June 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Ever wondered why decluttering feels so mentally freeing? In this illuminating conversation with professional organiser Caroline Thor, we discover how creating order in our physical spaces can transform our mental wellbeing and even our parenting style.
Caroline's journey began with a life-changing realisation when her daughter innocently asked, "Why are you a nicer mummy now?" after their home became more organised. This moment sparked not just a personal transformation but a career shift that now allows Caroline to help other families, particularly those navigating neurodiversity, find the same peace she discovered.
As a KonMari consultant and mother to three children (two with neurodivergent conditions), Caroline shares practical wisdom about creating systems that truly work for real families. She dispels the myth that organisation requires Instagram perfection or massive time commitments. Instead, she advocates for 15-minute decluttering sessions that make organisation accessible even to the busiest parents. Her refreshingly practical approach includes repurposing everyday items like Ferrero Rocher boxes rather than purchasing expensive storage solutions, making organisation both economical and sustainable.
What resonated most deeply was Caroline's insight that maintaining organisation is more about mindset than elaborate systems. Her simple mantra "put the damn thing away", prevents the accumulation of daily clutter that overwhelms so many families. For those struggling with the additional organisational challenges that come with ADHD and autism, these straightforward strategies offer a pathway to calmer, more functional homes.
Whether you're drowning in paperwork, struggling to maintain order or simply wanting to feel more peaceful in your space, Caroline's approach offers hope without overwhelming you with unrealistic expectations. Connect with her on Instagram @caro.thor or through her podcast "Living Clutter Free Forever" to continue your organisational journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mel (00:18):
Welcome to Beyond Organised , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Schenker, life coach,speaker, founder of She's
Organised and, more importantly,a wife and mum of four little
kids.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed, like you're constantly
juggling everything but neverquite catching up, this is the
place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like the
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome back to BeyondOrganised.
(01:02):
I have the lovely Caroline Thorwith us today.
I'll give you a quick rundownof who Caroline is and then you
can all give a warm welcome.
So Caroline is a professionalorganizer, KonMari consultant,
very exciting wife and mother ofthree, including one child with
autism, PDA and ADHD andanother with ADHD.
(01:25):
Drawing from her personalexperience and professional
expertise, caroline specializesin helping mums of neurodiverse
kids create organization systems, habits and routines that truly
work for their families.
She believes a tidy, functionalhome can transform mental
health and well-being,especially for families
navigating ADHD and autism.
(01:45):
As a KonMari consultant, shefollows Marie Kondo's principles
, focusing on sparking joy andcreating spaces that support an
ideal lifestyle.
Caroline also hosts the popularpodcast Living Clutter-Free
Forever, where she sharespractical decluttering advice,
organizing tips and strategies.
She also runs the growingonline membership Clutter-Free
(02:07):
Collective, supporting familiesin getting their homes
decluttered and organized.
Welcome Caroline, so good tohave you on the show.
Caroline (02:16):
Thank you, Mel.
Thank you for the invitation.
I'm excited to be here.
Mel (02:25):
Oh, you're welcome.
I'm so glad we got to connectand I've actually loved
following you on the socials,and I did listen to one of your
episodes a few weeks ago.
So good, yeah, just so excitedto have you here.
Caroline (02:34):
Thank you, excited to be here.
Mel (02:37):
Well getting into it.
What inspired you to start yourprofessional organizing journey
?
and KonMari consultant, that'sexciting
Caroline (02:48):
it actually started years and years ago when my kids
were little.
So they're now 17, 16 and 12but when they were all tiny,
like under five, I was super.
I was really disorganized.
I just felt like I was chasingmy tail all the time and I was a
(03:09):
really stressy mom.
I wasn't being the mom I wantedto be and one day I cause I
live in Germany even though I'mfrom the UK.
I got a copy of British GoodHousekeeping through the door
that someone had sent me andthere was this article about
Marie Kondo and her new book,the Life Changing Magic, and I
was like this sounds amazing.
And I got onto this platformthat we all use way too much,
(03:32):
ordered the book.
It was there the next day andit literally changed my life.
I became totally calm, incontrol.
I had not realized that it wasactually our home environment
that was causing me to feelstressed and overwhelmed.
And it wasn't until about ayear in, and we were getting
(03:53):
ready to leave the house and Iwas in the hall with all three
kids and we were getting theshoes on and the coats.
You know, it can be reallyfraught, it can be chaotic, and
it just happened.
Everything was in its rightplace.
I wasn't searching for stuffand suddenly my middle daughter
turned to me and she said whyare you a nicer mummy now?
(04:14):
oh, and I was just like oh mygoodness, light bulb yeah, light
bulb like this has beenlife-changing so fast forward I
was actually teaching music andrunning my own little business
at the time and fast forward tothe pandemic and I couldn't
(04:34):
teach.
I was like stuck at home and Ihappened to see online that they
were training people online tobe KonMari consultants.
I didn't even know this was athing I was like I said to my
husband I'm going to train andhe was like oh, here we go,
Another great idea.
I'm always having great ideas.
Mel (04:52):
Sounds like my husband.
I'm the same.
Caroline (04:56):
Yeah.
So I did the online training,which took three days.
I then had to work with aclient for a ridiculous number
of hours and do their whole homewith them and take an exam and
all the rest of it, and at theend of a year of doing that I
sold my other business and wentfull time into being a KonMari
(05:16):
consultant professionalorganizer.
But things haven't quite pannedout as I planned them to,
because my child with autismwent into burnout and it meant
that they couldn't leave thehouse and I couldn't leave the
house.
And this was just not longafter me becoming a consultant
(05:37):
and I wanted something that Icould do so that I could
continue supporting people intheir decluttering journeys, and
that's how my podcast cameabout.
It was like my way of puttingthe word out there and
supporting people, and it sortof snowballed from there into
online course, online membership.
It has become so much fun.
