Told He Had 2 Years to Live. So He Risked It All

Arjun Paliwal was told he had two years to live.

Instead of shrinking back, he risked everything and built a multi-million dollar property empire.

This is one of the most powerful stories we’ve ever recorded.

In this episode, Arjun opens up about the moment he found out he needed open-heart surgery and how that diagnosis forced a choice that would change everything.

From surviving a near-death health scare to building one of Australia’s most respected property businesses Investor Kit, this is the story of going all-in when the stakes couldn’t be higher.

👇 Chapters

00:00:00 - Intro

00:00:58 - Powered by Little Fish

00:01:39 - Meet Arjun Paliwal

00:02:58 - From NZ to Australia

00:05:14 - Working in Finance Out of School

0:13:19 - Building a Property Empire

00:14:14 - His First Investment Win

00:15:51 - What You Need to Achieve

00:17:42 - Rising at CommWealth

00:20:55 - Travel and Finding Purpose

00:23:00 - Launching InvestorKit

00:25:52 - Buying in Burnie, Tasmania

00:26:56 - Market Pressure Analysis Explained

00:30:33 - Scaling InvestorKit

00:40:13 - Property Advice That Works

00:46:05 - His Near-Death Experience

00:55:48 - Lessons From Growing a Business

01:01:37 - Must-Know Tips for Young Buyers

01:06:57 - Outro

Extraordinary stories. Raw. Real. Unfiltered. Hosted by Peter Kelly and Ben Drohan.

👉 Follow the Pod: https://linktr.ee/littlefishpod

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📣 Powered by: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Little Fish Property⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You'd be surprised how many people have access to the
information that I've just shared with you that I had.
Just Commbank alone, they have over 50,000 employees.
Why isn't there 50,000 plus people with successful multi
figure portfolios? Because that and after a lot of
rejection, by the way, I think Igot rejected for every possible
job you could do. So out came that job as a
teller, and after that job as a teller, I think I just fell in

(00:20):
love with the whole world of howfinances work and how everything
happens in that. World but a life saving heart
surgery changed everything recently.
You've I had a health scare. Can you talk us through that?
2024 June I go in for open heartsurgery and the doctor told me I
would have been a couple of years at Max to still be alive.
As a result of having that procedure I had my business

(00:42):
astronomically grow like astronomical.
Why I feel that is is. Thanks for jumping on Ajun.
Mate, it's good to be here and acouple of the words fish used a
few time, little fish, big fish and I'm feeling hungry all of a
sudden. Need to go get some fish and
chips after this? Talk to us where you grew up
when you moved to Australia. Yes, as soon as you said fish
and chips I was drooling just onthe side already.

(01:03):
So definitely a Kiwi from Wellington, New Zealand.
I'd moved here. It's been now almost say 14
years ago and I go back every single year.
But my wife met her here, but she's also a Kiwi too.
And so, yeah, I moved over from 2010.
There's a day in New Zealand called Guy Fawkes Day, which I

(01:24):
don't think it's, it's a big thing in Australia, but it's
about that, that bloke I think, who tried to blow up Parliament
in the UK and there was that movie about it.
There's other things for V for Vendetta, I think.
I could be wrong. I could have just stuffed that
up, but I mean. That rings a bell for me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there's a story about the
Guy Fawkes event that took placeand, and essentially there was a
day where firecrackers go off inNew Zealand.

(01:45):
And I don't know if it was a thank God Arjun's leaving
fireworks that day or if it was me celebrating new adventures.
Either or. I'm here in Australia now.
Amazing. So what age did you come across
that? I moved over when I was 18.
Yeah, nice. So finished school.
Yeah, finished. Finished high school there.
Yeah. Came over here.
I found the schooling transfer interesting.

(02:06):
I had one year of uni in New Zealand.
Then I did my, I had acceptance into a couple of uni's for the
second year, but I fell in love with the job that I got at
Commonwealth Bank as a bank teller.
So that's my first job in Australia.
And after a lot of rejection, bythe way, I think I got rejected
for every possible job you coulddo.
So I was trying to sweep hairs at the Barber Barber shop off
the floor. I got rejected for that.

(02:28):
I don't know how you get rejected for that, right?
I also got rejected for various clothes stores.
And so I think I was doing them for the wrong reasons.
I was trying to get the benefit of what that job offered rather
than do the job. So the Barber shop was like, oh,
could I get free haircuts maybe?Or maybe at the clothes stores,
can I get a free clothes or staff discounts?
Learn to humble myself pretty quickly that it's not just about

(02:50):
me, it's about what I give and get back in terms of the
workforce. And out came that job as a
teller and after that job as a teller, I think I just fell in
love with the whole world of howfinances work and how everything
happens in that world. Curiosity was the big theme for
me. People would be ready to clock
off as soon as AT4430, whatever the time was for me.

(03:11):
It was like annoying everyone with questions more and more.
And that made me go I, I kind ofwant to keep doing this After a
bit of success in that space, I was like, I don't want to go
back to uni. So I paused uni for a little
bit, kept going down the the banking world of Commonwealth
Bank and and here I am today. What did what did you study at
uni? I did a master's degree, so MB
AI came back to uni afterwards and that was at Adelaide,

(03:33):
actually Adelaide Institute of Business.
So I did my MBA through them by distance learning.
And after that I think that opened up a few doors in CBA
because I found that was interesting, like pre doing MBA
as applying for a whole bunch ofjobs in the corporate office,
nothing, crickets. And then just by getting that,
it suddenly opened up and I could have sworn I'd like to say

(03:55):
I was a changed person after doing it, but I'll be honest, I
wasn't really. So I felt the same person.
But sometimes it's interesting without a label against your
name, a job opportunity may not open up.
And so I found that was quite helpful when moving up the
ranks. So you're climbing the ladder in
the CB in at CBA just financing bank banking, that whole world

(04:17):
interest you a lot. Yeah, I think it starts from the
customers who walk in through the door.
So it wasn't the corporate side that I started in.
A lot of people who finished their uni degrees, a lot of
people who finished their uni degrees 1st and then go into
banking end up jumping straight into corporate.
Whereas for me, because I workedup the ranks from being a bank
teller, you see real people, real things that go on in their

(04:38):
life, real mistakes, real successes as well.
See the guy in the shorts, the flip flops, hat on backwards,
ready to go. RIP T-shirt will come in and go,
yeah, just here for a bit of loan.
Loan help, Loan help. What's loan help?
00 loans for properties. OK, Swipe the card, look into
the profile. Person's got like 16 places and
you're like, holy, what? So you learn all the things in

(04:59):
that banking world. Never judge a book by its cover.
Sometimes the stories that you hear that people are crushing it
and you see the real lives, they're not really crushing it.
It's all a show in the front end.
And you see the opposite, right?So I think that was the world I
had for majority of my banking time.
So you learn a lot in that space, home loans, bank
accounts, business accounts, youknow, financial planning,

(05:21):
business banking, you're really well versed in that front end
and you're dealing with people, you're helping them hit their
goals. Some people have had the
opposite happen to them and maybe it's not been a good run.
Losing homes just scary too. You see it all.
And so I think that really prepared me for life and that
was my core thing. I enjoyed a lot in in that world
of banking. What a what a great first step
out of school. Yeah.

