December 11, 2025 • 45 mins
What does safe and responsible AI adoption look like in a public sector environment that handles sensitive data and must protect trust at every step?
In this episode, we talk with Kerry Jordan, Chief of Staff for the City of Boston. He explains how his team approaches AI with clear guardrails, approved tools, and training that supports security and transparency. He gives a real example of financial data uploaded to an unapproved model and shows why controlled environments and policy alignment matter.
We cover how to evaluate AI by use case, select the right ecosystem such as Microsoft Copilot or Google Gemini, and set up monitoring and auditing. Kerry also outlines the factors that shape public sector decisions, including consent requirements and accountability to citizens.
The conversation then shifts to adoption. Teams gain confidence when they see AI remove repetitive tasks and reduce errors. We walk through a simple approach: survey your workforce, communicate the purpose, start with high-impact pilots, and measure results in time saved and quality gains. We also discuss governance to reduce bias and the value of human review as these tools evolve.
If you need clarity on AI tool selection, data protection, or how to support your teams without enabling shadow IT, this episode provides a clear playbook you can apply in your organization.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
What's really driving the future of IT?
How are leaders stay secure,efficient, and ahead of change?
Welcome to the Beyond theFirewall Podcast.
Powered by HubTech, where we gopast the headlines to talk with
technology leaders, industryexperts, and IT practitioners
shaping how we work, live, andlead.
Let's get into today's episodeHello everyone.
SPEAKER_03 (00:28):
I'm Adam Schaefer, host of the new HubTech
Conversations on ArtificialIntelligence podcast.
AI is like a two-sided coin.
On the one side, it couldaccelerate business operations,
improve decision making, andunlock new opportunities.
On the other, it raises seriousquestions around data
protection, cybersecurity, andhow employees can embrace AI
(00:50):
tools without fear or misuse.
To help unpack these topics, I'mjoined today by two incredible
guests to help us explore bothsides of the coin.
Today we have Chris Daggett,HubTech's Director of Managed
Services and Security.
Chris works with organizationsevery day to secure their
infrastructure, protect thecritical data, and build IT
(01:14):
strategies that enable safeinnovation.
And we also have Kerry Jordan,Chief of Staff of the City of
Boston.
In his role, Kerry providesstrategic leadership and
coordination across citydepartments, helping align
people, processes, andtechnology to deliver on the
city's mission.
With that, we're going to getstarted talking about our two
(01:37):
coins, our two sides of thecoin.
We look at the organizationaland security side of things, and
we look at the human andcultural side of things.
So let's kind of first meet ourguests, Chris and Carrie.
And you, I try to do my best atan introduction, but maybe you
(01:58):
can expand a little bit on yourroles and what you do and start
with Chris.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Sure.
Thank you, Adam.
My name is Chris Daggett.
I am the director of managedservices and security here at
Hub Tech.
I've been in technology for wellover 25 years now.
I've held various roles mostlyin the enterprise space around
server engineering, technologyrisk management, solution
(02:26):
architecture.
These types of roles that I'veheld in the past help me become
very well-rounded.
And you know, I can pretty muchspeak to anything technology
related that would impact anykind of company at this point in
time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:43):
That's great.
Thanks, Chris.
And Kerry, you have a reallycool job.
Why don't you tell us about it?
SPEAKER_05 (02:51):
Yeah, I serve as the chief of staff of the city of
Boston.
Um I work in the Innovation andTechnology Cabinet, been here
going on 18 years.
Um, prior to serving the rolethat I'm in, I worked for the
City Council TB programmingoperations and their tech team.
Um so I'm really proud to be amember of the city.
I was born and raised in theneighborhood of Dorchester, um,
(03:12):
and I'm a proud parent.
So um being in a place where Ican learn you know the ropes of
the city and give back to thecommunity has been a fantastic
journey in my does that alsomake you a PATS fan?
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
Are you a few absolutely no questions about
it?
Okay, good.
They're actually playing wellthis year.
I'm very happy.
Yeah, they are super.
So with that, let's start ourdiscussion and we're gonna break
this into pieces.
So, first, let's talk aboutbusiness and security.
And I'm gonna start just withChris, and then you guys can
maybe talk a bit about it.
But but Chris, when a company isfirst looking at AI, what's the
(03:49):
right way to evaluate toolsbefore in before rolling them
out?
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
So it really comes down to understanding what the
actual business needs are forthese AI tools and establishing
a baseline that's that's secureand that's gonna provide the um
the most reduced risk that willcome into the environment.
Um, you know, getting a anapproved AI tools list is very
(04:18):
important.
That will lay the you know thefoundational pieces for you know
what the end users can leverageum you know on this AI journey
and you know understanding whatbusiness units may need these AI
tools and where they canactually make the most impact.
(04:41):
You know, you may have a youknow, our our engineering
department, for example, we weleverage AI tools quite often.
And it's made our our roles andour jobs a lot simpler.
You know, we've been able toaugment a lot of the um wash,
rinse, and repeat um you know,tasks that we all have, and it's
(05:05):
given us a lot of cycles back inour day to focus on bigger and
better things.
So great.
SPEAKER_03 (05:12):
And Carrie, come on into this conversation a little
bit and let's talk about it fromthe government's perspective.
How does evaluation differ whenyou're accountable to the
citizens and the public trustwhen it comes to AI tools?
SPEAKER_05 (05:29):
Absolutely.
That's a great question, um,Adam.
Like Chris said, is a lot of itis making sure that we offer
training, we're bringing peoplealong on the journey because we
believe AI is here to stay.
So we we want to make sure thatas it's evolving, we're evolving
our thinking and our tooling sothat we can support the
workforce of the city of Boston.
In our particular department,we're in a um highly unionized
(05:50):
environment.
So a lot of the rules and andparameters set by collective
bargaining um limits what we canand can't do for sure.
Um, but we want to make surethat we're helping folks enable
themselves to be the mostefficient they can be by um
using AI tools.
SPEAKER_03 (06:07):
That's that's great.
But now I'll throw this both toto both of you guys.
I don't know like if you want tofight about the answer, but
security is always top of mind.
What's the biggest risks you seefor companies and government
when they adopt AI?
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
I'll start.
Uh I it's it's all about dataleakage.
You know, it's having that thatpersonal information uh that we
all need to be securing on aregular basis.
Um that can get leaked out intothe wild very quickly.
What folks need to understand isa lot of these free AI tools,
(06:45):
you know, what you're puttinginto them is actually going to
be out in the wild and inpublic.
So we actually had an examplewhere you know we had a finance
director reach out to us and shewas using the free chat GPT to
make her job a little simpler.
The bad thing about it is sheuploaded all of her company's
(07:10):
personal information up into thefree tool, and she didn't
realize that it was out in thewild now.
So, long story short, she had toself-report, but there is a
major risk to folks notunderstanding the power and the
risk associated to these tools.
We we are in a click-happyconvenience type of society, and
(07:34):
we we have a tendency to latchon to things that make our make
our lives easier.
You know, that's human nature,right?
Um Well, I think you taught methat.
SPEAKER_03 (07:43):
Like I didn't realize that when I go to
ChatGTP, I put um anything, anyquestion I ask, and it's now
there for anybody because I I'mI'm imagining the tool is
learning from everything, right?
And then keep on getting moreinformation.
And so I had no idea that if Igo to Copilot or Chat GTP or any
of this stuff, that it itretains it for me, but it's
(08:05):
retaining it for itself and forto share with everybody.
I had no idea until you told methat.
So that freaked me out a littlebit.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's scary, you know, and and it's
important to, you know, goingback to the approved AI list,
you know, use the paid fortools.
That's going to ensure that youknow your data stays within your
company's tenant, you know, andit's not gonna get out into the
wild.
SPEAKER_03 (08:26):
But Carrie, how do you stop like you got all these
people everywhere?
Like, you know, you're you'rethe city of Boston, they got
people in different places anddifferent jobs and different
PCs.
How do you stop them from goingto ask a question to ChatGTP on
the web?
SPEAKER_05 (08:43):
Yeah, we definitely try not to stop folks.
We we encourage people toexplore and make mistakes, but
we try to make sure that ifyou're, you know, we we cover
the rules.
We make sure that if you'regonna use personal information,
which we suggest you don't, useit within one of our certified
tools.
Make sure you're using the toolsthat we're putting forth for um
folks to participate, um, or orto you know get the best
(09:03):
results.
The the only tool we we weblocked so far from this from
the city's use was um one ofthose note-taking tools.
And we realized that they werejoining meetings unauthorized.
Um, and we we were reallyconcerned.
Actually, some of our our ourour um customers came to us and
said, Hey, I'm really concerned.
I didn't invite this this thistool into my meeting.
(09:24):
What are they doing here takingnotes?
SPEAKER_03 (09:26):
And oh so the A the AI note AI note-taking tool.
The AI note-taking tool.
And so you you blocked that.
I didn't I didn't realize thateither.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (09:36):
Yeah, there are a lot of free tools out there that
wanted to confirm consent.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (09:42):
Yep.
We want the two-party consent.
So we want to make sure thatboth both parties were were
agreed to be recorded.
Um, so that was one of the areaswhere we had to pivot.
