March 28, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Beyond Normal Podcast, join host Kenny Groom as he dives into an enlightening conversation with Pabel Martinez, the visionary founder of Plurawl. Discover how Plurawl is revolutionizing therapy with AI-powered life coaching that identifies and helps overcome limiting beliefs. Pabel shares his personal journey from tech roles at major companies to developing an app that offers accessible mental health support.
Explore the challenges and breakthroughs in creating an AI tool that fosters personal growth and self-awareness. Whether you’re curious about digital therapy solutions or passionate about mental health innovation, this episode provides a compelling look at how technology is transforming therapeutic practices.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kenny (00:33):
Hey, what's going on everybody.
My name is Kenny groom.
I am your host of the beyondnormal podcast.
I'm excited to, be recording forseason seven.
I can't believe we've made it tothis point.
We've seen some incrediblegrowth.
And for those that have beenwith us this entire time.
Thank you.
If this is your first timelistening, I hope you get some
(00:54):
nuggets from what we're about toexplore today.
we are going to be talking tothe founder of Plural, Pabel
Martinez.
Plural, focuses on AI poweredlife coaching that helps you
identify and overcome yourlimiting beliefs.
for those of us who haven'tnecessarily, I've experienced
(01:17):
the app myself.
We'll get into that during theepisode.
but for those that have notnecessarily, been, in therapy,
throughout their life, I thinkthis is a really cool tool.
first step for, for those of usthat are looking for, therapy
options out for out there.
So without further ado, let'sbring a Pabel to the stage.
(01:38):
How's it going to Pabel.
Pabel (01:39):
Hey, what's up?
What's up?
Y'all glad to be here.
Kenny (01:42):
Thank you for being on the platform.
I know as a founder, you arereally, really busy at all
times.
There's always fires to put out.
and so, you being able to spenda little bit of time with us
today to share your story, andlet us know more about the
platform you're building.
we definitely appreciate that.
so can you, can you start out, Igave a brief, intro of the
(02:06):
product, but maybe you can startout.
Let's go back and learn a littlebit about your background, your
experience.
Like, like, what have you beendoing with your life prior to,
starting this company here?
Pabel (02:18):
Yeah.
So before launching thiscompany, I was working like 10
plus years in tech.
worked at companies likeFacebook for four years and my
last role was working at ticktock.
So I was a global accountdirector at Tick Tock.
And I always say that, yeah, Iwas a tech employee, but I've
always felt like I carried thesecond job as, as an actor at
(02:39):
work, because when I would gointo work, I would often be like
the only, you know, black orLatino person in a room, in a
meeting on a team.
And I felt like I had to besomeone else.
No one necessarily told me thatat work, but I felt the pressure
to, you know, Act like the bestwhite male version that I could
(03:02):
be because that's what I saweveryone else doing so I had a
lot of limiting beliefs and selfdoubt when I was in those spaces
about like do I belong here?
Am I good enough?
am I gonna make it will I everbe promoted?
I was overwhelmed with thosethoughts.
Kenny (03:22):
I think we all can definitely relate to that.
I just had to take a minute toreflect on it.
that actually brings me to how Ifound you, via LinkedIn, because
you have some, You mentionedthat you were going through
those experiences in corporateAmerica, where you felt like you
had to like code switch andidentify somebody that you're
(03:42):
not because your LinkedInprofile now is.
is so unique, right?
That that's what draws me toyou.
So it's curious to, I'm curiousto hear that you actually went
through that experience and thatnow you're at a point now where
just based off your content onLinkedIn, which is how I found
you, I feel like you're 100percent or as close as possible
(04:04):
to owning up to your ownpersonal identity.
Does that, does that make sense?
Pabel (04:10):
Yeah, and it's so funny that you said that man And I
really really appreciate thatlike that's what That's the
energy that I want to put outthere.
And it's funny because evensomething like LinkedIn, I would
tell myself like, Oh, if I writeabout this or that, then, people
aren't going to take meseriously at work.
Or if I make a joke on LinkedIn,then my clients are going to see
(04:30):
it and not want to work with me.
And I'm doing is just likemaking up a bunch of stories in
my head.
Right.
I have no proof.
It's not like a client ever toldme like, yo, if you.
Write a personal opinion onLinkedIn or make a joke or try
to be funny.
Like I'm never going to workwith you.
Like I just told myself that.
Right.
And that's the problem is that,like, based on, either our life
(04:52):
experiences or the traaticthings that our family have been
through, like, we're scared tooftentimes take certain steps in
life because of what we think isgoing to happen as if we can
predict the future.
But it's not true.
So, yeah, these days I've stillworking on myself, but I've let
go of a lot of that fear and Itry to be myself at all at all
times.
Kenny (05:13):
It's interesting that you, you bring that up.
most of these social mediaplatforms specifically, they're,
they're supposed to be like thisblank slate, like where people
can make their own identity,right?
But for some reason, I don'tknow why people go to a platform
(05:34):
like LinkedIn and then, likethey create their business
profile and you can create itany way you want.
And then we all just end upseeing to your point, like white
version of business.
Like it is really interestingbecause I know there's some
conspiracy theories and thingslike that around it, but it's
(05:56):
just really interesting how someof these platforms they have
like a monotone voice, eventhough at the same time, they're
promoting for people to be theirtrue selves.
If that makes sense.
Like it's such a, it's such aparadox to me.
It really is.
Pabel (06:13):
think, I think LinkedIn is just a small subset of like
what the world is or like whatthe business world
Kenny (06:21):
So,
Pabel (06:23):
LinkedIn, they have guidelines, like you have to
code switch on LinkedIn or likeyou have to talk in a certain
way, but the reason that we dothat is because we look around.
Right.
In a digital world, we lookaround and we see other people
talk a certain way.
And then we're like, oh, well,if everyone is talking a certain
way, that means I have to do it.
Right.
Even if you look at my content,you're like, Oh, well, he's an
(06:44):
outlier, right?
Like he may talk a certain way.
He acts like himself, but noteveryone else is talking like
that.
So let me, let me just do whateveryone else is doing.
And that's what we do at work.
If we go into work and everyoneis talking a certain way,
dressing a certain way, we'regoing to do the same because we
want to be accepted by themajority.
So that that's just life, bro.
Like that, that's just like hannature.
(07:04):
We all want to be accepted.
Like it's difficult.
Like standing out.
We've been taught, especially aspeople of color to not stand out
because standing out is a badthing.
don't want to stand out.
Kenny (07:20):
all right, so this whole conversation of standing out and
you were in tech for, for quitea bit.
I have some experience in techas well.
Like, do you feel like tech,like did it, there's, there's
this like preconceived notion,like people that work in tech,
(07:43):
like they're able to, like, Kindof bring them their whole selves
to work a little bit more thanin other environments.
Like, what are your, what's yourthoughts on that?
And then I guess on the back endof that, what made you take the
leap of faith to not be in techanymore, working for somebody
else, but then start your ownthing.
Pabel (08:06):
Yeah.
I mean, so that's why I wantedto work in tech originally.
and, and, you know, I'm stillin, I'm still in tech, you know,
with, with the company Icreated, it is, it is a tech
company, but I wanted to work intech because Of the values that
it communicates.
Like there's this idea that youcan be yourself.
Right.
And in fact, it's often in a lotof the values, right.
(08:29):
Even when I wanted to work atMeta, you know, Facebook at the
time, that was a big thing.
It was communicated that like,come as you are, we will accept
you.
As long as you get your workdone, it doesn't really matter.
Right.
But I think, I don't think theyreally know, like authenticity
(08:51):
Or I don't think people thatwork there really understand to
what level they're comfortableletting people be themselves.
like, I mean, this happens atevery job that I've had.
