March 31, 2025 • 35 mins
Pastor Joe Davis joins us for a special conversation about our parallel journeys preaching through the book of Romans to our congregations. We explore why this profound theological letter can be intimidating yet transformative for both pastors and churches alike.
• Pastor Joe's long-standing connection to South Shore Church dating back to 2008
• Why many pastors avoid preaching Romans despite its theological importance
• How the challenging passages in Romans 1 require careful, balanced teaching
• The surprising enthusiasm congregations have shown for deep biblical teaching
• Romans' unique ability to define grace in a way that cannot be manipulated or cheapened
• The importance of looking for the "but now" moments of grace throughout the book
• Why preaching verse-by-verse through biblical books eliminates the pressure to be artificially relevant
• The challenge of helping people engage with Romans throughout the week, not just on Sundays
• Looking forward to Romans 8 and other powerful passages that transform our understanding of grace
Find Pastor Joe's books on Amazon under Joseph Davis and connect with Grace Life Sarasota online.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey podcasters, welcome back to another episode
of Beyond Sunday special episode.
Today I have a guest with meand you guys are going to be
excited to meet him.
Some of you guys know him ifyou've been at South Shore for a
while.
He's preached here before.
I've been a friend of SouthShore for a long time, a friend
of mine.
He's a pastor in town, anauthor, an entrepreneur, a
rescuer of people.
Honestly, I think he has one ofthe most unique churches in
(00:22):
Sarasota and I say that becauseI don't think most churches are
unique.
I think most churches are justlike other churches, mine
included, but what he does isjust different.
Maybe we'll touch on that alittle bit today.
But, joe Pastor, joe Davis,welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Man, we've been talking about doing this for a
while.
I'm excited to finally getrolling on it.
Man, it's been awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, it actually came, because I was talking to
Dustin Myers.
You know, Dustin?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
the one who likes me.
He likes me better than you.
He does like you better than me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I don't even think he listens to my podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You're here, he'll listen, dustin.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was telling Dustin that you were doing Romans, I
was doing Romans and he's likeyou guys should do a podcast
together and I thought that'sactually a really good idea.
It's a great idea, and we'vebeen talking about it forever,
haven't been able to pull it off.
So before we jump into the ideabehind the podcast and talking
about Romans today, for thosethat don't know, you, take a
moment to introduce yourself.
Tell us a little about yourchurch and what's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, we started Grace Life in 2016, but my
relationship with South Shoregoes back to 2008.
I just moved back to Sarasotaafter we had lost our daughter,
sarah, and Brian Yost was thepastor at South Shore and God
really used Brian to shepherd meback to health spiritually, to
get me back into ministry.
I'd started the NightlifeCenter, which was an outreach to
teens.
I think you would come to theallies meeting there a few times
(01:42):
where I had the youth pastorscome in.
But South Shore was my churchand Brian was my pastor.
I still call him my pastortoday and so I'm very close to a
lot of people in your churchwho are kind of like that core
South Shore group.
And so South Shore has justalways had a very special place
in my heart and Laura's heartand my son Ben, because at a
(02:03):
time in our life when we neededit the most, this was the body
of believers that God used toheal us and to get us back into
ministry.
So I have great affection forSouth Shore and I have great
affection for you.
I think we met when we wereboth kind of doing some youth
ministry in town and I was soproud of you when you went
through a difficult time.
In a prior ministry.
You took a stand for the gospelthat I was just man.
(02:26):
This guy Nick, he's awesome andI just we just became.
We were friends before, butthen we became closer and then,
when you started here and it'sjust been I have tremendous
respect for you.
You're a brilliant guy, greatcommunicator, you're a great
shepherd for your people and Godhas really blessed your
ministry here in this campus atSouth Shore and I'm just amazed
by how God has used you.
I'm a little jealous sometimesof all the things you're able to
(02:48):
do that I can't as far as yourtalents and skills, but we have
a really cool relationship and Iknow that you have been a
tremendous blessing.
You've spoken at our church afew times too for some of our
recovery ministries.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, and I didn't even pay him to say any of that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So well done, joe.
No, I love, I love the peopleat South Shore and they love me.
And you know, because we justgo back a long ways and it's
just a great place.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, and I've spoken at your recovery ministries.
You speak at ours on Sundaynight, so that's been a huge
thing.
And you've spoke here at thechurch before.
It's been a while, but you'vespoken here and our churches are
different in some ways.
I kind of alluded to that inthe beginning, but we've always
supported each other over theyears.
And what do you think thatpartnership means?
Because I don't know that allchurches partner.
(03:32):
It's a little bafflingsometimes that how many churches
don't communicate and talk.
But even especially, probablythrough this Roman series.
I mean you and I have had acouple of phone calls talking
through the gospel, talkingthrough Romans, talking through
some hard passages.
What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
First of all, it's very humbling to have a friend
like you who is such anencouragement to me.
You buy my books, you postpictures of them.
It's awesome stuff.
But it's meant a lot to me toget to know you better and to
know that we have thislike-mindedness.
And I will tell you that one ofthe things I love about you is
you have one of the similarpassions that we have at Grace.
(04:09):
Life is you're preachingthrough books of the Bible and
most churches are afraid to dothat because there are hard
passages that are going to bedifficult to challenge, but you
can't shy away from them and Ireally appreciate the fact that
we had that like-mindedness.
You know it helps me bounceideas off of you, but it's been
(04:30):
a lot to our church and it'sbeen a lot to me personally.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I didn't always preach that way, and one of the
reasons I didn't is I didn'tthink people wanted it.
Oh really yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So when did that?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
change for you.
I thought, man, church growthright You're trying to reach
more people and be successful,yeah.
I just felt like man, that'swhat they want to hear.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Another series on family or whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, and then I realized people don't know what
they want to hear and in oursociety they're getting so much
of that the topical, the how doyou do it that they need the
word of God.
And so it really.
It became a conviction of mine,probably about two years ago,
that I realized, man, I need todig in with our church more, and
first series we did was thegospel of John, and I wasn't
(05:15):
sure how it would go and peopleloved it, like I.
I was shocked at how many peopleloved it and we'll talk about
this in a moment but I've beenshocked about how many people
have loved Romans Me too.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Me too, you know, because I feel like a lot of
times, nick, people have startedto treat the Bible and passages
in the Bible like memes, andit's just heartbreaking when I
see somebody take a picture of aBible page and then they'll
outline something or circle itand try to apply it to a
politician or a cultural event,I just my heart sinks because
there's so much more like no, no, you got to take a picture of
(05:50):
the seven pages before that youknow.
Yeah, the word of God is souniquely powerful and connected,
and I'm thankful that you arepreaching the Bible that way.
It's an encouragement.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So let's talk about this.
This is our topic for the daywhere we're diving in.
Why, romans?
What led you to choose the bookof Romans for preaching this
year?
And I've been talking aboutthis for probably a year.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, at least yeah.
So first of all, fulldisclosure.
I've known that I was going tohave to preach Romans at some
point for a long time, and I'vebeen putting it off.
I remember a phone call you toldme that I've been putting it
off because I said, you know, atsome point I'm going to have to
do Romans.
I was afraid to preach Romansfor a couple of reasons.
(06:32):
First of all, I'm Reformed inmy theology and the idea is, if
you're a Reformed theologian,you got to take Romans for three
years because there's so muchin there.
So I was afraid of that.
Right, I was afraid that Iwould have 52 weeks in Romans.
People aren't going to, oh mygoodness.
But the other thing is there'ssome difficult passages and
there are people in our church,as you said, we have a very
(06:53):
unique church.
It's very diverse people inbackgrounds and ethnicity and
all that kind of stuff.
And I knew it was going to be achallenging thing, but I
finally came to the point whereI realized and I knew it was
going to be a challenging thing,but I finally came to the point
where I realized, you know what?
Our church was healthy, it wasgrowing and I felt, you know,
this is the best time right now.
