June 21, 2024 • 52 mins
In this podcast episode, we delve into how masterful storytelling can elevate black entrepreneurs and their startup ventures.
Join Kenny Groom and Jonathan Dumas as they dive into how black entrepreneurs can leverage storytelling to connect deeply with their audience, build brand trust, and accelerate their business growth. They share insights on using personal narratives to differentiate your brand and engage your listeners in the entrepreneurial journey.
Discover actionable strategies for integrating storytelling into your marketing and pitching efforts, and learn why this skill is crucial for the success of black-owned startups.
#BlackEntrepreneurs #StartupStorytelling #EntrepreneurialJourney #BusinessGrowthStrategies #BeyondNormal
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hey, how's it going?
My name is Kenny Groom.
I am the host of the BeyondNormal podcast.
I've been podcasting forseveral years now.
I'm looking forward to justdiscussing some of the things
I've seen and learned in thisspace.
I'm going to pass it to myfellow podcaster now so he can
give you a quick intro on theamazing things he's doing with
his work.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, what up y'all?
My name is Jonathan Dumas.
I'm also obviously a podcasterof a show called Highly Visible
and A Little Misunderstood.
I've also been podcasting for afew years now.
I'm really excited to dive intoall the learnings, resources
stuff.
We wish we knew all this stuffalong.
(01:06):
You know this thing calledpotting, so really excited to be
here and uh talk and chat andbe real about the process.
Uh, because podcasting yeahpodcasting is really hella hard
um for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So, you know, as we both have been, uh, podcasting
for several years now, thelandscape is always changing,
changing.
But you know, as we weretalking and kind of
brainstorming and just seeinghow far we've come, we thought
it would be, you know, now theperfect time for us to.
You know, just share with theworld, reflect a little bit
around some of those things thatwe've learned throughout the
process.
For those that may be out therelooking to be a podcaster or
(01:41):
interested in getting into thespace, why go there to bump your
head if somebody's there todraw some knowledge, to help you
progress a little?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
faster, yeah, and I would even add, like, for those
who are already podcasting,right, or maybe who's been
podcasted stopped podcastedstopped, like you know.
It's also helpful to hear youknow you're not alone in kind of
like that journey.
You're not alone in like likethe process that we've all like
(02:12):
any podcast who's beenpodcasting for a while has like
felt the things you felt, donethe things you've done all of
the things.
And so, um, I think a big partof some of the conversations we
had off mic um, and that uh willlikely have on on mic uh, is
that, like you know, podcastingis hard, um, and uh, like, the
name of the game is consistency,showing up all those things.
So, um, I can't wait to liketalk more about it, because I do
(02:36):
really love podcasting.
It's so fun to me, it's so funto me.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, the podcasters that I know say the same thing
that jonathan.
Jonathan, it says, the onesthat go more than a couple
episodes, they really do enjoyit.
Uh, to your point, jonathan,like every time I have a
conversation off air with thepodcaster, I learn something.
Yes, right, I'm learning abouta new tool, a new way to to kind
(03:01):
of break up my clips.
I'm learning a new way toengage with my, my guests and,
ultimately, the audience.
And so, to your point, like, uh, the podcasters that are out
there as well already doing it,I think they'll definitely get
some value, uh, from some, fromsome of the uh experiences that
we can allude to a little yepand and like, uh, like, uh,
(03:22):
folks always say, especiallyblack folks, if you.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, when you know, you know, if you know, you know,
and I feel like otherpodcasters know, uh, you know
what I mean.
So, um, uh, one of the thingsthat we didn't do before we dive
into, uh, some of thesequestions that we outlined, uh,
kenny, is we didn't talk about,like, what our shows are about.
So what is your show about?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
um, kenny, you know we're touching on the businesses
, the podcast that we, we bothrun.
So what is your show about,kenny?
You know we're touching on thebusinesses, the podcast that we
both run.
My podcast, the Beyond Normalpodcast, is about essentially
highlighting Black foundersright, the journeys that they're
on.
I know that there's someincredible founders out there
(04:07):
doing, you know, just amazingthings and underserved
communities a lot of times.
And so when you start to thinkabout the, the, the black
business owners that are here,um, you know, in the States and
really around the world, like we, we got to figure out how to
make sure we're we're constantlyshining a light, a spotlight on
their stories, and that was themain reason I started uh, you
know, started the beyond Normalpodcast.
That's like the kind of thelaunching point, the launching
(04:29):
thought, and I can actually justshare real briefly, like just
to let folks know, my very firstguest was a local founder in
the Charlotte area who had adelivery laundry service.
When you think about somethinglike laundry, it's something
that hasn't changed right fordecades, if not centuries.
(04:51):
But all the technology that'sout here, you know, allows
someone doing something Someonemay seem as simple as a laundry
delivery service to bring theirbusiness into 2024.
Technology serves allbusinesses really across the
world, and so, um, you know, I'malways looking for founders
that are out there doing amazingthings being a business owner,
(05:13):
because it's not a it's not aeasy task to found and, uh, run
your own company.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, no, that's cool .
See, look at me almost goinginto podcast host mode because
that's, that's super fun andlike that's a great example of
just, you know, the fulfillingof, like the mission, of your,
your show, of just likesomething so seemingly normal,
um, but you like hear theirstory and you're like, oh, shoot
, like this is not just whateverlike laundry.
(05:41):
You know, I'm saying it's, it'ssomething more like, why did
you decide on laundry?
Um, what like technology islike influencing your business?
How are you pushing it forward?
Um, beyond this kind of like,um, what's the word?
I don't know what we see atface value.
That's, that's really cool,that's.
Yeah, I'm going to go back andlisten to that episode.
Oh, very first.
(06:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that um, oh, cool, I guess I'll go next
.
Um, my show, highly visible, uhand a little misunderstood, for
initially started out as, likea um, a journal.
I was just curious about thepeople on my life, curious about
the people I grew up with, um,and I just wanted to ask them
questions instead of just likethinking I know them, thinking I
(06:23):
know, you know, uh, what theirthoughts are and patterns are,
just because I spend a goodamount of time with them, or, in
some cases, not as much timewith them.
And so it has evolved intosomething more where it's, you
know, having more nuancedconversations about very complex
things.
Nuanced conversations aboutvery complex things.
(06:47):
As I was having theseconversations with my friends,
family, people that I met on theinternet that became friends
and family, I started to realizelike folks are hungry.
Very similar to what youdiscovered, kenny, is like the
stories and the why behind someof the bigger headlines, right
Behind some of the big thingsthat are going on in society,
(07:07):
the things that we navigate onan everyday basis but sometimes
feel uncomfortable around havingthose conversations or don't
know how to have thoseconversations in a way that
honors some yourself and theother person that you're talking
to, and so I just decided tohave more direct conversations
about that um and be honest andum, and take people seriously
(07:29):
about what they're saying, andit's been really cool to see the
show transformed from this likediary of myself, this open
diary and um, breaking downconcepts and I'm a policy nerd
and history nerd and stuff likethat so breaking down these
concepts for folks and it nowbeing just like full-on
conversations with you know,beyond just my friends and
family, um, uh, but people thatI'm meeting online that are like
(07:52):
these cool experts, have thesedope stories, um, and are
willing to uh, chill in the grayum and navigate that space
together and really question thewhy behind we do the things
that we do.
So it's been, it's been a reallycool and fun journey over the
past uh, few years, uh, to dothis okay that's dope, like you
touched on.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, two things there.
This is me wearing my podcast orhost at like uh, jonathan was a
guest, oh yeah, so I feel like,as you were talking, it brought
back some of the memories youknow, going through our
conversation for the pod.
But then, like you thoughtabout, like you know, people
(08:31):
telling like their honeststories, authentic stories, Like
it doesn't really get morehonest than being on a podcast,
right, Like you could probablygo and see the situation with
like this full script.
Like you could probably go andsee the situation with like this
, this full script, and then,for whatever reason, once we get
the record button, like allthat goes out the window.
(08:52):
And then you're trying tofigure out, like how can I, you
know, exhibit my true self in anaudio format?
Right, For those true kind ofdiehard podcast fans.
But now, you know, podcastingis kind of blurred the lines
between audio and video contentRight.
But you got to have honestdialogue for it to be something
(09:13):
that resonates people.
And then the second thing isthat for you again this is me
wearing my podcast hat but thepodcast fits within your
business right.
And so you had your businessand now you have your podcast
and your podcast is helping yourbusiness grow.
That's another cool thing thatyou know.
That's really an underrated wayto think about podcasting.
(09:37):
That you know I've seen somepeople tap into and really
unlock you know some business,some revenue behind having you
know content in the form of apodcast.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
It's been a really interestingjourney because I'm like a large
part of that was even, you know, think about how am I going to
make these like stories andthoughts or whatever, integrate
into the work that I'm doing, tothe work that I'm doing and
when I actually really likethought about it.
(10:08):
It was so easy because folkslike desire authenticity and
talking about life and strugglesand like fears and, you know,
work and just all theintersecting ways of being like
folks want to hear and talkabout it and so, like I've been
able to use my pod as a resourcebecause I just have like legit,
(10:29):
like cool-ass people that arewilling to have amazing
conversations and they just sohappen to be, you know, a
professor, they just so happento be an author, they just so
happen to be X, y and Z.
But what's cool and I felt thiseven when you, I was on your
show and some of the otherepisodes that I've listened to
is, again, it's like we'reseeing and talking and
(10:51):
connecting with these peoplethat like on the surface, we get
like their bio, you know,founder, whatever business owner
do, xyz, um but the way that weengage with them is actually
like their humanity first, liketheir story first, um, and
that's the part that I really,yeah, I love, um, I love, and
it's taken me a little bit toget to like landing or not
(11:13):
landing there, but getting thereto be able to do that as a host
.
But once we, once I've landedthat and gotten that um a little
bit better, it's just been thethe to your point.
The conversation is just likerich.
It's so full um and fun likepeople.
Just it's wild how like deeppeople are willing to go when
you hit that record recordbutton.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It's wild, it really is yeah yeah I don't know if
we'll talk about that, uh, backhere on this episode, but like
what you just touched on at theend, like people go really deep
and they'll just start talkingand they don't know like they've
been talking the guest I'mspeaking about.
Like they don't know they'vebeen talking for like five
minutes straight, yeah, and then, as opposed, you gotta kind of
(11:56):
like find a way to like allright stop stop giving me all
the content at one time likethis is my show like this is my
show.
I understand you're here toshare your story so I kind of
got to shut up.
But I want to interject andkind of break this up a little.
Yep, yep, but people aresurprised like once again that
record button gets it like theyjust start letting it all out
(12:18):
there and it's really authenticconversation versus you know,
like you were saying like justseeing the title of founder
somewhere.
We go to people's LinkedIn andit's like it doesn't look like
they've ever made a mistake.
Like how can you tell?
Like they like where were the,where were the lumps gained?
Right, they fall and bump theirhead and pivot Like it's really
(12:39):
hard to decipher that a lot oftimes on social media because
you just see like this finishedproduct, right.
