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A freshman gets baptized by his friends. A mom weeps because her child—wounded by past violence—finally steps out to a church event. Teenagers run cameras, lead songs, read Scripture, and help with communion. The thread tying it together is simple and bold: there’s no junior Holy Spirit, and students don’t need a separate church—they need a real place in the church.
We sit down with Jordan Francis of Reframe Youth to unpack why intergenerational ministry is more than a nice idea; it’s one of the strongest predictors of a faith that lasts beyond graduation. Jordan shares how smaller and more diverse congregations often integrate students by necessity, and how that necessity becomes a discipleship advantage. We dig into practical systems you can replicate: use Wednesdays to build relationships and pathways, then launch students into Sunday roles—worship, kids, production, hospitality—where older saints mentor and teenagers contribute in meaningful ways.
If you’re in a large church, Jordan maps a smart playbook: don’t start with the senior pastor; partner with kids and next gen leaders to build a simple pipeline, gather stories and data, and expand from proof-of-concept to church-wide practice. Along the way, we talk about calling out gifts, coaching through the mess, giving teens language for hard days, and shifting Sunday from a show to a shared family responsibility. Expect sharp insights, field-tested tactics, and stories that will reshape how you see teenagers in your worshiping community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Brad Warren, and this is Beyond the Event, a
Youth Ministry podcast presentedby Christ and Youth, where we
help you maintain momentumbetween the mountaintops.
Our guest today is JordanFrancis.
I could not even begin to listhis entire resume to you.
He's uh works for anorganization called Reframe
Youth, which develops acurriculum for youth in urban
(00:25):
settings.
He's a youth pastor at a churchin the Dallas area as a
volunteer.
You'll hear a little bit aboutthat later.
But Jordan and I are going to beuh we are going to be finishing
up a conversation about theintentionality of student-only
spaces versus getting in studentstudents integrated into big
(00:46):
church by talking about thatlatter piece.
How do we get students involvedin intergenerational ministry?
Uh before we dig into that,though, it's story time.
Just a reminder that if you havea story that you want to share
with us because you think itwould encourage us or uh
challenge us in a specific way,type it up, email it to podcast
(01:06):
at CIY.com, and I will read iton a future episode.
Today's story comes for JeremyWelsh at Fern Creek Christian
Church in Louisville, Kentucky.
Hey CIY, just wanted to share acool story from Move This
Summer.
I've got a core group offreshman boys who were attending
their first move.
They've been friends for years,and they have a friend who
(01:27):
didn't go to church.
The first time he stepped footinto the church was when uh we
had a nerf war in January.
He had a great time, and hisfriends continued to invite him
to come back uh for church onSundays and groups on
Wednesdays, which he did.
This guy heard about move andknew that his friends were
going, so he signed up as well.
In fact, uh I was on the waitinglist until May and was able to
(01:51):
get a couple of my extra spots,one of which ended up being this
guy.
Sorry that you were on thewaiting list.
That's from me, Jeremy, not fromJeremy.
Okay.
By day three, uh, this young mancame and told me that he wanted
to be baptized.
When move was over, I met withthis young man along with his
three friends who had beeninviting him to church, bringing
him to church, and just beinghis friend to have a
conversation about baptism.
(02:12):
On Sunday, July the 6th, thisyoung man, Tyler, was baptized
by his three friends.
From January to July, God wasmoving in Tyler's life through
his friends, orchestrating it towhere I was able to get more
spots from the wait list so thatTyler could attend.
And through the speakers andenvironment and move, Michigan
2, and it culminated with Tylerbeing baptized.
(02:34):
Thanks for the role you allplayed.
Joined by Corey Klein, CIY'sdirector of Superstart.
How does that story make yourlittle heart feel, Corey?
I mean, that's the podcast.
SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
That's it.
That was crazy.
We're done.
I mean, well, Jordan's great.
I want that to Jordan still, butthat was really cool.
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Yeah.
Um, just kidding, just kids outhere changing the world.
Yeah.
You know?
SPEAKER_04 (02:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Freshman boys.
SPEAKER_04 (02:59):
Every day when you're having a bad day, just
think about what God is doingthrough students every single
day right now.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
In all seriousness, though, you you uh you carry the
flag for preteen ministry hereat Christ in you.
So from preteens all the way upto freshmen in high school, like
who else gives that group ofpeople like the amount of uh
responsibility and the amount ofopportunity that the church and
(03:28):
maybe more broadly just Jesusgives them.
You know?
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Like, there's nowhere else inlife where we're like, hey, um,
so you're surrounded by somepeople who uh don't love the
Lord and uh you're in charge ofmaking them aware that he loves
them.
It's like crazy stuff.
(03:50):
It's it's cool though.
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_04 (03:52):
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
All right, superstart is coming up fast.
Yeah, Brad, it is.
Are you gonna go to it?
I'll go to one.
SPEAKER_04 (04:02):
What about two?
SPEAKER_03 (04:03):
I'll go to two.
SPEAKER_04 (04:05):
How about three?
Maybe four.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (04:08):
Okay, I'll go to four.
Okay, great.
Uh, I am directing foursuperstarts this year, which is
a little crazy, but I'm lookingforward to it.
It's gonna be so fun.
How many people direct thatmany?
What how what are you directing?
SPEAKER_04 (04:19):
Uh I think four or five.
Yeah.
What am I doing?
Why have you asked me?
You walked into my office.
This guy, you if you know Brad,this is Brad.
Uh he walks into my office andsays, Corey, I want to go to
more.
That's what you said.
It was something like that.
I was like, okay.
That's you were mad at mebecause you went to two of them
last year, and you went to threethe previous year.
(04:41):
So I'm giving you four.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Four.
I get to go to Florida, I get togo to Richmond, Virginia, I get
to go to Omaha, Nebraska, I getto go to Nashville, Franklin,
Tennessee.
Yeah, man.
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
Yeah.
Uh, what are you looking forwardto about the tour?
SPEAKER_04 (04:59):
Um, honestly, I'm really excited.
This is probably every year, ifyou listen to the podcast every
year, it's like, oh, Corey saysthe same thing.
Here I am saying the same thing,and I'm really consistent.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
You're the king of consistency.
SPEAKER_04 (05:12):
I am.
I'm really excited about thescripture and the topic that
we're talking about thisupcoming year.
It's really cool how God plantsthe seeds and works through
children's and preteen and youthpastors as we have
conversations.
Like year a year and a halfbefore we even start working on
this about hey, what what do uhthese students need to hear
(05:32):
about?
And just, you know, in thisseason of life to talk about
what can I believe, who can Ibelieve, and that we can
literally lean into what Jesussays that he is the way, he is
the truth, he is the life.
I think there's nothing moreimportant right now.
And you talked about peopleworking with middle schoolers,
preteens, you know, before theevening of the high school.
This is foundational.
(05:53):
And so I'm really excited thatwe could do that with also the
superstar twist, if you've neverbeen, where there's silly games
and maybe a play, awesomeworship, and maybe a potato
coming back.
I don't know.
I didn't say a lot of people.
This is news to me.
Breaking news.
You're breaking actually.
I don't know.
You gotta come the superstar toknow if Gary the Potato is
(06:14):
coming back.
I I heard rumors.
Wait, do I get to do the VO?
Maybe.
Uh if Rob Watson is listening orwatching this, Rob, let me know.
I have no idea.
SPEAKER_03 (06:26):
Um, you want to hear a funny Michael Hester story?
SPEAKER_04 (06:29):
Please and thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (06:30):
So last year I did two voiceovers for uh
Superstart.
I did I was like the omniscientnarrator of the Gary videos.
And what else did I do?
SPEAKER_04 (06:42):
He also did our main films at the end, or claymation.
The claymation videos, that'sright.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
And I was talking to Michael after uh rehearsal week
or something, and Michael doesvoiceover stuff and he's great
at it.
He's phenomenal.
So I was like, Michael, what'dyou think?
And he goes, Man, I thought youdid a really good job on the
claymation videos.
You did great.
I didn't love your performancein the Gary videos.
SPEAKER_04 (07:07):
Michael, can you chime in on this?
Why what did you not like aboutthe Gary videos versus the
claymations?
SPEAKER_03 (07:12):
He didn't not like the Gary videos.
He didn't like my performance.
But your performance, that'swhat I'm asking.
My bad.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Yeah, I was gonna tell you exactly what I actually
said.
Maybe not like word for word,but like really there is a
spirit to what I said.
Okay.
That Brad left out.
Love it.
What is it to go for it?
I said it sounded like when yourecorded those, you were just
given a list of lines and youread each line in isolation.
(07:39):
Which is exactly what happened.
That's exactly what happened.
SPEAKER_04 (07:44):
My question, did you look at it before?
Like, were you like, I'm gonnalook at this?
I went in and I recorded myaudio, or was it like you are at
least once?
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
Rob sent it to me.
Yeah.
But it was like, I mean, you'rejust reading lines off of a
page, and you it's weird becauselike I don't know what the frick
Gary is gonna do next.
Like, I have no idea.
I don't know what this littleguy looks like.
Yeah.
And uh, so you're just likeimagining a potato saying
something back to you.
It's like vegetarian.
Like, how would I respond tothis potato if he was saying
(08:17):
this to me?
Yeah.
And it's just a weird headspaceto be in.
SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
Well, I don't know, man.
I don't know if Gary's comingback.
If he is, just be ready just incase I'll have to find out in
January.
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
You have my agent's number, so uh I actually do.
Yeah.
It's just me.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
It's him.
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
But I talk in a British accent when I'm my
agent.
SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
Really?
Can just really quickly, whatdoes it sound like?
Well, I'm not my agent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:40):
Yeah.
Uh okay.
I'm also excited for Superstart.
Yeah.
I'm infinitely more excited forSuperstart now that there's a
possibility that Gary might becoming back.
No, well, here's what I'll say.
If he doesn't come back, my lifeis ruined.
I'll say this right now on thepodcast.
Now that you've now that you'velike put that out there, if he
(09:01):
doesn't come back, I'm quittingmy job and I'm moving to a
remote island because I'll be sosad that I won't be able to bear
being in this building anymore.
SPEAKER_04 (09:09):
No, I'll make it a win-win for you.
If he comes back, great.
If he does not, I will get aGary the Potato tattoo on my
arm.
Okay.
Great.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Sounds good.
SPEAKER_04 (09:18):
So does that make you happy if he doesn't come
back if I get a tattoo?
SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
I mean, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:23):
Okay, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Would we be able to get an alternative revenue
stream for the organization ifwe maybe did like Gary the
Potato like cameo?
SPEAKER_04 (09:34):
Do you know Gary's agent?
I don't know.
Do you know Gary's agent?
I don't know Gary's agent.
I think it's Rob.
SPEAKER_03 (09:40):
Is it Rob?
I think it's Tripp.
I think it's Trip Watson.
Uh anyway, Superstar is going tobe an absolute delight.
We are very excited.
Uh, we have 17 events.
Yes.
Yeah.
17 events that people can go to,including we are back.
We are back in the mountain timezone.
SPEAKER_04 (10:03):
We are.
But where in the mountain timezone?
Phoenix, Arizona.
SPEAKER_03 (10:07):
That's right.
We're so excited to be at SunValley.
We haven't had a superstar atPhoenix since before COVID, I
believe.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:12):
We're actually so uh we are there, but the one that
it's on the website is actuallyat Central.
So we're at Central.
SPEAKER_03 (10:19):
I'm a big dumb dummy.
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_04 (10:21):
I'm just saying that so you know.
unknown (10:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:23):
We're at Central, so it's gonna be great uh in
Arizona.
Um so I cannot wait.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Yeah, if you're in Arizona, come hang out with us.
It's gonna be a blast.
Um, it's early, it's in Januarybecause you can do things in
January in Phoenix.
SPEAKER_04 (10:34):
I want it probably 65 degrees.
It's gonna be great.
I don't want to know what it'sgonna be like in Missouri.
Incredible.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
Yeah, um okay, we're gonna go talk to Jordan.
We're gonna have a greatconversation with Jordan before
we do that.
It's time for Mike Up.
Woo! With Mike.
Mike'd up with Mike, producerMichael.
He's here.
What do you have for us?
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
Hey, correct me if I'm wrong.
Corey is the one that suggestedthat name.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
I actually think that that might be true.
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
I'm pretty sure it's true.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
So everyone, we're in the presence of greatness.
Wow.
It does sound like Corey.
I remember the moment ithappened.
Um okay.
Here's what I think I would liketo maybe do um with this.
Um I I think I think every oncein a while it's nice to maybe
just like have a celebration ofhobbies.
(11:24):
Oh, okay.
Um and pretty sure Lauren islooking at me like like I'm a
child.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Well, she doesn't have hobbies.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Lauren literally looking at Brad.
SPEAKER_04 (11:39):
Does Lauren get to talk into that fourth mic?
Lauren has hobbies.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
Lauren is a very good uh soccer player.
Lauren loves hanging out withher friends.
Lauren loves being outside,going on hikes, and uh And she's
not having a good time, right?
SPEAKER_04 (11:53):
She's not having a good time.
Lauren also updates her friendson Instagram and like, here's
what I've done the last fourmonths.
One, two, three, four, five,six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
And it's great.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
Oh man.
This has been Lauren's favoriteday of recording the podcast, I
can tell.
