August 10, 2025 • 22 mins
Burnout doesn't have to be the price of motherhood and entrepreneurship. In this eye-opening conversation with burnout and balance coach Candice Catois, we unpack the hidden factors keeping so many mothers stuck in cycles of exhaustion and overwhelm.
Candice reveals how operating on autopilot prevents us from creating the intentional life we desire. "Our brains are lazy," she explains, "they're going to do what they've always done unless we consciously intervene." This automatic functioning often creates a dangerous misalignment between our stated values and our daily priorities. Through practical coaching, Candice helps entrepreneurial mothers identify this gap and create systems that support both their business aspirations and family commitments.
The conversation takes an especially powerful turn when we discuss the distinction between having it all and doing it all. "You can have it all, you just can't do it all," Candice emphasizes. This shift in perspective allows mothers to release the impossible standard of personal perfection while still creating a life that honors all aspects of their identity. We explore how meeting our needs "in tandem" with our family's needs (rather than constantly putting ourselves last) actually makes us better parents and more effective business owners.
For any mother who's felt torn between career ambitions and family life, this episode offers a refreshing alternative to the burnout cycle. Discover how creating margin in your schedule, aligning your actions with your values, and embracing seasons of life can transform your experience of motherhood and entrepreneurship. Your children deserve a mother who's thriving, not just surviving and this conversation shows you how to become exactly that.
Want to continue the conversation? Connect with Candice on Instagram @soul_cadence_coaching or Mel on Instagram @shes.organised or grab free resources at beyondorganised.com/toolkit to start implementing these ideas today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mel (00:18):
Welcome to Beyond Organised , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Schenker, life coachspeaker, founder of She's
Organised, but, more importantly, a wife and mum of four little
kids.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed, like you're constantly
juggling everything but neverquite catching up, this is the
place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real-lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like your
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome back to another episodeof Beyond Organised.
(01:02):
Back to another episode ofBeyond Organised.
Today I have the lovely CandiceCatoire.
She is here to talk to us,particularly when it comes to
burnout and balance.
She is a burnout and balancecoach.
She comes from Washington Statein the US and she works
primarily with entrepreneurmillennial moms helping their
business and creating thatwork-life balance.
(01:24):
I'm very excited to get intotoday's episode and I'm sure I'm
going to learn plenty of things.
So welcome to the show, Candice, thank you.
Candice (01:32):
Thank you so much for having me.
Mel (01:34):
Oh, you're so welcome.
So I've been looking throughyour stuff and I really like
what you put on Instagram andeverything but for everyone
listening.
Can you please give us a bit ofbackground as to what you do
and what inspired you to getinto it?
Candice (01:48):
Yeah, so I am a burnout and balance coach is what I've
been calling myself mostrecently, but I have a
background in mental health.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist here in the
state of Washington, butseparately.
Online, I do coaching.
I always emphasize coaching isnot therapy, be very clear about
(02:08):
that.
But what drew me was I spent thefirst part of my career working
with kids and teens, and what Inoticed was to give them the
best foot forward.
Supporting their moms andmental health is a really big
way to do that.
And what I noticed, especiallyaround COVID time, was things
were shifting, people werestarting businesses, but moms
(02:30):
are exhausted and they're tryingto figure out business and kids
.
And how do we be home with ourkids while still having
something for ourselves?
And so they're lacking balance,they're burning out, and to me
it's important to have momsrealize like you can kind of
build both in a way that issustaining for you, so that you
(02:51):
have fulfilled lives, you'recontributing financially, you
have something that's foryourself, but you're still
showing up in all the ways foryour kids, and so that's what
drew me here.
Mel (03:01):
Yeah, I think it's very much needed, especially COVID.
Really was that turning pointfor so many of us in actually
reevaluating our lives and alsowhat we want to put out there
and contribute to help others aswell, so I think that's
fantastic.
So, in what you do, can yougive us a bit of a breakdown as
(03:22):
to what you do, how you do itand how you help these moms?
Candice (03:27):
Yeah, so one of the first things I do is I kind of
walk them through some of thesehidden things that are kind of
stumping them, that a lot of usdon't think about Some things
that I realize were reallycontributing to me just feeling
dragged down, burnt out.
And so I walk them through thatand then I start the shift with
(03:48):
our values and priorities,because what happens is a lot of
us end up on autopilot, not byfault of our own, but just
because that's how our brainswork.
Right, they're just our brainsare lazy, they're going to do
what they're going to do.
And so when we sit down andevaluate our values, what we
want for our family, and thenwhat we're actually prioritizing
, we realize, oh, these thingsaren't aligned and I am running
(04:12):
in several different directions.
That misalignment is because ofa values issue or a temporary,
like seasonal issue, like Ican't focus on that value right
now because of this, but that'sjust for this season.
