May 9, 2025 • 54 mins
Hollywood in the early 1920's was reeling from a string of recent scandals. The last thing they needed was the murder of a well respected, and well liked director. But, in 1922, that's exactly what happened. Join us as we look at the famous cast of characters, and possible suspects, in this unsolved Hollywood mystery.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, join us as we delve into our favorite
dark tales and paranormal mysteries.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Venture with us beyond the safe places that exist in daylight.
As we go Beyond the Shadows, true crime, paranormal hauntings, UFOs,
cryptids and unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories, past lives, reincarnation and
all the like are just.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
A few of the topics that we will tackle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If it haunts your fucking dreams, then it will be
on our show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Do you know what the most fighting in the world is.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
On the shuttles where you found me, yet you can't
see me in the deepest blacks when your heart starbus
and then you see their cracks, all these creepy things
that you why at track for the defense be where
the actions at. So list enough you want it, UFOs,
all the ghosts. We got everything that you want.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It won't do you know what the most thing in
the world is?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Hey everyone, welcome back to episode on Beyond the Shadows.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Welcome back Shadow Family. So first thing, you're gonna have
a bonus episode dropping this Tuesday, that's the thirteenth, and
that will be available only to the Spreaker Supporters Club.
This Tuesday. You can only listen to that on Spreaker.
So if you want, anybody wants to join that, it's
a Spreaker supporters club. Somebody that can't afford it, doesn't
(01:33):
want to join. Whatever, we get that. It will be
out next Tuesday, Yeah, on our regular format.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And there should be a link in the bio for it,
So in the show notes, you go down there and
you'll be able to find the link for it if
you're interested, and if not, you can just wait a
week and you get it. With everybody else.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We're toying with our format, but we think that's the
way we're going to do it going forward.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, a lot of our bonus episodes will go on
there first, So.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Kind of a thank you to those, Yeah supporters club member.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Absolutely we appreciate. Yeah, we definitely appreciate you guys. And
we got a couple of new ratings over on Spotify.
We really appreciate those, and Little Quiet on Apple. But
if you guys, if you guys have not had the
opportunity and if you could jump on rate us and
review us on Apple on Spotify, the five star rating
(02:19):
and a review goes so far to get us out
there to other people help us grow.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So now that we know how to how and where
to view them all from.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, now that we them all. Yeah, we're sorry about that.
That sucks because we mentioned all these people, and these
people who give had given us good reviews and ratings
we didn't even see at all.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, we fired our tech guy. Yeah, he done a
big scandal. He was he was ninety seven and he
was doing our mixing on like a Nintendo twenty six
hundred or Atari twenty Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, we don't have much staff left. We're down
to oh, just us, that's right. So what you got
in the news today, palal.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So, we get a police officer in spring Field Township, Ohio.
He initiates a traffic stop this past Monday when he
observed a car whose registered owner had an active warrant
as well as a suspended license. So he was able
to take fifty five year old Victoria Vidal into custody
without incident. When he returned to her car, there was
a new suspect in the driver's seat. A raccoon named
(03:21):
Chewy was now in her seat and he had a
meth pipe in his mom It wasn't in his hand.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
They got a picture of him sitting in the.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
In the meth out of his gourg. He basically knocks
out his mom.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
The one thing she did legally is the raccoon was
owned legally. I didn't know you could own a raccoon
as a pet, but she does.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I did know someone that had one when we when
we were younger. They had a found it in the
middle of the road. It was a baby. He was
just left in the middle road and picked it up.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I've always heard their mean little funkers.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
He made a lot of noise, but uh, they're adorable there.
I know they washed their food, so they got the
hands in the scent. They'll turn on the faucet and
the sink and wash their hands in the sink.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I wonder if you washed the math pipe, you're gonna
get the shit clean. Mom's a dirty girl. So when
they so, they see Chewy with the meth pipe, so
obviously they search the car. So when they do that,
they find a bulk amount of myth. They don't see
what that is, but I'm assuming that.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Large sounds larger. I don't know what country a bulk
comes from. Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So they found that crack cocaine and three more glass
meth pipes. So in addition to the active warrant, she
was charged with f three possession of drugs, three counts
possession of drug paraphernalia, as well as driving under a
suspended license.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What about endangering poor poor u Chu.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We didn't catch any charges. He was the one with
a pipe and she was scott free. He's the one
with a problem. She was just holding for it. Police
in Lice, a small town in Turkey, recently decided they
needed to destroy the tens of tons of marijuana they
had seized, and their infinite wisdom, they decided the best
(05:15):
place to do that would be to hold a bonfire
right in the middle of the town square.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This seems like a right out of a movie script. Yeah, yeah,
it really does.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
This is so incredibly stupid on their part. So for
five days the whole town was baked out of their minds.
People were not able to leave their houses open their windows,
and many parents complained about their kids getting sick and
being needed saken to the hospital. So kids were actually
going to the hospital over this. The town still smells
(05:46):
like weed today. That burning was like three weeks ago,
and they're still saying it freaks like weed.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Now, oh, I can only imagine how much was it?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Twenty five So the total month they destroyed doesn't say
how many. It just says tens of tons. But the
total mile the street value is too hundred and sixty
one million dollars worth of weed.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Holy shit, that's some serious weed.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Wow. Didn't they spell it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So they they didn't just burn at the town square.
They spelled out the name of the town lice with
the weed, then lit it on fire, so it looked
cool from above.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think they had a little bit of it before
they live it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
We're gonna make the whole town sicke. It needs a
look badass, some flair. Unreal. So a man in Florida
recently got married three times. Henry Betsy Junior is facing
felony charges of bigamy for being married to three different
women at the exact same time I was married once.
(06:45):
It was brutal. Would you go out of your way
to do it?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
How much fucking work is that?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, not just to be married three times, but to
try to keep those fucking lives separate.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And he did for a while. So Henry met first
wife Tanya on Tinder and they married in Jacksonville in
November twenty fourth, twenty twenty. He then met Brandy on
stir and they got married on February twenty second, twenty
twenty two, at the Mandatee County Courthouse. He then met
Michelle on match dot Com and they married in Hernando
(07:17):
County on November twenty third of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
There's some serious slacking going on. Someone's not looking at something.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So he deliberately picked three different counties. But you'd still
think with today's technology, it would be a quick clique
and they would see that he's married or not married whatever. Somehow,
in Florida they didn't catch on. He only got caught
when wife number one, Tanya, got suspicious and she did
a actual county by county surge of his name, and
that's how she found out the other two wives. So
then they all connected, and it turns out when she
(07:44):
was doing her research, he also found him with an
account on Bubble and.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
His next wife he was looking for a wife number four.
You know, he didn't call anybody by their name. Everybody
was babe.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh yeah, he's gonna get confused. Absolutely. You certainly don't
reference where you met.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Or you marry the woman just with the same name.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I just met you on the innerweb. You what. Lastly,
we have hally LeFave from Lexington, Kentucky. So she was
making breakfast recently when unbeknownst to her, her eight year
old son hopped on her phone where she was still
logged onto Amazon. She didn't realize what he had done
(08:24):
until seventy thousand lollipops arrived at her house and her
credit card had been hit for forty two hundred dollars.
You know it was those tiny little shit goes to
the dumb dumbs, those one.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
The worst ones of all his friend's day.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Give those up for free at the bank man. Amazon
told her the order could be canceled if she rejected
the delivery, but nobody ever knocked on the door to
do the delivery. They just dropped it off. So she
had already missed that window, so she was stuck for it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Oh wow, So for.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The next twenty years, that kid's getting dump dumps from
Chris dumb Dumpster's birthday break dumb Dumpster A fucking graduation.
Impressing is allowance? Sure do some chores. I'll give you
five dumb.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Everyone they everyone they know is getting fucking dumb dumbs.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So she did get stuck with it. But then when
the story get out and it went viral, all of
a sudden, Amazon's like, no, no, no, no, we'll give you
money back now that you look bad. She did get
a refund, but it was only when they looked bad.
Companies don't like that shit, right, negative press.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
All right, pal, well, so what you got for us
this week?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So we're gonna do a old school murder mystery from
no nice old Hollywood. So we're gonna call this one
rust on the Golden Age Nice.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I like it, all right, guys, we'll catch over there.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Do you know what the world is?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
In nineteen twenty two, Hollywood was reeling from several recent scandals,
the most notorious being the rape and death of act
Virginia Rap the previous year at a party. It was
a crime the comedian and silent film star Roscoe Fatty
Arbuckle was arrested and tried for three separate times. The
last thing the big movie studios wanted or needed right
(10:15):
now was another major scandal. But that is exactly what
they were about to get. But first, let's introduce the
major players in this one.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Hold on before you do that. You said he was
tried three times.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He was acquitted. Yes, he was tried for the same crime.
I didn't think they could if the hung jury or
a mistrial.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh really, oh shit, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He was eventually acquitted, but his career was destroyed. A
lot of careers were destroyed, and Hollywood was reeling. Ticket
sales in nineteen twenty two were down dramatically from the scandal. Okay,
first we have William Desmond Taylor. He was born William
(10:55):
Cunningham Dean Tanner in Carlo, Ireland, on April twenty six,
mix eighteen seventy two. After emigrating to the United States,
he first worked as a gold miner in Alaska, then
worked other various jobs before finally becoming an actor in
New York. In nineteen oh one, he married Ethel May Harrison,
and two years later, their daughter, Ethel Daisy Dean Tanner
(11:18):
was born. He was trying to support his family during
this period and continue his career as an actor, all
while working at an antiques shop financed by his father
in law. In nineteen oh eight, when his daughter was
only five years old, he left work to go to
lunch and never came back. So he was a real
stand up dude.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes nice.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
By nineteen twelve, he was in California and began working
as an actor. Taylor had a younger brother named Dennis
Dean Taylor, who followed in his older brother's footsteps in
more ways than one. First he worked in the antiques business,
Then he moved to Hollywood and began working for his brother.
Then he too a banded his wife and two kids
(12:01):
in nineteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Just unreal how people would just walk away back then.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
That's such a disgusting move, like such a it's such
a sissy move. You know, at least have the balls
to tell somebody where you're going. It's still an asshole move.
But just leaving an ether.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Like we said a million times back then, you can
move five miles down the road and start a new life.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
You could, but you're leaving them on the hook. They
don't even know if you're dead. All that I think
is it did somewhere in a river somewhere, and you're
living your good life on the other coast. It's such
an asshole move. So William Taylor enlisted in the Canadian
Expeditionary Force during World War One. After the war, he
resumed his career in the motion picture industry, becoming a
(12:41):
well liked and respected director. Mabel Norman was born in
eighteen ninety three and was a big star of the
silent film era, although her name's largely forgotten today. In
nineteen sixteen, she even started her own production company, Mabel
Norman Studios. I mean, that's a big deal in nineteen
sixteen for a woman to on her own production Yeah, definitely.
(13:02):
She was a very big deal in Hollywood at this time.
She was the first person, in an era full of
pie throwing and women tied to railroad tracks in cinema
to do either. You see those old movies where the
women are tired of the book. She was the first distress.
She introduced both of those things. She starred in twelve
films with Charlie Chaplin and is one of the people
(13:22):
responsible for his ultimate celebrity. His early film work was
not well received, but Norman helped stand by him and
see to it that he succeeded. She also starred in
seventeen successful films with Fatty Arbuckle, but she was also
badly hurt by his later arrest in for rape and murder.