Um anyway.
Um I I think I think Lauren alsoloves Chai.
Okay.
Lattes?
That's a hobby.
Yeah, that's a hobby.
Okay.
Yep.
Uh I will talk um a little bitabout a hobby that I have, um,
of the several that I have.
(12:22):
Um, but I also think it would benice to just hear about maybe a
couple of the hobbies that youguys have um and the things that
you enjoy about them.
So put your thinking caps on.
Oh, I've turned the caps you'recurrently wearing into thinking
caps.
I've got it.
I'm locked and loaded.
So let me let me talk just likereally, really, um, really
briefly.
Um for approximately a year andtwo weeks-ish.
(12:48):
I have been um on uh a journeywith one of my uh with one of my
hobbies that I started a yearand two weeks ago.
Um I am really into photography.
Um I have been for severalyears.
Um but last year I startedshooting um on film um and it
(13:09):
genuinely truly has been themost fun that I've had um uh
with photography.
It has been a blast.
And the thing um the thing thatI really enjoy about it is just
the way that it like slows medown.
It makes me like pause and thinkum and really take in my
surroundings um and all of thosethings.
And I think that it's just likea true blessing to get to have
(13:30):
um a hobby that um uh thatreally kind of puts me in a
place where I have to engagewith God's creation.
Um these are things that I'vesaid before, so it's like kind
of fresh on my mind.
Um actually I posted about it onInstagram, so like I wrote the
whole thing out.
Check it out.
Um this is just like a summaryversion of that.
(13:51):
But um it's I I just think thatI just think that these things
are um are a gift from the Lord.
I think it's nice to actuallysit and reflect on um those
kinds of gifts that the Lord hasgiven us.
I would love to turn this backover to you guys and hear.
Rob is sorry, Rob, what am Isaying?
Brad.
Sorry, I was thinking about Roba minute.
SPEAKER_04 (14:12):
We have said Rob's name a lot on this episode.
It's true.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Um Brad, I think, is just like ready to fire away.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
He is.
I'm I can be ready.
I mean, you were you it soundedlike you immediately knew.
Well, I didn't immediately knowbefore one.
SPEAKER_04 (14:26):
I just want to say, can we sit in the moment of like
your hobby really quick?
Is that fine before we talk?
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Well, I actually was gonna do the same thing.
SPEAKER_04 (14:32):
Yeah, can we can we talk about Michael really quick?
You're so talented.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
I have a Michael Hester original hanging above my
toilet.
I see it literally every day.
SPEAKER_02 (14:40):
I didn't know that's where you put it.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
What's the photo?
It's it's a picture of a scissortail flyer.
Scissor tailed flycatcher, whichis a bird that we have here in
the South Central United Statesthat is just absolutely
stunning.
It's sitting on a barbed wirefence uh next to I think it was
taken next to your house, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
I had just pulled into my driveway and stopped
when I saw it because I waslike, I don't want that to fly
away.
I'm gonna take a picture of it.
SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
And you did, and I love that picture.
And well, most of thephotography that Michael does is
a little bit more like urban inlike urban lighting influence
kind of thing.
Um, but he had that's not aslike I wouldn't have a picture
like that hanging in my house,but you've taken a few really
cool nature shots too, and thatwas one, and I was like, I have
(15:24):
to have that picture.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_04 (15:27):
That's literally you're so good at it.
Please keep taking more photos,and people should see more of
your work.
And I'm not I'm I know you didnot want this, but people should
buy your work.
Your work is great.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
At Michael's Neology on Instagram.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Yep.
Go check him up.
He'll he'll print you a print.
Thanks for the shout.
I do sell prints.
SPEAKER_03 (15:47):
It's great.
Brad, what about you?
Um, my hobby is fly fishing.
And it's funny because I was Iwas listening to you talk about
it.
I was like, this is the samething.
Like all of the reasons are thesame.
Yeah.
Like it forces you to slow down.
You can't do it and have yourphone in your hand.
Uh you're you are in the middleof of God's creation.
(16:10):
You're in in tune with likeyou're in tune with nature, but
you also have to be in tune withlike the ecosystem.
Like, I don't want to nerd outtoo much about it, but you gotta
know like what aquatic insectsare in the water and what phase
they're in, and how what are thetrout eating, and um, you know,
like how do I present this in away that is similar to the way
(16:33):
that it would appear in nature?
And um, it's just really cool.
I've learned so much about bugs.
I've learned so much about fishand um fly fishing.
I I was raised doing a littlebit of like lip ripping bass
fishing, which is just likedifferent like it's just faster
(16:55):
and more aggressive, and youknow, um fly fishing is very
slow, it's very uh metronomic,it's very deliberate.
That's a word.
Uh I don't know if that is aword, but everyone will know
what it means.
Yeah.
Um and I when I have a bad day,I I plan my next fishing trip.
(17:19):
I say, okay, I need to get inthis headspace in order to feel
better.
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
I love it.
Mine is like the opposite of youtwo.
You both are like peaceful,patience.
Uh I like to play the drums.
That's maybe the opposite ofthat.
Um, but it is peaceful to me.
Um I've been drumming honestlysince I was five, but the last
year I've been wanting to get Idrum for my church and whatnot,
but like I actually continue toget better, and I find a lot of
(17:47):
just I don't know, joy in that.
And I have not owned a drum setin like 12 or 13 years, and I'm
going to buy one and just put itin my house and make my
neighbors get really mad at me,but that's okay.
And your wife.
Well, no, my wife wants me toget one.
I've been saying no.
She's like, please get drum set.
I want you the drum.
Like, my wife's been pushing forit.
Hannah, you're amazing.
Shout out to Hannah.
And so I think we love Hannah onthis podcast.
(18:09):
She's great.
She's great.
She's great.
Uh, and so she's beenencouraging in that.
And I'm all I'm actually the onethat's like, I don't want to be
annoying.
I don't, but she's like, no, Ithink this is a gift and
something that you enjoy doing.
It gives you peace and joy.
So drumming.
But it's not the other two.
It's very loud.
It's very loud.
SPEAKER_03 (18:26):
Like my voice.
Uh this was a delightfulconversation.
Thank you, Michael.
SPEAKER_04 (18:32):
Um, that was also I put my hat on, by the way.
You said put on your and I'lltwist it back around.
SPEAKER_03 (18:37):
You didn't rally cap it though.
Uh but yeah, now that we've donethat and I'm in a delightful
headspace, I think it's timethat we go and talk to Jordan.
All right, Jordan Francis, Iunderstand that you are uh
passionate about gettingstudents involved in what we
(19:02):
would typically call big churchadult ministries um and kind of
integrating them into thosespaces.
Is that true?
Yes.
I thought so.
Okay, great.
Okay.
So we're just gonna start thisconversation in the easiest
place to start it, which is Iwant to know where that comes
from.
Why is this something that youcare about?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I think it comes from acouple of things.
Number one, the research, right?
So the research talks about kidsleaving the faith, what is it a
million, a million students ayear right now?
Something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:38):
You would know better than me, but like that
wouldn't surprise me, which iscrazy.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
It's it's something it's something astronomically
ridiculous.
Um, and so what like what'sgonna turn the tide on that?
Like, what are the things thatactually keep kids in the faith,
in relationship with God, inrelationship with his people, in
relationship with uh the localchurch?
Um, couple things, one of thembeing having relationships with
(20:02):
other adults outside of theirparents that are faith forming,
right?
And so how else is that gonnahappen other than
intergenerationally, right?
And intergenerationally in thelocal church context.
And so I think it's one thing tohave adults be a part of the
youth ministry, which isabsolutely absolutely necessary
(20:23):
and needed.
Like sure, everybody loves youngadults showing up, they connect
really well with students, it'sawesome.
But at the same time, havingthose older, wiser, you know,
grandparents and you know, ummothers, fathers in the faith,
so to speak, showing up andsharing wisdom and building
those types of relationshipswith students is essential.
(20:44):
But then to have it outside ofthat context too, in main
service, big church, whateveryou want to call it, is really
important.
Um and what's interesting is insmaller churches, and then also
in churches that are um moreblack and brown, just to be
frank, those things are alreadyhappening, and then they happen
(21:04):
by necessity, right?
And in those contexts, I thinkwe're actually seeing people
leave and not come back at asmaller number because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:18):
Okay, can we can we like dig into that a lot?
That is one of the mostinteresting things ever.
Because I go I I go to a churchthat is capital W white.
Like we live in the middle ofMissouri, and like there's not
there's just I mean, that isthis the that is life.
(21:40):
We don't have a ton of diversityhere.
So I'm really interested to hearyou say that like churches that
do skew a little bit morediverse, a little bit more so
some, I'm sure you're referringto African-American churches and
all these types of things, likeI think it's partly because of
like culture, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
And so like we have to we have to get into the cult
conversation of culture, theWest, what do we value?
We value privatization, we valueindividualism, right?
And so in our in our largerchurches where there's a lot of
resource, what we tend to do isindividualize, privatize
everything.
And we do that with ministries,right?
Like the reality is hey, uh,everybody doesn't want crying
(22:18):
babies in service, and everybodydoesn't want kids running around
making a bunch of noise, theywant to hear what the pastor has
to say.
So let's spend a bunch of moneyto put the kids where we're
gonna put them, right?
And once again, I'm not sayingthere isn't benefit to that, but
in everything there'strade-offs.
So, what are the trade-offs thatwe're talking about?
And so I think in that, right,we're seeing some some of the
(22:40):
lack of these intergenerationalrelationships, and as a
consequence, um, I think that'scontributing to us seeing kids
leave the faith, right?
Because once again, we'vealready we've already
established thatintergenerational relationships
are necessary to help keep kidsin the faith post-high school,
right?
And so in churches that aresmaller, number one, you have
(23:01):
less resource, so you can'toutsource those things.
Like you don't have a full-timeyouth pastor, you don't have a
full-time kid pastor.
Like in my church, there's 150people, I'm the volunteer youth
and young adult pastor.
Right?
Yeah, there isn't the resource.
So, and what the super dopething, too, is like our kids are
because of that, and alsobecause I think it's essential,
(23:23):
our kids are heavily involved.
They're on the worship team onSunday morning, they're working
all the media stuff, they'rehelping create media stuff,
they're working in kids.
And I'll be honest about thistoo.
I've worked at one of thelargest mega churches in the
country, and they have studentsdoing a bunch of stuff too,
which I also think is superessential.
Kids are they're serving inkids, they're refereeing soccer
soccer games for the repprograms, they're coaching
(23:46):
teams.
They can actually be assistantcoaches and helping their
parents coach teams.
So, you know, a kid's in eighthgrade and he's helping his dad
coach a fourth grade soccer teamor pre-K soccer team or
whatever.
Like, I think all of thosethings are essential for kids to
remain in the faith.
So I wouldn't say it's everysingle large church, right?
And every single small churchthat's getting it right.
(24:06):
I think just generally speaking,when we look at some of the
principles that shape thoseenvironments, I think we can
learn some things.
And one of those isintergenerational ministry or
intergenerational connections isessential for youth.
And I think it's gonna keep themin the faith.
And um yeah, it's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
So um I'm sorry, I'm like jumping in so much.
Whenever you want to interruptme, you just interrupt me.
You're good.
I was gonna say something, butyou're you're on.
Okay, no, you go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (24:32):
Well, I just going off, Jordan, as we're on that
talk, but you know, as wecontinue through this, uh when I
think of this topic of like whatit looks like for students to be
in the congregation in mainservice, big church, whatever
you want to call it, a lot oftimes my first like thought is
this is really good for them asyou know, as they go through
high school, go into college tonot slip through the cracks for
them to be a part of the uh thecongregation.
(24:55):
But also I've seen it like I Ilook past back to the summer,
like as I'm at my churchworshiping and seeing these high
school college students comingback from things like CIY move
or whatnot, whatnot, with withthis fire uh for Jesus to
worship and they're sitting inthe room, it's also an
encouragement to the wholecongregation.
You know, it's like not only forthem as they are there, but also
(25:17):
for those who are older.
So I was just curious what yourthoughts on that.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
Yeah, 100%.
I think we should definitelycapitalize on that energy, you
know.
Um, and I think it it it likewhen you see young people
passionately worshiping theLord, man, like it does
something to you, you know,whoever you are.
If you if you love Jesus, itdoes something to you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:37):
So there's messages of mutual benefit.
We can all like we all, yeah,yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
But I but I think once again, even to take it a
little bit further, like there'sno junior Holy Spirit.
Like this this idea that welike, and whether it's implicit
or explicit, we separate thembecause they're different and
they don't have as meaningfulthings to contribute.
I don't think that's true.
Like I've heard incrediblyprofound things come out of
(26:06):
junior hires' mouth.
Like God is speaking through youright now, to me in my life, and
speaking to something that youdon't even know that He's
speaking to.
And so I think we just have thisidea that like junior hires and
high schoolers have very littleto offer a congregation, and and
(26:26):
the same with kids as well, andthat's why we kind of like put
them off to the side.
And I think that in some casesthat's explicit, most cases
implicit.
But I think they have a ton tooffer.
I think they should be on thestage leading the worship.
I think they should be given thecall to worship if your church
does that.
They can be reading thescriptures, they can be helping
with communion.
