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July 24, 2025 • 73 mins

Join this LIT conversation with Venus and Victor: a bull from London that has more emotional intelligence and savvy about the male mindset that almost anyone I've talked to. Guys: follow his advice, and you will do better with the women who want you out there!

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Episode Transcript

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(00:07):
Hello, welcome to Beyond Monogamy with Crystal Welch, the
podcast where we break open the rules, rewrite the scripts, and
explore relationships on your terms.
Whether you're curious, questioning, or fully committed
to coloring outside the lines oftraditional love, you're in the
right place. I'm Crystal Welch, your
confidante and your guide to navigating the wild, wonderful

(00:29):
world of ethical non monogamy, no matter what form you choose.
Have questions? You're not alone.
I'm offering 30 minute coaching session to help you get clarity,
connection, or just a safe spaceto be real.
Details will be in the show notes, so don't miss that.
Now take a breath, open your mind and let's go beyond the
norm. This is beyond monogamy.

(00:53):
Hello everybody. Crystal Welch here with Beyond
Monogamy with Crystal Welch. I'm very excited.
Today I bumped into a new personvia Venus, my friend Venus.
This last week we had a live andthis is a gentleman.
He's going to be with us today as well as Venus, we uncovered a
topic that we all want to talk about, but Victor is from

(01:17):
London. He met Venus at a live event
that she was hosting in London and they became friends.
And then he pops onto her show and it was a great episode,
which I encourage everyone to listen to.
And then we had a live on her website last week and he was so
engaging. And so it's like I'm so thirsty

(01:38):
for what he is that I thought wehave to have more conversation
with this guy because he's like the opposite of what I, what
we're going to talk about today.And of course, everybody knows
Venus, my, my good friend Venus.So we're going to chop this up.
But here's the context. I, I'm a writer primarily.
I write far more than I podcast,but I, I wrote a story about a

(02:03):
month ago and I published on medium, but I cross posted this
to a site called black to white because many people don't belong
to medium. And I thought, you know, I
thought it was a message that I wanted to share.
And so I posted it on black to white and Oh my God, did I get
some poison in return. And so I'll, I'll give you just

(02:27):
a little quick upsert of the, ofthe article and then a, a
synopsis of some of the poison that I got back for it.
So I started out by saying, and I'm, you know, I clearly
identify myself as a lifestyle cuckoldrus.
I've been married for 10 years, I'm happily married, I have a
great husband and I'm forever insearch of, you know, the right

(02:52):
kind of lover. So that's, you know, my, my
readers know that about me. So I said, I'm not asking for
forever, just someone real curious, kind, emotionally
present. But if you're dating right now,
you already know how rare that is.
So many women that I know are asking for the same thing.
Where are the authentic, emotionally intelligent men in a

(03:14):
dating world full of ghosts, Dick pics, and 0 curiosity.
Genuine connection feels like a lost art.
So I was. I went on to describe that I'm
just looking for someone who's capable.
Not only capable of actual connection, but wanting that
same thing. It's because in my world view,
that's what makes it good for both people or all three people

(03:36):
or all six people. Victor, by the way, I forgot to
mention, is a long term 25 year fan of BDSM community.
And so he brings a lot of experience to the table.
And so I wanted to talk about this, but here's the feedback
that I got. The first guy that responded

(04:01):
mention this guy Kevin Samuels. Some of you may know him.
I had never heard of him before.So I looked him up and this is
what this is what the Internet had to say about Kevin Samuels.
He's no longer alive. He died in 2022, I think.
But he took the Internet by storm, and the majority of his
subscribers were women. The phrase the Kevin Samuels

(04:23):
effect, is the metaphor that also signaled the moment when
black men in America began to use their collective voices to
dismantle the biased ideologicalconstraints of mainstream media
and modern feminism. He was very much, from the
little bit that I read about him, the Andrew Tate of black

(04:44):
men. They wanted to take apart
feminist ideals and strong women.
And you know, you're in my worldand you're here to please me,
that sort of thing. And so this guy actually went so
far as to say that. He said, are you feminine, fit
and friendly? Are you open to trying things
and doing things that I want to try?

(05:06):
Are you willing to work with me with the lights on and off?
Can you wear what I want you to wear and take it off when I tell
you to? Can you become my fantasy?
So that struck a whole bunch of red flags with me, and I didn't
end up responding back to much of that, but I thought it would
be a great subject for a conversation, especially with an

(05:28):
emotionally intelligent man like, like Victor, because I
know Venus has come up against this many, many, many times too.
So welcome to both of you. So glad you're here.
So glad you're willing to talk about this difficult topic.
And we just cannot wait to get amale perspective on this issue
because most of the women I knowsay the same thing that I said

(05:52):
in that article. And you know, if you Venus just
pointed out when we were talkingbefore, if you try and bring
this up with some of these men, it just gets into an argument.
So, so say hi you guys and startwherever you want because we got
a lot to talk about here. Well, thank you.

(06:13):
Thank you very much, Crystal, for the introduction.
That's very nice of you. And it was a pleasure to get to
meet you on that live chat last week as well, you know, for
everybody. Yes, my name is Victor, I'm
London, England. If you haven't, you know, been
able to tell by the accent, you know it now.
And yeah, I am a long permer in terms of the kink and BDSM world

(06:41):
and the community, especially inLondon and and more broadly in
the United Kingdom. So that's a perspective I come
from. That's my grounding, my
training, so to speak, in terms of how I approach things and how
I interact with people and with women in particular.

(07:04):
So yeah, that's a little about me.
Hello everyone, I'm Venus back on the show.
Hi, I'm happy to be part of thisconversation, but yes, I am also
really looking forward to havingVictor share his voice on this
subject because this is a reallyimportant one.
So thanks for having us on Crystal.

