May 27, 2024 ⢠50 mins
A leading voice in the cuckoldling lifestyle, Venus returns for an honest, raw, conversation about her search for a cuck, and dating in the cuckold lifestyle.
Enhance your journey with personalized guidance! đŽ Crystal Clarity â Navigating Ethical Non-Monogamy in the 21st Century đŽ â Book your one-on-one session today!â https://cal.com/crystalwelch FOLLOW: â Crystal on Twitterâ : @CrystalWelch99 https://x.com/CrystalWelch99 VenusTwitter: @CuckoldressV https://x.com/CuckoldressVwww.venusconnections.comwww.venuscuckoldress.com#cuckolding #swinging @nonmonogamy #enm #ethicalnonmonogamy #flr #malechastity
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Non monogamy is not weird. You see it on these dating
profiles as it is. It's not weird.
It's all you have to say and listen up and write this down.
All you have to say is. Hey everybody, I just wanted to
(00:23):
give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a
one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal.
It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore
ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've
been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton.
And I hope to share some of thatwisdom with you in the hopes
(00:45):
that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the
show notes and I hope to see youthere.
Hello everybody. This is Crystal Welch here and I
am super excited to bring you one of my dear friends and
famous cuckoldras podcaster, Venus.
(01:06):
She is one of my favorite people.
She's been in the in the space for a long time.
You can find her at venuscuckoldras.com.
And also she also is the host ofVenus.
Connections. I know I get the right word
(01:27):
Venus connections. Anyway, if you're not sure what
that is, that is to my knowledge, the only.
It's not a dating site. It's a It's a meeting portal for
women and men who are interestedin the cuckold dynamic.
And she has a rigorous screeningprocess, which I'm gonna have
her tell you about here in a minute.
(01:49):
But I just wanted to welcome her.
She's she is very, very unique in this space.
And and I'm just thrilled to be able to talk with her today.
So I'm gonna pick her brain about a bunch of stuff.
So Venus say hey, hi. Everybody.
Oh my goodness. Thank you Crystal for having me
on your show. This is gonna be awesome.
I always love our conversations together.
Yup. It's just, they turned out to be
(02:10):
full of laughs and full of passion and full of bullshit and
all kinds of stuff. So it's, it's always fun.
It's always fun. So I wanted to do this because I
know for sure you have a massivefollowing.
And I'm sure that people are curious about so many things
about you because you're always interviewing other people.
(02:33):
You know, today's the day that we're gonna sort of peel back
the the paper on you and find out what, what makes you tick
besides cuckoldry and how how you got into the space that
you're in. So I wanna start with talking
about how did you launch this idea and what is the origin of
(02:58):
it for you personally? Yeah, so it it's all started.
Let's see about in 2015, I had met this guy on Tinder and I
didn't know what the word cuck or cuckold was.
I was not new to non monogamy because I had been venturing as
(03:20):
a Unicorn solo woman in the swinger's lifestyle.
So I was familiar with non monogamy as far as like open
relationships, being open on both sides and stuff like that.
But I did not know what cuckold was at all.
Never heard of it. I had no clue.
And then this guy, he started toexplain it to me and I didn't
(03:42):
understand the one sided open part.
I was like what? Like I've never known a guy to
be OK with not having the same privilege.
Like for me, up until that point, I'd only known this like
egalitarian kind of system in relationships where like it had
to be equal. You have to meet in the middle
and it always has to stay fair for everyone to be happy.
(04:06):
So when he brought this up to methat he wanted me to sleep with
other guys and he did not want to sleep with other women, I was
like, hold up. What?
Like, Are you sure? Like, I don't understand that,
but OK, whatever. If that if that's what makes you
happy, whatever. But then I over the years like
or actually not even didn't eventake that long, but over the
(04:27):
next several months at least, I began to really appreciate that
seemingly unfairness part of it,like where he I get to sleep
with other guys and he just likes it that way and didn't
want to sleep with anyone else. And he was really into the
sexual denial part, even though he never said those words,
(04:48):
sexual denial. He said, I love it if you make
me wait. And so I was like, OK, I don't
understand that either, but OK. And I was just really fascinated
by it all because like, at the time, I really did feel that I
found what fit me. I found the kind of relationship
(05:10):
that really fit who I was. And I never thought that I would
be able to find that because I didn't know these kind of guys
existed. So when I found out that this
was a thing, I was just like, this sounds too good to be true.
Like what's the catch? You know, like this is this
sounds like amazing. And then I got I was kind of
(05:30):
upset because I thought, well, if I didn't know about this,
there's probably a lot of other women that don't know about it
either. And I wasn't exactly vanilla.
So the fact that I didn't even know about this, I was like, I
really do want to share this with other women and let them
know like, Hey, this actually isa thing.
(05:51):
There's actual guys out there that would love to be in a
relationship with you and not want to sleep with other women.
And they love the fact that you sleep with other men.
In fact, they don't just love it, they celebrate it.
Like he, my first cuck boyfriend, literally was like,
sluts are the best thing in the whole world.
And I don't know how guys don't love sluts because like he's
(06:11):
like sluts are fucking amazing and the hottest thing ever.
And it was just he he just really made me feel like that
was such an like incredible quality for me to have.
And I was like, I never hear this from many guys before.
Like this is amazing. So it wasn't even just like a
I'll share you or I'll let you sleep with other guys.
It was just like, Oh fucking please tell me all about this
(06:34):
guy that you just fucked like. And I was like, what are, who
are these guys like? Who are you?
Yeah. Like what?
So I really wanted to share thatwith other women.
And that was the, that was when I first started writing in what
was it 2016, I started writing Ablog.
(06:54):
And then it was the January of 2020 that I started podcasting,
which was kind of just like a spur of the moment decision to
do that. And that's been, that's what
I've been doing ever since that and the matchmaking service.
Well, that's, that's an amazing evolution.
And when you think of it, there's a couple things that
(07:17):
come to mind for me, 'cause thatthat's very much like my, my
circumstances were a little bit different.
But you know, that was one of the primary thoughts that I had
too. Like, why wouldn't every woman
on earth wanna cuck man? Yeah, I mean cake and eat it too
much. But the other thing is that I
(07:40):
think it's a giant misconceptionthat and you just described it
very, very well, that somehow he's being deprived.
Well, the truth is there are a certain class of men that are
hard wired this way and they don't feel deprived at all.
You know, it is sort of the the space of compersion where
they're getting just as much joyout of that sexual connection
(08:03):
that you have that that you are.And so that's not like, even
though they're not out doing other women, they're
participating in your experiencewith you and and that's where
they get a lot of joy. So that's one of the sort of
secret parts of cuckolding. I think that too, that people
don't talk about enough. You know, it's always, well, why
(08:26):
does she always get what she wants and he doesn't get
anything. And it's not like that.
It's really not like that. Yeah, and that was the part that
really fascinated me too, because I was astounded by the
reaction that he was having fromjust me sleeping with other
guys. It wasn't even just like a oh,
OK, you know, tell me about it later.
But like, I've never seen a guy so turned on like that in my
(08:50):
life, like ever. And I was like, what is this?
This game is fun. Like I was feeding off of the
energy from him because he was just so.
And I knew that if I sent him a picture of me with like a big
Dick in my mouth, like he was just gonna lose his fucking
mind, like. Yeah, you know that that
(09:13):
descriptive word fun doesn't even quite capture it, right?
It doesn't quite capture it, butit's it's in that realm
somewhere. So.
So where are you now relationship wise?
And I would, I think everybody in the world assumes that you
must have 10,000 cucks at all times.
Do you have a primary relationship?
(09:35):
You know what? What has been your experience
subsequent to that? Now that you've discovered it?
How has that, how has that morphed, and what's your
experience been with actually trying to seek out a cuck
partner? Yeah, it's been shit.
So I really honestly in the beginning I thought OK, after my
(09:56):
first cuck boyfriend that that relationship was long distance.
It didn't last. And then after that, my partner
who I had, we were together for a little while and he just got
really sick and passed away. And after that I took a long
break. Obviously, that was pretty
awful. And then I really did think that
(10:17):
I was just gonna, you know, findsomeone amazing again and be
able to have that relationship again and, and it not be super
challenging because let's face it, there's like a lot of single
guys out there that really want this kind of relationship.
I really didn't think it would be that difficult.
And I really did think that my journey in within the cuckolding
(10:41):
realm was gonna be about telling, you know, sharing my
story about a relationship. I, I didn't realize and I, I
know like, it's looking back, it's kind of weird, but like,
really, that wasn't it. It was gonna be me sharing my
story about the challenges around dating.
(11:04):
And I didn't really anticipate that.
I really, I didn't think that that was gonna be my thing, that
it was gonna that I was gonna betalking about.
OK, why is dating in this, this sphere so dysfunctional?
And why is there so much of A disconnect happening?
And so that's really been my journey up until now is to, to,
(11:28):
to, to really explore that, to talk about it and to do
something about it, not just complain about it.
But I did not anticipate that. I did not expect that.
I thought that it would be easier for me to find somebody
long term because like I said, there's lots of guys out there.
(11:50):
There's very few single women who are looking for a cock
boyfriend. Like, first of all, they don't
know that it exists. Second of all, if they do come
across guys who are like, oh, I wanna be your cock.
It's usually he's using her for wank material and that doesn't
go anywhere. And so it's it's it's really,
(12:13):
really challenging because like there's a lot of guys out there.
I've come across a ton of guys, but unfortunately I have years
and years of people who've just wasted my time and that's been
so frustrating. I can't imagine.
