April 14, 2025 • 72 mins
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What if the key to extraordinary youth ministry growth isn't flashy programming but something far more fundamental? In this conversation, Mike Branton shares how Sun Valley Community Church transformed their student ministry by focusing on relationships, staff retention, and intentional leadership development – resulting in over 300% growth in just four years.
Mike reveals the counterintuitive approach that set them apart: rather than pushing for immediate numerical results, they first established a healthy foundation before "pouring gas on the fire." He breaks down their ministry philosophy using a compelling fire metaphor where events are sparks, programs are logs, but relationships are the embers that provide lasting warmth and draw people in. "Those flashes in the pan are actually more detrimental than helpful in the long run," Mike explains, advocating instead for ministry that raises the water level permanently rather than creating temporary waves.
The conversation explores Sun Valley's commitment to authenticity, from their leadership distinctive of "love first, lead second, but always do both" to their transparent expectations with volunteers. Mike shares how they reorganized their ministry priorities (small groups first, student serving second, large group gatherings third) and reimagined church-wide partnerships where everyone serves as a "student volunteer." Perhaps most striking is their successful appeal to leadership for resources, including a Christmas offering that raised one million dollars to make summer camp financially accessible to all.
Whether you're struggling with leadership pressure for quick results or simply wanting to build sustainable growth, Mike's insights provide a refreshing alternative to the "bigger, better, faster" mentality that often pervades ministry conversations. This episode offers practical wisdom for creating a youth ministry that doesn't just attract numbers but transforms lives for the long haul.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, I am Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, ayouth ministry podcast presented
by Christ in Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Today we're going to be talkingto Mike Branton.
Michael Branton is a pastor inthe Phoenix area in Arizona.
(00:25):
He is at Sun Valley CommunityChurch.
He was on staff at Christ inYouth for several years working
with Believe and he's just areally great, insightful,
thoughtful guy and we're goingto talk about a lot of great
things and I'm excited for youto hear from him.
But before we do that, I amjoined by my good friend, caleb
(00:49):
DeRoyne.
Hi, caleb.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm just fired up to be here, all right.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm just happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm just fired up to be here.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's something.
So today is a weird day for me.
I just want to like leteverybody know that if I'm weird
today, I got my tonsils takenout two weeks ago.
I don't know if any of you haveever had your tonsils taken out
as an adult human being, but itis the actual worst thing in
(01:22):
the world.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I hated every second of the recovery, the first 10
days after were like the world.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm so sorry.
I hated every second of therecovery.
The first 10 days after werelike the worst, but I still like
.
It's over two weeks after and Istill feel like.
I think that I sound weirdright now.
Do I sound the same?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
to you.
You sound like Brad.
Well, that's good.
You sound mostly normal,because my throat hurts.
Don't say mostly normal.
He's going to internalize that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Okay, you know me so well.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You sound normal.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Now, when I came over a week ago, you did not sound
normal About a week ago, anyway,so I might say some crazy
things, who knows?
Also a weird day, because it'sboard meeting day today.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is board meeting day and my wife's birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And Alexis's birthday Shout out on the podcast.
Shout out on the podcast.
Shout out on the podcast toalexis deroyan, who is in
marketing and not going tolisten to this a hundred percent
.
So, um, one of my favoritethings about my friendship with
caleb is when I first started atciy was like right after you
got married.
Um, when you got married inlike november of 2017, and I
(02:22):
started in january of 18 yeah,so like married.
Caleb was still a fairly newperson trying to figure it out.
He like had only existed for avery short period of time, but
alexis's maiden name is birdsong it is, which is like a
great name.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
It is and everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
everyone was like why you should have taken her name
and called you caleb bird songall the time, or you guys would
be coming to a party and peoplewould be like the bird songs are
coming the bird songs are here.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's true, that used to happen a lot.
My grandfather would cry I amthe only heir of my name.
Yeah, and now my son, so itlives on.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I am the only heir of my name and I don't have a son,
so you'll get there.
You could be an indie music duoas the bird songs, the bird
songs, you guys could.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, one of you can play the mandolin.
Uh-huh, yeah, you can play themandolin and I'll play the zoe
de chanel role yeah, anyway,it's board meeting day today.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
There's a lot of great people in the building um
running around.
It's an exciting day today.
There's a lot of great peoplein the building running around.
It's an exciting day.
But really we don't need totalk about board meetings.
That would be like the lamestpossible thing to talk about,
but it is a milestone day everyyear.
It's like we have boardmeetings and then it's summer,
it's coming fast.
You know, what I mean.
(03:41):
Like you always, caleb.
We have a monthly all staffmeeting that, Caleb, you get to
talk about, like mix a littlebit, and every single one of
those meetings and you alwaysget up and you're like this many
days until, um, until we, youknow, I don't know what that
number is, but it has got to beless than it's less 45 days it's
(04:08):
less.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's less than 30.
It's less than 30 like workingdays yeah, less than 30 business
days.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Uh, let's see my heavens, we're like, we're.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think we're like 32 , 30, somewhere around 32 days.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, he's got it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Just days total.
We're like 31, 32 days from ourproduction contractors showing
up.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It is until yes.
So the production people showup a week before the event staff
do, but general event staffshow up in 28 business days From
the day of recording.
From the day of recording.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean, this podcast comes out in three days, so 25
for you listening at home.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh my heavens.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You're just not on top of your podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Somebody listening to this four years from now is
going to be like what are theytalking about?
When did they get?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
there Years ago.
Did they ever make it Anyway?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
summer is coming and it's the best time.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
It is.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I love summer.
I love mix.
Going to get to do a couple offun mix things.
What are we excited about formix this year?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Man, I'm excited about this theme.
I'm excited about for Mix thisyear.
What's going on, man, I'mexcited about this theme I'm
excited about.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I mean just In between, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Even talking about in between is so prevalent for
sixth, seventh and eighthgraders, especially because
they're in middle school.
Right, they're in middle school.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, it's called middle school.
Yeah, it might as well's calledmiddle school.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, like it might as well be called between school
a hundred percent, and so thisis just so well tailored for
them and we're gonna get to beable to tackle some pretty heavy
texts from hebrews and make itreally, really cool and unique
for them.
And so I'm excited to just hangout with uh, with churches that
I know and love this summer andmeet new churches that I've
(06:06):
never met before, and I'm justready for the craziness of
summer.
There's something about theadrenaline and the alive and
having to figure out problemsand put out fires but also be so
in tune and surrounded by theholy spirit, doing unbelievable
stuff that it's like, yeah, Icouldn't wait, I just yeah, it's
(06:31):
, it's gonna be so great andboard meeting day is like when
it starts now we're we're infifth gear and we're not coming
back until august how does?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
that make you feel are you ready?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
are you ready to be in fifth gear?
I always live my life in fifthgear, baby okay, let's talk a
little bit about your august.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Um, you're doing something exciting, yeah, which
is going to leadville, colorado.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I am going to leadville, colorado, to
participate in a very cool event.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yes, and I haven't really talked to you about it,
so I want to hear about it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
So if you are listening to this, there is a YouTube series
called From the Ground Up, andthey pick some pretty novice
mountain bikers.
I am novice, I like to ride,but nothing crazy.
It's more of just like a mentalhealth break for me to go ride
my bike.
But they pick you and theytrain you up for a few months to
(07:24):
go ride my bike, um, but theypick you, um, and they train you
up for a few months to go ridea hundred miles on a mountain
bike in leadville, colorado.
The race is august 9th, sosummer will be wrapped up just
barely barely wrapped.
we're still working here.
I'm going to have to miss truckunpack.
(07:44):
Sorry, we'll miss you.
It's essentially just like a12-hour bike race and climbing
up mountains.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
It takes 12 hours to do 100 miles.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Like 12 hours is good .
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I'm hoping to make it in 12 hours, oh my heavens, how
do you even prepare forsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
uh, sitting on a bike for a long time.
There are some days where I'mout of bed for less than 12
hours.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Most of the time those are saturdays, but so oh
my gosh my goal.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So the crazy thing about this race is you climb all
these mountains and you can doit on your bike or you can walk
your bike, but there are timecuts throughout the way.
So it's like at the first 40miles if you're not there by a
certain time of day, they willpull you off the course because
you will get back after dark andyou shouldn't mountain bike on
these crazy mountains in thedark, and so so it's not just
(08:43):
down it down, it's up and down.
Up and down it's something.
So it's 105 miles.
Actually, it's more attractiveto call it a hundred miles, but
it's 105 miles and there's12,000 feet of climbing over the
hundred miles.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I just got sick to my stomach.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Uh, I listened to a podcast about it the other day,
a mile-by-mile recap of what therace looks like, and I yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So wait, when you're going up, you walk the bike.
I mean, if you can't ride it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So, like the goal is, you want to ride it up the
hills, okay, but like you'regoing to be dying, Shot at some
point, and so yeah be shot atsome point, and so yeah, they're
.
The craziest climb is from 9600feet to 12 500 feet in a little
over seven miles.
It's 3000 feet.
It's stupid.
So what I'm?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
doing is how many people participate in this 1800
people okay how many peoplefinish?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
1200 people finished, so that means 600 people got
pulled off the course.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Like if you finish in any amount of time.
I feel like that's an insaneaccomplishment.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And my goal.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
So this summer.
My goal is to.
If you see me at an event, I'llprobably have my bike with me.
If you see me in New Mexico,I'm a hundred percent bringing
my bike.
I'll wake up before adultleader meeting, ride to adult
meeting.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Are you breaking news right now?
Are we moving adult leadermeeting back to the mornings?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
yes, mix adult whoa breaking news I think you just
peeked out there, becausemichael's already looking did I?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
uh, it wouldn't be the first time.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
You went 0.4 decibels above the ceiling.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It'll be fine.
Fix it in post.
I will fix it in post.
We'll fix it in post.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So, yeah, it's more of a passion project for me.
I love what I get to do.
I love mix with my whole heart.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
But you love mountain biking more.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
It's something crazy that acouple of years ago, as everyone
does, I was dealing with apretty low mental health stage
of my life and found thatcycling and riding my mountain
bike would help me combatagainst that a little bit.
(11:06):
So it's always, it's been apart of my life pretty
consistently for the past coupleof years and being on this, I
mean it's crazy, it's to thenines, like there's a whole
YouTube series about it.
It's all sorts of craziness, um, just lucky, blessed to be a
part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Well, as your friend, I'm very proud of you for even
like walking down this road.
That's crazy.
This isn't like, oh, I'm gonnago run a marathon no, it's like
five marathons in mountains it'scrazy.
When I say I could never, Imean I would die.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
I would physically I would die.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'm from.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Florida.
The highest altitude that I'veever run at is 16 feet above sea
level yeah, I'm from oklahoma,I'm just kidding.
Uh, oh well, that's my life,that's gonna be an adventure.
I can't I literally cannot waitto have you back on this
podcast in the fall and be likehey, how was it?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
it's either I'm gonna I'm probably gonna cry, either
way, yeah, I'm just rememberinghow bad it was it'll be like
experience it.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
How was it?
It's either I'm going to, I'mprobably going to cry either way
, yeah, or just remembering howbad it was.
It'll be a good experience.
It's going to be a goodexperience.
It'll be really cool.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And if you want to follow along, you can follow
Caleb on Instagram at thederoynt, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
At thebirdsong.
That's incredible.
Also, I'm I'm not over the factthat we're moving adult leader
meetings back to the mornings.
I just got settled in to theevenings.
You know what I mean.
What was that about?
Why did we decide that?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
We decided it because pertinent information to last
you for the day is better to belike hey I don't have to sleep
on important information.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
it is better to be like hey, I don't have to sleep
on important information.
Here's everything you need forthe next 12 hours, instead of
here's half of what you need forthe next three hours.
And here's everything you needfor the next eight tomorrow.
After you've slept for twohours, um no, we really enjoyed
the evening ones, like we reallyreally did.
It just logistically works andmakes a ton of sense with the
schedule.
Um, to have that huddle in themornings you know what I love
(13:08):
about mix?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
what do you love about mix?
Always willing to try things.
Always it's like, hey, let'stry it, let's try it.
They did it and you know what?
It wasn't terrible, that's whatwe do.
So, uh, okay, it is officiallytime for the mailbag.
Um, you know, I know it's timefor the mailbag.
(13:29):
My lower back is getting sweaty.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ooh gross, and that means it's time.
I did not know that that washow you Cause my mailman Michael
came in.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Actually, for those of you listening, I will give
you a secret.
There is a certain person inour building, right down the
hall from where we're recordingthis, and it is the one and only
mailman tap he's here.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I did not know that he is here right now.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Now, is he going to be a move this summer?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
no, nope is he going to be a mix?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
nope also now, why could we not have tried to see,
tried to see?
If he could be Mailman Tim forthis episode.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We could have.
I thought about it, but he islike leaving.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
He is, I mean I'm sure, very tight schedule.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, he's a sought after man, but just know he's in
the building.
And boy, can you feel that?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I can feel him.
I was wondering what I wasfeeling.
That's that was it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So anyway, now for mailman pikel.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I'll never measure up um, okay, brad, I sent you
something on instagram lastnight, oh gosh, okay, um did I
see it.
You did see it because I youwere right in front of me right
after I sent it.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Oh, that's right look at your instagram.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yep, I'm just going to read this.
This was from the IGNcomInstagram account.
It was just a headline and whenI read this headline I was a
little confused before I waslike, why would I be confused
about this?
And this headline says Steve ina Minecraft movie was
originally going to be MattBerry, the actor.
(15:07):
So many of our questions in themailbag are from Matt Berry and
I had to take a second toseparate the Matt Berry in our
mailbag Not that Matt Berry andthe Matt Berry that could have
been in a Minecraft movie.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
We did ask for.
