm like, who is this person? This is not Batman.
He's murdering people like a fucking sociopath.
That was not into crowds. For all like, yeah.
Come on machine. Gun killed him.
Not Batman, but I didn't see hisreaction because honestly, I

(48:10):
don't remember looking to the side.
I don't even remember if I saw it with you the first time.
You didn't. You had to.
I know, I know. But I mean, like, did I watch
with you like your first time? Did I?
I don't remember. We've seen too many movies
together. Yeah, especially like that's an
old movie now. Batman versus Superman, was it
that thing? 2016, 2726, Almost 10 years now.

(48:31):
So, yeah, as the kids say, like anything ending up like close,
like 10 years old, they're like that's, that's old.
God, like we're guys, we're old.Yeah, we're not young.
Wait till we talk about the onesfrom the 1970s, then we'll feel
old, you know? Nah, because it's it's not old.
When you appreciate like movies from the past, that's different.

(48:53):
Definitely. Before I lost track of what I
was saying, You're not gonna watch Fantastic Four with us,
which I think is a little dumb. Yeah.
No, I think it's it's a good idea.
You can watch movies by yourselves, guys.
It's OK. It's not something that you
should feel uncomfortable. I just this.
Is our job for this podcast is to watch Fantastic Four.

(49:19):
Together. Yeah.
As a family. Separately, but together.
I mean, we watched Watchmen separately.
You know, I can't believe you'resaying that, like you're saying
this to me after we just watchedThunderbolts.
And like, you know, as a friend,you should be supportive of your
friends because then otherwise, like Dylan and I could go into a
massive depressive episode and to be your fault for not being

(49:40):
there. For not watching just like God
for it if like if. You're going to have me fighting
my inner demons because you're not there to hold my hand.
I'm not going to be able to helpyou fight your inner demons if
that's all it takes to bring outyour inner demons.
Listen, I'm I'm a sensitive soul, guys.
I. Don't believe that.
I don't think the audience believes that.
Anyone listening you know he's full of shit.

(50:01):
Nah, the audience, I don't thinkthey, I don't think they believe
what you said. You like Craven?
OK. It always gets back to that it's
brought. Back like.
Six times. Every time he's talking about,
even if we're talking about something that isn't Marvel, it
gets brought up. Bro, we're.
Gonna we're gonna make it to episode 100.
I'm just like, you still think Craven's a good.
Movie don't talk to me. It's OK to like bad movies,

(50:24):
guys. I'm not saying this.
You're clearly saying that it's not.
Listen, you can like bad movies,and I can also make fun of you
for it. I like Detective Pikachu.
I'm in no place to judge. But what I'm saying is Craven is
not a bad movie that's so bad it's enjoyable.
It's a bad movie that's so bad that you want to pull your hair

(50:47):
out. And I love Pikachu.
Yes, it's a terrible movie. Are you guys?
Listening to this and I love, and this is coming from someone
who loves like Pikachu is my favorite Pokémon of all time.
It is. He used to carry a pokey ball
around on school. Used to I'm still.
It actually opened with a Pikachu plush.
Coming out, it was crazy. Yeah.

(51:10):
Good times. Were they?
Yeah. Middle school good times.
This is before the Internet. This is when life was good.
It's like. When things were simpler.
Yeah, these are great. That's why horror's my favorite
genre. It's like it's mostly populated
by bad movies. You know what that got me
wondering? Like, you know what, Maybe
that's the reason why you said you watched like so many horror

(51:31):
movies is because you just watched a lot of shitty ones.
So like, are you really the authority on horror?
That's a good question, and we'll find out in another
episode. Stay tuned guys.
Although I don't think I am the authority on horror, I just know
that I've watched. More than on this podcast, you
are the authority, prime authority on all things horror.
Thank you, I didn't say so I'll watch Midsummer.

(51:52):
All right, I will read the Wikipedia about it.
It's. Like, speaking, speaking to the
audience. So I have seen so many horror
movies that they're kind of all blending together.
I can't remember them by their names.
You just have to describe a scene and they'll be like, oh,
I've watched that. Yeah.
But would you guys have a recommendation for your scariest

(52:13):
movie for these two to watch? Because I think that'll be fun.
I can't honestly, at this point they're all the same level of
scary to me, so I can't judge which one's scarier than the
other. But it may be you guys will have
a better, you know, better able to discern which one's scary and
which one's not so that these two can watch it and I can see
if how they react to it. You know what?

(52:36):
Maybe we'll. Support that.
That's a great idea. Hey guys, I haven't seen let me
in, so if you guys can recommendme that one, I will watch that
one. I'll get back to you.
Oh my God, I honestly cannot think of a scary movie because
they're all kind of just the same level of scary to me.

(52:58):
I got so I can't. You know what we need to like,
lock you in a room with the notebook and just get you to
write down like a list of all your scary movies.
I can do that. Actually I can.
I can write a list. I know if I can remember their
names. Exactly.
See, that's why we need to lock you in the room, because you're
going to forget you. Want to say I'll just look at
the Wikipedia and like horror movies and they'll have a long

(53:18):
list and I'll just say I've seenthis one, I've seen this one,
haven't seen that one. You need like what doing what do
you don't You have like something where you track your
films or whatever? Letterbox.
You need one of those. We'll see.
Yeah. I mean, how are you going to
come into work and like not not be ready with like examples off
the Dome? OK.
And you guys won't appreciate any examples I have for the.

(53:41):
No, you guys haven't. Actually.
Yes, I will. Because I'll be like, damn, he
just gave me, he just spat a master class on horror and I
wasn't ready for that. Awesome.
And that's what I'm saying. It's like, what kind of horror
should we I recommend to you just like bad movie horror,
scary horror or deeply psychological or a strong

(54:02):
message with a great story, thatkind of stuff.
Like, there's so many things to horror that you can, even though
it's all falls under the same genre, there are so many
different ways to view it. I like Sinner's horror.
OK. Like, I like tame horror, OK.

(54:22):
Tame horror. Yeah.
I'm not. I'm not like like how you and
our friends rebel how they are with horror.
Entry level horror is what you're interested in.
And I wouldn't even call like entry level, just something
like. It's for someone that's never
watched. That's got like, well, I would
say I'm okay with. Waiting the.
Cool like horror elements, but not like so much like the

(54:45):
grotesque like or that that's like prevalent in like a lot of
horrors. So you don't want nothing like
slashers, nothing where. Yeah, I don't want to see like
people caught up or like someonewalking in a someone walking in
a wax museum and someone snippedtheir Achilles.
Like I don't want to see none ofthat shit.
Like, oh. I'm like, I'm like, that sounds

(55:06):
like a scene that actually. Yes it did in House of Wax.
I have seen House of Wax, that'swhy I'm like oh I'm just
thinking. I fucking hate jump.
Scares and and like I I understand like the like the
like the whole like, oh, you know.
You would love the. Misdirection.
You love the Wrong Turn series. It's perfectly tame.

(55:27):
Aren't those based on a video game?
No. OK, or hostile.
You know how you can try hostile?
You know, I I will try to watch one of those films.
OK, emphasis on try. If I don't like it, I'm dropping
it. I'm like, you know what?
Fuck this. I'm not like I'm messing with
those ones. I'm the most gory movies you'll
ever see. Fuck you.

(55:48):
See, This is why the audience, This is why you cannot trust the
thing that Casper says, because he will.
He will get inside your heart and like, trick you into
thinking that he's a really goodguy, but then he's going to
trick you. I am incredibly genuine.
And you know what? Just by listening to me, you
that that's something for futureepisodes, try to figure out if

(56:08):
I'm being genuine, which I always am, or if I'm just
trolling. Yeah, which I never do.
Genuinely dishonest? Yeah, exactly.
Either. Very genuinely honest or
genuinely dishonest in your opinion?
Yeah, I don't think I'm always genuine.

(56:30):
All right, so then give me your genuine thoughts about
Thunderbolts and why you think it's the best MCU movie since
Infinity War. Besides what you guys have
touched on, So surface level, let's look at the surface level
stuff. Well, not so much.
Weird is it you got deeper? You did dive deeper.
Dylan dove in really deep deeper.
I was going to go into like the comedy aspect.