So for some context here, for our listeners, for those of you
(12:38):
who haven't seen Vienna, she's this drop dead gorgeous human
female. She's smart, she's funny, she's
intelligent, she's self aware, she's informed, and she has a
broad broadview. And I'm in this space too.
And I know that, you know, and Idon't know what technically what
(12:59):
the numbers are, but I'm gonna guess that there's probably 1000
men who want women like her who are willing to cuckold them for
every one woman who's willing to.
So there's something not right about this entire math.
There's something that's totallynot right about it.
(13:20):
So from your perspective and andyou and I can share some ideas
on this, but from your perspective, what are you
encountering? There's all these prospects that
are out there, you know, guys that say or maybe give lip
service to the fact that they would like to have a
relationship with you and they wanna be cucks and blah, blah,
(13:41):
blah. What is your experience in the
field? Yeah, so I would, I would.
I went through in the very beginning, I didn't understand
why there were so many guys who say that they really want those
kind of relationship, act like they really want this kind of
relationship. And then when it comes to
actually meeting in person or, you know, making it a reality,
(14:05):
then they chicken out, they get cold feet and they are just
poof, gone. And this was happening to me.
I mean, there's a certain degreeof that in regular dating as it
is, but in cuckold dating, this is really epidemic because this
is a chronic issue that keeps happening over and over again.
A lot of these guys are acting in these bad behavior ways and
(14:29):
they don't even realize that they're all doing it.
And so it was a matter of me, this happening to me over and
over and over again, where I'd be like, really invest my time
into somebody, you know, and, and then poof, they're gone.
And then months or even a year later, they would come back and
they'll always come back. And they would have some stupid
(14:49):
excuse and they would be like, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah.
And then it would happen again. And, and when this happened like
so many times, I'm like, what the fuck?
You can't help but like, wonder,is something wrong with me?
Like what is going on here? And it took me fucking years to
understand that there's so many guys out there who carry this
(15:12):
really debilitating level of shame around being interested in
this kind of relationship or this kind of fantasy that they
are able to like, shelve that shame for the first little bit
of building a relationship. But at some point it becomes too
much and it's just easy to just fucking drop off and flake out
and ghost. And so this happens over and
(15:35):
over and over again. And you know how hard that is as
a woman to like not get that explanation ever and just be
treated like that. Like, I can't even count how
many times I have been ghosted. I like literally he's just not
showing up at the airport. Like, like this is this is so
(15:56):
bad that you come to just kind of expect it.
And it wasn't until I started talking to other single women
who, like I said, they're, they barely exist.
They're, and they were saying the same fucking thing.
And I was like, Oh no, this is really a problem.
And so I began to really understand that there's this
(16:16):
really fucking shitty aspect to,to cuckolding where guys carry
all of this shame and guilt and it's like self loathing
actually, and how detrimental that is to them, but how
absolutely crushing it is to relationships or potential
relationships or building a relationship.
(16:38):
I saw, Oh my God, having to dealwith that almost been the worst
fucking thing because then I wasjust like, why are you all
acting like this? Like, can you fucking stop it?
And then there'll be guys who they are simply out there to
waste your time. This is just they want someone
to talk to cuckolding about so they can wank off and.
(17:00):
Yeah, fulfill a fantasy. Fulfill a fantasy.
And there's so many married guysout there who are pretending to
be single cocks who just want to, you know, string you along
and wank off a bunch while they,you know, fantasize, talk with
you. Oh, like all that stuff and it's
just infuriating. It's so, it's so frustrating.
(17:21):
It's no wonder there's so few single women who were out there
looking for this because they'reconstantly getting ghosted,
They're constantly getting flicked on, they're constantly
getting bombarded with fantasy vomit like in the first fucking
conversations. Like it's just, it's too much
like and then you've got the allthe other problems of there's so
(17:45):
much fear around discretion withguys.
I mean, there are with women too, but especially with men.
Men are, they fear somebody finding out so badly that they,
it's almost like an unrealistic fear in some ways, because they
are just so scared and so heavily closeted about this that
(18:06):
there's no way they're ever going to show you a picture of
who they are. They're they're never gonna be
honest about their name or wherethey're from or how old they are
or like basic shit. So you know how hard it is to
get to know somebody when they won't even tell you the most
basic information or if they do,it's not real.
Or if they send you a picture, it's not actually them.
(18:28):
Like you know how hard it is to start a relationship when it
starts with distrust and dishonesty.
It's like it doesn't fucking work.
So there's all of these issues around dating in this lifestyle
that are just they're, they makeit so difficult.
But I don't think a lot of the men out there realize that this
is part of the reason why there's so few women out there
(18:52):
who are looking, because you have to be really committed to
wanting this kind of relationship if you're gonna
stick around in this dating arena and be treated like that
repeatedly. Well, this conversation makes my
head wanna explode in about 50 different directions because I'm
(19:13):
on the other side. You know, I'm I'm advertised for
a cock and I married him. And so I didn't go through this
the cut dating experience. I just got lucky.
I just rolled the dice and got lucky once.
But I have heard from hundreds, hundreds of men that are this
(19:34):
wanting, needing. How could I find a woman like
you? And it just blows my mind and
defies my imagination that somebody like you, who would be
a gem in any configuration, it puts up with that kind of
behavior. I mean, it's like the men of the
(19:55):
world still, in spite of being in the 21st century, they, they
look at women like they're your kink dispensers.
That's what women exist for, to,to somehow give you wank
material or, you know, get you excited so you can go home and
fuck your wife or something likethis.
But it it's infuriating to me. To hear what you've been
(20:19):
through, when I know that I hearthe same thing so many men want
and so many men are not able to actually come to the table.
It's infuriating. So if I had anything to say to
the cuckwannabe men out there, it is this.
Listen to this and take it to heart.
(20:42):
You'll never have this and there's no woman out there,
certainly not anybody in the position that Venus is in to
fulfill your, your, your king fantasies.
That's not her job. That's not any woman's job.
That's no woman's job. Your job is to do your own
personal growth enough so that you can come to the table, have
(21:04):
the courage to talk to the womenthat you know and say, you know,
here's something about me. And, you know, I would just be
thrilled if you would consider, you know, having other lovers.
And I don't need this. I don't have that same need.
But I'd be thrilled if you would.
I mean, grow the fuck up. Yeah.
(21:26):
And that's the thing about this is it does take work, but that's
not sexy, and that's not part ofthe fantasy for a lot of guys.
They're like, wait, what? And like, no, this is just about
what turns me on. In the moment and as soon as he
comes, then it's like Venus, whoyou know and, and it's you know
how insulting, how insulting is that?
(21:47):
We're human beings out here. We don't exist for your fantasy
fulfillment. That's not our role.
We're happy to participate with you, whatever you bring to the
table. We can probably match you.
But it's not our job to give youother reasons to go yank your
Dick. It's not our job.
It's just not our job. Yeah, and what for?
(22:11):
For the for the guys, the singleguys who are listening to this
right now. For the Mary Cucks.
Good for you. You're fucking lucky.
And you know you've won the lottery and treat her amazing
and treat her right. But for the single guys out
there who are like, Oh my God, Ireally want to find a woman
who's into this. Why can't I find more women into
this? Why is this so difficult?
Let me just tell you. OK?
(22:32):
So listen up. I hope you got your pen and
paper right now because I'm gonna tell you some shit.
This is important for the guys to know because I have guys who
come to me and they're like, well, why?
Why aren't there more women? Why?
What do you like, you should go out and find more women for your
matchmaking service. And I'm just like, man, I have
literally been trying to reach women for how many years is it
(22:55):
now? Almost?
It feels like almost a decade. I have been screaming it out to
the fucking world. I have put my face out there.
I have literally done everythingI can to reach women and tell
them about how amazing this is. Same with you, Crystal.
How we go out that we tell people we are doing this to
reach women, to let them know, OK, that's never going to be
(23:17):
enough for us to just do that. It is unfortunately never ever,
ever gonna be enough for me to just tell women how great and
amazing this is. Let's face it, cuckolding is an
invisible relationship for the most part.
It is because if as a woman if Igo on Tinder right now and I'm
scrolling through profiles, I never see a profile that
(23:40):
mentions cuckolding or A1 sided open relationship ever.
Like ever. Even on field.
It's like one of the kinky, morekinkier apps.
It is very, very rare, very, very uncommon for Cox to
actually put it on there. And so, but on Tinder and Bumble
(24:02):
and all the regular fucking vanilla apps, at least 30% of
them mention non monogamy of some form, way shape or form.
So so swinging, open, relate, Poly, whatever, then that's not
taboo. That is not abnormal.
Everybody knows that. There's lots of people out there
practicing non monogamy. The guys have no problem putting
(24:23):
that in there. Oh yeah, I'm Polly, I'm in an
open relationship, whatever. They have no problem putting
that on there because there's noshame to that, right?
For the most part, there's really not.
And so women see that non monogamy exists, but they don't
see that there is this one kind that's very unique where it's
open on one side only. They don't even know about that.
(24:46):
So for them, it always means nonmonogamy equals him sleeping
with other women. And there's lots of US women who
are like, fuck that shit. I don't want to share my
partner. And so they don't even know that
this is an option. And so men are OK with putting
non monogamy on their profile, but they're not OK with
admitting that they want something that's open on one
(25:08):
side only. And so it's invisible to so many
women out there. It's no wonder why people women
are like, well, I'm not signing up for something I I don't even
know it exists. So.
