November 25, 2020 • 39 mins
What shape does fear take? Can we look into its eyes? In tonight’s episode, we’ll explore one manifestation of terror that has become an urban legend for our times.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Jenna Sullivan and I'm Jen Lee.
And we'd like to welcome you tobeneath your bed, a podcast
where we drag out all thosefears that lurk beneath our beds
from the paranormal to truecrime, to the simply strange
along the way, we'll be drinkingcocktails and sharing stories
from our Appalachianupbringings.
What shape does fear take?
Can we look into its eyes intonight's episode, we'll explore
(00:22):
one manifestation of terror thathas become an urban legend for
our times.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jen, how are you?
Hey, Jen, it's it's going allright.
Um,
Speaker 1 (00:39):
With the exception of RBG passing away, I mean, that's
just a real, real hit.
I really is.
I think, I think that hiteverybody really hard when the
news came in last Friday nightand she's the first woman to lay
in the rotunda.
I did not know that.
Yeah, she's the first woman todo that.
And I was also reading too, thatshe died on the Eve of Rosh
(01:03):
Hashana.
And there's some significance tothat because they say that those
who die on the evil Rashana isbecause God was saving them to
the very last because they wereneeded.
Oh my goodness.
That's thought it's just reallystriking.
Really kind of gives me shivers.
When I think about it, he tellsme too, she was just an amazing
woman.
I mean, I think even herpersonal life was amazing.
(01:23):
Like she had this marriage andyou know, her love of opera and
just the incredible work she didagainst all odds and so humble.
And she worked really hard tokeep things collegial on the
Supreme court did.
So tonight I made a little drinkand I'm going to call it the
RBG.
Oh.
And as you know, last weekend Imade some strawberry simple
(01:47):
syrup and I'm not sure if I toldyou I added peppercorns to it.
Who did not tell me that, thatsounds so vice to it with a RBG
I have, of course the strawberryblack peppercorn strawberry
syrup.
And I also added Champaign causeI'm going to try to go through
all of my champagne vodkarosewater.
(02:07):
And then also I added a basilleaf and it's really, really,
really good.
So I'm going to write down, willyou please write that down and
make one for me next time we canactually be together.
That sounds amazing.
100%.
I think that's a perfectcocktail for RBG because it's
sweet and it's elegant, but it'sspicy and a little, got a little
bit of a tough edge with thepepper, but multifaceted like,
(02:28):
like she was well, it's very,very good.
So I'll make you on the nexttime.
I see you.
I would love that.
Well, what I'm drinking is aFrench martini and I I've never
had one before, but I hadrecently bought a bottle of sham
board and I thought I need to dosomething with this.
It's just got vodka, quite a lotof vodka, actually sham, board
and pineapple juice.
(02:48):
And it's, it's wonderful.
It's really, I'm going to soundreally pretentious.
And I really don't mean to, butit's elegant.
Like it has this elegant taste.
It's sort of booze heavy with alittle bit of the fruit, but it
doesn't have that real boozy,like after taste.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I can't explain it.
It's it's got a kick, but it's,it's refined and restrained at
the same time until I told you Iwas going to sound super
pretentious.
So I was going to say, I wouldthink like the pineapple juice
could have drowned it out, butit doesn't sound like it did it.
Doesn't in fact, I think youwould really like this.
Cause I know you like fruitystuff, but sometimes it can get
a little too intense.
So I'm going to make this foryou too.
(03:21):
I think you would really likeit.
It's very subtle.
Well, next weekend when we seeeach other social distancing.
Yes.
Except I think we probablyshouldn't be making each other
drinks, but I guess not, but Iwish we could.
Well, I've been going throughthe Amazon buying spree for the
last three weeks I bought, Ibought a bunch of, I bought
like, I think three water Globesfor Christmas, who I was going
(03:43):
to get you one of those, youbought them.
I bought one with an angel and Ibought another with Cardinals.
And then I, I bought another, Ithink that has Santa Claus.
Oh my God bought another tablerunner and two Christmas trees
wait, like full size.
Well one's 15 inches.
It's a, they're both acrylic.
(04:05):
And it does like the waterglobe.
It kicks things off inside ofit.
Like the glitter.
Oh, that's cool.
Well, I've been on, I don'tthink it's quite as big of a
buying spree as you have, butI'll tell you my latest two
purchases.
One of them, I was telling myhusband about it today.
I'm like, um, so I bought, Ibought a nut dish.
It's like, you know, we boughtit all.
And then I bought this picture.
It's this girl.
(04:26):
And she's in this really likebeautiful poofy white dress.
It's really forties ish.
Well, I collect all thosevintage pictures, but they're
lesbian pictures.
Those are amazing.
I love, I love the pictures thatyou have.
Did you ever get that oneframed?
No, I haven't.
And I had, it was a gift to mefrom last Christmas.
So I do have to get a frame tothe woman that was restoring it.
(04:49):
Well, first off mind you, it's abunch of together dressed
basically as men.
For the most part.
I love it.
Is that the one I that's the oneI saw, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
I mean, it's quite clear what'sgoing on there what's what's
transpiring, but the woman whorestored it said that she
thought maybe it was politicalbecause they were c ause they
were all in uniforms.
(05:11):
I don't know where the she gotthat from, but I thought that
was ridiculous.
I ju st l ike, I really likeimages of women sh ow w hat that
says, but we can't be the onlytwo that are not buying
everything lik e Am azon andeBay.
There's no way when I'm reallyold though.
I'm just going to be like thisold lady with no money.
And I'm like all this bri ck, aB r a ck ar ound.
(05:33):
So with that, are you ready?
Shall we start?
Yes, I'm ready.
All ri ght.
So Jen, this is a story aboutwhat happens when evil cloaked
in in nocence asks to be invitedinto your life.
What do you think about that?
Yeah.
Sounds like a woman.
Well, tonight I'm going to tellyou about a phenomenon known as
(05:53):
the black eyed children orblack-eyed kids and they've come
to be referred to
Speaker 1 (05:58):
As just the bee Ks.
So if that's okay with you, Ithink that's how it referred to
them throughout my story.
That's that's good.
I tried to watch a few thingsabout them today.
So I have a little bit ofknowledge, but not much awesome.
I actually, I've only seen onetiny clip.
Most of what I've done is read,but, um, I'd be very curious to
see some shows about them.
So, I mean, honestly, I can'teven remember how I heard about
(06:21):
them or aware.
It was kind of recently, it justkind of something occurred to
me, like do the bee Ks for, forthe podcast.
And I'm trying to think, Imust've seen them mentioned
somewhere, but I, I honestlycan't remember where that was,
but I know this, I do know thatthis is a phenomenon that like
really gets under my skin.
I guess I scare easily.
I think people probably havegotten that by now, but this
(06:41):
like truly frightens me.
And I think of all the thingswe've talked about, or at least
the things I've talked about onthe podcast so far, this is the
one that most freaks me out.
So I went to, I went to a fewdifferent sources when I did an
internet search.
Um, so Snopes came up.
So I looked at Snopes andSnopes, of course they said
like, there's no evidence thatthis phenomenon actually exists.
However, it's kind of, part ofit's become part of urban
(07:04):
folklore.
And that's fine because for methe fact that it's so scary, it
doesn't have anything to do withwhether it's true or not, but
just, just imagining it reallyterrifies me.
So I also read about it in thisarticle called black-eyed kids,
the chilling legend that beganan Abilene, and this was from
Texas Hill country.com.
So according to those two sites,the first story or the first
(07:25):
sighting about black eyed kids,um, is from 1996.
And it was a guy named BrianBethel who apparently was a
journalist and he was living inAbilene, Texas.
So he, um, he processed hisexperiences and a lot of his
feelings about life, just as awriter, like by writing about
it.
And I guess he had an interestin the paranormal because he
posted about it on this ghostrelated.
(07:46):
What I suppose in the ninetieswould have been like a listserv,
um, because I know it was aclosed group.
You had to be a member of thegroup to read the posts, but
somehow he, he posted there andthen the story just really took
off.
I mean, it went what we wouldnow say viral.
He is the first, according tomost sources who had an
encounter.
So this happened to him in 1996.
I think he posted on the, on thelist around 1998, according to
(08:09):
him, it was nighttime and he hadto pay a bill.
And I don't know if the bill wasmaybe going to be late if he
didn't get it in, get it in bythe next day.
But he decided to take a checkand drop it off at the, um, at a
Dropbox or something.
So he's in the shopping centerand he's in his car.
Is this in the evening?
It is.
So it's nighttime.
Yeah, it's dark.
And he's in the shopping centerand he's in his car just riding
(08:32):
out the track cause he's like meand he never does anything in
preparation in advance.
He's always, you know, he wasjust doing it at the last minute
and he was going to drop it off.
So while he's writing, he hearsthis rapping.
It reminds me of something on apole, right.
This wrap, wrap, wrapping it,his card or his car window.
So he looks up and he sees twoboys and he estimated, they were
somewhere between 10 and 14years old.
(08:53):
He couldn't quite tell.
But what he did say was thatimmediately felt this immense
sense of uneasiness, but youknow, they're kids and they're
outside and it's late.
So I think it was around 10 30at night.
So he rolled his window down afew inches to ask what it was
they wanted.
And they told him that they hadplanned to go to a movie, but
that they'd forgotten theirmoney at home.
So they asked him to let theminto their car so that he could
(09:15):
drive them home to pick up themoney.
And he was like, well, you know,I'm not sure about that.
Like what are your kids going toa movie?
You know, at this hour, I'm justsort of imagining what the
conversation was like.
But apparently the kids saidsomething like, you know, don't,
don't be worried.
We're just two kids.
It's not gonna take long.
Just let us in, ask us inside,ask us inside your car.
And they made it clear that theycouldn't get into the car until
(09:36):
he gave them permission to doso.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Did he give them permission?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
He did not.