Um, and once we once the toolsgot better, we learned how other
tools can take the notes youneed and and record it in a way
that gets that confirmation, orat least training folks to say,
hey, if you're gonna recordthis, make sure you're you're
sharing that in advance so thateveryone can can agree or
(10:05):
disagree.
So that definitely like shiftsour change of thinking.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
So sorry, because I don't understand exactly all the
different areas of the city ofBoston, but are you responsible
for the schools also?
SPEAKER_05 (10:17):
So so schools are part of our our footprint.
We're they have a separate ITteam, but we work pretty close
together to make sure that we'recreating policies together that
support and supplement oneanother.
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
Yeah, but so I I'd imagine I wouldn't want the kids
like like sure, they use it forhomework, but I I don't know.
There's things you probably dowant to block there that have
nothing to do with AI, likeTikTok and all this other junk,
but um, that's got to beinteresting.
All right.
Well, so let me let me ask youagain, Carrie.
I'll stay with you for a second.
From your side, how do youbalance innovation with the
(10:53):
risks when you're working withthe public sector?
Like, like this is really cool,it would really add a lot of
value, but I'm not really readyto deal with that yet.
I don't know if I'm this issomething we want to roll.
How do you how do you evaluatethis stuff?
SPEAKER_05 (11:08):
So so those are the two parts, but the the funny
part is we're we're constantlytrying to compete with the
conferences and the differentevents that the city workforce
gets to attend.
They go out and learn about allthese cool and exciting tools,
and they come back and it'slike, hey, I need this tool, and
it and it costs a whole bunch ofmoney.
So we we're like, hey, slowdown, let us evaluate the needs.
Um, and so we we create apolicy, we did it, we do a lot
(11:31):
of training, but we alsoencourage folks to introduce
those tools, let us evaluate it,let them let us put them through
our security metrics to makesure that you know this this
tool is gonna stand up and it'sgonna protect our data.
And um, you know, so it's soit's tough.
Where we we try to be theinnovators, but a lot of the
folks in the city of Boston umare also, you know, the the
latest and greatest comes out ofthis city.
(11:51):
So it's it's sometimeschallenging to be in front of
it.
Um, so we survey our workforce,we ask them, hey, what tools are
you using?
What tools would you like touse?
Um, and we really, really umcreate those feedback loops to
make sure we're iterating andand shifting things according to
what the workforce is demanding.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
When you do your surveys to get a good response
rate, or like do a lot of peoplejust say, I don't want to deal
with that.
SPEAKER_05 (12:13):
It keeps getting better.
Because the other thing is likefolks want to know, like, what
is this AR thing?
And and part of I think our ourrole is to demystify it, you
know.
So when they start to open theair and we're and we're lending
them information that kind ofresonates, I think they begin to
trust us.
So we're able to do a little bitmore and they want to
participate more.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Yeah, that user that user adoption piece is super,
super important.
Um, you know, as Kerry hadalluded to, you know, getting
the information out in front ofthe end user space, um, you
know, making sure that they'reeducated, they know the do's and
don'ts, um, getting them excitedabout it.
You know, I think those are allkey factors in the success of
(12:53):
any AI implementation.
You know, it's it's you know,Kerry had mentioned earlier that
AI is not going anywhere.
And it's, you know, it's gonnastay for a long time.
You know, it's not, I know thereare a lot of there's a lot of
speculation out there that AI isgonna be replacing jobs.
Uh I I see it as an opportunityto re-skill and kind of tighten
(13:18):
up how you do your role.
You know, it's everybody's gonnause these AI tools um
differently.
And you know, in many cases,that it might might be
disposable, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (13:30):
So that's a great, you know, kind of uh pivot to
the next part, which isorganizational change.
Like, how do you guys,especially with the city, how do
you get people to embrace AI,leverage AI, and not be afraid
of it?
Because exactly what you said,Chris.
Like, am I gonna start doingthis and now it's gonna know
what I do and it's gonna replaceme?
(13:51):
Like, do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_05 (13:54):
We do, but we we try to remind folks that you know,
someone has to prompt engineer,someone has to train the models
and tell the models what to do.
And in that human element isvaluable.
The other piece is making surethat we have that human element
to review the data that we'rereceiving, the answers and
responses to the prompts.
Um, and we still need that humanelement to make sure we're
confirming the facts and andthat sort of thing.
(14:16):
So I a lot of that that drawspeople, it's like, hey, we're it
makes it a little bit easier,but we also have to make sure
we're reviewing it and and youknow the responsibility of
information is ours.
SPEAKER_03 (14:27):
So but do you see people like are scared of it or
they're like they're into it?
Like what is it?
Like a 50-50 thing.
SPEAKER_05 (14:34):
So I believe we surveyed our workforce, and over
60% said that they're using it,whether in a personal or
professional capacity.
So it's definitely on the rise.
And in again, with your devices,your your cell phone, you can't
avoid it.
I I got a new device, and somuch of it is it's in there.
So it's like, hey, you lost yourbank card.
You want to update it here?
I'm like, not not with not withyour, you know, not with your AI
(14:57):
tool in the mix.
Right all the company, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (15:02):
What's funny is my kids use it for school now.
I thought like I wasn't gonnatell them it existed, but they
knew already, right?
Like they knew everything.
And the teachers now have um anAI detection tool that tells
them like what percentage ofthis was written.
And the teachers are great.
They've been asking the kids,like, what does this word mean?
(15:22):
And the kids like, I don't know.
And then one kid asked, oneteacher asked the kid, hey, you
use chat GTP for this, didn'tyou?
He goes, No, ma'am, no, I useCopilot.
I thought that was a pretty goodanswer.
So, anyway.
Um, so so so Chris, let's gotalk about the same with you
know leadership andorganizational change and and
(15:43):
how does HubTech, and I don'twant this to really be a
promotion hub tech, but but butthat's where you are.
And and how does HubTech helpits clients navigate not just
the tech, but also the peopleside of this adoption?
What what do you guys do forthat?
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
So it's you know, again, it's important to
understand you know the do's anddon'ts.
Um the adoption piece is a it'sa journey.
Um, you know, it it's all aboutmaking sure there's a lot of
open dialogue uh with the endusers, understanding business
cases, and you know, AI willtouch every single, eventually
(16:22):
touch every single businessprocess that any given company
has.
Uh, whether folks want tobelieve that or not, that's the
reality of what we're dealingwith today.
Um but you know, Carrie hadbrought up proof of concepts,
you know, emerging technologies,things like that.
It's tough to stay on top ofthings.
(16:42):
There are always new toolscoming out, but prioritizing
what you want to approach firstis very, very important.
You know, there could be some,you know, having a you know a
business analysis done where youcan identify where we can
leverage AI to get moreefficiency.
(17:04):
You know, can we use it forforms, you know, form creation
or training or you know,whatever the case may be, call
center.
Um, you know, these are allspecific use cases that could
impact any business's bottomline.
So the the business itself needsto understand how it operates
(17:25):
and where they're gonna achievethe most bang for the buck.
SPEAKER_03 (17:28):
So you're gonna spend time with CEOs or and and
Kerry's side with the the city,and you're gonna maybe help them
try to figure out how toleverage AI.
Is that what you're saying?
What how they get to get how doyou they're gonna get bang for
their buck?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um we would we would go in, we would interview you
know key stakeholders, and youknow, we need to understand
where the pain points are.
So, you know, understandingwhere those pain points lie and
how we can, you know, and thisis aside from AI, this is a a
conversation that I have withbusinesses all the time.
You know, understanding painpoints, aligning them with
(18:05):
technology, you know, that's thename of the game.
That's how you're gonnamaximize, you know, your spend,
your strategy, you know,everything across the board.
And you know, you're gonna, youknow, it comes down to having a
strategy, having goals andmilestones in place.
And, you know, if you reallystick to the plan and ensure
(18:27):
that, you know, as Carrie hadalluded to, you know, the
training, the communication, youknow, all those kind of soft
skill pieces are crucial, verycrucial.
SPEAKER_05 (18:39):
But I also think we're just at a we're at an
interesting, oh sorry, I I wasjust gonna say we're at an
interesting time whereinnovations are just happening
so frequently.
So you want to be ahead of thelatest and greatest, you know.
You you kind of want to knowwhat the new trend is so that
you can stay at least informed,you know, and right I think in
(19:00):
in our bureaucracy it'schallenging because you have
people who've been doing thingsthe same way for 40-50 years,
you know what I mean?
They're like, don't comeinterrupting my process, this
thing works, you know.
But if you can leverage you knowAI to help them be a little bit
more efficient or save a littlebit of time, then I think we're
we're checking that box.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yep.
And I think that's where youknow there's a challenge there,
right?
You know, you had mentioned theum, you know, some folks are
kind of set in their ways, youknow.
You have uh C levels andbusiness owners, they've been
operating at a certain capacityfor a long time and they've been
successful doing it, you know.
And you have somebody, you know,like Hub or another company
coming in for an AI readinesskind of assessment, and they're
(19:41):
like, We're fine, we don'treally need anything, we're
we're doing just fine.
It's um quantifying the returnon investment and you know what
kind of efficiency gains they'regonna get, which will ultimately
impact their bottom line.
You know, you you kind of needto talk at their, you know, what
(20:02):
speaks to them.
You know, if you go into speedsand feeds and things like that,
you're not going to get acrossto that level of person.
