January 13, 2021 • 45 mins
Does genius come with an early expiration date? Whether it be a curse or the consequences of fast living, some of the world’s greatest talents have flamed out at a young age. Tonight we consider the so-called “27 club” and a few of its best known members.
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Braid, Mary. “A Rock Legend Unto Herself.” Independent. October 23, 2011
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/rock-legend-unto-herself-1345098.html
Chiu, David. “Mia Zapata: Punk Musician Murdered in 1993, Changing Seattle Grunge Scene.” Rolling Stone. July 9, 2018
Forensic Files. “The Day the Music Died.” Season 12, Episode 7. Aired November 14, 2007
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1142328/fullcredits
Harrington, Richard and Lei, Richard. “Nirvana Singer Found Dead.” April 9, 1994.
Independent. “The death of Jimi Hendrix: the unanswered questions.” September 17, 2020
Jim Morrison - Final 24: His Final Hours. 2020
https://www.amazon.com/Morrison-Jim-Final-His-Hours/dp/B003VC6F44
Johnson, Tracy. “11 years later, justice for slain singer Zapata: DNA sample helps convict Miami man of murder.” Seattle Post-Intelligencer Reporter. March 25, 2004
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/11-years-later-justice-for-slain-singer-Zapata-1140617.php
Lamoureux, Aimee. “The Mystery of Jim Morrison's Death and the Theories Around It.” All That’s Interesting. April 9, 2018.
Military.com. “Famous Veterans: Jimi Hendrix.”
Pian Chan, Sharon. “Singer’s killer sentenced to 36 years in prison again.” The Seattle Times. January 30, 2009
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/singers-killer-sentenced-to-36-years-in-prison-again/
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. “Jimi Hendrix Experience”
https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/jimi-hendrix-experience
"The Last Hours of Janis Joplin" Season 2, 2016.
Tizon, Alex. “Who Murdered Mia Zapata? -- No Arrests, Few Clues 5 Years After Slaying.” The Seattle Times. August 23, 1998
https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19980823&slug=2768095
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Does genius come with an early expiration date,
whether it be a curse or theconsequences of fast living,
some of the world's greatesttalents have flamed out at a
young age tonight, we considerthe so-called 27 club and a few
of its best known members.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Jen, how are you?
I'm
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Doing well.
How are you, Jen?
I'm recovering
Speaker 3 (00:26):
From break or recovering from the holidays.
I think I'm a bit hung over.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I feel exactly the same way kind of in that
transitional period where you'retrying to go from like the most
important decision of your dayis what to have for breakfast
back to real life.
That's where I'm at.
Yeah, me too.
I feel very out of sorts duringtransitions like that.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Uh, I've been having a lot of crazy dreams.
Like last night I dreamt thatthe Iranian government was
trying to assassinate me.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You should run, you should write these dreams down
and write political thrillers orsomething.
That's a crazy dream.
I think
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Trying to take me out before the aliens come and
harvest my eggs.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That must be it.
That's too crazy.
That was a crazy dream where youreally scared in the dream,
like, did you wake up freakedout?
I was, but I can't remember thespecifics.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I don't even know where that even came into being.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But that's, that's a crazy dream.
I actually, it's funny.
You said that you had crazydreams because I've been getting
my days and nights mixed up alot during break.
And um, so I've been, the resultis that I'm sleeping a lot
during the day.
And I had some wacko dreamstoday and you were actually in
one of them.
So I was back in college andlike my husband and I were
together, but I guess we weredating.
(01:41):
I don't think we were marriedyet, but we were like, we were
in this huge fight and we haddifferent dorm rooms.
And so finally we go to talk andhe's like, well, I've just been
laying here.
Talk, talking about our problemswith Jen.
And I'm like, what?
I was.
Cause I'm like, she's my bestfriend.
You can go to her about ourproblems first.
And like, I was trying to callyou on this little cell phone
(02:03):
from like 2003.
And like, I couldn't get yournumber.
I couldn't get anybody's number.
And then there was this groupthat was like, I don't know.
They thought I had mental healthissues and wanted me to join it.
And like their whole thing abouthow to deal with it was like you
do crafts and you had to likewrite like 100 or like one, 1000
word essays about like differentsubjects.
(02:23):
Apparently if you were busyenough, like you would not be
your mental illness would not.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
They needed a new president is what it sounded
like.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And I had swirling water dreams.
Do you ever have those?
Those are my stress dreams.
Oh my God.
It's always this swirling Brownwater that you don't know what's
in the water.
Like it could be anything andlike cliff.
Well it's for me, it is likewhen I have those dreams, I know
that I'm mentally drafted up andtake care of myself.
So I had one of those as well.
(02:54):
Not, not a good afternoon sleep,but we'll get through it.
We'll get through thesetransitions is transitional time
and everybody else will too.
Transitions are hard, man.
They're hard.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So what are you having to drink tonight?
I'm having, um,
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What's called a lemon cello sparkle.
It's really tasty.
It's I think it's an ounce.
I'm trying to remember exactlythe amounts I threw in there.
Like an ounce of lemon cello, Ithink a half ounce of Quantro
and then I put them in mycocktail shaker with ice.
I doubled it because I made onefor my husband too.
And then poured that in, in acoop and then poured champagne
over top of that.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So can I see?
Yeah.
Classy.
Nice.
So what are you having?
I'm doing something a little bitdifferent tonight.
I am having, and I do this everyyear and no, it's not drugs
around the holidays.
I buy this ale.
It's called delirium and it'sreally, really good.
It's a Belgium ale.
It comes in this really?
I don't know if you can see it.
(03:52):
Factual bottles are ceramic.
So,
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So do they only release it at Christmas?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I only recall seeing it around Christmas time, but as
I said, it's just for specialoccasions is when I get it and
it's normally, I only get it forone special occasion.
I get it for Christmas.
And then I take it over to myin-laws usually normally.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So it's, it's like a tradition for you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And along with a lot of Dogfish head beer,
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I have to tell you a funny story about Dogfish head.
So the other night, I can'tremember what we were eating,
but we were having something andBrian was like, Oh God, a beer
would taste really good withthis, but I don't think we have
any beer.
And I'm like, no, I thinkthere's one way in the back of
the fridge.
I think Jen left a dog fish headIPA here, like probably a year
ago before COVID.
(04:37):
So I looked in there.
It was.
And so he had, he had one ofyour dog fish heads.
He was very happy.
It was probably the 90 minuteIPA.
I think it was
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Bomb because they were bought out by, is it
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Sam Adams?
Oh, are you serious?
Yeah.
About two years ago
Speaker 3 (04:53):
They were bought out and I don't know if like any of
their recipes or anything havechanged, but it was just a
really cool, funky little placethat you could go and get a beer
in in Delaware and just truly acraft brewery.
You meet a lot of differentpeople and it's just, it was a
really fun scene, but it justkind of bummed me out that this
family owned place was, wasbought out by one of these big
(05:14):
brewers
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That is too bad.
We should get into craft beerbrewing you, me and Brian can
like drop our jobs and becomecraft beer brewers.
And we can have like a littleplace on the shore.
That would be fun.
We, you should do it.
I think this should be like oneof your projects for 2021 while
I'm writing my thousand wordessays on mental wellness, you
can write your, you can brewyour beer.
(05:37):
So this will keep us out oftrouble.
Should we get into our story forthis evening?
Yeah, let's do it.
So tonight we are going to betalking about the 27 club and
I'm guessing people out thereprobably know what that is, but
I'm just going to give a quickrundown of what that refers to.
So the 27 club refers to a groupof musicians, artists, and
(05:58):
actors and other entertainers,all of whom have died at the age
of 27.
There are people like, I mean, Ithink the Trinity are Jimi
Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and JimMorrison.
And we're actually going to betalking about all three of them
this evening, but there areothers as well that are more
recent.
So people may remember AmyWinehouse.
She died in 2011 at the age of27.
(06:20):
I think the big one for mygeneration.
And I guess that would be yourgeneration too.
Jen is her Cobain who died in1994 at the age of the age of
27.
So we're going to touch on, onmost of these folks and just
kind of look at why this is, Imean, is it just kind of a
random phenomenon if you thinkabout it, most of these people
(06:40):
lived pretty high-risklifestyles, especially the
rockers, like they were livinglike these really rock and roll
lifestyles.
Um, there was a lot of drug andalcohol use.
And so often these people mettheir ends through overdoses or,
you know, through kind ofviolent or dramatic means such
as murder or suicide or justreally weird accidents.
(07:01):
But, but most of the stuff I'mgoing to be talking about has to
do, has to do with, you know,people dying from drug, drugs,
and alcohol.
So the first wave of this reallyhappened between 1969 and 1971.
And I mentioned Jimi Hendrix andJanis Joplin.
They actually died within abouta month of each other in 1970.
(07:21):
And then Jim Morrison goes thefollowing year in 1971.
So I'm just thinking about, youknow, what it would have been
like to be living and old enoughto kind of be aware of what was
going on.
It must've been such a to havethree of these in such a short
space of time.
Must've been reallyhead-turning, you know,
interestingly it wasn't untilKurt Cobain's death in 1994,
(07:42):
that the idea of his 27 clubkind of began to congeal when
people thought of it in thatterms, at least that that's what
I've read.
There was an interview after hisdeath where Kurt Cobain's mother
said, and this is a quote fromher now he's gone and joined a
stupid club.
I told him not to join thatstupid club.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And he had lifelong issues with depression, right?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
He did.
I think that's one of thereasons why I really I've always
liked Kurt Cobain, um, and whyhis death kind of hit me because
I can relate to that.
And I mean, I think he wasalways a troubled soul, but
fame, I really think fame liteverything on fire for him in a
way that was not healthy.
He didn't, he didn't do whatwith fame.
I mentioned Amy Winehouseearlier, you know, who died in
(08:22):
2011.
I remember that really clearlytoo.
And I'm embarrassed to say likewith Amy Winehouse, I really
didn't listen to her music untilafter she died.
And then I realized like what agreat talent she was.
I really liked that her recordback to black.
And I think she only hadn't beento two records before she died,
but I could be wrong about that.
But anyway, Amy had said, um,she had expressed a fear of
dying at 27 as well.
(08:43):
So it's just that, that to me iskind of eerie.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And as you were saying before, it started with
Hendrix and when I was doingsome research about Hendrix, I
don't know what the differencebetween an instrumentalist and a
guitarist is instrumentalist, isthat when you can play a variety
of items,
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I was just going to say, I think an instrumentalist
probably refers to like,multi-instrumentalist he knew
that he could play more thanmore than one thing.
And I didn't know that about,about hundreds.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I didn't know that either.
And there was a quote from rockand roll hall of fame saying
that he was the greatestinstrumentalist in the history
of rock music.
So, wow.
