January 4, 2024 • 29 mins
Have you ever wondered how the human heart manages to bear the unbearable? How it picks up the shattered pieces and eventually finds its way to healing? Our guest for today's episode, Roy Martin, opens up about a tragic event that forever changed his life - the loss of his beloved daughter, Tawny, to a drunk driver. Join us as Roy paints a vivid image of Tawny's life, her vivacious spirit, and the sobering reality of her sudden demise. This heartrending narration not only brings to light the devastating aftermath of drunk driving, but also underscores the priceless value of each moment spent with loved ones.
As we continue our discussion, we shift our focus towards the labyrinth of grief and the process of recovery. We delve into the heartache, guilt, and regret that ensued in the wake of Tawny's demise, and the impact it had on Roy's family, particularly his son, Noah. Amidst deep sorrow, however, blooms a ray of hope. Roy shares how, with time, they found a way to remember Tawny without being submerged in grief. This conversation sheds light on the unique ways people deal with loss and offers valuable insights into navigating your own path to healing. This episode is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the power of love that persists, even in the face of overwhelming sorrow.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Roy Martin (00:00):
In the darkness of the night, there will be another
(00:02):
day I promise you, it's gonna bebetter. I wish I could have also
told myself, I promise you,there will come a day when you
think about Tawny and you don'tmorph into grief.
Michael Liben (00:22):
Welcome to the Eighth Season of "Bereaved But
Still Me". Our purpose is toempower members of our
community. I am Michael Libenand the father of three children
- Idan, Sapir, and Liel. Liel,my youngest daughter, was born
with a heart defect and latershe developed autism and
epilepsy. Losing her at 15 iswhat has brought me here to be
the host of this program. Herewith us today is our guest, Roy
(00:44):
Martin. Roy lost his daughterTawny to a drunk driver a month
after she turned 19. The driverwho took Tawny's life was 17 and
he had been drinking and washeading north on a southbound
highway. How does a fathernavigate the grief of losing his
daughter to a drunk driver? Roy,thank you for joining us
"Bereaved But Still Me".
Roy Martin (01:03):
Michael, good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Michael Liben (01:06):
Tell us a little bit about Tawny.
Roy Martin (01:09):
So every parent, especially every father of a
daughter is going to be biased.
Tawny really was one of thosechilds, and there are a number
of them out there, thateverybody who knew them,
everybody who knows, them willsay they were the ones most
likely to succeed. They were theones that really were kind of
unique and special. Tawny wasthat way. She was a horse
(01:31):
whisperer kind of person. Shewas an amazing equestrian.
Amazing at sports in - shevarsitied every, every sport.
She immediately went to varsityteam, and she graduated high
school second in her class. Soshe was one of those that seem
to have everything going for.
(01:51):
And I remember when a few weeksafter she died, one of her
friends was speaking with us.
And he was angry. And I said,"Well, why are you so upset?"
And he said, "Well, because it'snot fair". No, it's not. He
said, "No, you don't understand.
She was amazing. She was gonnabring so much to the world. She
(02:12):
had so many gifts". Now again,I'm a biased father. But there
are those individuals out therethat are like that. So she was
attractive, she was talented,everything going for her. Had
just started college, wasaccepted into the University of
her choice. And then literallyin an instant she was taken away
(02:33):
from us. And that's where we'reat today.
Michael Liben (02:36):
We learned in the introduction that she passed
away from a car accident. Canyou tell us about that
specifically?
Roy Martin (02:42):
Let's start back before the accident. The day
that Tawny died was just anormal weekend day like it was
for the drunk driver who killedher. It started out as a normal
day. That particular day, Tawnywas with another friend at his
grandparents' house and theywere hanging out. The day wore
on, turned into evening. AndTawny and her friend Lee decided
(03:10):
to go visit a third friend. Andso they got on the highway in
separate vehicles. Unknown tothem, the young man who was the
drunk driver was also having anormal day, but his day ended up
with him being in a party, andeverybody was drinking there was
lots of alcohol. The TexasAlcoholic Beverage Commission
(03:31):
later investigated and everybodyat that party said everybody
brought alcohol, everybody wasdrinking, and he, the drunk
driver, was stumbling drunk whenhe left the room. So Tawny and
her friend Lee were on thehighway, separate vehicles,
going south on the southboundlane of the interstate. And
(03:53):
there was a cattle hauler, along 18 wheeler, that Lee
passed, went in front of, Tawnywas behind Lee, so she got into
the left lane and startedpassing the cattle hauler also.
As they crested the hill, Leesaw headlights coming straight
at him. And at that point, youdon't think you just react and
(04:15):
so without thinking, Lee slammedhis wheel to the right just
barely cleared the front of the18 wheeler as these headlights
were coming straight at him andinstantly, he said later, he
thought of Tawny and all of themdoing 70 miles an hour going
south. While this turned out tobe a pickup truck doing more
(04:37):
than 70 miles an hour comingstraight at Tawny there was
nowhere for Tawny to turn. Therewas an 18 Wheeler in the right
hand lane on the left hand lanethere was a concrete barrier. So
she crested the hill, lookedinto the headlights in front of
her, coming straight at her andthe two slammed into each other.
(04:59):
Because there were no skid marksthe police could not judge the
speed of the drunk driver. Italso meant he was not applying
brakes or anything. He hit herat full speed. She had no time
to react. Lee watched all ofthis unfold in his rearview
mirror, understand this amazingyoung lady that everybody loved,
(05:21):
that he had just been dancingwith. Actually on his
grandparents front yard, theywere out there dancing before
they left the house, and he sawthis unfold. The truck that ran
into Tawny used her smallCorolla as a ramp basically, and
climbed over her vehicle, flew,I don't know how many yards
(05:43):
probably 10 -15 yards throughthe air. Tawny's car was crushed
down. While that happened, Leewas watching all of this and the
front slammed on his brakes atthat point, jumped out of his
vehicle, ran 100 yards back towhere the two vehicles had ended
up. The bystanders who werethere had to pull Lee off her
(06:06):
vehicle. The car was on fire,and they were afraid it was
going to explode. He attemptedto get the door opened. By that
point, Tawny had already passedon. She died instantly. But Lee
didn't know that. And so that ishow the wreck occurred. For
Lynne and me, my wife, thatevening turned awful. At about
(06:29):
1230 midnight, both Tawny andthe drunk driver had died. It
was about 15 minutes aftermidnight. And we got the call
later. And it is that midnightcall that every parent is
terrified of. It started a 24hour day that I only remember
(06:49):
pieces and parts of.