(56:51):
The, the, the, the way that theywere using jokes to like
sequence scenes, like for example, the, the, the, the
motorcycle scene, which was a really great scene.
And how did they transition to the other scene with a joke?
And it was like it was really well done.
Just like that cut where he Bucky's blowing up all the cars

(57:11):
with his mine launcher, would you call it?
The what? Mine launcher.
Oh, and. Then at the end it's like
they're all cheering for him andthen they shoot some mine at
them and he's like, oh, and or he says oh shit.
And then it transitions to the next scene.
I'm like that. I I I enjoyed the way they used
humors, not just for the sake ofhumors, but they also used it to

(57:34):
propel the story. Right.
No, I yeah, I'll give you that. I think the the humor, like we
mentioned earlier, it wasn't very, it wasn't Marvel humor
necessarily. It felt like this was like how
people would actually talk to each other, like that kind of
natural humor. It didn't feel like forced or
how Marveled usually are. Yeah, well, fuck.

(57:56):
You mean by that? First of all, my jokes are not
forced. My jokes come all night around.
They're funny as fuck. He's got a notepad right in
front of him that just. Says my notepad has Thunderbolt.
Notes Thunderbolt. Notes.
Exactly. Yeah, because I have notes for
the movie. Because I did my homework.
I came prepared. Yes.

(58:16):
Yes. Yes, I came ready to drop the
master. Well, not the master class this
time, but when I come prepared for the next master class, I'll
have notes. I That's going to be
interesting. Watchman episode My notes.
They're gonna blow your notes out of the water.
I'm sure they are. I can't wait.
It's it's gonna be a fun episode10.
Yeah, it will be a fun episode 10.

(58:37):
Maybe even something that might might ignite some competitive
spirits, Who knows? We're trying to be vague while
also saying as much as we can. Guys, episode 10, it's gonna be
great. Be there or be squared.
Episode 9 This is episode 9 and.We're talking about Thunderbolts

(58:59):
and we keep on getting sidetracked, but maybe that's
just how great Thunderbolts is that we just ran out of shit to
say. Because we love.
This so much Actually, no, I canI can dive in deeper, like I, I
can dive into like the whole thethemes and depression aspect of
it, because those are like the themes that I anytime a movie
delves into like mental health or depression, I immediately

(59:19):
like I relate to it right away. Joker as an example,
Thunderbolts as another example,like the way that they delved
into Bob's mental illness along with everybody else.
Yelena like with their when Bob did his super powers to like get
in and get inside people's headsand you saw.
The dark parts, yeah. Everyone everyone's dark parts

(59:40):
Yelena fake Steve Rogers the. John Walker, John.
That's his name, John Walker. And then the other guy, the
other girl, Vanessa. When?
When Bob uses his powers. Was it?
Vanessa starts with AV. Yeah, is that really her name?
Was it? Vanessa or Valerie or no
something V talking. About the villain, yeah.

(01:00:00):
Valentina, Valentina, that's a dumb name, but Valentina cuz
she, he, Bob also touched her. And we like everybody's mind
goes into dark places. And I like the way that the film
addressed that where Jelena likementioned that like, yeah, it's
like Bob, you're always going todeal with this.
Like you're, you're, it's not going to go away.

(01:00:21):
You're going, you're it's something you have to fight
constantly all the time, but youhave to do it alone.
Like you, you have people who love and support you.
And normally lean on is such a blessing.
Yes. And in any other movie done bad,
that could have been a super corny scene.
Yeah, it could have like, like Isaid, this film did the whole
like the power of friendship. Like that's how this that's how

(01:00:44):
they defeat the bad guy in this film.
But I thought the way they did it was great because you have
the, the Yelena and Bob scene where they're talking it out,
talking about their feelings. And then later on you have like
that, that that fight between Bob and his dark half where it's
like it's a literal, you're seeing a literal metaphor of you
fighting your own demons. And like Bob is being overtaken

(01:01:07):
by his, he's being consumed by his own hate.
And it takes the power of friendship and like knowing that
he's loved and there's someone there for him, that that's what
like got him to stop and get back to.
His friends and Red. Cards, yes.
And I come on, like that's just that that was that was cinema.
That was peak cinema right there.
I was, I was storytelling, peak storytelling, peak cinema, like

(01:01:29):
everything. I was there.
This movie like it, it handled those topics really, it did them
really, really good. And it and it's a fucking long.
Time from beginning to end. Also, just because, you know,
sometimes it feels like they shoehorn.
Yeah, into the movie, but like in the middle.
Yeah, or they're doing badly. Like like Thor's depression.

(01:01:51):
I thought they did a great in Infinity War and then dropped
the ball in End Game, but with this one with Thunderbolt and
Bob in particular. Another role of.
The Yeah, like they Bob. He's introduced as a Comic
Relief character. You're laughing at him.
But then as the movie goes on, you're like, you become more
sympathetic to him and then you find out his back story and it's

(01:02:14):
like, damn, this this Bob guy, he really went through it.
Like he, he's just a dude who's trying to like, battle his own
personal demons. And Valentina wants to use him
for her own personal gain. And I can just go on about this.
Like I, I love when films can like tackle those heavy topics

(01:02:34):
about like depression, suicide and all that.
And again, this came from a fucking marvel.
Film guys, that's really surprising.
Yeah, Marvel movie with a theme.Well, they've done things before
like Iron Man. Yes, Iron Man three.
I thought that was a great way of how they did the theme of
Tony Stark dealing with this post.

(01:02:55):
OK, post traumatic experience with the whole alien thing.
Like when Iron Man three first came out I wasn't a fan of it
but upon a rewatch I rewatched it again last year.
I understand better what they were trying to do with Tony's
character and I appreciate it more for that.
Like that they were trying to like tackle that theme of like,
like Tony had a fucking anxiety attack in the movie.

(01:03:18):
And the first time I watched it,I was like, come on, Tony, stop
being a little bitch. But you know, because I was a
fucking kid when I watched it, Ididn't have like the nuance to
understand like mental health and like having those panic
attacks and all that. I thought like, you know, they,
they did it in Iron Man 3 and that was a great theme in that
movie. And Marvel has shown that they

(01:03:39):
can do they can have good movieswith good themes.
It just happens to be the case that after end Game they were
kind of just resting on the laurels and not really trying to
do anything creatively, just make more movies, TV shows and
trying to make more money for Disney a long.
Ago was Infinity War. Bro, it's been like five years.
Six years? No.
Six years, 2019 OK 2. 1018. Oh shit, it's.

(01:04:01):
The worst? Seven years.
It's seven years. It's been a while.
Seven or I was gonna say 07 years, like almost a drought of
movies, except for, you know. 2018 was Infinity War and then
2019 was end game. Yeah, OK, yeah, damn.
And all we got out of it, like the only good things we got out
of it, was the Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, Thunderbolts,

(01:04:23):
Daredevil, One Division, Corny Castor, Falcon and Winter
Soldier. So many edits.
I'm going to add to something that Jesse just said about the
themes of Thunderbolts because the one thing that I appreciated
about this movie The most is thefact that it didn't hand wave

(01:04:46):
away the issues of depression, of loneliness, guilt, loss.
I think in a lesser movie, whichMarvel has given us plenty of,
I've given examples like Wanda, Vision and Moonlight.
They tend to shy away from the truth of these kind of intense

(01:05:11):
emotional experiences. The thing that I admire the most
about Thunderbolts Asterisk is that when addressing these
themes of mental health, the onething that stood out to me is
that they made it very clear it never goes away.

(01:05:31):
And I really like that because Ithink it would have been all too
easy for a lesser movie, for a less mature movie, to insinuate
that having a sense of communityor feeling supported is enough
to get you through it. But that's just not the truth.

(01:05:51):
That's not the reality of these kind of situations.
Thunderbolts was willing to say this is always going to be an
issue for you. It's always going to be there.
It's kind of like this looming presence that's going to hang
over your life. And I think they do a good job
of that with the character of Bob when he turns from Century

(01:06:16):
into that void character. I think the whole representation
of his powers of flattening everybody in the city and that
effects work that was done with the shadows, that was all really
well done. I think it was one of the best
physical representations of a superpower on screen, in my

(01:06:37):
opinion, because I've never seenanything quite like that.
And I think aesthetically, having Void in that movie was
again, one of the best realizations of a comic book
character on screen. There was something very
striking about this pure black figure and just having those

(01:06:57):
white eyes stand out amongst allof this darkness.
That really worked for me. Lastly, what I will say is that
Thunderbolts, again, shout out to my man Jake Schreyer for
actually being a filmmaker and making a visual choice with the
direction. You can tell that the shots and

(01:07:20):
Thunderbolts are actually intentional.
The cinematography has purpose, It has texture.
Even in something as small as the establishing shots.
Jake Schreyer moves the camera with purpose.
It's not just this cookie cutterbullshit that is done to just

(01:07:41):
advance the story. Yes, Thunderbolts is a very Gray
and desaturated movie, but there's a reason for that.
It's because it's an aesthetic choice to match the thematic
exploration of the film. It plays with this idea of light
and darkness, not just in the story but visually.