The backlash led to anything that featured him to be
(13:44):
blacklisted and generally destroyed, which meant a large part of
her film catalog disappeared as well.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, you don't think about the the collateral damage that happens,
which absolutely it's happening right now with like Blake Lively.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You hear a lot And it's funny. When I was
doing the story, what you just said is the parallels.
A lot of you think this stuff is new, and
then I'm doing the story, I'm like, man, a lot
of the stuff going on in Hollywood is not new.
It's been going on.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Hollywood's an evil, fucking place.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's real. Evil comes out of that fucking.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Place, absolutely, and it always has apparently. So Norman was
a longtime friend and possibly more of William Desmond Taylor.
They got together frequently, and by nineteen twenty two, Taylor
was said to be trying to help her shed a
nasty cocaine addiction.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
All the way back then, they're still already into the koke.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Absolutely. Margaret Gibson was a popular actress in Hollywood's Golden Age,
largely starring in westerns. She starred in four films with
William Desmond Taylor early in his career before his transition
into directing. There isn't much to suggest that they stayed
in contact after nineteen fourteen, but Gibson would later disagree
(14:54):
with this assessment. In nineteen seventeen, she was arrested for vagrancy, prostitution,
and drug dealing. The trial was largely attended. This was
like a big media circus back then, of course, big
name actress, mostly by young women who looked up to
the actress. She was acquitted, but after such a public scandal,
work dried up. She continued trying to act under a
(15:17):
variety of aliases, the most notable one being Patricia Palmer.
The name changed full few however, she was frequently recognized
for who she was and roles proved hard to come
by after this. Mary Miles Minter is by far our
youngest player in the scandal, at the age of only
nineteen when everything went down. She was born Juliette Riley
(15:40):
on April twenty fifth, nineteen oh two, in Shreveport, Louisiana,
the younger of two daughters to Lily Pearl Myers. She
was forced to tag along to an early acting audition
for her older sister when no babysitter was available, and
it was she who was noticed by the director. In time,
she would fire out shine both her sister and her
(16:01):
mother's careers.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You know how many different people that have become the
actors because they were tagging along. Yeah, at something like
that happened with I just I just saw this. I
want to say it was Drew barrymore Well.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I think when we did the Cursed movies, I think
the little girl Heather o Rourke from Poltergeist was one
of them. She wasn't I don't think she was auditioning.
She was just spotted at like a amusement park or something
something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think a lot of careers have probably started that
way though.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah. The people that weren't intending are the ones that
ended up.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, probably because they're not trying so hard, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
She was noted for both her talent and visual appeal,
and she got lots of early work. In nineteen twelve,
why appearing in a play in Chicago, her mother, who
was now calling her herself Charlotte Shelby, found it necessary
to skirt the nation's child labor laws. She obtained the
birth certificate of her older sister's deceased child, and Juliette
(17:04):
Riley became Mary Miles Minter. She quickly became a star
in Hollywood, first emulating and then later rivaling Mary Pickford.
She crossed paths with William Desmond Taylor in nineteen nineteen
when she appeared in a film he directed, Anne of
Green Gables. The film was well received and Taylor was
impressed by the young actress. He actively promoted her career.
(17:28):
Their relationship from this point is hazy, and the answer
depends largely on who was being asked. Mentor believes they
were in a romantic relationship for quite some time and
she was very much in love with him. She would
state that he began to curtail the romantic aspect of
their relationship due to her youth and their thirty year
(17:48):
age gap. She was seventeen, he was forty seven. Others
insist that there was never a romantic or sexual relationship
between the two and that her crush was unrequited. Those
people would insist that any relationship they had existed only
in her mind. Mary's mother was known to control the
careers of both of her daughters with an iron fist.
(18:11):
Her own acting career had quickly fizzled out, and she
now tried to maintain any sense of glory by living
through her daughters. She was possessive and controlling with both girls,
and they resented her greatly. Mary and Shelby fought frequently.
When she was only fifteen, Mary entered into a sexual
relationship with a married forty two year old director, James
(18:33):
Kirkwood Junior. They were said to have been secretly quote married,
but their relationship ended when Mary became pregnant and her
mother forced her to have an abortion. Shelby threatened Kirkwood
with her thirty eight pistol for what he had done.
On another occasion, she was said to have caught Mary
kissing one of her co stars, and she threatened him
(18:53):
too with the same pistol.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
A lot of scandal going on in Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yes, lastly, let's meet Edward Sands. Sands had been employed
as Taylor's valet and cook. He was said to have
been born in Ohio, but he spoke with a distinct
English accent. When Taylor went on vacation in nineteen twenty one,
he left Sands in charge of his affairs at home.
When Taylor returned, Sands was gone, and so was Taylor's car,
(19:21):
check book, jewelry, and a large supply of expensive cigarettes.
Sands had cashed several sign checks Taylor had left behind,
and then he began forging his signature on others. Months later,
Taylor received a letter from Sands, and it included a
pawn ticket in the name of William Dean Tanner. So
(19:41):
somehow Sands had discovered Taylor's real identity, one that he
had tried very hard to bury. What would Holly would
think of their nice guy director if it was learned
that he had abandoned a wife and daughter fourteen years earlier.
The pawns had occurred in northern California, but no trace
of Sands was found beyond that. The only concrete thing
(20:03):
investigators found on Edward Sands was that he enlisted in
various branches of the US military using several different names.
Seven enlistments in total, what the last one being the
US Coast Guard, from which he deserted.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Well, he deserted all of them. If he was in any.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well, yeah, he was enlisting under his own name, fake names,
all basically all branches. He would just ditched, then do something.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Else, but take off.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Other than that, there's almost no record this guy even existed.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
That's crazy to think you're in the military and just
fucking walk away one day.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Meanness personified. Carl Panzram did that too, He enlisted multiple times.
Would just walk away, come back under another name, do
it again.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's unreal.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
February first, nineteen twenty two was a cold day in
Los Angeles. Mabel Norman was at the house of her
old friend William Desmond Taylor. Taryl lived in the swanky
MacArthur Park neighborhood inside the Alvarado Court apartment complex. The
neighborhood contained eight two unit bungalows situated in a U
shape and around a central courtyard. Taylor's bungalow was four
(21:11):
oh four B. Despite the country being in the period
of prohibition, The two were enjoying orange blossom gin cocktails.
They had an in depth discussion on both Freud and Nietzschee,
as well as their favorite films. Mabel would later recall
that it was about seven forty five PM that Taylor
walked her down to her car, leaving the door to
(21:33):
his Alvarado Street bungalow, both unlocked and wide open. Mabel
recalled that as chauffeur drove them away, she and Taylor
blew kisses to one another. She was the last person
to see Taylor alive other than his murderer. Taylor went
back into his apartment and closed the door. At about
eight pm, neighbors heard what they described as a car backfiring.
(21:57):
A neighbor, Faith MacLean went over to her window and
saw what she described as a man wearing a long
coat and a plaid cap pulled way down. Her husband
was an actres so MacLean was familiar with both costumes
and theatrics, and she believed that the person she saw
was wearing a poor theatrical disguise as well as movie makeup.
(22:18):
When the man saw her looking, he walked back into
Tailor's house as though he had forgotten something. She thought
that the man was quote funny looking and had an
effeminate walk. Those are her words, so I already know
it is.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It was, Scott. I walked like a bitch.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You're probably old enough to have done it right. When
she was asked much later during ran jury testimony if
she was positive the person she saw was a man.
She responded that she was not. Another neighbor looked out
her window to hearing the car backfire. Hazel Gillen also
(23:04):
saw a person, but she could offer almost no detail,
simply saying that she had seen a dark figure. The
police were not summoned at this point, as no one
even knew that a crime had occurred. A car backfiring
was not a cause to summon the police. It wasn't
until seven point thirty the next morning that new valet
Henry Peavey arrived at the bungalow and went inside.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You know, you don't really think about that, but cars
backfired all the time back then. You don't hear cars
backfire for shit, no more.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
But I get it. You hear a loud sound, you
go look out the window, you see somebody walking out
of the house like you have no reason to call
the cops at this point. You do not allowed noise.
You don't know you're at a gunshot. You don't know anything.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Shit, I mean around here, you hear a gunshot, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Just normal gun range right up the road.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I live right in front of a gun range. I
don't even notice the noise. Anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
The one in my neighborhood too, but I don't know
exactly where it is, but I hear like machine gun
fire all the time. Where the fuck is that? It's
close by but not super close by.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
But the one here is not even a half mile
down the road.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, it's like right up there.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, welcome to me and guys. Me and Ryan lived
like five miles apart, and there's two gun rings.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So yeah, if the cops were like, did you hear
a gunfire?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah? All day? When did I not hear a gunfire?
I can narrow it down way easier.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That way, I'm gonna have backtracked. So seven point thirty
the next morning, New Valet Henry Peavey arrived at the
bungalow and he goes inside, so at this point he
handles it like a total champ. He finds Taylor lying
motionless on the living room floor, and he just runs
out into the courtyard, just screaming at the.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Top of his lung.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Because that was his response.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Everybody's an actor, though, yeah, no, everybody wasn't, no, but
I mean, yeah, that what most that neighborhood was neighbors
Verne Dumas and Neil Harrington from apartment four oh eight
A came over to investigate the screaming while still in
their bathrobes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Actor Douglas McLean So his wife was the one who
saw in the last night and thought it might be
a female. He also came over to investigate. Very suspiciously.
The first call placed was not to the authorities, but
rather to the movie studio representatives from famous players Laski.
Later Paramount Studios showed up and they took charge of
(25:24):
the scene.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, every time you've done the story that's happened in Hollywood,
it was always those places that get called first. It
was always the studio. They call the studio and not
the police, like Disney get in here and clean the
ship up. It's exactly what it is, got their own
cleanup crew that comes in and cleans that shit up.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
They're much worried, much more worried about reputation than actually
finding a solving a crime.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
R Yeah. Absolutely, And it seems like they're on it
faster than the police are.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They are, and they're they're scarily efficient, something like they'ming,
you know, we're involved. So they removed anything that might
prove to be scandalous. They seized all handwritten correspondents that
they could find. They missed some letters that Taylor had
hidden inside his writing boots. However, they also removed all
(26:14):
bootleg liquor. As this was prohibition, all liquor was bootleg, and,
according to some reports, illegal drugs as well. Nude photographs
and numerous articles of lingerie were also said to be removed.
The movie execs instructed Peevi to thoroughly clean the apartment
and remove all blood. It was Taylor's landlord who finally
(26:36):
phoned the police, a full twelve hours after the body
was found Jesus. They were initially told that Taylor may
have died from natural causes. When Lieutenant Tom Ziegler examined
the scene, he quickly realized that this was not the case,
But by now the scene had been seriously compromised. Taylor
lie in a pool of blood on the living room floor.
(26:59):
The bungalow was filled with studio execs, actors, and actresses,
all going through the dead man's things and destroying any evidence.