But for podcasting in particular, it's one of the mediums, I
think, where people don't justwant to hear like the end of,
they don't just want to hear thefinished product, right, they
want the story, they want tohear the journey, they want to
(13:00):
hear all these things.
Like the most listened topodcasts are like murder
mysteries, right, like that's nosurprise.
Like people really want to hearall these things.
Like the most listened topodcasts are like murder
mysteries, right.
Like that's no surprise.
Like people really want to heara story.
They want to, like they want totake the roller coaster ride
with you.
They don't want to necessarilyto your point, like you were
saying just see, oh, thisperson's a founder, okay, yeah,
how did they get to that?
Like, what was their journey?
(13:21):
Why?
Why are they interested inentrepreneurship?
Like there's so much below thesurface, you can peel that onion
back and that's like the,that's like the movie, the movie
magic.
Like that's what makeseverybody's life somewhat of a a
movie, a mini movie or a fullyep, yep, that's good.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
We're getting into all kinds of like these, so it's
so fun.
No, we're good, we're good, Iknow that's see, this is exactly
why I wrote it out before westarted, because then I knew we
were gonna go all kinds ofplaces, um.
But, like, this is not the onlyrecording, though, too.
We're gonna get into all ofthat in like separate, separate
posts too.
(13:58):
Um, but I would, I mean, Ithink I would want, I want to
shift gears just a tiny bit, uh,because we touched on some of
the things we're going to besharing now a little bit
throughout, like those, thoselittle spills that we had.
But I think a good question islike, why do we get into potty?
You know what I'm saying.
Like, again, we said it earlier.
(14:19):
But like you know, if I were toask you, kenny, like why did
you decide to do a podcast?
Like, why that, why this medium?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
to for me it was.
I came from a work environmentwhere I was like interacting
with people in person, so sales,like it was like sales and like
data-driven conversations andmeeting with these really big
(14:46):
businesses, like big retailers,all this other stuff, right,
really cool stuff like traveling, all the whining and dining
clients and all this stuff.
And so the pandemic hit andthen it was like I'm just at
home all day, like I'm on 18Zoom calls.
I'm not necessarily likeinteracting with business owners
the way I was before, in person, kind of breaking bread.
(15:10):
And so I had to find justdifferent ways to outside of the
corporate rigid structure tohave conversations with them
where they can kind of like youknow, sit back a little bit,
take their time off, like notjust be so uptight on this zoom
call, yeah, like we were justzooming the zoom and like zoom
crazy.
Um, I understood that at thetime and so I was like, well,
(15:32):
let me see if I can startreaching back out to the
business owners in my network.
And I found out that a lot ofthem went out of business like
no surprise, due to the pandemic.
Right, everything was on holdat least right, yeah, from a
business, but the ones that wereopen within my network.
I was like, well, how are youdoing this?
Like you know, the mediaoutlets are saying it's the end
(15:53):
of the world, like times arethis.
Is this new paramount shift?
Like how are you actually ableto keep your business open?
And then it started to.
I started to dig a little bitand have conversations with them
and they were like, hey, likethis is in me, this is my
journey.
My journey has got prepared mefor these types of situations,
(16:14):
the pandemic being one of thosesituations where I'm just built
for this, like I understand it,like I'm here for it, like I'm
up to the challenge.
Um, and that was something that,like, I admired and I was like,
like, okay, we got it.
I got to figure out, like, howto bottle this, like put it, put
it in a format so other peoplecan listen, because we, with all
these businesses being, youknow, destroyed, essentially, uh
(16:35):
, we need more businesses to becreated, and so we'll probably
need more new entrepreneurs tofill that gap that's left behind
by some of those folks that youknow they cash out or they're
just not up to, they're not,they're not thinking that way
anymore in the entrepreneurmindset, and so that was really
like the launching pad for me.
I think I bought like a zoommembership or something like
(16:56):
that and then the rest ishistory, yeah.
But that was kind of thelaunching pad for me and why I
got into potting as a medium Icould quickly buy a membership
for and just start figuring outhow to put these stories in in
the content I could share withothers no, that's cool, that's
really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I like that.
I like that a lot.
Um, hmm, what about you?
Uh, I don't know.
I like I I've been a big fan ofpodcasts for a minute.
Like I don't remember the.
I don't remember, like when Ifirst started hearing podcasts.
I think it was like 2014,.
I think, um, cause I had a jobwhere I was traveling a lot and
(17:38):
I don't know who introduced meto a pod.
It might've been an article Igot or something, but I just
started like just um, devouringthese podcasts.
Um, uh, npr politics wasactually probably like my in
like initiation.
Again, I said I was like apolicy nerd, political nerd, and
so a lot of fascinating thingswere going on 2014, 2015.
(18:02):
So I was like just eating, sojust just always, constantly,
and then I love to like learnand so I just found like
podcasting was so easy to do onthe go.
So it's like, you know, if I'mon my way, you know I'm on a
business trip and I'm travelingand I gotta drive, be in a car
for like an hour and a half, allright.
Well, you know, um, I'mlistening to music or I'm a, you
(18:23):
know, listen to a podcast.
Um, and nine times out of ten,I was listening to a podcast, um
, just keeping me company, um,and yeah, I just started like
expanding it and I just startedrealizing within myself like how
much I was starting to learnabout the world and like
expanding my horizons.
Because I think at that time Iwas like Really really lonely,
(18:46):
like as far as, like you know,being around other black people
and all sorts of stuff, likejust I was at a very lonely time
in my, in my life and like Ijust kept hearing.
I was like just listen to allthese black voices doing dope
stuff and I'm like I want to betheir friend and hearing their
stories and actually learningabout other people that I've
never interacted with before,and just slowly but surely felt
(19:08):
my mind like expanding,expanding and seeing how like
huge the world is.
My mind like expanding,expanding and seeing how like
huge the world is and, and so,similar to you, like you know,
pandemic hit I'm still listeningto a lot of podcasts and then
I'm just, like you know, like Ihad this idea of like I could do
this, you know, like yearsbefore, and I was like I could
(19:30):
do this, I could do this, and Isat on it for two or three years
, pandemic hit.
You know, boredom hit.
I wasn't doing nothing and Iwas like I dusted off that
journal, that I wrote all theseideas out and, you know, I
started recording.
I did it, I tried it and it wasso interesting about how much I
(19:50):
loved it and what's.
The other interesting part is,like I didn't.
I had one episode, uh, Irecorded four or five episodes
that never went live.
Like I recorded them and theysounded bad to me so I just
stopped, um, and again two years, two, three years later, um,
you know, in the house, I waslike I'm gonna really invest
some time to like learn how todo this.
(20:11):
Well, um, and uh, I recordedand then actually just press
send, like I just was like Igotta just get it out.
Um, and the rest is similar.
The rest is history.
Like, um, I really just wantedto.
I was curious, um, about myfriends and family and I was
(20:31):
like there's no way that I'm theonly person that feels this way
, um, that has these questions,that want to know more about the
people that are in our lives.
Um, because we really did itlike we don't know what we miss,
um, so, yeah, that's, that'sreally like.
The heart of it is like I wascurious, um, I thought I could
do it and, a fun fact, growingup I always wanted to be radio
(20:52):
host and it wasn't until likeyear three, like I was doing it
for three years, and last yearwas the first time I realized
I'm like.
I'm like actually living out adream that I wanted and it's
like when I was a kid, and it'sjust so.
It's really wild that I get todo this and I'm having so much
(21:13):
fun doing it.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You still have the original four or five episodes.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They're probably somewhere.
I don't know if I can bringmyself to listen back to them.
They're probably somewhere.
One of them.
Fun fact was that the file gotcorrupted, so I spent an entire
weekend trying to learn code toum and I was able to do it.
It was funny, I was able to doit.
(21:41):
But um, yeah, those episodesare somewhere.
They're probably fine.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was probably being, you know, over critical, but um
, yeah, yeah, man yeah, that'swhat I was alluding to is, like
you said, like you launched itwhen you were just like I'm
gonna record it and hit thescene, like I just I'm not even
gonna like worry about it.
Like I knew my first couplepods in terms of, like, audio
(22:06):
and video quality, they weretrash.
It was like the zoom, zoompanda, the zoom mania, right,
and so everybody was like justget a zoom and start recording
stuff.
And I went that route and itwas just like that's not the
preferred tool for podcasting,but it at least like, like you
said, it just gave me all.
Right, let me just keep pushing, let me see if I really like
(22:29):
this enough to put in the time.
Like you, like you talked about, you recorded four or five
episodes and then you went awayfrom it because you were unsure.
I didn't even give myself thetime yeah because I'm pretty
sure it's not a reason just notto do yep, yep, no, that's good
you can't connect to.
I'm not sure I would have hadthe.
Yeah, I think I would have beenfine if I would have recorded
(22:52):
five episodes and I would neverput them out.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I would have been done I I honestly is the
pandemic, bro, like it reallywas a pandemic, honestly,
because if I didn't, if I wasnot bored, like you know, at
home, having to stay at home, um, I probably would have never
came back to it.
It probably just would havebeen one of those things that
stuck on the shelf, um, maybe Iwould have did it.
(23:14):
But you know, the job I had wascool.
I actually was enjoying it.
The reason why I even was liketrying to do something different
and potting was because I gotlike, not because I just you
know, let's do a lot of potters,you know I could do this it was
because, like, I didn't like myjob at the time, like at that
first go-around, I needed somekind of creative outlet.
(23:36):
Like it was just, oh my gosh.
And so, you know, yeah, it wasa pandemic, for sure, I honestly
think it was a pandemic.
I needed some kind of hope,yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I can relate to that.
That was part of mine.
I needed something else tofigure out how to bond with
people the way I was accustomedto.
Because the Zoom.
I'm sorry if I'm slanderingZoom.
For all the Zoom lovers outthere it destroys me being on
back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Video conferencing calls with, like this, this very
generic agenda, reviewingPowerPoint presentations.
Everything is like cookiecutter.
We're just telling each otherthe same information over and,
over and over.
I had to figure out a way.
All right, I'm going to be inZoom all day.
Let me figure out how to getsome creative output on it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to like what you were
saying right, all right, I'mgoing to be in Zoom all day, let
me figure out how to get somecreative output on it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to what you were saying,
right, where?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
work wasn't doing, my life force went down as you
started listing all that stuffout.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I just started getting drained.
That was so crushing that wasreally so crushing.
I'm glad that somebody elsefelt the way I felt that way
about it.
So, like that brings me to allright, you recorded some
episodes, you went away from it.
Now you're back with it, you're, you're feeling good, like you
(25:06):
get a real, a real good energyof busting, podcasting.
Now, like, what do you, what doyou wish you knew, like when
you originally started thisprocess.
Now that you have all thisinformation, yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Well, I'll just start with one thing and maybe we can
go back and forth on like thethings that we wish we knew.
But the the first one is likeit goes back to like why I
didn't post those episodes.
Um, the first four or fiveepisodes that I had is like I
wish I knew that it didn't haveto be perfect.
