October 23, 2024 • 27 mins
Crystal Welch and Anne Cuckoldress team up to discuss the importance of finding community in cuckolding, and in kink in general. They also discuss the ethics of sleeping with married men, and as always, sharing exciting stories from their time in the cuckold lifestyle.
Anne's Blog on Cuckold Marriage
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We found our tribe, you know, that's how we felt about it.
We have finally found our tribe.You know, the cucks all had
nothing on but their little cages and there were the group
of bulls that we could stand around and flirt with and it was
a blast. Hey everybody, I just wanted to
(00:24):
give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a
one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal.
It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore
ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've
been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton.
And I hope to share some of thatwisdom with you in the hopes
(00:46):
that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the
show notes and I hope to see youthere.
Hello everybody. Crystal Welch here.
We have another great episode with my dear friend Anne, and
we're going to cover a couple interesting things today.
One of which is there were some questions that came from our
(01:06):
last episode about being with married men.
So we both want to take a few minutes to to address that.
But the real important message of this particular episode is
the importance of community, however you build it.
So we'll share some of our experience with that and what
(01:27):
we've obtained from that and thebenefits of doing that.
But first I'm going to ask you and to say hello.
And you mentioned last week thatyou had a couple of married
lovers. So talk us through where the
where the glitch comes is because it's consensual non
(01:47):
monogamy, meaning should everybody should be consenting
and many times married men are their wives are not consenting.
And so why don't you walk us through that whole process and
how you have arrived where you are?
Hi everyone and thanks Crystal. It's fun to be back when it
(02:10):
comes to engaging with married men.
You know, I'm not looking for married men.
I'm obviously prefer single men.That's in my profile.
That's what I'm looking for. But there have been on occasion
a few married men who've reachedout to me and the conversation,
(02:32):
you know, I always talk to them on the phone and understand
where they're coming from and how they got in the lifestyle.
And most times, you know, they started got involved in
lifestyle. Maybe they're in college.
These two people in particular, college athletes and I've heard
the story over and over again and after a period of time, you
(02:55):
know, they find their partner, they get married and they want
to stay in the lifestyle. However, their partner's not
interested. And I can see that based on
their ages and their, you know, whatever is going on in their
lives. However, they're both very
happily married. They just need a little
something like me. They like variety.
(03:16):
So before I, you know, and I kind of, I in a teasing way, I
referred to them as cheater 1 and cheater 2.
That probably wasn't fair to them.
They're honestly fantastic men. They, I don't initiate anything
(03:36):
with them. They initiate with me.
And if their schedules are free and my schedule's free, then we
may get together. It may be just meeting for
coffee and maybe it's a blowjob in the back seat, but it's
really fun. And you know, one has come over
(03:57):
here a couple of times. James adores him.
Such a good guy, so polite, so respectful.
But we don't talk about anything.
You know, I'm not quizzing him on things.
He fills me in on his, you know,kids like what they're up to and
you know where they went on vacation.
So there's no secrets. And that's what I appreciate
(04:19):
about it. There's no secrets.
So I think you have to use a judgement call.
Like I said before, when you're looking for men, if you close
the doors on everyone, then at least for me, you limit some
potentially fantastic friendships with some great men.
(04:40):
Now, maybe it's non consensual on their, you know, between them
and their partner, but I don't have anything to do with that.
I don't talk to them through their cell phone.
It's through Telegram. I am looking for sexual
satisfaction and when I'm happy,James is happy.
One instance I we met him out atthis kind of coffee or outdoor
(05:04):
kind of mall area where there are plenty of shops and parking
garages and we met for coffee. James stayed and paid the bill.
I went with him to his car, Granite.
He had a car seat in the back. So in the front seat, you know,
we had some fun. He I ended up giving him a
blowjob. I didn't swallow.
(05:26):
I left. You know, we had a great time.
It was Christmas. We're both going to leave and do
Christmas shopping. I go find James.
I kiss him and I feed him to come so hot and.
What a story. So there are little things like
that. It's just different.
It's, you know, you're not. Yeah.
Would it be nice to go out on a date?
I'm not going to go on a date with them.
Like, no. We might meet for coffee.
(05:47):
They may come here. And if it happens twice a year,
that's great. But we stay in touch and we ask
each other how how are things? How is life, How are you?
And when I get those questions, I feel it's very sincere.
And they wouldn't be staying in touch with me if they didn't
trust me and feel safe. And so it's is it my preference
(06:11):
to have married men? No.
But because I'm so particular, if we get to that point, you
know, I'm not going to press or judge them because I started out
in the swinging lifestyle for years.
And when I was at Splash last time, one of the gentlemen said,
yeah, half them in here are married.
And I, you know, you don't care like you're everybody's there
(06:34):
for. They love interracial sex, they
love building friendships. You know, maybe it's a one off,
maybe it's not, but everybody isthere with the same for the same
purpose, right? So, so that's where I'm coming
from. For the person who was
concerned, I think you, you just, you have to use your own
(06:56):
judgment and do what feels good to you.