So I would say maybe halfwaythrough this encounter, towards
the end of the encounter, he sawtheir eyes and there, he noticed
that their eyes were completelyblack.
So it wasn't.
So we're going to just talkingbecause I have dark eyes, but
it's not like their eyes weredark.
It was, it was like the entire Iwas, was completely black.
So the sclera, which I didn'teven know the name, but
(10:00):
apparently the white part ofyour eyes called the sclera was
completely black.
So like looking at somebody whohas no pupils, no white part of
their eye, just just avoidbasically.
And he, he completely loses itat this point.
At this point, he talks abouthow his fight or flight response
just took over and in a panic,like he starts the car up and he
drives away as fast as he can.
And as he's driving away, he'skind of, I guess he had the
(10:21):
presence of mind to look in therear view mirror and they had
vanished.
He didn't see anybody oranything.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
There's something to me that's so frightening.
Anything to do with a knock or arapping like at the door,
especially at a window.
I just find that, I mean, agreewith that.
I mean, have you ever been onyour car and someone's knocked
on your window and how do youjump out of your skin?
I have
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That happened to me.
He actually, outside of aworkplace one time, um, I was
doing something in the car.
It was the end of the Workdaygetting ready to leave.
And a client actually, um, waswrapping up my window and I
looked up and I mean, I, Ijumped.
I was like, what in the world?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
About two to three years ago, we, you know, I have
really bad insomnia and I hadn'tslept for almost a day.
So on the way back from a workevent, and this is during broad
daylight, I am like, you know, Ineed to pull over.
I need to get some sleep, take alittle nap or, you know, I don't
want to get an accident and hurtsomebody.
So I pull over at this dairyqueen and try to kind of park in
(11:19):
a remote spot and I fall asleep.
Next thing I know, I wake up to,um, ambulance driver knocking or
a paramedic knocking on mywindow.
And I'm like, what?
And they're like, ma'am, are youokay?
Someone called us?
I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
I'm just taking a short nap.
And then about that time, apolice officer, police cruiser
pulls up behind my car, likeblocks me in, like I'm doing
(11:41):
something criminal.
And he comes over, he asked formy license, asked me if I was
doing okay.
And I said, you know, I was justreally tired.
I just pulled over to catch somesleep.
But I think that they thoughtthat I was on something and had
taken some drugs and had driftedoff to sleep.
And someone became concerned,but thought you were dead.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's a possibilitytoo, but I've jumped out of my
(12:03):
skin when they did that.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It happened to me when I used to go up to
Baltimore for grad school, likesome mornings and some
especially mornings, I wouldfeel like, you know, it would be
so easy to just close my eyesand just drift off.
So I know that feeling andthat's a really scary feeling.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah.
It was really scary in thebeginning.
And then it quickly moved on toembarrassment because it was
such a scene.
That's awful
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Cool.
How long did it take for them tolet you go?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I can say from the time the paramedic knocked on my
window to the police officer, Iwould say less than 10 minutes,
maybe, but long enough.
I mean, it probably felt likeforever.
Yeah.
And people were staring.
So
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I totally agree with you that I think knocking in is,
is in itself creepy.
I think at grill Poe definitelyknew that.
And other kind of scary things.
So if you imagine hearing aknocking and I think everybody
can imagine this, so you openthe door and there's nobody
there that's really creepy too.
Or like you said, somebodyknocking somewhere that they
really shouldn't be like, likeon a window.
I think.
So.
I think the story definitelyhits on some primal fears that
(13:03):
people have.
And there have been so manyaccounts of this since Brian
Bethel's.
Um, so if you go on, there'ssome subreddits on this and
there's a book I'm going to betalking about in a little bit,
when he tells all kinds ofstories, he's done a lot of
research and interviewed a lotof people who have experienced
this, or at least say thatthey've done.
So, but the stories all seem tofollow kind of a familiar
pattern.
So someone hears a knock ontheir door or their car window,
(13:26):
you know, there are these kidsand there's always a request to
be led in.
It's.
Some people describe it as afairly forceful request, but
it's always like, it's kind oflike polite, pseudo, polite with
like a threat underneath of it.
In his stories.
The person is almost alwaysovercome by a sense of dread or
in some cases, panic and terror.
Um, and usually the dread getsto the point that the person
they're kind of their, I guesstheir fight instinct clicks, it
(13:49):
snaps in and they slam the doorin the kids' faces or they drive
off if they're in a car as fastas possible.
So like 99.9, 9% of the stories,like I've never read a story
where the person actually let'slets the kids in.
You know, that was going to bemy next question.
Well, somebody said in one ofthe things I read, they're like,
I want to know about all thestories that haven't been told
(14:09):
because people who did let themin that's if you let your mind
go down that road, I think itgets really scary.
But the other part of the story,of course, and part of why
they're called what they are isthe black eyes.
And in a lot of the encounters,people don't really notice the
eyes at first because the kidstend to look down or to the side
and their eyes really aren't asvisible, but always at some
point, usually towards themiddle to the end of the
(14:31):
encounter, they see the eyes andthat's often for people like the
last straw it's at that pointlike, Oh, yeah, let me, let me
close the door really fast.
So there was another story Iwanted to share a couple of
stories and Brian's was one.
But the other one I wanted toshare was by the sky, he goes by
Jake.
I don't think that's his realname, but it was from something
called my black eyed kidencounter by Jake on this
(14:51):
website, hachette.com.
Hachette is a book publisher.
So I wasn't sure what this waslinked to, but it was just an
interesting story.
And it follows a lot of the samethemes.
Yeah.
The themes that I talked about.
So apparently Jake is a crazyguy because Jake put an ad in
Craigslist saying that he reallywanted to know if the black kid
phenomenon was real.
And so he was going to go hangout at a local park.
(15:12):
And he said exactly where he wasgoing to be like he was going to
be on a certain bench by acertain tree.
Um, and if any, any bee casewanted to meet up with him, they
could find them there.
He was going to be there.
Like, I don't know.
He picked like one day a week.
So he did.
And he said that he went for sixmonths and he said in that time
he met a lot of weird people.
There were a lot of weirdos, buthe did not meet any BBKs.
(15:32):
So after six months he hadn'thad enough.
He's like, whatever, this is, itwent as far as it was going to
go.
And he takes the ad down.
So the same week, but a littlebit later that he, that he took
the ad down, there's a knock athis door.
And he says that he immediatelyknew it was one of the black
eyed kids and that he went, andthese are his words.
He went ice cold and he wroteabout it.
(15:52):
He said, I was wrong about notbeing afraid of[inaudible].
The fear is on a different leveland instinctual primal level.
And that story really struck mefirst of all, because the guy is
crazy, you know, but I mean,he's crazy for like, to me, he's
crazy for seeking it out.
But I think the other thing thatwas so striking is how he
described that fear response andlike that knowing in so many of
(16:14):
these accounts, talk about fearlike that.
And they say like, unless it'shappened to you, you totally
wouldn't get it.
It was just like, like a knowingthere is something off here,
there's something not right.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
It reminds me too a little bit of similarity between
men and black in a way, becausethey kind of just arrive.
Usually it's after some UFOincident and they arrive in
throughout a place and peoplecan't really put their finger on
it and they ask kind of strangequestions, things that are kind
of out.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, it's so interesting that you say that
because this book I'm going totalk about, he actually talks.
I mean, he talks about all kindsof interesting things in this
book and I highly recommend it,but he does talk about the
similarities to the men andblack phenomenon.
And I think as I tell you aboutmore of these kids, I'm in a
little bit, I'm going to talkabout some of their
characteristics.
And I think it's going to remindyou even more of the men in
plaque.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Honestly, I didn't read anything about there being,
you know, anyone can making thecomparison
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Really cool that you picked up on that.
And I think you're right.
And I hadn't heard about the menin black.
Like I, I read that moth manprophecies book, God, like years
ago.
And I know, um, what's thatguy's name?
John keel.
John keel.
Right.
And he talks about the men inblack in there, but I couldn't
remember a lot.
So I had to refresh my memoryof, you know, what they did, but
I think with the men in black,there was also that sense of a
threat, right.
(17:29):
That they were kind ofintimidating you in some way.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
There was something nefarious about them.
And I think with the moth manprophesy with, with keel, I
think that's the first referencemade to minim black, but I could
be wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's very interesting.
I would like to, we should do apodcast on men in black.
So yeah, I had mentioned thatbook that I read and it was it's
called black-eyed children, butit's by this guy named David
Weatherly who looks like a realcharacter in his author photo,
but he looks like he'd be a lotof fun.
He's done all kinds of researchand writing on the paranormal
and he's a good writer.
So I really enjoyed this book.
(18:02):
It was extremely thorough.
He goes into all of thedescriptions.
He tells like a bunch of, youknow, he interviews a lot of
people.
So he recounts to their storiesin their own words.
But he also, in the secondsection of the book, he talks
about some of the theoriesbehind the black eyed kids.
Like why, what might they be?
Why are they here?
What do they want?
That kind of thing.
So, yeah.
And again, um, the stories Iprobably read, I don't know, 20,
(18:23):
25 different stories in thatbook and they're all while
they're different and you know,they're described differently in
different words, they're allreally similar.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the characteristics and I,
I think these are prettyinteresting.
So, so the kids, so the kidsappearance, what do they look
like?
Well, in most accounts, theytend to be boys once in a while,
somebody will mention a girlthat there might be a boy and a
(18:45):
girl together they're usuallydescribed as preteens to teens.
So like 10 years old up to like16, 17, something like that.
And people tend to notice howthey're dressed and say that
something just seems kind ofoff.
So their clothing has beendescribed as ratty old fashioned
ill-fitting baggy they're,they're always dressed in dark
(19:06):
colors.
Sometimes they wear hoodies, butthey're often mistaken for kids
who are homeless or maybe whohave run away.