(04:34):
Yes, and so I help them sortthat out too, because that's
another important piece that weforget.
Mel (04:40):
Yeah, no.
I completely agree.
It was interesting just lastnight I was on a coaching call
with someone and brand newclient and she was telling me a
little bit about her life.
But I just said I don't thinkyou actually need me right now,
like the season you're in,you've got a lot happening but
it's really going to end inanother month or so anyway, and
(05:03):
you already know what to dobeyond that.
So I don't think you actuallyneed me, because it's just the
season you're in and you reallyjust need a friend to talk to
right, if anything and so Ithink I think you're right in
being able to work out what yourvalues are and your priorities
are, but also acknowledging theseason you're in and obviously
(05:24):
in that lady's case she didn'treally need me, but in majority
of women that I come across,they actually need that bit of
extra support, and I'm sure yousee the same thing too.
Where you're like you're a bitstuck, let's try and help you
move forward from it.
Candice (05:40):
Yes, exactly, and then we build from there.
I walk through other shifts totake and then I from there I
kind of act as likeaccountability and practical
support in like building what isyour schedule look like?
What can it look like in thisseason?
Because what it would look likefor a brand new mom is going to
look vastly different than whatit looks like for me right now
(06:02):
with a six and five year old.
And what it looks like forsomeone who has, you know, child
care support is going to lookvastly different than what it
looks like for me right now witha six and five year old.
And what it looks like forsomeone who has, you know,
childcare support is going tolook vastly different than
someone who doesn't.
So I help them kind of find allthose things and put the pieces
together for what theirpractical stuff can look like
and then help them kind ofmanage their own coping skills
and stuff to keep their coolwhile they're doing all of this
(06:24):
so that they can grow theirbusinesses and they can do all
the family stuff and have allthat.
But my biggest key that Ialways tell people in my
messaging and in coaching andstuff is you can have it all.
You just can't do it all, andthere's a very big difference
there.
Mel (06:39):
Yes, yeah, definitely, and I think also setting realistic
expectations as well and justgoing.
You can even in that you canhave it all eventually.
Candice (06:57):
and also with expectations, like there is the
shift that has to happen of someof our expectations.
Sometimes and that's anotherthing I do talk to clients about
it's like well, let's look atyour expectations and again, the
season of life you're in, andhow are we going to put those in
so that we can scale them maybe?
Or we can, because sometimes wejust we don't even think about.
(07:20):
Sometimes we don't even knowwhat our expectations are until
they're not met and we'redisappointed.
And then we think, oh, Ithought this was going to be
something different, but Ididn't actually think about it.
Mel (07:31):
A hundred percent, and it happens all the time when you
start off with a new client andthere's sort of the expectations
at the start of where they wantto be in like three months time
or wherever, and then along theway it's like, oh, hang on a
second, maybe I don'tparticularly want to go that way
, or all these other things havecome up that I actually want to
(07:53):
focus on more.
First, things shift, thingschange and that as well, and I
think it is important to beadaptable as well and just go.
You know what.
It's okay if my expectationschange, and I thought this was
my dream or this is why balance,but it actually turns out the
thing over.
There is actually more what I'mafter, and I think it's
(08:15):
important to reevaluate as yougo and acknowledge it's okay to
put some things to bed and justlet it be and then fight for the
other things, go for the otherthings, and that's, I guess, you
as a coach and me as a coach,what we help draw out along the
way, because a lot of the time,until you really start digging
(08:37):
deep, you don't even moveanywhere, you don't really get
started, you don't know what youwant.
Candice (08:44):
I think that's so true.
I also think it's true it'skind of there's several
different camps, but two reallybig ones are that you don't know
what you want, like you justsaid.
And then there's the peoplethat do kind of want to shift
right.
They see, oh, it is somethingover here, but they really do
feed into the sunk cost fallacy,not even necessarily for money
but for time.
(09:05):
But I spent so much time andenergy going this direction.
What are people going to thinkif I pull back?
What are people going to thinkif I turn around?
Or what am I losing?
And it's an amazing thing oncewe realize I just get to take
what I've learned from this pathand put it over here.
Mel (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Oh, that's so good.
So what do you find is the mainthing that holds these women
back in being able to breakthrough or move forward, maybe
keeps them stuck in burnout?
What do you think is the mainmain pain point and issue there?
There's a couple of differentones, but one of the biggest one
is that getting stuck point andissue there.
Candice (09:43):
There's a couple of different ones, but one of the
biggest one is that gettingstuck on autopilot thing.
I was actually talking to acouple of different clients
about this recently, not evenjust in my coaching practice,
but I see this, I have seen thistime and again in the past 10
years that I've been a therapist.
People just get stuck inautopilot where they think, well
, this is just how it is, thisis just how it's always been and
(10:05):
this is the pattern we've gotstuck in.