One thing that both the police and the other witnesses
noticed was that the apparent apartment looked incredibly clean. No
struggle of any sort appeared. To have taken place. Nothing
(27:19):
was out of place. Taylor's body was noted to be
almost impossibly tidy, no wrinkles on his clothing, and not
a single hair out of place. It almost looked as
though he had willingly laid down, smooth, smoothed out his clothing,
combed his hair, and then just died too.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Wow. Talk about cleaning the scene.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah. Ziegler called a doctor to the scene who did
an incredibly quick inspection of the body. He determined that
Tailor had died from a stomach hemorrhage, and then quickly
left the scene. There is a rumor that this quote doctor,
if that is what he was, was never seen or
earned from. Again. The guy showed up. It was a hemorrhage.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Suicide.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Ye, whatever you need to hear.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You got shot in the head fourteen times. It was
a suicide, and then bounces.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Andy disposed of the gun before so studio ahead. Charles
Eaton seemed to be quite pleased with the doctor's inept
findings of stomach problem rather than a shooting. When Douglas
MacLean wondered aloud if it was perhaps a gunshot that
he and his wife had heard the previous night, instead
of a car backfiring. Eaton became visibly annoyed and uncomfortable.
(28:28):
It was only when the coroner arrived that anyone bothered
to roll the body over, and MacLean was proved correct.
Taylor had been shot once in the back. It was
only now that the police could be certain that they
even had a crime scene, and crucial evidence had been
destroyed and removed. Robbery did not appear to be the motive,
as nothing of note appeared to be missing. Taylor had
(28:51):
seventy eight dollars in his pocket, which was no small
sum in nineteen twenty two that's about fifteen hundred dollars
in today's money. He also had an expensive walk which
was still on his wrist, as well as a two
carrot diamond ring on his finger. Suspiciously, though, Taylor was
alleged to have shown his accountant a large wad of
cash only the day before, and this was now nowhere
(29:11):
to be found. The back door of the bungalow was
still locked, and all windows were closed and locked as well.
The coroner was able to determine that he was murdered
with a thirty eight caliber pistol and that the shooter
likely stood only about five feet tall, or if it
was someone taller than that, they had been crouching. Police
(29:33):
quickly questioned Mabel Norman, who didn't deny having been with
Taylor the previous night. She had arrived at about seven pm,
picked up some books, had a drink or two, and
left at about seven forty five. According to her account.
Rumor was that she was madly in love with Taylor,
but he was reluctant to be more than just friends.
(29:53):
Police never considered her an official suspect, but valet Henry
Peavey certainly did. Newspapers and public remained suspicious of her,
with papers writing stories about her drug use and loose morals.
Mabel told police that during her visit with Taylor of
the night of his death, he had expressed to her
concerns over his valet, Henry Peavey. Taylor had reportedly recently
(30:17):
had to bail his valet out of jail for soliciting
young men. Police doubted Norman herself was responsible for the murder,
but they wondered if she was indirectly involved. She was
spending thirty thousand dollars a month on cocaine in today's dollars,
oh that's still Ah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's going to be like, how much is that back? Then?
That's like a mini.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Taylor was widely known to be trying to get drugs
out of the movie industry, and was reported to have
tried to hand her dealers over to police. Could his
murder have been a revenge plot? According to some reports,
when police arrived, they found Mabel going through Taylor's things
trying to find compromising photos of herself. That's just after
(31:00):
the fact rumor. But to me, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
If she was looking for photos of herself and the
police show up, the only way they would know that
is if she fucking told them that. Yeah, she isn't
gonna say, oh, photos, I'm trying to destroy evidence. I'm
just looking for those nude photos of myself. She ain't
gonna tell him that. So that's why I think that's
a made up after the fact thing.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I can't get over how much fucking coke that was that?
Good God.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Police considered former valet Edward Sands to be a very
strong suspect. It was wondered if he was the stranger
seen outside the bungalow of the night of the murder,
but the descriptions were so vague it's impossible to say
they needed to speak to him in order to determine
if he was their man. They were never able to
find him. He was known to have quit his job
in Northern California only the day after the murder. He
(31:49):
then promptly disappeared in the history and he was never
seen again, maybe.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
The next victim.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It was widely suspected at the time that perhaps Taylor's
younger brother Dnnis had actually been masquerading as butler Edward Sands. Suspiciously,
after Edward Sands disappeared, so did Dennis, also never to
be seen again. It's difficult to entirely discount this theory,
but known photos of the two and known handwriting samples
(32:17):
don't match up. I don't know why they both disappeared,
but it's very unlikely they were the same guy.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Unless it was part of the cover up.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I mean, well, there's definitely a cover up. It's just
a matter who did it.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And bury him in the desert, you know, very.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Shady story overall everywhere. So after looking into the old butler,
police decided to look into the new one. He was
the one who found the body and for over twelve hours,
never did think to call the police. He was recently
arrested for solicitation and was known to be very eccentric,
wearing gaudy golfer outfits around town, even though he had
(32:55):
never golfed a single time in his life. Police determined
that while he may handled the discovery of the body poorly,
he had not been involved. He was able to offer
police very little in the way of useful information. However,
some reporters for a couple of newspapers under the umbrella
of William Randolph Hurst believed that he was withholding information, so,
(33:17):
in an extremely strange plot to extract information, they kidnapped
him a few weeks after the murder. He was brought
to the cemetery where Taylor had been buried and confronted
with a man under a sheet pretending to be Taylor's ghost,
the specter. The specter pointed and boomed, you murdered me,
confess PV. Unfortunately for the actor playing the ghost, he
(33:44):
had only seen Taylor in Silent era of films and
didn't realize he spoke with a British accent. The ghost
spoke gangster.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
PV.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
He was not fooled he was not spooked, and he
did not confess strange coincidence. The man under the sheet
was Chicago gangster Albert Weinshank, who would die seven years
later in the infamous Saint Valentine's Day Mess. Oh no shit,
you covered that one small world, Small world. He played
a ghost in Another life. Isn't that funny? Though silent
(34:21):
era movies. He doesn't realize he's seen him in movies.
He doesn't you have heard his voice. He doesn't realize
that he's got a British accent and he speaks Chicago gangster.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But nowadays, how many times have you seen an actor
and then find out later that they were British?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh yeah, they're good at you know.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Oh he's from Australia. I had no fucking idea. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely. The letters that the studio had failed to find
in Taylor's bungalow were written by Mary Miles Minter. This
brought her to the attention of the police. Mintor's conflicting
statements about the nature of their relationship did not help matters.
At times, she would state that her love for a
Tale was unrequited, and in others they were deeply in love,
(35:03):
and the feelings went both ways. There are rumors that
the lingerie found in Taylor's bungalow had belonged to Minter,
though that was never substantiated and Mintor denied this. It
was known that Mentor would frequently show up at Taylor's
house in the middle of the night, but whether this
was done on his invitation or not isn't known. After
her mother and her grandmother had gone to sleep, she
(35:24):
would slip out of the house to go see Taylor.
Three blonde hairs were found on his coat after his death,
and they were determined to be hers. She admitted she
had seen him the day of his death, but it
was from two passing cars and they had simply waved
one another. In another version, they parked their cars and
get out for a quick chat before saying goodbye with
(35:45):
a hug. It has long been speculated that Mintor may
have visited Taylor the night of his death, after the
departure of Mabel normand, perhaps with her mother's thirty eight,
perhaps to threaten him with suicide if he didn't return
her affection. This is something she was known to have
tried at least once when arguing with her mother.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So he was shot with a thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
He was shot with a thirty seth and her mother
had a thirty eight. Give me my way or I'll
kill myself. That's what she would say to her mother,
So perhaps she brought the gun along to murder him
if he didn't give in. These are all just theories.
We know her mother's got the thirty eight, she's not
scared to use it. She's now threatened three different people
with their gunw So, for some inexplicable reason, police never
(36:29):
even considered Mary's mother a suspect. Charlotte was known to
own a thirty eight and had proven she was not
afraid to use it. She'd threatened at least two potential
suitors to her daughter, as well as threatening Taylor on
at least two separate occasions with her gun. She had
showed up at his house once as well as his
office on another occasion. Neither time was Mary present. What's
(36:51):
important is that whether or not Mary and Taylor were
actually having a sexual relationship or not, Shelby certainly believed
that they were, and she was not a big fan
of Tailor's. Her alibi on the night of the murders
that she was with actor carl Stockdale in an unsubstantiated report,
Stockdale began receiving payments of two hundred dollars a month
(37:12):
from Shelby after she provided him with an alibi, and
that these payments continued until his death in nineteen fifty three.
That's thirty one years of payments. That's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's a lot of cash.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
When it became widely known in the press years later
that the revolver that had killed Taylor fired unusual bullets
and that Shelby also owned such bullets, she tossed her
gun and the ammunition into the Louisiana Bayou. She could
provide no sensical reason for having done this. Charlotte Shelby
was also known to be a close friend of District
(37:48):
Attorney Thomas Lee Woolwine, which is always a great way
to dodge a conviction mm hm. He is believed by
some historians to have destroyed crucial evidence in the case
to protect Shelby. Multiple times, detectives said that they felt
they were getting close to breaking the case, only to
(38:09):
be told to quote back off, or that they were
barking up the wrong tree. Years after Shelby tossed the
possible murder weapon into the bayou. It was found by police,
who inexplicably lost it again. After wool Wine left office,
Shelby spent almost twenty years in Europe to avoid both
(38:29):
his successors and the curious press. She was never charged
with any crime and connection of this case. The least
likely of the players that I introduced earlier to have
been the killer would seem to be actress Margaret Gibson.
Aside from having done some movies together early in their careers,
there was no evidence that Taylor and Gibson had any
(38:51):
contact after nineteen fourteen. Her name never showed up at
any point during the investigation of Taylor's murder. No one
mentioned her, suggested her, or even thought of her. However,
less than two years later, she was arrested on federal
felony charges for being part of a nationwide blackmail and
extortion ring. The charges were eventually dropped and she went
(39:14):
on with her life. However, years later, in nineteen sixty four,
she suffered a heart attack. She had recently converted to
Roman Catholicism, and believing she was about to die, she
requested a priest before confessing to the nineteen twenty two
murder of William Desmond Taylor. By nineteen forty, all of
(39:34):
the files on the case of on Taylor's murder had disappeared,
so it's impossible to confirm or dismiss her confession.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
A lot that's stuff disappearing in this case.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think at the files this time, I think they
deliberately we're not going to find anybody. They just destroyed
them after Night two. That's only eighteen years after the murder.
They just got rid of them. So there's nothing left
on the case now to even compared to But she's
confessing now in nineteen sixty four, so we're talking forty
two years after the murder. We can say she definitely
(40:04):
lived in Los Angeles in nineteen twenty two, and we
do know that she was a blackmailer. There have long
been reports that not only was Taylor hiding his real identity,
but also the fact that he was gay. In today's world,
no one would care, but nineteen twenty two, Hollywood was
much different. Oh, the truth would have ended him. Did Sands?
(40:26):
So remember his valet, Sands knows who he is. He
leaked that in his letters. So did Sands leak these
secrets to Margaret Gibson and her fellow blackmailers. Is that
why Taylor had that large wad of cash on him
the day before he died? Is that why he had
been acting strangely in the weeks leading up to his death.
(40:46):
Mary Minter had told a friend that Taylor had become
quote ince insane and that he had been quote making
delusional statements. Gibson had also confessed to the murder to
a friend after watching a TV segment on the murder,
only a few days before her heart attack. There is
no concrete evidence to tie her to the murder, and
(41:07):
she died on October twenty first, nineteen sixty four. Henry
Peavey this is the valet who found the body. He
left Los Angeles shortly after the murder, moved to San Francisco.