(05:42):
Yeah, real, real life stuff, isn't it?
You're. Touching and feeling real
people. And you often don't know what
you're doing. I can relate to everything
because we finished in 2010 together, so my timeline's
perfect. We're both the same age.
But when you finish at that age,you don't know what you're
doing. You're guessing that I want to
go study this or that, but you don't really know until you

(06:04):
start getting that real life experience. 100% And I think
when I look back at that moment now, just seeing what I'd
learned and the journey I take. Student debt, right?
Big, big issue in Australia, globally, massive issue.
I don't have a cent of student debt after finishing my master's
degree. And the why, why I share that

(06:25):
with people is that I encourage and this is just obviously my
opinion because that's just who I am.
My opinion is this, if you can go in the workforce and float
around with different careers until you find something that
you want to, you know, do well and or be in and start at the
absolute bottom. Because knowing that an 1819
year old is likely to be at the bottom of any corporate career

(06:46):
or any type of career, work yourway up until the point you get
stuck. And that stuck part was the
whole I needed the NBA next to me to open up a door.
And The thing is, if you're having some sort of, I guess,
financial acumen whilst you're building up, you're going to put
some money aside. And so when it came to doing my
NBA paid for it cash because I'dhad four years to six years of

(07:09):
working and I was able to go, I'm saving for my future.
Didn't know I was going to MBA, be an MBA that time before the
six years of working. And you put cash aside, you
leave with experience, you work through different ranks, you've
enjoyed life as well because youknow the 18 to 21 year olds,
Sure you can enjoy time when you're not at uni, but your
finances aren't that great when you're in the UNI period.

(07:31):
So I was working. So I had a little bit of money
to have some fun with. Go out for a few dinners.
Act older than you are and, and essentially you go out there and
have a bit of fun, save some money and you can come back to
those careers through education afterwards.
And you didn't have a send to student debt afterwards either
because you're able to work the whole way through.

(07:53):
So going back to that time, the real world was the best
experience because I experiencedthat real world.
I could go get the theory, applyit with the practical and didn't
have luggage that many students unfortunately have.
And the key there, I think, is understanding the real world
before you start paying to be inthe real world because like
Hexter is a massive conversationin in my age group at the

(08:15):
moment. I have friends who might have
one forever, I'm not sure. But yeah, I can't wait.
Like I'm nearly through it and it's great.
But if exactly like that would be my I don't have children, but
when I do, that's what I would be encouraging.
Oh, totally. I, I'm with you.
Like, I mean, even just like thelike we talk about building
property portfolios or, or growing well, like just to have

(08:38):
that baggage in your borrowing capacity, like that hurts.
And that actually doesn't hurt in your earlier years.
It hurts as your income grows because the way banks look at
Hicks is they go, well, as your income's high, your payments
technically more. So we'll ping you more for it.
And so I just think, yeah, if I would do it all over again, I'd
do the exact same thing. Work, get reality, learn, have

(08:58):
rejection, have success, have the, the days where you, you
work a little bit, the other days where you work a lot and
you see the impact and the output that you get from doing
this. And then if you get stuck and
you need that label, go chase it, but without the luggage.
And at the time you, you've obviously picked the path that I
think probably a lot of Australians now with a big hex
is gone. Wish I'd have done that, but no

(09:20):
one knew, right? No, no.
Yeah, it was by chance for me. Right.
I was going to say you did it bychance.
Yeah, so and it's worked out great.
Now, is that what you're sharingwith people and your knowledge
that is you would 100% encourage?
You know, you guys have actuallyraised some good questions here.
Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever mentioned

(09:41):
it to anyone outside of a close circle.
If I have been on a podcast or anything where I've said that,
great. But I, I don't think I have.
And now that you say that you'vereminded me of doing this, I'm
going to actually actively sharethat a lot more because I'm
surprised why I haven't. But also so many young adults
are out there, like, you know, going to go through this phase.
And if they knew what I'd learned, they would come out the

(10:04):
other side with a whole bunch oflife experiences because they
could have travelled a bit more fun with the job and actually
having the money to go and do stuff rather than backpack
everywhere and and struggle at sometimes, even though there's
fun parts to that. Then the second part is have the
the studying, but without the luggage of debt against your
name and then the whole chicken of the egg, right?
Work or or actual knowledge, which comes first?

(10:26):
Well, you get both this way. Get the knowledge 1st through
actual work experience, and thenyou get the real knowledge on
the the theory side as well. So now that you say that, I'm
going to do a bit more of a job to share that more because I
haven't haven't shared that before.
It's like I said, a big topic inour friendship group and that's
probably why I've got a bit passionate about it.
But it's, it's, it's so interesting because there's
different levels that you don't understand that it's going to

(10:47):
affect how you buy property or your lending power, I guess.
And you also don't understand how much it impacts and grows
over time. I think there's not enough, I
guess, learnings around Hecs before you dive into it, before
you've even understood the real world. 100%, I'm with you,
totally with you. So you're seeing people, you're

(11:08):
seeing, you know, unassuming people with great property
portfolios. When do you start to build
yours? Like when?
When do you dive in? Age 22 and I was very fortunate
to not be at it alone. So my partner and I, us two had
gotten, you know, gotten the first time together.
And so that was about 40-50 KS out northwest of Sydney, which

(11:31):
is another thing to make mentionof.
Sometimes people think property investing or property purchasing
because that was a for one for for us to live in is very out of
reach. But it's also about the context
of knowing your dream home is inyour today or your first time.
And so that wasn't in the suburbI was renting at the suburb I

(11:51):
was renting is a beautiful placecalled Surrey Hills.
Like that's a top spot here in Sydney.
But you think I'm going to buy in Surrey Hills as a 22 year old
for the 1st place. Get out of here, right.
And so I, I had to go 50 kilometres out or 40 to 50
kilometres out in northwest of Sydney.
And we bought a place. So that was the first one.
And from there, the the bug kindof kicked in because you're now

(12:13):
actually feeling it and seeing it for your own true eyes rather
than, you know, seeing others doit and see others go through the
journey. And it wasn't long after when we
jumped into investing. Yeah, nice.
So you moved in as an owner rockinto your first investment,
Yeah. And then you guys would just
keep working, grinding it out and then that opened your eyes
into an investment property and so on and so forth.

(12:36):
Absolutely. So the the time of investing
kicked up again because of the whole seeing our customers do it
at CBA. And I actually ran into someone
who was a professional who just started their property in a
journey as a professional and they've done a lot.
They're aged 2829 at the time. And so for me to link up with
them happens because of the field of work I'm in.

(12:56):
Being in a bank branch, you're actually serving customers,
seeing their portfolios. And I mentioned this again, the
word curiosity. You'd be surprised how many
people across Australia have access to the information that
I've just shared with you that Ihad, you know, just come bank
alone, I think they have over 50,000 employees.
Why isn't there 50,000 plus people with successful multi

(13:17):
figure portfolios? Because that curiosity, I truly
believe is the extra part, like people finishing work, clocking
off or people just going, may I help you, please, next, please.
Off you go, right. Just the, the power in front of
you, like even just every littlemoment, like now we're capturing
the podcast, the different guests you have on.
There's so much like knowledge sharing we all can do.

(13:40):
And so that was the world I was in.
And that's what really picked upthe investing side for me.
Now, on that investing side, I do want to also make one thing
really open for everyone is thatI never shy away from saying
that I actually had a pretty good income at that age.
And sometimes too often people make it out as if you can do
everything on the the smallest wage possible.

(14:00):
And that makes stories sexy, right?
You know how someone who works at KFC and buys a property
portfolio builds a property for some of the dominoes or some?
These are great, you know, stories to have.
They sound sexy, but I'm here totell you, like when you're
really starting to build wealth and momentum with your wealth,
income needs to be in that mix. And so as much as you want to be

(14:21):
a property nerd and be into the property, also be a career nerd
and into growth, skill sets, communication, mentors,
coaching. So I think all of that stuff
played into the property portfolio building because I
don't act like I was that 22 year old.
And then the small wage that, you know, we earned it.

