July 3, 2025 • 53 mins
Earlier this year, I was invited onto the EXCELLENT Basecamp For Men podcast, hosted by fellow truth-seeker and Seattleite Tony Rezac.
We had a great conversation covering Bitcoin, Carnivore, Geoengineering, and the importance of maintaining a resilient mind while diving through the seemingly infinite barrage of dark rabbit holes that lay in front of us as we embark on this truth-seeking mission.
Enjoy the conversation, and go show Tony some love on NOSTR so we can get him some more momentum on there! (npub below)
.
.
TONY’S LINKS 🔗
→ Nostr: npub1fk4245q8dsn0hlfz5rmfu48wk6amathmck2rvwst4pcrtzkxt2jsdp8ysq
→ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/basecampformen
→ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tonyrezac
→ Website: https://basecamp-podcast.com/
.
.
BEN’S LINKS 🔗
→ Twitter/X: https://x.com/benwehrman
→ Instagram: https://instagram.com/where_man
→ Nostr: https://primal.net/ben
→ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@benwehrman/
→ Website: https://www.benwehrman.com/
.
.
SUPPORT THE BEN WEHRMAN PODCAST ❤️
→ Share the show with friends, family, and social media
→ Zap me on Nostr. (Learn more about Nostr here)
→ Learn more about Value-4-Value, and how it’s helping independent creators
→ Direct Lightning Tips: benwehrman@getalby.com
.
.
BITCOIN RECOMMENDATIONS (AFFILIATE LINKS) 👍
→ Buy Bitcoin AND Stack Extra Sats on Every Purchase with the Fold Debit Card
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, welcome to Basecamp for Men. I'm your host, Tony Rezac. This is a show that gives
(00:10):
you insights and resources in how to live a more courageous life. We look to assist you
on your hero's journey in any way that we can. Truth is our compass, humanity, our tribe.
Welcome and let's get started.
Hello, Basecampers. I hope you're all doing well. One of the things that we've been tasked
with you and I is to consider and when appropriate to adopt new ways of seeing things. We've been
(00:32):
given so many false notions in so many areas of life, government, education, media and health,
for instance. The best we can do, in my humble opinion, is to keep an open mind and to continue
to look for ideas and people that uplift and inspire you, for they are your fellow travelers
in this great awakening that we're experiencing. Humanity seems to be emerging from the fog of
(00:53):
deception. Our antennas are getting more sharply attuned to the truth. And the more truth that
comes to light, the more confident we become in our path and in ourselves and one another.
What are some of these new ideas that are emerging that can help elevate us? Well,
we're going to cover much of this and more today with a man that I've had the great fortune to
connect with recently. This could easily be two men sitting around the campfire talking far and
(01:16):
wide about our shared future. And before we get to the episode, I wanted to share two memes with
you that I think will help tee this one up. One is from my guest's website, a quote from the writer
Timothy Ferris, who says, quote, the specialist spends decades making incremental improvements,
while the curious generalist consistently measures improvement in quantum leaps, unquote. Oh,
(01:36):
and finally, one from my own website, quote, truth is also seeking the seeker, unquote. Enjoy the
episode. My guest today is Ben Wurman. Ben is a fellow seeker of truth, photographer,
digital nomad, writer, and podcaster. Here is my interview with Ben Wurman.
(02:02):
All right, I am here with Ben Wurman, photographer and truther, podcaster, Ben Wurman. Ben,
welcome to Basecamp for Men. It's great to have you on the show.
Tony, it is a wonderful pleasure to connect.
I'm so glad that our friend Peruvian Bull got us together.
A bunch of Seattle brothers are all finding each other on the interwebs, and it's happy to be here.
(02:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I was really excited.
I've been eyeing your stuff on Noster, just writing excellent content about all kinds of stuff that I'm into and just doing a great job.
So I was really excited for him to connect us.
And I guess just to start with, maybe just give us a little bit of a background, like where you're from, where you grew up, what you might do for work, where are you at now?
(02:47):
You're kind of a nomad from what I understand.
So just give us a little sketch of your background and what you're doing and where you're doing it from now.
Yeah.
I can't even remember where you were originally raised, but I know you're in Seattle now.
But I was born and raised in the Northwest, born in Portland, Oregon, then raised in on
Woodby Island, which is just about an hour and a half north of Seattle and amazing, beautiful
(03:12):
place to grow up.
And I was one of the people who I really did appreciate growing up.
I know a lot of people there just like, oh, this boring farm town.
There's nothing to do here.
There's nobody here.
It was really small, Coopville, where I was from.
But I always loved it because there's so much nature everywhere.
Just where my parents live right now, when I go back to visit, it's right downstream
from the beach. I can literally walk down to the beach with my shoes off and I can take my mountain
(03:35):
bike out into the hills and the mountains and just go riding all day. And it's just a really
cool place to grow up. Went to school at the University of Washington, right near the neck
of the woods there. And after that, I got a regular full-time job for a short period of time
and quickly realized I hate this. I don't like doing this. So I just started traveling. And in
(03:57):
2018, I have a little bit of a funny story for how I even got into traveling to begin with.
I was living in Central District in Seattle in a townhouse with some frat buddies from college.
And we were having this house party one night.
And one of my roommate's friends had just gotten back from a six-month working holiday in Australia.
(04:21):
And so I chatted with him about this.
And we were both just, you know, drinking at the party and just I'm just absorbing this guy's story and just thinking, man, this sounds so cool.
This sounds so cool.
And so literally in the middle of the party, as I'm drunk, I go down to my room.
I grab my laptop.
I come up.
I just clear the beer cans off the table.
And I literally sign up for this visa on the table in the middle of this party.
(04:45):
I'm like, I want to go to Australia.
This sounds amazing.
That's awesome.
And so the next morning I'd wake up hungover and just thinking, I don't regret that at all.
I think this is exactly what I need to do right now.
Let's go to Australia.
So a few months later, I'm on a plane over there.
And man, ever since then, I was 2018.
So it's been seven years of basically slow traveling, I would call.
(05:07):
I was never the type to just go one night per place or even a few nights per place and just keep moving around.
I like to settle down places.
So that very first trip, I did four months in Melbourne, the city, the first day I went to Australia, and then eight months in Queensland, up in Cairns.
So in the very beginning, I just like to settle down.
I just like to have my home move around every once in a while.
(05:30):
That's great.
I give you a little bit of flexibility.
And so I landed with usually two home visits per year back in Cooville, which is a great place to recharge.
And like I said, just stand on a beach, walk on a beach, go bike riding, just all the nature around the Northwest is just so great for just healing any of those months I spent in the city.
And yeah, so I'm still doing that to this day, to be honest.
(05:52):
I just turned 30 in October, so I definitely do more and more think about, okay, when's the next step of actually settling down, getting married, starting a family, having that dream Bitcoin or homestead with all the meat I could ever ask for in my freezer.
and really locking in good water quality and a good filter for that
(06:18):
and really being able to lock in these health things
because, as I'm sure we'll talk about, I'm super into the health rabbit holes.
How do you optimize your health in the best way possible?
And some of them are so impossible while traveling.
And the biggest one for me right now in Argentina where I am
has been water and just drinking water.
And it is so freaking impossible to find anything that's not plastic bottles.
(06:40):
and I know how terrible that is.
So it's just been a constant struggle.
And right now I literally can't find it anywhere in this town I'm at.
So I'm drinking out.
I get the biggest plastic jugs I can find
and just cringe my way through these things,
knowing how many microplastics are in those,
going and working out, sweating, detoxing as much as I can,
grounding, trying to undo the damage.
But these are the trade-offs when you're sort of living a life
(07:02):
of floating around in the abyss as you are exposed to the fiat world
and all of its ridiculousness
and people just aren't thinking about health and having these things dialed in anywhere.
Even in these parts of the world where people are more healthy than Americans on average,
but still people just aren't thinking.
Their bandwidth is still shrunk down by the inflationary environment we're in
(07:26):
with their money being stolen from them all the time.
People are stressed everywhere.
And that's something I've learned from all my travels, no matter where I went,
which was Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Guatemala,
everywhere people are struggling.
And so this is why I'm a huge Bitcoiners. I'm super glad that you get into that on your show a lot. Bitcoin is the solution in my eyes, and that's what I'm up to right now.
(07:48):
That's fantastic, Ben. You know, the health thing, which we're going to get into, it's interesting that it goes hand in hand in the Bitcoin community.
It's not left out. If it was only Bitcoin as digital store of value and all these things, I don't think it would be quite as interesting for me.
and we'll get into that.
I want to start with the first question I had for you.
(08:09):
But yeah, it's just, I love that Bitcoiners
have a view of the whole thing, diet, health,
like they're clued in as to where we want to go
with the future.
And it's just really, really great.
But you write quite a bit, like I do,
about this spiritual war that's been happening
and we're calling it, we still call it humanity on one side
(08:30):
and the globalists or the cabal,
or I've used the sociopaths.
There's a lot of different ways to describe them.
And a lot of us got banned for some of the things that we were saying on social media.
Are you optimistic right now?
I think there was a sea change and people may or may not like Donald Trump, but it seemed like when he won the presidency this November, things started to move in a direction really rapidly.
(08:59):
Things were starting to happen.
And then here in the United States, as you can probably guess, half the country or slightly more than half, let's say, since he won the popular vote, are very excited.
I think they are willing to overlook certain things that they're not sure how they're going to come out going, look, I think he has the country's best interest at heart.
(09:22):
I think he's doing a lot of good things.
And then you have this other large group on the left and even in the center who who may be feeling like there's they're freaking out because the the the speed of what's happening is not what they're used to.
I think you and I, I can handle things happening fast.
(09:45):
Even that being said, I'm like, whoa, what else?
What's going on?
That was a fast week.
But for people that have been really married to the status quo, this all looks like somebody is tearing the hell out of the status quo structures, which, to be fair, are immensely corrupt.
So it should be, you know, sayonara, goodbye. We don't want that anymore. But there's a group that still, like, Trump's a dictator, Trump's evil, and everything he's doing is bad.
(10:15):
And so we're kind of in this weird spot in this war where I feel super optimistic because of all the things we're going to talk about.
But I guess I want to just ask you, like, are you are you feeling like things are going in a good direction?
What has you optimistic? And yeah, where are we at and how are things occurring down there in Argentina as well with all this stuff?
(10:37):
Are they also kind of split between two groups?
I mean short answer is I'm definitely optimistic and I think that like you I know that you always
talk about this on your show how you know we have to be optimistic you can't really be down in the
dumps and expect to win this thing you know we have to really dig deep sometimes to stay optimistic
(10:57):
because there's a lot of dark things out there and when you learn more and more about the dark
forces that play that are we are you know up against it's daunting sometimes yeah and uh it
there are some tough moments. I know that another one that you are digging into is a whole
geoengineering chemtrails thing, that 5 millionth conspiracy theory thing that the conspiracy
(11:19):
theorists were right about. It's happening. I can see it outside right now. It's literally
happening here in Argentina It everywhere It much better here than it was back home In late January I was actually stayed at this was fun I stayed in Seattle at UW for a week I got an Airbnb just a block away from the old frat house
I was in at the University of Washington
(11:40):
just so I could like record some podcast episodes
around campus, the place I used to study.
And of course, like, it's just insane to think back
at, you know, when I was, you know, 1920
and they're just having no clue about the world.