You know, I'm saying like, um,I think I fooled myself a lot of
(25:45):
the times and maybe even folksthat are new or even that are
that are podcasting now, um,that like an episode has to be
perfect, that like, um, editinghas to be perfect, sound quality
has to be perfect, um, justeverything has to be like a
certain way in order for folksto like vibe with it.
And it's so interesting that youknow some of these podcasts I
(26:08):
listen to that are huge.
You know, like I love um, uh,higher learning, uh, van lathan
and rachel lindsey, like I lovethat podcast.
I've been listening to thatpodcast sometimes and there's
like editing skips, there'sstuff that's messed up, there's
all kinds of stuff and they gotall kinds of money back in their
show and it's huge.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And then I sit there.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I'm like I don't care about that.
Like they're hilarious.
I learned something it's agreat show, it's one of my
favorite shows.
You know what I'm saying, andso like I wish I would have
known that.
You know four years ago when Istarted, that it didn't have to
be perfect, it could just be toshow up um and try your best,
and it'll get better with timeyeah, that's, that's, that's
(26:46):
good.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And, like you mentioned, in that that show
there's like the shows that weknow are like the kind of the
pinnacle of podcasting, right,like they're the ones making,
you know, the most money.
Probably they have the biggestaudience is, I think I embrace,
like here's how I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it my way it's notnecessarily going to be perfect
.
(27:06):
You can probably buy a moreexpensive camera, yep, or
microphone always.
You can always spend money onlike that type of stuff, but
once your quality gets to apoint that resonates with your
audience, um, it's good like it.
As perfect as it needs to be,you know, is the way that I like
to think about it, but that'swhat you just spoke to.
(27:27):
I've spoken to a lot of peoplethat tried podcasting and then,
like you said, they're like Ididn't look, like what I'm
seeing the videos that aregetting the millions of views
online and it's like you'reprobably not going to get that
right out the gate.
It's not going to be thisperfect, this perfect world.
It's really like more of like ajournal, like you mentioned at
(27:48):
first, like that's a.
That's a really good analogy, Ithink, for, uh, what podcasting
starts out, as for most people,and then it morphs into
something else once you getother hands in the pot and
people wanting to throw money atyou.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know who's
to say.
You actually don't like potting.
You know I'm saying why wouldyou?
You know, like you're sittinghere in the planning stages and
doing all this stuff like whatif?
What if I, you know, and Ispent a long time planning and
did all this stuff what if Ididn't even like podcasting?
I mean, obviously I don't, Iwouldn't have considered that a
(28:22):
waste, but at the very end ofthe day, you just never know.
Just do it, try it, try itfirst, put an episode out first,
see how you like the processbefore you you start doing all
that stuff what would you say?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
what?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
would you?
What would you say?
What was something you wish youknew?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
uh for me, I think.
Um, so a lot of the foundersthat I initially had on uh, they
wanted to just like focus ontheir business and they didn't
want to necessarily be seen.
They were okay with being heard.
So probably like the first 20episodes or so, I didn't really
(29:02):
care as much about video.
And then eventually I just hadto tell, like some of my founder
guests, like we're going to bea video podcast, like this is
like for me.
I just had to tell, like someof my founder guests, like we're
going to be a video podcast,like this is like for me.
Like I'm used to engaging withpeople breaking bread.
I think that's part of it.
I feel like that's part of whatdraws people in Yep.
I think the video just takes itover the top.
(29:24):
The audio is good.
You still have to have acaptivating conversation, but
there's something about videoand just seeing people, about
video and just seeing people,and so for me, I wish earlier on
I would have um focused onvideo and figure that piece out
a little bit sooner, because Ithink I'll be that much further
in terms of just like creatingcontent and being comfortable
(29:47):
doing content in these differentways, uh, from a comfort level,
not necessarily an expert.
I don't think I'm ever going tobe a social media expert, yeah,
yeah, but just feelingcomfortable at times I still
have to like come to grips withthat in certain instances.
Yeah, so just embracing videosooner for me would have been
(30:07):
more.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, we were talking off camera, but now I'm
going to video now, four yearsafter the fact, and it is um,
it's tough.
Yeah, I know it's tough.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
It's tough but it's yeah.
So, like you said, it's justlike as you're doing it, just
get it.
Get it, process it, you know,make it a part of your process,
the video piece, and it's goingto be a little bit more work.
And then you talk about videoquality and 720 versus 1080.
I don't know what none of thatmeans.
I'll be honest.
I just want content to go outthat looks a certain way that
(30:44):
you know meets my taste, andthen all the rest will figure it
out.
I'll partner with differentpeople.
That's their expertise, yep,but I've gotten to that point
now, right, where I'mcomfortable with that and not
necessarily, like you weresaying, you were tinkering with
code at one point.
I at first I was probably liketinkering a lot with the.
Well, if I do do video, likehow do I make it good and all
(31:07):
this stuff, and it's just likenah, just getting used to
sitting in front of this camera,being comfortable, having a
conversation with somebody, notlooking all over the place,
which I still have to work onyeah but just being comfortable
doing certain things on video.
The sooner you get to it,probably the better you'll be.
Yep, you know, just think ayear out, two years, three years
(31:27):
, five years out, um, it'll,it'll.
You'll reap the benefits of itfor sure as a podcast, in my
opinion that's true.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's true.
That's good.
That's good.
I'm trying to think what else Iwish I knew I got.
I got one that I wish I knew.
It actually ties into both ofthe things that we've been
talking about, but it's like Iwish I knew that I didn't have
to, like invest so much moneyinto, into, into stuff.
(32:02):
Like, just like what I wassaying earlier, like you don't
even know if you're going tolike podcasting.
You don't even know if you'reyou're going to want to be have
a video platform uh, just avideo platform or just an audio
platform or a mixture of both.
So you know, at the beginning Iwas like looking up mics and
(32:23):
trying to invest in this stuffand having to have all these
headphones and what.
What about the what?
What about when the guestsounds like I got to get lights
and all this other stuff?
And I think when I in thebeginning, because I didn't have
any money, I was actuallyforced to just make it work and
just use a pair of headphonesand stuff like that, not even
(32:49):
using any software, because thiswas before I had a Mac Mac and
I just recorded on my iPad.
You know what I'm saying, andjust doing that.
And so it was.
What's interesting is that,like I just wish I knew, because
it's not that I invested a lotof money in the beginning, but
like I invested an unnecessaryamount of time in that aspect,
(33:12):
rather than actually focusing onthe conversation, having
conversation, um, like, uh,focusing on the craft, rather
than just like all the extrasthat you know, other stuff,
because I was so busy payingattention to, um, paying
attention to, like all theseother folks that have again so
(33:34):
much like money and backing andsupport from organizations,
companies, whatever, rather thanjust realizing I'm a one person
.
I'm one person, um, and I'mliterally doing this as a hobby,
just to have fun.
Like, just have fun, um, uh,yeah, because you'll get there
and to your point, you'll getthere and to your point, you'll
(33:54):
get there to your audio soundingbetter, to your video looking
better and stuff like that.
But like I think the firstthing that needs to be is just
like record, like do the podcastfirst, focus on the craft first
and then move forward.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
So I'm glad that you brought this up up.
You said that you feel like youspent too much time.
I feel like I spent too muchdamn money at first.
Right, I spent a lot of moneyon podcast.
I just started like subscribingand stuff.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm on thisforum, like let me subscribe to
it for like a month or two andthen I cancel it.
But I was just subscribing,it's fine.
(34:41):
It's not free.
It's not free.
But I will say to your point,right though the activity of it,
like the recording of it andjust getting to the nitty-gritty
of it, you can record thatstuff on your hotbed or whatever
device you have, your phone.
You can post it to youtubeyourself.
Yep, you can post it to some ofthe podcasting sites, I think
(35:05):
yourself.
I think, yeah, I'm not surelike individually.
Most people go in like um, likea lipsyn or like a Lipson or
like a Buzzsprout or whatever.
Right, so you can do it a freeway at first, but then when you
start to brand it and kind ofcompare yourself to podcasting
and the industry and all thesethings, then it can get
(35:25):
expensive.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I did a post last year, Ithink it was on well, it's X,
now it's the site.
Site.
I can't stand saying that, butum, I think I broke down like
how much I spent for one andthen at the end of it I was
pretty ashamed of myself.
How much um.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I was spending for one.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I think, on like, like, little tools and
subscriptions or stuff like that.
It was like 50 bucks a month,maybe 60, um, but that stuff
adds up every month.
And then that doesn't includethe one-time cost of like
equipment and like.
Maybe I work with a designerfor a logo or some something
(36:08):
else.
Um, so, um, this hobby yes, asyou label, yeah, which I
appreciate you labeling it, suchhas cost me thousands and
thousands of dollars at thispoint, four or five years in,
I'm glad I made the investmentright, but I probably could have
did certain things like, toyour point, just get a camera in
(36:29):
first, get whatever cheap micyou can and then just like
figure out the rest once you'reum 10, 20, maybe 30 episodes in
yeah, and we're gonna have anepisode where we talk about
resources and stuff like thatmore specifically, because
there's so many resources outthere where you can avoid how
much money we've spent, um, butuh, yeah, I like it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I know I said hobby um, which it was in the
beginning, but like now and Idon't know how you feel about
this, kenny but like this is apart-time job like there's, like
when I'm in a full swing of aseason, um, with between um
editing, um meet with my internfor the show, uh, actually
(37:13):
having recording the podcast, um, or editing the podcast,
everything that goes.
There's so many aspects that gointo the show.
Um, posting, promoting all thatstuff if you want and then add
on top of that, you know,sponsors or support or whatever.
There's all kinds of extrastuff that goes into it.
And then you got subscribers.
So like how do you connect withyour subscribers and make them
(37:35):
feel engaged?
there's all many, all kinds ofaspects of this part-time job.
At this point you know I'msaying like, so I'm in a full
swing of a show.
It could easily, you know, top20 hours a week on top of, like
my, my job.
You know I'm saying like my, mynine to five.
So, um, as much as I, you know,called it a hobby before, like
this thing is no longer a hobby.
I still enjoy and love doing it.
(37:56):
But this is a legit part-timejob.
That's fabulous.
But I didn't get to part-timejob status until three years,
four years.
I didn't see it as a part-timejob until really recently.
But, it is.
It really really is, Especiallynow that it's an aspect of my
business too.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So it's an aspect of of my business too, so um it's,
it's wild.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
It really is wild and it is not free.
Anytime I pitch myself to mylisteners, I'm like y'all, like
this podcast.
The show is not free, like it'snot just time, it's like the
hosting site.
You know, I'm thankful to saythat I've been able to pay my
intern every single month sincehe's been on with me.
But it's like this is all this,that's good yeah this is like
all this extra stuff.
(38:38):
You know, I'm saying um that Ijust didn't realize that went
into it um, so that's a yeah.
I just want to make sure thatthat's clint folks yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Uh, I think we talked about this almost there.
I did um a couple runs of likemerch.
I was just like I'm just gonnago for like the first two or
three seasons.
I'm like buying merch and doingall this other stuff.