(14:42):
We worked our butt off people. People went to the bank at the 9
to Fives we started. And before the branch even
opened, if you'd see a little light on at Surrey Hills, that
was me at 7:00 AM coming in early to do work.
And if you saw the lights still on at 10:00 PM, that was me.
They're sitting there doing worklate after hours as well.
So I just want to share that too. 100 percentage, I think
that's great insights. And, you know, we deal in

(15:02):
property and property developingourselves and that sort of
thing. And it's all it's all romantic
and sexy. But when you speak to people and
they sort of want to get out of the, you know, the grind, it's
sort of like you're going to need the grind for a long time.
Like you're going to need that cash flow.
The bank's going to need to see that cash flow so you can play
this game. So, yeah, so definitely, you

(15:23):
know, have your goals and and set your goals and trying to
achieve them. But but that cash flow is is
never more important than building portfolios, playing the
property ladder and property developing and that sort of
stuff. Talk to us about your time at
your time at CBA because you'll eventually leave CBA, but talk
to us where that where that got to.

(15:44):
So that got to a role in the thehead office.
And I think that was actually a big part of me leaving too,
because when you'd been for about 80% of my banking career
in the frontline, meeting families, seeing people leading
a team of, you know, 30 plus at the time.
And then you go to a role where you're in that one of one role
and you have one lead and it's you only you feel quite
isolated. And then when you've got all

(16:05):
these thoughts and ideas of how you could help people with the
ideas at the corporate level andyou realize it's not as easy as
just applying them. You've got to go through
relationships and shoulder rubbing, stakeholder management,
pitching your ideas, knowing that you're probably 1 out of 20
people in the queue pitching their ideas.
So be be patient and realizing that what you thought you could

(16:28):
do in a year actually is going to be a 5 to 6 year journey
before things start flowing through.
And I think that had a bit of emptiness inside of me too.
So it made me consider like reviewing the whole situation to
go, do I keep at this or do I think of something else?
And then took me back to the times at home around the dining
table. And my dad, he's been a business
owner his whole life, except formaybe the few earlier parts of

(16:50):
his years. And he's a mechanic.
So fixing cars, that's his thing.
So I've been around cars the whole life, don't know how to
fix one at all. I could, you know, someone could
RIP me off a premium air and a tire, if I'm honest.
But he at the he at the dining table always made it where this
the time control, the the decision control that he had.

(17:13):
I found that was like always quite evident.
And he, even though, you know, he wasn't by any means earning
the big bucks, he was someone that you could always feel like
he was his own boss. He felt pretty proud of that.
And I didn't do it for those reasons, but I did do it for
reasons where I remember sittingdown.

(17:34):
It's like, Dad, what if you did with this with the business?
And what if you did that with the business?
So what I did it for the reasonswe're going, you have a lot more
control of your own success and failures.
Don't get me wrong, your successand failures are in your hands,
but to know that controls there where you can really put it back
into your hands and and do something with it.
That was a big moment for me to go and look at my wife and go,
hey, I've always wanted to be inbusiness.

(17:55):
My dad's been in there. I want to be honest though, got
no clue what I'm going to do. She's like no clue.
I'm like no clue. She's like, I want to just wait
at CBA, figure it out and you can go from there.
I'm not wide like that. I feel like I'm borderline
cheating on CBA if I sit there trying to plan my exit whilst
I'm collecting a wage from them and meant to be helping their

(18:15):
customers. And so I just said to my boss, I
was like, hey, look, I can give you 8 weeks notice, not four.
And they're like, why? You're going to Westpac, you're
going somewhere else. So no, no, no, I'm literally
just leaving. I have no clue what I'm going to
do. I've got a couple of random
thoughts and ideas, but nothing concrete.
And then I'd left work 2018, jumped on a plane to travel a
bit just to, you know, get that,get that in my system, and came

(18:37):
up with the idea of the back of all the water cooler talks that
I had with people about my own portfolio, that I should help
others do the same. Yeah, amazing.
So you took the leap of faith. Your partner backed you in.
Absolutely. And then what is, I guess, what
does that look like? Do you, you know, come up with
an idea? You go travelling, you know,
talk us through that. Yeah, so travelling is the first

(18:58):
thing. So I'm a huge basketball fan.
So the first thing I do is like,I'm like, I've always wanted to
go watch LeBron James live. And so I went over to LA, had
some family there that definitely helped me because all
that money went into a ticket tothe game.
So I'm glad family was there. And you can just crash at
someone's couch, which is great.Are you solo on this trip?
Me and my mum. So mum took her with me at the

(19:19):
same time because I don't think I was going to probably be good
staying with that family unless I'd bought mum there because she
had much closer relationships with them.
And so I was like, OK, if I can have the mum intro first to make
it warmer. And I was like, hey guys, me and
mum are coming over. Oh, auntie's coming over.
Yes, I'm in, I'm in. So I crashed in, watched LeBron
James, just super cool. And from there I did a bit more

(19:41):
travelling to Bali, Vietnam, back home to New Zealand.
And it's actually in the Bali trip.
I think it was when my partner, she managed to come through for
one of them and she said, hey, you know, you're not yourself.
I'm like, what do you mean? She goes, well, you just did 7
or 8 excursions in this one day.I'm like, well, yeah, isn't it
fun? She goes, you just booking them

(20:01):
because you're like. Trying to get through time and
just trying to do them for the sake of doing them.
Like you're not even having a moment to like, like enjoy it or
talk about it. You're just going from
adrenaline thing to adrenaline thing.
I was like, yeah, that's not me.Usually you do one or two things
in a day, You chill out, you soak it up.
That was great fun. But I was just trying to book
after book and I realized that the mental stimulus just
constantly needed something. And that was a clear sign for

(20:23):
me. About two months into
travelling, I think it was Marchto May, where I realized I
needed to get into something. So we booked the flight back.
And on the flight back, I was writing on napkins, writing on
notes, and just realized how much I loved, you know, doing
what I was doing for my own portfolio and how much I loved
helping people. I'd use up my whole lunch breaks
at work just to talk to my colleague about, you know, what

(20:44):
they do and how they should get their portfolio going.
And this was without even me going to get my food.
And I love my food. And so I'm just, like, sitting
there and just talking through me like, you're going to eat
something. I was like, oh, shit, I got to
go back. OK, no, I won't have time.
I'll eat afterwards. So I was that, you know, into
it, that I wanted to just do that.
And so that made perfect sense for me to attack that world.
Yeah, nice. So what did, what did that look

(21:06):
like starting out into that? You know, you get back with your
partner back into Australia, youknow, you know, building,
building this platform like where you know, where, how does
someone start that? Yeah.
So I kick off investigate and the main part of kicking it off
was I sense there was a lack of data-driven property purchasing
in Australia. So there was you know, now that

(21:28):
that's a theme that's used often, but back at six years ago
there was maybe a couple operators at most that really
said, hey, down to the to the actual bone.
We are data-driven. And when I looked at my own
portfolio and I looked at the decisions that I'd made well
versus the ones that didn't go so well, that was the core
difference. And so I can remember one

(21:48):
particular purchase where I put that data-driven approach to the
test. It was 2017 and at that time all
my mates were calling me mad fornot buying a Sydney or Melbourne
property and what they didn't know was that during that time
in 2017 I thought based on the data that Tassie was looking
really good, in particular Bernie in Tasmania.