So you kind of need to adjust,you know, know your audience,
adjust your, you know, it's notyour pitch, but your approach,
because different types of uhroles will speak different types
of languages.
(20:22):
You know, if you speak technicalto a C level, you're going to
glaze them over very quickly.
So you know being able to getthrough to them and you know
speak their language, understanduh you know, where the
challenges lie and how to bridgethe gaps and leverage the
technology and the AI to helpthem out is the name of the
(20:44):
game.
SPEAKER_03 (20:45):
And do you guys like Carrie, do you have like guard
guardrails or like does an alarmgo off if somebody's doing
something wrong with the tools?
You know, maybe they're tryingto find personal stuff or doing
something that you know is ano-no like it do you have a way
that you get alerted so I I I Ipersonally don't I'm not certain
(21:09):
our cyber security team isdefinitely on top of that.
SPEAKER_05 (21:12):
They definitely make sure we're using the right
tools.
We we have a list that we'redeveloping and constantly
revisiting to make sure thatfolks are getting access to
tools that they need and want.
I think one of the things thatthat Chris mentioned earlier
that helps kind of make it apackage deal is that cyber
awareness.
So um here in the city we we'vereally been pushing these like
quarterly cyber awarenesstrainings um which in the
(21:34):
beginning seems so excessive butwhen you when you're pushing a
fishing campaign you're gettingtext messages like is this
legit?
Right, right you know you'regetting across to them so when
you supplement you know the AItools in in the opportunities to
to for efficiency um I thinkthat that just kind of helps
tell the story better.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Helps make things better for all I also feel as
though you know making thattraining fun is important.
You know it's I I run a I run aprogram here and I run programs
for a lot of different companiesand I find the most success when
I can make the training fun andeasily digestible that way you
can cast a wide net you knowit's um it it's tough.
(22:18):
So you like game of people don'twant to do a lot of people don't
want to do the trainingespecially in a union in a
unionized shop you know inparticular you know they don't
want to take time out of theirday to to do it.
SPEAKER_05 (22:28):
So um and and and when you do these AI assessments
Chris um are you you are youfirst checking all the
cybersecurity stuff as is thatpart of it to make sure
essentially you know we would wewould need to understand you
know the um the tools thatthey're leveraging in the
environment uh what kind ofmonitoring and auditing they
(22:51):
have in place and potentiallyyou know provide recommendations
for tweaking monitoring andauditing and alerting and you
know that way you can kind ofget a grip on okay you know if
somebody does use a tool thatisn't sanctioned you know it
will create a ticket or an alertsomebody would know they can get
(23:14):
spoken to whatever um again thisis all new to everybody and
we're all just trying to figureit you know we're figuring this
out together um it's not amatter of slapping somebody on
the wrist you know for for thefun of it it's it's we all need
to understand you know to yourpoint Adam the the guardrails
(23:35):
you know the space we can playin you know the the safe space
and then another fun thing forus in this in the schools you
know we a few of us have visiteda few of the high schools and
they're like oh AI no thank youyou know but when you when you
show them the you know the howto use it to check your coding
and that sort of thing it theyrealize like oh there is
(23:56):
additional value here that Ididn't think about it's it's
more than an LLM tool you knowthere's so many more things we
can do if we were exposed tothem if we knew about them.
So I think that sometimes ourteam serves as a IT liaison to
the rest of the the thedepartments here to help them
kind of see what else is outthere.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
And and it's funny because you know the the these
AI tools depending on howcreative you are and how how you
dive into it um and figure outyou know it it's really
interesting like uh we weleverage Microsoft Copilot quite
a bit in our environment and Ican start a chat with with AI
(24:38):
and it will provide me theactuan go deeper here do you do
you want to you know evaluatethis do you want to look at this
and you know in many cases I'mI'm at you know at night I'm at
at home just kind of you knowbanging away going to the note
it's like two in the morning youknow and I didn't even think
(25:01):
that that time went by it justit took me on this journey that
I didn't even think I could goon.
You know it and it's it's reallyinteresting.
You know that it's it it alldepends on the on the user and
how creative they want to be butit's very powerful the use cases
are endless and the power ofthis tool is is immense.
SPEAKER_05 (25:21):
So are there are there any concerns that your
that your customers or clientshave flagged for you that that
kind of stand out as things thatyou start to trend towards or or
redirect them about so in mystrategic business reviews I I
will ask flat out you know verytransparently um hey you know
what's your plan for introducingAI into your environment where
(25:44):
are you on the journey and youknow do you have any questions
or pain points right now?
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
Have you started you know your end user training and
getting the word out have youbeen getting any uh feedback and
how how have you been respondingto it and those challenges
around the feedback um you knowit's keeping an open mind and
keeping open dialogue is goingto be essential to you know any
(26:12):
successful implementation of AIso so um it who's who's ahead of
you who in accepting AI and andtrying to adopt AI is it public
sector or commercial who's aheadof the curve so I think
everybody's trying to adopt itand I think I would if I thought
(26:40):
about it I would have to sayprivate sector is probably ahead
of public sector due to due tobudgetary and due to um the
desire to be bleeding edge.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
So you know the the public sector is gonna I feel
will have a slower adoption ratehowever personally I feel as
though slow and steady is what'sgoing to win the race in you
know in this instance you knowdiving in I I've read a lot
(27:17):
about you know companies thatare have gone in headfirst and
now they're starting to toreally revert back to how they
did things before because theythey went in too quick and they
didn't you know really take timeto understand the journey and
they didn't have a well thoughtout strategy and they didn't
cover the bases and and thingslike that.
(27:37):
So it's it's an evolvingtechnology and it will it does
change from day to day um it'sgonna get better uh more
powerful and you know right nowyou know there's another
technology that's right on theon the tail of AI and that's
called quantum computing andthat's gonna bring us to a whole
(27:59):
nother place.
So this AI is the tip of theiceberg.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
So that's another episode that's great Chris.
So so Carrie with the city ofBoston and the cities in general
the bigger cities do theycommunicate with each other and
share ideas?
Like do you do you say in acompetitive way and just a
sharing knowledge way do youguys communicate and say who's
doing what and maybe we shoulddo it that way.
SPEAKER_05 (28:22):
That's a cool idea do you guys hang together
absolutely absolutely so our CIOum Santiago Garcia has been one
of the leaders one of the firstpolicies um created was drafted
um under his penmanship um andit got distributed and picked up
almost I think internationallyat this point so I think we were
proud to be one of the first tokind of get something in writing
(28:43):
but we we've been backing up bydoing those surveys and
evaluating the use cases andmaking sure that we're
supporting our workforce and intheir needs.
But from there you know we'repart of peer city review groups
we're part of the um theMassachusetts the the EOS team
in in the state along with thecity had a uh a resource group
(29:04):
under the the leadership of thegovernor and our chief was uh
was a member of thatorganization so you know we were
we're definitely early adoptersand we continue to like push the
needle um but we also are pacingit in a way because we're like
got to keep a mind out forpricing and seeing how the
prices can fluctuate veryquickly so we're I think it
makes us that much moreintentional because we're using
(29:24):
um taxpayer dollars to to do thework.
Yeah and is there some kind ofis there some kind of ranking
though for like cities likewho's the most technologically
advanced like is there somethinglike that that exists like um
like the the the college pollsor something so there's there's
the um so we part we participatein gov tech has a digital city
(29:46):
survey um for this okay for twoyears in a row we we we came in
sixth place um of large citiesof 500 000 above so and we we're
ranking below like LA and SanDiego and that sort of thing um
but we're on the list we're onthe map so yeah no that's good
it's but LA LA was up there Icould see San Diego but I would
(30:07):
think like San Francisco orsomething would be up at the top
it was maybe maybe it was thecounty maybe they they claim the
county I I can't remember thebreakdown I just I know that
we're further down there inLincoln than we'd like to find
out where Miami date is becauseI think we're we're at the
bottom uh but anyway Chris Imight have stepped on you what
were you no no worries yeah Imean Carrie I was when we spoke
(30:28):
on the panel together um at theMass Digital Government Summit I
was so thrilled to hear how faralong um all of you folks from
the Commonwealth are on your AIjourney and you know you're
you're really doing a fantasticjob and you're you're really
leaps and bounds ahead of many.
So great job we appreciate thatyeah we I think it's just the
(30:50):
partnerships you know it's it'sfolks opening their door their
doors and their their GitHubsets and us returning the favor
so we're able to do more withless um you know we're I feel
like we're a scrappy bunch we'reforced to be because there's
there's only but so many of usto do a lot of things all at
once.
So we have to look at ourfriends and our neighbors and
and figure out what tools we canenable to to do more.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Life's all about relationships, right?
SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
Absolutely and and going back to the employees like
so you got a bunch of employeesthat are on the computer every
day and then you got kind ofthis more non-technical staff
that you know so how how do youget them up to speed do you
train them is it hard are theydifficult to work with like
they're just like now all of asudden you want them to do
(31:36):
something technological maybe Idon't know I I mean I think at
this point most folks arealready on the path there you
know whether they're in thefield and they're using tablets
or mobile devices um you know somaking sure that when we're
evaluating those tools they'reable to be offered the the AI
tools that can help their work.