Michael Liben (06:51):
I'm trying to picture in my mind what it was
like for him. I don't think heexpected he would ever in his
life find himself doing that,trying to pull someone out of
car.
Roy Martin (07:01):
God and the universe are interesting. We had never
met Lee prior to this. I don'tknow that Tawny was
intentionally keeping him hiddenfrom us. It just worked out. We
didn't know all of her friends.
We knew many of them. Later on,we got to know Lee so well that
eventually he became an adoptedson to us, not legally but might
as well. His son now calls mepapa, I'm his adopted
(07:22):
grandfather. So again, God andthe universe are interesting
sometimes. Lee psychologically,I don't know how to say it, he
was pretty devastated. This issomebody who had been a
paramedic as a teenager, hevolunteered with the local EMTs
and such and actually went oncalls. So this was somebody who
was used to dealing with wrecks.
(07:45):
But to have somebody that he'dreally started to grow close to
and be so powerless, there hadto be some guilt here. Because
he was able to dodge and hedidn't think about it. Again,
your body reacts and so when heslammed that wheel to the
right... but he dealt with griefand self recrimination and just
go down the list, for years. Andthere's a silver lining, if
(08:09):
there can be silver linings, andthere are, he eventually came to
live with us. He was sort of ina tough spot in his life. But
the reason he came to live withus, there'e this one time we
were, this was probably a fewweeks after the wreck, and he
was having a particularly roughnight, and we were out on the
front driveway. And I asked him,you know, "Lee you're between
(08:29):
residences, why don't you comesleep on our couch tonight?" And
he was hesitant and I said,"Look Lee, the reality is right
now you need us and we need youevery bit as much.
Michael Liben (08:43):
Sure.
Roy Martin (08:44):
And I think that was part of his healing to know that
he wasn't being blamed. And hewas worthy of love. And he is.
Michael Liben (08:55):
As a sort of a link, a last link between you
and Tawny.
Roy Martin (08:59):
Until you've mentioned that now I did not.
Certainly he was able to tell usthings about the last night of
her life that we never wouldhave known. It's an interesting
question. It's one I need toponder a bit, I had not thought
Michael Liben (09:12):
Let me give you a little detail. What I mean is
of that.
when you talk to him or when yousee him you're in some way
connecting with those lastmoments when she was fine.
Roy Martin (09:21):
Yes. That had not occurred to me before. Looking
back on when I asked him if he'dbe willing to move in with us.
And he needed a place to stayand we had the room and it was
nice to have that ability totalk to somebody that knew other
aspects of our daughter. It wasa blessing that I hadn't really
thought about it 'til you justnow mentioned Eventually, years
later when we could talk aboutstuff and actually laugh that
(09:44):
was a turning point. When youget to that point where you can
remember stuff and startlaughing about it. That's key.
And Lee has been instrumental tothat. Remembering things we
didn't know and being able tojust be happy
Anna Jaworski (10:00):
You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If
you have a question or commentthat you would like addressed on
our program, please send anemail to Michael Liben at
michael@bereavedbutstillme.com.
That'smichael@bereavedbutstillme.com.
This content is not intended tobe a substitute for professional
(10:20):
medical advice, diagnosis ortreatment. The opinions
expressed in the podcast are notthose of Hearts Unite the Globe,
but of the hosts and guests andare intended to spark discussion
about issues pertaining tocongenital heart disease or
bereavement.
Michael Liben (10:39):
Obviously, this event changed your life, what
did you do to find a way throughthis? And is there a way to
actually get through this orjust just go on forever, but in
a better way?
Roy Martin (10:49):
Yes to all of the above. I think we all reached
out for ways to deal with this.
So we were really concernedabout Tawny's younger brother,
Noah, he was eight years old atthe time that she was killed. So
there were things we did in adecided fashion, try getting him
counseling, etc. But then therewere other things we just sort
of muddled through. And it seemsto me that so many of the
(11:13):
biggest things in life are notdue to decisions that we
consciously made but it's justhow we responded in the moment.
And I think so much of ourhealing probably had to do with
that - things that just sort offell into place over time. But I
don't know that either of usconsciously gave ourselves the
(11:36):
time to deal with it. We hadfamily that was grieving our
daughter, and my wife and I arevery much the people who take
charge and manage things, bothof us do. And so it was our job
to set the ship right both forus, for Noah, for our families,
for the community, I went intoTawny's funeral and spoke from
(11:58):
the pulpit to her classmates,many of her graduating class was
at her funeral. And I rememberneeding to get up and talk to
them, to help them through it.
And I'm not trying to makemyself out to be a martyr, I
think it would have helped mehad I given myself the chance to
(12:20):
grieve and to heal. Butsometimes you don't have that
option. And I think the bestthing I could have done, and
this has only occurred to merecently, as we get older,
sometimes we have problemssleeping the night through. And
when I wake up at two in themorning, almost every morning,
the part of your brain that isthe true processor is basically
(12:44):
asleep. It doesn't wake up, youdon't know this, but the
prefrontal cortex just is notactive you're all reaction at
midnight and two in the morning.
And those dark thoughts, and itdoesn't, I'm not talking, you
know, gruesome thoughts, butthose dark thoughts start to
seep in, you know, you're notworthy, you're not going to
finish this, you never finishyour project, all that stuff
seeps in. And it's only beenrecently that I've learned to
(13:06):
sit with that and this is goingto sound weird and I'm going to
come back to grief in a minute -to sit with that and just let
those thoughts go, because Ican't stop them. You know,
that's that survival mode in theback of your brain that that
kept our caveman ancestorsalive. Okay. So I can't stop
those thoughts. But there was apart of my brain that just
(13:29):
recently has learned to say,just listen, let it go. Because
tomorrow, you're gonna see thisdifferently. And consistently,
I've felt that to be true. Andso I just trust that in the
darkest night of the soul, ifyou can trust yourself to just
listen, just sit with it. Don'ttry to fix it. Just sit with it,
(13:52):
and promise yourself thatthere'll be a better day. There
almost alaways is.