And I don't know the step toget us out of this, I don't know
the and so they kind of sitthere and either don't make
decisions, or they makedecisions they think will help,
but again they haven't reallythought about their expectations
or priorities or values.
So what they think is going tohelp in that moment isn't, and
(10:27):
so they just get stuck onautopilot.
I think that's a really big one.
And then another big one isthat expectation reality
mismatch.
Those two things really do keepwomen stuck, because unless we
can sit down and evaluate, ourbrain is just going to do what
it's going to do.
It's just going to go whereit's always gone.
Mel (10:49):
Yeah, and it will default to the path of least resistance.
Exactly yeah.
And it was interesting.
I had another client.
Sorry to sort of jump in andsteal something here, but I had
another client the other nightand I was giving her some
practical ways that she couldeven just do her laundry a
little bit differently, becausethat was a big pain point for
(11:10):
her, and I gave her a few thingsthat were little tweaks that
were actually going to make whatshe does so much easier.
But she kept on saying oh, butI've always done it like this
and I do it like this.
I'm like, yeah, but is thatworking for you?
No, it's not.
I'm like so are you willing totry the?
(11:30):
way that I suggested to see ifthat's going to work.
And then you're like, oh, Iguess that's why I'm here.
I'm like, yeah, it is.
So you're right when you gointo that default autopilot.
But also, but I've always doneit this way, so it's really hard
to shift and change and dothings differently when it's
(11:54):
just so much comfortable andeasier I say easier, you know,
in quotation marks it's so mucheasier doing it the way I've
always done it.
But when we really stop tothink about it the way we've
always done, it isn't asefficient or it is taking us
more time to do and costing usin other ways.
Candice (12:11):
It's not serving you in this season.
No.
Mel (12:14):
It's adding to the stress and the noise and the weight of
everything that you're trying toget done.
There's a better way to do itfor you that works specifically
for you.
It might not be better forsomeone else, but from
everything you're telling me andit's just it's important to
realize where we might actuallybe on autopilot and go okay,
(12:39):
hang on a second.
I haven't consciously thoughtabout this thing for a while.
Is this really serving me?
Candice (12:44):
Yeah, I completely agree.
One of the shifts that I dowork with my clients on is
moving into more intentionalways of doing things, like
intentional I call itintentional motherhood, but it
works.
In creative Like.
You need to be intentionalabout your business, intentional
about motherhood, like andbecause it does, it does take
intentional effort to make someof these changes or you will
(13:06):
have that resistance like youtalked about, and sometimes they
don't realize it's resistance,they're just but I've always
done it this way, or this is howthis specific person told me to
do it.
What if this other way doesn'twork?
And it's we think, well, isthis way working right now?
Mel (13:22):
yeah, I know and change is hard, it is hard and I
definitely acknowledge the factthat change isn't pleasant for
most people particularly whenyour schedule is tight, your
time is tight, your finances,everything else is kids running
around your feet asking forsnacks 24 hours a day, exactly
so you start to change things inthere and it can throw out
(13:46):
everything.
Well, that's what you thinkmight happen, and so it can be
really hard to change.
But I like that you, inparticular, focus on the burnout
and the balance.
And balance is a huge part ofwhat I do, because, even though
I use organizing as the meansfor it the end goal isn't to be
(14:08):
organized.
The end goal is to live a morebalanced life and to have a more
intentional life, to better ourrelationships and enjoy the
day-to-day, even the mundane, toenjoy it.
And when you're working withyour clients, with burnout and
balance, what would you saytheir main goals are that you're
(14:31):
seeing?
Candice (14:33):
Before I say that, I want to say I love the
organizing part because thathelps us create margin in our
day, whether it's organizing ourschedule, organizing our stuff
because I do talk to clientsabout both of those things.
Not as an organizer, I,actually I connect them with
other people that can do that,if that's what they need.
Yeah.
But I like that because you'recreating margin, and so I think
(14:53):
that is one big thing that theydo lack is that margin.
They fill it up with everything, yeah.
Mel (15:00):
And it also allows for for buffer, as you're saying like
the margin where, if thingsdon't go to plan or anything,
you can adapt easier becauseyou're not cluttered and filled
not just with stuff, butmentally you're able to think on
your feet a bit more and adaptand, yeah, just handle whatever
life throws at you a lot easier.
(15:22):
So anyway, sorry, okay, so canyou.
I'm sorry, could you repeat the?
Candice (15:26):
question though, Because my brain just went like
oh, there was a question and Idon't remember.
Mel (15:30):
So what was the question again?
What are you finding is sort ofthe biggest goal for those moms
when it comes to starting offwith the burnout but getting to
the balance?
What are you finding is theirmain goal?
Candice (15:45):
The main goal that I'm finding is what they're looking
for is a way to have somethingthat is theirs, to contribute to
their family while also beingpresent, fully present with it,
like be there for the growing upyears.
