November 24, 2025 • 44 mins
We share Paul Butler’s journey from a pastor’s son to a bold witness who led a Christian metal band into bars and biker hangouts, then chose family over the spotlight. The throughline is simple: a father’s love, a mother’s support, and a life tuned to the Holy Spirit.
• early memories of a father’s steadfast love
• moving for a blind father’s training and starting over
• raised in church shaping conscience and choices
• public profession of faith and learning the Spirit’s nudge
• dyslexia, culture shock, and standing up for belief
• forming a secular band then returning to purpose
• party years, a dangerous roommate, and coming home
• mom-made flyers and launching King’s Cross
• ministry in bars and unexpected open doors
• marriage, instant fatherhood, and laying down the band
• Romans 8:28 guiding service over spotlight
• gratitude for parents and a call to reconcile
Father, we just we thank you. We we we thank you, Father, for this episode. We we we thank you, Father, for the testimonies that you've given us, but you're just working out those testimonies new every day. If there be anyone out there that has not yet received Jesus Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as Savior of their life and soul, I would just encourage you to say a prayer like this: Lord Jesus, I'm a sinner and I repent of my sins. I recognize that you died on the cross so that I could be forgiven. And I ask you to come into my life, forgive me and save my soul. Fill me with the power of your Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ's name and blood. Amen.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Welcome everyone to Beyond Sunday.
I am your host, Pastor Lee Day,and I pastor CFO Church, located
in Amelia, Virginia.
And I would like to take amoment and personally invite
each and every one of you tocome on by and worship the Lord
God Almighty with us.
Doors open at 9:30.
Service begins at 10 a.m.
On today's episode, sitting atthe table with me is a good
(00:30):
friend of mine.
He is a brother in Christ.
Paul Butler, how are you doingtoday, my brother?
Man, I am highly blessed, highlyfavored of the Lord.
Yes, amen.
Because you are in his hand.
Absolutely, brother.
In his hand.
Paul, there have been somereally amazing testimonies that
have come on to this show, andyours is going to be just as
(00:52):
powerful.
However, your testimony, brotherPaul, is going to come from a
different angle.
And that's what I love about it.
You were the first ever pastor'sson that has come on to share
your testimony.
So thank you for sitting at thetable with me today, brother.
Absolutely.
I am a totally honored pastor.
Before we get into yourtestimony, Paul, can you share a
memory?
(01:12):
Could you share a memory withyour dad that means so much to
you?
Because I know you've sharedwith me before how much you knew
you knew that your dad lovedyou.
Is there something specific thatstands out that's like your
go-to memory with your dad?
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I I think the uh the rocking chair incident when I
was an infant, which I don'tremember, but I was told the
story that dad was holding me inhis arms, rocking me in the
rocking chair.
And I guess he got a littlecarried away, but one of the
rockers on the rocking chairactually broke and we went
backwards.
Yeah.
(01:47):
And he held on to me, never letme go.
Praise God.
And that's a symbolic of myrelationship with my dad the
rest of my life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Amen.
He was right there for you.
Right there.
All the time.
Yes.
Letting you know that he lovedyou.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
And literally, I've got you, and I won't let you go.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Man, what what what a father-son relationship.
Oh, yeah.
When when you were a young boy,your dad's health took a turn
for the worse.
And the doctor said that yourdad was going to lose his
eyesight.
Yes.
At this point, you guys have tomove to Richmond, Virginia.
Yes.
In 1971.
Yes, sir.
So that your dad could betrained to live life blind.
(02:26):
Yes, sir.
What was the family goingthrough during this time?
What do you know about it?
SPEAKER_02 (02:31):
Well, it was it was very tough because uh dad
pastored a very small countrychurch.
We lived in a parsonage, andthere wasn't a lot of money.
So we were not able to come toRichmond and just purchase a
house and all that.
We had to come to Richmond andmove in with my grandfather
(02:53):
Butler, my my dad's father.
My grandmother had passed manyyears before.
And so we had to transition intohis life, move into his house,
and with nothing.
Mom didn't have a job, dad waswithout a job.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Starting all over.
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
Yeah.
So it now I was very little, butit was quite the transition.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
I'm sure it was.
From from first grade tocollege, you and your family
went in church.
Whenever the doors were open,y'all were there.
Y'all were there.
You eventually, though, you youwalk away uh from from living a
relationship faithful andobedient to the Lord, and you
hit the party scene for a whilein life.
(03:37):
But but before we get into thatpart of your testimony, would
you share how being raised inchurch and showing up every week
impacted your life and how itends up bringing you back to the
truth when you strayed away fromit?
Because I'm going to put thisverse out there.
Proverbs 22, 6 says, Train up achild in the way he should go.
(03:58):
Even when he is old, he will notdepart from it.
So how did how did your familybringing you to church every
time the doors were open, howdid it affect you later on in
life when you had strayed away?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Well, being raised up in the word, being raised up
around believers, people thatloved you because they love the
Lord, right?
As in Sunday school teachers,nursery workers, uh ushers, you
know, being in that atmosphere.
True, genuine Christian.
Absolutely.
And and you knew right fromwrong.
(04:31):
You knew the way it should be,not the way that it could be.
Right.
And so when you strayed, youalways knew what you were doing
was wrong.
SPEAKER_04 (04:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
It didn't feel right at all.
And it was more testing limits.
Yeah.
And then you just knew youneeded to get back in
relationship with the Lord.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so important to live thelife that you had been shown and
taught.
Yeah.
And know that's right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
Not a question, it's right.
Yeah.
You know.
That's right.
That's right.
Erica once read the followingstatement, Brother Paul, and it
it says this if you as theparent don't train your child in
the way they should go, there isa very real enemy that will.
Absolutely.
So that's that's our role.
That's our responsibility asparents.
(05:22):
I I once heard someone say, uh,as a parent, they said, I'm not
raising my child to be bestfriends with them right now.
SPEAKER_03 (05:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
I'm gonna raise them and discipline them in a way so
that when they're old enough toleave my home, it's someone that
I want to be friends with then.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I know parents that arecurrently raising young children
and they just want to be theirbest friends, but I look at
those types of children andthere's not much structure,
there's not much disciplinebecause mom and dad don't want
(05:50):
to break bad at times andcorrect things that need to be
corrected because they don'twant to hurt their feelings, you
know.
And man, I so line up with that,with with the theory of I'm not
raising my best friend rightnow.
I'm raising a child who I wantto one day be an outstanding
young man of the faith in thisworld, and and then I'll go be
friends with him.
That's right.
You know, then then I'll befriends with him.
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
There were times I actually thanked my dad later on
for discipline that he didearlier in my life that you
probably weren't a fan of itthose days.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Not at the time.
On October 19th, 1980, during arevival service, you made your
profession of faith.
What do you remember about thatnight in 1980?
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Well, the biggest deal of that was not that I
wasn't a Christian, it waspublicly declaring it.
Yeah, you know, Jesus hung on across publicly, yeah, with all
the worst that could ever be.
And all I was being asked is towalk forward during a church
(06:57):
service and present myself tothe congregation with my pastor
standing beside me.
Yeah, and yet I was terrifiedjust to walk up.
And so my pastor had come to methe week before and said, We've
got a revival, wonderful timefor you to go ahead and make
your profession of faith.
And I was like, Okay.
So I made the agreement, now I'mterrified.
(07:19):
So I sat near the front because,you know, hey, it's a shorter
walk.
That's right, and went on up.
And uh it was the most freeingthing because not only had I
made my profession of faith, butnow I knew, even though I knew I
was a Christian, I knew that myname was in the Lamb's book of
(07:40):
life.
Amen.
And I just celebrated so much.
Yeah, yeah.
It was official.
Absolutely.
It was official.
And then my dad, uh, being apastor, but not the pastor of
our home church, he actually gotto baptize me, which was
incredible.
What a blessing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
Absolutely.
That that I'm sure that that wasone of his top honors that he
that he ever participated in.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
Never, ever, ever forget that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that that that's awesome.
In in your testimony, BrotherPaul, it states that you first
felt the Holy Spirit in yourlife at youth camp.
Yes, sir.
How has your relationship withthe Holy Spirit impacted your
life even up to today?
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Well, once I could recognize the feeling of the
Holy Spirit, what it what it didinside of me, then I could
recognize it from there on.
Yeah.
And then I'm able to uh besensitive to the move of the
spirit and realize this isn'tme, this is God moving in me
(08:43):
through the Holy Spirit.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
That's how it's I I I love the term that you just
use there, sensitive to the HolySpirit.
Yeah.
So many people, I'm just goingto talk for a moment about not
being sensitive.
Let's talk about, you know,sometimes you can talk about the
opposite of something to figureout what something actually is,
right?
So someone who's not sensitiveto the Holy Spirit, they're the
person that's trying to do ittheir own way.
(09:05):
They're not yielding to what thespirit is leading them to do.
Uh, and therefore they can getto the point to where they're
not even listening anymore.
Right.
Because they become to the pointto where they just want to do it
their way and what they want todo.
But I love, I love that term,sensitive to the Holy Spirit,
meaning that you're alwayslistening and looking for what
the Lord God Almighty wants youto do.
(09:26):
Absolutely.
And how his spirit is trying toget you to go into that
direction.
But I think that if Christianswould be uh sensitive to the
Holy Spirit, man, there wouldbe, there would just be revival
across this land.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
You know, you you would have people loving their
neighbor as they're really trulycalled to love their neighbor.
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Understanding that their neighbor is whoever
they're around in the momentthat they're around them.
You know, it's not just theperson living in the physical
home right next door.
Right.
You know, we go to the grocerystore, we got neighbors around
us.
Right.
You know, so are we going to besensitive to what the Holy
Spirit is asking of us?
And to me, obedience just breedsmore obedience.
Right.