I'm like putting pricing on thesite, not knowing like I just
wanted just to give the customerone number that they pay.
(39:13):
I think it was like 40 bucksfor a hoodie or something like
that.
And then I go to the postoffice and they're like yeah,
you gotta pay in the shit, dude,buddy, you know that, all right
, and I'm like what is going on?
This is weird.
Yeah, I didn't know we had to,and the price is big depending
on where you ship it.
Yep, so now I'm like all right,I'm in, I'm not really green on
(39:35):
these hoodies and these hats.
The way I saw it was like, yeah, like um, this thing is not,
it's not cheap yes, when youstart to make it.
Like you say, when it goes froma hobby and you're just like
it's just a passion for you'renot necessarily like too tied to
the cloth, but then, when itcomes, you're spending a
significant amount of hours eachweek.
(39:56):
You know you're reading, withsignificant amount of hours each
week.
You know you're reading with um, creative people helping you
with creative, you may bemeeting with a sponsor, you're
meeting with potential guests.
Like you spend several hours,like you said, up to 20 hours in
any given week.
Then it's like, okay, I have toget some sort of a return for
this because I'm taking timeaway from making money to
(40:16):
support my family.
Yes, uh, so there's like youknow, when it comes to that,
then you start to like, look ata little bit more, not penny
pension, but just like all right, what am I spending my money on
?
Am I really getting value fromhaving this $10 subscription,
$15 subscription every month?
There's four times and not.
You're probably not and you cango without it.
(40:37):
But then, to your point, youmay be sacrificing time,
balancing that time and moneypiece.
Do you want, do you want, tospend the money to have it done
in a shorter time, or are youokay, rolling up your sleeves
for certain stuff and, uh, youknow, keeping that money in your
pocket and just doing somethings yourself yep, yep and Yep
, and like asking, being honest,and asking yourself, like what
(40:58):
can I do myself?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And then you know, at that, at a point where you're
like, further down, where do Ineed to like actually invest
that money in?
Because, honestly, I've gottento a point now, and I'm thankful
that I'm here at this point,where I have extra money, to be
like, all right, I actuallydon't need to do that.
At this point where I haveextra money to be like, alright,
I actually don't need to dothat.
I don't have time to learn this, then try and implement it,
(41:20):
spend hours and hours and hourstrying to do it and then try and
sloppily put it out there.
At this point I'm like there'ssomebody who literally can do
this in a couple hours.
All I gotta do is just spend anhour to break down what I need,
um, and they'll be able to doit very fast um, um that's money
(41:40):
well spent yeah yeahso this, I mean this.
There's the the pros and consof it.
Like you just start like toyour point what you did you were
, you just say it was so good.
It's like you just get wiser,uh, with your money, um, you
start to get not not frugal, butyou, you start to be like you
know, you ask yourself, like youjust start asking yourself do I
actually need to do this?
(42:01):
Do I actually need this?
Um, and what's the roi?
It's a really good, really goodpoint.
Um, yeah, amazing, all right,well, we've been talking for a
while.
I know that we didn't want thisto go too long.
Is there any other things thatyou wish?
You wish you knew?
maybe one more, one more thing Iknow, I've dropped like three
or four, so I'll just let you.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Uh, let you bring yeah, I'll do one final one.
Um, just the power inconnecting with other podcasters
such a good one.
Um, I was on a little bit of anisland.
Yes, I say no this one for last, I hope.
I hope you appreciate that job.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
No, I absolutely do.
Yeah, I'm joking, I'm joking.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, just like.
Connecting with podcastersearlier probably would have
helped me spend less money.
I would have learned some tipsearly on that would have kind of
you know again, my trajectorywould have just been that much
faster.
I would have been able toaccelerate um higher faster, and
(43:04):
so that that's something whereI said at the beginning of the
call every time I talk toanother podcaster I learn
something, like I I havesomething, a new tool or a new
way to approach an interviewthat I can incorporate.
And for the first probably 30episodes, I didn't necessarily
connect with podcasters as muchas I could.
And then, after that point, Iactually was like, hey, I want
(43:25):
to have podcasters on myplatform they can be founders,
but I also want to make sure Ihave some creatives as well that
I can share with my audience.
But in a selfish way, I'mactually learning from them and
how they went about buildingtheir platform, yep.
So yeah, just connecting withother podcasters.
There's tons of value in that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
That's such a good one, that's a really good one to
leave off on our to be likethat last, like wish we knew.
Very similarly, it took me awhile to start connecting with
other podcasters, so I learnedsomething new every single time
I talked to another podder, andthen also without you, and then
you like even a little peekbehind the curtain.
Y'all like we had like a like awhole, like spreadsheet that we
(44:08):
put together and we just likejotted down ideas that we want
to talk about.
We jotted down like resources,um, like other people that we
knew, and just to be able tolike have somebody else to like,
oh, like you use this tool too,like how are you using it?
Or I never heard of it.
It's just, it's just, man, likeit's.
I just it just is easy.
(44:29):
It just is easy.
Yeah, it just makes things somuch easier.
So I love that.
That's a good point, really.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
That's a yeah just as early as possible.
Just connecting.
I know there's some communitiesout there um.
I think, as we have otherepisodes, we'll make sure that
um we kind of highlight some ofthose because there's some
amazing ones that folks can tapinto.
Yep, where you're just not onthe island.
Who wants to?
Like you know, maybe somepeople want that, but the
average person probably doesn'twant to just start from scratch.
(44:56):
Like we want to be able to goto a group of people or a
resource site or something likethat and figure out how to get
the ball rolling.
You know, have the snowballkind of going downhill versus
kind of pushing the rock up.
To the right analogy, I wouldguess.
Why make a mistake on your ownwhen you can learn from somebody
(45:16):
else?
yeah, absolutely, absolutelythat's perfect way to end it off
.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I love it, I love it all.
Right before we close out andleave the final question like
closing question, that I think,um, I don't know, we'll just
round this out really, reallywell, is like kenny, why do you
still podcast?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
and then I'll answer it after you uh, I would say I
still podcast because, um, Ihaven't talked to all the
founders yet that look like meyeah all right.
So there's a lot of founders ofcreating amazing products, uh,
offering amazing solutions totheir communities, um, to
communities that look like meand you, or just underserved
(45:57):
communities in general, and so,you know, as long as there's
founders out there that looklike me and you right, black
founders that are doing amazingthings, I got to figure out how
I can highlight them andspotlight what they're doing.
Maybe it gets to a point youknow, got the the right uh
dollar sign or right amount ofcommas in my bank account where
(46:19):
I can give them investments anddo some of those things as well.
But this is my way of justinvesting in them.
Um, you know, for now, with theresources that I have, and then
as I build and I see them buildright, I think it'll be like a
beneficial situation for me tomake sure that I'm spotlighting
their stories.
I can grow as they grow, and so, yeah, just most for sure, I
(46:42):
haven't talked to all theamazing black founders out there
, so I'm looking for this is acall to all the founders- out
there the black founders outthere, please hit me up.
I'd love to have you on as aguest for the platform.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, no, that's dope .
That's really cool.
I love that.
Go on the show, amazing host.
I had an amazing time when Iwas on there.
Come through, come through,come through.
Let's see why do I still podcast?
I mean, besides the fact that Ilove it, I think that there is
(47:16):
a hunger for myself, but alsofor so many people that just are
exhausted and tired of thenon-productive or unproductive
back and forth that happens atcomment sections.
I think that there are peopleout there that, like you know,
(47:37):
we were talking off camera.
It's just like you know, folks,just folks will lose their mind
and say things they would neversay to a person on the internet
, and for me, that's likedraining.
It's emotionally draining, it'spsychologically draining,
especially when it comes to likethings that have to do with, um
, my blackness, black people, um, uh, or any other person that
(48:02):
has a marginalized identity oflike people just like coming,
just not really willing to likeengage in an actual conversation
, and so, you know, I just likecreating space to like ask
questions, um, to be okay withdoubt and being pushed to think
more critically and think moredeeply and purposely and
(48:24):
intentionally about how we'renavigating the world, and I can
have conversations like that allthe day.
Actually, that is likelife-giving to me.
So, very similarly to you,there are so many amazing and
truly beautiful stories outthere that have not been shared,
that haven't been explored, or,if they have been explored,
they haven't been explored in away that honors the person
(48:52):
that's telling it, honors thestoryteller, and so I want to do
that, and that's what I'm goingto do with some of the themes
and topics that we cover on myshow.
So if you're interested inhaving a conversation like that,
or want to exploreconversations like that, or have
a need and a desire forconversations like that, check
out.
Highly Visible and A LittleMisunderstood.
(49:13):
I would love to interview, loveto interview you.
Have you part of the community,so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, and I'll you know.
Just, I've listened to plentyof Jonathan's episodes and I can
really kind of state like forme, being a black male, right, I
looked at some of your contentand it's like all right, like
Jonathan, is he's notnecessarily handling this, being
a black male, right?
I looked at some of, uh, yourcontent and it's like, all right
, like jonathan, is he's notnecessarily handling this, these
conversations, in a way whereyou know like there's, it's not
(49:44):
clickbait it's not just like,all right, let's just see the
comments and people arguingabout, like, when it comes to
things like what blackmasculinity is, those types of
topics, and you really you do areally good job of.
Hey, here's who I am, like Ican ask questions, but I'm not
necessarily going to askquestions to steer you to think
(50:04):
like me.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, if that makes sense.
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
I appreciate dialogue like that versus we all know
the content that's out there.
When it comes to blackmasculinity in particular, I can
speak to that.
Uh, it is really toxic.
It's so toxic yes, it is likemaybe we can do an episode on
that I don't know, I don't know.
I'm praying if we do episode onit we'll be able to that type
(50:31):
of like energy and that type ofpause I don't think we should we
all know what I'm talking aboutyou go in the comment section
and it's just like the same kindof stereotypical conversation.
I appreciate you for havingconversations that steer us away
from that deliberately Iappreciate you if that makes.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, it does.
I appreciate you, that's soaffirming.
I appreciate you, that's soaffirming.
I appreciate you, brother,appreciate you.
Yeah, yeah, well, this has beenfun.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
This has been a great first talk for me.
Jonathan, I'll pass it over toyou, but I'm definitely looking
forward to sharing more with thefolks about my platform and
your platform and, just you know, giving them a peek of how we
run.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that this is um, thisis just an idea and shout out I
want to just shout you out,kenny, like you came up with
this.
You hit me up.
I was like I want to dosomething like this, like, let's
like, just try, um, and I loveexperimenting, like that's.
I think that that's my word thisyear is just try shit out, try
stuff out, um, and so like, yeah, there's there an agenda, but
(51:37):
it's more of a conversation and,yeah, just a real dialogue
about, about our experiencespotting and hopefully folks get
some.
Actually, I know folks I'm notgoing to say hope, I know folks
got some value out of this andhopefully it's affirming that's
what I'll say.
Hopefully it's affirming andimpactful for them to keep going
, to start whatever.
So, yeah, that's that's all Igot.