And now I'm like looking with just completely fresh eyes
everywhere like looking up and just seeing like on my walk down to the the suzlo library there's
(12:00):
just freaking trails all over the place in the sky and all the kids are just looking down at their
feet as they're walking to class i have no idea what's what's going on and another example there's
one really nice sunny day i just immediately went to the the quad and just took my shirt off and just
laid down like a starfish to get my sunlight because i know that's really good and people
are looking at y'all weird because it was like winter time it's cold out why are you shirtless
(12:22):
in the sun that's crazy like this i this is really good for you actually i know that whatever
medical school teaching you're getting is it is terrible and you have a sunscreen deficiency or
whatever but um that was just wild and regarding that the political points you brought up i it's so
funny that my politics are just been all over the place over the last several years
(12:44):
growing up in the northwest i was very very much hard left blue everything me too for the majority
of my life, just like you. And I would say that finally started changing when I went down the
Bitcoin rabbit hole. Like you said, that's the really good core rabbit hole that branches off
into everything else. Once you understand the money and the power and how the government operates,
(13:06):
now fiat and the money printer of the central banking operates. So I went from completely blue
to like, huh, this is all kind of crazy, sort of libertarian. And then for this last election cycle,
I continued putting out the libertarian style context.
That will always be my thing.
Just forget about all these people.
I don't want to be led by anybody.
I want to lead myself.
(13:27):
Internally, I was definitely thinking, oh, man, things would be worse if Kamala won.
So I hope Trump wins just because I know that there are more awake people on that side that need a win.
And I will say it's now March, and he's done way worse than I thought he would.
That may be a hot take for – I don't know what your audience feels about that.
(13:48):
But just the way that the money is being spent and the Epstein files continuing to be kicked down the road into JFK files and they're like making new laws about, you know, anti-Semitism.
You get deported out of the country if you question anything about Israel and then you scratch your head and do a little more digging on that.
Like, oh, like all of the dough shavings times a bazillion, they're just sending this over to Israel.
(14:11):
So the whole Israel thing has been a new rabbit hole, which we can go there or not if you want to.
I know that's a whole different can of worms, but I think I think we'll save that for a part two, because I think that could be a really good one.
But, yeah, I've all I've often scratched my head.
It's like, why? Why is Israel always get the preferential treatment with the money laundering?
You know, and yeah, yeah.
(14:34):
And I and I feel you, you know, there's there's times when I think it's dangerous to just say, oh, the White Hats have it.
there's nothing we need to do because like for instance to your point about the chemtrails and
the geoengineering the aerosol spraying what are we going to do about that i know there's people
like cal washington who are doing notice of liability and they're doing all these legal
(14:59):
things to get them to stop and rfk jr has been on record saying we're going to put an end we're
going to put an end to this this spraying of the skies he has said that we're going to stop this
crime is what he said on like a tweet i know and so and i don't want to be so high time preference
that i expect everything to happen at once like bitcoin has taught me look zoom out keep the faith
(15:23):
keep your vibration high because my family freaks out over the spring it'll be a beautiful day
in seattle and all of a sudden you're like damn it look at that again and then white hay is just
white sound just turned into grow light yeah and gross man you can point some people you can point
to it and they will literally not see it and i'm like this has got to be the weirdest matrix moment
(15:47):
where i'm pointing and going do you see that do you see all that spraying up there and they'll
look up and go what are you talking about i don't see anything i'm like i heard it's water vapor
it's just it's ice crystals yeah and you're like no it's not that at all look i go stand here for
15 minutes and watch what this does to the sky or like three hours yeah it doesn't go away no it
(16:08):
doesn't covers the entire sky i saw this last night yeah i was doing one of my podcast walks
i do everywhere i go no matter where i'm traveling i i try to end every single day that i can with
um not looking at the screen i i get on my phone and i put on my most reddit out filter
just so i can you know see what i'm typing i just listen to podcasts airplane mode always
(16:28):
and go walk around and just get some blood flowing before I go to bed.
That's great.
Because I definitely have like a lot of grinding sessions on my laptop.
I'm sure many listeners do that are in this information war.
So, yeah, last night, literally the sunset was stolen.
It was just completely sprayed over, just hazed out.
And all the people just taking pictures for Instagram.
(16:48):
It was so pretty.
Look at the purple colors and this giant cloud that just appeared.
Oh, my God.
And that night, literally, I continued walking through the night.
The moon came out.
And then that same cloud is like still going, covering up the whole moon.
It's like, this is just, it's so, and I didn't really fully answer your question earlier.
How do you stay optimistic?
It's impossible to not have those really tough moments.
(17:12):
And I viscerally remember when I was really going down to geoengineering rabbit hole,
which I want to throw a shout out to Daniel Prince before I go any further.
He's the guy that really pulled me into it.
He's another Bitcoin podcaster, awesome dude, fearless.
But anyway, this was, when was this?
Time's kind of blurring together.
I think this was probably summertime, summer of 24, if I'm not mistaken.
(17:37):
I was back home visiting family and just watching all these documentaries and going through the research and the data and really putting the pieces together and realizing this is really a thing.
And going out to my favorite little nature walks in the forest out there.
There's so many cool nature spots in the Northwest, as you know.
and seeing it with very different eyes as it rains a little bit through the leaves and you feel the
(17:59):
rain on your skin i used to absolutely love that but now i'm thinking oh there's fucking aluminum
in this rain yeah there is toxic rain and you're looking around at the trees and they're all
fucking dry and dying and oh you realize there used to be birds singing everywhere and butterflies
everywhere and bees everywhere in my mom's garden and now there's nothing there's a few squirrels
(18:21):
scurrying around and a couple of dead bees on the ground, they're all dead.
They're dying.
They're being killed by all this.
And they've actually tested the bumblebees and they are packed full of aluminum.
And this is why you see bugs sometimes just walking around in circles, acting wigged out
and just dying everywhere.
It's because they're really sensitive to that aluminum.
(18:42):
And it's going inside of us too.
This is the ultimate test of your resilience.
Can you make that realization that you are breathing in aluminum nanoparticles and still be optimistic and happy?
That's a real test.
And it will turn a lot of people away and make a lot of people go crazy.
But I'm sure you're in the same boat as me.
I feel like I'm a pretty mentally tough, resilient guy.
(19:05):
So if I don't just keep digging into this, who will?
We need the people out there who have the fortitude to do this, to do it, and use every single tool we can to get the word out and spread awareness.
And there are definitely some days where I get really excited and see really big pages start to figure it out.
When you see different social media accounts start to figure it out and they're posting about this, you're seeing the awareness growing and the tide is shifting.
(19:32):
And I think that is a crucial part of this.
how much do we trust the politicians i don't trust them at all anymore i've gone completely
back to like fuck all of them yep even even rfk is doing a bunch of shit now that just doesn't
make any sense compared to what he was saying before so i'm back to just hating them all which
is honestly my happy place i like hating all the politicians that's great as far as solutions for
(19:55):
the chemtrails type of thing i i'm sure we'll talk about this maybe this could be a transition
whenever you want to but the four emojis i have on my podcast i think that all three of those the
Bitcoin, Nostra, Steak, and Sunshine, I can lay out an argument for every single one of those,
how those do lead us to a solution. We can do that however you want to do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get into that. I just wanted to finish the geoengineering thing. I
(20:18):
don't know if you noticed. One thing I notice about it, because I go and run GreenLake,
that's one of the things I do. It makes my skin kind of itchy if they've been spraying. Even if
I don't see it, I can tell there's something in the air. There's aluminum. There's some sort of
chemicals because my skin will start to itch quite a bit. And that wasn't happening prior.
And that here in Seattle, as you know, we've got a homegrown psychopath, Bill Gates, and he's
(20:42):
one of the big proponents of we got to dim the sun because of global warming. And it's like,
come again? You know, I mean, he's on record. People say that's a conspiracy. I'm like,
he talks about it quite a bit for it being a quote unquote conspiracy theory. And he's got a
lot of money. And when I look at the, I'm surprised to hear that it's down there in Argentina so much,
(21:04):
actually, because I saw a graph once and it looked like it was heavy west of the Rockies,
but maybe that was just that month. Maybe they rotate around and it can be really difficult to
see who the hell is doing this and where did they get the okay to do this? That's what I'm not
seeing is where's the debate? Where's the, how are they just flying and dumping shit in the air?
(21:26):
And there's no accountability at all. It's just kind of like, no, we're doing this. Air is our jurisdiction and we can we can do whatever we want. It's a little it's a little weird to me. Right. It's a little it's surreal, you know.
um but to your point earlier that's the to me that's the litmus test because it definitely puts
me in victim a slight victim mentality fuck these guys these psychopaths you know uh and i don't feel
(21:53):
empowered i don't feel like we yet have a solution so it makes it does not make me feel uplifted i'm
still looking for a solution and trying to count on others that i may or may not be able to count
on to help me with it, like RFK Jr., right?
So let's tie that up.
But I had earmarked that you had written that the four things that will save humanity, here
(22:13):
we go, are Bitcoin, Noster, Steak, and Sunshine.
Man, oh man, I could put that up on my wall.
And before we get into the carnivore thing, which I want to talk to you about, because
I want to learn something about it, because I'm not completely into that world, and I've
seen your before and after pictures, but let's just touch on why you love Bitcoin and why you
(22:34):
love Noster, because I feel like people are hearing about Bitcoin and some are like, maybe
they got to hear it a few times. I think they're starting to see the value because it's on the
news. It's on ad money. I mean, people are talking about it. There's memes and it's all over the
internet. But Noster, I think people are still like, what is that? People still don't know what
(22:55):
it is So I guess I wanted to give you a chance to talk about both of them and why that helping you to feel optimistic And then we get into the stake conversation Yeah I mean part of the excitement of all four of these things Bitcoin Nostra stake and sunshine that I sort of chosen as my four pillars
We're very new to all of them in the sense of people really understanding them or knowing about them.
(23:18):
And so, yeah, I think we're very early to Bitcoin.
We're really, really, really early to Nostra.
Like if you talk to 100 people on the street, none of them are – zero out of 100 are going to know about Noster.
Maybe one if you're in a very sovereign place that values freedom.
But yeah, I mean these are the solutions that we need.
(23:41):
And what was your original question once more?
Oh, just like how do you see that – how do you see the Bitcoin Noster thing playing out for humanity?
Perfect.
I think I've maintained this over time that part of humanities, we're kind of charged with building.
If we don't like the centralized, corrupt, globalist systems, we need to build stuff that's decentralized to counter that, right?
(24:06):
And that includes in medicine.
That includes in all the things.
And Nostra is really the first thing I've seen that isn't centrally controlled.
Certainly X is Twitter, Facebook, and all that.
So this gives us a chance to build something where I can put something out and all my followers actually see it.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah.
Yeah, and I think that a really great way to frame this for people, you mentioned my blog post I wrote about how these are the four things that will save humanity.
(24:36):
Yeah.
I think a good way to frame this is we can just stick with geoengineering.
Let's use that as an example of this thing that it's really hard to not feel hopeless when you look outside and you see you're being sprayed.
Like you said, it's hard to not feel like a victim.
What do you do?
There's nothing you can physically do.
So let's use that as a perfect example of something and apply these four things I've chosen.
(24:59):
And so Bitcoin, what does it do? It sucks out the value of the fiat system, which fiat is what fuels all these insane spending projects where everyone's seen the USAID stuff or just this absurd list of crazy things that they're just blowing money out of their ass.
There's absolutely no rhyme or reason. They're spending money like they feel like they have to just throw it somewhere.
(25:22):
So they're throwing it all over the place, billions and billions of dollars. Bitcoin ends that because it puts a cap on the money and it forces responsibility.
because there's no more money printer.
It gets rid of the money printer.
So I think that people, I'm sure have seen in the news
how there are these occasional phases of governments
or BlackRock or whatever buying Bitcoin.
(25:45):
And then all the newbies come out and say,
oh, they're buying Bitcoin, so it's bad now.
