June 20, 2025 • 52 mins
Join us as we look back at 3 unsolved deaths from history that were strongly rumored to have connections to witchcraft and the occult.
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- occult killings
- ritual murder
- satanic cults
- occult crime
- satanic panic
- true crime and the occult
- ritualistic killings
- dark magic murders
- cult sacrifices
- occult conspiracies
- murder for the occult
- black magic crimes
- true crime podcast
- cult-related murders
- paranormal true crime
- killing in the name of the occult
- esoteric crimes
- occult rituals
- secret societies and murder
- dark rituals
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https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beyond-the-shadows--6218555/support Link for commercial free listening
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, join us as we delve into our favorite
dark tales and paranormal mysteries.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Venture with us beyond the safe places that exist in daylight.
As we go Beyond the Shadows, true crime, paranormal hauntings, UFOs,
cryptids and unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories, past lives, reincarnation and
all the like are.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Just a few of the topics that we will tackle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If it haunts your fucking dreams, then it will be
on our show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Do you know what the most in the world is?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
On the shuttles where you found me? Yet you can't
see me in the deepest blacks when your heart starbus
and then you see their cracks, all these creepy things
that you why at track well the demens be where
the actions at. So this enough you want it, UFOs,
all them ghosts. We got everything that you want.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It won't do you know what the thing in the
world is?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Hey, guys, and welcome back to episode one forty five.
It is h one forty five of Beyond the Shadows.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Welcome back Shadow family.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, so we want to first off, we want to
thank everybody for all the condolences and well wishes you guys,
have been incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely, we appreciate that a lot, guys.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, we really do. We've been gone for a couple
of weeks. We did mention we had a death in
the family. Ryan and my aunt had passed away and
we're still still going through. We have the funeral coming
up and everything. But it's been kind of tough. But
we appreciate all of you guys, all the condolences, all
the messages, everything we got, we really appreciate.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Absolutely, very nice.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You guys means a lot, really absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So, Bud, let's just jump right into the news.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
What do we got, all right, So we've all heard
of the dining dash. This week in Detroit, we had
a dump and dash. A man walked into a Forman
Mills store at the corner of eight Mile and Van Dyke.
He went straight to the shoe department, dropped his pants,
dropped a deuce, skipped to the wiping entirely. He just
pulled up his pants and left the store.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
He bounced.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
The store does have a bathroom.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's closed unless you ask for permission, which they will grant.
I guess it's been closed since COVID nineteen, which it
seems ridiculous to me just opened the bathroom.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
This is what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I regardless. This dude never asked for permission. He seemed
like he was on a mission. He went and went
through the door, went straight to the shoe department, and
he comes in with another guy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
He was not even alone.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
The other guy went over to another section of the store,
so it seems like it was like a pre planned event.
This guy drops the deuce, they meet back at the.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Door, leave the store and.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Completely such a no reason. A random crime just comes in,
drops trow and freaking bounces right out the door.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Man.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They got a video surveillance, but as of right now
they don't know who he is. He hasn't been arrested.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
To do some DNA sampling on that turd, man in
a back and paint dress with a black wrap and
a mask was observed shoplifting multiple items in Hollywood, Florida.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This is maybe two weeks ago. I thought the point
of a disguise was supposed to like deflect attention.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, not to bring it clear, not to look fabulous.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Uh so you know I'm gonna go with a dress.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'm wrapped as much attention to myself as I possibly can.
I look hot, Yeah, look at me.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So then the guy, you know, he steals the big
ticket items like candy, soda, frappuccinos, and breaded fried shrimp.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
That was his hall.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's a pretty good at hall. That's a good, good
Friday night that.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
My son would love that. It's like a shopping list
right there.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So the got our first suspect.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
He exits the store publics, where law enforcement then tracks
him down. So his name this is a couple of
weeks ago. His name on the rest report at the
time was listed as John Publics. So I don't know
if that's his real name, if you're lying until.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's he obviously owns that place. It's my dad, I
own this place.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
In fact, he said, yeah, right, he didn't drop a deuce,
so there's that going for him. Well, they didn't give
him a chance, right, He wasn't done yet after he
ate the fried shrimp. Right coming back yet, Man and
woman visited a Jersey Mics in Santa Rosi, Santa Rosa County, Florida.
This is again a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Alright, So not only is Florida real popular, this is
this this area. We keep doing stories on Santa Rosa
Is That's right where I remember. I tell you I
lived there near Agulin Air Force Base. This one keeps
coming up over and over again. So not just Florida,
but this spot in Florida.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
The story again, we can a half two weeks old.