SPEAKER_05 (31:54):
You know again if we can if we can look at 100% of
someone's workload and tacklethat like at least 20% of that
and make it a little bit betterfor them, that's that's the
goal.
So and it's not always easyespecially as folks are are kind
of stuck in their ways or or mayhave challenging embracing
embracing technology we're alsomaking sure we're creating the
systems that can support it andcreate redundancies and whatever
(32:16):
else is necessary down the line.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
And and um and going back to the business side of
things you know when we we'retalking about like businesses
versus public sector when AIstarted to become a thing I
guess you saw these monstercompanies embracing it quickly
and integrating it intoeverything whether it's their
chatbots or it's Amazon is likeeverything is AI now in
(32:41):
internally or for the tools thatthey give their partners to use
and I was thinking like oh theseguys with a lot of money are
going to crush everybody elseand become much more efficient
and blah blah blah but I stillthink that small medium
businesses could could compete.
I mean and what's your thoughtsbecause I I don't think they
(33:03):
were fast at the bat but Idefinitely think they could
compete.
So what what's your thoughtsChris on that?
Because I'd love them to be ableto catch up to these beamuths.
SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
Well what's what's happening is you know AI is
essentially leveling the playingfield as far as you know in the
past you'd have somebody likeyou know myself or Carrie that's
been in the industry for quitequite some time right um folks
that learn how to use thesetools effectively and
(33:32):
efficiently will be able toskill up very quick and be able
to compete with folks that havebeen in the industry like us um
you know at a very quick rapidrate.
So you know it's everybodyacross the board is going to
have to reskill at some point toyou know take them to another
(33:52):
place.
It's it's really you know thefolks that have you know these
these all these acronyms afterthe name and you know the
education and this that and theother you know you have somebody
coming out of school and ifthey're creative with how
they're leveraging AI I meanthey could leave these people
that have these big educationsin the dust um it's it's really
(34:14):
interesting and a lot of thesesmall companies you know you're
seeing a lot of these startupsbecome very successful quickly
and you know folks are you knowthese young kids are able to
stand up a business in days youknow that's so go to market is
is very rapid.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
How do the SMBs decide what AI tool they and the
and and the cities like how doyou decide like for the big
picture tools like chat GTPCopilot you got Gemini I guess
is Google like like um I thinkElon's got his own thing I don't
even know what it is and and sohow what how do you what do you
(34:54):
pick?
Because there's more coming upevery day.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Well I I think a good starting point is you need
to understand what your coreenvironment is running on.
You know you have some shopsthat are Microsoft you have some
that are Google um you know itall depends on the situation.
You know it's putting the righttool that fits the best in your
environment you know if you canstay within your ecosystem
(35:18):
that's where you want to be thatway you're not moving things
from one platform to anotherit's going to stay nice and
tight.
You know it's at Hub we use uhyou know we're a 365 shop and we
use copilot so copilot shouldwin though but I still thought
more people use chat so chat gptis huge um but again it's a it's
(35:41):
a kind of a a newer player andchat GPT's collaboration suite I
mean it's I don't even I don'tknow if it even holds a candle
to you know what Google orMicrosoft would even offer.
SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
It seems like everybody's a Microsoft shop.
I mean Kerry do you guys useGoogle or are you more Microsoft
Shop?
SPEAKER_05 (36:03):
Yeah we're we're we're a Google shop here so we
use Gemini heavily okay and thenbut we also we're also like
developing our own tools thatcan sometimes Jim and I might
not give us the response we needso we might run it through Cloud
or we might run it through youknow Anthropic or something
else.
So it's really interesting to toknow what's out there, explore
(36:23):
what's out there.
And another thing that I wasthinking from your your question
Adam is you know I went to a toa conference and one of the
tools that was being developedfor another city was um cyber
security tools for smallbusinesses.
So you might not be able toafford a uh a security team and
in in that sort of thing.
So if you can leverage AI tomonitor your your systems and
(36:44):
support you in that way that'sthat's one of the things that
we're starting to see trend.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
Yeah we I see that quite a bit at the conferences
uh I see more and more uhstartups popping up with these
very innovative uh platformsthat are end-to-end security um
you know as opposed to all rightwe have these 12 solutions you
know that that work welltogether any company is going to
(37:09):
want to buy one solution itsimplifies billing it just makes
it easier to support so thereit's not a stack of different
things they're gonna get oneright but Adam to to answer your
question right uh so open aichat GPT that stuff is typically
it's integrated into a lot ofthese platforms already so you
(37:30):
know Google leverages itMicrosoft leverages it you know
it's and you know there are alot of other LLMs out there that
are designed for specific thingsyou know for image creation for
content authoring for you knowthe it it just you know to
carry's point some things do youknow do that analysis better
(37:51):
than others cool so reallyreally good stuff um but we're
gonna kind of start coming tothe end here and wrapping it up
but I definitely want to makesure we cover some ground with
kind of advice so first let'slet's talk about employees so
Carrie and then Chris like ifyou could leave employees with
(38:13):
one message about ai right nowwhat what would it be?
SPEAKER_05 (38:16):
And then Chris you can hit it after that my message
is typically especially for ITfolks bring bring others on the
journey with you you know um asyou're learning you you might
not realize how simple or howchallenging it is for someone
else so so so bring someonealong with you help them
understand what it is you'redoing demystify it a little bit
(38:38):
take um help help themunderstand what prompt
engineering is let themunderstand what rag augmentation
is there there's just so manythings to to learn and it's it's
fairly easy with someone to kindof help guide you along the way
so don't be afraid to helpsomeone out and bring someone on
the journey with you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
And Chris my bit my message would be embrace the
opportunity you have presentedin front of you today.
I'd spoken about you know thekind of level setting the
playing field um AI is going toallow a lot of folks to have
open doors that they wouldn'thave previously so they need to
(39:19):
approach it with an open mindand you know get as get as
educated as you can around itand you know it it's just a
matter of starting off small andyou know digging it you know
it's not you can't you kind ofneed to like anything else
you're not gonna be an expertright out of the gate but as you
(39:41):
play with it and understand itmore and get more creative with
it the outcomes are going to befantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (39:49):
Cool well thanks for that and then since I've been
asking all the questions I'dlove for you guys just to maybe
riff a little bit on just youknow what what would be your
closing thoughts on AI, AI andsecurity, employees,
organization.
You you pick it.
Why don't you try to close outwith something that um I I left
(40:11):
out.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I feel the you know we really didn't touch upon uh
governance.
I think that's a big uh humanpiece that will not go away.
There is a lot of bias um thatthe LLMs build out and it's the
human that will be responsiblefor keeping that bias in check
(40:37):
and to ensure you know ensuringthat you know you're adhering to
certain regulatory you knowrequirements where necessary or
you know is the data accurate umyou know those types of things
are going to be crucial uhmoving forward you know these
are you're saying you're sayingAI is biased like it it has a
(40:58):
left or a right or somethingyeah it'll start to build its
own opinions on things based onall the information that it's
provided so the more it's gonnait's the more static that's out
there the more these things aregoing to get confused.
It's have you ever seen themovie um iRobot I I've heard
(41:18):
about it I'm not allowed towatch yeah essentially the you
know these AI engines are gonnaget very powerful very quickly
uh given all the informationthat they're provided and
they're gonna start to you knowcome to conclusions on their own
um almost you know thinking likea human does but you know if
(41:40):
they have certain biases andthings like that that's gonna
sway how they react and how theyrespond to certain prompts you
know the the prompt engineeringis you know essential to getting
you know good clean um well toget if you can craft a good
prompt then you should get whatyou're looking for fairly
(42:03):
quickly you will however have toreview the output because you
know it's AI is just likeWikipedia you know it's like
garbage in garbage out you knowthere's no governing body of all
right this is the de facto theseare all facts that are that are
coming back at you from AI.
Um you know I I leverage it fora lot of content authoring and
(42:26):
you know I can probably get 70%of the way with AI but I need to
put in that 30% to get it to thefinish line.
And I absolutely need to reviewthe output of what AI has
provided me.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yeah so that's a good point the governance um I
haven't thought of that becauseI didn't even realize that um it
might think a way you you youmight not be thinking or right
have a view on things that youdon't actually agree it might
sway your you know your howyou're thinking about something
crazy and and Carrie you're likewhat what did we miss that we
(43:04):
should have covered okay yeah II would agree I would agree with
that for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (43:20):
I think that in the city you know we're trying to
create guardrails like like umAdam mentioned making sure that
the tools that we're exploringand we're using are kind of
crafted to to be safe spaces butagain do do your own research do
your homework understand thethings beyond what we're able to
share and show you um you knowin the beginning there was so
much talk about theenvironmental impact of of AI
(43:42):
tools but you know we we didsome research and we see how it
compares to you know regularsearches or you know vehicles
and other things like that.
So you know I think the longerthese tools are here and they're
they're growing it's it'sopportunities to for us to learn
and adapt and you know creatingthat learner's mindset is always
a healthy tool to carry in yourtool belt because it just helps
(44:02):
you be become conscious of theway you're approaching things um
beyond just AI it's just youknow the cyber awareness and and
the consciousness of of just youknow exploring tools for your
for your own use cases but justmaking sure you're putting the
right information and you're notputting in certain information
to protect yourself and youryour your information and your
family.
SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
And um and don't take it as a gospel you're
saying prove proof this stuff.