Like we did uh um studentSunday, and you know, I had one
(26:48):
of our students help leadcommunion post-service.
You know what I'm saying?
We put a video together, we hadkids, students lead in worship,
the whole team, the wholeworship team was students, and
it was super dope.
But I'm like, why does it haveto be student Sunday?
Why can't that be every Sunday?
You know what I mean?
Why can't they be just asinvolved every week?
Um, because I think once again,they have something meaningful
to contribute to the body ofChrist, right?
(27:10):
Like Paul said it, Ephesians 3that we would comprehend the
height, the length, the depth,the width of Christ's love with
all the saints, not some, all ofthem.
And so when I get together withall of the saints and I see my
brothers and sisters who areeight years old and can teach me
about the faithfulness ofwalking with God through
suffering and illness and painand all the jobs that they've
(27:30):
lost and all the wars thatthey've they've seen happen, and
yet they still love and serveJesus.
But then I also can see myteenage brother or sister in
Christ who's passionate aboutthe Lord, preaching the gospel
at their high school campus, orhaving hard conversations with
their friends, standing up fortruth in their high school,
whatever it may be.
And I can be encouraged by thattoo.
And so I just think we'remissing something when we
(27:51):
diminish what high schools andjunior hires have to offer to
our congregations at large.
SPEAKER_03 (27:56):
Yeah, I agree with you, which is obviously like a
super big part of CIY's Yeah, Imean, it's right there in our
mission statement, like thiscall to Kingdom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So um, like philosophically,obviously, like I love where
you're at and where you're kindof leading us.
Um, I do want to talkpractically for a second, just
(28:20):
like if I'm a well, let's say afamily, mom and dad, and their
seventh grade kid strolls intoyour church for the first time,
somebody connects them with you,hey, this is our youth pastor,
they say, Hey, we'd really loveto get involved in the youth
ministry here.
What does that practically looklike?
(28:42):
Like what is that student goingto experience?
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
At our youth ministry, yeah, in particular?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, on a Wednesdaynight, man, we're just focused
on building relationships,having conversations, eating
together, having some funtogether.
It's nothing crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (28:58):
Nothing's that a special per se.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Is that just students?
Yeah, on a Wednesday night, it'slike it's high school and junior
high and adults.
So we still have that Wednesdaynight experience.
I wouldn't say that we would getrid of that.
And obviously, once again, I'min the state of Texas, so uh
getting rid of a Wednesday nightwould be like sacrilege, right?
Exactly.
Yeah, so that's that's heresy,blasphemy, you know what I'm
(29:22):
saying?
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
But yeah, so like you're you're trying to be more
protective of like Sundaymornings as this intentionally
intergenerational space.
So what what um like are you areyou using Wednesday nights as
(29:44):
like a catalyst to push studentstoward like getting involved on
a specific volunteer team or uhyou know joining a certain group
or or whatever that may be?
Like how does that how does thatpathway work?
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah, that's that for sure.
So the cool thing is once again,I think, and I think this kind
of this is the thing aboutsmaller churches.
A lot of this stuff is bynecessity.
Yeah.
Right.
And so it's like kids servingstudents because they have to.
There's no one else to serve.
Right.
But there's also this reality oflike you've accidentally
stumbled into something.
(30:20):
And so I'm having theseconversations with my pastor.
Like, yo, as we're growing, wehave to make sure that this
stuff does not get pulled out ofthe DNA.
We need to make sure this ourstudents are still doing the
same things that they were doingbefore.
And maybe it's even a situationwhere if we've got other people
who want to volunteer, maybe ourstudents are helping train some
of those people to fill some ofthose roles that our students
(30:41):
have been filling.
Um, it's about giving themownership, about giving them
opportunity to lead, toencourage, all those different
types of things.
And so before I got there, thiswas already a part of the
culture, whether that be onpurpose or by accident.
And now it's like, okay, as wecontinue to grow, how do we
fight for that not to change?
And here's why it's essentialfor this not to change.
(31:02):
So as the church grows, if theLord wills for it to grow, then
I'm gonna be like, yo, we can'tchange this about a
congregation.
Who cares if we've got, well, Isay who cares?
It may be great that we've gotthese other people that want to
serve, but at the same time,what I don't want to do is for
us to like now malign our youngpeople and say, hey, we don't
need you to do that anymore.
Hey, you don't you don't have toshow up and be a part of this
(31:24):
anymore.
And we want them to be a part ofit as much as we want our adults
to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
100%.
And so I think it would looklike them showing up on uh a
Wednesday night, buildingrelationships, getting to know
the church, their familybecoming comfortable, them
becoming comfortable.
And then as as as they'regrowing and coming on Sunday
mornings, they're gonna seeother youth, other youth on the
cameras, other youth um hangingout in kids' ministry, serving
(31:50):
together.
And I think if you've gotrelationships and you're hanging
out with those people, you'regonna end up doing what they do
kind of by osmosis.
So if your homie who you'veconnected with on Wednesday
nights serves in second grade onSunday morning, you might be
like, well, I'm just gonna gohang out with him in that room
and serve then.
SPEAKER_03 (32:07):
So we're we're talking a lot about the student
side of this, where it's like,hey, we're yeah, we're trying to
drive students to serve, um, andthey're seeing their friends
serve, which is gonna make themwant to serve, and they have to
serve because we're a smallchurch, and that's all great.
Have you had to do, and theanswer to this may be no, I'm
not trying to lead you anywhere.
I genuinely am curious.
Have you had to do any legworkwith the adults in your church
(32:32):
to like get them used to theidea that like students are
going to be involved at a highlevel in what's going on in the
church?
Uh no.
That's just like part of theDNA.
Okay.
Absolutely.
What would your then then I'mgonna put you on the spot?
What would your encouragement beto somebody who is not a part of
(32:54):
a small church plant and um ispart of a very established
culture?
And uh maybe those thosepathways aren't there yet, and
there's gonna have to be somework getting done.
How would you like encouragethat person?
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Yeah, I would so the way I would start is, and this
is just me off the top of myhead thinking about it.
When you work at a large church,right, convincing the the lead
pastor or something is like,let's just keep it, call it what
it is, dang near impossible.
So don't even start there,right?
I'm not even starting withleadership, I'm starting with
the people that I'mcollaborating with in next gen.
The chances are there's kidspastor or multiple kids pastors,
(33:35):
and then there's middle schoolguy, high school guy, young
adults, whatever.
So we'll be like, okay, let mego to my kids' ministry person,
start chopping up with them, andbe like, hey, what would it look
like for us to have a littlepipeline going where maybe we're
training some of our studentsand they're coming and serving
in some of your classrooms andfilling in some gaps?
Right.
So I would start there.
So now I'm I'm into proof ofconcept.
(33:56):
Let me make this work, let mecome up with a system, let me
come up with a methodology, letme come up with a training
process in collaboration withsomebody they already work with.
Let's prove the concept and thenlet's expand the concept.
So once I prove it and I get apipeline, now I can go to other
people and say, hey, this isalready working here.
Here's the benefit of it.
We're seeing our students getplugged in, growing their faith.
(34:16):
Let's let's figure out how to dothis with you too, right?
Because now you've got socialproof so you can get more
buy-in.
And then once you've got buy-inacross next gen, you can be
like, hey, Pastor, look at whatwe did, look at what we figured
out.
This is something we shouldchampion across the church.
Look at how this is affectingthe way that we do next gen
ministry.
Then it becomes more of a thing.
unknown (34:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
You know what I'm saying?
And instead of, hey, we, youknow, hey, we got to do this and
we got to throw money into it,like that's just it's not gonna
happen.
So that's how I would start it.
I would start it at the pace ofrelationship with the people
that I already work with andcollaborate with them to figure
out how we make this thinghappen.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
Yeah.
It's funny because um you'reyou're yeah, I mean, you're
speaking my language in a l in alot of ways, but it's like um
the senior ministerrelationship.
I'm wondering how like well, letme let me back up a little bit
(35:13):
and say it, say it kind of thisway.
I feel like if you do it the waythat you're describing, it's
gonna it's it's the right way todo it.
It's gonna take a little bit oftime, right?
And you're gonna have to investquite a bit over a long period
of time in order to kind of likebe able to see some fruitfulness
of this.
But by then, I feel like youalready will have accumulated a
(35:34):
pretty significant little amountof data to show that like, hey,
service makes faith sticky forkids as they're like jumping
into the to the next phase.
And um yeah, I'm curious howyou've seen that play out in in
in your context.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
Yeah, I mean, so where just to give you context,
where I am at, I've been backhere a year, right?
So all of it's still really newin terms of where I am at
specifically right now.
Okay.
Um but what I can say is like,for example, so the guy who who
is my intern who I'm training tobe the youth pastor, he's been
(36:16):
at the church since he was born,pretty much, from my
understanding.
Or no, not that's not true.
The church has been open 13years, he's been there since the
beginning.
There was another church beforethat that he was connected to
family, AG stuff.
And so um he's come through theranks, he's serving, and now
he's gonna be the youth pastor,and he's been serving us this
(36:37):
whole time.
Another guy who's a volunteer,he's been serving since he was
in high school, he's in collegenow, still shows up every
Wednesday as one of the mostconsistent volunteers.
And so that's just two peoplethat I'm thinking of off the top
of my head that have beeninvolved in this thing since
they were, you know, whatevergrade it would be at 12 years
old.
SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
Yeah, and or younger, and they're they're now
like anchors, fundamentalanchors in the church.
They serve in worship, theyserve on Wednesday nights, they
they serve in all differenttypes of capacities, doing all
different types of things.
Like our church wouldn'tfunction properly without those
two individuals.
I can tell you that for a fact.
SPEAKER_03 (37:14):
Well, and it's like that's a difficult conversation
if you identify somebody in yourchurch who you feel like is high
capacity who hasn't been on thatjourney, and you walk up to them
and you're like, Hey brother,how would you feel about
becoming the youth pastor here?
It's like, whoa, okay, that'sradical, that's weird.
(37:34):
Um, but like it feels like itwould almost be natural or like
it was a natural progression forthis um young man, woman, I
don't know, guy or girl.
Dude, name's Caleb.
He's super cool.
For this young guy to shout outto Caleb to like uh work his way
into this position, which Ithink is really neat and
(37:56):
addresses another issue, whichis just that like churches can't
find people to hire now.
Like there's a huge shortage ofof pastors, and so the fact that
you have this system set upwhere it's like, hey, we're able
to get kids serving from a veryyoung age, put them on a
trajectory where they're able todiscover their giftedness and
(38:17):
how that plays out in thecontext of the local church, and
then we're able to like see thatcome to fruition when we hire
them on and they become part ofthis like team.
That's really neat, man.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
And the truth, and just to be clear, it doesn't
always work.
So like fair.
But I'm just I just want to be,I just want to keep it a stack,
like it's messy, it's alreadybeen messy for me.
Like I I literally um allowed astudent, am I gonna go into too
much detail, obviously, alloweda student to teach a sermon, and
then a couple weeks later,something very, very
(38:48):
catastrophic happens.
And no one's dead or anythinglike that, but something
happened, and it's like, yo, youknow what I'm saying?
And so once again, like whenyou're getting involved with
students and you see the call,and like I see the call of God
on students' lives in our youthministry, and I'm calling it out
like, yo, God has called you tosomething.
Like, I like you have this gift,I can see it in you, I can see
(39:10):
you use it, I can see theinfluence you have, I can see
how well you communicate.
You're I can you can sing allthese different types of things.
And so I think in the context ofour youth ministries, like we
should be constantly calling outand encouraging students to be
thinking about ministry as apossibility of something that
God has called them to.
Because um, I mean, CIY did anincredible job this summer, like
(39:34):
pointing to that reality thatmost people get into ministry
because someone told them thatthey saw something in them that
they didn't see in themselves.
And then they start exploringand investigating that and
recognize, like, yo, maybe Godhas called me, maybe he has
asked me to use these gifts.
And part of the way thatstudents are gonna figure that
out is for you to give them theopportunity to figure out if
(39:55):
they have that gift or not.
What better place to do it thanin youth group?
Yeah.
What are we waiting for?
What am I in the pulpit for?
Yeah, no, bro.
I need I need you up therepreaching.
I need you guys up there leadingworship, I need you guys leading
small groups, I need you guysleading your friends to the
faith.
I just need to be there tofacilitate and help you navigate
challenges and navigatechallenges in your own life.
SPEAKER_03 (40:16):
Like, I yeah, and to your earlier point to like just
encourage, because that's notsomething that's like naturally
like I don't know that a lot ofstudents who could do a really
good job teaching a lesson thinkto themselves like, I know what
I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna ask if I can teach alesson at a church.
It's like, no, not at all.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:36):
Jordan, I'm curious talking about you know, seeing
something in a student, talkingabout what God has in store for
them, seeing a giftaccountability.
Talking about them volunteeringin your church there um in
Texas.
If you think they're the thefaces, the people that you see
day in, day out, or on Sundays,Wednesdays at your church, is
there a good majority of themwhere it's like you or other
(40:58):
leaders at your church said,Hey, I see this in you, and
that's why they're volunteeringand they're jumping in?
Or are there also students whocame to you who are like felt
like, hey, I I feel like I cando this?
Like, does that make sense?
I'm just curious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
I I even had one student come to me and be like,
Hey, I can't not one.