So they go in, they eat in a Jersey mics,
they leave. After they leave, an employee finds a crumpled
note near the bathroom toilet dispenser. The had been handwritten
by the woman and indicated that she was being held
against her will and included a nearby address. Fortunately, the
(05:07):
employee contacted police, who did a welfare check at that address,
where they arrested thirty four year old Jordan Williams. The
unnamed woman was also found at the address with multiple
bruises and broken bones. Williams has a history of domestic
violence and was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, kidnapping,
false imprisonment, imprisonment felony, and misdemeanor battery and battery by strangulation.
(05:33):
The woman was transported to the hospital to be treated
for her injuries. Thank god that employeed and just crumple
no kidding. If I was in the habit of cleaning
a bathroom. I'm probably not looking up the pieces of paper. Yeah,
but you know, you know bathrooms are gross.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
If that was me, I would I wouldn't. I don't
pay attention to the fine details like that. I think
you'd be way more apted realize something like that was
going a lot of times, I'm oblivious to what's going
on around me, but you always paid the deal.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I pay attention to what's going on around me, so
I would. I probably would have noticed the vibe, I mean,
the couple. But if I was cleaning the bathroom, Yeah,
and I find a wadded up piece of paper on
the floor, I don't know if i'd be apt to
open it and read it. You can assume it's so
like nasty. Yeah, absolutely, thank god this person did.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah that. I mean, I've heard of a few things
like that. Like, I guess there's some signs and symbols
that people can do to let you know that they're
in distress, and I don't know that I would catch
hardly any of them. You know, Like I said, a
lot of time, I'm in my own world when I'm
going places, I need to pay better attention.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The Netherlands National Museum recently placed a new item on display.
It's a two hundred year old condom believed to have
been made around eighteen thirty. It's made from a sheep's
appendix and features artwork that includes an image of a
nun and three clergy. It's believed to have been from
a red light district brothel.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's got a nun and three? Is that to stop you?
I know?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Right? Is that to or?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Is that not a whore? What do we just there's
obviously if it's one in one nun three clergy? Who
maybe she.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Was, Yeah, yeah, you're all in the moon.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And then you get a wrap like a sheet pieces over.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Your jump with a picture of a nun on the side.
By the time you're done, you're not just skip it.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I can't do it. The nun was staring at me.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Lastly, we have police in South Carolina. They recently began
pursuit on an excavator on a highway in North Charleston
as it blew through an intersection. They had already taken
notice of the construction vehicle when the call came in
from a local business that had just been burglarized and
heavily damaged. The pursuit lasted for over an hour and
reached blazing speeds of three miles per hour.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It was prison.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The chase ended when the driver entered the Charleston County
Fairgrounds and got himself stuck.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know, this one reminds me of Killdozer. Yeah, remember
that one the guy had taken. He turned a bulldozer
into basically a tank. And I don't remember what episode
that was. That was one of ours.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think there's one of the no fucking, no fucking ways. Yeah,
kind of painting the ass. That's how you get caught.
You get stuck in a piece of construction.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
They said that the police officers at one point had
to slow down and stop because they kept passing him.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
But three miles an hour, that's like idle, you.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Know, he said, that's like walking speed.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So the fifty three year old driver has been charged
with failure to stop for a blue light, as well
as two counts of malicious injury to real property. He
has a twenty two thousand dollar bond. Uh the part
I was confused about when I read this story. I
thought he had stolen the excavator. Yes, but nowhere does
it say that he was charged with any theft. So
I'm assuming law he didn't break is that it was
his excavator.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I mean sometimes maybe he's drinking and driving him on
to drive his car.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's all that much more embarrassing if it was his
excavator that he got stuck. He shouldn't know what that
thing can do.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Absolutely, So that's it for the news this week. All right, Bud, Well,
what do you got for us this week?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So we're gonna do something different. We're going to do
some true crime. But I wanted to look into some
some murders or deaths that might have a cult connections.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh okay, cool, We're.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Gonna call this one killing for the occult.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Love it all right, guys, we'll catch you over there.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Do you know what the world is?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
It was April of nineteen forty three and the world
was in the midst of the Second World War. Air
raids in Britain were occurring almost nightly. In the country
imposed strict food rationing, people were doing what was necessary
to put food on the table. Four teenage boys were
out bird hunting and looking to raid their nests of
eggs in Worcestershire when they wandered onto the private Hadley
(09:50):
estate owned by Lord Cobham. The boys came upon a
large witch elm tree. When one of the boys, Bob Farmer,
climbed up into the tree to look for bird nests.