We asked for mailbag questionsone time and Mike Berry, it's
Matt Berry, Matt Berry.
Matt Berry left a comment withlike a hundred questions.
I was like sick.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So many questions we're set for life, we're never
going to have to ask again.
And we still have some thatwe've not asked.
I'm going to give Matt a breakon this one, oh.
So, I have a question that I Itoss around um every once in a
while that I enjoy um I hope youguys.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
This is a question from michael.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
This is a question from me.
Thanks for writing in.
Yeah, of course, I would liketo know what is your smallest
regret, something that you doregret, but it's like, whatever
you know it's really not a bigdeal my smallest regret is that,
(16:16):
like what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
like I got a diet dr pepper instead of a diet coke
and I regret like do you regretthat?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
no, but I mean like that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So you've obviously thought about this question.
What's your answer?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
so, uh, last fall I bought a photo printer on ebay,
yeah, and it works only 95percent, like it has actual
defects in the prints which areso unfortunate and make it so
that I can't like I wanted totry and start selling prints and
I can't do that.
But how much did you pay for it?
Like 150 bucks.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Like like a professional photo printer, is
like multiple hundred, likeseveral hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I have since bought a straight replacement for that
printer and it works perfectly.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So you know, yeah, but it's not like.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
It's not like I'm out tons of money or it's not like
you know, it ruined my life,it's just.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I started a garden this year and I regret not
growing carrots.
Oh, I should have done carrots.
That's a good.
I feel like that's my smallestregret.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, my smallest regret is I was going to make a
joke, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Signing up for the Leadville one Maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Maybe my smallest regret is not finishing my
Fairlife protein milk thismorning.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Cause it's 80 degrees outside and that has been
sitting in my truck.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
We have a question from Alex weirdo I love him all
the way from South Florida, allthe way.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Community Christian church.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Alex is asking what are ways that we stay up with
culture in regards to middleschool and high school students?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
huh I, so it's crazy that we talk about this.
We just had a gen alpha studyyesterday we did with ann wilson
from traders point came throughshe's on the board but gave us
that.
Um, I think the goal is like wegotta stop trying to stay up to
(18:29):
um date with them.
The language is different, thevideos are different, the humor
is different.
Um, you can know what they'redoing, so obviously they live
online.
So, as much as you feelcomfortable and healthy to like
live online to understand that alittle bit like you can build
algorithms around what a normalmiddle school boy or high school
(18:53):
girl would be able to look at.
But, dude, I just don't think weneed to run the rat race of
them of trying to keep up.
I just think you need to bewholly you, because that's all
they really want, everythingthat they see online.
There is a twinge of critiqueand caution of like is this real
(19:16):
, Is this legit?
Because we've grown accustomedto everything not being real, no
matter what, and the most realthat you can be with them in the
moment, whether you know thestuff they're talking about or
not.
If you're just wholly you andauthentically real, I think
that's really more importantthan trying to keep up with them
(19:37):
which is a generational shift,like in terms of like students
caring about and looking forauthenticity.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Like the younger somebody is right now, the more
likely they are to like careabout that?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
yeah, I agree with that.
But, like, what's thedifference between, let's say,
when we were coming into college, brad?
millennials yeah, when we weretheir age, like mumford and sons
got big because, like, oh mygosh, they just use acoustic
guitars.
That's authentic.
I think we need to redefine,like our idea of authenticity
(20:15):
and vulnerability is a littlebit different than what theirs
is, um, but also at the sametime, we were not as well
connected to the whole wideworld web and the whole earth at
any moment's notice.
We were just getting into thatI didn't get a Facebook until I
was in college, right, likepeople older than me couldn't
(20:35):
get a Facebook until they werein college because it was only
college.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
You had to have a edu email address to sign up.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It's one of those things that, like, I think we
also need to redefineauthenticity just a little bit
and what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
But that's a tangent.
I mean, there I'm.
I am not negating anything thatyou just said.
It was incredible.
I agree with you 100%.
There is still a sense in whichwe want to like, make t-shirts
that are a junior high studentwants to buy and we want to make
videos that a junior highstudent wants to engage in, but
(21:10):
it's not like I mean with theadvent of phones.
Someone was just on the podcastand said this it's like I can't
.
I think it was jordan francis.
Actually he was like I can'tmake things that are cooler than
what they can find you knowwhat I mean like I can't keep up
like I'll make something coolbecause they think it's cool and
(21:30):
by the time I actually make itand it's any good, that'll be
out of fashion.
And so, like the trends changeso fast now, Like I think the
job of our design team that haveto design shirts four months in
advance for our programs it'sjust getting like harder and
harder over time because itfeels like totally we've gone
(21:53):
from having fads when we weregrowing up to have like meme
culture which is like this isfunny for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And then if that, and then we never think about it
again.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, and if you are a three week runner, then, boy,
you had a good run.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
You had a good run a long time to be funny so yeah,
it is.
That wasn't an answer to thatquestion, but that's what I
thought about yeah, I just thinkit's a rat race.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, you're on the losing side, so we gotta.
We gotta adjust our mindset of,instead of trying to do that,
like be holistic, like, right,holistically, you even in your
design, like what is your design?
Like, okay, cool, it'sdifferent than everything else,
but like just like, yeah, thisis what we got and this is why
(22:43):
we do the t-shirt.
Right, because we do thet-shirt.
Does anyone know why we dot-shirts at CY?
I'll tell you why.
This is tangential, but it'sworth it.
We do t-shirts because that ispotentially a calling card for
any student that buys a t-shirtor a lanyard or a journal or a
hoodie or whatever, to have apiece of tactile clothing from
(23:08):
the week that could potentiallyhave changed their lives.
So for years from now and I'msure some of you who are
listening have some of these-have old t-shirts.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
yeah, yeah, like man.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I gave my life to Jesus at a COI in 2016, and I
still have the t-shirt fromKingdom Workers.
That was the theme.
That was a long answer it wasgood.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I I thought it was great.
It's a great conversation,honestly, like I.
There's a lot more that shouldand can be unpacked there, but,
um, we have a whole interview toget to maybe, uh, what is there
more?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
that's gonna be it for today.
That's gonna be it for today.
Thank you, mailman mailman mikeum.
Mike is a shortened version ofmailman pikel so it becomes
michael, that's how it works Iwas just wondering if we were
gonna like maybe workshop.
Is it like mailman mike, or isit like like parcel pike?
(24:15):
I don't know.
Like parcel pike, yeah you wantto start?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
we're going pike instead of pike.
I have written, I have, I havewritten pike on some things as
like a I have.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I've had other people write pike.
Pike is a fish you don't wantto be named after a fish.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
The weapon is named after the fish.
I will say, uh, but it is aweapon should we interview brand
?
Yeah, let's go.
Uh, mike, I'm super glad you'rehere.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about growth, because you
guys at sun valley communitychurch have just experienced
(24:58):
some insane growth.
I was actually just looking atthe numbers um, in 2021, that
was only four years ago, mike,right well, you know, uh, you
guys brought 212 people to move.
okay, okay, bring in a cool 1156.
(25:19):
We're gonna do easy math andcall that 300 growth over the
course of four years.
Uh, in 2022, you brought 262people to mix and bring about
700 this summer.
I'm not going to try to do themath there, but you guys have
experienced a ton of growth andI know that you're intentional
about wanting to grow and I wantto talk about that a little bit
(25:43):
.
But before we talk about youknow how you guys do that and
and and what you feel like hashelped you along in that journey
I want to know some people.
I feel like some people thinkthat trying to grow numerically
is like icky you know what Imean.
Like there are people that arelike and I understand it.
(26:06):
I understand how theconversation about numbers is
really nuanced and different andI'm just curious why, like,
pursuing numerical growth issomething that you are
passionate about, and I knowthat it's rooted in like
biblical truth and prayer foryou, and just help me navigate
(26:28):
that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Totally for you and I just just help me navigate that
a little bit.
Totally.
Uh, if there's a few places Iwant full, uh, it's heaven and
church, like I don't know.
Uh, yeah, I don't I don't lovewaiting in line at amusement
parks when they're full.
Like I don't, I don't love that.
I don't love a full restaurantwhere I have to wait, um, but
yeah, but yeah, those otherplaces camp, church, heaven,
(26:53):
like let's fill it up, dude.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's a good point, that is that is that's, that's
the goal, um.
So, yeah, I, I, I.
I want to talk about how you dothat, though, because you guys
have obviously experiencedtremendous growth, um, over the
course of the past.
I mean, I only have numbersgoing back for three years for
(27:17):
mix, four years for move,whatever, um, but I'm curious
how you pursue that, how youengage in that, what it looks
like for you to say, hey, let'sgo out there and and and grow
yeah, uh, for me it's nothingcrazy flashy.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Uh, in fact, I I almost, when I see something hit
really quickly, I have a lot ofquestions.
Um, so there was a lot ofgroundwork up to those, those
growth years, um, but, man, justto take it back to what I feel
are like really basic thingswould be healthy growth, so
(27:58):
healthy ways to grow,consistency, like doing the
right thing just over and overand over and over again.
Just a little context we're amulti-site church and so we have
six different campuses, sostaff retention is like where I
started.
I was like let's get the rightpeople in the right places and
(28:20):
keep them there for a reallylong time.
Turnover is always going to, inmy opinion, probably stunt
growth and lose trust withfamilies and all those things
that happen over years and yearsand years.
And then, uh, culture has to berebuilt and things like that.
So, man, right, people, uh,healthy culture and consistency
(28:42):
would be just the foundation ofhow our growth has happened.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
What is unhealthy growth?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
look like our growth has happened.
What is unhealthy growth?
Look like, yeah, and not toknock, like, let's start with
events, but not to knock events.
We do events, but I think thereare probably a lot of event
driven ministries out there.
Let's equate it to like a fire,right, like everyone needs a
spark to get started, whichcould be those events, like,
(29:10):
let's say, sparks are events, um, and then let's talk about
programming.
There's a lot of program heavy,uh ministries out there.
Those would be like the logs onthe fire.
These are like the staples thatwe do.
These are the things we do, ourprogram, um, but for me, I feel
like where it gets really goodand healthy and uh, lasting is
(29:34):
that that ember in the fire.
Like once it's been going for alittle bit, you get those
embers, um, and that, to me,would be relationships.
So we, we are relationshipdriven ministry.
Uh, we have a program.
We do events every now and then, but our bread and butter is
connection, right, so, helpingstudents connect with other
(29:57):
students and with caring adults,so they're volunteers and
allowing that to be the the.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
The thing that keeps the fire going, that continues
to fuel what we do, isrelationships well, I know I
want to talk about the, becausethe two things that you've said
tie together obviously therelational aspect and the staff
retention aspect.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I know that, caleb, the staff retention piece
and the staff care piece issomething that you care a lot
about, um, so I know that youjust kind of had some thoughts
about that, or I don't know yeah, uh, I mean, mike, we've worked
together, for when you workedhere, uh, we worked together for
(30:46):
years and I think one of thethings from afar that I look up
to you in a lot of ways is justthe intentionality you go about
hiring the right person and theright people for your team.
So could you explain just alittle bit?
Like you had mentioned, we needto put the right people in the
right places.
Was that a shift for you?
(31:07):
Was that something that you'vealways kind of thought?
How has it paid off?
What are some ways?
Like honestly, I think we needto hear the other side of it too
, of like, sometimes the rightpeople are not in the right spot
and they may be great people,but they're not in the right
spot, so we need to shift themsomewhere else.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That's kind of an umbrella of a question, but many
, many conversations can comeout of that, but many many
conversations can come out ofthat, yeah, so I'll go back to
the culture piece when we'relooking to hire someone.
(31:44):
That's a huge part of how Ithink that at least at Sun
Valley, we've been able to findthe right people and have the
growth that we've had is becauseour culture is actually really,
really strong.
My personal experience a lot ofchurches have their statements
and their vision statements andthis is who we are and it looks
really good on paper, but itdoesn't always play out in
reality.
(32:04):
Something I feel is unique towhere we're at is we have a
strong culture on paper thatmatches reality.
That's cool, yeah, that's greatwhat we do and so, yeah,
through interview processes orthrough growing up internal
leaders that become pastorsinside of our church, that
(32:27):
culture, that DNA, is a really,really important thing that we
look for and that we'd see ifsomeone's teachable, coachable
and can come on board with theculture.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, that idea of having super strong value
statements and missions, but itnot being the practical, so this
is a sidebar, but I'm in schoolright now.
Graduate in a month, thank theLord.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Hold for applause.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But that's like one of the things right, Like
organizations often Getting yourhigh school diploma.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, yeah, finally.
Good for you, man, that's more.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Jaguar.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Congratulations 25.
Is that a thing?
I was homeschooled.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
So 25.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Let's go.
Is that a thing?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I was homeschooled A high school diploma, did you say
are you eating your diploma?
I said are you?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
getting your diploma.
Okay, I was like phew, Imisheard.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
No, people don't eat their diplomas.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
All right, but it sounds like a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
But if someone did, it would be Throw the hat yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
No, all that to say, like, oftentimes, people we come
up with that's just even pareit down to like sun valley youth
group or sun valley students.
We come up with these huge,grandiose vision statements of
we want to change the world andwe want to equip the next
leaders of whatever, and whilethose are cool and flowery, like
what are we practically doingto live that out?
And so it's super encouragingto hear that, like your vision
and mission match with, like,the actions of the staff.
(33:57):
That's just not always the mostcommon.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well and I'm thinking like not everybody has a youth
ministry staff right, likethere's a youth pastor out there
listening to this who can'thire anybody yeah, and your team
is your volunteers.
And I know Like there's there'sa youth pastor out there
listening to this who can't hireanybody yeah, and your team is
your volunteers.