Obviously he was a musicalgenius.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I think he was probably a guitar virtuoso for
sure,
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Along with like some of the other.
And I know you're going to talkmore about Cobain and Anne, I'm
going to touch on some otherpeople too, but you know,
there's always this mystery orlore surrounding their deaths.
And with Hendrix, he, um,Hendrix died in Kensington,
London on September 18th, 1970.
And so with like Cobain and alsoDavid Jones, he's a member of
(09:48):
the 27 club too.
There's been speculation that,that they really didn't either
commit suicide.
Hendrix definitely did notcommit suicide, but you know,
whether or not someone elsecontributed to their death or
caused their actual death deaths.
The interesting thing aboutHendrix and the day that he
died, once it really a lot ofthe stuff that ensued later, the
(10:08):
woman that was with him when hedied, her name was Monica Dan,
and she was the person who waswith him during his final hours.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Was she British?
Like, what was her nationality?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
She was German.
And she also had been acompetitive ice skater and her
account of what happened thatnight or the next day evidently
has changed a lot throughout theyears.
She told people that he wasstill alive when he went into
the, the ambulance and otherpeople have disputed that saying
that he wasn't alive.
He was, you know, he was alreadydead at that point, but her
(10:40):
story had changed a lotthroughout the years, but
basically he died of an overdoseof barbiturates and red wine.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Really?
Yeah.
There's different.
Oh, you could overdo it on redwine other than like having a
hangover or something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah.
Evidently, well, I guess, youknow, too much of anything will
kill you, but evidently therewas a, he had a ton of red wine
in his lungs and his hair on hisshirt.
Jesus.
And so he aspirated on, youknow, on his own vomit.
That's horrible.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Well, that must have been really, I don't mean to be
really crass, but very dramaticto see, I mean, red wine, it's
probably looking like blood andyeah,
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I wouldn't expect red wine would be one of the ways
that he would go, like I wouldthink
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, like vodka or something.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah.
Something hard.
Like that's more rock and rollthan, than red wine.
Yeah.
In my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Maybe he just had a pallet for a red wine, but
that's that?
And so he was mixing red winewith what was the other thing
though with barbituratesbarbiturates.
Okay.
In barbiturates, they keep youare those, I should know this,
this is embarrassing, but arethey uppers or downers?
They're downers.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Right.
They're downers.
So they suppress your
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You're breathing.
Okay.
Given my line of work, I shouldknow my categories, drugs, but
it's been a while since thelicensing exam.
So,
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So he took a ton of barbiturates and a lot of red
wine and he died on September18th, 1970.
And
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It seemed unintentional.
Right?
He was just,
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, it seemed unintentional.
Know there was an interestingdispute that followed with him
between two of his girlfriends.
And remember I said, MonicaDannemann was with him the night
before.
And the morning of when he, whenhe passed the morning of, after
he passed, she made basicallyher livelihood and notoriety was
(12:30):
being his fiance, according toher, they were engaged.
Okay.
But many, many people disputethat.
It doesn't really seem likethere's anything at all to
support that.
And he had another girlfriend bythe name of Kathy Etchingham and
she was seen Hendrix at seamsduring the time Dan was seeing
(12:51):
him, there was some overlapthere and she really called into
question Dan amens account of,of what happened.
She also believes that DanHerman was not number one,
definitely not engaged to him,but maybe they'd only really
been together for a few days.
Really.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
It sounds very acrimonious, you know, the
aftermath of his death.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
And they basically battled over this for, I think
it was 26 years.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Jesus like, let it go,
Speaker 3 (13:21):
That gene ham said, I guess she had a real problem
with it didn't seem like she wasmotivated by jealousy that I
could see or that, you know, mamaybe there was some of that.
There, there probably was, butit just seemed like she really
was disgusted about how DanDannon's relationship with him
as his fiance.
She was making a living off of,I see the writing books and
(13:42):
painting pictures of him andthings like that.
And I think she was just kind ofdisgusted by that in October,
2011, interview with her by theindependent, which is a British
newspaper.
The name of the article was arock legend unto herself by Mary
braid.
And what happened was, is thatDannon and edgy and him ended up
(14:02):
in court and Dannon lost like aliable lawsuit after she lost
that.
She died by suicide really a fewdays later.
So when was this?
How long ago was this?
I think the Danna man probablydied in 96.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think really sad.
Gosh, it seems like she, likeher whole existence was kind of
staked on being, you know, hisgirlfriend and his last days or
something.
And
Speaker 3 (14:29):
She couldn't, it's funny that you, that you bring
that up because in the 2011interview with, uh, the
independent and she'd him, I'dgive this following quote of
what she said, well, this is thequote.
It says, she believes the corecase was the final blow to Dan
admin's, lifelong deception,according to ECI and ham, the
core case established once.
And for all that, she was notJimmy's girlfriend.
(14:49):
She says everything was to catchup with her.
Yeah.
And she also it's very sad.
And then Dan and one was alsomarried to, I believe he was the
guitarist for scorpions, thatheavy metal band in the
eighties.
And he was like a really, he wasa huge fan of Jimmy Hendrix too.
So it just seemed like her, herwhole life was, was based on his
(15:12):
fame.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What's what it sounds like.
Like she was kind of the groupiethat never quit until she did
exactly
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Another link to Cobain.
And then someone else is goingto talk about Zapata later.
Um, Hendrix was born in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah.
When you told me that recently Iwas really surprised.
I had no idea that Jimi Hendrixwas from SIA.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
There's someone else that I want to talk about that I
don't think many people know ofunless you were into the music
scene in Seattle.
So that's a link to, is therewas a singer.
She was up and coming.
She was the lead singer of aband called the guts.
And I think they formed in thelate eighties, they were mostly
punk, but also in the grungescene.
(15:52):
And with Zapata, she Dawn andJuly 7th, 1993, she was an
extremely popular artist.
Her band was really up andcoming and she had left a music
venue called the comment.
She was found dead.
Like I said, near theintersection.
I have no idea where this wouldbe 24th Avenue, South and South
Washington street at around 3:30AM.
(16:15):
And she had been sexuallyassaulted and beaten and
strangled.
And they didn't find the personwho had done it for about 10
years.
They had no idea who did it andthey took some DNA and they
that's how they were able tofind out that this person had,
had murdered her.
But they think that sheencountered her attacker around
(16:35):
2:15 AM.
And this might be where I heardabout her is that she was
featured or her case wasfeatured in an episode of
forensic files.
The name of that episode was theday the music died.
No.
And so that was, um, it wasaired November 14th, 2007 and
evidently, and this is it'slike, what are, what are the
(16:56):
odds on this too?
Is that her body wasn'tinitially identified?
Cause she had no identificationon her when she was found.
But in the episode of forensicfiles, evidently she was
identified after the medicalexaminer who is a fan of the
band and actually bender theirconcert.
He recognized her,
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Oh my God, that's a crazy detail.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That is a crazy detail.
And according to him, you know,he said, if she, even if she
hadn't been strangled that shewould have died from her
internal injuries because shehad been beaten that badly.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's horrible.
Now the person who murdered her,I know they found this person 10
years later, was it a random actof violence or was this, you
know, a fan who was obsessedwith her?
And yeah,
Speaker 3 (17:38):
It was random.
He was, um, he was a cab driverand I think he just, he must've
just happened upon her
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Attacked her that's awful
Speaker 3 (17:46):
During the time that they didn't know who killer was
actually Nirvana and Pearl jam,they were part of this benefit
to raise money or to, you know,draw awareness to try to find
out, you know, who, who killedher.
Well, that's really cool.
So it's just weird that she'sconnected with Cobain and then
Seattle is connected, you know,it was born in Seattle and I
(18:09):
just think that's unusual.
So yeah, just a lot of, youknow, unusual things about me as
a Pata, I've gone back, I'velistened to some of her music,
I've watched some performancevideos and just seemed like she
was very talented, very dynamic.
And it was very young.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I like the idea that, you know, I don't think there
were as many, certainly thereweren't as many female grunge
rockers as there were men and Ithink to be a woman in that
scene and that really tooksomething to, to do that.
So yeah, that makes her reallycool.
So that's, that's reallyinteresting.
I'm going to have to listen tothe music of me as a Potter.
She sounds like she was a reallycool, cool young woman.
(18:47):
And I'm sorry that she, youknow, that she died in the way
she did.
That's just reallyheartbreaking.
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to talk for abit about, um, Janis Joplin, who
I, I'm not a giant fan of JanisJoplin's music.
Like I like me and Bobby McGeeand, um, you know, some of her
songs, but I couldn't put it onfor hours and jam to it.
I think it's, it's a littleharsh for me or a little like a
(19:11):
lot of screaming and a lot of, Iguess I, I go from melody more.
I'm really making myself soundlike an old fuddy-duddy, but
there it is.
But, but I admire Janis Joplinthe person very much because I
think she, she just gave offthis air of self-sufficiency and
of self-confidence really, but Ithink she actually really
(19:32):
struggled with, withself-confidence and with
self-esteem.
So I'm going to talk about thatin a minute, but she died, um,
in a lot of what I'm going to bementioning here is from a
documentary called the lasthours of Janice Joplin.
Um, it's from season two and itcame out in 2016.
So Janice Joplin, everybodyknows this, but just mentioned
it.
She was really considered thefirst female superstar of rock
(19:53):
and she could, she could rock itas hard as any boy could and
probably harder.
And she was, um, an amazingperson.
She was known for a great senseof humor.
She had tons of tattoos and sheapparently had a legendary
libido both from men and women.
So I love that Janis Joplin wasbisexual.
I also read that she wasdescribed as very needy.
So her relationships were reallyintense.
(20:16):
Um, and she had, I think shealways felt like an outcast
really from the earliest, fromher earliest years, she was born
and raised in Texas.
And you know, it was just verydifferent from her family.
I don't know a lot about herupbringing, but one thing I read
about her just really broke myheart.
And that was when she went awayto college.
She went to the university ofTexas at Austin and she's like
(20:36):
walking down the halls andhappens to look at this bulletin
board and reads this flyer thatsays that she has been voted the
ugliest man on campus.
And that, that just killed mebecause I think every woman can
imagine what that would feellike, you know?
And she, she had already had alot of body, you know, body
(20:56):
image issues.
And so I think this is somethingthat she carried with her
Speaker 4 (21:00):
For, for a long time, you know, and
Speaker 1 (21:03):
She was a very well known user of drugs and alcohol.
And I wonder how much of that,that wound or that sort of self
hatred of, of herself and herbody contributed to her drug and
alcohol use.
And I don't, I don't mean tolike put her in on the
therapist's couch, but, but itjust makes you wonder, I mean,
that would be a hard thing toforget would not, when that
really stick with you.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh yeah.
So horrendous thing still
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Joplin was found dead in her Hollywood apartment.