(22:11):
So craziest deal yet to date in My Portfolio.
A block of four units for $365,000 renting at the time for
maybe 8 or 900 or 7 or 800 a week.
So which was mental like 10% plus yields.
And so from there the Sydney market peaks, doesn't really
grow at all, goes backwards in fact for 18 and 19 and then

(22:32):
recovers in 2021 and not much growth during that five year
period. If you're in 2017, we're even
pre that COVID boom, this assetsalready doubled to over 700.
And so that was the moment for me to realize, hey, like there's
something in this data-driven approach that if we can really
replicate this again and again from our own portfolio, which I
did and do it for others, that would be something I feel I

(22:56):
could help many with. So that was the business journey
backed on that principle. In terms of mistakes though, at
the start, like I remember launching it and I tried to be
this one stop shop right at the start, but then I forgot you
can't do a one stop shop when it's only one of one, like one
person trying to do everything. So I was trying to help people
out with finance, help people out with, you know, guidance on

(23:17):
their banking and everyday stuff.
And then like, OK, how do I do now property buying onto that?
How do I do other stuff? And that was just a nightmare.
And so about three to six monthsinto that, I realized that that
wasn't going to work and I pulled it back to just my core
buyers agency for the investors.Yeah, nice one.
So the Bernie at least to know someone from Bernie.
But talk to us high level for everyone playing along at home.

(23:40):
Why Bernie? Yeah.
So and this will fade into obviously your product and
platform you do today, but but why were you on there and
everyone else obviously was a bit more potentially blue chip,
you know capital cities. Absolutely.
So one thing the beauty of beingfrom New Zealand is, you know,
every city in Australia is massive to us, right?
So when you guys think, oh blue chip big cities like to me like

(24:04):
maybe Coffs Harbour or a small town of Burney with 30 or 40,000
people, that was, that was an auntie's hometown in New
Zealand. That was a big spot to me.
That was where we'd go out, havea pie, have Breaky, sit down,
play at the park, go home. Like to me, that was a city.
And so I never looked at cities in Australia with the label the
same way the Aussies do. Aussies go regional capital.

(24:24):
We don't even have that word. Like we don't even use that.
We. Just come in with clear lenses.
Absolutely. We just say the city's name.
If the city's got 20,000 people,it's still the name.
That's just the name. That's what it is.
It's a city to us. And so as a result, that was the
first part having no bias, having no kind of rule out of so
many metrics just because you have a rule.
And so then the second part camesomething called market pressure

(24:46):
analysis, which is one of the core fundamentals I live by
today. And the idea of market pressure
analysis was you're not able to say the data of an area is good
unless firstly you can explain it super simply.
If I, if I can't explain it overa podcast or have lunch that I
don't really know it that well or I'm overcomplicating it and
it's never going to get down to something.

(25:06):
And So what I thought to myself was, OK, there's never been a
time in history where this has happened and the market's
declined. And I'll tell you what it is.
Properties selling faster, vendors going and sitting there
and not giving discounts, more people purchasing, less
properties available for sale, less properties constructed,

(25:30):
less properties available for rent, all of these things
together. There's never been a time where
that's all happened and the market goes down.
And this now was just me explaining in a sentence with no
metrics. But now if I go days on market
declining, vendor discounting declining, sales volume
increasing, listing levels declining, building approvals as

(25:51):
a proportion of percentage of stock in the area declining and
low vacancy rates declining. So if someone shows you that in
the metrics world now and shows you all the charts to to
visualize that, all of a sudden you go, this place is looking
good. But the idea is that if you just
move all the metrics and the thedifficulty of like analysis and
people who hear these terms thatgo shut off.
This is jargon for me. I can't do that.

(26:13):
And you just speak in perfect sentence just where you go break
it down in simple words like that.
No one will tell me that market will decline if I say that to
them. Same thing goes in the opposite.
Hardly anyone's transacting. People are taking ages to sell.
Vendors are slashing off the back of their listing prices.
Lots of properties available forrent, lots going through
construction, and lots of properties available for sale.

(26:36):
One person and no one in this room will ever say that market's
going to boom. And so the idea was if I applied
the same methodology and there were a few more metrics beyond
that, these are just the most simplified versions.
You can go into auction clearance raids and you can go
to stock on market percentages and go deeper.
But just those basic metrics told me that if that's happening
or trending to it, starting it or having it for a while, just

(26:59):
the deeper it is in that phase, the more prices are going up.
The same can be said for all thecapitals in recent times that
have been booming. Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, take
all those five metrics there, plug them into there and I doubt
one of them aren't having that. They would have all 5.
So that was the big part that Bernie was starting to show.
These five come together and theboom happens.

(27:20):
Yeah, nice. And then you pull that together
on investigate. Absolutely.
Now it's about going, can we give the data more confidence?
So 5 indicators becomes 20 becomes 30, you know, just
indicators now looks at influences at an economic level.
And then now it looks at how do you measure this on the ground
so it's not just on a spreadsheet.
And so it just became actually commercializing it by being more

(27:42):
thorough rather than a BBQ conversation.
And that's where the difference make it happened.
And so, you know, going on that time period, there's been a
substantial outperformance against the national average as
a result of this formula. And that's helped us a lot.
Yeah. Amazing.
So how do you go and do that? Right?
You've worked at CBI building a platform, like I've got a guy
over there who builds our platforms, but how does ARJ go

(28:05):
and build a platform that that you know can can do what it's
doing now? I think it's been the
Australia's Buyers Agency of theyear 2 consecutive years
running. What do you do?
You go find a developer. You tell him what you want to
do. Yeah, it's been a bit of
everything, so. And you sole own sole owner.
Yeah, I'm a sole owner. So it's been now six years of
doing this. And as you pointed out, the last

(28:26):
two years we're very, very humble to take home.
Actually, that's never been donein history as well, by the way,
that two years in a row for our awards.
So we took that home over the last two and it's been a
journey. So what started off back of the,
you know, napkins on the plane calcs or in my home turned into
basic spreadsheets, basic spreadsheets turned into more

(28:48):
formulas. Formulas on the Excel started to
turn into more independent research and guidance across
other researchers coming in alongside of formulas.
And now we've got a data scientist, a senior research
analyst myself is the head of research research analyst as
well. So put it all together, there's
upwards of half $1,000,000 in spend each year in that research
and data division. And the key there is that like,

(29:11):
you know, when we built this business and when I say we like
I was always want to give a shout out to my wife because
that wouldn't have happened unless unless she helped her.
But when when we started this off, the main thing I want to
point out is like the same way we invested in property and you
have it for compounding wealth as a core principle, the same
thing you do in business. So whatever we had as the winds

(29:32):
on the board, we put it back into the engine room.
Like shame on me if six years later I'm still running off my
same spreadsheet as 2018, right?Shame on you if six years later
I'm the main data guy. Six years later, no, there's
people smarter than me and there's a lot of people smarter
than me on this, on this planet.And then, you know, shame on me
six years later, if I'm sitting there trying to do every sales,
call myself, every purchase myself, every negotiation

(29:54):
myself, that's selfish. If I know I've got a winning
formula that can help people, I need to grow a business.
I can help more Aussies. I need to grow a team around me
so I can help more Aussies and that was the whole formula that
got to where we are today. How, how do you get your first
client? Like it's obviously you and your
spreadsheets, just you and your spreadsheets.
How do you go? And.
How do you go and find your first client and that client has

(30:15):
faith in you to pay you to do what you do?
It's a good question. So for me, I think I'm a big
believer of before I go and sellsomething, I must do something.
And so by the time I'd actually kicked off the business, we had
nine properties together, my wife and I, and it was like
2018, so six years ago. So 2018 we had nine properties

(30:38):
together. So whilst the number isn't the
main thing for everyone, it was a start to say we'd had the
practice personally. We're across multiple States and
we'd given it a go and achieved a result that my bosses, bosses
were going, how did you do that?And they're on double the wicket
than I was. So I think something special was
there for a few close people around me to start going, hey,

(30:59):
I'll back you. So I can still remember.
There's a few CBA colleagues whoactually supported me as my
first clients, forever thankful to them.
They kicked it all off and they trusted me back in the days in
2018 where headless chicken running around trying to do
everything. One minute I'm taking a video
for content, one minute I'm jumping here.
Like everything possible one person could do, I was trying to
do. Yeah, nice.