And I know I was going to saythey're hiring volunteers, but
yeah but like how we do thatmatters, and I think, like
standing on a stage and sayingis there any person over the age
(34:24):
of 18 with a pulse who wants tohang out with high school
students?
Is is probably not like the wayto create some of the longevity
and the strength of culturethat you're talking about.
You know what I mean, Causethere it sounds to me like you
would say, Mike, there are a lotof great youth pastors out
there that sun Valley is nottheir place and it's not a value
(34:45):
statement about them as a youthpastor, but this is just not
the right spot for them.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yeah, a hundred percent for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, how.
So yeah, to go back, how havethose conversations went?
And edifying ways, because thething about some values there's
not just like a lot of turnover,like people aren't just like
quitting or getting fired, um,but there are people that are
not always in the right spot.
(35:12):
So you don't have to give likea literal example, but like how
do you approach something likethat of like you know what this
person is, great, they would bereally great over here, better
than what they are in thisparticular role.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Yeah, so one of our leadership distinctives, like a
part of our DNA, is we lovefirst, lead second, but always
do both.
So love first, lead second,always do both employees or our
(35:52):
people really well.
Um, I feel like that that givesme the platform to then speak
into how to lead them.
Yeah, uh, and, and if I'm doingboth, I feel like that
conversation is actually reallynatural and not awkward and not
sure, not intimidating or likewhat do you mean?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
um, no, it's based on yeah, it's based off building
them up.
At that point it's like, hey, Iknow you and I love you and
here are things that you'rereally good at, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, what's been the payoff?
Like you get to Sun Valley inwhat year?
2019.
2019, coming from CIY?
Yeah, you begin this process oflike.
Hey, I'm really, really goingto invest a lot in this team and
(36:35):
in this culture and make itstrong, and I want to try to
reduce turnover so that we canbuild strong relationships and
continue to see this ministrygrow.
What, like, how?
What does your staff look likenow in terms of how you feel
like you've grayed yourselfalmost is what I'm saying.
(36:57):
You know I do.
What's the fruit that you'veseen come out of?
That, I guess, is what the realquestion I'm asking is.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, so it was, you know, hard at first because some
things did need to change andsome people did need to either
exit the team or shift toanother role.
In terms of the newer directionwe were going with things, but
(37:28):
that brought about some healthychange and some good momentum,
um, and then I would say thatstaff is is one part of it.
Um, the flip side of the coinis we also, you know, started to
mess with philosophy like hey,what, what are we doing?
(37:49):
Why are we doing what we'redoing?
How are we going to executethat?
Um, so some of that shifted andchanged as well.
Uh, so people and mind mindsetshifts um, occurred in those
first like 18 months or so.
Uh, and the longevity that thatthat has afforded us has played
(38:13):
out really well.
But it was a battle to start.
One of my first real thingsthat I needed to go to bat for
was actually a salary increase.
I had to go to our HRdepartment and be like, hey,
here's the vision.
I need people here long term.
I need people that, if theyhave a family, hey, here's the
vision.
I need people here long-term.
I need people that, if theyhave a family, they can keep
(38:34):
doing this job.
I need you know, like all ofthat was a conversation and so,
um, that upped and and we have agreat uh HR department and they
realized what, what washappening and where we're going
and what we needed to accomplish.
Um, so, like that was one ofthe foundational things of like
just being able to make thisviable for a long time, if that
(38:57):
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, it totally does , and I think it's really cool
that I I feel like a lot ofpeople would expect a podcast
like this to start.
Hey, how do you intentionallygrow and somebody to start
rattling off programming changesthat they made?
You know what I mean.
Well, we started doing wouldexpect a podcast like this to
start.
Hey, how do you intentionallygrow and somebody to start
rattling off programming changesthat they made?
You know what I mean.
Well, we started doing this andwe stopped doing this.
And we, you know, and I, youknow, I'm sure there's a place
(39:19):
for that.
I'm sure you know likeprogramming is important.
I'm.
The philosophy, uh, the, the,the longevity, the people,
making sure they're in the rightspot, is actually something
(39:39):
that matters more, probably, toto creating and fostering growth
than any individual thing thatyou might do or not.
Do you know, um?
Did you like was, was, wasprogramming those first 18
months when you were talkingabout man?
We really need to instill theculture.
We need to, um, come up withwhat our philosophy is going to
(40:00):
be.
We need to get the right peoplein the right seats on the bus.
Tough 18 months.
Um was pro.
What role did programming playin all of that.
Was that on your mind at all?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
It was, yeah, and we can talk through some of that
too if you'd like, but we hadlike.
So 2020 happened and the worldshut down for a second, which
was actually a really silverlining moment for us, because we
could hit, like a really hardreset when we, when we came back
(40:31):
together and since we is also,I'm in arizona, so we were only
shut down for like a second amonth and a half because we're
the wild west, right, uh.
But um, yeah, when we came backto it it was just like and now
we're gonna do this and no onereally questioned, questioned
the change.
(40:51):
So I admit it probably wouldhave taken longer, like a longer
runway, to make some of thosechanges without that opportunity
.
But, that being said, it was areally good, just fresh start
for us on the programming sideof things.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So all we need to do is incite a global pandemic.
If nope, we went, no or okayjust manufacture.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Just manufacture it like things aren't going really
well where you're at.
I mean, there is, there isreally clear data that says it's
okay to like stop something andthen start something.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah you know, I mean momentum.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Momentum happens when you can celebrate and end
something, and when you cancelebrate and start something
right.
So they're like you couldartificially create, like a stop
and a start wherever you're atand there are like times of the
year when that happens,naturally.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Anyway, you know like coming back after the summer or
the beginning of the calendaryear.
Yeah, that's interesting.
So just like taking a deepbreath as a ministry.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
you know that's interesting, that's cool, yeah,
especially because I meanobviously we hear that and we're
like, yeah, totally, totallyget it.
But I'm already thinking aboutlike the next two months of
programming that I have to do.
So it's like I could never.
I could never stop this, Icould never like pause for a
moment.
But no, that's good, that'sreally good.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Well, I feel like so much programming is um comes
from a template.
Now, anyway, you know like I'mdeciding am I a Sunday youth
ministry person or am I aWednesday youth ministry person?
And you know like everythingfeels like it's very much in
this box and I have to.
You know, choose like, pick myoptions out of there.
(42:43):
Was there any ways that youguys just kind of like got
really creative and were likewe're going to throw all of this
out and just do what we feellike is going to work for sun
valley?
Speaker 4 (42:52):
yes, and it's so interesting.
You say like I'm either this orthis, we're actually all of it,
uh.
So like we have weekendservices for uh for our students
and we provide midweek smallgroups for our students and we
(43:15):
can kind of talk like programhere in more in depth in a
second.
But what I want to say on thiskind of particular thing is,
since we're relationally focused, we're going to cast a net
wherever we can to connect withstudents right.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Create as many assessments as you can.
How do you do that withoutmaking your staff pull their
hair out and quit?
You know what I mean?
You pay them more.
What?
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (43:39):
you pay them more.
You pay them more.
No, you create, like we createa really healthy flow for them.
So another one of our like DNAthings is uh, like effort, like
we work hard, we give our best,but we put our family first is
(43:59):
kind of like our, our phrase forthat distinctive Um.
And so, yeah, we expect a lotfrom our, our pastors, our
employees.
We expect a lot from ourvolunteers too, um, but we do it
in a really healthy way thatcan last.
So the weekend comes everyweekend, right, but strategic
moments where, whether it'sEaster or Christmas, like our
(44:22):
students are joining the adultservices and our pastoral staff
is helping in a different waywith the church overall.
But then our midweek it justfollows the school year, so we
take breaks.
When the school takes breaks,like every family is going to
enjoy that.
All of our volunteers love thetime off or the little break and
(44:42):
it's natural, again, it's inthat calendar year.
So summer's off, spring break,fall break we have fall break
here in Arizona.
Summer's off, spring break,fall break we have fall break
here in arizona.
Um, and then nice, uh like,like after thanksgiving, through
the new year, we take those,those time periods off yeah, no,
that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
And as you were saying it, I was thinking about
the like relational youthministry thing.
It's like if that's going to beyour thing, if that's your core
value, then you have to createspaces where that can happen.
So even that, you know, I Ifeel like there's a way to do a
lot in a way that is not reallymissional, just to do a lot, you
(45:25):
know what I mean.
Like I feel like I should haveprogramming in the middle of the
week and should haveprogramming on the weekends, and
you know, my senior pastortells me that I have to do
Sunday school and so we're justgoing to kind of do all this
stuff as like a, a piecemealkind of thing.
But when it's intentional andyou know, like, okay, the goal
(45:46):
of every single thing that we dois going to be relational
connection, then it becomes kindof a different thing, which I
think is really cool.
I also love the idea of justsaying outright like we expect a
lot from our volunteers,because I feel like in the same,
like same scenario where youthpastor stands on stage on a
(46:09):
Sunday and says, hey, anyonewho's an adult with a pulse we
need you probably also saysit'll be easy, it's fun, it's
just hanging out with kids, youknow, and you'll have a great
time.
So I feel like there's somelike honesty that you have built
into your culture.
That is probably really helpfultoo.
(46:31):
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, and here's another thing when it comes to
volunteers, that kind of sparkedwhen you said that I have this
philosophy, this mentality thatevery volunteer at our church is
a student volunteer.
Like, okay, you're in kidsministry but a student is
(47:01):
volunteering next to you in thatkids classroom.
You're a student volunteer,right.
You're in parking lot ministry,you're a greeter, but there's a
student that's serving in thatarea.
You are walking along thatstudent.
So like, you are a studentvolunteer.
And so we've been reallyintentional about trying to
partner with other ministriesinside the church to make sure
(47:25):
that they understand thatthey're also a significant adult
in the life of that student,relationally right, yeah, we
have a text message that goesout to a few thousand people
that pray for our students.
They're a part of our studentministry.
Do I ever see them?
Most of them know, yeah, butthey're grandmas and grandpas
(47:47):
and aunts, andts and uncles orlike they're.
They are the, the businessmanthat travels a ton but can get
that text message and take timeand pray for our students, and
so, um, yeah, that's been a hugemindset shift to try to try to
equip the saints in our churchand say like, no, no, no, no, no
, no.
This generation needs and wantsand values what you have to
(48:10):
offer.
However, you offer it.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Well, yeah, and I definitely want to lean into
this a little bit, because SunValley takes kind of a holistic
approach to student ministry asI understand it, that you're
coming in and saying, hey, let'spartner together children's
ministry volunteers becauseyou're going to be helping us
(48:33):
reach our goals of havingstudents find these relational
connections.
So what is the buy-in of yourupper levels of leadership in
student ministry?
Kind of look like at Sun Valley, Because it sounds like it's
very strong.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Yeah, it is.
So I'm going to say somethingthat's going to sound like a dig
about leadership, but it's not,and then I'm going to
compliment it afterwards.
So when I first came studentminist, it wasn't.
Student ministries wasn'treally in a healthy spot and our
(49:13):
leadership didn't really talkabout it from stage a ton.
They didn't highlight it a ton.
Um, they weren't making big uhasks for offering for camp or
things like that, which we cantalk about too if you want to.
But, um, they literally like wesat down together and they said
(49:34):
, hey, we're not going to fuelthis until you're ready,
interesting.
And so it was kind of on me tobe like when, when are we going
to be healthy enough to where itmakes sense that our leadership
really backs this?
Because they're not going tomake, they're not going to say
like, go serve in studentministries, and then it'd be a
(49:55):
horrible experience, Right Causethey just lost, they just lost
trust with with the congregation, and so, um, yeah it.
It took a couple years for us tothen be like and hey, we're
ready now.
You know what I mean.
And then it was like let's pourgas on this fire, let's support
(50:15):
it.
We take an offering at Easterand Christmas.
That always kind of goesoutside our walls or to
something beyond kind of justour general offering Right, to
something beyond, um, kind ofjust our general offering, right
.
So, uh, we just said, hey, whatif our Christmas offering went
(50:36):
to scholarship summer camp foranybody who really wants to go
in our community?
It would be really easy.
Ask for our people to invitepeople when it's not you know
umpteen hundred or a thousanddollars to go to this camp.
Um, you know what if it wassuper attainable?
And year one of that, uh, our,our people give a million
dollars, uh, just to subsidizethe cost of camp across from our
(50:59):
kids day camp to our preteencamp, to our junior high and
high school camps.
Um, yeah, it just brought thecost from like man, it's really
expensive, especially if youhave multiple kids.
Uh, down to like, oh, that's areally easy, yes, attainable
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That's incredible because I'm trying to imagine
all of the different ways thatconversation can go.
Like at some point I'm guessingit was you somebody sat down
with somebody at an executiveleadership level senior pastor,
executive pastor or whatever andsaid hey, I know this offering
(51:36):
usually goes to fill in theblank.
Let's give it to me so that Ican use it to scholarship
students instead, studentsinstead.
Like yeah, I feel like nine,nine times out of ten, that
conversation is gonna fall flat.
But the fact that your, yourleadership, said, no, we totally
(51:57):
see the value in this and buyinto it, um, I think it's just
like a really, really cool thing.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
That's incredible and I also see, like right, you
mentioned, from your point ofview, the groundwork that you
intentionally laid to be able togrow well, but also the, the
reins being held back just a bitby leadership, to know like,
hey, we want to do this, likethat partnership was always on
their heart and on their mind.
(52:25):
We don't want to do it whenyou're not ready.
So there's wisdom, like fromboth ends coming up and meeting
in this middle.
That has created these lastfour years to be just like going
gangbusters right, like thingsare popping off and it's super
fun and it's cool to be around.
