Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey podcast world, welcome back to another episode
of Beyond Sunday.
We have a special guest heretoday, kind of doing an
interview series over the summerand got connected with a guy
named Scott LaPierre.
Got connected with him about afew weeks ago and just wanted to
kind of come in and talk withhim a little bit.
He's an author, he's a pastorand he's a coach and does a lot
of things in life.
(00:23):
You're going to love his storytoday.
Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thanks a lot, Nick.
Glad to be here with you andyour audience.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So, just so my audience can know who you are,
let's kind of start with yourstory.
Let's start with your story offaith.
How did you come to faith inChrist being a pastor now?
That had to have started awhile ago.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, always glad to share my testimony, nick.
So I'll make it concise but Ican elaborate on any part.
So I wasn't raised in aChristian home.
We were Catholic growing up andI never heard the gospel.
And then in my early 20s, well,my brother and I was just my
brother and I growing uptogether and we were 14 months
apart in age.
He was 14 months younger thanme and I don't know if you're
(01:05):
familiar with grunge or rememberlike Nirvana when all that came
out.
But my brother got prettyserious into that and kind of
took a different direction.
We'd always both been reallyinto athletics and academics.
And then he kind of got intogrunge and it's like you know
things plummeted his academicsand so then he got into drugs
and in my early 20s he ended updying of a drug overdose and
(01:27):
that was a real tragic, shockingevent because he didn't look
like you're drugging on thestreet, he'd actually enlisted
and so it looked like his lifewas dramatically improving.
And that was one thing we hadtogether in common because we
didn't have any military, anyveterans in our family, and so
(01:52):
when we both had the military incommon our relationship kind of
improved.
But when he was in the military.
He joined the 82nd Airborne andwas jumping out of planes and
got lots of pills and he alreadyhad been taking pills, I
believe.
So he got a pretty severe pilladdiction and then overdosed,
and so my dad called me andshared that news with me and I
knew something was up, becausemy dad is a quieter man who
(02:13):
doesn't call me it's usually mymom and so I was an elementary
school teacher at that time.
I'd gotten out of the militaryand I was teaching with a
handful of Christians that weregoing to Calvary Chapel, and one
of my fellow teachers herfather was the pastor of this
church and they knew I wasstruggling and they're like, hey
, why don't you come to ourchurch, talk to our pastor?
He lost his brother when he wasabout your age, and so you know
(02:35):
, nick, I went to this church.
I didn't go to be saved or bornagain, because those were not
terms in the Catholic church,and I pretty much already
thought I'm going to heaven.
You know, according toCatholicism, good people go to
heaven, bad people go to hell.
And I'm a good person andpretty much like everyone thinks
, and so I go to this CalvaryChapel just to talk to the
pastor and I walk in.
I didn't bring a Bible becauseI'd never brought one to the
(02:56):
Catholic church and they handedme one.
It was a little preciousmoments Bible.
So I kind of got a kick out ofthe sense of humor they had and
the pastor read a verse,explained it.
Read a verse, explained it, andit was just a life-changing
moment for me because I couldunderstand God's word.
I believe that he was speakingto me through it and if you're
familiar with Catholicism,people don't read the Bible.
(03:16):
It's kind of viewed as thisvery taboo cryptic book that
nobody can understand.
And if you want to understandanything, talk to a priest or
listen to what the Pope declaresfor the church, the Catholic
church, and so I'm just sittingthere and it's incredible that I
can understand the Bible and Inever even got to talk to the
pastor that first Sunday and Iwas already looking forward to
(03:38):
returning the following Sunday.
I heard the gospel soon afterthat and it bore witness.
It contradicted the works-basedgospel and I'm using that
loosely or salvation way to havesalvation in the Catholic
Church that we're sinners, we'rejustified or declared righteous
by grace through faith inChrist.
And so I gave my life to Christand then something I didn't
expect happened my passion forteaching and coaching because I
(04:01):
really loved being an elementaryschool teacher and coach, I'd
be in my classroom on theweekends and after school and I
just found it really, reallydecreasing.
And I found my passion forministry increasing and I was
getting opportunities to teachin the church you know midweek
studies or home fellowships andpeople started kind of talking
to me like, hey, have you everthought of becoming a pastor?
(04:21):
And so then there were thechurch that had a part-time
youth pastor position locallyand they were having trouble
filling it because nobody wantsto fly across the country to
take a part-time job.
So I interviewed, they hired meand then so I was a part-time
youth pastor, which workedreally well with my elementary
school schedule, having summersand weekends off with my
(04:42):
students.
And then the church grew andthey hired me full time, kind of
as an associate pastor.
I did that and then I steppedaway from school teaching and
did that a couple of years.
But honestly, nick, I'm notreally a youth pastor.
You know, I guess I don't havethat cool fun gene.
You know that youth pastors haveto have and stay up all night
eating worms and playing videogames, and so I wanted to preach
(05:03):
the word to adults, and I'mdefinitely not.
That's not a commentary on myview of youth pastors.
I have a lot of respect forthem.
I just wasn't good at it, andso my pastor mentored me to be a
teaching or senior pastor, andthen we came to Woodland in 2010
.
And so almost 15 years ago, andbeen here since then.
So, and my wife Katie and I, wegrew up together in Northern
(05:25):
California, and she's expectingour 11th child, and that you
know, people are always like Ican't believe you have 11 kids
and I'm like I can't believe Ihave 11 kids.
You know, that makes two of us,and so we just got married and
some people say, oh well, youmust've wanted to have a lot of
kids.
I don't really say it like that.
I say that we just wanted Godto be in charge of that area and
again, that's not to say whatother people have to do, but we
(05:48):
just had that conviction andcould have been five kids, or
two or 12.
Seems like it's going to be 11.
So that's a big part of ourlives too is just our family.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
All right.
So let's pause there for amoment, because everybody just
heard you have 11 kids and thereare a million questions in
their head.
So let's talk about range ofage How's the oldest?
And then you've got one comingwhen.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so they're all about 18 months apart.
It kind of seems like God letsthe land lay fallow about nine
months and then we end upgetting pregnant again.
And we thought my wife's 43,nick, and so we've kind of
thought we were done the lastfew kids.
And I mean it's sad.
We know some people in thechurch that are in their mid-30s
and they're trying to havechildren, you know, or some
(06:32):
people younger than that whocan't have children at all, and
so God keeps giving us childrenand it's not an easy thing
(07:08):
no-transcript, much less 11 ofthem in total.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So God bless you.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
When my wife and I have beenmarried 18 years, we have a
14-year-old 13-year-old, I wastelling you earlier, my daughter
just graduated middle school.
So we're going into this newhigh school season and my boy
plays travel, sports, baseballand that into church life and
life gets busy very quickly.
(07:39):
And then add a dozen kids inthere.
How do you and your wife managethe balance of home and the
calling you have for the gospel,because the church never really
stops right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, well said, brother.
And the difficult or the reason, the main reason, as you know,
that many pastors sacrificetheir marriages or their
families kind of on the altar ofministry is you're doing a good
thing, you know you're notvisiting a bar, you're studying
God's word or you're meetingwith someone, and so it's hard
to say no to things, becausewhen you say no in ministry
you're saying no to good things.
And so not that I've alwaysdone it perfectly, nick, but
(08:16):
it's an issue of priorities andI try to listen to my family and
let them share their thoughtswith me.
My wife just told me thismorning, talking to me about my
schedule and business this week,and so the reality is to say
yes to my family at times meanssaying no to people, but there's
other individuals at our church, there's other elders and
(08:36):
there's other people who can dothings.
The whole load doesn't have tobe on my shoulders, and so I can
if I'm really.
The church should want me tohave a healthy, strong marriage
and a healthy, strong family,and so I've never been
criticized for that.
I've left events early to go andput my kids to bed, because
that's what my wife wants, andso it really just means trying
(08:57):
to prioritize, and so you know Ido some authoring and I could
have a lot more books if Ididn't prioritize my marriage
but or my kids, you know.
And so I do some speaking and soI often try to take kids with
me on trips, to give themspecial trips.
We have to be very intentionalto spend time with them and we
try to monthly.