In nineteen thirty he was admitted to nap Estate Hospital
with late stage syphilis, where he died on December twenty seventh,
nineteen thirty one. Mabel Norman managed to escape the tailor
(41:31):
scandal without charges, only to find herself in the middle
of another one only two years later. In January nineteen
twenty four, she was in the Hollywood apartment of millionaire
Courtland s Dines along with actress Edna Purviance, and the
three of them were having drinks. Norman chauffeur Joe Kelly,
(41:52):
also known as Horace H. Greer, had been sent off
on an errand but returned unexpectedly. When he entered the apartment,
Dines attempted to strike him in the glass bottle for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
All right, I'm gonna sound stupid here, but what's a valet? Then?
I keep thinking the butler in the valet.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Is the same thing they basically are. Yeah right, yeah,
but a valet is like a personal servant, a servant cook,
that type of thing about her basically. Okay, yeah, I
don't know why her chauffeur has two different names either,
but he does so anyway, her chauffeur returns. Dines, the millionaire,
for some reason, attempts to strike him with a glass bottle.
(42:32):
I don't know why. Kelly, the chauffeur shoots Dimes with
a gun that belongs to Mabel Norman. Diane survives, and
Kelly went to trial for the shooting, but the fact
that everyone present that night was drunk made a difficult prosecution.
Kelly was acquitted, but the Court of Public opinion had
strongly turned against Mabel Norman. She'd involved in two huge
(42:55):
scandals in just two years, and her career was over.
She died of tarberkeis in nineteen thirty Charlotte Shelby had
a difficult relationship with her two daughters, and the years
after the scandal, she was predeceased by daughter Margaret from
an alcohol related illness in nineteen thirty nine. She and
Mary eventually reconciled years later, and Charlotte died at Mary's
(43:19):
house in nineteen fifty seven. Mary had her sister disinterned
and cremated, along with that of her mother, and she
had their ashes scattered. Mary Miles Mintor herself was basically
done in Hollywood after the scandal. People had seen her
as youthful and innocent, and that image was shattered in
the wake of the scandal. She didn't seem too heartbroken
(43:40):
to leave acting behind, however, as she sat on several occasions,
she never enjoyed it anyway. In nineteen twenty five, she
sued her mother for having mismanaged her money, and they
settled out of court in nineteen twenty seven. Their relationship
remained rocky over the years. Mary hated the suspicion that
followed her around for years and demanded that I either
(44:00):
be prosecuted or exonerated, neither. Whatever happened, she invested the
money from her acting career and lived a comfortable life.
She married in nineteen fifty seven, although she would continue
to refer to Taylor as her mate for the rest
of her life. She had always publicly doubted her mother
had any involvement in Taylor's murder, but she would later
(44:22):
tell director King Vadoor, my mother killed everything I ever loved.
M suspicious.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Mary died of a stroke in nineteen eighty two at
the age of eighty four. The Alvarado Court apartments were
bulldozed in the nineteen fifties, so the murder site no
longer exists today. There was a parking lot where the
bungalow once stood, So we'll never know for sure who
killed William Desmond Taylor. But this is what I think.
Mabel Norman didn't do it. She had almost no motive
(44:53):
and she did not have the time. She left Taylor's
house at seven forty five pm that night with her
chauffeur as the witness. The neighbors heard the shots were
the car backfiring at eight pm. So there's no chance
she got back to his house in fifteen minutes and
murdered him. There's just and she didn't have There was
just no motive on her ends she didn't do it.
Mary Miles Mentor was unlikely to have done it if
(45:16):
she was trying to pull her a little suicide threat scheme.
That means she was already inside the bungalow when Mabel
Norman arrived. It would also mean that she came to
Taylor's house already wearing a diskuise and makeup like the
person the witnesses saw. If that was the case, then
she wasn't there to get her way. She was simply
there to kill him. And I don't believe that she
(45:37):
was young and obsessed, but I do not think she
was a killer. She was trying to win him over,
not kill him. Margaret Gibson certainly could have done it.
She was involved in criminal activity and she confessed to it.
Still there was no evidence to even put her on
the police's radar or to support her confession. It seems
to me like maybe like one last grasp of fame
(45:57):
before she died. But it is possible that she did. Yeah,
that happens a lot. Like ten different people confessed to
being John Wilkes Booth on their deathbeds, even though he's
supposed to be dead. Like this happens all the time.
It doesn't mean she didn't do it. You can't discount
that she did it. But I still don't think she
was the one. I think Charlotte Shelby, Mary Miles ment
(46:18):
her mother, I think she did it.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
She sounds like the most likely to me.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Also, there is a good chance, although you can't support it,
that Mary really did come to his bungalow that night.
Maybe her mother caught them. She had already warned Taylor
twice and probably decided to take him out. The studio
had removed ninety percent of the evidence already for her
in their desperation to avoid another scandal. She then paid
off her alibi. We know that she probably paid off
(46:45):
her DA friend, and then she later ditched the murder
weapon in the swamp when she realized it could still
be used to nail her. She was probably the strange
looking quote man wearing the makeup and walking in an
effeminate way holes in this series. Well, don't get me wrong, right,
You can't definitively point of.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Fact all of them. It seems the most plausible to me.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
She's the one who has everything. She has the motive,
she had, the ability, she had the gun, she had
the mean streak to do it. She's the one that
checks most of the boxes. She also had the da
friend and for some reason, she started paying her alibi
two hundred dollars a month for the rest of his life.
There's a lot of cats, some serious motive, and she
skipped down to go to Europe for twenty years. You
(47:27):
don't move to Europe for twenty years unless you're avoiding something. Plus,
off the record, her daughter said she thinks she did
it her own daughters. I mean, there's a lot to
check that box for her. I think she did, if
you know, if I had to guess, that's.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
We're going to want to know what you guys think
on this one. I'm going to put a pole up
on Uh. I gotta remember to do this. Yeah, I
gotta put a pole up on the Spotify, so you
guys should go in and vote on who you think.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
We'd love to hear from you guys on that one.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, great story man, Well thanks Buck had a lot
of lot going on. Absolutely Scott's brain is scrambled trying
to keep up with all that.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Hopefully you guys like the too. Let us know what
you think and definitely vote in the poll if you
get a chance.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, and if you get a chance to go over
a rate review, you know, helps a lot. And that's
gonna wrap that story. We're gonna take it to the firepit.
Catch over there all right before we do this fire
(48:25):
pit Just so you know, this episode not this episode,
but there's a bonus episode that comes out Tuesday. If
you want on Supporters Club Spreaker Supporters Club, there'll be
a link in the description show description. And now we
need fire pits. Guys. We are scraping the bottom of
the barrel again. We were doing good for a while there,
(48:46):
but now we are really running low. If you could
get those stories in, it doesn't have to be paranormal,
but it certainly can be anything you'll talk about with
your friends around the firepit. We need those stories. Please
get them into us. We don't want to have to
We're gonna have Ryan be seeing Metallica. Yeah you're going
to regret it, I promise. So no, we need those stories.
(49:09):
Please don't make that happen. So this fire pit comes
to us from Anonymous, and a little background. You should
know that Anonymous was a former police officer, So we
appreciate this story from you, Anonymous, and here we go.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Anyway, one of the stories I wanted to tell you
was about policing, was a murder that I attended.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
My partner.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
There was a folk like a call through I don't
know what you call it there, like through radio or
I don't know how they I guess dispatch. I guess
I think they called it. I guess the same sort
of thing. Anyway, I got my partner and I got
to the job and has been pulled up as a
rural type of property. And as we pulled up, the
(49:58):
lady come walking out towards it was dark, it was
like two three in the morning, shed blood all over her.
She had her hands in the air like it was.
She looked like a zombie. It was so scary. Anyway,
we obviously go and speak to her and she said
she couldn't find her husband, and she'd heard gunshots and
all sorts of stuff. So long story short, we had
(50:20):
to obviously get our firearms out because you know that
she had someone with guns. We don't know who was there,
cleared all the property. We found her husband. He had
been shot, unfortunately in the face, and I said I
was the one that actually found him. And I said
to my obviously going to render first aid in check
bys ligns of life. So I was shining the torch,
(50:43):
you know, looking checking him out, and he was dead.
But I'd said to my partner, like, I can't revive him.
Even I wanted to revive him, I couldn't because he
didn't have a face. So there's a bit of a
horror story for you. Apparently he owed someone millions of
dollars and that's what happens in this old when you
don't pay your debts, I guess. And the other story
(51:03):
that I had for you was I was living in
a suburb, cork Babery, which is in southwest of Sydney.
I was only about twenty I think at the time,
and well I sort of lived there. It was my
boyfriend's house and I would stay there from time to
time and his bedroom was the semi detached garage which
(51:23):
his parents had renovated into like an extra bedroom for
their house. The only downfall which was great, but the
only downfall was that the he had to go outside
into the backyard and then throw another door into the
house if you needed to use the bathroom in the
middle of the night, which I often did, and a
big chicken chit ashead of the dark. So I remember
(51:46):
one night I had to get up and get a bathroom,
and which I did. I went out and then I
came back out to go back into the bedroom. I
don't know what time it was, to be honest, it
was metal of the night, moonshining, nice clear night, and
I heard a noise and I walked through the car
just to check. I could see her car through the
car port, just to check on my car, and then
everything was fine. And then as I walked back to
(52:08):
the bedroom or whatever you want to call it, I
seen a little girl standing there and she was transparent,
like see through though does that make sense, I don't
know what I'm talking about. She looked like what you yes,
you would expect it ghost to look like. So I
remember I told you before, I saw a lady in
the hospital walk past me in the my hospital. Bit
(52:30):
she was full bodied, she looked didn't look like what
you'd expect to ghost to look like but this little
girl did she You could yeah, transparent, you could see
through her but still make out her feature's face everything.
She had a long hair, and she had on like
old time kind of dress, you know, the long dress
of the apron thing over the top. I would say
she was about I'm seven eight years old. She had
(52:54):
red hair, reddish brownish hair. And I remember and I
literally ship myself and I ran like into the bedroom
and I didn't wake up my partner at the time
because I just felt really really crazy. And then the
next day I told him about it, and he said
to me that his sister has seen things in the
(53:17):
house or around the house as well. So yeah, needless
to say, that was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
So all right, so first things first, I love the
accident all day.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Those are also great stories.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Yeah really, uh was a cop we we asked before?
I was wondering if we had any police officers listening
and if they were going to arrest us.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
There's no an investigation in apodible stories.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
But uh, yeah, that story is crazy. I cannot imagine
walking up on a murder, you know what I mean.
I've seen working in the hospital, I've seen people come
in that have been obviously been shot and then end
up dying, so they've been murdered. Yes, but that's in
this I'm in a safe situation, you know what I mean.
And then you see that come in. But can you
imagine just walking up on seeing First off, you'd be
(54:05):
scared for yourself of course, and then just to see
that so gruesome. Ah, man, to mess with your head
big time.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
It was a very personal story. We appreciate you sharing.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
That, yeah, absolutely. And then full body apparition. Man, that's
the holy Grail.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah absolutely, that's the other little.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, that's it right there. Yeah. So yeah, that's fantastic.