They don't want to have to likecall into their nine to five
because you know their child issick.
They want to be able to bethere for them, but they also
don't want to miss out on beingable to support themselves or
(16:07):
their family If things happen.
They want to have all of that,but we've been trained,
especially in Westerncivilizations, that it has to be
like a certain way to do thatand we're scared to step outside
of that.
So a lot of, a lot of them.
The goal is I want to find theway that this can work for me,
so that I can have something forme and contribute financially
(16:29):
while also actually being thepresent parent that I want to be
Be there for meals, be therefor either homeschooling or
extracurriculars if their kidsare in school, or be there to be
the soccer mom to take kidsaround, but while also
contributing to their family.
So the main goal is how do Ifind the thing that will do that
for me and do it withoutrunning myself ragged.
Mel (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can relate to that just with my own
story and, as I mentioned to youoff air before that, my
youngest is home sick, but he'ssleeping at the moment, which is
good.
But I wouldn't be able to haveall that flexibility in a
typical nine to five Right Allthe time, and it is great being
(17:12):
able to have something that ismine, that I'm creating as well
for me, because for so manyyears it's been mum, mum, mum,
mum, mum and it's nice, and Ialways liked going back to work
and that after that too, becauseit was part of being Mel, not
just mum Right exactly yeah, andI think from what you're saying
(17:33):
that these women are very muchthe same and being able to have
something that's theirs, that ispart of their identity, outside
of being a mom, but also get tobe more present as a mom and
show up better as a mom becauseI know I do.
When I can look after myself, Ican do things that fill me up.
(17:53):
I show up way better for mykids and my husband and my
parents and everyone else.
I think it's important to lookafter yourselves because for so
long it's almost like we've kindof still stuck in the 1950s in
some ways, where we're there tomake everyone else's life easier
(18:14):
and more smoothly and we putour needs last to better serve.
You know you'll get yourfulfillment from looking after
your husband right, yeah yeah, Imean, and I do to a degree, but
I also get a lot morefulfillment in actually being
able to address my own needs too, and my business is part of
(18:34):
that, and and I'm sure, forthese women, their businesses
are part of that.
That's what they need to feellike they're contributing to the
world outside of contributingthrough their family.
Candice (18:46):
It's how they don't lose themselves in motherhood or
business, and I like to thinkof it not as meeting our needs
first, but meeting them intandem, because if we don't meet
our needs, we can't meetanybody else's.
Mel (18:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Candice (18:59):
It's not exactly first it's.
Yeah it's in tandem, and theneverybody is kind of you know
happier more fulfilled, yeah,and that so.
Mel (19:10):
I agree.
Candice (19:10):
Yeah, because even then , even then, we have moments
where it's like, well, I'm still, I am going to have moments
where I do put my child first.
Yeah, you know, we all, as theyage.
We're going to have differentmoments like that.
So I just think of it as likewe're doing it in tandem with
them.
We're doing it in tandem.
Noah's needs are going unmethere.
(19:32):
Yes, we're all having needs methere.
I love that.
I love that.
Yes, we're all having needs methere.
Mel (19:35):
I love that.
I love that.
Yes, I'm going to use that.
That's good.
So if there was one thing thatyou would hope that moms out
there would know, particularlythese working moms, what's a
piece of advice or somethingthat you would love them to know
?
Candice (19:55):
I just want them to know that it is possible to have
it you just can't do everythingto get it and that they are
worth it.
Doing this for them is actuallyone of the best things they
could do for their kids.
Mel (20:06):
Yeah.
Candice (20:07):
And so that's what I would want them to know, because
when you show up in your best,they get the best of you.
Mel (20:15):
So yeah, I agree, I agree, and I've seen it for myself too.
So cause I didn't always lookafter myself, and so the kids
got the snappy end of me as well.
So it is so important to beable to look after yourself that
it helps meet their needs too.
Candice (20:34):
So I do agree.
Mel (20:37):
So, Candice, if there's a mom out there that would love to
connect with you, would love toknow more about what you're
doing.
Where can they find you?
What can you do to help them?
Candice (20:50):
Well, they can.
They can find me to learn moreum at Instagram or threads.
My handle is at soul,underscore, cadence, underscore
coaching.
On both of those, I do have acoaching program for creative
entrepreneur moms who arewanting to go from burnout to
balance and walk through thesesteps and have someone do it
(21:10):
with them, so they don't have tofigure it out alone and they
can learn more about that on myInstagram.
Mel (21:16):
Yeah.
Candice (21:16):
And yeah, so they'll reach out through there.
Mel (21:18):
Well, I'll make sure that the details are in the
description.
So just head to the descriptionif you need the details there
and you want to reach out toCandice.
But I think that's all we havetime for today.
But I really enjoyed theconversation.
I feel like we could keep going.