There's not going to be abetter time right now.
(07:15):
We're on the verge of God doingsome incredible things.
And I really do think, nick,when it comes to the book of
Romans, whether or not youpreach it or not, or how you
preach it, defines what youreally are as a church, because
most churches are going to stayaway from it.
Well, you know, it's just.
It reads like a legal brief.
You know, it's the greatesttheological treatise in the
(07:37):
history of man and he didn'twrite it with any type of search
engines.
It's incredible, right, it's amiraculous thing.
And I think the fact that youdo preach Romans and how you
preach it defines what you areas a church.
And I wanted to make sure.
I felt like we'd alreadydefined ourselves, but I wanted
to throw down the marker.
You know, this is who we are,and I was thinking about it.
(07:57):
Then, when you told me you weredoing it, I said oh well, then
I'm doing it.
You kind of pushed me over that.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I remember that phone call because you said, man, you
kind of cautioned me Like areyou sure you want to do that,
Because once you dive in, you'rediving in.
And then you and I startedtalking about doing this thing
together.
Right, Like that was the plan.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
By the way, I have a little bit of a beef, I have a
little bit of bitterness thatI'm holding onto towards you,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So when we talked about this and I said, yeah, I
think I'm going to start it likethe second week in January, you
said, yeah, we'll probably doit early February.
I said, great, you'll only belike three weeks, you know, and
I work ahead of time so we cancollaborate.
Three months later, you finallyget started.
It's like you pushed me outthere on this Roman's cliff.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I said good luck.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And then I turned around and you were gone.
I'm just kidding on, I'm justkidding Anyway it's been great.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, our series started later than originally
planned, but it's been good.
So, romans what themes ortruths in Romans feel especially
urgent maybe, or even relevant,either for your church right
now, or just culture right now?
What is it that excites youabout or scares you even?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I think the best thing about Romans for our
church and for the culture isRomans gives you a definition of
grace that cannot bemanipulated or filtered or
cheapened.
It defines grace as somethingthat is powerful.
(09:25):
It defines grace.
Grace comes before faith, gracecomes before mercy Grace comes
all of those things are part ofgrace.
So Paul does a great job oftaking this definition of grace
and saying look, everythingabout our relationship with God
is undeserved favor, this gracething and I think that's one of
(09:47):
the things that's so powerfulabout Romans that our culture
needs to understand what grace,from a theological perspective,
really is.
And that's what it's beenpowerful for me to see.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So we've alluded to this multiple times that Romans
isn't always easy to preach andit's not easy to hear.
What makes Romans a hard bookfor modern audiences?
Why do you and I, why do we,have pauses to preaching Romans,
the weight of it and knowingthe messages?
(10:17):
You and I had a conversationearly on in January.
One of the things I love aboutyou and your preaching style is
you and I hope this is okay toshare like you, have people that
test your messages, if you will, that read what you write, not
after you preach it, beforeBefore you preach it Absolutely
Making sure that you haven'thumanized the gospel, that you
(10:39):
haven't put your own spin on it,that it is true to the text,
and I love that about you.
I wish my messages were done intime to do that.
I'm just trying to get readyfor a Sunday here, but we do
that especially in this Romans,because there are some hard
(10:59):
passages.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So what makes it so hard?
You know, especially in thisculture, this culture that's
fighting over wokeness and whatis relevant and what is not
relevant.
And you know, is moralityreally subjective or objective?
Man, there is no delineationabout what is right and wrong in
the way Paul writes.
He writes just in this bold waythat, like, could you imagine
(11:21):
if Paul wrote Romans today?
Like he would be canceled?
Yeah, he'd be canceled.
So one of the things that makesme nervous are those hard
passages.
He talks about sexual purityand idolatry and all these
things.
But I feel like the other partof it is there are people on the
other side who are like ultraconservative, who have turned
(11:44):
romans into something to beatpeople up with.
Yeah, so you have this.
Like there's romans isn'trelevant for today and other
people.
Well, you better listen to this, because Romans is talking
about you.
No, it's talking about all ofus, and so I hope that answers
your question.
But to me, the hard passagesare because he doesn't really
(12:04):
leave any room for error when itcomes to interpreting.
Well, what does Paul mean inthe Greek?
Well, it means the same thingin the English translation,
right?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, it's interesting, because I do think
people weaponize Romans.
Oh, so much.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I have.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I've weaponized it in my past and it's hard because
there's the just to get specific, there's the passage in Romans
1 that talks about homosexualityand you and I both have people
in our churches that have chosenthat lifestyle and you don't
want to hurt people but you wantto speak the truth to them.
But the problem with thatpassage is it doesn't only speak
(12:42):
about homosexuality.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Though you and I were talking about this the other
day.
So he lists all these sins,right, yeah, and one of them in
there is disobedience to parents.
And so when I was preaching thesecond half of Romans 1, I said
have you guys noticed thatdisobedience to parents is in
there?
Well, no, because you guys arenoticing the sexual part of this
.
What about the lying, and whatabout the gossiping and the
slander, and what aboutdisobedience to parents?
(13:05):
It's in there twice.
And so you're right, that was ahard one.
That was a hard one.
I think I called you, yeah,because I added you to my list
of sermon coaches and I saidNick, am I soft peddling this,
yeah, or am I presenting in away that's going to edify the
body of Christ and not just looklike I'm targeting one person,
yeah, or two people, or 10people?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That's the line we walk with everything we preach,
right?
Are we soft pedaling this tomake people feel comfortable,
yeah?
Or are we targeting one groupbecause of one word or one
passage?
Or we speak into the wholecrowd, because Romans speaks to
the whole crowd, right, all ofus, 100%.
It speaks to every one of us.
Nobody escapes, nobody's safein.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Romans and the opening of Romans, unless
they're in grace, unless they'rein grace, then they're safe.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
The opening of Romans is just a court case against
humanity, Like he's just writing.
This list, laundry list of thisis why you need Jesus.
You're all sinners, and if youdon't think you are, let me list
out some things that are wrongwith you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
This is why grace is so essential.
That's what he's telling us,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So how do you prepare your heart, but also the heart
of your people, to hear thesehard passages, to hear the
tougher more convicting parts ofRomans.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So, to let people get into the pull back the curtain
on us pastors.
And when we're writing, right,there's always the situation
where we're writing a sermon andwe think, oh this person, I
hope they're there, right, right, you've done that, right?
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Yeah, of course not.
Of course you don't.
But when it came to Romans, Ihaven't been able to do that,
because every time my mindstarted thinking, oh, this
person.
Then I realized, oh, no, I needto hear this.
(14:44):
And when I'm writing and I'musually working about two and a
half weeks ahead of time, soI've had a chance to really
ruminate on it and think aboutit and I got to tell you by the
time I've preached it or I'mready, I get up to preach it.
It's been kicking my butt yeah,excuse me for three weeks.
And so the way I prepare myheart is, when I'm reading this
(15:07):
and I'm writing it and I'mstudying it and I'm researching,
I'm always asking myself okay,how would I want to hear this?
Or how would I hear this if?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I were being preached to and that's how I go through
with Romans.
No, that's good.
Yeah, that's good.
I mean similar.
I preached through the 23rdPsalm, man, probably a year and
a half ago, and it was the mostconvicting message for me that
I've ever preached.
It was a 12 week series, justtaking it apart, and it was the
most convicting message for methat I've ever preached.
It was a 12-week series, justtaking it apart.
And it was one of those that Ifell in love with Jesus.
More right, you preached Psalm23 for 12 weeks.
(15:40):
12 weeks, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, it wasn't me amazing, but it was amazing for
me.
Awesome, just diving into itand realizing man how good God
is, and it was good for me.
So, into it and realizing manhow good God is, and it was good
for me.
So let me ask you this Lookingat your church, looking at the
hearts of your people, what doyou hope this series will
accomplish?
You're doing 36 weeks roughly.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
No, I think it's going to be 24.
