The Rest of the Man' Show: A Conversation with Author and Pastor Bill LaMorey

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey Podcast World, pastor Nick here with another
episode of Beyond Sunday andtoday's special episode.
I have a guest speaker, someonewhose story will honestly wreck
you in the best possible way.
His name is Bill Lamore.
I've known Bill for severalyears now.
He's a pastor and an author andbecome a friend, and he's the
author of the book the Rest ofthe Man's Show.
It's a raw, redemptive and reallook at humanity and you're

(00:26):
going to want to lean in forthis one today.
So, bill, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm doing great.
Pastor Nick, Thanks so much forhaving me on your show.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
No, I'm excited you're here.
In fact, Bill actually justwalked off stage.
We had a leadership lunch todayand Bill spoke at that.
But, Bill, before we get intothe book, can you give our quick
listeners a quick snapshot ofyour story, who you are and then
what actually led you to writethis book?
Yeah, great questions.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
So my life, born in Connecticut and moved to Florida
, moved back to Connecticut,moved back to Florida.
So I am half New England manand half Florida man, so I'm a
strange hybrid.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Are you a true Florida man, though, because
those are a little crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
No, I feel like those are a little far north, further
North of us, the real Floridawhere all the memes come from.
But I'm comfortable in Floridaman land and I'm comfortable in
new England land.
But yeah, growing up I just Iguess some things that would
probably be helpful towardsshaping this is growing up
without a dad.
Dad died at a young age.
Growing up with my mom, she hadme baptized as a baby into the

(01:27):
Catholic faith.
We never really went to church.
Years later she ended up takingme to a Christian church and
she became saved and I startedgoing to church with her and
that was a good experience and Ireally feel like something
happened there.
I feel like I came to knowJesus during that time.
There's also a pivotal momentwhere she had remarried a

(01:48):
stepfather who was abusive toher.
He was an alcoholic and anaddict and that's one of the
themes that ran in my family wasalcohol and drug addiction that
I had kind of seen exposed inmy life.
So it was an interesting thing.
When she came to Jesus, mydysfunctional stepfather at the
time didn't want anything to dowith her and so he split and so

(02:11):
immediately I was like thank you, jesus, the Jesus thing's
already working because it was achaotic element that was
removed from our home.
Obviously, then that was toughfor my mom now being a single
mom and raising me, but I wentto church with her for a few
years and then went long harddown a different prodigal road
and began with experimentationwith alcohol, drugs and heavy

(02:34):
metal.
That was kind of the scene.
I ran with getting into all ofthat stuff and began pulling
away from the church, beganhanging out with the guys at the
time they were a local band,marilyn Manson, which is always
a fun story, and that was fun inthe beginning.
Hanging out with some of thebesides the singer, some of the
other members, though, led medown a pivotal moment where,
when I was arrested, my momrefused to bail me out until I

(03:11):
agreed to enter a Christianprogram called Calvary House in
Fort Lauderdale.
So, reluctantly, I did, andlet's just say my motives
weren't right for the first time.
But three times later, afterbeing kicked out and re-entering
, I finally got it right.
Or I should say that God brokethrough and re-entering I
finally got it right.
Or I should say that God brokethrough and really grabbed ahold
of me again, put me on a rightpath, began a path of

(03:36):
restoration that, nick, when Ilook at, it's just amazing to me
to see what God did through mybrokenness.
He redeemed my family, put metogether with an amazing woman,
rebecca.
My wife gave us three beautifuldaughters.
With not knowing what to do withmy life, god hilariously I
thought I was going to enterbusiness, so I started working
in the business world pulls meout of that and puts me in
vocational ministry, leading theprogram, starting with ministry

(03:56):
that I had been a member of, aclient of years earlier, and
then moving into being anexecutive pastor in Miami and
then finally planting and beinga lead pastor in West Hartford,
connecticut, with our church nowcalled 180 Life Church.
So it is a crazy story and Iguess what motivated me to write

(04:16):
the book is about a year ago Iwas at a place it was in Montana
, on a literal mountaintop, at aplace called the Trinity
Encounter, and I wasexperiencing deep change,
renewal for Christ, and justfelt like man.
I want to be able to be a partof helping.
I know that not everyone cancome to a mountaintop experience
like this.
How do I help bring themountaintop to other people?