(07:26):
Yeah, I thought it was importantour live conversation that we
participated with Victor on Venus's website had to do with
consent and some of the differences between the BDSM
world and the cuck world. And then it led me directly into
this. Like, consent is one thing, but

(07:46):
hatred is a whole different ballgame.
And so, you know, I want to, I want to talk with somebody who's
obviously as emotionally intelligent as as Victor is to
talk about how did we get here? What caused, how did you gain
the sensibility to talk and treat women that you come across

(08:08):
in your lifestyle in a way that's engaging, that's
pleasurable, that creates pleasure for everyone?
You don't seem to have a hatred in your in your whole being that
I can determine. And it's rare.
It's rare. There's a lot of angry men out
there and a lot of frustrated women.
And, and that probably goes bothways on both things.

(08:29):
So tell us, how do you think yougot here, Victor?
Well, it's something I actually think about a lot because there
are always moments in time, the fork in the road, a decision in
terms of do I do this or do I dothat?

(08:51):
And if I went back in time and Igo back to my late adolescence,
I didn't understand girls. I didn't really, I just didn't
get it. Now, there's a few reasons for
that, not just a laziness or a weaponized incompetence or

(09:14):
whatever. And I'll talk more about those
kind of things, you know, a little bit later.
But I just couldn't connect withgirls in the way that it
appeared to me at the time that my friends could, that other
male friends could. But what boys tend to do is

(09:37):
they'll find a way to connect with, you know, a young woman at
some point, at some stage. And, you know, that was me.
I managed to do that. That led to, you know, long term
relationship when I was younger.I finished university and, you

(09:58):
know, we got married. And in getting married, when I
look back now, I think to myself, wow, I got married to
someone when I didn't even know who I was.
So how on earth was I going to understand who they were?
Yeah, there was no way I could grasp that.
But I didn't know that at the time because it just felt like,
well, this is what you're meant to do.

(10:20):
This is, you know, way society, family, etcetera expects you to
do things. So, you know, marriage goes
along, you know, you think you'll you'll settle into it and
you think you'll be happy with it, etcetera.

(10:41):
But it just wasn't the case. It wasn't right.
And we eventually divorced. Difficult one, I will admit
that, but we were young. We were still in our 20s when
happened. The one thing I intrinsically
understood was it wasn't her fault.

(11:06):
I did not seek to blame her and say hey, it's about, you know,
it was the ex-wife, da da, da, etcetera and not take
responsibility for what I didn'tknow about myself.
So what I immediately did is I sought therapy and I sought
therapy As for not to absolve myself, but to check the line of

(11:36):
thinking. And the line of thinking was
actually, there's no blame that I have proportioned to my, you
know, but I believe I've got to understand who I am and I've got
to go on a journey to understandwho I am.
And the therapist kind of said, you seem to know what you need

(11:58):
to do, you just now need to do what you need to do.
So that was a signal to me to initiated things you're going to
say? Yes, I think that point right
there, the in the self-awarenessthat you had to have A to not

(12:18):
blame her and to look at yourself is a foundational
fundamental thing that I think alot of men have missed that it's
so much easier to point a fingerand blame, but to to be able to
question yourself deeply like that, like who am I?
You know, before I start choosing partners, who am I?

(12:41):
That's that's incredibly enlightened.
I it just is. And that you would actually seek
therapy to clarify that. I mean, that probably is the
biggest reason that you've been able to go on from there.
I I'm thinking because I there'svery few people, men or women

(13:03):
that have the self-awareness to actually start to question
themselves when something goes wrong.
So good for you. Bravo you.
Know what I remember that you know, your teenage years, your
adolescents, you know, mid late teens, you're you're trying to

(13:24):
establish yourself as an individual, separate to your
family, separate to, you know, others.
Initially your childhood, you'retrying to be like every other
child at school. And then, you know, adolescence
is seeking build upon, you know,elements of your childlike self
and adding on the layers so you can be an individual.

(13:47):
And I remember, you know, a level of insecurity driven by a
number of factors, but and how it would manifest itself in me.
So actually what I, I kind of now understand is that I, I'd

(14:09):
look in the mirror and I'd be like, I don't know if I like
this person, but how can you like someone you don't
understand or you don't know? And my sister older than me,
married, been married years, loved a husband, children, blah,
blah, blah, all of that kind of stuff.

(14:31):
Almost the complete opposite person to who I am, by the way,
you know, traditional in that regard.
But all of that she knows herself.
But she said something which wasa throwaway line that I've
always remembered. She said sometimes you look in
the mirror and you just don't like what you see.
You can understand that you may not know what you see in.

(14:56):
So if you find out, you can workout if you're happy or not.
Was was revelatory to me. Absolutely revelatory.
Made me just go right. So what is it I now need to do
in order to understand me? And the first thing was like, I

(15:18):
need to do all the things that Icouldn't do or felt like I was
constrained from doing, explore my sexuality.
That was it. That was, that was it.
This is the part and I just, I just went to I, I kind of like,
you know, decided no, I have to do this because if I don't do

(15:40):
this, I'm not going to discover who I am because I never want to
be in a position that I, I was in by so let's say getting into
another relationship and destroying it from within
because I don't know who I am. I'm insecure.

(16:03):
You play out, you just do all ofthat.
You blame the other person, you're flailing around, you're
doing all of that. I was like, I'm not having any
of that. If I'm in a dynamic with someone
or relationship with somebody, it will endure because I know
who I am and I give them the space to understand who they

(16:24):
are. So we know how we work with each
other. And that doesn't mean that it's
a singular relationship per SE. It could be me and other
multiple people or me a single and and someone who has other
multiple people. But what they're going to
understand when they engage withme is that I'm who I am, period.

(16:48):
And that should give them some comfort.
It was really interesting with regard to that is the last kind
of 25 years. You know how, for example, as I,
I kind of, you know, sort out the the community, met people

(17:11):
gone into the king community, knew that that was my that was
the place for me. Not so much.
Look, I love my sex. I've party swinging, all of
that, no two ways about it. Lovely.
But there isn't so much of A community within just the sex
space than there is within King and BDSM because it's more about

(17:35):
the holistic self. It's about the individual.
It's about community and understanding that people are
into things and they're beautiful, you know, and they're
real and you can get to know them and you can do all sorts of
crazy shit with them. Yeah, you know who they are.
You know who you are crazy shit about?