We have a schedule where we tryto monthly take each child out
(09:19):
and my boys I have teenage boysand we know the struggle for
teenage boys purity, and so Itold the church I'm like, hey, I
want to start a Saturdaymorning men's young men's group
not men's group, young men'sgroup going through JC Ryle's
book Thoughts for Young Men, andI had a lot of reason to want
to do that.
I got teenage boys that Iwanted to attend that study and
I've told the church bring youryoung men to that too.
(09:40):
So I definitely try to focus onministry that allows me to both
minister to the church and myfamily like that group.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I find the same thing.
Saying no to somebody in thechurch is hard because you're
saying no to a good thing andyou're saying no to a person
right, a person that needs helpor wants their pastor involved.
But if you say yes to them,you're also saying no to home
life.
And my church is very similar.
We have a great elder board,great staff, and everybody wants
(10:11):
us to have a healthy marriage.
I find I'm the worst enemy inthat I'm the one that's the
struggle.
It's not my staff, it's not myelders, I'm the one that
struggles saying no.
So, trying to always find thatbalance, if you will.
Now, you mentioned a moment agothat you're an author, so let's
talk about that for a moment.
What kind of books have youwritten?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, so they're all Christian, Christian nonfiction
or Christian living, and they'reall born out of my sermons.
So I don't have the bandwidthto write.
I don't have the bandwidth andI don't have the interest.
I'm actually not a huge fan ofwriting.
I'm a fan of preparing sermons,I'm a fan of studying God's
Word and preaching, and there'skind of two categories.
You've got the pastors thatmanuscript their sermons, and
(10:52):
I'm in that category, and thenyou have pastors that kind of
have maybe abbreviated notes,just jarring their memory what
to say.
And so, because I manuscript mysermons, I'm polishing and
refining this manuscriptthroughout the week, and so for
years my wife was telling me,hey, you need to turn some of
these sermons into books, and Ikind of kept putting her off
(11:14):
because I didn't need more to doin my life.
And then I preached a series onmarriage in my church and the
other thing too, there's lots ofcommentary.
So if you, I preach verse byverse through books of the Bible
and it's not really I mean,it's not like commentaries
aren't valuable I can show you,you know, bookshelves filled
with commentaries in my office,but I'm not sure the world needs
an extra commentary, you know,on Luke or first Samuel, and so
(11:35):
I couldn't even turn a lot of mysermons just as I preach, verse
by verse, into books, because Iwasn't going to provide another
commentary.
But when I'd preach on sometopics like marriage, finances,
trials, I was able to turn thosebooks into, or turn those
sermon manuscripts into books.
It's not like it's not like aperfect fit.
Like you know, the first sermonis chapter one, the second
(11:57):
sermon is chapter two, but I dohave a lot of polished material
that I spend time turning intobooks.
But if it here's the thing,nick, if you read it, I preached
on it.
I don't have anything.
You know, like Harvest House,they I had a multi-book deal
with them and I think they werewanting my next book to be on
parenting.
You know kind of figure, and Iknow what I'm doing if I have 11
(12:17):
kids, which isn't isn't true.
But anyway, but it's like, whydon't I have a parenting book?
I mean, someone could, anyonecould wonder that.
And it's like I just haven'tpreached on parenting and I
don't not enough at least tohave a book from it, and I don't
have the bandwidth to sit downand write something right, about
parenting.
I mean, if I'm going to, if I'mgoing to write something, it's
going to have to be my sermonsfor for my church.
So let's talk about thatmarriage book.
(12:41):
What's it called?
It's called your Marriage,god's Way, and that was my first
, my first book, and there wasan accompanying workbook and it
did surprisingly well.
And I didn't know how well itdid until I published other
books and saw how poorly thosedid in comparison to it.
So there's not a whole lot ofmoney, you know, selling books.
That's.
There are two different things,nick, and there's a reason that
(13:02):
a lot of people only publishone book because they're
discouraged by the sales and thework behind it.
So honestly, nick, I would tellanyone this I don't know how
many of your listeners mightaspire to write, and I I mean if
I want to see anyone writing,it's Christians.
And I mean, and then beyondthat, if I want to see any
Christians writing, it's pastors.
So I don't know how manypastors listen to your show, but
(13:23):
I love to see pastors write andI try to help pastors publish
books.
But I tell them ahead of time,because expectations shape
experiences.
You need to know, going intothis, that the top 1% of books
sell about 5,000 copies a year.
A lot of other books only sella couple hundred copies, maybe
per year, but maybe over.
If it's self-published, thenit's only going to sell about
(13:44):
200 copies on average, andmostly to friends and family.
So you probably won't even makeback the money that you spend
on editing cover, design,interior.
So you got to have anothermotivation is my point and
that's got to be equippingpeople, pointing them toward
Christ, and that's where I getpaid by my church.
You know, I don't have to liveoff my author income forged by
God's grace, because I wouldn'tbe able to, and so but I have
(14:06):
them.
I enjoy believing peoplegetting more mileage out of my
sermons.
You know, seeing them in books,believing God, stretching them
further, using them in people'slives.
That's incredibly satisfying tome and that's kind of what
keeps me going with writing.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I've got a book .
My third book's coming out intwo weeks and it's based on a
conversation I had with my niece.
Yeah, she called me and she saidhey, uncle Nick, I don't know
what I'm doing.
I can't, I don't know where tostart.
It doesn't make sense to me.
What if I do it wrong?
She's asking all thesequestions that everybody has and
I thought, well, I'll send yousome resources, and got off the
(14:43):
phone with her and thought I'mgoing to have to send her 20
books, and so I really that justcame out of a personal
experience and decided to sitdown and write that.
But let's jump on your marriagebook for a moment, because one
of the things my podcasters dolisten for is kind of marriage
advice and marriage tips.
So what do you believe are someof the most common problems
couples face today in marriage?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, so I got a few answers to that, nick.
I mean I could talk about thisall day.
When I talk about speaking, Ibasically mean doing marriage
conferences.
I do a few like my wife and Iare going to Colorado to speak
at a homeschooling conferenceKevin Swanson's homeschool
conference in a few weeks inJune but primarily my speaking
is doing marriage conferences atchurches and event centers
throughout the nation, and sothat's really my passion.
(15:27):
I've delivered a lot of thesemessages I don't know how many
times lots, and I still enjoy itas much because I'm very
passionate about this area.
So if you ask me to talk aboutmarriage, you'll probably have
to stop me.
I'll just go on and on.
But the big thing I see, nick,is I see, very sadly, even in
the church, people being shapedby the culture versus being
shaped by God's word, and I seepastors shrinking away from
(15:48):
telling people what scripturesays, and I'll give you one
example that I hope might be anencouragement.
So I'm pastoring a prettyconservative church that has a
heart to hear God's wordpreached boldly, so it's not
like a challenging environment.
You know, I don't like get upto talk about wives submitting
to their husbands and wonder ifpeople are going to throw
tomatoes at me or something likethat.
Well, I was invited to speak atthis marriage conference that a
(16:11):
radio station was putting onand I didn't know any of the
other speakers.
So they bring the, they bringthe keynote speakers together
for a planning session and we'regoing around the room and one
speaker says I'm going to talkabout husbands loving their
wives.
The next speaker, which is ahusband and wife team, they said
we're going to talk aboutcommunication and I thought,
well, you know, there's amessage for husbands, let's have
(16:31):
a message for wives.
I said I'll talk about wivessubmitting to their husbands,
and it's just like the wholeroom just goes silent, you know,
everyone's heads go down andit's like, you know, did he just
say?
Did he just say he's going totalk about wives submitting to
their husbands, and so that kindof cause.
I'm sort of used to my niceconservative, biblical
environment, you know, preachingthe word, and if people want me
to go to a marriage conferenceat their church, they they
(16:52):
probably know what they're goingto get, that I'm going to talk
about marriage very biblically,and this was clearly a more
liberal environment than I'mused to.
And I'm getting to a point withthis.
So I asked them, I said, wouldyou guys just trust me to handle
this topic delicately?
And this one guy, he pipes upfinally after someone speaks and
(17:13):
goes.
You know well, I don't reallylike to use the word submission.
I use the word defer and I'mlike you know, the Bible uses
the word submission.