Well, and even the ones that hear about it don't believe it
exactly. Because that is.
Yeah, of course they are. Because they've never been an
(25:28):
experience where a man could be unselfish like that, where he
could provide safety and security in the relationship for
her and also let her go find adventure.
Which my my favorite psychologist, Esther Perel would
say that's what all human women and men need.
We need safety and we need adventure.
(25:48):
And sometimes you can't get thatwith just one person.
Absolutely. And you know, that's, that's the
thing. This is a big important
conversation. And you've touched on so many
important points that I just don't know how we can emphasize
them enough. So how would you advise the
women in the world that might listen to this to have an open
(26:13):
mind about the possibilities? What are some of the joys that
you have gotten out of it? I know for myself, I was in a
monogamous marriage before and he went off with a rock band and
I was a single parent after that.
And I thought, you know, that's not what I signed up with for
(26:34):
marriage. I wanted a partner and a lover
and a companion. And I didn't have any of those
things. So I decided way back then, way,
way when my son was still little, I'm not a candidate for
marital monogamy ever again. I it's not enough.
Now, had we been able to engage in, you know, a higher level
(26:57):
conversation like this, saying, hey, you're gonna tour with this
band, I'm gonna have a lover, you know, I would have stayed
married to him. Who wants to get divorced?
Nobody, nobody wants to get divorced.
But we weren't able to have that.
AI didn't know it existed. And I never thought that there
would ever be a man that would accept that thing.
So. So that's out there.
(27:18):
But now that I'm in it, I can't,I can't express the depth of the
intimacy, the joy, the connection that we have found
because this is an intense personal growth program for both
of us. It has caused both of us to go
deeper and wider with ourselves and with each other.
(27:40):
And so I end up, you know, at this sort of late stage of the
game with the relationship that's everything I always
dreamed of, but I never believedactually existed.
It it happened right here. So from your perspective, Venus,
how would you advise other womento find an open heart and an
(28:03):
open mind and how how might theyencourage that discussion with a
prospective? Partner Well, I think women
talking to other women is a big part of understanding this kind
of relationship or the potentialfor that kind of next level
love, trust and connection that comes with this kind of
(28:24):
relationship. But I really do feel like this
begins with men. This really does the this does
this begins with men. So for the guys who are married,
this is about and they're you know, there's so many guys out
there listening right now who are afraid to bring this up to
their partner. Don't know how and if they will
(28:46):
probably won't get it right and.Yeah, or they've brought it up
before and they were shut down immediately, so they went back
in their cave and they never ventured to get ever talk about
it again. Yeah.
So I there is for that. I feel like there's the the way
that you bring this up to a woman is not fantasy focused.
This needs to be about the potential benefits to a
(29:07):
relationship. When you frame it like that and
you approach it like that for guys, that's that's a big part
of it. And then connecting her with
other women. Oh, hey, you should listen to
this podcast or you should read this blog or you should join the
Slut sisters group or you know, whatever to be able to connect
women, to be able to learn from others.
(29:27):
And that's where that key component comes from.
But for for the single guys, this is the thing this is and I
went, I, I talked a little bit about this before.
I mean, this is for the single guys listening right now.
This is another thing that you need to write down on your pen
and paper. You guys need to start putting
it out there that this is actually what you're looking
(29:49):
for. And I know the knee jerk
reaction from guys listening right now is like, fuck no,
there's no way I'm putting it out there to the world that this
is what I'm into. Why?
Because I carry a lot of shame and I'm very scared of anyone
finding out. That's not what I'm talking
about. I'm talking about introducing
this as a form of one sided opennon monogamy and going from
(30:10):
starting from that step one and building it out from there.
And and like I mentioned before,non monogamy is not weird.
You see it on these dating profiles as it is.
It's not weird. It's all you have to say and
listen up and write this down. All you have to say is I am
looking for A1 sided open relationship where you get to
(30:35):
have the extra fun and we both really love it that way.
That is all you need to put on there.
And I promise you, you will get the lottery.
I promise you, you will. Those are the magic magic words.
Well, you're at least going to get curiosity from a woman
because that's those words are not weird.
(30:56):
They're not kinky strange words that she has no idea they are
not like there's taboo or whatever.
It's she's good and you can evenwrite on your profile.
Ask me more I'd love to tell youmore about it and then have that
conversation. Do not bring up the word kink
cuckolding. I don't know any of that shit.
(31:17):
Like don't use that language, just simply frame it around A1
sided open relationship and thatyou both love it that way,
meaning you both get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Stress the part that you really don't want the same kind of
privilege that she has but that this is really about her.
And if you frame it like that, Imean that is a great place to
(31:38):
start. Not every woman is going to even
want to be curious about non monogamy.
I get it. There's a a lot of women out
there have this love affair withmonogamy that is, you know,
deeply ingrained since birth. And I get that.
But for the ladies who this might be something that they
could at least even learn about,then that would be a good
approach to do it. But until guys put that out
(32:01):
there on their profiles, we willnever see women signing up for
this shit. We will never see it.
And in on the same scale why women are not out there watching
cock porn. They're not.
And they're not out there online.
They're not on Twitter. They're not single.
Women are just not out there looking into cuckolding like men
(32:22):
are. Men are do they are researching
this shit like it's a sport and the women simply are not.
So you, in order for women to get on board, you really do need
to sell this to them. I wanna say this, sell it to
them in a way that is female centered, female focused and all
about creating something together and not just about you
(32:46):
saying to her, oh, I really wantto see you fuck some other
dudes. Like that's so hot.
She'd be like, what? So until that happens, we're
never gonna have women signing up for this on mass like we see
men wanting to do that. So there's some key, really key
factors that none of those factors that I just mentioned
(33:08):
involve doing the work. That is something that you need
to just fucking do. And let me tell you, the guys
who I've come across over the years who have gone to therapy
and done the work and not just Idon't see it work because
there's something wrong with you.
I mean, learning how to analyze your interior, yourself, your
behaviors, all of that sort of stuff.
And, and, and then learning the communication skills that you
(33:32):
fucking need in order to be ableto explore this with your
partner. They you, when I come across
those guys, I'm like, I know already just by talking to them,
I'm like, you've done the work. I can tell.
So there is something that is not sexy, not fun, kind of
scary. Probably not not fun sounding at
(33:52):
all that you have to actually do.
So I I hope you get your hand out of your pants for long
enough to understand that this is so much more than just the
porn video you've been obsessingover for 15 years.
Man, I'll tell you what, she just gave you the golden ticket
to everything. For those of you who are
(34:14):
interested and have been frustrated because you can't
find a woman she gave you she gave you the whole ball of wax
right there. I don't I can't improve upon it.
She she told you exactly exactlybecause if you understood the
(34:34):
benefits that last beyond. I mean, I think a lot of these
men who are obsessing over trying to find a woman who will
do this. As you just so eloquently spoke
about having your hand in your pants.
If you get your hand out of yourpants and try and understand
what the dynamic, the deeper things that are available to
(34:54):
you. Let's take shame.
She mentioned that shame. I've watched my husband who came
from a deeply Catholic background.
He actually went spent a couple years in the seminary, Catholic
seminary. So how much guilt do you think
he had? And he and his wife were his
other wife was, they were swingers.
And he came to understand that they go to these parties and he
(35:18):
would just watch her because he,he wasn't so inclined, but he
was deeply ashamed of that. So when he and I got together,
we, you know, I just said, hey, let's, let's excavate that.
Let's figure out what that's about, you know, because I
wanted him to be free of it. I wanted him to be free of it.
And so we played with it and we talked about it and, and I
(35:40):
supported him. And that's where that we both
got into erotic humiliation because it makes sort of makes
fun of the stuff that you're embarrassed about.
And all of a sudden it's not embarrassing anymore.
It's funny. And, and it just releases.
He has been released from his sexual shame.
(36:02):
And boy, if you don't think that's a load off your mind, if
that's what you're struggling with, there's a way out for you,
but the only way out is straightthrough and it's yours to do.
Don't expect that it's some woman's job to excavate that
from you. But if you get into a genuine
partnership and you're willing to look at your own stuff and
(36:23):
where you're embarrassed and where you're ashamed of
something and, and make a relationship, like a real
relationship with a real woman and talk about these things
openly, you have an excellent chance.
You have an excellent chance to be free for the first time in
your life. Possibly.
I mean, I know my husband says the same thing that, that I've
said he never, ever imagined that he would find himself in a
(36:47):
position where he's so, you know, I am such a cheater and
he's so free at the same time. He's the one that feels free
'cause he's free in his mind. Yeah, he's free in his mind.
He, he, he just totally accepts.He is who he is.
And we both have fun with it and, and there's just an awful
(37:07):
lot of benefits. So I hope if you did not take
meticulous notes, I hope you go back and listen again and write
it down and keep reading it because she gave you the actual
process by which you can find everything that you've ever
wanted. But it's up to you.
Nobody's it's nobody's job to hand you this dynamic.
(37:32):
And if you and and and porn is not, I said porn is also not
gonna give it to you. Porn will give you the salacious
details, but that's not where the party really is.
That's not where the freedom really is.
That's not where the release of guilt and shame really is.
It's in these deeper relationships with an actual
woman. Yeah.
Well, one of the things that guys are most terrified about
(37:54):
that I've heard from them about is that if they do kind of lay
with the woman emotionally naked, like emotionally naked
with her will. And she know.