SPEAKER_04 (41:14):
Okay.
unknown (41:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
But when I'm like, hey, uh next Wednesday, you're
leading worship.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hey bro, get out of here.
SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
You know.
unknown (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
Like, what are we doing?
I'm here in ministry, notbecause I was like, I think this
would be a good idea, butbecause somebody else uh who had
the Holy Spirit uh said, Hey,maybe this is something that you
should think about doing.
I don't know where I would be ifhe had not said that to me,
truthfully.
I mean, maybe God would havestill found a way to get me to
where I am now, but you know, Idon't know.
(41:49):
He definitely used that.
SPEAKER_04 (41:50):
I think that just echoes the importance of what
you guys talk about then to towhen you see something, whether
you're an adult leader, pastorat your church, a parent,
brother, sister, whatever it is,who's he sees this to the
actually point it out.
Yeah, that's huge.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Yeah, I mean, it just it comes down to on some
level, what do we think thechurch is?
What do we think youth group is?
To me, youth group is thiscommunity coming together of
young people trying to discoverwho they are, trying to discover
what it means to follow Jesus,what he's called them to.
And I I need to create anenvironment where they can
answer those questions.
And part of answering thatquestion, those questions is
(42:26):
like, what gifts do you have andhow are you gonna offer them to
the local body?
And so there has to be space forthem to discern what those gifts
are, which I don't know anyteenagers that can discern their
own gifts.
That is very rare, if happens atall.
So, like it's gonna take us asadults calling out what we see
in them and telling them that webelieve in their ability to
(42:47):
hone, craft, develop that skill,and then giving them opportunity
to do it, right?
It's gonna take that and thenthe same thing in the local
church context, because that'swhat we do with adults, right?
Like we give them opportunitiesto serve, we train them, we
challenge them, we encouragethem, we do the same thing with
with young people and give themthe opportunity to do that in
the large church context aswell.
(43:08):
Because once again, there's nojunior Holy Spirit.
If they're in Christ, then we'reall in Christ.
And the reality is we read thegospels.
Who did Jesus use to flip theworld upside down?
A bunch of teenagers.
You know what I'm saying?
So um, yeah, I think it's it'spretty self-evident.
Revivals, when the where dorevivals happen?
They don't happen at old folks'homes, you know what I'm saying?
(43:30):
They're happening in incolleges, right?
They're happening with youngpeople, and so we need to create
spaces for young people to likehone and express and and and
develop their gifts.
And it's yeah, man, I thinkabout one of the prayers the one
of the prayers that I pray formy son is God, use my son to do
(43:50):
things that you couldn't use meto do.
Because I got saved at 20 yearsold, had already been walling
out, already done a bunch ofstuff, already defollowed my
mind and heart in ways that Ihave to still work through to
this day, 15 years later.
And I'll probably have tocontinue to work through for the
rest of my life because thereare just decisions that I made
that I can't take back.
(44:12):
But my my son hasn't made thosedecisions, right?
Praise God.
I mean, he's 10.
And like we had the sex talk theother day, and he's like, I
don't even know what you'retalking about.
Like, what is that?
That's weird.
Why are you talking why are youtalking to me about this, man?
What's wrong with you?
That you do what?
What the heck?
So, but I'm like, praise Godthat you don't know what that
(44:34):
is.
Because when I was your age, Idid know what it was.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying?
And so what the reason I'msaying this is because I think
if we're gonna, if, if, what ifwe took these junior hires and
high schoolers who are yet to bedefiled by the nonsense or yet
to be corrupted by social media,and we said, yo, let's get your
(44:56):
time, time, attention focused onthe things of God and growing in
what he's called you to, andlet's let that be the thing that
has your affection andattention, not social media or
whatever else.
And let's see what God can useyou to do because you're on fire
for him instead of on fire forInstagram or TikTok or whatever
other nonsense there is outthere.
(45:17):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, you're just we're just notcreating avenues for those types
of things to happen.
It's like, yeah, be distractedby your phone.
Yeah, be on be on, yeah, do allthat stuff that kids do.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
You bring up uh social media, which I think is a
really interesting kind ofoverlay to all of this or
context, all of this, maybewould be a better word, but um
like students are so uhstimulated and so like
entertained all the time rightnow.
Do you find that when studentswalk through the doors of your
(45:50):
church that you're having topush back against like a
consumerist kind of nature inorder to get them to a place
where they want to hop in?
Or do you feel like they walk inlike looking for something
different and they're rare andready to go?
SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
Um that's a good question.
I think where I'm at it varies.
So I think some days they'redown to hop in and other days
they're not interested.
I think it can depend on manythings for varying reasons.
Um I think it's our job to likenavigate that and continue to
cur encourage them.
(46:28):
Like I give you an example, likeone time there's a there's a
student who has a ton of gifts,and he walks in and he's just
like hella moody, right?
And I'm like, yo, you good?
He's like, Yeah, yeah.
And obviously he's not, right?
Yeah, and he's like, I can tell,like, you're not gonna engage
(46:48):
today, and it's all good.
But I'm like, yo, it's obvious,it's obvious that you aren't
good today.
It would be better for you justto say, I'm not good, leave me
alone.
So then he says, Hey, I this wesay it's like all right, I'm not
I'm not in a good spot rightnow, leave me be.
Okay, cool, got you.
Appreciate you being honest.
But what am I doing?
I'm moving him, I'm moving himtowards a different way of
(47:10):
thinking about things.
I'm moving him towards asituation where he recognizes he
can come into the church and bewho he is that day, what's going
on with him, he can express itand maybe he can get to the
point where we can have aconversation about it, which is
ultimately more of what we want,right?
And so, like, I want our youthspaces to be, or our youth space
in particular, to be a placewhere these kids can come with
whatever they're feeling on thatday, whatever they're struggling
(47:31):
with, whatever they're wrestlingwith, and it be a space where
they can express those things.
If it derails conversation, ifit takes us away from the thing
that I had planned, so be it.
That's where we need to go.
That's where we need to go.
That's what we need to diveinto.
That's what we need to diveinto.
If that's what the Lord has forus that day, so be it.
I'm cool with it.
Um, but once again, I want it tobe more a space where they can
(47:53):
come and figure stuff out, comeand share stuff, come and
express stuff and have biblicaltruth speaking into them spoken
into them as a consequence.
And so I think it but it varies.
Like some days they come in andthey'll they're wanting to
serve, wanting to contribute,wanting to, you know, help clean
up after service, wanting totear stuff down, wanting to
contribute.
And other days, like, you know,they're trying to get on get in
(48:14):
the car as soon as mom shows up,you know, they're on their phone
the whole time.
And they're not trying to getfor because they're not trying
to engage.
SPEAKER_01 (48:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:21):
But when I think about it, I'm like, am I any
different?
I'm not.
You know what I'm saying?
When when when when I don't wantto talk to my wife, do I get on
my phone and act like I'm busy,or stare at the TV, or read a
book, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:38):
Or just work later so we don't have to talk.
You know what I mean?
Like, I I'm guilty of the samethings.
It's just I get I get you knowmad at them in ways that I
really shouldn't.
Like I'm expecting them to bebetter than me.
SPEAKER_03 (48:51):
Yeah.
It's kind of crazy.
But I think even what you'retalking about and like giving
them language to like givingthem a way to even acknowledge
what they are feeling ratherthan feel like, hey, I've got to
put on the mask or whatever isis a big deal too.
So um we are going to start theprocess of landing this plane.
(49:12):
And I know that Corey is a verythoughtful person, so I want to
make sure that I give him plentyof leeway in case he has
anything else he wants to ask orsay.
Um so I just want you to knowwe're headed.
The flaps are flapping.
But the wheels are the wheelslike the the wheels don't have
to be down yet.
(49:32):
So um I'm curious if uh you weretalking about intergenerational
ministry.
We did get off that was my faultthat we got off on a little
tangent there, but um you talkabout intergenerational ministry
and kind of the fruitfulness ofthat.
Um we know how it has theability to impact um students,
(49:55):
obviously, and we alluded toearlier how it has the ability
to impact uh some of the oldergenerations in the church as
well.
Um do you have and and I knowI'm putting you on the spot
here, but how like how has thatplayed out as well in in your
church?
Like what benefit not to thestudents but to everyone else do
(50:16):
you feel like it has to have thestudents running cameras,
worshiping in main session witheverybody else, singing on
stage, preaching a sermon inyouth group?
How does that how does that helpeverybody else too?
SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
I think it uh it reminds us of what's important,
which is legacy.
What are we passing on?
Because all of us are gonna die.
And so what are we what are wepassing on to those that are
coming after us?
I think it also gives us a senseof comfort that like, hey, God
(50:52):
is still on the move.
He's still at working, youngpeople.
It's the interesting thing isyou always this happens with
every generation, right?
Like as they start to fade off,as their life starts to sunset,
the world is ending.
And then more specifically,Christians are like, the world
is ending, Jesus is about tocome back.
And it's like, well, it's likeno, you're just dying.
(51:14):
Yeah, exactly.
What it more is is the world isending as you know it, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just that you've you've gotreal ethnocentric with your
Christianity, and so you'reassuming that because you're
dying, Jesus is coming back,like nope.
And you're assuming that becausethe world is changing,
everything's evil, and it'slike, well, nope.
It's just everything shifted.
And so when you see young peoplethat are worshiping God in a
(51:37):
context that you feel like iscompletely evil because you
don't understand it, I think itgives you hope that, like, okay,
like this thing isn't beyondrepair, and God's still doing
his thing in the same way thathe did his thing in me when I
was a 15-year-old or when I was12 or when I was 20, right?
And so I think it it it uh itencourages, I think it comforts,
(51:57):
I think it reminds us of what'simportant.
What are we passing on to thepeople that are gonna come after
us and continue to lead thisthing?
Um, I think it's it's reallyimportant for us to see that and
acknowledge that.
And also to be reminded too,like, yo, God don't need us.
SPEAKER_04 (52:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, he invites us, man.
He invites us into it.
SPEAKER_00 (52:15):
Yeah, he don't need us.
SPEAKER_04 (52:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
He he wants us and he invites us into it, but you
can use whoever, whenever,however.
SPEAKER_04 (52:25):
Man, I'm curious, you know, as we talk about this
and we see how students arebeing able to be at your church,
and maybe there's other stories,people listening to this right
now, like, hey, I yes, we havethat going on right now.
Or maybe there's people like,man, I wish this was happening
in our community at our church.
Off the top of your mind,Jordan, is there just like a a
(52:46):
story, really quickly, that youcan share that you've seen from
students who have jumped all inserving in the four walls of
your church, who that's likebeen a ripple effect as they've
gone beyond the four walls inserving the community.
SPEAKER_03 (53:00):
Corey is our number one story guy at CIY.
Yeah, he is not satisfied withlike this is how things usually
work.
He's like, I need I need a name.
SPEAKER_04 (53:10):
I'm just wow.
You know, just like if there'ssomething like that you can
think off the top of your head.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
I think, yeah, I think something that comes to
mind is like one of ourstudents, he's a pretty he's a
pretty event, he's prettyevangelistic in nature.
Like he's willing to haveconversations, he's willing to
invite people to church, friendswho are believers, friends who
are not.
Um, so a really cool one was umwe did a we did an event a
(53:39):
couple months ago, and he he hadbeen inviting a friend and
invited a friend, and thatfriend finally came.
Um, and as that friend pulledup, um got dropped off by mom,
and mom was crying.
And the reason mom was cryingwas because that individual
(53:59):
never leaves home because whenthey were younger, they were
shot in a drive-by shooting.
And so it was just really cool,you know, this young man in our
ministry who is being boldenough to have conversations and
invite friends.
Um, and obviously he's not doingit perfectly, you know, but he's
doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
Um has this friend come who basically doesn't leave
home other than going to school.
And the mom, you know, is intears because they finally
showed up to something.
So um moments like that makeyouth ministry worth it, in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_04 (54:37):
That's powerful, man.
Thanks for sharing that.
SPEAKER_03 (54:40):
That is really cool.
SPEAKER_04 (54:41):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (54:41):
Um, Jordan, I think you're the best, man.
I think you crush it ateverything you do.
Appreciate you being here withus.
I wish.
Um, you crushed it at this atleast.
So uh thanks, man.
Yeah, we we loved having you.
Thanks.
Keep out the good work.
We appreciate you, bro.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Corey, before we go, I told youthat you would have a chance to
(55:03):
add somebody to our beautifulcork board here.
That is great.
So I'm gonna give you this pin.
Okay, and I want you to tell uswho you picked and why they're
the best person in the worldright now.
SPEAKER_04 (55:12):
Well, let me tell you, this guy, he's great.
He lives in Indianapolis andhe's uh works at the creek.
His name is Will Wright.
Will, if you're watching, hello.
Um he is the pre-team pastor atthe creek in South.
And they just launched this yearin 2025 their pre-teen pastry
and crushing it and loving it.
(55:33):
And and we're excited alsoStuart's gonna be there as one
of our events at Indianapolis,this upcoming tour.
And so, Will, you look veryhappy in this photo.
If you're listening, you shouldwatch the video on YouTube.
Um he's pointing up at a sign, Ithink, or to God, I don't know.
But sorry, this mic's in my way.