Candice (21:34):
Yes absolutely.
Mel (21:36):
I really enjoyed it.
Thank you for being on the show.
Candice (21:39):
Well, thank you for having me.
This was great.
I love talking about this stuff.
Mel (21:45):
Me too, and I just love that.
You're on the same path, in thesame lane as what I am, so
that's why I feel like I couldtalk to you forever.
So it's lovely to connect withyou, I agree.
So that's why I feel like Icould talk to you forever.
So it's lovely to connect withyou, I agree, all right, well,
thank you for coming on the showand we'll talk to you soon,
okay, thanks, if you loved thisepisode, don't forget to hit
(22:08):
subscribe so you don't misswhat's coming next.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram at @shes.
organised, or, for some freeresources, head over to
beyondorganised.
com/ toolkit.
Remember organising is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
Welcome to Beyond Organised , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Schenker, life coachspeaker, founder of She's
Organised, but, more importantly, a wife and mum of four little
kids.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed, like you're constantly
juggling everything but neverquite catching up, this is the
place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real-lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like your
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome back to another episodeof Beyond Organised.
(01:02):
Back to another episode ofBeyond Organised.
Today I have the lovely CandiceCatoire.
She is here to talk to us,particularly when it comes to
burnout and balance.
She is a burnout and balancecoach.
She comes from Washington Statein the US and she works
primarily with entrepreneurmillennial moms helping their
business and creating thatwork-life balance.
(01:24):
I'm very excited to get intotoday's episode and I'm sure I'm
going to learn plenty of things.
So welcome to the show, Candice, thank you.
Candice (01:32):
Thank you so much for having me.
Mel (01:34):
Oh, you're so welcome.
So I've been looking throughyour stuff and I really like
what you put on Instagram andeverything but for everyone
listening.
Can you please give us a bit ofbackground as to what you do
and what inspired you to getinto it?
Candice (01:48):
Yeah, so I am a burnout and balance coach is what I've
been calling myself mostrecently, but I have a
background in mental health.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist here in the
state of Washington, butseparately.
Online, I do coaching.
I always emphasize coaching isnot therapy, be very clear about
(02:08):
that.
But what drew me was I spent thefirst part of my career working
with kids and teens, and what Inoticed was to give them the
best foot forward.
Supporting their moms andmental health is a really big
way to do that.
And what I noticed, especiallyaround COVID time, was things
were shifting, people werestarting businesses, but moms
(02:30):
are exhausted and they're tryingto figure out business and kids
.
And how do we be home with ourkids while still having
something for ourselves?
And so they're lacking balance,they're burning out, and to me
it's important to have momsrealize like you can kind of
build both in a way that issustaining for you, so that you
(02:51):
have fulfilled lives, you'recontributing financially, you
have something that's foryourself, but you're still
showing up in all the ways foryour kids, and so that's what
drew me here.
Mel (03:01):
Yeah, I think it's very much needed, especially COVID.
Really was that turning pointfor so many of us in actually
reevaluating our lives and alsowhat we want to put out there
and contribute to help others aswell, so I think that's
fantastic.
So, in what you do, can yougive us a bit of a breakdown as
(03:22):
to what you do, how you do itand how you help these moms?
Candice (03:27):
Yeah, so one of the first things I do is I kind of
walk them through some of thesehidden things that are kind of
stumping them, that a lot of usdon't think about Some things
that I realize were reallycontributing to me just feeling
dragged down, burnt out.
And so I walk them through thatand then I start the shift with
(03:48):
our values and priorities,because what happens is a lot of
us end up on autopilot, not byfault of our own, but just
because that's how our brainswork.
Right, they're just our brainsare lazy, they're going to do
what they're going to do.
And so when we sit down andevaluate our values, what we
want for our family, and thenwhat we're actually prioritizing
, we realize, oh, these thingsaren't aligned and I am running
(04:12):
in several different directions.
That misalignment is because ofa values issue or a temporary,
like seasonal issue, like Ican't focus on that value right
now because of this, but that'sjust for this season.
(04:34):
Yes, and so I help them sortthat out too, because that's
another important piece that weforget.
Mel (04:40):
Yeah, no.
I completely agree.
It was interesting just lastnight I was on a coaching call
with someone and brand newclient and she was telling me a
little bit about her life.
But I just said I don't thinkyou actually need me right now,
like the season you're in,you've got a lot happening but
it's really going to end inanother month or so anyway, and
(05:03):
you already know what to dobeyond that.
So I don't think you actuallyneed me, because it's just the
season you're in and you reallyjust need a friend to talk to
right, if anything and so Ithink I think you're right in
being able to work out what yourvalues are and your priorities
are, but also acknowledging theseason you're in and obviously
(05:24):
in that lady's case she didn'treally need me, but in majority
of women that I come across,they actually need that bit of
extra support, and I'm sure yousee the same thing too.