And she, you know, he shares allof these details about his
deepest darkest fantasies, desires, insecurities, fears,
(38:14):
all of these things that she will no longer respect him.
And and so he doesn't share these things.
He simply just wanks off to the fantasy about it and everything
like that. That's not doing the work.
You do this work together where you both lay emotionally naked.
The way you talked about excavating his mind, his
(38:35):
thoughts, his everything, his desires, that's the work.
When you lay there emotionally naked and you are just
completely vulnerable with each other.
Just for the guys listening to that.
I know that sounds scary becauselike I said, like you're worried
that she's just not going to respect you anymore.
Let me tell you, if you are witha woman who loves you, loves
(38:58):
you, loves all of you, then she is not going to disrespect you
because you have bared your fucking soul like that.
If anything, as women, we understand the relevance of
that, we the importance of that,the courage behind that, and we
(39:19):
respect you even more after that, because that's how I felt
like when he, you know, had the courage to really tell, share
his deepest, darkest desires with me and he he felt safe
knowing that I wasn't going to judge him.
I just, I looked at this man andI was like, that is amazing what
(39:40):
you just did for us. Like you, you just shared that
like, and it made me feel like Icould share whatever I, you
know, wanted with this person. You feel this deep level of
trust and safety with this person.
And that's like, think about it guys for one second.
OK, Just lean into that fear of,Oh no, she's not going to
respect me anymore. I'm just going to be
(40:01):
disrespected. And you know, she's not going to
look at me like I'm a real man. And you know, fuck that garbage.
Shove that shit out of your headand just fucking lean into it.
Lean into it, bear you fucking soul, I mean, and be in, you
know, vulnerable with your partner.
Communicate these things together and don't shy away from
(40:21):
it and look, lean into it and look what's on the other side.
Look what's on the other side. It's like this fucking
incredible. That's what I call next Gen.
next level love, trust and connection with a person.
And that's why this kind of relationship is really different
in my mind and my experience. You really do go to a different
level. You absolutely do.
(40:43):
And, and the benefits are on both sides.
The benefits are on both sides. Think about, you know, for the
women that might be listening, how would you value a man that
could actually be vulnerable andcould actually be really honest
with who he is? You know, men are not trained to
deal with their emotions, not inWestern civilizations, they're
(41:03):
not. They're supposed to be rough and
tough and not show emotion and, you know, be stoic all the time
and be the strong one and blah blah blah blah blah.
And you and you raise generationafter generation after
generation of men who don't knowhow to feel and don't know how
to express and don't know how to, you know how to be who they
are. That's the work for all of us as
(41:25):
a society, as a culture that we have to unravel.
And I'm not suggesting that we're all gonna turn out to be
consensually non monogamous in some way or the other.
But I'll tell you what a growingpercentage is for a lot of
reasons that we've talked about.But you can't get there unless
you're willing to actually be vulnerable and do the work and
(41:45):
do the work. It is work and it's ongoing
work. It's not like you just do it one
time and bang, you know the world falls at your lap.
But also, it's absolutely never gonna happen.
If you're expecting some woman, some enlightened woman like
Venus, to come and lay this on you and make it easy for you, it
isn't gonna happen that way. Not now, not ever.
(42:05):
So if you want somebody like her, do the work.
She's worth it. Yeah, and even, you know, just
I'm this is crazy. Like, I still get ghosted on the
regular. I rarely do, you know, reinvest
my time on anyone anymore when it comes to dating because,
like, this has been such a shitty experience for me.
(42:28):
But you know, I do have a matchmaking service.
I do meet single guys. I have met some of them in
person and some of them have been really awesome.
But at the end of the day, let'sface it, like it's really
difficult to find love as it is.You're really you're but you
know, you're, you're it's so hard.
You know, you're you're fucking,you're just waiting to feel that
kind of the sparks and you're not.
(42:50):
And you're like a damn there's there's only like friend vibes
happening and like how shitty isthat?
But that's the way it is. You know, you can line
everything up on paper as far asyour preferences and your
fantasies and everything like that, but you need to meet in
person and you know, like there could be nothing.
Well, that's, you know, that's awhole other issue.
And I think that's, you know, that's also endemic in our
(43:12):
society. You know, you, you, you see it
written everywhere. You know, the frustrations that
men have with women, women have with men and they're not getting
together. And, you know, the young men in
our culture are just there's a couple of lost generations out
there. They don't wanna date.
They don't ever wanna marry. They don't ever wanna have kids.
(43:34):
They don't, you know, they're not willing to even even
consider all of that. And so, so it isn't easy.
It isn't easy even if you were just a plain old straight up
monogamous person. None of it is easy.
And this adds an element of complexity that makes it even
harder. I'm just saying that it's worth
(43:55):
it. That's all I can say is it's
worth it. And to not give up and not let
people like Venus get cynical because you act shitty.
Don't do it. You know, it drives good women
out of the lifestyle permanently.
And then there's gonna be even less for you to wink to.
(44:17):
Yeah. So get your hand out of your
pants, play this podcast over again, take notes, and then
start working on yourself because it's just worth it.
It's worth it. It is worth it.
And when you do find that personwho you've approached them in a
respectful way and you have built a relationship before
(44:38):
incorporating all of these, you know, sexual desires and stuff,
you really, you know, got the framework for this relationship
set and built and done before you jump into things together.
You've done the work on yourselfWhen you have done all of that,
Oh my God, the fucking joy of a life that you can create
(44:59):
together. The fantasies that you guys can
both like fulfill together are, you know, the Sky's the limit
and that's where all of the fun is.
But it doesn't just fucking fallin your lap.
Like you need to actually do this purposely in a way that is
respectful, respects people's time and and be genuine.
(45:20):
Be authentic, be yourself. Because you cannot start a
relationship with mistrust and dishonesty.
Be you're going to have to. Yeah, I know there's a lot of
women out there who prey on single cocks who just want to
extort you or blackmail you or whatever.
There's some shady ass shit going on out there.
And I get it. Like there's a lot.
But at some point, at some point, you're going to have to
(45:43):
just trust your intuition and gofor it and be who you are and,
you know, put it out there because like I said, you can't
start a relationship with dishonesty.
And that's the reason why in my matchmaking service, it is
private. So nobody, there's no scrolling
through profiles or anything like that.
But you do have to tell me your fucking real name, your address,
(46:07):
everything about you. I need to know all of it.
And if you lie, you get kicked out of the program.
And that's super uncomfortable for lots of people who've been
used to, you know, holding down privacy as, like, you know, the
most important thing. I get it.
But I'm gonna have to push you out of your comfort zone if
you're gonna date. Well, that's, that's a service
(46:27):
even bigger than you can imaginethat just the fact that somebody
would go through that screening process and, and confront
themselves to that extent. But ask yourself a question,
what am I expecting here if I can't go to a legitimate, you
know, matchmaking service and feel like I can be honest at the
(46:50):
most basic level there. Who am I kidding?
I'm not looking for a relationship.
You're fooling yourself. You're just fooling yourself.
So wake up and I want you to. Why don't you tell us where they
can find you Venus, and where they can find your matchmaking
service so that so that they canjump on and see if they have
(47:12):
what it takes to get through theinterview process.
Well, that's the thing, it is a bit of a, it's been a great
filter in filtering out the guyswho really and the women who
shouldn't be, who should not be dating.
Because you have to, you know, buy a membership.
You have to fill out a detailed questionnaire.
You have to do a three-week course.
You have to have an interview with me and show up for it.
(47:34):
And if you don't show up, you get kicked out.
If there's actually, like I say,basic fucking rules, but that,
you know, you be honest, that you show up, that you put in
effort and if you don't, you getkicked out of the program.
That's as simple as it is. But it's been a great filter for
that. So all of the blades, the dates
are blind dates and they're all on Zoom.
(47:56):
And, and like, yeah, there's, there's a ton of guys looking
for it. There's not many women.
However, in there's two programs.
There's the cuckolding program, lots of dudes, not a lot of
women. There's the female lead, which
is no cuck holding. It's a smaller program because
it's still pretty new, but the gender ratio is totally totally
the opposite. There's tons of women and not
(48:17):
very many men, so it is not fascinating.
I'm like, when it comes to men having their sexual fantasy
fulfilled, this is really important and they'll sign up
for Venus Connections cuckoldingprogram.
But when it comes to putting a woman first in a relationship,
they're not as likely to sign upfor for that.
So this is not surprising. Somehow, somehow this is not
(48:38):
surprising. Well, you think, you know, think
about it. We've got thousands of years of
history of very strict religiousexpectations and, and moral
leanings that have said that you, you must get married and
never have another lover ever inyour life.
(48:59):
And, and our society is in the process.
I think what it feels like to me, we're in the process of
starting to break that apart, but we're also up against
thousands of years of history. So this isn't gonna happen
overnight. It's gonna happen person by
person, step by step, you know, And it takes you've, you've got
to take a step in the direction of what you actually want if you
(49:20):
ever hope to get there. Yeah, the website for Venus
Connections is venusconnections.com.
Super simple. And then for my website and my
podcast and my booking private chats with me and stuff like
that is venuscuckolddress.com. So everything else is on there.
And we will have all of that information in the show notes so
(49:41):
that you could, if, if you didn't copy it down, you can go
back and get it. But please listen to this again
and take notes. If you didn't the first time,
'cause I know you suckers did not take notes and you need to
'cause she gave you the keys to the Kingdom, you better take
notes on it. So thank you so much, Venus.
It was just wonderful as always talking to you.