Absolutely okay that that'sgreat great great stuff so so
with that we're gonna wrap itup.
I mean we could talk about thisall day but uh we should
definitely do something onquantum in the future but um I
really really appreciate youguys um joining us today we have
(44:43):
two incredible experts with usand let's just keep the
conversation going and keep AIgrowing.
SPEAKER_00 (44:49):
Thanks for tuning in to the Beyond the Firewall
podcast powered by HubTech.
If you found this conversationuseful follow or subscribe
wherever you listen to stayupdated on new episodes.
For more information aboutHubTech's IT solutions and
services please visithubtech.com
What's really driving the future of IT?
How are leaders stay secure,efficient, and ahead of change?
Welcome to the Beyond theFirewall Podcast.
Powered by HubTech, where we gopast the headlines to talk with
technology leaders, industryexperts, and IT practitioners
shaping how we work, live, andlead.
Let's get into today's episodeHello everyone.
SPEAKER_03 (00:28):
I'm Adam Schaefer, host of the new HubTech
Conversations on ArtificialIntelligence podcast.
AI is like a two-sided coin.
On the one side, it couldaccelerate business operations,
improve decision making, andunlock new opportunities.
On the other, it raises seriousquestions around data
protection, cybersecurity, andhow employees can embrace AI
(00:50):
tools without fear or misuse.
To help unpack these topics, I'mjoined today by two incredible
guests to help us explore bothsides of the coin.
Today we have Chris Daggett,HubTech's Director of Managed
Services and Security.
Chris works with organizationsevery day to secure their
infrastructure, protect thecritical data, and build IT
(01:14):
strategies that enable safeinnovation.
And we also have Kerry Jordan,Chief of Staff of the City of
Boston.
In his role, Kerry providesstrategic leadership and
coordination across citydepartments, helping align
people, processes, andtechnology to deliver on the
city's mission.
With that, we're going to getstarted talking about our two
(01:37):
coins, our two sides of thecoin.
We look at the organizationaland security side of things, and
we look at the human andcultural side of things.
So let's kind of first meet ourguests, Chris and Carrie.
And you, I try to do my best atan introduction, but maybe you
(01:58):
can expand a little bit on yourroles and what you do and start
with Chris.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Sure.
Thank you, Adam.
My name is Chris Daggett.
I am the director of managedservices and security here at
Hub Tech.
I've been in technology for wellover 25 years now.
I've held various roles mostlyin the enterprise space around
server engineering, technologyrisk management, solution
(02:26):
architecture.
These types of roles that I'veheld in the past help me become
very well-rounded.
And you know, I can pretty muchspeak to anything technology
related that would impact anykind of company at this point in
time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:43):
That's great.
Thanks, Chris.
And Kerry, you have a reallycool job.
Why don't you tell us about it?
SPEAKER_05 (02:51):
Yeah, I serve as the chief of staff of the city of
Boston.
Um I work in the Innovation andTechnology Cabinet, been here
going on 18 years.
Um, prior to serving the rolethat I'm in, I worked for the
City Council TB programmingoperations and their tech team.
Um so I'm really proud to be amember of the city.
I was born and raised in theneighborhood of Dorchester, um,
(03:12):
and I'm a proud parent.
So um being in a place where Ican learn you know the ropes of
the city and give back to thecommunity has been a fantastic
journey in my does that alsomake you a PATS fan?
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
Are you a few absolutely no questions about
it?
Okay, good.
They're actually playing wellthis year.
I'm very happy.
Yeah, they are super.
So with that, let's start ourdiscussion and we're gonna break
this into pieces.
So, first, let's talk aboutbusiness and security.
And I'm gonna start just withChris, and then you guys can
maybe talk a bit about it.
But but Chris, when a company isfirst looking at AI, what's the
(03:49):
right way to evaluate toolsbefore in before rolling them
out?
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
So it really comes down to understanding what the
actual business needs are forthese AI tools and establishing
a baseline that's that's secureand that's gonna provide the um
the most reduced risk that willcome into the environment.
Um, you know, getting a anapproved AI tools list is very
(04:18):
important.
That will lay the you know thefoundational pieces for you know
what the end users can leverageum you know on this AI journey
and you know understanding whatbusiness units may need these AI
tools and where they canactually make the most impact.
(04:41):
You know, you may have a youknow, our our engineering
department, for example, we weleverage AI tools quite often.
And it's made our our roles andour jobs a lot simpler.
You know, we've been able toaugment a lot of the um wash,
rinse, and repeat um you know,tasks that we all have, and it's
(05:05):
given us a lot of cycles back inour day to focus on bigger and
better things.
So great.
SPEAKER_03 (05:12):
And Carrie, come on into this conversation a little
bit and let's talk about it fromthe government's perspective.
How does evaluation differ whenyou're accountable to the
citizens and the public trustwhen it comes to AI tools?
SPEAKER_05 (05:29):
Absolutely.
That's a great question, um,Adam.
Like Chris said, is a lot of itis making sure that we offer
training, we're bringing peoplealong on the journey because we
believe AI is here to stay.
So we we want to make sure thatas it's evolving, we're evolving
our thinking and our tooling sothat we can support the
workforce of the city of Boston.
In our particular department,we're in a um highly unionized
(05:50):
environment.
So a lot of the rules and andparameters set by collective
bargaining um limits what we canand can't do for sure.
Um, but we want to make surethat we're helping folks enable
themselves to be the mostefficient they can be by um
using AI tools.
SPEAKER_03 (06:07):
That's that's great.
But now I'll throw this both toto both of you guys.
I don't know like if you want tofight about the answer, but
security is always top of mind.
What's the biggest risks you seefor companies and government
when they adopt AI?
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
I'll start.
Uh I it's it's all about dataleakage.
You know, it's having that thatpersonal information uh that we
all need to be securing on aregular basis.
Um that can get leaked out intothe wild very quickly.
What folks need to understand isa lot of these free AI tools,
(06:45):
you know, what you're puttinginto them is actually going to
be out in the wild and inpublic.
So we actually had an examplewhere you know we had a finance
director reach out to us and shewas using the free chat GPT to
make her job a little simpler.
The bad thing about it is sheuploaded all of her company's
(07:10):
personal information up into thefree tool, and she didn't
realize that it was out in thewild now.
So, long story short, she had toself-report, but there is a
major risk to folks notunderstanding the power and the
risk associated to these tools.
We we are in a click-happyconvenience type of society, and
(07:34):
we we have a tendency to latchon to things that make our make
our lives easier.
You know, that's human nature,right?
Um Well, I think you taught methat.
SPEAKER_03 (07:43):
Like I didn't realize that when I go to
ChatGTP, I put um anything, anyquestion I ask, and it's now
there for anybody because I I'mI'm imagining the tool is
learning from everything, right?
And then keep on getting moreinformation.
And so I had no idea that if Igo to Copilot or Chat GTP or any
of this stuff, that it itretains it for me, but it's
(08:05):
retaining it for itself and forto share with everybody.
I had no idea until you told methat.
So that freaked me out a littlebit.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's scary, you know, and and it's
important to, you know, goingback to the approved AI list,
you know, use the paid fortools.
That's going to ensure that youknow your data stays within your
company's tenant, you know, andit's not gonna get out into the
wild.
SPEAKER_03 (08:26):
But Carrie, how do you stop like you got all these
people everywhere?
Like, you know, you're you'rethe city of Boston, they got
people in different places anddifferent jobs and different
PCs.
How do you stop them from goingto ask a question to ChatGTP on
the web?
SPEAKER_05 (08:43):
Yeah, we definitely try not to stop folks.
We we encourage people toexplore and make mistakes, but
we try to make sure that ifyou're, you know, we we cover
the rules.
We make sure that if you'regonna use personal information,
which we suggest you don't, useit within one of our certified
tools.
Make sure you're using the toolsthat we're putting forth for um
folks to participate, um, or orto you know get the best
(09:03):
results.
The the only tool we we weblocked so far from this from
the city's use was um one ofthose note-taking tools.
And we realized that they werejoining meetings unauthorized.
Um, and we we were reallyconcerned.
Actually, some of our our ourour um customers came to us and
said, Hey, I'm really concerned.
I didn't invite this this thistool into my meeting.
(09:24):
What are they doing here takingnotes?
SPEAKER_03 (09:26):
And oh so the A the AI note AI note-taking tool.
The AI note-taking tool.
And so you you blocked that.
I didn't I didn't realize thateither.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (09:36):
Yeah, there are a lot of free tools out there that
wanted to confirm consent.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (09:42):
Yep.
We want the two-party consent.
So we want to make sure thatboth both parties were were
agreed to be recorded.
Um, so that was one of the areaswhere we had to pivot.
Um, and once we once the toolsgot better, we learned how other
tools can take the notes youneed and and record it in a way
that gets that confirmation, orat least training folks to say,
hey, if you're gonna recordthis, make sure you're you're
sharing that in advance so thateveryone can can agree or
(10:05):
disagree.
So that definitely like shiftsour change of thinking.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
So sorry, because I don't understand exactly all the
different areas of the city ofBoston, but are you responsible
for the schools also?
SPEAKER_05 (10:17):
So so schools are part of our our footprint.
We're they have a separate ITteam, but we work pretty close
together to make sure that we'recreating policies together that
support and supplement oneanother.