(51:59):
I guess you could check out ourshows beyond normal with with
Kenny and then highly visibleand a little misunderstood, with
myself, and I think all of bothof our shows can be found
everywhere.
Right, yours can be foundeverywhere, yeah, so check us
out y'all.
Thanks so much for tapping in.
Appreciate you, appreciate you,appreciate it, peace.
Hey, how's it going?
My name is Kenny Groom.
I am the host of the BeyondNormal podcast.
I've been podcasting forseveral years now.
I'm looking forward to justdiscussing some of the things
I've seen and learned in thisspace.
I'm going to pass it to myfellow podcaster now so he can
give you a quick intro on theamazing things he's doing with
his work.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, what up y'all?
My name is Jonathan Dumas.
I'm also obviously a podcasterof a show called Highly Visible
and A Little Misunderstood.
I've also been podcasting for afew years now.
I'm really excited to dive intoall the learnings, resources
stuff.
We wish we knew all this stuffalong.
(01:06):
You know this thing calledpotting, so really excited to be
here and uh talk and chat andbe real about the process.
Uh, because podcasting yeahpodcasting is really hella hard
um for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So, you know, as we both have been, uh, podcasting
for several years now, thelandscape is always changing,
changing.
But you know, as we weretalking and kind of
brainstorming and just seeinghow far we've come, we thought
it would be, you know, now theperfect time for us to.
You know, just share with theworld, reflect a little bit
around some of those things thatwe've learned throughout the
process.
For those that may be out therelooking to be a podcaster or
(01:41):
interested in getting into thespace, why go there to bump your
head if somebody's there todraw some knowledge, to help you
progress a little?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
faster, yeah, and I would even add, like, for those
who are already podcasting,right, or maybe who's been
podcasted stopped podcastedstopped, like you know.
It's also helpful to hear youknow you're not alone in kind of
like that journey.
You're not alone in like likethe process that we've all like
(02:12):
any podcast who's beenpodcasting for a while has like
felt the things you felt, donethe things you've done all of
the things.
And so, um, I think a big partof some of the conversations we
had off mic um, and that uh willlikely have on on mic uh, is
that, like you know, podcastingis hard, um, and uh, like, the
name of the game is consistency,showing up all those things.
So, um, I can't wait to liketalk more about it, because I do
(02:36):
really love podcasting.
It's so fun to me, it's so funto me.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, the podcasters that I know say the same thing
that jonathan.
Jonathan, it says, the onesthat go more than a couple
episodes, they really do enjoyit.
Uh, to your point, jonathan,like every time I have a
conversation off air with thepodcaster, I learn something.
Yes, right, I'm learning abouta new tool, a new way to to kind
(03:01):
of break up my clips.
I'm learning a new way toengage with my, my guests and,
ultimately, the audience.
And so, to your point, like, uh, the podcasters that are out
there as well already doing it,I think they'll definitely get
some value, uh, from some, fromsome of the uh experiences that
we can allude to a little yepand and like, uh, like, uh,
(03:22):
folks always say, especiallyblack folks, if you.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, when you know, you know, if you know, you know,
and I feel like otherpodcasters know, uh, you know
what I mean.
So, um, uh, one of the thingsthat we didn't do before we dive
into, uh, some of thesequestions that we outlined, uh,
kenny, is we didn't talk about,like, what our shows are about.
So what is your show about?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
um, kenny, you know we're touching on the businesses
, the podcast that we, we bothrun.
So what is your show about,kenny?
You know we're touching on thebusinesses, the podcast that we
both run.
My podcast, the Beyond Normalpodcast, is about essentially
highlighting Black foundersright, the journeys that they're
on.
I know that there's someincredible founders out there
(04:07):
doing, you know, just amazingthings and underserved
communities a lot of times.
And so when you start to thinkabout the, the, the black
business owners that are here,um, you know, in the States and
really around the world, like we, we got to figure out how to
make sure we're we're constantlyshining a light, a spotlight on
their stories, and that was themain reason I started uh, you
know, started the beyond Normalpodcast.
That's like the kind of thelaunching point, the launching
(04:29):
thought, and I can actually justshare real briefly, like just
to let folks know, my very firstguest was a local founder in
the Charlotte area who had adelivery laundry service.
When you think about somethinglike laundry, it's something
that hasn't changed right fordecades, if not centuries.
(04:51):
But all the technology that'sout here, you know, allows
someone doing something Someonemay seem as simple as a laundry
delivery service to bring theirbusiness into 2024.
Technology serves allbusinesses really across the
world, and so, um, you know, I'malways looking for founders
that are out there doing amazingthings being a business owner,
(05:13):
because it's not a it's not aeasy task to found and, uh, run
your own company.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, no, that's cool .
See, look at me almost goinginto podcast host mode because
that's, that's super fun andlike that's a great example of
just, you know, the fulfillingof, like the mission, of your,
your show, of just likesomething so seemingly normal,
um, but you like hear theirstory and you're like, oh, shoot
, like this is not just whateverlike laundry.
(05:41):
You know, I'm saying it's, it'ssomething more like, why did
you decide on laundry?
Um, what like technology islike influencing your business?
How are you pushing it forward?
Um, beyond this kind of like,um, what's the word?
I don't know what we see atface value.
That's, that's really cool,that's.
Yeah, I'm going to go back andlisten to that episode.
Oh, very first.
(06:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that um, oh, cool, I guess I'll go next
.
Um, my show, highly visible, uhand a little misunderstood, for
initially started out as, likea um, a journal.
I was just curious about thepeople on my life, curious about
the people I grew up with, um,and I just wanted to ask them
questions instead of just likethinking I know them, thinking I
(06:23):
know, you know, uh, what theirthoughts are and patterns are,
just because I spend a goodamount of time with them, or, in
some cases, not as much timewith them.
And so it has evolved intosomething more where it's, you
know, having more nuancedconversations about very complex
things.
Nuanced conversations aboutvery complex things.
(06:47):
As I was having theseconversations with my friends,
family, people that I met on theinternet that became friends
and family, I started to realizelike folks are hungry.
Very similar to what youdiscovered, kenny, is like the
stories and the why behind someof the bigger headlines, right
Behind some of the big thingsthat are going on in society,
(07:07):
the things that we navigate onan everyday basis but sometimes
feel uncomfortable around havingthose conversations or don't
know how to have thoseconversations in a way that
honors some yourself and theother person that you're talking
to, and so I just decided tohave more direct conversations
about that um and be honest andum, and take people seriously
(07:29):
about what they're saying, andit's been really cool to see the
show transformed from this likediary of myself, this open
diary and um, breaking downconcepts and I'm a policy nerd
and history nerd and stuff likethat so breaking down these
concepts for folks and it nowbeing just like full-on
conversations with you know,beyond just my friends and
family, um, uh, but people thatI'm meeting online that are like
(07:52):
these cool experts, have thesedope stories, um, and are
willing to uh, chill in the grayum and navigate that space
together and really question thewhy behind we do the things
that we do.
So it's been, it's been a reallycool and fun journey over the
past uh, few years, uh, to dothis okay that's dope, like you
touched on.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, two things there.
This is me wearing my podcast orhost at like uh, jonathan was a
guest, oh yeah, so I feel like,as you were talking, it brought
back some of the memories youknow, going through our
conversation for the pod.
But then, like you thoughtabout, like you know, people
(08:31):
telling like their honeststories, authentic stories, Like
it doesn't really get morehonest than being on a podcast,
right, Like you could probablygo and see the situation with
like this full script.
Like you could probably go andsee the situation with like this
, this full script, and then,for whatever reason, once we get
the record button, like allthat goes out the window.
(08:52):
And then you're trying tofigure out, like how can I, you
know, exhibit my true self in anaudio format?
Right, For those true kind ofdiehard podcast fans.
But now, you know, podcastingis kind of blurred the lines
between audio and video contentRight.
But you got to have honestdialogue for it to be something
(09:13):
that resonates people.
And then the second thing isthat for you again this is me
wearing my podcast hat but thepodcast fits within your
business right.
And so you had your businessand now you have your podcast
and your podcast is helping yourbusiness grow.
That's another cool thing thatyou know.
That's really an underrated wayto think about podcasting.
(09:37):
That you know I've seen somepeople tap into and really
unlock you know some business,some revenue behind having you
know content in the form of apodcast.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
It's been a really interestingjourney because I'm like a large
part of that was even, you know, think about how am I going to
make these like stories andthoughts or whatever, integrate
into the work that I'm doing, tothe work that I'm doing and
when I actually really likethought about it.
(10:08):
It was so easy because folkslike desire authenticity and
talking about life and strugglesand like fears and, you know,
work and just all theintersecting ways of being like
folks want to hear and talkabout it and so, like I've been
able to use my pod as a resourcebecause I just have like legit,
(10:29):
like cool-ass people that arewilling to have amazing
conversations and they just sohappen to be, you know, a
professor, they just so happento be an author, they just so
happen to be X, y and Z.
But what's cool and I felt thiseven when you, I was on your
show and some of the otherepisodes that I've listened to
is, again, it's like we'reseeing and talking and
(10:51):
connecting with these peoplethat like on the surface, we get
like their bio, you know,founder, whatever business owner
do, xyz, um but the way that weengage with them is actually
like their humanity first, liketheir story first, um, and
that's the part that I really,yeah, I love, um, I love, and
it's taken me a little bit toget to like landing or not
(11:13):
landing there, but getting thereto be able to do that as a host
.
But once we, once I've landedthat and gotten that um a little
bit better, it's just been thethe to your point.
The conversation is just likerich.
It's so full um and fun likepeople.
Just it's wild how like deeppeople are willing to go when
you hit that record recordbutton.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It's wild, it really is yeah yeah I don't know if
we'll talk about that, uh, backhere on this episode, but like
what you just touched on at theend, like people go really deep
and they'll just start talkingand they don't know like they've
been talking the guest I'mspeaking about.
Like they don't know they'vebeen talking for like five
minutes straight, yeah, and then, as opposed, you gotta kind of
(11:56):
like find a way to like allright stop stop giving me all
the content at one time likethis is my show like this is my
show.
I understand you're here toshare your story so I kind of
got to shut up.
But I want to interject andkind of break this up a little.
Yep, yep, but people aresurprised like once again that
record button gets it like theyjust start letting it all out
(12:18):
there and it's really authenticconversation versus you know,
like you were saying like justseeing the title of founder
somewhere.
We go to people's LinkedIn andit's like it doesn't look like
they've ever made a mistake.
Like how can you tell?
Like they like where were the,where were the lumps gained?
Right, they fall and bump theirhead and pivot Like it's really
(12:39):
hard to decipher that a lot oftimes on social media because
you just see like this finishedproduct, right.
But for podcasting in particular, it's one of the mediums, I
think, where people don't justwant to hear like the end of,
they don't just want to hear thefinished product, right, they
want the story, they want tohear the journey, they want to
(13:00):
hear all these things.
Like the most listened topodcasts are like murder
mysteries, right, like that's nosurprise.
Like people really want to hearall these things.