Will, you are great.
(55:53):
Keep doing kingdom work.
What you're doing for Pre-ToomMinistry is so fun, it blesses
my heart.
And many others.
So that is Will.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (56:02):
Will thank you for what you do at the Creek.
Appreciate it.
Also, special thanks to Jordanand to Corey for joining me
today.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, Lauren Bryan,
and myself.
Two weeks from now, we will havepart one of our conversation
about buying versus writing.
Uh curriculum we're gonna talkto Ann Wilson about why she
prefers fun fact.
(56:23):
Buy her curriculum.
There you go.
If you don't want to miss that,be sure to subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
Hi, I'm Brad Warren, and this is Beyond the Event, a
Youth Ministry podcast presentedby Christ and Youth, where we
help you maintain momentumbetween the mountaintops.
Our guest today is JordanFrancis.
I could not even begin to listhis entire resume to you.
He's uh works for anorganization called Reframe
Youth, which develops acurriculum for youth in urban
(00:25):
settings.
He's a youth pastor at a churchin the Dallas area as a
volunteer.
You'll hear a little bit aboutthat later.
But Jordan and I are going to beuh we are going to be finishing
up a conversation about theintentionality of student-only
spaces versus getting in studentstudents integrated into big
(00:46):
church by talking about thatlatter piece.
How do we get students involvedin intergenerational ministry?
Uh before we dig into that,though, it's story time.
Just a reminder that if you havea story that you want to share
with us because you think itwould encourage us or uh
challenge us in a specific way,type it up, email it to podcast
(01:06):
at CIY.com, and I will read iton a future episode.
Today's story comes for JeremyWelsh at Fern Creek Christian
Church in Louisville, Kentucky.
Hey CIY, just wanted to share acool story from Move This
Summer.
I've got a core group offreshman boys who were attending
their first move.
They've been friends for years,and they have a friend who
(01:27):
didn't go to church.
The first time he stepped footinto the church was when uh we
had a nerf war in January.
He had a great time, and hisfriends continued to invite him
to come back uh for church onSundays and groups on
Wednesdays, which he did.
This guy heard about move andknew that his friends were
going, so he signed up as well.
In fact, uh I was on the waitinglist until May and was able to
(01:51):
get a couple of my extra spots,one of which ended up being this
guy.
Sorry that you were on thewaiting list.
That's from me, Jeremy, not fromJeremy.
Okay.
By day three, uh, this young mancame and told me that he wanted
to be baptized.
When move was over, I met withthis young man along with his
three friends who had beeninviting him to church, bringing
him to church, and just beinghis friend to have a
conversation about baptism.
(02:12):
On Sunday, July the 6th, thisyoung man, Tyler, was baptized
by his three friends.
From January to July, God wasmoving in Tyler's life through
his friends, orchestrating it towhere I was able to get more
spots from the wait list so thatTyler could attend.
And through the speakers andenvironment and move, Michigan
2, and it culminated with Tylerbeing baptized.
(02:34):
Thanks for the role you allplayed.
Joined by Corey Klein, CIY'sdirector of Superstart.
How does that story make yourlittle heart feel, Corey?
I mean, that's the podcast.
SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
That's it.
That was crazy.
We're done.
I mean, well, Jordan's great.
I want that to Jordan still, butthat was really cool.
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Yeah.
Um, just kidding, just kids outhere changing the world.
Yeah.
You know?
SPEAKER_04 (02:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Freshman boys.
SPEAKER_04 (02:59):
Every day when you're having a bad day, just
think about what God is doingthrough students every single
day right now.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
In all seriousness, though, you you uh you carry the
flag for preteen ministry hereat Christ in you.
So from preteens all the way upto freshmen in high school, like
who else gives that group ofpeople like the amount of uh
responsibility and the amount ofopportunity that the church and
(03:28):
maybe more broadly just Jesusgives them.
You know?
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Like, there's nowhere else inlife where we're like, hey, um,
so you're surrounded by somepeople who uh don't love the
Lord and uh you're in charge ofmaking them aware that he loves
them.
It's like crazy stuff.
(03:50):
It's it's cool though.
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_04 (03:52):
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
All right, superstart is coming up fast.
Yeah, Brad, it is.
Are you gonna go to it?
I'll go to one.
SPEAKER_04 (04:02):
What about two?
SPEAKER_03 (04:03):
I'll go to two.
SPEAKER_04 (04:05):
How about three?
Maybe four.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (04:08):
Okay, I'll go to four.
Okay, great.
Uh, I am directing foursuperstarts this year, which is
a little crazy, but I'm lookingforward to it.
It's gonna be so fun.
How many people direct thatmany?
What how what are you directing?
SPEAKER_04 (04:19):
Uh I think four or five.
Yeah.
What am I doing?
Why have you asked me?
You walked into my office.
This guy, you if you know Brad,this is Brad.
Uh he walks into my office andsays, Corey, I want to go to
more.
That's what you said.
It was something like that.
I was like, okay.
That's you were mad at mebecause you went to two of them
last year, and you went to threethe previous year.
(04:41):
So I'm giving you four.
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Four.
I get to go to Florida, I get togo to Richmond, Virginia, I get
to go to Omaha, Nebraska, I getto go to Nashville, Franklin,
Tennessee.
Yeah, man.
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
Yeah.
Uh, what are you looking forwardto about the tour?
SPEAKER_04 (04:59):
Um, honestly, I'm really excited.
This is probably every year, ifyou listen to the podcast every
year, it's like, oh, Corey saysthe same thing.
Here I am saying the same thing,and I'm really consistent.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
You're the king of consistency.
SPEAKER_04 (05:12):
I am.
I'm really excited about thescripture and the topic that
we're talking about thisupcoming year.
It's really cool how God plantsthe seeds and works through
children's and preteen and youthpastors as we have
conversations.
Like year a year and a halfbefore we even start working on
this about hey, what what do uhthese students need to hear
(05:32):
about?
And just, you know, in thisseason of life to talk about
what can I believe, who can Ibelieve, and that we can
literally lean into what Jesussays that he is the way, he is
the truth, he is the life.
I think there's nothing moreimportant right now.
And you talked about peopleworking with middle schoolers,
preteens, you know, before theevening of the high school.
This is foundational.
(05:53):
And so I'm really excited thatwe could do that with also the
superstar twist, if you've neverbeen, where there's silly games
and maybe a play, awesomeworship, and maybe a potato
coming back.
I don't know.
I didn't say a lot of people.
This is news to me.
Breaking news.
You're breaking actually.
I don't know.
You gotta come the superstar toknow if Gary the Potato is
(06:14):
coming back.
I I heard rumors.
Wait, do I get to do the VO?
Maybe.
Uh if Rob Watson is listening orwatching this, Rob, let me know.
I have no idea.
SPEAKER_03 (06:26):
Um, you want to hear a funny Michael Hester story?
SPEAKER_04 (06:29):
Please and thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (06:30):
So last year I did two voiceovers for uh
Superstart.
I did I was like the omniscientnarrator of the Gary videos.
And what else did I do?
SPEAKER_04 (06:42):
He also did our main films at the end, or claymation.
The claymation videos, that'sright.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
And I was talking to Michael after uh rehearsal week
or something, and Michael doesvoiceover stuff and he's great
at it.
He's phenomenal.
So I was like, Michael, what'dyou think?
And he goes, Man, I thought youdid a really good job on the
claymation videos.
You did great.
I didn't love your performancein the Gary videos.
SPEAKER_04 (07:07):
Michael, can you chime in on this?
Why what did you not like aboutthe Gary videos versus the
claymations?
SPEAKER_03 (07:12):
He didn't not like the Gary videos.
He didn't like my performance.
But your performance, that'swhat I'm asking.
My bad.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Yeah, I was gonna tell you exactly what I actually
said.
Maybe not like word for word,but like really there is a
spirit to what I said.
Okay.
That Brad left out.
Love it.
What is it to go for it?
I said it sounded like when yourecorded those, you were just
given a list of lines and youread each line in isolation.
(07:39):
Which is exactly what happened.
That's exactly what happened.
SPEAKER_04 (07:44):
My question, did you look at it before?
Like, were you like, I'm gonnalook at this?
I went in and I recorded myaudio, or was it like you are at
least once?
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
Rob sent it to me.
Yeah.
But it was like, I mean, you'rejust reading lines off of a
page, and you it's weird becauselike I don't know what the frick
Gary is gonna do next.
Like, I have no idea.
I don't know what this littleguy looks like.
Yeah.
And uh, so you're just likeimagining a potato saying
something back to you.
It's like vegetarian.
Like, how would I respond tothis potato if he was saying
(08:17):
this to me?
Yeah.
And it's just a weird headspaceto be in.
SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
Well, I don't know, man.
I don't know if Gary's comingback.
If he is, just be ready just incase I'll have to find out in
January.
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
You have my agent's number, so uh I actually do.
Yeah.
It's just me.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
It's him.
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
But I talk in a British accent when I'm my
agent.
SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
Really?
Can just really quickly, whatdoes it sound like?
Well, I'm not my agent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (08:40):
Yeah.
Uh okay.
I'm also excited for Superstart.
Yeah.
I'm infinitely more excited forSuperstart now that there's a
possibility that Gary might becoming back.
No, well, here's what I'll say.
If he doesn't come back, my lifeis ruined.
I'll say this right now on thepodcast.
Now that you've now that you'velike put that out there, if he
(09:01):
doesn't come back, I'm quittingmy job and I'm moving to a
remote island because I'll be sosad that I won't be able to bear
being in this building anymore.
SPEAKER_04 (09:09):
No, I'll make it a win-win for you.
If he comes back, great.
If he does not, I will get aGary the Potato tattoo on my
arm.
Okay.
Great.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Sounds good.
SPEAKER_04 (09:18):
So does that make you happy if he doesn't come
back if I get a tattoo?
SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
I mean, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:23):
Okay, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Would we be able to get an alternative revenue
stream for the organization ifwe maybe did like Gary the
Potato like cameo?
SPEAKER_04 (09:34):
Do you know Gary's agent?
I don't know.
Do you know Gary's agent?
I don't know Gary's agent.
I think it's Rob.
SPEAKER_03 (09:40):
Is it Rob?
I think it's Tripp.
I think it's Trip Watson.
Uh anyway, Superstar is going tobe an absolute delight.
We are very excited.
Uh, we have 17 events.
Yes.
Yeah.
17 events that people can go to,including we are back.
We are back in the mountain timezone.
SPEAKER_04 (10:03):
We are.
But where in the mountain timezone?
Phoenix, Arizona.
SPEAKER_03 (10:07):
That's right.
We're so excited to be at SunValley.
We haven't had a superstar atPhoenix since before COVID, I
believe.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:12):
We're actually so uh we are there, but the one that
it's on the website is actuallyat Central.
So we're at Central.
SPEAKER_03 (10:19):
I'm a big dumb dummy.
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_04 (10:21):
I'm just saying that so you know.
unknown (10:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:23):
We're at Central, so it's gonna be great uh in
Arizona.
Um so I cannot wait.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Yeah, if you're in Arizona, come hang out with us.
It's gonna be a blast.
Um, it's early, it's in Januarybecause you can do things in
January in Phoenix.
SPEAKER_04 (10:34):
I want it probably 65 degrees.
It's gonna be great.
I don't want to know what it'sgonna be like in Missouri.
Incredible.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
Yeah, um okay, we're gonna go talk to Jordan.
We're gonna have a greatconversation with Jordan before
we do that.
It's time for Mike Up.
Woo! With Mike.
Mike'd up with Mike, producerMichael.
He's here.
What do you have for us?
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
Hey, correct me if I'm wrong.
Corey is the one that suggestedthat name.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
I actually think that that might be true.
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
I'm pretty sure it's true.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
So everyone, we're in the presence of greatness.
Wow.
It does sound like Corey.
I remember the moment ithappened.
Um okay.
Here's what I think I would liketo maybe do um with this.
Um I I think I think every oncein a while it's nice to maybe
just like have a celebration ofhobbies.
(11:24):
Oh, okay.
Um and pretty sure Lauren islooking at me like like I'm a
child.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Well, she doesn't have hobbies.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Lauren literally looking at Brad.
SPEAKER_04 (11:39):
Does Lauren get to talk into that fourth mic?
Lauren has hobbies.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
Lauren is a very good uh soccer player.
Lauren loves hanging out withher friends.
Lauren loves being outside,going on hikes, and uh And she's
not having a good time, right?
SPEAKER_04 (11:53):
She's not having a good time.
Lauren also updates her friendson Instagram and like, here's
what I've done the last fourmonths.
One, two, three, four, five,six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
And it's great.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
Oh man.
This has been Lauren's favoriteday of recording the podcast, I
can tell.
Um anyway.
Um I I think I think Lauren alsoloves Chai.
Okay.
Lattes?
That's a hobby.
Yeah, that's a hobby.
Okay.
Yep.
Uh I will talk um a little bitabout a hobby that I have, um,
of the several that I have.
(12:22):
Um, but I also think it would benice to just hear about maybe a
couple of the hobbies that youguys have um and the things that
you enjoy about them.
So put your thinking caps on.
Oh, I've turned the caps you'recurrently wearing into thinking
caps.
I've got it.
I'm locked and loaded.
So let me let me talk just likereally, really, um, really
briefly.