(50:02):
And you're just a fount of knowledge and wisdom, and I
cannot tolerate the fact that you might get cynical about this
because you are a joy and will be a gem for somebody if we can
just filter through the riff raff enough to find them.
Thank you. There's somebody out there for
you. I'm sure of it.
(50:23):
I'm just sure of it. Thank you so much, Crystal.
Thanks for having me on the show.
All right, talk to you another time.
Non monogamy is not weird. You see it on these dating
profiles as it is. It's not weird.
It's all you have to say and listen up and write this down.
All you have to say is. Hey everybody, I just wanted to
(00:23):
give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a
one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal.
It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore
ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've
been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton.
And I hope to share some of thatwisdom with you in the hopes
(00:45):
that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the
show notes and I hope to see youthere.
Hello everybody. This is Crystal Welch here and I
am super excited to bring you one of my dear friends and
famous cuckoldras podcaster, Venus.
(01:06):
She is one of my favorite people.
She's been in the in the space for a long time.
You can find her at venuscuckoldras.com.
And also she also is the host ofVenus.
Connections. I know I get the right word
(01:27):
Venus connections. Anyway, if you're not sure what
that is, that is to my knowledge, the only.
It's not a dating site. It's a It's a meeting portal for
women and men who are interestedin the cuckold dynamic.
And she has a rigorous screeningprocess, which I'm gonna have
her tell you about here in a minute.
(01:49):
But I just wanted to welcome her.
She's she is very, very unique in this space.
And and I'm just thrilled to be able to talk with her today.
So I'm gonna pick her brain about a bunch of stuff.
So Venus say hey, hi. Everybody.
Oh my goodness. Thank you Crystal for having me
on your show. This is gonna be awesome.
I always love our conversations together.
Yup. It's just, they turned out to be
(02:10):
full of laughs and full of passion and full of bullshit and
all kinds of stuff. So it's, it's always fun.
It's always fun. So I wanted to do this because I
know for sure you have a massivefollowing.
And I'm sure that people are curious about so many things
about you because you're always interviewing other people.
(02:33):
You know, today's the day that we're gonna sort of peel back
the the paper on you and find out what, what makes you tick
besides cuckoldry and how how you got into the space that
you're in. So I wanna start with talking
about how did you launch this idea and what is the origin of
(02:58):
it for you personally? Yeah, so it it's all started.
Let's see about in 2015, I had met this guy on Tinder and I
didn't know what the word cuck or cuckold was.
I was not new to non monogamy because I had been venturing as
(03:20):
a Unicorn solo woman in the swinger's lifestyle.
So I was familiar with non monogamy as far as like open
relationships, being open on both sides and stuff like that.
But I did not know what cuckold was at all.
Never heard of it. I had no clue.
And then this guy, he started toexplain it to me and I didn't
(03:42):
understand the one sided open part.
I was like what? Like I've never known a guy to
be OK with not having the same privilege.
Like for me, up until that point, I'd only known this like
egalitarian kind of system in relationships where like it had
to be equal. You have to meet in the middle
and it always has to stay fair for everyone to be happy.
(04:06):
So when he brought this up to methat he wanted me to sleep with
other guys and he did not want to sleep with other women, I was
like, hold up. What?
Like, Are you sure? Like, I don't understand that,
but OK, whatever. If that if that's what makes you
happy, whatever. But then I over the years like
or actually not even didn't eventake that long, but over the
(04:27):
next several months at least, I began to really appreciate that
seemingly unfairness part of it,like where he I get to sleep
with other guys and he just likes it that way and didn't
want to sleep with anyone else. And he was really into the
sexual denial part, even though he never said those words,
(04:48):
sexual denial. He said, I love it if you make
me wait. And so I was like, OK, I don't
understand that either, but OK. And I was just really fascinated
by it all because like, at the time, I really did feel that I
found what fit me. I found the kind of relationship
(05:10):
that really fit who I was. And I never thought that I would
be able to find that because I didn't know these kind of guys
existed. So when I found out that this
was a thing, I was just like, this sounds too good to be true.
Like what's the catch? You know, like this is this
sounds like amazing. And then I got I was kind of
(05:30):
upset because I thought, well, if I didn't know about this,
there's probably a lot of other women that don't know about it
either. And I wasn't exactly vanilla.
So the fact that I didn't even know about this, I was like, I
really do want to share this with other women and let them
know like, Hey, this actually isa thing.
(05:51):
There's actual guys out there that would love to be in a
relationship with you and not want to sleep with other women.
And they love the fact that you sleep with other men.
In fact, they don't just love it, they celebrate it.
Like he, my first cuck boyfriend, literally was like,
sluts are the best thing in the whole world.
And I don't know how guys don't love sluts because like he's
(06:11):
like sluts are fucking amazing and the hottest thing ever.
And it was just he he just really made me feel like that
was such an like incredible quality for me to have.
And I was like, I never hear this from many guys before.
Like this is amazing. So it wasn't even just like a
I'll share you or I'll let you sleep with other guys.
It was just like, Oh fucking please tell me all about this
(06:34):
guy that you just fucked like. And I was like, what are, who
are these guys like? Who are you?
Yeah. Like what?
So I really wanted to share thatwith other women.
And that was the, that was when I first started writing in what
was it 2016, I started writing Ablog.
(06:54):
And then it was the January of 2020 that I started podcasting,
which was kind of just like a spur of the moment decision to
do that. And that's been, that's what
I've been doing ever since that and the matchmaking service.
Well, that's, that's an amazing evolution.
And when you think of it, there's a couple things that
(07:17):
come to mind for me, 'cause thatthat's very much like my, my
circumstances were a little bit different.
But you know, that was one of the primary thoughts that I had
too. Like, why wouldn't every woman
on earth wanna cuck man? Yeah, I mean cake and eat it too
much. But the other thing is that I
(07:40):
think it's a giant misconceptionthat and you just described it
very, very well, that somehow he's being deprived.
Well, the truth is there are a certain class of men that are
hard wired this way and they don't feel deprived at all.
You know, it is sort of the the space of compersion where
they're getting just as much joyout of that sexual connection
(08:03):
that you have that that you are.And so that's not like, even
though they're not out doing other women, they're
participating in your experiencewith you and and that's where
they get a lot of joy. So that's one of the sort of
secret parts of cuckolding. I think that too, that people
don't talk about enough. You know, it's always, well, why
(08:26):
does she always get what she wants and he doesn't get
anything. And it's not like that.
It's really not like that. Yeah, and that was the part that
really fascinated me too, because I was astounded by the
reaction that he was having fromjust me sleeping with other
guys. It wasn't even just like a oh,
OK, you know, tell me about it later.
But like, I've never seen a guy so turned on like that in my
(08:50):
life, like ever. And I was like, what is this?
This game is fun. Like I was feeding off of the
energy from him because he was just so.
And I knew that if I sent him a picture of me with like a big
Dick in my mouth, like he was just gonna lose his fucking
mind, like. Yeah, you know that that
(09:13):
descriptive word fun doesn't even quite capture it, right?
It doesn't quite capture it, butit's it's in that realm
somewhere. So.
So where are you now relationship wise?
And I would, I think everybody in the world assumes that you
must have 10,000 cucks at all times.
Do you have a primary relationship?
(09:35):
You know what? What has been your experience
subsequent to that? Now that you've discovered it?
How has that, how has that morphed, and what's your
experience been with actually trying to seek out a cuck
partner? Yeah, it's been shit.
So I really honestly in the beginning I thought OK, after my
(09:56):
first cuck boyfriend that that relationship was long distance.
It didn't last. And then after that, my partner
who I had, we were together for a little while and he just got
really sick and passed away. And after that I took a long
break. Obviously, that was pretty
awful. And then I really did think that
(10:17):
I was just gonna, you know, findsomeone amazing again and be
able to have that relationship again and, and it not be super
challenging because let's face it, there's like a lot of single
guys out there that really want this kind of relationship.
I really didn't think it would be that difficult.
And I really did think that my journey in within the cuckolding
(10:41):
realm was gonna be about telling, you know, sharing my
story about a relationship. I, I didn't realize and I, I
know like, it's looking back, it's kind of weird, but like,
really, that wasn't it. It was gonna be me sharing my
story about the challenges around dating.
(11:04):
And I didn't really anticipate that.
I really, I didn't think that that was gonna be my thing, that
it was gonna that I was gonna betalking about.
OK, why is dating in this, this sphere so dysfunctional?
And why is there so much of A disconnect happening?
And so that's really been my journey up until now is to, to,
(11:28):
to, to really explore that, to talk about it and to do
something about it, not just complain about it.
But I did not anticipate that. I did not expect that.
I thought that it would be easier for me to find somebody
long term because like I said, there's lots of guys out there.
(11:50):
There's very few single women who are looking for a cock
boyfriend. Like, first of all, they don't
know that it exists. Second of all, if they do come
across guys who are like, oh, I wanna be your cock.
It's usually he's using her for wank material and that doesn't
go anywhere. And so it's it's it's really,
(12:13):
really challenging because like there's a lot of guys out there.
I've come across a ton of guys, but unfortunately I have years
and years of people who've just wasted my time and that's been
so frustrating. I can't imagine.
So for some context here, for our listeners, for those of you
(12:38):
who haven't seen Vienna, she's this drop dead gorgeous human
female. She's smart, she's funny, she's
intelligent, she's self aware, she's informed, and she has a
broad broadview. And I'm in this space too.