(01:08:05):
We do have moments of light in the film, primarily during that
desert chase scene with Bucky when he's going to help the
thunderbolts out. But the grey colour palette in
this movie is a choice, and it'snot the same kind of grey sludge
that we see from the MCU. It doesn't have what I call the

(01:08:29):
streaming look, where everythingjust looks too clean.
It's clinical. It's uninspired.
There is actual intentional direction behind the camera
work, behind the cinematography.The movie has a very clear
visual aesthetic and it's not just there to dress the movie
up. It's there because it's to

(01:08:52):
enhance the themes and the messaging of the movie.
Is it revolutionary? No, of course not.
It's a fucking Marvel movie. It's simple, but it's very
effective. But that goes to show how bad
these movies have been, that when I see the first bit of
competency from a Marvel movie, this is how much I'm praising

(01:09:16):
it. That is the state that the MCU
has been in, and this is the first flicker of life that they
have in a very long time. Wow, if Marvel was smart, like
they're they're going to see howpeople are responding to this.
And hopefully then I had to reshoot Fantastic Four, but like

(01:09:41):
they're, well, OK. They've already reshot, God
damn. No, no.
I was going to ask you guys like.
The true vision say it's too late to.
I was going to say like I was going to ask you guys, like, do
you think? No, it's already been reported
that they've done rice fruits. Damn.
See so you know what? I shouldn't say anything else or

(01:10:02):
else caster is definitely not going to see it.
Don't. Just finish Fantastic Four.
I want to hear your point. But like my my.
One more thing to. Say, well, my question is, was
going to be how do you guys think now after this movie, the
now that you've seen this movie,what do you think the directions
of Marvel Cinematic Universe is going to be?
Are you a little bit more hopeful for it now?
Assuming that Marvel takes all the right lessons from this

(01:10:23):
movie and just keeps on doing it, doing whatever, whatever
lessons it pulled from this movie, Do that again for other
Marvel movies. Lock Kevin Feige up in the
basement somewhere. Don't let them near the writers
and creative like let them create a movie.
I think I've seen a lot of people say Marvelous back after
Thunderbolts asterisks too earlyand yeah, way too early.

(01:10:46):
I think we need to pump the brakes on that because before I
say Marvelous back, I need to see a level of consistency from
them that they have shown in thepast.
I need to see more than one goodmovie before I say Marvelous
back. So the people that are
absolutely losing their minds over this and saying the MCU is
back, I. Think it's going?
To slow down. But what I say I'm hopeful for

(01:11:12):
the future. I don't think so because I just
need to see more. This isn't enough.
This could be a flash in the panlike Guardians Three.
I think the cynical side of me says that the only reason the
creatives and the film makers had control of this movie is

(01:11:32):
because the characters were basically no names.
They weren't the marquee A list characters.
So maybe Feige, Esposito and theother executives were more hands
off because they figured, and this doesn't matter anyway,
they're not really the kind of characters that we want to push
more down the line, so maybe we'll let them do what they

(01:11:55):
want. That's the cynical side of me.
Right, that makes sense though. That makes sense because if you
think about it like with James Gunn, his characters were also
like not big. So like, you know what if they
if they don't like it, it's fineif they're only there will only
be a Guardians 1 and that's it. But maybe that's why I don't

(01:12:16):
know how much of A. But like I said too, that was
when Marvel was really successful.
That was when they were just finding their stride.
Yeah, but a bad movie, It's likeyou don't get a sequel.
True. So maybe it's they don't
interject so much on characters they don't have high hopes for.

(01:12:38):
I see, Yeah. I, I see where you're coming
from. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's a good point actually.
Yeah, it makes sense. And after they saw, which is so
then what? What does that beg the question?
Because they didn't learn the lesson the first time, they're
not gonna learn the lesson the second time.
No. Published today, but today the
8th right? No.

(01:13:01):
Like he, just he. Just told them to report that
Fantastic Four. They're already doing reshoots
and this article is just published today.
Why are they doing reshoots? Because they know how good
Thunderbolt is and they're like,you know what, we got to redo
some of this shit. We can't.
Is it possible to for for reshoots to make a movie better?
Yes, Zack Snyder, Possible. But I will.

(01:13:25):
Say. And take this with a grain of
salt because this is coming fromthe nobodies of Hollywood.
What I have heard is that Thunderbolts was not reworked
after principal photography. Basically what I have heard is
that Eric Pearson, Joanna Callow, Jake Schreyer, they have

(01:13:47):
worked on this script for several years.
They took a long time to perfectthis screenplay and only once
they felt it was ready did they start shooting this movie.
They didn't shoot the movie and then say, oh, let's reshoot
this, or let's cut this out and editing.
Let's try to get a different tone in the editing room by

(01:14:09):
sequencing the movie this way orcharacterizing certain moments
in a different light. They weren't trying to fix the
movie in post production with reshoots or through editing.
They took their sweet ass time writing the script, shot the
movie and said we are going to release it.

(01:14:30):
The way that I wanted to tell this story.
I know I'm kind of speaking for my man Jake there, but I'm the
biggest fan right now, so. This goes to show that if you
give authors who have been working on a story for a very
long time a chance to tell that story, it'll come out great.
Yes it will. And yes and no.

(01:14:51):
I guess I see. I see what you're saying.
I see what you're saying. There's there's room for nuance.
Yeah, I understand Jesse's point.
The last thing I want to say, because I know Jesse wants to
transition into something briefly for this episode.
Yes. The last thing I want to say.
John Walker should be Captain America.
Miss me with Sam Wilson. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

(01:15:16):
wait. Hold on.
I got to address this. Hold on.
I got. I got to address this on the
pod. It was so funny because when we
did the Brave New World episode,I was telling Dylan like, yo, I
think after this movie, Sam Wilson is Captain America.
They're going to kill him off after how how bad Brave New
World did he don't even be Captain America.

(01:15:36):
He might die in the first Avengers movie.
Like they're going to kill him off and someone else.
They're either going to bring back Chris Evans through some,
you know, time loop or multiverse shit and bring him
back. But I don't think Sam Wilson's
Captain America is going to be Captain America for long.
And Dylan was like, Nah, I don'tthink Marvel's going to do that.

(01:15:57):
I think they're going to commit to that character.
All he had to do was see John Walker and he left that movie
theater. Like, you know what?
Nah, that's, that's my Captain America.
Bring him back. He deserves his second chance.
And I'm, I'm kind of with him there because if he's into my
thing, you know, they're going to kill off Sam Wilson's

(01:16:18):
character. This whole Thunderbolts that
served as like John Walker's redemption story from Falcon and
The Winter Soldier, from all theshit that he did there.
He redeemed himself here. They're going to bring him back.
Not now like combining Dylan andMike Theory.
They're going to kill Sam Wilsonand then they're going to bring
John Walker as the new Captain America.

(01:16:39):
Let me just make my case here ifThunderbolts does anything
because let me preface this by saying one of my biggest hang
ups about Avengers Doomsday is I'm really worried about how
they're going to assemble this mismatch Avengers team that Sam
is supposed to lead because we don't have a main cast of

(01:17:01):
characters up until this point. And then in Brave New World all
of a sudden Ross is saying we need a new Avengers.
And then another issue is it wassupposed to be Kang, now it's
Doctor Doom. So my thinking is they are
rushing into this and it's goingto be a bloated mess.
Thunderbolts, if it did anythingto give me hope for the future

(01:17:25):
of the MCU, is that it proves you can assemble the team and
make you care about those characters in the same movie.
Yeah. But but my caveat here is that
this singular movie made me caremore about John Walker than. 8.
One hour episodes of Falcon and The Winter Soldier and one

(01:17:49):
terrible 2 hour movie. It's because an inch on one Oh,
I'm. Talking about Sam Wilson.
I'm like, no, I like John Walker.
It's because Sam Wilson doesn't have the Super serum.
No, it's because Sam Wilson is aflat 2 dimensional character and
John Walker is compelling. He had a story arc.