And when it comes to their skintone, they're almost always
described as extremely pale.
Um, sometimes as an olive skintone, but usually pale in some
wouldn't witnesses have saidthat the skin appeared to have a
strange texture and it justsomehow did not look right.
(19:27):
I'm sure you've read theChristmas Carol or a Christmas.
Carol.
I love it.
Yeah.
That's probably one of myfavorite books, but I don't know
if you remember the part wherethe ghost of Christmas present
at the very end, he lifts up hisrobe and he shows Scrooge to
children.
Is it ignorance, ignorance, andwant, I think yes.
(19:48):
Ignorance and want, and justmade me think of that too.
That's interesting.
I had never thought about that.
That I like that a whole lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because they do, they look so,um, you know, apparently they're
very thin nobody's everdescribed chunky black-eyed kid
in, you know, they, they justlook very, I guess, kind of
unkempt and not really wellcared for, but the one thing
(20:09):
people don't usually noticeright away, interestingly
enough, are the eyes because thekids are usually looking down
and kind of looking down wherethey're talking to you.
Um, or they're kind of lookingoff to the side.
So I'm in some stories, the kidsare alone, but typically, and
they remind me of the Mormons.
They travel in pairs.
Sometimes they're more than two,although I don't think I've read
(20:30):
any stories that mentioned thatthere were more than four.
I think four was like thehighest number.
I mean, I'm not saying none ofthis is like carved in stone,
but from the research I've done.
So the kids are always, theyalways have a request to be led
inside and it's either a home orlike someplace like somebody's
place of employment or a car andpeople.
I know.
(20:50):
Where would you rather them comelike your car or your home?
That's a hard, I think I wouldrather always come to my home
and then my car, see, I feel, Ifeel the opposite because if
they're, if they're in my car orat my car, I mean, they're not
going to know where I live, butif they're at my house and they
like, they've cornered me, well,I feel that if I'm
Speaker 3 (21:08):
In my car, I'm most likely alone.
And if I'm at home, then I'm inthe comfort of my own home.
And then I also have my dogs,especially my bigger dog.
It makes me feel better
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For your wife out there.
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I don't think she's going to be able to manage, to
do much of anything, but I couldbe wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Oh, we try to make them a meal or something.
She, she would probably scoldthem.
She probably would actually.
That's super funny.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
My biggest fears too, is a lot of times on Reddit or
on YouTube, they'll read storiesfrom Reddit and a common theme
will be middle of nowherestories.
And oftentimes it'll involveyour car breaking down.
And to me that's so scary.
So maybe that's why.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
No, I didn't think of that.
I mean, I guess I was imagininglike, I'm going to the grocery
store or I'm at the CVS, likelate one night to pick up
something or you know, somethingthe dairy queen actually passed
out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The dairy feed actually I'd gothere for too often.
I must admit, but there's a,
Speaker 3 (22:11):
There's a song by I'm showing you my, my lesbian, uh,
roots, but there's a story.
There's a song by Amy Ray, theIndigo girls it's called dairy
queen.
And one of the lines is, um, Iwas drunk and mean down by the
dairy queen or you were drunkand mean
Speaker 1 (22:27):
What that song written about you.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
That's a good white trash along.
That could totally get me.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
My family, like they think, uh,going to the dairy queen is the
biggest treat.
So whenever, whenever I come tovisit, mom's like, you want to
go to the dairy queen in fact,next time, you know, when we can
actually see each other againand see people, if you come and
visit my family, my mom willmost certainly insist that she
takes you to the dairy queen.
So I'm going to have to getdrunk first or take, take some
(22:55):
meds and pass out the backseatcard.
Oh God.
So people have described their,like their speech patterns.
It's kind of weird.
And they requests have beendescribed as insistent,
sometimes overly polite.
But then at the same time, likestrangely forceful, you know,
like very persuasive or at leastthey're trying to be persuasive.
Some people have said theirspeech and its repetitive nature
(23:16):
has an almost hypnotic quality.
I just have to tell you what myhusband said.
I was telling him about theblack guide kids earlier.
And I'm like, you know, he'slike, well, does anybody ever
let them in?
I'm like, well, most of thestories they don't.
And he's like, well, I feel badfor these kids.
They're like real loops.
I'm like, well, I mean, here inBrian's the one who picked up
the,
Speaker 3 (23:36):
The angry homeless person and around for what, a
couple of hours or an hour.
And the guy kept getting moreand more aggressive as time went
on.
So we both picked up somebody.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Um, well I picked up somebody from the neighborhood,
but she was drunk off her and Ithought she would never get o ur
Doris.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
And Brian is also, yeah, I was just going, say, get
, and then you pick her up andlike she's screaming was
screaming and cursing in thecar.
And then she passed out at thebottom of the Hill.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yes.
And I had to like wake her upand get her into the, get her
out of my car.
I'm like,, no good deed goesunpunished.
But Brian picked up some crazyguy and like he took him
wherever he wanted to go.
I don't remember where that was,but the guy, several places, if
I remember correctly, it wasseveral places.
I had forgotten that.
Oh my God.
(24:23):
So yeah, he, he took him on allhis errands.
And so he, um, when he getshome, like the next day I go
into the car and there's likethe cigar with like a price tag
on it that says something like39, nine, the guy forgot his
cigar, which I have a feeling it was probably stolen.
So I still have, we have a cigarin our h ouse.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
He's going to have to spoke at this Christmas together
.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That would be funny.
I smoked a cigar once in afraternity house.
It was really nasty.
I mean, I didn't smoke the wholething.
I attempted to be like a real, Iwanted to be like one of the
boys and show how tough I was.
And I think I like choked.
Basically.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I smoke this huge cigar.
My parents said that I could doit.
Well, the story behind it is, um, showing my Appalachian roots
here, but we would go see mygrandmother and my family.
And on the way there you, whenyou enter Virginia, and then
when you're coming back home,there was a Stuckey East.
Do you remember?
Stuckey's no, it's not a carwash, is it?
(25:23):
No, no.
It's Stuckey's and I don't evenknow if they're in existence
anymore, but you would go thereand just get like, it's kind of
like a five and dime, but moreupscale.
Okay.
And so it's like a souvenir shopbasically.
So I got this huge cigar fromthere and I don't know like why
a child would be able to, Oh, Iwas young.
(25:44):
I was probably, I wasn't olderthan 10 cigar was probably as
big as my laptop.
So light that thing up.
Yeah.
They let me light it and it mademe so sick to my stomach.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Where did you smoke it in?
Inside the car?
No,
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I smoked it.
I spoke to it at home.
That is the gambit story thatyou've ever told me.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Tell me a lot of stories and I don't know if it
is the damnest, but it iscertainly, I'm just shocked.
Like, I mean, I'm justcompletely shocked.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm just a font of up Appalachia.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I am too.
I just, I think I, I so badlywhen I, now we're going into a
whole different thing, but wemight as well digress.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Um, when I was growing up in
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Appalachia, like I so badly wanted to not be from
there that like I tried to likebe my own life coach, which I'm
really ashamed of now.
Like, so that I wouldn't bedepartment's veneer of like fake
sophistication.
So, you know, occasionally Ithink I can be a little
pretentious and that's totallywhere that comes from.
Cause it's wanting to cover up.
What I saw is like, I don'tknow, like I just wanted to
(26:50):
reject it cause I thought I'dget stuck forever.
But yeah, God, I love that cigarstory.
Anyway, black back to the blackeyed kids.
So in most of the stories, theirmannerisms and speech are really
odd.
And I don't know if I've saidthis already, ironically, but
they tend to repeat themselveswithout a lot of variation.
So if you ask them a question,like if they say, please ma'am,
(27:11):
can I get into your car?
I need to go to the grocerystore and you say, well, are you
lost?
Like where are your parents?
Why do you need to go to thegrocery store?
They're not going to answer thequestion.
They're just going to say,please, ma'am, I'm just a kid
and I need to get in your carplease.
Won't you ask me in your car.
That's kind of how theconversation will go.
Um, so like they're reallyinsistent, like they'll knock
and knock and knock untilsomebody answers.
(27:32):
And when people have told them,when they finally get really
creeped out and closed the door,a lot of stories, people will
say that the knocking continuesfor quite a while after they
finally closed the door, whichis to me is just creepy as hell.
So they also say stuff like youwon't take long.
We won't be long trying to, andI don't really know what their
tone of voice is.
I'm imagining that it's probablynot the way I'm saying it.
Like it's much more robotic.
(27:54):
Some people have said theyalmost came across as robots
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And that's what the men in black too.
I think it was the same thing.
Some similarities there is thatthey sounded robotic or maybe
like their speech was stilted.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Exactly.
Almost like we might sound, ifwe're speaking foreign language,
like I'm trying to speak French,but um, my friend has coming out
like textbook French ratherthan, you know, the French who
would speak in day to day, thatkind of thing.
Or like they just learned aword.
People say that about these kidstoo.
Um, and sometimes they said youcould almost see them like
making a conscious effort tolike say a word, right.
Or to like recall a word likethey had memorized it or
(28:29):
something.
So that's another reallyinteresting link between the
black ID kids and the men inblack.
It makes you wonder if this islike an urban legend.
That's kind of a spinoff of menand black, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
No, I think it's interesting too, that there's
that aspect to it again, of youallowing them in giving some
something permission as, forexample, with, um, possession.
They say that if you do certainthings that you're opening up
yourself to that.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
I hadn't thought about that.
But the one that I really didthink about that, you know,
where you have to ask permissionto enter as vampires, because
according to him, like you, youknow, the vampire can't come
over the threshold unless youinvite him or her.
And so yeah,
Speaker 3 (29:07):
It's like a theme.
I don't know if it's just a wayto blame, you know, blame
somebody or especially womenknow.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
But yeah, there is that similarity similarity too.