Michael Liben (14:00):
That's very true.
I think all of us who've lostchildren have these moments. I
don't know if it's guilt. Butall these "what if?" moments,
"what if I had turned leftinstead of turning right?" "What
if I had gone upstairs insteadof downstairs?" There's all
kinds of things. But life ischoices. Life is things
happening one after another in achain reaction. And you can't go
back and look at that and say Icould have controlled it
(14:23):
differently. Because youcouldn't. You didn't. And
there's nothing you can do aboutit now anyway. So there's a lot
of that. I think a lot of thatbeating oneself. I don't know if
it's guilt or trying to beguilty, maybe. saying I wish I
could have an answer as to howthis happened. And that turns to
guilt and it's sometimes very,very bad, very dangerous.
Roy Martin (14:46):
And I think Lee dealt with that guilt,
survivor's guilt. For me, it wasmore a regret so deep, and I've
years later now, years later, Iam just now able to have those
memories of Tawny and such,where not only can I laugh, but
truly, I don't become sorrowful.
And that's a recent occurrence.
(15:09):
I wish I could have gone back towhen this first happened. Not
only told myself, "Look in thedarkness of the night, there
will be another day, I promiseyou, it's going to be better". I
wish I could have also toldmyself, "I promise you, there
will come a day when you thinkabout Tawny and you don't morph
(15:30):
into grief". And I'm just nowreaching that point. And part of
that is I sort of communed withTawny in my brain anyway. And
the one thing she told me was,"Dad, stop it. I don't want you
to be sad when you think aboutme, and I know you laugh, and
you joke, but you turn sad,you've got to find your way
(15:53):
through the sadness". And it waslike, hearing that from her
voice. Even though this was me,gave myself permission. It's
almost like you feel this isyour child, and you have to
grieve, and you don't,subconsciously give yourself
permission, even if youintellectually think you did.
And I had to go there and bewith Tawny and have her tell me,
(16:18):
"Dad, I don't want you to besad. So if you can't do it for
you, do it for me, be happy, letthe sadness go". This is years
later. Now, this is just withinthe last six months or so.
Michael Liben (16:29):
I think it kind of cuts both ways. I reached a
point fairly early, where thememories made me happy to think
of her and all the things thatmy daughter did and the
craziness and silliness ofliving with autism. And I think
early on, we got to that point,but then it goes back sometimes,
(16:49):
where even now it's almost 11years later and I I'll still cry
for an instant, I'll be very sadfor an instant. But I have
developed some kind of internalmechanism to allow that to
happen, but not too much. So itebbs and flows. Most of the time
thinking of her makes me happy,because we had great times. And
(17:09):
I love that and I love her. Andit's just nice. And other times
even now, you can still get sad,but I think that's okay. You've
never really reached an endpoint into this, you just reach
a point where you can get alongwith it, and usually do pretty
well. Other factors may affectyour getting upset or not upset.
But basically, you reach thispoint where you can do well,
(17:30):
it's hard to believe it at thebeginning, you don't think it's
going to happen.
Roy Martin (17:34):
On that note, throughout life, I've heard
certain sayings and some of themresonate. And you don't know why
until years later, one that Iheard when I was younger, twenty
something, you can never crossthe same river twice. You're not
the same, and neither is theriver. And it's that idea that
it's a journey, you think you'vegot it conquered. And you
eventually have to get back tothat point where you realize it
(17:56):
is not a destination. It's aNorthstar, you're traveling in
that direction. But you're nevergoing to get there. And so it's
that ebb and flow you spokeabout. You, you think you've got
it conquered and well, no,because the river is going to
change on you. That's anotherone of those life lessons that
had I've been able to to trulyinternalize years ago, some of
this might have been easier,maybe
Michael Liben (18:18):
I will use a different analogy. You're going
to face these challenges, timeand time again. And the river
isn't exactly the same river andyou're not exactly the same
person, but you are who youwere. And the river is still a
river, what you've developed,there is a playbook. So you know
when it goes like this when thetide is high, I got to do this
when the tide is low, I got todo that. So you figure out a way
(18:38):
to get through all of theseissues as they come back because
you've seen them before.
Roy Martin (18:42):
I used to call that "the minefield" right after
Tawny died, I learned there arecertain landmines out there. And
as I got - don't go there, atleast not in this crowd because
you're going to start crying soyou can go there when you're
alone. That's okay. And it'sthat same idea, you learn
lessons and the only way tolearn them is to hit that
landmine have it blow up on you.
Not, I'm sorry, that's a badgraphic but and to experience
(19:05):
it. And then if you have thewherewithal to say this is not
good and sit with that for alittle bit. And then you'll know
later and give yourself creditfor learning that lesson and
know when to avoid thatsituation and when it's okay to
experience it.
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(19:50):
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Michael Liben (20:04):
Roy, can you talk to me about your experience with
dealing with grief becauseyou've experienced more than
just losing your daughter. Sotalk to us about some of the
other losses you experienced.
Roy Martin (20:15):
After Tawny passed on, we basically lost my wife's
father, Noan's grandpa, lost mywife's mother, lost his grandma,
then lost my mother. And thenjust recently with weeks ago,
lost my father. So Tawny was thefirst of five. And the
(20:38):
interesting thing is, each timeit was different, I don't want
to lean too heavily on themetaphor that you're different
nd the river is different. Buttruly, it was different with
Tawny's grief, I think Lynn andI took too much on ourselves,
and we did not offer ourselvesthe ability to heal the way we
should have. And with the nextpassing one of the grandmothers,
(21:04):
it was a little better, it'snever easy, it never gets
better. But by then I hadstarted to learn some of the
pain points. And honestly, Godand the universe hit me with the
worst thing anyone canexperience to lose a parent, you
subconsciously think about them.