24, okay, I'm averaging abouttwo, so let me just clarify what
that means.
Yeah, I've decided to preachRomans, different than any other
reformed pastor, probably everhas.
Because you're not doing threeyears.
No, I decided.
You know what, when Paul wroteRomans, there were no massive
commentaries on it for hispeople.
(16:27):
It was read out loud incommunity in big chunks, and so
he wanted he was, he designed itto be heard and processed real
time, without a thesaurus,without a concordance and
without looking at what JohnGill's expository commentary
wrote on it.
So I've been preaching it andI've been telling my people I
(16:49):
want you to hear this as if youare a Jew because we have Jews
in our church or a Gentile infirst century Rome hearing it
read out loud without your ownscroll, for the first time.
So I've been doing about twosermons per chapter in bigger
chunks and, instead of trying todive into every word, trying to
look at the big picture andwhat I've been hoping it will
(17:12):
accomplish.
Honestly, Nick, I believe atthe end of Romans and this will
be true for your church as wellour congregations will be
incredibly theologicallyrelevant and theologically in
tune with God's word more thanthey ever have been, Because if
you can understand Romans, boy,the rest of it starts to come
(17:32):
into place, Would you agree?
So I think our churches, ourcongregations, are going to be
so fluent theologically at theend of this.
I'm so excited about that.
I really am.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
One of the things I love the picture of Romans for
me, for Paul, is he's in Gaius'house, his scribe is writing
this stuff down and I can almostsee Paul, just so excited,
pacing the room.
And that's why we have theselong run-on sentences.
That's why he's because he'snot writing like an author.
(18:04):
That's right.
He is just speaking out hisheart for God and what does it
speak to his brilliance?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Oh yeah, oh incredible, like he might be one
of the smartest people inchurch history, if not the
smartest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So you've been in this how many weeks?
So far, I've done 12 weeks, 12weeks.
Yes, I am behind.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, way.
Yes, we are aware you are 12weeks in.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What has the response from the early part of this
series been for you, from yourchurch?
Have you seen any fruit?
Is there excitement about this?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Man, I have been stunned by how God has used it.
I knew that people would likeit, but I didn't think people
would love it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I feel the same way.
I can't like, and I've hadpeople that I didn't expect,
like after preaching that secondhalf of chapter one okay, that
(19:03):
passage and if you guys arelistening to the podcast, don't
know why I'm mentioning it.
Go read second half of chapterone and you can see why us
pastors might be full of anxiety.
I had people I didn't expectcome up to me in tears saying
Pastor Joe, that was great, Ireally loved that.
Thank you so much for justpreaching that the way you did.
And I was like wow.
(19:24):
And so once I got past firstthe second half of chapter one,
I thought I won't have to preachthat again for 30 years.
I was relieved.
But you know, it's just beenwonderful.
It's been wonderful to seeGod's people and that just
speaks to the spirit of Godright and the power of his word.
It's not because the way I'mpreaching it or the way you're
(19:44):
preaching it, it's the spirit ofGod saying I love using my word
.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's interesting.
I talked to a retired pastorearlier this week that said in
his ministry he never preachedthrough Romans and he said he
wasn't scared of it.
He just really didn't know howto not offend everybody in his
church and preach it.
And that doesn't mean he didn'tpreach parts of Romans or
pieces of it, but he just neversat down and did the whole thing
(20:10):
because he was scared of it.
And I do think that that'sprobably common that pastors are
scared of.
If I preach this, half mychurch is leaving.
Oh yeah, if I tell them thehard truth of the gospel,
they're going to go.
And what am I going to do?
Yes, and that's sad, but Iunderstand it.
Right, crazy.
(20:31):
Having that conversation withthat guy the other day really
just rocked my mind a little bit, because he's a guy I have a
lot of respect for.
But I also felt his heartsaying I wanted to.
I just didn't know how to do it, Nick.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Okay, I'm not trying to overplay it, but it's
probably one of the mostimportant decisions we've made
as pastors.
Yeah, I don't disagree Is topreach through Romans Would you
agree with that?
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So let me throw this on you for a moment.
How has preaching throughRomans impacted you, either
spiritually, emotionally or evenin your leadership?
How has that affected you overthe last 12 weeks, or even
longer, since you prepare?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
So, obviously, because of the way we've always
preached at Grace Life, it'salways been chapter by chapter,
verse by verse, book by book.
So I've always had confidencein God's word.
But in preaching the Romans,for me it's just been, you know
what.
I'll never want to preachanother way, and it's just given
me even more confidence thatGod uses his word.
It's such an amazing, this wordof God.
(21:29):
The guys from the Bible Projectdo a great job talking about
hyperlinks all through scripture, and when you stop and really
start looking at them, it'spretty fascinating.
It's an amazing and it's just.
It's so comforting to know thatit's never going to wear me out
.
Or I'm never going to wear itout.
You know it'll wear me out, butI'm never going to wear it out.
So that's what I would say yeah, yeah, I would think that's
(21:51):
spot on.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I think when you get to this season of preaching
books of the Bible and there area lot of young pastors that
still stay away from it forreasons I've talked about it's
easier.
God's already done all the work.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, I don't have to try to be relevant.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
No, because God's word is relevant All the time.
Yes, so what has surprised youor challenged you the most so
far?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
in Romans.
So my sermon coaches they havenot liked the fact that I have
not gone into more detail.
They think, no, you should slowdown, you should do like five
sermons in this chapter.
And I've held true to myoriginal idea, which is no, I
want my people to hear the wayit was heard in the first
century.
(22:36):
That's the historical relevantcontext, and so that's been one
of the things.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, which honestly leaves you for 30 years down the
road to come back.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I'm not coming back.
I'm going to Psalms for alittle while, probably after
this.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I hear you So-.
Let's take Sunday morning.
We pour out the word of GodLike that's our heart.
That's what we spend so muchtime and energy during the week
on.
How are you helping your peopleengage with Romans outside of
Sundays?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
We started a grace group we call them grace groups
or some people call them lifegroups or small groups that I'm
leading and it's just questionand answer Anything you want to
ask me about what I've beenpreaching.
Oh well, and we go into detailon some of these topics and some
of these ideas and it's justbeen tremendous and I've also
invited people.
If you have questions, messageme or email me.
(23:31):
So we've gotten a lot ofdynamic flow back and forth on
that.
I have had more requests for apastor Joe, can we get together
for dinner to discuss this thanI have in any other sermon
series.
So I've been going, takingpeople out to dinner, been
talking about Romans and gracegroups and I've never done a
podcast with another pastorabout the sermon series I'm
preaching.
So there's a lot of differentthings that are happening and
(23:53):
people are going to hear thispodcast.
They're going to put it on ourstream, you're going to have it
on yours, we'll put it out there.
So that's it's been amazingpeople.
It's hard sometimes for peopleto to really engage with your
sermon throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I was tired of getting done at 1230 on Sunday
and then Sunday night, startinga new message and doing nothing
(24:29):
with what just happenedyesterday and thought, man, I
poured so much time and energyinto that.
I know there are conversationsto be had, I know there are
stuff I couldn't touch on Sundaybecause I didn't have time and
it's gone.
And I thought, you know what?
I want to wake up Mondaymorning and still talk about
what I preached on yesterdaybecause it's still in my heart
and I know it's still on theminds of people.
Some of them have no idea whatI preached yesterday, and so I
(24:51):
want to make sure that I'm doingjustice to the time I poured
into God's word.
Nick, how old are you?
44.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
All right.
So, first of all, your wisdomis more than a 44-year-old I
think I've told you that beforebut also I'm so jealous of how
you use technology like this, somuch better than I do.
I've learned a lot from youjust watching how you use this
stuff and I thought, man, I needto really restart up.
I had a podcast a couple ofyears ago a podcast a couple of
(25:20):
years ago and it was good.
But, man, you've reallychallenged me and I'm probably
going to have to start doingthis too.