(05:58):
It fits with my family life,which is great, and then on
Saturdays and Sundays, when myhusband is home and can take
over the childcare, that's whenI go to people's homes and work
with them in their homes stillWow you still do that I do yes
and I love that.
I love that connection withpeople.
(06:18):
I feel really fortunate.
I love all aspects of it and Ilove the fact most that I'm
helping other women find thisclarity and peace that I found
and that, for me, is it's justworth it's gold yeah, it's
priceless, isn't it?
Mel (06:34):
it's just priceless.
Oh, that is such.
That is so.
I feel like your story is verysimilar to mine, though we've
gone about it very differently.
But yeah, I was that stress headmum as well, and just the thing
that broke me was when Iactually screamed at my kids.
(06:55):
I said this in an earlierepisode and I don't yell, I'm
not a yeller at all and this wasa number of years ago now, like
when my older ones were verylittle, and I actually screamed
because it was right beforeMother's Day event, which I was
hosting, and I didn't get tohave my own Mother's Day I'm
doing it for everyone else andI'd been cleaning for days,
(07:17):
cooking for days, and then theywent and just completely trashed
the powder room and I lost it,and I was that stress head mom
just because I went too far withthe organizing.
I went too far the other wayand I needed everything to be
perfect, and that's when it kindof went.
Hang on a second, I can't livelike this.
It's not fair on my kids andall of that.
(07:38):
And then it was a couple ofyears after that when I had
hosted another event, yearsafter that, when I had hosted
another event I think it was myhusband's 40th.
It was a bigger event and I wasokay and my kids were like, oh,
mum, you're not like, you'renot going wild, you're not
cracking it at us.
So I I can completely relate towhat you were saying when your
(08:01):
daughter was saying that,because I just yeah, and the
light bulb goes off and youthink, oh, wow, no, I really I
have come back to a betterbalance and got a good balance,
and getting on top of your homeis it's your every, every day,
it's every part of your life.
It is so critical having thingsjust balanced and in order in
(08:23):
your home to actually feeling atpeace.
Caroline (08:27):
It is priceless and I love what you said about
perfectionism, because that'sactually not something I've ever
struggled with.
It's good.
It's horrible and I feel very,very fortunate for that.
(08:49):
But what I'm driven by now ishelping women realize that you
don't need the perfect Instagramready home your home, and this
is where the KonMari method, Ithink, is great, because you
start off by visualizing yourideal lifestyle, so you're
creating a home that supportsthe life you want to live in.
If that doesn't measure up towhat everyone else thinks, bad,
luck as long as you feelcomfortable in your space, and
(09:10):
this is why I suddenly realizedI'd got to a place where our
home was organized enough for meto feel calm.
It was declutter, organizedenough for me to feel calm.
Yep, it was decluttered enoughfor me to feel calm and it
doesn't need to be any betterthan that.
And it doesn't look like youcould come in and take a photo
and post it in some magazine.
Oh, you are the same as me.
(09:31):
Yes, you know it gets messy.
I have three kids, two dogs,two cats.
It's life.
You live in the house.
Yeah, it's messy.
I have three kids, two dogs,two cats.
It's life.
You live in the house, yeah,and the kids should be able to
live and leave.
Leave things out that they'rein the middle of.
Yes, it should be tidied up atsome point.
But the great thing now iseveryone has an idea about or
not an idea.
(09:51):
Everyone knows where everythinggoes back to.
Mel (09:54):
Yeah, they're old it doesn't take too long, it
doesn't take long.
Caroline (09:57):
We do this 10 minute reset every evening, where
everyone helps out and takesback stuff and it's just.
Oh, it's life changing and Ithink especially for me, having,
um, neurodivergent kids, theamount of paperwork that brings
is phenomenal.
I think any parent, the amountof paperwork and emails and
(10:19):
everything that comes with thatis just crazy.
But the amount of paperwork andthe organization that you need
in order to attend meetings andall the rest of it to have that
in order so that you've not gotthis last minute stress of oh my
goodness, where's that piece ofpaper we need to take to this
meeting or where was the emailwhere they said that that is
just life-changing yeah oh, andI can relate to that my oldest
(10:44):
has ADHD as well.
Mel (10:45):
So I I do get it and you know the yeah, there's just all
the extras, there's all theextras.
And yeah, I've, you know, gotmy inbox sorted out and I've got
everything organised enough tobe able to find things quickly
when I need it and fill out theforms, and got the calendar on
(11:07):
the fridge working out when I'mdoing what.
I'm just so grateful it's onlyone out of four, you know.
But so you're on a whole otherlevel, like, how do you find you
know doing what you're doingwith the organizing and helping
other people, as well asjuggling your own family and
(11:29):
household and balancing theirneeds along with what you're
doing?
Caroline (11:34):
I'm very fortunate in that I'm not leaving the house
on a weekday to go to work.
Mel (11:41):
Like.
Caroline (11:41):
I can fit in my work around my family, so I get up in
the morning.
My two oldest kids leave thehouse by 6.30 in the morning
which sounds crazy to mostpeople, but they do and they get
themselves off to school, sothat's fine.
And then my youngest, who's theone with autism.
I need to drive them to school,but it's always a case of are
(12:04):
they going to go or aren't they?
I can't plan anything and Ican't plan any appointments in
the mornings and stuff in caseschool phone and they need
collecting.
So I am really flexible.
I have my three things that Ihave to do that day.
I have my three goals.
I'm the same, oh my gosh.
(12:27):
I have my three goals andusually two are for my business
and like move the needle thingsthat I'm working on, and one is
like a personal personal, yeah,and, and that could be something
to do with cleaning likesomething that I'm working on
and one is like a personal goal,and that could be something to
do with cleaning, like somethingthat I don't do very often
because I'm not very good atcleaning.
Mel (12:46):
Or you just don't like it, like who likes cleaning, nobody
likes it.
I mean, there's a littlesatisfaction sometimes with
vacuuming and it's like, oh, andthen the floor's clean again,
you know, but it goes veryquickly absolutely yeah, or it
might be something um healthrelated, like I'm going to go
for a walk today or whatever ithappens to be for yourself.