(31:20):
How? I'm interested.
Early on you figured out you couldn't do everything, so you
dialed it back into the to the core, which was the buyers
agency. You do that all over the
country. Yeah.
How do you need boots on the ground for that?
Or are you doing it from from your post, phone calls, emails?
Make sure of both. Make sure of both.
So we got the boots on the ground.

(31:41):
We conduct regular field trips across the country for areas we
want to onboard. We've got people spread across
the country in different states.We've got relationships as well
on the ground too. So it really mixes depending on
the locations. You have some locations who are
more heavily weighted than others.
But yeah, it's turned into a national team now, 40, and we're
growing probably about three to five people, 1/4.

(32:02):
And so, yeah, it's been pretty special.
Amazing, That's awesome. Where do you get your clients
from? Now it's.
Sort of funnels and advertising and all that sort of stuff, you
know, because like Claire said, you're your first client.
But now how do you keep that that pipeline full and full of
quality? Yeah, it's a good question.
I've got a few strategies on that.
So the first one is that, look, the basics of business is if you

(32:25):
do it well, people talk, right? That's.
The first one, so repeat. Yeah, yeah, absolute.
So repeat referrals, word of mouth.
So that's the first, first stageof, of growth.
The next one is I've taken a fewthings from people I've learned
along the way in advertising where essentially if you say
have a revenue goal that you want to increase every year and
instead of using dollar based targets for how much you

(32:49):
advertise, use percentage base. So for example, if our revenue
goals say you know, $12 million and with $12 million of your
annual revenue goal, and if you attach a 10% of revenue I put
towards marketing, that's $1.2 million you have as a marketing
budget. But the trick is to not do it
that year. Because if it's July 1st and you

(33:09):
have a $12 million goal, you're now having a bigger marketing
budget than last year. And so then June 30th, you're
about to have say a $16,000,000 goal.
The next year before July 1st kicks off, you've increased your
marketing budget from 1.2 to 1.6.
So if you work in the percentageterms, everything grows with
you. And that's something that people
often scared to do because many people look at marketing as a

(33:32):
way of what's the least I have to do to get the most outcome.
Whereas for me, my brains wide differently, which is saying I
already know for me to help manyAustralian families with the
formula I have, that's winning, I need to get more attention.
And if I can get more attention,I can help more families.
And so the idea there is that byJune 30th, I've already
increased my budget as a percentage and I'm committing to

(33:52):
more. I'm not going to pretend here
I'm a genius that I know how to do and spend that money
effectively. Some of that's gone down the
toilet like horrible campaigns and it just made no difference.
Some of that's gone really, really well.
But if every year your mind and your goal is aiming for more and
you work to percentages, not dollars, you're just going to
keep learning more and more and testing more and more.

(34:12):
And that's just like property. You notice the theme
compounding. My marketing budget's
compounding, My goals are compounding.
So everything's lifting there. So I'd say that's probably the
biggest X Factor because everyone can say great service,
look after your customers well, like no shit, if you don't do
that, you're not going to have abusiness, right?
So just do that really well. And yes, there's levels to that
too. But commit to a bigger goal,

(34:34):
attach a percentage to it, and unintentionally, your engine
room grows. So you just keep reinvesting,
understanding, understanding your CAC, your customer
acquisition and Justice keep putting fuel on the fire to keep
that growth rather than sitting the marketing budget there
thinking it's done a good job last year, but then not
reinvesting and not raising the level there through through a

(34:56):
percentage formula like you say you you think it's a mistake.
Absolutely. And I've even put bandwidth
there as well. So 10 to 15% to me is like
you're in a growth phase sort offive to 10% as you're
maintaining last year's results,because remember the cost of
everything goes up as well. So 5 to 10% as you're
maintaining and zero to 5% as you're in this testing grounds.
You may be new to marketing, you're not sure how to do this
right. Attack the percentage is what's

(35:18):
right for you. For us, it's 15% because we know
we've got that formula. So it's just about helping more
people. So it's like 15% of any revenue
goal putting it back into marketing.
Love it, love it. How do you charge?
Fee for service, fixed fee. Half of it upfront, half of it
upon success, and then it gets lower for repeat clients.
Gotcha, gotcha. And what is what is that fee?

(35:38):
Is that fee state by state or isthat cross street?
No, it's, it's one fee. So it's $20,000 including GST.
Yep, half of that's upfront, half upon success.
And then when customers repeat with us, it's 15K instead of 20.
So they they get that repeat like journey with us because
they've, you know, they're valued even more.
Why is it fixed and not a percentage?
Because obviously some buyers advocates do a percentage based
on the type of property. Why do you do fixed?

(36:00):
Yeah, I think some people have it as a business choice.
Other people decide to, I guess they see that maybe a 2345
million dollar property in theireyes might be more work, it
might be an owner occupier and that's usually the biggest
difference. Most owner occupier buyers
agents will charge percentages of fees.
We do charge percentage on our commercial transactions 'cause I

(36:22):
have noticed as the volume of purchase price gets bigger, you
know, you're really doing way more work than you are in a
smaller deal and there's way more tenancies attached to a
commercial purchase. There might be more, you know,
deeper tenants that have like bigger tenants that have got
complex lease agreements and complex terms and structures.
So I find from a perspective of commercial that goes up, but I'm

(36:42):
not residential for investment. We've always been a percentage
and like I think I'm not a percentage of fixed fee, but I
think the fixed fee model for residential investment.
Why I've liked that is that every customer that comes
through your door, whether that's an 18 year old, 22 year
old first time investor buying a400K property because they're
trying to get their phone in themarket or whether it's a mature
couple in their 40s going, hey, we're after our 6th purchase

(37:03):
because we've done well in life and everything's going great.
They're all the same to me. I, I love you always.
I'm going to look after you always.
I'm going to make sure that you're going to get the best of
our team to to get your first property, even if it's your 6th
or 7th. So that 18 year old, is it just
obviously 20 grand is a lot of money, especially if it is your
first property and you're in your early 20s or 18.

(37:26):
Is it, do you think it's worth it even if it's your first
property versus maybe a 40 year old could afford you or that 20
grand a lot easier because it might be their 5th property.
Should someone be saving that extra money and spending it on
yourself or should they be putting it into a property?
Firstly. Saladage, here we go.

(37:48):
Man. Dial in on this Bonnie.
Firstly, I'm going to admit by saying I'm biased in answering
this question, right? Like if, if I'm going to say to
everyone, I'm here to help you, I know we can help you come
through, right? So the main thing is this, let
me explain it by story instead of like yes or no.
There are two clients that come to mind and one of them by the
name of Simon. In 2019, Simon, young guy in

(38:13):
Brisbane, early 20s. He was maybe I think on 55 to 65
K income at that time and no properties and he was looking to
get his first place. He'd spoken to two buyer's
agents at that time who said your budget's not big enough,
the dollars you have isn't big enough, go away, save some more

(38:34):
comeback. He's spoken to me now there's
two avenues. Firstly, I'd purchased
affordable properties here, so Iknew that you could still buy
affordable ones and go along OK.But the second is, I'm not going
to lie, 1819, I was a new business owner and I was like,
hey, come on through, I'll help you, right.
So that, that passion that like the fuels there, he trusted me

(38:54):
to help him at that time. And essentially, I think with
his deposit, he was putting a massive amount.
So think about it as almost 10% of the purchase price he's going
to put towards us to be a professional supporter now, he
had three decisions, buy on his own, don't buy it all or buy
with us. He bought with us a property in
Brisbane for $265,000. Western Brisbane.