We have evolved on the issue. When we first started, we had a
really hard line against, not against married men, but married
men whose wives didn't know, which are two different
categories. And then Bichard started talking
(07:16):
to, he started texting with a guy he met I think on black to
white or something like that, and they just had the best
conversation. He goes, you've got to talk to
this guy. He's so smart and he's got a
great sense of humor and all thethings that you love.
He's married, so he's not going to be, you know, right for us.
But anyway, talk to him. You'll enjoy him.
And so, so I did. And from that minute on, it was
(07:40):
on and we just clicked on every single level.
And so we talked for several months, I mean, like every day.
And we said, we just got to go meet him just one time.
We're in Oregon and he was in Southern California.
And we, we just, you know, he's,he's just too much good stuff.
(08:04):
We have to go meet him. And so we did.
We spent the weekend down there.And I, I'm here to tell you, it
was the most fantastic, literally the best weekend in
this lifestyle of our lives. All three of us just fell madly
in love with each other. I mean, they were just best
friends. He and I were just connected
(08:26):
bodies, soul. And, you know, it was completely
unexpected that way. So the first thing I would bring
up is anybody in this lifestyle,it's possible that you'll get
over involved with somebody. It's just possible, you know,
it's possible. So you know better to talk with
your spouse prior to. And, and we hadn't really
because we had drawn this hard line against married people.
(08:49):
And yet here we were with this guy and we were absolutely
involved with him. What ultimately happened is he
did come up here for his board meeting and he ended up being
working that whole weekend and Ijust blew a fuse.
I thought, you know, it's not hard enough to get together
already, but OK, so you've got aboard position, but all weekend,
(09:10):
I mean, hello. So anyway, I ended it and I and
I'm not sorry that I did, it wasthe right thing to do, but I, we
both took a lot out of that whole situation.
A Never assume that you're not going to get over involved with
someone. You might.
And then you need to have your Plan B in your mind about what
you're going to do with it. We're a lot less judgmental
(09:33):
about the married thing because we came to the same conclusion
basically that you did. It's none of our damn business
what he does with his wife. You know, our relationship is
with him. Whatever he does with his wife
is his business. And it's just not our business.
And that's pretty much how we hold.
Now, I, I like you. I absolutely wouldn't seek out a
(09:55):
a married person if for no otherreason then it is possible to
get over involved and it's then it gets really uncomfortable.
All that to say, I feel very much like you do and it's none
of my business. You know, my bigger question and
much more important to me than are you married is what actually
(10:17):
is your availability? That tells me a lot of what I
need to know. You know, what is your
availability? Can you go out to restaurants?
Can you spend the night? Can you spend weekends?
You know, I want to know what their parameters are and what
their availability is, because that's much more important to
us. And however they manage their
(10:39):
own life and their own free time, it's just none of our
business. So that's, that's kind of how we
resolved all of that. It can be a minefield.
It can be a minefield. It sounds like you found a
really a really gracious, you know, a couple of guys that you
know that it's easy to maintain a a real casual thing with,
which is great. Hopefully that answered the the
(11:02):
main questions that people have about if it's consensual non
monogamy, why are you doing married guys?
Well, it's none of our business.That's basically, that's
basically, that's basically whatwe that's our conclusion.
Yeah, and everyone, everyone canmake their own choice.
It's like you're, it's your choice.
(11:23):
Like, yeah, it's whatever. Just, you know, be safe and
smart about it. You know, common sense goes a
long way. Sure, Do.
The bigger thing that I think that we wanted to talk about
today too, is the importance of community, meaning having other
friends and associates that share your lifestyle interests,
(11:45):
whatever they may be. I was never a swinger.
My first excursion to Splash Mocha was a shocking bit of
reality. I mean, it was like kid in a
candy store. But I like, I didn't even know
what to do. And I did meet one very nice
person there that we ended up having a wonderful time with,
(12:07):
which Anne's going to get to meet pretty soon, which is
really fun, Really fun. But the biggest thing that I
took out of that whole Splash Mocha experience for us and, and
Bichard will agree with this. On Friday night, one of our
friends hosted a cocktail party.And that was so much fun.
(12:29):
I can't even tell you because for the first time we were in A
room. That first one, I think there
were only maybe 20, not more than 30 people, so maybe 15
couples. But they were people like us and
we found our tribe. You know, that's how we felt
about it. We have finally found our tribe.
You know, the cucks all had nothing on but their little
(12:51):
cages or, and some T-shirt that was humiliating, like I have a
small cock or, you know something.
There were some really funny ones.
There were some really funny ones there.
And there were the group of bulls that we could stand around
and flirt with and it was a blast.
So that that was the high point of splash for us.
(13:14):
And then the second time we wentwas the same thing, only the
cocktail party was 50-60 people.This time it's growing
exponentially, but the bigger message there is that we found
our tribe through that. So whether or not cucking is
your thing or not, find however you can find a group of people
(13:37):
that share your interests. It helps so much.