And I know that, you know, and Idon't know what technically what
(12:59):
the numbers are, but I'm gonna guess that there's probably 1000
men who want women like her who are willing to cuckold them for
every one woman who's willing to.
So there's something not right about this entire math.
There's something that's totallynot right about it.
(13:20):
So from your perspective and andyou and I can share some ideas
on this, but from your perspective, what are you
encountering? There's all these prospects that
are out there, you know, guys that say or maybe give lip
service to the fact that they would like to have a
relationship with you and they wanna be cucks and blah, blah,
(13:41):
blah. What is your experience in the
field? Yeah, so I would, I would.
I went through in the very beginning, I didn't understand
why there were so many guys who say that they really want those
kind of relationship, act like they really want this kind of
relationship. And then when it comes to
actually meeting in person or, you know, making it a reality,
(14:05):
then they chicken out, they get cold feet and they are just
poof, gone. And this was happening to me.
I mean, there's a certain degreeof that in regular dating as it
is, but in cuckold dating, this is really epidemic because this
is a chronic issue that keeps happening over and over again.
A lot of these guys are acting in these bad behavior ways and
(14:29):
they don't even realize that they're all doing it.
And so it was a matter of me, this happening to me over and
over and over again, where I'd be like, really invest my time
into somebody, you know, and, and then poof, they're gone.
And then months or even a year later, they would come back and
they'll always come back. And they would have some stupid
(14:49):
excuse and they would be like, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah.
And then it would happen again. And, and when this happened like
so many times, I'm like, what the fuck?
You can't help but like, wonder,is something wrong with me?
Like what is going on here? And it took me fucking years to
understand that there's so many guys out there who carry this
(15:12):
really debilitating level of shame around being interested in
this kind of relationship or this kind of fantasy that they
are able to like, shelve that shame for the first little bit
of building a relationship. But at some point it becomes too
much and it's just easy to just fucking drop off and flake out
and ghost. And so this happens over and
(15:35):
over and over again. And you know how hard that is as
a woman to like not get that explanation ever and just be
treated like that. Like, I can't even count how
many times I have been ghosted. I like literally he's just not
showing up at the airport. Like, like this is this is so
(15:56):
bad that you come to just kind of expect it.
And it wasn't until I started talking to other single women
who, like I said, they're, they barely exist.
They're, and they were saying the same fucking thing.
And I was like, Oh no, this is really a problem.
And so I began to really understand that there's this
(16:16):
really fucking shitty aspect to,to cuckolding where guys carry
all of this shame and guilt and it's like self loathing
actually, and how detrimental that is to them, but how
absolutely crushing it is to relationships or potential
relationships or building a relationship.
(16:38):
I saw, Oh my God, having to dealwith that almost been the worst
fucking thing because then I wasjust like, why are you all
acting like this? Like, can you fucking stop it?
And then there'll be guys who they are simply out there to
waste your time. This is just they want someone
to talk to cuckolding about so they can wank off and.
(17:00):
Yeah, fulfill a fantasy. Fulfill a fantasy.
And there's so many married guysout there who are pretending to
be single cocks who just want to, you know, string you along
and wank off a bunch while they,you know, fantasize, talk with
you. Oh, like all that stuff and it's
just infuriating. It's so, it's so frustrating.
(17:21):
It's no wonder there's so few single women who were out there
looking for this because they'reconstantly getting ghosted,
They're constantly getting flicked on, they're constantly
getting bombarded with fantasy vomit like in the first fucking
conversations. Like it's just, it's too much
like and then you've got the allthe other problems of there's so
(17:45):
much fear around discretion withguys.
I mean, there are with women too, but especially with men.
Men are, they fear somebody finding out so badly that they,
it's almost like an unrealistic fear in some ways, because they
are just so scared and so heavily closeted about this that
(18:06):
there's no way they're ever going to show you a picture of
who they are. They're they're never gonna be
honest about their name or wherethey're from or how old they are
or like basic shit. So you know how hard it is to
get to know somebody when they won't even tell you the most
basic information or if they do,it's not real.
Or if they send you a picture, it's not actually them.
(18:28):
Like you know how hard it is to start a relationship when it
starts with distrust and dishonesty.
It's like it doesn't fucking work.
So there's all of these issues around dating in this lifestyle
that are just they're, they makeit so difficult.
But I don't think a lot of the men out there realize that this
is part of the reason why there's so few women out there
(18:52):
who are looking, because you have to be really committed to
wanting this kind of relationship if you're gonna
stick around in this dating arena and be treated like that
repeatedly. Well, this conversation makes my
head wanna explode in about 50 different directions because I'm
(19:13):
on the other side. You know, I'm I'm advertised for
a cock and I married him. And so I didn't go through this
the cut dating experience. I just got lucky.
I just rolled the dice and got lucky once.
But I have heard from hundreds, hundreds of men that are this
(19:34):
wanting, needing. How could I find a woman like
you? And it just blows my mind and
defies my imagination that somebody like you, who would be
a gem in any configuration, it puts up with that kind of
behavior. I mean, it's like the men of the
(19:55):
world still, in spite of being in the 21st century, they, they
look at women like they're your kink dispensers.
That's what women exist for, to,to somehow give you wank
material or, you know, get you excited so you can go home and
fuck your wife or something likethis.
But it it's infuriating to me. To hear what you've been
(20:19):
through, when I know that I hearthe same thing so many men want
and so many men are not able to actually come to the table.
It's infuriating. So if I had anything to say to
the cuckwannabe men out there, it is this.
Listen to this and take it to heart.
(20:42):
You'll never have this and there's no woman out there,
certainly not anybody in the position that Venus is in to
fulfill your, your, your king fantasies.
That's not her job. That's not any woman's job.
That's no woman's job. Your job is to do your own
personal growth enough so that you can come to the table, have
(21:04):
the courage to talk to the womenthat you know and say, you know,
here's something about me. And, you know, I would just be
thrilled if you would consider, you know, having other lovers.
And I don't need this. I don't have that same need.
But I'd be thrilled if you would.
I mean, grow the fuck up. Yeah.
(21:26):
And that's the thing about this is it does take work, but that's
not sexy, and that's not part ofthe fantasy for a lot of guys.
They're like, wait, what? And like, no, this is just about
what turns me on. In the moment and as soon as he
comes, then it's like Venus, whoyou know and, and it's you know
how insulting, how insulting is that?
(21:47):
We're human beings out here. We don't exist for your fantasy
fulfillment. That's not our role.
We're happy to participate with you, whatever you bring to the
table. We can probably match you.
But it's not our job to give youother reasons to go yank your
Dick. It's not our job.
It's just not our job. Yeah, and what for?
(22:11):
For the for the guys, the singleguys who are listening to this
right now. For the Mary Cucks.
Good for you. You're fucking lucky.
And you know you've won the lottery and treat her amazing
and treat her right. But for the single guys out
there who are like, Oh my God, Ireally want to find a woman
who's into this. Why can't I find more women into
this? Why is this so difficult?
Let me just tell you. OK?
(22:32):
So listen up. I hope you got your pen and
paper right now because I'm gonna tell you some shit.
This is important for the guys to know because I have guys who
come to me and they're like, well, why?
Why aren't there more women? Why?
What do you like, you should go out and find more women for your
matchmaking service. And I'm just like, man, I have
literally been trying to reach women for how many years is it
(22:55):
now? Almost?
It feels like almost a decade. I have been screaming it out to
the fucking world. I have put my face out there.
I have literally done everythingI can to reach women and tell
them about how amazing this is. Same with you, Crystal.
How we go out that we tell people we are doing this to
reach women, to let them know, OK, that's never going to be
(23:17):
enough for us to just do that. It is unfortunately never ever,
ever gonna be enough for me to just tell women how great and
amazing this is. Let's face it, cuckolding is an
invisible relationship for the most part.
It is because if as a woman if Igo on Tinder right now and I'm
scrolling through profiles, I never see a profile that
(23:40):
mentions cuckolding or A1 sided open relationship ever.
Like ever. Even on field.
It's like one of the kinky, morekinkier apps.
It is very, very rare, very, very uncommon for Cox to
actually put it on there. And so, but on Tinder and Bumble
(24:02):
and all the regular fucking vanilla apps, at least 30% of
them mention non monogamy of some form, way shape or form.
So so swinging, open, relate, Poly, whatever, then that's not
taboo. That is not abnormal.
Everybody knows that. There's lots of people out there
practicing non monogamy. The guys have no problem putting
(24:23):
that in there. Oh yeah, I'm Polly, I'm in an
open relationship, whatever. They have no problem putting
that on there because there's noshame to that, right?
For the most part, there's really not.
And so women see that non monogamy exists, but they don't
see that there is this one kind that's very unique where it's
open on one side only. They don't even know about that.
(24:46):
So for them, it always means nonmonogamy equals him sleeping
with other women. And there's lots of US women who
are like, fuck that shit. I don't want to share my
partner. And so they don't even know that
this is an option. And so men are OK with putting
non monogamy on their profile, but they're not OK with
admitting that they want something that's open on one
(25:08):
side only. And so it's invisible to so many
women out there. It's no wonder why people women
are like, well, I'm not signing up for something I I don't even
know it exists. So.
Well, and even the ones that hear about it don't believe it
exactly. Because that is.
Yeah, of course they are. Because they've never been an
(25:28):
experience where a man could be unselfish like that, where he
could provide safety and security in the relationship for
her and also let her go find adventure.
Which my my favorite psychologist, Esther Perel would
say that's what all human women and men need.