So thanks a lot, nick.
I appreciate you giving morework to me Making you work more.
I love it.
You're stretching me as I watchyou do things like this.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I love it.
My mind doesn't stop on thegospel and I used to think that
was a problem.
I never have time to rest.
But I realized, no, I have moreto do, yes, and I'm just not
doing it.
And that's why my mind's notresting.
I have stuff in there that Iwant to get out and I'm having
to put it to the side to get tothe next thing.
I'm like that's not fair to thegifts God's put in my heart.
(25:52):
That's right, and so trying toflesh it out there.
But technology is hard.
So let me ask you this kind ofon that same idea of you helping
people in Romans and youalluded to this because you're
having dinners with peoplepeople are reaching out.
So how are you helping peoplethrough the harder truths of sin
and wrath and judgment, whilealso highlighting grace?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, thankfully I don't have to do much because
the book of Romans is doing it,because even in the beginning
parts, right where there's somereally hard stuff, he still
gives hints and markers thatthere's something better coming.
It's just brilliant.
And then you know, second halfof chapter four and chapter five
and part of chapter six, youstart, you really get some
encouraging stuff, and then, sixand seven, it gets a little bit
(26:34):
harder.
He's using some analogies thatare difficult.
Right, he uses a series ofanalogies to explain how grace
has fulfilled the law and hegoes through that and that gets
a little bit wonky.
But then I keep telling ourpeople that, listen, there are
parts of this that have beenvery encouraging, parts that are
challenging, but there's someincredible stuff coming.
There's some incredible stuffand I can't wait to get to them,
(26:56):
you know.
But anyway, so that's what Iwould say.
Paul's been doing it for us,right?
Because he talks about thesehard things, but he always says
but there's grace, but there'sgrace, but now.
But now I think it was myfourth or fifth sermon in the
series, maybe it wasn't, it wastitled.
But now, because he says allthese things and he says but now
(27:17):
grace has, and that was justlike yeah, right, you remember?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.
So what's coming up in theseries that you're especially
looking forward?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
to preach.
Okay, the next one will be week13.
I'm not doing it this week andI won't be doing it on Palm
Sunday.
We're doing a baptism on PalmSunday and I've decided to do
Lazarus for Easter.
So this won't be for aboutthree weeks, but it's on the
idea where he uses divorce as ananalogy of grace and in
(27:46):
Deuteronomy, about the husbandputting out the wife who is
unfaithful or displeasing,depending on how it's translated
.
And it made me realize wait aminute he's making analogy of
the law as a husband who wasdispleased with us, his spouse,
and put us not only up fordivorce but for death and how
Jesus becomes our husband.
(28:06):
It's just incredible stuff.
I'm excited about that.
And then, of course, you know,I'm a reformed kind of Calvinist
theologian, so I can't wait forchapters eight chapters nine,
you know what I'm saying.
I'm going to have a blast withall of that, you know.
And Romans 8, we've preachedRomans 8 or Romans 9 at funerals
(28:27):
.
I mean, I just can't wait forthat stuff.
I'm so excited about that, Ican't believe the week 13,.
Romans 7, I can't preach it fortwo weeks.
I'm ready to go now.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I hear you, and Romans 8 is so important to the
gospel.
I mean, I think people whenthey understand Romans 8, it
changes everything for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It changed it for me.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I'm excited, I'm preaching, so I'm staying in
series for Easter.
I always debate whether to orwhether not to.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And so I'm doing Romans 3.25 that talks about and
answering the question for thepeople why did Jesus have to die
?
Like why is that?
Because I mean people ask thatLike, why was this God's plan
right?
And it's personal for me not todive into this part of the
story, but the church I was apart of before when everything
went south theologically there.
One of the things that wentsouth was the pastor's view on
(29:15):
atonement, why Jesus had to dieLike he changed his whole
philosophy on that and it blewmy mind.
There's so many holes in whathe believes now that it shocked
me.
I'm going to actually spend alot of time on Easter morning
talking about atonement theoriesand why we believe in
substitutionary atonement andwhy that's such a big deal for
you in the gospel.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, you can't preach through Romans or read
Romans and not understand that.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, I don't think you can, but every now and then
somebody surprises me Well ifyou try to do that, you're not
preaching through verse by verse.
Yeah, so last question for youtoday Is there anything you
would like to say to someonelistening?
This podcast is in 17 countriesat the moment.
It's all across the world.
People are listening.
Why they're listening to me?
(30:05):
I have no clue, but they'relistening right To someone who
might be struggling with theweight of the message in Romans.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So I think the most important thing, if you're
listening to a series on Romansor you're reading Romans and
you're struggling with themessage that's early on,
especially in Romans, justremember what Paul is doing is
he's explaining just how much weneed grace, but also how
powerful grace is that, evenwith all of that stuff that's
hard and difficult to hear, evenwith all of that, you have
(30:34):
these, but now moments, andthat's what we challenge our
people.
Look for your but now moment,but now grace, but now mercy,
but now love, but nowforgiveness.
So, yeah, all that stuff ishard, but there's a but now
moment coming, and that's whatRomans is so great at.
It's like this big setup thing.
He's like a lawyer.
He's saying you know, there'sthis guilt and it's undeniable,
and all these things, but nowcomes grace, and I just I think
(30:57):
that that would be the thingthat I would say for me.
So what are you looking forwardto?
Mostly?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I think I'm looking forward honestly to how much
Romans is going to change me.
You personally?
I personally believe that Everytime I read the gospel I feel
more overwhelmed by God.
I tell people all the time, themore I know God, the more I
realize how much I don't knowabout God right, like he's
bigger than I can ever imagine.
And so these last two years ofpreaching whether it was the
(31:25):
Psalm series, the John series ordiving into Romans I'm just
excited about how much I'm goingto grow in the next 30 weeks in
this series, excited about mypeople growing as well in the
church, grabbing onto the gospel.
But I feel like if I don't getexcited about myself and don't
allow it to change me it's whatyou said earlier Oftentimes
we're putting a picture ofsomebody that we hope hears the
(31:47):
message this weekend, we werejoking.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
We never do that people, ever.
It never happens.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
But with Romans.
I'm kind of that picture right,like what is this going to do
to me this weekend, and so I'mexcited about that.
But I really am excited aboutEaster diving into Romans 3.
You've done chapter 3 already.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, I'm writing 7, second half of 7.
So first half of 7 is done.
Second half of 7 is what I'mwriting now.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, so I'll be two or three more weeks.
I'll be mid chapter 3.
I mean, I'm actually doingthree weeks on that chapter.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So there's no chance you're going to catch up that I
can glean stuff from you.
This is all one way right.
It's a one-way relationship.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Joe.
I told him early on.
I was like I'm glad you'reahead of me, I can just listen
to your messages.
Hey Joe, if people want toconnect with you, if they want
to buy your books, if they wantto listen to your sermons, how
can they find you?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Gracelifesrqcom.
Books are on Amazon, JosephDavis.
I have an author's page there.
Author's page on Facebook.
Joseph Davis.
We're on YouTube, GracelifeSarasota, and so those are our
venues, kind of the same thateveryone else has, but I'm easy
to find.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, and if they're local here in Sarasota looking
for a church, what time are yourservices?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
We have a 9 am service.
That we added in Januarybecause we've been growing.
It's been exciting, right,that's been exciting.
9 am and then 1030.
Okay and yeah, so those are ourservices on Lockwood Ridge,
17th Street and Lockwood Ridge.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And then we did touch on recovery, so we've got
recovery here on Sunday nights.
Touch on recovery, so we've gotrecovery here on Sunday nights,
celebrate recovery at seveno'clock at South Shore and then
at Grace Life.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
you do, we Grace Life recovery, monday nights at
seven o'clock.
We also have recovery church.
That's on Tuesday nights atseven.
Spirit of Recovery Wednesdaynights at seven.
Grace House has their weeklymeeting at our church.