To lose a sibling, it's hard tolose a child. Wow, we started
(21:27):
off probably with the mostdifficult experience any human
is ever gonna feel.
Michael Liben (21:34):
That's true.
Roy Martin (21:35):
The process was different for each of us. Noah
grieved differently than Lynndid, which is different than how
I grieved and the timespan'sdifferent. The interesting thing
is we each have different thingsthat made it bearable. And when
I say different things, whatworked for me didn't work for
Noah. So you know, we could gointo an hour long segment just
(21:56):
on what worked with you, I thinkthe thing to understand is what
I did not do, which I shouldhave was given myself permission
to take time, I went back towork a week later. And it wasn't
because I'm a workaholic.
Looking back, it's because Iwanted to escape. I needed to
escape all those feelings. And Iknow it now.
Michael Liben (22:18):
Roy, I'm gonna stop, but I just want to stop
you for a second because that istotally fair. Some people want
to escape that moment. And thatmay be the way to do it is to go
back to it. There isn't a wrongway to do this. And I think we
really need to make that clear.
You may say now that it waswrong for you then and that's
fine. But I wouldn't take itaway from somebody who goes back
(22:40):
to work right away. I wouldn'tdo it. You wouldn't do it again,
I think. But for some peoplethat's what works.
Roy Martin (22:49):
I think you're right, Michael, it was the
novocaine it was the anestheticthat helped me get through the
difficult time, the thing whereI think I made the mistake was
not doing part two, which isokay, we've deadened the pain
long enough but now you havethese recovery things, Roy, you
need to go through. And it'sthat part that I just tried to
(23:12):
escape it. I tried to escapeback into work, and it was a
coping mechanism. But it was acrutch that I I just never went
on to step two, it took me yearsto go on to step two.
Michael Liben (23:25):
Again, that's fair, that happens to people.
Roy Martin (23:27):
I'm not beating myself up. I'm sure - happen.
Yeah...
Michael Liben (23:33):
But I just want to be very clear to people,
because people listen to thisprogram, in part, to hear how
other people have gone throughit. And in some sense, they may
compare and contrast or theymight be learning a lesson for
now, for the future. It'simportant when we get to this
point in the conversation, thereis no wrong way to do it. And
there isn't a right way to doit. There's a way that's right
(23:55):
for you, if you're lucky enoughto find it. Or if somebody can
help you get there. That'sgreat. But most people I think,
go through this on their own,which is unfortunate. And a lot
has been said on this programabout society in the west and in
America in particular, where wedon't always have an organized
system. Now, that's not true foreverybody. We're not going to go
(24:17):
there today. But a lot of timespeople need an organized system
to help them. So when you'regoing through it on your own,
which most people seem to do,there's no wrong way and there
isn't a right way. There's manyright ways to find it's good for
you. And I think it's importantto we tell people that
Roy Martin (24:33):
I would suggest what is right for you is right for
you. Hopefully, as quickly asyou can you realize what is not
no longer serving you and whereyou need to either ask for help
or or acknowledge that you'renot where you need to be. And
(24:55):
and key to this is that ideathat I had mentioned earlier
that there's going to be abetter time. Sometimes you have
to work to get to that point.
And I, a, I just didn't thinkthere would be a better time.
And so I never opened myself upto feeling better. And, if so,
if there was somebody listeningand say, "Well, I did go to back
(25:17):
to work, I did this",absolutely, you've got to do
what you've got to do, but havean aspiration, of being happy,
have an aspiration, of beinghealthy, both for yourself, and
just as importantly for yourfamily, for that eight year old,
who's now an 18 year old andstill dealing with it, have that
aspiration, have that goal, andthat's what I didn't have, I was
(25:39):
too willing to be the martyr ofthe child who died. And that was
my lot in the universe. Andthat's not what Tawny wanted for
me. And it took that, for me tosort of break away from that,
that thought that it's nevergonna get better.
Michael Liben (26:06):
Do you think that also may be delayed? Your
getting there? Because you justdidn't see it coming?
Roy Martin (26:13):
I need to think about that. I'm not sure. I'm
not sure.
Michael Liben (26:15):
Well, I'll ask it differently. Had you aspired
earlier to reach a point whereit would be all right with you,
do you think you'd have gottenthere faster?
Roy Martin (26:24):
Yes, I think if I had heard the message in the way
I finally visualized it formyself. Stop. Put yourself in
the image of your child here,your wife, your parent. Would
they want you to be this way therest of your life? The minute
(26:47):
you put it in that perspective,if it was you, Roy, and, and you
passed away, what about Noah,would you want him to be sad
forever? Well, no, of coursenot.
Michael Liben (26:59):
There it is.
Roy Martin (27:00):
Okay then. Okay, then give yourself permission,
because that's not what youwould not for them. That's not
what your daughter wants foryou. The minute I gave myself
that permission from Tawny, andmaybe that was the key, I had to
hear it from Tawny, even if itwas in my own head, that "Daddy,
stop being so sad about me".
That's all it took, a dooropened. And it took me a while
(27:24):
to make that journey across thethreshold. But that's what I
took. So I would, I wouldsuggest to any, any person who
is grieving, put yourselves inthe shoes of the other person.
And, you know, would they wantyou to feel this way forever?
Yes, it's supposed to hurt whensomebody you love dies, but
(27:46):
forever? And they probably wouldgive you permission to be happy
again. And you need to honortheir wish.
Michael Liben (27:58):
Roy Martin, thank you so much for joining us on
"Bereaved But Still Me". You arean inspiration to anybody who
has been through this. And weall know somebody or ourselves
have been, where you are andwhere you've been. So thank you
for sharing that with us. Thankyou so much.
Roy Martin (28:14):
Thank you, Michael.
And thank you to everyone outthere that supports the show and
supports everyone else in grief.
Thank you.
Michael Liben (28:22):
And that concludes this episode of
"Bereaved But Still Me". I wantto thank Roy for sharing his
experience and his wisdom withus. Please join us again at the
beginning of the month for a newepisode and I'll be with you
soon. But until then pleaseremember, moving forward is not
moving away.