Where you're like you're a bitstuck, let's try and help you
move forward from it.
Candice (05:40):
Yes, exactly, and then we build from there.
I walk through other shifts totake and then I from there I
kind of act as likeaccountability and practical
support in like building what isyour schedule look like?
What can it look like in thisseason?
Because what it would look likefor a brand new mom is going to
look vastly different than whatit looks like for me right now
(06:02):
with a six and five year old.
And what it looks like forsomeone who has, you know, child
care support is going to lookvastly different than what it
looks like for me right now witha six and five year old.
And what it looks like forsomeone who has, you know,
childcare support is going tolook vastly different than
someone who doesn't.
So I help them kind of find allthose things and put the pieces
together for what theirpractical stuff can look like
and then help them kind ofmanage their own coping skills
and stuff to keep their coolwhile they're doing all of this
(06:24):
so that they can grow theirbusinesses and they can do all
the family stuff and have allthat.
But my biggest key that Ialways tell people in my
messaging and in coaching andstuff is you can have it all.
You just can't do it all, andthere's a very big difference
there.
Mel (06:39):
Yes, yeah, definitely, and I think also setting realistic
expectations as well and justgoing.
You can even in that you canhave it all eventually.
Candice (06:57):
and also with expectations, like there is the
shift that has to happen of someof our expectations.
Sometimes and that's anotherthing I do talk to clients about
it's like well, let's look atyour expectations and again, the
season of life you're in, andhow are we going to put those in
so that we can scale them maybe?
Or we can, because sometimes wejust we don't even think about.
(07:20):
Sometimes we don't even knowwhat our expectations are until
they're not met and we'redisappointed.
And then we think, oh, Ithought this was going to be
something different, but Ididn't actually think about it.
Mel (07:31):
A hundred percent, and it happens all the time when you
start off with a new client andthere's sort of the expectations
at the start of where they wantto be in like three months time
or wherever, and then along theway it's like, oh, hang on a
second, maybe I don'tparticularly want to go that way
, or all these other things havecome up that I actually want to
(07:53):
focus on more.
First, things shift, thingschange and that as well, and I
think it is important to beadaptable as well and just go.
You know what.
It's okay if my expectationschange, and I thought this was
my dream or this is why balance,but it actually turns out the
thing over.
There is actually more what I'mafter, and I think it's
(08:15):
important to reevaluate as yougo and acknowledge it's okay to
put some things to bed and justlet it be and then fight for the
other things, go for the otherthings, and that's, I guess, you
as a coach and me as a coach,what we help draw out along the
way, because a lot of the time,until you really start digging
(08:37):
deep, you don't even moveanywhere, you don't really get
started, you don't know what youwant.
Candice (08:44):
I think that's so true.
I also think it's true it'skind of there's several
different camps, but two reallybig ones are that you don't know
what you want, like you justsaid.
And then there's the peoplethat do kind of want to shift
right.
They see, oh, it is somethingover here, but they really do
feed into the sunk cost fallacy,not even necessarily for money
but for time.
(09:05):
But I spent so much time andenergy going this direction.
What are people going to thinkif I pull back?
What are people going to thinkif I turn around?
Or what am I losing?
And it's an amazing thing oncewe realize I just get to take
what I've learned from this pathand put it over here.
Mel (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Oh, that's so good.
So what do you find is the mainthing that holds these women
back in being able to breakthrough or move forward, maybe
keeps them stuck in burnout?
What do you think is the mainmain pain point and issue there?
There's a couple of differentones, but one of the biggest one
is that getting stuck point andissue there.
Candice (09:43):
There's a couple of different ones, but one of the
biggest one is that gettingstuck on autopilot thing.
I was actually talking to acouple of different clients
about this recently, not evenjust in my coaching practice,
but I see this, I have seen thistime and again in the past 10
years that I've been a therapist.
People just get stuck inautopilot where they think, well
, this is just how it is, thisis just how it's always been and
(10:05):
this is the pattern we've gotstuck in.
And I don't know the step toget us out of this, I don't know
the and so they kind of sitthere and either don't make
decisions, or they makedecisions they think will help,
but again they haven't reallythought about their expectations
or priorities or values.
So what they think is going tohelp in that moment isn't, and
(10:27):
so they just get stuck onautopilot.
I think that's a really big one.
And then another big one isthat expectation reality
mismatch.
Those two things really do keepwomen stuck, because unless we
can sit down and evaluate, ourbrain is just going to do what
it's going to do.
It's just going to go whereit's always gone.
Mel (10:49):
Yeah, and it will default to the path of least resistance.
Exactly yeah.
And it was interesting.
I had another client.
Sorry to sort of jump in andsteal something here, but I had
another client the other nightand I was giving her some
practical ways that she couldeven just do her laundry a
little bit differently, becausethat was a big pain point for
(11:10):
her, and I gave her a few thingsthat were little tweaks that
were actually going to make whatshe does so much easier.