I definitely got something Iwant to think about more because
I just think it's a reallyinteresting detail.
Um, so a lot of people also seesaid that they seem kind of
emotionless.
Like they're just kind of goingthrough the motions and yet
they're strangely persuasive.
So some people said that theyfelt a lot of people say they
felt almost like they were beinghypnotized, that there was a
part of them that was thinkinglike their minds were kind of
(29:35):
separated into two parts.
One part was like, you know,these, these are just kids.
Like let them in, like, they'refine.
Um, and there's this other partthat's kind of holding back and
going like, wait, like there'ssomething really off here.
And usually it seems like it'sthat part that wins out.
But most of the, in most of thestories, the kids seem to appear
out of nowhere and they seem tovanish without a trace.
Once the person refuses to letthem in.
I think if a kid I would let akid into my car, if they came
(29:58):
running up to it, screaming andbanging on the door, I'd let
them in.
But it's kind of casual, youknow, knocking and asking to be
let in.
First of all, it's like whonowadays is going to let a child
into the car unless it's anabsolute emergency nowadays
you'd think like, well, whatcould the kids say about you if
you let them in, right?
Like, I'd be afraid that a kidin and like, they're going to be
like, Oh, like I was molested orGod forbid you take them
(30:20):
somewhere and you get in a wreckand then you, somebody whose kid
has been hurt.
A story that I listened to, uh,today, briefly had talked about
this man who had gone campingnear the beach.
And these kids showed up at histent asking to be let in.
And I'm thinking what, whatperson in the right mind would
let them in to a tent out in themiddle of nowhere, not me, but
(30:42):
just so, I mean, I feel likeeverybody who listens to this
podcast, like do not let thesekids know me though.
I hate kids anyway.
So I'm definitely not living ina Bratton in my car.
We call nine one one first.
Yeah.
That's part of my hard crustyexterior, but so they're
definitely not getting in mycar.
Now, if it's a kitten, youbetter believe I'm going to
stop.
The wheels will be screeching,definitely going to let them in
(31:05):
a couple of days ago, I sent youthat picture a relative of mine,
of course, in the Appalachians,saw this kitten out in the
middle of the road, picked it upand it was a Bobcat that was so
unbelievable.
Oh my God.
A little bit, except for thepicture you sent me.
But anyway, I digress.
Yeah.
I could go on and tell you aboutmy baby bunny story, but I mean,
it doesn't sound like a goodone.
(31:26):
So please don't tell me, keepgoing.
Let's just say I've learned tonot interfere with nature.
So going on about the black kids.
So, um, witnesses describedfeeling that their requests
though, seemingly polite on thesurface that there there's some
health threatening.
Also the kids are, they'reextremely persistent.
And one story I read the personwas so freaked out and then they
(31:47):
back away from the door.
They make sure it's locked.
And then they look to the side,I guess there was a window and
the kid had their face pressedup against the window.
Just like with the black eyes,just boring into them.
Can you imagine I would screamso loud and McCall everybody I
knew to come over and I wouldtell you probably call me and
I'd be like, Oh no, I would comeyou're my bestie.
(32:08):
So I would come, the knocks arealso described as, as really
insistent, um, with like littlevariation, like they're not
doing a shave and a haircutthey're doing like, not knock.
And, uh, so it was just likevery, I don't even know the
word, like very rote orsomething.
Um, and this is interesting.
So in some accounts, certainlynot every story, but some of
them, they say that either whilethey're talking with the kids or
(32:31):
in other stories, it's likeafter they've left, people are
overwhelmed by this really foulsmell and people have described
it as rotten eggs.
They said it, one person said itsmelled like dirty diapers or
rotting trash, or like a rottinganimal carcass.
And I thought that wasinteresting
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Or the flatwoods monster.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Right.
Cause he was supposed to besmelly too.
Wasn't he smelled of sulfursoftware and you know, software
of course is related to thedevil associate that.
So is it like from hell, is thatwhy it's smelling like this?
Or are these just like somenasty kids who haven't had a
bath in awhile?
I mean, but I thought that wasreally interesting.
People who've described thesmell, said it was like over, it
would overcome you.
(33:08):
So I was just trying to thinkabout this.
I mean, trying to imagine whatit would be like to look into
somebody's eyes that werecompletely black, because
obviously I have no experiencewith that.
Um, and I'm just thinking about,okay, so what is it the eyes do
for us?
So I think our eyes are part ofour communication.
If I'm talking to you face toface, like I'm kind of looking
in your eyes to kind of see, togauge like how you're taking in
the information I'm giving youand to kind of, you know, like
(33:30):
we use our eyes.
It's like me, our mirrorneurons, I think is what's
happening with our brains, butit's, it helps us kind of know
how to respond, you know, to howto adjust our behavior, our
words accordingly.
I mean, I think that's part ofit and you see another person's
intention in their eyes.
I think you can't see that it'slike, there's this huge part of
human interaction that's blockedoff.
And, and that's, I think that's,that's a creepy thing to think
(33:52):
about because how do you readsomebodies intent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That's a great point.
I mean, and they talk aboutmicro expressions and being able
to read that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And I think you can tell a lot about a person from
looking in their eyes.
I really do.
You know, I know we've knownsome people in our lives and we
were like, you know, there wasjust nothing going on there.
It was a very surface-y.
Um, and there are other peoplewhere you just, you know, I
don't know, you can connect, Ithink with, with eyes.
I mean, would that creep youout?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Oh yeah, of course it would creep me out.
I mean, any aspect of the storycreeps you out?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
So other people have said thatthey often experienced this
extreme monies, like thatlingers way after the encounter.
And sometimes people havereported what sounds to me
almost like a PTSD reaction?
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Well, I mean, of course, like every knock at your
door that would just take youright back to that place.
I mean, that's something I don'tthink you could ever get over
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The expectation that somebody could knock on the
door, you know, even if theytalk never comes.
And actually I have to say thislike Halloween, although I used
to like to go trick or treatingas a kid, like sometimes
Halloween freaks me out becauseit's the anticipation of waiting
for the knocks on the door.
And then if they don't come,like where are they?
And you know, I don't know.
I don't like that anticipationand
Speaker 3 (35:00):
My neighborhood, no one knocks on the door, so I
don't
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Have to worry about it.
And they don't really heareither because they're just
like, we're kind of set back.
So I think I mentioned that Idid see just a little tiny clip
of Brian Bethel, who wasapparently the first, according
to most sources, the person whofirst first recorded one of
these experiences who was onthis show, which I think I
vaguely remember called monstersand mysteries in America.
(35:23):
Do you remember that show?
It was on the snow and all that.
We no longer get, I don't knowif it exists anymore called
destination America.
They had, it was like theparanormal channel.
It's like what travel channel isnow.
So it was all these paranormalshows.
Um, but one of the things hesaid on that, in that clip I
saw, which is, he said, Oh, whathappens to those who do given to
the black eyed kids, relentlessrequests?
(35:43):
Um, so like, I don't know if hesaid it in exactly those words,
but like w you know, I he'd liketo hear the stories of the
people who actually let them in,maybe what happens to them, you
know, did anybody ever let themin?
So David, by the way, he wrotethat book, I told you about, he
has a bunch of theories aboutwhat these things could possibly
be.
And that's one of the things Ilike about his book.
Again, it's just like sothorough, but he, I mean, he
covers everything from like,maybe they're demonic entities,
(36:06):
maybe they're aliens or alienhuman hybrids, you know, they
could be vampires.
He talks about this kind ofAsian folk lore has this thing
called hungry ghost.
I think it's from, I don't knowwhat part of Asia, maybe China,
I'm not sure, but that's, that'sa whole interesting thing, um,
in its own, right.
There's just like all kinds oftheories.
Some of them were that likesomething about the TOPA, uh,
(36:27):
which is this thick, it's likemaybe this Hindi folklore.
So, and I don't know.
I mean, I don't know where thesethings are from, and I can't say
that I necessarily believe theaccounts are true, but for some
reason that has no correlationto the fear that I feel when I
think about them.
I just think that they're scaryas hell.
And it plays on a lot of tropesand themes.
(36:48):
I think, um, there's scary.
Like, you know, we'd alreadytalked about, I don't know if we
talked about this or not, butlike the idea of the creepy
child, you know, there are a lotof movies and stories about like
weird creepy kids, creepy kidsare just too much for me.
Have you ever had an experiencethat you just felt like you
couldn't explain it, it justreally gave you the creeps or an
encounter or anything like that?
(37:08):
I have, like three of those warmis really recent.
I don't know if you remember.
I was at my mom's a few weeksago and I was sleeping on the
couch and my father died not toolong ago.
I kept hearing like the dooropening one of the doors and it
just was really unsettling.
And you could tell about whichdirection it was coming.
(37:29):
Like was it, it was just, it wasstrange.
It is.
And it happened throughout thenight.
And then I had that incidentwith a Weegee board at college.
The other time that I can thinkof off the top of my head is
when me and my friend, mychildhood friend were having a
seance.
And there were these votivecandles that were in glass.
(37:51):
And then they burst when we weredoing our little seance and it
scared hell out of us.
That reminds me of that.
I think I told you, and I thinkI talked about her on here on a
previous episode when we werehaving the Weegee board thing of
college, the light, you know,the light bulb in the ceiling,
just like completely blue duringit makes you wonder, you know,
people say spirit is energy.
Just makes you wonder, you know,I see the energy never goes
(38:13):
away.
Right?
Yeah.
Energy is never.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
So you never, truly, never truly die.
You just go to like different,different dimension, I guess.
Yeah.
There's something comforting.
And that I think there is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, like Ruth, like Ruththat's.
Right.
So we should probably do a toastto Ruth.
I still have just a little bitleft in my drink.
Here's two notorious RBG.
I'll drink to that and we'regoing to carry on and we're
going to fight the good fight.