(04:37):
And I knew that I didn't havesome of the training that some
of the other guys did, whetherit be counseling or sort of
neuroscience, how to work intotransformation.
And I wasn't really that wasn'tmy wheelhouse, but God reminded
me.
You have a crazy story and Iwant you to take that and put it
in my hands.
And I had a title for my book,the title of the book.
I've had this for almost 20years now and I didn't know what

(05:01):
it was going to be, but I hadthe title.
God gave me the framework forit that day and it was clear
that it was finally time.
I'd wanted to write a book mywhole life and, funny, when I
got home I didn't even connectit to two.
I'm like, okay, I had adifferent title for it, but then
God said, no, this is the onefor the rest of the man's show,
and it kind of came all together.
And so then, coming back fromthat experience is when I sat

(05:21):
down and actually began to fleshit out.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Now, I wasn't going to ask this, but you brought it
up a second ago and it popped inmy head, so you went through
that recovery ministry rightOver in West Palm.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, no, fort Lauderdale, fort Lauderdale.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
And one of the crazy things I guess in ministry you
have people that have reallyhard stories and God turned them
around right.
They went through the addictionand stuff and that's not really
my story.
I grew up in church and my sinsseem small sometimes in
comparison, but I also know whatGod rescued me from and so you
always have that hard time ofcomparing right, especially as a
pastor in ministry.
But I know this that you hadthe opportunity a couple of

(05:57):
weeks ago to go back to thatprogram and to speak into part
of the story, the book you'rewriting on and kind of sharing
right now.
What did that mean to you andwhat was that like to step back
in that this many years later,having seen what God has changed
your life into from what it was.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
It was an amazing experience and it's one.
Honestly, I love anyopportunity that someone allows
me to share their stage andplatform and to share God's word
or share my story or whateverit is, but I got to tell you
that was one I was lookingforward to the most.
It was just another of I justcall them redemptive circles
that God does in my life, wherehe takes me somewhere and

(06:36):
somehow later in life, where Idon't even see it, pulls me back
in a redemptive circle.
And it was that moment, it wasjust the ability, because when I
first entered Calvary House Iwas such a mess, I was so needy.
I drove the.
I should have been thankful Iwasn't.
I drove the director insane.
I ran up his blood pressure, Ipushed back and caused a lot of

(06:57):
problems, but God really worked.
And so now to be able to goback, having been the director
and, by the way, seeing it isjust prospered and is still
cranking out God stories I wasable to sit in front of 50 guys
who sat where I sat and it'skind of like someone else said
to me, like I feel like what Isaid was helpful, but he said

(07:17):
you almost didn't need wordsother than I was in your shoes,
trust God and see what he coulddo in your life and to share
what he's done.
And it was that kind of and ofcourse you know you and I are
preachers so we use more wordsbut it was a great moment.
And then I was able to giveeach of the guys a book that I
had written, written that I hadwished I had had a copy of

(07:39):
something like that when I wasin it, but it felt great.
I don't know if they're goingto read it.
I hope they do.
I hope they like it, but I knowthat if they do, it'll be
beneficial.
I didn't write it just for theperson in recovery.
You know.
I think that everyone hasbrokenness.
I think everyone needsredemption, transformation in
different areas, but I do knowthat, based on my story, it will
probably have also a uniqueappeal for someone that's walked

(08:02):
some of those roads.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah.
So what I love about this bookis it doesn't just tell a story,
although it does tell a story.
I'm a very story-driven person,so like I was from chapter one
in your book, like I was wantingto know what's happening next,
kind of thing which is a greatcompliment to a writer, because
that's what you want to drawpeople in.
But it doesn't just tell astory, it invites the reader
into their own healing journey.
So it's not just about you,it's about the person reading