But she kept on saying oh, butI've always done it like this
and I do it like this.
I'm like, yeah, but is thatworking for you?
No, it's not.
I'm like so are you willing totry the?
(11:30):
way that I suggested to see ifthat's going to work.
And then you're like, oh, Iguess that's why I'm here.
I'm like, yeah, it is.
So you're right when you gointo that default autopilot.
But also, but I've always doneit this way, so it's really hard
to shift and change and dothings differently when it's
(11:54):
just so much comfortable andeasier I say easier, you know,
in quotation marks it's so mucheasier doing it the way I've
always done it.
But when we really stop tothink about it the way we've
always done, it isn't asefficient or it is taking us
more time to do and costing usin other ways.
Candice (12:11):
It's not serving you in this season.
No.
Mel (12:14):
It's adding to the stress and the noise and the weight of
everything that you're trying toget done.
There's a better way to do itfor you that works specifically
for you.
It might not be better forsomeone else, but from
everything you're telling me andit's just it's important to
realize where we might actuallybe on autopilot and go okay,
(12:39):
hang on a second.
I haven't consciously thoughtabout this thing for a while.
Is this really serving me?
Candice (12:44):
Yeah, I completely agree.
One of the shifts that I dowork with my clients on is
moving into more intentionalways of doing things, like
intentional I call itintentional motherhood, but it
works.
In creative Like.
You need to be intentionalabout your business, intentional
about motherhood, like andbecause it does, it does take
intentional effort to make someof these changes or you will
(13:06):
have that resistance like youtalked about, and sometimes they
don't realize it's resistance,they're just but I've always
done it this way, or this is howthis specific person told me to
do it.
What if this other way doesn'twork?
And it's we think, well, isthis way working right now?
Mel (13:22):
yeah, I know and change is hard, it is hard and I
definitely acknowledge the factthat change isn't pleasant for
most people particularly whenyour schedule is tight, your
time is tight, your finances,everything else is kids running
around your feet asking forsnacks 24 hours a day, exactly
so you start to change things inthere and it can throw out
(13:46):
everything.
Well, that's what you thinkmight happen, and so it can be
really hard to change.
But I like that you, inparticular, focus on the burnout
and the balance.
And balance is a huge part ofwhat I do, because, even though
I use organizing as the meansfor it the end goal isn't to be
(14:08):
organized.
The end goal is to live a morebalanced life and to have a more
intentional life, to better ourrelationships and enjoy the
day-to-day, even the mundane, toenjoy it.
And when you're working withyour clients, with burnout and
balance, what would you saytheir main goals are that you're
(14:31):
seeing?
Candice (14:33):
Before I say that, I want to say I love the
organizing part because thathelps us create margin in our
day, whether it's organizing ourschedule, organizing our stuff
because I do talk to clientsabout both of those things.
Not as an organizer, I,actually I connect them with
other people that can do that,if that's what they need.
Yeah.
But I like that because you'recreating margin, and so I think
(14:53):
that is one big thing that theydo lack is that margin.
They fill it up with everything, yeah.
Mel (15:00):
And it also allows for for buffer, as you're saying like
the margin where, if thingsdon't go to plan or anything,
you can adapt easier becauseyou're not cluttered and filled
not just with stuff, butmentally you're able to think on
your feet a bit more and adaptand, yeah, just handle whatever
life throws at you a lot easier.
(15:22):
So anyway, sorry, okay, so canyou.
I'm sorry, could you repeat the?
Candice (15:26):
question though, Because my brain just went like
oh, there was a question and Idon't remember.
Mel (15:30):
So what was the question again?
What are you finding is sort ofthe biggest goal for those moms
when it comes to starting offwith the burnout but getting to
the balance?
What are you finding is theirmain goal?
Candice (15:45):
The main goal that I'm finding is what they're looking
for is a way to have somethingthat is theirs, to contribute to
their family while also beingpresent, fully present with it,
like be there for the growing upyears.
They don't want to have to likecall into their nine to five
because you know their child issick.
They want to be able to bethere for them, but they also
don't want to miss out on beingable to support themselves or
(16:07):
their family If things happen.
They want to have all of that,but we've been trained,
especially in Westerncivilizations, that it has to be
like a certain way to do thatand we're scared to step outside
of that.
So a lot of, a lot of them.
The goal is I want to find theway that this can work for me,
so that I can have something forme and contribute financially
(16:29):
while also actually being thepresent parent that I want to be
Be there for meals, be therefor either homeschooling or
extracurriculars if their kidsare in school, or be there to be
the soccer mom to take kidsaround, but while also
contributing to their family.
So the main goal is how do Ifind the thing that will do that
for me and do it withoutrunning myself ragged.