But I was at meta, I got a lotof resistance for being myself.
(09:17):
I was hit with themicroaggressions.
I was labeled aggressive andunapproachable and unfriendly
and all these kind of things.
so I think sometimes techcompanies say like beer most
authentic self, but I thinksometimes that means like.
you don't have to wear a suit ora button down shirt.
Like you can wear a t shirt, butI think authenticity so far
(09:40):
beyond just being able to wear at shirt.
So as much as they say it, Idon't know if they are ready
really accept in amicroaggression world, our
authenticity,
Kenny (09:57):
Yeah, agree with you.
Definitely.
It goes past like the tech ethosof like, come, come in your
Hawaiian shirts and your shortsand accept it.
It's like more, a little bitmore than that.
Like, to your point, like.
You know, like it's how peopletalk cultures.
It's like food, like all thesethings that pop up it's for, for
(10:18):
black and Latino.
Right.
It would be like hair, like is abig thing for us.
Like coming into the work withour hair, the way we want it,
like, Hey, it's a really bigthing, but for some, like you
said, like, like those nuances,they're not really sure, and I
appreciate you framing it thatway, because they're not even
sure how far they're willing togo until somebody comes, to the
(10:39):
table and approaches them in aculture that is completely
foreign to them.
Pabel (10:46):
I agree and I also think I believe that there's, there,
there's one thing of likecompany.
you, I also think there is aresponsibility on us to not give
a fuck or give less of a fuck.
(11:07):
And I know that's kind of scaryto hear in times where people
are cutting jobs.
it's a competitive job market,but I do think that we should to
look for places that will acceptus for who we are not try to
assimilate just because We wantto put big tech companies on our
(11:30):
reses, you know what I mean?
Like, I started doing my bestwork when I was at Meta when I
stopped faking it.
And it's a common story amongeverybody.
and not just at Meta, buteverybody that I've spoken to
have done, you know, in theresearch that I've done, like,
people don't do their best work.
they stop faking it becausethey're spending so much time in
that assimilation process.
Kenny (11:51):
It is hard lesson to learn, for sure.
You're leveraging those, thoselessons learned now.
So I'm curious as you createdthe company, what are those
things you're taking away fromthose experiences that you're
using every day now that you'rea founder of a tech company?
Pabel (12:13):
Yeah, so what I've learned is that people
essentially stop faking it andthey start being themselves for
two reasons.
One of them is see somebody thatin some ways almost like gives
them permission to bethemselves.
It's kind of like this idea oflike.
If you see it, then you believethat you can be it, right?
(12:35):
Like if you see somebody thatlooks like you or share some
sort of identity around you andyou see them on stage or
somewhere on LinkedIn orwhatever at work and they're
being themselves and they'relike killing it at work, you're
like, oh, shit, well, if theycould do it, then I could do it,
right?
That's why a lot of my contenton LinkedIn is.
just giving people their flowersand showing praise.
So I just like be like, yo, youdon't believe you could be it.
(12:57):
Look at this person.
They probably look like you andthey're killing it and they got
the swag to match, right?
So that's what all my contentdoes.
Now, the other reason thatpeople stop faking it, and which
is this one is the unfortunatepart is they often have some
sort of like mental healthbreakdown, call it burnout, call
it a crisis, whatever it is, butthey reach a point of just like
exhaustion.
And they're just like, Fuck it.
(13:19):
I'm tired of faking it.
I'm just gonna be myself rightand that's why I created the app
that I created plural because Ithink the app will help people
avoid that moment of crisisbecause If you vent to the app
or journal about what you'reexperiencing, you click one
button and we'll give youinsight into why you're feeling
(13:41):
that way.
Like, we'll highlight thelimiting belief that you're
likely holding onto aboutyourself that is preventing you
from taking that next step andbeing yourself, right?
So for me, if I vented during myexperience at Facebook, the app
would have told me like, yo, P,you're, you're jping to
conclusions.
Like, how do you know thatsituation is going to happen in
the future without any evidenceto back it up?
(14:01):
Right.
So that's an insight that Ilearned when I went to therapy,
but I was like, how can I createa product that can like mimic
that therapy experience at afraction of the cost and is
accessible 24 seven.
Kenny (14:17):
I, I experienced the tool myself.
I've given, people knows I'vegiven them some feedback on it.
And for me, it was an eye openeras somebody who recently has,
you know, started going totherapy.
And there's like these momentsthat you, like, like you
mentioned, like these moments,they just pop up and if you
(14:41):
don't have a resource there, itcould turn into like the end of
the world, like quick.
But if you have something therethat you can use to talk through
it, it, it allows you toevaluate and like level set.
(15:04):
is probably like the term thatcomes, comes to mind the, that
top of mind for me.
And just at first, it's like,why?
I'll be honest.
Right.
And it's like, I'm talking to arobot, like what, but it asks
you these, these questions.
(15:25):
Of like the, you go through thediscovery process and I'm glad
like a lot of your materialslike focus on self discovery
because I could tell like justfrom the questions that it was
asking me, it's not necessarilytrying to give you an answer,
but it's giving you the space tolike think through and level set
(15:45):
through, you know, the, thechallenge or the, the idea
that's in your head in themoment.
And so I found a lot of power inthat.
And as somebody who.
found therapy later on in life.
I appreciate this app for whatit does for me.
And it allows me to, on a dailybasis, not have to say, I gotta
(16:09):
call my therapist right now.
Like this is, you know,escalated immediately.
Like I can truly, talk throughit.
But the robot, I'll be honest,it's going to take some, it took
me maybe like a day or two, butonce I figured that piece out,
it was like, Oh, this is, thisis cool.
It does like the sentimentpiece.
(16:30):
it does some really cool stuff.
like journaling is, it bringslike journaling to.
Like the 2025 to me, like, Idon't know too many people that
actively like journal now.
And then for those that do it, Idon't feel like they share their
experience of what it does forthem.
(16:51):
This is like the modern day,like, this is me getting into
journaling a little bit,leveraging this app.
So I appreciate you for buildingthis.
They have a long story.
That was a little ramble there.
but they had, that was my tape,man.
Pabel (17:07):
I appreciate that.
And you bring up so many pointsaround.
Like, listen, I went to therapyand like, I saw her once a week,
but like, what about those othersix days of the week?
Right?
if I have a panic attack at twoin the morning, I contact my
therapist.
She's not gonna respond.
She's sleeping.
She's a han, right?
Like, hans just have limitationsbecause we're hans, right?
(17:28):
Like, so I don't even think thatit will necessarily replace
therapists.
I think it will complement
Kenny (17:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Pabel (17:37):
already doing.
The ideal scenario probably islike this.
Plus that
Kenny (17:44):
Mhm.
Mhm.
Pabel (17:47):
it may be a replacement and like, that's fine.
because not everybody can affordit and access it.
But for others, I do think itwill compliment.
And I think another point thatyou bring up is, like, we all
need an outlet to process ourthoughts.
And I think about my own,Experience when I was working in
tech and I was going through allthese things.
(18:08):
Like I couldn't talk to myfamily about it because they
didn't understand, like they'venever been in the rooms that
I've been in.
Right.
They're going to be like, yo,what are you complaining about?
Like, don't you get freebreakfast, lunch, and dinner?
Like, know, I can't talk to myfriends because they, they got
jobs, but it's also not thespecific things that I'm going
through.
So at some point you're justlike, all right, who the fuck do
(18:30):
I talk to?
And what people have said isthat they feel safer.
Talking to this quote unquoterobot because they don't feel
like the robot is going to comewith these like preconceived
notions or bias around it andthey can feel like free kind of
like talking to it.
and the other thing lastly isthat, we built it intentionally
(18:53):
to not tell you what to do.