(08:25):
the book.
You mentioned this a moment ago.
The title is so creative therest of the man's show.
So can you unpack the meaningbehind that?
Yeah, and it's funny.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I was advised not to use this title by a friend
because it's not a greatmarketing title.
It's kind of weird.
It's like maybe it's marketinghelpful in the sense that it's
unique and curious, but mostbooks like you want to tell
someone you have a great title,be free.
It's like I know what the bookis about and what he's promising
to help me with, but I reallyfelt that I wanted to stick with

(08:54):
it.
The subtitle helps explain, Ihope, a bit more.
A beautiful, gritty story andguide to bring new life to your
soul.
That's the purpose, but thestory was absolutely hilarious.
So a woman came to our churchand she walks up to me after a
church service.
I had never seen her before.
The first thing she says to meis I bat for the other team and

(09:19):
so I braced myself because Ididn't know if this was going to
be some kind of awkward ordifficult conversation.
And then, after it seems likeshe did this intentionally to
make me uncomfortable, after along pause, she finally says I'm
Jewish and I started laughing.
I was like, okay, great, and Iwas curious at this point.
And then she explained you know, I came to church today because
my neighbor's daughter you weredoing the dedication for and I

(09:41):
wanted to support her.
My intention was to leave assoon as that part of the service
was over.
So I grabbed my son she sayshe's four years old and began to
try to leave and he said wait,mom, I want to stay and see the
rest of the man show.
And I just thought that that'sjust funny on a lot of different
levels and at that moment Ikind of locked in.

(10:01):
It just got stuck in my brain.
And then, you know, she went onto explain a few things.
But I just loved that because atfirst I thought maybe that is
like explaining my story andkind of pulling back the curtain
, because when you it's not ashow church obviously we know
that but there is that thatsense where it feels like that
there's seats set up and there'sa stage and a speaker and

(10:22):
everything else.
But I realized over time whathappened in the mountain?
Is it realized that like whenpeople see the rest of the man's
show, I'm not actually the manin the title, god's the man and
the man, if you will and I knowI don't say that in a
sacrilegious or hopefully nottoo familiar way, but really the
idea is that God has more forus than we sometimes settle for

(10:47):
and we want to see the rest ofit.
What is it that he's offeringit?
And it's not a show, but it isa beautiful story that he
invites us into and transformsus.
So, yes, on one layer, I guessI'm the man pulling back the
curtain, exposing myself and mystory.
On another layer, I'm hoping topull back the curtain on the
man and share what he has forthe reader.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Now, you said in the prelude of the book that you
felt like a supporting actor inyour own life.
How did that realization changethe trajectory of your story?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Well, it's just a good question.
I think that when I look at mystory, it's wild and crazy.
Sometimes there's parts of itand you read the book, you know
that are like whoa, it's alittle nuts, and so it feels in
a sense like a movie that I'mwatching.
But I think the reason I saidthat is because over time, when

(11:38):
you step back and look back, youare like, oh, that was that
really me, and of course it isyou.
Whoever you are today sits onthe end of all the decisions,
all the experiences and thechoices that you've had and made
and so I.
That, I think, is what made mesay it.
But there was a point where Idid feel like an actor, where I
was almost like sucked in andgoing along and playing a part,

(12:01):
and I think what happened whenGod entered the scene is not
only, yes, did I now havesomeone to serve, but also had
more agency, because I had morefreedom and there's more choices
.
That became involved.
So I realized I wasn't thedirector, but maybe I had a
little bit more ability toparticipate and move things than

(12:22):
I thought I used to have,especially when I felt trapped.
Yeah, oh for sure.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Now, there's no really sugarcoating.
This your book.
It talks about addiction.
It talks about failed marriages.
It talks about loss.
It talks about deep pain.
What was the hardest chapter ormemory for you to revisit and
talk about in your book?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, I think that the hardest chapter
probably was dealing was chaptertwo, dealing with my father.
There were lots of other things, the whole act one on
brokenness.
It felt like every day I wasshowing up and just bleeding
onto the pages Like likesometimes I would feel numb
afterwards because I just kindof poured that out.