Like I'm not I don't go to SunValley, that would be a crazy
(52:46):
Sunday commute for me, but Imean it's honestly like I look
forward to it every year and youand your whole staff are very
near and dear to my hearts andyou guys have welcomed me in
because we do middle school camptogether every summer in June
in New Mexico and it'sinfectious to be a part of and
(53:09):
the amount of like just campuspastors I've met that I'm now
friends with, it's like you cansee.
It's very much top down, bottomup, like everyone's on the same
page, and it's really, reallycool to see.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
It does sound like an awesome church.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Never been, but um it is in phoenix yeah right, I
mean, I'm that's, it's I'm gamefor phoenix um, I'm super not
I'm.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I hear it's a great coffee city, true I don't know,
I don't mike doesn't drinkcoffee.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
You don't drink coffee, no ask, ask mike britton
what his coffee order what'syour coffee order at Starbucks?
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Hot chocolate, no whipped cream, but a little
cooler temperature, so I candrink it right away.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Which is commonly referred to.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
The Michaels on this podcast are in full agreement
right now it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
I think Starbucks hot chocolate is better than most
coffee shops.
Hot chocolate there you go.
I can honestly sit here and sayI've never had hot chocolate is
better than most coffee shops.
Hot chocolate there you go.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
I can honestly sit here and say I've never had a
coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
Anyway, dang it, it's just, it's one of those things
that I'm like.
If they're hot chocolates, good, maybe other things are good.
Now, starbucks is maybe anexception there, but I've been
to a lot of coffee shops thathave bad hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, that's because they're coffee shops, michael,
not ice cream parlors.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Anyway, you said something really interesting.
No, we've got to get back ontrack.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
We're almost out.
You remember that one time,brandon, did you go to Six Flags
with us when I came down toDallas for that belief.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
And we all went and rode roller coasters and Michael
paid the entrance fee plus anextra fee just so he could go to
the haunted houses.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Hey, I had a great time.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
No roller coasters, just haunted houses.
No coffee, just hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Wild roller coasters, just haunted houses.
No coffee, just hot chocolate.
Yep, wild, um, all right.
So I what we were talking aboutbefore someone derailed the
conversation, I don't evenremember who, uh, probably me,
it was me.
Um was caleb was talking abouthow he really respects that.
Your leadership was like yeah,we want to pour into this.
Let us know when you're ready.
Um, when, what made you ready?
(55:32):
You know what I mean.
When did you pull the triggeron that and what had changed at
that point?
Where was the ministry?
I don't know what question I'meven really asking, like what?
switch what switch flipped thatyou were like, we're ready,
let's go.
Speaker 4 (55:46):
Like what switch?
What switch flipped that youwere like we're ready, let's go.
Yep, no, that is a, that is aan amazing question because
there's so many nuances to it,cause you're like I don't even
know what to ask, and I think alot of people don't know what to
even look for or ask in thatscenario, like when would we be
healthy and that's that's how Itake the question when would we
(56:09):
be healthy enough to get fuelfor this fire?
Right, for me there was a fewdifferent things that I needed.
I needed perception to changewas kind of one of the first
things.
We came again from pre-COVID.
Our program then was studentministries once a week on Sunday
evenings, and that was apartfrom our adult services, and it
(56:35):
wasn't going really well Cause Ithink they were trying to do
two things in one thing they'retrying to do the big program,
large group production and smallgroup conversations.
And from when I came in andkind of looked at that, I was
like there's a lot going on here.
One, I think students aren't asimpressed with the program as
(57:01):
we think they are.
And then, two, I would not callthem small groups, what were
happening, I would call themdiscussion groups because they
were not consistent students orconsistent leaders from week to
week and so they weren'tinvesting relationally into them
even outside of that one twohours window Right and then two
from a church's overallstandpoint, since they weren't
(57:25):
ever seeing students getinvolved, because what had
happened when they moved awayfrom attending on the services
that coincide with adultservices is our students that
served also tanked.
So now there's no realincentive for a student to go to
(57:47):
church when the adults arethere.
They're just going in there attheir own moment during the week
, which, from a churchperspective, is like where are
all the youth?
It doesn't feel good actually,from a collective church body.
It feels like something ismissing because it was missing,
(58:08):
and so I feel like we needed tochange that narrative, we needed
to change that perspective, andso we went back to junior, high
, high school, preteen, allthose people meeting at the same
times as the adults weremeeting, and so they were on
camps, and then we actually setup like, like large group.
We did we do three things right, we do small groups, large
(58:32):
group and then students serving.
Those were like our three bigpriorities that we wanted to
like push, but we they're inpriority order.
So students in a small groupwas number one, students serving
was number two, and thenstudents coming to a large group
like format program.
That was like our thirdpriority, and so we invested
(58:55):
more into small groups andstudents serving than we did in
our large group times.
But that was one of thoseindicators that helped shift and
change was church perspective.
Then volunteer buy-in, likeleaders coming on board, having
that everyone wants to join awinning team.
(59:17):
It didn't seem like we werewinning in the moment.
Even though great things werehappening, god was still working
in individuals' lives.
Not to diminish any of thatthat was happening, but from an
outsider's perspective it didn'tseem like we were winning and
so we needed to change that.
We needed to have volunteersexcited about doing what they're
(59:38):
doing and become thoseevangelists to other people to
like, hey, come join the team.
And so we shifted words buildworlds right.
So we shifted a lot ofvernacular.
We intentionally set up thisvocabulary that we said on
repeat over and over and overand over and over and over.
So people were like, oh, that'swhat's happening, oh, okay, and
(01:00:00):
it's something that they wantedto join.
And then, along with gettingthe right people in places, in
leadership spots.
When those kind of three thingsall like began to sync together
, that's when I felt like wewere ready for an influx of
support.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Sure, did I interrupt you earlier?
Were you going to jump in withsomething?
If not it's okay, I just feltlike I interrupted you.
Nope, okay, great, um.
So that's all really incrediblestuff and I think, um, like
there's a reverse mentality ofthat.
(01:00:37):
That's like let's get a bunchof kids in the door to create
some energy, and then we'll beable to kind of like create some
of the experiences that we want.
Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
So I love that perspective of and I would
honestly say that's kind of likewhen I just look at youth
ministry big umbrella, this is abig umbrella statement, so
don't take it the wrong way.
I would say, like those flashesin the pan actually are more
detrimental than helpful in thelong run.
Why actually are moredetrimental than helpful in the
long run?
Why?
(01:01:08):
Because it creates this likefalse sense of like we did
something really big and greatand it's like man, if you had
people show up for one thing andthen like you don't see them
the rest of the year or youdon't invest in them, no one's
praying for them, no one's likeI don't know if that was really
successful.
Like you got to gauge your winsand so you could throw a really
(01:01:35):
great event and like have thatone spark, but you, you're
missing all those embers right.
Like you're missing, um, thatlasting warmth that draws more
people in.
I would say like that type ofenvironment, that type of warmth
, draws more people than a, thana spark, than like a we're
getting something started orthrowing a big party yeah, or
like lighter fluid.
Like you throw a lighter fluidon a fire, it goes out real,
(01:01:57):
real fast yeah, and to ourleadership's credit, they could
have, you know, poured gas onthat fire at the very beginning
and it could have spiked, but wewouldn't have been ready, right
like we wouldn't havemaintained that momentum yeah,
that's super interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
So, shoot, I had something along the lines of
that.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Well, while you think of it, I can okay, nope, I was
just gonna say I can't get pastthe fact that we're using a fire
analogy to talk about mike'schurch in pho, arizona.
It's like how often?
Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
how often do you have fires, mike?
96 degrees.
It's fire outside all summer.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
No, no, no, no, no.
But I see that and it'sinteresting.
So I wonder if there's a playboy.
I am by no means somebody whocan speak to like the psyche of
the United States of America,nor would I want to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Big job.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
But right, like anyone can get famous for a
minute, Anyone can make it.
Mr Beast has thrown out $10million to somebody who is
picking a case Like this idea isso prevalent in our culture
that it's almost counterculturalthat you took the time to build
the support and the base thatcould withstand a windfall of
(01:03:16):
growth, because oftentimes it'sthe flip side, and I'm I would
just be interested that's,that's worth somebody like who's
listening to this to study thatand write a book on it.
Because, like, legitimately,like I think there's something
there of we had a really greatcouple summers or we have these
three events during the yearthat, like we already know,
(01:03:37):
students from other churches aregoing to come through.
So my question to you is of,let's say, let's just pick your
middle school numbers of all thestudents that are coming to
middle school camp this year youmay know it, you may not know
it what percentage are actuallyplugged in throughout the year?
Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Yeah, I can make up a number and it might sound
really good.
But instead of numbers but I'lltalk instead of like numbers
I'll kind of talk like, um, howwe've seen, instead of like the
wave that that crashes duringsummer, yeah, after every summer
, we've seen like the waterlevel rise, if that.
(01:04:21):
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, and so Iknow brand new people are coming
to.
You know camps and things likethat.
Um, I, I know that there are,since it's at a lower cost.
There are some other kids thatcome from other churches.
Um, and we're not, we're notgoing to like, say no to that
that's not our intent or ourdesire, um, but also, uh, if I'm
(01:04:46):
just looking at the kingdom,like we're all on the same team
doesn't matter.
Yeah, we provide a really greatexperience for them to
encounter god, like I don't knowif there's anything wrong with
that, yeah, uh.
And then I will say, like, weuse summer camp as the beginning
of our year, so it likelaunches all of that relational
equity into small groups, um,where some people might use it
(01:05:09):
as, like a culmination.
We, we always see it as abeginning.
Um, but that big wave thatcrashes for summer every every
year after the water level risesum after those moments, and so
that's where I kind of gaugesuccess or how we, how well
we've done, is like, okay, wehave this big uh thing happened,
(01:05:30):
but did it stick Like um?
Is that is that kind of helpinganswer that?
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
That does.
Yeah, I mean cause that's.
That's just the intentionalityand the base that you guys have
built to be able to have that.
Like that, water level isrising.
All right, we're going to letyou go here that, like that
water level is rising.
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
All right, we're going to let you go here in a
second, mike, but I want to.
Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
He's super frozen Huh .
Mike is super frozen, uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
He's back.
Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
He's back baby.
Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
I lost about four seconds.
Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Yeah, it was a good four set.
You missed a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
I gave the secret to growth?
Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
um, we're gonna let you go here in a sec.
Uh, you've been great, givingus a lot of good stuff to chew
on.
I think my biggest takeaway hasto do with, like, the
collaboration that you have, um,or maybe that you I'm sure you
maintain that collaboration, butthe collaboration, really
honestly, that you had when youstarted um with leadership, for
(01:06:32):
them to be able to say you know,um, we want to see a student
ministry grow.
We want to see it grow, um, ina healthy way.
So let's work together andlet's so, um, I do wonder how
many student pastors out thereare almost have like the
opposite problem where they achurch hires student pastor, um,
(01:06:58):
let's call him Dale, his nameis Dale and they've hired Dale
and they expect for his hiringto bring a lot of great like
momentum to the ministry andhe's a really exciting guy and
they're excited, um, and hemight have every intention of
taking your philosophy, but then, six months in, he's getting
(01:07:20):
called into his senior pastor'soffice Like hey, man, it feels
like we're not really seeing.
You know a lot, of a lot ofchange here I wonder how you
would like encourage that typeof person, you know yeah, that's
(01:07:41):
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
Uh, I think a lot of this hinges on leadership's
perspective, right?
Like my personal opinion is,you don't even get your feet
under you until year two.
And so, man, if you're sittingthere six months into somewhere
and things aren't as expected, Itry to have really open, honest
conversations on expectationsand and and then try to like
(01:08:10):
parse that out into attainable,attainable chunks.
Like, hey, in four months canwe set this goal?
In another four months Can weset this goal with that Show you
that we're on the right track.
(01:08:33):
And no, no, no knock againstleadership, but sometimes
they're.
They only look at the, the oneor two things that come across
their their desk.
Some, some of them, aren'tsuper involved.
So I would invite themstrategically to a few things so
that they're seeing the goodthat's happening in the midst of
growth, if that makes sense.
So instead of you know, oh, wehave a one-on-one quarterly or
(01:08:55):
whatever that might be, I wouldup the frequency of that type of
conversation if and whenpossible, but then include them
in or invite them in on aWednesday night or whatever.
But have them, don't just comeand like see it.
Have them come and hear it.
And what I mean by hear it isto hear the conversation or the
(01:09:19):
wins that your volunteers aresharing afterwards.
Hopefully, you're celebratingthe things God's doing, um, and
you're vocalizing that with yourteam and your volunteers.
Make sure your leadership hearsthose wins, not necessarily
just from your mouth, but fromyour volunteers mouth.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
That's really good.
Uh, it's good stuff.
It's a good note to end on.
I it michael mike.
Appreciate you, man.
It's really great having youhonestly um I hope you enjoy a
nice lukewarm hot chocolate forthe job well done today done.
Thanks for being here, bro yeah, absolutely okay, well, that
(01:10:06):
was a fun conversation.
Thanks for hanging out.
I think mike uh, he's had a lotof things that I just don't
know that I've ever heard saidthat in like a cons, he says
things, he chooses his wordscarefully, he says things in a
really concise way.
That's like piercing and um yeahjust thinking about the value
of relational youth ministry, Ithink, is something that's going
(01:10:27):
to stick with me for a minute.
I love that.
Mikey B, mikey B, alright,caleb, our time together is
drawing to a close.
Will you wrap this up byreading our blessing, please?
Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
absolutely may God show you grace and bless you.
May he make his face shine onyou.
May you experience the love ofChrist, through whom God gives
you fullness of life.
May you be strengthened by hispower.
May Christ himself make hishome in your heart, that you
(01:11:02):
would be full of his love andgrace and that those you serve
would see Jesus in you.
Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester,
lauren Bryan and myself.
Thank you to Mike Branton forbeing with us today and for
sharing a lot of really greatstuff.
Thanks to Caleb as well, ourdirector of Mix, for hanging out
before what's going to be anawesome summer.
We're going to be back in acouple weeks.
We are winding down toward theend of our season.
I think we only have twoepisodes left, but we will be
(01:11:31):
back in a couple of weeks totalk to somebody about something
, and in the meantime, you cansubscribe to this show on
YouTube or wherever you listento podcasts.
You can also reach us by emailat podcast at cicom.
You can also reach us on theCYY Community Facebook group,
and that's all the ways you canreach us.
(01:11:51):
We'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Hello, I am Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, ayouth ministry podcast presented
by Christ in Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Today we're going to be talkingto Mike Branton.
Michael Branton is a pastor inthe Phoenix area in Arizona.
(00:25):
He is at Sun Valley CommunityChurch.
He was on staff at Christ inYouth for several years working
with Believe and he's just areally great, insightful,
thoughtful guy and we're goingto talk about a lot of great
things and I'm excited for youto hear from him.
But before we do that, I amjoined by my good friend, caleb
(00:49):
DeRoyne.
Hi, caleb.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm just fired up to be here, all right.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm just happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm just fired up to be here.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's something.
So today is a weird day for me.
I just want to like leteverybody know that if I'm weird
today, I got my tonsils takenout two weeks ago.
I don't know if any of you haveever had your tonsils taken out
as an adult human being, but itis the actual worst thing in
(01:22):
the world.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I hated every second of the recovery, the first 10
days after were like the world.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm so sorry.
I hated every second of therecovery.
The first 10 days after werelike the worst, but I still like
.
It's over two weeks after and Istill feel like.
I think that I sound weirdright now.
Do I sound the same?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
to you.
You sound like Brad.
Well, that's good.
You sound mostly normal,because my throat hurts.
Don't say mostly normal.
He's going to internalize that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Okay, you know me so well.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You sound normal.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Now, when I came over a week ago, you did not sound
normal About a week ago, anyway,so I might say some crazy
things, who knows?
Also a weird day, because it'sboard meeting day today.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is board meeting day and my wife's birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And Alexis's birthday Shout out on the podcast.
Shout out on the podcast.
Shout out on the podcast toalexis deroyan, who is in
marketing and not going tolisten to this a hundred percent
.
So, um, one of my favoritethings about my friendship with
caleb is when I first started atciy was like right after you
got married.
Um, when you got married inlike november of 2017, and I
(02:22):
started in january of 18 yeah,so like married.
Caleb was still a fairly newperson trying to figure it out.
He like had only existed for avery short period of time, but
alexis's maiden name is birdsong it is, which is like a
great name.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
It is and everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
everyone was like why you should have taken her name
and called you caleb bird songall the time, or you guys would
be coming to a party and peoplewould be like the bird songs are
coming the bird songs are here.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's true, that used to happen a lot.
My grandfather would cry I amthe only heir of my name.
Yeah, and now my son, so itlives on.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I am the only heir of my name and I don't have a son,
so you'll get there.
You could be an indie music duoas the bird songs, the bird
songs, you guys could.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, one of you can play the mandolin.
Uh-huh, yeah, you can play themandolin and I'll play the zoe
de chanel role yeah, anyway,it's board meeting day today.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
There's a lot of great people in the building um
running around.
It's an exciting day today.
There's a lot of great peoplein the building running around.
It's an exciting day.
But really we don't need totalk about board meetings.
That would be like the lamestpossible thing to talk about,
but it is a milestone day everyyear.
It's like we have boardmeetings and then it's summer,
it's coming fast.
You know, what I mean.
(03:41):
Like you always, caleb.
We have a monthly all staffmeeting that, Caleb, you get to
talk about, like mix a littlebit, and every single one of
those meetings and you alwaysget up and you're like this many
days until, um, until we, youknow, I don't know what that
number is, but it has got to beless than it's less 45 days it's
(04:08):
less.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's less than 30.
It's less than 30 like workingdays yeah, less than 30 business
days.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Uh, let's see my heavens, we're like, we're.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think we're like 32 , 30, somewhere around 32 days.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, he's got it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Just days total.
We're like 31, 32 days from ourproduction contractors showing
up.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It is until yes.
So the production people showup a week before the event staff
do, but general event staffshow up in 28 business days From
the day of recording.
From the day of recording.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean, this podcast comes out in three days, so 25
for you listening at home.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh my heavens.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You're just not on top of your podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Somebody listening to this four years from now is
going to be like what are theytalking about?
When did they get?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
there Years ago.
Did they ever make it Anyway?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
summer is coming and it's the best time.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
It is.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I love summer.
I love mix.
Going to get to do a couple offun mix things.
What are we excited about formix this year?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Man, I'm excited about this theme.
I'm excited about for Mix thisyear.
What's going on, man, I'mexcited about this theme I'm
excited about.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I mean just In between, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Even talking about in between is so prevalent for
sixth, seventh and eighthgraders, especially because
they're in middle school.
Right, they're in middle school.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, it's called middle school.
Yeah, it might as well's calledmiddle school.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, like it might as well be called between school
a hundred percent, and so thisis just so well tailored for
them and we're gonna get to beable to tackle some pretty heavy
texts from hebrews and make itreally, really cool and unique
for them.
And so I'm excited to just hangout with uh, with churches that
I know and love this summer andmeet new churches that I've
(06:06):
never met before, and I'm justready for the craziness of
summer.
There's something about theadrenaline and the alive and
having to figure out problemsand put out fires but also be so
in tune and surrounded by theholy spirit, doing unbelievable
stuff that it's like, yeah, Icouldn't wait, I just yeah, it's
(06:31):
, it's gonna be so great andboard meeting day is like when
it starts now we're we're infifth gear and we're not coming
back until august how does?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
that make you feel are you ready?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
are you ready to be in fifth gear?
I always live my life in fifthgear, baby okay, let's talk a
little bit about your august.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Um, you're doing something exciting, yeah, which
is going to leadville, colorado.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I am going to leadville, colorado, to
participate in a very cool event.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yes, and I haven't really talked to you about it,
so I want to hear about it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
So if you are listening to this, there is a YouTube series
called From the Ground Up, andthey pick some pretty novice
mountain bikers.
I am novice, I like to ride,but nothing crazy.
It's more of just like a mentalhealth break for me to go ride
my bike.
But they pick you and theytrain you up for a few months to
(07:24):
go ride my bike, um, but theypick you, um, and they train you
up for a few months to go ridea hundred miles on a mountain
bike in leadville, colorado.
The race is august 9th, sosummer will be wrapped up just
barely barely wrapped.
we're still working here.
I'm going to have to miss truckunpack.
(07:44):
Sorry, we'll miss you.
It's essentially just like a12-hour bike race and climbing
up mountains.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
It takes 12 hours to do 100 miles.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Like 12 hours is good .
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I'm hoping to make it in 12 hours, oh my heavens, how
do you even prepare forsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
uh, sitting on a bike for a long time.
There are some days where I'mout of bed for less than 12
hours.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Most of the time those are saturdays, but so oh
my gosh my goal.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So the crazy thing about this race is you climb all
these mountains and you can doit on your bike or you can walk
your bike, but there are timecuts throughout the way.
So it's like at the first 40miles if you're not there by a
certain time of day, they willpull you off the course because
you will get back after dark andyou shouldn't mountain bike on
these crazy mountains in thedark, and so so it's not just
(08:43):
down it down, it's up and down.
Up and down it's something.
So it's 105 miles.
Actually, it's more attractiveto call it a hundred miles, but
it's 105 miles and there's12,000 feet of climbing over the
hundred miles.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I just got sick to my stomach.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Uh, I listened to a podcast about it the other day,
a mile-by-mile recap of what therace looks like, and I yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So wait, when you're going up, you walk the bike.
I mean, if you can't ride it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So, like the goal is, you want to ride it up the
hills, okay, but like you'regoing to be dying, Shot at some
point, and so yeah be shot atsome point, and so yeah, they're
.
The craziest climb is from 9600feet to 12 500 feet in a little
over seven miles.
It's 3000 feet.
It's stupid.
So what I'm?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
doing is how many people participate in this 1800
people okay how many peoplefinish?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
1200 people finished, so that means 600 people got
pulled off the course.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Like if you finish in any amount of time.
I feel like that's an insaneaccomplishment.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And my goal.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
So this summer.
My goal is to.
If you see me at an event, I'llprobably have my bike with me.
If you see me in New Mexico,I'm a hundred percent bringing
my bike.
I'll wake up before adultleader meeting, ride to adult
meeting.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Are you breaking news right now?
Are we moving adult leadermeeting back to the mornings?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
yes, mix adult whoa breaking news I think you just
peeked out there, becausemichael's already looking did I?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
uh, it wouldn't be the first time.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
You went 0.4 decibels above the ceiling.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It'll be fine.
Fix it in post.
I will fix it in post.
We'll fix it in post.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So, yeah, it's more of a passion project for me.
I love what I get to do.
I love mix with my whole heart.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
But you love mountain biking more.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
It's something crazy that acouple of years ago, as everyone
does, I was dealing with apretty low mental health stage
of my life and found thatcycling and riding my mountain
bike would help me combatagainst that a little bit.
(11:06):
So it's always, it's been apart of my life pretty
consistently for the past coupleof years and being on this, I
mean it's crazy, it's to thenines, like there's a whole
YouTube series about it.
It's all sorts of craziness, um, just lucky, blessed to be a
part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Well, as your friend, I'm very proud of you for even
like walking down this road.
That's crazy.
This isn't like, oh, I'm gonnago run a marathon no, it's like
five marathons in mountains it'scrazy.
When I say I could never, Imean I would die.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
I would physically I would die.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'm from.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Florida.
The highest altitude that I'veever run at is 16 feet above sea
level yeah, I'm from oklahoma,I'm just kidding.
Uh, oh well, that's my life,that's gonna be an adventure.
I can't I literally cannot waitto have you back on this
podcast in the fall and be likehey, how was it?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
it's either I'm gonna I'm probably gonna cry, either
way, yeah, I'm just rememberinghow bad it was it'll be like
experience it.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
How was it?
It's either I'm going to, I'mprobably going to cry either way
, yeah, or just remembering howbad it was.
It'll be a good experience.
It's going to be a goodexperience.
It'll be really cool.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And if you want to follow along, you can follow
Caleb on Instagram at thederoynt, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
At thebirdsong.
That's incredible.
Also, I'm I'm not over the factthat we're moving adult leader
meetings back to the mornings.
I just got settled in to theevenings.
You know what I mean.
What was that about?
Why did we decide that?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
We decided it because pertinent information to last
you for the day is better to belike hey I don't have to sleep
on important information.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
it is better to be like hey, I don't have to sleep
on important information.
Here's everything you need forthe next 12 hours, instead of
here's half of what you need forthe next three hours.
And here's everything you needfor the next eight tomorrow.
After you've slept for twohours, um no, we really enjoyed
the evening ones, like we reallyreally did.
It just logistically works andmakes a ton of sense with the
schedule.
Um, to have that huddle in themornings you know what I love
(13:08):
about mix?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
what do you love about mix?
Always willing to try things.
Always it's like, hey, let'stry it, let's try it.
They did it and you know what?
It wasn't terrible, that's whatwe do.
So, uh, okay, it is officiallytime for the mailbag.
Um, you know, I know it's timefor the mailbag.
(13:29):
My lower back is getting sweaty.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ooh gross, and that means it's time.
I did not know that that washow you Cause my mailman Michael
came in.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Actually, for those of you listening, I will give
you a secret.
There is a certain person inour building, right down the
hall from where we're recordingthis, and it is the one and only
mailman tap he's here.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I did not know that he is here right now.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Now, is he going to be a move this summer?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
no, nope is he going to be a mix?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
nope also now, why could we not have tried to see,
tried to see?
If he could be Mailman Tim forthis episode.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We could have.
I thought about it, but he islike leaving.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
He is, I mean I'm sure, very tight schedule.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, he's a sought after man, but just know he's in
the building.
And boy, can you feel that?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I can feel him.
I was wondering what I wasfeeling.
That's that was it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So anyway, now for mailman pikel.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I'll never measure up um, okay, brad, I sent you
something on instagram lastnight, oh gosh, okay, um did I
see it.
You did see it because I youwere right in front of me right
after I sent it.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Oh, that's right look at your instagram.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yep, I'm just going to read this.
This was from the IGNcomInstagram account.
It was just a headline and whenI read this headline I was a
little confused before I waslike, why would I be confused
about this?
And this headline says Steve ina Minecraft movie was
originally going to be MattBerry, the actor.
(15:07):
So many of our questions in themailbag are from Matt Berry and
I had to take a second toseparate the Matt Berry in our
mailbag Not that Matt Berry andthe Matt Berry that could have
been in a Minecraft movie.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
We did ask for.
We asked for mailbag questionsone time and Mike Berry, it's
Matt Berry, Matt Berry.
Matt Berry left a comment withlike a hundred questions.
I was like sick.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So many questions we're set for life, we're never
going to have to ask again.
And we still have some thatwe've not asked.
I'm going to give Matt a breakon this one, oh.
So, I have a question that I Itoss around um every once in a
while that I enjoy um I hope youguys.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
This is a question from michael.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
This is a question from me.
Thanks for writing in.
Yeah, of course, I would liketo know what is your smallest
regret, something that you doregret, but it's like, whatever
you know it's really not a bigdeal my smallest regret is that,
(16:16):
like what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
like I got a diet dr pepper instead of a diet coke
and I regret like do you regretthat?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
no, but I mean like that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So you've obviously thought about this question.