(39:17):
That property now is valued at almost $600,000 and there hasn't
been any major renos, anything like that.
And that property there, he looks back at it and goes to me.
ARJ I'm so, so glad we did that.And the key thing is had he just
stayed and said not going to do anything because it's too
expensive, I don't have enough money.
Everyone says don't buy, don't buy until you can have a bigger
budget. He would have missed the booms

(39:39):
ahead of them because the property market's moving at this
pace. His income, his savings is
moving at that pace. And so I think that was the big
factor, the fact that you could have an accountability partner
to make sure it happens, get theright research.
So you could go anywhere in the nation to make it happen to your
budget, but also markets that are likely to grow and then have
the confidence to go, at least I'm not making the mistake.

(40:00):
It's someone else if they stuff it up, it's someone else if they
get it right and help me. And I'll, I'll gladly take that
that win if they can help me there.
And we helped him with that. Now following that, even on a
lower income, he took equity outof that.
The rental income grew. That helped him with his
borrowing capacity. The yield on the next purchase
was quite high as well. And we bought him a property for

(40:21):
mid threes in Bundaberg which isnow worth in the fives and so.
Nowhere near 6 figures is his income, but here he is sitting
with hundreds of thousands of dollars of equity simply because
he took that journey. And so that's Simon.
Another example is Lorna. This is someone where where they
didn't actually come in and you know, grab help from you to

(40:41):
begin with. They probably did what most
people do. Hey, I don't want to spend
20,000 on a professional. I'll go do it myself.
She did it herself and in 2016, I think it was or 14, she'd
bought a unit for herself because you don't, you don't
need a professional there. There's enough of them out
there. Number 2 is she also bought a
property for herself being that unit where she didn't have to
spend on professionals because it first property 400 and

(41:04):
something $1000 in purchase pricing is like 420.
That property's still worth in the four hundreds today and it's
almost eight years now. She came to us in 2019 saving,
saving away. And you know, during that time
from 2014 to 2019, she could have bought multiple properties
in her own. But once you make a bad
decision, you get scarred just the like inaction that happens

(41:27):
after being scarred with a bad decision.
Even if you just had to go one right turn instead of left and
you could have been fine, you just stay paralysed.
And so she stayed paralysed for about 5 years, saving away money
into offsets, saving away singleperson good job growing up her
career. So that was one benefit.
She was focusing on her career, not focusing on anything else.

(41:48):
And then we stumbled upon each other from her mortgage broker,
introduced it, same conversation.
Not so sure about property, not so sure about your fees.
Because I'd gone in and bought aproperty and hasn't done
something for me. So who are you to get something
now and make it all magical? We'd bought her a property in
Brisbane, another one in Adelaide, then another one in
Adelaide, another one in Bendigoand regional Victoria.

(42:10):
And she's made over $1.1 millionin equity in five years on a
single income. Right?
Like that is game changing. So we bought in multiple
properties and that all happenedbecause she decided to get that
professional on the side in 2019versus she could have just kept
paying it off and, you know, sunken in the sort of tears and
the sorrows of that property andhad nothing.

(42:31):
So I'd say that yes, the fees a lot, right?
But at the same time, I know that from that that difference
it can make to the couple in their 40s who've got multiple
properties and they need the theright strategy.
Some couples we've told don't buy any more.
One more is enough for you because it meets your goals for
what you're trying to hit. And then for others, it's been
those Simons and Lorners who on their first income and their

(42:52):
first jobs or their first sort of properties or no properties
of Simon's case, had they not had us on their team, he would
have missed the boom completely and she would have sat there
just paying off 1 unit that hasn't grown in eight years and
just sat there and kept paying it off.
So that's the difference you canmake for people's lives when you
get it done right. Happy with that?
Happy with that, OK. And amazing and love it and, and

(43:14):
yeah, for for you to be able to sit there and genuinely help
people and push people off the line to make reasonably smart
decisions and put themselves in the way of good fortune.
Yeah, it's a, you know, it's a great, it's a great story.
Can we look at, because all thissuccess and and all the fun
stuff is all great, but if you haven't got your health, none of

(43:34):
none of that matters. That's my little segue Bunny,
into where I want to go. But recently you've had a health
scare and no doubt it would haveput things into perspective.
Can you talk to us, talk us through that?
Yeah, it's it's crazy. So age 32 now and 2024 June, I
go in for open heart surgery. And the craziest thing is I find

(43:57):
it out simply through applying for life insurance and getting
declined for cover. So like you're like, why am I
getting declined? And this is the crazy thing.
I actually look back at that journey and I realized, you
know, I wouldn't have had to take tests for insurance if I
wasn't a big boy. But because I was a bit
overweight, I had to take tests.So now I kind of look at it like
this. So I go, I'm glad I had the

(44:19):
extra slices of pizza. I'm glad I had the extra
doughnuts lifted up Uber Eats pump in my house or the, you
know, the food. I'm glad I went overseas and
travelled and ate and drank and did all the good stuff because
had I not reached that weight threshold, I wouldn't have had
the tests. I would have just been powered
through in the insurance becauseyou're meeting all parameters,

(44:40):
you don't get any tests and you go through.
So the fact that I had to get all those tests saved my life
and the doctor told me I would have been a couple of years at
Max to still be alive because ofa severely enlarged heart.
For those in the medical world tuning in, my heart had reached
a size of 73 millimetres and thenormal range is 45 to 50.

(45:01):
And so the heart was stuffed pretty much.
And so leaking issues causing all of this and rushed for
surgery came out the other side.But look, reflecting on that
journey, you're spot on. You don't have any of this if
you, if you don't have your health.
But the two to three biggest take outs from it, we're number
one, get yourself checked. And, and even if you like hear

(45:22):
the story and you go, I'm going to get insurance to protect
myself. No, even better than that.
Just get yourself checked because that's the biggest
thing. And now I'm a huge advocate for
sharing that today. I want to make that very clear
to everyone tuning in an echocardiogram.
That's what I did. You get it from your GP
referral. You go into the radiologist, you
get a scan. It's not dangerous.
It's just an ultrasound of your chest and there's that bit of a

(45:45):
sticky gel afterwards. It's annoying, but other than
that, it's good. And you get that test done and
you just make sure that your heart's not leaking, you're not
having any blockages, you're nothaving abnormal shape.
And if you get that done and youcome out sweet, brilliant.
But that was what I did. That was the first big take out.
The second biggest take out is like how short life is because

(46:09):
to be told, you know, you have acouple of years, best case if
you know, if you don't do the surgery and with the surgery
itself, I'm still not on the full clear.
I'm about sort of 75% there. I'm still have a bit of recovery
to go, but that made me realize just how much I wanted to give
things to go with family. So we've got a freaking epic
trip coming out, you know, in November, we're heading out to

(46:33):
Turkey and a few other places. And that too, comes from losing
my mom about four years ago. My dad take him on a trip every
November for his birthday just to be closer with the old man
and spend some good time with them.
But that's the second, second big take out.
But the third and final thing toshare with you is that as a
result of having that procedure,I have had my business

(46:53):
astronomically grow like astronomical.
And why I feel that is, is when your back's against the wall,
you make decisions that the minddoesn't normally decide to make.
So a few months prior that heartsurgery, I was looking at the
business and one of two things are flowing through my mind.

(47:13):
I'm going to just crumble everything down to the smallest
shop I can, look after a few close clients, lose dozens of
jobs and just go, OK, I'm here. I'll look after who I can.
I don't want to take any risks of employees.
Anyone's family's lives should be impacted by me.
I want to softly see them away. And I'm going to make this
business tiny and just go back to a lean machine and, and see

(47:36):
how long I live and, and go withthe flow.
Or the opposite was I'm going togive life a freaking go.
I'm going, I know I can help people.
I've proven it hundreds of times.
You know, the industry thinks itfrom the awards we've won our
clients thinking from their advocacy, Our team thinks it
from how much they want to help our clients even join our team.
1/3 of my client team is clients.
And so like, I knew something's there.