(13:03):
But you know, I get into thechapter that my dad died when I
was five and I was told it wasin a car accident.
And then, you know, later on mystepfather comes along and I
talk about some criminalmischief.
I got in at age nine and thathe then my stepfather took me
aside and says do you want to belike your father?
And then come to find out thatmy dad didn't die in an accident

(13:26):
.
He was with a friend thatinfluenced him and they started
robbing liquor stores.
My dad gets shot and killed andI can understand why my mom
didn't want to tell me that as afive-year-old.
But finding that out was hardand then finding that out from
this man that was physicallyabusive to my mom an alcoholic
that I hated was sort of adouble sting and I think writing
those things brought out a lot.

(13:48):
Now God's had to do a lot ofredemptive work in my life
because I grew up all my lifethinking I have no dad and
there's like all kinds of funkythings to deal with with that,
but then learning eventually Godis my father and what does that
mean?
To learn to have God as a father.
So there's been a lot ofhealing there, especially
becoming a dad, and that hasredeemed father's day in a lot
of ways, where now it's acelebration of my kids and being

(14:09):
a dad that I didn't have andthat I could be that for them.
But I would say that writingthat down and pouring that out
was difficult and hard.
But I felt it was importantbecause when I as when I share
my story, it's not just likecause I'm not famous, so it's
kind of weird that I'm sharingmy story.
But it was never meant to justtell my story.

(14:29):
It was helped invite people toshare their story and I know a
lot of people have grown upwithout a dad or with a dad that
wasn't present or there forthem in ways that they needed
them to be there, and it bringsup a lot of different baggage.
So each chapter brings updifferent facets of brokenness
that I'm sure someone can relateto at least something that's
connected in there.
But yeah, I'd say that wasprobably the hardest one.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
And I think that's what I loved about your book was
whether it's personal for youor you know somebody.
Each chapter did have somethingthat you could connect with.
You know somebody that theirfathers died or somebody that's
been in an abusive relationship,especially as a pastor.
Like, we see all these thingsand hear all these things and so
, like I, was able to relate toeach one, and some of them were
hard to read.

(15:10):
I mean, it's hard to read someof those things and and feel the
pain that you probably felt asa nine-year-old going through
some of that, making baddecisions, but then also having
this guy who's being abusivekind of tell you a secret in the

(15:31):
family that your mom probablyone didn't want you to know, but
two did not want you to findout that way.
But those things shape us.
I want to go back to somethingyou said earlier.
You talked about growing up inchurch but not really knowing
Jesus.
What did the journey of reallyencountering Jesus look like?
When did that happen for you inyour life?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
So when I was 11, I think something clicked for a
little while and it was justlearning about the Bible,
learning about Jesus, and therewere some real cool people in
the church my mom started goingto.
There were some really uncoolpeople too, and some people,

(16:19):
let's just say, that made itpersonally difficult for me to
connect to God, to church, andso I did pull away.
But I think when it came tocoming back, for me it was at a
place I too far gone.
Am I beyond redemption?
Can you work in this situation?
But I came to believe at a forkin the road that Jesus was
making himself visible andavailable to me and that I
didn't have a lot of otheroptions.