Like, if you say you want to,like, break up with your
girlfriend, we're not gonna belike, oh, yeah, go for it.
We're gonna be like, well, whydo you want to do that?
How do you feel when you'rearound her?
Like, we want to help you makeyour own decision just through
these qualifying questions.
Kenny (19:09):
That that spurred just spurred the thought for me.
Like you said, finding atherapist is almost like, in the
black community is almost likefinding a church or like finding
a friend group, like finding atherapist isn't like, Oh, you
just go to an app and you'rejust picking.
(19:31):
You know, you pick your firsttherapist and then that's your
therapist moving forward.
A lot of times you have to gothrough the process of, you may
want a therapist that's of aspecific, religious faith.
practice, you know, therapystyle, you know, the things like
that.
So to your point, like it's,this is probably a compliment to
(19:51):
the, the in person because thein person can take a lot longer
to find that right therapistthat's for you versus this.
There's no real like bias,right?
You can go into it, have yourconversations and.
be able to go through that selfdiscovery on your own.
So there's more onus on youcompletely versus I feel like
(20:12):
the therapist process, at leastfor the black community, where a
lot of people aren't necessarilygoing to therapy now, probably
like less than, less than 20percent of the people that I
know in my entire community.
network that I know that areblack have gone to therapy,
right?
And so that's a small nber, butfor those that are trying to get
(20:32):
into it, it can be a dauntingtask going through the process
of just filtering through thoseindividuals.
And so that's where I see theapp, like plural, like you said,
if you need to have thoseconversations throughout your
week, you have moments where youneed to reflect like this app
is, is a game changer.
Pabel (20:51):
I appreciate that, man.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Kenny (20:54):
So tell me a little bit how it is, you, you've got a
team, right?
so you're not, you're a solofounder in terms of the one
who's.
Who's creating it.
Right.
But you've got a team to supportthis.
You're leveraging AI.
I talk a little bit about howyou've built out your team to,
to, to make the magic happen inthe plural app.
Pabel (21:14):
Yeah, so I'm a non technical solo founder, so I'm
not doing any of the coding.
Yeah, I'm not doing any of thebuilding, but I had the vision.
I had the idea and I did theresearch.
I had the conversations.
I did the focus groups aroundlike yo, what kind of apps are
you using you know, do this dothat?
(21:35):
What do you want?
And, just to like validate myidea.
So I had an idea going into it.
and then I just spoke to like abunch of friends and people in
my network who journaled, whowent to therapy, who never did
any of the two and try to figureout why.
And then.
essentially cashed out my 401kto build this.
(21:56):
So I paid and still paying anapp development team to build
and take it from like idea toproduct maintain it and make a
bunch of updates.
So I'm still working with themnow.
the first people that we gaveaccess to the actual app, once
we did launch is our group ofclinical advisors.
(22:16):
So I.
Within my network, I know abunch of folks, talented, very
smart individuals with adifferent skill set than me and
experience around like they arelicensed.
therapist, right?
So they're already working withclients and they have insight
around, like, is this how theapp should be responding?
(22:37):
Is this a safe, resource todirect people if they say that
they want to do self harm or allthese other things, right?
Like, they're really providingthe, around, like, what that
client patient therapistrelationship is like, so that we
can do our best to mimic, Thesort of insights that they're
(22:57):
giving their clients and makesure that the platform is safe
so that once we do scale it tomore people, I'm not worried if
somebody is, you know,experiencing a crisis situation.
So that's kind of like a littlebit about the team that I'm
working with, but I'm the onlylike full time person on plural
so far.
Yeah.
Kenny (23:17):
around a non technical.
you know, there, there, there'sfolks out there that are trying
to build applications, you know,software based tools.
And so it's really cool thatyou're going about, building out
your team the right way andacknowledging early on, raising
your hand, like, Hey, I'm not acoder.
I need somebody to really get inhere and do this.
(23:39):
Like, I appreciate thatperspective.
Pabel (23:41):
And I could have tried to learn code.
There's a lot of people that tryto learn it.
There's a bunch of like AI toolsthat you can go out there and
build it too.
But, I wanted to move fast and,I know I have like a very
specific set of skill sets basedon my experience, so I just
wanted to focus on that and justlike, fuck it.
I'm like, you know, fuck it.
(24:02):
I'm gonna take a risk.
I can build up my 401k again,but I just want to like work
with a team that is already beenthere done that I can build it
faster than I can.
so it's not the only way to doit.
It's just the way that I did itso far
Kenny (24:15):
So tell me, so you just said you cashed out the 401k.
I think we've talked about thisbefore.
my wife would, she would likeover there.
I think it's what I said when wetalked about it.
But I, I think that,
Pabel (24:34):
you even for the thought of thinking about it.
Kenny (24:36):
that there's like, it would be, it would not be good.
but that is really going all inand believing in yourself.
They were like, I'm not surethat many people have the
gption, right.
If I can use that word toactually.
Do that.
And so I'm curious, like withyou, with you taking that step
(24:57):
and cashing out your 401k, like,what would it look like?
Do you need, do you need, like,do you need to go down the path
of like getting investors andlike doing seed rounds and
things like that?
Do you, do you see or foreseeyourself doing that in the
future?
Or do you feel like you want toself fund this fully?
(25:18):
yourself.
Pabel (25:19):
Yeah I mean always told myself like yo worst case
scenario if this doesn't workout I'll just go back to what I
was doing and like I was I wasmaking pretty good money when I
was working before.
So like, in some ways I'm notnecessarily worried about
getting a job.
So yeah, it was a big risk.
Listen, I invested, I cashed outa lot of money in my 401k.
(25:40):
Like I, like if you go on my401k account is literally zero.
I'm not saying I cashed outsomething like all of that shit
is gone.
So yeah, it
Kenny (25:48):
it.
Pabel (25:50):
the way that I look at it, like, I really feel like
what I'm building is like,Knowing the lotto nbers that are
going to come out tomorrow, likeyou have the ability to like
cash out that ticket, but like,all you got to do is like bet on
yourself and buy the ticket.
You know what I mean?
Like, I just believe in it.
I know it's not a matter oflike, if it's going to be
(26:13):
successful, it's a matter oflike, when and how big, you know
what I mean?
So, Yeah, I mean, in theory, Icould continue to self fund, I'm
also operating in a space wherethere's a lot of big players
that are competition, you know,listen, apple not too long ago,
released a journal app that isnative.
(26:35):
So, like, anytime you buy aniphone, that shit is just
automatically in there, right?
headspace has been in the gamefor a while.
There's a bunch of different bigcompanies that are launching
similar.
Sort of absent services.
So I need to move quickly andfunding will help me do that.
So, I want to raise venturecapital, money.
(26:59):
I want to raise money fromangels so that we can move
faster.
because if I think if we don't,when people think about these
types of services, they may notthink about us.
And lastly, the reason why Ithink that's important is
(27:19):
because.
I think I'm the only companythat is building this sort of
service and technology that isthinking about in prioritizing
black and Latino communities.
So whoever is nber one, whoeverpeople think about when they
(27:41):
think about these sort of appsand services, I would like them
to be someone that is thinkingabout these communities.
I don't want us to be anafterthought.
I want us to be the priority.
So that's why I think movingreally quickly is really
important as well.
Kenny (27:58):
I appreciate that.
perspective and the way thatyou're building it with the
intentionality of serving blackand Latino communities.
Like you said, there isn'tsomeone who's doing that, even
at the scale of like an apple,or the Android, you know, their
native applications aretypically built for the masses.
(28:21):
Right.
And so their main, their net,there's not necessarily going to
be, specific applications inmost cases within those native.
communities that are particularto black and Latino,
communities, right?