You know, I've learned stuff from Ann even on on these
podcasts that we've done and everybody that I know in the
lifestyle, in the chat rooms that we're in and various places
where we intersect. You can just learn so much and
it's a great place to bring a question or great place to
(13:58):
examine your own mindset about something and being in a group
of your peers that are that's non judgmental and you can just
totally be you. It's like being wrapped in a
warm fuzzy blanket. And I and for those of you who
have not found a community yet, I strongly encourage you to do
(14:20):
that. What's your experience with
Community Anne? I, you know, I tend to, I, I
agree with you. I think community is always
important. Even, you know, beginning with
the swinging, we had, you know, 2 couples that we became very
good friends and one, we've beento each other's kids weddings,
you know, it's that kind of friendship.
(14:42):
They're not, we don't play with them anymore, but we're just
solid, solid friends that you can talk about anything.
But as far as within the cuckolding dynamic, we were
fortunate when we've discovered cuckolding and I started writing
in the CM blog somewhat. There was a little community
there at one point and somebody there said, hey, you need to
(15:05):
check out Michael C's podcast. And that opened us up to kind of
a whole new community of people through that I've met 2
cuckoldresses that we ended up being on a podcast together and
one her and her cuck have since moved to Phoenix, AZ And so we
see them, you know, when we can so that.
(15:26):
And then over COVID, Michael C Keys and inklets started some
zoom kind of happy hour things where he just didn't invited
people that he knew, cuckle couples.
And through that, a smaller group of us who we felt like we
were on the same page. We splintered off and so felt
like we had this little tribe and our little tribe went to the
(15:49):
splash Mocha where we met Crystal and Bichard and just the
whole community just keeps growing.
And through that, like you can then reach out and, you know,
talk to one another about issuesor funny and share stories or
some of women we share lovers, you know, Hey, I'm, you know, I
(16:10):
have somebody who's going to be in and I just did this the other
day, someone I knew was going tobe in Atlanta.
So I put it out there in a groupof women just saying, hey, he's
there. If you guys, if anybody's in
Atlanta like I would happy to connect you, you know that sort
of thing, you know, referrals. Yes, sharing is caring in our
world. Only share the only share the
(16:32):
best with the best. Sometimes it's like you don't
want to if local, like I'm not so sure would be like sharing a
babysit. Yeah, like your favorite
babysitter, but it's not the same.
But there's that. And then also like building your
community of your your lovers, like they are also good
referrals. Like one of my friends, like
he's wasn't he was busy. We were in LA and he said you
(16:56):
know what, I am busy, but I think you really should meet,
you know this person and and I trust him and the same.
I would refer him to a couple and they are great people to
bounce ideas off of. So that's why it's important for
me to build friendships with people, lovers, couples because
(17:17):
it just normalizes this for us. I don't feel it weird or
anything because it's who we are, but it does normalizes.
It gives you people to talk to. You know the nice thing about
these, all these people in this community, you could talk to
them about anything, you know, doesn't matter what the subject
is. And that's what we love.
About no, that's right, super open minded.
(17:41):
And James is he's not in I'm thesocial butterfly of us.
But when he indicate, when he's with people in person, you know,
he engage, he's very, you know, chatty.
And it also makes it good for him because now he's got his
people he doesn't need. You know, he's not on Twitter or
tax or anything like that, but he has these solid foundations
(18:04):
with a lot of cuckolds that are.Yeah, Bichard, too, he doesn't
do social media, so he misses that whole aspect.
So being able to meet these people in person and he did the
same thing. He and his little tribe of dudes
that he met at Splash Mocha, they created a little group and
he's not even there very often, but still he goes in there.
It's great for creative ideas. I mean, they have, I mean,
(18:28):
that's good for all of us. People have different creative
ideas of things to do. Or you know, a new humiliation
technique or something like thator something that's just funny.
That's amusing and it's it's really great to have a group of
people that you can share that stuff with and they don't think
you're. Weird, no?
(18:49):
And I. Think it's totally normal.
And when we this whole swing, you think we avoided like
swinger parties, like nobody's business.
We'd go to a meet and greet, butlike the big parties that you
had to pay, we just never did it.
So we were hesitant to go to splash.
It's like, no, it's we don't. We can't imagine what it's going
to be like. And it was through our little
(19:11):
community. One couple went and they're
like, Oh my God, this was so much fun.
So she convinced others of us togo and that's when we met you.
And it's just like, thank goodness for our little group
because we we wouldn't have gonehad we not.
Yeah, that's where I met you and, and many of the same people
that you're, I know that you're referencing and it's where I met
(19:34):
Venus. I mean, so we've, we've had a
collaboration since then. I mean friendships that I'll
have, I hope that I have the rest of my life.
I mean solid friendships. And I'm, I'm so grateful for it.
I'm so incredibly grateful for it.
So I guess what we're trying to say is if you don't, if you're
not part of a community, somehowfind one.
(19:58):
It will enrich you tremendously and it'll give you.
Lots of laughs, creative ideas, support, friendship, all the
things that make life and this lifestyle worth living.