(16:39):
Now, I think that's.
By the way, I do recognize thatfor a lot of other people, it's
not that they have lots ofoptions, they have lots of other
places they can turn to.
But I still think you can findyourself with having a lot and
being broken in other areas ofyour life.
But for me, I came to thatplace of just total brokenness
and then just putting everythingin God's hands and saying I

(17:03):
can't do this anymore.
Will you help me?
Not knowing that he could.
But then I began to experience,as I took a step in his
direction.
I began watching him workmiraculously in my life, and it
wasn't just the external habitsthat I needed to change, but it
was the way I began to thinkdifferently, and that was a
process.
The way my heart began to beatdifferently and to feel

(17:26):
differently, and all that was aprocess.
The way my heart began to beatdifferently and to to feel
differently, and all that was aprocess.
But I could definitely feelthat there was some kind of I
don't know.
It was like spiritual pubertyor something.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Is that a?
Thing?
I just thought of that Like.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
But there's like strange things happening that
you're not really aware of.
But over time you're realizinghey, I'm going through changes.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
No, that's awesome.
Now you wrote in the book aboutseasons of relapse or even
seasons of regret.
What would you say to someonewho feels like they keep failing
, spiritually or evenemotionally?
They're in that pattern ofthey're trying right, yeah,
they're trying, but for somereason they just can't get past
this thing and they keep failingin the same place.

(18:03):
What would you say to them?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
First of all, beware of toxic shame, because that is
something we do, something wemake an attempt.
We say this time I'm going todo it.
God, I mean it, I'm reallysorry I blew it, I did that
thing again.
I went in this relationshipthat I said I was going to stay
away from whatever it is, and wemean it, I think, to stay away
from whatever it is, and we meanit, I think, to the best of our
ability.
And then we stumble, we fall,we get tempted, we make a dumb

(18:28):
choice, whatever the case is,and we find ourself in the mud
again.
And I think that the problem is, you know, there is a healthy
sense of shame where we say, oh,I feel bad and I don't want to
do that again, and it motivatesus to change our path, our
behavior.
But I think that toxic shamethe distinction that I would
make is you know, shame is I didbad.

(18:54):
Toxic shame is I am bad.
And I guess that would be myencouragement is not to go down
that path of I am this and thento define you, because God wants
to change your identity into avictor.
God wants to shape youridentity into an overcomer more
than a conqueror.
God wants to shape youridentity into an overcomer more
than a conqueror, and he's doingthat, but it is a process, I
guess, to that person.
I would encourage you to getback up.
I talked about at the leadershiplunch today about failing

(19:15):
forward.
So when you fail, what did youlearn from the process?
Take that away.
Evaluate, not just I'm sorry, Idid bad, okay, that's good.
What was it?
Were you hanging around somepeople that you shouldn't be
hanging around?
Have you kept some thingsavailable in your home that
makes access to whatever it iseasy?
Have you not set up safeguardsfor accountability?

(19:35):
Are you trying to do it on yourown, white, knuckling it versus
God?
Have you invited the rightpeople in to help you?
I think to really take sometime to evaluate what you did
and then to put in place anychanges, but the last thing you
want to do it's you know thedevil's strategy and I know it's
not a video podcast, but withone hand he's using it.
He's pointing and saying come,follow me, do this temptation,
and then, as soon as you do it,that finger turns to a point and

(19:57):
he's accusing you.
Look at you, you're worthnothing.
You're not a Christian.
How could you do this if youlove God.
I guess that would be some ofthe encouragement, because you,
as I mentioned in the book, Ifailed many times, relapsed many
times, by God's grace, beenclean many years now.
But it is a process.
I got kicked out of Calvaryhouse three times.
Had I given up at any of thosetimes, I wouldn't have the story

(20:18):
that I have today.
And so God works through peoplethat make mistakes and fail.
Look at the nation of Israel,right, how many times it's just
like it was my grandfather.
I mentioned my Pepe in there.
So it's funny.
I say, ask him, I'll tell yousome funny stories.
I'll tell you a funny story,since nobody will be asked, but
I'll tell you anyway.
He got a large print Bible.
It was like 80 years old and Icome over one day I say Pepe,

(20:39):
what are you doing?
He's like I'm reading the Bible.
He's got this Italian raspyvoice and he's like I'm going
through the Bible in a year.
I'm like how do you like it?
He's like, well, I'm in the OldTestament.
He's like you know, god tellsthe Jews what to do.
They do it for a little while.
Then they don't do it and theysin.