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
Yeah, but so I I'd imagine I wouldn't want the kids
like like sure, they use it forhomework, but I I don't know.
There's things you probably dowant to block there that have
nothing to do with AI, likeTikTok and all this other junk,
but um, that's got to beinteresting.
All right.
Well, so let me let me ask youagain, Carrie.
I'll stay with you for a second.
From your side, how do youbalance innovation with the
(10:53):
risks when you're working withthe public sector?
Like, like this is really cool,it would really add a lot of
value, but I'm not really readyto deal with that yet.
I don't know if I'm this issomething we want to roll.
How do you how do you evaluatethis stuff?
SPEAKER_05 (11:08):
So so those are the two parts, but the the funny
part is we're we're constantlytrying to compete with the
conferences and the differentevents that the city workforce
gets to attend.
They go out and learn about allthese cool and exciting tools,
and they come back and it'slike, hey, I need this tool, and
it and it costs a whole bunch ofmoney.
So we we're like, hey, slowdown, let us evaluate the needs.
Um, and so we we create apolicy, we did it, we do a lot
(11:31):
of training, but we alsoencourage folks to introduce
those tools, let us evaluate it,let them let us put them through
our security metrics to makesure that you know this this
tool is gonna stand up and it'sgonna protect our data.
And um, you know, so it's soit's tough.
Where we we try to be theinnovators, but a lot of the
folks in the city of Boston umare also, you know, the the
latest and greatest comes out ofthis city.
(11:51):
So it's it's sometimeschallenging to be in front of
it.
Um, so we survey our workforce,we ask them, hey, what tools are
you using?
What tools would you like touse?
Um, and we really, really umcreate those feedback loops to
make sure we're iterating andand shifting things according to
what the workforce is demanding.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
When you do your surveys to get a good response
rate, or like do a lot of peoplejust say, I don't want to deal
with that.
SPEAKER_05 (12:13):
It keeps getting better.
Because the other thing is likefolks want to know, like, what
is this AR thing?
And and part of I think our ourrole is to demystify it, you
know.
So when they start to open theair and we're and we're lending
them information that kind ofresonates, I think they begin to
trust us.
So we're able to do a little bitmore and they want to
participate more.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Yeah, that user that user adoption piece is super,
super important.
Um, you know, as Kerry hadalluded to, you know, getting
the information out in front ofthe end user space, um, you
know, making sure that they'reeducated, they know the do's and
don'ts, um, getting them excitedabout it.
You know, I think those are allkey factors in the success of
(12:53):
any AI implementation.
You know, it's it's you know,Kerry had mentioned earlier that
AI is not going anywhere.
And it's, you know, it's gonnastay for a long time.
You know, it's not, I know thereare a lot of there's a lot of
speculation out there that AI isgonna be replacing jobs.
Uh I I see it as an opportunityto re-skill and kind of tighten
(13:18):
up how you do your role.
You know, it's everybody's gonnause these AI tools um
differently.
And you know, in many cases,that it might might be
disposable, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (13:30):
So that's a great, you know, kind of uh pivot to
the next part, which isorganizational change.
Like, how do you guys,especially with the city, how do
you get people to embrace AI,leverage AI, and not be afraid
of it?
Because exactly what you said,Chris.
Like, am I gonna start doingthis and now it's gonna know
what I do and it's gonna replaceme?
(13:51):
Like, do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_05 (13:54):
We do, but we we try to remind folks that you know,
someone has to prompt engineer,someone has to train the models
and tell the models what to do.
And in that human element isvaluable.
The other piece is making surethat we have that human element
to review the data that we'rereceiving, the answers and
responses to the prompts.
Um, and we still need that humanelement to make sure we're
confirming the facts and andthat sort of thing.
(14:16):
So I a lot of that that drawspeople, it's like, hey, we're it
makes it a little bit easier,but we also have to make sure
we're reviewing it and and youknow the responsibility of
information is ours.
SPEAKER_03 (14:27):
So but do you see people like are scared of it or
they're like they're into it?
Like what is it?
Like a 50-50 thing.
SPEAKER_05 (14:34):
So I believe we surveyed our workforce, and over
60% said that they're using it,whether in a personal or
professional capacity.
So it's definitely on the rise.
And in again, with your devices,your your cell phone, you can't
avoid it.
I I got a new device, and somuch of it is it's in there.
So it's like, hey, you lost yourbank card.
You want to update it here?
I'm like, not not with not withyour, you know, not with your AI
(14:57):
tool in the mix.
Right all the company, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (15:02):
What's funny is my kids use it for school now.
I thought like I wasn't gonnatell them it existed, but they
knew already, right?
Like they knew everything.
And the teachers now have um anAI detection tool that tells
them like what percentage ofthis was written.
And the teachers are great.
They've been asking the kids,like, what does this word mean?
(15:22):
And the kids like, I don't know.
And then one kid asked, oneteacher asked the kid, hey, you
use chat GTP for this, didn'tyou?
He goes, No, ma'am, no, I useCopilot.
I thought that was a pretty goodanswer.
So, anyway.
Um, so so so Chris, let's gotalk about the same with you
know leadership andorganizational change and and
(15:43):
how does HubTech, and I don'twant this to really be a
promotion hub tech, but but butthat's where you are.
And and how does HubTech helpits clients navigate not just
the tech, but also the peopleside of this adoption?
What what do you guys do forthat?
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
So it's you know, again, it's important to
understand you know the do's anddon'ts.
Um the adoption piece is a it'sa journey.
Um, you know, it it's all aboutmaking sure there's a lot of
open dialogue uh with the endusers, understanding business
cases, and you know, AI willtouch every single, eventually
(16:22):
touch every single businessprocess that any given company
has.
Uh, whether folks want tobelieve that or not, that's the
reality of what we're dealingwith today.
Um but you know, Carrie hadbrought up proof of concepts,
you know, emerging technologies,things like that.
It's tough to stay on top ofthings.
(16:42):
There are always new toolscoming out, but prioritizing
what you want to approach firstis very, very important.
You know, there could be some,you know, having a you know a
business analysis done where youcan identify where we can
leverage AI to get moreefficiency.
(17:04):
You know, can we use it forforms, you know, form creation
or training or you know,whatever the case may be, call
center.
Um, you know, these are allspecific use cases that could
impact any business's bottomline.
So the the business itself needsto understand how it operates
(17:25):
and where they're gonna achievethe most bang for the buck.
SPEAKER_03 (17:28):
So you're gonna spend time with CEOs or and and
Kerry's side with the the city,and you're gonna maybe help them
try to figure out how toleverage AI.
Is that what you're saying?
What how they get to get how doyou they're gonna get bang for
their buck?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um we would we would go in, we would interview you
know key stakeholders, and youknow, we need to understand
where the pain points are.
So, you know, understandingwhere those pain points lie and
how we can, you know, and thisis aside from AI, this is a a
conversation that I have withbusinesses all the time.
You know, understanding painpoints, aligning them with
(18:05):
technology, you know, that's thename of the game.
That's how you're gonnamaximize, you know, your spend,
your strategy, you know,everything across the board.
And you know, you're gonna, youknow, it comes down to having a
strategy, having goals andmilestones in place.
And, you know, if you reallystick to the plan and ensure
(18:27):
that, you know, as Carrie hadalluded to, you know, the
training, the communication, youknow, all those kind of soft
skill pieces are crucial, verycrucial.
SPEAKER_05 (18:39):
But I also think we're just at a we're at an
interesting, oh sorry, I I wasjust gonna say we're at an
interesting time whereinnovations are just happening
so frequently.
So you want to be ahead of thelatest and greatest, you know.
You you kind of want to knowwhat the new trend is so that
you can stay at least informed,you know, and right I think in
(19:00):
in our bureaucracy it'schallenging because you have
people who've been doing thingsthe same way for 40-50 years,
you know what I mean?
They're like, don't comeinterrupting my process, this
thing works, you know.
But if you can leverage you knowAI to help them be a little bit
more efficient or save a littlebit of time, then I think we're
we're checking that box.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yep.
And I think that's where youknow there's a challenge there,
right?
You know, you had mentioned theum, you know, some folks are
kind of set in their ways, youknow.
You have uh C levels andbusiness owners, they've been
operating at a certain capacityfor a long time and they've been
successful doing it, you know.
And you have somebody, you know,like Hub or another company
coming in for an AI readinesskind of assessment, and they're
(19:41):
like, We're fine, we don'treally need anything, we're
we're doing just fine.
It's um quantifying the returnon investment and you know what
kind of efficiency gains they'regonna get, which will ultimately
impact their bottom line.
You know, you you kind of needto talk at their, you know, what
(20:02):
speaks to them.
You know, if you go into speedsand feeds and things like that,
you're not going to get acrossto that level of person.
So you kind of need to adjust,you know, know your audience,
adjust your, you know, it's notyour pitch, but your approach,
because different types of uhroles will speak different types
of languages.
(20:22):
You know, if you speak technicalto a C level, you're going to
glaze them over very quickly.
So you know being able to getthrough to them and you know
speak their language, understanduh you know, where the
challenges lie and how to bridgethe gaps and leverage the
technology and the AI to helpthem out is the name of the
(20:44):
game.