And just do it. I agree.
Agree. Well, since you told me about
(20:19):
your date this week in Crystal, why don't you talk about the
anticipation that you're feeling?
And oh man, and I was afraid of that.
And Speaking of community, because this is leads right into
community. You have something you're
looking forward to and you wouldnot have been introduced had it
not been for a sister. That is correct.
(20:41):
That is correct. And you know, I'm going to get
you back for this one time and somehow, yes, I am a little
angsty about it. So here's our deal.
We have been mired down in a family situation literally for
the last couple of years. It really interfered with
literally every bit of lifestyle.
So as we started to tiptoe back in, you know, what we've counted
(21:06):
on was our community, you know, stayed in touch with our friends
and, you know, kept talking to everybody.
We made a good friend up in Vancouver, BC.
I don't know how she does it. She's got magic dust because
they're, they're not exactly inundated with people of color
up there either. But she is like a magnet and she
(21:26):
has all kinds of associations. And so she had mentioned this
one person, my girlfriend in thelifestyle part of our community,
you know, introduced us personally and we started
talking. Well, we've been talking about
the last 7-8, nine months now. And so this weekend he's
actually coming to our city and it's a, it's a six hour drive.
(21:51):
So he's making a real effort andI'm excited to meet him.
He's, he's very down to earth, just really nice people.
And you say, well, how can you spend a whole weekend with
someone and you haven't really met them yet?
I mean, we haven't even been outfor a drink or anything.
Well, the reason is, is because he's a personal referral from
somebody that I trust. So I'm a little angsty about it
(22:12):
just because I've been out of the game for so long.
I mean, I, it's easier when you're constantly jumping in the
pool to get back in the pool, But when you sit out on the
sidelines for a couple of years,it's, it's cold getting back in
the water. And so that's kind of, that's
kind of how I see it, but I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be really good for us as acouple and just really good to,
(22:36):
you know, reintroduce myself to my own sexuality and I'm I'm
really looking forward to it. So I maybe I can be coached to
give some deep some deets on that next next time we do an
episode. But let's say hopefully you have
some. Hopefully you have some and it's
fantastic. I know, I know.
(22:57):
Yeah, we're we're I always referto us as sort of a Poly flavored
cut couple. We like relationships with
people. I don't do the one and done
thing at all. I don't find it interesting.
In fact, I wish I kind of did because it would be a lot easier
to find that than it is what we're looking for.
But you know, we are what we are.
(23:19):
So anyway, it's I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be fun to have time to actually get to know him because
we'll have enough physical time to actually get to know him.
And at the very, very least, I'mconvinced that we will have a
very good friendship. I hope that we're sexually
compatible. I'm optimistic about that.
(23:40):
My friend has referred him in that way.
She's she's known him in the biblical sense and she said that
that all works really good. So, you know, again, This is why
you need a community, because you can get referrals from
people that you trust and yeah, and it can lead you into
situations that you wouldn't in a million years find on your
(24:01):
own. Yeah.
Well, I think that, you know, we've already talked about how
we find and search and and all that and what it boils down to
the best are the referrals and the anticipation is real.
I mean, I get butterflies every time I'm actually seeing someone
this evening who he travels hereon a regular basis for work.
(24:26):
And, you know, he's probably here every other month and have
never been able to get together.And I wasn't sure.
But I did meet him for coffee one morning on his way in to
where he had to go. And I didn't have a lot of time
and conversation was so great. And but I didn't like it.
We didn't kiss. Like the place was really
crowded and the parking lot was packed and we were parked at
(24:48):
different sides and didn't have a lot of time.
So I haven't he hasn't had my test.
So I'm looking forward to seeinghim in a more relaxed setting
where there's no time constraints and and seeing where
it goes because he is here, he has a work commitment here.
Every. Yeah, I don't know that it's
once a month, but every two months or so.
(25:10):
So that'd. Be really?
That'd be really great. It sounds like you know enough
about him though that you know you're physically attracted to
him, and as long as the physicalthing all works, and that could
work into a really good situation.
Yeah, and I think it's like this, the intellectual pieces
there. The conversation was just.
But he's, he's really busy, so he doesn't do a lot of flirting
and chatting. So I, I might say something to
(25:35):
him. But, you know, some guys, that's
just not their thing, you know. And so, yeah, the good news is
as he's reached out, I'm really looking forward to it.
Like, so he's reached out two orthree times since the plans were
made. So that's good.
It's not total science. Well, I.
I'm wishing you luck sister. I hope that all works out.
(25:55):
Well, maybe I'll have something to share next time.
I don't know all. Right.
We'll, we'll, we'll hold the high watch for that.
Well, I think that's it for today.
Thank you again for for joining me.
We are going to take up some other vital topic next time, but
I appreciate you spending some time with me.
(26:17):
And I think this is an importanttopic.
Community is super important to figure.
Figuring out where your boundaries are with married
people and how much you're goingto get all up in people's
business is is a really good topic.