Anna Jaworski (28:36):
Thank you for joining us. We help you have
felt supported in your griefjourney. "Bereaved But Still Me"
is a monthly podcast, and a newepisode is released on the first
Thursday of each month. You canhear our podcast anywhere you
normally listen to podcasts atany time. Join us again next
month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".
In the darkness of the night, there will be another
(00:02):
day I promise you, it's gonna bebetter. I wish I could have also
told myself, I promise you,there will come a day when you
think about Tawny and you don'tmorph into grief.
Michael Liben (00:22):
Welcome to the Eighth Season of "Bereaved But
Still Me". Our purpose is toempower members of our
community. I am Michael Libenand the father of three children
- Idan, Sapir, and Liel. Liel,my youngest daughter, was born
with a heart defect and latershe developed autism and
epilepsy. Losing her at 15 iswhat has brought me here to be
the host of this program. Herewith us today is our guest, Roy
(00:44):
Martin. Roy lost his daughterTawny to a drunk driver a month
after she turned 19. The driverwho took Tawny's life was 17 and
he had been drinking and washeading north on a southbound
highway. How does a fathernavigate the grief of losing his
daughter to a drunk driver? Roy,thank you for joining us
"Bereaved But Still Me".
Roy Martin (01:03):
Michael, good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Michael Liben (01:06):
Tell us a little bit about Tawny.
Roy Martin (01:09):
So every parent, especially every father of a
daughter is going to be biased.
Tawny really was one of thosechilds, and there are a number
of them out there, thateverybody who knew them,
everybody who knows, them willsay they were the ones most
likely to succeed. They were theones that really were kind of
unique and special. Tawny wasthat way. She was a horse
(01:31):
whisperer kind of person. Shewas an amazing equestrian.
Amazing at sports in - shevarsitied every, every sport.
She immediately went to varsityteam, and she graduated high
school second in her class. Soshe was one of those that seem
to have everything going for.
(01:51):
And I remember when a few weeksafter she died, one of her
friends was speaking with us.
And he was angry. And I said,"Well, why are you so upset?"
And he said, "Well, because it'snot fair". No, it's not. He
said, "No, you don't understand.
She was amazing. She was gonnabring so much to the world. She
(02:12):
had so many gifts". Now again,I'm a biased father. But there
are those individuals out therethat are like that. So she was
attractive, she was talented,everything going for her. Had
just started college, wasaccepted into the University of
her choice. And then literallyin an instant she was taken away
(02:33):
from us. And that's where we'reat today.
Michael Liben (02:36):
We learned in the introduction that she passed
away from a car accident. Canyou tell us about that
specifically?
Roy Martin (02:42):
Let's start back before the accident. The day
that Tawny died was just anormal weekend day like it was
for the drunk driver who killedher. It started out as a normal
day. That particular day, Tawnywas with another friend at his
grandparents' house and theywere hanging out. The day wore
on, turned into evening. AndTawny and her friend Lee decided
(03:10):
to go visit a third friend. Andso they got on the highway in
separate vehicles. Unknown tothem, the young man who was the
drunk driver was also having anormal day, but his day ended up
with him being in a party, andeverybody was drinking there was
lots of alcohol. The TexasAlcoholic Beverage Commission
(03:31):
later investigated and everybodyat that party said everybody
brought alcohol, everybody wasdrinking, and he, the drunk
driver, was stumbling drunk whenhe left the room. So Tawny and
her friend Lee were on thehighway, separate vehicles,
going south on the southboundlane of the interstate. And
(03:53):
there was a cattle hauler, along 18 wheeler, that Lee
passed, went in front of, Tawnywas behind Lee, so she got into
the left lane and startedpassing the cattle hauler also.
As they crested the hill, Leesaw headlights coming straight
at him. And at that point, youdon't think you just react and
(04:15):
so without thinking, Lee slammedhis wheel to the right just
barely cleared the front of the18 wheeler as these headlights
were coming straight at him andinstantly, he said later, he
thought of Tawny and all of themdoing 70 miles an hour going
south. While this turned out tobe a pickup truck doing more
(04:37):
than 70 miles an hour comingstraight at Tawny there was
nowhere for Tawny to turn. Therewas an 18 Wheeler in the right
hand lane on the left hand lanethere was a concrete barrier. So
she crested the hill, lookedinto the headlights in front of
her, coming straight at her andthe two slammed into each other.
(04:59):
Because there were no skid marksthe police could not judge the
speed of the drunk driver. Italso meant he was not applying
brakes or anything. He hit herat full speed. She had no time
to react. Lee watched all ofthis unfold in his rearview
mirror, understand this amazingyoung lady that everybody loved,
(05:21):
that he had just been dancingwith. Actually on his
grandparents front yard, theywere out there dancing before
they left the house, and he sawthis unfold. The truck that ran
into Tawny used her smallCorolla as a ramp basically, and
climbed over her vehicle, flew,I don't know how many yards
(05:43):
probably 10 -15 yards throughthe air. Tawny's car was crushed
down. While that happened, Leewas watching all of this and the
front slammed on his brakes atthat point, jumped out of his
vehicle, ran 100 yards back towhere the two vehicles had ended
up. The bystanders who werethere had to pull Lee off her
(06:06):
vehicle. The car was on fire,and they were afraid it was
going to explode. He attemptedto get the door opened. By that
point, Tawny had already passedon. She died instantly. But Lee
didn't know that. And so that ishow the wreck occurred. For
Lynne and me, my wife, thatevening turned awful. At about
(06:29):
1230 midnight, both Tawny andthe drunk driver had died. It
was about 15 minutes aftermidnight. And we got the call
later. And it is that midnightcall that every parent is
terrified of. It started a 24hour day that I only remember
(06:49):
pieces and parts of.
Michael Liben (06:51):
I'm trying to picture in my mind what it was
like for him. I don't think heexpected he would ever in his
life find himself doing that,trying to pull someone out of
car.
Roy Martin (07:01):
God and the universe are interesting. We had never
met Lee prior to this. I don'tknow that Tawny was
intentionally keeping him hiddenfrom us. It just worked out. We
didn't know all of her friends.