Caroline (13:06):
I can.
I can then see in the morningokay, he, they went to school.
Great, I now have this,hopefully, window of three, four
hours before I need to collectthem, which is the longest I
ever have, so I can come homeand I usually then work on my
business stuff and then theother things.
Once they're home, um, I canthen work around them, so if
(13:29):
they're in the space and thecleaning needs doing or whatever
it happens to be, and I canstill connect with them and be
with them.
And then I'll be very honest,and my husband and I were
talking about this last night.
I work most evenings because Idon't have the capacity during
the day to do all the thingsthat I want to do and need to do
for my business if I if I amgoing to grow it so once um, the
(13:53):
kids are sort of settled in theevening, and my oldest I mean,
they go to bed when we dothey're old enough to deal with
themselves.
If they make it out of theirbedrooms, it's a miracle I
wouldn't see them, even if I wassitting in the living room
watching TV.
Mel (14:08):
I wouldn't see them.
Caroline (14:08):
I don't have any guilt about it.
Typical teenager, hey, yeah, so, yeah.
So I do a few hours work in theevening if I need to.
I do a lot of my podcastrecordings in the evening, as
you are doing now, and that'show I sort of work it and
balance it.
And I don't believe in thiswork-life balance thing.
I don't think it exists, isalways going to be a phase where
(14:36):
work perhaps needs more timeand family then takes a slight
back seat.
But I mean, I'm not sayingignore your kids, but that
you've got the energy and thecapacity to put more into work.
And then there are other times,like when my kid was in burnout,
where that has to be my mainfocus and work has to take a
back burner, but I do feel veryprivileged that I have a job
(15:00):
that I can be totally flexiblearound.
I think if you're leaving thehouse in the morning to go to an
office and not coming homeuntil the evening, that is a
whole different ball game um,yeah, I know that too well um
yeah, and I feel really honouredthat I get to have this life
and that I am very aware of thefact it's a very fortunate
(15:22):
position to be in.
I can support my children in theway that they need at this
stage in their lives, becauseotherwise I wouldn't be able to
work at the moment, I couldn'tphysically leave the house and
go somewhere to work.
So I've sort of created this,my ideal lifestyle, if you like.
Mel (15:38):
Yeah, it's amazing that you can do that, that we live in
this day and age, and I thinkthat's probably the one good
thing that came out of COVID wasthe more flexibility for that
virtual working.
So when you're working withyour clients, so you still go to
their homes on the weekend.
What is that like?
(15:59):
Tell us a little bit about theinside of being a consultant and
what that does like insidepeople's homes if you're allowed
to share.
Caroline (16:08):
Yeah, no, it's, I love it One.
It's always fun and I canhonestly, hands on heart, say I
have never had a session with aclient that hasn't been fun.
And they will all also say it'sfun, which they didn't
anticipate it would be.
Who thought decluttering?
and organizing could beoverwhelming.
So fun is good, yeah, so we doalways manage to have fun.
(16:31):
I usually spend five hours in ablock with them and I work for
the whole five hours.
They can take a break when theyneed to, but I just work
through for the five hours in ablock with them and I work for
the whole five hours.
They can take a break when theyneed to, but I just work
through for the five hours, andit's always different, which is
what I love about it.
Some people would like to startwith the KonMari method at the
very beginning, as you should dowith clothes.
(16:51):
Other people, when they contactme, are just like my kitchen's
driving me nuts and I just haveto have my kitchen sorted out
first.
So we will I start.
I'm really flexible.
I'll start wherever the clienthas their biggest pain point, um
, and we do focus verydefinitely on the joy aspect of
it.
What do we?
We're not deciding what to letgo, we're deciding what to keep.
(17:14):
So it's like it's like what inyour kitchen do you use every
day?
What?
What do you love?
Um, and once we've decided whatthose items are, then the other
items can go.
So it's deciding what to keepand then letting go with
gratitude those things thatyou've decided are no longer
(17:34):
serving a purpose in your life.
Yeah, so that is really lovely.
And then the I've always findthe really fun bit is then
organizing it back into thespace.
Yes, and I know, I know and Iknow this from the people in my
membership as well when theywork on things, they're like
they keep going back afterwardsand opening the drawers.
Yeah, even if it's just yoursort of you, your usual junk
(18:00):
drawer, yeah, like the fact ofopening it and it's there's
order, heidi you can see what'sin it.
Yeah it's good and I.
The other thing I do as well isI always say to my clients that
they really shouldn't buy anyorganizing boxes or containers
or anything before we've donethe declutter, because usually
(18:21):
they've got enough containersleft.
Mel (18:24):
They've got enough space.
Caroline (18:25):
It can add to the clutter if you've got too many
containers left over and I rockup which they all find highly
entertaining with a massive bagfull of shoe boxes, small boxes
that I've saved from packagingFerrero Rocher boxes.
Do you have the?
Mel (18:42):
chocolates Ferrero Rocher.
Yes, yes, they're very handytrays, they are amazing.
Caroline (18:49):
And the lids as well, for like putting office drawers
for collecting stuff.
I actually have a lady in myvillage who collects them for me
from all her friends and thenevery few weeks I get a pile of
empty Ferrero Rocher.
So I try to be asenvironmentally friendly as
possible, that we're not goingout and buying loads of new
plastic.
(19:09):
We're repurposing stuff, um,and I find I love that challenge
to to try and do the wholething without costing them any
extra money.
Mel (19:18):
That I love, yeah, and it so far it's worked yeah, and
plus then you get used to thecontainers and the sizes and you
know what fits in it and itmakes life easier when you work
with the same kind of materials.
So exactly exactly that's sogood.
So in your experienceexperience working online, now
(19:39):
sort of moving more into thatspace what do you think is sort
of the main challenge thatyou're people face?
I know what I'm seeing, butwhat are you seeing in your
space that you think is sort ofthe biggest challenge around
organizing that people face?