These are the bad guys are getting Bitcoin.
I don't want them to succeed.
But here's the thing,
is that it's the ultimate example of a Trojan horse
because you have to get Bitcoin
if you want to be part of the future.
And they are being forced into it.
They have to bend the knee to it eventually.
(26:06):
And once they're in, everyone is in,
then the money itself is capped.
So they're trapped into that system.
So it's a little bit difficult to explain.
I hope that's a decent explanation.
But will the bad guys get some Bitcoin?
Of course they will.
They will have to at some point.
It's an open protocol so everyone can get it.
That's part of an open protocol so everyone can do it.
But the difference is that once we are in that system and by them joining the system, it just speeds up their own death.
(26:34):
Because once you're in that system, you can't play the fiat games anymore, being able to print on infinite money or when in BlackRock's case, just tapping on the shoulder of the Fed or the Congress people and just getting unlimited money for everything from the taxpayers.
They can't do that anymore, Bitcoin, because they don't have a money printer anymore.
So that's sort of a long-winded way of saying that Bitcoin will organically eliminate the stupid spending.
(26:58):
It forces responsibility.
So you have to actually act smartly with your money.
You're giving up real money.
Like right now, I'm sure you've seen that infographic, the four quadrants of how much someone will care about spending money.
It's your money spending it for yourself or your money spending for someone else, someone spending money for you.
(27:20):
Do you know what I mean?
Have you ever seen that before?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guy Swan did a really good video basically breaking that down of essentially saying that the government is spending other people's money that's not theirs, and they pay no consequence for doing badly with it because they have a money printer they can just ask for.
So that is the absolute worst combination of incentives.
They're never going to spend it well.
(27:41):
It's always going to be nonsense.
It's going to attract people that spend money on crap.
And so Bitcoin just blows that up, and it forces responsibility.
I've sort of gone in circles a couple times.
Oh, that's great.
I hope that sort of hits the point at home.
I went Bitcoin first because I think that's the biggest one because it costs money to run all these programs, to fill up these planes with all those chemicals and fly them all over the fucking world.
(28:06):
It's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
So that has to be a huge expense.
No one knows how much exactly it is.
we see some occasional headlines about like, you know, Bill Gates invests a couple hundred
million and, you know, blocking out the sun and, you know, the UK government, you know,
signed some deal.
They're going to use this many millions of taxpayers and they're just getting absolutely
hammered.
(28:26):
I don't think anywhere on earth is getting hammered harder than the UK right now when
you look at the pictures.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'm just attracted to the culture around Bitcoin because I don't need, it's not like
I need nothing but optimists around me.
But I also I don't want a whole bunch of doomers telling me we can't win this or humanity's fucked or good luck trying to create a new money or whatever.
(28:49):
I like what I'm seeing out of the Bitcoin developers and what's going on in the Nostra stuff.
I think we're only seeing like to your point earlier, we're really in the first or second inning.
and I could see I think if you and I had this conversation 10 years from now we would be like
holy shit we did not see all the development that was going to happen in these areas like we always
(29:14):
we were talking about stakes and sunshine and Noster and this stuff wasn't even thought of yet
and here we are and I think it sets the foundation for a pro-humanity you know pro-earth you know
there's a lot of like great principles that can be anchored in it.
And it is starting.
(29:34):
And one of the things that's happening is they're just shining the shining
light of truth into the dark corners of what is going on.
And there is some dark, dark corners.
I want to talk about that in a sec, but before we get to all that, you know,
you, I saw carnivore. I've been circling around carnivore.
I absolutely love grass fed steak, especially high grade.
(29:57):
I'm like, oh, hell yeah.
I, my body just loves meat.
And I remember when I was younger, I had a vegetarian girlfriend.
So of course I was vegetarian for like a year to try to impress her, but I look like shit.
We all had one of those.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yoga girl who was like, you're not going to eat meat.
Are you?
I'm not going to sleep with you.
If you're going to eat meat, I'm like done.
(30:18):
I don't need meat, man.
So, but I look like shit according to all my friends and I didn't feel good.
I was kind of green.
And then when we broke up, as soon as I started eating steak again, everything got better.
Like I could just feel like my testosterone, like, oh, God, this is so good.
And I saw your before and after pictures.
(30:39):
You have a before carnivore diet and after.
And I'm like, holy shit.
I mean, you looked fine in the before picture, but come on.
You look transformed in the after picture, like so much better.
and I'm kind of a foot in both worlds.
So I wanted to get your take on it
because it's a little scary
(30:59):
to think of me eating nothing but carnivore.
That seems too extreme.
We've kind of been taught like vegetables are good for you
and all this stuff,
but I think we've been kind of duped a little bit.
I think they've said red meat's really bad for you
and people have internalized that belief.
So even if we set that aside and go,
hey, I love red meat, I love meat,
(31:20):
it's another step to say vegetables are they are they still good for you or are those not good for
you because i know a lot of nutritionists are saying no don't throw out vegetables right and so
i think carnivore diet may be kind of one of those extreme uh i don't want to say only extreme people
do it but it's an experiment and what did you find and as you were down the rabbit hole what
(31:44):
did you discover specifically about vegetables because i eat a lot of vegetables along with my
stake. So I just wanted to get your take on that and how you navigated that. Did you go down the
rabbit hole and then go, I'm just doing carnivore as an experiment? How did that all unfold for you,
Ben? Yeah. So that was my second rabbit hole, I would say after Bitcoin. And I would say for
(32:04):
anyone who wants to go along that ride with me, this is why it's so cool to have a podcast,
because I can go back and actually listen to the episodes. I started my podcast episode one with
Peruvian bull our mutual friend in August of 2023 and literally in September I decided to start the
carnivore diet as an experiment to see what happens so like right as I start the podcast it was going
(32:25):
to be only about Bitcoin and all of a sudden I'm like going down this other new rabbit hole so
like the the first 10-15 episodes of the podcast are all about Bitcoin and then it takes a turn
into a bunch of carnivore stuff and I have a bunch of people on so anyone who wants to really go down
a full rabbit hole um i would just go listen to my podcast which is just my name the ben worman
podcast and just find the as soon as that you start seeing meat in the title yeah um but yeah
(32:51):
so i want to give credit to the guy who completely pulled me down this one pretty single-handedly
well first of all the one who got on my radar in the first place was safe adina moose
the big point standard author he is just consistently is he is he yeah 100 oh yeah
I saw him clashing with people on Twitter with the fruit and honey people.
(33:17):
Oh, you need fruit too? Honey is good for you.
And he's like, no, that's bullshit. Just eat steak.
No sugar is good for you.
And so I was like, that's weird.
Because at that point, like in 2023, I was sort of on the meat, fruit and honey vibe personally.
Because there's a huge wave of health influencers that are really gathering on that right now.
And so that was where I was.
(33:39):
and I started hearing safedines talk about it.
That's kind of interesting.
But the guy I was going to mention earlier,
the one who really was my rabbit hole guy down this one,
who is like, to me, the safedine of the carnivore world,
the same sort of character.
His name is Dr. Anthony Chafee.
And if you go to my podcast and listen to my episode with him
(33:59):
and just listen to that,
that's probably my favorite episode I've ever done.
I still go back and listen to it
because this guy has just the most insane brain.
and I've ever listened to.
He just like, when he opens his mouth,
he just unloads a straight 30 minutes of constant signal.
It's like, how can I disagree with this guy?
And he, he has this presentation he made on his YouTube channel
(34:23):
called plants are trying to kill you.
And essentially this presentation that he makes and all of his videos and his his his podcast called the plant free MD which I highly recommend um essentially go through that logical journey of understanding
Vegetables were never good for us.
Fruit was never good for us.
(34:45):
No plants were ever good for human beings.
We are carnivores.
We actually are carnivores.
And that's his main thing he preaches.
And I can give you the gist of why for on the vegetable side and the fruit
side, just sort of an overview.
yeah for me vegetables it was easier to understand that those were not good the fruit and honey
people pretty much agree with that and that's where i was at that point where you're kind of
(35:05):
realizing okay um these are this is the body of the plant like the leaves for example they don't
want to be eaten in nature so they fill those leaves with poison to not get eaten they're
stationary things so their only way to survive since they can't run around or fight back is to
fill themselves with poison. And so that's why in nature, when you see these crazy plants
(35:27):
everywhere, even the vegans know you're not supposed to go in the forest and just eat
trees and leaves, or you're going to end up very sick or sometimes die. But then they'll go to the
grocery store and they'll see like a little plastic bag full of spinach that's 99% the same
thing and think, oh, this is healthy. And so the question is, why do we think it's healthy in the
(35:47):
first place. And it really just goes back to farming. The agricultural revolution was where,
you know, we had these farmers start to sell this stuff and it started to really shift the paradigm,
like as soon as food became more like a commodity of being sold. But yeah, just, I love keeping sort
of the nature base though. So vegetables, it's the part of the plant that, you know, wants to stay
(36:11):
alive to be able to reproduce. It doesn't want you to eat it. It's going to poison you. So there's
no reason to eat it, period. It's full of plant toxins. Moving on to fruit. That one was harder
for me to understand because- Nature wants you to eat fruit, it seems like, right?
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is what the fruit and honey people still say,
is that, oh, it's super bright colored and beautiful. It tastes good. Don't you trust
your taste buds? Here's the problem. Start with the nature perspective like I did for the other.
(36:38):
Plants want to survive and reproduce, okay? Same premise we started with before. They create these
fruit to get other animals to eat them and spread their seeds around. The tree does not exist to
create healthy humans. They don't care about you. They want to reproduce. So they fill these things
with some sugar to make it taste good so they can get things, other things to eat them and spread
(37:00):
the seeds around. They're kind of tricking you into doing it, you know? And so certain animals
are very specially designed to have that stuff, like birds and berries, for example. Their digestive
systems are very basic, which it makes it really good for those types of plants.
Now, when you look at, here's another aspect of it to understand is, and let me know if
(37:23):
you wanted to stop and ask any questions.
I'm just throwing all kinds of stuff at you here.
I'll throw one more point out is that when you look up any fruit or vegetable on Google
and type in like 500 years ago and see what it looks like, every single thing that you
get at the grocery store today or even the most organic farmer's market ever a watermelon for
(37:45):
example like you look at now it's this giant foot long juicy beast of a thing 500 years ago let alone
5 000 years ago it was this tiny little mostly green like root and you can repeat that for any
of these things like tomatoes used to be like the super toxic little berry um name any fruit any
(38:09):
vegetable out there, it's been heavily bioengineered by farmers, like I mentioned earlier, who are
trying to sell more of them. So when they have their farm and they make a bunch of these fruits
or vegetables, they will only keep the biggest, juiciest, sugariest one to reproduce the next
season. So over thousands of years, you have a massive changing of these plants. And they are
(38:31):
now completely man-made. And like I said, even if you're getting the most organic kind, we're not
even talking about the glyphosate and herbicides that's a whole nother you know ball game yeah it
makes everything way worse which is 90 of what people are eating or more from the grocery store
probably like 99 honestly um but even considering that if you get the absolute best kind these are
still bioengineered seeds that men have made to be super sugary and sweet so every single fruit
(38:56):
you see now just a sugar bomb and uh so that that's a bit of a rant did i answer your question
You did.
I didn't even get into why meat is good, but that's why plants are, in fact, not healthy.
They never were.
They are just fiber and sugar.
Fiber is literally bad for you.
It's not good for you.
It's just bulk.
It makes you shit more, and it gives you digestive problems.
(39:18):
I don't know if you dug into my blog that much, but I just wrote a post about digestive problems.