We knew many of them. Later on,we got to know Lee so well that
eventually he became an adoptedson to us, not legally but might
as well. His son now calls mepapa, I'm his adopted
(07:22):
grandfather. So again, God andthe universe are interesting
sometimes. Lee psychologically,I don't know how to say it, he
was pretty devastated. This issomebody who had been a
paramedic as a teenager, hevolunteered with the local EMTs
and such and actually went oncalls. So this was somebody who
was used to dealing with wrecks.
(07:45):
But to have somebody that he'dreally started to grow close to
and be so powerless, there hadto be some guilt here. Because
he was able to dodge and hedidn't think about it. Again,
your body reacts and so when heslammed that wheel to the
right... but he dealt with griefand self recrimination and just
go down the list, for years. Andthere's a silver lining, if
(08:09):
there can be silver linings, andthere are, he eventually came to
live with us. He was sort of ina tough spot in his life. But
the reason he came to live withus, there'e this one time we
were, this was probably a fewweeks after the wreck, and he
was having a particularly roughnight, and we were out on the
front driveway. And I asked him,you know, "Lee you're between
(08:29):
residences, why don't you comesleep on our couch tonight?" And
he was hesitant and I said,"Look Lee, the reality is right
now you need us and we need youevery bit as much.
Michael Liben (08:43):
Sure.
Roy Martin (08:44):
And I think that was part of his healing to know that
he wasn't being blamed. And hewas worthy of love. And he is.
Michael Liben (08:55):
As a sort of a link, a last link between you
and Tawny.
Roy Martin (08:59):
Until you've mentioned that now I did not.
Certainly he was able to tell usthings about the last night of
her life that we never wouldhave known. It's an interesting
question. It's one I need toponder a bit, I had not thought
Michael Liben (09:12):
Let me give you a little detail. What I mean is
of that.
when you talk to him or when yousee him you're in some way
connecting with those lastmoments when she was fine.
Roy Martin (09:21):
Yes. That had not occurred to me before. Looking
back on when I asked him if he'dbe willing to move in with us.
And he needed a place to stayand we had the room and it was
nice to have that ability totalk to somebody that knew other
aspects of our daughter. It wasa blessing that I hadn't really
thought about it 'til you justnow mentioned Eventually, years
later when we could talk aboutstuff and actually laugh that
(09:44):
was a turning point. When youget to that point where you can
remember stuff and startlaughing about it. That's key.
And Lee has been instrumental tothat. Remembering things we
didn't know and being able tojust be happy
Anna Jaworski (10:00):
You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If
you have a question or commentthat you would like addressed on
our program, please send anemail to Michael Liben at
michael@bereavedbutstillme.com.
That'smichael@bereavedbutstillme.com.
This content is not intended tobe a substitute for professional
(10:20):
medical advice, diagnosis ortreatment. The opinions
expressed in the podcast are notthose of Hearts Unite the Globe,
but of the hosts and guests andare intended to spark discussion
about issues pertaining tocongenital heart disease or
bereavement.
Michael Liben (10:39):
Obviously, this event changed your life, what
did you do to find a way throughthis? And is there a way to
actually get through this orjust just go on forever, but in
a better way?
Roy Martin (10:49):
Yes to all of the above. I think we all reached
out for ways to deal with this.
So we were really concernedabout Tawny's younger brother,
Noah, he was eight years old atthe time that she was killed. So
there were things we did in adecided fashion, try getting him
counseling, etc. But then therewere other things we just sort
of muddled through. And it seemsto me that so many of the
(11:13):
biggest things in life are notdue to decisions that we
consciously made but it's justhow we responded in the moment.
And I think so much of ourhealing probably had to do with
that - things that just sort offell into place over time. But I
don't know that either of usconsciously gave ourselves the
(11:36):
time to deal with it. We hadfamily that was grieving our
daughter, and my wife and I arevery much the people who take
charge and manage things, bothof us do. And so it was our job
to set the ship right both forus, for Noah, for our families,
for the community, I went intoTawny's funeral and spoke from
(11:58):
the pulpit to her classmates,many of her graduating class was
at her funeral. And I rememberneeding to get up and talk to
them, to help them through it.
And I'm not trying to makemyself out to be a martyr, I
think it would have helped mehad I given myself the chance to
(12:20):
grieve and to heal. Butsometimes you don't have that
option. And I think the bestthing I could have done, and
this has only occurred to merecently, as we get older,
sometimes we have problemssleeping the night through. And
when I wake up at two in themorning, almost every morning,
the part of your brain that isthe true processor is basically
(12:44):
asleep. It doesn't wake up, youdon't know this, but the
prefrontal cortex just is notactive you're all reaction at
midnight and two in the morning.
And those dark thoughts, and itdoesn't, I'm not talking, you
know, gruesome thoughts, butthose dark thoughts start to
seep in, you know, you're notworthy, you're not going to
finish this, you never finishyour project, all that stuff
seeps in. And it's only beenrecently that I've learned to
(13:06):
sit with that and this is goingto sound weird and I'm going to
come back to grief in a minute -to sit with that and just let
those thoughts go, because Ican't stop them. You know,
that's that survival mode in theback of your brain that that
kept our caveman ancestorsalive. Okay. So I can't stop
those thoughts. But there was apart of my brain that just
(13:29):
recently has learned to say,just listen, let it go. Because
tomorrow, you're gonna see thisdifferently. And consistently,
I've felt that to be true. Andso I just trust that in the
darkest night of the soul, ifyou can trust yourself to just
listen, just sit with it. Don'ttry to fix it. Just sit with it,
(13:52):
and promise yourself thatthere'll be a better day. There
almost alaways is.
Michael Liben (14:00):
That's very true.
I think all of us who've lostchildren have these moments. I
don't know if it's guilt. Butall these "what if?" moments,
"what if I had turned leftinstead of turning right?" "What
if I had gone upstairs insteadof downstairs?" There's all
kinds of things. But life ischoices. Life is things
happening one after another in achain reaction. And you can't go
back and look at that and say Icould have controlled it
(14:23):
differently. Because youcouldn't. You didn't. And
there's nothing you can do aboutit now anyway. So there's a lot
of that. I think a lot of thatbeating oneself. I don't know if
it's guilt or trying to beguilty, maybe. saying I wish I
could have an answer as to howthis happened. And that turns to
guilt and it's sometimes very,very bad, very dangerous.