You know, the the the more we doyield to the calling of the
(10:06):
spirit, the more we're gonnabegin to hear the spirit calling
us to do other things.
Right.
Would you agree with that?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
We set our plan, yeah, but then God can change
that plan.
That's right.
And we have to be sensitive, asI said, to what he wants to be
done now.
SPEAKER_04 (10:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:23):
Like we were talking earlier.
Yeah.
We have a set schedule for ourSunday worship and praise and
all that.
But if the Lord speaks to you aspastor that this is more
important right now, then that'swhat we do.
Then that's what we do.
And we're being obedient to themove of the Holy Spirit.
And that's when ministry reallyhappens.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
Yeah.
Oh, amen, brother.
Like what nothing wrong withstructure.
Absolutely.
But we don't want to be sostructured that we miss what the
Spirit may want us to do alittle bit different today.
Right.
Right?
Just a little, a little bitdifferent.
And I think sometimes, and we'rewe're all guilty of this, myself
included, we go through our dayand we have things and tasks
that need to be done that ifwe're not careful, we've got
(11:05):
blinders on.
Yes.
Because we know we have toaccomplish this and we'll miss
people or divine appointments.
Yeah.
We'll miss things that God iscalling us to do because we know
that we've got to do this and dothis well.
And so, again, sensitive to theHoly Spirit.
Absolutely.
Amen.
SPEAKER_03 (11:22):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
When you were a teenager, um you were diagnosed
with dyslexia.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
And you ended up going to a different school that
was equipped to help you withthat.
SPEAKER_03 (11:32):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
You went through some culture shock at that at
that new school because theother students weren't like you.
Walk us through what that waslike and why.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Well, because it was a private school that was uh put
together by parents that haddyslexic children and they had
to bring in some really uhpowerful or knowledgeable
teachers that knew how to teachto help you in your specific
(12:06):
type of dyslexia.
Right.
So the uh tuition at the timewas like six thousand dollars a
year.
That's big money back then.
Yeah, we're talking 79 orsomething like that.
And that was huge.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah.
And so Well, especially whenwhen mom and dad weren't and
grandpa weren't already payingfor education.
But now to be told, hey, sixgrand a year, right, back in
those days, even today that's alot of money.
But back in those days, that's atremendous amount of money.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
So what happened is a lot of people that you know
didn't have that money, you justhad to deal with what you had to
deal with in the public schoolsystem.
Right.
So what what you had is is mostof the kids that were there came
from very wealthy families.
So my mom and dad, they theytirelessly worked to get a grant
(13:00):
from the city of Richmond to getme to allow me to go, and the
city of Richmond paid mytuition.
Come on, man.
All the way till I graduatedfrom 8th to 12th.
Wow.
So God providing for you.
So many of my uh classmates weref very wealthy families, and I
(13:22):
came in.
Yeah.
Not from that.
No, yeah, and I mean it was allabout what kind of clothes you
wore, your shoes, you know.
Uh, I was just backwardscompared to them, and it was
tough until I started makingfriends, you know.
Yeah.
And I had to stand up for myfaith a few times, where we'd be
(13:42):
history class and we're talkingabout the Middle Ages and
Christian, you know, things thatwould go on, be blamed on
Christians.
Right.
And I actually stood up and hadto say, I'm a believer in Jesus
Christ, and I want that known.
And everybody just looked at me,you know.
I sat back down and nothing wassaid.
The teacher didn't get upset.
(14:03):
So, but I let it be known, youknow.
Yeah.
So you were you were a voice forthe Lord.
I right there.
I tried to be because thereagain, you when you're raised in
it, yeah, it's still right andstill wrong, and you know what
the truth is, and you that'sright, you can't help but uh go
towards it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I've known you for a verylong time.
The Lord put us together um backwhen I was in I was in high
school when I first wasintroduced to you and and and to
your wife Joy.
Um, and that's one thing that Ihave appreciated about the two
of you guys.
You have no problem standing upfor your faith.
Right.
(14:42):
It's really something thatattracted to me, attracted me to
you very early on in ourfriendship.
And I was like, man, I gotta, Igotta be connected with this
brother because I I love peoplethat don't back down when it
comes to their faith.
Right.
These are the people that God islooking for to be in the family,
in the army of God, people thatGod wants to use out in the
(15:06):
public square that says, I willtake a stand for my faith.
I will take a stand for my Lord.
And I think we we have to dothat.
I know we have to do thatbecause he took the stand for
us.
Absolutely.
As you mentioned earlier, hewent to the cross.
Right.
You know, so if he did that forme, he did that for you, he did
that for our listeners, then weought to take a stand for him
today.
Absolutely.
And forever.
(15:27):
We're we're gonna we're gonna goright into your high school
years because things are aboutto get very interesting.
You formed your very first rockband.
Uh, because let me just say thisfor those who do not know you
personally, I just want toinform them music is your thing.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
I know I say absolutely a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
That that's a jam.
It is, man.
Yes, sir.
Music is your jam.
Yes.
Uh, it was then and it is now.
Yes, sir.
You you still enjoy good music.
Uh, but back then, this bandthat you were in, it was not
Christian music.
It was not faith-based.
It was a secular band.
Yes, sir.
And you were the lead singer.
Yes, sir.
You're the band leader.
(16:05):
You you played your first gig in1985.
Yep.
Um, I was four years old backthen.
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
You could have been there, man.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
Walk us through that time in your life.
You're going to church, but notfully, completely sold out.
What how were you, how are youbouncing back and forth?
What's going on?
SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
One foot in, one foot out.
I knew the Lord.
I loved the Lord, but there wasthe rest of my life which was
secular, which was I listened tothe music I wanted to listen to.
I did basically things I wantedto do.
I didn't do anything outrageous.
I wasn't drinking or smokingdope or anything like that.
(16:45):
But I was celebrating uh secularthings by the music.
Right.
And so I'm an organizer.
SPEAKER_04 (16:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
And I'm a gatherer of people.
And I brought a friend of minefrom Hermitage High School, who
I'd known since first grade,brought him in as a drummer.
He was a drummer.
And he brought in a guitaristfrom Hermitage High School.
And I brought another guitaristin from my school, New Community
School.
(17:16):
And that's how the band wasformed.
It would have never happened,but I was the guy pulling
everybody together, making thephone calls.
And then it was, well, whatsongs do you know how to play?
And since I couldn't playanything, I'm the singer.
I organized, but hey, somebody'sgot to sing.
So I grabbed the mic.
And that's how it was.
And um, I didn't really see anissue with the lyrics at the
(17:39):
time.
SPEAKER_04 (17:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:40):
I wasn't thinking about how this is influencing
people there watching me.
Right.
You know, didn't look at it likethat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Right.
So what was the name of thatband?
That was Labyrinth.
Labyrinth?
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
Which means maze.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Okay.
So for so for anybody that maybe listening right now that once
heard Labyrinth.
One of those gigs, you know, wecan now say that the lead singer
is sold out for Jesus Christ.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
So you go on to graduate highschool and you move into an
apartment with a buddy.
Yes.
And you begin taking a two-yearcollege course on dental
(18:13):
laboratory technology, correct?
Yes, sir.
And you end up getting into thedental lab tech career.
Yes, sir.
In your testimony, Brother Paul,you call these years your your
party time.
Yes, sir.
There was drinking, there wassmoking, there was girls.
You said that your roommate waswas even more out of control
than you were.
Yes.
But here's the good news.
(18:34):
God intervened again for you,didn't he?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
I mean, just right there again.
And I just think about probablyhow many times your mom and dad
prayed over their son.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
You know, and and even now, with with with my two
boys, my wife and I areconstantly day in and day out,
all through the night, when wewake up and we're we're praying
for our boys.
Yes.
It's it's so important.
And I just encourage thelisteners right now, pray for
your children.
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Pray for your children.
You know, it is worth investingin.
It is worth taking the time todo.
Uh, would you just share withthe listeners how, as I just
mentioned, there's there'sdrinking, there's smoking,
there's girls got a roommate,and and and this, this, this
guy, this friend of yours, he'sjust he's just even more out
there than you are.
Knowing all that and kind ofkind of now being able to look
(19:24):
back at it, because that's agift to be able to still be
alive today to look back.
SPEAKER_03 (19:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
How do you see God intervening for your life in in
in that time in those years?
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Well, there again, uh knowing right from wrong, I
still did wrong, but I knew Idon't know how how to explain
it, but I could find the limit.
You know, I'm gonna only do somuch, I'll go right to the ledge
and then stop.
Yes.
I mean, I didn't do any drugs,but you know, smoking cigars and
(19:58):
and drinking beer and drinkingliquor and and going to parties
and driving drunk, you know, Idid that one time and uh but it
was always a limit.
Yeah, it wasn't just outrageous,and and and I'm not pointing
fingers because wrong is wrong,but my my uh roommate got to
(20:18):
where he was getting dangerous.
Yeah, I mean, fireworks in theapartment, wow, you know, uh,
had to be drinking every singlenight.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
And I still needed to make good grades, you know.
I still had to study.
Yeah.
And so I have to, you know,close myself in my bedroom, let
him do his thing.
And then it got to the pointwhere I just couldn't stay there
anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Yeah, I mean, you got to close your door, hope
he's not burning the apartmentdown with fireworks out.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
I thought clearly not in a soundmind.
No.
In the in the other room.
It it gets so bad that you endup going home, you've got to
humble yourself and you got togo have a talk with your parents
about how bad things have gottenin your life and and in in in
(21:00):
that at the apartment.
What does that conversation looklike?
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Well, literally, uh, there had been an incident.
And I don't I can't remember ifit was the fireworks or when he
tried to pour drive hisfour-wheel drive truck up
through the sliding glasswindows, but wow, uh, I left and
went home.
It was, I don't know, 9 30 atnight, something like it, went
home.
(21:25):
And I walked in, and mom and dadare sitting up in the bed
reading.