(38:37):
Cheers.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
and subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
[inaudible].
I'm Jenna Sullivan and I'm Jen Lee.
And we'd like to welcome you tobeneath your bed, a podcast
where we drag out all thosefears that lurk beneath our beds
from the paranormal to truecrime, to the simply strange
along the way, we'll be drinkingcocktails and sharing stories
from our Appalachianupbringings.
What shape does fear take?
Can we look into its eyes intonight's episode, we'll explore
(00:22):
one manifestation of terror thathas become an urban legend for
our times.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jen, how are you?
Hey, Jen, it's it's going allright.
Um,
Speaker 1 (00:39):
With the exception of RBG passing away, I mean, that's
just a real, real hit.
I really is.
I think, I think that hiteverybody really hard when the
news came in last Friday nightand she's the first woman to lay
in the rotunda.
I did not know that.
Yeah, she's the first woman todo that.
And I was also reading too, thatshe died on the Eve of Rosh
(01:03):
Hashana.
And there's some significance tothat because they say that those
who die on the evil Rashana isbecause God was saving them to
the very last because they wereneeded.
Oh my goodness.
That's thought it's just reallystriking.
Really kind of gives me shivers.
When I think about it, he tellsme too, she was just an amazing
woman.
I mean, I think even herpersonal life was amazing.
(01:23):
Like she had this marriage andyou know, her love of opera and
just the incredible work she didagainst all odds and so humble.
And she worked really hard tokeep things collegial on the
Supreme court did.
So tonight I made a little drinkand I'm going to call it the
RBG.
Oh.
And as you know, last weekend Imade some strawberry simple
(01:47):
syrup and I'm not sure if I toldyou I added peppercorns to it.
Who did not tell me that, thatsounds so vice to it with a RBG
I have, of course the strawberryblack peppercorn strawberry
syrup.
And I also added Champaign causeI'm going to try to go through
all of my champagne vodkarosewater.
(02:07):
And then also I added a basilleaf and it's really, really,
really good.
So I'm going to write down, willyou please write that down and
make one for me next time we canactually be together.
That sounds amazing.
100%.
I think that's a perfectcocktail for RBG because it's
sweet and it's elegant, but it'sspicy and a little, got a little
bit of a tough edge with thepepper, but multifaceted like,
(02:28):
like she was well, it's very,very good.
So I'll make you on the nexttime.
I see you.
I would love that.
Well, what I'm drinking is aFrench martini and I I've never
had one before, but I hadrecently bought a bottle of sham
board and I thought I need to dosomething with this.
It's just got vodka, quite a lotof vodka, actually sham, board
and pineapple juice.
(02:48):
And it's, it's wonderful.
It's really, I'm going to soundreally pretentious.
And I really don't mean to, butit's elegant.
Like it has this elegant taste.
It's sort of booze heavy with alittle bit of the fruit, but it
doesn't have that real boozy,like after taste.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I can't explain it.
It's it's got a kick, but it's,it's refined and restrained at
the same time until I told you Iwas going to sound super
pretentious.
So I was going to say, I wouldthink like the pineapple juice
could have drowned it out, butit doesn't sound like it did it.
Doesn't in fact, I think youwould really like this.
Cause I know you like fruitystuff, but sometimes it can get
a little too intense.
So I'm going to make this foryou too.
(03:21):
I think you would really likeit.
It's very subtle.
Well, next weekend when we seeeach other social distancing.
Yes.
Except I think we probablyshouldn't be making each other
drinks, but I guess not, but Iwish we could.
Well, I've been going throughthe Amazon buying spree for the
last three weeks I bought, Ibought a bunch of, I bought
like, I think three water Globesfor Christmas, who I was going
(03:43):
to get you one of those, youbought them.
I bought one with an angel and Ibought another with Cardinals.
And then I, I bought another, Ithink that has Santa Claus.
Oh my God bought another tablerunner and two Christmas trees
wait, like full size.
Well one's 15 inches.
It's a, they're both acrylic.
(04:05):
And it does like the waterglobe.
It kicks things off inside ofit.
Like the glitter.
Oh, that's cool.
Well, I've been on, I don'tthink it's quite as big of a
buying spree as you have, butI'll tell you my latest two
purchases.
One of them, I was telling myhusband about it today.
I'm like, um, so I bought, Ibought a nut dish.
It's like, you know, we boughtit all.
And then I bought this picture.
It's this girl.
(04:26):
And she's in this really likebeautiful poofy white dress.
It's really forties ish.
Well, I collect all thosevintage pictures, but they're
lesbian pictures.
Those are amazing.
I love, I love the pictures thatyou have.
Did you ever get that oneframed?
No, I haven't.
And I had, it was a gift to mefrom last Christmas.
So I do have to get a frame tothe woman that was restoring it.
(04:49):
Well, first off mind you, it's abunch of together dressed
basically as men.
For the most part.
I love it.
Is that the one I that's the oneI saw, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
I mean, it's quite clear what'sgoing on there what's what's
transpiring, but the woman whorestored it said that she
thought maybe it was politicalbecause they were c ause they
were all in uniforms.
(05:11):
I don't know where the she gotthat from, but I thought that
was ridiculous.
I ju st l ike, I really likeimages of women sh ow w hat that
says, but we can't be the onlytwo that are not buying
everything lik e Am azon andeBay.
There's no way when I'm reallyold though.
I'm just going to be like thisold lady with no money.
And I'm like all this bri ck, aB r a ck ar ound.
(05:33):
So with that, are you ready?
Shall we start?
Yes, I'm ready.
All ri ght.
So Jen, this is a story aboutwhat happens when evil cloaked
in in nocence asks to be invitedinto your life.
What do you think about that?
Yeah.
Sounds like a woman.
Well, tonight I'm going to tellyou about a phenomenon known as
(05:53):
the black eyed children orblack-eyed kids and they've come
to be referred to
Speaker 1 (05:58):
As just the bee Ks.
So if that's okay with you, Ithink that's how it referred to
them throughout my story.
That's that's good.
I tried to watch a few thingsabout them today.
So I have a little bit ofknowledge, but not much awesome.
I actually, I've only seen onetiny clip.
Most of what I've done is read,but, um, I'd be very curious to
see some shows about them.
So, I mean, honestly, I can'teven remember how I heard about
(06:21):
them or aware.
It was kind of recently, it justkind of something occurred to
me, like do the bee Ks for, forthe podcast.
And I'm trying to think, Imust've seen them mentioned
somewhere, but I, I honestlycan't remember where that was,
but I know this, I do know thatthis is a phenomenon that like
really gets under my skin.
I guess I scare easily.
I think people probably havegotten that by now, but this
(06:41):
like truly frightens me.
And I think of all the thingswe've talked about, or at least
the things I've talked about onthe podcast so far, this is the
one that most freaks me out.
So I went to, I went to a fewdifferent sources when I did an
internet search.
Um, so Snopes came up.
So I looked at Snopes andSnopes, of course they said
like, there's no evidence thatthis phenomenon actually exists.
However, it's kind of, part ofit's become part of urban
(07:04):
folklore.
And that's fine because for methe fact that it's so scary, it
doesn't have anything to do withwhether it's true or not, but
just, just imagining it reallyterrifies me.
So I also read about it in thisarticle called black-eyed kids,
the chilling legend that beganan Abilene, and this was from
Texas Hill country.com.
So according to those two sites,the first story or the first
(07:25):
sighting about black eyed kids,um, is from 1996.
And it was a guy named BrianBethel who apparently was a
journalist and he was living inAbilene, Texas.
So he, um, he processed hisexperiences and a lot of his
feelings about life, just as awriter, like by writing about
it.
And I guess he had an interestin the paranormal because he
posted about it on this ghostrelated.
(07:46):
What I suppose in the ninetieswould have been like a listserv,
um, because I know it was aclosed group.
You had to be a member of thegroup to read the posts, but
somehow he, he posted there andthen the story just really took
off.
I mean, it went what we wouldnow say viral.
He is the first, according tomost sources who had an
encounter.
So this happened to him in 1996.
I think he posted on the, on thelist around 1998, according to
(08:09):
him, it was nighttime and he hadto pay a bill.
And I don't know if the bill wasmaybe going to be late if he
didn't get it in, get it in bythe next day.
But he decided to take a checkand drop it off at the, um, at a
Dropbox or something.
So he's in the shopping centerand he's in his car.
Is this in the evening?
It is.
So it's nighttime.
Yeah, it's dark.
And he's in the shopping centerand he's in his car just riding
(08:32):
out the track cause he's like meand he never does anything in
preparation in advance.
He's always, you know, he wasjust doing it at the last minute
and he was going to drop it off.
So while he's writing, he hearsthis rapping.
It reminds me of something on apole, right.
This wrap, wrap, wrapping it,his card or his car window.
So he looks up and he sees twoboys and he estimated, they were
somewhere between 10 and 14years old.
(08:53):
He couldn't quite tell.
But what he did say was thatimmediately felt this immense
sense of uneasiness, but youknow, they're kids and they're
outside and it's late.
So I think it was around 10 30at night.
So he rolled his window down afew inches to ask what it was
they wanted.
And they told him that they hadplanned to go to a movie, but
that they'd forgotten theirmoney at home.
So they asked him to let theminto their car so that he could
(09:15):
drive them home to pick up themoney.
And he was like, well, you know,I'm not sure about that.
Like what are your kids going toa movie?
You know, at this hour, I'm justsort of imagining what the
conversation was like.
But apparently the kids saidsomething like, you know, don't,
don't be worried.
We're just two kids.
It's not gonna take long.
Just let us in, ask us inside,ask us inside your car.
And they made it clear that theycouldn't get into the car until
(09:36):
he gave them permission to doso.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Did he give them permission?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
He did not.