Also, project Exodus will behaving their weekly meetings at
our church.
That's awesome.
Then we have a women's onlygroup that meets on Friday
nights at 7.
(33:44):
And then there is a basic textgroup on Saturday nights at 8.
So you can see we are in thetrenches.
That's what God has called usto be for our church, and I
wouldn't want to have it anyother way.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No, I love it.
Joe, I appreciate you makingtime for this today and being
here with me and excited aboutwalking through Romans with you.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'm excited.
Love you, man.
Thank you, you as well.
Hey podcasters, welcome back to another episode
of Beyond Sunday special episode.
Today I have a guest with meand you guys are going to be
excited to meet him.
Some of you guys know him ifyou've been at South Shore for a
while.
He's preached here before.
I've been a friend of SouthShore for a long time, a friend
of mine.
He's a pastor in town, anauthor, an entrepreneur, a
rescuer of people.
Honestly, I think he has one ofthe most unique churches in
(00:22):
Sarasota and I say that becauseI don't think most churches are
unique.
I think most churches are justlike other churches, mine
included, but what he does isjust different.
Maybe we'll touch on that alittle bit today.
But, joe Pastor, joe Davis,welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Man, we've been talking about doing this for a
while.
I'm excited to finally getrolling on it.
Man, it's been awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, it actually came, because I was talking to
Dustin Myers.
You know, Dustin?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
the one who likes me.
He likes me better than you.
He does like you better than me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I don't even think he listens to my podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You're here, he'll listen, dustin.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was telling Dustin that you were doing Romans, I
was doing Romans and he's likeyou guys should do a podcast
together and I thought that'sactually a really good idea.
It's a great idea, and we'vebeen talking about it forever,
haven't been able to pull it off.
So before we jump into the ideabehind the podcast and talking
about Romans today, for thosethat don't know, you, take a
moment to introduce yourself.
Tell us a little about yourchurch and what's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, we started Grace Life in 2016, but my
relationship with South Shoregoes back to 2008.
I just moved back to Sarasotaafter we had lost our daughter,
sarah, and Brian Yost was thepastor at South Shore and God
really used Brian to shepherd meback to health spiritually, to
get me back into ministry.
I'd started the NightlifeCenter, which was an outreach to
teens.
I think you would come to theallies meeting there a few times
(01:42):
where I had the youth pastorscome in.
But South Shore was my churchand Brian was my pastor.
I still call him my pastortoday and so I'm very close to a
lot of people in your churchwho are kind of like that core
South Shore group.
And so South Shore has justalways had a very special place
in my heart and Laura's heartand my son Ben, because at a
(02:03):
time in our life when we neededit the most, this was the body
of believers that God used toheal us and to get us back into
ministry.
So I have great affection forSouth Shore and I have great
affection for you.
I think we met when we wereboth kind of doing some youth
ministry in town and I was soproud of you when you went
through a difficult time.
In a prior ministry.
You took a stand for the gospelthat I was just man.
(02:26):
This guy Nick, he's awesome andI just we just became.
We were friends before, butthen we became closer and then,
when you started here and it'sjust been I have tremendous
respect for you.
You're a brilliant guy, greatcommunicator, you're a great
shepherd for your people and Godhas really blessed your
ministry here in this campus atSouth Shore and I'm just amazed
by how God has used you.
I'm a little jealous sometimesof all the things you're able to
(02:48):
do that I can't as far as yourtalents and skills, but we have
a really cool relationship and Iknow that you have been a
tremendous blessing.
You've spoken at our church afew times too for some of our
recovery ministries.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, and I didn't even pay him to say any of that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So well done, joe.
No, I love, I love the peopleat South Shore and they love me.
And you know, because we justgo back a long ways and it's
just a great place.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, and I've spoken at your recovery ministries.
You speak at ours on Sundaynight, so that's been a huge
thing.
And you've spoke here at thechurch before.
It's been a while, but you'vespoken here and our churches are
different in some ways.
I kind of alluded to that inthe beginning, but we've always
supported each other over theyears.
And what do you think thatpartnership means?
Because I don't know that allchurches partner.
(03:32):
It's a little bafflingsometimes that how many churches
don't communicate and talk.
But even especially, probablythrough this Roman series.
I mean you and I have had acouple of phone calls talking
through the gospel, talkingthrough Romans, talking through
some hard passages.
What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
First of all, it's very humbling to have a friend
like you who is such anencouragement to me.
You buy my books, you postpictures of them.
It's awesome stuff.
But it's meant a lot to me toget to know you better and to
know that we have thislike-mindedness.
And I will tell you that one ofthe things I love about you is
you have one of the similarpassions that we have at Grace.
(04:09):
Life is you're preachingthrough books of the Bible and
most churches are afraid to dothat because there are hard
passages that are going to bedifficult to challenge, but you
can't shy away from them and Ireally appreciate the fact that
we had that like-mindedness.
You know it helps me bounceideas off of you, but it's been
(04:30):
a lot to our church and it'sbeen a lot to me personally.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I didn't always preach that way, and one of the
reasons I didn't is I didn'tthink people wanted it.
Oh really yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So when did that?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
change for you.
I thought, man, church growthright You're trying to reach
more people and be successful,yeah.
I just felt like man, that'swhat they want to hear.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Another series on family or whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, and then I realized people don't know what
they want to hear and in oursociety they're getting so much
of that the topical, the how doyou do it that they need the
word of God.
And so it really.
It became a conviction of mine,probably about two years ago,
that I realized, man, I need todig in with our church more, and
first series we did was thegospel of John, and I wasn't
(05:15):
sure how it would go and peopleloved it, like I.
I was shocked at how many peopleloved it and we'll talk about
this in a moment but I've beenshocked about how many people
have loved Romans Me too.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Me too, you know, because I feel like a lot of
times, nick, people have startedto treat the Bible and passages
in the Bible like memes, andit's just heartbreaking when I
see somebody take a picture of aBible page and then they'll
outline something or circle itand try to apply it to a
politician or a cultural event,I just my heart sinks because
there's so much more like no, no, you got to take a picture of
(05:50):
the seven pages before that youknow.
Yeah, the word of God is souniquely powerful and connected,
and I'm thankful that you arepreaching the Bible that way.
It's an encouragement.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So let's talk about this.
This is our topic for the daywhere we're diving in.
Why, romans?
What led you to choose the bookof Romans for preaching this
year?
And I've been talking aboutthis for probably a year.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, at least yeah.
So first of all, fulldisclosure.
I've known that I was going tohave to preach Romans at some
point for a long time, and I'vebeen putting it off.
I remember a phone call you toldme that I've been putting it
off because I said, you know, atsome point I'm going to have to
do Romans.
I was afraid to preach Romansfor a couple of reasons.
(06:32):
First of all, I'm Reformed inmy theology and the idea is, if
you're a Reformed theologian,you got to take Romans for three
years because there's so muchin there.
So I was afraid of that.
Right, I was afraid that Iwould have 52 weeks in Romans.
People aren't going to, oh mygoodness.
But the other thing is there'ssome difficult passages and
there are people in our church,as you said, we have a very
(06:53):
unique church.
It's very diverse people inbackgrounds and ethnicity and
all that kind of stuff.
And I knew it was going to be achallenging thing, but I
finally came to the point whereI realized and I knew it was
going to be a challenging thing,but I finally came to the point
where I realized, you know what?
Our church was healthy, it wasgrowing and I felt, you know,
this is the best time right now.
There's not going to be abetter time right now.
(07:15):
We're on the verge of God doingsome incredible things.
And I really do think, nick,when it comes to the book of
Romans, whether or not youpreach it or not, or how you
preach it, defines what youreally are as a church, because
most churches are going to stayaway from it.
Well, you know, it's just.
It reads like a legal brief.
You know, it's the greatesttheological treatise in the
(07:37):
history of man and he didn'twrite it with any type of search
engines.
It's incredible, right, it's amiraculous thing.