What's your answer?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
so, uh, last fall I bought a photo printer on ebay,
yeah, and it works only 95percent, like it has actual
defects in the prints which areso unfortunate and make it so
that I can't like I wanted totry and start selling prints and
I can't do that.
But how much did you pay for it?
Like 150 bucks.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Like like a professional photo printer, is
like multiple hundred, likeseveral hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I have since bought a straight replacement for that
printer and it works perfectly.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So you know, yeah, but it's not like.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
It's not like I'm out tons of money or it's not like
you know, it ruined my life,it's just.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I started a garden this year and I regret not
growing carrots.
Oh, I should have done carrots.
That's a good.
I feel like that's my smallestregret.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, my smallest regret is I was going to make a
joke, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Signing up for the Leadville one Maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Maybe my smallest regret is not finishing my
Fairlife protein milk thismorning.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Cause it's 80 degrees outside and that has been
sitting in my truck.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
We have a question from Alex weirdo I love him all
the way from South Florida, allthe way.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Community Christian church.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Alex is asking what are ways that we stay up with
culture in regards to middleschool and high school students?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
huh I, so it's crazy that we talk about this.
We just had a gen alpha studyyesterday we did with ann wilson
from traders point came throughshe's on the board but gave us
that.
Um, I think the goal is like wegotta stop trying to stay up to
(18:29):
um date with them.
The language is different, thevideos are different, the humor
is different.
Um, you can know what they'redoing, so obviously they live
online.
So, as much as you feelcomfortable and healthy to like
live online to understand that alittle bit like you can build
algorithms around what a normalmiddle school boy or high school
(18:53):
girl would be able to look at.
But, dude, I just don't think weneed to run the rat race of
them of trying to keep up.
I just think you need to bewholly you, because that's all
they really want, everythingthat they see online.
There is a twinge of critiqueand caution of like is this real
(19:16):
, Is this legit?
Because we've grown accustomedto everything not being real, no
matter what, and the most realthat you can be with them in the
moment, whether you know thestuff they're talking about or
not.
If you're just wholly you andauthentically real, I think
that's really more importantthan trying to keep up with them
(19:37):
which is a generational shift,like in terms of like students
caring about and looking forauthenticity.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Like the younger somebody is right now, the more
likely they are to like careabout that?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
yeah, I agree with that.
But, like, what's thedifference between, let's say,
when we were coming into college, brad?
millennials yeah, when we weretheir age, like mumford and sons
got big because, like, oh mygosh, they just use acoustic
guitars.
That's authentic.
I think we need to redefine,like our idea of authenticity
(20:15):
and vulnerability is a littlebit different than what theirs
is, um, but also at the sametime, we were not as well
connected to the whole wideworld web and the whole earth at
any moment's notice.
We were just getting into thatI didn't get a Facebook until I
was in college, right, likepeople older than me couldn't
(20:35):
get a Facebook until they werein college because it was only
college.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
You had to have a edu email address to sign up.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It's one of those things that, like, I think we
also need to redefineauthenticity just a little bit
and what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
But that's a tangent.
I mean, there I'm.
I am not negating anything thatyou just said.
It was incredible.
I agree with you 100%.
There is still a sense in whichwe want to like, make t-shirts
that are a junior high studentwants to buy and we want to make
videos that a junior highstudent wants to engage in, but
(21:10):
it's not like I mean with theadvent of phones.
Someone was just on the podcastand said this it's like I can't
.
I think it was jordan francis.
Actually he was like I can'tmake things that are cooler than
what they can find you knowwhat I mean like I can't keep up
like I'll make something coolbecause they think it's cool and
(21:30):
by the time I actually make itand it's any good, that'll be
out of fashion.
And so, like the trends changeso fast now, Like I think the
job of our design team that haveto design shirts four months in
advance for our programs it'sjust getting like harder and
harder over time because itfeels like totally we've gone
(21:53):
from having fads when we weregrowing up to have like meme
culture which is like this isfunny for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And then if that, and then we never think about it
again.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, and if you are a three week runner, then, boy,
you had a good run.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
You had a good run a long time to be funny so yeah,
it is.
That wasn't an answer to thatquestion, but that's what I
thought about yeah, I just thinkit's a rat race.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, you're on the losing side, so we gotta.
We gotta adjust our mindset of,instead of trying to do that,
like be holistic, like, right,holistically, you even in your
design, like what is your design?
Like, okay, cool, it'sdifferent than everything else,
but like just like, yeah, thisis what we got and this is why
(22:43):
we do the t-shirt.
Right, because we do thet-shirt.
Does anyone know why we dot-shirts at CY?
I'll tell you why.
This is tangential, but it'sworth it.
We do t-shirts because that ispotentially a calling card for
any student that buys a t-shirtor a lanyard or a journal or a
hoodie or whatever, to have apiece of tactile clothing from
(23:08):
the week that could potentiallyhave changed their lives.
So for years from now and I'msure some of you who are
listening have some of these-have old t-shirts.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
yeah, yeah, like man.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I gave my life to Jesus at a COI in 2016, and I
still have the t-shirt fromKingdom Workers.
That was the theme.
That was a long answer it wasgood.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I I thought it was great.
It's a great conversation,honestly, like I.
There's a lot more that shouldand can be unpacked there, but,
um, we have a whole interview toget to maybe, uh, what is there
more?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
that's gonna be it for today.
That's gonna be it for today.
Thank you, mailman mailman mikeum.
Mike is a shortened version ofmailman pikel so it becomes
michael, that's how it works Iwas just wondering if we were
gonna like maybe workshop.
Is it like mailman mike, or isit like like parcel pike?
(24:15):
I don't know.
Like parcel pike, yeah you wantto start?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
we're going pike instead of pike.
I have written, I have, I havewritten pike on some things as
like a I have.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I've had other people write pike.
Pike is a fish you don't wantto be named after a fish.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
The weapon is named after the fish.
I will say, uh, but it is aweapon should we interview brand
?
Yeah, let's go.
Uh, mike, I'm super glad you'rehere.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about growth, because you
guys at sun valley communitychurch have just experienced
(24:58):
some insane growth.
I was actually just looking atthe numbers um, in 2021, that
was only four years ago, mike,right well, you know, uh, you
guys brought 212 people to move.
okay, okay, bring in a cool 1156.
(25:19):
We're gonna do easy math andcall that 300 growth over the
course of four years.
Uh, in 2022, you brought 262people to mix and bring about
700 this summer.
I'm not going to try to do themath there, but you guys have
experienced a ton of growth andI know that you're intentional
about wanting to grow and I wantto talk about that a little bit
(25:43):
.
But before we talk about youknow how you guys do that and
and and what you feel like hashelped you along in that journey
I want to know some people.
I feel like some people thinkthat trying to grow numerically
is like icky you know what Imean.
Like there are people that arelike and I understand it.
(26:06):
I understand how theconversation about numbers is
really nuanced and different andI'm just curious why, like,
pursuing numerical growth issomething that you are
passionate about, and I knowthat it's rooted in like
biblical truth and prayer foryou, and just help me navigate
(26:28):
that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Totally for you and I just just help me navigate that
a little bit.
Totally.
Uh, if there's a few places Iwant full, uh, it's heaven and
church, like I don't know.
Uh, yeah, I don't I don't lovewaiting in line at amusement
parks when they're full.
Like I don't, I don't love that.
I don't love a full restaurantwhere I have to wait, um, but
yeah, but yeah, those otherplaces camp, church, heaven,
(26:53):
like let's fill it up, dude.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's a good point, that is that is that's, that's
the goal, um.
So, yeah, I, I, I.
I want to talk about how you dothat, though, because you guys
have obviously experiencedtremendous growth, um, over the
course of the past.
I mean, I only have numbersgoing back for three years for
(27:17):
mix, four years for move,whatever, um, but I'm curious
how you pursue that, how youengage in that, what it looks
like for you to say, hey, let'sgo out there and and and grow
yeah, uh, for me it's nothingcrazy flashy.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Uh, in fact, I I almost, when I see something hit
really quickly, I have a lot ofquestions.
Um, so there was a lot ofgroundwork up to those, those
growth years, um, but, man, justto take it back to what I feel
are like really basic thingswould be healthy growth, so
(27:58):
healthy ways to grow,consistency, like doing the
right thing just over and overand over and over again.
Just a little context we're amulti-site church and so we have
six different campuses, sostaff retention is like where I
started.
I was like let's get the rightpeople in the right places and
(28:20):
keep them there for a reallylong time.
Turnover is always going to, inmy opinion, probably stunt
growth and lose trust withfamilies and all those things
that happen over years and yearsand years.
And then, uh, culture has to berebuilt and things like that.
So, man, right, people, uh,healthy culture and consistency
(28:42):
would be just the foundation ofhow our growth has happened.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
What is unhealthy growth?
Speaker 4 (28:49):
look like our growth has happened.
What is unhealthy growth?
Look like, yeah, and not toknock, like, let's start with
events, but not to knock events.
We do events, but I think thereare probably a lot of event
driven ministries out there.
Let's equate it to like a fire,right, like everyone needs a
spark to get started, whichcould be those events, like,
(29:10):
let's say, sparks are events, um, and then let's talk about
programming.
There's a lot of program heavy,uh ministries out there.
Those would be like the logs onthe fire.
These are like the staples thatwe do.
These are the things we do, ourprogram, um, but for me, I feel
like where it gets really goodand healthy and uh, lasting is
(29:34):
that that ember in the fire.
Like once it's been going for alittle bit, you get those
embers, um, and that, to me,would be relationships.
So we, we are relationshipdriven ministry.
Uh, we have a program.
We do events every now and then, but our bread and butter is
connection, right, so, helpingstudents connect with other
(29:57):
students and with caring adults,so they're volunteers and
allowing that to be the the.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
The thing that keeps the fire going, that continues
to fuel what we do, isrelationships well, I know I
want to talk about the, becausethe two things that you've said
tie together obviously therelational aspect and the staff
retention aspect.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I know that, caleb, the staff retention piece
and the staff care piece issomething that you care a lot
about, um, so I know that youjust kind of had some thoughts
about that, or I don't know yeah, uh, I mean, mike, we've worked
together, for when you workedhere, uh, we worked together for
(30:46):
years and I think one of thethings from afar that I look up
to you in a lot of ways is justthe intentionality you go about
hiring the right person and theright people for your team.
So could you explain just alittle bit?
Like you had mentioned, we needto put the right people in the
right places.
Was that a shift for you?
(31:07):
Was that something that you'vealways kind of thought?
How has it paid off?
What are some ways?
Like honestly, I think we needto hear the other side of it too
, of like, sometimes the rightpeople are not in the right spot
and they may be great people,but they're not in the right
spot, so we need to shift themsomewhere else.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That's kind of an umbrella of a question, but many
, many conversations can comeout of that, but many many
conversations can come out ofthat, yeah, so I'll go back to
the culture piece when we'relooking to hire someone.
(31:44):
That's a huge part of how Ithink that at least at Sun
Valley, we've been able to findthe right people and have the
growth that we've had is becauseour culture is actually really,
really strong.
My personal experience a lot ofchurches have their statements
and their vision statements andthis is who we are and it looks
really good on paper, but itdoesn't always play out in
reality.
(32:04):
Something I feel is unique towhere we're at is we have a
strong culture on paper thatmatches reality.
That's cool, yeah, that's greatwhat we do and so, yeah,
through interview processes orthrough growing up internal
leaders that become pastorsinside of our church, that
(32:27):
culture, that DNA, is a really,really important thing that we
look for and that we'd see ifsomeone's teachable, coachable
and can come on board with theculture.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, that idea of having super strong value
statements and missions, but itnot being the practical, so this
is a sidebar, but I'm in schoolright now.
Graduate in a month, thank theLord.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Hold for applause.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But that's like one of the things right, Like
organizations often Getting yourhigh school diploma.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, yeah, finally.
Good for you, man, that's more.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Jaguar.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Congratulations 25.
Is that a thing?
I was homeschooled.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
So 25.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Let's go.
Is that a thing?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I was homeschooled A high school diploma, did you say
are you eating your diploma?
I said are you?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
getting your diploma.
Okay, I was like phew, Imisheard.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
No, people don't eat their diplomas.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
All right, but it sounds like a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
But if someone did, it would be Throw the hat yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
No, all that to say, like, oftentimes, people we come
up with that's just even pareit down to like sun valley youth
group or sun valley students.
We come up with these huge,grandiose vision statements of
we want to change the world andwe want to equip the next
leaders of whatever, and whilethose are cool and flowery, like
what are we practically doingto live that out?
And so it's super encouragingto hear that, like your vision
and mission match with, like,the actions of the staff.
(33:57):
That's just not always the mostcommon.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well and I'm thinking like not everybody has a youth
ministry staff right, likethere's a youth pastor out there
listening to this who can'thire anybody yeah, and your team
is your volunteers.
And I know Like there's there'sa youth pastor out there
listening to this who can't hireanybody yeah, and your team is
your volunteers.
And I know I was going to saythey're hiring volunteers, but
yeah but like how we do thatmatters, and I think, like
standing on a stage and sayingis there any person over the age
(34:24):
of 18 with a pulse who wants tohang out with high school
students?
Is is probably not like the wayto create some of the longevity
and the strength of culturethat you're talking about.
You know what I mean, Causethere it sounds to me like you
would say, Mike, there are a lotof great youth pastors out
there that sun Valley is nottheir place and it's not a value
(34:45):
statement about them as a youthpastor, but this is just not
the right spot for them.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yeah, a hundred percent for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, how.
So yeah, to go back, how havethose conversations went?
And edifying ways, because thething about some values there's
not just like a lot of turnover,like people aren't just like
quitting or getting fired, um,but there are people that are
not always in the right spot.