So I would say maybe halfwaythrough this encounter, towards
the end of the encounter, he sawtheir eyes and there, he noticed
that their eyes were completelyblack.
So it wasn't.
So we're going to just talkingbecause I have dark eyes, but
it's not like their eyes weredark.
It was, it was like the entire Iwas, was completely black.
So the sclera, which I didn'teven know the name, but
(10:00):
apparently the white part ofyour eyes called the sclera was
completely black.
So like looking at somebody whohas no pupils, no white part of
their eye, just just avoidbasically.
And he, he completely loses itat this point.
At this point, he talks abouthow his fight or flight response
just took over and in a panic,like he starts the car up and he
drives away as fast as he can.
And as he's driving away, he'skind of, I guess he had the
(10:21):
presence of mind to look in therear view mirror and they had
vanished.
He didn't see anybody oranything.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
There's something to me that's so frightening.
Anything to do with a knock or arapping like at the door,
especially at a window.
I just find that, I mean, agreewith that.
I mean, have you ever been onyour car and someone's knocked
on your window and how do youjump out of your skin?
I have
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That happened to me.
He actually, outside of aworkplace one time, um, I was
doing something in the car.
It was the end of the Workdaygetting ready to leave.
And a client actually, um, waswrapping up my window and I
looked up and I mean, I, Ijumped.
I was like, what in the world?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
About two to three years ago, we, you know, I have
really bad insomnia and I hadn'tslept for almost a day.
So on the way back from a workevent, and this is during broad
daylight, I am like, you know, Ineed to pull over.
I need to get some sleep, take alittle nap or, you know, I don't
want to get an accident and hurtsomebody.
So I pull over at this dairyqueen and try to kind of park in
(11:19):
a remote spot and I fall asleep.
Next thing I know, I wake up to,um, ambulance driver knocking or
a paramedic knocking on mywindow.
And I'm like, what?
And they're like, ma'am, are youokay?
Someone called us?
I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
I'm just taking a short nap.
And then about that time, apolice officer, police cruiser
pulls up behind my car, likeblocks me in, like I'm doing
(11:41):
something criminal.
And he comes over, he asked formy license, asked me if I was
doing okay.
And I said, you know, I was justreally tired.
I just pulled over to catch somesleep.
But I think that they thoughtthat I was on something and had
taken some drugs and had driftedoff to sleep.
And someone became concerned,but thought you were dead.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's a possibilitytoo, but I've jumped out of my
(12:03):
skin when they did that.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It happened to me when I used to go up to
Baltimore for grad school, likesome mornings and some
especially mornings, I wouldfeel like, you know, it would be
so easy to just close my eyesand just drift off.
So I know that feeling andthat's a really scary feeling.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah.
It was really scary in thebeginning.
And then it quickly moved on toembarrassment because it was
such a scene.
That's awful
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Cool.
How long did it take for them tolet you go?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I can say from the time the paramedic knocked on my
window to the police officer, Iwould say less than 10 minutes,
maybe, but long enough.
I mean, it probably felt likeforever.
Yeah.
And people were staring.
So
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I totally agree with you that I think knocking in is,
is in itself creepy.
I think at grill Poe definitelyknew that.
And other kind of scary things.
So if you imagine hearing aknocking and I think everybody
can imagine this, so you openthe door and there's nobody
there that's really creepy too.
Or like you said, somebodyknocking somewhere that they
really shouldn't be like, likeon a window.
I think.
So.
I think the story definitelyhits on some primal fears that
(13:03):
people have.
And there have been so manyaccounts of this since Brian
Bethel's.
Um, so if you go on, there'ssome subreddits on this and
there's a book I'm going to betalking about in a little bit,
when he tells all kinds ofstories, he's done a lot of
research and interviewed a lotof people who have experienced
this, or at least say thatthey've done.
So, but the stories all seem tofollow kind of a familiar
pattern.
So someone hears a knock ontheir door or their car window,
(13:26):
you know, there are these kidsand there's always a request to
be led in.
It's.
Some people describe it as afairly forceful request, but
it's always like, it's kind oflike polite, pseudo, polite with
like a threat underneath of it.
In his stories.
The person is almost alwaysovercome by a sense of dread or
in some cases, panic and terror.
Um, and usually the dread getsto the point that the person
they're kind of their, I guesstheir fight instinct clicks, it
(13:49):
snaps in and they slam the doorin the kids' faces or they drive
off if they're in a car as fastas possible.
So like 99.9, 9% of the stories,like I've never read a story
where the person actually let'slets the kids in.
You know, that was going to bemy next question.
Well, somebody said in one ofthe things I read, they're like,
I want to know about all thestories that haven't been told
(14:09):
because people who did let themin that's if you let your mind
go down that road, I think itgets really scary.
But the other part of the story,of course, and part of why
they're called what they are isthe black eyes.
And in a lot of the encounters,people don't really notice the
eyes at first because the kidstend to look down or to the side
and their eyes really aren't asvisible, but always at some
point, usually towards themiddle to the end of the
(14:31):
encounter, they see the eyes andthat's often for people like the
last straw it's at that pointlike, Oh, yeah, let me, let me
close the door really fast.
So there was another story Iwanted to share a couple of
stories and Brian's was one.
But the other one I wanted toshare was by the sky, he goes by
Jake.
I don't think that's his realname, but it was from something
called my black eyed kidencounter by Jake on this
(14:51):
website, hachette.com.
Hachette is a book publisher.
So I wasn't sure what this waslinked to, but it was just an
interesting story.
And it follows a lot of the samethemes.
Yeah.
The themes that I talked about.
So apparently Jake is a crazyguy because Jake put an ad in
Craigslist saying that he reallywanted to know if the black kid
phenomenon was real.
And so he was going to go hangout at a local park.
(15:12):
And he said exactly where he wasgoing to be like he was going to
be on a certain bench by acertain tree.
Um, and if any, any bee casewanted to meet up with him, they
could find them there.
He was going to be there.
Like, I don't know.
He picked like one day a week.
So he did.
And he said that he went for sixmonths and he said in that time
he met a lot of weird people.
There were a lot of weirdos, buthe did not meet any BBKs.
(15:32):
So after six months he hadn'thad enough.
He's like, whatever, this is, itwent as far as it was going to
go.
And he takes the ad down.
So the same week, but a littlebit later that he, that he took
the ad down, there's a knock athis door.
And he says that he immediatelyknew it was one of the black
eyed kids and that he went, andthese are his words.
He went ice cold and he wroteabout it.
(15:52):
He said, I was wrong about notbeing afraid of[inaudible].
The fear is on a different leveland instinctual primal level.
And that story really struck mefirst of all, because the guy is
crazy, you know, but I mean,he's crazy for like, to me, he's
crazy for seeking it out.
But I think the other thing thatwas so striking is how he
described that fear response andlike that knowing in so many of
(16:14):
these accounts, talk about fearlike that.
And they say like, unless it'shappened to you, you totally
wouldn't get it.
It was just like, like a knowingthere is something off here,
there's something not right.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
It reminds me too a little bit of similarity between
men and black in a way, becausethey kind of just arrive.
Usually it's after some UFOincident and they arrive in
throughout a place and peoplecan't really put their finger on
it and they ask kind of strangequestions, things that are kind
of out.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, it's so interesting that you say that
because this book I'm going totalk about, he actually talks.
I mean, he talks about all kindsof interesting things in this
book and I highly recommend it,but he does talk about the
similarities to the men andblack phenomenon.
And I think as I tell you aboutmore of these kids, I'm in a
little bit, I'm going to talkabout some of their
characteristics.
And I think it's going to remindyou even more of the men in
plaque.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Honestly, I didn't read anything about there being,
you know, anyone can making thecomparison
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Really cool that you picked up on that.
And I think you're right.
And I hadn't heard about the menin black.
Like I, I read that moth manprophecies book, God, like years
ago.
And I know, um, what's thatguy's name?
John keel.
John keel.
Right.
And he talks about the men inblack in there, but I couldn't
remember a lot.
So I had to refresh my memoryof, you know, what they did, but
I think with the men in black,there was also that sense of a
threat, right.
(17:29):
That they were kind ofintimidating you in some way.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
There was something nefarious about them.
And I think with the moth manprophesy with, with keel, I
think that's the first referencemade to minim black, but I could
be wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's very interesting.
I would like to, we should do apodcast on men in black.
So yeah, I had mentioned thatbook that I read and it was it's
called black-eyed children, butit's by this guy named David
Weatherly who looks like a realcharacter in his author photo,
but he looks like he'd be a lotof fun.
He's done all kinds of researchand writing on the paranormal
and he's a good writer.
So I really enjoyed this book.
(18:02):
It was extremely thorough.
He goes into all of thedescriptions.
He tells like a bunch of, youknow, he interviews a lot of
people.
So he recounts to their storiesin their own words.
But he also, in the secondsection of the book, he talks
about some of the theoriesbehind the black eyed kids.
Like why, what might they be?
Why are they here?
What do they want?
That kind of thing.
So, yeah.
And again, um, the stories Iprobably read, I don't know, 20,
(18:23):
25 different stories in thatbook and they're all while
they're different and you know,they're described differently in
different words, they're allreally similar.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the characteristics and I,
I think these are prettyinteresting.
So, so the kids, so the kidsappearance, what do they look
like?
Well, in most accounts, theytend to be boys once in a while,
somebody will mention a girlthat there might be a boy and a
(18:45):
girl together they're usuallydescribed as preteens to teens.
So like 10 years old up to like16, 17, something like that.
And people tend to notice howthey're dressed and say that
something just seems kind ofoff.
So their clothing has beendescribed as ratty old fashioned
ill-fitting baggy they're,they're always dressed in dark
(19:06):
colors.
Sometimes they wear hoodies, butthey're often mistaken for kids
who are homeless or maybe whohave run away.
And when it comes to their skintone, they're almost always
described as extremely pale.