It's repeated.
It's not like it's not a vagueshadowy.
You know, it's like wivessubmit.
That occurs four or five times.
Titus 2, older women teachyounger women to obey their
husbands at this conference.
(17:34):
And this is what wasfascinating, nick.
I don't think I'm the bestpreacher or something like that,
but my message got goodfeedback because I think God's
people desire truth and it'srefreshing for them when it's
preached clearly.
And so there's people listening,even women, and their spirit.
Their flesh might resist it,but their spirit yearns to hear
God's word.
And I don't mean preaching itauthoritatively or abusively or
(17:58):
something, I'm just sayingpresenting the plain teaching of
scripture.
And when I did that I think itwas kind of like, wow, you know
someone that's just going totell us what the word says and
they're not going to sugarcoatit and, you know, try to massage
it and remove all thepointedness and just present it
as it is in there and talk aboutwhat it means and doesn't mean
for wives to submit.
Present it as it is in thereand talk about what it means and
doesn't mean for wives tosubmit.
(18:19):
And so my point is, in answerto your question, I just see
this very strong aversion tobeing clear with people about
what Scripture says.
And that leaves, you know, wedon't want to talk about
husbands leading in the home, wedon't want to talk about
husbands being the head of therelationship or the spiritual
leader, you know, because that'sgoing to seem, that might seem
a little chauvinistic or or evenbarbaric.
And but one of the one of theinteresting things, nick, that
(18:40):
I'll share with your listenersis what I've noticed as I talk
about marriage is becausesubmission is almost viewed as
this sort of like taboo thing.
You would expect women just tobe coming up complaining saying
I can't believe that God's wordcommands wives to submit to
their husbands, but I've neveronce heard a woman say that.
Do you know the biggest?
Can you guess the biggestcomplaint that I do hear from
women frequently?
(19:01):
I wish my husband would lead.
My husband is not a spiritualleader.
I wish he would pray with me.
I wish he would read the wordwith me.
So I don't hear wivescomplaining about having to
submit to their husbandsalthough I'm not saying it comes
easy for wives.
I hear wives complaining thattheir husbands are not spiritual
men or spiritual leaders in thehome.
I think a lot of women want torespect their husband.
They want a man to look up to.
(19:22):
They want a man to lead up to.
They want a man to lead.
God's just built women that wayand he's built men to lead.
It might come a little easierfor some men to lead than others
, but God does want us to beleaders in our homes and I feel
like if you have a strongspiritual man, this is one of
the other things, nick, I feellike maybe, as churches are kind
of feminized a bit, men arediscouraged from leading in
(19:45):
their homes because they don'tsee men leading in the church,
and so it's a disconnect.
If a church is being led bywomen and I'm definitely not
saying women don't have placesin churches or places leading
women or leading children orserving in different ministries
women can be great assets in thechurch and different positions
and roles, positions and roles.
But when a church is primarilyled by women, the men in that
(20:07):
church not only do they notserve or grow, but they also
don't see the need to be leadersin their homes, and so I think
that's a big problem the absenceof male leadership in the
marriage, because generally mostwives, if a husband says let's
pray or read the Word, you'regoing to have a wife who's
thrilled about that right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So let me ask the question.
You made an interesting pointon churches being feminized.
That happens not because thewomen are stronger in leadership
, but because the men aren'tstepping up to lead and so that
becomes kind of a naturalselection within churches that
they become that way.
So how do we get from a placeor how do we get men to step up
(20:49):
and be leaders both in theirmarriage but also in the church?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, I appreciate what you're saying, nick.
There's kind of that vacuum.
Then if men are not stepping upin that role, then women
inevitably kind of fill in andwomen off sometimes have more
time.
Let's say, a guy's working 40,50 hours a week and his wife is
staying home or taking care ofkids, she might have more time
or more flexibility to beinvolved with the church and so
(21:13):
she sort of naturally takes onthose different leadership roles
and so really it's kind of solascriptura we need to go back to
God's word, see what it saysand hold to that versus
tradition and versus culture.
And really if men will preachthese truths, I believe that
they're well-received.
(21:33):
I think there's a sphere like,if I say this and I'm going to
lose my church or I'm going toupset all these people, there
might be a few people that areupset, but for most people they
know this is what God's wordsays.
It's not like a hidden truthand that people are going to act
like they've never heard thatbefore.
And so when men begin to lead,I do think it is genuinely
received well by the church, andI think there's a lot of women
(21:55):
that are waiting, wishing theirhusbands would be more spiritual
in the home and even in thechurch too.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I would say that that is probably a common counseling
question that I get from womenis hey, how can I get my husband
to lead?
Sometimes it's how can I get myhusband to come to church?
But even with the guys thatcome to church, how can I get
them to lead?
I want them to and we don't sitand talk about that submission
idea in that moment.
But in that moment they'redesiring for their husband to be
(22:26):
who god's called them to be.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
but culturally we've stepped away from that for some
reason within the church cultureyeah, well said and I'll share
something brother you met, youmade a good point there or
you're kind of.
You're kind of looking tosomething that I think some
women are not totally aware of,and I've noticed this from
marriage conferences andquestions that I've received.
So let's just say for a momentthat we tend to project
(22:50):
ourselves on others.
So you and I I mean knowingthat they look at me and they
think they can't do what I doRight, and I'm amazed.
I'm like how can you build yourown house?
(23:11):
How do you know how to work onyour car?
I just those aren't skills Ihave.
And they look at me and they'relike how do you get up front?
But because that comes easier tome than building a house I
assume that's easy, for Nick isa lot of men want to be
spiritual leaders, but firstthey don't know what it means or
what it looks like.
They're like where do I begin?
And second, there's a fearabout it.
And so this gentleman this isthe first time I noticed this A
(23:34):
guy comes up to me at a marriageconference.
He talks to me privately Icould tell that it was a
sensitive subject just from hisdemeanor and he says you know
I'm listening to you.
I want to be a spiritual leaderin my home, but what does that
look like?
How do I do that?
You know, how do I read theword of my family?
And I was like, wow, that'sinteresting.
Okay, you know, go ahead andchoose a book of the Bible that
you enjoy and that you'refamiliar with, and start at
(23:54):
chapter one, verse one, and kindof read a verse and see if your
family wants to share anythoughts.
But just telling him somethingthat simply and that basic gave
him the knowledge he needed tobe able to go home and read the
word of this family.
The other thing is, I found thatmen have a lot of fear, and
this is where women come in tothis, nick.
(24:15):
Women are not aware of thegreat influence they have on
their husbands.
And I'll give you an example.
There's a gentleman, a greatguy, in my church.
I'm counseling them and hiswife really wants him to read
the word with her.
I don't want to look like I'mcorrecting him in front of her,
so I talked to him privately andI'm like hey brother, you know,
your wife wants you to read theword with her.
I really think if you do that,it's going to be a big blessing,
help your marriage.
They come back like a week ortwo later and he, he says to me
(24:37):
I'm never going to read the wordwith my wife again and I'm like
what?
This is like the opposite ofwhat I expect.
So he says everything I said.
She questioned, she disagreedwith every interpretation I had
of every verse.
She told me I'm mispronouncingeverything, I need to go talk to
the pastor at church and hebasically said it was
humiliating.
And so that's what I mean.
So if a wife, my wife, she doesladies conferences at our
(25:06):
church and she asked me a coupleyears ago to come speak at the
women's conference, which I saidI can do that, and I think the
women are kind of like what'sthe pastor Scott doing here
talking at speaking at thewomen's conference?
So I shared with this group ofwomen the influence they have on
their husbands and how afraidtheir husbands might be to read
the word or pray with theirfamily.
You know, what if I don't knowwhat to say?
What if I fumble my prayer?
What if I can't answer thisquestion about this verse?
What if you know?
And these women are like, wow,you know, I never thought that I
(25:27):
never thought of that beforeand I said ladies, if you want
to make a withdrawal when yourhusband's teaching the Bible or
reading the Bible with you, youcan do that, but you need to
make sure you've made a bunchmore deposits than that.
You know, don't compare yourhusband with someone.
Don't tell him.
Don't tell him he doesn't thisat every marriage conference.