Caroline (19:57):
I think there are two in my experience.
The first one is just notknowing where to start.
They just feel so overwhelmedlooking at the space that it's
like I don't even know what thefirst thing I should do is.
And this sort of they freezeand then it's easier not to even
(20:18):
start.
So that is the first thing.
And then the second thing,which is very genuine from
everybody, is they genuinelydon't think they have time to do
it.
They genuinely don't think theyhave time, and that has been.
I think my biggest challengehas been helping people
understand that you don't needto spend five hours in one go.
(20:41):
Yes, my clients when I go tothem in their home, that's a
real luxury that you can startand finish a space in five hours
.
But the reality for most of usat home is that we perhaps have
got 15 minutes here or there.
So what I am really focused on,especially in my online
membership, is that we are using15 minutes when we get them.
(21:04):
If we put the pasta on to boilfor 15 minutes, I passed it far
too long, I know.
Mel (21:10):
Um everyone keeps going, it's not 15 minutes, it's 12.
Caroline (21:14):
I'm like no, I didn't mind.
Um, when you, when you findyou've set something off, or
you've set the washing machineoff or whatever, then what can
you do while you're waiting forthat to finish?
Mel (21:25):
oh, you are me.
Caroline (21:27):
Yeah, I say the same thing yeah, that's so good, and
what we tend to do these days,sadly, is we get our phone out
and start scrolling through it.
Yep doom scrolling, doomscrolling and and what are we
doom scrolling images ofbeautiful houses that make us
feel like we're not good enough.
Yeah, all the rest of it.
So we I work really on15-minute blocks for everything
(21:52):
and it really has made a hugedifference in everyone's lives
that I've been working with,that they are getting through so
much stuff because 15 minutesfeels manageable.
And the lovely thing is youdon't think like, oh, this is
going to take hours, like I'mactually set a timer and stop
after 15 minutes.
You stole what?
Mel (22:13):
I was about to say, yeah, I was going to say, well, another
thing that I do, along withthat, is a stopwatch instead of
a timer, because the amount ofpeople that go, oh, it takes me
too long to do this, too long todo that, blah, blah, blah.
And then I say, well, set astopwatch and actually see how
(22:38):
long it does take you.
Because there was this one ladythat was just she kept putting
off making a bed every day.
Look, it's up to people if theywant to make their bed or not,
you know to say, but she wantedto do it, she wanted to have her
room organized and all thiskind of stuff, but she kept
putting it off because it's like, ah, it takes too long.
She set a timer, took her about50 seconds, and she could do
that while the kettle wasboiling.
(22:59):
Yeah, you know.
So it's using that time, as yousaid.
You know it's doing otherthings at the same time while
you're waiting for something.
And so she'd go make her bedwhile the kettle was boiling to
make her tea, and it was done.
And then she's like, oh, mygoodness, I've been putting this
off for years because it's likeit was like that's too hard, I
(23:21):
don't have the energy.
It takes too long, because inher head she thought it took her
15 minutes, yeah, but realityis a lot of these things don't
actually take as long as what wethink they do.
So if you are someone thatthinks I don't have the time
because it's going to take toolong, well, I challenge you to
set a stopwatch and actually seehow long it takes.
(23:43):
Maybe it does.
Maybe it takes as long as youthink it does, but chances are
with these littler things, itdoes not take as long as you
think it does.
Caroline (23:52):
So definitely yeah, and I think the other thing that
, um, because you asked what,what I find that they find
difficult, I think, once thedecluttering and organizing is
done, the being able to maintainit yeah they're not believing
that it can stay like this, andthat's why, actually, my whole
(24:13):
membership is actually more todo with mindset.
Yeah, love it like james.
Clear atomic habits, all thatsort of habit, stacking um all
like so that, and we have.
We have this thing in mymembership which everyone finds
highly amusing.
We have like every few weeks wehave a put the damn thing away
(24:37):
week, because how often do weuse something and think I
haven't got time to put thisaway now.
I'll do it later.
Mel (24:44):
Well then, later we get distracted.
Caroline (24:48):
And by the end of the week, all the things that we
haven't had time to put away arelying around.
And what are they?
Their clutter, I know.
I've got a lovely lady in mymembership who actually lives in
Denmark and she said she wasout on her balcony the other
week pruning some plants.
She looked down and saw thatthe guy had come to to check the
water thing and whatever.
He was getting out of his vanand she was about to put the the
(25:10):
scissors down that she'd beenusing and she actually said out
loud to herself in English putit away.
Yay and so.
And she said it took me like 30seconds to put the scissors
away and I still had time to goto the door and greet.
Oh I, I had more than time togo to it because you have to get
(25:31):
up the stairs.
So like, like these are the sortof things that I and I'm when
I'm working with my clients intheir homes and we're we're
organizing and decluttering,we're talking about all these
things at the same time and I'mI'm sort of helping them see how
, when we finished, what theycan do in order to maintain it,
because I don't want, in sixmonths time, a phone call saying
(25:53):
, well, that didn't work.
I'm back to square one againand I can hand on heart say that
that that has never happened,and I do stay in touch with
people.
So, um, yeah, so that's fun.
Mel (26:05):
Ah, I love that.
I love that.
I just I feel like the we keeptalking, the more I'm just like
I swear we're the same person.
The stuff we keep going withit's a different continent, oh,
totally different parts of theworld and a slightly different
audience, but not by much.
So I think we've got more aheadof us together.
(26:27):
I reckon I'm really enjoyingthis.
So I guess, probably to morewrap it up, where can people
find you, what?
What can they do like if theywant to hear you?
I know you've got your podcaston the um living clutter free
forever socials.
Let us know where, where we canfind you.
(26:50):
Yeah the.
Caroline (26:51):
The podcast is um is sort of the main place where I'm
putting content out every week,um, although I am on um
instagram every day.
We are my handle.
There is carothor, um, and thenI have my website which people
can visit and that'scaroline-thorcom, and there you
(27:13):
can find everything.