Like the most listened topodcasts are like murder
mysteries, right.
Like that's no surprise.
Like people really want to heara story.
They want to, like they want totake the roller coaster ride
with you.
They don't want to necessarilyto your point, like you were
saying just see, oh, thisperson's a founder, okay, yeah,
how did they get to that?
Like, what was their journey?
(13:21):
Why?
Why are they interested inentrepreneurship?
Like there's so much below thesurface, you can peel that onion
back and that's like the,that's like the movie, the movie
magic.
Like that's what makeseverybody's life somewhat of a a
movie, a mini movie or a fullyep, yep, that's good.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
We're getting into all kinds of like these, so it's
so fun.
No, we're good, we're good, Iknow that's see, this is exactly
why I wrote it out before westarted, because then I knew we
were gonna go all kinds ofplaces, um.
But, like, this is not the onlyrecording, though, too.
We're gonna get into all ofthat in like separate, separate
posts too.
(13:58):
Um, but I would, I mean, Ithink I would want, I want to
shift gears just a tiny bit, uh,because we touched on some of
the things we're going to besharing now a little bit
throughout, like those, thoselittle spills that we had.
But I think a good question islike, why do we get into potty?
You know what I'm saying.
Like, again, we said it earlier.
(14:19):
But like you know, if I were toask you, kenny, like why did
you decide to do a podcast?
Like, why that, why this medium?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
to for me it was.
I came from a work environmentwhere I was like interacting
with people in person, so sales,like it was like sales and like
data-driven conversations andmeeting with these really big
(14:46):
businesses, like big retailers,all this other stuff, right,
really cool stuff like traveling, all the whining and dining
clients and all this stuff.
And so the pandemic hit andthen it was like I'm just at
home all day, like I'm on 18Zoom calls.
I'm not necessarily likeinteracting with business owners
the way I was before, in person, kind of breaking bread.
(15:10):
And so I had to find justdifferent ways to outside of the
corporate rigid structure tohave conversations with them
where they can kind of like youknow, sit back a little bit,
take their time off, like notjust be so uptight on this zoom
call, yeah, like we were justzooming the zoom and like zoom
crazy.
Um, I understood that at thetime and so I was like, well,
(15:32):
let me see if I can startreaching back out to the
business owners in my network.
And I found out that a lot ofthem went out of business like
no surprise, due to the pandemic.
Right, everything was on holdat least right, yeah, from a
business, but the ones that wereopen within my network.
I was like, well, how are youdoing this?
Like you know, the mediaoutlets are saying it's the end
(15:53):
of the world, like times arethis.
Is this new paramount shift?
Like how are you actually ableto keep your business open?
And then it started to.
I started to dig a little bitand have conversations with them
and they were like, hey, likethis is in me, this is my
journey.
My journey has got prepared mefor these types of situations,
(16:14):
the pandemic being one of thosesituations where I'm just built
for this, like I understand it,like I'm here for it, like I'm
up to the challenge.
Um, and that was something that,like, I admired and I was like,
like, okay, we got it.
I got to figure out, like, howto bottle this, like put it, put
it in a format so other peoplecan listen, because we, with all
these businesses being, youknow, destroyed, essentially, uh
(16:35):
, we need more businesses to becreated, and so we'll probably
need more new entrepreneurs tofill that gap that's left behind
by some of those folks that youknow they cash out or they're
just not up to, they're not,they're not thinking that way
anymore in the entrepreneurmindset, and so that was really
like the launching pad for me.
I think I bought like a zoommembership or something like
(16:56):
that and then the rest ishistory, yeah.
But that was kind of thelaunching pad for me and why I
got into potting as a medium Icould quickly buy a membership
for and just start figuring outhow to put these stories in in
the content I could share withothers no, that's cool, that's
really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I like that.
I like that a lot.
Um, hmm, what about you?
Uh, I don't know.
I like I I've been a big fan ofpodcasts for a minute.
Like I don't remember the.
I don't remember, like when Ifirst started hearing podcasts.
I think it was like 2014,.
I think, um, cause I had a jobwhere I was traveling a lot and
(17:38):
I don't know who introduced meto a pod.
It might've been an article Igot or something, but I just
started like just um, devouringthese podcasts.
Um, uh, npr politics wasactually probably like my in
like initiation.
Again, I said I was like apolicy nerd, political nerd, and
so a lot of fascinating thingswere going on 2014, 2015.
(18:02):
So I was like just eating, sojust just always, constantly,
and then I love to like learnand so I just found like
podcasting was so easy to do onthe go.
So it's like, you know, if I'mon my way, you know I'm on a
business trip and I'm travelingand I gotta drive, be in a car
for like an hour and a half, allright.
Well, you know, um, I'mlistening to music or I'm a, you
(18:23):
know, listen to a podcast.
Um, and nine times out of ten,I was listening to a podcast, um
, just keeping me company, um,and yeah, I just started like
expanding it and I just startedrealizing within myself like how
much I was starting to learnabout the world and like
expanding my horizons.
Because I think at that time Iwas like Really really lonely,
(18:46):
like as far as, like you know,being around other black people
and all sorts of stuff, likejust I was at a very lonely time
in my, in my life and like Ijust kept hearing.
I was like just listen to allthese black voices doing dope
stuff and I'm like I want to betheir friend and hearing their
stories and actually learningabout other people that I've
never interacted with before,and just slowly but surely felt
(19:08):
my mind like expanding,expanding and seeing how like
huge the world is.
My mind like expanding,expanding and seeing how like
huge the world is and, and so,similar to you, like you know,
pandemic hit I'm still listeningto a lot of podcasts and then
I'm just, like you know, like Ihad this idea of like I could do
this, you know, like yearsbefore, and I was like I could
(19:30):
do this, I could do this, and Isat on it for two or three years
, pandemic hit.
You know, boredom hit.
I wasn't doing nothing and Iwas like I dusted off that
journal, that I wrote all theseideas out and, you know, I
started recording.
I did it, I tried it and it wasso interesting about how much I
(19:50):
loved it and what's.
The other interesting part is,like I didn't.
I had one episode, uh, Irecorded four or five episodes
that never went live.
Like I recorded them and theysounded bad to me so I just
stopped, um, and again two years, two, three years later, um,
you know, in the house, I waslike I'm gonna really invest
some time to like learn how todo this.
(20:11):
Well, um, and uh, I recordedand then actually just press
send, like I just was like Igotta just get it out.
Um, and the rest is similar.
The rest is history.
Like, um, I really just wantedto.
I was curious, um, about myfriends and family and I was
(20:31):
like there's no way that I'm theonly person that feels this way
, um, that has these questions,that want to know more about the
people that are in our lives.
Um, because we really did itlike we don't know what we miss,
um, so, yeah, that's, that'sreally like.
The heart of it is like I wascurious, um, I thought I could
do it and, a fun fact, growingup I always wanted to be radio
(20:52):
host and it wasn't until likeyear three, like I was doing it
for three years, and last yearwas the first time I realized
I'm like.
I'm like actually living out adream that I wanted and it's
like when I was a kid, and it'sjust so.
It's really wild that I get todo this and I'm having so much
(21:13):
fun doing it.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You still have the original four or five episodes.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
They're probably somewhere.
I don't know if I can bringmyself to listen back to them.
They're probably somewhere.
One of them.
Fun fact was that the file gotcorrupted, so I spent an entire
weekend trying to learn code toum and I was able to do it.
It was funny, I was able to doit.
(21:41):
But um, yeah, those episodesare somewhere.
They're probably fine.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was probably being, you know, over critical, but um
, yeah, yeah, man yeah, that'swhat I was alluding to is, like
you said, like you launched itwhen you were just like I'm
gonna record it and hit thescene, like I just I'm not even
gonna like worry about it.
Like I knew my first couplepods in terms of, like, audio
(22:06):
and video quality, they weretrash.
It was like the zoom, zoompanda, the zoom mania, right,
and so everybody was like justget a zoom and start recording
stuff.
And I went that route and itwas just like that's not the
preferred tool for podcasting,but it at least like, like you
said, it just gave me all.
Right, let me just keep pushing, let me see if I really like
(22:29):
this enough to put in the time.
Like you, like you talked about, you recorded four or five
episodes and then you went awayfrom it because you were unsure.
I didn't even give myself thetime yeah because I'm pretty
sure it's not a reason just notto do yep, yep, no, that's good
you can't connect to.
I'm not sure I would have hadthe.
Yeah, I think I would have beenfine if I would have recorded
(22:52):
five episodes and I would neverput them out.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I would have been done I I honestly is the
pandemic, bro, like it reallywas a pandemic, honestly,
because if I didn't, if I wasnot bored, like you know, at
home, having to stay at home, um, I probably would have never
came back to it.
It probably just would havebeen one of those things that
stuck on the shelf, um, maybe Iwould have did it.
(23:14):
But you know, the job I had wascool.
I actually was enjoying it.
The reason why I even was liketrying to do something different
and potting was because I gotlike, not because I just you
know, let's do a lot of potters,you know I could do this it was
because, like, I didn't like myjob at the time, like at that
first go-around, I needed somekind of creative outlet.
(23:36):
Like it was just, oh my gosh.
And so, you know, yeah, it wasa pandemic, for sure, I honestly
think it was a pandemic.
I needed some kind of hope,yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I can relate to that.
That was part of mine.
I needed something else tofigure out how to bond with
people the way I was accustomedto.
Because the Zoom.
I'm sorry if I'm slanderingZoom.
For all the Zoom lovers outthere it destroys me being on
back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Video conferencing calls with, like this, this very
generic agenda, reviewingPowerPoint presentations.
Everything is like cookiecutter.
We're just telling each otherthe same information over and,
over and over.
I had to figure out a way.
All right, I'm going to be inZoom all day.
Let me figure out how to getsome creative output on it.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to like what you were
saying right, all right, I'mgoing to be in Zoom all day, let
me figure out how to get somecreative output on it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to what you were saying,
right, where?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
work wasn't doing, my life force went down as you
started listing all that stuffout.
Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I just started getting drained.
That was so crushing that wasreally so crushing.
I'm glad that somebody elsefelt the way I felt that way
about it.
So, like that brings me to allright, you recorded some
episodes, you went away from it.
Now you're back with it, you're, you're feeling good, like you
(25:06):
get a real, a real good energyof busting, podcasting.
Now, like, what do you, what doyou wish you knew, like when
you originally started thisprocess.
Now that you have all thisinformation, yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Well, I'll just start with one thing and maybe we can
go back and forth on like thethings that we wish we knew.
But the the first one is likeit goes back to like why I
didn't post those episodes.
Um, the first four or fiveepisodes that I had is like I
wish I knew that it didn't haveto be perfect.
You know, I'm saying like, um,I think I fooled myself a lot of
(25:45):
the times and maybe even folksthat are new or even that are
that are podcasting now, um,that like an episode has to be
perfect, that like, um, editinghas to be perfect, sound quality
has to be perfect, um, justeverything has to be like a
certain way in order for folksto like vibe with it.
And it's so interesting that youknow some of these podcasts I
(26:08):
listen to that are huge.