(21:00):
Then he kills them and thenthey start all over again.
That was synopsis of the OldTestament.
I was like, okay, well, that'sgood, pepe, but there's some
truth to it in the sense that,over and over again, god's
patient with them as they rebeland resist, and man isn't that
us.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, oh for sure.
So I want to talk aboutsomething a little bit different
than the content of the book,because this happens all the
time.
It happened to you.
Today, somebody finds out youwrote a book and you, in your
writing, you weave together fate, humor and vulnerability so
well, and so I want to talkabout the writing process for a
moment.
How long did it take you towrite this book, and how did you

(21:34):
know it really was the righttime?
You talked about that kind ofthat retreat you took and came
back, and how did you know whenyou started writing, yes, I need
to do this.
So how long did it take towrite?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
So the process of writing the book once I sat down
, I knew that I had some thingsthat summer that I had to take
care of with my girls and I knewthat when I got started I was
going to lock in.
So I didn't want to start untilI was ready to lock in.
So I started, probably end ofAugust, and it took me two and a
half months to write the roughdraft, which I think for you
that's long, for most writersthat's pretty quick.
And the reason is I showed upevery day and wrote for about

(22:15):
three hours.
I just I knew that my, my, my,my time to write is the morning.
That's when my peak creativityis, my energy, like if.
If I write in the afternoon,it's just a different product
that's going to come out of me.
And so I locked in and I didn't.
I took off the weekends becauseI just needed refresh time
Before I got going.
And I think this is a key ifyou're ever going to write is

(22:37):
have the skeleton ready, knowwhere you're going.
So, for example, the first halfof the book I outlined all the
chapters.
The second half, I outlined abunch because I knew that I was
going to do some thoughts, somepractices and tools to help
people overcome a lot of things.
But I also wanted to write moreof the story before I knew, oh,
I need to include this in there.

(22:58):
And so I had a lot of it, but Ididn't have.
I left some room to be creativeas time developed, but, yeah,
two and a half months, and thenafter that, went through the
editing process.
I don't know, man, sometimesworking with editors is tricky,
but that that took a while too,and so, but from the time that I
sat down to write until thebook was released was probably

(23:20):
eight months in total, and butthat's, that's boogieing, and I
know that people are going towork at different paces and
different ways.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, it's interesting.
When I started writing, Istudied a lot of writers John
Acuff was probably the one Istudied the most, and he had a
great format for writing stickynotes with all the chapters on
his wall and then puttingquestions under each one that he
wanted to answer and eventuallyjust grew into this huge wall
art.
If you will, so let me ask youthis, because I think about this

(23:48):
with writing and you and I haveobviously known each other
through this writing process,and so I wanted to ask you this
as you were writing, did thisfeel more like therapy yeah,
more like ministry, or more likeobedience?
How did you feel as you werewriting?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
It would depend on the day and the section of the
book.
Fair enough, yeah.
So act one felt like totaltherapy, with obedience to keep
moving when it was difficult,because it was that.
But it honestly felt like.
And honestly, when I got donewith act one, which is about the
first 25% of the book, I wasthinking am I ever going to
release this?

(24:23):
Or was this just like atherapeutic exercise for me and
I generally, because theintention was to release it?
But I was like I began towonder.
Then, as I got into act two andwent through the redemption
side, it was oh, wait a minute,not only is this therapeutic,
this is redemptive.
This is God's hand.
It's like showing off what hecan do.