Um, sometimes as an olive skintone, but usually pale in some
wouldn't witnesses have saidthat the skin appeared to have a
strange texture and it justsomehow did not look right.
(19:27):
I'm sure you've read theChristmas Carol or a Christmas.
Carol.
I love it.
Yeah.
That's probably one of myfavorite books, but I don't know
if you remember the part wherethe ghost of Christmas present
at the very end, he lifts up hisrobe and he shows Scrooge to
children.
Is it ignorance, ignorance, andwant, I think yes.
(19:48):
Ignorance and want, and justmade me think of that too.
That's interesting.
I had never thought about that.
That I like that a whole lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because they do, they look so,um, you know, apparently they're
very thin nobody's everdescribed chunky black-eyed kid
in, you know, they, they justlook very, I guess, kind of
unkempt and not really wellcared for, but the one thing
(20:09):
people don't usually noticeright away, interestingly
enough, are the eyes because thekids are usually looking down
and kind of looking down wherethey're talking to you.
Um, or they're kind of lookingoff to the side.
So I'm in some stories, the kidsare alone, but typically, and
they remind me of the Mormons.
They travel in pairs.
Sometimes they're more than two,although I don't think I've read
(20:30):
any stories that mentioned thatthere were more than four.
I think four was like thehighest number.
I mean, I'm not saying none ofthis is like carved in stone,
but from the research I've done.
So the kids are always, theyalways have a request to be led
inside and it's either a home orlike someplace like somebody's
place of employment or a car andpeople.
I know.
(20:50):
Where would you rather them comelike your car or your home?
That's a hard, I think I wouldrather always come to my home
and then my car, see, I feel, Ifeel the opposite because if
they're, if they're in my car orat my car, I mean, they're not
going to know where I live, butif they're at my house and they
like, they've cornered me, well,I feel that if I'm
Speaker 3 (21:08):
In my car, I'm most likely alone.
And if I'm at home, then I'm inthe comfort of my own home.
And then I also have my dogs,especially my bigger dog.
It makes me feel better
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For your wife out there.
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I don't think she's going to be able to manage, to
do much of anything, but I couldbe wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Oh, we try to make them a meal or something.
She, she would probably scoldthem.
She probably would actually.
That's super funny.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
My biggest fears too, is a lot of times on Reddit or
on YouTube, they'll read storiesfrom Reddit and a common theme
will be middle of nowherestories.
And oftentimes it'll involveyour car breaking down.
And to me that's so scary.
So maybe that's why.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
No, I didn't think of that.
I mean, I guess I was imagininglike, I'm going to the grocery
store or I'm at the CVS, likelate one night to pick up
something or you know, somethingthe dairy queen actually passed
out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The dairy feed actually I'd gothere for too often.
I must admit, but there's a,
Speaker 3 (22:11):
There's a song by I'm showing you my, my lesbian, uh,
roots, but there's a story.
There's a song by Amy Ray, theIndigo girls it's called dairy
queen.
And one of the lines is, um, Iwas drunk and mean down by the
dairy queen or you were drunkand mean
Speaker 1 (22:27):
What that song written about you.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
That's a good white trash along.
That could totally get me.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
My family, like they think, uh,going to the dairy queen is the
biggest treat.
So whenever, whenever I come tovisit, mom's like, you want to
go to the dairy queen in fact,next time, you know, when we can
actually see each other againand see people, if you come and
visit my family, my mom willmost certainly insist that she
takes you to the dairy queen.
So I'm going to have to getdrunk first or take, take some
(22:55):
meds and pass out the backseatcard.
Oh God.
So people have described their,like their speech patterns.
It's kind of weird.
And they requests have beendescribed as insistent,
sometimes overly polite.
But then at the same time, likestrangely forceful, you know,
like very persuasive or at leastthey're trying to be persuasive.
Some people have said theirspeech and its repetitive nature
(23:16):
has an almost hypnotic quality.
I just have to tell you what myhusband said.
I was telling him about theblack guide kids earlier.
And I'm like, you know, he'slike, well, does anybody ever
let them in?
I'm like, well, most of thestories they don't.
And he's like, well, I feel badfor these kids.
They're like real loops.
I'm like, well, I mean, here inBrian's the one who picked up
the,
Speaker 3 (23:36):
The angry homeless person and around for what, a
couple of hours or an hour.
And the guy kept getting moreand more aggressive as time went
on.
So we both picked up somebody.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Um, well I picked up somebody from the neighborhood,
but she was drunk off her and Ithought she would never get o ur
Doris.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
And Brian is also, yeah, I was just going, say, get
, and then you pick her up andlike she's screaming was
screaming and cursing in thecar.
And then she passed out at thebottom of the Hill.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yes.
And I had to like wake her upand get her into the, get her
out of my car.
I'm like,, no good deed goesunpunished.
But Brian picked up some crazyguy and like he took him
wherever he wanted to go.
I don't remember where that was,but the guy, several places, if
I remember correctly, it wasseveral places.
I had forgotten that.
Oh my God.
(24:23):
So yeah, he, he took him on allhis errands.
And so he, um, when he getshome, like the next day I go
into the car and there's likethe cigar with like a price tag
on it that says something like39, nine, the guy forgot his
cigar, which I have a feeling it was probably stolen.
So I still have, we have a cigarin our h ouse.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
He's going to have to spoke at this Christmas together
.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That would be funny.
I smoked a cigar once in afraternity house.
It was really nasty.
I mean, I didn't smoke the wholething.
I attempted to be like a real, Iwanted to be like one of the
boys and show how tough I was.
And I think I like choked.
Basically.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I smoke this huge cigar.
My parents said that I could doit.
Well, the story behind it is, um, showing my Appalachian roots
here, but we would go see mygrandmother and my family.
And on the way there you, whenyou enter Virginia, and then
when you're coming back home,there was a Stuckey East.
Do you remember?
Stuckey's no, it's not a carwash, is it?
(25:23):
No, no.
It's Stuckey's and I don't evenknow if they're in existence
anymore, but you would go thereand just get like, it's kind of
like a five and dime, but moreupscale.
Okay.
And so it's like a souvenir shopbasically.
So I got this huge cigar fromthere and I don't know like why
a child would be able to, Oh, Iwas young.
(25:44):
I was probably, I wasn't olderthan 10 cigar was probably as
big as my laptop.
So light that thing up.
Yeah.
They let me light it and it mademe so sick to my stomach.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Where did you smoke it in?
Inside the car?
No,
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I smoked it.
I spoke to it at home.
That is the gambit story thatyou've ever told me.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Tell me a lot of stories and I don't know if it
is the damnest, but it iscertainly, I'm just shocked.
Like, I mean, I'm justcompletely shocked.
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm just a font of up Appalachia.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I am too.
I just, I think I, I so badlywhen I, now we're going into a
whole different thing, but wemight as well digress.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Um, when I was growing up in
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Appalachia, like I so badly wanted to not be from
there that like I tried to likebe my own life coach, which I'm
really ashamed of now.
Like, so that I wouldn't bedepartment's veneer of like fake
sophistication.
So, you know, occasionally Ithink I can be a little
pretentious and that's totallywhere that comes from.
Cause it's wanting to cover up.
What I saw is like, I don'tknow, like I just wanted to
(26:50):
reject it cause I thought I'dget stuck forever.
But yeah, God, I love that cigarstory.
Anyway, black back to the blackeyed kids.
So in most of the stories, theirmannerisms and speech are really
odd.
And I don't know if I've saidthis already, ironically, but
they tend to repeat themselveswithout a lot of variation.
So if you ask them a question,like if they say, please ma'am,
(27:11):
can I get into your car?
I need to go to the grocerystore and you say, well, are you
lost?
Like where are your parents?
Why do you need to go to thegrocery store?
They're not going to answer thequestion.
They're just going to say,please, ma'am, I'm just a kid
and I need to get in your carplease.
Won't you ask me in your car.
That's kind of how theconversation will go.
Um, so like they're reallyinsistent, like they'll knock
and knock and knock untilsomebody answers.
(27:32):
And when people have told them,when they finally get really
creeped out and closed the door,a lot of stories, people will
say that the knocking continuesfor quite a while after they
finally closed the door, whichis to me is just creepy as hell.
So they also say stuff like youwon't take long.
We won't be long trying to, andI don't really know what their
tone of voice is.
I'm imagining that it's probablynot the way I'm saying it.
Like it's much more robotic.
(27:54):
Some people have said theyalmost came across as robots
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And that's what the men in black too.
I think it was the same thing.
Some similarities there is thatthey sounded robotic or maybe
like their speech was stilted.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Exactly.
Almost like we might sound, ifwe're speaking foreign language,
like I'm trying to speak French,but um, my friend has coming out
like textbook French ratherthan, you know, the French who
would speak in day to day, thatkind of thing.
Or like they just learned aword.
People say that about these kidstoo.
Um, and sometimes they said youcould almost see them like
making a conscious effort tolike say a word, right.
Or to like recall a word likethey had memorized it or
(28:29):
something.
So that's another reallyinteresting link between the
black ID kids and the men inblack.
It makes you wonder if this islike an urban legend.
That's kind of a spinoff of menand black, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
No, I think it's interesting too, that there's
that aspect to it again, of youallowing them in giving some
something permission as, forexample, with, um, possession.
They say that if you do certainthings that you're opening up
yourself to that.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
I hadn't thought about that.
But the one that I really didthink about that, you know,
where you have to ask permissionto enter as vampires, because
according to him, like you, youknow, the vampire can't come
over the threshold unless youinvite him or her.
And so yeah,
Speaker 3 (29:07):
It's like a theme.
I don't know if it's just a wayto blame, you know, blame
somebody or especially womenknow.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
But yeah, there is that similarity similarity too.
I definitely got something Iwant to think about more because
I just think it's a reallyinteresting detail.