I have have you have you seen it?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, So I mean.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Turn back to episodes somewhere between one and last week
out of you just got you know, you'll find it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
You'll find Yeah, that's right. So we appreciate those stories. Guys,
We need yours. Please get them into us and uh
we will catch you guys in the next one.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Later, guys,
Hey, everybody, join us as we delve into our favorite
dark tales and paranormal mysteries.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Venture with us beyond the safe places that exist in daylight.
As we go Beyond the Shadows, true crime, paranormal hauntings, UFOs,
cryptids and unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories, past lives, reincarnation and
all the like are just.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
A few of the topics that we will tackle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If it haunts your fucking dreams, then it will be
on our show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Do you know what the most fighting in the world is.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
On the shuttles where you found me, yet you can't
see me in the deepest blacks when your heart starbus
and then you see their cracks, all these creepy things
that you why at track for the defense be where
the actions at. So list enough you want it, UFOs,
all the ghosts. We got everything that you want.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It won't do you know what the most thing in
the world is?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Hey everyone, welcome back to episode on Beyond the Shadows.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Welcome back Shadow Family. So first thing, you're gonna have
a bonus episode dropping this Tuesday, that's the thirteenth, and
that will be available only to the Spreaker Supporters Club.
This Tuesday. You can only listen to that on Spreaker.
So if you want, anybody wants to join that, it's
a Spreaker supporters club. Somebody that can't afford it, doesn't
(01:33):
want to join. Whatever, we get that. It will be
out next Tuesday, Yeah, on our regular format.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And there should be a link in the bio for it,
So in the show notes, you go down there and
you'll be able to find the link for it if
you're interested, and if not, you can just wait a
week and you get it. With everybody else.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We're toying with our format, but we think that's the
way we're going to do it going forward.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, a lot of our bonus episodes will go on
there first, So.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Kind of a thank you to those, Yeah supporters club member.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Absolutely we appreciate. Yeah, we definitely appreciate you guys. And
we got a couple of new ratings over on Spotify.
We really appreciate those, and Little Quiet on Apple. But
if you guys, if you guys have not had the
opportunity and if you could jump on rate us and
review us on Apple on Spotify, the five star rating
(02:19):
and a review goes so far to get us out
there to other people help us grow.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So now that we know how to how and where
to view them all from.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, now that we them all. Yeah, we're sorry about that.
That sucks because we mentioned all these people, and these
people who give had given us good reviews and ratings
we didn't even see at all.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, we fired our tech guy. Yeah, he done a
big scandal. He was he was ninety seven and he
was doing our mixing on like a Nintendo twenty six
hundred or Atari twenty Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, we don't have much staff left. We're down
to oh, just us, that's right. So what you got
in the news today, palal.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So, we get a police officer in spring Field Township, Ohio.
He initiates a traffic stop this past Monday when he
observed a car whose registered owner had an active warrant
as well as a suspended license. So he was able
to take fifty five year old Victoria Vidal into custody
without incident. When he returned to her car, there was
a new suspect in the driver's seat. A raccoon named
(03:21):
Chewy was now in her seat and he had a
meth pipe in his mom It wasn't in his hand.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
They got a picture of him sitting in the.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
In the meth out of his gourg. He basically knocks
out his mom.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
The one thing she did legally is the raccoon was
owned legally. I didn't know you could own a raccoon
as a pet, but she does.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I did know someone that had one when we when
we were younger. They had a found it in the
middle of the road. It was a baby. He was
just left in the middle road and picked it up.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I've always heard their mean little funkers.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
He made a lot of noise, but uh, they're adorable there.
I know they washed their food, so they got the
hands in the scent. They'll turn on the faucet and
the sink and wash their hands in the sink.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I wonder if you washed the math pipe, you're gonna
get the shit clean. Mom's a dirty girl. So when
they so, they see Chewy with the meth pipe, so
obviously they search the car. So when they do that,
they find a bulk amount of myth. They don't see
what that is, but I'm assuming that.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Large sounds larger. I don't know what country a bulk
comes from. Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So they found that crack cocaine and three more glass
meth pipes. So in addition to the active warrant, she
was charged with f three possession of drugs, three counts
possession of drug paraphernalia, as well as driving under a
suspended license.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What about endangering poor poor u Chu.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We didn't catch any charges. He was the one with
a pipe and she was scott free. He's the one
with a problem. She was just holding for it. Police
in Lice, a small town in Turkey, recently decided they
needed to destroy the tens of tons of marijuana they
had seized, and their infinite wisdom, they decided the best
(05:15):
place to do that would be to hold a bonfire
right in the middle of the town square.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This seems like a right out of a movie script. Yeah, yeah,
it really does.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
This is so incredibly stupid on their part. So for
five days the whole town was baked out of their minds.
People were not able to leave their houses open their windows,
and many parents complained about their kids getting sick and
being needed saken to the hospital. So kids were actually
going to the hospital over this. The town still smells
(05:46):
like weed today. That burning was like three weeks ago,
and they're still saying it freaks like weed.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Now, oh, I can only imagine how much was it?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Twenty five So the total month they destroyed doesn't say
how many. It just says tens of tons. But the
total mile the street value is too hundred and sixty
one million dollars worth of weed.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Holy shit, that's some serious weed.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Wow. Didn't they spell it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So they they didn't just burn at the town square.
They spelled out the name of the town lice with
the weed, then lit it on fire, so it looked
cool from above.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think they had a little bit of it before
they live it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
We're gonna make the whole town sicke. It needs a
look badass, some flair. Unreal. So a man in Florida
recently got married three times. Henry Betsy Junior is facing
felony charges of bigamy for being married to three different
women at the exact same time I was married once.
(06:45):
It was brutal. Would you go out of your way
to do it?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
How much fucking work is that?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, not just to be married three times, but to
try to keep those fucking lives separate.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And he did for a while. So Henry met first
wife Tanya on Tinder and they married in Jacksonville in
November twenty fourth, twenty twenty. He then met Brandy on
stir and they got married on February twenty second, twenty
twenty two, at the Mandatee County Courthouse. He then met
Michelle on match dot Com and they married in Hernando
(07:17):
County on November twenty third of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
There's some serious slacking going on. Someone's not looking at something.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So he deliberately picked three different counties. But you'd still
think with today's technology, it would be a quick clique
and they would see that he's married or not married whatever. Somehow,
in Florida they didn't catch on. He only got caught
when wife number one, Tanya, got suspicious and she did
a actual county by county surge of his name, and
that's how she found out the other two wives. So
then they all connected, and it turns out when she
(07:44):
was doing her research, he also found him with an
account on Bubble and.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
His next wife he was looking for a wife number four.
You know, he didn't call anybody by their name. Everybody
was babe.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh yeah, he's gonna get confused. Absolutely. You certainly don't
reference where you met.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Or you marry the woman just with the same name.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I just met you on the innerweb. You what. Lastly,
we have hally LeFave from Lexington, Kentucky. So she was
making breakfast recently when unbeknownst to her, her eight year
old son hopped on her phone where she was still
logged onto Amazon. She didn't realize what he had done
(08:24):
until seventy thousand lollipops arrived at her house and her
credit card had been hit for forty two hundred dollars.
You know it was those tiny little shit goes to
the dumb dumbs, those one.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
The worst ones of all his friend's day.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Give those up for free at the bank man. Amazon
told her the order could be canceled if she rejected
the delivery, but nobody ever knocked on the door to
do the delivery. They just dropped it off. So she
had already missed that window, so she was stuck for it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Oh wow, So for.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The next twenty years, that kid's getting dump dumps from
Chris dumb Dumpster's birthday break dumb Dumpster A fucking graduation.
Impressing is allowance? Sure do some chores. I'll give you
five dumb.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Everyone they everyone they know is getting fucking dumb dumbs.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So she did get stuck with it. But then when
the story get out and it went viral, all of
a sudden, Amazon's like, no, no, no, no, we'll give you
money back now that you look bad. She did get
a refund, but it was only when they looked bad.
Companies don't like that shit, right, negative press.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
All right, pal, well, so what you got for us
this week?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So we're gonna do a old school murder mystery from
no nice old Hollywood. So we're gonna call this one
rust on the Golden Age Nice.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I like it, all right, guys, we'll catch over there.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Do you know what the world is?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
In nineteen twenty two, Hollywood was reeling from several recent scandals,
the most notorious being the rape and death of act
Virginia Rap the previous year at a party. It was
a crime the comedian and silent film star Roscoe Fatty
Arbuckle was arrested and tried for three separate times. The
last thing the big movie studios wanted or needed right
(10:15):
now was another major scandal. But that is exactly what
they were about to get. But first, let's introduce the
major players in this one.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Hold on before you do that. You said he was
tried three times.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He was acquitted. Yes, he was tried for the same crime.
I didn't think they could if the hung jury or
a mistrial.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh really, oh shit, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He was eventually acquitted, but his career was destroyed. A
lot of careers were destroyed, and Hollywood was reeling. Ticket
sales in nineteen twenty two were down dramatically from the scandal. Okay,
first we have William Desmond Taylor. He was born William
(10:55):
Cunningham Dean Tanner in Carlo, Ireland, on April twenty six,
mix eighteen seventy two. After emigrating to the United States,
he first worked as a gold miner in Alaska, then
worked other various jobs before finally becoming an actor in
New York. In nineteen oh one, he married Ethel May Harrison,
and two years later, their daughter, Ethel Daisy Dean Tanner
(11:18):
was born. He was trying to support his family during
this period and continue his career as an actor, all
while working at an antiques shop financed by his father
in law. In nineteen oh eight, when his daughter was
only five years old, he left work to go to
lunch and never came back. So he was a real
stand up dude.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes nice.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
By nineteen twelve, he was in California and began working
as an actor. Taylor had a younger brother named Dennis
Dean Taylor, who followed in his older brother's footsteps in
more ways than one. First he worked in the antiques business,
Then he moved to Hollywood and began working for his brother.
Then he too a banded his wife and two kids
(12:01):
in nineteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Just unreal how people would just walk away back then.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
That's such a disgusting move, like such a it's such
a sissy move. You know, at least have the balls
to tell somebody where you're going. It's still an asshole move.
But just leaving an ether.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Like we said a million times back then, you can
move five miles down the road and start a new life.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
You could, but you're leaving them on the hook. They
don't even know if you're dead. All that I think
is it did somewhere in a river somewhere, and you're
living your good life on the other coast. It's such
an asshole move. So William Taylor enlisted in the Canadian
Expeditionary Force during World War One. After the war, he
resumed his career in the motion picture industry, becoming a
(12:41):
well liked and respected director. Mabel Norman was born in
eighteen ninety three and was a big star of the
silent film era, although her name's largely forgotten today. In
nineteen sixteen, she even started her own production company, Mabel
Norman Studios. I mean, that's a big deal in nineteen
sixteen for a woman to on her own production Yeah, definitely.
(13:02):
She was a very big deal in Hollywood at this time.
She was the first person, in an era full of
pie throwing and women tied to railroad tracks in cinema
to do either. You see those old movies where the
women are tired of the book. She was the first distress.
She introduced both of those things. She starred in twelve
films with Charlie Chaplin and is one of the people
(13:22):
responsible for his ultimate celebrity. His early film work was
not well received, but Norman helped stand by him and
see to it that he succeeded. She also starred in
seventeen successful films with Fatty Arbuckle, but she was also
badly hurt by his later arrest in for rape and murder.