And a lot of these, I noticed alot of these rockers would live
in hotels.
So their apartments wouldactually be in a hotel.
And hers was at the famouslandmark hotel in LA.
She died in room one Oh five.
And when I, I came acrosssomething on the internet that
said that the hotel is still inoperation and that you can
(21:47):
actually visit her room.
You can stay in her room roomone Oh five and it's become
something of a shrine.
So they have a plaque in thecloset that says, you know,
Janice Joplin died here on suchand such a date and the fan who
stay there, decorate the walls.
It's just filled with notes anddrawings and, and all of these,
um, these tributes to, to Janiceis so, you know, in terms of, of
(22:08):
what contributed to her death,she was discovered to have been
drinking on the night she died.
She was drinking.
She went out for a drink at thisbar called Barney's Beanery,
which was a big dive bar.
And it was, it was reallypopular with, um, rock
musicians.
Jim Morrison would go there too.
So she was drinking there andher drink of choice was Southern
(22:29):
comfort, which I read somethingrecently about Southern comfort.
I thought it was a whiskey, butapparently it's also in another
category.
And I can't remember what it is.
I think I read that it'sconsidered a, liqour like a
peach liqour, which reallysurprised me.
Yeah.
I think it's like somehowinfused with peaches.
Um, do you want me
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Look it up?
Yeah.
I'm just curious.
I would not think of it as ofthe core
Speaker 1 (22:53):
God, there's actually a Janice Joplin Southern
comfort.
So it's one of the world's mostfamous LaCores it's made with
American grain spirits.
Impeaches so yeah.
You know, I might give it a tryagain.
I think I had some in college,but, um, but there's some really
great sounding drinks likeSouthern comfort peach smash and
(23:14):
it has champagne and coconuts.
I mean, that sounds
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Hello.
Good.
That actually does sound good.
I know
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Maybe, maybe we're going to have to try some
Southern comfort in honor ofJanice Joplin, but anyway, so
Janice Joplin worked herSouthern comfort angle because
she said to the people who madeSouthern comfort, like, Hey, you
know, you know, I drink yourdrink.
Like that's all I drink.
If you buy me a for a coat andhat, I will just, you know, I
will represent your drinkwherever I go.
(23:40):
So they did, they bought herthis amazing fur coat and you
can see pictures of her onlineand her and her friends.
I think
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I've seen that before, but I didn't know that
that's what the connection was.
Was it like a big white frame?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I think it was, yeah, I think it was in, in, you know,
you might see her holding thebottle and everything.
So she was probably the bestknown drinker of Southern
comfort.
She would drink on stage.
Um, I mean she was a drinker andthey did find when they did her
autopsy that she had a fattyliver.
So, you know, if she hadn't diedthe way she died at 27, it's
kind of makes you wonder howlong she would have lived
(24:13):
anyway.
Or she would have, you know,her, I think she would have
encountered a lot of, a lot ofhealth problems at the time of
her death.
She has, was actually launchingout on her own, trying to, to go
solo rather than I forget thename of her band.
But she had been with her bandbefore that, from what I read
and from what I watched herband, her band mates were really
centering for her.
Like they kept her on solidground.
(24:35):
And so when she went solo, itwas a lot harder for her to just
cope with life.
And I think she was drinking alot more the night that she
died, they found some pills inher room that were marked Lily
one 72.
And the pathologist on the showsaid that that, that match no
drug that he knew of, but hesuspected it was probably
methadone.
And, you know, methadone is thedrug that you take.
(24:56):
Um, well now it's used as atreatment for people who are
recovering from heroin addictionbecause it, it gives you forget
exactly what it does, but itkind of gives you, it keeps you
from going through thoseterrible withdrawal symptoms of
heroin addiction without givingyou the high, I think is what it
does.
So it keeps you from gettingdope, sick in other words.
So they found these pills in herroom, but there was none in her
system.
(25:16):
So she, she hadn't ODed on that.
She did have some needle marksin her arm, but they look kind
of old.
Like they suspected they weremaybe from, I don't know, like
three weeks ago, something likethat.
And in terms of her heroinaddiction, she had started
probably back in 1967.
So about three years earlier.
And she had some close callsbefore her actual death.
So between 1968 and 69, sheoverdosed on heroin six times.
(25:41):
So she was kind of, yeah, Imean, that's, that's like a lot
of, that's a lot of overdoses.
You kind of feel like the, theclock was really ticking on her.
It was just a matter of time.
And that breaks my heart again,because I think she seems to me,
even though I love herappearance of self-confidence, I
get a sense of vulnerabilityfrom her too.
And you just want to kind ofkeep her safe, you know, you
just want to keep her away fromall of that.
(26:02):
And it seems like
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Heroin is just such a, such an addictive drug.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I would be terrified to try it even once.
Cause I've heard, I've read thatsometimes it's just that one
high and people are addictedfrom the get-go, you know,
apparently there's a feelingthat it's like nothing else on
earth, but I've also read thatyou never know high as ever as
good as your first high and thatyou're always chasing, chasing
that, you know, and you cannever quite get it.
(26:28):
It just seems like a horribleway to live.
Just seems evil.
Like if a substance can be evil,it just seems like heroin is
truly evil.
There's
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Famous thread on Reddit and you know, I can get
lost and read it, but yes youcan.
One of the famous threads isabout a who's posting.
And he said that he just wantedto try heroin for the first
time.
And then, you know, he wasreporting back and then it just,
he totally decompensated andbecame a food addict for years.
(26:56):
And of course this is just hisaccount.
I mean, it could be anybodymaking something up, but you
know, even a friend can tell youa lie, but that's one of the
most, one of the most, I guess,infamous threads on Reddit was,
was about that.
And this guy becoming, you know,deciding he's just going to do
it once and then just to seewhat it's like, and then he
keeps going back and then heturns into a, as a full fledged
(27:18):
addiction.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, it's so scary.
It makes you wonder, I mean,there's this curious part of me
that makes me wonder what doesthat, what does that highlight
part people describe it as asense of warmth kind of coursing
through your veins, like anultimate peace, but yeah, but it
makes you, I don't know.
I have a lot of empathy forpeople who do use, you know, and
who gets sucked into thatthrough, um, over, over, um,
prescription of opioids, youknow, and God knows, like
(27:42):
there's such a, um, such anepidemic of opioid addiction, um
, especially in Appalachia andpeople get into it in such, you
know, innocent ways.
And then, you know, you'redancing with the devil before,
you know, it, it's just awful.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
There's a song off the most recent Brandi Carlile
album and it's called sugartooth.
And it's about this guy whodeveloped an addiction.
And basically he was just takingthe pills as they were
prescribed and just how youknow, it ruined his life and it
led to his death.
It's a re it's a really goodsong.
Very sad.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I haven't heard that one.
We're both huge Brandi Carlilefans.
See you.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
We were watching something here.
I can't remember.
It was narrated by LawrenceO'Donnell and it was about the
opioid abuse and addiction.
And in Appalachia, I've watcheda few things on that,
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Watching that too.
I wonder if we were watchingthat at the same time, it was on
the other night.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
One of the areas they were talking about was
Pennington gap.
Virginia was one place.
And then I know West Virginia.
I mean,
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, they were talking about Ronceverte, which
I, when I go home to visit myfamily, I go right past the exit
for[inaudible].
I think it's, it's not far fromLewisburg.
In fact, they showed this onescene, you know, like they had
taken it from, what am I tryingan aerial scene?
And I was like, I think that'sinterstate 64.
You know, I've driven thatinterstate like a million times,
(29:02):
but yeah, it's weird to thinkthat like you, you drive through
there and you know, people areliving.
I mean, I'm sure within a fewmiles of each of us, within a
mile of each of us, people areliving lives with desperation
because of this stuff.
It's really heartbreaking.
And you know, there's that sensewhen I think about Janis Joplin,
like I just want to protect her.
Of course I wasn't even bornwhen she died, but she did meet
(29:23):
this guy.
His name was David Niehaus andshe met him when she was, I
guess, vacationing in Rio deJaneiro.
And he seemed like alegitimately good guy.
He was not associated with themusic business.
He was just an ordinary Joe.
And he prem everything.
I, you know, I watched, heseemed to really love her and he
did help her kick the, so shegot off heroin for some time.
(29:43):
I'm not exactly sure how long,but the relationship,
unfortunately didn't last.
She had a good friend who wasalso, they were lovers and then
they shot up together.
And so he comes home, I think,from a ski trip and find some in
bed together they're asleep.
And, uh, you know, he leaves herafter that because he, he just
feels like, you know, she'snever going to get clean and you
know, she's cheating on him andthings like that, but he seemed
(30:05):
like he was a benign more than abenign influence in her life and
sad to me that that relationshipended.
But, you know, she, she kind ofcycled through addiction as, as
most people who are addicted toheroin or other drugs do.
And when they did the autopsy,they did find that there was
morphine in both her, her bloodand her bile.
And that's what heroin turnsinto when it enters your enters
(30:27):
your system.
It turns into morphine and theydiscovered that what she had
used that night.
So just to back up a little bit,she typically got her drugs from
the same person and this dealerwould have a chemist.
He had a chemist, I guess, onthe payroll who would test the
drugs and make sure they were,they were clean and there was
nothing in there that was gonnaharm more than more than they
(30:48):
would anyway, that was going tokill you.
But this time the chemist was onvacation for a week.
So her, her heroin wasn't vettedby this chemist.
And so she used it.
Most heroin I read is likearound like five to 7% pure, the
heroin she used that night, itwas around 50% pure,
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Which was, yeah, no one would survive
Speaker 1 (31:08):
That.
Yeah.
Like that's, that's so strong.
And then, you know, she'd alsobeen abstinent recently.
I think her last, you know, theywere suspecting that her last
use before that night wasprobably about three weeks ago
and she was trying to get off ofit.
So it was just the perfectstorm, you know?
So her, her death was from anaccidental overdose of pure
heroin.
It's really sad.
But one of the quotes I, I foundreally intriguing from, from
(31:32):
Joplin.
She said, maybe I won't last aslong as other singers, but I
think you can destroy today byworrying about tomorrow.
You know?
And I agree with that sentimentbecause God knows I'm a warrior,
I'm ink, I'm in riddled withanxieties of every kind.
And I'm always worrying abouttomorrow and the next day and
the day after that.
And, you know, it seemed likeshe, she wanted to be free from
(31:52):
that.
And maybe drugs helped her dothat.
But, but I do think she had thislive for a moment kind of
attitude, you know, living forthe moment, which I admire, but
it didn't, you know, in the end,it, she flamed out too early.
Unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I read where I read, where she hit Jim Morrison over
the head with a bottle ofSouthern comfort.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Hope she did.
Cause he I'm going to talk abouthim next year.
Um, I think he was a bit of aDick.