We need safety and we need adventure.
(25:48):
And sometimes you can't get thatwith just one person.
Absolutely. And you know, that's, that's the
thing. This is a big important
conversation. And you've touched on so many
important points that I just don't know how we can emphasize
them enough. So how would you advise the
women in the world that might listen to this to have an open
(26:13):
mind about the possibilities? What are some of the joys that
you have gotten out of it? I know for myself, I was in a
monogamous marriage before and he went off with a rock band and
I was a single parent after that.
And I thought, you know, that's not what I signed up with for
(26:34):
marriage. I wanted a partner and a lover
and a companion. And I didn't have any of those
things. So I decided way back then, way,
way when my son was still little, I'm not a candidate for
marital monogamy ever again. I it's not enough.
Now, had we been able to engage in, you know, a higher level
(26:57):
conversation like this, saying, hey, you're gonna tour with this
band, I'm gonna have a lover, you know, I would have stayed
married to him. Who wants to get divorced?
Nobody, nobody wants to get divorced.
But we weren't able to have that.
AI didn't know it existed. And I never thought that there
would ever be a man that would accept that thing.
So. So that's out there.
(27:18):
But now that I'm in it, I can't,I can't express the depth of the
intimacy, the joy, the connection that we have found
because this is an intense personal growth program for both
of us. It has caused both of us to go
deeper and wider with ourselves and with each other.
(27:40):
And so I end up, you know, at this sort of late stage of the
game with the relationship that's everything I always
dreamed of, but I never believedactually existed.
It it happened right here. So from your perspective, Venus,
how would you advise other womento find an open heart and an
(28:03):
open mind and how how might theyencourage that discussion with a
prospective? Partner Well, I think women
talking to other women is a big part of understanding this kind
of relationship or the potentialfor that kind of next level
love, trust and connection that comes with this kind of
(28:24):
relationship. But I really do feel like this
begins with men. This really does the this does
this begins with men. So for the guys who are married,
this is about and they're you know, there's so many guys out
there listening right now who are afraid to bring this up to
their partner. Don't know how and if they will
(28:46):
probably won't get it right and.Yeah, or they've brought it up
before and they were shut down immediately, so they went back
in their cave and they never ventured to get ever talk about
it again. Yeah.
So I there is for that. I feel like there's the the way
that you bring this up to a woman is not fantasy focused.
This needs to be about the potential benefits to a
(29:07):
relationship. When you frame it like that and
you approach it like that for guys, that's that's a big part
of it. And then connecting her with
other women. Oh, hey, you should listen to
this podcast or you should read this blog or you should join the
Slut sisters group or you know, whatever to be able to connect
women, to be able to learn from others.
(29:27):
And that's where that key component comes from.
But for for the single guys, this is the thing this is and I
went, I, I talked a little bit about this before.
I mean, this is for the single guys listening right now.
This is another thing that you need to write down on your pen
and paper. You guys need to start putting
it out there that this is actually what you're looking
(29:49):
for. And I know the knee jerk
reaction from guys listening right now is like, fuck no,
there's no way I'm putting it out there to the world that this
is what I'm into. Why?
Because I carry a lot of shame and I'm very scared of anyone
finding out. That's not what I'm talking
about. I'm talking about introducing
this as a form of one sided opennon monogamy and going from
(30:10):
starting from that step one and building it out from there.
And and like I mentioned before,non monogamy is not weird.
You see it on these dating profiles as it is.
It's not weird. It's all you have to say and
listen up and write this down. All you have to say is I am
looking for A1 sided open relationship where you get to
(30:35):
have the extra fun and we both really love it that way.
That is all you need to put on there.
And I promise you, you will get the lottery.
I promise you, you will. Those are the magic magic words.
Well, you're at least going to get curiosity from a woman
because that's those words are not weird.
(30:56):
They're not kinky strange words that she has no idea they are
not like there's taboo or whatever.
It's she's good and you can evenwrite on your profile.
Ask me more I'd love to tell youmore about it and then have that
conversation. Do not bring up the word kink
cuckolding. I don't know any of that shit.
(31:17):
Like don't use that language, just simply frame it around A1
sided open relationship and thatyou both love it that way,
meaning you both get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Stress the part that you really don't want the same kind of
privilege that she has but that this is really about her.
And if you frame it like that, Imean that is a great place to
(31:38):
start. Not every woman is going to even
want to be curious about non monogamy.
I get it. There's a a lot of women out
there have this love affair withmonogamy that is, you know,
deeply ingrained since birth. And I get that.
But for the ladies who this might be something that they
could at least even learn about,then that would be a good
approach to do it. But until guys put that out
(32:01):
there on their profiles, we willnever see women signing up for
this shit. We will never see it.
And in on the same scale why women are not out there watching
cock porn. They're not.
And they're not out there online.
They're not on Twitter. They're not single.
Women are just not out there looking into cuckolding like men
(32:22):
are. Men are do they are researching
this shit like it's a sport and the women simply are not.
So you, in order for women to get on board, you really do need
to sell this to them. I wanna say this, sell it to
them in a way that is female centered, female focused and all
about creating something together and not just about you
(32:46):
saying to her, oh, I really wantto see you fuck some other
dudes. Like that's so hot.
She'd be like, what? So until that happens, we're
never gonna have women signing up for this on mass like we see
men wanting to do that. So there's some key, really key
factors that none of those factors that I just mentioned
(33:08):
involve doing the work. That is something that you need
to just fucking do. And let me tell you, the guys
who I've come across over the years who have gone to therapy
and done the work and not just Idon't see it work because
there's something wrong with you.
I mean, learning how to analyze your interior, yourself, your
behaviors, all of that sort of stuff.
And, and, and then learning the communication skills that you
(33:32):
fucking need in order to be ableto explore this with your
partner. They you, when I come across
those guys, I'm like, I know already just by talking to them,
I'm like, you've done the work. I can tell.
So there is something that is not sexy, not fun, kind of
scary. Probably not not fun sounding at
(33:52):
all that you have to actually do.
So I I hope you get your hand out of your pants for long
enough to understand that this is so much more than just the
porn video you've been obsessingover for 15 years.
Man, I'll tell you what, she just gave you the golden ticket
to everything. For those of you who are
(34:14):
interested and have been frustrated because you can't
find a woman she gave you she gave you the whole ball of wax
right there. I don't I can't improve upon it.
She she told you exactly exactlybecause if you understood the
(34:34):
benefits that last beyond. I mean, I think a lot of these
men who are obsessing over trying to find a woman who will
do this. As you just so eloquently spoke
about having your hand in your pants.
If you get your hand out of yourpants and try and understand
what the dynamic, the deeper things that are available to
(34:54):
you. Let's take shame.
She mentioned that shame. I've watched my husband who came
from a deeply Catholic background.
He actually went spent a couple years in the seminary, Catholic
seminary. So how much guilt do you think
he had? And he and his wife were his
other wife was, they were swingers.
And he came to understand that they go to these parties and he
(35:18):
would just watch her because he,he wasn't so inclined, but he
was deeply ashamed of that. So when he and I got together,
we, you know, I just said, hey, let's, let's excavate that.
Let's figure out what that's about, you know, because I
wanted him to be free of it. I wanted him to be free of it.
And so we played with it and we talked about it and, and I
(35:40):
supported him. And that's where that we both
got into erotic humiliation because it makes sort of makes
fun of the stuff that you're embarrassed about.
And all of a sudden it's not embarrassing anymore.
It's funny. And, and it just releases.
He has been released from his sexual shame.
(36:02):
And boy, if you don't think that's a load off your mind, if
that's what you're struggling with, there's a way out for you,
but the only way out is straightthrough and it's yours to do.
Don't expect that it's some woman's job to excavate that
from you. But if you get into a genuine
partnership and you're willing to look at your own stuff and
(36:23):
where you're embarrassed and where you're ashamed of
something and, and make a relationship, like a real
relationship with a real woman and talk about these things
openly, you have an excellent chance.
You have an excellent chance to be free for the first time in
your life. Possibly.
I mean, I know my husband says the same thing that, that I've
said he never, ever imagined that he would find himself in a
(36:47):
position where he's so, you know, I am such a cheater and
he's so free at the same time. He's the one that feels free
'cause he's free in his mind. Yeah, he's free in his mind.
He, he, he just totally accepts.He is who he is.
And we both have fun with it and, and there's just an awful
(37:07):
lot of benefits. So I hope if you did not take
meticulous notes, I hope you go back and listen again and write
it down and keep reading it because she gave you the actual
process by which you can find everything that you've ever
wanted. But it's up to you.
Nobody's it's nobody's job to hand you this dynamic.
(37:32):
And if you and and and porn is not, I said porn is also not
gonna give it to you. Porn will give you the salacious
details, but that's not where the party really is.
That's not where the freedom really is.
That's not where the release of guilt and shame really is.
It's in these deeper relationships with an actual
woman. Yeah.
Well, one of the things that guys are most terrified about
(37:54):
that I've heard from them about is that if they do kind of lay
with the woman emotionally naked, like emotionally naked
with her will. And she know.
And she, you know, he shares allof these details about his
deepest darkest fantasies, desires, insecurities, fears,
(38:14):
all of these things that she will no longer respect him.
And and so he doesn't share these things.
He simply just wanks off to the fantasy about it and everything
like that. That's not doing the work.
You do this work together where you both lay emotionally naked.
The way you talked about excavating his mind, his
(38:35):
thoughts, his everything, his desires, that's the work.