And I'll be honest, I had alittle bit to drink.
And I'm standing there and I washolding on to the bedpost,
steadying myself, and I said, Ithink I need to come home.
Wow.
I said, It's it's got out ofcontrol.
Yeah, and I'll never forget.
(21:46):
Dad said, Well, you've triedsome things that I told you
where they were gonna go, andyou've had to learn on your own.
Um, I'm glad you have learned,and just know none of that will
go here if you come back.
That's right, the rules pickback up.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
The rules absolutely.
Yeah, but but what I want tospeak about on that is the love
of my parents that they allowedme.
They were paying my rent, man.
I wasn't working, I was justgoing to school.
Yeah, I had a car, they werepaying for everything, man.
I had a little spending money,yeah, bought some groceries, but
(22:28):
they they were doing it all.
Yeah, my grandparents wereactually paying my college
tuition, and I was living free,man.
Yeah, and to allow me to trythat and trust me, even though I
I messed up some, yeah, and thento welcome me home, like the
(22:48):
prodigal.
Yeah, yeah, come on back.
Here's the rules, of course, butcome on back.
Yeah, that was the awesomething.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Yeah, you're welcome to come back at any time, but
you can't bring the sillinesswith you.
Right.
Yeah, that's that's done.
That's awesome.
What I love about that is thatmom or dad didn't scold you,
they didn't verbally whip youover, beat you over the head, do
anything like that.
They say, Hey, you're welcome tocome back, but the rules are
still the rules.
Right.
Uh maybe there are peoplelistening right now, brother
Paul, and and and and it if youfind yourself where at some
(23:19):
point where brother Paul wasjust talking about you, you need
to come, you need to come backhome.
You you need to come back home.
You need to you need to tell thetruth.
Maybe you got to confess somethings, you got to ask for
forgiveness.
If that's you, I just encourageyou, just let this be the
episode that just pushes you totake that next step.
Because if you're willing to dothat, it will begin a process of
(23:41):
setting you free once you go getthe help you need.
And odds are there there'ssomeone listening that does need
to go talk to somebody and theyjust need to get some help.
Uh, I I can only imagine thatwhen you see your roommate
getting ready to drive hisvehicle through the double glass
doors, that you gotta bethinking, man, this is uh this
(24:04):
has not ended up into the theplan of my life that I thought I
had.
Not at all.
This was this was not in theworks for me.
No, yeah.
Uh so you go on, brother Paul,you you finish college, and then
something happened to you whilewatching a TV show.
You saw on that show a Christianmetal band named Stryper.
(24:25):
Yes, right?
You remember that?
Yes, sir.
Um you you begin praying to Godabout starting a Christian metal
band.
So so you're going from secularinto being sold out with a
crystal, uh Christian metalband.
You wanted to take your passion,and this is what I love about
it.
You wanted to take your passionand honor God with it.
(24:46):
Yes.
And now now there's no internetback then, right?
No, no, no, no, everybody's gota computer in their home.
No cell phones.
No, yeah, no cell phones.
This is pre-computer age.
Probably hard for some listenersthat are listening right now to
to think about that.
But but man, I I graduated in2000.
I mean, you go back just 25years ago.
And in 2000, I was the only, Iwas the first, and in that year,
(25:11):
the only one in in my schoolthat I knew of that had a cell
phone.
Wow.
Now I was paying for my own.
SPEAKER_03 (25:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
But I was the only one that I knew of in the entire
high school in 2000 that had acell phone.
Now you probably can't hardlywalk down the hall and see
someone without one.
But this is the pre-computer agefor you.
And here you've got thisChristian, you want to begin
forming this Christian metalband, and you're gonna need some
help making some flyers.
Tell the listeners, and this isjust awesome, man.
(25:39):
You talk about you talk aboutpeople who love you.
Tell the listeners who helpedyou make those flyers for your
band.
Well, my mom did.
Amen.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
And we were we were Southern Baptist, okay?
That's how I was raised,Baptist.
And I love the Baptist, okay?
God took me another direction,but I love the Baptist.
My dad was a pastor.
Uh, my mom worked for theVirginia Baptist Board, okay?
They're the organizationalplatform.
So you don't get more Baptistthan we were.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
And here she's getting ready to make some uh
some flyers for a Christianmiddle.
SPEAKER_02 (26:15):
My mom has access to uh ways to make flyers on the
job.
Right.
So I wrote out what I wanted.
And Lee, I was just looking foreverything.
I had nothing.
I need guitarist, I needdrummer, I need bass player, you
know.
And I mom made it up and runsome copies for me.
(26:38):
And I got in the car and I droveto every music store, you know,
where you would buy instruments,yeah, and they all had bulletin
boards.
And I put them, I went all overRichmond, put them up
Chesterfield, wherever, andwaited for the phone to ring.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Yeah.
And it did.
It did.
I just I just think that that'sawesome, man.
Like one of the things I seethis episode as is really a
tribute to your parents.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
Oh, my parents were and are awesome.
My mom is one of my greatestsupporters.
Yeah.
You know.
Um, dad is on with the Lord.
I'm so looking forward to seeinghim when I get home.
Amen.
But mom, oh my goodness, she wasthe fighter for so much of what
(27:24):
I wanted to do.
And when I formed the band,there was never any backlash.
SPEAKER_04 (27:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
Um, my dad did say something kind of funny one
time.
He said, You realize that bandsare dime a dozen.
You need to have a real job.
Yeah.
But I was working.
Yeah.
I was working.
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
So yeah.
Now let me just say this.
That just that little piece ofyour testimony should encourage
some parents.
I know it encourages me, to getinvolved with what their
children enjoy doing.
So many times I see parentsforce, because I coach baseball
for a long time.
I seen parents force theirchildren into playing sports and
(28:07):
and the child didn't want to bethere.
Right.
But that doesn't mean that thatchild didn't have an interest in
something else.
Right.
So, so I just want to say thisif you're a parent out there,
grandparent out there, or ifyou're you're helping raise or
you're raising children, findout what the child enjoys doing
and then help them uh putpassion into that.
Find out what they're passionateabout and go go fan that flame.
(28:30):
Right.
You know what I mean?
Go, go, go fan that flame.
See how you can, and then andthen here's here's taking it a
step further.
See how you can take thatpassion and then say, okay, I
see this is what you enjoydoing.
How can we honor God with this?
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Okay, so Paul, you you you like music, but okay,
you want to do a metal band, butit's to honor Christ.
Yes.
How can I help you do this?
Right.
Mama's gonna make up someflyers.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
You know what I mean?
I mean, that that's powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
And I have another funny story, considering my
parents, when the band firstformed, we didn't have anywhere
to practice.
Right.
So we had an extra room at thehouse.
And so here it was a small room.
We packed the band in there.
SPEAKER_04 (29:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
And we're we're practicing.
And I mean, this is at mom anddad's house.
And it was loud.
And uh mom's out front wateringflowers or something, and a
neighbor across the street cameover and said, Danny, what is
that noise?
And mom goes, What noise?
I don't hear anything.
She said, You can't hear that.
(29:31):
And mom goes, Oh, that's justPaul's band practice.
Oh, that's awesome, man.
And kept right on, yeah, youknow, ordering the plants.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
That that just goes to show herlove and support for what you
were doing.
Yes.
And it was also honoring theLord.
Right.
And I I just think that that'sawesome.
You guys are in there honoringGod, and even though it's loud,
you're willing to, you know,mom's willing to put up with it.
Never a complaint.
Hey, I I look at it like thisbecause sometimes our oldest
(29:59):
will bring friends.
Home from college or we'll gosomewhere and they'll meet us
out there.
Yeah.
And Erica and I see it likethis.
At least they're with us.
There you go.
They could be somewhere elsedoing who knows what, right?
Like you take advantage of thattime that your children want to
come back home.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And so, you know, your mom, I'msure she could have looked at it
(30:21):
like that as well as a parent.
Hey, at least my baby is undermy roof.
Yeah.
He's got his friends and they'retogether under my roof and
they're in there honoring God.
Right.
I mean, that's that's powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
My dad would work the front door.
See, we're we're in the back ofthe house in another room.
We don't know that, you know,the guitarist or whoever showed
up.
So dad's answering the door, andhe doesn't know these guys from
Adam, and he's hugging them andtelling them, I love you, and
all that.
Come on, man.
You know, because that's how healways greeted my friends.
Yeah.
And even though he didn't knowthem, yeah.
It's like, you know, welcome, Ilove you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:53):
You know.
That's so deep, brother.
That's so deep.
Just welcome them into the home,showing them the love of God,
right?
Showing them the love of Christ.
That's one thing that Erica andI do when Elijah, our oldest
son, he's 20, when he leaveswith his buddies back to
college, doesn't matter if wewere at an Apple Festival and
we're all leaving, doesn'tmatter if they were at my house
for a bonfire and they're allleaving.
Um, one of the things that wealways do is we say, okay, let's
(31:16):
pray before y'all go.
There you go.
Let's pray before you go.
And if he's got like the lasttime he was at home, there was
uh two friends that left beforethe other three.
And so even when those twofriends left first, we're like,
all right, hold up.
Go pray.
We're gonna pray.
We're gonna pray.
You know, and I want them toknow that when you're in our
presence, you've been in thepresence of the Lord.
Right.
I want them to know that whenthey've been in our home, that
(31:36):
they've been in the presence ofGod Almighty.
I want them to know that even ifwe're at an apple festival at a
mountain somewhere, we've beenin the creation of God and in
his presence.
And let's take the time to honorthat.
So I think that even as ourchildren get older, we don't
stop pursuing them in the nameof the Lord.
You know, we we don't stoppursuing that.
(31:57):
I just think that that'sfantastic that your dad works
the door and he loves thesepeople as they come in and he's
hugging on them.
Right.
Because man, you never know,man.