I don't care how badly yourhusband does when he teaches the
(25:48):
Bible or reads the Bible withhis family.
You look at him and thank himfor being a godly man.
You know, put your hand on hisleg, look him in the eyes and
say, hey, I know that there'sonly like 0.001% of the
population of women who actuallyhas a husband who reads the
word with her.
So I'm so thankful for you, youknow.
Give your husband thatencouragement.
He needs to want to keep doingthat, because I think a lot of
women are.
(26:08):
Naturally they might be kind ofcritical, like you know.
Why are you choosing thoseverses?
I don't think the kids aregoing to understand this.
Do we have to do this Biblestudy right now?
I'm not sure that's correctwhat you're saying.
Those are the sorts of thingsthat really defeat men and hurt
their burden to be leaders inthe home.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, and I want to say something real quick,
because every story you'retelling I can think of a couple
I've talked to with those samestories.
The husbands felt humiliated asthe wife knew more scripture
than he did.
But the wife really wanted theBible study with her husband but
it just didn't go how they bothimagined it going, which made
the husband shrink back, thewife get mad that he didn't want
(26:52):
to do it anymore and thisperpetual cycle happens right,
and the guy just doesn't knowwhat to do and the wife's
frustrated.
But it does come back to whatwe talked a little bit about
earlier, about the struggleswith men in leadership within
the church.
We have about 100 guys in men'sBible studies throughout the
week and I think, man, that is agreat place to start right.
(27:14):
Like just get in with otherguys and talk scripture.
You made the comment that mostpeople don't think they could
talk on stage like we do and youknow we hear that a lot, that's
a fear of people jumping onstage.
But to your point, like know wehear that a lot, that's a fear
of people jumping on stage.
But to your point, like Icouldn't build a house, I
couldn't do a lot of things.
My church knows I'm not handyat all, but the heart's there
(27:39):
right, and so, even with thethings I'm not handy at, we've
got a shelf that fell at thehouse recently and I've put off
trying to fix it because I knowI'm not going to do it right.
But my wife and I were talkingabout this morning.
We just got to try, right.
We just got to put it back upIf it doesn't go.
Well, I know people, but wehave to start somewhere.
So I had a lot of topics Iwanted to cover with you today.
We may jump to some other ones,another podcast, but let's kind
(28:01):
of wrap up this marriage talk,if you will.
If you had the opportunity tosit across from someone that's
listening to this podcast todayand their marriage is hard right
, whether it's the wife or thehusband, whether it's the
biblical side or just a toughseason of marriage, what would
be without knowing specifics oftheir life?
What would be your advice tothem?
(28:21):
As a starting point?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I think that's great, Nick, and definitely, as
you know, by the time peoplecome to talk to you about their
marriage problems, they shouldhave come to talk to you like
six months earlier or yearsearlier.
So they're not coming with likea little issue, they're coming
where it's like they're not.
These people aren't, you know,talking anymore.
They're like more likeroommates or business partners,
(28:45):
and so you almost wonder whereto begin.
And so I feel this verystrongly, nick.
I feel like our marriages arereflections of our relationship
with Christ, and so what I meanby that is we generally treat
our spouse the way we do becauseof our relationship with Christ
.
And so to help people grow,let's say, vertically, is to
help them grow horizontally.
And so picture this scenariolet's say a couple comes in and
(29:07):
they're all upset with eachother and I say something like
tell me what your devotionaltime looks like.
You know, I know them, they'reprobably in my church and I know
that maybe out of the last fewmonths, they go to church about
half the time, two Sundays outof four, right, so I see Christ
as not a priority to them.
So I say to them, so I say tothem what does your prayer life.
Look like, what is your time inthe word look like.
And the guy's like why are youasking me that?
(29:28):
I just told you how my wifedisrespects me?
Or the woman says why are youtalking to me about my time in
the word when I just told you myhusband's screaming at me or
getting drunk or something?
Were you not listening?
And I'll say I was listening.
But I'm telling you that ifyou'll improve the relationship
with Christ generally, thesehorizontal issues have a way of
working themselves out, and sothat's why I'm not trying to be
(29:51):
a referee.
I used to be, I think, a badmarriage counselor because I'm
going to referee and helpeveryone figure out who's right
and who's wrong, which doesnothing to improve the
relationship.
And so I'm trying to get peopleto strengthen their
relationship with the Lord and Ireally believe that as their
relationship with the Lordstrengthens, then their marriage
strengthens or the relationship.
Every horizontal relationshipis improved through a stronger
(30:13):
relationship with Christ.
So I'm generally talking topeople like hey, let's start.
You know, reading the wordhere's.
I give people homework.
You know, this week I'd likeyou to read Ephesians 5, the
marriage passage, every singleevening together and every
morning together, or then firstPeter three or I'd like you to
make sure you pray togetherevery morning and every evening.
You know, husband, it's on youto make sure that the couple
(30:33):
does that.
And so once so you know whatthey really want when they come
in and you know this is, theyjust want that that referee to
just say who's right and who'swrong, and that that always kind
of that doesn't, doesn't helpthings.
And so to point them back toChrist and get them practicing
those spiritual disciplines.
I think marriages inevitably doimprove when people will commit
(30:53):
to doing that.
So if you're listening to thisand your marriage is struggling,
then I would say you know,spend the time in God's word.
Try to spend some time in God'sword with your spouse.
If your wife, you know, don'texpect a John MacArthur sermon
or Billy Graham crusade fromyour husband.
He's working all week.
Just be happy that he's readingwith you verse by verse, that,
because the power is in God'sword to go out and wash over and
(31:15):
sanctify.
I mean Ephesians 5.25 saysGod's word sanctifies and
cleanses.
It's not in the husband'soratory ability, you know.
It's not like if he's winsomeand charismatic, then the
sanctification is going to begreater.
The word is what's sanctifying.
So as long as the husband isreading it and it's washing over
the family, it's going to behaving that sanctifying effect
and improving the relationship.
So that's what I do.
(31:35):
I generally point people backto Christ and back to the word
to see those spiritualdisciplines improve.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I mean, that's the foundational right.
Like their foundation isn'tright?
They're focusing on all thewrong things, and the right
things they don't even take timefor and you're right, I mean,
by the time they get to us,we're firefighters trying to put
out a massive blaze that wewould wish we could have seen
when it started.
So let me ask you this wewanted to talk a little bit
(32:02):
about biblical finances andtrials today, but maybe we'll
come back and do that anotherday.
We wanted to talk a little bitabout biblical finances and
trials today, but maybe we'llcome back and do that another
day.
If people want to connect withyou, if they want to hear more
of your story or pick up yourbooks, how can they connect with
you?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, so my website, scottloffierorg and you'll
probably put the link to it inthe show notes is the hub you
know.
Everything kind of goes outfrom there.
You can find my sermons, mybooks, my speaking engagements,
my YouTube channel, or prettymuch.
Just going to my website allowsyou to find and you can contact
me through it if you have anyquestions.
And then the other thing is Igot a free gift for your
(32:34):
listeners.
It's called Seven BiblicalInsights for Marriage and it's a
short read it's not a full bookand you can go to my website.
You can download that for freeand I hope that would be a
blessing to your listeners.
And so, yeah, that's the placeto find me.
So thanks for having me on theshow, nick.
I appreciate what you're doingand your ministry and just
connecting with another pastorand brother in Christ like this.
So thanks for your heart forpeople to be growing in their
(32:56):
relationships with the Lord.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Nick, now, I was thrilled that you could make the
time today, and it's alwaysgreat to connect with another
pastor that's preaching verse byverse, because that is less
common in today's world.
I another pastor that'spreaching verse by verse,
because that is less common intoday's world.
I kind of do a mixture of thetwo, but we're 36 weeks in
Romans right now, walkingthrough the whole book this year
, so I can appreciate that forsure.
And it's going on.
Hey, podcast listeners, if youwant to know more about Scott,
(33:21):
please jump on his website.
Download that short book thathe's got.
Dive into your marriage.
Make it a priority.
Make sure your relationshipwith God is foundational.
If you're struggling, let thatbe the first place that you go.
I hope you have an incredibleweek and we will talk to you
again next week.