I'm sorry to offend anyone outthere.
Who's a big Jim Morrison fan,but from things, some things I
read about him
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Per the story I read is that he just wouldn't take no
for an answer anyway.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, he definitely, he needed to have more than his
head knocked off with a bottleof Southern comfort.
Um, yeah.
Jim Morrison, are you a fan bythe way, Jim
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Morrison now, to be honest with you, I'm not a huge
seventies music fan that'sright.
It makes you depressed.
Doesn't it?
I just think it's a downer
Speaker 1 (32:45):
More of like, I like say like the Laurel Canyon, you
know, seventies music like LindaRonstadt and Jackson Brown,
those, those people, but not somuch into the seventies rock.
I mean, I think the doors hadsome, they had some really good
songs, but he's, he's not one ofmy faves, but he, you know,
regardless, regardless of whatyou and I think he was regarded
as one of the most iconicrockers of all time.
(33:07):
And some people truly think hewas, you know, a great, he was
one of the greatest.
Um, and he certainly representedthis, this gender gap and the
counterculture.
And he was, I think he was avery self stylized kind of
person.
Like he made, maybe it was himor maybe it was his handlers or
his agents, but he kind of woulddevelop these persona around
himself.
(33:27):
One of them was the lizard King.
And from what I read, that namecame into being in part because
of the way he moved.
He would almost kind of slitheron stage.
But, but the thing that he, hewas most interested in was
poetry.
And he really wanted to bethought of as a poet, before
being thought of as a rocker,um, in some of his concerts and
songs and things, he would doimprovised, spoken word poetry.
(33:49):
Now I have not spent a lot oftime with the poetry of Jim
Morrison, but something tells melike, he probably thought I'm
probably going to get reamed forthis.
But something tells me, heprobably thought he was a better
poet than he actually was.
I don't know.
I'm just saying, I think heprobably fancied himself more of
a poet than, than he really was.
I'm sorry, Jim.
Sorry, but he was a notoriousdrinker.
(34:10):
So he drank, um, just like in astrapline drank.
He, he drank from like the 1960son and I think alcohol was
really his drug of choice.
It's, it's what he used most.
Um, when he died, he died July3rd, 1971.
And he died in Paris.
He had been living in Paris fora few months.
He had moved there with him.
(34:31):
Well, he'd moved there with hisgirlfriend, Pamela Corson.
And it seems like he went toParis for a couple of reasons.
One of them was, he was justreally sick and tired of being a
rock and roll hero.
I think he wanted to escape someof that fame.
You know, you think about whenwe talk about Cobain and how
fame was really hard on him.
I think fame was hard on JimMorrison as well, even though he
(34:51):
quartered it in a lot of ways,but he wanted to live, I think,
a slower paced lifestyle.
The other reason I, I cameacross was that he was trying to
get away from some legaltroubles in the United States.
So the doors had had thisconcert in Miami.
I can't remember exactly the day, but maybe it was a few months
before he, before he left forParis.
(35:12):
And it was just pureunadulterated craziness.
So like half the audience islike ripping their clothes off.
They're naked people everywhere.
And it was said that JimMorrison like whipped out his
Dick on stage and exposedhimself.
Now I saw a documentary whereone band mate said, absolutely
not like he did not do that.
(35:33):
He took off his shirt, you know,and he was provocative, but he
did not expose himself.
But other people say that hedid.
So anyway, he was, they were, Ithink they were charged with
public and decency and he was anhonor and FBI watch list.
Um, apparently the FBIconsidered him to be a menace to
society, which kind of cracks meup.
It's like this old 1950s notionof like the kids are going to be
(35:56):
just sit, like he was going tohave a bad influence on young
people.
So some people say that he wentto Paris to kind of get to get
away from all of these legaltroubles.
He was having back in theStates, according to this, um,
this documentary that I watched,it sounds to me like it seemed
to me like Jim Morrison had amost excellent last day.
(36:16):
I mean, if this was going to bemy last day, I could think of
worst days.
So he like first, well, thefirst thing is his health wasn't
too great.
Like he had gained a lot ofweight.
I'm not sure if he startedgaining weight before he went to
Paris or once he got there, buthe put on some weight and he was
having, I think in, when youlook at it afterwards, it seemed
like he was having some heartissues, maybe some congestive
heart failure and things likethat.
(36:38):
Cause he would have a hard timewalking up the staircase.
And here was a guy who had hadlike, you know, by all accounts,
like a great body who was veryfit.
And you know, he was considereda sex God by most people.
But a lot of women thought hewas like the sexiest man they'd
ever seen in their lives.
So, you know, he was dealingwith some health issues, but the
day of his death, he had thisfriend, his name was Allen.
He was a French guy and theywent out, they had lunch, like
(37:00):
they drank, um, they had a lotof beers.
Apparently Jim stopped off inthe shop and bought a star of
David necklace for hisgirlfriend.
And I think they went to, theywent to like a film, film shop
as well.
And one interesting tidbit aboutJim Morrison and this I like
about him.
He went to UCLA and studiedfilm.
So he had his, he had hisbachelor's in, um, like film
(37:22):
history or something.
His family was really aboutthat.
And speaking of his family, bythe time of his death, I don't
think he'd been in contact withhis parents for like two or
three years.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
It was a really, really bad relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It was like a military family and his dad
really wanted one thing for him.
And that was for him to go intothe military.
And Jim wanted none of that.
So I think when he went to filmschool, that was like the last
straw.
I can't imagine what theythought when he became a
rockstar.
They were probably completelyscandalized.
But anyway, so he hangs out witha LAN and then, um, they go back
to Jim's apartment that hesharing with Pamela and Jim kind
(37:58):
of begs a land.
Like, please don't go, don't go,let's go out and have another
drink.
So they do, they have anotherdrink.
And then later LN leaves anddoes his thing.
And Jim hooks up with Pamela andthey, I think they also go
drinking a bit and then theydecide to go to the movies.
Um, cause you know, he was a bigfilm buff.
So they go back to theirapartment and this makes me
laugh a little bit.
(38:19):
They watch home movies of theirvacations play old door's
records, but, and then they doheroin together and they're, you
know, they're doing quite a bitof heroin.
And so they're both really,really high and he's not feeling
well.
So Pam, his girlfriend wants tocall the doctor, but he he's
refusing.
He's like, no, you know, it'sfine.
Go back to bed.
(38:39):
And I guess she was in thebedroom and he was sleeping out
on the couch.
So at some point he starts tohave trouble breathing.
And I guess he figures like, letme get in the bathtub, let me
get into some warm water.
Maybe that'll help me sort ofsober up a little bit.
And I guess there are some likefolk remedies where people think
that getting in a cold or a warmbath is going to help you sober
up from heroin more quickly, butdon't do that because apparently
(39:03):
it does not work.
So he, he gets in the tub and hestarts throwing up blood and she
gets up, I guess she hears himand he tells her go back to bed.
So she goes back to bed.
I don't understand this.
I would think that like if, ifmy husband were throwing up
blood in the bathtub and haddone all this heroin, I'd be
calling nine one one.
I don't know what she'sthinking.
He could have done this athousand times before.
(39:24):
And that's probably true.
And it's funny that you say thatbecause when she finally does
get up, you know, the last timearound 6:00 AM, she notices that
his nose and his mouth arecrusted with blood and she's
trying to wake him up, but he'snot responding.
And so she actually thinks he'sjoking because apparently Jim
Morrison would pull this stuntquite often where he would play
dead.
(39:44):
And so she thinks he's playingdead after I know bad idea.
Right.
And it's just so cruel, likewhat a cruel thing to do.
She doesn't know her French.
Isn't good enough to call anambulance.
So she calls his friend, Ellen,Renee and Renee calls in before,
you know, before they know it.
Um, paramedics are there.
I think firefighters were firston the scene and they get'em out
(40:04):
of the bathtub.
And at first they think he'smaybe still alive because his
body feels warm, but the bathwater was still kind of half
warm kind of tepid.
Once they get him out, theyrealize he's cold.
There's no pulse.
And so no he's died.
Um, his death certificate lists,his cause of death is heart
failure.
Um, and there was no autopsydone, which I find kind of
surprising.
I mean, Janis Joplin had anautopsy done.
(40:26):
Maybe, maybe customs weredifferent in France than they
were in the U S that's that'sall I can think.
So Jim Morrison was buried inParis.
Um, he's buried in this famouscemetery called parallel shows
where there are a lot ofnotables buried, like Oscar
Wilde, Frederick Chapin.
I think George sand, thenovelist is buried there.
(40:47):
I could be mistaken about that,but just a lot of, a lot of
famous people.
It's a beautiful cemetery.
So when I was in France, I spentpretty much a day there just
visiting all of the graves.
And the summer before I went toFrance, I worked in this crappy
restaurant called JohnnyAppleseed.
I was a hostess.
It was like a, it was like aCracker barrel knockoff.
Um, but there was this girl whoworked there.
(41:09):
I think she worked back in thekitchen and she was obsessed
with Jim Morrison.
So I said, well, you know, I'mgoing to France, like, you know,
in a couple of months and youknow, I'm planning to go to
where, you know, the cemeterywhere he's buried.
Like, do you want me to takeanything?
And she's like, Oh my God, wouldyou?
And so she gives me this piecenecklace, it's like the silver
necklace.
It has like the peace symbol,like a pendant.
(41:30):
And then she, um, she wrote thisprivate note to Jim Morrison,
which she had all sealed up andI didn't open it.
So I laid those things on hisgrave for her, but his grave was
just completely covered withstuff, you know?
Cause all these people go andpay homage and on his
gravestone.
So there were a couple of gravemarkers that were stolen or
defaced over the years.
But in 1990, his dad, you knowwho I mentioned, he had a
(41:52):
terrible relationship with hisdad, but his dad placed a new
gravestone and it had aninscription in Greek that reads
true to his own spirit.
Um, another translation isaccording to his own demons.
So I liked that.
I liked those duelingtranslations because one sounds
very nice.
And one sounds kind of like, youknow, he was a really up guy,
but anyway, that's the story ofJim Morrison.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
It just seems like 27 is such a transitional time in
your life.
Even more so than like 25 or Ithink when you're at 27, people
start to settle down more.
You're on your way to that, youknow, and kind of thinking, and
I think even more and more aboutyour future, you're kind of
realizing, okay, well I'm notgoing to be in my twenties
forever and, and thirties justright around the corner.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah.
It's that time when you'resettling down and you're kind of
getting really getting into yourcareer and making some, some
strides.
And so yeah, I think to be, tohave that cut short is such a,
such a really tragic thing whenyou're just really getting
started.
There is a quick poem.
I just wanted to share with youbecause I think it really gets
at the theme that we've talkedabout tonight.
It's called first fig it's bypoet.
(42:56):
I really liked named Edna St.