If you're having digestive problems, stop eating plants because they are literally pure fiber that can't be digested.
There are people out there on YouTube now in the carnivore community now who there's this one guy named Kent Carnivore who had Crohn's disease for many years, a really bad gut problem.
(39:41):
Yeah.
To the point where he had to get his colon removed and have a colostomy bag put in.
And so he thought, okay, this is interesting.
Well, I mean, first of all, this sucks, but we can now do some interesting experiments here and see what happened.
So he would eat different things and see what came out in the bag.
and he would eat a bunch of meat,
(40:01):
like just a bunch of steak or ground beef or chicken or eggs or whatever,
and nothing would come out in the bag or a tiny bit of liquid,
basically nothing.
And then he would eat like pineapple or broccoli or salad
or any of these plants that people eat.
They would come out untouched in the bag, Tony.
Oh, my God.
(40:21):
Like he literally said,
they would sometimes still have bite marks in them, literally.
So human gut pH is extremely critical for understanding what an animal is supposed to eat.
So sheep and cows have extremely high pH.
It's like six or seven on the one to seven scale.
I think it was seven, pretty sure.
(40:43):
It's very high, very basic, which is basically made for fermenting plants.
A lion, which is like the most stereotypical carnivore you could think of, super low.
It's like two.
It's really acidic.
is made for only eating meat.
You want to guess what a human is?
Whoa.
1.5.
Oh my God.
We are more carnivorous than lions are.
(41:05):
We have the same gut makeup almost as a vulture,
which literally just roamed around eating rotting meat all the time.
That's what we're supposed to eat.
And this is why people like him who do this test
and actually see what's happening in their gut,
when they eat these plants, it's not digesting any of it.
We don't have the ability to digest this stuff.
(41:25):
And this is why so many people have constipation, gut problems, indigestion, bloating.
Oh my gosh, everyone in the world is bloated right now.
Everywhere I go and travel, you can just see everyone just has this big bloated belly.
And it's just become so normalized.
And what I want to tell them is, bro, just stop eating plants.
If you just go carnivore, carnivore will fix that.
(41:48):
That's literally fermentation in your belly what's happening.
You're making me want to do an experiment like you did.
But do you – so you don't eat any plants or fruit.
Are you all carnivore at this point, all meat products?
Because that's like – I'm like, holy cow, that is a drastic change in what I do.
I'm thinking like, oh, maybe I could get more meat and less veg.
(42:12):
But you're saying, no, just go cold turkey, right?
I haven't had any vegetables or fruit now for almost two years.
Holy cow.
Um, but you look great.
Barring a few very rare exceptions.
I do love experiments all the time.
So every once in a while, there are some people that are like, oh, you have to be a hundred
percent all the time for me.
Every once in a while, I'll just throw something in just to see what happens.
(42:33):
Yeah.
Um, and it's, it, I keep a journal, keep track of things.
And it's always very interesting because after you've done strict carnivore for one to three
months, and then you eat something that seems so benign that you used to just have all the
time.
When I was in Mexico, the hostel I was staying at over there, this was last year sometime, I did just that.
(42:53):
I had three months of perfection.
I was having steak, salt, and water, nothing else.
Not even butter or eggs.
That's the lion diet, which is the most peak version where you don't even have any dairy or eggs.
Literally just ruminant red meat, salt, and water.
That's it.
I did that for three months, and it was amazing, by the way.
We can talk about how your taste buds change and you no longer crave those things after a while.
(43:17):
And you actually do love it every day.
I know it sounds crazy to people like, how do you not get bored of this?
Your craving shift to the point where as I'm sitting here right now at 6.50 p.m., I haven't eaten since yesterday.
I only eat one big meal of just a bowl of ground beef per day right now.
I've been doing that for weeks.
I can't wait to go eat my ground beef.
(43:38):
I'm craving it right now.
After we're done, I'm probably going to go eat it.
I don't crave anything else anymore.
like I used to. What's interesting, Ben, is I am a, I've been sober from alcohol, uh, for 12 years.
And so I haven't drank in 12 years, but what replaced it, and this runs in my family is a
massive sweet tooth. So I, I have cravings of sugar, uh, desserts, certainly fruits and honey
(44:06):
and all that. I gobble that stuff up and it's kind of driven me in a certain way. So just talking to
you, I'm like, how amazing would that be to really take that on and say, that's just an extension of
your addiction. You were getting lots of sugar with alcohol. That was terrible for you, but the
(44:26):
sugar is not real good for you either. And you're finding sneaky ways to get it and pretending that
they're healthy. It's blueberries. It's honey. It's blah, blah, blah. But I always carry this sneaky
suspicion that I'm dancing around maybe the core addiction and there's maybe a better way to eat
and I've just not put my finger quite on it. Does that make sense? You just absolutely nailed it.
That's exactly what's happening. And that's extremely common too, is that when people give
(44:50):
up one addiction, they kind of fall back onto a new one and carbs and sugar are so commonly that
thing. And here's one of the mind blowing things that I learned while going down that rabbit hole
as well is the fructose molecule.
So when you drink alcohol, it's just straight sugar in your body.
(45:10):
It's straight sugar.
And fruit just breaks down to sugar as well.
Like when you look at the actual molecules they break down to,
it's all the same fructose.
And so you really start thinking about these things in molecules
because all your body sees as molecules.
With our eyeballs, we see a watermelon and a celery stick
(45:31):
and a shot of vodka, and we see very different things.
But every single carbohydrate,
and all those things are plant-based, by the way.
They all come from plants.
Every single plant-based carbohydrate, which is all of them,
they all turn into sugar in your body.
It's a mixture of glucose and fructose.
So that's why your body,
since you stopped drinking the fructose from alcohol,
(45:51):
it still wants that fructose.
So you're just getting it from fruit now.
And it's still going straight to your liver.
This is the thing that people don't get,
is that this is why so many vegans and frugivores
eating tons of fruit.
They not only eat fruit,
only do their teeth rot out of their skull, but they get really bad liver problems because all
this fruit is just going straight to detoxing through the liver. So you're still beating up
(46:11):
your liver by eating fruit. People don't know this. And yeah, I highly recommend trying this
now that, you know, you're talking about this because I think this will be a very enlightening
thing for you. And just like any addiction is tough to get over it. You know, those,
those first two weeks. So I'm not going to lie. There's some fear that's coming up,
even having this conversation with you.
(46:34):
Yeah.
So I'm looking at you on the other side of the river going,
how do I get over there without crossing this river?
It's challenging, but I mean,
this is a base camp for men mentality.
Am I right?
We challenge ourselves.
We do these things.
Exactly.
It's on recording now.
You can't get, you can't walk back it now.
I know.
Well, and the proof is how you look.
(46:55):
I mean, you look like you're an epitome of hell, dude.
You look fantastic.
especially when I see the pictures of before your your transformation so I want some of that and I'm
I could be so much better though like I my weakness now is like I I don't exercise nearly
enough like oh yeah I'm so busy like I'm just constantly grinding out podcasts and blog posts
and working and I know that's a total excuse um but you know the the times where I really settle in
(47:21):
and get to go to the gym for a while I feel great and you know the the here's a crazy fact something
I noticed that you might notice this too. How old are you? If you don't mind me asking, I'm 58.
58. I've heard so many people that were like 50, 60, 70s do this and have a similar experience to
what I'm about to tell you. Um, when I was just a few months into this thing and in the carnivore
(47:43):
dad I remember the exact day I was sitting and working on my laptop Like I usually do in this hostel And I could just feel my arms were like more muscular
And I hadn't been exercising.
I hadn't been lifting weights.
Literally just when you eat a ton of protein, it just starts to fill out your body.
(48:04):
And there are people out there seeing abs and having muscles for the first time just by going on a carnivore diet and not even exercising.
which is a crazy crazy thing for people because you think about how could that be i thought you
needed to lift everything as a build muscle but think about uh that example i used earlier lions
at the zoo they're not exercising no other muscular animals like lifting weights in the gym but they
(48:27):
just have muscle yeah and it's because they eat their correct diet they're eating shit loads of
meat and that protein is just going into your muscles and filling it out and so for me i was
noticing that this is crazy. I look better. My muscles are bigger without even exercising.
And once you actually start exercising, you keep it much more and it becomes much quicker to
actually build that muscle for all the men out there. That should be all of them who care about
(48:49):
muscle. This is like a multiplier on your gains. And Dr. Anthony Chafee, the guy I mentioned earlier
is great for that. He's really into athletics. He used to play pro level rugby in Seattle and
he's from Seattle too, by the way, another Seattle guy. We've got a bunch of legends in the house,
But he has a bunch of people on his podcast who are bodybuilders, pro athletes, and they're just saying this isn't fair that I'm on this diet because I'm literally just crushing everybody all the time.
(49:16):
They're constantly having to, you know, suck down these like sugar gel packs and they're running or exercising and, you know, carb loading before their meals and crashing out.
When you're on a carb war diet, you're just in superhuman mode.
That's awesome, dude.
Zero carbs, zero sugar.
You just on a whole different level And I didn understand that until I did it myself and I excited for you to do it and to hear back Yeah absolutely I in I going to go listen to your podcast
(49:40):
I'm going to give you a chance to just tell people where they can find you.
But I just wanted to thank you.
We're running out of time a bit.
We didn't quite touch on everything.
I wanted to talk about rabbit holes when they get dark.
But I want to save that for part two.
You'll come back again and talk to us, right?
Absolutely.
There's no way we're not doing more.
We barely scratched the surface.
Yeah, yeah. And there's also you gave me a documentary. I want to I want to read. I want to go check out that documentary. That's going to open up a whole bunch of other things for us. But where can people find you and your work and your podcast? Yeah. How can people connect and what you got going on right now?
(50:13):
Yeah, people can go to my website, benworman.com. My last name is W-E-H-R-M-A-N. I have the Ben Wormin podcast. I have my blog there where I write about all this stuff. And yeah, just in Nostra, like I know you talk about Nostra. We didn't really get to go into that a lot yet. I'm sure we'll do that in the future, but super bullish on Nostra. It's freeing speech for everyone. There's no one in charge of it. You can zap each other Bitcoin. It's a huge, powerful tool.
(50:41):
I put it basically on the same level as Bitcoin in importance, which I never thought I'd say.
Huge, powerful tool.
I'm on there as well.
Just same name, Ben Worman.
And still struggling on Twitter, but mostly using it as a place to send people over to Nostra.
Yeah, that's good.
That's a good use for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's pretty much it.
(51:02):
Just website, blog, podcast, socials.
I'll be all over the place.
Did you see Jack Dorsey got suspended?
Yes.
I thought that.
I reached out to him on Noster.
I said hey Jack I said sorry to hear that Join the club or something like that I thought it was hilarious man For listeners who may not know the literal creator of Twitter just he being suspended on Twitter now
(51:26):
for posting the bad things.
And so he posted this on Nostra,
a screenshot of his suspension.
And it just, I mean, everyone just loved it.
Like this is such a great example
of like why Nostra exists.
Even he knows this, you know,
the creator of the centralized platform
is like completely all in Nostra
and you can't be more bullsh on it.
Yeah, beautiful.
Well, thanks, Ben, for coming on and sharing your insight and your wisdom.
(51:47):
Love chatting with you.
Feel like we could sit around the campfire and talk all night and really look forward to further chats with you, buddy.
Looking forward to it.
We absolutely will do more in the future.
Keep in touch.
Okay.
Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
I absolutely love it when I'm learning new things and new perspectives from a guest in real time.
(52:08):
And I will be experimenting with this carnivore diet, Ben.
It's super confronting for me.
I just need to figure out when and what that looks like.