(17:57):
Fine, no problem. So, you know, that made for the
journey that I'm kind of still on because I'm, I'm looking for
some, I'm looking to, to understand myself every single
day. Just because I've been on this

(18:18):
journey doesn't stop, you know, it carries on like, oh, there's
something new. I've understood about myself
and, and, and what happened fromme understanding who I was.
It gave me bandwidth to understand other people and be

(18:41):
able to engage with women in such a way that I could hear
them, see them and understand all those individual women that
I engage with. And it gave me a completely
different picture. It made me understand that, you
know, through my teens and, and even into my 20s and, you know,

(19:02):
even when I was married, I couldnot, I didn't have the tools, I
didn't have the skill. I didn't have the wherewithal,
didn't have the understanding tobe able to properly engage as an
aware individual with another woman.

(19:23):
Wow it. Isn't really sad, it just tells
me just that wasn't my time and I had to do something about it,
which I have done. So now I have most of my

(19:44):
friendship circle are women and it just feels normal.
It doesn't feel weird. It doesn't feel unusual.
It doesn't feel strange. They engage in I know where I'm
coming from. I like to hear what they have to
say. I like to, you know, work with

(20:06):
them so, you know, in my professional life.
Women, especially in corporate businesses, big organisations,
and I've worked in a few, I've been senior in them and women
would talk to me afterwards and go you do not treat me in the

(20:27):
way that I thought you would treat me like.
You just take me as an individual, a person, and you
engage with me. Doesn't matter my age, whatever,
I'm young, you're not treating me like a little girl.
You're just like, no, you have the capability, you have this.
I see these aspects in you and also I'm never seeking to hit on

(20:51):
anyone. That's, you know, there's a
difference between you relax someone and you want to engage
with them, or you think someone's just sexy and you just
want a piece of that. Now you can have that within a

(21:12):
consensual understanding. But as we know, most of my
fellow men are not doing that within a consensual.
They're just doing that on the what can I get?
What can I take? You know, she wants something, I
know what I need and that's it. That's the transaction.
So it's decidedly different for me in that regard.

(21:34):
And and it means that I get invited to things, parties and
events that really introduce I shouldn't be invited to.
But the women all go. We won't victorize we we we'd
like. And it's hilarious I because it

(21:57):
could appear as if I almost do it to put myself in a position
to gain from it. But that's not where I'm coming
from. Where I'm coming from is that
this is just logical, sensible, natural and I get lots of

(22:18):
benefit from being made and fasting makes sense.
So much sense. I'm like 400 questions behind.
I don't even know how to back upthe bus.
But you said so much, so much inthat.

(22:40):
But what really stands out at the end of of your explaining
kind of your journey is this incredibly high level of
self-awareness that you were somewhere and you wanted to get
somewhere else, which would require you to evolve.

(23:01):
Evolve your thinking, evolve your skill, evolve your
understanding of yourself. You know, that drive to evolve,
I think is one of the key missing elements in many, many
men today. Venus, I you need you to weigh
in here, girl. I know I, I love this because

(23:26):
I'm listening and I'm picking upon so many things and I'm just
like, oh wow, OK, I'm it's all making sense here.
I agree. The self-awareness component
that you have, Victor, is unique, unfortunately unique.
I would like for that to not be unique, but it is unique.
But I also picked up on something else and this is what

(23:46):
I find. And for anybody listening to
this right now, men or women or whoever you are listening to
this right now, understand that this I think is a key component
is having female friendships that are platonic, respectful
and engaging is again, unique for a lot of guys out there,
which I but it goes back to whatyou said earlier, Victor, about

(24:09):
how you said, I'm not necessarily trying to like hit
on somebody. I'm just engaging with someone
and maybe women pick up on that safe space is like, OK, there's
no pressure here. Like I'm this is someone who
actually genuinely wants to has curiosity to learn about me and
trust me. And that's like amazing.

(24:29):
But the fact that you have female friendships, that some of
your best friends are women, that you said you enjoy
listening to what it is that they have to say, I think there
are a whole lot of dudes out there.
I've come across many of them inmy lifetime who don't have
female friendships. Don't listen to what women say.

(24:50):
I don't want to listen to what women have to say or contribute.
Curiosity. Don't have any curiosity.
Yeah. And so I find that to be unique
and I'm hoping that people pick up on that when they listen to
this, because I think that's where it comes from.
When you were on the show, Victor and you talked about how

(25:11):
getting to know yourself and having a curiosity about
yourself helped you was the IT was absolutely critical in you
having curiosity get to know thepeople you who you have
experiences with, and that beingwhat makes those experiences
special and unique. I feel like it's that curiosity
and I find it so interesting Crystal that you that that

(25:33):
article that you wrote had that word curiosity, death of
curiosity in it. And I think that maybe that's
where we're going wrong with these guys is that they don't
have the curiosity. And you'll see that in the
reactions to your post, those hateful comments, very ignorant
comments, they were a complete and total lack of curiosity,

(25:55):
didn't understand what it is that you were feeling and trying
to portray in that. There was none of that.
There was ignorance and it was just all about you are selfish,
you are asking too much. You must be a gold digger.
You must be like unrealistic, you must be ugly.
You must be all of these things.Like there was literally like

(26:16):
every single thing other than actually curious to understand
where you were coming from. Yeah, that's that.
Hence the the title of the article, because I think that's
really where I perceive this hasoriginated from, this death of
curiosity. Like it's, it's all about me.

(26:38):
I don't care who you are or whatyou want.
I'm going to get what I need outof this and then I'm going to
toss you away. And that's how a lot of men show
up in lifestyle now. And that's why that commenter
brought up the Kevin Samuel, theguy who brought up the Kevin,
because that's what he said it was.
He flipped it immediately to well, what would you want to do

(26:59):
for me? And would you be a willing to do
this for me? And I was like, where is this
coming from? Like.
Yeah, yeah. It's fuck, it's yeah, it's.
I don't know you. You just said so, so, so much in
that. Victor, I wish we could clone
you, but you've come by those skills.