Hey podcast world, welcome back to another episode
of Beyond Sunday.
We have a special guest heretoday, kind of doing an
interview series over the summerand got connected with a guy
named Scott LaPierre.
Got connected with him about afew weeks ago and just wanted to
kind of come in and talk withhim a little bit.
He's an author, he's a pastorand he's a coach and does a lot
of things in life.
(00:23):
You're going to love his storytoday.
Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thanks a lot, Nick.
Glad to be here with you andyour audience.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So, just so my audience can know who you are,
let's kind of start with yourstory.
Let's start with your story offaith.
How did you come to faith inChrist being a pastor now?
That had to have started awhile ago.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, always glad to share my testimony, nick.
So I'll make it concise but Ican elaborate on any part.
So I wasn't raised in aChristian home.
We were Catholic growing up andI never heard the gospel.
And then in my early 20s, well,my brother and I was just my
brother and I growing uptogether and we were 14 months
apart in age.
He was 14 months younger thanme and I don't know if you're
(01:05):
familiar with grunge or rememberlike Nirvana when all that came
out.
But my brother got prettyserious into that and kind of
took a different direction.
We'd always both been reallyinto athletics and academics.
And then he kind of got intogrunge and it's like you know
things plummeted his academicsand so then he got into drugs
and in my early 20s he ended updying of a drug overdose and
(01:27):
that was a real tragic, shockingevent because he didn't look
like you're drugging on thestreet, he'd actually enlisted
and so it looked like his lifewas dramatically improving.
And that was one thing we hadtogether in common because we
didn't have any military, anyveterans in our family, and so
(01:52):
when we both had the military incommon our relationship kind of
improved.
But when he was in the military.
He joined the 82nd Airborne andwas jumping out of planes and
got lots of pills and he alreadyhad been taking pills, I
believe.
So he got a pretty severe pilladdiction and then overdosed,
and so my dad called me andshared that news with me and I
knew something was up, becausemy dad is a quieter man who
(02:13):
doesn't call me it's usually mymom and so I was an elementary
school teacher at that time.
I'd gotten out of the militaryand I was teaching with a
handful of Christians that weregoing to Calvary Chapel, and one
of my fellow teachers herfather was the pastor of this
church and they knew I wasstruggling and they're like, hey
, why don't you come to ourchurch, talk to our pastor?
He lost his brother when he wasabout your age, and so you know
(02:35):
, nick, I went to this church.
I didn't go to be saved or bornagain, because those were not
terms in the Catholic church,and I pretty much already
thought I'm going to heaven.
You know, according toCatholicism, good people go to
heaven, bad people go to hell.
And I'm a good person andpretty much like everyone thinks
, and so I go to this CalvaryChapel just to talk to the
pastor and I walk in.
I didn't bring a Bible becauseI'd never brought one to the
(02:56):
Catholic church and they handedme one.
It was a little preciousmoments Bible.
So I kind of got a kick out ofthe sense of humor they had and
the pastor read a verse,explained it.
Read a verse, explained it, andit was just a life-changing
moment for me because I couldunderstand God's word.
I believe that he was speakingto me through it and if you're
familiar with Catholicism,people don't read the Bible.
(03:16):
It's kind of viewed as thisvery taboo cryptic book that
nobody can understand.
And if you want to understandanything, talk to a priest or
listen to what the Pope declaresfor the church, the Catholic
church, and so I'm just sittingthere and it's incredible that I
can understand the Bible and Inever even got to talk to the
pastor that first Sunday and Iwas already looking forward to
(03:38):
returning the following Sunday.
I heard the gospel soon afterthat and it bore witness.
It contradicted the works-basedgospel and I'm using that
loosely or salvation way to havesalvation in the Catholic
Church that we're sinners, we'rejustified or declared righteous
by grace through faith inChrist.
And so I gave my life to Christand then something I didn't
expect happened my passion forteaching and coaching because I
(04:01):
really loved being an elementaryschool teacher and coach, I'd
be in my classroom on theweekends and after school and I
just found it really, reallydecreasing.
And I found my passion forministry increasing and I was
getting opportunities to teachin the church you know midweek
studies or home fellowships andpeople started kind of talking
to me like, hey, have you everthought of becoming a pastor?
(04:21):
And so then there were thechurch that had a part-time
youth pastor position locallyand they were having trouble
filling it because nobody wantsto fly across the country to
take a part-time job.
So I interviewed, they hired meand then so I was a part-time
youth pastor, which workedreally well with my elementary
school schedule, having summersand weekends off with my
(04:42):
students.
And then the church grew andthey hired me full time, kind of
as an associate pastor.
I did that and then I steppedaway from school teaching and
did that a couple of years.
But honestly, nick, I'm notreally a youth pastor.
You know, I guess I don't havethat cool fun gene.
You know that youth pastors haveto have and stay up all night
eating worms and playing videogames, and so I wanted to preach
(05:03):
the word to adults, and I'mdefinitely not.
That's not a commentary on myview of youth pastors.
I have a lot of respect forthem.
I just wasn't good at it, andso my pastor mentored me to be a
teaching or senior pastor, andthen we came to Woodland in 2010
.
And so almost 15 years ago, andbeen here since then.
So, and my wife Katie and I, wegrew up together in Northern
(05:25):
California, and she's expectingour 11th child, and that you
know, people are always like Ican't believe you have 11 kids
and I'm like I can't believe Ihave 11 kids.
You know, that makes two of us,and so we just got married and
some people say, oh well, youmust've wanted to have a lot of
kids.
I don't really say it like that.
I say that we just wanted Godto be in charge of that area and
again, that's not to say whatother people have to do, but we
(05:48):
just had that conviction andcould have been five kids, or
two or 12.
Seems like it's going to be 11.
So that's a big part of ourlives too is just our family.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
All right.
So let's pause there for amoment, because everybody just
heard you have 11 kids and thereare a million questions in
their head.
So let's talk about range ofage How's the oldest?
And then you've got one comingwhen.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so they're all about 18 months apart.
It kind of seems like God letsthe land lay fallow about nine
months and then we end upgetting pregnant again.
And we thought my wife's 43,nick, and so we've kind of
thought we were done the lastfew kids.
And I mean it's sad.
We know some people in thechurch that are in their mid-30s
and they're trying to havechildren, you know, or some
(06:32):
people younger than that whocan't have children at all, and
so God keeps giving us childrenand it's not an easy thing
(07:08):
no-transcript, much less 11 ofthem in total.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So God bless you.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
When my wife and I have beenmarried 18 years, we have a
14-year-old 13-year-old, I wastelling you earlier, my daughter
just graduated middle school.
So we're going into this newhigh school season and my boy
plays travel, sports, baseballand that into church life and
life gets busy very quickly.
(07:39):
And then add a dozen kids inthere.
How do you and your wife managethe balance of home and the
calling you have for the gospel,because the church never really
stops right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, well said, brother.
And the difficult or the reason, the main reason, as you know,
that many pastors sacrificetheir marriages or their
families kind of on the altar ofministry is you're doing a good
thing, you know you're notvisiting a bar, you're studying
God's word or you're meetingwith someone, and so it's hard
to say no to things, becausewhen you say no in ministry
you're saying no to good things.
And so not that I've alwaysdone it perfectly, nick, but
(08:16):
it's an issue of priorities andI try to listen to my family and
let them share their thoughtswith me.
My wife just told me thismorning, talking to me about my
schedule and business this week,and so the reality is to say
yes to my family at times meanssaying no to people, but there's
other individuals at our church, there's other elders and
(08:36):
there's other people who can dothings.
The whole load doesn't have tobe on my shoulders, and so I can
if I'm really.
The church should want me tohave a healthy, strong marriage
and a healthy, strong family,and so I've never been
criticized for that.
I've left events early to go andput my kids to bed, because
that's what my wife wants, andso it really just means trying
(08:57):
to prioritize, and so you know Ido some authoring and I could
have a lot more books if Ididn't prioritize my marriage
but or my kids, you know.
And so I do some speaking and soI often try to take kids with
me on trips, to give themspecial trips.
We have to be very intentionalto spend time with them and we
try to monthly.