Those are all good things to talk over with your partner and
hopefully, you know, you can strategize a way to come to some
(26:38):
agreement on all of that. But do find a community.
It's just golden. Thanks everyone.
Bye everybody.
We found our tribe, you know, that's how we felt about it.
We have finally found our tribe.You know, the cucks all had
nothing on but their little cages and there were the group
of bulls that we could stand around and flirt with and it was
a blast. Hey everybody, I just wanted to
(00:24):
give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a
one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal.
It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore
ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've
been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton.
And I hope to share some of thatwisdom with you in the hopes
(00:46):
that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the
show notes and I hope to see youthere.
Hello everybody. Crystal Welch here.
We have another great episode with my dear friend Anne, and
we're going to cover a couple interesting things today.
One of which is there were some questions that came from our
(01:06):
last episode about being with married men.
So we both want to take a few minutes to to address that.
But the real important message of this particular episode is
the importance of community, however you build it.
So we'll share some of our experience with that and what
(01:27):
we've obtained from that and thebenefits of doing that.
But first I'm going to ask you and to say hello.
And you mentioned last week thatyou had a couple of married
lovers. So talk us through where the
where the glitch comes is because it's consensual non
(01:47):
monogamy, meaning should everybody should be consenting
and many times married men are their wives are not consenting.
And so why don't you walk us through that whole process and
how you have arrived where you are?
Hi everyone and thanks Crystal. It's fun to be back when it
(02:10):
comes to engaging with married men.
You know, I'm not looking for married men.
I'm obviously prefer single men.That's in my profile.
That's what I'm looking for. But there have been on occasion
a few married men who've reachedout to me and the conversation,
(02:32):
you know, I always talk to them on the phone and understand
where they're coming from and how they got in the lifestyle.
And most times, you know, they started got involved in
lifestyle. Maybe they're in college.
These two people in particular, college athletes and I've heard
the story over and over again and after a period of time, you
(02:55):
know, they find their partner, they get married and they want
to stay in the lifestyle. However, their partner's not
interested. And I can see that based on
their ages and their, you know, whatever is going on in their
lives. However, they're both very
happily married. They just need a little
something like me. They like variety.
(03:16):
So before I, you know, and I kind of, I in a teasing way, I
referred to them as cheater 1 and cheater 2.
That probably wasn't fair to them.
They're honestly fantastic men. They, I don't initiate anything
(03:36):
with them. They initiate with me.
And if their schedules are free and my schedule's free, then we
may get together. It may be just meeting for
coffee and maybe it's a blowjob in the back seat, but it's
really fun. And you know, one has come over
(03:57):
here a couple of times. James adores him.
Such a good guy, so polite, so respectful.
But we don't talk about anything.
You know, I'm not quizzing him on things.
He fills me in on his, you know,kids like what they're up to and
you know where they went on vacation.
So there's no secrets. And that's what I appreciate
(04:19):
about it. There's no secrets.
So I think you have to use a judgement call.
Like I said before, when you're looking for men, if you close
the doors on everyone, then at least for me, you limit some
potentially fantastic friendships with some great men.
(04:40):
Now, maybe it's non consensual on their, you know, between them
and their partner, but I don't have anything to do with that.
I don't talk to them through their cell phone.
It's through Telegram. I am looking for sexual
satisfaction and when I'm happy,James is happy.
One instance I we met him out atthis kind of coffee or outdoor
(05:04):
kind of mall area where there are plenty of shops and parking
garages and we met for coffee. James stayed and paid the bill.
I went with him to his car, Granite.
He had a car seat in the back. So in the front seat, you know,
we had some fun. He I ended up giving him a
blowjob. I didn't swallow.
(05:26):
I left. You know, we had a great time.
It was Christmas. We're both going to leave and do
Christmas shopping. I go find James.
I kiss him and I feed him to come so hot and.
What a story. So there are little things like
that. It's just different.
It's, you know, you're not. Yeah.
Would it be nice to go out on a date?
I'm not going to go on a date with them.
Like, no. We might meet for coffee.
(05:47):
They may come here. And if it happens twice a year,
that's great. But we stay in touch and we ask
each other how how are things? How is life, How are you?
And when I get those questions, I feel it's very sincere.
And they wouldn't be staying in touch with me if they didn't
trust me and feel safe. And so it's is it my preference
(06:11):
to have married men? No.
But because I'm so particular, if we get to that point, you
know, I'm not going to press or judge them because I started out
in the swinging lifestyle for years.
And when I was at Splash last time, one of the gentlemen said,
yeah, half them in here are married.
And I, you know, you don't care like you're everybody's there
(06:34):
for. They love interracial sex, they
love building friendships. You know, maybe it's a one off,
maybe it's not, but everybody isthere with the same for the same
purpose, right? So, so that's where I'm coming
from. For the person who was
concerned, I think you, you just, you have to use your own
(06:56):
judgment and do what feels good to you.