(01:18:11):
And no, he didn't. It came together in
Thunderbolts. You know what?
That I just put someone together.
That's crazy. Because yeah, you, both of you
are right. John Walker had a story arc in
this movie. Sam Wilson had none.
Exactly. And in his movie, yeah, that
that that's crazy. I think Sam Wilson had a bigger
character arc in his TV series and even then the climax of his

(01:18:34):
character arc was do better. Cringe.
But. I I I disagree with your opinion
that John Walker should be the new Captain America just because
I feel like it'll cheapen his story.
I, I, I, I really think it wouldmake it be a good scene if he's
offered to be Captain America again and he turns it down.

(01:18:56):
But who is he again? Would you?
You said. USA.
Yeah, USA, yeah. That that's a dumb.
Name I know what the hell they come on.
I hope they do something else make.
Him Cap, he already he his shield is broken.
Come on, give him a new shield to make him new Captain America.
And he has that Barano. Yeah, he looks fucking sick.
No, I don't. I don't.
I don't want him to be Captain America.

(01:19:18):
Honestly and I don't think like I would just I disagree with
yours agreement. Exactly what you just said
though is the reason I think he should be Captain America,
similar to what Jesse was sayingabout Bob when he was addressing
the themes of Thunderbolts. Asterisk is when we see that
sort of psychological dreamscapeof John Walker is we see that

(01:19:41):
what happened in Falcon and The Winter Soldier is bothering him.
He still hung up about it to thepoint where he was neglecting
his family because you could tell in that scene that this
wasn't a one time occurrence. He's there's on his phone
scrolling through news articles about how he failed as Captain
America, and then he's constantly being given shit from

(01:20:04):
everybody in the movie about howhe failed as Captain America,
how he killed. A guy who was not innocent at
all. I like that John Walker pushed
back against them in that first scene by saying define innocent.
That was a good way because he. Wasn't.
Yeah, you know, because it gave him nuance.

(01:20:24):
Like it's not trying to paint the situation as black and
white. It's this man aided a known
terrorist and they had just killed my friend 2 seconds
earlier and he didn't really fully surrender.
Now I'm fucking defending John Walker and Falcon and The Winter
Soldier when a few episodes surrendered.

(01:20:45):
No he didn't. I went back and watched the
scene. He didn't surrender.
I need to watch the scene because I feel like he did
surrender. Cowering like a bitch doesn't
mean you surrender. But the point is, John Walker,
he's clearly not OK with what happened.
He's still thinking about it. He's hung up on it.
He can't let go of it. In a way, that is the pain that

(01:21:08):
he is carrying with him, similarto what Elena did to that girl
when she was training in the RedRoom.
The flashback that we keep goingto, that's what John Walker has
to live with. But at every single turn in this
movie, John Walker is the most heroic character in the movie.
He shows me more admirable characteristics than Sam Wilson

(01:21:32):
ever has. During the car chase scene, John
Walker, the first thing he does is put up his shield to protect
everyone in that vehicle. And that shield is not made of
vibranium. He is putting his life on the
line to protect these people whohave treated him like garbage up
until this point. Is it and?

(01:21:53):
When Ghost? No, no it's not.
He makes it himself at the end. I assume that they would have
upgraded him since he was now a you know, because that was when
he was so. Low no, it's the same shield he
made himself. And then when Ghost tries to
face through to go disarm the truck and they sort of disable
her with the. Sonic thing.
Yeah, the Sonic device. What does John Walker do?

(01:22:16):
He immediately pulls her in, puts the shield back up,
continuously act selflessly throughout this movie and again
to when they are at the black site.
Everyone treats Walker like shitbut 2 seconds later he's almost
always proven right. He doesn't gloat, he doesn't do
anything. He goes out of his way to

(01:22:36):
protect these people. When they go into Bob's psyche,
he is the first person to congratulate Bob, to encourage
him and say, way to go, Bobby, Ibelieve in you.
John Walker throughout this movie displays that courage,
that heroism that we need to seefrom Captain America.

(01:22:58):
He is the most compelling character in the movie.
Yes, I will definitely allow people to make the argument that
it's Elena. She was and is a fucking star.
But John Walker should be Captain America.
He deserves it way more than Sam.
I understand what you're saying,but I personally think it would

(01:23:20):
be really powerful for John Walker to go through all of this
and then at the end of all of itsay hey we made a mistake.
Yep, you deserve this, Yep. And lastly, the one thing I want
to say, because I forgot to say this during my soapbox, another
selfless act Walker committed was when he cut the cactus and

(01:23:43):
gave everyone food as they were escaping.
Yes, shows his training as a soldier, but again, he is acting
in service of people. Yeah.
I thought, you know what, you'rebringing all that up, man.
I find it interesting his whole character his his words did not
match his action in the movie. He was why he's interesting

(01:24:05):
then. Yeah, no, I agree with you
their. Characters, their actions.
No, but specifically John Walker.
He was a Dick. He was a Dick to everybody.
He's like, fuck you, I'm gonna do my own thing.
Why? But we see him, yes.
We see why. But even though he's being a
Dick and be like, you know what?Fuck you guys.
I'm gonna do my own thing. He doesn't.
He still protects everybody. He.
Took out all the guards. He took all the guards like

(01:24:26):
second when Jelena's like when when they're trying.
Supposed to make a yeah distraction.
When they're trying to escape, yeah, he's trying.
He's trying to come up with the plan.
Yeah. Jelena's like, no, we're going
to try this. And instead of like, I mean,
yeah, he does like, argue back, but he does try to follow her
plan, no? He does follow.
He doesn't move away from it even though the plan went to
shit. Yeah, no.

(01:24:46):
Well, no. The plan went to shit.
He had to improve. Just.
Like he said it would. Yeah, no, but I mean, like,
wouldn't it have been in character for a lot of people to
just like, when the plan goes toshit, do it their way?
Well. Instead, he's still stuck to it.
Well, the plan to, I think the plan changed because.
The plan did change, so then so he stuck to it.
Just because he stayed, he didn't leave.

(01:25:11):
OK, I see what you mean. You bringing that up though
reminded me of another thing during the third act when void
starts to cause all the destruction in the city.
And I will say I just got to give this credit too.
I like that we see the Thunderbolts actually fucking
saving people. Yes, we do not see enough of
that in superhero movies. You know what movie that does do

(01:25:33):
that? The Snyder Cut.
But anyway, John Walker is the only one out of all of these
characters who actually puts hislife in danger by stopping
something that he may not be physically strong enough to.
Stop. He's the only one that actually
shows any sort of strain by actually trying to save
somebody, thus showing he is willing to sacrifice his life

(01:25:57):
just to save one person's life. John Walker is Captain America.
I'm sorry, but it's the truth. I'm not sorry for him say like
not talk your shit. I agree, like the way that all
the fucked up shit that he did in fucking and The Winter

(01:26:18):
Soldier. I'm not saying that this movie
erases all that, but it does. I think it does redeem him.
You see, like all I guess Devin was saying like he has all
these. It's not just one courageous
act. It's a series of courageous acts
throughout the whole movie, and I think that's consistent in his
character. He was probably like that prior
to the thunderbolts, like I justas US agent, that's how he was

(01:26:41):
already and when he was forced to work with these people that
he was initially supposed to kill, he you know, he ends up
only. Supposed to kill one of them.
Yeah, but I think once they all show up, he's like, shit, I
gotta kill all of them, you knowhow?
How else am I going to live? But he just shows like he's 8.
His redemption arc is here. So if they make him Captain

(01:27:02):
America, like I would totally beOK with that.
I see it like I'm not going to be like, yo, like this feels
like it was a cheap moment. Just like when Chris Evans gave
his shield to Sam Wilson's character in End Game.
That felt like a cheap moment. This one, if they give the John
Walker back the Captain America shield, I think it would have

(01:27:25):
been earned. He would have earned it, earned
it back. I agree that everything he does
in Thunderbolts does not erase what he did in Falcon and The
Winter Soldier. It does redeem him, but it makes
him a complex, flawed and human character, which is way more
than you can say for fucking SamWilson.