I might need to get some buy-in from my wife to really make this a doable experiment,
and I will keep you posted on all of it.
Thank you, Base Campers, and we'll see you around the fire next week.
If you find value in our show and wish to show us some love,
(52:29):
we are now making that very easy to do.
You simply go to www.basecampformin.com and click on Donate Support Base Camp.
You'll find an easy way to make either monthly donations for as little as $5 a month,
or you can donate just once.
We love the monthly donation
and hope to build this up over the coming months,
but any show of support is greatly appreciated, honestly.
(52:50):
Thank you for your support
and for helping to keep Basecamp
as a resource on your hero's journey.
That's our show for today.
Thank you for listening.
Men, good luck in all your endeavors
and good luck on your hero's journey.
This is Tony Rezac
and you're listening to Basecamp for Men.
Hello, welcome to Basecamp for Men. I'm your host, Tony Rezac. This is a show that gives
(00:10):
you insights and resources in how to live a more courageous life. We look to assist you
on your hero's journey in any way that we can. Truth is our compass, humanity, our tribe.
Welcome and let's get started.
Hello, Basecampers. I hope you're all doing well. One of the things that we've been tasked
with you and I is to consider and when appropriate to adopt new ways of seeing things. We've been
(00:32):
given so many false notions in so many areas of life, government, education, media and health,
for instance. The best we can do, in my humble opinion, is to keep an open mind and to continue
to look for ideas and people that uplift and inspire you, for they are your fellow travelers
in this great awakening that we're experiencing. Humanity seems to be emerging from the fog of
(00:53):
deception. Our antennas are getting more sharply attuned to the truth. And the more truth that
comes to light, the more confident we become in our path and in ourselves and one another.
What are some of these new ideas that are emerging that can help elevate us? Well,
we're going to cover much of this and more today with a man that I've had the great fortune to
connect with recently. This could easily be two men sitting around the campfire talking far and
(01:16):
wide about our shared future. And before we get to the episode, I wanted to share two memes with
you that I think will help tee this one up. One is from my guest's website, a quote from the writer
Timothy Ferris, who says, quote, the specialist spends decades making incremental improvements,
while the curious generalist consistently measures improvement in quantum leaps, unquote. Oh,
(01:36):
and finally, one from my own website, quote, truth is also seeking the seeker, unquote. Enjoy the
episode. My guest today is Ben Wurman. Ben is a fellow seeker of truth, photographer,
digital nomad, writer, and podcaster. Here is my interview with Ben Wurman.
(02:02):
All right, I am here with Ben Wurman, photographer and truther, podcaster, Ben Wurman. Ben,
welcome to Basecamp for Men. It's great to have you on the show.
Tony, it is a wonderful pleasure to connect.
I'm so glad that our friend Peruvian Bull got us together.
A bunch of Seattle brothers are all finding each other on the interwebs, and it's happy to be here.
(02:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I was really excited.
I've been eyeing your stuff on Noster, just writing excellent content about all kinds of stuff that I'm into and just doing a great job.
So I was really excited for him to connect us.
And I guess just to start with, maybe just give us a little bit of a background, like where you're from, where you grew up, what you might do for work, where are you at now?
(02:47):
You're kind of a nomad from what I understand.
So just give us a little sketch of your background and what you're doing and where you're doing it from now.
Yeah.
I can't even remember where you were originally raised, but I know you're in Seattle now.
But I was born and raised in the Northwest, born in Portland, Oregon, then raised in on
Woodby Island, which is just about an hour and a half north of Seattle and amazing, beautiful
(03:12):
place to grow up.
And I was one of the people who I really did appreciate growing up.
I know a lot of people there just like, oh, this boring farm town.
There's nothing to do here.
There's nobody here.
It was really small, Coopville, where I was from.
But I always loved it because there's so much nature everywhere.
Just where my parents live right now, when I go back to visit, it's right downstream
from the beach. I can literally walk down to the beach with my shoes off and I can take my mountain
(03:35):
bike out into the hills and the mountains and just go riding all day. And it's just a really
cool place to grow up. Went to school at the University of Washington, right near the neck
of the woods there. And after that, I got a regular full-time job for a short period of time
and quickly realized I hate this. I don't like doing this. So I just started traveling. And in
(03:57):
2018, I have a little bit of a funny story for how I even got into traveling to begin with.
I was living in Central District in Seattle in a townhouse with some frat buddies from college.
And we were having this house party one night.
And one of my roommate's friends had just gotten back from a six-month working holiday in Australia.
(04:21):
And so I chatted with him about this.
And we were both just, you know, drinking at the party and just I'm just absorbing this guy's story and just thinking, man, this sounds so cool.
This sounds so cool.
And so literally in the middle of the party, as I'm drunk, I go down to my room.
I grab my laptop.
I come up.
I just clear the beer cans off the table.
And I literally sign up for this visa on the table in the middle of this party.
(04:45):
I'm like, I want to go to Australia.
This sounds amazing.
That's awesome.
And so the next morning I'd wake up hungover and just thinking, I don't regret that at all.
I think this is exactly what I need to do right now.
Let's go to Australia.
So a few months later, I'm on a plane over there.
And man, ever since then, I was 2018.
So it's been seven years of basically slow traveling, I would call.
(05:07):
I was never the type to just go one night per place or even a few nights per place and just keep moving around.
I like to settle down places.
So that very first trip, I did four months in Melbourne, the city, the first day I went to Australia, and then eight months in Queensland, up in Cairns.
So in the very beginning, I just like to settle down.
I just like to have my home move around every once in a while.
(05:30):
That's great.
I give you a little bit of flexibility.
And so I landed with usually two home visits per year back in Cooville, which is a great place to recharge.
And like I said, just stand on a beach, walk on a beach, go bike riding, just all the nature around the Northwest is just so great for just healing any of those months I spent in the city.
And yeah, so I'm still doing that to this day, to be honest.
(05:52):
I just turned 30 in October, so I definitely do more and more think about, okay, when's the next step of actually settling down, getting married, starting a family, having that dream Bitcoin or homestead with all the meat I could ever ask for in my freezer.
and really locking in good water quality and a good filter for that
(06:18):
and really being able to lock in these health things
because, as I'm sure we'll talk about, I'm super into the health rabbit holes.
How do you optimize your health in the best way possible?
And some of them are so impossible while traveling.
And the biggest one for me right now in Argentina where I am
has been water and just drinking water.
And it is so freaking impossible to find anything that's not plastic bottles.
(06:40):
and I know how terrible that is.
So it's just been a constant struggle.
And right now I literally can't find it anywhere in this town I'm at.
So I'm drinking out.
I get the biggest plastic jugs I can find
and just cringe my way through these things,
knowing how many microplastics are in those,
going and working out, sweating, detoxing as much as I can,
grounding, trying to undo the damage.
But these are the trade-offs when you're sort of living a life
(07:02):
of floating around in the abyss as you are exposed to the fiat world
and all of its ridiculousness
and people just aren't thinking about health and having these things dialed in anywhere.
Even in these parts of the world where people are more healthy than Americans on average,
but still people just aren't thinking.
Their bandwidth is still shrunk down by the inflationary environment we're in
(07:26):
with their money being stolen from them all the time.
People are stressed everywhere.
And that's something I've learned from all my travels, no matter where I went,
which was Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Guatemala,
everywhere people are struggling.
And so this is why I'm a huge Bitcoiners. I'm super glad that you get into that on your show a lot. Bitcoin is the solution in my eyes, and that's what I'm up to right now.
(07:48):
That's fantastic, Ben. You know, the health thing, which we're going to get into, it's interesting that it goes hand in hand in the Bitcoin community.
It's not left out. If it was only Bitcoin as digital store of value and all these things, I don't think it would be quite as interesting for me.
and we'll get into that.
I want to start with the first question I had for you.
(08:09):
But yeah, it's just, I love that Bitcoiners
have a view of the whole thing, diet, health,
like they're clued in as to where we want to go
with the future.
And it's just really, really great.
But you write quite a bit, like I do,
about this spiritual war that's been happening
and we're calling it, we still call it humanity on one side
(08:30):
and the globalists or the cabal,
or I've used the sociopaths.
There's a lot of different ways to describe them.
And a lot of us got banned for some of the things that we were saying on social media.
Are you optimistic right now?
I think there was a sea change and people may or may not like Donald Trump, but it seemed like when he won the presidency this November, things started to move in a direction really rapidly.
(08:59):
Things were starting to happen.
And then here in the United States, as you can probably guess, half the country or slightly more than half, let's say, since he won the popular vote, are very excited.
I think they are willing to overlook certain things that they're not sure how they're going to come out going, look, I think he has the country's best interest at heart.
(09:22):
I think he's doing a lot of good things.
And then you have this other large group on the left and even in the center who who may be feeling like there's they're freaking out because the the the speed of what's happening is not what they're used to.
I think you and I, I can handle things happening fast.
(09:45):
Even that being said, I'm like, whoa, what else?
What's going on?
That was a fast week.
But for people that have been really married to the status quo, this all looks like somebody is tearing the hell out of the status quo structures, which, to be fair, are immensely corrupt.
So it should be, you know, sayonara, goodbye. We don't want that anymore. But there's a group that still, like, Trump's a dictator, Trump's evil, and everything he's doing is bad.
(10:15):
And so we're kind of in this weird spot in this war where I feel super optimistic because of all the things we're going to talk about.
But I guess I want to just ask you, like, are you are you feeling like things are going in a good direction?
What has you optimistic? And yeah, where are we at and how are things occurring down there in Argentina as well with all this stuff?
(10:37):
Are they also kind of split between two groups?
I mean short answer is I'm definitely optimistic and I think that like you I know that you always
talk about this on your show how you know we have to be optimistic you can't really be down in the
dumps and expect to win this thing you know we have to really dig deep sometimes to stay optimistic
(10:57):
because there's a lot of dark things out there and when you learn more and more about the dark
forces that play that are we are you know up against it's daunting sometimes yeah and uh it
there are some tough moments. I know that another one that you are digging into is a whole
geoengineering chemtrails thing, that 5 millionth conspiracy theory thing that the conspiracy
(11:19):
theorists were right about. It's happening. I can see it outside right now. It's literally
happening here in Argentina It everywhere It much better here than it was back home In late January I was actually stayed at this was fun I stayed in Seattle at UW for a week I got an Airbnb just a block away from the old frat house
I was in at the University of Washington
(11:40):
just so I could like record some podcast episodes
around campus, the place I used to study.
And of course, like, it's just insane to think back
at, you know, when I was, you know, 1920
and they're just having no clue about the world.
And now I'm like looking with just completely fresh eyes
everywhere like looking up and just seeing like on my walk down to the the suzlo library there's
(12:00):
just freaking trails all over the place in the sky and all the kids are just looking down at their
feet as they're walking to class i have no idea what's what's going on and another example there's
one really nice sunny day i just immediately went to the the quad and just took my shirt off and just
laid down like a starfish to get my sunlight because i know that's really good and people
are looking at y'all weird because it was like winter time it's cold out why are you shirtless
(12:22):
in the sun that's crazy like this i this is really good for you actually i know that whatever
medical school teaching you're getting is it is terrible and you have a sunscreen deficiency or
whatever but um that was just wild and regarding that the political points you brought up i it's so
funny that my politics are just been all over the place over the last several years
(12:44):
growing up in the northwest i was very very much hard left blue everything me too for the majority
of my life, just like you. And I would say that finally started changing when I went down the
Bitcoin rabbit hole. Like you said, that's the really good core rabbit hole that branches off
into everything else. Once you understand the money and the power and how the government operates,
(13:06):
now fiat and the money printer of the central banking operates. So I went from completely blue
to like, huh, this is all kind of crazy, sort of libertarian. And then for this last election cycle,
I continued putting out the libertarian style context.