We have a schedule where we tryto monthly take each child out
(09:19):
and my boys I have teenage boysand we know the struggle for
teenage boys purity, and so Itold the church I'm like, hey, I
want to start a Saturdaymorning men's young men's group
not men's group, young men'sgroup going through JC Ryle's
book Thoughts for Young Men, andI had a lot of reason to want
to do that.
I got teenage boys that Iwanted to attend that study and
I've told the church bring youryoung men to that too.
(09:40):
So I definitely try to focus onministry that allows me to both
minister to the church and myfamily like that group.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I find the same thing.
Saying no to somebody in thechurch is hard because you're
saying no to a good thing andyou're saying no to a person
right, a person that needs helpor wants their pastor involved.
But if you say yes to them,you're also saying no to home
life.
And my church is very similar.
We have a great elder board,great staff, and everybody wants
(10:11):
us to have a healthy marriage.
I find I'm the worst enemy inthat I'm the one that's the
struggle.
It's not my staff, it's not myelders, I'm the one that
struggles saying no.
So, trying to always find thatbalance, if you will.
Now, you mentioned a moment agothat you're an author, so let's
talk about that for a moment.
What kind of books have youwritten?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, so they're all Christian, Christian nonfiction
or Christian living, and they'reall born out of my sermons.
So I don't have the bandwidthto write.
I don't have the bandwidth andI don't have the interest.
I'm actually not a huge fan ofwriting.
I'm a fan of preparing sermons,I'm a fan of studying God's
Word and preaching, and there'skind of two categories.
You've got the pastors thatmanuscript their sermons, and
(10:52):
I'm in that category, and thenyou have pastors that kind of
have maybe abbreviated notes,just jarring their memory what
to say.
And so, because I manuscript mysermons, I'm polishing and
refining this manuscriptthroughout the week, and so for
years my wife was telling me,hey, you need to turn some of
these sermons into books, and Ikind of kept putting her off
(11:14):
because I didn't need more to doin my life.
And then I preached a series onmarriage in my church and the
other thing too, there's lots ofcommentary.
So if you, I preach verse byverse through books of the Bible
and it's not really I mean,it's not like commentaries
aren't valuable I can show you,you know, bookshelves filled
with commentaries in my office,but I'm not sure the world needs
an extra commentary, you know,on Luke or first Samuel, and so
(11:35):
I couldn't even turn a lot of mysermons just as I preach, verse
by verse, into books, because Iwasn't going to provide another
commentary.
But when I'd preach on sometopics like marriage, finances,
trials, I was able to turn thosebooks into, or turn those
sermon manuscripts into books.
It's not like it's not like aperfect fit.
Like you know, the first sermonis chapter one, the second
(11:57):
sermon is chapter two, but I dohave a lot of polished material
that I spend time turning intobooks.
But if it here's the thing,nick, if you read it, I preached
on it.
I don't have anything.
You know, like Harvest House,they I had a multi-book deal
with them and I think they werewanting my next book to be on
parenting.
You know kind of figure, and Iknow what I'm doing if I have 11
(12:17):
kids, which isn't isn't true.
But anyway, but it's like, whydon't I have a parenting book?
I mean, someone could, anyonecould wonder that.
And it's like I just haven'tpreached on parenting and I
don't not enough at least tohave a book from it, and I don't
have the bandwidth to sit downand write something right, about
parenting.
I mean, if I'm going to, if I'mgoing to write something, it's
going to have to be my sermonsfor for my church.
So let's talk about thatmarriage book.
(12:41):
What's it called?
It's called your Marriage,god's Way, and that was my first
, my first book, and there wasan accompanying workbook and it
did surprisingly well.
And I didn't know how well itdid until I published other
books and saw how poorly thosedid in comparison to it.
So there's not a whole lot ofmoney, you know, selling books.
That's.
There are two different things,nick, and there's a reason that
(13:02):
a lot of people only publishone book because they're
discouraged by the sales and thework behind it.
So honestly, nick, I would tellanyone this I don't know how
many of your listeners mightaspire to write, and I I mean if
I want to see anyone writing,it's Christians.
And I mean, and then beyondthat, if I want to see any
Christians writing, it's pastors.
So I don't know how manypastors listen to your show, but
(13:23):
I love to see pastors write andI try to help pastors publish
books.
But I tell them ahead of time,because expectations shape
experiences.
You need to know, going intothis, that the top 1% of books
sell about 5,000 copies a year.
A lot of other books only sella couple hundred copies, maybe
per year, but maybe over.
If it's self-published, thenit's only going to sell about
(13:44):
200 copies on average, andmostly to friends and family.
So you probably won't even makeback the money that you spend
on editing cover, design,interior.
So you got to have anothermotivation is my point and
that's got to be equippingpeople, pointing them toward
Christ, and that's where I getpaid by my church.
You know, I don't have to liveoff my author income forged by
God's grace, because I wouldn'tbe able to, and so but I have
(14:06):
them.
I enjoy believing peoplegetting more mileage out of my
sermons.
You know, seeing them in books,believing God, stretching them
further, using them in people'slives.
That's incredibly satisfying tome and that's kind of what
keeps me going with writing.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I've got a book .
My third book's coming out intwo weeks and it's based on a
conversation I had with my niece.
Yeah, she called me and she saidhey, uncle Nick, I don't know
what I'm doing.
I can't, I don't know where tostart.
It doesn't make sense to me.
What if I do it wrong?
She's asking all thesequestions that everybody has and
I thought, well, I'll send yousome resources, and got off the
(14:43):
phone with her and thought I'mgoing to have to send her 20
books, and so I really that justcame out of a personal
experience and decided to sitdown and write that.
But let's jump on your marriagebook for a moment, because one
of the things my podcasters dolisten for is kind of marriage
advice and marriage tips.
So what do you believe are someof the most common problems
couples face today in marriage?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, so I got a few answers to that, nick.
I mean I could talk about thisall day.
When I talk about speaking, Ibasically mean doing marriage
conferences.
I do a few like my wife and Iare going to Colorado to speak
at a homeschooling conferenceKevin Swanson's homeschool
conference in a few weeks inJune but primarily my speaking
is doing marriage conferences atchurches and event centers
throughout the nation, and sothat's really my passion.
(15:27):
I've delivered a lot of thesemessages I don't know how many
times lots, and I still enjoy itas much because I'm very
passionate about this area.
So if you ask me to talk aboutmarriage, you'll probably have
to stop me.
I'll just go on and on.
But the big thing I see, nick,is I see, very sadly, even in
the church, people being shapedby the culture versus being
shaped by God's word, and I seepastors shrinking away from
(15:48):
telling people what scripturesays, and I'll give you one
example that I hope might be anencouragement.
So I'm pastoring a prettyconservative church that has a
heart to hear God's wordpreached boldly, so it's not
like a challenging environment.
You know, I don't like get upto talk about wives submitting
to their husbands and wonder ifpeople are going to throw
tomatoes at me or something likethat.
Well, I was invited to speak atthis marriage conference that a
(16:11):
radio station was putting onand I didn't know any of the
other speakers.
So they bring the, they bringthe keynote speakers together
for a planning session and we'regoing around the room and one
speaker says I'm going to talkabout husbands loving their
wives.
The next speaker, which is ahusband and wife team, they said
we're going to talk aboutcommunication and I thought,
well, you know, there's amessage for husbands, let's have
(16:31):
a message for wives.
I said I'll talk about wivessubmitting to their husbands,
and it's just like the wholeroom just goes silent, you know,
everyone's heads go down andit's like, you know, did he just
say?
Did he just say he's going totalk about wives submitting to
their husbands, and so that kindof cause.
I'm sort of used to my niceconservative, biblical
environment, you know, preachingthe word, and if people want me
to go to a marriage conferenceat their church, they they
(16:52):
probably know what they're goingto get, that I'm going to talk
about marriage very biblically,and this was clearly a more
liberal environment than I'mused to.
And I'm getting to a point withthis.
So I asked them, I said, wouldyou guys just trust me to handle
this topic delicately?
And this one guy, he pipes upfinally after someone speaks and
(17:13):
goes.
You know well, I don't reallylike to use the word submission.
I use the word defer and I'mlike you know, the Bible uses
the word submission.