The backlash led to anything that featured him to be
(13:44):
blacklisted and generally destroyed, which meant a large part of
her film catalog disappeared as well.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, you don't think about the the collateral damage that happens,
which absolutely it's happening right now with like Blake Lively.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You hear a lot And it's funny. When I was
doing the story, what you just said is the parallels.
A lot of you think this stuff is new, and
then I'm doing the story, I'm like, man, a lot
of the stuff going on in Hollywood is not new.
It's been going on.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Hollywood's an evil, fucking place.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's real. Evil comes out of that fucking.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Place, absolutely, and it always has apparently. So Norman was
a longtime friend and possibly more of William Desmond Taylor.
They got together frequently, and by nineteen twenty two, Taylor
was said to be trying to help her shed a
nasty cocaine addiction.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
All the way back then, they're still already into the koke.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Absolutely. Margaret Gibson was a popular actress in Hollywood's Golden Age,
largely starring in westerns. She starred in four films with
William Desmond Taylor early in his career before his transition
into directing. There isn't much to suggest that they stayed
in contact after nineteen fourteen, but Gibson would later disagree
(14:54):
with this assessment. In nineteen seventeen, she was arrested for vagrancy, prostitution,
and drug dealing. The trial was largely attended. This was
like a big media circus back then, of course, big
name actress, mostly by young women who looked up to
the actress. She was acquitted, but after such a public scandal,
work dried up. She continued trying to act under a
(15:17):
variety of aliases, the most notable one being Patricia Palmer.
The name changed full few however, she was frequently recognized
for who she was and roles proved hard to come
by after this. Mary Miles Minter is by far our
youngest player in the scandal, at the age of only
nineteen when everything went down. She was born Juliette Riley
(15:40):
on April twenty fifth, nineteen oh two, in Shreveport, Louisiana,
the younger of two daughters to Lily Pearl Myers. She
was forced to tag along to an early acting audition
for her older sister when no babysitter was available, and
it was she who was noticed by the director. In time,
she would fire out shine both her sister and her
(16:01):
mother's careers.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
You know how many different people that have become the
actors because they were tagging along. Yeah, at something like
that happened with I just I just saw this. I
want to say it was Drew barrymore Well.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I think when we did the Cursed movies, I think
the little girl Heather o Rourke from Poltergeist was one
of them. She wasn't I don't think she was auditioning.
She was just spotted at like a amusement park or something
something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think a lot of careers have probably started that
way though.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah. The people that weren't intending are the ones that
ended up.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, probably because they're not trying so hard, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
She was noted for both her talent and visual appeal,
and she got lots of early work. In nineteen twelve,
why appearing in a play in Chicago, her mother, who
was now calling her herself Charlotte Shelby, found it necessary
to skirt the nation's child labor laws. She obtained the
birth certificate of her older sister's deceased child, and Juliette
(17:04):
Riley became Mary Miles Minter. She quickly became a star
in Hollywood, first emulating and then later rivaling Mary Pickford.
She crossed paths with William Desmond Taylor in nineteen nineteen
when she appeared in a film he directed, Anne of
Green Gables. The film was well received and Taylor was
impressed by the young actress. He actively promoted her career.
(17:28):
Their relationship from this point is hazy, and the answer
depends largely on who was being asked. Mentor believes they
were in a romantic relationship for quite some time and
she was very much in love with him. She would
state that he began to curtail the romantic aspect of
their relationship due to her youth and their thirty year
(17:48):
age gap. She was seventeen, he was forty seven. Others
insist that there was never a romantic or sexual relationship
between the two and that her crush was unrequited. Those
people would insist that any relationship they had existed only
in her mind. Mary's mother was known to control the
careers of both of her daughters with an iron fist.
(18:11):
Her own acting career had quickly fizzled out, and she
now tried to maintain any sense of glory by living
through her daughters. She was possessive and controlling with both girls,
and they resented her greatly. Mary and Shelby fought frequently.
When she was only fifteen, Mary entered into a sexual
relationship with a married forty two year old director, James
(18:33):
Kirkwood Junior. They were said to have been secretly quote married,
but their relationship ended when Mary became pregnant and her
mother forced her to have an abortion. Shelby threatened Kirkwood
with her thirty eight pistol for what he had done.
On another occasion, she was said to have caught Mary
kissing one of her co stars, and she threatened him
(18:53):
too with the same pistol.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
A lot of scandal going on in Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yes, lastly, let's meet Edward Sands. Sands had been employed
as Taylor's valet and cook. He was said to have
been born in Ohio, but he spoke with a distinct
English accent. When Taylor went on vacation in nineteen twenty one,
he left Sands in charge of his affairs at home.
When Taylor returned, Sands was gone, and so was Taylor's car,
(19:21):
check book, jewelry, and a large supply of expensive cigarettes.
Sands had cashed several sign checks Taylor had left behind,
and then he began forging his signature on others. Months later,
Taylor received a letter from Sands, and it included a
pawn ticket in the name of William Dean Tanner. So
(19:41):
somehow Sands had discovered Taylor's real identity, one that he
had tried very hard to bury. What would Holly would
think of their nice guy director if it was learned
that he had abandoned a wife and daughter fourteen years earlier.
The pawns had occurred in northern California, but no trace
of Sands was found beyond that. The only concrete thing
(20:03):
investigators found on Edward Sands was that he enlisted in
various branches of the US military using several different names.
Seven enlistments in total, what the last one being the
US Coast Guard, from which he deserted.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Well, he deserted all of them. If he was in any.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well, yeah, he was enlisting under his own name, fake names,
all basically all branches. He would just ditched, then do something.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Else, but take off.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Other than that, there's almost no record this guy even existed.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
That's crazy to think you're in the military and just
fucking walk away one day.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Meanness personified. Carl Panzram did that too, He enlisted multiple times.
Would just walk away, come back under another name, do
it again.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's unreal.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
February first, nineteen twenty two was a cold day in
Los Angeles. Mabel Norman was at the house of her
old friend William Desmond Taylor. Taryl lived in the swanky
MacArthur Park neighborhood inside the Alvarado Court apartment complex. The
neighborhood contained eight two unit bungalows situated in a U
shape and around a central courtyard. Taylor's bungalow was four
(21:11):
oh four B. Despite the country being in the period
of prohibition, The two were enjoying orange blossom gin cocktails.
They had an in depth discussion on both Freud and Nietzschee,
as well as their favorite films. Mabel would later recall
that it was about seven forty five PM that Taylor
walked her down to her car, leaving the door to
(21:33):
his Alvarado Street bungalow, both unlocked and wide open. Mabel
recalled that as chauffeur drove them away, she and Taylor
blew kisses to one another. She was the last person
to see Taylor alive other than his murderer. Taylor went
back into his apartment and closed the door. At about
eight pm, neighbors heard what they described as a car backfiring.
(21:57):
A neighbor, Faith MacLean went over to her window and
saw what she described as a man wearing a long
coat and a plaid cap pulled way down. Her husband
was an actres so MacLean was familiar with both costumes
and theatrics, and she believed that the person she saw
was wearing a poor theatrical disguise as well as movie makeup.
(22:18):
When the man saw her looking, he walked back into
Tailor's house as though he had forgotten something. She thought
that the man was quote funny looking and had an
effeminate walk. Those are her words, so I already know
it is.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It was, Scott. I walked like a bitch.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You're probably old enough to have done it right. When
she was asked much later during ran jury testimony if
she was positive the person she saw was a man.
She responded that she was not. Another neighbor looked out
her window to hearing the car backfire. Hazel Gillen also
(23:04):
saw a person, but she could offer almost no detail,
simply saying that she had seen a dark figure. The
police were not summoned at this point, as no one
even knew that a crime had occurred. A car backfiring
was not a cause to summon the police. It wasn't
until seven point thirty the next morning that new valet
Henry Peavey arrived at the bungalow and went inside.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You know, you don't really think about that, but cars
backfired all the time back then. You don't hear cars
backfire for shit, no more.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
But I get it. You hear a loud sound, you
go look out the window, you see somebody walking out
of the house like you have no reason to call
the cops at this point. You do not allowed noise.
You don't know you're at a gunshot. You don't know anything.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Shit, I mean around here, you hear a gunshot, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Just normal gun range right up the road.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I live right in front of a gun range. I
don't even notice the noise. Anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
The one in my neighborhood too, but I don't know
exactly where it is, but I hear like machine gun
fire all the time. Where the fuck is that? It's
close by but not super close by.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
But the one here is not even a half mile
down the road.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, it's like right up there.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, welcome to me and guys. Me and Ryan lived
like five miles apart, and there's two gun rings.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So yeah, if the cops were like, did you hear
a gunfire?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah? All day? When did I not hear a gunfire?
I can narrow it down way easier.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That way, I'm gonna have backtracked. So seven point thirty
the next morning, New Valet Henry Peavey arrived at the
bungalow and he goes inside, so at this point he
handles it like a total champ. He finds Taylor lying
motionless on the living room floor, and he just runs
out into the courtyard, just screaming at the.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Top of his lung.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Because that was his response.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Everybody's an actor, though, yeah, no, everybody wasn't, no, but
I mean, yeah, that what most that neighborhood was neighbors
Verne Dumas and Neil Harrington from apartment four oh eight
A came over to investigate the screaming while still in
their bathrobes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Actor Douglas McLean So his wife was the one who
saw in the last night and thought it might be
a female. He also came over to investigate. Very suspiciously.
The first call placed was not to the authorities, but
rather to the movie studio representatives from famous players Laski.
Later Paramount Studios showed up and they took charge of
(25:24):
the scene.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, every time you've done the story that's happened in Hollywood,
it was always those places that get called first. It
was always the studio. They call the studio and not
the police, like Disney get in here and clean the
ship up. It's exactly what it is, got their own
cleanup crew that comes in and cleans that shit up.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
They're much worried, much more worried about reputation than actually
finding a solving a crime.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
R Yeah. Absolutely, And it seems like they're on it
faster than the police are.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They are, and they're they're scarily efficient, something like they'ming,
you know, we're involved. So they removed anything that might
prove to be scandalous. They seized all handwritten correspondents that
they could find. They missed some letters that Taylor had
hidden inside his writing boots. However, they also removed all
(26:14):
bootleg liquor. As this was prohibition, all liquor was bootleg, and,
according to some reports, illegal drugs as well. Nude photographs
and numerous articles of lingerie were also said to be removed.
The movie execs instructed Peevi to thoroughly clean the apartment
and remove all blood. It was Taylor's landlord who finally
(26:36):
phoned the police, a full twelve hours after the body
was found Jesus. They were initially told that Taylor may
have died from natural causes. When Lieutenant Tom Ziegler examined
the scene, he quickly realized that this was not the case,
But by now the scene had been seriously compromised. Taylor
lie in a pool of blood on the living room floor.
(26:59):
The bungalow was filled with studio execs, actors, and actresses,
all going through the dead man's things and destroying any evidence.