You you never know if thatperson has a dad that hugs them.
Well, see, and the other thingwas see, this was brand new.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
I just put a flyer out and I interviewed people.
Yeah.
It's being a young Christian,uh, you don't know where they're
really coming from.
Right, right.
How mature in their faith arethey?
Right.
Yeah.
And so I had some people thatwere really on the edge.
And this might have been theonly hug they ever got.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
You know, so it was a witness.
Yeah.
Or in that exact moment, theyneeded that hug from a godly
man.
Exactly.
They needed to feel the love ofGod.
SPEAKER_02 (32:40):
Never experience anything like that.
You just never know when you'rebeing Christ like what you're
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
Yeah, that's what you're but again, sensitive to
the Holy Spirit.
That's right.
Taking the time to love onpeople the way God loves on us,
right?
And the way we want to be lovedon.
SPEAKER_02 (32:56):
Right.
And when you're investing inyour children, it doesn't
necessarily mean you this iswhat you want them doing.
SPEAKER_04 (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
But do it for the Lord.
Whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:06):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Promote that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Do it for the Lord.
How can we honor God in this?
Absolutely.
So this metal Christian bandthat you go on uh to to create,
which which I love becausethere's so many different types
of Christian music today, man,that that people Christians have
no reason to go outside ofChristian music.
I mean, we've got Christian rap,uh, you know, Christian country,
(33:29):
believe it or not, Christianmetal, Christian rock.
There's so many types ofChristian music.
And and again, these people thathad these these desires and
passions and these gifts out inthe world, that now when they
come to Christ, they're usingthese gifts to honor God for the
glory of his holy name.
You know, and and I just thinkit's great, man.
I just think it's fantastic.
(33:50):
But this this metal band,because maybe there's some
people that are wondering, uh,it's named King's Cross.
Right.
Right?
King's Cross.
And and I just think that that'sawesome.
You guys ever have any t-shirtsmade or anything?
SPEAKER_02 (34:02):
Never had t-shirts, never did any recording.
Yeah.
Um, a lot of uh of the Christianbands or rap groups, or whoever,
the first thing they did wasrecord.
Right.
And that was the you know,emphasis.
Well, for me, I didn't want towrite songs, I wanted to be a
cover band to cover otherChristian artists and get out
(34:25):
there to share Jesus with peoplewherever we could go.
Amen.
We're playing biker parties,we're playing, you know, pool
parties, we're playing in bars.
Yeah, they didn't know we werejust a metal band.
SPEAKER_04 (34:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
And then you come in there preaching Jesus through
the movies.
Absolutely.
And uh, but that's that was theemphasis for me.
Yeah.
I don't want to take months andwrite songs and try to record it
and all that.
Let's let's learn the songs andget out there.
Get out there.
That's I want to see people'slives change.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great advocate.
That's what it was.
Yeah, because those people atthe parties, those people at the
bars, they need to hear Jesusjust like everybody else.
That's where he was.
Yeah, that that's awesome.
Everywhere, right?
Yeah, omnipresent.
Right.
That that's awesome.
You who knows who you wereministering to at those places
(35:16):
that that they could have feltlike they were just on their
last leg, down and out, ready togive up.
Right.
And they sit there and they'rehearing a gospel presentation
through metal music.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
I mean, that that we we were uh playing at a bar in
Richmond.
Uh-huh.
Newgate prison was the name ofit.
It was a biker bar.
Uh-huh.
And the owner comes up to me andhe says, We have church here on
Sundays.
Come on, man.
Can you come and lead worship orsomething?
(35:49):
And and we we never did it, butyou just don't know.
Don't know what someone's goingthrough and how the Lord's
working in their life.
And I told you that story aboutthe the two young men that the
bouncer let in free after askingme, because these guys come in
free.
And then they started mockingme.
Well, that bouncer grabbed themup by the shirts and threw them
(36:10):
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
Threw them out of there for mocking you for doing
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (36:13):
Respect for what we were doing.
Those two didn't, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
But but the bouncer even did.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
God's in all of it.
Come on, man.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Amazing.
Praise God.
Yeah.
That the band goes on, and youyou guys are getting heavy into
it.
You're having uh multiple nightsa week for rehearsals, you got
gigs on the weekends.
SPEAKER_03 (36:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
Um, but something had changed in your life.
You got married, yes, and andyou realize that that season of
your life of being in the banduh was going to be over.
You had to back out.
Obviously, you had a lot of timeinvested in it, but why do you
think that at that time it wasit was time to move on?
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Well, the Lord blessed me, and while I was
working at the dental lab, abeautiful young lady came in
looking for a job, and theyhired her.
And uh went along, we werehaving lunch together and two
different lives.
She was a little bit older thanme and came from an alcoholic
(37:16):
background and drug abuse andeverything, but she was saved
and loved the Lord.
Long story short, I had to marrythis this this girl, this
beautiful woman.
And when I did, I became aninstant father because she had a
son, and I think he was 10 or 11at the time.
Okay.
So I had an instant family.
SPEAKER_04 (37:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
And we were going to a church called House of Prayer,
which was full gospel.
Holy Spirit had free reign, andit was a heavy teaching church.
I mean, you really.
And I learned for the first timein a life, my life, what the
role of a husband was and afather was.
(37:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
And then all of a sudden you're like, hey, I gotta
be home.
SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Yes.
Yeah.
And I felt guilty for being goneat, you know, a couple of nights
a week.
And she was very supportive.
She never asked me to quit.
Never.
So I had to go to these guysthat I had gathered, and I mean,
we went through personnelchanges and some tough times.
Arguments, you know, we'repeople.
SPEAKER_04 (38:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:22):
And I had to tell them I've got to walk away from
what I had organized, which Ihad made and absolutely loved.
Yeah.
Because of my family.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
That was a hard decision.
That's so good, man.
Again, we're we're just talkingabout parental roles here.
SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Sometimes you got to let go of something you love to
do what you know you need to do.
Absolutely.
And then I think that it's okaythat you love that band, but now
you're in a new season.
Yes.
And you've got to see whatyou're supposed to love well
now.
Yes.
Right.
And I think that there aredifferent chapters in our lives
that we do have to look back atand say, okay, let me just kind
of evaluate.
Let me take, let me take aphysical and spiritual, a mental
(39:00):
inventory in my life and see ifsee if I'm loving on the right
things and the right people atthe right time in my life.
And so you had to step away fromthat thing that you loved.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
In order to love the season that God was currently
having you in.
I I think that's great.
Um, brother Paul, in yourtestimony, you included Romans 8
28, where Paul writes, and weknow that for those who love
God, all things work togetherfor good.
SPEAKER_02 (39:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
For those who are called according to his purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (39:32):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:32):
Before we wrap this episode up, explain how this
verse has impacted your life,that God has worked it all out
together for the good becauseyou've been called according to
his purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
I have discovered that when I submit to God's
authority and realize my plansare not his plans, it doesn't
mean you don't try to do thingsand and stay, you know, trying
to serve, but he's gonna directyou.
And just because you wereplanning on being uh in a
(40:08):
Christian rock band and and tourthe world and see people saved,
it does not mean that uh being aparent, being a greeter, an
usher, um, an organizer ofcelebrations of life at our
church is not just as important.
(40:30):
It's serving the Lord and doingwhat he's calling you to do.
That's right.
It's like being directed toChrist Family Outreach.
I knew you, I had no intentionto go to that church, but Joy
and I laid it before the Lord,take us where you want us to go.
Yeah, and that's one of thethings I love about you.
(40:50):
You never pestered me.
Every time I saw you, you lovedon me.
You never said, Come to mychurch, come to my church, you
know.
And we were like, we got to goover here.
And we walked in and I felt theHoly Spirit and I heard the
truth being preached, and youlaying your life out in front of
(41:11):
us, yeah, your faults, andshowing us you're real.
Yeah, that's what it's all aboutto me.
Yeah, is when I experience theHoly Spirit moving and realizing
I don't have to be in aspotlighted area.
That's right.
You serve where you're createdand be open to do what the
(41:31):
Lord's director you do.
So when your pastor says, I needyou to sand this writing off of
a table, yeah, yeah, that's notbeneath me.
That's an honor to do that in myhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
My God's house is my house.
Yeah.
Amen.
Amen.
I love it.
It's about being part of thefamily.
Absolutely.
Being part of the family,absolutely, part of the team.
SPEAKER_02 (41:54):
And and to honor an authority in my life.
It doesn't have to do with I'molder than you, you're younger
than me.
You're in a position God'splaced you.
Right.
So I honor my pastor bylistening and praying for him
every single day.
I have to pray for my pastorbecause I know the evil that is
(42:17):
trying to take things out thatare for good.
We're gonna win.
That's right.
That's right.
And that's what one of thethings you do, you point.
This is the way we're going.
You go with us or you don't.
Yeah.
And that's I'm going.
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
Yeah.
I'm going.
Not backing down.
Right.
Not moving.
Right.
That's right.
That's right.
Keep it on, keeping on.
Straightway.
Right.
Amen.
Don't give up.
Amen.
Well, Brother Paul, I appreciateyou coming on this podcast.
Honored to be here.
And I know that we've encouragedsome parents out there.
Yes.
Uh, and and I and I think also,too, we have encouraged some
children uh that may be young,but also some some children that
(42:52):
are now adults.
Yeah.
That if if they are blessed andhave the gift of their parents
still living, yes, they could goback and just say, Thank you.
I love you.
SPEAKER_02 (42:59):
Absolutely.
I encourage, take the time rightnow to thank them and love on
them because you might not havetomorrow.
That's right.
And and when they're gone,they're gone.
Yeah.
If they're saved, we'll seethem.
That's right.
But they're still gone.
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (43:14):
Father, we just we thank you.
We thank you, Father, for thisepisode.
We we we thank you, Father, forthe testimonies that you've
given us, but you're justworking out those testimonies
new every day.