(01:27:46):
I would rather have a flawed, interesting human being be
Captain America, not. To see more movies with him, to
see how I feel about it. Because there's always a chance
to fuck it up. Yeah, yeah.
It depends on who the director is.
Like who? Like whoever decides to direct
John Walker and wherever else heshows up, they they could fuck

(01:28:07):
it up. I hope they don't because like
the way that this movie ended and the way you're setting up
John Walker as a member of the New Avengers.
Regardless, his storyline is going to be great.
Hopefully. Hopefully depends.
On the director, but yeah, no John Walker, Great character.
I hope he gets his wife and kid back.

(01:28:27):
I think he will. Like he, he's made he he.
Hope he already has cuz that that was what, 14 months later?
That's true. We're we're.
At the wait for the The New Avengers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually excited for a
Marvel movie. John Walker should be Captain
America, and I care more about the New Avengers than whatever B

(01:28:49):
list Team Sam assembles. Yeah, and I think I've said, I
think I've said all I have to say about John Walker.
I like him as a character. I like him even more now.
OK, No, I think I will add, I will add one more thing.
The first iteration of Captain America, he represented hope and

(01:29:11):
he the way that Chris Evans is Captain America was he was, I
wouldn't say he wasn't Superman in this universe, but he
represented hope for the American people for like just
what he represented in The Avengers.
He's basically a perfect human being.
He could do no wrong. I think if they make John Walker
Captain America again, I think it'd be great because it's it's

(01:29:34):
not going to be a perfect Captain America because you
would have seen like this is theCaptain America that got the
title, lost the title and then won it back.
Like he is a flawed human being.And I think that makes for a way
more interesting Captain Americathan the Chris Evans, Steve
Rogers one. It would be better than one for
one dude that hurts. John Walker, everything you just

(01:29:58):
said that was. Beautiful.
Thank you. John Walker is the epitome of
the American dream because he got knocked on his ass and he
showed you can come back, redeemyourself and build back better.
Yo, that was that was that movedme.

(01:30:18):
I couldn't tell if he was angry or ecstatic.
Well, you're just being a hater because you are.
Just being a hater. Like you can't even give me a
good reason why. Because you don't want you.
You put your hands on your heads.
And I was like are. You.
No, I mean you're being a hater in relation to John Walker.
I'm just don't. I need to see more now.
Honestly, I I like Bucky as a potential candidate.

(01:30:39):
See, Bucky felt like the naturalchoice in end game, but you
know. And they didn't choose it.
And you know what he's been, He has been consistent in his
storytelling. Yeah.
He has, yes. Hold on, hold on.
And I will say, Bucky finally got back his coolness in this
movie because he was a sad, stoic, boring congressman.

(01:30:59):
Yeah, didn't finish his term. And they still kept that and
then they changed it. And then which I think it was a
really good thing to do simply because, you know, how would you
feel if like he did a complete 180 in this movie where he was
different from the previous movie?
They showed that he was still that person from the previous
movie, and then he changed. I thought that I really was a

(01:31:22):
nice touch. Yeah, I really like what they're
doing with the Bucky character, especially since he was
introduced way back in, you know, the first Captain America
movie. And like years later, over a
decade later, like, Bucky's still relevant.
So I, I do like what they're doing with this character.
I think they make Bucky or John Walker Captain America.

(01:31:42):
I wouldn't be mad, but I think after Thunderbolts, the choice
is more naturally clear that it should be John Walker.
If Thunderbolt had not come out,then yeah, I would.
I would say Bucky, you know, kill off Tam Wilson, make make
Bucky the Captain America. You know, it's what it was
being. It's what he was originally
being built up for, in my opinion.

(01:32:03):
But now I have the Thunderbolts.It's like I should be John
Walker now if you can't like Buck.
I think Bucky now he he's more of his own thing.
Like Bucky should just stay Bucky at this point.
Like the the ex Winter Soldier guy with the one arm kind of
guy. Like he's just staying that role
now. Maybe changing his name from

(01:32:25):
Winter Soldier to something else?
Yeah, yeah, like he has to do. I don't know, I'm in the wait
and see. I'm interested to see another
movie of them. What?
I wonder what they're. I feel like you got the same
amount though, in terms. Actually, no, you got more of
Sam Wilson because Sam Wilson has been around since I think

(01:32:46):
The Avengers won a long time. Exactly.
And he hasn't had. Much care.
And you're saying you need more of Sam Wilson before you can
decide that, John? Walker No, I don't.
Yeah. Sam Wilson has been John Walker.
And. Captain America The Winter
Soldier, Captain America Civil War like Ant Man.
I don't need to see more. Of Avengers and he's still a
side character. I don't need to see more of

(01:33:09):
Winter Soldier, but I still wantto.
And honestly, I am more excited.I'm really excited to see more
of John Wall. I'm excited to see it, that
entire Avengers team. Yes, I am.
Like I would really want to see more see where they're going if
they're characters, see if they're like, who knows, maybe
they'll get name changes. Maybe they'll keep their names

(01:33:32):
just by the going story about wise with these characters,
right? Like, well, the next one will be
focused only on ghosts because she was like the she didn't even
she didn't get her own background story, did she?
No, she didn't, right. So maybe explore more into her
or Elena's story driven Walker story.

(01:33:54):
Honestly, I'd be OK with an Avengers movie with that team
driven by any one of the ones inthe cast.
Red Guardian. Fuck yeah.
Maybe not red. OK, I take that back and I take
that back. That's like.
All right, Bob. Maybe not, yeah.
Thought you're gonna say no to Bob.

(01:34:14):
I was. Gonna be like, yeah, yeah, he's
an interesting character. And you know, I, it'd be great
to see them delve more into a story.
But like I said, any one of their cast, say for Red
Guardian, I'd be OK with them. There's being their story for
the next movie there and honestly, I, I'm, I'm it's been
a while since I'm like I that you get that feeling of seeing a

(01:34:37):
movie and you're like, I can't wait for the sequel when it when
it comes to Marvel movies or because you want you just want
their stories to be told more orexplored more or just expanded
on. Right.
Because you want more of that character.
And it's been a while since I felt that way, you know, except
for Guardians, you know, the outlier.

(01:34:59):
It's been a while since I've watched a Marvel movie.
And Gup was excited for the sequel.
Yeah. Or, like, I think even with some
Marvel movies, I didn't like, think to myself, I can't wait to
see another story movie character with this character,
Right. I think I did feel that way for

(01:35:20):
Iron Man, Did not feel that way for Thor.
I don't think I, I don't think Ieven felt that way of Thor
Three, like well, after I came out.
I love that. I love that.
Thor movie. Exactly, it is the best one but
after watching I didn't think I'm I'm excited for the next
Thor movie. I.
Was the next sequel mostly because I thought they would
fuck it up. I was like.
We got 2 shitty Thor movies, then we finally get a good one.

(01:35:42):
Yeah, give me more good Thor movies.
And they didn't. They just gave me Love and
Thunder. Well, they gave you end game
before they gave you love and Thunder.
Yeah, but we're talking about like specific, like Thor, like
character movies, Yeah. Infinity War is the the true
unofficial Thor for in my opinion.
And you get Thor 5. But I think how this movie has

(01:36:05):
me very much interested in seeing a sequel.
It's good as a stand alone film.I like that.
I wanted to stay that way. I know it's not because it's a
Marvel film. So it's obviously like, you
know, the end credit scene, it'sobviously interconnected with
the grander MCU, Yeah. There's there's obviously gonna
be a sequel. But I don't I don't think
there's gonna be a Thunderbolts too.
I don't think so either. If if they do it, yeah, it's

(01:36:27):
gonna be with the same characters but in a definitely.
Love it if they. It'll be the new Avengers, yeah.
Subtitle. Something like that, yeah.
Dude I would love it if they were if the title was The
Avengers. Just bring that joke back.
Yeah, Nah, that'd be funny. I don't, I don't think.
There's about Sam's team. Shit but.

(01:36:49):
You know what? That is interesting though,
Yeah. Like how they're going to like
bring 2 opposing sides of The Avengers like, you know, yeah,
Sam Wilson's team. And then you got.
That's Duel. Yolanda's team, you know, sure,
it's doable, but this is Marvel we're talking about, so I'm just
interesting in how they're goingto do it because I'm sure in the
comic books it's been done before, but.
It's been done to death. Yeah.