And I think the fact that youdo preach Romans and how you
preach it defines what you areas a church.
And I wanted to make sure.
I felt like we'd alreadydefined ourselves, but I wanted
to throw down the marker.
You know, this is who we are,and I was thinking about it.
(07:57):
Then, when you told me you weredoing it, I said oh well, then
I'm doing it.
You kind of pushed me over that.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I remember that phone call because you said, man, you
kind of cautioned me Like areyou sure you want to do that,
Because once you dive in, you'rediving in.
And then you and I startedtalking about doing this thing
together.
Right, Like that was the plan.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
By the way, I have a little bit of a beef, I have a
little bit of bitterness thatI'm holding onto towards you,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So when we talked about this and I said, yeah, I
think I'm going to start it likethe second week in January, you
said, yeah, we'll probably doit early February.
I said, great, you'll only belike three weeks, you know, and
I work ahead of time so we cancollaborate.
Three months later, you finallyget started.
It's like you pushed me outthere on this Roman's cliff.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I said good luck.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And then I turned around and you were gone.
I'm just kidding on, I'm justkidding Anyway it's been great.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, our series started later than originally
planned, but it's been good.
So, romans what themes ortruths in Romans feel especially
urgent maybe, or even relevant,either for your church right
now, or just culture right now?
What is it that excites youabout or scares you even?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I think the best thing about Romans for our
church and for the culture isRomans gives you a definition of
grace that cannot bemanipulated or filtered or
cheapened.
It defines grace as somethingthat is powerful.
(09:25):
It defines grace.
Grace comes before faith, gracecomes before mercy Grace comes
all of those things are part ofgrace.
So Paul does a great job oftaking this definition of grace
and saying look, everythingabout our relationship with God
is undeserved favor, this gracething and I think that's one of
(09:47):
the things that's so powerfulabout Romans that our culture
needs to understand what grace,from a theological perspective,
really is.
And that's what it's beenpowerful for me to see.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So we've alluded to this multiple times that Romans
isn't always easy to preach andit's not easy to hear.
What makes Romans a hard bookfor modern audiences?
Why do you and I, why do we,have pauses to preaching Romans,
the weight of it and knowingthe messages?
(10:17):
You and I had a conversationearly on in January.
One of the things I love aboutyou and your preaching style is
you and I hope this is okay toshare like you, have people that
test your messages, if you will, that read what you write, not
after you preach it, beforeBefore you preach it Absolutely
Making sure that you haven'thumanized the gospel, that you
(10:39):
haven't put your own spin on it,that it is true to the text,
and I love that about you.
I wish my messages were done intime to do that.
I'm just trying to get readyfor a Sunday here, but we do
that especially in this Romans,because there are some hard
(10:59):
passages.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So what makes it so hard?
You know, especially in thisculture, this culture that's
fighting over wokeness and whatis relevant and what is not
relevant.
And you know, is moralityreally subjective or objective?
Man, there is no delineationabout what is right and wrong in
the way Paul writes.
He writes just in this bold waythat, like, could you imagine
(11:21):
if Paul wrote Romans today?
Like he would be canceled?
Yeah, he'd be canceled.
So one of the things that makesme nervous are those hard
passages.
He talks about sexual purityand idolatry and all these
things.
But I feel like the other partof it is there are people on the
other side who are like ultraconservative, who have turned
(11:44):
romans into something to beatpeople up with.
Yeah, so you have this.
Like there's romans isn'trelevant for today and other
people.
Well, you better listen to this, because Romans is talking
about you.
No, it's talking about all ofus, and so I hope that answers
your question.
But to me, the hard passagesare because he doesn't really
(12:04):
leave any room for error when itcomes to interpreting.
Well, what does Paul mean inthe Greek?
Well, it means the same thingin the English translation,
right?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, it's interesting, because I do think
people weaponize Romans.
Oh, so much.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I have.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I've weaponized it in my past and it's hard because
there's the just to get specific, there's the passage in Romans
1 that talks about homosexualityand you and I both have people
in our churches that have chosenthat lifestyle and you don't
want to hurt people but you wantto speak the truth to them.
But the problem with thatpassage is it doesn't only speak
(12:42):
about homosexuality.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Though you and I were talking about this the other
day.
So he lists all these sins,right, yeah, and one of them in
there is disobedience to parents.
And so when I was preaching thesecond half of Romans 1, I said
have you guys noticed thatdisobedience to parents is in
there?
Well, no, because you guys arenoticing the sexual part of this
.
What about the lying, and whatabout the gossiping and the
slander, and what aboutdisobedience to parents?
(13:05):
It's in there twice.
And so you're right, that was ahard one.
That was a hard one.
I think I called you, yeah,because I added you to my list
of sermon coaches and I saidNick, am I soft peddling this,
yeah, or am I presenting in away that's going to edify the
body of Christ and not just looklike I'm targeting one person,
yeah, or two people, or 10people?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That's the line we walk with everything we preach,
right?
Are we soft pedaling this tomake people feel comfortable,
yeah?
Or are we targeting one groupbecause of one word or one
passage?
Or we speak into the wholecrowd, because Romans speaks to
the whole crowd, right, all ofus, 100%.
It speaks to every one of us.
Nobody escapes, nobody's safein.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Romans and the opening of Romans, unless
they're in grace, unless they'rein grace, then they're safe.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
The opening of Romans is just a court case against
humanity, Like he's just writing.
This list, laundry list of thisis why you need Jesus.
You're all sinners, and if youdon't think you are, let me list
out some things that are wrongwith you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
This is why grace is so essential.
That's what he's telling us,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So how do you prepare your heart, but also the heart
of your people, to hear thesehard passages, to hear the
tougher more convicting parts ofRomans.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So, to let people get into the pull back the curtain
on us pastors.
And when we're writing, right,there's always the situation
where we're writing a sermon andwe think, oh this person, I
hope they're there, right, right, you've done that, right?
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Yeah, of course not.
Of course you don't.
But when it came to Romans, Ihaven't been able to do that,
because every time my mindstarted thinking, oh, this
person.
Then I realized, oh, no, I needto hear this.
(14:44):
And when I'm writing and I'musually working about two and a
half weeks ahead of time, soI've had a chance to really
ruminate on it and think aboutit and I got to tell you by the
time I've preached it or I'mready, I get up to preach it.
It's been kicking my butt yeah,excuse me for three weeks.
And so the way I prepare myheart is, when I'm reading this
(15:07):
and I'm writing it and I'mstudying it and I'm researching,
I'm always asking myself okay,how would I want to hear this?
Or how would I hear this if?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I were being preached to and that's how I go through
with Romans.
No, that's good.
Yeah, that's good.
I mean similar.
I preached through the 23rdPsalm, man, probably a year and
a half ago, and it was the mostconvicting message for me that
I've ever preached.
It was a 12 week series, justtaking it apart, and it was the
most convicting message for methat I've ever preached.
It was a 12-week series, justtaking it apart.
And it was one of those that Ifell in love with Jesus.
More right, you preached Psalm23 for 12 weeks.
(15:40):
12 weeks, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, it wasn't me amazing, but it was amazing for
me.
Awesome, just diving into itand realizing man how good God
is, and it was good for me.
So, into it and realizing manhow good God is, and it was good
for me.
So let me ask you this Lookingat your church, looking at the
hearts of your people, what doyou hope this series will
accomplish?
You're doing 36 weeks roughly.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
No, I think it's going to be 24.
24, okay, I'm averaging abouttwo, so let me just clarify what
that means.
Yeah, I've decided to preachRomans, different than any other
reformed pastor, probably everhas.
Because you're not doing threeyears.
No, I decided.
You know what, when Paul wroteRomans, there were no massive
commentaries on it for hispeople.
(16:27):
It was read out loud incommunity in big chunks, and so
he wanted he was, he designed itto be heard and processed real
time, without a thesaurus,without a concordance and
without looking at what JohnGill's expository commentary
wrote on it.