SPEAKER_03 (20:45):
And do you guys like Carrie, do you have like guard
guardrails or like does an alarmgo off if somebody's doing
something wrong with the tools?
You know, maybe they're tryingto find personal stuff or doing
something that you know is ano-no like it do you have a way
that you get alerted so I I I Ipersonally don't I'm not certain
(21:09):
our cyber security team isdefinitely on top of that.
SPEAKER_05 (21:12):
They definitely make sure we're using the right
tools.
We we have a list that we'redeveloping and constantly
revisiting to make sure thatfolks are getting access to
tools that they need and want.
I think one of the things thatthat Chris mentioned earlier
that helps kind of make it apackage deal is that cyber
awareness.
So um here in the city we we'vereally been pushing these like
quarterly cyber awarenesstrainings um which in the
(21:34):
beginning seems so excessive butwhen you when you're pushing a
fishing campaign you're gettingtext messages like is this
legit?
Right, right you know you'regetting across to them so when
you supplement you know the AItools in in the opportunities to
to for efficiency um I thinkthat that just kind of helps
tell the story better.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Helps make things better for all I also feel as
though you know making thattraining fun is important.
You know it's I I run a I run aprogram here and I run programs
for a lot of different companiesand I find the most success when
I can make the training fun andeasily digestible that way you
can cast a wide net you knowit's um it it's tough.
(22:18):
So you like game of people don'twant to do a lot of people don't
want to do the trainingespecially in a union in a
unionized shop you know inparticular you know they don't
want to take time out of theirday to to do it.
SPEAKER_05 (22:28):
So um and and and when you do these AI assessments
Chris um are you you are youfirst checking all the
cybersecurity stuff as is thatpart of it to make sure
essentially you know we would wewould need to understand you
know the um the tools thatthey're leveraging in the
environment uh what kind ofmonitoring and auditing they
(22:51):
have in place and potentiallyyou know provide recommendations
for tweaking monitoring andauditing and alerting and you
know that way you can kind ofget a grip on okay you know if
somebody does use a tool thatisn't sanctioned you know it
will create a ticket or an alertsomebody would know they can get
(23:14):
spoken to whatever um again thisis all new to everybody and
we're all just trying to figureit you know we're figuring this
out together um it's not amatter of slapping somebody on
the wrist you know for for thefun of it it's it's we all need
to understand you know to yourpoint Adam the the guardrails
(23:35):
you know the space we can playin you know the the safe space
and then another fun thing forus in this in the schools you
know we a few of us have visiteda few of the high schools and
they're like oh AI no thank youyou know but when you when you
show them the you know the howto use it to check your coding
and that sort of thing it theyrealize like oh there is
(23:56):
additional value here that Ididn't think about it's it's
more than an LLM tool you knowthere's so many more things we
can do if we were exposed tothem if we knew about them.
So I think that sometimes ourteam serves as a IT liaison to
the rest of the the thedepartments here to help them
kind of see what else is outthere.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
And and it's funny because you know the the these
AI tools depending on howcreative you are and how how you
dive into it um and figure outyou know it it's really
interesting like uh we weleverage Microsoft Copilot quite
a bit in our environment and Ican start a chat with with AI
(24:38):
and it will provide me theactuan go deeper here do you do
you want to you know evaluatethis do you want to look at this
and you know in many cases I'mI'm at you know at night I'm at
at home just kind of you knowbanging away going to the note
it's like two in the morning youknow and I didn't even think
(25:01):
that that time went by it justit took me on this journey that
I didn't even think I could goon.
You know it and it's it's reallyinteresting.
You know that it's it it alldepends on the on the user and
how creative they want to be butit's very powerful the use cases
are endless and the power ofthis tool is is immense.
SPEAKER_05 (25:21):
So are there are there any concerns that your
that your customers or clientshave flagged for you that that
kind of stand out as things thatyou start to trend towards or or
redirect them about so in mystrategic business reviews I I
will ask flat out you know verytransparently um hey you know
what's your plan for introducingAI into your environment where
(25:44):
are you on the journey and youknow do you have any questions
or pain points right now?
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
Have you started you know your end user training and
getting the word out have youbeen getting any uh feedback and
how how have you been respondingto it and those challenges
around the feedback um you knowit's keeping an open mind and
keeping open dialogue is goingto be essential to you know any
(26:12):
successful implementation of AIso so um it who's who's ahead of
you who in accepting AI and andtrying to adopt AI is it public
sector or commercial who's aheadof the curve so I think
everybody's trying to adopt itand I think I would if I thought
(26:40):
about it I would have to sayprivate sector is probably ahead
of public sector due to due tobudgetary and due to um the
desire to be bleeding edge.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
So you know the the public sector is gonna I feel
will have a slower adoption ratehowever personally I feel as
though slow and steady is what'sgoing to win the race in you
know in this instance you knowdiving in I I've read a lot
(27:17):
about you know companies thatare have gone in headfirst and
now they're starting to toreally revert back to how they
did things before because theythey went in too quick and they
didn't you know really take timeto understand the journey and
they didn't have a well thoughtout strategy and they didn't
cover the bases and and thingslike that.
(27:37):
So it's it's an evolvingtechnology and it will it does
change from day to day um it'sgonna get better uh more
powerful and you know right nowyou know there's another
technology that's right on theon the tail of AI and that's
called quantum computing andthat's gonna bring us to a whole
(27:59):
nother place.
So this AI is the tip of theiceberg.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
So that's another episode that's great Chris.
So so Carrie with the city ofBoston and the cities in general
the bigger cities do theycommunicate with each other and
share ideas?
Like do you do you say in acompetitive way and just a
sharing knowledge way do youguys communicate and say who's
doing what and maybe we shoulddo it that way.
SPEAKER_05 (28:22):
That's a cool idea do you guys hang together
absolutely absolutely so our CIOum Santiago Garcia has been one
of the leaders one of the firstpolicies um created was drafted
um under his penmanship um andit got distributed and picked up
almost I think internationallyat this point so I think we were
proud to be one of the first tokind of get something in writing
(28:43):
but we we've been backing up bydoing those surveys and
evaluating the use cases andmaking sure that we're
supporting our workforce and intheir needs.
But from there you know we'repart of peer city review groups
we're part of the um theMassachusetts the the EOS team
in in the state along with thecity had a uh a resource group
(29:04):
under the the leadership of thegovernor and our chief was uh
was a member of thatorganization so you know we were
we're definitely early adoptersand we continue to like push the
needle um but we also are pacingit in a way because we're like
got to keep a mind out forpricing and seeing how the
prices can fluctuate veryquickly so we're I think it
makes us that much moreintentional because we're using
(29:24):
um taxpayer dollars to to do thework.
Yeah and is there some kind ofis there some kind of ranking
though for like cities likewho's the most technologically
advanced like is there somethinglike that that exists like um
like the the the college pollsor something so there's there's
the um so we part we participatein gov tech has a digital city
(29:46):
survey um for this okay for twoyears in a row we we we came in
sixth place um of large citiesof 500 000 above so and we we're
ranking below like LA and SanDiego and that sort of thing um
but we're on the list we're onthe map so yeah no that's good
it's but LA LA was up there Icould see San Diego but I would
(30:07):
think like San Francisco orsomething would be up at the top
it was maybe maybe it was thecounty maybe they they claim the
county I I can't remember thebreakdown I just I know that
we're further down there inLincoln than we'd like to find
out where Miami date is becauseI think we're we're at the
bottom uh but anyway Chris Imight have stepped on you what
were you no no worries yeah Imean Carrie I was when we spoke
(30:28):
on the panel together um at theMass Digital Government Summit I
was so thrilled to hear how faralong um all of you folks from
the Commonwealth are on your AIjourney and you know you're
you're really doing a fantasticjob and you're you're really
leaps and bounds ahead of many.
So great job we appreciate thatyeah we I think it's just the
(30:50):
partnerships you know it's it'sfolks opening their door their
doors and their their GitHubsets and us returning the favor
so we're able to do more withless um you know we're I feel
like we're a scrappy bunch we'reforced to be because there's
there's only but so many of usto do a lot of things all at
once.
So we have to look at ourfriends and our neighbors and
and figure out what tools we canenable to to do more.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Life's all about relationships, right?
SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
Absolutely and and going back to the employees like
so you got a bunch of employeesthat are on the computer every
day and then you got kind ofthis more non-technical staff
that you know so how how do youget them up to speed do you
train them is it hard are theydifficult to work with like
they're just like now all of asudden you want them to do
(31:36):
something technological maybe Idon't know I I mean I think at
this point most folks arealready on the path there you
know whether they're in thefield and they're using tablets
or mobile devices um you know somaking sure that when we're
evaluating those tools they'reable to be offered the the AI
tools that can help their work.
SPEAKER_05 (31:54):
You know again if we can if we can look at 100% of
someone's workload and tacklethat like at least 20% of that
and make it a little bit betterfor them, that's that's the
goal.
So and it's not always easyespecially as folks are are kind
of stuck in their ways or or mayhave challenging embracing
embracing technology we're alsomaking sure we're creating the
systems that can support it andcreate redundancies and whatever
(32:16):
else is necessary down the line.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
And and um and going back to the business side of
things you know when we we'retalking about like businesses
versus public sector when AIstarted to become a thing I
guess you saw these monstercompanies embracing it quickly
and integrating it intoeverything whether it's their
chatbots or it's Amazon is likeeverything is AI now in
(32:41):
internally or for the tools thatthey give their partners to use
and I was thinking like oh theseguys with a lot of money are
going to crush everybody elseand become much more efficient
and blah blah blah but I stillthink that small medium
businesses could could compete.