(27:20):
Naturally, because you I don't want, I don't want to cut across
you. But I was at a social last night
with other kicksters and some woman seems to me, I wish we
could clone you. So I'm like, OK, so that's a
running scene kind of when someone, someone talks to me,
when a woman hears me, like, why?
Let's blame him. Can can you?

(27:42):
Which which? Share yourself with other men,
yeah. But it speaks to how few of my
fellow men. Yeah.
Are out there at the level they need to be.
Yeah. To engage with women.
Yeah. And it's not rocket science.

(28:04):
It's logical, it's simple. And yet their inability to be
able to do it speaks to a few things.
I think I said very early on, before you'd probably had your
400 questions, was that laziness, insecurity and

(28:29):
weaponized incompetence are three kind of key factors.
Now, men won't admit to being lazy, but my fellow man, fucking
lazy in a lot of ways. Emotionally lazy?
Yeah. Emotionally lazy, yeah.

(28:51):
Most men in relationships don't even realize that most of their
emotional burden is carried by the woman and it being carried
by, you know, then being carriedby, you know, the woman, she's
loading that on top of her own. So they don't even then get that

(29:12):
ability to be able to recognize that that is the case.
And and what then happens is that, you know, women in those
dynamics are then, you know, impress themselves into the
space and shape that is left forthem, especially he, you know,
they're mums, they've got kids and they've got the you know

(29:33):
what, I'm right. They they're all of that kind of
of happens. And most men are not conscious
of that as a process that is even happening.
I think, you know, COVID and lockdown drove poaching horses

(29:57):
through the the veil of of you know, this is how things are
meant to be. And it basically shone a light
for a lot of of women in particulars into now this
motherfucker's lazy and now the genuine proof.

(30:17):
And then with with so many people being online and so many
women being able to interact with other women online and so
many other women also turning around and saying this is the
situation, this is how it rolls.Thank you very much.
It's then made it difficult for a subsection of men, quite a
large subsection of men, but a subsection of men to to kind of,

(30:41):
you know, make that scenario unreal.
It was real. This is how women have felt.
It's now, you know, the proof isthere and you know, these men
couldn't hide it anymore. And that made things

(31:02):
tremendously difficult. So if you kind of look at
everything post COVID, you see the schism, that separation
because, you know, lockdown proved it to working
professionals, you know, a man and a woman, they have children,

(31:25):
etcetera. They may be, you know, roughly
equal in terms of their status within their jobs.
I can assure you the vast majority of women were
homeschooling those children, doing their job at the same
time, still cooking, etcetera. And what was the man fucking
doing and turning around and saying how tidy is or how much?

(31:45):
You don't know how much work I'mdoing.
I mean, no, sorry. That is weaponizing competition.
Yeah, done. Great laughs man is weaponizing
competition. Did you say a whole lot right
there? I'm compelled to ask you now we

(32:07):
kind of have the story of how you gained your self-awareness
and your growth through your ownefforts.
But I want to talk about, I wantyou to talk about the benefits
of living the way you do now with, with genuine authenticity

(32:29):
and the quality of the relationships that I'm sure that
you have with probably multiple,multiple people and the joy that
comes from that authenticity. Because I, I keep thinking that
if more men could recognize thatthey're leaving so much on the
table to sell themselves and women short, you know, they're

(32:53):
taking a, you know, getting laidas the be all end all win.
There's so much more available talk about that.
How, how, how has the joy been for you to recognize, you know,
that all the women, you know, want to clone you Now, I, I'm
sure you hear that and it's true.

(33:16):
You know, that's, that's got to be a huge payoff for you to
recognize that you are on the wrong track, on the right track
to, you know, to pursue your growth in the way that you have
and and the huge benefits that come from that.
That's the part I haven't found very many men even to willing to

(33:36):
acknowledge on any level that they're leaving all the goodies
on the table. Essentially it.
Would be difficult for, I think a lot of those type, those men
who think the way that you know,we're discussing to actually
believe what I'm saying. It would be difficult for them

(34:00):
to believe it. They think that I must be
working so hard. And because you remember,
laziness will be a default for anumber of those type of men that
I'd be working so hard and why? Why?
Why he he must be chasing it. And it, you know, it's like, and

(34:21):
for what? I don't want to be, you know,
some of them will be honest withthemselves internally and say, I
don't want to be friends with women.
I just want to fight them. You know, I just, I just need
penis in the vagina. I just need, you know, that I
just need my cock worshipped. Yeah.
That's when they have that mindset.
You're not going to bring them out with that.

(34:43):
So the men who are not wholly inthat mindset, then it's really
simple. I'm just being me and I'm who I
am. So a lot of it will be.
I get requests without even looking for.

(35:05):
I bet. Because women talk to other
women. And so when I go, yeah, I know
this, you'd want to meet him or you want to know who he is, you
know, etcetera. Or people would not because, you
know, simple things like somebody's new to the scene and
a woman maybe post divorce marriage, kids, da da da.

(35:31):
Because so many of my other girlfriends are in that
situation. You know, they've had lives or a
bit older, etcetera, but they have lives and so on.
I'll just turn around and say, hey, go and talk to one of you
know, go and talk to one of the other women so you can tap into
their knowledge and understanding and so you can get
yourself ready for what you wantto do.

(35:52):
Ask them a few questions into why you want to do this,
etcetera. What are you thinking?
You know, and so on. And then for them to be, to know
that, oh, he hasn't hit on me. He hasn't, he hasn't looked for
anything like that. I don't need to.
There's no reason in my how fantastic they look or how often

(36:15):
that they get their approaches. It would be like, hey, are you
doing well? Are you OK, Refer them to
people, et cetera. But I can assure you they'll be
the people who will come to me later on down the line goes,
I've seen you do this if you like to, because it's almost
that thing of why hasn't he? Well, I respect you.