Mel (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can relate to that just with my own
story and, as I mentioned to youoff air before that, my
youngest is home sick, but he'ssleeping at the moment, which is
good.
But I wouldn't be able to haveall that flexibility in a
typical nine to five Right Allthe time, and it is great being
(17:12):
able to have something that ismine, that I'm creating as well
for me, because for so manyyears it's been mum, mum, mum,
mum, mum and it's nice, and Ialways liked going back to work
and that after that too, becauseit was part of being Mel, not
just mum Right exactly yeah, andI think from what you're saying
(17:33):
that these women are very muchthe same and being able to have
something that's theirs, that ispart of their identity, outside
of being a mom, but also get tobe more present as a mom and
show up better as a mom becauseI know I do.
When I can look after myself, Ican do things that fill me up.
(17:53):
I show up way better for mykids and my husband and my
parents and everyone else.
I think it's important to lookafter yourselves because for so
long it's almost like we've kindof still stuck in the 1950s in
some ways, where we're there tomake everyone else's life easier
(18:14):
and more smoothly and we putour needs last to better serve.
You know you'll get yourfulfillment from looking after
your husband right, yeah yeah, Imean, and I do to a degree, but
I also get a lot morefulfillment in actually being
able to address my own needs too, and my business is part of
(18:34):
that, and and I'm sure, forthese women, their businesses
are part of that.
That's what they need to feellike they're contributing to the
world outside of contributingthrough their family.
Candice (18:46):
It's how they don't lose themselves in motherhood or
business, and I like to thinkof it not as meeting our needs
first, but meeting them intandem, because if we don't meet
our needs, we can't meetanybody else's.
Mel (18:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Candice (18:59):
It's not exactly first it's.
Yeah it's in tandem, and theneverybody is kind of you know
happier more fulfilled, yeah,and that so.
Mel (19:10):
I agree.
Candice (19:10):
Yeah, because even then , even then, we have moments
where it's like, well, I'm still, I am going to have moments
where I do put my child first.
Yeah, you know, we all, as theyage.
We're going to have differentmoments like that.
So I just think of it as likewe're doing it in tandem with
them.
We're doing it in tandem.
Noah's needs are going unmethere.
(19:32):
Yes, we're all having needs methere.
I love that.
I love that.
Yes, we're all having needs methere.
Mel (19:35):
I love that.
I love that.
Yes, I'm going to use that.
That's good.
So if there was one thing thatyou would hope that moms out
there would know, particularlythese working moms, what's a
piece of advice or somethingthat you would love them to know
?
Candice (19:55):
I just want them to know that it is possible to have
it you just can't do everythingto get it and that they are
worth it.
Doing this for them is actuallyone of the best things they
could do for their kids.
Mel (20:06):
Yeah.
Candice (20:07):
And so that's what I would want them to know, because
when you show up in your best,they get the best of you.
Mel (20:15):
So yeah, I agree, I agree, and I've seen it for myself too.
So cause I didn't always lookafter myself, and so the kids
got the snappy end of me as well.
So it is so important to beable to look after yourself that
it helps meet their needs too.
Candice (20:34):
So I do agree.
Mel (20:37):
So, Candice, if there's a mom out there that would love to
connect with you, would love toknow more about what you're
doing.
Where can they find you?
What can you do to help them?
Candice (20:50):
Well, they can.
They can find me to learn moreum at Instagram or threads.
My handle is at soul,underscore, cadence, underscore
coaching.
On both of those, I do have acoaching program for creative
entrepreneur moms who arewanting to go from burnout to
balance and walk through thesesteps and have someone do it
(21:10):
with them, so they don't have tofigure it out alone and they
can learn more about that on myInstagram.
Mel (21:16):
Yeah.
Candice (21:16):
And yeah, so they'll reach out through there.
Mel (21:18):
Well, I'll make sure that the details are in the
description.
So just head to the descriptionif you need the details there
and you want to reach out toCandice.
But I think that's all we havetime for today.
But I really enjoyed theconversation.
I feel like we could keep going.
Candice (21:34):
Yes absolutely.
Mel (21:36):
I really enjoyed it.
Thank you for being on the show.
Candice (21:39):
Well, thank you for having me.
This was great.
I love talking about this stuff.
Mel (21:45):
Me too, and I just love that.
You're on the same path, in thesame lane as what I am, so
that's why I feel like I couldtalk to you forever.
So it's lovely to connect withyou, I agree.
So that's why I feel like Icould talk to you forever.
So it's lovely to connect withyou, I agree, all right, well,
thank you for coming on the showand we'll talk to you soon,
okay, thanks, if you loved thisepisode, don't forget to hit
(22:08):
subscribe so you don't misswhat's coming next.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram at @shes.
organised, or, for some freeresources, head over to
beyondorganised.
com/ toolkit.
Remember organising is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
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