So I've been preaching it andI've been telling my people I
(16:49):
want you to hear this as if youare a Jew because we have Jews
in our church or a Gentile infirst century Rome hearing it
read out loud without your ownscroll, for the first time.
So I've been doing about twosermons per chapter in bigger
chunks and, instead of trying todive into every word, trying to
look at the big picture andwhat I've been hoping it will
(17:12):
accomplish.
Honestly, Nick, I believe atthe end of Romans and this will
be true for your church as wellour congregations will be
incredibly theologicallyrelevant and theologically in
tune with God's word more thanthey ever have been, Because if
you can understand Romans, boy,the rest of it starts to come
(17:32):
into place, Would you agree?
So I think our churches, ourcongregations, are going to be
so fluent theologically at theend of this.
I'm so excited about that.
I really am.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
One of the things I love the picture of Romans for
me, for Paul, is he's in Gaius'house, his scribe is writing
this stuff down and I can almostsee Paul, just so excited,
pacing the room.
And that's why we have theselong run-on sentences.
That's why he's because he'snot writing like an author.
(18:04):
That's right.
He is just speaking out hisheart for God and what does it
speak to his brilliance?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Oh yeah, oh incredible, like he might be one
of the smartest people inchurch history, if not the
smartest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So you've been in this how many weeks?
So far, I've done 12 weeks, 12weeks.
Yes, I am behind.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, way.
Yes, we are aware you are 12weeks in.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What has the response from the early part of this
series been for you, from yourchurch?
Have you seen any fruit?
Is there excitement about this?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Man, I have been stunned by how God has used it.
I knew that people would likeit, but I didn't think people
would love it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I feel the same way.
I can't like, and I've hadpeople that I didn't expect,
like after preaching that secondhalf of chapter one okay, that
(19:03):
passage and if you guys arelistening to the podcast, don't
know why I'm mentioning it.
Go read second half of chapterone and you can see why us
pastors might be full of anxiety.
I had people I didn't expectcome up to me in tears saying
Pastor Joe, that was great, Ireally loved that.
Thank you so much for justpreaching that the way you did.
And I was like wow.
(19:24):
And so once I got past firstthe second half of chapter one,
I thought I won't have to preachthat again for 30 years.
I was relieved.
But you know, it's just beenwonderful.
It's been wonderful to seeGod's people and that just
speaks to the spirit of Godright and the power of his word.
It's not because the way I'mpreaching it or the way you're
(19:44):
preaching it, it's the spirit ofGod saying I love using my word
.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's interesting.
I talked to a retired pastorearlier this week that said in
his ministry he never preachedthrough Romans and he said he
wasn't scared of it.
He just really didn't know howto not offend everybody in his
church and preach it.
And that doesn't mean he didn'tpreach parts of Romans or
pieces of it, but he just neversat down and did the whole thing
(20:10):
because he was scared of it.
And I do think that that'sprobably common that pastors are
scared of.
If I preach this, half mychurch is leaving.
Oh yeah, if I tell them thehard truth of the gospel,
they're going to go.
And what am I going to do?
Yes, and that's sad, but Iunderstand it.
Right, crazy.
(20:31):
Having that conversation withthat guy the other day really
just rocked my mind a little bit, because he's a guy I have a
lot of respect for.
But I also felt his heartsaying I wanted to.
I just didn't know how to do it, Nick.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Okay, I'm not trying to overplay it, but it's
probably one of the mostimportant decisions we've made
as pastors.
Yeah, I don't disagree Is topreach through Romans Would you
agree with that?
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So let me throw this on you for a moment.
How has preaching throughRomans impacted you, either
spiritually, emotionally or evenin your leadership?
How has that affected you overthe last 12 weeks, or even
longer, since you prepare?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
So, obviously, because of the way we've always
preached at Grace Life, it'salways been chapter by chapter,
verse by verse, book by book.
So I've always had confidencein God's word.
But in preaching the Romans,for me it's just been, you know
what.
I'll never want to preachanother way, and it's just given
me even more confidence thatGod uses his word.
It's such an amazing, this wordof God.
(21:29):
The guys from the Bible Projectdo a great job talking about
hyperlinks all through scripture, and when you stop and really
start looking at them, it'spretty fascinating.
It's an amazing and it's just.
It's so comforting to know thatit's never going to wear me out
.
Or I'm never going to wear itout.
You know it'll wear me out, butI'm never going to wear it out.
So that's what I would say yeah, yeah, I would think that's
(21:51):
spot on.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I think when you get to this season of preaching
books of the Bible and there area lot of young pastors that
still stay away from it forreasons I've talked about it's
easier.
God's already done all the work.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, I don't have to try to be relevant.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
No, because God's word is relevant All the time.
Yes, so what has surprised youor challenged you the most so
far?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
in Romans.
So my sermon coaches they havenot liked the fact that I have
not gone into more detail.
They think, no, you should slowdown, you should do like five
sermons in this chapter.
And I've held true to myoriginal idea, which is no, I
want my people to hear the wayit was heard in the first
century.
(22:36):
That's the historical relevantcontext, and so that's been one
of the things.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, which honestly leaves you for 30 years down the
road to come back.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I'm not coming back.
I'm going to Psalms for alittle while, probably after
this.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I hear you So-.
Let's take Sunday morning.
We pour out the word of GodLike that's our heart.
That's what we spend so muchtime and energy during the week
on.
How are you helping your peopleengage with Romans outside of
Sundays?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
We started a grace group we call them grace groups
or some people call them lifegroups or small groups that I'm
leading and it's just questionand answer Anything you want to
ask me about what I've beenpreaching.
Oh well, and we go into detailon some of these topics and some
of these ideas and it's justbeen tremendous and I've also
invited people.
If you have questions, messageme or email me.
(23:31):
So we've gotten a lot ofdynamic flow back and forth on
that.
I have had more requests for apastor Joe, can we get together
for dinner to discuss this thanI have in any other sermon
series.
So I've been going, takingpeople out to dinner, been
talking about Romans and gracegroups and I've never done a
podcast with another pastorabout the sermon series I'm
preaching.
So there's a lot of differentthings that are happening and
(23:53):
people are going to hear thispodcast.
They're going to put it on ourstream, you're going to have it
on yours, we'll put it out there.
So that's it's been amazingpeople.
It's hard sometimes for peopleto to really engage with your
sermon throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I was tired of getting done at 1230 on Sunday
and then Sunday night, startinga new message and doing nothing
(24:29):
with what just happenedyesterday and thought, man, I
poured so much time and energyinto that.
I know there are conversationsto be had, I know there are
stuff I couldn't touch on Sundaybecause I didn't have time and
it's gone.
And I thought, you know what?
I want to wake up Mondaymorning and still talk about
what I preached on yesterdaybecause it's still in my heart
and I know it's still on theminds of people.
Some of them have no idea whatI preached yesterday, and so I
(24:51):
want to make sure that I'm doingjustice to the time I poured
into God's word.
Nick, how old are you?
44.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
All right.
So, first of all, your wisdomis more than a 44-year-old I
think I've told you that beforebut also I'm so jealous of how
you use technology like this, somuch better than I do.
I've learned a lot from youjust watching how you use this
stuff and I thought, man, I needto really restart up.
I had a podcast a couple ofyears ago a podcast a couple of
(25:20):
years ago and it was good.
But, man, you've reallychallenged me and I'm probably
going to have to start doingthis too.
So thanks a lot, nick.
I appreciate you giving morework to me Making you work more.
I love it.
You're stretching me as I watchyou do things like this.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I love it.
My mind doesn't stop on thegospel and I used to think that
was a problem.
I never have time to rest.
But I realized, no, I have moreto do, yes, and I'm just not
doing it.
And that's why my mind's notresting.
I have stuff in there that Iwant to get out and I'm having
to put it to the side to get tothe next thing.
I'm like that's not fair to thegifts God's put in my heart.