(36:38):
So there's no reason for me to do that.
You know, if you want to come and have a conversation, maybe
we can have a conversation and see where that goes.
But there's none of this. There's no desperacy on my side
to do anything for me. That would be hard for a lot of

(36:59):
guys to believe. Apart from the guys who see me
out, see women engaging with me and then almost want to know,
how do you, how do you do that? You know, what kind of dark
magic are you using? I've noticed all these women,
they talk to you, they want to be around you, etcetera.
Those are the ones who you're like, and I just said, yeah, I

(37:21):
know they're my friends, you know, you know, or you know, we
play together, we party together, dah, dah, dah,
etcetera. And it was like, but you've done
that with those people and they still talk to you.
Those women still talk to you even though like, why wouldn't
they? Because I respect them as
individuals. No matter what kind of crazy
stuff we have done or we've donenothing, I will always respect

(37:45):
them as individuals because I can, because I understand me and
I respect myself. I can respect others.
A lot of people can't realise that they don't respect
themselves. They can't respect other people
because it's not inside them to be able to do that.
So the first thing is that any guy, if he really wants to

(38:09):
understand, you know, I feel like a human being who happens
to be a woman has to ask himself, do I understand who I
am? And can I articulate that not
only to myself but to someone else?
This is who I am. This is why I am, you know, she

(38:31):
say I'm a good person because I don't think I am a good person
by the standards that society suggest.
I just know who I, I can't. I like this.
I do this, I do that. I'm done.
I've engaged you as an individual.
I'll try and understand who you are.

(38:54):
And that's how I roll. There's no, no, no shortcut.
And also I like patience. Patience for me is wonderful
because you know, it's like, what's the rush here?
Pleasure is. I don't believe that you can
have pleasure through rushing anything.

(39:17):
Pleasure is something you luxuriate.
So in other words, in order to luxuriate it and have pleasure,
it has to be a lot of patience and diss.
I'm a disciplined individual. Yeah.
I'm gonna trust me with what I do.
That is so missing just even theunderstanding that it's engaging

(39:41):
with someone else. You should be able to luxuriate
in it. But when the man comes from the
point of view that I, I'm in a hurry, I'm just going to get it
wet and then I'm going to move on to the next thing and I don't
want to be bothered and I don't want any expectations of me and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That and it's an empty feeling.

(40:02):
That's why I'm I've been curiousfor the longest time like.
Are guys really satisfied with just that empty transactional,
you know, hit it and quit it kind of a behavior.
I mean, one of the things that Ipersonally find so compelling
about you, Victor, is yourself. Confidence is real.

(40:22):
I mean it. It oozes out of your pores.
That is like the sexiest thing alive.
Green flag. Green flag.
Flag, Green flag. Go jump on that guy before
somebody else does. Yeah, but some other guys will
hear that and they'll be like, oh, I need to show my confidence
more than yeah, you know, And it's like, no, that's not what

(40:43):
we're saying. Genuine self-confidence is
exactly as Victor has described it.
It's not bravado. It's not here's my big beautiful
Dick. It's none, none of that.
It's. Not pressure either.
It's not. Pressure, pressure.
It's not I'm going to do something over here to make you
do something for me. It's has nothing to do with any

(41:04):
of that. If you really listen to what he
said, you know, he started with questioning who he was until he
could really see who that was. And that opened a door for him
to be able then to see someone else, combined with the fact
that he had to have, he started with a genuine curiosity about

(41:27):
himself, which allowed him to begenuinely curious about other
people. That's where it all starts.
If you've got no curiosity, if you think you've got the world
all figured out and you know, women are just going to, you
know, throw their panties at youand life goes on, you're just
missing so much. You're missing so much.

(41:47):
And I love the way that you describe sort of the birth of
your own curiosity about yourself and what that's led to,
because clearly it's working foryou, dude, I'm just saying, OK?
Yes, that is quite true. But I also, there's also a

(42:09):
little bit of a difference, a lot of people who have longevity
within the Kingdom BDSM scene, US is different because sex
isn't the primary driver of things.
The kinks that people are into that they enjoy are.

(42:30):
That's not to say, you know, that we don't engage in it.
We sure do. I'm primal.
I know what I do on that basis, but a lot of things that I do
with people are inherently dangerous, essentially.
Of course. Yeah.

(42:52):
Both sides understand there is an element of danger there.
And in order to do those things,there has to be a trust fund.
Yeah. There's no, you know, there's
no. A friend of mine wrote something
today on set, and she said I think I should do the reverse of

(43:12):
the messages that I get in my inbox.
And she said, I'm just going to tell some guy, you know what?
Why don't I just, you know, comearound to yours, expect to have
sex with you bareback. You know, you don't know me from
Adam. I'll just bring a whole heap of

(43:33):
toys and knives and this that and the other.
We can play and we can see whereit goes.
And what's the level of of fantasy pushing that a lot of
men do? Because it is fantasy pushing.
This is my fantasy. So, you know, was it Kevin

(43:54):
Samuels? Was it the gentleman that you
mentioned Crystal? Right.
OK, here's The funny thing, Ryan, in listening to that I
went has all of that. He was basically, he will come
to me, 'cause somebody wishes togive it to me, 'cause there'll

(44:19):
be that element of trust sits there and they understand that I
know them to desire it. So you want to give to me, You
want to give all to me. You want to show me how devoted
you are. That comes from a trust fund.

(44:42):
So the engagement that I would have had with the individual
prior to give them a space for them to be themselves, to hear
them and to not take things further just because I need it.
But over time, they'll give me more because they want it.

(45:07):
And that way of thinking and understanding is almost a mind
blowing situation for a lot of men because they'd be like, they
won't understand how you got there.
How did you get all of that? But it feels like a lot of work

(45:28):
to get there. Work is the work that they need
to do on themselves. Right.
That's the biggest challenge. And if they can't clear that
obstacle, then everything else isn't available to them.
It's just not available to them.And there's no, you know, we can
make, we can do it this way or we can do it that way.

(45:48):
No, because insecurity, lazinessand another end of weaponizing
competence will mean that they are always looking for a
shortcut. Yeah, always, always looking
shortcut and in hey, listen, if that's what they wanted, that's

(46:11):
what they want to do. But they should be prepared by
not doing this work for women toreject what they have to offer
because actually they don't haveanything.
And hence the anger meter just goes up and up and up and up.