It's repeated.
It's not like it's not a vagueshadowy.
You know, it's like wivessubmit.
That occurs four or five times.
Titus 2, older women teachyounger women to obey their
husbands at this conference.
(17:34):
And this is what wasfascinating, nick.
I don't think I'm the bestpreacher or something like that,
but my message got goodfeedback because I think God's
people desire truth and it'srefreshing for them when it's
preached clearly.
And so there's people listening,even women, and their spirit.
Their flesh might resist it,but their spirit yearns to hear
God's word.
And I don't mean preaching itauthoritatively or abusively or
(17:58):
something, I'm just sayingpresenting the plain teaching of
scripture.
And when I did that I think itwas kind of like, wow, you know
someone that's just going totell us what the word says and
they're not going to sugarcoatit and, you know, try to massage
it and remove all thepointedness and just present it
as it is in there and talk aboutwhat it means and doesn't mean
for wives to submit.
Present it as it is in thereand talk about what it means and
doesn't mean for wives tosubmit.
(18:19):
And so my point is, in answerto your question, I just see
this very strong aversion tobeing clear with people about
what Scripture says.
And that leaves, you know, wedon't want to talk about
husbands leading in the home, wedon't want to talk about
husbands being the head of therelationship or the spiritual
leader, you know, because that'sgoing to seem, that might seem
a little chauvinistic or or evenbarbaric.
And but one of the one of theinteresting things, nick, that
(18:40):
I'll share with your listenersis what I've noticed as I talk
about marriage is becausesubmission is almost viewed as
this sort of like taboo thing.
You would expect women just tobe coming up complaining saying
I can't believe that God's wordcommands wives to submit to
their husbands, but I've neveronce heard a woman say that.
Do you know the biggest?
Can you guess the biggestcomplaint that I do hear from
women frequently?
(19:01):
I wish my husband would lead.
My husband is not a spiritualleader.
I wish he would pray with me.
I wish he would read the wordwith me.
So I don't hear wivescomplaining about having to
submit to their husbandsalthough I'm not saying it comes
easy for wives.
I hear wives complaining thattheir husbands are not spiritual
men or spiritual leaders in thehome.
I think a lot of women want torespect their husband.
They want a man to look up to.
(19:22):
They want a man to lead up to.
They want a man to lead.
God's just built women that wayand he's built men to lead.
It might come a little easierfor some men to lead than others
, but God does want us to beleaders in our homes and I feel
like if you have a strongspiritual man, this is one of
the other things, nick, I feellike maybe, as churches are kind
of feminized a bit, men arediscouraged from leading in
(19:45):
their homes because they don'tsee men leading in the church,
and so it's a disconnect.
If a church is being led bywomen and I'm definitely not
saying women don't have placesin churches or places leading
women or leading children orserving in different ministries
women can be great assets in thechurch and different positions
and roles, positions and roles.
But when a church is primarilyled by women, the men in that
(20:07):
church not only do they notserve or grow, but they also
don't see the need to be leadersin their homes, and so I think
that's a big problem the absenceof male leadership in the
marriage, because generally mostwives, if a husband says let's
pray or read the Word, you'regoing to have a wife who's
thrilled about that right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So let me ask the question.
You made an interesting pointon churches being feminized.
That happens not because thewomen are stronger in leadership
, but because the men aren'tstepping up to lead and so that
becomes kind of a naturalselection within churches that
they become that way.
So how do we get from a placeor how do we get men to step up
(20:49):
and be leaders both in theirmarriage but also in the church?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, I appreciate what you're saying, nick.
There's kind of that vacuum.
Then if men are not stepping upin that role, then women
inevitably kind of fill in andwomen off sometimes have more
time.
Let's say, a guy's working 40,50 hours a week and his wife is
staying home or taking care ofkids, she might have more time
or more flexibility to beinvolved with the church and so
(21:13):
she sort of naturally takes onthose different leadership roles
and so really it's kind of solascriptura we need to go back to
God's word, see what it saysand hold to that versus
tradition and versus culture.
And really if men will preachthese truths, I believe that
they're well-received.
(21:33):
I think there's a sphere like,if I say this and I'm going to
lose my church or I'm going toupset all these people, there
might be a few people that areupset, but for most people they
know this is what God's wordsays.
It's not like a hidden truthand that people are going to act
like they've never heard thatbefore.
And so when men begin to lead,I do think it is genuinely
received well by the church, andI think there's a lot of women
(21:55):
that are waiting, wishing theirhusbands would be more spiritual
in the home and even in thechurch too.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I would say that that is probably a common counseling
question that I get from womenis hey, how can I get my husband
to lead?
Sometimes it's how can I get myhusband to come to church?
But even with the guys thatcome to church, how can I get
them to lead?
I want them to and we don't sitand talk about that submission
idea in that moment.
But in that moment they'redesiring for their husband to be
(22:26):
who god's called them to be.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
but culturally we've stepped away from that for some
reason within the church cultureyeah, well said and I'll share
something brother you met, youmade a good point there or
you're kind of.
You're kind of looking tosomething that I think some
women are not totally aware of,and I've noticed this from
marriage conferences andquestions that I've received.
So let's just say for a momentthat we tend to project
(22:50):
ourselves on others.
So you and I I mean knowingthat they look at me and they
think they can't do what I doRight, and I'm amazed.
I'm like how can you build yourown house?
(23:11):
How do you know how to work onyour car?
I just those aren't skills Ihave.
And they look at me and they'relike how do you get up front?
But because that comes easier tome than building a house I
assume that's easy, for Nick isa lot of men want to be
spiritual leaders, but firstthey don't know what it means or
what it looks like.
They're like where do I begin?
And second, there's a fearabout it.
And so this gentleman this isthe first time I noticed this A
(23:34):
guy comes up to me at a marriageconference.
He talks to me privately Icould tell that it was a
sensitive subject just from hisdemeanor and he says you know
I'm listening to you.
I want to be a spiritual leaderin my home, but what does that
look like?
How do I do that?
You know, how do I read theword of my family?
And I was like, wow, that'sinteresting.
Okay, you know, go ahead andchoose a book of the Bible that
you enjoy and that you'refamiliar with, and start at
(23:54):
chapter one, verse one, and kindof read a verse and see if your
family wants to share anythoughts.
But just telling him somethingthat simply and that basic gave
him the knowledge he needed tobe able to go home and read the
word of this family.
The other thing is, I found thatmen have a lot of fear, and
this is where women come in tothis, nick.
(24:15):
Women are not aware of thegreat influence they have on
their husbands.
And I'll give you an example.
There's a gentleman, a greatguy, in my church.
I'm counseling them and hiswife really wants him to read
the word with her.
I don't want to look like I'mcorrecting him in front of her,
so I talked to him privately andI'm like hey brother, you know,
your wife wants you to read theword with her.
I really think if you do that,it's going to be a big blessing,
help your marriage.
They come back like a week ortwo later and he, he says to me
(24:37):
I'm never going to read the wordwith my wife again and I'm like
what?
This is like the opposite ofwhat I expect.
So he says everything I said.
She questioned, she disagreedwith every interpretation I had
of every verse.
She told me I'm mispronouncingeverything, I need to go talk to
the pastor at church and hebasically said it was
humiliating.
And so that's what I mean.
So if a wife, my wife, she doesladies conferences at our
(25:06):
church and she asked me a coupleyears ago to come speak at the
women's conference, which I saidI can do that, and I think the
women are kind of like what'sthe pastor Scott doing here
talking at speaking at thewomen's conference?
So I shared with this group ofwomen the influence they have on
their husbands and how afraidtheir husbands might be to read
the word or pray with theirfamily.
You know, what if I don't knowwhat to say?
What if I fumble my prayer?
What if I can't answer thisquestion about this verse?
What if you know?
And these women are like, wow,you know, I never thought that I
(25:27):
never thought of that beforeand I said ladies, if you want
to make a withdrawal when yourhusband's teaching the Bible or
reading the Bible with you, youcan do that, but you need to
make sure you've made a bunchmore deposits than that.
You know, don't compare yourhusband with someone.
Don't tell him.
Don't tell him he doesn't thisat every marriage conference.