Every day we're just adding onto what you are doing in our
lives, and we are grateful forthat.
If there be anyone out therethat has not yet received Jesus
(43:34):
Christ as King of Kings and Lordof Lords, as Savior of their
life and soul, I would justencourage you to say a prayer
like this (43:41):
Lord Jesus, I'm a sinner and I repent of my sins.
I recognize that you died on thecross so that I could be
forgiven.
And I ask you to come into mylife, forgive me and save my
soul.
Fill me with the power of yourHoly Spirit in Jesus Christ's
name and blood.
Amen.
Amen and amen.
Welcome everyone to Beyond Sunday.
I am your host, Pastor Lee Day,and I pastor CFO Church, located
in Amelia, Virginia.
And I would like to take amoment and personally invite
each and every one of you tocome on by and worship the Lord
God Almighty with us.
Doors open at 9:30.
Service begins at 10 a.m.
On today's episode, sitting atthe table with me is a good
(00:30):
friend of mine.
He is a brother in Christ.
Paul Butler, how are you doingtoday, my brother?
Man, I am highly blessed, highlyfavored of the Lord.
Yes, amen.
Because you are in his hand.
Absolutely, brother.
In his hand.
Paul, there have been somereally amazing testimonies that
have come on to this show, andyours is going to be just as
(00:52):
powerful.
However, your testimony, brotherPaul, is going to come from a
different angle.
And that's what I love about it.
You were the first ever pastor'sson that has come on to share
your testimony.
So thank you for sitting at thetable with me today, brother.
Absolutely.
I am a totally honored pastor.
Before we get into yourtestimony, Paul, can you share a
memory?
(01:12):
Could you share a memory withyour dad that means so much to
you?
Because I know you've sharedwith me before how much you knew
you knew that your dad lovedyou.
Is there something specific thatstands out that's like your
go-to memory with your dad?
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I I think the uh the rocking chair incident when I
was an infant, which I don'tremember, but I was told the
story that dad was holding me inhis arms, rocking me in the
rocking chair.
And I guess he got a littlecarried away, but one of the
rockers on the rocking chairactually broke and we went
backwards.
Yeah.
(01:47):
And he held on to me, never letme go.
Praise God.
And that's a symbolic of myrelationship with my dad the
rest of my life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Amen.
He was right there for you.
Right there.
All the time.
Yes.
Letting you know that he lovedyou.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
And literally, I've got you, and I won't let you go.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Man, what what what a father-son relationship.
Oh, yeah.
When when you were a young boy,your dad's health took a turn
for the worse.
And the doctor said that yourdad was going to lose his
eyesight.
Yes.
At this point, you guys have tomove to Richmond, Virginia.
Yes.
In 1971.
Yes, sir.
So that your dad could betrained to live life blind.
(02:26):
Yes, sir.
What was the family goingthrough during this time?
What do you know about it?
SPEAKER_02 (02:31):
Well, it was it was very tough because uh dad
pastored a very small countrychurch.
We lived in a parsonage, andthere wasn't a lot of money.
So we were not able to come toRichmond and just purchase a
house and all that.
We had to come to Richmond andmove in with my grandfather
(02:53):
Butler, my my dad's father.
My grandmother had passed manyyears before.
And so we had to transition intohis life, move into his house,
and with nothing.
Mom didn't have a job, dad waswithout a job.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Starting all over.
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
Yeah.
So it now I was very little, butit was quite the transition.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
I'm sure it was.
From from first grade tocollege, you and your family
went in church.
Whenever the doors were open,y'all were there.
Y'all were there.
You eventually, though, you youwalk away uh from from living a
relationship faithful andobedient to the Lord, and you
hit the party scene for a whilein life.
(03:37):
But but before we get into thatpart of your testimony, would
you share how being raised inchurch and showing up every week
impacted your life and how itends up bringing you back to the
truth when you strayed away fromit?
Because I'm going to put thisverse out there.
Proverbs 22, 6 says, Train up achild in the way he should go.
(03:58):
Even when he is old, he will notdepart from it.
So how did how did your familybringing you to church every
time the doors were open, howdid it affect you later on in
life when you had strayed away?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Well, being raised up in the word, being raised up
around believers, people thatloved you because they love the
Lord, right?
As in Sunday school teachers,nursery workers, uh ushers, you
know, being in that atmosphere.
True, genuine Christian.
Absolutely.
And and you knew right fromwrong.
(04:31):
You knew the way it should be,not the way that it could be.
Right.
And so when you strayed, youalways knew what you were doing
was wrong.
SPEAKER_04 (04:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
It didn't feel right at all.
And it was more testing limits.
Yeah.
And then you just knew youneeded to get back in
relationship with the Lord.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so important to live thelife that you had been shown and
taught.
Yeah.
And know that's right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
Not a question, it's right.
Yeah.
You know.
That's right.
That's right.
Erica once read the followingstatement, Brother Paul, and it
it says this if you as theparent don't train your child in
the way they should go, there isa very real enemy that will.
Absolutely.
So that's that's our role.
That's our responsibility asparents.
(05:22):
I I once heard someone say, uh,as a parent, they said, I'm not
raising my child to be bestfriends with them right now.
SPEAKER_03 (05:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
I'm gonna raise them and discipline them in a way so
that when they're old enough toleave my home, it's someone that
I want to be friends with then.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I know parents that arecurrently raising young children
and they just want to be theirbest friends, but I look at
those types of children andthere's not much structure,
there's not much disciplinebecause mom and dad don't want
(05:50):
to break bad at times andcorrect things that need to be
corrected because they don'twant to hurt their feelings, you
know.
And man, I so line up with that,with with the theory of I'm not
raising my best friend rightnow.
I'm raising a child who I wantto one day be an outstanding
young man of the faith in thisworld, and and then I'll go be
friends with him.
That's right.
You know, then then I'll befriends with him.
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
There were times I actually thanked my dad later on
for discipline that he didearlier in my life that you
probably weren't a fan of itthose days.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Not at the time.
On October 19th, 1980, during arevival service, you made your
profession of faith.
What do you remember about thatnight in 1980?
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Well, the biggest deal of that was not that I
wasn't a Christian, it waspublicly declaring it.
Yeah, you know, Jesus hung on across publicly, yeah, with all
the worst that could ever be.
And all I was being asked is towalk forward during a church
(06:57):
service and present myself tothe congregation with my pastor
standing beside me.
Yeah, and yet I was terrifiedjust to walk up.
And so my pastor had come to methe week before and said, We've
got a revival, wonderful timefor you to go ahead and make
your profession of faith.
And I was like, Okay.
So I made the agreement, now I'mterrified.
(07:19):
So I sat near the front because,you know, hey, it's a shorter
walk.
That's right, and went on up.
And uh it was the most freeingthing because not only had I
made my profession of faith, butnow I knew, even though I knew I
was a Christian, I knew that myname was in the Lamb's book of
(07:40):
life.
Amen.
And I just celebrated so much.
Yeah, yeah.
It was official.
Absolutely.
It was official.
And then my dad, uh, being apastor, but not the pastor of
our home church, he actually gotto baptize me, which was
incredible.
What a blessing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
Absolutely.
That that I'm sure that that wasone of his top honors that he
that he ever participated in.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
Never, ever, ever forget that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that that that's awesome.
In in your testimony, BrotherPaul, it states that you first
felt the Holy Spirit in yourlife at youth camp.
Yes, sir.
How has your relationship withthe Holy Spirit impacted your
life even up to today?
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Well, once I could recognize the feeling of the
Holy Spirit, what it what it didinside of me, then I could
recognize it from there on.
Yeah.
And then I'm able to uh besensitive to the move of the
spirit and realize this isn'tme, this is God moving in me
(08:43):
through the Holy Spirit.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
That's how it's I I I love the term that you just
use there, sensitive to the HolySpirit.
Yeah.
So many people, I'm just goingto talk for a moment about not
being sensitive.
Let's talk about, you know,sometimes you can talk about the
opposite of something to figureout what something actually is,
right?
So someone who's not sensitiveto the Holy Spirit, they're the
person that's trying to do ittheir own way.
(09:05):
They're not yielding to what thespirit is leading them to do.
Uh, and therefore they can getto the point to where they're
not even listening anymore.
Right.
Because they become to the pointto where they just want to do it
their way and what they want todo.
But I love, I love that term,sensitive to the Holy Spirit,
meaning that you're alwayslistening and looking for what
the Lord God Almighty wants youto do.
(09:26):
Absolutely.
And how his spirit is trying toget you to go into that
direction.
But I think that if Christianswould be uh sensitive to the
Holy Spirit, man, there wouldbe, there would just be revival
across this land.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
You know, you you would have people loving their
neighbor as they're really trulycalled to love their neighbor.
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Understanding that their neighbor is whoever
they're around in the momentthat they're around them.
You know, it's not just theperson living in the physical
home right next door.
Right.
You know, we go to the grocerystore, we got neighbors around
us.
Right.
You know, so are we going to besensitive to what the Holy
Spirit is asking of us?
And to me, obedience just breedsmore obedience.
Right.
You know, the the the more we doyield to the calling of the
(10:06):
spirit, the more we're gonnabegin to hear the spirit calling
us to do other things.
Right.
Would you agree with that?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
We set our plan, yeah, but then God can change
that plan.
That's right.
And we have to be sensitive, asI said, to what he wants to be
done now.
SPEAKER_04 (10:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:23):
Like we were talking earlier.
Yeah.
We have a set schedule for ourSunday worship and praise and
all that.
But if the Lord speaks to you aspastor that this is more
important right now, then that'swhat we do.
Then that's what we do.
And we're being obedient to themove of the Holy Spirit.
And that's when ministry reallyhappens.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
Yeah.
Oh, amen, brother.
Like what nothing wrong withstructure.
Absolutely.