And so that, that's a, that's adifferentiator, but in itself,
and we know we need that more,more than ever now in terms of
(28:42):
platforms that are the FUBUmodel for us by us.
And so I'm looking forward toyou raising and scaling
appropriately, man.
Pabel (28:51):
Thank you.
And I just want to be clear too.
Like, I'm not saying, forexample, like we're, we're going
to be running pilot programs andtest at different colleges,
universities, as well ascorporations and like going into
these, these, these, like I'mmaking it very clear.
Like this is for everybody.
The app is for everybody.
(29:11):
Like anybody can use it.
There's a bunch of white peoplethat use the app.
What I believe when building aproduct is that if you build a
product for the most underservedand vulnerable, then it will by
default be accessible foreverybody.
You know what I mean?
It's like, if you create a videoon Instagram or TikTok that,
(29:31):
that, even did someone that isdeaf can take it, can understand
what's going on, but with thatcontent with text overlays,
with, with, headlines, with allthese sorts of things, then by
default, it's, it's a betterexperience for everybody.
You know what I mean?
Kenny (29:49):
I like that example too.
I think certain communities goover, they're, they're
overlooked at times.
And it's just like, well, youcan just build it with this
framework.
You build it for them.
And then everybody else's usecases included in that by
default, that just seems like alogical way to build something.
but that is not always the case.
(30:10):
So I, I, I definitely see theneed.
So outside of you building thisapp, I'm curious, like what
apps, like what's it, what's inyour top apps right now?
Like what's the top app thatyou're using outside of plural
Pabel (30:24):
Oh, easy hinge.
Kenny (30:27):
hinge.
I love it.
I love it.
Oh,
Pabel (30:32):
even played that shit is nber one.
Kenny (30:35):
Oh my gosh.
And what is the reason for ourlisteners?
what, what do you use and hingefor?
Are you trying to find the one?
I
Pabel (30:46):
I would love to find the one.
Yeah.
I mean, Yeah, your boy, your boysingle, your boy lonely.
think hinge me, at least I'veseen the best women on hinge.
I've had the most, the mostconnections that have led to
conversations and dates havecome from hinge, compared to
(31:09):
like, you know, Tinder or Bbleor some of the other dating
apps.
So yeah, your boy looking forbae.
Kenny (31:19):
love it.
I'm not mad at it.
You know, my situation, I'mcurious though, like what, for
you, for you being in foundermode right now, like what does
finding that person, like, whatwould that do for you?
Pabel (31:34):
Oh, I think finding that person would help my mental
health.
so one of the things talk aboutlove languages, right?
One of my love languages isphysical touch.
(31:54):
one of the reasons why I love mygrandma.
And I visit her very often, likeevery week or every other week
is because she lets me hug andsqueeze her.
She lets me show her affectionshe's also affectionate.
Like she'll rub your arm orwhatever.
(32:16):
Like my mom is like, Oh my God,that's too tight.
Get away from me.
Right?
Like, she's funny like that.
like when I hug my grandma, allmy problems go away.
Kenny (32:27):
Mm hmm.
Pabel (32:29):
It just, it just, I can't even describe it.
It's just like, It is like that,right?
For some people, it's words ofaffirmation.
For some people, it's this andthat.
But, I think having a partnerwhere you're able to show,
express, receive love, on aconsistent basis, like, oh man,
(32:49):
that, that, that's amazing foryour mental health.
Kenny (32:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Pabel (32:54):
Besides the other things, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
Kenny (33:00):
That was a great answer.
Oh my gosh.
But you are right.
I think, I mean, it is, it islike stability in terms of like
having that person you can go toand they know how to like calm
you down and things like that.
Like that, that is really like,that's undervalued.
And life in general, but thenthe hecticness of like starting
(33:22):
something new, all theuncertainty you're hearing, no,
all the time from people eitherusing your app and saying no, or
investors and things like that.
Like you need some ways to.
To decompress or just like levelset, right?
As all of this is happening.
And so having a, having asignificant other is definitely
(33:45):
a cheat code to me.
I don't think we've, we'veexplored it enough on the
platform and I'm actually tryingto figure out how we can explore
that more.
So I appreciate you being candidand honest about the apps you're
using and what you're trying toget right now in this moment.
While being here, right?
Like while, while doing all the,all the other cool, amazing
(34:05):
stuff that people think, likethere's value in having that,
that other person.
Pabel (34:10):
Oh, for sure.
I mean, for me, I just thinkabout it like, yeah, I'm looking
for my best friend.
I mean, obviously, you know,love her, love my life, all that
stuff, but like, I think whenit's best described, like, yeah,
I'm looking for my best friend.
Who doesn't who doesn't want tofind their best friend?
Kenny (34:27):
You got me thinking after this, I'm about to go spend time
with my best friend.
But, so, how can I, I've, I'vedone my testimony about the app.
You explain a little bit aboutthe focus of the app.
Like how can folks right now tapin, to plural sign up, like,
(34:49):
like walk us through the easiestway for people to start, getting
in the app and, and, and havingthat self discovery
Pabel (34:57):
Yeah, so it's free to download, and every Person that
download like automatically youget a free 14 day trial So you
don't have to put in any creditcard information It's very
simple.
You just create an account withlike name email.
I'm, sorry, email password YouAnd then you can just start your
(35:18):
self discovery process.
And once you're in the app,it's, it's very simple.
You just vent, talk aboutwhatever you're experiencing,
whatever's going on.
You click one button and we'llhighlight whatever limiting
beliefs you seem to be holdingonto, whether you're
experiencing self doubt or jpinto conclusions.
then you can have a conversationone on one with the AI, if
that's easier for you.
(35:39):
so yeah, it's really simple.
We just want to help you learnabout yourself
Kenny (35:42):
I downloaded from the Apple app store.
It's an Apple and Android.
Pabel (35:49):
uh, so Android will have it later this year.
Kenny (35:52):
Okay.
Pabel (35:52):
but right now it's only available for apple.
So if you go to our website,plural.
com, P L U R A W L.
there are two links wherethere's one link where you can
sign up for the Android waitlist so that you can be the
first one to sign up.
Be updated.
We'll send an email out when itwhen it's live there's a link
where you can just download itfrom the app store, but it's
available for for apple phonesright now.
Kenny (36:14):
All right.
That's dope.
what else trying to think?
Well, you can go ahead and,I'll, I'll pass it to you.
I appreciate you coming on theplatform.
And sharing, your learnings,from going through and being a
founder, taking your experiencein tech all that time.
(36:37):
and now you're at a point nowwhere you're building this
really cool company.
I've been hands on with theproduct myself.
so I see the first, I've seenfirsthand the value in it.
And then as somebody who's onmy, therapy journey.
I definitely see this being anapp that many, many people, get
(36:58):
value from, but, I want to passit to you last thing, kind of
close out thoughts.
You want to leave us on as we,as we look to wrap this up.
Pabel (37:08):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So listen, therapy, mentalhealth, all these sort of
buzzwords.
They're really intimidating andthey're scary.
In fact, they probably scaremost people from ever going into
it.
So I would think of plural as athought partner, right?
And here's why you got to thinkabout it like that.
According to the NationalScience Foundation, 95 percent
(37:28):
of people's thoughts Arerepetitive and 80 percent of
those repetitive thoughts thatI'm talking about are negative
So on a daily basis, we're stuckon this endless loop and replay
of self doubt.
So You need a resource Keep youin check and let you know like
yo, may be jping to conclusionsmay be just creating your story
(37:50):
and may be creating a story inyour head around you think may
happen, but it may not be true.
We'll help you Identify whyyou're feeling like that and put
you on the right track so thatyou can start being your best
self
Kenny (38:04):
I love that, man.