When you lay there emotionally naked and you are just
completely vulnerable with each other.
Just for the guys listening to that.
I know that sounds scary becauselike I said, like you're worried
that she's just not going to respect you anymore.
Let me tell you, if you are witha woman who loves you, loves
(38:58):
you, loves all of you, then she is not going to disrespect you
because you have bared your fucking soul like that.
If anything, as women, we understand the relevance of
that, we the importance of that,the courage behind that, and we
(39:19):
respect you even more after that, because that's how I felt
like when he, you know, had the courage to really tell, share
his deepest, darkest desires with me and he he felt safe
knowing that I wasn't going to judge him.
I just, I looked at this man andI was like, that is amazing what
(39:40):
you just did for us. Like you, you just shared that
like, and it made me feel like Icould share whatever I, you
know, wanted with this person. You feel this deep level of
trust and safety with this person.
And that's like, think about it guys for one second.
OK, Just lean into that fear of,Oh no, she's not going to
respect me anymore. I'm just going to be
(40:01):
disrespected. And you know, she's not going to
look at me like I'm a real man. And you know, fuck that garbage.
Shove that shit out of your headand just fucking lean into it.
Lean into it, bear you fucking soul, I mean, and be in, you
know, vulnerable with your partner.
Communicate these things together and don't shy away from
(40:21):
it and look, lean into it and look what's on the other side.
Look what's on the other side. It's like this fucking
incredible. That's what I call next Gen.
next level love, trust and connection with a person.
And that's why this kind of relationship is really different
in my mind and my experience. You really do go to a different
level. You absolutely do.
(40:43):
And, and the benefits are on both sides.
The benefits are on both sides. Think about, you know, for the
women that might be listening, how would you value a man that
could actually be vulnerable andcould actually be really honest
with who he is? You know, men are not trained to
deal with their emotions, not inWestern civilizations, they're
(41:03):
not. They're supposed to be rough and
tough and not show emotion and, you know, be stoic all the time
and be the strong one and blah blah blah blah blah.
And you and you raise generationafter generation after
generation of men who don't knowhow to feel and don't know how
to express and don't know how to, you know how to be who they
are. That's the work for all of us as
(41:25):
a society, as a culture that we have to unravel.
And I'm not suggesting that we're all gonna turn out to be
consensually non monogamous in some way or the other.
But I'll tell you what a growingpercentage is for a lot of
reasons that we've talked about.But you can't get there unless
you're willing to actually be vulnerable and do the work and
(41:45):
do the work. It is work and it's ongoing
work. It's not like you just do it one
time and bang, you know the world falls at your lap.
But also, it's absolutely never gonna happen.
If you're expecting some woman, some enlightened woman like
Venus, to come and lay this on you and make it easy for you, it
isn't gonna happen that way. Not now, not ever.
(42:05):
So if you want somebody like her, do the work.
She's worth it. Yeah, and even, you know, just
I'm this is crazy. Like, I still get ghosted on the
regular. I rarely do, you know, reinvest
my time on anyone anymore when it comes to dating because,
like, this has been such a shitty experience for me.
(42:28):
But you know, I do have a matchmaking service.
I do meet single guys. I have met some of them in
person and some of them have been really awesome.
But at the end of the day, let'sface it, like it's really
difficult to find love as it is.You're really you're but you
know, you're, you're it's so hard.
You know, you're you're fucking,you're just waiting to feel that
kind of the sparks and you're not.
(42:50):
And you're like a damn there's there's only like friend vibes
happening and like how shitty isthat?
But that's the way it is. You know, you can line
everything up on paper as far asyour preferences and your
fantasies and everything like that, but you need to meet in
person and you know, like there could be nothing.
Well, that's, you know, that's awhole other issue.
And I think that's, you know, that's also endemic in our
(43:12):
society. You know, you, you, you see it
written everywhere. You know, the frustrations that
men have with women, women have with men and they're not getting
together. And, you know, the young men in
our culture are just there's a couple of lost generations out
there. They don't wanna date.
They don't ever wanna marry. They don't ever wanna have kids.
(43:34):
They don't, you know, they're not willing to even even
consider all of that. And so, so it isn't easy.
It isn't easy even if you were just a plain old straight up
monogamous person. None of it is easy.
And this adds an element of complexity that makes it even
harder. I'm just saying that it's worth
(43:55):
it. That's all I can say is it's
worth it. And to not give up and not let
people like Venus get cynical because you act shitty.
Don't do it. You know, it drives good women
out of the lifestyle permanently.
And then there's gonna be even less for you to wink to.
(44:17):
Yeah. So get your hand out of your
pants, play this podcast over again, take notes, and then
start working on yourself because it's just worth it.
It's worth it. It is worth it.
And when you do find that personwho you've approached them in a
respectful way and you have built a relationship before
(44:38):
incorporating all of these, you know, sexual desires and stuff,
you really, you know, got the framework for this relationship
set and built and done before you jump into things together.
You've done the work on yourselfWhen you have done all of that,
Oh my God, the fucking joy of a life that you can create
(44:59):
together. The fantasies that you guys can
both like fulfill together are, you know, the Sky's the limit
and that's where all of the fun is.
But it doesn't just fucking fallin your lap.
Like you need to actually do this purposely in a way that is
respectful, respects people's time and and be genuine.
(45:20):
Be authentic, be yourself. Because you cannot start a
relationship with mistrust and dishonesty.
Be you're going to have to. Yeah, I know there's a lot of
women out there who prey on single cocks who just want to
extort you or blackmail you or whatever.
There's some shady ass shit going on out there.
And I get it. Like there's a lot.
But at some point, at some point, you're going to have to
(45:43):
just trust your intuition and gofor it and be who you are and,
you know, put it out there because like I said, you can't
start a relationship with dishonesty.
And that's the reason why in my matchmaking service, it is
private. So nobody, there's no scrolling
through profiles or anything like that.
But you do have to tell me your fucking real name, your address,
(46:07):
everything about you. I need to know all of it.
And if you lie, you get kicked out of the program.
And that's super uncomfortable for lots of people who've been
used to, you know, holding down privacy as, like, you know, the
most important thing. I get it.
But I'm gonna have to push you out of your comfort zone if
you're gonna date. Well, that's, that's a service
(46:27):
even bigger than you can imaginethat just the fact that somebody
would go through that screening process and, and confront
themselves to that extent. But ask yourself a question,
what am I expecting here if I can't go to a legitimate, you
know, matchmaking service and feel like I can be honest at the
(46:50):
most basic level there. Who am I kidding?
I'm not looking for a relationship.
You're fooling yourself. You're just fooling yourself.
So wake up and I want you to. Why don't you tell us where they
can find you Venus, and where they can find your matchmaking
service so that so that they canjump on and see if they have
(47:12):
what it takes to get through theinterview process.
Well, that's the thing, it is a bit of a, it's been a great
filter in filtering out the guyswho really and the women who
shouldn't be, who should not be dating.
Because you have to, you know, buy a membership.
You have to fill out a detailed questionnaire.
You have to do a three-week course.
You have to have an interview with me and show up for it.
(47:34):
And if you don't show up, you get kicked out.
If there's actually, like I say,basic fucking rules, but that,
you know, you be honest, that you show up, that you put in
effort and if you don't, you getkicked out of the program.
That's as simple as it is. But it's been a great filter for
that. So all of the blades, the dates
are blind dates and they're all on Zoom.
(47:56):
And, and like, yeah, there's, there's a ton of guys looking
for it. There's not many women.
However, in there's two programs.
There's the cuckolding program, lots of dudes, not a lot of
women. There's the female lead, which
is no cuck holding. It's a smaller program because
it's still pretty new, but the gender ratio is totally totally
the opposite. There's tons of women and not
(48:17):
very many men, so it is not fascinating.
I'm like, when it comes to men having their sexual fantasy
fulfilled, this is really important and they'll sign up
for Venus Connections cuckoldingprogram.
But when it comes to putting a woman first in a relationship,
they're not as likely to sign upfor for that.
So this is not surprising. Somehow, somehow this is not
(48:38):
surprising. Well, you think, you know, think
about it. We've got thousands of years of
history of very strict religiousexpectations and, and moral
leanings that have said that you, you must get married and
never have another lover ever inyour life.
(48:59):
And, and our society is in the process.
I think what it feels like to me, we're in the process of
starting to break that apart, but we're also up against
thousands of years of history. So this isn't gonna happen
overnight. It's gonna happen person by
person, step by step, you know, And it takes you've, you've got
to take a step in the direction of what you actually want if you
(49:20):
ever hope to get there. Yeah, the website for Venus
Connections is venusconnections.com.
Super simple. And then for my website and my
podcast and my booking private chats with me and stuff like
that is venuscuckolddress.com. So everything else is on there.
And we will have all of that information in the show notes so
(49:41):
that you could, if, if you didn't copy it down, you can go
back and get it. But please listen to this again
and take notes. If you didn't the first time,
'cause I know you suckers did not take notes and you need to
'cause she gave you the keys to the Kingdom, you better take
notes on it. So thank you so much, Venus.
It was just wonderful as always talking to you.
(50:02):
And you're just a fount of knowledge and wisdom, and I
cannot tolerate the fact that you might get cynical about this
because you are a joy and will be a gem for somebody if we can
just filter through the riff raff enough to find them.
Thank you. There's somebody out there for
you. I'm sure of it.
(50:23):
I'm just sure of it. Thank you so much, Crystal.
Thanks for having me on the show.
All right, talk to you another time.
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