We have evolved on the issue. When we first started, we had a
really hard line against, not against married men, but married
men whose wives didn't know, which are two different
categories. And then Bichard started talking
(07:16):
to, he started texting with a guy he met I think on black to
white or something like that, and they just had the best
conversation. He goes, you've got to talk to
this guy. He's so smart and he's got a
great sense of humor and all thethings that you love.
He's married, so he's not going to be, you know, right for us.
But anyway, talk to him. You'll enjoy him.
And so, so I did. And from that minute on, it was
(07:40):
on and we just clicked on every single level.
And so we talked for several months, I mean, like every day.
And we said, we just got to go meet him just one time.
We're in Oregon and he was in Southern California.
And we, we just, you know, he's,he's just too much good stuff.
(08:04):
We have to go meet him. And so we did.
We spent the weekend down there.And I, I'm here to tell you, it
was the most fantastic, literally the best weekend in
this lifestyle of our lives. All three of us just fell madly
in love with each other. I mean, they were just best
friends. He and I were just connected
(08:26):
bodies, soul. And, you know, it was completely
unexpected that way. So the first thing I would bring
up is anybody in this lifestyle,it's possible that you'll get
over involved with somebody. It's just possible, you know,
it's possible. So you know better to talk with
your spouse prior to. And, and we hadn't really
because we had drawn this hard line against married people.
(08:49):
And yet here we were with this guy and we were absolutely
involved with him. What ultimately happened is he
did come up here for his board meeting and he ended up being
working that whole weekend and Ijust blew a fuse.
I thought, you know, it's not hard enough to get together
already, but OK, so you've got aboard position, but all weekend,
(09:10):
I mean, hello. So anyway, I ended it and I and
I'm not sorry that I did, it wasthe right thing to do, but I, we
both took a lot out of that whole situation.
A Never assume that you're not going to get over involved with
someone. You might.
And then you need to have your Plan B in your mind about what
you're going to do with it. We're a lot less judgmental
(09:33):
about the married thing because we came to the same conclusion
basically that you did. It's none of our damn business
what he does with his wife. You know, our relationship is
with him. Whatever he does with his wife
is his business. And it's just not our business.
And that's pretty much how we hold.
Now, I, I like you. I absolutely wouldn't seek out a
(09:55):
a married person if for no otherreason then it is possible to
get over involved and it's then it gets really uncomfortable.
All that to say, I feel very much like you do and it's none
of my business. You know, my bigger question and
much more important to me than are you married is what actually
(10:17):
is your availability? That tells me a lot of what I
need to know. You know, what is your
availability? Can you go out to restaurants?
Can you spend the night? Can you spend weekends?
You know, I want to know what their parameters are and what
their availability is, because that's much more important to
us. And however they manage their
(10:39):
own life and their own free time, it's just none of our
business. So that's, that's kind of how we
resolved all of that. It can be a minefield.
It can be a minefield. It sounds like you found a
really a really gracious, you know, a couple of guys that you
know that it's easy to maintain a a real casual thing with,
which is great. Hopefully that answered the the
(11:02):
main questions that people have about if it's consensual non
monogamy, why are you doing married guys?
Well, it's none of our business.That's basically, that's
basically, that's basically whatwe that's our conclusion.
Yeah, and everyone, everyone canmake their own choice.
It's like you're, it's your choice.
(11:23):
Like, yeah, it's whatever. Just, you know, be safe and
smart about it. You know, common sense goes a
long way. Sure, Do.
The bigger thing that I think that we wanted to talk about
today too, is the importance of community, meaning having other
friends and associates that share your lifestyle interests,
(11:45):
whatever they may be. I was never a swinger.
My first excursion to Splash Mocha was a shocking bit of
reality. I mean, it was like kid in a
candy store. But I like, I didn't even know
what to do. And I did meet one very nice
person there that we ended up having a wonderful time with,
(12:07):
which Anne's going to get to meet pretty soon, which is
really fun, Really fun. But the biggest thing that I
took out of that whole Splash Mocha experience for us and, and
Bichard will agree with this. On Friday night, one of our
friends hosted a cocktail party.And that was so much fun.
(12:29):
I can't even tell you because for the first time we were in A
room. That first one, I think there
were only maybe 20, not more than 30 people, so maybe 15
couples. But they were people like us and
we found our tribe. You know, that's how we felt
about it. We have finally found our tribe.
You know, the cucks all had nothing on but their little
(12:51):
cages or, and some T-shirt that was humiliating, like I have a
small cock or, you know something.
There were some really funny ones.
There were some really funny ones there.
And there were the group of bulls that we could stand around
and flirt with and it was a blast.
So that that was the high point of splash for us.
(13:14):
And then the second time we wentwas the same thing, only the
cocktail party was 50-60 people.This time it's growing
exponentially, but the bigger message there is that we found
our tribe through that. So whether or not cucking is
your thing or not, find however you can find a group of people
(13:37):
that share your interests. It helps so much.