That's a great way to close thisout.
folks, make sure that you chat,you tap in, via the, the website
and the app.
And, without further ado, I justwant to say, thank you for
tuning in, to another greatepisode of the beyond normal
podcast.
Peace.
Pabel (38:26):
That was dope, man
Hey, what's going on everybody.
My name is Kenny groom.
I am your host of the beyondnormal podcast.
I'm excited to, be recording forseason seven.
I can't believe we've made it tothis point.
We've seen some incrediblegrowth.
And for those that have beenwith us this entire time.
Thank you.
If this is your first timelistening, I hope you get some
(00:54):
nuggets from what we're about toexplore today.
we are going to be talking tothe founder of Plural, Pabel
Martinez.
Plural, focuses on AI poweredlife coaching that helps you
identify and overcome yourlimiting beliefs.
for those of us who haven'tnecessarily, I've experienced
(01:17):
the app myself.
We'll get into that during theepisode.
but for those that have notnecessarily, been, in therapy,
throughout their life, I thinkthis is a really cool tool.
first step for, for those of usthat are looking for, therapy
options out for out there.
So without further ado, let'sbring a Pabel to the stage.
(01:38):
How's it going to Pabel.
Pabel (01:39):
Hey, what's up?
What's up?
Y'all glad to be here.
Kenny (01:42):
Thank you for being on the platform.
I know as a founder, you arereally, really busy at all
times.
There's always fires to put out.
and so, you being able to spenda little bit of time with us
today to share your story, andlet us know more about the
platform you're building.
we definitely appreciate that.
so can you, can you start out, Igave a brief, intro of the
(02:06):
product, but maybe you can startout.
Let's go back and learn a littlebit about your background, your
experience.
Like, like, what have you beendoing with your life prior to,
starting this company here?
Pabel (02:18):
Yeah.
So before launching thiscompany, I was working like 10
plus years in tech.
worked at companies likeFacebook for four years and my
last role was working at ticktock.
So I was a global accountdirector at Tick Tock.
And I always say that, yeah, Iwas a tech employee, but I've
always felt like I carried thesecond job as, as an actor at
(02:39):
work, because when I would gointo work, I would often be like
the only, you know, black orLatino person in a room, in a
meeting on a team.
And I felt like I had to besomeone else.
No one necessarily told me thatat work, but I felt the pressure
to, you know, Act like the bestwhite male version that I could
(03:02):
be because that's what I saweveryone else doing so I had a
lot of limiting beliefs and selfdoubt when I was in those spaces
about like do I belong here?
Am I good enough?
am I gonna make it will I everbe promoted?
I was overwhelmed with thosethoughts.
Kenny (03:22):
I think we all can definitely relate to that.
I just had to take a minute toreflect on it.
that actually brings me to how Ifound you, via LinkedIn, because
you have some, You mentionedthat you were going through
those experiences in corporateAmerica, where you felt like you
had to like code switch andidentify somebody that you're
(03:42):
not because your LinkedInprofile now is.
is so unique, right?
That that's what draws me toyou.
So it's curious to, I'm curiousto hear that you actually went
through that experience and thatnow you're at a point now where
just based off your content onLinkedIn, which is how I found
you, I feel like you're 100percent or as close as possible
(04:04):
to owning up to your ownpersonal identity.
Does that, does that make sense?
Pabel (04:10):
Yeah, and it's so funny that you said that man And I
really really appreciate thatlike that's what That's the
energy that I want to put outthere.
And it's funny because evensomething like LinkedIn, I would
tell myself like, Oh, if I writeabout this or that, then, people
aren't going to take meseriously at work.
Or if I make a joke on LinkedIn,then my clients are going to see
(04:30):
it and not want to work with me.
And I'm doing is just likemaking up a bunch of stories in
my head.
Right.
I have no proof.
It's not like a client ever toldme like, yo, if you.
Write a personal opinion onLinkedIn or make a joke or try
to be funny.
Like I'm never going to workwith you.
Like I just told myself that.
Right.
And that's the problem is that,like, based on, either our life
(04:52):
experiences or the traaticthings that our family have been
through, like, we're scared tooftentimes take certain steps in
life because of what we think isgoing to happen as if we can
predict the future.
But it's not true.
So, yeah, these days I've stillworking on myself, but I've let
go of a lot of that fear and Itry to be myself at all at all
times.
Kenny (05:13):
It's interesting that you, you bring that up.
most of these social mediaplatforms specifically, they're,
they're supposed to be like thisblank slate, like where people
can make their own identity,right?
But for some reason, I don'tknow why people go to a platform
(05:34):
like LinkedIn and then, likethey create their business
profile and you can create itany way you want.
And then we all just end upseeing to your point, like white
version of business.
Like it is really interestingbecause I know there's some
conspiracy theories and thingslike that around it, but it's
(05:56):
just really interesting how someof these platforms they have
like a monotone voice, eventhough at the same time, they're
promoting for people to be theirtrue selves.
If that makes sense.
Like it's such a, it's such aparadox to me.
It really is.
Pabel (06:13):
think, I think LinkedIn is just a small subset of like
what the world is or like whatthe business world
Kenny (06:21):
So,
Pabel (06:23):
LinkedIn, they have guidelines, like you have to
code switch on LinkedIn or likeyou have to talk in a certain
way, but the reason that we dothat is because we look around.
Right.
In a digital world, we lookaround and we see other people
talk a certain way.
And then we're like, oh, well,if everyone is talking a certain
way, that means I have to do it.
Right.
Even if you look at my content,you're like, Oh, well, he's an
(06:44):
outlier, right?
Like he may talk a certain way.
He acts like himself, but noteveryone else is talking like
that.
So let me, let me just do whateveryone else is doing.
And that's what we do at work.
If we go into work and everyoneis talking a certain way,
dressing a certain way, we'regoing to do the same because we
want to be accepted by themajority.
So that that's just life, bro.
Like that, that's just like hannature.
(07:04):
We all want to be accepted.
Like it's difficult.
Like standing out.
We've been taught, especially aspeople of color to not stand out
because standing out is a badthing.
don't want to stand out.
Kenny (07:20):
all right, so this whole conversation of standing out and
you were in tech for, for quitea bit.
I have some experience in techas well.
Like, do you feel like tech,like did it, there's, there's
this like preconceived notion,like people that work in tech,
(07:43):
like they're able to, like, Kindof bring them their whole selves
to work a little bit more thanin other environments.
Like, what are your, what's yourthoughts on that?
And then I guess on the back endof that, what made you take the
leap of faith to not be in techanymore, working for somebody
else, but then start your ownthing.
Pabel (08:06):
Yeah.
I mean, so that's why I wantedto work in tech originally.
and, and, you know, I'm stillin, I'm still in tech, you know,
with, with the company Icreated, it is, it is a tech
company, but I wanted to work intech because Of the values that
it communicates.
Like there's this idea that youcan be yourself.
Right.
And in fact, it's often in a lotof the values, right.
(08:29):
Even when I wanted to work atMeta, you know, Facebook at the
time, that was a big thing.
It was communicated that like,come as you are, we will accept
you.
As long as you get your workdone, it doesn't really matter.
Right.
But I think, I don't think theyreally know, like authenticity
(08:51):
Or I don't think people thatwork there really understand to
what level they're comfortableletting people be themselves.
like, I mean, this happens atevery job that I've had.
But I was at meta, I got a lotof resistance for being myself.
(09:17):
I was hit with themicroaggressions.
I was labeled aggressive andunapproachable and unfriendly
and all these kind of things.
so I think sometimes techcompanies say like beer most
authentic self, but I thinksometimes that means like.
you don't have to wear a suit ora button down shirt.