Roy Martin (14:46):
And I think Lee dealt with that guilt,
survivor's guilt. For me, it wasmore a regret so deep, and I've
years later now, years later, Iam just now able to have those
memories of Tawny and such,where not only can I laugh, but
truly, I don't become sorrowful.
And that's a recent occurrence.
(15:09):
I wish I could have gone back towhen this first happened. Not
only told myself, "Look in thedarkness of the night, there
will be another day, I promiseyou, it's going to be better". I
wish I could have also toldmyself, "I promise you, there
will come a day when you thinkabout Tawny and you don't morph
(15:30):
into grief". And I'm just nowreaching that point. And part of
that is I sort of communed withTawny in my brain anyway. And
the one thing she told me was,"Dad, stop it. I don't want you
to be sad when you think aboutme, and I know you laugh, and
you joke, but you turn sad,you've got to find your way
(15:53):
through the sadness". And it waslike, hearing that from her
voice. Even though this was me,gave myself permission. It's
almost like you feel this isyour child, and you have to
grieve, and you don't,subconsciously give yourself
permission, even if youintellectually think you did.
And I had to go there and bewith Tawny and have her tell me,
(16:18):
"Dad, I don't want you to besad. So if you can't do it for
you, do it for me, be happy, letthe sadness go". This is years
later. Now, this is just withinthe last six months or so.
Michael Liben (16:29):
I think it kind of cuts both ways. I reached a
point fairly early, where thememories made me happy to think
of her and all the things thatmy daughter did and the
craziness and silliness ofliving with autism. And I think
early on, we got to that point,but then it goes back sometimes,
(16:49):
where even now it's almost 11years later and I I'll still cry
for an instant, I'll be very sadfor an instant. But I have
developed some kind of internalmechanism to allow that to
happen, but not too much. So itebbs and flows. Most of the time
thinking of her makes me happy,because we had great times. And
(17:09):
I love that and I love her. Andit's just nice. And other times
even now, you can still get sad,but I think that's okay. You've
never really reached an endpoint into this, you just reach
a point where you can get alongwith it, and usually do pretty
well. Other factors may affectyour getting upset or not upset.
But basically, you reach thispoint where you can do well,
(17:30):
it's hard to believe it at thebeginning, you don't think it's
going to happen.
Roy Martin (17:34):
On that note, throughout life, I've heard
certain sayings and some of themresonate. And you don't know why
until years later, one that Iheard when I was younger, twenty
something, you can never crossthe same river twice. You're not
the same, and neither is theriver. And it's that idea that
it's a journey, you think you'vegot it conquered. And you
eventually have to get back tothat point where you realize it
(17:56):
is not a destination. It's aNorthstar, you're traveling in
that direction. But you're nevergoing to get there. And so it's
that ebb and flow you spokeabout. You, you think you've got
it conquered and well, no,because the river is going to
change on you. That's anotherone of those life lessons that
had I've been able to to trulyinternalize years ago, some of
this might have been easier,maybe
Michael Liben (18:18):
I will use a different analogy. You're going
to face these challenges, timeand time again. And the river
isn't exactly the same river andyou're not exactly the same
person, but you are who youwere. And the river is still a
river, what you've developed,there is a playbook. So you know
when it goes like this when thetide is high, I got to do this
when the tide is low, I got todo that. So you figure out a way
(18:38):
to get through all of theseissues as they come back because
you've seen them before.
Roy Martin (18:42):
I used to call that "the minefield" right after
Tawny died, I learned there arecertain landmines out there. And
as I got - don't go there, atleast not in this crowd because
you're going to start crying soyou can go there when you're
alone. That's okay. And it'sthat same idea, you learn
lessons and the only way tolearn them is to hit that
landmine have it blow up on you.
Not, I'm sorry, that's a badgraphic but and to experience
(19:05):
it. And then if you have thewherewithal to say this is not
good and sit with that for alittle bit. And then you'll know
later and give yourself creditfor learning that lesson and
know when to avoid thatsituation and when it's okay to
experience it.
HUG Info (19:27):
If you've enjoyed listening to this program,
please visit our websiteheartsunitetheglobe.org and make
a contribution. This program isa presentation of Hearts Unite
the Globe and is part of the HUGPodcast Network. Hearts Unite
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community to educate, empower,and enrich the lives of our
community members. If you wouldlike access to free resources
(19:50):
pertaining to the CHD community,please visit our website at
congenitalheartdefects.com. Forinformation about CHD, hospitals
that treat CHD survivors, summercamps for CHD families, and
much, much more.
Michael Liben (20:04):
Roy, can you talk to me about your experience with
dealing with grief becauseyou've experienced more than
just losing your daughter. Sotalk to us about some of the
other losses you experienced.
Roy Martin (20:15):
After Tawny passed on, we basically lost my wife's
father, Noan's grandpa, lost mywife's mother, lost his grandma,
then lost my mother. And thenjust recently with weeks ago,
lost my father. So Tawny was thefirst of five. And the
(20:38):
interesting thing is, each timeit was different, I don't want
to lean too heavily on themetaphor that you're different
nd the river is different. Buttruly, it was different with
Tawny's grief, I think Lynn andI took too much on ourselves,
and we did not offer ourselvesthe ability to heal the way we
should have. And with the nextpassing one of the grandmothers,
(21:04):
it was a little better, it'snever easy, it never gets
better. But by then I hadstarted to learn some of the
pain points. And honestly, Godand the universe hit me with the
worst thing anyone canexperience to lose a parent, you
subconsciously think about them.
To lose a sibling, it's hard tolose a child. Wow, we started
(21:27):
off probably with the mostdifficult experience any human
is ever gonna feel.
Michael Liben (21:34):
That's true.