(35:12):
So you don't have to give likea literal example, but like how
do you approach something likethat of like you know what this
person is, great, they would bereally great over here, better
than what they are in thisparticular role.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Yeah, so one of our leadership distinctives, like a
part of our DNA, is we lovefirst, lead second, but always
do both.
So love first, lead second,always do both employees or our
(35:52):
people really well.
Um, I feel like that that givesme the platform to then speak
into how to lead them.
Yeah, uh, and, and if I'm doingboth, I feel like that
conversation is actually reallynatural and not awkward and not
sure, not intimidating or likewhat do you mean?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
um, no, it's based on yeah, it's based off building
them up.
At that point it's like, hey, Iknow you and I love you and
here are things that you'rereally good at, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, what's been the payoff?
Like you get to Sun Valley inwhat year?
2019.
2019, coming from CIY?
Yeah, you begin this process oflike.
Hey, I'm really, really goingto invest a lot in this team and
(36:35):
in this culture and make itstrong, and I want to try to
reduce turnover so that we canbuild strong relationships and
continue to see this ministrygrow.
What, like, how?
What does your staff look likenow in terms of how you feel
like you've grayed yourselfalmost is what I'm saying.
(36:57):
You know I do.
What's the fruit that you'veseen come out of?
That, I guess, is what the realquestion I'm asking is.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, so it was, you know, hard at first because some
things did need to change andsome people did need to either
exit the team or shift toanother role.
In terms of the newer directionwe were going with things, but
(37:28):
that brought about some healthychange and some good momentum,
um, and then I would say thatstaff is is one part of it.
Um, the flip side of the coinis we also, you know, started to
mess with philosophy like hey,what, what are we doing?
(37:49):
Why are we doing what we'redoing?
How are we going to executethat?
Um, so some of that shifted andchanged as well.
Uh, so people and mind mindsetshifts um, occurred in those
first like 18 months or so.
Uh, and the longevity that thatthat has afforded us has played
(38:13):
out really well.
But it was a battle to start.
One of my first real thingsthat I needed to go to bat for
was actually a salary increase.
I had to go to our HRdepartment and be like, hey,
here's the vision.
I need people here long term.
I need people that, if theyhave a family, hey, here's the
vision.
I need people here long-term.
I need people that, if theyhave a family, they can keep
(38:34):
doing this job.
I need you know, like all ofthat was a conversation and so,
um, that upped and and we have agreat uh HR department and they
realized what, what washappening and where we're going
and what we needed to accomplish.
Um, so, like that was one ofthe foundational things of like
just being able to make thisviable for a long time, if that
(38:57):
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, it totally does , and I think it's really cool
that I I feel like a lot ofpeople would expect a podcast
like this to start.
Hey, how do you intentionallygrow and somebody to start
rattling off programming changesthat they made?
You know what I mean.
Well, we started doing wouldexpect a podcast like this to
start.
Hey, how do you intentionallygrow and somebody to start
rattling off programming changesthat they made?
You know what I mean.
Well, we started doing this andwe stopped doing this.
And we, you know, and I, youknow, I'm sure there's a place
(39:19):
for that.
I'm sure you know likeprogramming is important.
I'm.
The philosophy, uh, the, the,the longevity, the people,
making sure they're in the rightspot, is actually something
(39:39):
that matters more, probably, toto creating and fostering growth
than any individual thing thatyou might do or not.
Do you know, um?
Did you like was, was, wasprogramming those first 18
months when you were talkingabout man?
We really need to instill theculture.
We need to, um, come up withwhat our philosophy is going to
(40:00):
be.
We need to get the right peoplein the right seats on the bus.
Tough 18 months.
Um was pro.
What role did programming playin all of that.
Was that on your mind at all?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
It was, yeah, and we can talk through some of that
too if you'd like, but we hadlike.
So 2020 happened and the worldshut down for a second, which
was actually a really silverlining moment for us, because we
could hit, like a really hardreset when we, when we came back
(40:31):
together and since we is also,I'm in arizona, so we were only
shut down for like a second amonth and a half because we're
the wild west, right, uh.
But um, yeah, when we came backto it it was just like and now
we're gonna do this and no onereally questioned, questioned
the change.
(40:51):
So I admit it probably wouldhave taken longer, like a longer
runway, to make some of thosechanges without that opportunity
.
But, that being said, it was areally good, just fresh start
for us on the programming sideof things.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So all we need to do is incite a global pandemic.
If nope, we went, no or okayjust manufacture.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Just manufacture it like things aren't going really
well where you're at.
I mean, there is, there isreally clear data that says it's
okay to like stop something andthen start something.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah you know, I mean momentum.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Momentum happens when you can celebrate and end
something, and when you cancelebrate and start something
right.
So they're like you couldartificially create, like a stop
and a start wherever you're atand there are like times of the
year when that happens,naturally.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Anyway, you know like coming back after the summer or
the beginning of the calendaryear.
Yeah, that's interesting.
So just like taking a deepbreath as a ministry.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
you know that's interesting, that's cool, yeah,
especially because I meanobviously we hear that and we're
like, yeah, totally, totallyget it.
But I'm already thinking aboutlike the next two months of
programming that I have to do.
So it's like I could never.
I could never stop this, Icould never like pause for a
moment.
But no, that's good, that'sreally good.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Well, I feel like so much programming is um comes
from a template.
Now, anyway, you know like I'mdeciding am I a Sunday youth
ministry person or am I aWednesday youth ministry person?
And you know like everythingfeels like it's very much in
this box and I have to.
You know, choose like, pick myoptions out of there.
(42:43):
Was there any ways that youguys just kind of like got
really creative and were likewe're going to throw all of this
out and just do what we feellike is going to work for sun
valley?
Speaker 4 (42:52):
yes, and it's so interesting.
You say like I'm either this orthis, we're actually all of it,
uh.
So like we have weekendservices for uh for our students
and we provide midweek smallgroups for our students and we
(43:15):
can kind of talk like programhere in more in depth in a
second.
But what I want to say on thiskind of particular thing is,
since we're relationally focused, we're going to cast a net
wherever we can to connect withstudents right.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Create as many assessments as you can.
How do you do that withoutmaking your staff pull their
hair out and quit?
You know what I mean?
You pay them more.
What?
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (43:39):
you pay them more.
You pay them more.
No, you create, like we createa really healthy flow for them.
So another one of our like DNAthings is uh, like effort, like
we work hard, we give our best,but we put our family first is
(43:59):
kind of like our, our phrase forthat distinctive Um.
And so, yeah, we expect a lotfrom our, our pastors, our
employees.
We expect a lot from ourvolunteers too, um, but we do it
in a really healthy way thatcan last.
So the weekend comes everyweekend, right, but strategic
moments where, whether it'sEaster or Christmas, like our
(44:22):
students are joining the adultservices and our pastoral staff
is helping in a different waywith the church overall.
But then our midweek it justfollows the school year, so we
take breaks.
When the school takes breaks,like every family is going to
enjoy that.
All of our volunteers love thetime off or the little break and
(44:42):
it's natural, again, it's inthat calendar year.
So summer's off, spring break,fall break we have fall break
here in Arizona.
Summer's off, spring break,fall break we have fall break
here in arizona.
Um, and then nice, uh like,like after thanksgiving, through
the new year, we take those,those time periods off yeah, no,
that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
And as you were saying it, I was thinking about
the like relational youthministry thing.
It's like if that's going to beyour thing, if that's your core
value, then you have to createspaces where that can happen.
So even that, you know, I Ifeel like there's a way to do a
lot in a way that is not reallymissional, just to do a lot, you
(45:25):
know what I mean.
Like I feel like I should haveprogramming in the middle of the
week and should haveprogramming on the weekends, and
you know, my senior pastortells me that I have to do
Sunday school and so we're justgoing to kind of do all this
stuff as like a, a piecemealkind of thing.
But when it's intentional andyou know, like, okay, the goal
(45:46):
of every single thing that we dois going to be relational
connection, then it becomes kindof a different thing, which I
think is really cool.
I also love the idea of justsaying outright like we expect a
lot from our volunteers,because I feel like in the same,
like same scenario where youthpastor stands on stage on a
(46:09):
Sunday and says, hey, anyonewho's an adult with a pulse we
need you probably also saysit'll be easy, it's fun, it's
just hanging out with kids, youknow, and you'll have a great
time.
So I feel like there's somelike honesty that you have built
into your culture.
That is probably really helpfultoo.
(46:31):
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, and here's another thing when it comes to
volunteers, that kind of sparkedwhen you said that I have this
philosophy, this mentality thatevery volunteer at our church is
a student volunteer.
Like, okay, you're in kidsministry but a student is
(47:01):
volunteering next to you in thatkids classroom.
You're a student volunteer,right.
You're in parking lot ministry,you're a greeter, but there's a
student that's serving in thatarea.
You are walking along thatstudent.
So like, you are a studentvolunteer.
And so we've been reallyintentional about trying to
partner with other ministriesinside the church to make sure
(47:25):
that they understand thatthey're also a significant adult
in the life of that student,relationally right, yeah, we
have a text message that goesout to a few thousand people
that pray for our students.
They're a part of our studentministry.
Do I ever see them?
Most of them know, yeah, butthey're grandmas and grandpas
(47:47):
and aunts, andts and uncles orlike they're.
They are the, the businessmanthat travels a ton but can get
that text message and take timeand pray for our students, and
so, um, yeah, that's been a hugemindset shift to try to try to
equip the saints in our churchand say like, no, no, no, no, no
, no.
This generation needs and wantsand values what you have to
(48:10):
offer.
However, you offer it.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Well, yeah, and I definitely want to lean into
this a little bit, because SunValley takes kind of a holistic
approach to student ministry asI understand it, that you're
coming in and saying, hey, let'spartner together children's
ministry volunteers becauseyou're going to be helping us
(48:33):
reach our goals of havingstudents find these relational
connections.
So what is the buy-in of yourupper levels of leadership in
student ministry?
Kind of look like at Sun Valley, Because it sounds like it's
very strong.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Yeah, it is.
So I'm going to say somethingthat's going to sound like a dig
about leadership, but it's not,and then I'm going to
compliment it afterwards.
So when I first came studentminist, it wasn't.
Student ministries wasn'treally in a healthy spot and our
(49:13):
leadership didn't really talkabout it from stage a ton.
They didn't highlight it a ton.
Um, they weren't making big uhasks for offering for camp or
things like that, which we cantalk about too if you want to.
But, um, they literally like wesat down together and they said
(49:34):
, hey, we're not going to fuelthis until you're ready,
interesting.
And so it was kind of on me tobe like when, when are we going
to be healthy enough to where itmakes sense that our leadership
really backs this?
Because they're not going tomake, they're not going to say
like, go serve in studentministries, and then it'd be a
(49:55):
horrible experience, Right Causethey just lost, they just lost
trust with with the congregation, and so, um, yeah it.
It took a couple years for us tothen be like and hey, we're
ready now.
You know what I mean.
And then it was like let's pourgas on this fire, let's support
(50:15):
it.
We take an offering at Easterand Christmas.
That always kind of goesoutside our walls or to
something beyond kind of justour general offering Right, to
something beyond, um, kind ofjust our general offering, right
.
So, uh, we just said, hey, whatif our Christmas offering went
(50:36):
to scholarship summer camp foranybody who really wants to go
in our community?
It would be really easy.
Ask for our people to invitepeople when it's not you know
umpteen hundred or a thousanddollars to go to this camp.
Um, you know what if it wassuper attainable?
And year one of that, uh, our,our people give a million
dollars, uh, just to subsidizethe cost of camp across from our
(50:59):
kids day camp to our preteencamp, to our junior high and
high school camps.
Um, yeah, it just brought thecost from like man, it's really
expensive, especially if youhave multiple kids.
Uh, down to like, oh, that's areally easy, yes, attainable
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That's incredible because I'm trying to imagine
all of the different ways thatconversation can go.
Like at some point I'm guessingit was you somebody sat down
with somebody at an executiveleadership level senior pastor,
executive pastor or whatever andsaid hey, I know this offering
(51:36):
usually goes to fill in theblank.
Let's give it to me so that Ican use it to scholarship
students instead, studentsinstead.
Like yeah, I feel like nine,nine times out of ten, that
conversation is gonna fall flat.
But the fact that your, yourleadership, said, no, we totally
(51:57):
see the value in this and buyinto it, um, I think it's just
like a really, really cool thing.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
That's incredible and I also see, like right, you
mentioned, from your point ofview, the groundwork that you
intentionally laid to be able togrow well, but also the, the
reins being held back just a bitby leadership, to know like,
hey, we want to do this, likethat partnership was always on
their heart and on their mind.
(52:25):
We don't want to do it whenyou're not ready.
So there's wisdom, like fromboth ends coming up and meeting
in this middle.
That has created these lastfour years to be just like going
gangbusters right, like thingsare popping off and it's super
fun and it's cool to be around.
Like I'm not I don't go to SunValley, that would be a crazy
(52:46):
Sunday commute for me, but Imean it's honestly like I look
forward to it every year and youand your whole staff are very
near and dear to my hearts andyou guys have welcomed me in
because we do middle school camptogether every summer in June
in New Mexico and it'sinfectious to be a part of and
(53:09):
the amount of like just campuspastors I've met that I'm now
friends with, it's like you cansee.
It's very much top down, bottomup, like everyone's on the same
page, and it's really, reallycool to see.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
It does sound like an awesome church.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Never been, but um it is in phoenix yeah right, I
mean, I'm that's, it's I'm gamefor phoenix um, I'm super not
I'm.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I hear it's a great coffee city, true I don't know,
I don't mike doesn't drinkcoffee.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
You don't drink coffee, no ask, ask mike britton
what his coffee order what'syour coffee order at Starbucks?