Mel (27:15):
I'll pop it in the description so everyone can find
you properly.
But it has been an absolutepleasure talking with you.
I almost forgot that everyoneelse is going to be listening
into our conversation.
I enjoyed it so much.
Yeah, me too.
Thank you for coming on, and Iwill be sure to keep following
(27:40):
you on Instagram and listeningto your podcast and I encourage
everyone else to do it too soyou'll get a lot, a lot, from
Caroline.
Thank you, appreciate that.
Talk to you soon.
Caroline (27:52):
Yeah, thanks, bye.
Mel (27:54):
If you loved this episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so
you don't miss what's comingnext.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram at @shes.
organised, or, for some freeresources, head over to
beyondorganised.
com toolkit.
Remember, organising is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
Welcome to Beyond Organised , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Schenker, life coach,speaker, founder of She's
Organised and, more importantly,a wife and mum of four little
kids.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed, like you're constantly
juggling everything but neverquite catching up, this is the
place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like the
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome back to BeyondOrganised.
(01:02):
I have the lovely Caroline Thorwith us today.
I'll give you a quick rundownof who Caroline is and then you
can all give a warm welcome.
So Caroline is a professionalorganizer, KonMari consultant,
very exciting wife and mother ofthree, including one child with
autism, PDA and ADHD andanother with ADHD.
(01:25):
Drawing from her personalexperience and professional
expertise, caroline specializesin helping mums of neurodiverse
kids create organization systems, habits and routines that truly
work for their families.
She believes a tidy, functionalhome can transform mental
health and well-being,especially for families
navigating ADHD and autism.
(01:45):
As a KonMari consultant, shefollows Marie Kondo's principles
, focusing on sparking joy andcreating spaces that support an
ideal lifestyle.
Caroline also hosts the popularpodcast Living Clutter-Free
Forever, where she sharespractical decluttering advice,
organizing tips and strategies.
She also runs the growingonline membership Clutter-Free
(02:07):
Collective, supporting familiesin getting their homes
decluttered and organized.
Welcome Caroline, so good tohave you on the show.
Caroline (02:16):
Thank you, Mel.
Thank you for the invitation.
I'm excited to be here.
Mel (02:25):
Oh, you're welcome.
I'm so glad we got to connectand I've actually loved
following you on the socials,and I did listen to one of your
episodes a few weeks ago.
So good, yeah, just so excitedto have you here.
Caroline (02:34):
Thank you, excited to be here.
Mel (02:37):
Well getting into it.
What inspired you to start yourprofessional organizing journey
?
and KonMari consultant, that'sexciting
Caroline (02:48):
it actually started years and years ago when my kids
were little.
So they're now 17, 16 and 12but when they were all tiny,
like under five, I was super.
I was really disorganized.
I just felt like I was chasingmy tail all the time and I was a
(03:09):
really stressy mom.
I wasn't being the mom I wantedto be and one day I cause I
live in Germany even though I'mfrom the UK.
I got a copy of British GoodHousekeeping through the door
that someone had sent me andthere was this article about
Marie Kondo and her new book,the Life Changing Magic, and I
was like this sounds amazing.
And I got onto this platformthat we all use way too much,
(03:32):
ordered the book.
It was there the next day andit literally changed my life.
I became totally calm, incontrol.
I had not realized that it wasactually our home environment
that was causing me to feelstressed and overwhelmed.
And it wasn't until about ayear in, and we were getting
(03:53):
ready to leave the house and Iwas in the hall with all three
kids and we were getting theshoes on and the coats.
You know, it can be reallyfraught, it can be chaotic, and
it just happened.
Everything was in its rightplace.
I wasn't searching for stuffand suddenly my middle daughter
turned to me and she said whyare you a nicer mummy now?
(04:14):
oh, and I was just like oh mygoodness, light bulb yeah, light
bulb like this has beenlife-changing so fast forward I
was actually teaching music andrunning my own little business
at the time and fast forward tothe pandemic and I couldn't
(04:34):
teach.
I was like stuck at home and Ihappened to see online that they
were training people online tobe KonMari consultants.
I didn't even know this was athing I was like I said to my
husband I'm going to train andhe was like oh, here we go,
Another great idea.
I'm always having great ideas.
Mel (04:52):
Sounds like my husband.
I'm the same.
Caroline (04:56):
Yeah.
So I did the online training,which took three days.
I then had to work with aclient for a ridiculous number
of hours and do their whole homewith them and take an exam and
all the rest of it, and at theend of a year of doing that I
sold my other business and wentfull time into being a KonMari
(05:16):
consultant professionalorganizer.
But things haven't quite pannedout as I planned them to,
because my child with autismwent into burnout and it meant
that they couldn't leave thehouse and I couldn't leave the
house.
And this was just not longafter me becoming a consultant
(05:37):
and I wanted something that Icould do so that I could
continue supporting people intheir decluttering journeys, and
that's how my podcast cameabout.
It was like my way of puttingthe word out there and
supporting people, and it sortof snowballed from there into
online course, online membership.
It has become so much fun.
(05:58):
It fits with my family life,which is great, and then on
Saturdays and Sundays, when myhusband is home and can take
over the childcare, that's whenI go to people's homes and work
with them in their homes stillWow you still do that I do yes
and I love that.
I love that connection withpeople.
(06:18):
I feel really fortunate.
I love all aspects of it and Ilove the fact most that I'm
helping other women find thisclarity and peace that I found
and that, for me, is it's justworth it's gold yeah, it's
priceless, isn't it?
Mel (06:34):
it's just priceless.
Oh, that is such.
That is so.
I feel like your story is verysimilar to mine, though we've
gone about it very differently.
But yeah, I was that stress headmum as well, and just the thing
that broke me was when Iactually screamed at my kids.