Vincent Millay.
And I believe she wrote this in1920, so it's pretty old, but it
goes, my candle burns at bothends.
It will not last the night, butall my foes and all my friends,
it gives a lovely light.
I like that.
Yeah.
I think that really gets it ortalking about there's something
like there's loss, but there'salso, there's something to be
(43:18):
said about that greatillumination of really burning
your candle at both ends.
You know?
So maybe what these, these soulslacked in longevity, they made
up for an intensity, you know?
So maybe that's the trade-off soshall we toast?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yes, we should toast.
I think we should.
I don't know how appropriatethat is considering, but
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, I mean, I think that we're toasting to people
who maybe go out to theirjourneys on too soon, but what
they got there and that's wherewe're all going.
I mean, not to be superdepressing, but we're all here's
to the journey.
Maybe that's what we should toesto whatever it looks like,
whatever shape it takes orhowever long it lasts.
Just I can drink to that.
(44:00):
Making the most of it to thejourney is my friend.
Cheers.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
[inaudible].
Does genius come with an early expiration date,
whether it be a curse or theconsequences of fast living,
some of the world's greatesttalents have flamed out at a
young age tonight, we considerthe so-called 27 club and a few
of its best known members.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Jen, how are you?
I'm
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Doing well.
How are you, Jen?
I'm recovering
Speaker 3 (00:26):
From break or recovering from the holidays.
I think I'm a bit hung over.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I feel exactly the same way kind of in that
transitional period where you'retrying to go from like the most
important decision of your dayis what to have for breakfast
back to real life.
That's where I'm at.
Yeah, me too.
I feel very out of sorts duringtransitions like that.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Uh, I've been having a lot of crazy dreams.
Like last night I dreamt thatthe Iranian government was
trying to assassinate me.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You should run, you should write these dreams down
and write political thrillers orsomething.
That's a crazy dream.
I think
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Trying to take me out before the aliens come and
harvest my eggs.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That must be it.
That's too crazy.
That was a crazy dream where youreally scared in the dream,
like, did you wake up freakedout?
I was, but I can't remember thespecifics.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I don't even know where that even came into being.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But that's, that's a crazy dream.
I actually, it's funny.
You said that you had crazydreams because I've been getting
my days and nights mixed up alot during break.
And um, so I've been, the resultis that I'm sleeping a lot
during the day.
And I had some wacko dreamstoday and you were actually in
one of them.
So I was back in college andlike my husband and I were
together, but I guess we weredating.
(01:41):
I don't think we were marriedyet, but we were like, we were
in this huge fight and we haddifferent dorm rooms.
And so finally we go to talk andhe's like, well, I've just been
laying here.
Talk, talking about our problemswith Jen.
And I'm like, what?
I was.
Cause I'm like, she's my bestfriend.
You can go to her about ourproblems first.
And like, I was trying to callyou on this little cell phone
(02:03):
from like 2003.
And like, I couldn't get yournumber.
I couldn't get anybody's number.
And then there was this groupthat was like, I don't know.
They thought I had mental healthissues and wanted me to join it.
And like their whole thing abouthow to deal with it was like you
do crafts and you had to likewrite like 100 or like one, 1000
word essays about like differentsubjects.
(02:23):
Apparently if you were busyenough, like you would not be
your mental illness would not.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
They needed a new president is what it sounded
like.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And I had swirling water dreams.
Do you ever have those?
Those are my stress dreams.
Oh my God.
It's always this swirling Brownwater that you don't know what's
in the water.
Like it could be anything andlike cliff.
Well it's for me, it is likewhen I have those dreams, I know
that I'm mentally drafted up andtake care of myself.
So I had one of those as well.
(02:54):
Not, not a good afternoon sleep,but we'll get through it.
We'll get through thesetransitions is transitional time
and everybody else will too.
Transitions are hard, man.
They're hard.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So what are you having to drink tonight?
I'm having, um,
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What's called a lemon cello sparkle.
It's really tasty.
It's I think it's an ounce.
I'm trying to remember exactlythe amounts I threw in there.
Like an ounce of lemon cello, Ithink a half ounce of Quantro
and then I put them in mycocktail shaker with ice.
I doubled it because I made onefor my husband too.
And then poured that in, in acoop and then poured champagne
over top of that.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So can I see?
Yeah.
Classy.
Nice.
So what are you having?
I'm doing something a little bitdifferent tonight.
I am having, and I do this everyyear and no, it's not drugs
around the holidays.
I buy this ale.
It's called delirium and it'sreally, really good.
It's a Belgium ale.
It comes in this really?
I don't know if you can see it.
(03:52):
Factual bottles are ceramic.
So,
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So do they only release it at Christmas?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I only recall seeing it around Christmas time, but as
I said, it's just for specialoccasions is when I get it and
it's normally, I only get it forone special occasion.
I get it for Christmas.
And then I take it over to myin-laws usually normally.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So it's, it's like a tradition for you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And along with a lot of Dogfish head beer,
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I have to tell you a funny story about Dogfish head.
So the other night, I can'tremember what we were eating,
but we were having something andBrian was like, Oh God, a beer
would taste really good withthis, but I don't think we have
any beer.
And I'm like, no, I thinkthere's one way in the back of
the fridge.
I think Jen left a dog fish headIPA here, like probably a year
ago before COVID.
(04:37):
So I looked in there.
It was.
And so he had, he had one ofyour dog fish heads.
He was very happy.
It was probably the 90 minuteIPA.
I think it was
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Bomb because they were bought out by, is it
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Sam Adams?
Oh, are you serious?
Yeah.
About two years ago
Speaker 3 (04:53):
They were bought out and I don't know if like any of
their recipes or anything havechanged, but it was just a
really cool, funky little placethat you could go and get a beer
in in Delaware and just truly acraft brewery.
You meet a lot of differentpeople and it's just, it was a
really fun scene, but it justkind of bummed me out that this
family owned place was, wasbought out by one of these big
(05:14):
brewers
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That is too bad.
We should get into craft beerbrewing you, me and Brian can
like drop our jobs and becomecraft beer brewers.
And we can have like a littleplace on the shore.
That would be fun.
We, you should do it.
I think this should be like oneof your projects for 2021 while
I'm writing my thousand wordessays on mental wellness, you
can write your, you can brewyour beer.
(05:37):
So this will keep us out oftrouble.
Should we get into our story forthis evening?
Yeah, let's do it.
So tonight we are going to betalking about the 27 club and
I'm guessing people out thereprobably know what that is, but
I'm just going to give a quickrundown of what that refers to.
So the 27 club refers to a groupof musicians, artists, and
(05:58):
actors and other entertainers,all of whom have died at the age
of 27.
There are people like, I mean, Ithink the Trinity are Jimi
Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and JimMorrison.
And we're actually going to betalking about all three of them
this evening, but there areothers as well that are more
recent.
So people may remember AmyWinehouse.
She died in 2011 at the age of27.
(06:20):
I think the big one for mygeneration.
And I guess that would be yourgeneration too.
Jen is her Cobain who died in1994 at the age of the age of
27.
So we're going to touch on, onmost of these folks and just
kind of look at why this is, Imean, is it just kind of a
random phenomenon if you thinkabout it, most of these people
(06:40):
lived pretty high-risklifestyles, especially the
rockers, like they were livinglike these really rock and roll
lifestyles.
Um, there was a lot of drug andalcohol use.
And so often these people mettheir ends through overdoses or,
you know, through kind ofviolent or dramatic means such
as murder or suicide or justreally weird accidents.
(07:01):
But, but most of the stuff I'mgoing to be talking about has to
do, has to do with, you know,people dying from drug, drugs,
and alcohol.
So the first wave of this reallyhappened between 1969 and 1971.
And I mentioned Jimi Hendrix andJanis Joplin.
They actually died within abouta month of each other in 1970.
(07:21):
And then Jim Morrison goes thefollowing year in 1971.
So I'm just thinking about, youknow, what it would have been
like to be living and old enoughto kind of be aware of what was
going on.
It must've been such a to havethree of these in such a short
space of time.
Must've been reallyhead-turning, you know,
interestingly it wasn't untilKurt Cobain's death in 1994,
(07:42):
that the idea of his 27 clubkind of began to congeal when
people thought of it in thatterms, at least that that's what
I've read.
There was an interview after hisdeath where Kurt Cobain's mother
said, and this is a quote fromher now he's gone and joined a
stupid club.
I told him not to join thatstupid club.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
And he had lifelong issues with depression, right?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
He did.
I think that's one of thereasons why I really I've always
liked Kurt Cobain, um, and whyhis death kind of hit me because
I can relate to that.
And I mean, I think he wasalways a troubled soul, but
fame, I really think fame liteverything on fire for him in a
way that was not healthy.
He didn't, he didn't do whatwith fame.
I mentioned Amy Winehouseearlier, you know, who died in
(08:22):
2011.
I remember that really clearlytoo.
And I'm embarrassed to say likewith Amy Winehouse, I really
didn't listen to her music untilafter she died.
And then I realized like what agreat talent she was.
I really liked that her recordback to black.
And I think she only hadn't beento two records before she died,
but I could be wrong about that.
But anyway, Amy had said, um,she had expressed a fear of
dying at 27 as well.
(08:43):
So it's just that, that to me iskind of eerie.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And as you were saying before, it started with
Hendrix and when I was doingsome research about Hendrix, I
don't know what the differencebetween an instrumentalist and a
guitarist is instrumentalist, isthat when you can play a variety
of items,
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I was just going to say, I think an instrumentalist
probably refers to like,multi-instrumentalist he knew
that he could play more thanmore than one thing.
And I didn't know that about,about hundreds.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I didn't know that either.
And there was a quote from rockand roll hall of fame saying
that he was the greatestinstrumentalist in the history
of rock music.
So, wow.
Obviously he was a musicalgenius.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I think he was probably a guitar virtuoso for
sure,
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Along with like some of the other.
And I know you're going to talkmore about Cobain and Anne, I'm
going to touch on some otherpeople too, but you know,
there's always this mystery orlore surrounding their deaths.
And with Hendrix, he, um,Hendrix died in Kensington,
London on September 18th, 1970.
And so with like Cobain and alsoDavid Jones, he's a member of
(09:48):
the 27 club too.
There's been speculation that,that they really didn't either
commit suicide.
Hendrix definitely did notcommit suicide, but you know,
whether or not someone elsecontributed to their death or
caused their actual death deaths.
The interesting thing aboutHendrix and the day that he
died, once it really a lot ofthe stuff that ensued later, the
(10:08):
woman that was with him when hedied, her name was Monica Dan,
and she was the person who waswith him during his final hours.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Was she British?
Like, what was her nationality?
I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
She was German.
And she also had been acompetitive ice skater and her
account of what happened thatnight or the next day evidently
has changed a lot throughout theyears.