Um for approximately a year andtwo weeks-ish.
(12:48):
I have been um on uh a journeywith one of my uh with one of my
hobbies that I started a yearand two weeks ago.
Um I am really into photography.
Um I have been for severalyears.
Um but last year I startedshooting um on film um and it
(13:09):
genuinely truly has been themost fun that I've had um uh
with photography.
It has been a blast.
And the thing um the thing thatI really enjoy about it is just
the way that it like slows medown.
It makes me like pause and thinkum and really take in my
surroundings um and all of thosethings.
And I think that it's just likea true blessing to get to have
(13:30):
um a hobby that um uh thatreally kind of puts me in a
place where I have to engagewith God's creation.
Um these are things that I'vesaid before, so it's like kind
of fresh on my mind.
Um actually I posted about it onInstagram, so like I wrote the
whole thing out.
Check it out.
Um this is just like a summaryversion of that.
(13:51):
But um it's I I just think thatI just think that these things
are um are a gift from the Lord.
I think it's nice to actuallysit and reflect on um those
kinds of gifts that the Lord hasgiven us.
I would love to turn this backover to you guys and hear.
Rob is sorry, Rob, what am Isaying?
Brad.
Sorry, I was thinking about Roba minute.
SPEAKER_04 (14:12):
We have said Rob's name a lot on this episode.
It's true.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Um Brad, I think, is just like ready to fire away.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
He is.
I'm I can be ready.
I mean, you were you it soundedlike you immediately knew.
Well, I didn't immediately knowbefore one.
SPEAKER_04 (14:26):
I just want to say, can we sit in the moment of like
your hobby really quick?
Is that fine before we talk?
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Well, I actually was gonna do the same thing.
SPEAKER_04 (14:32):
Yeah, can we can we talk about Michael really quick?
You're so talented.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
I have a Michael Hester original hanging above my
toilet.
I see it literally every day.
SPEAKER_02 (14:40):
I didn't know that's where you put it.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
What's the photo?
It's it's a picture of a scissortail flyer.
Scissor tailed flycatcher, whichis a bird that we have here in
the South Central United Statesthat is just absolutely
stunning.
It's sitting on a barbed wirefence uh next to I think it was
taken next to your house, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
I had just pulled into my driveway and stopped
when I saw it because I waslike, I don't want that to fly
away.
I'm gonna take a picture of it.
SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
And you did, and I love that picture.
And well, most of thephotography that Michael does is
a little bit more like urban inlike urban lighting influence
kind of thing.
Um, but he had that's not aslike I wouldn't have a picture
like that hanging in my house,but you've taken a few really
cool nature shots too, and thatwas one, and I was like, I have
(15:24):
to have that picture.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_04 (15:27):
That's literally you're so good at it.
Please keep taking more photos,and people should see more of
your work.
And I'm not I'm I know you didnot want this, but people should
buy your work.
Your work is great.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
At Michael's Neology on Instagram.
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Yep.
Go check him up.
He'll he'll print you a print.
Thanks for the shout.
I do sell prints.
SPEAKER_03 (15:47):
It's great.
Brad, what about you?
Um, my hobby is fly fishing.
And it's funny because I was Iwas listening to you talk about
it.
I was like, this is the samething.
Like all of the reasons are thesame.
Yeah.
Like it forces you to slow down.
You can't do it and have yourphone in your hand.
Uh you're you are in the middleof of God's creation.
(16:10):
You're in in tune with likeyou're in tune with nature, but
you also have to be in tune withlike the ecosystem.
Like, I don't want to nerd outtoo much about it, but you gotta
know like what aquatic insectsare in the water and what phase
they're in, and how what are thetrout eating, and um, you know,
like how do I present this in away that is similar to the way
(16:33):
that it would appear in nature?
And um, it's just really cool.
I've learned so much about bugs.
I've learned so much about fishand um fly fishing.
I I was raised doing a littlebit of like lip ripping bass
fishing, which is just likedifferent like it's just faster
(16:55):
and more aggressive, and youknow, um fly fishing is very
slow, it's very uh metronomic,it's very deliberate.
That's a word.
Uh I don't know if that is aword, but everyone will know
what it means.
Yeah.
Um and I when I have a bad day,I I plan my next fishing trip.
(17:19):
I say, okay, I need to get inthis headspace in order to feel
better.
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
I love it.
Mine is like the opposite of youtwo.
You both are like peaceful,patience.
Uh I like to play the drums.
That's maybe the opposite ofthat.
Um, but it is peaceful to me.
Um I've been drumming honestlysince I was five, but the last
year I've been wanting to get Idrum for my church and whatnot,
but like I actually continue toget better, and I find a lot of
(17:47):
just I don't know, joy in that.
And I have not owned a drum setin like 12 or 13 years, and I'm
going to buy one and just put itin my house and make my
neighbors get really mad at me,but that's okay.
And your wife.
Well, no, my wife wants me toget one.
I've been saying no.
She's like, please get drum set.
I want you the drum.
Like, my wife's been pushing forit.
Hannah, you're amazing.
Shout out to Hannah.
And so I think we love Hannah onthis podcast.
(18:09):
She's great.
She's great.
She's great.
Uh, and so she's beenencouraging in that.
And I'm all I'm actually the onethat's like, I don't want to be
annoying.
I don't, but she's like, no, Ithink this is a gift and
something that you enjoy doing.
It gives you peace and joy.
So drumming.
But it's not the other two.
It's very loud.
It's very loud.
SPEAKER_03 (18:26):
Like my voice.
Uh this was a delightfulconversation.
Thank you, Michael.
SPEAKER_04 (18:32):
Um, that was also I put my hat on, by the way.
You said put on your and I'lltwist it back around.
SPEAKER_03 (18:37):
You didn't rally cap it though.
Uh but yeah, now that we've donethat and I'm in a delightful
headspace, I think it's timethat we go and talk to Jordan.
All right, Jordan Francis, Iunderstand that you are uh
passionate about gettingstudents involved in what we
(19:02):
would typically call big churchadult ministries um and kind of
integrating them into thosespaces.
Is that true?
Yes.
I thought so.
Okay, great.
Okay.
So we're just gonna start thisconversation in the easiest
place to start it, which is Iwant to know where that comes
from.
Why is this something that youcare about?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I think it comes from acouple of things.
Number one, the research, right?
So the research talks about kidsleaving the faith, what is it a
million, a million students ayear right now?
Something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:38):
You would know better than me, but like that
wouldn't surprise me, which iscrazy.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
It's it's something it's something astronomically
ridiculous.
Um, and so what like what'sgonna turn the tide on that?
Like, what are the things thatactually keep kids in the faith,
in relationship with God, inrelationship with his people, in
relationship with uh the localchurch?
Um, couple things, one of thembeing having relationships with
(20:02):
other adults outside of theirparents that are faith forming,
right?
And so how else is that gonnahappen other than
intergenerationally, right?
And intergenerationally in thelocal church context.
And so I think it's one thing tohave adults be a part of the
youth ministry, which isabsolutely absolutely necessary
(20:23):
and needed.
Like sure, everybody loves youngadults showing up, they connect
really well with students, it'sawesome.
But at the same time, havingthose older, wiser, you know,
grandparents and you know, ummothers, fathers in the faith,
so to speak, showing up andsharing wisdom and building
those types of relationshipswith students is essential.
(20:44):
But then to have it outside ofthat context too, in main
service, big church, whateveryou want to call it, is really
important.
Um and what's interesting is insmaller churches, and then also
in churches that are um moreblack and brown, just to be
frank, those things are alreadyhappening, and then they happen
(21:04):
by necessity, right?
And in those contexts, I thinkwe're actually seeing people
leave and not come back at asmaller number because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:18):
Okay, can we can we like dig into that a lot?
That is one of the mostinteresting things ever.
Because I go I I go to a churchthat is capital W white.
Like we live in the middle ofMissouri, and like there's not
there's just I mean, that isthis the that is life.
(21:40):
We don't have a ton of diversityhere.
So I'm really interested to hearyou say that like churches that
do skew a little bit morediverse, a little bit more so
some, I'm sure you're referringto African-American churches and
all these types of things, likeI think it's partly because of
like culture, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
And so like we have to we have to get into the cult
conversation of culture, theWest, what do we value?
We value privatization, we valueindividualism, right?
And so in our in our largerchurches where there's a lot of
resource, what we tend to do isindividualize, privatize
everything.
And we do that with ministries,right?
Like the reality is hey, uh,everybody doesn't want crying
(22:18):
babies in service, and everybodydoesn't want kids running around
making a bunch of noise, theywant to hear what the pastor has
to say.
So let's spend a bunch of moneyto put the kids where we're
gonna put them, right?
And once again, I'm not sayingthere isn't benefit to that, but
in everything there'strade-offs.
So, what are the trade-offs thatwe're talking about?
And so I think in that, right,we're seeing some some of the
(22:40):
lack of these intergenerationalrelationships, and as a
consequence, um, I think that'scontributing to us seeing kids
leave the faith, right?
Because once again, we'vealready we've already
established thatintergenerational relationships
are necessary to help keep kidsin the faith post-high school,
right?
And so in churches that aresmaller, number one, you have
(23:01):
less resource, so you can'toutsource those things.
Like you don't have a full-timeyouth pastor, you don't have a
full-time kid pastor.
Like in my church, there's 150people, I'm the volunteer youth
and young adult pastor.
Right?
Yeah, there isn't the resource.
So, and what the super dopething, too, is like our kids are
because of that, and alsobecause I think it's essential,
(23:23):
our kids are heavily involved.
They're on the worship team onSunday morning, they're working
all the media stuff, they'rehelping create media stuff,
they're working in kids.
And I'll be honest about thistoo.
I've worked at one of thelargest mega churches in the
country, and they have studentsdoing a bunch of stuff too,
which I also think is superessential.
Kids are they're serving inkids, they're refereeing soccer
soccer games for the repprograms, they're coaching
(23:46):
teams.
They can actually be assistantcoaches and helping their
parents coach teams.
So, you know, a kid's in eighthgrade and he's helping his dad
coach a fourth grade soccer teamor pre-K soccer team or
whatever.
Like, I think all of thosethings are essential for kids to
remain in the faith.
So I wouldn't say it's everysingle large church, right?
And every single small churchthat's getting it right.
(24:06):
I think just generally speaking,when we look at some of the
principles that shape thoseenvironments, I think we can
learn some things.
And one of those isintergenerational ministry or
intergenerational connections isessential for youth.
And I think it's gonna keep themin the faith.
And um yeah, it's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
So um I'm sorry, I'm like jumping in so much.
Whenever you want to interruptme, you just interrupt me.
You're good.
I was gonna say something, butyou're you're on.
Okay, no, you go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (24:32):
Well, I just going off, Jordan, as we're on that
talk, but you know, as wecontinue through this, uh when I
think of this topic of like whatit looks like for students to be
in the congregation in mainservice, big church, whatever
you want to call it, a lot oftimes my first like thought is
this is really good for them asyou know, as they go through
high school, go into college tonot slip through the cracks for
them to be a part of the uh thecongregation.
(24:55):
But also I've seen it like I Ilook past back to the summer,
like as I'm at my churchworshiping and seeing these high
school college students comingback from things like CIY move
or whatnot, whatnot, with withthis fire uh for Jesus to
worship and they're sitting inthe room, it's also an
encouragement to the wholecongregation.
You know, it's like not only forthem as they are there, but also
(25:17):
for those who are older.
So I was just curious what yourthoughts on that.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
Yeah, 100%.
I think we should definitelycapitalize on that energy, you
know.
Um, and I think it it it likewhen you see young people
passionately worshiping theLord, man, like it does
something to you, you know,whoever you are.
If you if you love Jesus, itdoes something to you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:37):
So there's messages of mutual benefit.
We can all like we all, yeah,yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
But I but I think once again, even to take it a
little bit further, like there'sno junior Holy Spirit.
Like this this idea that welike, and whether it's implicit
or explicit, we separate thembecause they're different and
they don't have as meaningfulthings to contribute.
I don't think that's true.
Like I've heard incrediblyprofound things come out of
(26:06):
junior hires' mouth.
Like God is speaking through youright now, to me in my life, and
speaking to something that youdon't even know that He's
speaking to.
And so I think we just have thisidea that like junior hires and
high schoolers have very littleto offer a congregation, and and
(26:26):
the same with kids as well, andthat's why we kind of like put
them off to the side.
And I think that in some casesthat's explicit, most cases
implicit.
But I think they have a ton tooffer.
I think they should be on thestage leading the worship.
I think they should be given thecall to worship if your church
does that.
They can be reading thescriptures, they can be helping
with communion.
Like we did uh um studentSunday, and you know, I had one
(26:48):
of our students help leadcommunion post-service.
You know what I'm saying?
We put a video together, we hadkids, students lead in worship,
the whole team, the wholeworship team was students, and
it was super dope.
But I'm like, why does it haveto be student Sunday?
Why can't that be every Sunday?
You know what I mean?
Why can't they be just asinvolved every week?
Um, because I think once again,they have something meaningful
to contribute to the body ofChrist, right?
(27:10):
Like Paul said it, Ephesians 3that we would comprehend the
height, the length, the depth,the width of Christ's love with
all the saints, not some, all ofthem.