One thing that both the police and the other witnesses
noticed was that the apparent apartment looked incredibly clean. No
struggle of any sort appeared. To have taken place. Nothing
(27:19):
was out of place. Taylor's body was noted to be
almost impossibly tidy, no wrinkles on his clothing, and not
a single hair out of place. It almost looked as
though he had willingly laid down, smooth, smoothed out his clothing,
combed his hair, and then just died too.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Wow. Talk about cleaning the scene.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah. Ziegler called a doctor to the scene who did
an incredibly quick inspection of the body. He determined that
Tailor had died from a stomach hemorrhage, and then quickly
left the scene. There is a rumor that this quote doctor,
if that is what he was, was never seen or
earned from. Again. The guy showed up. It was a hemorrhage.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Suicide.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Ye, whatever you need to hear.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You got shot in the head fourteen times. It was
a suicide, and then bounces.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Andy disposed of the gun before so studio ahead. Charles
Eaton seemed to be quite pleased with the doctor's inept
findings of stomach problem rather than a shooting. When Douglas
MacLean wondered aloud if it was perhaps a gunshot that
he and his wife had heard the previous night, instead
of a car backfiring. Eaton became visibly annoyed and uncomfortable.
(28:28):
It was only when the coroner arrived that anyone bothered
to roll the body over, and MacLean was proved correct.
Taylor had been shot once in the back. It was
only now that the police could be certain that they
even had a crime scene, and crucial evidence had been
destroyed and removed. Robbery did not appear to be the motive,
as nothing of note appeared to be missing. Taylor had
(28:51):
seventy eight dollars in his pocket, which was no small
sum in nineteen twenty two that's about fifteen hundred dollars
in today's money. He also had an expensive walk which
was still on his wrist, as well as a two
carrot diamond ring on his finger. Suspiciously, though, Taylor was
alleged to have shown his accountant a large wad of
cash only the day before, and this was now nowhere
(29:11):
to be found. The back door of the bungalow was
still locked, and all windows were closed and locked as well.
The coroner was able to determine that he was murdered
with a thirty eight caliber pistol and that the shooter
likely stood only about five feet tall, or if it
was someone taller than that, they had been crouching. Police
(29:33):
quickly questioned Mabel Norman, who didn't deny having been with
Taylor the previous night. She had arrived at about seven pm,
picked up some books, had a drink or two, and
left at about seven forty five. According to her account.
Rumor was that she was madly in love with Taylor,
but he was reluctant to be more than just friends.
(29:53):
Police never considered her an official suspect, but valet Henry
Peavey certainly did. Newspapers and public remained suspicious of her,
with papers writing stories about her drug use and loose morals.
Mabel told police that during her visit with Taylor of
the night of his death, he had expressed to her
concerns over his valet, Henry Peavey. Taylor had reportedly recently
(30:17):
had to bail his valet out of jail for soliciting
young men. Police doubted Norman herself was responsible for the murder,
but they wondered if she was indirectly involved. She was
spending thirty thousand dollars a month on cocaine in today's dollars,
oh that's still Ah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's going to be like, how much is that back? Then?
That's like a mini.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Taylor was widely known to be trying to get drugs
out of the movie industry, and was reported to have
tried to hand her dealers over to police. Could his
murder have been a revenge plot? According to some reports,
when police arrived, they found Mabel going through Taylor's things
trying to find compromising photos of herself. That's just after
(31:00):
the fact rumor. But to me, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
If she was looking for photos of herself and the
police show up, the only way they would know that
is if she fucking told them that. Yeah, she isn't
gonna say, oh, photos, I'm trying to destroy evidence. I'm
just looking for those nude photos of myself. She ain't
gonna tell him that. So that's why I think that's
a made up after the fact thing.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I can't get over how much fucking coke that was that?
Good God.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Police considered former valet Edward Sands to be a very
strong suspect. It was wondered if he was the stranger
seen outside the bungalow of the night of the murder,
but the descriptions were so vague it's impossible to say
they needed to speak to him in order to determine
if he was their man. They were never able to
find him. He was known to have quit his job
in Northern California only the day after the murder. He
(31:49):
then promptly disappeared in the history and he was never
seen again, maybe.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
The next victim.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It was widely suspected at the time that perhaps Taylor's
younger brother Dnnis had actually been masquerading as butler Edward Sands. Suspiciously,
after Edward Sands disappeared, so did Dennis, also never to
be seen again. It's difficult to entirely discount this theory,
but known photos of the two and known handwriting samples
(32:17):
don't match up. I don't know why they both disappeared,
but it's very unlikely they were the same guy.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Unless it was part of the cover up.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I mean, well, there's definitely a cover up. It's just
a matter who did it.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And bury him in the desert, you know, very.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Shady story overall everywhere. So after looking into the old butler,
police decided to look into the new one. He was
the one who found the body and for over twelve hours,
never did think to call the police. He was recently
arrested for solicitation and was known to be very eccentric,
wearing gaudy golfer outfits around town, even though he had
(32:55):
never golfed a single time in his life. Police determined
that while he may handled the discovery of the body poorly,
he had not been involved. He was able to offer
police very little in the way of useful information. However,
some reporters for a couple of newspapers under the umbrella
of William Randolph Hurst believed that he was withholding information, so,
(33:17):
in an extremely strange plot to extract information, they kidnapped
him a few weeks after the murder. He was brought
to the cemetery where Taylor had been buried and confronted
with a man under a sheet pretending to be Taylor's ghost,
the specter. The specter pointed and boomed, you murdered me,
confess PV. Unfortunately for the actor playing the ghost, he
(33:44):
had only seen Taylor in Silent era of films and
didn't realize he spoke with a British accent. The ghost
spoke gangster.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
PV.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
He was not fooled he was not spooked, and he
did not confess strange coincidence. The man under the sheet
was Chicago gangster Albert Weinshank, who would die seven years
later in the infamous Saint Valentine's Day Mess. Oh no shit,
you covered that one small world, Small world. He played
a ghost in Another life. Isn't that funny? Though silent
(34:21):
era movies. He doesn't realize he's seen him in movies.
He doesn't you have heard his voice. He doesn't realize
that he's got a British accent and he speaks Chicago gangster.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But nowadays, how many times have you seen an actor
and then find out later that they were British?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh yeah, they're good at you know.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Oh he's from Australia. I had no fucking idea. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely. The letters that the studio had failed to find
in Taylor's bungalow were written by Mary Miles Minter. This
brought her to the attention of the police. Mintor's conflicting
statements about the nature of their relationship did not help matters.
At times, she would state that her love for a
Tale was unrequited, and in others they were deeply in love,
(35:03):
and the feelings went both ways. There are rumors that
the lingerie found in Taylor's bungalow had belonged to Minter,
though that was never substantiated and Mintor denied this. It
was known that Mentor would frequently show up at Taylor's
house in the middle of the night, but whether this
was done on his invitation or not isn't known. After
her mother and her grandmother had gone to sleep, she
(35:24):
would slip out of the house to go see Taylor.
Three blonde hairs were found on his coat after his death,
and they were determined to be hers. She admitted she
had seen him the day of his death, but it
was from two passing cars and they had simply waved
one another. In another version, they parked their cars and
get out for a quick chat before saying goodbye with
(35:45):
a hug. It has long been speculated that Mintor may
have visited Taylor the night of his death, after the
departure of Mabel normand, perhaps with her mother's thirty eight,
perhaps to threaten him with suicide if he didn't return
her affection. This is something she was known to have
tried at least once when arguing with her mother.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So he was shot with a thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
He was shot with a thirty seth and her mother
had a thirty eight. Give me my way or I'll
kill myself. That's what she would say to her mother,
So perhaps she brought the gun along to murder him
if he didn't give in. These are all just theories.
We know her mother's got the thirty eight, she's not
scared to use it. She's now threatened three different people
with their gunw So, for some inexplicable reason, police never
(36:29):
even considered Mary's mother a suspect. Charlotte was known to
own a thirty eight and had proven she was not
afraid to use it. She'd threatened at least two potential
suitors to her daughter, as well as threatening Taylor on
at least two separate occasions with her gun. She had
showed up at his house once as well as his
office on another occasion. Neither time was Mary present. What's
(36:51):
important is that whether or not Mary and Taylor were
actually having a sexual relationship or not, Shelby certainly believed
that they were, and she was not a big fan
of Tailor's. Her alibi on the night of the murders
that she was with actor carl Stockdale in an unsubstantiated report,
Stockdale began receiving payments of two hundred dollars a month
(37:12):
from Shelby after she provided him with an alibi, and
that these payments continued until his death in nineteen fifty three.
That's thirty one years of payments. That's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's a lot of cash.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
When it became widely known in the press years later
that the revolver that had killed Taylor fired unusual bullets
and that Shelby also owned such bullets, she tossed her
gun and the ammunition into the Louisiana Bayou. She could
provide no sensical reason for having done this. Charlotte Shelby
was also known to be a close friend of District
(37:48):
Attorney Thomas Lee Woolwine, which is always a great way
to dodge a conviction mm hm. He is believed by
some historians to have destroyed crucial evidence in the case
to protect Shelby. Multiple times, detectives said that they felt
they were getting close to breaking the case, only to
(38:09):
be told to quote back off, or that they were
barking up the wrong tree. Years after Shelby tossed the
possible murder weapon into the bayou. It was found by police,
who inexplicably lost it again. After wool Wine left office,
Shelby spent almost twenty years in Europe to avoid both
(38:29):
his successors and the curious press. She was never charged
with any crime and connection of this case. The least
likely of the players that I introduced earlier to have
been the killer would seem to be actress Margaret Gibson.
Aside from having done some movies together early in their careers,
there was no evidence that Taylor and Gibson had any
(38:51):
contact after nineteen fourteen. Her name never showed up at
any point during the investigation of Taylor's murder. No one
mentioned her, suggested her, or even thought of her. However,
less than two years later, she was arrested on federal
felony charges for being part of a nationwide blackmail and
extortion ring. The charges were eventually dropped and she went
(39:14):
on with her life. However, years later, in nineteen sixty four,
she suffered a heart attack. She had recently converted to
Roman Catholicism, and believing she was about to die, she
requested a priest before confessing to the nineteen twenty two
murder of William Desmond Taylor. By nineteen forty, all of
(39:34):
the files on the case of on Taylor's murder had disappeared,
so it's impossible to confirm or dismiss her confession.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
A lot that's stuff disappearing in this case.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think at the files this time, I think they
deliberately we're not going to find anybody. They just destroyed
them after Night two. That's only eighteen years after the murder.
They just got rid of them. So there's nothing left
on the case now to even compared to But she's
confessing now in nineteen sixty four, so we're talking forty
two years after the murder. We can say she definitely
(40:04):
lived in Los Angeles in nineteen twenty two, and we
do know that she was a blackmailer. There have long
been reports that not only was Taylor hiding his real identity,
but also the fact that he was gay. In today's world,
no one would care, but nineteen twenty two, Hollywood was
much different. Oh, the truth would have ended him. Did Sands?
(40:26):
So remember his valet, Sands knows who he is. He
leaked that in his letters. So did Sands leak these
secrets to Margaret Gibson and her fellow blackmailers. Is that
why Taylor had that large wad of cash on him
the day before he died? Is that why he had
been acting strangely in the weeks leading up to his death.
(40:46):
Mary Minter had told a friend that Taylor had become
quote ince insane and that he had been quote making
delusional statements. Gibson had also confessed to the murder to
a friend after watching a TV segment on the murder,
only a few days before her heart attack. There is
no concrete evidence to tie her to the murder, and
(41:07):
she died on October twenty first, nineteen sixty four. Henry
Peavey this is the valet who found the body. He
left Los Angeles shortly after the murder, moved to San Francisco.