You know, like I love um, uh,higher learning, uh, van lathan
and rachel lindsey, like I lovethat podcast.
I've been listening to thatpodcast sometimes and there's
like editing skips, there'sstuff that's messed up, there's
all kinds of stuff and they gotall kinds of money back in their
show and it's huge.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
And then I sit there.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I'm like I don't care about that.
Like they're hilarious.
I learned something it's agreat show, it's one of my
favorite shows.
You know what I'm saying, andso like I wish I would have
known that.
You know four years ago when Istarted, that it didn't have to
be perfect, it could just be toshow up um and try your best,
and it'll get better with timeyeah, that's, that's, that's
(26:46):
good.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And, like you mentioned, in that that show
there's like the shows that weknow are like the kind of the
pinnacle of podcasting, right,like they're the ones making,
you know, the most money.
Probably they have the biggestaudience is, I think I embrace,
like here's how I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it my way it's notnecessarily going to be perfect
.
(27:06):
You can probably buy a moreexpensive camera, yep, or
microphone always.
You can always spend money onlike that type of stuff, but
once your quality gets to apoint that resonates with your
audience, um, it's good like it.
As perfect as it needs to be,you know, is the way that I like
to think about it, but that'swhat you just spoke to.
(27:27):
I've spoken to a lot of peoplethat tried podcasting and then,
like you said, they're like Ididn't look, like what I'm
seeing the videos that aregetting the millions of views
online and it's like you'reprobably not going to get that
right out the gate.
It's not going to be thisperfect, this perfect world.
It's really like more of like ajournal, like you mentioned at
(27:48):
first, like that's a.
That's a really good analogy, Ithink, for, uh, what podcasting
starts out, as for most people,and then it morphs into
something else once you getother hands in the pot and
people wanting to throw money atyou.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know who's
to say.
You actually don't like potting.
You know I'm saying why wouldyou?
You know, like you're sittinghere in the planning stages and
doing all this stuff like whatif?
What if I, you know, and Ispent a long time planning and
did all this stuff what if Ididn't even like podcasting?
I mean, obviously I don't, Iwouldn't have considered that a
(28:22):
waste, but at the very end ofthe day, you just never know.
Just do it, try it, try itfirst, put an episode out first,
see how you like the processbefore you you start doing all
that stuff what would you say?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
what?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
would you?
What would you say?
What was something you wish youknew?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
uh for me, I think.
Um, so a lot of the foundersthat I initially had on uh, they
wanted to just like focus ontheir business and they didn't
want to necessarily be seen.
They were okay with being heard.
So probably like the first 20episodes or so, I didn't really
(29:02):
care as much about video.
And then eventually I just hadto tell, like some of my founder
guests, like we're going to bea video podcast, like this is
like for me.
I just had to tell, like someof my founder guests, like we're
going to be a video podcast,like this is like for me.
Like I'm used to engaging withpeople breaking bread.
I think that's part of it.
I feel like that's part of whatdraws people in Yep.
I think the video just takes itover the top.
(29:24):
The audio is good.
You still have to have acaptivating conversation, but
there's something about videoand just seeing people, about
video and just seeing people,and so for me, I wish earlier on
I would have um focused onvideo and figure that piece out
a little bit sooner, because Ithink I'll be that much further
in terms of just like creatingcontent and being comfortable
(29:47):
doing content in these differentways, uh, from a comfort level,
not necessarily an expert.
I don't think I'm ever going tobe a social media expert, yeah,
yeah, but just feelingcomfortable at times I still
have to like come to grips withthat in certain instances.
Yeah, so just embracing videosooner for me would have been
(30:07):
more.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, we were talking off camera, but now I'm
going to video now, four yearsafter the fact, and it is um,
it's tough.
Yeah, I know it's tough.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
It's tough but it's yeah.
So, like you said, it's justlike as you're doing it, just
get it.
Get it, process it, you know,make it a part of your process,
the video piece, and it's goingto be a little bit more work.
And then you talk about videoquality and 720 versus 1080.
I don't know what none of thatmeans.
I'll be honest.
I just want content to go outthat looks a certain way that
(30:44):
you know meets my taste, andthen all the rest will figure it
out.
I'll partner with differentpeople.
That's their expertise, yep,but I've gotten to that point
now, right, where I'mcomfortable with that and not
necessarily, like you weresaying, you were tinkering with
code at one point.
I at first I was probably liketinkering a lot with the.
Well, if I do do video, likehow do I make it good and all
(31:07):
this stuff, and it's just likenah, just getting used to
sitting in front of this camera,being comfortable, having a
conversation with somebody, notlooking all over the place,
which I still have to work onyeah but just being comfortable
doing certain things on video.
The sooner you get to it,probably the better you'll be.
Yep, you know, just think ayear out, two years, three years
(31:27):
, five years out, um, it'll,it'll.
You'll reap the benefits of itfor sure as a podcast, in my
opinion that's true.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's true.
That's good.
That's good.
I'm trying to think what else Iwish I knew I got.
I got one that I wish I knew.
It actually ties into both ofthe things that we've been
talking about, but it's like Iwish I knew that I didn't have
to, like invest so much moneyinto, into, into stuff.
(32:02):
Like, just like what I wassaying earlier, like you don't
even know if you're going tolike podcasting.
You don't even know if you'reyou're going to want to be have
a video platform uh, just avideo platform or just an audio
platform or a mixture of both.
So you know, at the beginning Iwas like looking up mics and
(32:23):
trying to invest in this stuffand having to have all these
headphones and what.
What about the what?
What about when the guestsounds like I got to get lights
and all this other stuff?
And I think when I in thebeginning, because I didn't have
any money, I was actuallyforced to just make it work and
just use a pair of headphonesand stuff like that, not even
(32:49):
using any software, because thiswas before I had a Mac Mac and
I just recorded on my iPad.
You know what I'm saying, andjust doing that.
And so it was.
What's interesting is that,like I just wish I knew, because
it's not that I invested a lotof money in the beginning, but
like I invested an unnecessaryamount of time in that aspect,
(33:12):
rather than actually focusing onthe conversation, having
conversation, um, like, uh,focusing on the craft, rather
than just like all the extrasthat you know, other stuff,
because I was so busy payingattention to, um, paying
attention to, like all theseother folks that have again so
(33:34):
much like money and backing andsupport from organizations,
companies, whatever, rather thanjust realizing I'm a one person
.
I'm one person, um, and I'mliterally doing this as a hobby,
just to have fun.
Like, just have fun, um, uh,yeah, because you'll get there
and to your point, you'll getthere and to your point, you'll
(33:54):
get there to your audio soundingbetter, to your video looking
better and stuff like that.
But like I think the firstthing that needs to be is just
like record, like do the podcastfirst, focus on the craft first
and then move forward.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
So I'm glad that you brought this up up.
You said that you feel like youspent too much time.
I feel like I spent too muchdamn money at first.
Right, I spent a lot of moneyon podcast.
I just started like subscribingand stuff.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm on thisforum, like let me subscribe to
it for like a month or two andthen I cancel it.
But I was just subscribing,it's fine.
(34:41):
It's not free.
It's not free.
But I will say to your point,right though the activity of it,
like the recording of it andjust getting to the nitty-gritty
of it, you can record thatstuff on your hotbed or whatever
device you have, your phone.
You can post it to youtubeyourself.
Yep, you can post it to some ofthe podcasting sites, I think
(35:05):
yourself.
I think, yeah, I'm not surelike individually.
Most people go in like um, likea lipsyn or like a Lipson or
like a Buzzsprout or whatever.
Right, so you can do it a freeway at first, but then when you
start to brand it and kind ofcompare yourself to podcasting
and the industry and all thesethings, then it can get
(35:25):
expensive.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I did a post last year, Ithink it was on well, it's X,
now it's the site.
Site.
I can't stand saying that, butum, I think I broke down like
how much I spent for one andthen at the end of it I was
pretty ashamed of myself.
How much um.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I was spending for one.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I think, on like, like, little tools and
subscriptions or stuff like that.
It was like 50 bucks a month,maybe 60, um, but that stuff
adds up every month.
And then that doesn't includethe one-time cost of like
equipment and like.
Maybe I work with a designerfor a logo or some something
(36:08):
else.
Um, so, um, this hobby yes, asyou label, yeah, which I
appreciate you labeling it, suchhas cost me thousands and
thousands of dollars at thispoint, four or five years in,
I'm glad I made the investmentright, but I probably could have
did certain things like, toyour point, just get a camera in
(36:29):
first, get whatever cheap micyou can and then just like
figure out the rest once you'reum 10, 20, maybe 30 episodes in
yeah, and we're gonna have anepisode where we talk about
resources and stuff like thatmore specifically, because
there's so many resources outthere where you can avoid how
much money we've spent, um, butuh, yeah, I like it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I know I said hobby um, which it was in the
beginning, but like now and Idon't know how you feel about
this, kenny but like this is apart-time job like there's, like
when I'm in a full swing of aseason, um, with between um
editing, um meet with my internfor the show, uh, actually
(37:13):
having recording the podcast, um, or editing the podcast,
everything that goes.
There's so many aspects that gointo the show.
Um, posting, promoting all thatstuff if you want and then add
on top of that, you know,sponsors or support or whatever.
There's all kinds of extrastuff that goes into it.
And then you got subscribers.
So like how do you connect withyour subscribers and make them
(37:35):
feel engaged?
there's all many, all kinds ofaspects of this part-time job.
At this point you know I'msaying like, so I'm in a full
swing of a show.
It could easily, you know, top20 hours a week on top of, like
my, my job.
You know I'm saying like my, mynine to five.
So, um, as much as I, you know,called it a hobby before, like
this thing is no longer a hobby.
I still enjoy and love doing it.
(37:56):
But this is a legit part-timejob.
That's fabulous.
But I didn't get to part-timejob status until three years,
four years.
I didn't see it as a part-timejob until really recently.
But, it is.
It really really is, Especiallynow that it's an aspect of my
business too.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So it's an aspect of of my business too, so um it's,
it's wild.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
It really is wild and it is not free.
Anytime I pitch myself to mylisteners, I'm like y'all, like
this podcast.
The show is not free, like it'snot just time, it's like the
hosting site.
You know, I'm thankful to saythat I've been able to pay my
intern every single month sincehe's been on with me.
But it's like this is all this,that's good yeah this is like
all this extra stuff.
(38:38):
You know, I'm saying um that Ijust didn't realize that went
into it um, so that's a yeah.
I just want to make sure thatthat's clint folks yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Uh, I think we talked about this almost there.
I did um a couple runs of likemerch.
I was just like I'm just gonnago for like the first two or
three seasons.
I'm like buying merch and doingall this other stuff.
I'm like putting pricing on thesite, not knowing like I just
wanted just to give the customerone number that they pay.
(39:13):
I think it was like 40 bucksfor a hoodie or something like
that.
And then I go to the postoffice and they're like yeah,
you gotta pay in the shit, dude,buddy, you know that, all right
, and I'm like what is going on?