I don't care how badly yourhusband does when he teaches the
(25:48):
Bible or reads the Bible withhis family.
You look at him and thank himfor being a godly man.
You know, put your hand on hisleg, look him in the eyes and
say, hey, I know that there'sonly like 0.001% of the
population of women who actuallyhas a husband who reads the
word with her.
So I'm so thankful for you, youknow.
Give your husband thatencouragement.
He needs to want to keep doingthat, because I think a lot of
women are.
(26:08):
Naturally they might be kind ofcritical, like you know.
Why are you choosing thoseverses?
I don't think the kids aregoing to understand this.
Do we have to do this Biblestudy right now?
I'm not sure that's correctwhat you're saying.
Those are the sorts of thingsthat really defeat men and hurt
their burden to be leaders inthe home.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, and I want to say something real quick,
because every story you'retelling I can think of a couple
I've talked to with those samestories.
The husbands felt humiliated asthe wife knew more scripture
than he did.
But the wife really wanted theBible study with her husband but
it just didn't go how they bothimagined it going, which made
the husband shrink back, thewife get mad that he didn't want
(26:52):
to do it anymore and thisperpetual cycle happens right,
and the guy just doesn't knowwhat to do and the wife's
frustrated.
But it does come back to whatwe talked a little bit about
earlier, about the struggleswith men in leadership within
the church.
We have about 100 guys in men'sBible studies throughout the
week and I think, man, that is agreat place to start right.
(27:14):
Like just get in with otherguys and talk scripture.
You made the comment that mostpeople don't think they could
talk on stage like we do and youknow we hear that a lot, that's
a fear of people jumping onstage.
But to your point, like know wehear that a lot, that's a fear
of people jumping on stage.
But to your point, like Icouldn't build a house, I
couldn't do a lot of things.
My church knows I'm not handyat all, but the heart's there
(27:39):
right, and so, even with thethings I'm not handy at, we've
got a shelf that fell at thehouse recently and I've put off
trying to fix it because I knowI'm not going to do it right.
But my wife and I were talkingabout this morning.
We just got to try, right.
We just got to put it back upIf it doesn't go.
Well, I know people, but wehave to start somewhere.
So I had a lot of topics Iwanted to cover with you today.
We may jump to some other ones,another podcast, but let's kind
(28:01):
of wrap up this marriage talk,if you will.
If you had the opportunity tosit across from someone that's
listening to this podcast todayand their marriage is hard right
, whether it's the wife or thehusband, whether it's the
biblical side or just a toughseason of marriage, what would
be without knowing specifics oftheir life?
What would be your advice tothem?
(28:21):
As a starting point?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I think that's great, Nick, and definitely, as
you know, by the time peoplecome to talk to you about their
marriage problems, they shouldhave come to talk to you like
six months earlier or yearsearlier.
So they're not coming with likea little issue, they're coming
where it's like they're not.
These people aren't, you know,talking anymore.
They're like more likeroommates or business partners,
(28:45):
and so you almost wonder whereto begin.
And so I feel this verystrongly, nick.
I feel like our marriages arereflections of our relationship
with Christ, and so what I meanby that is we generally treat
our spouse the way we do becauseof our relationship with Christ
.
And so to help people grow,let's say, vertically, is to
help them grow horizontally.
And so picture this scenariolet's say a couple comes in and
(29:07):
they're all upset with eachother and I say something like
tell me what your devotionaltime looks like.
You know, I know them, they'reprobably in my church and I know
that maybe out of the last fewmonths, they go to church about
half the time, two Sundays outof four, right, so I see Christ
as not a priority to them.
So I say to them, so I say tothem what does your prayer life.
Look like, what is your time inthe word look like.
And the guy's like why are youasking me that?
(29:28):
I just told you how my wifedisrespects me?
Or the woman says why are youtalking to me about my time in
the word when I just told you myhusband's screaming at me or
getting drunk or something?
Were you not listening?
And I'll say I was listening.
But I'm telling you that ifyou'll improve the relationship
with Christ generally, thesehorizontal issues have a way of
working themselves out, and sothat's why I'm not trying to be
(29:51):
a referee.
I used to be, I think, a badmarriage counselor because I'm
going to referee and helpeveryone figure out who's right
and who's wrong, which doesnothing to improve the
relationship.
And so I'm trying to get peopleto strengthen their
relationship with the Lord and Ireally believe that as their
relationship with the Lordstrengthens, then their marriage
strengthens or the relationship.
Every horizontal relationshipis improved through a stronger
(30:13):
relationship with Christ.
So I'm generally talking topeople like hey, let's start.
You know, reading the wordhere's.
I give people homework.
You know, this week I'd likeyou to read Ephesians 5, the
marriage passage, every singleevening together and every
morning together, or then firstPeter three or I'd like you to
make sure you pray togetherevery morning and every evening.
You know, husband, it's on youto make sure that the couple
(30:33):
does that.
And so once so you know whatthey really want when they come
in and you know this is, theyjust want that that referee to
just say who's right and who'swrong, and that that always kind
of that doesn't, doesn't helpthings.
And so to point them back toChrist and get them practicing
those spiritual disciplines.
I think marriages inevitably doimprove when people will commit
(30:53):
to doing that.
So if you're listening to thisand your marriage is struggling,
then I would say you know,spend the time in God's word.
Try to spend some time in God'sword with your spouse.
If your wife, you know, don'texpect a John MacArthur sermon
or Billy Graham crusade fromyour husband.
He's working all week.
Just be happy that he's readingwith you verse by verse, that,
because the power is in God'sword to go out and wash over and
(31:15):
sanctify.
I mean Ephesians 5.25 saysGod's word sanctifies and
cleanses.
It's not in the husband'soratory ability, you know.
It's not like if he's winsomeand charismatic, then the
sanctification is going to begreater.
The word is what's sanctifying.
So as long as the husband isreading it and it's washing over
the family, it's going to behaving that sanctifying effect
and improving the relationship.
So that's what I do.
(31:35):
I generally point people backto Christ and back to the word
to see those spiritualdisciplines improve.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I mean, that's the foundational right.
Like their foundation isn'tright?
They're focusing on all thewrong things, and the right
things they don't even take timefor and you're right, I mean,
by the time they get to us,we're firefighters trying to put
out a massive blaze that wewould wish we could have seen
when it started.
So let me ask you this wewanted to talk a little bit
(32:02):
about biblical finances andtrials today, but maybe we'll
come back and do that anotherday.
We wanted to talk a little bitabout biblical finances and
trials today, but maybe we'llcome back and do that another
day.
If people want to connect withyou, if they want to hear more
of your story or pick up yourbooks, how can they connect with
you?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, so my website, scottloffierorg and you'll
probably put the link to it inthe show notes is the hub you
know.
Everything kind of goes outfrom there.
You can find my sermons, mybooks, my speaking engagements,
my YouTube channel, or prettymuch.
Just going to my website allowsyou to find and you can contact
me through it if you have anyquestions.
And then the other thing is Igot a free gift for your
(32:34):
listeners.
It's called Seven BiblicalInsights for Marriage and it's a
short read it's not a full bookand you can go to my website.
You can download that for freeand I hope that would be a
blessing to your listeners.
And so, yeah, that's the placeto find me.
So thanks for having me on theshow, nick.
I appreciate what you're doingand your ministry and just
connecting with another pastorand brother in Christ like this.
So thanks for your heart forpeople to be growing in their
(32:56):
relationships with the Lord.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Nick, now, I was thrilled that you could make the
time today, and it's alwaysgreat to connect with another
pastor that's preaching verse byverse, because that is less
common in today's world.
I another pastor that'spreaching verse by verse,
because that is less common intoday's world.
I kind of do a mixture of thetwo, but we're 36 weeks in
Romans right now, walkingthrough the whole book this year
, so I can appreciate that forsure.
And it's going on.
Hey, podcast listeners, if youwant to know more about Scott,
(33:21):
please jump on his website.
Download that short book thathe's got.
Dive into your marriage.
Make it a priority.
Make sure your relationshipwith God is foundational.
If you're struggling, let thatbe the first place that you go.
I hope you have an incredibleweek and we will talk to you
again next week.
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