She told people that he wasstill alive when he went into
the, the ambulance and otherpeople have disputed that saying
that he wasn't alive.
He was, you know, he was alreadydead at that point, but her
(10:40):
story had changed a lotthroughout the years, but
basically he died of an overdoseof barbiturates and red wine.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Really?
Yeah.
There's different.
Oh, you could overdo it on redwine other than like having a
hangover or something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah.
Evidently, well, I guess, youknow, too much of anything will
kill you, but evidently therewas a, he had a ton of red wine
in his lungs and his hair on hisshirt.
Jesus.
And so he aspirated on, youknow, on his own vomit.
That's horrible.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Well, that must have been really, I don't mean to be
really crass, but very dramaticto see, I mean, red wine, it's
probably looking like blood andyeah,
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I wouldn't expect red wine would be one of the ways
that he would go, like I wouldthink
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, like vodka or something.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah.
Something hard.
Like that's more rock and rollthan, than red wine.
Yeah.
In my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Maybe he just had a pallet for a red wine, but
that's that?
And so he was mixing red winewith what was the other thing
though with barbituratesbarbiturates.
Okay.
In barbiturates, they keep youare those, I should know this,
this is embarrassing, but arethey uppers or downers?
They're downers.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Right.
They're downers.
So they suppress your
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You're breathing.
Okay.
Given my line of work, I shouldknow my categories, drugs, but
it's been a while since thelicensing exam.
So,
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So he took a ton of barbiturates and a lot of red
wine and he died on September18th, 1970.
And
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It seemed unintentional.
Right?
He was just,
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, it seemed unintentional.
Know there was an interestingdispute that followed with him
between two of his girlfriends.
And remember I said, MonicaDannemann was with him the night
before.
And the morning of when he, whenhe passed the morning of, after
he passed, she made basicallyher livelihood and notoriety was
(12:30):
being his fiance, according toher, they were engaged.
Okay.
But many, many people disputethat.
It doesn't really seem likethere's anything at all to
support that.
And he had another girlfriend bythe name of Kathy Etchingham and
she was seen Hendrix at seamsduring the time Dan was seeing
(12:51):
him, there was some overlapthere and she really called into
question Dan amens account of,of what happened.
She also believes that DanHerman was not number one,
definitely not engaged to him,but maybe they'd only really
been together for a few days.
Really.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
It sounds very acrimonious, you know, the
aftermath of his death.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
And they basically battled over this for, I think
it was 26 years.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Jesus like, let it go,
Speaker 3 (13:21):
That gene ham said, I guess she had a real problem
with it didn't seem like she wasmotivated by jealousy that I
could see or that, you know, mamaybe there was some of that.
There, there probably was, butit just seemed like she really
was disgusted about how DanDannon's relationship with him
as his fiance.
She was making a living off of,I see the writing books and
(13:42):
painting pictures of him andthings like that.
And I think she was just kind ofdisgusted by that in October,
2011, interview with her by theindependent, which is a British
newspaper.
The name of the article was arock legend unto herself by Mary
braid.
And what happened was, is thatDannon and edgy and him ended up
(14:02):
in court and Dannon lost like aliable lawsuit after she lost
that.
She died by suicide really a fewdays later.
So when was this?
How long ago was this?
I think the Danna man probablydied in 96.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think really sad.
Gosh, it seems like she, likeher whole existence was kind of
staked on being, you know, hisgirlfriend and his last days or
something.
And
Speaker 3 (14:29):
She couldn't, it's funny that you, that you bring
that up because in the 2011interview with, uh, the
independent and she'd him, I'dgive this following quote of
what she said, well, this is thequote.
It says, she believes the corecase was the final blow to Dan
admin's, lifelong deception,according to ECI and ham, the
core case established once.
And for all that, she was notJimmy's girlfriend.
(14:49):
She says everything was to catchup with her.
Yeah.
And she also it's very sad.
And then Dan and one was alsomarried to, I believe he was the
guitarist for scorpions, thatheavy metal band in the
eighties.
And he was like a really, he wasa huge fan of Jimmy Hendrix too.
So it just seemed like her, herwhole life was, was based on his
(15:12):
fame.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What's what it sounds like.
Like she was kind of the groupiethat never quit until she did
exactly
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Another link to Cobain.
And then someone else is goingto talk about Zapata later.
Um, Hendrix was born in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah.
When you told me that recently Iwas really surprised.
I had no idea that Jimi Hendrixwas from SIA.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
There's someone else that I want to talk about that I
don't think many people know ofunless you were into the music
scene in Seattle.
So that's a link to, is therewas a singer.
She was up and coming.
She was the lead singer of aband called the guts.
And I think they formed in thelate eighties, they were mostly
punk, but also in the grungescene.
(15:52):
And with Zapata, she Dawn andJuly 7th, 1993, she was an
extremely popular artist.
Her band was really up andcoming and she had left a music
venue called the comment.
She was found dead.
Like I said, near theintersection.
I have no idea where this wouldbe 24th Avenue, South and South
Washington street at around 3:30AM.
(16:15):
And she had been sexuallyassaulted and beaten and
strangled.
And they didn't find the personwho had done it for about 10
years.
They had no idea who did it andthey took some DNA and they
that's how they were able tofind out that this person had,
had murdered her.
But they think that sheencountered her attacker around
(16:35):
2:15 AM.
And this might be where I heardabout her is that she was
featured or her case wasfeatured in an episode of
forensic files.
The name of that episode was theday the music died.
No.
And so that was, um, it wasaired November 14th, 2007 and
evidently, and this is it'slike, what are, what are the
(16:56):
odds on this too?
Is that her body wasn'tinitially identified?
Cause she had no identificationon her when she was found.
But in the episode of forensicfiles, evidently she was
identified after the medicalexaminer who is a fan of the
band and actually bender theirconcert.
He recognized her,
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Oh my God, that's a crazy detail.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That is a crazy detail.
And according to him, you know,he said, if she, even if she
hadn't been strangled that shewould have died from her
internal injuries because shehad been beaten that badly.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's horrible.
Now the person who murdered her,I know they found this person 10
years later, was it a random actof violence or was this, you
know, a fan who was obsessedwith her?
And yeah,
Speaker 3 (17:38):
It was random.
He was, um, he was a cab driverand I think he just, he must've
just happened upon her
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Attacked her that's awful
Speaker 3 (17:46):
During the time that they didn't know who killer was
actually Nirvana and Pearl jam,they were part of this benefit
to raise money or to, you know,draw awareness to try to find
out, you know, who, who killedher.
Well, that's really cool.
So it's just weird that she'sconnected with Cobain and then
Seattle is connected, you know,it was born in Seattle and I
(18:09):
just think that's unusual.
So yeah, just a lot of, youknow, unusual things about me as
a Pata, I've gone back, I'velistened to some of her music,
I've watched some performancevideos and just seemed like she
was very talented, very dynamic.
And it was very young.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I like the idea that, you know, I don't think there
were as many, certainly thereweren't as many female grunge
rockers as there were men and Ithink to be a woman in that
scene and that really tooksomething to, to do that.
So yeah, that makes her reallycool.
So that's, that's reallyinteresting.
I'm going to have to listen tothe music of me as a Potter.
She sounds like she was a reallycool, cool young woman.
(18:47):
And I'm sorry that she, youknow, that she died in the way
she did.
That's just reallyheartbreaking.
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to talk for abit about, um, Janis Joplin, who
I, I'm not a giant fan of JanisJoplin's music.
Like I like me and Bobby McGeeand, um, you know, some of her
songs, but I couldn't put it onfor hours and jam to it.
I think it's, it's a littleharsh for me or a little like a
(19:11):
lot of screaming and a lot of, Iguess I, I go from melody more.
I'm really making myself soundlike an old fuddy-duddy, but
there it is.
But, but I admire Janis Joplinthe person very much because I
think she, she just gave offthis air of self-sufficiency and
of self-confidence really, but Ithink she actually really
(19:32):
struggled with, withself-confidence and with
self-esteem.
So I'm going to talk about thatin a minute, but she died, um,
in a lot of what I'm going to bementioning here is from a
documentary called the lasthours of Janice Joplin.
Um, it's from season two and itcame out in 2016.
So Janice Joplin, everybodyknows this, but just mentioned
it.
She was really considered thefirst female superstar of rock
(19:53):
and she could, she could rock itas hard as any boy could and
probably harder.
And she was, um, an amazingperson.
She was known for a great senseof humor.
She had tons of tattoos and sheapparently had a legendary
libido both from men and women.
So I love that Janis Joplin wasbisexual.
I also read that she wasdescribed as very needy.
So her relationships were reallyintense.
(20:16):
Um, and she had, I think shealways felt like an outcast
really from the earliest, fromher earliest years, she was born
and raised in Texas.
And you know, it was just verydifferent from her family.
I don't know a lot about herupbringing, but one thing I read
about her just really broke myheart.
And that was when she went awayto college.
She went to the university ofTexas at Austin and she's like
(20:36):
walking down the halls andhappens to look at this bulletin
board and reads this flyer thatsays that she has been voted the
ugliest man on campus.
And that, that just killed mebecause I think every woman can
imagine what that would feellike, you know?
And she, she had already had alot of body, you know, body
(20:56):
image issues.
And so I think this is somethingthat she carried with her
Speaker 4 (21:00):
For, for a long time, you know, and
Speaker 1 (21:03):
She was a very well known user of drugs and alcohol.
And I wonder how much of that,that wound or that sort of self
hatred of, of herself and herbody contributed to her drug and
alcohol use.
And I don't, I don't mean tolike put her in on the
therapist's couch, but, but itjust makes you wonder, I mean,
that would be a hard thing toforget would not, when that
really stick with you.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh yeah.
So horrendous thing still
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Joplin was found dead in her Hollywood apartment.
And a lot of these, I noticed alot of these rockers would live
in hotels.
So their apartments wouldactually be in a hotel.
And hers was at the famouslandmark hotel in LA.
She died in room one Oh five.
And when I, I came acrosssomething on the internet that
said that the hotel is still inoperation and that you can
(21:47):
actually visit her room.
You can stay in her room roomone Oh five and it's become
something of a shrine.
So they have a plaque in thecloset that says, you know,
Janice Joplin died here on suchand such a date and the fan who
stay there, decorate the walls.
It's just filled with notes anddrawings and, and all of these,
um, these tributes to, to Janiceis so, you know, in terms of, of
(22:08):
what contributed to her death,she was discovered to have been
drinking on the night she died.
She was drinking.
She went out for a drink at thisbar called Barney's Beanery,
which was a big dive bar.
And it was, it was reallypopular with, um, rock
musicians.
Jim Morrison would go there too.
So she was drinking there andher drink of choice was Southern
(22:29):
comfort, which I read somethingrecently about Southern comfort.