You know, I've learned stuff from Ann even on on these
podcasts that we've done and everybody that I know in the
lifestyle, in the chat rooms that we're in and various places
where we intersect. You can just learn so much and
it's a great place to bring a question or great place to
(13:58):
examine your own mindset about something and being in a group
of your peers that are that's non judgmental and you can just
totally be you. It's like being wrapped in a
warm fuzzy blanket. And I and for those of you who
have not found a community yet, I strongly encourage you to do
(14:20):
that. What's your experience with
Community Anne? I, you know, I tend to, I, I
agree with you. I think community is always
important. Even, you know, beginning with
the swinging, we had, you know, 2 couples that we became very
good friends and one, we've beento each other's kids weddings,
you know, it's that kind of friendship.
(14:42):
They're not, we don't play with them anymore, but we're just
solid, solid friends that you can talk about anything.
But as far as within the cuckolding dynamic, we were
fortunate when we've discovered cuckolding and I started writing
in the CM blog somewhat. There was a little community
there at one point and somebody there said, hey, you need to
(15:05):
check out Michael C's podcast. And that opened us up to kind of
a whole new community of people through that I've met 2
cuckoldresses that we ended up being on a podcast together and
one her and her cuck have since moved to Phoenix, AZ And so we
see them, you know, when we can so that.
(15:26):
And then over COVID, Michael C Keys and inklets started some
zoom kind of happy hour things where he just didn't invited
people that he knew, cuckle couples.
And through that, a smaller group of us who we felt like we
were on the same page. We splintered off and so felt
like we had this little tribe and our little tribe went to the
(15:49):
splash Mocha where we met Crystal and Bichard and just the
whole community just keeps growing.
And through that, like you can then reach out and, you know,
talk to one another about issuesor funny and share stories or
some of women we share lovers, you know, Hey, I'm, you know, I
(16:10):
have somebody who's going to be in and I just did this the other
day, someone I knew was going tobe in Atlanta.
So I put it out there in a groupof women just saying, hey, he's
there. If you guys, if anybody's in
Atlanta like I would happy to connect you, you know that sort
of thing, you know, referrals. Yes, sharing is caring in our
world. Only share the only share the
(16:32):
best with the best. Sometimes it's like you don't
want to if local, like I'm not so sure would be like sharing a
babysit. Yeah, like your favorite
babysitter, but it's not the same.
But there's that. And then also like building your
community of your your lovers, like they are also good
referrals. Like one of my friends, like
he's wasn't he was busy. We were in LA and he said you
(16:56):
know what, I am busy, but I think you really should meet,
you know this person and and I trust him and the same.
I would refer him to a couple and they are great people to
bounce ideas off of. So that's why it's important for
me to build friendships with people, lovers, couples because
(17:17):
it just normalizes this for us. I don't feel it weird or
anything because it's who we are, but it does normalizes.
It gives you people to talk to. You know the nice thing about
these, all these people in this community, you could talk to
them about anything, you know, doesn't matter what the subject
is. And that's what we love.
About no, that's right, super open minded.
(17:41):
And James is he's not in I'm thesocial butterfly of us.
But when he indicate, when he's with people in person, you know,
he engage, he's very, you know, chatty.
And it also makes it good for him because now he's got his
people he doesn't need. You know, he's not on Twitter or
tax or anything like that, but he has these solid foundations
(18:04):
with a lot of cuckolds that are.Yeah, Bichard, too, he doesn't
do social media, so he misses that whole aspect.
So being able to meet these people in person and he did the
same thing. He and his little tribe of dudes
that he met at Splash Mocha, they created a little group and
he's not even there very often, but still he goes in there.
It's great for creative ideas. I mean, they have, I mean,
(18:28):
that's good for all of us. People have different creative
ideas of things to do. Or you know, a new humiliation
technique or something like thator something that's just funny.
That's amusing and it's it's really great to have a group of
people that you can share that stuff with and they don't think
you're. Weird, no?
(18:49):
And I. Think it's totally normal.
And when we this whole swing, you think we avoided like
swinger parties, like nobody's business.
We'd go to a meet and greet, butlike the big parties that you
had to pay, we just never did it.
So we were hesitant to go to splash.
It's like, no, it's we don't. We can't imagine what it's going
to be like. And it was through our little
(19:11):
community. One couple went and they're
like, Oh my God, this was so much fun.
So she convinced others of us togo and that's when we met you.
And it's just like, thank goodness for our little group
because we we wouldn't have gonehad we not.
Yeah, that's where I met you and, and many of the same people
that you're, I know that you're referencing and it's where I met
(19:34):
Venus. I mean, so we've, we've had a
collaboration since then. I mean friendships that I'll
have, I hope that I have the rest of my life.
I mean solid friendships. And I'm, I'm so grateful for it.
I'm so incredibly grateful for it.
So I guess what we're trying to say is if you don't, if you're
not part of a community, somehowfind one.
(19:58):
It will enrich you tremendously and it'll give you.
Lots of laughs, creative ideas, support, friendship, all the
things that make life and this lifestyle worth living.
And just do it. I agree.
Agree. Well, since you told me about
(20:19):
your date this week in Crystal, why don't you talk about the
anticipation that you're feeling?