Like you can wear a t shirt, butI think authenticity so far
(09:40):
beyond just being able to wear at shirt.
So as much as they say it, Idon't know if they are ready
really accept in amicroaggression world, our
authenticity,
Kenny (09:57):
Yeah, agree with you.
Definitely.
It goes past like the tech ethosof like, come, come in your
Hawaiian shirts and your shortsand accept it.
It's like more, a little bitmore than that.
Like, to your point, like.
You know, like it's how peopletalk cultures.
It's like food, like all thesethings that pop up it's for, for
(10:18):
black and Latino.
Right.
It would be like hair, like is abig thing for us.
Like coming into the work withour hair, the way we want it,
like, Hey, it's a really bigthing, but for some, like you
said, like, like those nuances,they're not really sure, and I
appreciate you framing it thatway, because they're not even
sure how far they're willing togo until somebody comes, to the
(10:39):
table and approaches them in aculture that is completely
foreign to them.
Pabel (10:46):
I agree and I also think I believe that there's, there,
there's one thing of likecompany.
you, I also think there is aresponsibility on us to not give
a fuck or give less of a fuck.
(11:07):
And I know that's kind of scaryto hear in times where people
are cutting jobs.
it's a competitive job market,but I do think that we should to
look for places that will acceptus for who we are not try to
assimilate just because We wantto put big tech companies on our
(11:30):
reses, you know what I mean?
Like, I started doing my bestwork when I was at Meta when I
stopped faking it.
And it's a common story amongeverybody.
and not just at Meta, buteverybody that I've spoken to
have done, you know, in theresearch that I've done, like,
people don't do their best work.
they stop faking it becausethey're spending so much time in
that assimilation process.
Kenny (11:51):
It is hard lesson to learn, for sure.
You're leveraging those, thoselessons learned now.
So I'm curious as you createdthe company, what are those
things you're taking away fromthose experiences that you're
using every day now that you'rea founder of a tech company?
Pabel (12:13):
Yeah, so what I've learned is that people
essentially stop faking it andthey start being themselves for
two reasons.
One of them is see somebody thatin some ways almost like gives
them permission to bethemselves.
It's kind of like this idea oflike.
If you see it, then you believethat you can be it, right?
(12:35):
Like if you see somebody thatlooks like you or share some
sort of identity around you andyou see them on stage or
somewhere on LinkedIn orwhatever at work and they're
being themselves and they'relike killing it at work, you're
like, oh, shit, well, if theycould do it, then I could do it,
right?
That's why a lot of my contenton LinkedIn is.
just giving people their flowersand showing praise.
So I just like be like, yo, youdon't believe you could be it.
(12:57):
Look at this person.
They probably look like you andthey're killing it and they got
the swag to match, right?
So that's what all my contentdoes.
Now, the other reason thatpeople stop faking it, and which
is this one is the unfortunatepart is they often have some
sort of like mental healthbreakdown, call it burnout, call
it a crisis, whatever it is, butthey reach a point of just like
exhaustion.
And they're just like, Fuck it.
(13:19):
I'm tired of faking it.
I'm just gonna be myself rightand that's why I created the app
that I created plural because Ithink the app will help people
avoid that moment of crisisbecause If you vent to the app
or journal about what you'reexperiencing, you click one
button and we'll give youinsight into why you're feeling
(13:41):
that way.
Like, we'll highlight thelimiting belief that you're
likely holding onto aboutyourself that is preventing you
from taking that next step andbeing yourself, right?
So for me, if I vented during myexperience at Facebook, the app
would have told me like, yo, P,you're, you're jping to
conclusions.
Like, how do you know thatsituation is going to happen in
the future without any evidenceto back it up?
(14:01):
Right.
So that's an insight that Ilearned when I went to therapy,
but I was like, how can I createa product that can like mimic
that therapy experience at afraction of the cost and is
accessible 24 seven.
Kenny (14:17):
I, I experienced the tool myself.
I've given, people knows I'vegiven them some feedback on it.
And for me, it was an eye openeras somebody who recently has,
you know, started going totherapy.
And there's like these momentsthat you, like, like you
mentioned, like these moments,they just pop up and if you
(14:41):
don't have a resource there, itcould turn into like the end of
the world, like quick.
But if you have something therethat you can use to talk through
it, it, it allows you toevaluate and like level set.
(15:04):
is probably like the term thatcomes, comes to mind the, that
top of mind for me.
And just at first, it's like,why?
I'll be honest.
Right.
And it's like, I'm talking to arobot, like what, but it asks
you these, these questions.
(15:25):
Of like the, you go through thediscovery process and I'm glad
like a lot of your materialslike focus on self discovery
because I could tell like justfrom the questions that it was
asking me, it's not necessarilytrying to give you an answer,
but it's giving you the space tolike think through and level set
(15:45):
through, you know, the, thechallenge or the, the idea
that's in your head in themoment.
And so I found a lot of power inthat.
And as somebody who.
found therapy later on in life.
I appreciate this app for whatit does for me.
And it allows me to, on a dailybasis, not have to say, I gotta
(16:09):
call my therapist right now.
Like this is, you know,escalated immediately.
Like I can truly, talk throughit.
But the robot, I'll be honest,it's going to take some, it took
me maybe like a day or two, butonce I figured that piece out,
it was like, Oh, this is, thisis cool.
It does like the sentimentpiece.
(16:30):
it does some really cool stuff.
like journaling is, it bringslike journaling to.
Like the 2025 to me, like, Idon't know too many people that
actively like journal now.
And then for those that do it, Idon't feel like they share their
experience of what it does forthem.
(16:51):
This is like the modern day,like, this is me getting into
journaling a little bit,leveraging this app.
So I appreciate you for buildingthis.
They have a long story.
That was a little ramble there.
but they had, that was my tape,man.
Pabel (17:07):
I appreciate that.
And you bring up so many pointsaround.
Like, listen, I went to therapyand like, I saw her once a week,
but like, what about those othersix days of the week?
Right?
if I have a panic attack at twoin the morning, I contact my
therapist.
She's not gonna respond.
She's sleeping.
She's a han, right?
Like, hans just have limitationsbecause we're hans, right?
(17:28):
Like, so I don't even think thatit will necessarily replace
therapists.
I think it will complement
Kenny (17:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Pabel (17:37):
already doing.
The ideal scenario probably islike this.
Plus that
Kenny (17:44):
Mhm.
Mhm.
Pabel (17:47):
it may be a replacement and like, that's fine.
because not everybody can affordit and access it.
But for others, I do think itwill compliment.
And I think another point thatyou bring up is, like, we all
need an outlet to process ourthoughts.
And I think about my own,Experience when I was working in
tech and I was going through allthese things.
(18:08):
Like I couldn't talk to myfamily about it because they
didn't understand, like they'venever been in the rooms that
I've been in.
Right.
They're going to be like, yo,what are you complaining about?
Like, don't you get freebreakfast, lunch, and dinner?
Like, know, I can't talk to myfriends because they, they got
jobs, but it's also not thespecific things that I'm going
through.
So at some point you're justlike, all right, who the fuck do
(18:30):
I talk to?
And what people have said isthat they feel safer.
Talking to this quote unquoterobot because they don't feel
like the robot is going to comewith these like preconceived
notions or bias around it andthey can feel like free kind of
like talking to it.
and the other thing lastly isthat, we built it intentionally
(18:53):
to not tell you what to do.
Like, if you say you want to,like, break up with your
girlfriend, we're not gonna belike, oh, yeah, go for it.
We're gonna be like, well, whydo you want to do that?
How do you feel when you'rearound her?
Like, we want to help you makeyour own decision just through
these qualifying questions.