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Hot chocolate, no whipped cream, but a little
cooler temperature, so I candrink it right away.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Which is commonly referred to.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
The Michaels on this podcast are in full agreement
right now it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
I think Starbucks hot chocolate is better than most
coffee shops.
Hot chocolate there you go.
I can honestly sit here and sayI've never had hot chocolate is
better than most coffee shops.
Hot chocolate there you go.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
I can honestly sit here and say I've never had a
coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
Anyway, dang it, it's just, it's one of those things
that I'm like.
If they're hot chocolates, good, maybe other things are good.
Now, starbucks is maybe anexception there, but I've been
to a lot of coffee shops thathave bad hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, that's because they're coffee shops, michael,
not ice cream parlors.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Anyway, you said something really interesting.
No, we've got to get back ontrack.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
We're almost out.
You remember that one time,brandon, did you go to Six Flags
with us when I came down toDallas for that belief.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
And we all went and rode roller coasters and Michael
paid the entrance fee plus anextra fee just so he could go to
the haunted houses.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Hey, I had a great time.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
No roller coasters, just haunted houses.
No coffee, just hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Wild roller coasters, just haunted houses.
No coffee, just hot chocolate.
Yep, wild, um, all right.
So I what we were talking aboutbefore someone derailed the
conversation, I don't evenremember who, uh, probably me,
it was me.
Um was caleb was talking abouthow he really respects that.
Your leadership was like yeah,we want to pour into this.
Let us know when you're ready.
Um, when, what made you ready?
(55:32):
You know what I mean.
When did you pull the triggeron that and what had changed at
that point?
Where was the ministry?
I don't know what question I'meven really asking, like what?
switch what switch flipped thatyou were like, we're ready,
let's go.
Speaker 4 (55:46):
Like what switch?
What switch flipped that youwere like we're ready, let's go.
Yep, no, that is a, that is aan amazing question because
there's so many nuances to it,cause you're like I don't even
know what to ask, and I think alot of people don't know what to
even look for or ask in thatscenario, like when would we be
healthy and that's that's how Itake the question when would we
(56:09):
be healthy enough to get fuelfor this fire?
Right, for me there was a fewdifferent things that I needed.
I needed perception to changewas kind of one of the first
things.
We came again from pre-COVID.
Our program then was studentministries once a week on Sunday
evenings, and that was apartfrom our adult services, and it
(56:35):
wasn't going really well Cause Ithink they were trying to do
two things in one thing they'retrying to do the big program,
large group production and smallgroup conversations.
And from when I came in andkind of looked at that, I was
like there's a lot going on here.
One, I think students aren't asimpressed with the program as
(57:01):
we think they are.
And then, two, I would not callthem small groups, what were
happening, I would call themdiscussion groups because they
were not consistent students orconsistent leaders from week to
week and so they weren'tinvesting relationally into them
even outside of that one twohours window Right and then two
from a church's overallstandpoint, since they weren't
(57:25):
ever seeing students getinvolved, because what had
happened when they moved awayfrom attending on the services
that coincide with adultservices is our students that
served also tanked.
So now there's no realincentive for a student to go to
(57:47):
church when the adults arethere.
They're just going in there attheir own moment during the week
, which, from a churchperspective, is like where are
all the youth?
It doesn't feel good actually,from a collective church body.
It feels like something ismissing because it was missing,
(58:08):
and so I feel like we needed tochange that narrative, we needed
to change that perspective, andso we went back to junior, high
, high school, preteen, allthose people meeting at the same
times as the adults weremeeting, and so they were on
camps, and then we actually setup like, like large group.
We did we do three things right, we do small groups, large
(58:32):
group and then students serving.
Those were like our three bigpriorities that we wanted to
like push, but we they're inpriority order.
So students in a small groupwas number one, students serving
was number two, and thenstudents coming to a large group
like format program.
That was like our thirdpriority, and so we invested
(58:55):
more into small groups andstudents serving than we did in
our large group times.
But that was one of thoseindicators that helped shift and
change was church perspective.
Then volunteer buy-in, likeleaders coming on board, having
that everyone wants to join awinning team.
(59:17):
It didn't seem like we werewinning in the moment.
Even though great things werehappening, god was still working
in individuals' lives.
Not to diminish any of thatthat was happening, but from an
outsider's perspective it didn'tseem like we were winning and
so we needed to change that.
We needed to have volunteersexcited about doing what they're
(59:38):
doing and become thoseevangelists to other people to
like, hey, come join the team.
And so we shifted words buildworlds right.
So we shifted a lot ofvernacular.
We intentionally set up thisvocabulary that we said on
repeat over and over and overand over and over and over.
So people were like, oh, that'swhat's happening, oh, okay, and
(01:00:00):
it's something that they wantedto join.
And then, along with gettingthe right people in places, in
leadership spots.
When those kind of three thingsall like began to sync together
, that's when I felt like wewere ready for an influx of
support.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Sure, did I interrupt you earlier?
Were you going to jump in withsomething?
If not it's okay, I just feltlike I interrupted you.
Nope, okay, great, um.
So that's all really incrediblestuff and I think, um, like
there's a reverse mentality ofthat.
(01:00:37):
That's like let's get a bunchof kids in the door to create
some energy, and then we'll beable to kind of like create some
of the experiences that we want.
Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
So I love that perspective of and I would
honestly say that's kind of likewhen I just look at youth
ministry big umbrella, this is abig umbrella statement, so
don't take it the wrong way.
I would say, like those flashesin the pan actually are more
detrimental than helpful in thelong run.
Why actually are moredetrimental than helpful in the
long run?
Why?
(01:01:08):
Because it creates this likefalse sense of like we did
something really big and greatand it's like man, if you had
people show up for one thing andthen like you don't see them
the rest of the year or youdon't invest in them, no one's
praying for them, no one's likeI don't know if that was really
successful.
Like you got to gauge your winsand so you could throw a really
(01:01:35):
great event and like have thatone spark, but you, you're
missing all those embers right.
Like you're missing, um, thatlasting warmth that draws more
people in.
I would say like that type ofenvironment, that type of warmth
, draws more people than a, thana spark, than like a we're
getting something started orthrowing a big party yeah, or
like lighter fluid.
Like you throw a lighter fluidon a fire, it goes out real,
(01:01:57):
real fast yeah, and to ourleadership's credit, they could
have, you know, poured gas onthat fire at the very beginning
and it could have spiked, but wewouldn't have been ready, right
like we wouldn't havemaintained that momentum yeah,
that's super interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
So, shoot, I had something along the lines of
that.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Well, while you think of it, I can okay, nope, I was
just gonna say I can't get pastthe fact that we're using a fire
analogy to talk about mike'schurch in pho, arizona.
It's like how often?
Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
how often do you have fires, mike?
96 degrees.
It's fire outside all summer.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
No, no, no, no, no.
But I see that and it'sinteresting.
So I wonder if there's a playboy.
I am by no means somebody whocan speak to like the psyche of
the United States of America,nor would I want to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Big job.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
But right, like anyone can get famous for a
minute, Anyone can make it.
Mr Beast has thrown out $10million to somebody who is
picking a case Like this idea isso prevalent in our culture
that it's almost counterculturalthat you took the time to build
the support and the base thatcould withstand a windfall of
(01:03:16):
growth, because oftentimes it'sthe flip side, and I'm I would
just be interested that's,that's worth somebody like who's
listening to this to study thatand write a book on it.
Because, like, legitimately,like I think there's something
there of we had a really greatcouple summers or we have these
three events during the yearthat, like we already know,
(01:03:37):
students from other churches aregoing to come through.
So my question to you is of,let's say, let's just pick your
middle school numbers of all thestudents that are coming to
middle school camp this year youmay know it, you may not know
it what percentage are actuallyplugged in throughout the year?
Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Yeah, I can make up a number and it might sound
really good.
But instead of numbers but I'lltalk instead of like numbers
I'll kind of talk like, um, howwe've seen, instead of like the
wave that that crashes duringsummer, yeah, after every summer
, we've seen like the waterlevel rise, if that.
(01:04:21):
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, and so Iknow brand new people are coming
to.
You know camps and things likethat.
Um, I, I know that there are,since it's at a lower cost.
There are some other kids thatcome from other churches.
Um, and we're not, we're notgoing to like, say no to that
that's not our intent or ourdesire, um, but also, uh, if I'm
(01:04:46):
just looking at the kingdom,like we're all on the same team
doesn't matter.
Yeah, we provide a really greatexperience for them to
encounter god, like I don't knowif there's anything wrong with
that, yeah, uh.
And then I will say, like, weuse summer camp as the beginning
of our year, so it likelaunches all of that relational
equity into small groups, um,where some people might use it
(01:05:09):
as, like a culmination.
We, we always see it as abeginning.
Um, but that big wave thatcrashes for summer every every
year after the water level risesum after those moments, and so
that's where I kind of gaugesuccess or how we, how well
we've done, is like, okay, wehave this big uh thing happened,
(01:05:30):
but did it stick Like um?
Is that is that kind of helpinganswer that?
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
That does.
Yeah, I mean cause that's.
That's just the intentionalityand the base that you guys have
built to be able to have that.
Like that, water level isrising.
All right, we're going to letyou go here that, like that
water level is rising.
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
All right, we're going to let you go here in a
second, mike, but I want to.
Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
He's super frozen Huh .
Mike is super frozen, uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
He's back.
Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
He's back baby.
Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
I lost about four seconds.
Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Yeah, it was a good four set.
You missed a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
I gave the secret to growth?
Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
um, we're gonna let you go here in a sec.
Uh, you've been great, givingus a lot of good stuff to chew
on.
I think my biggest takeaway hasto do with, like, the
collaboration that you have, um,or maybe that you I'm sure you
maintain that collaboration, butthe collaboration, really
honestly, that you had when youstarted um with leadership, for
(01:06:32):
them to be able to say you know,um, we want to see a student
ministry grow.
We want to see it grow, um, ina healthy way.
So let's work together andlet's so, um, I do wonder how
many student pastors out thereare almost have like the
opposite problem where they achurch hires student pastor, um,
(01:06:58):
let's call him Dale, his nameis Dale and they've hired Dale
and they expect for his hiringto bring a lot of great like
momentum to the ministry andhe's a really exciting guy and
they're excited, um, and hemight have every intention of
taking your philosophy, but then, six months in, he's getting
(01:07:20):
called into his senior pastor'soffice Like hey, man, it feels
like we're not really seeing.
You know a lot, of a lot ofchange here I wonder how you
would like encourage that typeof person, you know yeah, that's
(01:07:41):
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
Uh, I think a lot of this hinges on leadership's
perspective, right?
Like my personal opinion is,you don't even get your feet
under you until year two.
And so, man, if you're sittingthere six months into somewhere
and things aren't as expected, Itry to have really open, honest
conversations on expectationsand and and then try to like
(01:08:10):
parse that out into attainable,attainable chunks.
Like, hey, in four months canwe set this goal?
In another four months Can weset this goal with that Show you
that we're on the right track.
(01:08:33):
And no, no, no knock againstleadership, but sometimes
they're.
They only look at the, the oneor two things that come across
their their desk.
Some, some of them, aren'tsuper involved.
So I would invite themstrategically to a few things so
that they're seeing the goodthat's happening in the midst of
growth, if that makes sense.
So instead of you know, oh, wehave a one-on-one quarterly or
(01:08:55):
whatever that might be, I wouldup the frequency of that type of
conversation if and whenpossible, but then include them
in or invite them in on aWednesday night or whatever.
But have them, don't just comeand like see it.
Have them come and hear it.
And what I mean by hear it isto hear the conversation or the
(01:09:19):
wins that your volunteers aresharing afterwards.
Hopefully, you're celebratingthe things God's doing, um, and
you're vocalizing that with yourteam and your volunteers.
Make sure your leadership hearsthose wins, not necessarily
just from your mouth, but fromyour volunteers mouth.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
That's really good.
Uh, it's good stuff.
It's a good note to end on.
I it michael mike.
Appreciate you, man.
It's really great having youhonestly um I hope you enjoy a
nice lukewarm hot chocolate forthe job well done today done.
Thanks for being here, bro yeah, absolutely okay, well, that
(01:10:06):
was a fun conversation.
Thanks for hanging out.
I think mike uh, he's had a lotof things that I just don't
know that I've ever heard saidthat in like a cons, he says
things, he chooses his wordscarefully, he says things in a
really concise way.
That's like piercing and um yeahjust thinking about the value
of relational youth ministry, Ithink, is something that's going
(01:10:27):
to stick with me for a minute.
I love that.
Mikey B, mikey B, alright,caleb, our time together is
drawing to a close.
Will you wrap this up byreading our blessing, please?
Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
absolutely may God show you grace and bless you.
May he make his face shine onyou.
May you experience the love ofChrist, through whom God gives
you fullness of life.
May you be strengthened by hispower.
May Christ himself make hishome in your heart, that you
(01:11:02):
would be full of his love andgrace and that those you serve
would see Jesus in you.
Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester,
lauren Bryan and myself.
Thank you to Mike Branton forbeing with us today and for
sharing a lot of really greatstuff.
Thanks to Caleb as well, ourdirector of Mix, for hanging out
before what's going to be anawesome summer.
We're going to be back in acouple weeks.
We are winding down toward theend of our season.
I think we only have twoepisodes left, but we will be
(01:11:31):
back in a couple of weeks totalk to somebody about something
, and in the meantime, you cansubscribe to this show on
YouTube or wherever you listento podcasts.
You can also reach us by emailat podcast at cicom.
You can also reach us on theCYY Community Facebook group,
and that's all the ways you canreach us.
(01:11:51):
We'll see you next time.
Thank you.
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