(01:37:10):
So with the movies, I'm I'm curious.
On how you do it, when you said that, I was thinking of DCU.
Because. Just as like dark, that kind of
stuff. We could go into it more, but
yeah, yeah, yeah. Separate teams.
It'll be interesting to. I don't know if interesting is
the right word. Yes, it'll be something to see

(01:37:31):
how Marvel tackles on multiple teams.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, prediction
wise, I feel like they're going to try to like, let's just meld
them together. I think that's what they're
gonna end up doing. They're gonna try to do.
That or they might just do like subunits, cuz isn't there like
something to do in the comic books?
Like there's The Avengers and then you got like little mini

(01:37:52):
teams. Yeah, like little mini teams or
whatever within The Avengers. Like you got the X-Men and then
you got X Force and shit like that.
Yeah. So I, I imagine that's what
they're gonna do. Cuz I would really like it if
like it's later on some iteration of the The Avengers
movies or whatever, they bring back the Thunderbolts team.
They're like, you know what, fuck The Avengers.
We're let's just call ourselves the Thunderbolts.

(01:38:14):
We're still The Avengers, but our unit is the Thunderbolts.
I'll be like, if they did something like that, I would
fully be there like I supported 100%.
And if they don't, it's fine make.
It the New Avengers and with an asterisk at the end.
And yeah, it comes back to. I just really like that, like
the no, you guys didn't like RedGuardian because he was cringe,
but I like I like I like the howhe was trying to unify them,

(01:38:37):
like, Hey, we're the Thunderbolts.
Yeah, like. I just really like.
I get it right? Dylan didn't like Red Guardian.
I liked him, I just said. You don't like him enough for
him to have his own movement? No, I don't, so I think you're a
hater. Yeah, I love his contribution to
the movie, but I don't think I'dbe interested in seeing a movie

(01:38:58):
where he's the lead character. Why not?
You didn't think that he stole the show with this weedy scene?
Like who? This look very familiar.
I was such a statue bro. I, I love them like I, I love
the dead energy that he brings cuz he brings it in the, the

(01:39:19):
comedic tone with the dad jokes and then he brings it with like
the like the emotional scene with Yelena and like, you know.
That was his only good scene. That was a good scene.
Now you're being a hater too. But but, but that just goes into
my point that he brought that dad energy.
So, you know, he brought he brought the emotional weight

(01:39:40):
with that Jelena scene, but he also brought like a lot of dad
jokes. And I don't know, maybe it's
because I'm old but I dad jokes have me like laughing.
I was laughing too but it's not enough to see a story driven
movie by him. It's like he contributed to the
movie. I I love the part that he
played. I'm interested to have him in
more movies. I just not interested in seeing

(01:40:02):
him lead a movie. You just need to like see it and
like you just need like some scriptwriter to spend 4 years
writing the script for the red. Cardian and a scriptwriter
spends 4 years writing a story for a red Cardian.
I will watch it for sure. And I bet you like they can make
like a like a flashback like back in the day when he was cool
and like, that would win you. You know what?

(01:40:22):
Hold on. Yeah, I bet.
I bet there is a confident. Red.
Red for that. Yeah, for that.
A prequel? Yeah.
Hey, Kevin Feige, you know whereto reach me at the Longline
podcast. Nobody's in Hollywood.
Make me a somebody. I got an idea for you.
That's the dream, right? Yeah.
So, John, what you gonna do withJohn Walker, Right.
You hear me? You can't fuck this up.

(01:40:44):
Yeah, you can't. You've got you struck gold.
It's like. But he they have the pieces
there. Just keep polishing.
They have the pieces there with the with the Thunderbolts and
like they have something here that they could build it off and
do something great with it again.
Will they? I don't know, only time will
tell. Yep, exactly what about your

(01:41:05):
thought? But what are your thoughts on
this? Did you watch the movie that you
guys agree with what was said here today?
Or do you guys think did we watch the same movie?
No, we definitely. Leave a comment and let us know
what you think. We're very interested in your
opinions. Maybe you've caught something
that we missed and hopefully andon our second rewatch, maybe

(01:41:28):
we'll catch it too. Yeah, I think on the second
rewatch I'll probably cry when like the whole bop thing happens
again, because I'll be ready forit.
I'll be like, you know what? The emotional weight of this
scene, It's OK. I'm alone.
It'd be great. But yeah, so that was 1 great
movie we saw last week and then we saw another one yesterday.
Yes, we did. Like, I mean, you saw Until

(01:41:49):
Dawn, so I guess for you, you saw three great movies.
Dylan and I only saw two. But sinners, I know we're late
to the party when we came out like almost a month ago, but we
finally got around to watching it.
How do you guys feel about the film real quick?
Give you quick thoughts. Quick thoughts.
Well, I I very much enjoyed it. Just because the way it was

(01:42:12):
using, it's not say like, you know, horror movies, they tend
to focus on the gore. It's like the main selling
point, whereas the horror propelled the story.
The, the, the way he they told the story and how music played a
huge part in it. It was just very entertaining,
very pleasing to the ears. And it, it had me enamoured in
it. Just I I was enjoying myself the

(01:42:35):
entire time. I agree but I feel the same way
I Michael Michael B Jordan like his performance, how he played
two characters in the in the film and was still able to make
those two characters seem different and similar at the
same time because they're brothers.
So obviously they're going to have similarities.
They're fucking twins. But they were still able, he was

(01:42:57):
still able to portray them like differently enough.
They could tell which one was which.
And like you said, I thought it was very entertaining.
The music. I loved it.
I loved how I'm not trying to get cancelled over this, but I
loved how like black this film was.
This is directed by Ryan Coogler, Coogler Coogler and he

(01:43:17):
did Black Panther. I think you told me last time
and Creed Walt. But I'm going to go more more
still with Black Panther becausethat was another film that was
it was very like just Pearl Black.
It was a black film and I felt that that that added like a
nuance and a different perspective that most audiences,
IE white, aren't used to. And with this Phone Sinners, I

(01:43:40):
felt, I felt it was kind of the same way where it took the trope
of vampires, but you know, addedan element of like black to it
with the music, with the especially the time setting you
take place in like the 1930s. 1932. 1932 so Prohibition, Stone
in effect, Jim Crow, all that like all these elements that

(01:44:02):
we're not if this was filmed forlike a white audience or this
made like we know with white actors, that probably wouldn't
play as big of a role as it did with this film.
We're like the one of the. There's perspectives, yeah.
And like one of like the. Scenes that one, Dylan.
Over Hold back. There's a scene that that one
Dylan over was it was in the beginning of the movie where it

(01:44:24):
was just one shot of going from one grocery store to the other
across across the road to the other grocery store.
And it was interesting because then Castro pointed out that,
hey, like they got one grocery store for the blacks and one for
the whites, you know, segregation.
And it's like, oh shit. They're running both.
Yeah, like you see a little details, like, damn, like this

(01:44:46):
is an interesting take on vampires and just from a
different perspective that we'renot used to seeing, especially
the music like that. I fucking love the music.
I already saved the soundtrack to my phone.
Like which? Which song did you think here
was your favorite? Oh bro, hold on, let me pull it

(01:45:07):
up. We don't.
Need to play the song but just like no.
Obviously, it's gonna be the one.
If you've seen the movie Sinners, you know you know which
song I'm gonna bring up. OK.
That's like the the song, like the the one that invites the
vampire is over. OK.
Like the song where it blends like, you know, like the old
school African folk music with like the new school hip hop and

(01:45:30):
then the Blues. I don't know what the fuck was
going on there when I was watching it.
Dylan was like, yo, what the fuck is going on too?
But I was like, hold on, let them cook.
Let them see what they're doing with this because this was
interesting. It was very interesting.
So that song is like the Best Song.
Did you think, did you like any of the songs or was that your
favorite song or was there another song that you enjoyed?

(01:45:51):
Because I noticed that like evensome of the songs, the story,
the lyrics in the song played a part in the story.
Yeah. Did you have a favorite song or
did you not enjoy the songs at all?
I mean, I obviously enjoyed the music.
I thought Sinners was a really good movie.
At this point I would say it's probably the best film of the
year. But I'm not really comfortable

(01:46:14):
going into detail about it because I don't.
I don't care about the horror aspect.
I don't care about, I do, the magical realism that was alluded
to in the movie. I'm much more interested in the
conversation that the movie is trying to have.
I'm more interested in the themes.
I think this was the first moviethat showed me that Ryan Coogler

(01:46:37):
has a lot more potential as a filmmaker than I initially
thought. I I would say that I thought
Creed was pretty damn good. I like Creed better than any of
the Rocky movies. I'm not great movie.
I'm the first one. I'm not huge on Black Panther.
I'm I think it's a little overrated.