(46:33):
Absolutely. So if if that program of
transactional selfishness hasn'tbeen working for them, you know,
too many, I think have not askedthose hard questions that like
what who am I and what have I? You know, what am I really
asking of someone else? What am I really asking of

(46:54):
myself? And those questions just don't
get asked. And so that's the thing that I'm
most concerns me is that I don'tknow what what the magic wand of
enlightenment will be to solve this.
I don't. I don't think there's anyone

(47:14):
because I think there are multiple things.
You know, it's like, what do they say?
You know, I, I didn't know this,but actually somebody pointed
out to me and a good friend of mine pointed it out to me.
And then the ring was holy shit,this is true.
A lot of men look for validationfrom other men.

(47:39):
That's what they do. I, I don't, I, I, I don't
understand what, why do they need this validation?
It's like they go from little boy to man boy, and because

(47:59):
they're man boys, they still need that validation of of other
boys that are around them. When you go from little boy to
adolescent to adult male to man,you don't require validation

(48:20):
from other men. It's just not necessary.
And the challenge we kind of have is getting younger men
because older ones, you could almost write them off.
Right. Yeah, you write them off.
They're not. They're not interested.
They've been going so long, right?

(48:41):
You know that quite frankly deadby the time I change.
So therefore, let me just ride. Let me just ride the bike I'm
riding at the moment. Right.
Well, younger men who? Who are searching for

(49:02):
themselves, being angry at youngwomen and women in general
because they don't want to look at themselves.
They don't hold up a mirror and go woof.
It needs to understand that individual was I don't, I don't

(49:26):
understand who he is that it's II'll understand that
adolescents, you know, let's say15 to 20.
It's a very difficult time for most boys to be able to separate
themselves from other boys because they literally go from

(49:47):
that period and they're discovering girls still wedded
to be a group of boys and still need validation.
And they and then it's all of that.
I just, I'm maybe I'm look, I'm really fortunate.
I have to say I'm really fortunate.
I just don't require that from other men.

(50:10):
It's not necessary. I'll engage with other guys.
Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I have good other male
friends, but I don't need any validation.
Yeah, it's almost as if they've never considered the fact that
they're look seeking other mail.No, they're not validation.
And, and they don't, and they'renot recognizing that they've

(50:32):
never validated themselves. You know, there's a lack of
recognition of that. So if they don't even know what
the question is, I don't know how you know.
And and somehow that's that mustbe a flaw in parenting.
Somehow it's going to come back to somehow we did, didn't do
enough of something as parents and our sons.
Are socialization. It's not just parents.

(50:54):
It's not just parents because ifyou're a parent of daughters,
you know, they, whatever you're trying to do, they still have to
go to school. They still have to interact with
society. And society puts an enormous
amount of pressure on boys and girls to present a certain way.

(51:19):
You know, social media amplifiesin a way that wasn't the case
for us as children because it just wasn't available to, you
know, certainly for me. But there's this thing of, you
know, boys behave this way and girls behave that way.
Girls, you know, have to presentthemselves as nice and etcetera

(51:42):
and you're not, you know you. It's a whole different path and
route. Most men, unless they have
daughters, don't even realize there is a distinct path that
society wants many women to take.
Girls and how they're socializedso young as into what to accept

(52:07):
and how to behave. And boys are just allowed to be
feral ass motherfuckers. Yeah, you know, right, Yeah.
And if you as a man can't even recognize there's just two
distinct parts and it's there, it's it's it like once you see
it, you can't Unsee it. But a lot of men can't see it.

(52:31):
That's. For a whole host of reasons.
That's the truth. But once you see, you can't
Unsee it. So I'm sure there'll be there'll
be men who may be listening to this and they'll just turn
around and go I'm doing men wrong or I'm saying like bad
things, etcetera. But it's what I'm observing and
it's I'm observing it because it's revealed to me like, wow,

(52:58):
lots of different women are telling me the same thing.
This is not a cabal, right? This is not, I mean, basically,
you know, sitting in a gender. They just want adult men who can
respect to men because they knowhow to respect themselves.
Hey. Mostly don't really.

(53:20):
So they don't respect themselves.
So even when they are disrespecting women, they're
disrespecting themselves anyway.Absolutely, but they don't
understand that. I'll share a story that I've
shared before, I think on other podcasts because it was one of
those golden moments in time that I will never forget.
I had a very close friend who was a psychiatrist and he had
been in family practice for manyyears.

(53:42):
And I and then this conversationwas 25 years ago.
It wasn't yesterday. I went to him and I said, I want
you to tell me if I'm jaded or convoluted in some way.
I said if I thought about the women that I know that are self

(54:02):
aware and they're engaging and they know themselves and they
know where they're going, you know, I can name 10 right off
the bat. Just boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom right now. And I said, if I took the same
conversation to think about how many men I could claim those
same things for, I'd be super hard pressed to come up with
two. And, and, and so I'm asking you

(54:26):
as a professional in the field, am I jaded?
Have I become jaded and embittered or whatever?
Or is there some validity to this?
And he said, no, you're absolutely right.
He said over the last several decades, many decades, men have
failed to evolve and women have surpassed them in almost every

(54:49):
sense. And especially in the human
interaction field where women know how to connect, they know
how to, you know, empathize, they know how to and, and
they're interested in doing those things.
That whole thing men have missed, they've missed.
And so it hasn't helped me because the problem still exists

(55:10):
out there. But but that was from a licensed
professional, you know, therapist saying that no, this
is this is a real thing that's happening in our society.
And I, and I agree with you verymuch between COVID and social
media and you know, people online all the time, I think
it's gotten much, much worse because hate spreads like crazy.
And it has. And, and I wish that human

(55:36):
evolution could spread a little quicker than hate because
there's so much, as I mentioned before, I think so much that the
average man is leaving on the table that could be joyful for
him, could be satisfying for himin ways that he can't imagine.
Now he stays in this little locked up box of thinking the

(55:56):
way that he's thinking. Venus, we need to hear from you,
girl. You've been too quiet over
there. Taking it all in, I just I've
really enjoyed listening to whatyou have to say, Victor and also
you, Crystal. I think it's, we need more male
voices in this sphere. I think that's the key to things

(56:19):
actually changing and, and we just don't have enough of them.
So having the opportunity for for everyone to be able to
listen to you, Victor, today is like super important.
And I just hope that we can havemore of that.
And I, I really wish more men would take the lead on this and
realize like, yes, like this needs to change.