(06:55):
I said this in an earlierepisode and I don't yell, I'm
not a yeller at all and this wasa number of years ago now, like
when my older ones were verylittle, and I actually screamed
because it was right beforeMother's Day event, which I was
hosting, and I didn't get tohave my own Mother's Day I'm
doing it for everyone else andI'd been cleaning for days,
(07:17):
cooking for days, and then theywent and just completely trashed
the powder room and I lost it,and I was that stress head mom
just because I went too far withthe organizing.
I went too far the other wayand I needed everything to be
perfect, and that's when it kindof went.
Hang on a second, I can't livelike this.
It's not fair on my kids andall of that.
(07:38):
And then it was a couple ofyears after that when I had
hosted another event, yearsafter that, when I had hosted
another event I think it was myhusband's 40th.
It was a bigger event and I wasokay and my kids were like, oh,
mum, you're not like, you'renot going wild, you're not
cracking it at us.
So I I can completely relate towhat you were saying when your
(08:01):
daughter was saying that,because I just yeah, and the
light bulb goes off and youthink, oh, wow, no, I really I
have come back to a betterbalance and got a good balance,
and getting on top of your homeis it's your every, every day,
it's every part of your life.
It is so critical having thingsjust balanced and in order in
(08:23):
your home to actually feeling atpeace.
Caroline (08:27):
It is priceless and I love what you said about
perfectionism, because that'sactually not something I've ever
struggled with.
It's good.
It's horrible and I feel very,very fortunate for that.
(08:49):
But what I'm driven by now ishelping women realize that you
don't need the perfect Instagramready home your home, and this
is where the KonMari method, Ithink, is great, because you
start off by visualizing yourideal lifestyle, so you're
creating a home that supportsthe life you want to live in.
If that doesn't measure up towhat everyone else thinks, bad,
luck as long as you feelcomfortable in your space, and
(09:10):
this is why I suddenly realizedI'd got to a place where our
home was organized enough for meto feel calm.
It was declutter, organizedenough for me to feel calm.
Yep, it was decluttered enoughfor me to feel calm and it
doesn't need to be any betterthan that.
And it doesn't look like youcould come in and take a photo
and post it in some magazine.
Oh, you are the same as me.
(09:31):
Yes, you know it gets messy.
I have three kids, two dogs,two cats.
It's life.
You live in the house.
Yeah, it's messy.
I have three kids, two dogs,two cats.
It's life.
You live in the house, yeah,and the kids should be able to
live and leave.
Leave things out that they'rein the middle of.
Yes, it should be tidied up atsome point.
But the great thing now iseveryone has an idea about or
not an idea.
(09:51):
Everyone knows where everythinggoes back to.
Mel (09:54):
Yeah, they're old it doesn't take too long, it
doesn't take long.
Caroline (09:57):
We do this 10 minute reset every evening, where
everyone helps out and takesback stuff and it's just.
Oh, it's life changing and Ithink especially for me, having,
um, neurodivergent kids, theamount of paperwork that brings
is phenomenal.
I think any parent, the amountof paperwork and emails and
(10:19):
everything that comes with thatis just crazy.
But the amount of paperwork andthe organization that you need
in order to attend meetings andall the rest of it to have that
in order so that you've not gotthis last minute stress of oh my
goodness, where's that piece ofpaper we need to take to this
meeting or where was the emailwhere they said that that is
just life-changing yeah oh, andI can relate to that my oldest
(10:44):
has ADHD as well.
Mel (10:45):
So I I do get it and you know the yeah, there's just all
the extras, there's all theextras.
And yeah, I've, you know, gotmy inbox sorted out and I've got
everything organised enough tobe able to find things quickly
when I need it and fill out theforms, and got the calendar on
(11:07):
the fridge working out when I'mdoing what.
I'm just so grateful it's onlyone out of four, you know.
But so you're on a whole otherlevel, like, how do you find you
know doing what you're doingwith the organizing and helping
other people, as well asjuggling your own family and
(11:29):
household and balancing theirneeds along with what you're
doing?
Caroline (11:34):
I'm very fortunate in that I'm not leaving the house
on a weekday to go to work.
Mel (11:41):
Like.
Caroline (11:41):
I can fit in my work around my family, so I get up in
the morning.
My two oldest kids leave thehouse by 6.30 in the morning
which sounds crazy to mostpeople, but they do and they get
themselves off to school, sothat's fine.
And then my youngest, who's theone with autism.
I need to drive them to school,but it's always a case of are
(12:04):
they going to go or aren't they?
I can't plan anything and Ican't plan any appointments in
the mornings and stuff in caseschool phone and they need
collecting.
So I am really flexible.
I have my three things that Ihave to do that day.
I have my three goals.
I'm the same, oh my gosh.
(12:27):
I have my three goals andusually two are for my business
and like move the needle thingsthat I'm working on, and one is
like a personal personal, yeah,and, and that could be something
to do with cleaning likesomething that I'm working on
and one is like a personal goal,and that could be something to
do with cleaning, like somethingthat I don't do very often
because I'm not very good atcleaning.
Mel (12:46):
Or you just don't like it, like who likes cleaning, nobody
likes it.
I mean, there's a littlesatisfaction sometimes with
vacuuming and it's like, oh, andthen the floor's clean again,
you know, but it goes veryquickly absolutely yeah, or it
might be something um healthrelated, like I'm going to go
for a walk today or whatever ithappens to be for yourself.
Caroline (13:06):
I can.
I can then see in the morningokay, he, they went to school.
Great, I now have this,hopefully, window of three, four
hours before I need to collectthem, which is the longest I
ever have, so I can come homeand I usually then work on my
business stuff and then theother things.
Once they're home, um, I canthen work around them, so if
(13:29):
they're in the space and thecleaning needs doing or whatever
it happens to be, and I canstill connect with them and be
with them.
And then I'll be very honest,and my husband and I were
talking about this last night.
I work most evenings because Idon't have the capacity during
the day to do all the thingsthat I want to do and need to do
for my business if I if I amgoing to grow it so once um, the
(13:53):
kids are sort of settled in theevening, and my oldest I mean,
they go to bed when we dothey're old enough to deal with
themselves.