And so when I get together withall of the saints and I see my
brothers and sisters who areeight years old and can teach me
about the faithfulness ofwalking with God through
suffering and illness and painand all the jobs that they've
(27:30):
lost and all the wars thatthey've they've seen happen, and
yet they still love and serveJesus.
But then I also can see myteenage brother or sister in
Christ who's passionate aboutthe Lord, preaching the gospel
at their high school campus, orhaving hard conversations with
their friends, standing up fortruth in their high school,
whatever it may be.
And I can be encouraged by thattoo.
And so I just think we'remissing something when we
(27:51):
diminish what high schools andjunior hires have to offer to
our congregations at large.
SPEAKER_03 (27:56):
Yeah, I agree with you, which is obviously like a
super big part of CIY's Yeah, Imean, it's right there in our
mission statement, like thiscall to Kingdom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So um, like philosophically,obviously, like I love where
you're at and where you're kindof leading us.
Um, I do want to talkpractically for a second, just
(28:20):
like if I'm a well, let's say afamily, mom and dad, and their
seventh grade kid strolls intoyour church for the first time,
somebody connects them with you,hey, this is our youth pastor,
they say, Hey, we'd really loveto get involved in the youth
ministry here.
What does that practically looklike?
(28:42):
Like what is that student goingto experience?
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
At our youth ministry, yeah, in particular?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, on a Wednesdaynight, man, we're just focused
on building relationships,having conversations, eating
together, having some funtogether.
It's nothing crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (28:58):
Nothing's that a special per se.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Is that just students?
Yeah, on a Wednesday night, it'slike it's high school and junior
high and adults.
So we still have that Wednesdaynight experience.
I wouldn't say that we would getrid of that.
And obviously, once again, I'min the state of Texas, so uh
getting rid of a Wednesday nightwould be like sacrilege, right?
Exactly.
Yeah, so that's that's heresy,blasphemy, you know what I'm
(29:22):
saying?
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
But yeah, so like you're you're trying to be more
protective of like Sundaymornings as this intentionally
intergenerational space.
So what what um like are you areyou using Wednesday nights as
(29:44):
like a catalyst to push studentstoward like getting involved on
a specific volunteer team or uhyou know joining a certain group
or or whatever that may be?
Like how does that how does thatpathway work?
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah, that's that for sure.
So the cool thing is once again,I think, and I think this kind
of this is the thing aboutsmaller churches.
A lot of this stuff is bynecessity.
Yeah.
Right.
And so it's like kids servingstudents because they have to.
There's no one else to serve.
Right.
But there's also this reality oflike you've accidentally
stumbled into something.
(30:20):
And so I'm having theseconversations with my pastor.
Like, yo, as we're growing, wehave to make sure that this
stuff does not get pulled out ofthe DNA.
We need to make sure this ourstudents are still doing the
same things that they were doingbefore.
And maybe it's even a situationwhere if we've got other people
who want to volunteer, maybe ourstudents are helping train some
of those people to fill some ofthose roles that our students
(30:41):
have been filling.
Um, it's about giving themownership, about giving them
opportunity to lead, toencourage, all those different
types of things.
And so before I got there, thiswas already a part of the
culture, whether that be onpurpose or by accident.
And now it's like, okay, as wecontinue to grow, how do we
fight for that not to change?
And here's why it's essentialfor this not to change.
(31:02):
So as the church grows, if theLord wills for it to grow, then
I'm gonna be like, yo, we can'tchange this about a
congregation.
Who cares if we've got, well, Isay who cares?
It may be great that we've gotthese other people that want to
serve, but at the same time,what I don't want to do is for
us to like now malign our youngpeople and say, hey, we don't
need you to do that anymore.
Hey, you don't you don't have toshow up and be a part of this
(31:24):
anymore.
And we want them to be a part ofit as much as we want our adults
to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
100%.
And so I think it would looklike them showing up on uh a
Wednesday night, buildingrelationships, getting to know
the church, their familybecoming comfortable, them
becoming comfortable.
And then as as as they'regrowing and coming on Sunday
mornings, they're gonna seeother youth, other youth on the
cameras, other youth um hangingout in kids' ministry, serving
(31:50):
together.
And I think if you've gotrelationships and you're hanging
out with those people, you'regonna end up doing what they do
kind of by osmosis.
So if your homie who you'veconnected with on Wednesday
nights serves in second grade onSunday morning, you might be
like, well, I'm just gonna gohang out with him in that room
and serve then.
SPEAKER_03 (32:07):
So we're we're talking a lot about the student
side of this, where it's like,hey, we're yeah, we're trying to
drive students to serve, um, andthey're seeing their friends
serve, which is gonna make themwant to serve, and they have to
serve because we're a smallchurch, and that's all great.
Have you had to do, and theanswer to this may be no, I'm
not trying to lead you anywhere.
I genuinely am curious.
Have you had to do any legworkwith the adults in your church
(32:32):
to like get them used to theidea that like students are
going to be involved at a highlevel in what's going on in the
church?
Uh no.
That's just like part of theDNA.
Okay.
Absolutely.
What would your then then I'mgonna put you on the spot?
What would your encouragement beto somebody who is not a part of
(32:54):
a small church plant and um ispart of a very established
culture?
And uh maybe those thosepathways aren't there yet, and
there's gonna have to be somework getting done.
How would you like encouragethat person?
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Yeah, I would so the way I would start is, and this
is just me off the top of myhead thinking about it.
When you work at a large church,right, convincing the the lead
pastor or something is like,let's just keep it, call it what
it is, dang near impossible.
So don't even start there,right?
I'm not even starting withleadership, I'm starting with
the people that I'mcollaborating with in next gen.
The chances are there's kidspastor or multiple kids pastors,
(33:35):
and then there's middle schoolguy, high school guy, young
adults, whatever.
So we'll be like, okay, let mego to my kids' ministry person,
start chopping up with them, andbe like, hey, what would it look
like for us to have a littlepipeline going where maybe we're
training some of our studentsand they're coming and serving
in some of your classrooms andfilling in some gaps?
Right.
So I would start there.
So now I'm I'm into proof ofconcept.
(33:56):
Let me make this work, let mecome up with a system, let me
come up with a methodology, letme come up with a training
process in collaboration withsomebody they already work with.
Let's prove the concept and thenlet's expand the concept.
So once I prove it and I get apipeline, now I can go to other
people and say, hey, this isalready working here.
Here's the benefit of it.
We're seeing our students getplugged in, growing their faith.
(34:16):
Let's let's figure out how to dothis with you too, right?
Because now you've got socialproof so you can get more
buy-in.
And then once you've got buy-inacross next gen, you can be
like, hey, Pastor, look at whatwe did, look at what we figured
out.
This is something we shouldchampion across the church.
Look at how this is affectingthe way that we do next gen
ministry.
Then it becomes more of a thing.
unknown (34:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
You know what I'm saying?
And instead of, hey, we, youknow, hey, we got to do this and
we got to throw money into it,like that's just it's not gonna
happen.
So that's how I would start it.
I would start it at the pace ofrelationship with the people
that I already work with andcollaborate with them to figure
out how we make this thinghappen.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
Yeah.
It's funny because um you'reyou're yeah, I mean, you're
speaking my language in a l in alot of ways, but it's like um
the senior ministerrelationship.
I'm wondering how like well, letme let me back up a little bit
(35:13):
and say it, say it kind of thisway.
I feel like if you do it the waythat you're describing, it's
gonna it's it's the right way todo it.
It's gonna take a little bit oftime, right?
And you're gonna have to investquite a bit over a long period
of time in order to kind of likebe able to see some fruitfulness
of this.
But by then, I feel like youalready will have accumulated a
(35:34):
pretty significant little amountof data to show that like, hey,
service makes faith sticky forkids as they're like jumping
into the to the next phase.
And um yeah, I'm curious howyou've seen that play out in in
in your context.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
Yeah, I mean, so where just to give you context,
where I am at, I've been backhere a year, right?
So all of it's still really newin terms of where I am at
specifically right now.
Okay.
Um but what I can say is like,for example, so the guy who who
is my intern who I'm training tobe the youth pastor, he's been
(36:16):
at the church since he was born,pretty much, from my
understanding.
Or no, not that's not true.
The church has been open 13years, he's been there since the
beginning.
There was another church beforethat that he was connected to
family, AG stuff.
And so um he's come through theranks, he's serving, and now
he's gonna be the youth pastor,and he's been serving us this
(36:37):
whole time.
Another guy who's a volunteer,he's been serving since he was
in high school, he's in collegenow, still shows up every
Wednesday as one of the mostconsistent volunteers.
And so that's just two peoplethat I'm thinking of off the top
of my head that have beeninvolved in this thing since
they were, you know, whatevergrade it would be at 12 years
old.
SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
Yeah, and or younger, and they're they're now
like anchors, fundamentalanchors in the church.
They serve in worship, theyserve on Wednesday nights, they
they serve in all differenttypes of capacities, doing all
different types of things.
Like our church wouldn'tfunction properly without those
two individuals.
I can tell you that for a fact.
SPEAKER_03 (37:14):
Well, and it's like that's a difficult conversation
if you identify somebody in yourchurch who you feel like is high
capacity who hasn't been on thatjourney, and you walk up to them
and you're like, Hey brother,how would you feel about
becoming the youth pastor here?
It's like, whoa, okay, that'sradical, that's weird.
(37:34):
Um, but like it feels like itwould almost be natural or like
it was a natural progression forthis um young man, woman, I
don't know, guy or girl.
Dude, name's Caleb.
He's super cool.
For this young guy to shout outto Caleb to like uh work his way
into this position, which Ithink is really neat and
(37:56):
addresses another issue, whichis just that like churches can't
find people to hire now.
Like there's a huge shortage ofof pastors, and so the fact that
you have this system set upwhere it's like, hey, we're able
to get kids serving from a veryyoung age, put them on a
trajectory where they're able todiscover their giftedness and
(38:17):
how that plays out in thecontext of the local church, and
then we're able to like see thatcome to fruition when we hire
them on and they become part ofthis like team.
That's really neat, man.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
And the truth, and just to be clear, it doesn't
always work.
So like fair.
But I'm just I just want to be,I just want to keep it a stack,
like it's messy, it's alreadybeen messy for me.
Like I I literally um allowed astudent, am I gonna go into too
much detail, obviously, alloweda student to teach a sermon, and
then a couple weeks later,something very, very
(38:48):
catastrophic happens.
And no one's dead or anythinglike that, but something
happened, and it's like, yo, youknow what I'm saying?
And so once again, like whenyou're getting involved with
students and you see the call,and like I see the call of God
on students' lives in our youthministry, and I'm calling it out
like, yo, God has called you tosomething.
Like, I like you have this gift,I can see it in you, I can see
(39:10):
you use it, I can see theinfluence you have, I can see
how well you communicate.
You're I can you can sing allthese different types of things.
And so I think in the context ofour youth ministries, like we
should be constantly calling outand encouraging students to be
thinking about ministry as apossibility of something that
God has called them to.
Because um, I mean, CIY did anincredible job this summer, like
(39:34):
pointing to that reality thatmost people get into ministry
because someone told them thatthey saw something in them that
they didn't see in themselves.
And then they start exploringand investigating that and
recognize, like, yo, maybe Godhas called me, maybe he has
asked me to use these gifts.
And part of the way thatstudents are gonna figure that
out is for you to give them theopportunity to figure out if
(39:55):
they have that gift or not.
What better place to do it thanin youth group?
Yeah.
What are we waiting for?
What am I in the pulpit for?
Yeah, no, bro.
I need I need you up therepreaching.
I need you guys up there leadingworship, I need you guys leading
small groups, I need you guysleading your friends to the
faith.
I just need to be there tofacilitate and help you navigate
challenges and navigatechallenges in your own life.
SPEAKER_03 (40:16):
Like, I yeah, and to your earlier point to like just
encourage, because that's notsomething that's like naturally
like I don't know that a lot ofstudents who could do a really
good job teaching a lesson thinkto themselves like, I know what
I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna ask if I can teach alesson at a church.
It's like, no, not at all.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:36):
Jordan, I'm curious talking about you know, seeing
something in a student, talkingabout what God has in store for
them, seeing a giftaccountability.
Talking about them volunteeringin your church there um in
Texas.
If you think they're the thefaces, the people that you see
day in, day out, or on Sundays,Wednesdays at your church, is
there a good majority of themwhere it's like you or other
(40:58):
leaders at your church said,Hey, I see this in you, and
that's why they're volunteeringand they're jumping in?
Or are there also students whocame to you who are like felt
like, hey, I I feel like I cando this?
Like, does that make sense?
I'm just curious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
I I even had one student come to me and be like,
Hey, I can't not one.
SPEAKER_04 (41:14):
Okay.
unknown (41:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
But when I'm like, hey, uh next Wednesday, you're
leading worship.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hey bro, get out of here.
SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
You know.
unknown (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
Like, what are we doing?
I'm here in ministry, notbecause I was like, I think this
would be a good idea, butbecause somebody else uh who had
the Holy Spirit uh said, Hey,maybe this is something that you
should think about doing.
I don't know where I would be ifhe had not said that to me,
truthfully.
I mean, maybe God would havestill found a way to get me to
where I am now, but you know, Idon't know.