In nineteen thirty he was admitted to nap Estate Hospital
with late stage syphilis, where he died on December twenty seventh,
nineteen thirty one. Mabel Norman managed to escape the tailor
(41:31):
scandal without charges, only to find herself in the middle
of another one only two years later. In January nineteen
twenty four, she was in the Hollywood apartment of millionaire
Courtland s Dines along with actress Edna Purviance, and the
three of them were having drinks. Norman chauffeur Joe Kelly,
(41:52):
also known as Horace H. Greer, had been sent off
on an errand but returned unexpectedly. When he entered the apartment,
Dines attempted to strike him in the glass bottle for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
All right, I'm gonna sound stupid here, but what's a valet? Then?
I keep thinking the butler in the valet.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Is the same thing they basically are. Yeah right, yeah,
but a valet is like a personal servant, a servant cook,
that type of thing about her basically. Okay, yeah, I
don't know why her chauffeur has two different names either,
but he does so anyway, her chauffeur returns. Dines, the millionaire,
for some reason, attempts to strike him with a glass bottle.
(42:32):
I don't know why. Kelly, the chauffeur shoots Dimes with
a gun that belongs to Mabel Norman. Diane survives, and
Kelly went to trial for the shooting, but the fact
that everyone present that night was drunk made a difficult prosecution.
Kelly was acquitted, but the Court of Public opinion had
strongly turned against Mabel Norman. She'd involved in two huge
(42:55):
scandals in just two years, and her career was over.
She died of tarberkeis in nineteen thirty Charlotte Shelby had
a difficult relationship with her two daughters, and the years
after the scandal, she was predeceased by daughter Margaret from
an alcohol related illness in nineteen thirty nine. She and
Mary eventually reconciled years later, and Charlotte died at Mary's
(43:19):
house in nineteen fifty seven. Mary had her sister disinterned
and cremated, along with that of her mother, and she
had their ashes scattered. Mary Miles Mintor herself was basically
done in Hollywood after the scandal. People had seen her
as youthful and innocent, and that image was shattered in
the wake of the scandal. She didn't seem too heartbroken
(43:40):
to leave acting behind, however, as she sat on several occasions,
she never enjoyed it anyway. In nineteen twenty five, she
sued her mother for having mismanaged her money, and they
settled out of court in nineteen twenty seven. Their relationship
remained rocky over the years. Mary hated the suspicion that
followed her around for years and demanded that I either
(44:00):
be prosecuted or exonerated, neither. Whatever happened, she invested the
money from her acting career and lived a comfortable life.
She married in nineteen fifty seven, although she would continue
to refer to Taylor as her mate for the rest
of her life. She had always publicly doubted her mother
had any involvement in Taylor's murder, but she would later
(44:22):
tell director King Vadoor, my mother killed everything I ever loved.
M suspicious.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Mary died of a stroke in nineteen eighty two at
the age of eighty four. The Alvarado Court apartments were
bulldozed in the nineteen fifties, so the murder site no
longer exists today. There was a parking lot where the
bungalow once stood, So we'll never know for sure who
killed William Desmond Taylor. But this is what I think.
Mabel Norman didn't do it. She had almost no motive
(44:53):
and she did not have the time. She left Taylor's
house at seven forty five pm that night with her
chauffeur as the witness. The neighbors heard the shots were
the car backfiring at eight pm. So there's no chance
she got back to his house in fifteen minutes and
murdered him. There's just and she didn't have There was
just no motive on her ends she didn't do it.
Mary Miles Mentor was unlikely to have done it if
(45:16):
she was trying to pull her a little suicide threat scheme.
That means she was already inside the bungalow when Mabel
Norman arrived. It would also mean that she came to
Taylor's house already wearing a diskuise and makeup like the
person the witnesses saw. If that was the case, then
she wasn't there to get her way. She was simply
there to kill him. And I don't believe that she
(45:37):
was young and obsessed, but I do not think she
was a killer. She was trying to win him over,
not kill him. Margaret Gibson certainly could have done it.
She was involved in criminal activity and she confessed to it.
Still there was no evidence to even put her on
the police's radar or to support her confession. It seems
to me like maybe like one last grasp of fame
(45:57):
before she died. But it is possible that she did. Yeah,
that happens a lot. Like ten different people confessed to
being John Wilkes Booth on their deathbeds, even though he's
supposed to be dead. Like this happens all the time.
It doesn't mean she didn't do it. You can't discount
that she did it. But I still don't think she
was the one. I think Charlotte Shelby, Mary Miles ment
(46:18):
her mother, I think she did it.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
She sounds like the most likely to me.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Also, there is a good chance, although you can't support it,
that Mary really did come to his bungalow that night.
Maybe her mother caught them. She had already warned Taylor
twice and probably decided to take him out. The studio
had removed ninety percent of the evidence already for her
in their desperation to avoid another scandal. She then paid
off her alibi. We know that she probably paid off
(46:45):
her DA friend, and then she later ditched the murder
weapon in the swamp when she realized it could still
be used to nail her. She was probably the strange
looking quote man wearing the makeup and walking in an
effeminate way holes in this series. Well, don't get me wrong, right,
You can't definitively point of.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Fact all of them. It seems the most plausible to me.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
She's the one who has everything. She has the motive,
she had, the ability, she had the gun, she had
the mean streak to do it. She's the one that
checks most of the boxes. She also had the da
friend and for some reason, she started paying her alibi
two hundred dollars a month for the rest of his life.
There's a lot of cats, some serious motive, and she
skipped down to go to Europe for twenty years. You
(47:27):
don't move to Europe for twenty years unless you're avoiding something. Plus,
off the record, her daughter said she thinks she did
it her own daughters. I mean, there's a lot to
check that box for her. I think she did, if
you know, if I had to guess, that's.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
We're going to want to know what you guys think
on this one. I'm going to put a pole up
on Uh. I gotta remember to do this. Yeah, I
gotta put a pole up on the Spotify, so you
guys should go in and vote on who you think.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
We'd love to hear from you guys on that one.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, great story man, Well thanks Buck had a lot
of lot going on. Absolutely Scott's brain is scrambled trying
to keep up with all that.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Hopefully you guys like the too. Let us know what
you think and definitely vote in the poll if you
get a chance.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, and if you get a chance to go over
a rate review, you know, helps a lot. And that's
gonna wrap that story. We're gonna take it to the firepit.
Catch over there all right before we do this fire
(48:25):
pit Just so you know, this episode not this episode,
but there's a bonus episode that comes out Tuesday. If
you want on Supporters Club Spreaker Supporters Club, there'll be
a link in the description show description. And now we
need fire pits. Guys. We are scraping the bottom of
the barrel again. We were doing good for a while there,
(48:46):
but now we are really running low. If you could
get those stories in, it doesn't have to be paranormal,
but it certainly can be anything you'll talk about with
your friends around the firepit. We need those stories. Please
get them into us. We don't want to have to
We're gonna have Ryan be seeing Metallica. Yeah you're going
to regret it, I promise. So no, we need those stories.
(49:09):
Please don't make that happen. So this fire pit comes
to us from Anonymous, and a little background. You should
know that Anonymous was a former police officer, So we
appreciate this story from you, Anonymous, and here we go.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Anyway, one of the stories I wanted to tell you
was about policing, was a murder that I attended.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
My partner.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
There was a folk like a call through I don't
know what you call it there, like through radio or
I don't know how they I guess dispatch. I guess
I think they called it. I guess the same sort
of thing. Anyway, I got my partner and I got
to the job and has been pulled up as a
rural type of property. And as we pulled up, the
(49:58):
lady come walking out towards it was dark, it was
like two three in the morning, shed blood all over her.
She had her hands in the air like it was.
She looked like a zombie. It was so scary. Anyway,
we obviously go and speak to her and she said
she couldn't find her husband, and she'd heard gunshots and
all sorts of stuff. So long story short, we had
(50:20):
to obviously get our firearms out because you know that
she had someone with guns. We don't know who was there,
cleared all the property. We found her husband. He had
been shot, unfortunately in the face, and I said I
was the one that actually found him. And I said
to my obviously going to render first aid in check
bys ligns of life. So I was shining the torch,
(50:43):
you know, looking checking him out, and he was dead.
But I'd said to my partner, like, I can't revive him.
Even I wanted to revive him, I couldn't because he
didn't have a face. So there's a bit of a
horror story for you. Apparently he owed someone millions of
dollars and that's what happens in this old when you
don't pay your debts, I guess. And the other story
(51:03):
that I had for you was I was living in
a suburb, cork Babery, which is in southwest of Sydney.
I was only about twenty I think at the time,
and well I sort of lived there. It was my
boyfriend's house and I would stay there from time to
time and his bedroom was the semi detached garage which
(51:23):
his parents had renovated into like an extra bedroom for
their house. The only downfall which was great, but the
only downfall was that the he had to go outside
into the backyard and then throw another door into the
house if you needed to use the bathroom in the
middle of the night, which I often did, and a
big chicken chit ashead of the dark. So I remember
(51:46):
one night I had to get up and get a bathroom,
and which I did. I went out and then I
came back out to go back into the bedroom. I
don't know what time it was, to be honest, it
was metal of the night, moonshining, nice clear night, and
I heard a noise and I walked through the car
just to check. I could see her car through the
car port, just to check on my car, and then
everything was fine. And then as I walked back to
(52:08):
the bedroom or whatever you want to call it, I
seen a little girl standing there and she was transparent,
like see through though does that make sense, I don't
know what I'm talking about. She looked like what you yes,
you would expect it ghost to look like. So I
remember I told you before, I saw a lady in
the hospital walk past me in the my hospital. Bit
(52:30):
she was full bodied, she looked didn't look like what
you'd expect to ghost to look like but this little
girl did she You could yeah, transparent, you could see
through her but still make out her feature's face everything.
She had a long hair, and she had on like
old time kind of dress, you know, the long dress
of the apron thing over the top. I would say
she was about I'm seven eight years old. She had
(52:54):
red hair, reddish brownish hair. And I remember and I
literally ship myself and I ran like into the bedroom
and I didn't wake up my partner at the time
because I just felt really really crazy. And then the
next day I told him about it, and he said
to me that his sister has seen things in the
(53:17):
house or around the house as well. So yeah, needless
to say, that was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
So all right, so first things first, I love the
accident all day.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Those are also great stories.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Yeah really, uh was a cop we we asked before?
I was wondering if we had any police officers listening
and if they were going to arrest us.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
There's no an investigation in apodible stories.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
But uh, yeah, that story is crazy. I cannot imagine
walking up on a murder, you know what I mean.
I've seen working in the hospital, I've seen people come
in that have been obviously been shot and then end
up dying, so they've been murdered. Yes, but that's in
this I'm in a safe situation, you know what I mean.
And then you see that come in. But can you
imagine just walking up on seeing First off, you'd be
(54:05):
scared for yourself of course, and then just to see
that so gruesome. Ah, man, to mess with your head
big time.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
It was a very personal story. We appreciate you sharing.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
That, yeah, absolutely. And then full body apparition. Man, that's
the holy Grail.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah absolutely, that's the other little.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, that's it right there. Yeah. So yeah, that's fantastic.
I have have you have you seen it?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, So I mean.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Turn back to episodes somewhere between one and last week
out of you just got you know, you'll find it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
You'll find Yeah, that's right. So we appreciate those stories. Guys,
We need yours. Please get them into us and uh
we will catch you guys in the next one.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Later, guys,
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