Kenny (19:09):
That that spurred just spurred the thought for me.
Like you said, finding atherapist is almost like, in the
black community is almost likefinding a church or like finding
a friend group, like finding atherapist isn't like, Oh, you
just go to an app and you'rejust picking.
(19:31):
You know, you pick your firsttherapist and then that's your
therapist moving forward.
A lot of times you have to gothrough the process of, you may
want a therapist that's of aspecific, religious faith.
practice, you know, therapystyle, you know, the things like
that.
So to your point, like it's,this is probably a compliment to
(19:51):
the, the in person because thein person can take a lot longer
to find that right therapistthat's for you versus this.
There's no real like bias,right?
You can go into it, have yourconversations and.
be able to go through that selfdiscovery on your own.
So there's more onus on youcompletely versus I feel like
(20:12):
the therapist process, at leastfor the black community, where a
lot of people aren't necessarilygoing to therapy now, probably
like less than, less than 20percent of the people that I
know in my entire community.
network that I know that areblack have gone to therapy,
right?
And so that's a small nber, butfor those that are trying to get
(20:32):
into it, it can be a dauntingtask going through the process
of just filtering through thoseindividuals.
And so that's where I see theapp, like plural, like you said,
if you need to have thoseconversations throughout your
week, you have moments where youneed to reflect like this app
is, is a game changer.
Pabel (20:51):
I appreciate that, man.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Kenny (20:54):
So tell me a little bit how it is, you, you've got a
team, right?
so you're not, you're a solofounder in terms of the one
who's.
Who's creating it.
Right.
But you've got a team to supportthis.
You're leveraging AI.
I talk a little bit about howyou've built out your team to,
to, to make the magic happen inthe plural app.
Pabel (21:14):
Yeah, so I'm a non technical solo founder, so I'm
not doing any of the coding.
Yeah, I'm not doing any of thebuilding, but I had the vision.
I had the idea and I did theresearch.
I had the conversations.
I did the focus groups aroundlike yo, what kind of apps are
you using you know, do this dothat?
(21:35):
What do you want?
And, just to like validate myidea.
So I had an idea going into it.
and then I just spoke to like abunch of friends and people in
my network who journaled, whowent to therapy, who never did
any of the two and try to figureout why.
And then.
essentially cashed out my 401kto build this.
(21:56):
So I paid and still paying anapp development team to build
and take it from like idea toproduct maintain it and make a
bunch of updates.
So I'm still working with themnow.
the first people that we gaveaccess to the actual app, once
we did launch is our group ofclinical advisors.
(22:16):
So I.
Within my network, I know abunch of folks, talented, very
smart individuals with adifferent skill set than me and
experience around like they arelicensed.
therapist, right?
So they're already working withclients and they have insight
around, like, is this how theapp should be responding?
(22:37):
Is this a safe, resource todirect people if they say that
they want to do self harm or allthese other things, right?
Like, they're really providingthe, around, like, what that
client patient therapistrelationship is like, so that we
can do our best to mimic, Thesort of insights that they're
(22:57):
giving their clients and makesure that the platform is safe
so that once we do scale it tomore people, I'm not worried if
somebody is, you know,experiencing a crisis situation.
So that's kind of like a littlebit about the team that I'm
working with, but I'm the onlylike full time person on plural
so far.
Yeah.
Kenny (23:17):
around a non technical.
you know, there, there, there'sfolks out there that are trying
to build applications, you know,software based tools.
And so it's really cool thatyou're going about, building out
your team the right way andacknowledging early on, raising
your hand, like, Hey, I'm not acoder.
I need somebody to really get inhere and do this.
(23:39):
Like, I appreciate thatperspective.
Pabel (23:41):
And I could have tried to learn code.
There's a lot of people that tryto learn it.
There's a bunch of like AI toolsthat you can go out there and
build it too.
But, I wanted to move fast and,I know I have like a very
specific set of skill sets basedon my experience, so I just
wanted to focus on that and justlike, fuck it.
I'm like, you know, fuck it.
(24:02):
I'm gonna take a risk.
I can build up my 401k again,but I just want to like work
with a team that is already beenthere done that I can build it
faster than I can.
so it's not the only way to doit.
It's just the way that I did itso far
Kenny (24:15):
So tell me, so you just said you cashed out the 401k.
I think we've talked about thisbefore.
my wife would, she would likeover there.
I think it's what I said when wetalked about it.
But I, I think that,
Pabel (24:34):
you even for the thought of thinking about it.
Kenny (24:36):
that there's like, it would be, it would not be good.
but that is really going all inand believing in yourself.
They were like, I'm not surethat many people have the
gption, right.
If I can use that word toactually.
Do that.
And so I'm curious, like withyou, with you taking that step
(24:57):
and cashing out your 401k, like,what would it look like?
Do you need, do you need, like,do you need to go down the path
of like getting investors andlike doing seed rounds and
things like that?
Do you, do you see or foreseeyourself doing that in the
future?
Or do you feel like you want toself fund this fully?
(25:18):
yourself.
Pabel (25:19):
Yeah I mean always told myself like yo worst case
scenario if this doesn't workout I'll just go back to what I
was doing and like I was I wasmaking pretty good money when I
was working before.
So like, in some ways I'm notnecessarily worried about
getting a job.
So yeah, it was a big risk.
Listen, I invested, I cashed outa lot of money in my 401k.
(25:40):
Like I, like if you go on my401k account is literally zero.
I'm not saying I cashed outsomething like all of that shit
is gone.
So yeah, it
Kenny (25:48):
it.
Pabel (25:50):
the way that I look at it, like, I really feel like
what I'm building is like,Knowing the lotto nbers that are
going to come out tomorrow, likeyou have the ability to like
cash out that ticket, but like,all you got to do is like bet on
yourself and buy the ticket.
You know what I mean?
Like, I just believe in it.
I know it's not a matter oflike, if it's going to be
(26:13):
successful, it's a matter oflike, when and how big, you know
what I mean?
So, Yeah, I mean, in theory, Icould continue to self fund, I'm
also operating in a space wherethere's a lot of big players
that are competition, you know,listen, apple not too long ago,
released a journal app that isnative.
(26:35):
So, like, anytime you buy aniphone, that shit is just
automatically in there, right?
headspace has been in the gamefor a while.
There's a bunch of different bigcompanies that are launching
similar.
Sort of absent services.
So I need to move quickly andfunding will help me do that.
So, I want to raise venturecapital, money.
(26:59):
I want to raise money fromangels so that we can move
faster.
because if I think if we don't,when people think about these
types of services, they may notthink about us.
And lastly, the reason why Ithink that's important is
(27:19):
because.
I think I'm the only companythat is building this sort of
service and technology that isthinking about in prioritizing
black and Latino communities.
So whoever is nber one, whoeverpeople think about when they
(27:41):
think about these sort of appsand services, I would like them
to be someone that is thinkingabout these communities.
I don't want us to be anafterthought.
I want us to be the priority.
So that's why I think movingreally quickly is really
important as well.
Kenny (27:58):
I appreciate that.
perspective and the way thatyou're building it with the
intentionality of serving blackand Latino communities.
Like you said, there isn'tsomeone who's doing that, even
at the scale of like an apple,or the Android, you know, their
native applications aretypically built for the masses.
(28:21):
Right.
And so their main, their net,there's not necessarily going to
be, specific applications inmost cases within those native.
communities that are particularto black and Latino,
communities, right?
And so that, that's a, that's adifferentiator, but in itself,
and we know we need that more,more than ever now in terms of
(28:42):
platforms that are the FUBUmodel for us by us.
And so I'm looking forward toyou raising and scaling
appropriately, man.
Pabel (28:51):
Thank you.