(41:49):
He definitely used that.
SPEAKER_04 (41:50):
I think that just echoes the importance of what
you guys talk about then to towhen you see something, whether
you're an adult leader, pastorat your church, a parent,
brother, sister, whatever it is,who's he sees this to the
actually point it out.
Yeah, that's huge.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Yeah, I mean, it just it comes down to on some
level, what do we think thechurch is?
What do we think youth group is?
To me, youth group is thiscommunity coming together of
young people trying to discoverwho they are, trying to discover
what it means to follow Jesus,what he's called them to.
And I I need to create anenvironment where they can
answer those questions.
And part of answering thatquestion, those questions is
(42:26):
like, what gifts do you have andhow are you gonna offer them to
the local body?
And so there has to be space forthem to discern what those gifts
are, which I don't know anyteenagers that can discern their
own gifts.
That is very rare, if happens atall.
So, like it's gonna take us asadults calling out what we see
in them and telling them that webelieve in their ability to
(42:47):
hone, craft, develop that skill,and then giving them opportunity
to do it, right?
It's gonna take that and thenthe same thing in the local
church context, because that'swhat we do with adults, right?
Like we give them opportunitiesto serve, we train them, we
challenge them, we encouragethem, we do the same thing with
with young people and give themthe opportunity to do that in
the large church context aswell.
(43:08):
Because once again, there's nojunior Holy Spirit.
If they're in Christ, then we'reall in Christ.
And the reality is we read thegospels.
Who did Jesus use to flip theworld upside down?
A bunch of teenagers.
You know what I'm saying?
So um, yeah, I think it's it'spretty self-evident.
Revivals, when the where dorevivals happen?
They don't happen at old folks'homes, you know what I'm saying?
(43:30):
They're happening in incolleges, right?
They're happening with youngpeople, and so we need to create
spaces for young people to likehone and express and and and
develop their gifts.
And it's yeah, man, I thinkabout one of the prayers the one
of the prayers that I pray formy son is God, use my son to do
(43:50):
things that you couldn't use meto do.
Because I got saved at 20 yearsold, had already been walling
out, already done a bunch ofstuff, already defollowed my
mind and heart in ways that Ihave to still work through to
this day, 15 years later.
And I'll probably have tocontinue to work through for the
rest of my life because thereare just decisions that I made
that I can't take back.
(44:12):
But my my son hasn't made thosedecisions, right?
Praise God.
I mean, he's 10.
And like we had the sex talk theother day, and he's like, I
don't even know what you'retalking about.
Like, what is that?
That's weird.
Why are you talking why are youtalking to me about this, man?
What's wrong with you?
That you do what?
What the heck?
So, but I'm like, praise Godthat you don't know what that
(44:34):
is.
Because when I was your age, Idid know what it was.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying?
And so what the reason I'msaying this is because I think
if we're gonna, if, if, what ifwe took these junior hires and
high schoolers who are yet to bedefiled by the nonsense or yet
to be corrupted by social media,and we said, yo, let's get your
(44:56):
time, time, attention focused onthe things of God and growing in
what he's called you to, andlet's let that be the thing that
has your affection andattention, not social media or
whatever else.
And let's see what God can useyou to do because you're on fire
for him instead of on fire forInstagram or TikTok or whatever
other nonsense there is outthere.
(45:17):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, you're just we're just notcreating avenues for those types
of things to happen.
It's like, yeah, be distractedby your phone.
Yeah, be on be on, yeah, do allthat stuff that kids do.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
You bring up uh social media, which I think is a
really interesting kind ofoverlay to all of this or
context, all of this, maybewould be a better word, but um
like students are so uhstimulated and so like
entertained all the time rightnow.
Do you find that when studentswalk through the doors of your
(45:50):
church that you're having topush back against like a
consumerist kind of nature inorder to get them to a place
where they want to hop in?
Or do you feel like they walk inlike looking for something
different and they're rare andready to go?
SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
Um that's a good question.
I think where I'm at it varies.
So I think some days they'redown to hop in and other days
they're not interested.
I think it can depend on manythings for varying reasons.
Um I think it's our job to likenavigate that and continue to
cur encourage them.
(46:28):
Like I give you an example, likeone time there's a there's a
student who has a ton of gifts,and he walks in and he's just
like hella moody, right?
And I'm like, yo, you good?
He's like, Yeah, yeah.
And obviously he's not, right?
Yeah, and he's like, I can tell,like, you're not gonna engage
(46:48):
today, and it's all good.
But I'm like, yo, it's obvious,it's obvious that you aren't
good today.
It would be better for you justto say, I'm not good, leave me
alone.
So then he says, Hey, I this wesay it's like all right, I'm not
I'm not in a good spot rightnow, leave me be.
Okay, cool, got you.
Appreciate you being honest.
But what am I doing?
I'm moving him, I'm moving himtowards a different way of
(47:10):
thinking about things.
I'm moving him towards asituation where he recognizes he
can come into the church and bewho he is that day, what's going
on with him, he can express itand maybe he can get to the
point where we can have aconversation about it, which is
ultimately more of what we want,right?
And so, like, I want our youthspaces to be, or our youth space
in particular, to be a placewhere these kids can come with
whatever they're feeling on thatday, whatever they're struggling
(47:31):
with, whatever they're wrestlingwith, and it be a space where
they can express those things.
If it derails conversation, ifit takes us away from the thing
that I had planned, so be it.
That's where we need to go.
That's where we need to go.
That's what we need to diveinto.
That's what we need to diveinto.
If that's what the Lord has forus that day, so be it.
I'm cool with it.
Um, but once again, I want it tobe more a space where they can
(47:53):
come and figure stuff out, comeand share stuff, come and
express stuff and have biblicaltruth speaking into them spoken
into them as a consequence.
And so I think it but it varies.
Like some days they come in andthey'll they're wanting to
serve, wanting to contribute,wanting to, you know, help clean
up after service, wanting totear stuff down, wanting to
contribute.
And other days, like, you know,they're trying to get on get in
(48:14):
the car as soon as mom shows up,you know, they're on their phone
the whole time.
And they're not trying to getfor because they're not trying
to engage.
SPEAKER_01 (48:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:21):
But when I think about it, I'm like, am I any
different?
I'm not.
You know what I'm saying?
When when when when I don't wantto talk to my wife, do I get on
my phone and act like I'm busy,or stare at the TV, or read a
book, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:38):
Or just work later so we don't have to talk.
You know what I mean?
Like, I I'm guilty of the samethings.
It's just I get I get you knowmad at them in ways that I
really shouldn't.
Like I'm expecting them to bebetter than me.
SPEAKER_03 (48:51):
Yeah.
It's kind of crazy.
But I think even what you'retalking about and like giving
them language to like givingthem a way to even acknowledge
what they are feeling ratherthan feel like, hey, I've got to
put on the mask or whatever isis a big deal too.
So um we are going to start theprocess of landing this plane.
(49:12):
And I know that Corey is a verythoughtful person, so I want to
make sure that I give him plentyof leeway in case he has
anything else he wants to ask orsay.
Um so I just want you to knowwe're headed.
The flaps are flapping.
But the wheels are the wheelslike the the wheels don't have
to be down yet.
(49:32):
So um I'm curious if uh you weretalking about intergenerational
ministry.
We did get off that was my faultthat we got off on a little
tangent there, but um you talkabout intergenerational ministry
and kind of the fruitfulness ofthat.
Um we know how it has theability to impact um students,
(49:55):
obviously, and we alluded toearlier how it has the ability
to impact uh some of the oldergenerations in the church as
well.
Um do you have and and I knowI'm putting you on the spot
here, but how like how has thatplayed out as well in in your
church?
Like what benefit not to thestudents but to everyone else do
(50:16):
you feel like it has to have thestudents running cameras,
worshiping in main session witheverybody else, singing on
stage, preaching a sermon inyouth group?
How does that how does that helpeverybody else too?
SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
I think it uh it reminds us of what's important,
which is legacy.
What are we passing on?
Because all of us are gonna die.
And so what are we what are wepassing on to those that are
coming after us?
I think it also gives us a senseof comfort that like, hey, God
(50:52):
is still on the move.
He's still at working, youngpeople.
It's the interesting thing isyou always this happens with
every generation, right?
Like as they start to fade off,as their life starts to sunset,
the world is ending.
And then more specifically,Christians are like, the world
is ending, Jesus is about tocome back.
And it's like, well, it's likeno, you're just dying.
(51:14):
Yeah, exactly.
What it more is is the world isending as you know it, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just that you've you've gotreal ethnocentric with your
Christianity, and so you'reassuming that because you're
dying, Jesus is coming back,like nope.
And you're assuming that becausethe world is changing,
everything's evil, and it'slike, well, nope.
It's just everything shifted.
And so when you see young peoplethat are worshiping God in a
(51:37):
context that you feel like iscompletely evil because you
don't understand it, I think itgives you hope that, like, okay,
like this thing isn't beyondrepair, and God's still doing
his thing in the same way thathe did his thing in me when I
was a 15-year-old or when I was12 or when I was 20, right?
And so I think it it it uh itencourages, I think it comforts,
(51:57):
I think it reminds us of what'simportant.
What are we passing on to thepeople that are gonna come after
us and continue to lead thisthing?
Um, I think it's it's reallyimportant for us to see that and
acknowledge that.
And also to be reminded too,like, yo, God don't need us.
SPEAKER_04 (52:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, he invites us, man.
He invites us into it.
SPEAKER_00 (52:15):
Yeah, he don't need us.
SPEAKER_04 (52:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
He he wants us and he invites us into it, but you
can use whoever, whenever,however.
SPEAKER_04 (52:25):
Man, I'm curious, you know, as we talk about this
and we see how students arebeing able to be at your church,
and maybe there's other stories,people listening to this right
now, like, hey, I yes, we havethat going on right now.
Or maybe there's people like,man, I wish this was happening
in our community at our church.
Off the top of your mind,Jordan, is there just like a a
(52:46):
story, really quickly, that youcan share that you've seen from
students who have jumped all inserving in the four walls of
your church, who that's likebeen a ripple effect as they've
gone beyond the four walls inserving the community.
SPEAKER_03 (53:00):
Corey is our number one story guy at CIY.
Yeah, he is not satisfied withlike this is how things usually
work.
He's like, I need I need a name.
SPEAKER_04 (53:10):
I'm just wow.
You know, just like if there'ssomething like that you can
think off the top of your head.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
I think, yeah, I think something that comes to
mind is like one of ourstudents, he's a pretty he's a
pretty event, he's prettyevangelistic in nature.
Like he's willing to haveconversations, he's willing to
invite people to church, friendswho are believers, friends who
are not.
Um, so a really cool one was umwe did a we did an event a
(53:39):
couple months ago, and he he hadbeen inviting a friend and
invited a friend, and thatfriend finally came.
Um, and as that friend pulledup, um got dropped off by mom,
and mom was crying.
And the reason mom was cryingwas because that individual
(53:59):
never leaves home because whenthey were younger, they were
shot in a drive-by shooting.
And so it was just really cool,you know, this young man in our
ministry who is being boldenough to have conversations and
invite friends.
Um, and obviously he's not doingit perfectly, you know, but he's
doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
Um has this friend come who basically doesn't leave
home other than going to school.
And the mom, you know, is intears because they finally
showed up to something.
So um moments like that makeyouth ministry worth it, in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_04 (54:37):
That's powerful, man.
Thanks for sharing that.
SPEAKER_03 (54:40):
That is really cool.
SPEAKER_04 (54:41):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (54:41):
Um, Jordan, I think you're the best, man.
I think you crush it ateverything you do.
Appreciate you being here withus.
I wish.
Um, you crushed it at this atleast.
So uh thanks, man.
Yeah, we we loved having you.
Thanks.
Keep out the good work.
We appreciate you, bro.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Corey, before we go, I told youthat you would have a chance to
(55:03):
add somebody to our beautifulcork board here.
That is great.
So I'm gonna give you this pin.
Okay, and I want you to tell uswho you picked and why they're
the best person in the worldright now.
SPEAKER_04 (55:12):
Well, let me tell you, this guy, he's great.
He lives in Indianapolis andhe's uh works at the creek.
His name is Will Wright.
Will, if you're watching, hello.
Um he is the pre-team pastor atthe creek in South.
And they just launched this yearin 2025 their pre-teen pastry
and crushing it and loving it.
(55:33):
And and we're excited alsoStuart's gonna be there as one
of our events at Indianapolis,this upcoming tour.
And so, Will, you look veryhappy in this photo.
If you're listening, you shouldwatch the video on YouTube.
Um he's pointing up at a sign, Ithink, or to God, I don't know.
But sorry, this mic's in my way.
Will, you are great.
(55:53):
Keep doing kingdom work.
What you're doing for Pre-ToomMinistry is so fun, it blesses
my heart.
And many others.
So that is Will.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (56:02):
Will thank you for what you do at the Creek.
Appreciate it.
Also, special thanks to Jordanand to Corey for joining me
today.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, Lauren Bryan,
and myself.
Two weeks from now, we will havepart one of our conversation
about buying versus writing.
Uh curriculum we're gonna talkto Ann Wilson about why she
prefers fun fact.
(56:23):
Buy her curriculum.
There you go.
If you don't want to miss that,be sure to subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
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