(01:46:59):
You can watch his commentary on it at Nightfall Films.
But I think Sinners is easily Ryan Coogler's best work as a
director. And then to me, it's the biggest
sign that he has something more to offer as a filmmaker.
Oddly enough, this was his firstfully original film.

(01:47:22):
I do think the movie had some issues, particularly with its
pacing, especially the ending. It's not perfect, I really liked
it, but it's something that I need to sit with and chew on
more because I am just way more interested in the conversation
that the movie is trying to havewith the audience.

(01:47:44):
Because I think it's a lot more complex than, oh, vampires,
blood sucking, racism. I think that's a gross
oversimplification of what the movie's doing.
And if that's what you're takingaway from the movie, maybe
movies aren't for you. Damn.
But I would, I would say, I would say that music is a huge

(01:48:05):
part of the movie. And the the movie does an
excellent job at showing that music is the universal language,
something that absolutely transcends culture, time and if
you're on LSD, space. Yeah.

(01:48:25):
Music plays a huge role in this movie.
I did enjoy the music. I thought it was really
interesting how in the beginningof the film, the music is
predominantly acoustic. It sounds more bluesy, more
folksy. Yeah.
And as you get later into the movie, you bring in this element
of electric guitars and synths, and it becomes a lot more

(01:48:46):
heavier. Sound design is really important
to this movie, too, because evenduring dialogue scenes, there
sounds playing throughout the movie that don't have anything
to do directly with what's beingshown to you on screen.
So I would say, yeah, I did likethe music.
I think Ludwig Goranson is one of the best composers working in

(01:49:11):
Hollywood. Personally, I think he's a lot
better than Hans Zimmer who everyone seems to think is the
best. That's neither here nor there.
But what I would say is Jesse just mentioned the scene where
the kid plays this song that invites the vampires in and
brings the 2 worlds together of past, present and future.

(01:49:36):
That is another scene that was shot in this really innovative
wonder and it blends so many different elements through the
filmmaking, through the sound design, through the
cinematography. It is just this really
incredible kaleidoscope vision of audio visual art.

(01:50:00):
And what I would say is watch Sinners.
I recommend it, watch it in the theatre.
Do yourself a favour. This is, Oh yeah, this is a
movie that if you watch it at home, you were going to regret
not watching it for the first time in the theatre.
I said way more than I thought Iwas going to.
And. You have a lot to say.

(01:50:20):
But that's why I said I'm I'd behere much longer if I got into
what I think the movie is tryingto say.
Not to say it's my place, but I do think it's a lot deeper than
just saying the vampires are an allegory for racism and that

(01:50:42):
these people are trying to invade a purely black space.
That was the Juke joint. I think it goes a lot deeper
than that. Yeah.
So that's what I would say aboutSinners.
It's a great movie for me. Like I said, I I do think it's
probably the best film of 2025 so far.
I would recommend it and I've I've talked for too long so

(01:51:06):
somebody. It's great for entry level
horror, just if you're not comfortable with the genre, I'd
say that this is a good entry level to it because for like the
first half of the movie, the horror isn't prevalent.
You go in expecting horror and honestly, you're not really
introduced into it until it catches you off guard when it

(01:51:26):
finally is introduced. Because I feel like there's a
thought the movie, you're just like you're watching and you're
like, where's the jump scares? Where's the where's the gore?
Where's the horror? Where's the violence?
Where's all of that? And it loads you in until you're
like, you know what? I'm just gonna enjoy the ride
and you're watching the movie and then suddenly it hits you

(01:51:46):
with that one scene. I'm not gonna go into it just
because if you haven't. Seen it, go into it, go into it,
really watch go into it you. Should really watch this movie.
This movie will be streaming soon given that we watched it
like almost a month later. Got it, But if you haven't
already seen it and you can still catch it in theaters.
Yeah, go watch this movie in theaters.
This one, this one deserves. Well, we did a whole episode on

(01:52:09):
watching original movies and like supporting original movies.
This was a great original movie.Go support this film.
Like I kept you know what? We I think we are going to, we
are going to end up doing like an episode dedicated to sinners
or at least included in the discussion and a dialogue after
we've had more time to think about it because we just watched
this movie yesterday and I I still need, I'm still processing

(01:52:32):
thunderbolts. So I, I would love to have like
a full like deep dive discussionabout this movie because I
think, yeah, like Dylan said, there is a lot this this movie
is trying to say. And I think the way it says it
is creative in, in the aspect ofthis, this movie does a lot of

(01:52:52):
showing, not telling. And so I think I, I it's going
to require a re watch in order to pick up all the nuanced
details that is trying to communicate with us as like the
audience. But like that, like Devin said,
this movie fucking great. It was definitely a lot
different, not what I was expecting it.
Yeah, exactly. I didn't watch the trailer for

(01:53:14):
this one cuz again, I don't watch trailers, but I had
already heard about this film. People were praising it.
I already knew it was basically about vampires, so I was like,
all right, well, let's see how it is.
I was fully expecting it to be like a horror movie.
Like the first two minutes they gave me, they gave me like 2
little jump scares. So I thought the whole movie was

(01:53:34):
gonna be like that. Which I will say these two were
good. They did not jump.
Well, yeah, cuz it turns out like Dylan brought up this
example in the previous episode,like Nova came and that movie
did a really great job at disarming the audiences for what
the the the action or like the gore that was about to be
presented. This movie sinners.

(01:53:55):
It did a great job at disarming like me into thinking that OK,
I'm probably there's probably going to be a lot of jump
scares. There wasn't it was literally
the jump scares were in the beginning of the movie because
after that, like the horror element of this movie is all in
the anticipation of what's goingto happen.
It doesn't it doesn't show you like the jump scare or like

(01:54:17):
vampire biting you or whatever. It's it's it creeps you out with
that, with the music and like the building tension and it
doesn't show you and. Even when it does show the
vampires, they it, it you're expecting something to happen.
Yeah. And nothing happens exactly.
And you're just like, what's going to go on?
And then it finally it starts totake gain momentum and then it

(01:54:39):
starts building pace. And even then, from everything
that's happened, you don't expect it to be a little bloody.
You don't. I mean, you expect a little bit
of blood. Yeah.
Not to the extent like I really I love that they kept intact
when when the vampires get shot you can still see the bullet
holes. Yeah, it it, it's this movie.

(01:54:59):
Yeah, it follows the the vampirerules.
Like vampires get shot or are injured and they stay injured
unless that vampire eats or drinks blood and then you see
them heal. Because it did show that.
It showed that with the original, like the OG vampire
that starts infecting everybody.And then it showed that with
like the big dude, the guy at the door.

(01:55:22):
Spoiler the guy at the door who's like in charge of like
letting people in or in or out when he takes the leak and comes
back, he gets shot in the mouth and so he has like that gaping
whore whatever. But once he drinks blood of
someone else, boom, he heals. And I thought like, yo, this
movie is smart. It's it sets the rules and then
it follows its own rules, like if corn.

(01:55:42):
Break. His name was Corn.
Corn. That's his name.
Yeah, I don't even think that was his name.
That's what they just called him.
But yeah, no this movie. That's a nickname.
Yeah, I know. It definitely was this movie.
Brilliant. But there's a lot more that I
wanna say. But I think it'd be better for
an episode where we fully dive into it.
I just wanted to bring it up with Thunderbolts because those
are two movies we watched since the last episode and.

(01:56:04):
Both just wanting more. Yeah, both were great movies.
Both were original movies in their own right.
And I honestly we're starting toget some really good Movies Now
like 2025 started off kind of slow, but I think all movies are
like that in the beginning. But now we're we're starting to
get some good movies like both Thunderbolts and this one.

(01:56:24):
I I enjoyed them. We're about to hit the summer
releases. Oh fuck yeah.
I'm, I'm expecting. I should know.
I shouldn't expect anything. But if I see some good movies
that I had no expectations for, like Thunderbolts, I'll be
happy. All right then don't watch any
trailers for Superman. Which I never do.
I should, I should know. You guys made me watch that one.