That will always be my thing.
Just forget about all these people.
I don't want to be led by anybody.
I want to lead myself.
(13:27):
Internally, I was definitely thinking, oh, man, things would be worse if Kamala won.
So I hope Trump wins just because I know that there are more awake people on that side that need a win.
And I will say it's now March, and he's done way worse than I thought he would.
That may be a hot take for – I don't know what your audience feels about that.
(13:48):
But just the way that the money is being spent and the Epstein files continuing to be kicked down the road into JFK files and they're like making new laws about, you know, anti-Semitism.
You get deported out of the country if you question anything about Israel and then you scratch your head and do a little more digging on that.
Like, oh, like all of the dough shavings times a bazillion, they're just sending this over to Israel.
(14:11):
So the whole Israel thing has been a new rabbit hole, which we can go there or not if you want to.
I know that's a whole different can of worms, but I think I think we'll save that for a part two, because I think that could be a really good one.
But, yeah, I've all I've often scratched my head.
It's like, why? Why is Israel always get the preferential treatment with the money laundering?
You know, and yeah, yeah.
(14:34):
And I and I feel you, you know, there's there's times when I think it's dangerous to just say, oh, the White Hats have it.
there's nothing we need to do because like for instance to your point about the chemtrails and
the geoengineering the aerosol spraying what are we going to do about that i know there's people
like cal washington who are doing notice of liability and they're doing all these legal
(14:59):
things to get them to stop and rfk jr has been on record saying we're going to put an end we're
going to put an end to this this spraying of the skies he has said that we're going to stop this
crime is what he said on like a tweet i know and so and i don't want to be so high time preference
that i expect everything to happen at once like bitcoin has taught me look zoom out keep the faith
(15:23):
keep your vibration high because my family freaks out over the spring it'll be a beautiful day
in seattle and all of a sudden you're like damn it look at that again and then white hay is just
white sound just turned into grow light yeah and gross man you can point some people you can point
to it and they will literally not see it and i'm like this has got to be the weirdest matrix moment
(15:47):
where i'm pointing and going do you see that do you see all that spraying up there and they'll
look up and go what are you talking about i don't see anything i'm like i heard it's water vapor
it's just it's ice crystals yeah and you're like no it's not that at all look i go stand here for
15 minutes and watch what this does to the sky or like three hours yeah it doesn't go away no it
(16:08):
doesn't covers the entire sky i saw this last night yeah i was doing one of my podcast walks
i do everywhere i go no matter where i'm traveling i i try to end every single day that i can with
um not looking at the screen i i get on my phone and i put on my most reddit out filter
just so i can you know see what i'm typing i just listen to podcasts airplane mode always
(16:28):
and go walk around and just get some blood flowing before I go to bed.
That's great.
Because I definitely have like a lot of grinding sessions on my laptop.
I'm sure many listeners do that are in this information war.
So, yeah, last night, literally the sunset was stolen.
It was just completely sprayed over, just hazed out.
And all the people just taking pictures for Instagram.
(16:48):
It was so pretty.
Look at the purple colors and this giant cloud that just appeared.
Oh, my God.
And that night, literally, I continued walking through the night.
The moon came out.
And then that same cloud is like still going, covering up the whole moon.
It's like, this is just, it's so, and I didn't really fully answer your question earlier.
How do you stay optimistic?
It's impossible to not have those really tough moments.
(17:12):
And I viscerally remember when I was really going down to geoengineering rabbit hole,
which I want to throw a shout out to Daniel Prince before I go any further.
He's the guy that really pulled me into it.
He's another Bitcoin podcaster, awesome dude, fearless.
But anyway, this was, when was this?
Time's kind of blurring together.
I think this was probably summertime, summer of 24, if I'm not mistaken.
(17:37):
I was back home visiting family and just watching all these documentaries and going through the research and the data and really putting the pieces together and realizing this is really a thing.
And going out to my favorite little nature walks in the forest out there.
There's so many cool nature spots in the Northwest, as you know.
and seeing it with very different eyes as it rains a little bit through the leaves and you feel the
(17:59):
rain on your skin i used to absolutely love that but now i'm thinking oh there's fucking aluminum
in this rain yeah there is toxic rain and you're looking around at the trees and they're all
fucking dry and dying and oh you realize there used to be birds singing everywhere and butterflies
everywhere and bees everywhere in my mom's garden and now there's nothing there's a few squirrels
(18:21):
scurrying around and a couple of dead bees on the ground, they're all dead.
They're dying.
They're being killed by all this.
And they've actually tested the bumblebees and they are packed full of aluminum.
And this is why you see bugs sometimes just walking around in circles, acting wigged out
and just dying everywhere.
It's because they're really sensitive to that aluminum.
(18:42):
And it's going inside of us too.
This is the ultimate test of your resilience.
Can you make that realization that you are breathing in aluminum nanoparticles and still be optimistic and happy?
That's a real test.
And it will turn a lot of people away and make a lot of people go crazy.
But I'm sure you're in the same boat as me.
I feel like I'm a pretty mentally tough, resilient guy.
(19:05):
So if I don't just keep digging into this, who will?
We need the people out there who have the fortitude to do this, to do it, and use every single tool we can to get the word out and spread awareness.
And there are definitely some days where I get really excited and see really big pages start to figure it out.
When you see different social media accounts start to figure it out and they're posting about this, you're seeing the awareness growing and the tide is shifting.
(19:32):
And I think that is a crucial part of this.
how much do we trust the politicians i don't trust them at all anymore i've gone completely
back to like fuck all of them yep even even rfk is doing a bunch of shit now that just doesn't
make any sense compared to what he was saying before so i'm back to just hating them all which
is honestly my happy place i like hating all the politicians that's great as far as solutions for
(19:55):
the chemtrails type of thing i i'm sure we'll talk about this maybe this could be a transition
whenever you want to but the four emojis i have on my podcast i think that all three of those the
Bitcoin, Nostra, Steak, and Sunshine, I can lay out an argument for every single one of those,
how those do lead us to a solution. We can do that however you want to do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get into that. I just wanted to finish the geoengineering thing. I
(20:18):
don't know if you noticed. One thing I notice about it, because I go and run GreenLake,
that's one of the things I do. It makes my skin kind of itchy if they've been spraying. Even if
I don't see it, I can tell there's something in the air. There's aluminum. There's some sort of
chemicals because my skin will start to itch quite a bit. And that wasn't happening prior.
And that here in Seattle, as you know, we've got a homegrown psychopath, Bill Gates, and he's
(20:42):
one of the big proponents of we got to dim the sun because of global warming. And it's like,
come again? You know, I mean, he's on record. People say that's a conspiracy. I'm like,
he talks about it quite a bit for it being a quote unquote conspiracy theory. And he's got a
lot of money. And when I look at the, I'm surprised to hear that it's down there in Argentina so much,
(21:04):
actually, because I saw a graph once and it looked like it was heavy west of the Rockies,
but maybe that was just that month. Maybe they rotate around and it can be really difficult to
see who the hell is doing this and where did they get the okay to do this? That's what I'm not
seeing is where's the debate? Where's the, how are they just flying and dumping shit in the air?
(21:26):
And there's no accountability at all. It's just kind of like, no, we're doing this. Air is our jurisdiction and we can we can do whatever we want. It's a little it's a little weird to me. Right. It's a little it's surreal, you know.
um but to your point earlier that's the to me that's the litmus test because it definitely puts
me in victim a slight victim mentality fuck these guys these psychopaths you know uh and i don't feel
(21:53):
empowered i don't feel like we yet have a solution so it makes it does not make me feel uplifted i'm
still looking for a solution and trying to count on others that i may or may not be able to count
on to help me with it, like RFK Jr., right?
So let's tie that up.
But I had earmarked that you had written that the four things that will save humanity, here
(22:13):
we go, are Bitcoin, Noster, Steak, and Sunshine.
Man, oh man, I could put that up on my wall.
And before we get into the carnivore thing, which I want to talk to you about, because
I want to learn something about it, because I'm not completely into that world, and I've
seen your before and after pictures, but let's just touch on why you love Bitcoin and why you
(22:34):
love Noster, because I feel like people are hearing about Bitcoin and some are like, maybe
they got to hear it a few times. I think they're starting to see the value because it's on the
news. It's on ad money. I mean, people are talking about it. There's memes and it's all over the
internet. But Noster, I think people are still like, what is that? People still don't know what
(22:55):
it is So I guess I wanted to give you a chance to talk about both of them and why that helping you to feel optimistic And then we get into the stake conversation Yeah I mean part of the excitement of all four of these things Bitcoin Nostra stake and sunshine that I sort of chosen as my four pillars
We're very new to all of them in the sense of people really understanding them or knowing about them.
(23:18):
And so, yeah, I think we're very early to Bitcoin.
We're really, really, really early to Nostra.
Like if you talk to 100 people on the street, none of them are – zero out of 100 are going to know about Noster.
Maybe one if you're in a very sovereign place that values freedom.
But yeah, I mean these are the solutions that we need.
(23:41):
And what was your original question once more?
Oh, just like how do you see that – how do you see the Bitcoin Noster thing playing out for humanity?
Perfect.
I think I've maintained this over time that part of humanities, we're kind of charged with building.
If we don't like the centralized, corrupt, globalist systems, we need to build stuff that's decentralized to counter that, right?
(24:06):
And that includes in medicine.
That includes in all the things.
And Nostra is really the first thing I've seen that isn't centrally controlled.
Certainly X is Twitter, Facebook, and all that.
So this gives us a chance to build something where I can put something out and all my followers actually see it.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah.
Yeah, and I think that a really great way to frame this for people, you mentioned my blog post I wrote about how these are the four things that will save humanity.
(24:36):
Yeah.
I think a good way to frame this is we can just stick with geoengineering.
Let's use that as an example of this thing that it's really hard to not feel hopeless when you look outside and you see you're being sprayed.
Like you said, it's hard to not feel like a victim.
What do you do?
There's nothing you can physically do.
So let's use that as a perfect example of something and apply these four things I've chosen.
(24:59):
And so Bitcoin, what does it do? It sucks out the value of the fiat system, which fiat is what fuels all these insane spending projects where everyone's seen the USAID stuff or just this absurd list of crazy things that they're just blowing money out of their ass.
There's absolutely no rhyme or reason. They're spending money like they feel like they have to just throw it somewhere.
(25:22):
So they're throwing it all over the place, billions and billions of dollars. Bitcoin ends that because it puts a cap on the money and it forces responsibility.
because there's no more money printer.
It gets rid of the money printer.
So I think that people, I'm sure have seen in the news
how there are these occasional phases of governments
or BlackRock or whatever buying Bitcoin.
(25:45):
And then all the newbies come out and say,
oh, they're buying Bitcoin, so it's bad now.
These are the bad guys are getting Bitcoin.
I don't want them to succeed.
But here's the thing,
is that it's the ultimate example of a Trojan horse
because you have to get Bitcoin
if you want to be part of the future.
And they are being forced into it.
They have to bend the knee to it eventually.
(26:06):
And once they're in, everyone is in,
then the money itself is capped.
So they're trapped into that system.
So it's a little bit difficult to explain.
I hope that's a decent explanation.
But will the bad guys get some Bitcoin?
Of course they will.
They will have to at some point.
It's an open protocol so everyone can get it.
That's part of an open protocol so everyone can do it.
But the difference is that once we are in that system and by them joining the system, it just speeds up their own death.