(47:59):
And that's when I decided to go,OK, we're going to go all out.
So the months before the surgery, I realized if I'm going
to be out for two to three months, I'm going to build a
leadership team. Sales manager, general manager,
head of acquisitions, senior research analyst, senior
portfolio strategist, head of technology, head of operations,

(48:20):
all of the most fastest recruitment campaigns we could
get in to get the top dogs across this place.
Hired headhunters to go. I want that person, I want this
person, I want the best in this industry come to our team.
Then to go empowering your team because to go from a small
business operator where like everything's your baby and
everything, like you get micro on, you get annoyed with because

(48:42):
you don't want that to happen. To just go like I might not come
out of this operation. There's a high chance of death
here. There's a high chance of this or
that. I just want to give this all to
you. You guys do this to sit down and
write contingency plans. If I don't make it out of live,
I want this to happen, this to happen.
The company and this is I figured out all these formulas
to have it going and growing as a legacy business.
Even if I did pop in that surgery table, that was the best

(49:04):
thing ever. Because now I come back and I'm
looking at my team and I go, wow, I'm so proud of you guys to
like see what you're building, see the customers lives you're
impacting. The reviews keep pouring in.
The customers are happy, My team's culture and energies
alive. They're doing better than what I
think I would have done had I stayed as their core leader and
run it all just because there's better people leading the team

(49:24):
than than I am, right? And so I've now come in in ACEO
position. I, I need one leader to help the
rest of the team lead and how like how good's that as well?
From like a, you know, time management to go from having
over 25 to 30 plus reports direct to yourself to not having
a singular direct report and empowering your team to make the
best that they can do for their customers.

(49:46):
And they want to do a good job now.
Like they don't want it to be like a, a 20 year plan.
They want the best now so that that's the all you could ask
for. So I don't know, had that scare,
none of this would have happened.
I would have been casually goingthrough it one by one, overly
perfectionist and I wouldn't have gotten to where we are
today. Now our business is an 8 on on

(50:07):
track for well into the 8 figures and you know, double our
double what we did last year. Customer reviews are coming in
double the pace as they were now.
We're trying to do history on top of history and go to be a
three times buyers agency of theyear rather than just two, which
would be super tough, but I knowthe squad can do it like that.
That heart surgery has opened upeverything like my possibilities

(50:28):
now are, I hear, just because ofthe right people in our team.
What was the timeline between the scare and the actual
surgery? Started this year.
So I, I'd say I think the, the, the decline for cover came last
year and then the scare for it all right at the start of this
year. So I'd say now coming to 8
months between the moment to know it and where we are today.

(50:49):
Yeah. OK.
So you made all those big changes to the business in about
8 months? Rapid.
I think that happened within onemonth and to.
Find the right people. Like we know how hard it is to
get the right people and the process in finding the right
people. That's really impressive.
Can you explain the moment that you've had that scare like you
got, who told you? How did you find out?

(51:11):
Like what? What went through your head?
Who did? Who did you tell once, Once you
got told? I can remember.
So I was at home and I got the news on the decline cover and
when I got the news on the decline cover, I was just told
that I should go and see a doctor.

(51:32):
Was the decline for to do the test or the decline was after
the test? I had a stress test 1st and they
was that's the running on the treadmill stuff which I would
have failed even with a healthy heart to be honest.
That shit's hard, Kyle. You won't catch me running
anywhere. And I failed that one.
And then they said something came up.
Go get an echocardiogram. Your covers decline now until

(51:54):
that cardiogram. Echocardiogram shows a positive
outcome. It didn't show a positive
outcome. And the doctor told me what's
wrong. And I can remember the drive
back from that doctor to my homewas about maybe 10 minutes.
And the first person I called was my wife.

(52:14):
I was just boiling my eyes, eyesout, just, yeah, just calling
her and feeling just super, super upset about it and
questioning everything in life and what happens and why me, all
that sort of stuff. And I think like, after just
losing mom a few years early as well, like, yeah, it hit again
hard. Yeah, that's why I can't even

(52:35):
can't even start to comprehend it.
Yeah, Yeah. That's tough.
Amazing and congratulations for coming through it where you have
and obviously all the best you know to to get that.
I think next year you said you have another test to see how.
You've. Gone and that sort of stuff,
just sort of dragging it back tothe business doing amazing
numbers. Well done, circa.
How many properties would you buy per per year?

(52:58):
In your business, we're probablyon track to purchase maybe like
700 a year. Yeah, this next year, this next
year, I think we'll purchase 700.
Amazing. Now so that's bars advocacy.
Are you thinking about adding inbolting on different services?
Obviously that whole property journey like you identified
early on that there is plenty you can do, but you know, you

(53:19):
need to figure out what you're good at, what you can deliver
upon. Are you in any thoughts about
OK, maybe we can we can add thispart of the service?
Yeah, you, you nailed it. So when where we're at now,
three big learnings have come up.
So the first big learning is that my team is better than me.
And once you just humble yourself down to that level and

(53:41):
realize that everything in the world from now on that I can
achieve for myself and others and my team is all through my
team. And so I just got to go into the
recruitment game. So I'm a full time recruiter
now. I'm a headhunter, I'm a talent
nurturer. I'm, I'm, I'm an attraction
profile for the business to get talent in.
That's my goal now. And so from that perspective, I

(54:01):
know to move forward across all the different avenues, it's
going to be people that do that for me.
The second thing is realizing that when you have the volume
that we're able to grow at and help that many people that and
you still produce this level of service with that money, that
many people are happy and that many customers are repeating and
advocates. You've found service frameworks

(54:22):
that you can duplicate in any company.
And so now when I have a referral go out to an accountant
and they just get an average service, it annoys me when
someone goes out to a mortgage broker and they get a service
that's half assed or communication levels aren't
there. That annoys me.
And so now it's across all theseAve.
I'm going where can we provide exemplary levels of service?

(54:44):
Where can we provide solutions where we know that the everyday
broker, the accountant, the things just not giving their
clients and start bringing into that ecosystem to create a group
of companies. So that is one of the core
things. The second thing is realizing
that even though we may be growing in volume and how many
families were able to help, it'simportant to also just really

(55:05):
humble myself and realize that we are a speck in the grand
scheme of Australian property. Even as the number one buyers
agency in the country two years in a row, purchasing 607 hundred
properties in a year, it's not even 1% of investment
transactions. There's about 550,000 investment
total property transactions a year in Australia.

(55:26):
About 175,000 of them. If you're taking the investment
ownership, 3035% is investments.So 1% of that would be 17150.
The biggest buyers agency in thecountry.
From from like the awards perspective, because I can't
speak on to who else's size and what they have, I don't know
that. But from us to not even purchase
1%, we're at point O 5%. It's important to realise that

(55:49):
even as our company grows, yes, I want that percentage to be
bigger so I can help more families take advantage of this
formula. There are going to be the vast
majority of Aussies that decide to do it themselves and that's
totally OK because guess what? This is a $10 trillion industry.
That means a lot of people have done well.
If it's worth $10 trillion, there's only $2.2 trillion a
debt in this country. A lot of people are doing well.

(56:11):
So I'm not going to sit here andpretend that you need me to do
well, you're going to be fine. I just want to make sure that if
you are going to do it yourself,some other things I might be
able to help with are and that'swhere we might go down the
education pathway, providing more resources, both free and
paid. And so that's where I think the
the infrastructure for us is. Now let's go, hey, can we build
the ecosystem around us to serveour customers holistically?

(56:33):
Can we provide education? Can we provide a done for you
service? Is that like that sort of stuff?
Yeah, provided at scale type thing.
Yeah, because I know that no matter, even if we double our
Business Today, we're 1% of Australian, Australian property
investors, right. So like context, right, people
might hear me and go, wow, 6 to 700, that's a lot of volume
you're doing. No, it's not.