(25:52):
That's right, and so trying toflesh it out there.
But technology is hard.
So let me ask you this kind ofon that same idea of you helping
people in Romans and youalluded to this because you're
having dinners with peoplepeople are reaching out.
So how are you helping peoplethrough the harder truths of sin
and wrath and judgment, whilealso highlighting grace?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, thankfully I don't have to do much because
the book of Romans is doing it,because even in the beginning
parts, right where there's somereally hard stuff, he still
gives hints and markers thatthere's something better coming.
It's just brilliant.
And then you know, second halfof chapter four and chapter five
and part of chapter six, youstart, you really get some
encouraging stuff, and then, sixand seven, it gets a little bit
(26:34):
harder.
He's using some analogies thatare difficult.
Right, he uses a series ofanalogies to explain how grace
has fulfilled the law and hegoes through that and that gets
a little bit wonky.
But then I keep telling ourpeople that, listen, there are
parts of this that have beenvery encouraging, parts that are
challenging, but there's someincredible stuff coming.
There's some incredible stuffand I can't wait to get to them,
(26:56):
you know.
But anyway, so that's what Iwould say.
Paul's been doing it for us,right?
Because he talks about thesehard things, but he always says
but there's grace, but there'sgrace, but now.
But now I think it was myfourth or fifth sermon in the
series, maybe it wasn't, it wastitled.
But now, because he says allthese things and he says but now
(27:17):
grace has, and that was justlike yeah, right, you remember?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.
So what's coming up in theseries that you're especially
looking forward?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
to preach.
Okay, the next one will be week13.
I'm not doing it this week andI won't be doing it on Palm
Sunday.
We're doing a baptism on PalmSunday and I've decided to do
Lazarus for Easter.
So this won't be for aboutthree weeks, but it's on the
idea where he uses divorce as ananalogy of grace and in
(27:46):
Deuteronomy, about the husbandputting out the wife who is
unfaithful or displeasing,depending on how it's translated
.
And it made me realize wait aminute he's making analogy of
the law as a husband who wasdispleased with us, his spouse,
and put us not only up fordivorce but for death and how
Jesus becomes our husband.
(28:06):
It's just incredible stuff.
I'm excited about that.
And then, of course, you know,I'm a reformed kind of Calvinist
theologian, so I can't wait forchapters eight chapters nine,
you know what I'm saying.
I'm going to have a blast withall of that, you know.
And Romans 8, we've preachedRomans 8 or Romans 9 at funerals
(28:27):
.
I mean, I just can't wait forthat stuff.
I'm so excited about that, Ican't believe the week 13,.
Romans 7, I can't preach it fortwo weeks.
I'm ready to go now.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I hear you, and Romans 8 is so important to the
gospel.
I mean, I think people whenthey understand Romans 8, it
changes everything for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It changed it for me.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I'm excited, I'm preaching, so I'm staying in
series for Easter.
I always debate whether to orwhether not to.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And so I'm doing Romans 3.25 that talks about and
answering the question for thepeople why did Jesus have to die
?
Like why is that?
Because I mean people ask thatLike, why was this God's plan
right?
And it's personal for me not todive into this part of the
story, but the church I was apart of before when everything
went south theologically there.
One of the things that wentsouth was the pastor's view on
(29:15):
atonement, why Jesus had to dieLike he changed his whole
philosophy on that and it blewmy mind.
There's so many holes in whathe believes now that it shocked
me.
I'm going to actually spend alot of time on Easter morning
talking about atonement theoriesand why we believe in
substitutionary atonement andwhy that's such a big deal for
you in the gospel.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, you can't preach through Romans or read
Romans and not understand that.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, I don't think you can, but every now and then
somebody surprises me Well ifyou try to do that, you're not
preaching through verse by verse.
Yeah, so last question for youtoday Is there anything you
would like to say to someonelistening?
This podcast is in 17 countriesat the moment.
It's all across the world.
People are listening.
Why they're listening to me?
(30:05):
I have no clue, but they'relistening right To someone who
might be struggling with theweight of the message in Romans.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
So I think the most important thing, if you're
listening to a series on Romansor you're reading Romans and
you're struggling with themessage that's early on,
especially in Romans, justremember what Paul is doing is
he's explaining just how much weneed grace, but also how
powerful grace is that, evenwith all of that stuff that's
hard and difficult to hear, evenwith all of that, you have
(30:34):
these, but now moments, andthat's what we challenge our
people.
Look for your but now moment,but now grace, but now mercy,
but now love, but nowforgiveness.
So, yeah, all that stuff ishard, but there's a but now
moment coming, and that's whatRomans is so great at.
It's like this big setup thing.
He's like a lawyer.
He's saying you know, there'sthis guilt and it's undeniable,
and all these things, but nowcomes grace, and I just I think
(30:57):
that that would be the thingthat I would say for me.
So what are you looking forwardto?
Mostly?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I think I'm looking forward honestly to how much
Romans is going to change me.
You personally?
I personally believe that Everytime I read the gospel I feel
more overwhelmed by God.
I tell people all the time, themore I know God, the more I
realize how much I don't knowabout God right, like he's
bigger than I can ever imagine.
And so these last two years ofpreaching whether it was the
(31:25):
Psalm series, the John series ordiving into Romans I'm just
excited about how much I'm goingto grow in the next 30 weeks in
this series, excited about mypeople growing as well in the
church, grabbing onto the gospel.
But I feel like if I don't getexcited about myself and don't
allow it to change me it's whatyou said earlier Oftentimes
we're putting a picture ofsomebody that we hope hears the
(31:47):
message this weekend, we werejoking.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
We never do that people, ever.
It never happens.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
But with Romans.
I'm kind of that picture right,like what is this going to do
to me this weekend, and so I'mexcited about that.
But I really am excited aboutEaster diving into Romans 3.
You've done chapter 3 already.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, I'm writing 7, second half of 7.
So first half of 7 is done.
Second half of 7 is what I'mwriting now.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, so I'll be two or three more weeks.
I'll be mid chapter 3.
I mean, I'm actually doingthree weeks on that chapter.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So there's no chance you're going to catch up that I
can glean stuff from you.
This is all one way right.
It's a one-way relationship.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Joe.
I told him early on.
I was like I'm glad you'reahead of me, I can just listen
to your messages.
Hey Joe, if people want toconnect with you, if they want
to buy your books, if they wantto listen to your sermons, how
can they find you?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Gracelifesrqcom.
Books are on Amazon, JosephDavis.
I have an author's page there.
Author's page on Facebook.
Joseph Davis.
We're on YouTube, GracelifeSarasota, and so those are our
venues, kind of the same thateveryone else has, but I'm easy
to find.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, and if they're local here in Sarasota looking
for a church, what time are yourservices?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
We have a 9 am service.
That we added in Januarybecause we've been growing.
It's been exciting, right,that's been exciting.
9 am and then 1030.
Okay and yeah, so those are ourservices on Lockwood Ridge,
17th Street and Lockwood Ridge.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And then we did touch on recovery, so we've got
recovery here on Sunday nights.
Touch on recovery, so we've gotrecovery here on Sunday nights,
celebrate recovery at seveno'clock at South Shore and then
at Grace Life.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
you do, we Grace Life recovery, monday nights at
seven o'clock.
We also have recovery church.
That's on Tuesday nights atseven.
Spirit of Recovery Wednesdaynights at seven.
Grace House has their weeklymeeting at our church.
Also, project Exodus will behaving their weekly meetings at
our church.
That's awesome.
Then we have a women's onlygroup that meets on Friday
nights at 7.
(33:44):
And then there is a basic textgroup on Saturday nights at 8.
So you can see we are in thetrenches.
That's what God has called usto be for our church, and I
wouldn't want to have it anyother way.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No, I love it.
Joe, I appreciate you makingtime for this today and being
here with me and excited aboutwalking through Romans with you.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'm excited.
Love you, man.
Thank you, you as well.
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