(24:43):
Act one was the black background.
This is the diamond of God,taking a life and changing it
and glorifying him.
So that was helpful.
And then probably act threesecond half of the book was
ministry, because in thatsection I'm getting into things
that will help anybody.
Some are more tailored forcertain people, but it was like
really instructive things thatI've learned along the way that

(25:04):
I'm passing on to other people.
So it felt very ministry minded.
And I still include stories andthings because that's just kind
of.
I think it keeps it interestingas part of who I am and it
makes it relatable, but it feltvery ministry minded.
So I don't know, I don't know,how do you do you feel one way,
throughout as you're writing, Ifelt like the different moves
necessitated sort of differentvibes, if you will, or different

(25:26):
motivations in some ways.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, I would say very similar.
It depends on the chapter andthe book that I'm writing.
Like with Be Free, there weresome sections in there I tell a
story about my closet and that'sthe closet right there.
It's a sticky story and thatcloset, if you open it right now
, like stuff may fall out, likethat's just.
It has become the junk closet.
And I tell that story becausewe do that in our life, like we

(25:47):
store baggage.
Instead of getting rid of it ordealing with it, we just stuff
it away.
And I still do it like this.
This, all this junk in thefloor, is going to be in that
closet as soon as I get thenerve to open it.
But for me, as I was tellingthat story and I'm always
looking for illustrations itreally made me sit back and
think, oh man, like I've got alot of stuff that I've stuffed
away in my life and if I'm goingto write about this, I've got

(26:09):
to deal with it.
If I'm really going to continueon this journey with this book,
I've got to do some, someheartwork myself.
Otherwise this book meansnothing and it's lost the
passion.
That the reason I wanted towrite it.
Right, because you always wantto write for other people, but
God ends up using it for you.
Yep Right.
So one of the things that stoodout is how you speak directly

(26:32):
to the reader.
Your book felt more like aconversation than a monologue,
and so, as you're writing, whodid you have in mind for the
book, like who was your audience?

Speaker 2 (26:45):
your target audience.
As you were writing, I wrotefor two types of people and I
hope it connected.
You know how it is when you'repreaching you have a couple
people in mind.
One was for the Christian thatreally may.
You look at them and it's liketheir life is all together and
they look from outsideappearances you'd say
everything's fine.
I think God hopes for more thanfine in our lives, and so,

(27:08):
again, it's that idea of.
One of the things I say is youknow, in negotiating, you never
want to leave money on the table, and I feel like when it comes
to Jesus, people leave money onthe table.
I don't mean money, I mean whatJesus died for you, the
abundant life, which is not.
I don't mean prosperity, gospel, I mean abundance of soul,
quality, care, the things thathe wants to give in part into

(27:29):
your heart and your soul, and Ithink that there's more.
And so what the the?
The reason I wrote it, the waythat I did, is in act one is
with brokenness.
I am trying to, and even in theinterludes what did you think
about that?
What did you feel?
What's going on in your story?
What did it draw out?
What brokenness did that drawout in you and then in act two
hey, how have you seen God'sredemptive hand in your life?

(27:50):
What does that look?
And the reason I'm talking tothem is I'm glad if someone
thinks it's an interesting story, but if it's just an
interesting story, that I'vekind of failed them as an author
and what I'm trying to do isbring them along on a journey,
because the rest of the man'sshow is meant to tell your story
too, and I'm wanting to do that.
And so I was writing to thatperson.
But, man, I was definitely alsowriting to the very broken down

(28:11):
and out, maybe even someone farfrom God at the moment, or maybe
someone that does believe butis struggling much of the way
that you said.
And, like man, I've been on apath.
I hope that by sharing mybrokenness, it would encourage
them like, wow, okay, god didsomething like that through a
guy like this, then maybe hecould do something in my life
too.
And maybe, oh, even when Ishared my struggles with God,

(28:33):
maybe someone hasn't gonethrough addiction or something
like that, but maybe they lookand say, oh, how you laid that
out in chapter six about yourstruggles with God.
I had some of those same issuesand maybe that encourages them
to press deeper.
So I wanted to basically goafter the person that kind of
looks like they got it alltogether, but in moments of
difficulty and challenge theywould recognize there's more.