If they make it out of theirbedrooms, it's a miracle I
wouldn't see them, even if I wassitting in the living room
watching TV.
Mel (14:08):
I wouldn't see them.
Caroline (14:08):
I don't have any guilt about it.
Typical teenager, hey, yeah, so, yeah.
So I do a few hours work in theevening if I need to.
I do a lot of my podcastrecordings in the evening, as
you are doing now, and that'show I sort of work it and
balance it.
And I don't believe in thiswork-life balance thing.
I don't think it exists, isalways going to be a phase where
(14:36):
work perhaps needs more timeand family then takes a slight
back seat.
But I mean, I'm not sayingignore your kids, but that
you've got the energy and thecapacity to put more into work.
And then there are other times,like when my kid was in burnout,
where that has to be my mainfocus and work has to take a
back burner, but I do feel veryprivileged that I have a job
(15:00):
that I can be totally flexiblearound.
I think if you're leaving thehouse in the morning to go to an
office and not coming homeuntil the evening, that is a
whole different ball game um,yeah, I know that too well um
yeah, and I feel really honouredthat I get to have this life
and that I am very aware of thefact it's a very fortunate
(15:22):
position to be in.
I can support my children in theway that they need at this
stage in their lives, becauseotherwise I wouldn't be able to
work at the moment, I couldn'tphysically leave the house and
go somewhere to work.
So I've sort of created this,my ideal lifestyle, if you like.
Mel (15:38):
Yeah, it's amazing that you can do that, that we live in
this day and age, and I thinkthat's probably the one good
thing that came out of COVID wasthe more flexibility for that
virtual working.
So when you're working withyour clients, so you still go to
their homes on the weekend.
What is that like?
(15:59):
Tell us a little bit about theinside of being a consultant and
what that does like insidepeople's homes if you're allowed
to share.
Caroline (16:08):
Yeah, no, it's, I love it One.
It's always fun and I canhonestly, hands on heart, say I
have never had a session with aclient that hasn't been fun.
And they will all also say it'sfun, which they didn't
anticipate it would be.
Who thought decluttering?
and organizing could beoverwhelming.
So fun is good, yeah, so we doalways manage to have fun.
(16:31):
I usually spend five hours in ablock with them and I work for
the whole five hours.
They can take a break when theyneed to, but I just work
through for the five hours in ablock with them and I work for
the whole five hours.
They can take a break when theyneed to, but I just work
through for the five hours, andit's always different, which is
what I love about it.
Some people would like to startwith the KonMari method at the
very beginning, as you should dowith clothes.
(16:51):
Other people, when they contactme, are just like my kitchen's
driving me nuts and I just haveto have my kitchen sorted out
first.
So we will I start.
I'm really flexible.
I'll start wherever the clienthas their biggest pain point, um
, and we do focus verydefinitely on the joy aspect of
it.
What do we?
We're not deciding what to letgo, we're deciding what to keep.
(17:14):
So it's like it's like what inyour kitchen do you use every
day?
What?
What do you love?
Um, and once we've decided whatthose items are, then the other
items can go.
So it's deciding what to keepand then letting go with
gratitude those things thatyou've decided are no longer
(17:34):
serving a purpose in your life.
Yeah, so that is really lovely.
And then the I've always findthe really fun bit is then
organizing it back into thespace.
Yes, and I know, I know and Iknow this from the people in my
membership as well when theywork on things, they're like
they keep going back afterwardsand opening the drawers.
Yeah, even if it's just yoursort of you, your usual junk
(18:00):
drawer, yeah, like the fact ofopening it and it's there's
order, heidi you can see what'sin it.
Yeah it's good and I.
The other thing I do as well isI always say to my clients that
they really shouldn't buy anyorganizing boxes or containers
or anything before we've donethe declutter, because usually
(18:21):
they've got enough containersleft.
Mel (18:24):
They've got enough space.
Caroline (18:25):
It can add to the clutter if you've got too many
containers left over and I rockup which they all find highly
entertaining with a massive bagfull of shoe boxes, small boxes
that I've saved from packagingFerrero Rocher boxes.
Do you have the?
Mel (18:42):
chocolates Ferrero Rocher.
Yes, yes, they're very handytrays, they are amazing.
Caroline (18:49):
And the lids as well, for like putting office drawers
for collecting stuff.
I actually have a lady in myvillage who collects them for me
from all her friends and thenevery few weeks I get a pile of
empty Ferrero Rocher.
So I try to be asenvironmentally friendly as
possible, that we're not goingout and buying loads of new
plastic.
(19:09):
We're repurposing stuff, um,and I find I love that challenge
to to try and do the wholething without costing them any
extra money.
Mel (19:18):
That I love, yeah, and it so far it's worked yeah, and
plus then you get used to thecontainers and the sizes and you
know what fits in it and itmakes life easier when you work
with the same kind of materials.
So exactly exactly that's sogood.
So in your experienceexperience working online, now
(19:39):
sort of moving more into thatspace what do you think is sort
of the main challenge thatyou're people face?
I know what I'm seeing, butwhat are you seeing in your
space that you think is sort ofthe biggest challenge around
organizing that people face?
Caroline (19:57):
I think there are two in my experience.
The first one is just notknowing where to start.
They just feel so overwhelmedlooking at the space that it's
like I don't even know what thefirst thing I should do is.
And this sort of they freezeand then it's easier not to even
(20:18):
start.
So that is the first thing.
And then the second thing,which is very genuine from
everybody, is they genuinelydon't think they have time to do
it.
They genuinely don't think theyhave time, and that has been.
I think my biggest challengehas been helping people
understand that you don't needto spend five hours in one go.
(20:41):
Yes, my clients when I go tothem in their home, that's a
real luxury that you can startand finish a space in five hours
.
But the reality for most of usat home is that we perhaps have
got 15 minutes here or there.
So what I am really focused on,especially in my online
membership, is that we are using15 minutes when we get them.