I mean and what's your thoughtsbecause I I don't think they
(33:03):
were fast at the bat but Idefinitely think they could
compete.
So what what's your thoughtsChris on that?
Because I'd love them to be ableto catch up to these beamuths.
SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
Well what's what's happening is you know AI is
essentially leveling the playingfield as far as you know in the
past you'd have somebody likeyou know myself or Carrie that's
been in the industry for quitequite some time right um folks
that learn how to use thesetools effectively and
(33:32):
efficiently will be able toskill up very quick and be able
to compete with folks that havebeen in the industry like us um
you know at a very quick rapidrate.
So you know it's everybodyacross the board is going to
have to reskill at some point toyou know take them to another
(33:52):
place.
It's it's really you know thefolks that have you know these
these all these acronyms afterthe name and you know the
education and this that and theother you know you have somebody
coming out of school and ifthey're creative with how
they're leveraging AI I meanthey could leave these people
that have these big educationsin the dust um it's it's really
(34:14):
interesting and a lot of thesesmall companies you know you're
seeing a lot of these startupsbecome very successful quickly
and you know folks are you knowthese young kids are able to
stand up a business in days youknow that's so go to market is
is very rapid.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
How do the SMBs decide what AI tool they and the
and and the cities like how doyou decide like for the big
picture tools like chat GTPCopilot you got Gemini I guess
is Google like like um I thinkElon's got his own thing I don't
even know what it is and and sohow what how do you what do you
(34:54):
pick?
Because there's more coming upevery day.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Well I I think a good starting point is you need
to understand what your coreenvironment is running on.
You know you have some shopsthat are Microsoft you have some
that are Google um you know itall depends on the situation.
You know it's putting the righttool that fits the best in your
environment you know if you canstay within your ecosystem
(35:18):
that's where you want to be thatway you're not moving things
from one platform to anotherit's going to stay nice and
tight.
You know it's at Hub we use uhyou know we're a 365 shop and we
use copilot so copilot shouldwin though but I still thought
more people use chat so chat gptis huge um but again it's a it's
(35:41):
a kind of a a newer player andchat GPT's collaboration suite I
mean it's I don't even I don'tknow if it even holds a candle
to you know what Google orMicrosoft would even offer.
SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
It seems like everybody's a Microsoft shop.
I mean Kerry do you guys useGoogle or are you more Microsoft
Shop?
SPEAKER_05 (36:03):
Yeah we're we're we're a Google shop here so we
use Gemini heavily okay and thenbut we also we're also like
developing our own tools thatcan sometimes Jim and I might
not give us the response we needso we might run it through Cloud
or we might run it through youknow Anthropic or something
else.
So it's really interesting to toknow what's out there, explore
(36:23):
what's out there.
And another thing that I wasthinking from your your question
Adam is you know I went to a toa conference and one of the
tools that was being developedfor another city was um cyber
security tools for smallbusinesses.
So you might not be able toafford a uh a security team and
in in that sort of thing.
So if you can leverage AI tomonitor your your systems and
(36:44):
support you in that way that'sthat's one of the things that
we're starting to see trend.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
Yeah we I see that quite a bit at the conferences
uh I see more and more uhstartups popping up with these
very innovative uh platformsthat are end-to-end security um
you know as opposed to all rightwe have these 12 solutions you
know that that work welltogether any company is going to
(37:09):
want to buy one solution itsimplifies billing it just makes
it easier to support so thereit's not a stack of different
things they're gonna get oneright but Adam to to answer your
question right uh so open aichat GPT that stuff is typically
it's integrated into a lot ofthese platforms already so you
(37:30):
know Google leverages itMicrosoft leverages it you know
it's and you know there are alot of other LLMs out there that
are designed for specific thingsyou know for image creation for
content authoring for you knowthe it it just you know to
carry's point some things do youknow do that analysis better
(37:51):
than others cool so reallyreally good stuff um but we're
gonna kind of start coming tothe end here and wrapping it up
but I definitely want to makesure we cover some ground with
kind of advice so first let'slet's talk about employees so
Carrie and then Chris like ifyou could leave employees with
(38:13):
one message about ai right nowwhat what would it be?
SPEAKER_05 (38:16):
And then Chris you can hit it after that my message
is typically especially for ITfolks bring bring others on the
journey with you you know um asyou're learning you you might
not realize how simple or howchallenging it is for someone
else so so so bring someonealong with you help them
understand what it is you'redoing demystify it a little bit
(38:38):
take um help help themunderstand what prompt
engineering is let themunderstand what rag augmentation
is there there's just so manythings to to learn and it's it's
fairly easy with someone to kindof help guide you along the way
so don't be afraid to helpsomeone out and bring someone on
the journey with you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
And Chris my bit my message would be embrace the
opportunity you have presentedin front of you today.
I'd spoken about you know thekind of level setting the
playing field um AI is going toallow a lot of folks to have
open doors that they wouldn'thave previously so they need to
(39:19):
approach it with an open mindand you know get as get as
educated as you can around itand you know it it's just a
matter of starting off small andyou know digging it you know
it's not you can't you kind ofneed to like anything else
you're not gonna be an expertright out of the gate but as you
(39:41):
play with it and understand itmore and get more creative with
it the outcomes are going to befantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (39:49):
Cool well thanks for that and then since I've been
asking all the questions I'dlove for you guys just to maybe
riff a little bit on just youknow what what would be your
closing thoughts on AI, AI andsecurity, employees,
organization.
You you pick it.
Why don't you try to close outwith something that um I I left
(40:11):
out.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I feel the you know we really didn't touch upon uh
governance.
I think that's a big uh humanpiece that will not go away.
There is a lot of bias um thatthe LLMs build out and it's the
human that will be responsiblefor keeping that bias in check
(40:37):
and to ensure you know ensuringthat you know you're adhering to
certain regulatory you knowrequirements where necessary or
you know is the data accurate umyou know those types of things
are going to be crucial uhmoving forward you know these
are you're saying you're sayingAI is biased like it it has a
(40:58):
left or a right or somethingyeah it'll start to build its
own opinions on things based onall the information that it's
provided so the more it's gonnait's the more static that's out
there the more these things aregoing to get confused.
It's have you ever seen themovie um iRobot I I've heard
(41:18):
about it I'm not allowed towatch yeah essentially the you
know these AI engines are gonnaget very powerful very quickly
uh given all the informationthat they're provided and
they're gonna start to you knowcome to conclusions on their own
um almost you know thinking likea human does but you know if
(41:40):
they have certain biases andthings like that that's gonna
sway how they react and how theyrespond to certain prompts you
know the the prompt engineeringis you know essential to getting
you know good clean um well toget if you can craft a good
prompt then you should get whatyou're looking for fairly
(42:03):
quickly you will however have toreview the output because you
know it's AI is just likeWikipedia you know it's like
garbage in garbage out you knowthere's no governing body of all
right this is the de facto theseare all facts that are that are
coming back at you from AI.
Um you know I I leverage it fora lot of content authoring and
(42:26):
you know I can probably get 70%of the way with AI but I need to
put in that 30% to get it to thefinish line.
And I absolutely need to reviewthe output of what AI has
provided me.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yeah so that's a good point the governance um I
haven't thought of that becauseI didn't even realize that um it
might think a way you you youmight not be thinking or right
have a view on things that youdon't actually agree it might
sway your you know your howyou're thinking about something
crazy and and Carrie you're likewhat what did we miss that we
(43:04):
should have covered okay yeah II would agree I would agree with
that for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (43:20):
I think that in the city you know we're trying to
create guardrails like like umAdam mentioned making sure that
the tools that we're exploringand we're using are kind of
crafted to to be safe spaces butagain do do your own research do
your homework understand thethings beyond what we're able to
share and show you um you knowin the beginning there was so
much talk about theenvironmental impact of of AI
(43:42):
tools but you know we we didsome research and we see how it
compares to you know regularsearches or you know vehicles
and other things like that.
So you know I think the longerthese tools are here and they're
they're growing it's it'sopportunities to for us to learn
and adapt and you know creatingthat learner's mindset is always
a healthy tool to carry in yourtool belt because it just helps
(44:02):
you be become conscious of theway you're approaching things um
beyond just AI it's just youknow the cyber awareness and and
the consciousness of of just youknow exploring tools for your
for your own use cases but justmaking sure you're putting the
right information and you're notputting in certain information
to protect yourself and youryour your information and your
family.
SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
And um and don't take it as a gospel you're
saying prove proof this stuff.
Absolutely okay that that'sgreat great great stuff so so
with that we're gonna wrap itup.
I mean we could talk about thisall day but uh we should
definitely do something onquantum in the future but um I
really really appreciate youguys um joining us today we have
(44:43):
two incredible experts with usand let's just keep the
conversation going and keep AIgrowing.
SPEAKER_00 (44:49):
Thanks for tuning in to the Beyond the Firewall
podcast powered by HubTech.
If you found this conversationuseful follow or subscribe
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