(28:56):
God needs to do more in my life.
And then for the person that is, absolutely there's no question
I am broken, I am a mess and Ineed this.
So I tried to thread both ofthose needles.
I don't know how well I did,but that was the goal.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
No, it was great.
So this book doesn't just tellthe rest of your story.
It gives hope that God is stillwriting ours, and that's one of
the things I love.
I tell people all the time wehave Celebrate Recovery Ministry
here on Sunday nights, sundayministry here on Sunday nights,
sunday mornings we have about1200 people that come to church
here.
Sunday nights for CR, we haveabout 200 people to come and,
honestly, sunday nights is oneof my favorite places to speak

(29:26):
because they know they're a mess.
Sunday morning we're hiding themess right, like we don't want
anybody to know we're a mess.
Sunday night they walk in.
They'll tell you their wholemess and I love your story
because I do think it connectswell with people that are ready
to admit all right, I am a mess,I have some things that I need
to work on and the reality isthat God is still writing our

(29:48):
story.
So let me ask you this what'snext for you?
More writing, speaking ministryprojects?
Where are you headed?

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Man, you asked a really good question because my
answer is I don't know.
So we won't get into that storytoday.
But, as you know, I've been ina season of transition, having
moved down here from Connecticutwith the church we pastored for
18 years, figuring out what Godhas next.
Right now I'm doing someconsulting with a church in Cape
Coral faith generation reallyloving, enjoying that, and
that's for a season.
I have some more speakingopportunities.

(30:16):
I'm speaking at this coolchurch called South Shore coming
up pretty soon.
So speaking at a few otherchurches, looking forward to in
June, heading up to WestHartford First time I'll be back
at the church we planted andspeaking there, looking forward
to that, going back to theTrinity encounter where that
first vision came from thissummer.
So I don't know what, god, Idon't want to put too high
expectations, but maybesomething's revealed.

(30:37):
But I'm really leaning inseeking what God has next.
I'm you asked hey, are yougoing to do another book?
Man, part of me doesn't want to, but part of me already has a
title and an outline for thenext book.
So we'll see how it goes withthat.
So I do enjoy that writingprocess, as strenuous and taxing
as it can be.
Sometimes I do find it helpfuland I may do that, but really

(30:59):
looking to see what God has next, and it may be a full return to
full-time vocational ministryin the pastorate.
It may be coming alongsideother churches and helping them
and seeing how I can do that.
So I guess that's more of aprayer at this point than an
answer, nick, because I don'tknow.
If God tells you something, letme know.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I'll let you know.
I'll let you know.
So where can people find thebook and where can people
connect with you online?

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Book is available on Amazon paperback, hardcover and
Kindle.
Talking about getting it out onAudible because enough people
told me, man, I don't read, canyou just read it to me?
So I'm working on that, butit's available in the other
three formats for now.
You can connect with me.
You, now you can connect withme.

(31:44):
You can go torestofthemanshowcom and that
will have all of my information.
I'm on Facebook, instagram,just about all the social
channels, and would love to hearfrom you, and in the back of my
book is my email address tobill at restofthemanshowcom.
So if you had any questions, ifyou work through the book or
anything encouraging you want toshare with me, I always love
hearing from people.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, and I had Bill on today, not only because he's
my friend, but when I read thebook I felt like man.
This could be a book that helpspeople.
So if you're in a season whereyou feel stuck, broken or
forgotten, the rest of the man'sshow is a reminder that God
still shows up and the bestscenes might still be ahead.
Bill, thank you for yourhonesty, your courage and your
heart and your friendship,excited to see what God does

(32:23):
next in your life and excitedfor people to grab this book.
Thanks so much for having me on.
Yeah, hey guys, hope you havean incredible week.
Share this podcast with someone.
Honestly, take a picture of hisbook if you buy it, share it on
social media and if you do readthe book, do me a favor, go on
Amazon, write a review.

(32:44):
It is what helps authors reachmore people, and this book is a
book that teaches people aboutGod, and so what more of an
important book to share thansomething like this?
I hope you have a great week.
We will see you next week.