(26:34):
Because once you're in that system, you can't play the fiat games anymore, being able to print on infinite money or when in BlackRock's case, just tapping on the shoulder of the Fed or the Congress people and just getting unlimited money for everything from the taxpayers.
They can't do that anymore, Bitcoin, because they don't have a money printer anymore.
So that's sort of a long-winded way of saying that Bitcoin will organically eliminate the stupid spending.
(26:58):
It forces responsibility.
So you have to actually act smartly with your money.
You're giving up real money.
Like right now, I'm sure you've seen that infographic, the four quadrants of how much someone will care about spending money.
It's your money spending it for yourself or your money spending for someone else, someone spending money for you.
(27:20):
Do you know what I mean?
Have you ever seen that before?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guy Swan did a really good video basically breaking that down of essentially saying that the government is spending other people's money that's not theirs, and they pay no consequence for doing badly with it because they have a money printer they can just ask for.
So that is the absolute worst combination of incentives.
They're never going to spend it well.
(27:41):
It's always going to be nonsense.
It's going to attract people that spend money on crap.
And so Bitcoin just blows that up, and it forces responsibility.
I've sort of gone in circles a couple times.
Oh, that's great.
I hope that sort of hits the point at home.
I went Bitcoin first because I think that's the biggest one because it costs money to run all these programs, to fill up these planes with all those chemicals and fly them all over the fucking world.
(28:06):
It's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
So that has to be a huge expense.
No one knows how much exactly it is.
we see some occasional headlines about like, you know, Bill Gates invests a couple hundred
million and, you know, blocking out the sun and, you know, the UK government, you know,
signed some deal.
They're going to use this many millions of taxpayers and they're just getting absolutely
hammered.
(28:26):
I don't think anywhere on earth is getting hammered harder than the UK right now when
you look at the pictures.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'm just attracted to the culture around Bitcoin because I don't need, it's not like
I need nothing but optimists around me.
But I also I don't want a whole bunch of doomers telling me we can't win this or humanity's fucked or good luck trying to create a new money or whatever.
(28:49):
I like what I'm seeing out of the Bitcoin developers and what's going on in the Nostra stuff.
I think we're only seeing like to your point earlier, we're really in the first or second inning.
and I could see I think if you and I had this conversation 10 years from now we would be like
holy shit we did not see all the development that was going to happen in these areas like we always
(29:14):
we were talking about stakes and sunshine and Noster and this stuff wasn't even thought of yet
and here we are and I think it sets the foundation for a pro-humanity you know pro-earth you know
there's a lot of like great principles that can be anchored in it.
And it is starting.
(29:34):
And one of the things that's happening is they're just shining the shining
light of truth into the dark corners of what is going on.
And there is some dark, dark corners.
I want to talk about that in a sec, but before we get to all that, you know,
you, I saw carnivore. I've been circling around carnivore.
I absolutely love grass fed steak, especially high grade.
(29:57):
I'm like, oh, hell yeah.
I, my body just loves meat.
And I remember when I was younger, I had a vegetarian girlfriend.
So of course I was vegetarian for like a year to try to impress her, but I look like shit.
We all had one of those.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yoga girl who was like, you're not going to eat meat.
Are you?
I'm not going to sleep with you.
If you're going to eat meat, I'm like done.
(30:18):
I don't need meat, man.
So, but I look like shit according to all my friends and I didn't feel good.
I was kind of green.
And then when we broke up, as soon as I started eating steak again, everything got better.
Like I could just feel like my testosterone, like, oh, God, this is so good.
And I saw your before and after pictures.
(30:39):
You have a before carnivore diet and after.
And I'm like, holy shit.
I mean, you looked fine in the before picture, but come on.
You look transformed in the after picture, like so much better.
and I'm kind of a foot in both worlds.
So I wanted to get your take on it
because it's a little scary
(30:59):
to think of me eating nothing but carnivore.
That seems too extreme.
We've kind of been taught like vegetables are good for you
and all this stuff,
but I think we've been kind of duped a little bit.
I think they've said red meat's really bad for you
and people have internalized that belief.
So even if we set that aside and go,
hey, I love red meat, I love meat,
(31:20):
it's another step to say vegetables are they are they still good for you or are those not good for
you because i know a lot of nutritionists are saying no don't throw out vegetables right and so
i think carnivore diet may be kind of one of those extreme uh i don't want to say only extreme people
do it but it's an experiment and what did you find and as you were down the rabbit hole what
(31:44):
did you discover specifically about vegetables because i eat a lot of vegetables along with my
stake. So I just wanted to get your take on that and how you navigated that. Did you go down the
rabbit hole and then go, I'm just doing carnivore as an experiment? How did that all unfold for you,
Ben? Yeah. So that was my second rabbit hole, I would say after Bitcoin. And I would say for
(32:04):
anyone who wants to go along that ride with me, this is why it's so cool to have a podcast,
because I can go back and actually listen to the episodes. I started my podcast episode one with
Peruvian bull our mutual friend in August of 2023 and literally in September I decided to start the
carnivore diet as an experiment to see what happens so like right as I start the podcast it was going
(32:25):
to be only about Bitcoin and all of a sudden I'm like going down this other new rabbit hole so
like the the first 10-15 episodes of the podcast are all about Bitcoin and then it takes a turn
into a bunch of carnivore stuff and I have a bunch of people on so anyone who wants to really go down
a full rabbit hole um i would just go listen to my podcast which is just my name the ben worman
podcast and just find the as soon as that you start seeing meat in the title yeah um but yeah
(32:51):
so i want to give credit to the guy who completely pulled me down this one pretty single-handedly
well first of all the one who got on my radar in the first place was safe adina moose
the big point standard author he is just consistently is he is he yeah 100 oh yeah
I saw him clashing with people on Twitter with the fruit and honey people.
(33:17):
Oh, you need fruit too? Honey is good for you.
And he's like, no, that's bullshit. Just eat steak.
No sugar is good for you.
And so I was like, that's weird.
Because at that point, like in 2023, I was sort of on the meat, fruit and honey vibe personally.
Because there's a huge wave of health influencers that are really gathering on that right now.
And so that was where I was.
(33:39):
and I started hearing safedines talk about it.
That's kind of interesting.
But the guy I was going to mention earlier,
the one who really was my rabbit hole guy down this one,
who is like, to me, the safedine of the carnivore world,
the same sort of character.
His name is Dr. Anthony Chafee.
And if you go to my podcast and listen to my episode with him
(33:59):
and just listen to that,
that's probably my favorite episode I've ever done.
I still go back and listen to it
because this guy has just the most insane brain.
and I've ever listened to.
He just like, when he opens his mouth,
he just unloads a straight 30 minutes of constant signal.
It's like, how can I disagree with this guy?
And he, he has this presentation he made on his YouTube channel
(34:23):
called plants are trying to kill you.
And essentially this presentation that he makes and all of his videos and his his his podcast called the plant free MD which I highly recommend um essentially go through that logical journey of understanding
Vegetables were never good for us.
Fruit was never good for us.
(34:45):
No plants were ever good for human beings.
We are carnivores.
We actually are carnivores.
And that's his main thing he preaches.
And I can give you the gist of why for on the vegetable side and the fruit
side, just sort of an overview.
yeah for me vegetables it was easier to understand that those were not good the fruit and honey
people pretty much agree with that and that's where i was at that point where you're kind of
(35:05):
realizing okay um these are this is the body of the plant like the leaves for example they don't
want to be eaten in nature so they fill those leaves with poison to not get eaten they're
stationary things so their only way to survive since they can't run around or fight back is to
fill themselves with poison. And so that's why in nature, when you see these crazy plants
(35:27):
everywhere, even the vegans know you're not supposed to go in the forest and just eat
trees and leaves, or you're going to end up very sick or sometimes die. But then they'll go to the
grocery store and they'll see like a little plastic bag full of spinach that's 99% the same
thing and think, oh, this is healthy. And so the question is, why do we think it's healthy in the
(35:47):
first place. And it really just goes back to farming. The agricultural revolution was where,
you know, we had these farmers start to sell this stuff and it started to really shift the paradigm,
like as soon as food became more like a commodity of being sold. But yeah, just, I love keeping sort
of the nature base though. So vegetables, it's the part of the plant that, you know, wants to stay
(36:11):
alive to be able to reproduce. It doesn't want you to eat it. It's going to poison you. So there's
no reason to eat it, period. It's full of plant toxins. Moving on to fruit. That one was harder
for me to understand because- Nature wants you to eat fruit, it seems like, right?
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is what the fruit and honey people still say,
is that, oh, it's super bright colored and beautiful. It tastes good. Don't you trust
your taste buds? Here's the problem. Start with the nature perspective like I did for the other.
(36:38):
Plants want to survive and reproduce, okay? Same premise we started with before. They create these
fruit to get other animals to eat them and spread their seeds around. The tree does not exist to
create healthy humans. They don't care about you. They want to reproduce. So they fill these things
with some sugar to make it taste good so they can get things, other things to eat them and spread
(37:00):
the seeds around. They're kind of tricking you into doing it, you know? And so certain animals
are very specially designed to have that stuff, like birds and berries, for example. Their digestive
systems are very basic, which it makes it really good for those types of plants.
Now, when you look at, here's another aspect of it to understand is, and let me know if
(37:23):
you wanted to stop and ask any questions.
I'm just throwing all kinds of stuff at you here.
I'll throw one more point out is that when you look up any fruit or vegetable on Google
and type in like 500 years ago and see what it looks like, every single thing that you
get at the grocery store today or even the most organic farmer's market ever a watermelon for
(37:45):
example like you look at now it's this giant foot long juicy beast of a thing 500 years ago let alone
5 000 years ago it was this tiny little mostly green like root and you can repeat that for any
of these things like tomatoes used to be like the super toxic little berry um name any fruit any
(38:09):
vegetable out there, it's been heavily bioengineered by farmers, like I mentioned earlier, who are
trying to sell more of them. So when they have their farm and they make a bunch of these fruits
or vegetables, they will only keep the biggest, juiciest, sugariest one to reproduce the next
season. So over thousands of years, you have a massive changing of these plants. And they are
(38:31):
now completely man-made. And like I said, even if you're getting the most organic kind, we're not
even talking about the glyphosate and herbicides that's a whole nother you know ball game yeah it
makes everything way worse which is 90 of what people are eating or more from the grocery store
probably like 99 honestly um but even considering that if you get the absolute best kind these are
still bioengineered seeds that men have made to be super sugary and sweet so every single fruit
(38:56):
you see now just a sugar bomb and uh so that that's a bit of a rant did i answer your question
You did.
I didn't even get into why meat is good, but that's why plants are, in fact, not healthy.
They never were.
They are just fiber and sugar.
Fiber is literally bad for you.
It's not good for you.
It's just bulk.
It makes you shit more, and it gives you digestive problems.
(39:18):
I don't know if you dug into my blog that much, but I just wrote a post about digestive problems.
If you're having digestive problems, stop eating plants because they are literally pure fiber that can't be digested.
There are people out there on YouTube now in the carnivore community now who there's this one guy named Kent Carnivore who had Crohn's disease for many years, a really bad gut problem.
(39:41):
Yeah.
To the point where he had to get his colon removed and have a colostomy bag put in.
And so he thought, okay, this is interesting.
Well, I mean, first of all, this sucks, but we can now do some interesting experiments here and see what happened.
So he would eat different things and see what came out in the bag.
and he would eat a bunch of meat,
(40:01):
like just a bunch of steak or ground beef or chicken or eggs or whatever,
and nothing would come out in the bag or a tiny bit of liquid,
basically nothing.
And then he would eat like pineapple or broccoli or salad
or any of these plants that people eat.