This is weird.
Yeah, I didn't know we had to,and the price is big depending
on where you ship it.
Yep, so now I'm like all right,I'm in, I'm not really green on
(39:35):
these hoodies and these hats.
The way I saw it was like, yeah, like um, this thing is not,
it's not cheap yes, when youstart to make it.
Like you say, when it goes froma hobby and you're just like
it's just a passion for you'renot necessarily like too tied to
the cloth, but then, when itcomes, you're spending a
significant amount of hours eachweek.
(39:56):
You know you're reading, withsignificant amount of hours each
week.
You know you're reading with um, creative people helping you
with creative, you may bemeeting with a sponsor, you're
meeting with potential guests.
Like you spend several hours,like you said, up to 20 hours in
any given week.
Then it's like, okay, I have toget some sort of a return for
this because I'm taking timeaway from making money to
(40:16):
support my family.
Yes, uh, so there's like youknow, when it comes to that,
then you start to like, look ata little bit more, not penny
pension, but just like all right, what am I spending my money on
?
Am I really getting value fromhaving this $10 subscription,
$15 subscription every month?
There's four times and not.
You're probably not and you cango without it.
(40:37):
But then, to your point, youmay be sacrificing time,
balancing that time and moneypiece.
Do you want, do you want, tospend the money to have it done
in a shorter time, or are youokay, rolling up your sleeves
for certain stuff and, uh, youknow, keeping that money in your
pocket and just doing somethings yourself yep, yep and Yep
, and like asking, being honest,and asking yourself, like what
(40:58):
can I do myself?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And then you know, at that, at a point where you're
like, further down, where do Ineed to like actually invest
that money in?
Because, honestly, I've gottento a point now, and I'm thankful
that I'm here at this point,where I have extra money, to be
like, all right, I actuallydon't need to do that.
At this point where I haveextra money to be like, alright,
I actually don't need to dothat.
I don't have time to learn this, then try and implement it,
(41:20):
spend hours and hours and hourstrying to do it and then try and
sloppily put it out there.
At this point I'm like there'ssomebody who literally can do
this in a couple hours.
All I gotta do is just spend anhour to break down what I need,
um, and they'll be able to doit very fast um, um that's money
(41:40):
well spent yeah yeahso this, I mean this.
There's the the pros and consof it.
Like you just start like toyour point what you did you were
, you just say it was so good.
It's like you just get wiser,uh, with your money, um, you
start to get not not frugal, butyou, you start to be like you
know, you ask yourself, like youjust start asking yourself do I
actually need to do this?
(42:01):
Do I actually need this?
Um, and what's the roi?
It's a really good, really goodpoint.
Um, yeah, amazing, all right,well, we've been talking for a
while.
I know that we didn't want thisto go too long.
Is there any other things thatyou wish?
You wish you knew?
maybe one more, one more thing Iknow, I've dropped like three
or four, so I'll just let you.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Uh, let you bring yeah, I'll do one final one.
Um, just the power inconnecting with other podcasters
such a good one.
Um, I was on a little bit of anisland.
Yes, I say no this one for last, I hope.
I hope you appreciate that job.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
No, I absolutely do.
Yeah, I'm joking, I'm joking.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, just like.
Connecting with podcastersearlier probably would have
helped me spend less money.
I would have learned some tipsearly on that would have kind of
you know again, my trajectorywould have just been that much
faster.
I would have been able toaccelerate um higher faster, and
(43:04):
so that that's something whereI said at the beginning of the
call every time I talk toanother podcaster I learn
something, like I I havesomething, a new tool or a new
way to approach an interviewthat I can incorporate.
And for the first probably 30episodes, I didn't necessarily
connect with podcasters as muchas I could.
And then, after that point, Iactually was like, hey, I want
(43:25):
to have podcasters on myplatform they can be founders,
but I also want to make sure Ihave some creatives as well that
I can share with my audience.
But in a selfish way, I'mactually learning from them and
how they went about buildingtheir platform, yep.
So yeah, just connecting withother podcasters.
There's tons of value in that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
That's such a good one, that's a really good one to
leave off on our to be likethat last, like wish we knew.
Very similarly, it took me awhile to start connecting with
other podcasters, so I learnedsomething new every single time
I talked to another podder, andthen also without you, and then
you like even a little peekbehind the curtain.
Y'all like we had like a like awhole, like spreadsheet that we
(44:08):
put together and we just likejotted down ideas that we want
to talk about.
We jotted down like resources,um, like other people that we
knew, and just to be able tolike have somebody else to like,
oh, like you use this tool too,like how are you using it?
Or I never heard of it.
It's just, it's just, man, likeit's.
I just it just is easy.
(44:29):
It just is easy.
Yeah, it just makes things somuch easier.
So I love that.
That's a good point, really.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
That's a yeah just as early as possible.
Just connecting.
I know there's some communitiesout there um.
I think, as we have otherepisodes, we'll make sure that
um we kind of highlight some ofthose because there's some
amazing ones that folks can tapinto.
Yep, where you're just not onthe island.
Who wants to?
Like you know, maybe somepeople want that, but the
average person probably doesn'twant to just start from scratch.
(44:56):
Like we want to be able to goto a group of people or a
resource site or something likethat and figure out how to get
the ball rolling.
You know, have the snowballkind of going downhill versus
kind of pushing the rock up.
To the right analogy, I wouldguess.
Why make a mistake on your ownwhen you can learn from somebody
(45:16):
else?
yeah, absolutely, absolutelythat's perfect way to end it off
.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I love it, I love it all.
Right before we close out andleave the final question like
closing question, that I think,um, I don't know, we'll just
round this out really, reallywell, is like kenny, why do you
still podcast?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
and then I'll answer it after you uh, I would say I
still podcast because, um, Ihaven't talked to all the
founders yet that look like meyeah all right.
So there's a lot of founders ofcreating amazing products, uh,
offering amazing solutions totheir communities, um, to
communities that look like meand you, or just underserved
(45:57):
communities in general, and so,you know, as long as there's
founders out there that looklike me and you right, black
founders that are doing amazingthings, I got to figure out how
I can highlight them andspotlight what they're doing.
Maybe it gets to a point youknow, got the the right uh
dollar sign or right amount ofcommas in my bank account where
(46:19):
I can give them investments anddo some of those things as well.
But this is my way of justinvesting in them.
Um, you know, for now, with theresources that I have, and then
as I build and I see them buildright, I think it'll be like a
beneficial situation for me tomake sure that I'm spotlighting
their stories.
I can grow as they grow, and so, yeah, just most for sure, I
(46:42):
haven't talked to all theamazing black founders out there
, so I'm looking for this is acall to all the founders- out
there the black founders outthere, please hit me up.
I'd love to have you on as aguest for the platform.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, no, that's dope .
That's really cool.
I love that.
Go on the show, amazing host.
I had an amazing time when Iwas on there.
Come through, come through,come through.
Let's see why do I still podcast?
I mean, besides the fact that Ilove it, I think that there is
(47:16):
a hunger for myself, but alsofor so many people that just are
exhausted and tired of thenon-productive or unproductive
back and forth that happens atcomment sections.
I think that there are peopleout there that, like you know,
(47:37):
we were talking off camera.
It's just like you know, folks,just folks will lose their mind
and say things they would neversay to a person on the internet
, and for me, that's likedraining.
It's emotionally draining, it'spsychologically draining,
especially when it comes to likethings that have to do with, um
, my blackness, black people, um, uh, or any other person that
(48:02):
has a marginalized identity oflike people just like coming,
just not really willing to likeengage in an actual conversation
, and so, you know, I just likecreating space to like ask
questions, um, to be okay withdoubt and being pushed to think
more critically and think moredeeply and purposely and
(48:24):
intentionally about how we'renavigating the world, and I can
have conversations like that allthe day.
Actually, that is likelife-giving to me.
So, very similarly to you,there are so many amazing and
truly beautiful stories outthere that have not been shared,
that haven't been explored, or,if they have been explored,
they haven't been explored in away that honors the person
(48:52):
that's telling it, honors thestoryteller, and so I want to do
that, and that's what I'm goingto do with some of the themes
and topics that we cover on myshow.
So if you're interested inhaving a conversation like that,
or want to exploreconversations like that, or have
a need and a desire forconversations like that, check
out.
Highly Visible and A LittleMisunderstood.
(49:13):
I would love to interview, loveto interview you.
Have you part of the community,so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, and I'll you know.
Just, I've listened to plentyof Jonathan's episodes and I can
really kind of state like forme, being a black male, right, I
looked at some of your contentand it's like all right, like
Jonathan, is he's notnecessarily handling this, being
a black male, right?
I looked at some of, uh, yourcontent and it's like, all right
, like jonathan, is he's notnecessarily handling this, these
conversations, in a way whereyou know like there's, it's not
(49:44):
clickbait it's not just like,all right, let's just see the
comments and people arguingabout, like, when it comes to
things like what blackmasculinity is, those types of
topics, and you really you do areally good job of.
Hey, here's who I am, like Ican ask questions, but I'm not
necessarily going to askquestions to steer you to think
(50:04):
like me.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, if that makes sense.
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
I appreciate dialogue like that versus we all know
the content that's out there.
When it comes to blackmasculinity in particular, I can
speak to that.
Uh, it is really toxic.
It's so toxic yes, it is likemaybe we can do an episode on
that I don't know, I don't know.
I'm praying if we do episode onit we'll be able to that type
(50:31):
of like energy and that type ofpause I don't think we should we
all know what I'm talking aboutyou go in the comment section
and it's just like the same kindof stereotypical conversation.
I appreciate you for havingconversations that steer us away
from that deliberately Iappreciate you if that makes.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, it does.
I appreciate you, that's soaffirming.
I appreciate you, that's soaffirming.
I appreciate you, brother,appreciate you.
Yeah, yeah, well, this has beenfun.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
This has been a great first talk for me.
Jonathan, I'll pass it over toyou, but I'm definitely looking
forward to sharing more with thefolks about my platform and
your platform and, just you know, giving them a peek of how we
run.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that this is um, thisis just an idea and shout out I
want to just shout you out,kenny, like you came up with
this.
You hit me up.
I was like I want to dosomething like this, like, let's
like, just try, um, and I loveexperimenting, like that's.
I think that that's my word thisyear is just try shit out, try
stuff out, um, and so like, yeah, there's there an agenda, but
(51:37):
it's more of a conversation and,yeah, just a real dialogue
about, about our experiencespotting and hopefully folks get
some.
Actually, I know folks I'm notgoing to say hope, I know folks
got some value out of this andhopefully it's affirming that's
what I'll say.
Hopefully it's affirming andimpactful for them to keep going
, to start whatever.
So, yeah, that's that's all Igot.
(51:59):
I guess you could check out ourshows beyond normal with with
Kenny and then highly visibleand a little misunderstood, with
myself, and I think all of bothof our shows can be found
everywhere.
Right, yours can be foundeverywhere, yeah, so check us
out y'all.
Thanks so much for tapping in.
Appreciate you, appreciate you,appreciate it, peace.
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