Roy Martin (21:35):
The process was different for each of us. Noah
grieved differently than Lynndid, which is different than how
I grieved and the timespan'sdifferent. The interesting thing
is we each have different thingsthat made it bearable. And when
I say different things, whatworked for me didn't work for
Noah. So you know, we could gointo an hour long segment just
(21:56):
on what worked with you, I thinkthe thing to understand is what
I did not do, which I shouldhave was given myself permission
to take time, I went back towork a week later. And it wasn't
because I'm a workaholic.
Looking back, it's because Iwanted to escape. I needed to
escape all those feelings. And Iknow it now.
Michael Liben (22:18):
Roy, I'm gonna stop, but I just want to stop
you for a second because that istotally fair. Some people want
to escape that moment. And thatmay be the way to do it is to go
back to it. There isn't a wrongway to do this. And I think we
really need to make that clear.
You may say now that it waswrong for you then and that's
fine. But I wouldn't take itaway from somebody who goes back
(22:40):
to work right away. I wouldn'tdo it. You wouldn't do it again,
I think. But for some peoplethat's what works.
Roy Martin (22:49):
I think you're right, Michael, it was the
novocaine it was the anestheticthat helped me get through the
difficult time, the thing whereI think I made the mistake was
not doing part two, which isokay, we've deadened the pain
long enough but now you havethese recovery things, Roy, you
need to go through. And it'sthat part that I just tried to
(23:12):
escape it. I tried to escapeback into work, and it was a
coping mechanism. But it was acrutch that I I just never went
on to step two, it took me yearsto go on to step two.
Michael Liben (23:25):
Again, that's fair, that happens to people.
Roy Martin (23:27):
I'm not beating myself up. I'm sure - happen.
Yeah...
Michael Liben (23:33):
But I just want to be very clear to people,
because people listen to thisprogram, in part, to hear how
other people have gone throughit. And in some sense, they may
compare and contrast or theymight be learning a lesson for
now, for the future. It'simportant when we get to this
point in the conversation, thereis no wrong way to do it. And
there isn't a right way to doit. There's a way that's right
(23:55):
for you, if you're lucky enoughto find it. Or if somebody can
help you get there. That'sgreat. But most people I think,
go through this on their own,which is unfortunate. And a lot
has been said on this programabout society in the west and in
America in particular, where wedon't always have an organized
system. Now, that's not true foreverybody. We're not going to go
(24:17):
there today. But a lot of timespeople need an organized system
to help them. So when you'regoing through it on your own,
which most people seem to do,there's no wrong way and there
isn't a right way. There's manyright ways to find it's good for
you. And I think it's importantto we tell people that
Roy Martin (24:33):
I would suggest what is right for you is right for
you. Hopefully, as quickly asyou can you realize what is not
no longer serving you and whereyou need to either ask for help
or or acknowledge that you'renot where you need to be. And
(24:55):
and key to this is that ideathat I had mentioned earlier
that there's going to be abetter time. Sometimes you have
to work to get to that point.
And I, a, I just didn't thinkthere would be a better time.
And so I never opened myself upto feeling better. And, if so,
if there was somebody listeningand say, "Well, I did go to back
(25:17):
to work, I did this",absolutely, you've got to do
what you've got to do, but havean aspiration, of being happy,
have an aspiration, of beinghealthy, both for yourself, and
just as importantly for yourfamily, for that eight year old,
who's now an 18 year old andstill dealing with it, have that
aspiration, have that goal, andthat's what I didn't have, I was
(25:39):
too willing to be the martyr ofthe child who died. And that was
my lot in the universe. Andthat's not what Tawny wanted for
me. And it took that, for me tosort of break away from that,
that thought that it's nevergonna get better.
Michael Liben (26:06):
Do you think that also may be delayed? Your
getting there? Because you justdidn't see it coming?
Roy Martin (26:13):
I need to think about that. I'm not sure. I'm
not sure.
Michael Liben (26:15):
Well, I'll ask it differently. Had you aspired
earlier to reach a point whereit would be all right with you,
do you think you'd have gottenthere faster?
Roy Martin (26:24):
Yes, I think if I had heard the message in the way
I finally visualized it formyself. Stop. Put yourself in
the image of your child here,your wife, your parent. Would
they want you to be this way therest of your life? The minute
(26:47):
you put it in that perspective,if it was you, Roy, and, and you
passed away, what about Noah,would you want him to be sad
forever? Well, no, of coursenot.
Michael Liben (26:59):
There it is.
Roy Martin (27:00):
Okay then. Okay, then give yourself permission,
because that's not what youwould not for them. That's not
what your daughter wants foryou. The minute I gave myself
that permission from Tawny, andmaybe that was the key, I had to
hear it from Tawny, even if itwas in my own head, that "Daddy,
stop being so sad about me".
That's all it took, a dooropened. And it took me a while
(27:24):
to make that journey across thethreshold. But that's what I
took. So I would, I wouldsuggest to any, any person who
is grieving, put yourselves inthe shoes of the other person.
And, you know, would they wantyou to feel this way forever?
Yes, it's supposed to hurt whensomebody you love dies, but
(27:46):
forever? And they probably wouldgive you permission to be happy
again. And you need to honortheir wish.
Michael Liben (27:58):
Roy Martin, thank you so much for joining us on
"Bereaved But Still Me". You arean inspiration to anybody who
has been through this. And weall know somebody or ourselves
have been, where you are andwhere you've been. So thank you
for sharing that with us. Thankyou so much.
Roy Martin (28:14):
Thank you, Michael.
And thank you to everyone outthere that supports the show and
supports everyone else in grief.
Thank you.
Michael Liben (28:22):
And that concludes this episode of
"Bereaved But Still Me". I wantto thank Roy for sharing his
experience and his wisdom withus. Please join us again at the
beginning of the month for a newepisode and I'll be with you
soon. But until then pleaseremember, moving forward is not
moving away.
Anna Jaworski (28:36):
Thank you for joining us. We help you have
felt supported in your griefjourney. "Bereaved But Still Me"
is a monthly podcast, and a newepisode is released on the first
Thursday of each month. You canhear our podcast anywhere you
normally listen to podcasts atany time. Join us again next
month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".
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