(56:41):
Like we really do need to, I need to share this
enlightenment, this wisdom, thisinspiration that I've received.
And I need to share that with everybody else for the reasons
of it's good for you, but it's good for everyone as well.
And I, I want to just say that because I come from the
cuckolding world, I want to touch on a little bit about what

(57:03):
this means for cuckolding and the trend, the, the shift that
I've noticed in the last year ortwo of the real vitriol and
hatred and just a shitty behavior that I've noticed out
there. But, and that's reflected on
that blog post on that black to white forum and what how that

(57:27):
affects us is. So I want to just talk a little
bit about that there. First, I will say there are lots
of people in the cuckolding lifestyle who are totally OK and
absolutely down for just treating a bull as a Dick, as a

(57:48):
Dick for sex and that, and that's it.
And there's lots of bulls out there who just want to be
treated that way. Not all of the certainly not all
of them, but there are some thatthat's, that's the game they
want to play and that's the rolethey want to play and that's it.
And I and so there's that there's people where that's
consensual. Everybody's down for that.

(58:09):
That's the the way that they're going to play.
They are not looking for anything outside of that net.
No, it's very it's the shallow, superficial thing.
We don't need any depth. We're good.
OK. And then, and I will say that
that's a safety net for a lot ofpeople for it's a safety net for
a lot of falls because they maybe don't want to catch

(58:31):
feelings and they feel like if it's kept at a very shallow
level of this is just sex and it's a Dick and whatever.
It's just fun and games and that's all it is.
And but it's more a safety net for a lot of couples and first
of all for women, because it's easier for them to
compartmentalize things when they're trying to have sex
outside of their marriage, when they're struggling with the idea

(58:52):
of non monogamy, it's easier forthem to compartmentalize things.
If it is just sex, it is nothingemotional.
There's no connection, there's no sparks.
It is literally just Dick and pussy going to make my husband's
fantasy come true. OK.
It's also hugely a safety net for Cox because their number one

(59:13):
fear of Cox is that she's going to fall in love with and never
want to be married to him again.And so that for them it's like,
OK, this is just a guy who's a Dick.
And that's why you get people, women and Cox referring to black
men as a BBC and that's it. A BBC like you're like, what?
Is this person a human being? Or they just a Dick?

(59:36):
Like what the fuck? But that's where this attitude
comes from. And on that black to white
message form, which by the way, first came across that message
form like a decade ago, and I had such a fucking foul
experience with it in the beginning.
I was like, oh, this place is a bit toxic.
Like I don't like this. Try to delete my profile.

(59:58):
They don't let you delete. Your profile in there, I did
too. I was like, you can't.
Get out. You can't get out.
I know you can't get out. Ten years later, they still
don't let you delete your profile, no.
They they will. Yeah, I think they wouldn't
exist exist if they allow peopleto delete.
But right, I was like, what is with that?
But anyway, I had a shitty experience with them a decade

(01:00:21):
ago and I didn't want to ever goback.
I have, I have a profile on there, although I'm never on
there. And then so, yeah, when I went
to go and read the comments on your post, I thought, wow, it's
gone from shitty to worse. Yeah, yeah.
What what about that? That website is, is not unique
unfortunately, is that it's a just simply a wank space.

(01:00:44):
There's very little actual conversation going on there.
And if there is, it's just Dick stroking and ego stroking and
that's about it. And it's all dudes.
There's like hardly any women onthere.
And you'll notice that not one of those comments on your post
were from women. Not one even wants to fucking

(01:01:07):
chime in. Not one's even wanting to
participate in the conversationson that place.
And women are are. And I guarantee there's zero
women who are admittance. In fact one of the worst people
who commented on your post, Crystal was a guy that has A tag
as staff and he was the one of the most ignorant one of the.

(01:01:30):
Posters. Absolutely the worst who
repeatedly posted shit on in response to what you wrote and I
was horrified by that. I thought this motherfucker is
admin of this site. This just goes to show how
shitty this fucking place is honestly.
So. It's true.

(01:01:52):
I've seen it seep into this lifestyle where you have people
who really refuse to be able to want to learn about any issues
that are going on. And this kind of knee jerk
reaction when a woman says, hey,puts it out there, You see this
anywhere, not just in cuckolding.
Hey guys, fellas, we'd really like you to level up with us.

(01:02:15):
Right we. Could have a lot of fun here
like level up, you know like this could be amazing for you.
Could you like we are inviting you into this space of fucking
achievement and inspiration and instead of of a decent fucking
reaction to that, like, oh fuck yes, how you know you get these

(01:02:38):
knee jerk reactions of fuck you bitch, you must be an ugly cunt
and you selfish fucking married bitch.
How dare you ask more of men outthere and I we're and then US
ladies like astounded. Like what the actual fuck?
Where did I say anything about any of that?
About it's, it's crazy. It's crazy.

(01:02:58):
And so, so that's what, you know, the resolution of that
article is why so many women give up.
And by give up, I mean they leave the lifestyle.
They stop posting anything anywhere because.
And that's why you don't see them on those.
Sites And that's because, you know, because it's just not
worth it. It's not worth the stress and
the vitriol. You know, that will come your

(01:03:20):
way, which is really sad becauseI think there's a lot that men
and women could learn from each other if there was a willingness
somewhere. There doesn't seem to be much of
a willingness on the on the maleside.
And that's sad. I think that's sad.
You know, Venus and I have talked endlessly about, I coined
a phrase a while back that cuckold men are a more evolved

(01:03:43):
man. You know, people like you,
Victor, who were dominance in the BDSM world and cuckolds that
we've known intimate intimately are a more evolved species.
Cuckold men are more evolved than the average man out there
because they are highly self aware.

(01:04:04):
They've got to be deeply in touch with who they are and what
they, you know, what they need and their willingness to be
vulnerable and put that out there and the willingness to let
a woman come in and bring some other man into the thing.
And you know, I mean, cucks are amazing.
They're amazing and there's so much validation for that.