But we don't want to be sostructured that we miss what the
Spirit may want us to do alittle bit different today.
Right.
Right?
Just a little, a little bitdifferent.
And I think sometimes, and we'rewe're all guilty of this, myself
included, we go through our dayand we have things and tasks
that need to be done that ifwe're not careful, we've got
(11:05):
blinders on.
Yes.
Because we know we have toaccomplish this and we'll miss
people or divine appointments.
Yeah.
We'll miss things that God iscalling us to do because we know
that we've got to do this and dothis well.
And so, again, sensitive to theHoly Spirit.
Absolutely.
Amen.
SPEAKER_03 (11:22):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
When you were a teenager, um you were diagnosed
with dyslexia.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
And you ended up going to a different school that
was equipped to help you withthat.
SPEAKER_03 (11:32):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
You went through some culture shock at that at
that new school because theother students weren't like you.
Walk us through what that waslike and why.
SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Well, because it was a private school that was uh put
together by parents that haddyslexic children and they had
to bring in some really uhpowerful or knowledgeable
teachers that knew how to teachto help you in your specific
(12:06):
type of dyslexia.
Right.
So the uh tuition at the timewas like six thousand dollars a
year.
That's big money back then.
Yeah, we're talking 79 orsomething like that.
And that was huge.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah.
And so Well, especially whenwhen mom and dad weren't and
grandpa weren't already payingfor education.
But now to be told, hey, sixgrand a year, right, back in
those days, even today that's alot of money.
But back in those days, that's atremendous amount of money.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
So what happened is a lot of people that you know
didn't have that money, you justhad to deal with what you had to
deal with in the public schoolsystem.
Right.
So what what you had is is mostof the kids that were there came
from very wealthy families.
So my mom and dad, they theytirelessly worked to get a grant
(13:00):
from the city of Richmond to getme to allow me to go, and the
city of Richmond paid mytuition.
Come on, man.
All the way till I graduatedfrom 8th to 12th.
Wow.
So God providing for you.
So many of my uh classmates weref very wealthy families, and I
(13:22):
came in.
Yeah.
Not from that.
No, yeah, and I mean it was allabout what kind of clothes you
wore, your shoes, you know.
Uh, I was just backwardscompared to them, and it was
tough until I started makingfriends, you know.
Yeah.
And I had to stand up for myfaith a few times, where we'd be
(13:42):
history class and we're talkingabout the Middle Ages and
Christian, you know, things thatwould go on, be blamed on
Christians.
Right.
And I actually stood up and hadto say, I'm a believer in Jesus
Christ, and I want that known.
And everybody just looked at me,you know.
I sat back down and nothing wassaid.
The teacher didn't get upset.
(14:03):
So, but I let it be known, youknow.
Yeah.
So you were you were a voice forthe Lord.
I right there.
I tried to be because thereagain, you when you're raised in
it, yeah, it's still right andstill wrong, and you know what
the truth is, and you that'sright, you can't help but uh go
towards it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I've known you for a verylong time.
The Lord put us together um backwhen I was in I was in high
school when I first wasintroduced to you and and and to
your wife Joy.
Um, and that's one thing that Ihave appreciated about the two
of you guys.
You have no problem standing upfor your faith.
Right.
(14:42):
It's really something thatattracted to me, attracted me to
you very early on in ourfriendship.
And I was like, man, I gotta, Igotta be connected with this
brother because I I love peoplethat don't back down when it
comes to their faith.
Right.
These are the people that God islooking for to be in the family,
in the army of God, people thatGod wants to use out in the
(15:06):
public square that says, I willtake a stand for my faith.
I will take a stand for my Lord.
And I think we we have to dothat.
I know we have to do thatbecause he took the stand for
us.
Absolutely.
As you mentioned earlier, hewent to the cross.
Right.
You know, so if he did that forme, he did that for you, he did
that for our listeners, then weought to take a stand for him
today.
Absolutely.
And forever.
(15:27):
We're we're gonna we're gonna goright into your high school
years because things are aboutto get very interesting.
You formed your very first rockband.
Uh, because let me just say thisfor those who do not know you
personally, I just want toinform them music is your thing.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
I know I say absolutely a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
That that's a jam.
It is, man.
Yes, sir.
Music is your jam.
Yes.
Uh, it was then and it is now.
Yes, sir.
You you still enjoy good music.
Uh, but back then, this bandthat you were in, it was not
Christian music.
It was not faith-based.
It was a secular band.
Yes, sir.
And you were the lead singer.
Yes, sir.
You're the band leader.
(16:05):
You you played your first gig in1985.
Yep.
Um, I was four years old backthen.
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
You could have been there, man.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
Walk us through that time in your life.
You're going to church, but notfully, completely sold out.
What how were you, how are youbouncing back and forth?
What's going on?
SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
One foot in, one foot out.
I knew the Lord.
I loved the Lord, but there wasthe rest of my life which was
secular, which was I listened tothe music I wanted to listen to.
I did basically things I wantedto do.
I didn't do anything outrageous.
I wasn't drinking or smokingdope or anything like that.
(16:45):
But I was celebrating uh secularthings by the music.
Right.
And so I'm an organizer.
SPEAKER_04 (16:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
And I'm a gatherer of people.
And I brought a friend of minefrom Hermitage High School, who
I'd known since first grade,brought him in as a drummer.
He was a drummer.
And he brought in a guitaristfrom Hermitage High School.
And I brought another guitaristin from my school, New Community
School.
(17:16):
And that's how the band wasformed.
It would have never happened,but I was the guy pulling
everybody together, making thephone calls.
And then it was, well, whatsongs do you know how to play?
And since I couldn't playanything, I'm the singer.
I organized, but hey, somebody'sgot to sing.
So I grabbed the mic.
And that's how it was.
And um, I didn't really see anissue with the lyrics at the
(17:39):
time.
SPEAKER_04 (17:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:40):
I wasn't thinking about how this is influencing
people there watching me.
Right.
You know, didn't look at it likethat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Right.
So what was the name of thatband?
That was Labyrinth.
Labyrinth?
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
Which means maze.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Okay.
So for so for anybody that maybe listening right now that once
heard Labyrinth.
One of those gigs, you know, wecan now say that the lead singer
is sold out for Jesus Christ.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
So you go on to graduate highschool and you move into an
apartment with a buddy.
Yes.
And you begin taking a two-yearcollege course on dental
(18:13):
laboratory technology, correct?
Yes, sir.
And you end up getting into thedental lab tech career.
Yes, sir.
In your testimony, Brother Paul,you call these years your your
party time.
Yes, sir.
There was drinking, there wassmoking, there was girls.
You said that your roommate waswas even more out of control
than you were.
Yes.
But here's the good news.
(18:34):
God intervened again for you,didn't he?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
I mean, just right there again.
And I just think about probablyhow many times your mom and dad
prayed over their son.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
You know, and and even now, with with with my two
boys, my wife and I areconstantly day in and day out,
all through the night, when wewake up and we're we're praying
for our boys.
Yes.
It's it's so important.
And I just encourage thelisteners right now, pray for
your children.
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Pray for your children.
You know, it is worth investingin.
It is worth taking the time todo.
Uh, would you just share withthe listeners how, as I just
mentioned, there's there'sdrinking, there's smoking,
there's girls got a roommate,and and and this, this, this
guy, this friend of yours, he'sjust he's just even more out
there than you are.
Knowing all that and kind ofkind of now being able to look
(19:24):
back at it, because that's agift to be able to still be
alive today to look back.
SPEAKER_03 (19:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
How do you see God intervening for your life in in
in that time in those years?
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Well, there again, uh knowing right from wrong, I
still did wrong, but I knew Idon't know how how to explain
it, but I could find the limit.
You know, I'm gonna only do somuch, I'll go right to the ledge
and then stop.
Yes.
I mean, I didn't do any drugs,but you know, smoking cigars and
(19:58):
and drinking beer and drinkingliquor and and going to parties
and driving drunk, you know, Idid that one time and uh but it
was always a limit.
Yeah, it wasn't just outrageous,and and and I'm not pointing
fingers because wrong is wrong,but my my uh roommate got to
(20:18):
where he was getting dangerous.
Yeah, I mean, fireworks in theapartment, wow, you know, uh,
had to be drinking every singlenight.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
And I still needed to make good grades, you know.
I still had to study.
Yeah.
And so I have to, you know,close myself in my bedroom, let
him do his thing.
And then it got to the pointwhere I just couldn't stay there
anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Yeah, I mean, you got to close your door, hope
he's not burning the apartmentdown with fireworks out.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
I thought clearly not in a soundmind.
No.
In the in the other room.
It it gets so bad that you endup going home, you've got to
humble yourself and you got togo have a talk with your parents
about how bad things have gottenin your life and and in in in
(21:00):
that at the apartment.
What does that conversation looklike?
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Well, literally, uh, there had been an incident.
And I don't I can't remember ifit was the fireworks or when he
tried to pour drive hisfour-wheel drive truck up
through the sliding glasswindows, but wow, uh, I left and
went home.
It was, I don't know, 9 30 atnight, something like it, went
home.
(21:25):
And I walked in, and mom and dadare sitting up in the bed
reading.
And I'll be honest, I had alittle bit to drink.
And I'm standing there and I washolding on to the bedpost,
steadying myself, and I said, Ithink I need to come home.
Wow.
I said, It's it's got out ofcontrol.
Yeah, and I'll never forget.
(21:46):
Dad said, Well, you've triedsome things that I told you
where they were gonna go, andyou've had to learn on your own.
Um, I'm glad you have learned,and just know none of that will
go here if you come back.
That's right, the rules pickback up.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
The rules absolutely.
Yeah, but but what I want tospeak about on that is the love
of my parents that they allowedme.
They were paying my rent, man.
I wasn't working, I was justgoing to school.
Yeah, I had a car, they werepaying for everything, man.