They would come out untouched in the bag, Tony.
Oh, my God.
(40:21):
Like he literally said,
they would sometimes still have bite marks in them, literally.
So human gut pH is extremely critical for understanding what an animal is supposed to eat.
So sheep and cows have extremely high pH.
It's like six or seven on the one to seven scale.
I think it was seven, pretty sure.
(40:43):
It's very high, very basic, which is basically made for fermenting plants.
A lion, which is like the most stereotypical carnivore you could think of, super low.
It's like two.
It's really acidic.
is made for only eating meat.
You want to guess what a human is?
Whoa.
1.5.
Oh my God.
We are more carnivorous than lions are.
(41:05):
We have the same gut makeup almost as a vulture,
which literally just roamed around eating rotting meat all the time.
That's what we're supposed to eat.
And this is why people like him who do this test
and actually see what's happening in their gut,
when they eat these plants, it's not digesting any of it.
We don't have the ability to digest this stuff.
(41:25):
And this is why so many people have constipation, gut problems, indigestion, bloating.
Oh my gosh, everyone in the world is bloated right now.
Everywhere I go and travel, you can just see everyone just has this big bloated belly.
And it's just become so normalized.
And what I want to tell them is, bro, just stop eating plants.
If you just go carnivore, carnivore will fix that.
(41:48):
That's literally fermentation in your belly what's happening.
You're making me want to do an experiment like you did.
But do you – so you don't eat any plants or fruit.
Are you all carnivore at this point, all meat products?
Because that's like – I'm like, holy cow, that is a drastic change in what I do.
I'm thinking like, oh, maybe I could get more meat and less veg.
(42:12):
But you're saying, no, just go cold turkey, right?
I haven't had any vegetables or fruit now for almost two years.
Holy cow.
Um, but you look great.
Barring a few very rare exceptions.
I do love experiments all the time.
So every once in a while, there are some people that are like, oh, you have to be a hundred
percent all the time for me.
Every once in a while, I'll just throw something in just to see what happens.
(42:33):
Yeah.
Um, and it's, it, I keep a journal, keep track of things.
And it's always very interesting because after you've done strict carnivore for one to three
months, and then you eat something that seems so benign that you used to just have all the
time.
When I was in Mexico, the hostel I was staying at over there, this was last year sometime, I did just that.
(42:53):
I had three months of perfection.
I was having steak, salt, and water, nothing else.
Not even butter or eggs.
That's the lion diet, which is the most peak version where you don't even have any dairy or eggs.
Literally just ruminant red meat, salt, and water.
That's it.
I did that for three months, and it was amazing, by the way.
We can talk about how your taste buds change and you no longer crave those things after a while.
(43:17):
And you actually do love it every day.
I know it sounds crazy to people like, how do you not get bored of this?
Your craving shift to the point where as I'm sitting here right now at 6.50 p.m., I haven't eaten since yesterday.
I only eat one big meal of just a bowl of ground beef per day right now.
I've been doing that for weeks.
I can't wait to go eat my ground beef.
(43:38):
I'm craving it right now.
After we're done, I'm probably going to go eat it.
I don't crave anything else anymore.
like I used to. What's interesting, Ben, is I am a, I've been sober from alcohol, uh, for 12 years.
And so I haven't drank in 12 years, but what replaced it, and this runs in my family is a
massive sweet tooth. So I, I have cravings of sugar, uh, desserts, certainly fruits and honey
(44:06):
and all that. I gobble that stuff up and it's kind of driven me in a certain way. So just talking to
you, I'm like, how amazing would that be to really take that on and say, that's just an extension of
your addiction. You were getting lots of sugar with alcohol. That was terrible for you, but the
(44:26):
sugar is not real good for you either. And you're finding sneaky ways to get it and pretending that
they're healthy. It's blueberries. It's honey. It's blah, blah, blah. But I always carry this sneaky
suspicion that I'm dancing around maybe the core addiction and there's maybe a better way to eat
and I've just not put my finger quite on it. Does that make sense? You just absolutely nailed it.
That's exactly what's happening. And that's extremely common too, is that when people give
(44:50):
up one addiction, they kind of fall back onto a new one and carbs and sugar are so commonly that
thing. And here's one of the mind blowing things that I learned while going down that rabbit hole
as well is the fructose molecule.
So when you drink alcohol, it's just straight sugar in your body.
(45:10):
It's straight sugar.
And fruit just breaks down to sugar as well.
Like when you look at the actual molecules they break down to,
it's all the same fructose.
And so you really start thinking about these things in molecules
because all your body sees as molecules.
With our eyeballs, we see a watermelon and a celery stick
(45:31):
and a shot of vodka, and we see very different things.
But every single carbohydrate,
and all those things are plant-based, by the way.
They all come from plants.
Every single plant-based carbohydrate, which is all of them,
they all turn into sugar in your body.
It's a mixture of glucose and fructose.
So that's why your body,
since you stopped drinking the fructose from alcohol,
(45:51):
it still wants that fructose.
So you're just getting it from fruit now.
And it's still going straight to your liver.
This is the thing that people don't get,
is that this is why so many vegans and frugivores
eating tons of fruit.
They not only eat fruit,
only do their teeth rot out of their skull, but they get really bad liver problems because all
this fruit is just going straight to detoxing through the liver. So you're still beating up
(46:11):
your liver by eating fruit. People don't know this. And yeah, I highly recommend trying this
now that, you know, you're talking about this because I think this will be a very enlightening
thing for you. And just like any addiction is tough to get over it. You know, those,
those first two weeks. So I'm not going to lie. There's some fear that's coming up,
even having this conversation with you.
(46:34):
Yeah.
So I'm looking at you on the other side of the river going,
how do I get over there without crossing this river?
It's challenging, but I mean,
this is a base camp for men mentality.
Am I right?
We challenge ourselves.
We do these things.
Exactly.
It's on recording now.
You can't get, you can't walk back it now.
I know.
Well, and the proof is how you look.
(46:55):
I mean, you look like you're an epitome of hell, dude.
You look fantastic.
especially when I see the pictures of before your your transformation so I want some of that and I'm
I could be so much better though like I my weakness now is like I I don't exercise nearly
enough like oh yeah I'm so busy like I'm just constantly grinding out podcasts and blog posts
and working and I know that's a total excuse um but you know the the times where I really settle in
(47:21):
and get to go to the gym for a while I feel great and you know the the here's a crazy fact something
I noticed that you might notice this too. How old are you? If you don't mind me asking, I'm 58.
58. I've heard so many people that were like 50, 60, 70s do this and have a similar experience to
what I'm about to tell you. Um, when I was just a few months into this thing and in the carnivore
(47:43):
dad I remember the exact day I was sitting and working on my laptop Like I usually do in this hostel And I could just feel my arms were like more muscular
And I hadn't been exercising.
I hadn't been lifting weights.
Literally just when you eat a ton of protein, it just starts to fill out your body.
(48:04):
And there are people out there seeing abs and having muscles for the first time just by going on a carnivore diet and not even exercising.
which is a crazy crazy thing for people because you think about how could that be i thought you
needed to lift everything as a build muscle but think about uh that example i used earlier lions
at the zoo they're not exercising no other muscular animals like lifting weights in the gym but they
(48:27):
just have muscle yeah and it's because they eat their correct diet they're eating shit loads of
meat and that protein is just going into your muscles and filling it out and so for me i was
noticing that this is crazy. I look better. My muscles are bigger without even exercising.
And once you actually start exercising, you keep it much more and it becomes much quicker to
actually build that muscle for all the men out there. That should be all of them who care about
(48:49):
muscle. This is like a multiplier on your gains. And Dr. Anthony Chafee, the guy I mentioned earlier
is great for that. He's really into athletics. He used to play pro level rugby in Seattle and
he's from Seattle too, by the way, another Seattle guy. We've got a bunch of legends in the house,
But he has a bunch of people on his podcast who are bodybuilders, pro athletes, and they're just saying this isn't fair that I'm on this diet because I'm literally just crushing everybody all the time.
(49:16):
They're constantly having to, you know, suck down these like sugar gel packs and they're running or exercising and, you know, carb loading before their meals and crashing out.
When you're on a carb war diet, you're just in superhuman mode.
That's awesome, dude.
Zero carbs, zero sugar.
You just on a whole different level And I didn understand that until I did it myself and I excited for you to do it and to hear back Yeah absolutely I in I going to go listen to your podcast
(49:40):
I'm going to give you a chance to just tell people where they can find you.
But I just wanted to thank you.
We're running out of time a bit.
We didn't quite touch on everything.
I wanted to talk about rabbit holes when they get dark.
But I want to save that for part two.
You'll come back again and talk to us, right?
Absolutely.
There's no way we're not doing more.
We barely scratched the surface.
Yeah, yeah. And there's also you gave me a documentary. I want to I want to read. I want to go check out that documentary. That's going to open up a whole bunch of other things for us. But where can people find you and your work and your podcast? Yeah. How can people connect and what you got going on right now?
(50:13):
Yeah, people can go to my website, benworman.com. My last name is W-E-H-R-M-A-N. I have the Ben Wormin podcast. I have my blog there where I write about all this stuff. And yeah, just in Nostra, like I know you talk about Nostra. We didn't really get to go into that a lot yet. I'm sure we'll do that in the future, but super bullish on Nostra. It's freeing speech for everyone. There's no one in charge of it. You can zap each other Bitcoin. It's a huge, powerful tool.
(50:41):
I put it basically on the same level as Bitcoin in importance, which I never thought I'd say.
Huge, powerful tool.
I'm on there as well.
Just same name, Ben Worman.
And still struggling on Twitter, but mostly using it as a place to send people over to Nostra.
Yeah, that's good.
That's a good use for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's pretty much it.
(51:02):
Just website, blog, podcast, socials.
I'll be all over the place.
Did you see Jack Dorsey got suspended?
Yes.
I thought that.
I reached out to him on Noster.
I said hey Jack I said sorry to hear that Join the club or something like that I thought it was hilarious man For listeners who may not know the literal creator of Twitter just he being suspended on Twitter now
(51:26):
for posting the bad things.
And so he posted this on Nostra,
a screenshot of his suspension.
And it just, I mean, everyone just loved it.
Like this is such a great example
of like why Nostra exists.
Even he knows this, you know,
the creator of the centralized platform
is like completely all in Nostra
and you can't be more bullsh on it.
Yeah, beautiful.
Well, thanks, Ben, for coming on and sharing your insight and your wisdom.
(51:47):
Love chatting with you.
Feel like we could sit around the campfire and talk all night and really look forward to further chats with you, buddy.
Looking forward to it.
We absolutely will do more in the future.
Keep in touch.
Okay.
Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
I absolutely love it when I'm learning new things and new perspectives from a guest in real time.
(52:08):
And I will be experimenting with this carnivore diet, Ben.
It's super confronting for me.
I just need to figure out when and what that looks like.
I might need to get some buy-in from my wife to really make this a doable experiment,
and I will keep you posted on all of it.
Thank you, Base Campers, and we'll see you around the fire next week.
If you find value in our show and wish to show us some love,
(52:29):
we are now making that very easy to do.
You simply go to www.basecampformin.com and click on Donate Support Base Camp.
You'll find an easy way to make either monthly donations for as little as $5 a month,
or you can donate just once.
We love the monthly donation
and hope to build this up over the coming months,
but any show of support is greatly appreciated, honestly.
(52:50):
Thank you for your support
and for helping to keep Basecamp
as a resource on your hero's journey.
That's our show for today.
Thank you for listening.
Men, good luck in all your endeavors
and good luck on your hero's journey.
This is Tony Rezac
and you're listening to Basecamp for Men.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.