And I just want to be clear too.
Like, I'm not saying, forexample, like we're, we're going
to be running pilot programs andtest at different colleges,
universities, as well ascorporations and like going into
these, these, these, like I'mmaking it very clear.
Like this is for everybody.
The app is for everybody.
(29:11):
Like anybody can use it.
There's a bunch of white peoplethat use the app.
What I believe when building aproduct is that if you build a
product for the most underservedand vulnerable, then it will by
default be accessible foreverybody.
You know what I mean?
It's like, if you create a videoon Instagram or TikTok that,
(29:31):
that, even did someone that isdeaf can take it, can understand
what's going on, but with thatcontent with text overlays,
with, with, headlines, with allthese sorts of things, then by
default, it's, it's a betterexperience for everybody.
You know what I mean?
Kenny (29:49):
I like that example too.
I think certain communities goover, they're, they're
overlooked at times.
And it's just like, well, youcan just build it with this
framework.
You build it for them.
And then everybody else's usecases included in that by
default, that just seems like alogical way to build something.
but that is not always the case.
(30:10):
So I, I, I definitely see theneed.
So outside of you building thisapp, I'm curious, like what
apps, like what's it, what's inyour top apps right now?
Like what's the top app thatyou're using outside of plural
Pabel (30:24):
Oh, easy hinge.
Kenny (30:27):
hinge.
I love it.
I love it.
Oh,
Pabel (30:32):
even played that shit is nber one.
Kenny (30:35):
Oh my gosh.
And what is the reason for ourlisteners?
what, what do you use and hingefor?
Are you trying to find the one?
I
Pabel (30:46):
I would love to find the one.
Yeah.
I mean, Yeah, your boy, your boysingle, your boy lonely.
think hinge me, at least I'veseen the best women on hinge.
I've had the most, the mostconnections that have led to
conversations and dates havecome from hinge, compared to
(31:09):
like, you know, Tinder or Bbleor some of the other dating
apps.
So yeah, your boy looking forbae.
Kenny (31:19):
love it.
I'm not mad at it.
You know, my situation, I'mcurious though, like what, for
you, for you being in foundermode right now, like what does
finding that person, like, whatwould that do for you?
Pabel (31:34):
Oh, I think finding that person would help my mental
health.
so one of the things talk aboutlove languages, right?
One of my love languages isphysical touch.
(31:54):
one of the reasons why I love mygrandma.
And I visit her very often, likeevery week or every other week
is because she lets me hug andsqueeze her.
She lets me show her affectionshe's also affectionate.
Like she'll rub your arm orwhatever.
(32:16):
Like my mom is like, Oh my God,that's too tight.
Get away from me.
Right?
Like, she's funny like that.
like when I hug my grandma, allmy problems go away.
Kenny (32:27):
Mm hmm.
Pabel (32:29):
It just, it just, I can't even describe it.
It's just like, It is like that,right?
For some people, it's words ofaffirmation.
For some people, it's this andthat.
But, I think having a partnerwhere you're able to show,
express, receive love, on aconsistent basis, like, oh man,
(32:49):
that, that, that's amazing foryour mental health.
Kenny (32:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Pabel (32:54):
Besides the other things, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
Kenny (33:00):
That was a great answer.
Oh my gosh.
But you are right.
I think, I mean, it is, it islike stability in terms of like
having that person you can go toand they know how to like calm
you down and things like that.
Like that, that is really like,that's undervalued.
And life in general, but thenthe hecticness of like starting
(33:22):
something new, all theuncertainty you're hearing, no,
all the time from people eitherusing your app and saying no, or
investors and things like that.
Like you need some ways to.
To decompress or just like levelset, right?
As all of this is happening.
And so having a, having asignificant other is definitely
(33:45):
a cheat code to me.
I don't think we've, we'veexplored it enough on the
platform and I'm actually tryingto figure out how we can explore
that more.
So I appreciate you being candidand honest about the apps you're
using and what you're trying toget right now in this moment.
While being here, right?
Like while, while doing all the,all the other cool, amazing
(34:05):
stuff that people think, likethere's value in having that,
that other person.
Pabel (34:10):
Oh, for sure.
I mean, for me, I just thinkabout it like, yeah, I'm looking
for my best friend.
I mean, obviously, you know,love her, love my life, all that
stuff, but like, I think whenit's best described, like, yeah,
I'm looking for my best friend.
Who doesn't who doesn't want tofind their best friend?
Kenny (34:27):
You got me thinking after this, I'm about to go spend time
with my best friend.
But, so, how can I, I've, I'vedone my testimony about the app.
You explain a little bit aboutthe focus of the app.
Like how can folks right now tapin, to plural sign up, like,
(34:49):
like walk us through the easiestway for people to start, getting
in the app and, and, and havingthat self discovery
Pabel (34:57):
Yeah, so it's free to download, and every Person that
download like automatically youget a free 14 day trial So you
don't have to put in any creditcard information It's very
simple.
You just create an account withlike name email.
I'm, sorry, email password YouAnd then you can just start your
(35:18):
self discovery process.
And once you're in the app,it's, it's very simple.
You just vent, talk aboutwhatever you're experiencing,
whatever's going on.
You click one button and we'llhighlight whatever limiting
beliefs you seem to be holdingonto, whether you're
experiencing self doubt or jpinto conclusions.
then you can have a conversationone on one with the AI, if
that's easier for you.
(35:39):
so yeah, it's really simple.
We just want to help you learnabout yourself
Kenny (35:42):
I downloaded from the Apple app store.
It's an Apple and Android.
Pabel (35:49):
uh, so Android will have it later this year.
Kenny (35:52):
Okay.
Pabel (35:52):
but right now it's only available for apple.
So if you go to our website,plural.
com, P L U R A W L.
there are two links wherethere's one link where you can
sign up for the Android waitlist so that you can be the
first one to sign up.
Be updated.
We'll send an email out when itwhen it's live there's a link
where you can just download itfrom the app store, but it's
available for for apple phonesright now.
Kenny (36:14):
All right.
That's dope.
what else trying to think?
Well, you can go ahead and,I'll, I'll pass it to you.
I appreciate you coming on theplatform.
And sharing, your learnings,from going through and being a
founder, taking your experiencein tech all that time.
(36:37):
and now you're at a point nowwhere you're building this
really cool company.
I've been hands on with theproduct myself.
so I see the first, I've seenfirsthand the value in it.
And then as somebody who's onmy, therapy journey.
I definitely see this being anapp that many, many people, get
(36:58):
value from, but, I want to passit to you last thing, kind of
close out thoughts.
You want to leave us on as we,as we look to wrap this up.
Pabel (37:08):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So listen, therapy, mentalhealth, all these sort of
buzzwords.
They're really intimidating andthey're scary.
In fact, they probably scaremost people from ever going into
it.
So I would think of plural as athought partner, right?
And here's why you got to thinkabout it like that.
According to the NationalScience Foundation, 95 percent
(37:28):
of people's thoughts Arerepetitive and 80 percent of
those repetitive thoughts thatI'm talking about are negative
So on a daily basis, we're stuckon this endless loop and replay
of self doubt.
So You need a resource Keep youin check and let you know like
yo, may be jping to conclusionsmay be just creating your story
(37:50):
and may be creating a story inyour head around you think may
happen, but it may not be true.
We'll help you Identify whyyou're feeling like that and put
you on the right track so thatyou can start being your best
self
Kenny (38:04):
I love that, man.
That's a great way to close thisout.
folks, make sure that you chat,you tap in, via the, the website
and the app.
And, without further ado, I justwant to say, thank you for
tuning in, to another greatepisode of the beyond normal
podcast.
Peace.
Pabel (38:26):
That was dope, man
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