And oh man, and I was afraid of that.
And Speaking of community, because this is leads right into
community. You have something you're
looking forward to and you wouldnot have been introduced had it
not been for a sister. That is correct.
(20:41):
That is correct. And you know, I'm going to get
you back for this one time and somehow, yes, I am a little
angsty about it. So here's our deal.
We have been mired down in a family situation literally for
the last couple of years. It really interfered with
literally every bit of lifestyle.
So as we started to tiptoe back in, you know, what we've counted
(21:06):
on was our community, you know, stayed in touch with our friends
and, you know, kept talking to everybody.
We made a good friend up in Vancouver, BC.
I don't know how she does it. She's got magic dust because
they're, they're not exactly inundated with people of color
up there either. But she is like a magnet and she
(21:26):
has all kinds of associations. And so she had mentioned this
one person, my girlfriend in thelifestyle part of our community,
you know, introduced us personally and we started
talking. Well, we've been talking about
the last 7-8, nine months now. And so this weekend he's
actually coming to our city and it's a, it's a six hour drive.
(21:51):
So he's making a real effort andI'm excited to meet him.
He's, he's very down to earth, just really nice people.
And you say, well, how can you spend a whole weekend with
someone and you haven't really met them yet?
I mean, we haven't even been outfor a drink or anything.
Well, the reason is, is because he's a personal referral from
somebody that I trust. So I'm a little angsty about it
(22:12):
just because I've been out of the game for so long.
I mean, I, it's easier when you're constantly jumping in the
pool to get back in the pool, But when you sit out on the
sidelines for a couple of years,it's, it's cold getting back in
the water. And so that's kind of, that's
kind of how I see it, but I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be really good for us as acouple and just really good to,
(22:36):
you know, reintroduce myself to my own sexuality and I'm I'm
really looking forward to it. So I maybe I can be coached to
give some deep some deets on that next next time we do an
episode. But let's say hopefully you have
some. Hopefully you have some and it's
fantastic. I know, I know.
(22:57):
Yeah, we're we're I always referto us as sort of a Poly flavored
cut couple. We like relationships with
people. I don't do the one and done
thing at all. I don't find it interesting.
In fact, I wish I kind of did because it would be a lot easier
to find that than it is what we're looking for.
But you know, we are what we are.
(23:19):
So anyway, it's I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be fun to have time to actually get to know him because
we'll have enough physical time to actually get to know him.
And at the very, very least, I'mconvinced that we will have a
very good friendship. I hope that we're sexually
compatible. I'm optimistic about that.
(23:40):
My friend has referred him in that way.
She's she's known him in the biblical sense and she said that
that all works really good. So, you know, again, This is why
you need a community, because you can get referrals from
people that you trust and yeah, and it can lead you into
situations that you wouldn't in a million years find on your
(24:01):
own. Yeah.
Well, I think that, you know, we've already talked about how
we find and search and and all that and what it boils down to
the best are the referrals and the anticipation is real.
I mean, I get butterflies every time I'm actually seeing someone
this evening who he travels hereon a regular basis for work.
(24:26):
And, you know, he's probably here every other month and have
never been able to get together.And I wasn't sure.
But I did meet him for coffee one morning on his way in to
where he had to go. And I didn't have a lot of time
and conversation was so great. And but I didn't like it.
We didn't kiss. Like the place was really
crowded and the parking lot was packed and we were parked at
(24:48):
different sides and didn't have a lot of time.
So I haven't he hasn't had my test.
So I'm looking forward to seeinghim in a more relaxed setting
where there's no time constraints and and seeing where
it goes because he is here, he has a work commitment here.
Every. Yeah, I don't know that it's
once a month, but every two months or so.
(25:10):
So that'd. Be really?
That'd be really great. It sounds like you know enough
about him though that you know you're physically attracted to
him, and as long as the physicalthing all works, and that could
work into a really good situation.
Yeah, and I think it's like this, the intellectual pieces
there. The conversation was just.
But he's, he's really busy, so he doesn't do a lot of flirting
and chatting. So I, I might say something to
(25:35):
him. But, you know, some guys, that's
just not their thing, you know. And so, yeah, the good news is
as he's reached out, I'm really looking forward to it.
Like, so he's reached out two orthree times since the plans were
made. So that's good.
It's not total science. Well, I.
I'm wishing you luck sister. I hope that all works out.
(25:55):
Well, maybe I'll have something to share next time.
I don't know all. Right.
We'll, we'll, we'll hold the high watch for that.
Well, I think that's it for today.
Thank you again for for joining me.
We are going to take up some other vital topic next time, but
I appreciate you spending some time with me.
(26:17):
And I think this is an importanttopic.
Community is super important to figure.
Figuring out where your boundaries are with married
people and how much you're goingto get all up in people's
business is is a really good topic.
Those are all good things to talk over with your partner and
hopefully, you know, you can strategize a way to come to some
(26:38):
agreement on all of that. But do find a community.
It's just golden. Thanks everyone.
Bye everybody.
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