(21:04):
If we put the pasta on to boilfor 15 minutes, I passed it far
too long, I know.
Mel (21:10):
Um everyone keeps going, it's not 15 minutes, it's 12.
Caroline (21:14):
I'm like no, I didn't mind.
Um, when you, when you findyou've set something off, or
you've set the washing machineoff or whatever, then what can
you do while you're waiting forthat to finish?
Mel (21:25):
oh, you are me.
Caroline (21:27):
Yeah, I say the same thing yeah, that's so good, and
what we tend to do these days,sadly, is we get our phone out
and start scrolling through it.
Yep doom scrolling, doomscrolling and and what are we
doom scrolling images ofbeautiful houses that make us
feel like we're not good enough.
Yeah, all the rest of it.
So we I work really on15-minute blocks for everything
(21:52):
and it really has made a hugedifference in everyone's lives
that I've been working with,that they are getting through so
much stuff because 15 minutesfeels manageable.
And the lovely thing is youdon't think like, oh, this is
going to take hours, like I'mactually set a timer and stop
after 15 minutes.
You stole what?
Mel (22:13):
I was about to say, yeah, I was going to say, well, another
thing that I do, along withthat, is a stopwatch instead of
a timer, because the amount ofpeople that go, oh, it takes me
too long to do this, too long todo that, blah, blah, blah.
And then I say, well, set astopwatch and actually see how
(22:38):
long it does take you.
Because there was this one ladythat was just she kept putting
off making a bed every day.
Look, it's up to people if theywant to make their bed or not,
you know to say, but she wantedto do it, she wanted to have her
room organized and all thiskind of stuff, but she kept
putting it off because it's like, ah, it takes too long.
She set a timer, took her about50 seconds, and she could do
that while the kettle wasboiling.
(22:59):
Yeah, you know.
So it's using that time, as yousaid.
You know it's doing otherthings at the same time while
you're waiting for something.
And so she'd go make her bedwhile the kettle was boiling to
make her tea, and it was done.
And then she's like, oh, mygoodness, I've been putting this
off for years because it's likeit was like that's too hard, I
(23:21):
don't have the energy.
It takes too long, because inher head she thought it took her
15 minutes, yeah, but realityis a lot of these things don't
actually take as long as what wethink they do.
So if you are someone thatthinks I don't have the time
because it's going to take toolong, well, I challenge you to
set a stopwatch and actually seehow long it takes.
(23:43):
Maybe it does.
Maybe it takes as long as youthink it does, but chances are
with these littler things, itdoes not take as long as you
think it does.
Caroline (23:52):
So definitely yeah, and I think the other thing that
, um, because you asked what,what I find that they find
difficult, I think, once thedecluttering and organizing is
done, the being able to maintainit yeah they're not believing
that it can stay like this, andthat's why, actually, my whole
(24:13):
membership is actually more todo with mindset.
Yeah, love it like james.
Clear atomic habits, all thatsort of habit, stacking um all
like so that, and we have.
We have this thing in mymembership which everyone finds
highly amusing.
We have like every few weeks wehave a put the damn thing away
(24:37):
week, because how often do weuse something and think I
haven't got time to put thisaway now.
I'll do it later.
Mel (24:44):
Well then, later we get distracted.
Caroline (24:48):
And by the end of the week, all the things that we
haven't had time to put away arelying around.
And what are they?
Their clutter, I know.
I've got a lovely lady in mymembership who actually lives in
Denmark and she said she wasout on her balcony the other
week pruning some plants.
She looked down and saw thatthe guy had come to to check the
water thing and whatever.
He was getting out of his vanand she was about to put the the
(25:10):
scissors down that she'd beenusing and she actually said out
loud to herself in English putit away.
Yay and so.
And she said it took me like 30seconds to put the scissors
away and I still had time to goto the door and greet.
Oh I, I had more than time togo to it because you have to get
(25:31):
up the stairs.
So like, like these are the sortof things that I and I'm when
I'm working with my clients intheir homes and we're we're
organizing and decluttering,we're talking about all these
things at the same time and I'mI'm sort of helping them see how
, when we finished, what theycan do in order to maintain it,
because I don't want, in sixmonths time, a phone call saying
(25:53):
, well, that didn't work.
I'm back to square one againand I can hand on heart say that
that that has never happened,and I do stay in touch with
people.
So, um, yeah, so that's fun.
Mel (26:05):
Ah, I love that.
I love that.
I just I feel like the we keeptalking, the more I'm just like
I swear we're the same person.
The stuff we keep going withit's a different continent, oh,
totally different parts of theworld and a slightly different
audience, but not by much.
So I think we've got more aheadof us together.
(26:27):
I reckon I'm really enjoyingthis.
So I guess, probably to morewrap it up, where can people
find you, what?
What can they do like if theywant to hear you?
I know you've got your podcaston the um living clutter free
forever socials.
Let us know where, where we canfind you.
(26:50):
Yeah the.
Caroline (26:51):
The podcast is um is sort of the main place where I'm
putting content out every week,um, although I am on um
instagram every day.
We are my handle.
There is carothor, um, and thenI have my website which people
can visit and that'scaroline-thorcom, and there you
(27:13):
can find everything.
Mel (27:15):
I'll pop it in the description so everyone can find
you properly.
But it has been an absolutepleasure talking with you.
I almost forgot that everyoneelse is going to be listening
into our conversation.
I enjoyed it so much.
Yeah, me too.
Thank you for coming on, and Iwill be sure to keep following
(27:40):
you on Instagram and listeningto your podcast and I encourage
everyone else to do it too soyou'll get a lot, a lot, from
Caroline.
Thank you, appreciate that.
Talk to you soon.
Caroline (27:52):
Yeah, thanks, bye.
Mel (27:54):
If you loved this episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so
you don't miss what's comingnext.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram at @shes.
organised, or, for some freeresources, head over to
beyondorganised.
com toolkit.
Remember, organising is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
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