(01:04:27):
But in in that case too, that that's another classification of
men who have done the work on themselves, who have, you know,
have taken a deep dive into who they are and what makes them
tick. And not just what sexually
fulfills them, but what, what provides the most intimate, you
know, and that's my husband. And I've talked about that a

(01:04:49):
lot. The most intimate conversation
and the most intimate relationship that either one of
us have ever experienced over a lifetime have come through that
cup door because it, it forces us to talk about deep, real
things all the time. And and so there's a space for

(01:05:09):
men to to find themselves somewhere, whether you see
yourself as dominant, whether whatever your interests are, you
know, what remains the same. I think if you're going to have
satisfying relationships and notjust transactions, you know, is
to is to take on the question that Victor posed in the very

(01:05:30):
beginning. Who are you?
Who are you really? And, and, and will you can't by
taking the deep dive into yourself, being curious about
who you are first, Maybe you'll be willing then to be curious
about the women that might come through your life.

(01:05:51):
So I could talk to you guys for like 40 more hours and get out
all 400 questions. But I don't think we have that
time. But I am, I am seriously
grateful to you both for spending some time on this
topic. It's not necessarily the easiest
topic to talk about. I'll be eternally grateful to

(01:06:12):
you, Victor you. You have now become the gold
standard and so I'll probably besending people your way to.
You'll never have to farm for women ever again because we'll
be sending them over there. Said you really know what a real
man acts like. Don't talk to Victor.
Anyway, I appreciate you guys. Appreciate you.

(01:06:35):
I mean, thank you very much Crystal for, for that.
And, you know, initially meetingyou in the Q&A and, and then you
wanting to talk about it. And, and like I said, this for
me is it's a, it's just constantly there for me as a, a
discussion because all of my female friends, Oh my God, they

(01:06:59):
all talk about it, even the oneswho when they were young, like
they're in their 20s, you know, and I just say, look, write it
for now before you get angry when you're in your 50s.
I've said, you know, understand,you know, if you can catch
something good, understand what it is and why it is what it is.

(01:07:22):
And I think, you know, will it change?
Well, I think in the respective circles we sit, we at least know
that there are people there. But there is one thing you said
and and I and I think there's animportant thing here, the catch

(01:07:43):
feelings aspect. A lot of let's say bulls will
have or some cuts will have about, you know, in relation to
their wives or partners that youknow that like if it if it were
me, any other way around. There is no issue for me with

(01:08:04):
regard to a partner of mine having, you know, another person
in their life that they have sexwith, not a man.
And that wouldn't be no issue because what I recognize is that
that's who they are gross. Their space.

(01:08:24):
They they require to be themselves, you know, if you
want them to be, you know, a Firefly.
Anyway, fireflies burn bright. That's freely.
They don't buy. They don't burn bright when you
try and bottle it. Burn bright only for me.
No, they become dull. They're not they, they don't,
they can't be themselves. So if some man recognizes that

(01:08:49):
he, he, if he can recognize thathe gets more because he will, he
will give her more. She becomes more and she gives
him more. And that kind of petrol, you
know, energy shift happens between, you know, between
people. But if you have a fear and you

(01:09:11):
have a weakness and you have an insecurity, then you have some
bullying and you still want to do this because you can't help
themselves. Still to do this all these
things that I haven't dealt with, you have to narrow it down
and make it very, very narrow sothat you accomplish your task of

(01:09:33):
of your fantasy pushing. She doesn't get the full benefit
of what she could be in the third party is just a rented it
or we've chosen you you're the penis for today.
Thank you very much. You know, anyone who can who

(01:09:56):
comes to me like that. No.
And I've had a couple of dynamics where I've been with
couples that had a long term, you know, and where I've had it
from a BDSM perspective where I've owned them because that is
consensually where we have been.Yeah.
And I and other ones where I am,I know and a compliment to them.

(01:10:21):
And it's understanding that and and knowing how you work with
those individuals which becomes important.
And you can start. Yes.
And feeling and pleasure and they're there, who they are,
because you've got to work out if there's a three, you know, if
it's a three, what's the dynamicbetween them?
What's the dynamic between the three of you?

(01:10:43):
What's the dynamic between you and the woman?
And, and work all of that out. So hey, what do I know?
Well, actually, you know everything.
And so we're going to just leavethat as it is.
And, and I will say too, that all of that that you just said
gets back to first of all, you knowing yourself that you can

(01:11:04):
allow it to just be, you know, afill in thing, if that's what it
is, or a deep connection to a woman or a couple, if that's
what it is. It still gets back to you
knowing yourself deeply and knowing what you're capable of
and allowing people to be themselves.
So anyway, I I just can't thank you enough for being here,

(01:11:25):
carving out some time. Victor's on the other side of
the planet. So I don't know.
This couldn't maybe wasn't the most convenient time in the
world for him, but I appreciate you and Venus.
I know you're getting ready to move.
So I appreciate you guys. I think it was a great
conversation. I hope it gets a lot of airplay
because I it just needs to it just needs to it's an important
conversation and I'll probably come up with some other topics

(01:11:49):
and I'll be pinging you guys again.
So, you know, be expecting it. Thank you very much.
I really appreciate that. Thanks.
Yeah. Thanks for being here.
And that's it for today. I will put Victor's contact
information if he wishes me to, in the show notes and and
Venus's too, which you you probably have, but I'll put it

(01:12:10):
in there in case you don't. And until next time, it's
Crystal Welch signing it out. We want to thank you for taking
a deep dive with us on Beyond Monogamy with Crystal Welch.

(01:12:31):
If today's episode sparked something in you, I'd love to
hear about it. Your feedback, your comments,
and your questions may help us develop the topics that you are
most interested in. Don't forget to check the show
notes for your guests, contact information and how you can book
a 30 minute chat with me. You deserve support on your
journey no matter where you are on the map of relationships.

(01:12:53):
Please don't forget to subscribe, like and share this
podcast. If you found the information
helpful, come back next time as we challenge the status quo one
honest, juicy conversation at a time.
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