I had a little spending money,yeah, bought some groceries, but
(22:28):
they they were doing it all.
Yeah, my grandparents wereactually paying my college
tuition, and I was living free,man.
Yeah, and to allow me to trythat and trust me, even though I
I messed up some, yeah, and thento welcome me home, like the
(22:48):
prodigal.
Yeah, yeah, come on back.
Here's the rules, of course, butcome on back.
Yeah, that was the awesomething.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Yeah, you're welcome to come back at any time, but
you can't bring the sillinesswith you.
Right.
Yeah, that's that's done.
That's awesome.
What I love about that is thatmom or dad didn't scold you,
they didn't verbally whip youover, beat you over the head, do
anything like that.
They say, Hey, you're welcome tocome back, but the rules are
still the rules.
Right.
Uh maybe there are peoplelistening right now, brother
Paul, and and and and it if youfind yourself where at some
(23:19):
point where brother Paul wasjust talking about you, you need
to come, you need to come backhome.
You you need to come back home.
You need to you need to tell thetruth.
Maybe you got to confess somethings, you got to ask for
forgiveness.
If that's you, I just encourageyou, just let this be the
episode that just pushes you totake that next step.
Because if you're willing to dothat, it will begin a process of
(23:41):
setting you free once you go getthe help you need.
And odds are there there'ssomeone listening that does need
to go talk to somebody and theyjust need to get some help.
Uh, I I can only imagine thatwhen you see your roommate
getting ready to drive hisvehicle through the double glass
doors, that you gotta bethinking, man, this is uh this
(24:04):
has not ended up into the theplan of my life that I thought I
had.
Not at all.
This was this was not in theworks for me.
No, yeah.
Uh so you go on, brother Paul,you you finish college, and then
something happened to you whilewatching a TV show.
You saw on that show a Christianmetal band named Stryper.
(24:25):
Yes, right?
You remember that?
Yes, sir.
Um you you begin praying to Godabout starting a Christian metal
band.
So so you're going from secularinto being sold out with a
crystal, uh Christian metalband.
You wanted to take your passion,and this is what I love about
it.
You wanted to take your passionand honor God with it.
(24:46):
Yes.
And now now there's no internetback then, right?
No, no, no, no, everybody's gota computer in their home.
No cell phones.
No, yeah, no cell phones.
This is pre-computer age.
Probably hard for some listenersthat are listening right now to
to think about that.
But but man, I I graduated in2000.
I mean, you go back just 25years ago.
And in 2000, I was the only, Iwas the first, and in that year,
(25:11):
the only one in in my schoolthat I knew of that had a cell
phone.
Wow.
Now I was paying for my own.
SPEAKER_03 (25:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
But I was the only one that I knew of in the entire
high school in 2000 that had acell phone.
Now you probably can't hardlywalk down the hall and see
someone without one.
But this is the pre-computer agefor you.
And here you've got thisChristian, you want to begin
forming this Christian metalband, and you're gonna need some
help making some flyers.
Tell the listeners, and this isjust awesome, man.
(25:39):
You talk about you talk aboutpeople who love you.
Tell the listeners who helpedyou make those flyers for your
band.
Well, my mom did.
Amen.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
And we were we were Southern Baptist, okay?
That's how I was raised,Baptist.
And I love the Baptist, okay?
God took me another direction,but I love the Baptist.
My dad was a pastor.
Uh, my mom worked for theVirginia Baptist Board, okay?
They're the organizationalplatform.
So you don't get more Baptistthan we were.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
And here she's getting ready to make some uh
some flyers for a Christianmiddle.
SPEAKER_02 (26:15):
My mom has access to uh ways to make flyers on the
job.
Right.
So I wrote out what I wanted.
And Lee, I was just looking foreverything.
I had nothing.
I need guitarist, I needdrummer, I need bass player, you
know.
And I mom made it up and runsome copies for me.
(26:38):
And I got in the car and I droveto every music store, you know,
where you would buy instruments,yeah, and they all had bulletin
boards.
And I put them, I went all overRichmond, put them up
Chesterfield, wherever, andwaited for the phone to ring.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Yeah.
And it did.
It did.
I just I just think that that'sawesome, man.
Like one of the things I seethis episode as is really a
tribute to your parents.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
Oh, my parents were and are awesome.
My mom is one of my greatestsupporters.
Yeah.
You know.
Um, dad is on with the Lord.
I'm so looking forward to seeinghim when I get home.
Amen.
But mom, oh my goodness, she wasthe fighter for so much of what
(27:24):
I wanted to do.
And when I formed the band,there was never any backlash.
SPEAKER_04 (27:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
Um, my dad did say something kind of funny one
time.
He said, You realize that bandsare dime a dozen.
You need to have a real job.
Yeah.
But I was working.
Yeah.
I was working.
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
So yeah.
Now let me just say this.
That just that little piece ofyour testimony should encourage
some parents.
I know it encourages me, to getinvolved with what their
children enjoy doing.
So many times I see parentsforce, because I coach baseball
for a long time.
I seen parents force theirchildren into playing sports and
(28:07):
and the child didn't want to bethere.
Right.
But that doesn't mean that thatchild didn't have an interest in
something else.
Right.
So, so I just want to say thisif you're a parent out there,
grandparent out there, or ifyou're you're helping raise or
you're raising children, findout what the child enjoys doing
and then help them uh putpassion into that.
Find out what they're passionateabout and go go fan that flame.
(28:30):
Right.
You know what I mean?
Go, go, go fan that flame.
See how you can, and then andthen here's here's taking it a
step further.
See how you can take thatpassion and then say, okay, I
see this is what you enjoydoing.
How can we honor God with this?
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Okay, so Paul, you you you like music, but okay,
you want to do a metal band, butit's to honor Christ.
Yes.
How can I help you do this?
Right.
Mama's gonna make up someflyers.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
You know what I mean?
I mean, that that's powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
And I have another funny story, considering my
parents, when the band firstformed, we didn't have anywhere
to practice.
Right.
So we had an extra room at thehouse.
And so here it was a small room.
We packed the band in there.
SPEAKER_04 (29:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
And we're we're practicing.
And I mean, this is at mom anddad's house.
And it was loud.
And uh mom's out front wateringflowers or something, and a
neighbor across the street cameover and said, Danny, what is
that noise?
And mom goes, What noise?
I don't hear anything.
She said, You can't hear that.
(29:31):
And mom goes, Oh, that's justPaul's band practice.
Oh, that's awesome, man.
And kept right on, yeah, youknow, ordering the plants.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
That that just goes to show herlove and support for what you
were doing.
Yes.
And it was also honoring theLord.
Right.
And I I just think that that'sawesome.
You guys are in there honoringGod, and even though it's loud,
you're willing to, you know,mom's willing to put up with it.
Never a complaint.
Hey, I I look at it like thisbecause sometimes our oldest
(29:59):
will bring friends.
Home from college or we'll gosomewhere and they'll meet us
out there.
Yeah.
And Erica and I see it likethis.
At least they're with us.
There you go.
They could be somewhere elsedoing who knows what, right?
Like you take advantage of thattime that your children want to
come back home.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And so, you know, your mom, I'msure she could have looked at it
(30:21):
like that as well as a parent.
Hey, at least my baby is undermy roof.
Yeah.
He's got his friends and they'retogether under my roof and
they're in there honoring God.
Right.
I mean, that's that's powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
My dad would work the front door.
See, we're we're in the back ofthe house in another room.
We don't know that, you know,the guitarist or whoever showed
up.
So dad's answering the door, andhe doesn't know these guys from
Adam, and he's hugging them andtelling them, I love you, and
all that.
Come on, man.
You know, because that's how healways greeted my friends.
Yeah.
And even though he didn't knowthem, yeah.
It's like, you know, welcome, Ilove you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:53):
You know.
That's so deep, brother.
That's so deep.
Just welcome them into the home,showing them the love of God,
right?
Showing them the love of Christ.
That's one thing that Erica andI do when Elijah, our oldest
son, he's 20, when he leaveswith his buddies back to
college, doesn't matter if wewere at an Apple Festival and
we're all leaving, doesn'tmatter if they were at my house
for a bonfire and they're allleaving.
Um, one of the things that wealways do is we say, okay, let's
(31:16):
pray before y'all go.
There you go.
Let's pray before you go.
And if he's got like the lasttime he was at home, there was
uh two friends that left beforethe other three.
And so even when those twofriends left first, we're like,
all right, hold up.
Go pray.
We're gonna pray.
We're gonna pray.
You know, and I want them toknow that when you're in our
presence, you've been in thepresence of the Lord.
Right.
I want them to know that whenthey've been in our home, that
(31:36):
they've been in the presence ofGod Almighty.
I want them to know that even ifwe're at an apple festival at a
mountain somewhere, we've beenin the creation of God and in
his presence.
And let's take the time to honorthat.
So I think that even as ourchildren get older, we don't
stop pursuing them in the nameof the Lord.
You know, we we don't stoppursuing that.
(31:57):
I just think that that'sfantastic that your dad works
the door and he loves thesepeople as they come in and he's
hugging on them.
Right.
Because man, you never know,man.
You you never know if thatperson has a dad that hugs them.
Well, see, and the other thingwas see, this was brand new.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
I just put a flyer out and I interviewed people.
Yeah.
It's being a young Christian,uh, you don't know where they're
really coming from.
Right, right.
How mature in their faith arethey?
Right.
Yeah.
And so I had some people thatwere really on the edge.
And this might have been theonly hug they ever got.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
You know, so it was a witness.
Yeah.
Or in that exact moment, theyneeded that hug from a godly
man.
Exactly.
They needed to feel the love ofGod.
SPEAKER_02 (32:40):
Never experience anything like that.
You just never know when you'rebeing Christ like what you're
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
Yeah, that's what you're but again, sensitive to
the Holy Spirit.