(01:56:46):
I. Didn't tell you anything though.
No, no, because then Denon was like, yo, have you seen the five
minute extended cut of the opening scene?
There's a 5 minute extended. Bro, where are you at?
OK, I, I like I that's the initial.
Oh, you're, you're on vacation. Nevermind.
You weren't there for that one. So yeah.
But no, Denon mentioned that there's a 5 minute Superman or
extended and it might not be 5 minutes.

(01:57:07):
Is it 5 minutes? It's 5 minutes.
It's 5 minutes. I'm not going to watch it the.
Fact that you think what Jesse said about cornbread is a
spoiler shows how out of controlspoiler culture is.
They don't fucking matter at all.
They do it's stupid. No, they don't.
Actually, they do. I actually wrote that down when
you said that the first time. I spoilers don't matter.

(01:57:29):
I actually wanted to ask you about that.
Like what is your because I'm kind of on the fence because I
think like I prefer not knowing spoilers going into a movie.
I'm going to go into a movie blind, but I'm curious to hear
like so when you say spoilers don't matter, like stand on
that? Spoilers don't matter because if
a movie has to rely on shock value and surprise to win you

(01:57:49):
over, it's probably not a very good movie.
The storytelling sucks and if you say spoilers are important
you are devaluing the importanceof re watches.
Also, spoilers have been shown. There has been a study done on
this. Psychologists have proved that
knowing the story beforehand actually enhances your ability

(01:58:12):
to appreciate the story mechanics of how things are done
in a movie. Spoilers don't fucking matter.
Also, if spoilers were that important, movies would not be
able to build legacies. Because, hypothetically
speaking, people know what happens in The Godfather.
They know what happens in Citizen Gane.

(01:58:33):
They don't matter. The storytelling matters.
The themes matter. The characters matter.
OK, I hear what you're saying. I need to digest that a bit
because I personally when I watch a movie I like as you, I
think you there is merit in whatyou're saying in terms of like
if the story. Is there me just trying to give
you a quick hit thoughts. Because like, if we're gonna

(01:58:55):
have a real discussion, I could give you a much more
comprehensive answer why I don'tthink they matter.
OK, you know, we can we can circle back to this.
Yeah. Final episode.
Yeah. But I you.
Asked me. So I'm trying to give you an
answer that I think is comprehensive enough for you to
understand where I'm coming from, but not so in depth that

(01:59:16):
I'm going to keep us here for another 20.
Minutes Let me just ask you a follow up question then, just to
get an example, just to see where you stand on this.
So like in in Star Wars, if no one ever saw the movie or or
someone didn't see the movie andsomeone told them like, hey, yo,
Darth Vader is that fucker's father, who is Anakin?
Luke. What Luke?

(01:59:37):
Luke is Anakin's father or Anakin is Luke's father.
Vader is Luke's father. OK, so like if someone like told
someone who had never seen a Star Wars movie, hey, Vader is
Luke's father, would that ruin Iguess like gut spoiler?
So you're saying that like that is I don't want to phrase my
question. I guess if that if someone

(01:59:58):
spoiled like that aspect for themovie.
Do you think like that kind of ruins like Star Wars like that
specific moment? Because it was a big deal when
it first aired and it came out and people were like, oh shit.
No. Damn.
OK, no. Well, you guys, now you know
where Dylan stands, all right? So now I know where you stand.
Disagree or strongly disagree oragree?

(02:00:21):
Let us know because we're going to talk about this.
We're going to circle back to this on a different episode.
But like now I know where you stand.
So I'm like, all right, cool. I now I know where I can, where
my head can go because I don't, I think I'm going to, I'm going
to say right now, I think I'm, I'm probably going to end up
disagreeing with you, But it I just want to see like what from
your perspective, why it is so because I think there is merit

(02:00:42):
on what you're saying, because Ithink there is, there is a lot
of there's a lot of merit to rewatching a movie.
So I agree with that aspect. Like when you know what's gonna
happen, then you can just focus on the mechanics of the story
and what you like about that. See what the story is going to
tell you? Yeah.
But at the same time like. The third watch.
I would not have I, I, I, I enjoyed going into thunderbolts

(02:01:05):
sinners, like kind of blind without knowing what it was
going to be about. Because if I like, yeah, sure,
if I'd known like how big of of a role music was going to play
in sinners and whatever probablywouldn't have changed much.
I would have still enjoyed the movie.
But I still liked going in blindand then coming out being like,
guys, that was a great ass movie.
Like, I don't know, I just I like that experience.

(02:01:28):
But I'm not going to keep you on.
I keep you here that much longerbecause we're going to circle
back on this. Disagree but.
You just said that you didn't want to do a 20 minute segment.
So I'm like, OK, we'll drop the subject and bring it up again.
But yes, I do disagree. I won't go into one.
No, I know you. Disagree because you're told me
that's different. No.
No, he disagrees just because he's wrong.

(02:01:51):
No, I disagree because, well, I'll go into it more until next
when we make this an actual segment of it when we have time.
Thunderbolts guys, if you guys haven't seen the movie yet, go
watch it now in theaters. It's fucking great.
Same with Sinners. Both like these movies are
fucking phenomenal. You should watch them in
theaters. They're great.

(02:02:12):
Thanks for listening to episode 9 of below the line podcast.
And now that I have you here stay tuned because next week's
episode guys big ass milestone episode 10.
Like if you guys thought that ifyou guys thought that we can't
we can't we can come here with our hot takes.
You have not seen episode 10 yet.

(02:02:35):
If you thought my Joker episode was a master class of
podcasting, just wait until we get to next week's episode.
Yeah. If I have you excited, good.
Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna take a step away from, I feel
like we've been talking about Marvel for too long, you know,
step away from that whole superhero respect.
No more. No, no more Marvel.

(02:02:55):
Comic Marvel movies, yeah. That, that that was very
prevalent in this episode. We talked about Marvel Cinematic
Universe, the way it's stored. It's like, so we're not gonna do
that. Yep, no.
Instead, we're gonna talk about DC and we're gonna talk about
Watchmen, the movie that starteda failed universe.
What our thoughts are on it. Is it a good movie?

(02:03:16):
No. Is it a, is it a good movie?
What did Zack Snyder, what was going through Zack Snyder's head
when he he was making this movie?
How did he put the pieces together and was it faithfully
play faithful adaptation of the Watchmen comics and that

(02:03:37):
author's theme and story and what he was trying to tell the
audience, it wasn't. Glad Jesse just said it for me
to. Get you excited for that
episode. It'll be and we won't also just
focus on Watchmen. We'll also focus on other things

(02:03:57):
that the Snyder has done and, and maybe discuss his what he
brings to the cinematic world. Yeah.
I hope you guys are excited because I am.
It'll be an interesting episode.We got something fun planned.
That's really all I can say. All right.
That's more than enough. That's really all I can say.

(02:04:18):
But yeah, we're going to Snyder it up.
So. Before you listen to the 10th
episode, you are required to go to the gym.
Get a nice muscle pump. It it makes for a great story.
I, I promise, I promise you thisepisode will not be boring.
No, no, I will not. All right, guys, this is Jesse

(02:04:39):
signing off. Thank you for tuning in with us
with another episode. Thank you for listening to us,
Angela. I hope you weren't too bothered
by what we said. What I hope you agreed with at
least one of us on what we said.And if you disagreed, I hope
that's willing to have further discussion and to maybe give us

(02:05:01):
your perspective so we can talk about.
Although I feel like for the 10th episode you won't be able
to change our mind, but for thisone maybe you might be able to
change our minds on thunderboltsor sinners.
Thank you for listening everybody.
We've got 23 dedicated listenerson Spotify, which means 23 are

(02:05:24):
regularly listening. Hey, shout out to you.
Guys, those 3 thank you guys. And of course running through
the show. Acknowledgments.
Thank you to Levi for the intro music.
Thank you to Jesse for the artwork and of course his work
as Co host. Thank you for listening and
subscribe to the YouTube channelat Nightfall Films followers

(02:05:46):
TikTok, same handle. All right, guys, it was great.
Great episode guys. To the finish line, Yes, it's a
marathon. We'll see you guys next week.
We'll see you for episode 10. Huge milestone. 93% of podcasts
don't even make it past 10 episodes.
Fuck yeah. We're going to defy the odds.
Thank you for joining us. Thank you to those 23 again

(02:06:09):
plants. Namaste.

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