Um, so a lot of people also seesaid that they seem kind of
emotionless.
Like they're just kind of goingthrough the motions and yet
they're strangely persuasive.
So some people said that theyfelt a lot of people say they
felt almost like they were beinghypnotized, that there was a
part of them that was thinkinglike their minds were kind of
(29:35):
separated into two parts.
One part was like, you know,these, these are just kids.
Like let them in, like, they'refine.
Um, and there's this other partthat's kind of holding back and
going like, wait, like there'ssomething really off here.
And usually it seems like it'sthat part that wins out.
But most of the, in most of thestories, the kids seem to appear
out of nowhere and they seem tovanish without a trace.
Once the person refuses to letthem in.
I think if a kid I would let akid into my car, if they came
(29:58):
running up to it, screaming andbanging on the door, I'd let
them in.
But it's kind of casual, youknow, knocking and asking to be
let in.
First of all, it's like whonowadays is going to let a child
into the car unless it's anabsolute emergency nowadays
you'd think like, well, whatcould the kids say about you if
you let them in, right?
Like, I'd be afraid that a kidin and like, they're going to be
like, Oh, like I was molested orGod forbid you take them
(30:20):
somewhere and you get in a wreckand then you, somebody whose kid
has been hurt.
A story that I listened to, uh,today, briefly had talked about
this man who had gone campingnear the beach.
And these kids showed up at histent asking to be let in.
And I'm thinking what, whatperson in the right mind would
let them in to a tent out in themiddle of nowhere, not me, but
(30:42):
just so, I mean, I feel likeeverybody who listens to this
podcast, like do not let thesekids know me though.
I hate kids anyway.
So I'm definitely not living ina Bratton in my car.
We call nine one one first.
Yeah.
That's part of my hard crustyexterior, but so they're
definitely not getting in mycar.
Now, if it's a kitten, youbetter believe I'm going to
stop.
The wheels will be screeching,definitely going to let them in
(31:05):
a couple of days ago, I sent youthat picture a relative of mine,
of course, in the Appalachians,saw this kitten out in the
middle of the road, picked it upand it was a Bobcat that was so
unbelievable.
Oh my God.
A little bit, except for thepicture you sent me.
But anyway, I digress.
Yeah.
I could go on and tell you aboutmy baby bunny story, but I mean,
it doesn't sound like a goodone.
(31:26):
So please don't tell me, keepgoing.
Let's just say I've learned tonot interfere with nature.
So going on about the black kids.
So, um, witnesses describedfeeling that their requests
though, seemingly polite on thesurface that there there's some
health threatening.
Also the kids are, they'reextremely persistent.
And one story I read the personwas so freaked out and then they
(31:47):
back away from the door.
They make sure it's locked.
And then they look to the side,I guess there was a window and
the kid had their face pressedup against the window.
Just like with the black eyes,just boring into them.
Can you imagine I would screamso loud and McCall everybody I
knew to come over and I wouldtell you probably call me and
I'd be like, Oh no, I would comeyou're my bestie.
(32:08):
So I would come, the knocks arealso described as, as really
insistent, um, with like littlevariation, like they're not
doing a shave and a haircutthey're doing like, not knock.
And, uh, so it was just likevery, I don't even know the
word, like very rote orsomething.
Um, and this is interesting.
So in some accounts, certainlynot every story, but some of
them, they say that either whilethey're talking with the kids or
(32:31):
in other stories, it's likeafter they've left, people are
overwhelmed by this really foulsmell and people have described
it as rotten eggs.
They said it, one person said itsmelled like dirty diapers or
rotting trash, or like a rottinganimal carcass.
And I thought that wasinteresting
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Or the flatwoods monster.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Right.
Cause he was supposed to besmelly too.
Wasn't he smelled of sulfursoftware and you know, software
of course is related to thedevil associate that.
So is it like from hell, is thatwhy it's smelling like this?
Or are these just like somenasty kids who haven't had a
bath in awhile?
I mean, but I thought that wasreally interesting.
People who've described thesmell, said it was like over, it
would overcome you.
(33:08):
So I was just trying to thinkabout this.
I mean, trying to imagine whatit would be like to look into
somebody's eyes that werecompletely black, because
obviously I have no experiencewith that.
Um, and I'm just thinking about,okay, so what is it the eyes do
for us?
So I think our eyes are part ofour communication.
If I'm talking to you face toface, like I'm kind of looking
in your eyes to kind of see, togauge like how you're taking in
the information I'm giving youand to kind of, you know, like
(33:30):
we use our eyes.
It's like me, our mirrorneurons, I think is what's
happening with our brains, butit's, it helps us kind of know
how to respond, you know, to howto adjust our behavior, our
words accordingly.
I mean, I think that's part ofit and you see another person's
intention in their eyes.
I think you can't see that it'slike, there's this huge part of
human interaction that's blockedoff.
And, and that's, I think that's,that's a creepy thing to think
(33:52):
about because how do you readsomebodies intent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That's a great point.
I mean, and they talk aboutmicro expressions and being able
to read that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And I think you can tell a lot about a person from
looking in their eyes.
I really do.
You know, I know we've knownsome people in our lives and we
were like, you know, there wasjust nothing going on there.
It was a very surface-y.
Um, and there are other peoplewhere you just, you know, I
don't know, you can connect, Ithink with, with eyes.
I mean, would that creep youout?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Oh yeah, of course it would creep me out.
I mean, any aspect of the storycreeps you out?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
So other people have said thatthey often experienced this
extreme monies, like thatlingers way after the encounter.
And sometimes people havereported what sounds to me
almost like a PTSD reaction?
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Well, I mean, of course, like every knock at your
door that would just take youright back to that place.
I mean, that's something I don'tthink you could ever get over
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The expectation that somebody could knock on the
door, you know, even if theytalk never comes.
And actually I have to say thislike Halloween, although I used
to like to go trick or treatingas a kid, like sometimes
Halloween freaks me out becauseit's the anticipation of waiting
for the knocks on the door.
And then if they don't come,like where are they?
And you know, I don't know.
I don't like that anticipationand
Speaker 3 (35:00):
My neighborhood, no one knocks on the door, so I
don't
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Have to worry about it.
And they don't really heareither because they're just
like, we're kind of set back.
So I think I mentioned that Idid see just a little tiny clip
of Brian Bethel, who wasapparently the first, according
to most sources, the person whofirst first recorded one of
these experiences who was onthis show, which I think I
vaguely remember called monstersand mysteries in America.
(35:23):
Do you remember that show?
It was on the snow and all that.
We no longer get, I don't knowif it exists anymore called
destination America.
They had, it was like theparanormal channel.
It's like what travel channel isnow.
So it was all these paranormalshows.
Um, but one of the things hesaid on that, in that clip I
saw, which is, he said, Oh, whathappens to those who do given to
the black eyed kids, relentlessrequests?
(35:43):
Um, so like, I don't know if hesaid it in exactly those words,
but like w you know, I he'd liketo hear the stories of the
people who actually let them in,maybe what happens to them, you
know, did anybody ever let themin?
So David, by the way, he wrotethat book, I told you about, he
has a bunch of theories aboutwhat these things could possibly
be.
And that's one of the things Ilike about his book.
Again, it's just like sothorough, but he, I mean, he
covers everything from like,maybe they're demonic entities,
(36:06):
maybe they're aliens or alienhuman hybrids, you know, they
could be vampires.
He talks about this kind ofAsian folk lore has this thing
called hungry ghost.
I think it's from, I don't knowwhat part of Asia, maybe China,
I'm not sure, but that's, that'sa whole interesting thing, um,
in its own, right.
There's just like all kinds oftheories.
Some of them were that likesomething about the TOPA, uh,
(36:27):
which is this thick, it's likemaybe this Hindi folklore.
So, and I don't know.
I mean, I don't know where thesethings are from, and I can't say
that I necessarily believe theaccounts are true, but for some
reason that has no correlationto the fear that I feel when I
think about them.
I just think that they're scaryas hell.
And it plays on a lot of tropesand themes.
(36:48):
I think, um, there's scary.
Like, you know, we'd alreadytalked about, I don't know if we
talked about this or not, butlike the idea of the creepy
child, you know, there are a lotof movies and stories about like
weird creepy kids, creepy kidsare just too much for me.
Have you ever had an experiencethat you just felt like you
couldn't explain it, it justreally gave you the creeps or an
encounter or anything like that?
(37:08):
I have, like three of those warmis really recent.
I don't know if you remember.
I was at my mom's a few weeksago and I was sleeping on the
couch and my father died not toolong ago.
I kept hearing like the dooropening one of the doors and it
just was really unsettling.
And you could tell about whichdirection it was coming.
(37:29):
Like was it, it was just, it wasstrange.
It is.
And it happened throughout thenight.
And then I had that incidentwith a Weegee board at college.
The other time that I can thinkof off the top of my head is
when me and my friend, mychildhood friend were having a
seance.
And there were these votivecandles that were in glass.
(37:51):
And then they burst when we weredoing our little seance and it
scared hell out of us.
That reminds me of that.
I think I told you, and I thinkI talked about her on here on a
previous episode when we werehaving the Weegee board thing of
college, the light, you know,the light bulb in the ceiling,
just like completely blue duringit makes you wonder, you know,
people say spirit is energy.
Just makes you wonder, you know,I see the energy never goes
(38:13):
away.
Right?
Yeah.
Energy is never.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
So you never, truly, never truly die.
You just go to like different,different dimension, I guess.
Yeah.
There's something comforting.
And that I think there is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, like Ruth, like Ruththat's.
Right.
So we should probably do a toastto Ruth.
I still have just a little bitleft in my drink.
Here's two notorious RBG.
I'll drink to that and we'regoing to carry on and we're
going to fight the good fight.
(38:37):
Cheers.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
and subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
[inaudible].
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