That's right.
Taking the time to love onpeople the way God loves on us,
right?
And the way we want to be lovedon.
SPEAKER_02 (32:56):
Right.
And when you're investing inyour children, it doesn't
necessarily mean you this iswhat you want them doing.
SPEAKER_04 (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
But do it for the Lord.
Whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:06):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Promote that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Do it for the Lord.
How can we honor God in this?
Absolutely.
So this metal Christian bandthat you go on uh to to create,
which which I love becausethere's so many different types
of Christian music today, man,that that people Christians have
no reason to go outside ofChristian music.
I mean, we've got Christian rap,uh, you know, Christian country,
(33:29):
believe it or not, Christianmetal, Christian rock.
There's so many types ofChristian music.
And and again, these people thathad these these desires and
passions and these gifts out inthe world, that now when they
come to Christ, they're usingthese gifts to honor God for the
glory of his holy name.
You know, and and I just thinkit's great, man.
I just think it's fantastic.
(33:50):
But this this metal band,because maybe there's some
people that are wondering, uh,it's named King's Cross.
Right.
Right?
King's Cross.
And and I just think that that'sawesome.
You guys ever have any t-shirtsmade or anything?
SPEAKER_02 (34:02):
Never had t-shirts, never did any recording.
Yeah.
Um, a lot of uh of the Christianbands or rap groups, or whoever,
the first thing they did wasrecord.
Right.
And that was the you know,emphasis.
Well, for me, I didn't want towrite songs, I wanted to be a
cover band to cover otherChristian artists and get out
(34:25):
there to share Jesus with peoplewherever we could go.
Amen.
We're playing biker parties,we're playing, you know, pool
parties, we're playing in bars.
Yeah, they didn't know we werejust a metal band.
SPEAKER_04 (34:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
And then you come in there preaching Jesus through
the movies.
Absolutely.
And uh, but that's that was theemphasis for me.
Yeah.
I don't want to take months andwrite songs and try to record it
and all that.
Let's let's learn the songs andget out there.
Get out there.
That's I want to see people'slives change.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great advocate.
That's what it was.
Yeah, because those people atthe parties, those people at the
bars, they need to hear Jesusjust like everybody else.
That's where he was.
Yeah, that that's awesome.
Everywhere, right?
Yeah, omnipresent.
Right.
That that's awesome.
You who knows who you wereministering to at those places
(35:16):
that that they could have feltlike they were just on their
last leg, down and out, ready togive up.
Right.
And they sit there and they'rehearing a gospel presentation
through metal music.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
I mean, that that we we were uh playing at a bar in
Richmond.
Uh-huh.
Newgate prison was the name ofit.
It was a biker bar.
Uh-huh.
And the owner comes up to me andhe says, We have church here on
Sundays.
Come on, man.
Can you come and lead worship orsomething?
(35:49):
And and we we never did it, butyou just don't know.
Don't know what someone's goingthrough and how the Lord's
working in their life.
And I told you that story aboutthe the two young men that the
bouncer let in free after askingme, because these guys come in
free.
And then they started mockingme.
Well, that bouncer grabbed themup by the shirts and threw them
(36:10):
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
Threw them out of there for mocking you for doing
Christmas.
SPEAKER_02 (36:13):
Respect for what we were doing.
Those two didn't, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
But but the bouncer even did.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
God's in all of it.
Come on, man.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Amazing.
Praise God.
Yeah.
That the band goes on, and youyou guys are getting heavy into
it.
You're having uh multiple nightsa week for rehearsals, you got
gigs on the weekends.
SPEAKER_03 (36:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
Um, but something had changed in your life.
You got married, yes, and andyou realize that that season of
your life of being in the banduh was going to be over.
You had to back out.
Obviously, you had a lot of timeinvested in it, but why do you
think that at that time it wasit was time to move on?
SPEAKER_02 (36:54):
Well, the Lord blessed me, and while I was
working at the dental lab, abeautiful young lady came in
looking for a job, and theyhired her.
And uh went along, we werehaving lunch together and two
different lives.
She was a little bit older thanme and came from an alcoholic
(37:16):
background and drug abuse andeverything, but she was saved
and loved the Lord.
Long story short, I had to marrythis this this girl, this
beautiful woman.
And when I did, I became aninstant father because she had a
son, and I think he was 10 or 11at the time.
Okay.
So I had an instant family.
SPEAKER_04 (37:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
And we were going to a church called House of Prayer,
which was full gospel.
Holy Spirit had free reign, andit was a heavy teaching church.
I mean, you really.
And I learned for the first timein a life, my life, what the
role of a husband was and afather was.
(37:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
And then all of a sudden you're like, hey, I gotta
be home.
SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Yes.
Yeah.
And I felt guilty for being goneat, you know, a couple of nights
a week.
And she was very supportive.
She never asked me to quit.
Never.
So I had to go to these guysthat I had gathered, and I mean,
we went through personnelchanges and some tough times.
Arguments, you know, we'repeople.
SPEAKER_04 (38:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:22):
And I had to tell them I've got to walk away from
what I had organized, which Ihad made and absolutely loved.
Yeah.
Because of my family.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
That was a hard decision.
That's so good, man.
Again, we're we're just talkingabout parental roles here.
SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Sometimes you got to let go of something you love to
do what you know you need to do.
Absolutely.
And then I think that it's okaythat you love that band, but now
you're in a new season.
Yes.
And you've got to see whatyou're supposed to love well
now.
Yes.
Right.
And I think that there aredifferent chapters in our lives
that we do have to look back atand say, okay, let me just kind
of evaluate.
Let me take, let me take aphysical and spiritual, a mental
(39:00):
inventory in my life and see ifsee if I'm loving on the right
things and the right people atthe right time in my life.
And so you had to step away fromthat thing that you loved.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
In order to love the season that God was currently
having you in.
I I think that's great.
Um, brother Paul, in yourtestimony, you included Romans 8
28, where Paul writes, and weknow that for those who love
God, all things work togetherfor good.
SPEAKER_02 (39:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
For those who are called according to his purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (39:32):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:32):
Before we wrap this episode up, explain how this
verse has impacted your life,that God has worked it all out
together for the good becauseyou've been called according to
his purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
I have discovered that when I submit to God's
authority and realize my plansare not his plans, it doesn't
mean you don't try to do thingsand and stay, you know, trying
to serve, but he's gonna directyou.
And just because you wereplanning on being uh in a
(40:08):
Christian rock band and and tourthe world and see people saved,
it does not mean that uh being aparent, being a greeter, an
usher, um, an organizer ofcelebrations of life at our
church is not just as important.
(40:30):
It's serving the Lord and doingwhat he's calling you to do.
That's right.
It's like being directed toChrist Family Outreach.
I knew you, I had no intentionto go to that church, but Joy
and I laid it before the Lord,take us where you want us to go.
Yeah, and that's one of thethings I love about you.
(40:50):
You never pestered me.
Every time I saw you, you lovedon me.
You never said, Come to mychurch, come to my church, you
know.
And we were like, we got to goover here.
And we walked in and I felt theHoly Spirit and I heard the
truth being preached, and youlaying your life out in front of
(41:11):
us, yeah, your faults, andshowing us you're real.
Yeah, that's what it's all aboutto me.
Yeah, is when I experience theHoly Spirit moving and realizing
I don't have to be in aspotlighted area.
That's right.
You serve where you're createdand be open to do what the
(41:31):
Lord's director you do.
So when your pastor says, I needyou to sand this writing off of
a table, yeah, yeah, that's notbeneath me.
That's an honor to do that in myhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
My God's house is my house.
Yeah.
Amen.
Amen.
I love it.
It's about being part of thefamily.
Absolutely.
Being part of the family,absolutely, part of the team.
SPEAKER_02 (41:54):
And and to honor an authority in my life.
It doesn't have to do with I'molder than you, you're younger
than me.
You're in a position God'splaced you.
Right.
So I honor my pastor bylistening and praying for him
every single day.
I have to pray for my pastorbecause I know the evil that is
(42:17):
trying to take things out thatare for good.
We're gonna win.
That's right.
That's right.
And that's what one of thethings you do, you point.
This is the way we're going.
You go with us or you don't.
Yeah.
And that's I'm going.
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
Yeah.
I'm going.
Not backing down.
Right.
Not moving.
Right.
That's right.
That's right.
Keep it on, keeping on.
Straightway.
Right.
Amen.
Don't give up.
Amen.
Well, Brother Paul, I appreciateyou coming on this podcast.
Honored to be here.
And I know that we've encouragedsome parents out there.
Yes.
Uh, and and I and I think also,too, we have encouraged some
children uh that may be young,but also some some children that
(42:52):
are now adults.
Yeah.
That if if they are blessed andhave the gift of their parents
still living, yes, they could goback and just say, Thank you.
I love you.
SPEAKER_02 (42:59):
Absolutely.
I encourage, take the time rightnow to thank them and love on
them because you might not havetomorrow.
That's right.
And and when they're gone,they're gone.
Yeah.
If they're saved, we'll seethem.
That's right.
But they're still gone.
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (43:14):
Father, we just we thank you.
We thank you, Father, for thisepisode.
We we we thank you, Father, forthe testimonies that you've
given us, but you're justworking out those testimonies
new every day.
Every day we're just adding onto what you are doing in our
lives, and we are grateful forthat.
If there be anyone out therethat has not yet received Jesus
(43:34):
Christ as King of Kings and Lordof Lords, as Savior of their
life and soul, I would justencourage you to say a prayer
like this (43:41):
Lord Jesus, I'm a sinner and I repent of my sins.
I recognize that you died on thecross so that I could be
forgiven.
And I ask you to come into mylife, forgive me and save my
soul.
Fill me with the power of yourHoly Spirit in Jesus Christ's
name and blood.
Amen.
Amen and amen.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.