I thought it was a whiskey, butapparently it's also in another
category.
And I can't remember what it is.
I think I read that it'sconsidered a, liqour like a
peach liqour, which reallysurprised me.
Yeah.
I think it's like somehowinfused with peaches.
Um, do you want me
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Look it up?
Yeah.
I'm just curious.
I would not think of it as ofthe core
Speaker 1 (22:53):
God, there's actually a Janice Joplin Southern
comfort.
So it's one of the world's mostfamous LaCores it's made with
American grain spirits.
Impeaches so yeah.
You know, I might give it a tryagain.
I think I had some in college,but, um, but there's some really
great sounding drinks likeSouthern comfort peach smash and
(23:14):
it has champagne and coconuts.
I mean, that sounds
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Hello.
Good.
That actually does sound good.
I know
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Maybe, maybe we're going to have to try some
Southern comfort in honor ofJanice Joplin, but anyway, so
Janice Joplin worked herSouthern comfort angle because
she said to the people who madeSouthern comfort, like, Hey, you
know, you know, I drink yourdrink.
Like that's all I drink.
If you buy me a for a coat andhat, I will just, you know, I
will represent your drinkwherever I go.
(23:40):
So they did, they bought herthis amazing fur coat and you
can see pictures of her onlineand her and her friends.
I think
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I've seen that before, but I didn't know that
that's what the connection was.
Was it like a big white frame?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I think it was, yeah, I think it was in, in, you know,
you might see her holding thebottle and everything.
So she was probably the bestknown drinker of Southern
comfort.
She would drink on stage.
Um, I mean she was a drinker andthey did find when they did her
autopsy that she had a fattyliver.
So, you know, if she hadn't diedthe way she died at 27, it's
kind of makes you wonder howlong she would have lived
(24:13):
anyway.
Or she would have, you know,her, I think she would have
encountered a lot of, a lot ofhealth problems at the time of
her death.
She has, was actually launchingout on her own, trying to, to go
solo rather than I forget thename of her band.
But she had been with her bandbefore that, from what I read
and from what I watched herband, her band mates were really
centering for her.
Like they kept her on solidground.
(24:35):
And so when she went solo, itwas a lot harder for her to just
cope with life.
And I think she was drinking alot more the night that she
died, they found some pills inher room that were marked Lily
one 72.
And the pathologist on the showsaid that that, that match no
drug that he knew of, but hesuspected it was probably
methadone.
And, you know, methadone is thedrug that you take.
(24:56):
Um, well now it's used as atreatment for people who are
recovering from heroin addictionbecause it, it gives you forget
exactly what it does, but itkind of gives you, it keeps you
from going through thoseterrible withdrawal symptoms of
heroin addiction without givingyou the high, I think is what it
does.
So it keeps you from gettingdope, sick in other words.
So they found these pills in herroom, but there was none in her
system.
(25:16):
So she, she hadn't ODed on that.
She did have some needle marksin her arm, but they look kind
of old.
Like they suspected they weremaybe from, I don't know, like
three weeks ago, something likethat.
And in terms of her heroinaddiction, she had started
probably back in 1967.
So about three years earlier.
And she had some close callsbefore her actual death.
So between 1968 and 69, sheoverdosed on heroin six times.
(25:41):
So she was kind of, yeah, Imean, that's, that's like a lot
of, that's a lot of overdoses.
You kind of feel like the, theclock was really ticking on her.
It was just a matter of time.
And that breaks my heart again,because I think she seems to me,
even though I love herappearance of self-confidence, I
get a sense of vulnerabilityfrom her too.
And you just want to kind ofkeep her safe, you know, you
just want to keep her away fromall of that.
(26:02):
And it seems like
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Heroin is just such a, such an addictive drug.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I would be terrified to try it even once.
Cause I've heard, I've read thatsometimes it's just that one
high and people are addictedfrom the get-go, you know,
apparently there's a feelingthat it's like nothing else on
earth, but I've also read thatyou never know high as ever as
good as your first high and thatyou're always chasing, chasing
that, you know, and you cannever quite get it.
(26:28):
It just seems like a horribleway to live.
Just seems evil.
Like if a substance can be evil,it just seems like heroin is
truly evil.
There's
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Famous thread on Reddit and you know, I can get
lost and read it, but yes youcan.
One of the famous threads isabout a who's posting.
And he said that he just wantedto try heroin for the first
time.
And then, you know, he wasreporting back and then it just,
he totally decompensated andbecame a food addict for years.
(26:56):
And of course this is just hisaccount.
I mean, it could be anybodymaking something up, but you
know, even a friend can tell youa lie, but that's one of the
most, one of the most, I guess,infamous threads on Reddit was,
was about that.
And this guy becoming, you know,deciding he's just going to do
it once and then just to seewhat it's like, and then he
keeps going back and then heturns into a, as a full fledged
(27:18):
addiction.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, it's so scary.
It makes you wonder, I mean,there's this curious part of me
that makes me wonder what doesthat, what does that highlight
part people describe it as asense of warmth kind of coursing
through your veins, like anultimate peace, but yeah, but it
makes you, I don't know.
I have a lot of empathy forpeople who do use, you know, and
who gets sucked into thatthrough, um, over, over, um,
prescription of opioids, youknow, and God knows, like
(27:42):
there's such a, um, such anepidemic of opioid addiction, um
, especially in Appalachia andpeople get into it in such, you
know, innocent ways.
And then, you know, you'redancing with the devil before,
you know, it, it's just awful.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
There's a song off the most recent Brandi Carlile
album and it's called sugartooth.
And it's about this guy whodeveloped an addiction.
And basically he was just takingthe pills as they were
prescribed and just how youknow, it ruined his life and it
led to his death.
It's a re it's a really goodsong.
Very sad.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I haven't heard that one.
We're both huge Brandi Carlilefans.
See you.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
We were watching something here.
I can't remember.
It was narrated by LawrenceO'Donnell and it was about the
opioid abuse and addiction.
And in Appalachia, I've watcheda few things on that,
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Watching that too.
I wonder if we were watchingthat at the same time, it was on
the other night.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
One of the areas they were talking about was
Pennington gap.
Virginia was one place.
And then I know West Virginia.
I mean,
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, they were talking about Ronceverte, which
I, when I go home to visit myfamily, I go right past the exit
for[inaudible].
I think it's, it's not far fromLewisburg.
In fact, they showed this onescene, you know, like they had
taken it from, what am I tryingan aerial scene?
And I was like, I think that'sinterstate 64.
You know, I've driven thatinterstate like a million times,
(29:02):
but yeah, it's weird to thinkthat like you, you drive through
there and you know, people areliving.
I mean, I'm sure within a fewmiles of each of us, within a
mile of each of us, people areliving lives with desperation
because of this stuff.
It's really heartbreaking.
And you know, there's that sensewhen I think about Janis Joplin,
like I just want to protect her.
Of course I wasn't even bornwhen she died, but she did meet
(29:23):
this guy.
His name was David Niehaus andshe met him when she was, I
guess, vacationing in Rio deJaneiro.
And he seemed like alegitimately good guy.
He was not associated with themusic business.
He was just an ordinary Joe.
And he prem everything.
I, you know, I watched, heseemed to really love her and he
did help her kick the, so shegot off heroin for some time.
(29:43):
I'm not exactly sure how long,but the relationship,
unfortunately didn't last.
She had a good friend who wasalso, they were lovers and then
they shot up together.
And so he comes home, I think,from a ski trip and find some in
bed together they're asleep.
And, uh, you know, he leaves herafter that because he, he just
feels like, you know, she'snever going to get clean and you
know, she's cheating on him andthings like that, but he seemed
(30:05):
like he was a benign more than abenign influence in her life and
sad to me that that relationshipended.
But, you know, she, she kind ofcycled through addiction as, as
most people who are addicted toheroin or other drugs do.
And when they did the autopsy,they did find that there was
morphine in both her, her bloodand her bile.
And that's what heroin turnsinto when it enters your enters
(30:27):
your system.
It turns into morphine and theydiscovered that what she had
used that night.
So just to back up a little bit,she typically got her drugs from
the same person and this dealerwould have a chemist.
He had a chemist, I guess, onthe payroll who would test the
drugs and make sure they were,they were clean and there was
nothing in there that was gonnaharm more than more than they
(30:48):
would anyway, that was going tokill you.
But this time the chemist was onvacation for a week.
So her, her heroin wasn't vettedby this chemist.
And so she used it.
Most heroin I read is likearound like five to 7% pure, the
heroin she used that night, itwas around 50% pure,
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Which was, yeah, no one would survive
Speaker 1 (31:08):
That.
Yeah.
Like that's, that's so strong.
And then, you know, she'd alsobeen abstinent recently.
I think her last, you know, theywere suspecting that her last
use before that night wasprobably about three weeks ago
and she was trying to get off ofit.
So it was just the perfectstorm, you know?
So her, her death was from anaccidental overdose of pure
heroin.
It's really sad.
But one of the quotes I, I foundreally intriguing from, from
(31:32):
Joplin.
She said, maybe I won't last aslong as other singers, but I
think you can destroy today byworrying about tomorrow.
You know?
And I agree with that sentimentbecause God knows I'm a warrior,
I'm ink, I'm in riddled withanxieties of every kind.
And I'm always worrying abouttomorrow and the next day and
the day after that.
And, you know, it seemed likeshe, she wanted to be free from
(31:52):
that.
And maybe drugs helped her dothat.
But, but I do think she had thislive for a moment kind of
attitude, you know, living forthe moment, which I admire, but
it didn't, you know, in the end,it, she flamed out too early.
Unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I read where I read, where she hit Jim Morrison over
the head with a bottle ofSouthern comfort.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Hope she did.
Cause he I'm going to talk abouthim next year.
Um, I think he was a bit of aDick.
I'm sorry to offend anyone outthere.
Who's a big Jim Morrison fan,but from things, some things I
read about him
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Per the story I read is that he just wouldn't take no
for an answer anyway.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, he definitely, he needed to have more than his
head knocked off with a bottleof Southern comfort.
Um, yeah.
Jim Morrison, are you a fan bythe way, Jim
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Morrison now, to be honest with you, I'm not a huge
seventies music fan that'sright.
It makes you depressed.
Doesn't it?
I just think it's a downer
Speaker 1 (32:45):
More of like, I like say like the Laurel Canyon, you
know, seventies music like LindaRonstadt and Jackson Brown,
those, those people, but not somuch into the seventies rock.
I mean, I think the doors hadsome, they had some really good
songs, but he's, he's not one ofmy faves, but he, you know,
regardless, regardless of whatyou and I think he was regarded
as one of the most iconicrockers of all time.
(33:07):
And some people truly think hewas, you know, a great, he was
one of the greatest.
Um, and he certainly representedthis, this gender gap and the
counterculture.