(56:55):
There's still a lot of good properties out there.
Otherwise, how's it worth $10 trillion if there's not a lot of
good properties out there, thereis, Yeah.
So that's my thought. You're thinking about like
plugging in insurance, mortgage broking, like all these things
that fit around a property purchase because the buyer's
advocacy sort of lives at the start.
And if you get that client at the start, you can go, hey, we,
you know, you could go through insurance, we could look after

(57:15):
your finance. There's lots of different, I
guess you know, bolt on items that if you're doing 700, you do
800, you do 1000 properties a year.
It's a big, it's a big, big play.
Yeah, from a business perspective, there's there's
definite benefits there as well from that angle.
But the biggest part is that, look, no one will come to you in
any of those businesses if you should, like if you should
insurance, no one's going to usemy company just because they use

(57:37):
my buyers. If I'm a horrible mortgage
brokerage, they're not going to use it.
So to me, it's firstly to be great at all of them.
Then I just know the business will be benefiting from it
because you've got that share ofwallet from that customer where
you're helping them with many asaspects of their life.
But you have to be good. And so the idea now is just
going, we have a service framework.
We have the ability to go and provide good service at scale

(57:58):
there. How can we replicate that across
others? So we set the same standard.
You know, we've got onboarding formulas, we've got recruitment
formulas, we've Got Talent nurturing systems, we've got
remuneration, we've got values, vision, missions.
How do we put this all together to create a framework that goes,
hey, this is our operating system investigate.
This is how we went from zero tosix years to the best in the

(58:18):
country. I want to apply this to other
other industries and if I can, then we know we've got
something. And look, if I can't, I can't be
stuffed earning an extra buck todeliver a poor service.
I'll just let it go. I'll focus all my effort on
this. Yes, but on great, great advice.
So those opportunities are there, but first and foremost
you know you need to put the work in to get them right and
implement them properly. Absolutely.

(58:40):
Amazing. Amazing.
Any more, Claire? This has been awesome.
It's been so good. Probably a big one or a question
for maybe the audience, young audience trying to get into
property, like there's so much, I guess negative noise.
How hard is it, you know, cost of living goes up, interest rate
rises. How what would you recommend or

(59:01):
what would you suggest as someone who hasn't bought
property yet? How?
How much do they need or what? What's the best path into diving
in? Yeah, so I've got a few tips I
can give someone at a younger age, earlier jobs, lower
incomes, that's all part of lifein the in the younger ages,
right. First thing is high LVR loan to

(59:25):
value ratios are your best friend.
You know, many of my properties in my earlier days were 90% and
beyond loans, realizing that 40 years of data in Australia
having 5 to 7% compounding growth rates.
Time and data are in your favourbecause time being you're 18 to
25 and data of 40 years. Look, as much of A data person I

(59:46):
am, I'm not going against 40 years of data, right?
And so knowing that you can try and get in with the lowest
possible deposit, yes, there arerisks and repayments, yes,
there'll be lower capacity when you're putting all that money in
terms of a high loan. But that's the first tip, use
the leverage. Don't read those media articles
that go it will take 29,000 years to save a deposit in

(01:00:07):
Sydney and Melbourne. Like come on, who 40% deposits?
You're buying the house in cash.Who rolls around buying all the
houses in cash except for the oldies, right?
Like that's different. So you got to go in high LVR and
take that risk because it is a risk.
The second thing is Rent Fest, like the rental yields in our
two biggest cities, as an example in Sydney and Melbourne,
are very poor. That is the rent fester's best

(01:00:29):
friend, you know what I mean? So take for example $1,000,000
mortgage, $1,000,000 mortgage tomaybe even 11.2 mortgage and a
1.5 home in Sydney. That's what, 67000 in monthly
repayments? That's probably only going to be
2500 to 3000 in rent, maybe 3 1/2.
If you want to pick a swanky place.

(01:00:51):
That gap is all your cash lose the mentality of dead money
being rent, It's interest is still dead too, right?
Non claimable interest is still dead money.
So if it's on your home and you think it's not dead money, it's
dead money for up until you pay your principal.
And so then it's real money. And so that's the second tip
because you can unlock borrowingcapacity or living at home a
bit. You know, thank God for me being

(01:01:11):
born into an Indian family. We are totally cool with living
with our parents. You know, like you'll catch a 45
year old Indian going mum, you know, can you like it's, it's,
it's it's beautiful. I mean, one thing Touchwood of
that background I'm very grateful for is the fact that,
you know, we'll stay there and no one will judge us.
Non Indians will judge the hell out of us, but Indians won't

(01:01:32):
judge judge us. Unfortunately, Indians stay in
Indian neighborhood. So there ain't no one judging
you, right. So that's the first part.
The second part, sorry, focus onthe living situation.
The third one is that you can buy affordable.
You just have to be national, like you can't focus on like if
you go into the whole capital city, only parents told me this.

(01:01:54):
Therefore I follow this because remember, the majority of
Aussies in Australia are likely to have a home and or a property
investment at most, right? Like they, they might not have
more than that. And so that's not the majority,
but that's the majority of investors.
They're probably going to have one or two, maybe their home as
well. And it's very unlikely they've
gone outside of their comforts to go outside the backyard.

(01:02:15):
So if you're a child in that household, almost there's a
higher, higher percentage of chance that they are doing that
backyard major city because that's where the majority of the
population is and close to home,right?
So that's all the things that you're going to fall for because
that's what family says. So if you're going to be
borderless, you're going to consider those living
arrangements from at home rent, vesting and high LVRS, whatever

(01:02:37):
you think it takes in terms of time frame to get it.
Harvard, because it'll probably be that that much faster.
Just about applying these 3 here.
Now you can't do it on with no financial discipline.
You know what I mean? You have to be able to save a
dollar and, and yes, if you're going to save, but it's so hard
to save. Well, living at home wasn't as
hard to save, you know, renting and sharing with others when I
first started renting and sharing with others wasn't as

(01:02:59):
hard to save. Then there are things that
sacrifices that come up early onin life.
And if you assume that you're going to buy the best place ever
for your first one, it's not thecase.
Simon bought a $265,000 home, rough suburb of western
Brisbane, 50 minutes out from Brisbane, You know, with a board
home on, on stumps, no solid, perfectly built foundation.

(01:03:21):
I don't even think there's a fence around the outside.
There's a corner block. You know, the corner block's
meant to have a fence here and afence there.
There wasn't even a fence. So no doggies in their backyard.
And he got in and that was his first place.
Now he's got hundreds of thousands of equity.
So I think that's kind of my tipto the to the young folks.
And my final tip if I was to give one, is don't realize that

(01:03:42):
you're not going to be in the same income forever.
You know, like, even if like youjust stay in the same industry,
they can be mastering in any industry.
I've helped someone who was a janitor who's become a cleaning
company owner, right? So the key is, you know, even
cleaning shit lead to like actually a brilliant career for
him, his family, multiple properties like kids going to

(01:04:02):
school, kids growing up in household.
Like do not think that where youstart off with in that
environment that might be tough for you is going to be your
forever. If you are thinking it's going
to be here forever, then the problem might be in between the
two years. Not.
Yeah, not anything else. So start small and grind and
rely on the professionals. It's a big part.

(01:04:23):
About the smashed ever. You can have your smashed ever
too, you know. Don't.
Go there. Mate, thanks so much for your
time. Congratulations on your business
journey and keen to see where you go, where you take take your
business and obviously all the best with, you know, with your
health. Thank you so much guys.
Appreciate it. Thanks.
Thanks heaps. Well done.

(01:04:44):
Whoever is going to get value out of that, like share,
subscribe, see you at the top, people will be part of a winning
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well, that took some guts. He can't.
He can't. He can't see you at the top.