And he was, I think he was avery self stylized kind of
person.
Like he made, maybe it was himor maybe it was his handlers or
his agents, but he kind of woulddevelop these persona around
himself.
(33:27):
One of them was the lizard King.
And from what I read, that namecame into being in part because
of the way he moved.
He would almost kind of slitheron stage.
But, but the thing that he, hewas most interested in was
poetry.
And he really wanted to bethought of as a poet, before
being thought of as a rocker,um, in some of his concerts and
songs and things, he would doimprovised, spoken word poetry.
(33:49):
Now I have not spent a lot oftime with the poetry of Jim
Morrison, but something tells melike, he probably thought I'm
probably going to get reamed forthis.
But something tells me, heprobably thought he was a better
poet than he actually was.
I don't know.
I'm just saying, I think heprobably fancied himself more of
a poet than, than he really was.
I'm sorry, Jim.
Sorry, but he was a notoriousdrinker.
(34:10):
So he drank, um, just like in astrapline drank.
He, he drank from like the 1960son and I think alcohol was
really his drug of choice.
It's, it's what he used most.
Um, when he died, he died July3rd, 1971.
And he died in Paris.
He had been living in Paris fora few months.
He had moved there with him.
(34:31):
Well, he'd moved there with hisgirlfriend, Pamela Corson.
And it seems like he went toParis for a couple of reasons.
One of them was, he was justreally sick and tired of being a
rock and roll hero.
I think he wanted to escape someof that fame.
You know, you think about whenwe talk about Cobain and how
fame was really hard on him.
I think fame was hard on JimMorrison as well, even though he
(34:51):
quartered it in a lot of ways,but he wanted to live, I think,
a slower paced lifestyle.
The other reason I, I cameacross was that he was trying to
get away from some legaltroubles in the United States.
So the doors had had thisconcert in Miami.
I can't remember exactly the day, but maybe it was a few months
before he, before he left forParis.
(35:12):
And it was just pureunadulterated craziness.
So like half the audience islike ripping their clothes off.
They're naked people everywhere.
And it was said that JimMorrison like whipped out his
Dick on stage and exposedhimself.
Now I saw a documentary whereone band mate said, absolutely
not like he did not do that.
(35:33):
He took off his shirt, you know,and he was provocative, but he
did not expose himself.
But other people say that hedid.
So anyway, he was, they were, Ithink they were charged with
public and decency and he was anhonor and FBI watch list.
Um, apparently the FBIconsidered him to be a menace to
society, which kind of cracks meup.
It's like this old 1950s notionof like the kids are going to be
(35:56):
just sit, like he was going tohave a bad influence on young
people.
So some people say that he wentto Paris to kind of get to get
away from all of these legaltroubles.
He was having back in theStates, according to this, um,
this documentary that I watched,it sounds to me like it seemed
to me like Jim Morrison had amost excellent last day.
(36:16):
I mean, if this was going to bemy last day, I could think of
worst days.
So he like first, well, thefirst thing is his health wasn't
too great.
Like he had gained a lot ofweight.
I'm not sure if he startedgaining weight before he went to
Paris or once he got there, buthe put on some weight and he was
having, I think in, when youlook at it afterwards, it seemed
like he was having some heartissues, maybe some congestive
heart failure and things likethat.
(36:38):
Cause he would have a hard timewalking up the staircase.
And here was a guy who had hadlike, you know, by all accounts,
like a great body who was veryfit.
And you know, he was considereda sex God by most people.
But a lot of women thought hewas like the sexiest man they'd
ever seen in their lives.
So, you know, he was dealingwith some health issues, but the
day of his death, he had thisfriend, his name was Allen.
He was a French guy and theywent out, they had lunch, like
(37:00):
they drank, um, they had a lotof beers.
Apparently Jim stopped off inthe shop and bought a star of
David necklace for hisgirlfriend.
And I think they went to, theywent to like a film, film shop
as well.
And one interesting tidbit aboutJim Morrison and this I like
about him.
He went to UCLA and studiedfilm.
So he had his, he had hisbachelor's in, um, like film
(37:22):
history or something.
His family was really aboutthat.
And speaking of his family, bythe time of his death, I don't
think he'd been in contact withhis parents for like two or
three years.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
It was a really, really bad relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It was like a military family and his dad
really wanted one thing for him.
And that was for him to go intothe military.
And Jim wanted none of that.
So I think when he went to filmschool, that was like the last
straw.
I can't imagine what theythought when he became a
rockstar.
They were probably completelyscandalized.
But anyway, so he hangs out witha LAN and then, um, they go back
to Jim's apartment that hesharing with Pamela and Jim kind
(37:58):
of begs a land.
Like, please don't go, don't go,let's go out and have another
drink.
So they do, they have anotherdrink.
And then later LN leaves anddoes his thing.
And Jim hooks up with Pamela andthey, I think they also go
drinking a bit and then theydecide to go to the movies.
Um, cause you know, he was a bigfilm buff.
So they go back to theirapartment and this makes me
laugh a little bit.
(38:19):
They watch home movies of theirvacations play old door's
records, but, and then they doheroin together and they're, you
know, they're doing quite a bitof heroin.
And so they're both really,really high and he's not feeling
well.
So Pam, his girlfriend wants tocall the doctor, but he he's
refusing.
He's like, no, you know, it'sfine.
Go back to bed.
(38:39):
And I guess she was in thebedroom and he was sleeping out
on the couch.
So at some point he starts tohave trouble breathing.
And I guess he figures like, letme get in the bathtub, let me
get into some warm water.
Maybe that'll help me sort ofsober up a little bit.
And I guess there are some likefolk remedies where people think
that getting in a cold or a warmbath is going to help you sober
up from heroin more quickly, butdon't do that because apparently
(39:03):
it does not work.
So he, he gets in the tub and hestarts throwing up blood and she
gets up, I guess she hears himand he tells her go back to bed.
So she goes back to bed.
I don't understand this.
I would think that like if, ifmy husband were throwing up
blood in the bathtub and haddone all this heroin, I'd be
calling nine one one.
I don't know what she'sthinking.
He could have done this athousand times before.
(39:24):
And that's probably true.
And it's funny that you say thatbecause when she finally does
get up, you know, the last timearound 6:00 AM, she notices that
his nose and his mouth arecrusted with blood and she's
trying to wake him up, but he'snot responding.
And so she actually thinks he'sjoking because apparently Jim
Morrison would pull this stuntquite often where he would play
dead.
(39:44):
And so she thinks he's playingdead after I know bad idea.
Right.
And it's just so cruel, likewhat a cruel thing to do.
She doesn't know her French.
Isn't good enough to call anambulance.
So she calls his friend, Ellen,Renee and Renee calls in before,
you know, before they know it.
Um, paramedics are there.
I think firefighters were firston the scene and they get'em out
(40:04):
of the bathtub.
And at first they think he'smaybe still alive because his
body feels warm, but the bathwater was still kind of half
warm kind of tepid.
Once they get him out, theyrealize he's cold.
There's no pulse.
And so no he's died.
Um, his death certificate lists,his cause of death is heart
failure.
Um, and there was no autopsydone, which I find kind of
surprising.
I mean, Janis Joplin had anautopsy done.
(40:26):
Maybe, maybe customs weredifferent in France than they
were in the U S that's that'sall I can think.
So Jim Morrison was buried inParis.
Um, he's buried in this famouscemetery called parallel shows
where there are a lot ofnotables buried, like Oscar
Wilde, Frederick Chapin.
I think George sand, thenovelist is buried there.
(40:47):
I could be mistaken about that,but just a lot of, a lot of
famous people.
It's a beautiful cemetery.
So when I was in France, I spentpretty much a day there just
visiting all of the graves.
And the summer before I went toFrance, I worked in this crappy
restaurant called JohnnyAppleseed.
I was a hostess.
It was like a, it was like aCracker barrel knockoff.
Um, but there was this girl whoworked there.
(41:09):
I think she worked back in thekitchen and she was obsessed
with Jim Morrison.
So I said, well, you know, I'mgoing to France, like, you know,
in a couple of months and youknow, I'm planning to go to
where, you know, the cemeterywhere he's buried.
Like, do you want me to takeanything?
And she's like, Oh my God, wouldyou?
And so she gives me this piecenecklace, it's like the silver
necklace.
It has like the peace symbol,like a pendant.
(41:30):
And then she, um, she wrote thisprivate note to Jim Morrison,
which she had all sealed up andI didn't open it.
So I laid those things on hisgrave for her, but his grave was
just completely covered withstuff, you know?
Cause all these people go andpay homage and on his
gravestone.
So there were a couple of gravemarkers that were stolen or
defaced over the years.
But in 1990, his dad, you knowwho I mentioned, he had a
(41:52):
terrible relationship with hisdad, but his dad placed a new
gravestone and it had aninscription in Greek that reads
true to his own spirit.
Um, another translation isaccording to his own demons.
So I liked that.
I liked those duelingtranslations because one sounds
very nice.
And one sounds kind of like, youknow, he was a really up guy,
but anyway, that's the story ofJim Morrison.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
It just seems like 27 is such a transitional time in
your life.
Even more so than like 25 or Ithink when you're at 27, people
start to settle down more.
You're on your way to that, youknow, and kind of thinking, and
I think even more and more aboutyour future, you're kind of
realizing, okay, well I'm notgoing to be in my twenties
forever and, and thirties justright around the corner.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah.
It's that time when you'resettling down and you're kind of
getting really getting into yourcareer and making some, some
strides.
And so yeah, I think to be, tohave that cut short is such a,
such a really tragic thing whenyou're just really getting
started.
There is a quick poem.
I just wanted to share with youbecause I think it really gets
at the theme that we've talkedabout tonight.
It's called first fig it's bypoet.
(42:56):
I really liked named Edna St.
Vincent Millay.
And I believe she wrote this in1920, so it's pretty old, but it
goes, my candle burns at bothends.
It will not last the night, butall my foes and all my friends,
it gives a lovely light.
I like that.
Yeah.
I think that really gets it ortalking about there's something
like there's loss, but there'salso, there's something to be
(43:18):
said about that greatillumination of really burning
your candle at both ends.
You know?
So maybe what these, these soulslacked in longevity, they made
up for an intensity, you know?
So maybe that's the trade-off soshall we toast?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yes, we should toast.
I think we should.
I don't know how appropriatethat is considering, but
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, I mean, I think that we're toasting to people
who maybe go out to theirjourneys on too soon, but what
they got there and that's wherewe're all going.
I mean, not to be superdepressing, but we're all here's
to the journey.
Maybe that's what we should toesto whatever it looks like,
whatever shape it takes orhowever long it lasts.
Just I can drink to that.
(44:00):
Making the most of it to thejourney is my friend.
Cheers.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
[inaudible].
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