He didn't find any bird nests, but what he did
find was a human skull with some strands of curly
brown hair still attached down inside the tree's hollow trunk.
(10:11):
Which elms aren't native to North America just FYI, so
if you're wondering why you have never heard of one,
we don't have them. They're located mainly in Britain and
it's spelled which Wych, not itch. The discovery put the
boys in a predicament. If they told anybody about what
(10:32):
they found, they would be admitting that they were knowingly trespassing.
So they decided they would put the skull back and
remain quiet about what they had found.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I think you're being I think you'd be forgiven.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Nineteen forty is a different stuff was more serious back then.
They would hang you for, like you know, jaywalking back.
The group's youngest member, Thomas Willitts, found himself unable to
keep the secret for even a single day, and he
told his parents about the discovery that very night. When
the secret was revealed, it touched off a mystery that
(11:06):
has endured for over eighty years. When police arrived on scene,
they realized they weren't just dealing with a human skull.
There was an entire female skeleton down inside the hollow trunk.
She still had some clothing attached. She wore a fake
gold wedding ring and still wore one shoe. One of
the woman's hands appeared to have been deliberately severed from
(11:27):
the body, and it was missing. The hand was later
discovered a good distance from the tree. The skull contained
what was described as a very unique dental pattern, which
gave the detectives hope that this might aid them in
the identification of the corpse. During the forensic analysis, pathologist
James Webster determined that the body had likely been in
(11:48):
the tree for about eighteen months before the boys discovered it.
This would have put the death somewhere around October of
nineteen forty one or earlier. He also determined that the
boss but he had been placed inside the tree shortly
after death, while it was still warm. He determined this
due to the fact that the opening the body had
been placed inside was very narrow, and had rigor mortis
(12:11):
begun to set in, the body would not have fit.
The cause of death was found to have been suffocation
from a piece of cloth that was still lodged deep
inside the corpse's mouth. Police set out contacting every dentist
in the country and hopes their body's unique teeth would
spark a memory. They also looked in all missing persons
cases that might match their body, and both avenues came
(12:34):
up empty. The cloth in the woman's throat has since
been a source of debate because the boys suggested that
they had used a stick with cloth at the end
with which to lower the skull back down into the witch.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
ELM, see right off, Yeah, I mean you haven't said,
but I'm wondering, is there a possibility that this person
was like messing around in this tree there was a
big hole and they fell in possibly? Or is this
a is this a murder? Someone stuffed them in there?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's all that's These are the type of questions people
still have today.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
But yeah, yeah, I mean that's what some of the flock.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
All right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I don't ruin anything, but I mean that's what I
think right off when I hear that.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It's fucking rowing now, So that's it, all right, Well,
we're tune in next week. We're gonna rap it there, guys, YadA, YadA, YadA,
we'll catch you next So yeah, the a the boys
didn't say that they put cloth in the mouth. They
did say that we put cloth at the end of
a stick, use that to lower the skull back into
the tree, basically to pretend we never found it. So
(13:31):
they didn't say whether the cloth was still at the
end of their stick when they left, So some think
maybe the cloth in the mouth was from the boys
putting it back in the tree.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
On April twenty fourth, eighteen forty three, Hartlepool Northern Daily
Mail published a description of the woman. Her age is
given as between twenty five and forty, most probably thirty five,
height five foot, with light brown hair, and dressed in
up dark blue and mustard colored striped card again and
mustard colored skir blue crape soled shoes size five and
(14:03):
a half. All the garments were described as poor quality,
and a wedding ring found amongst the bones was of rolled,
basically faked gold. So she was probably not a wealthy
woman then, you know, right though, the description was somewhat vague.
It did generate hundreds of leads, but none of them
panned out, and a year later the woman's identity in
(14:25):
that of her killer remained a mystery. A piece of
graffiti was found on Hayden Hill Road, Old Hill that
gave the mystery a new wrinkle. It read who put
Lubella down the witch Elm? Shortly thereafter a second piece
of graffiti was found on a wall on Upper Dean
Street in Birmingham. It read who put Bella down the
(14:45):
witch Elm? Hagley Wood? Was somebody identifying the body? Police
had assigned the body no name up to this point,
so did the writer know who she was? Or was
it all just a hoax? Hm. The location of the
writing on the walls was high enough that police dismissed
the chance that it was done by kids. The Evening
Dispatch reported quote, and the police are inclined to view
(15:08):
this as the work of someone coming into the city
early in the morning with farm produce. That's an oddly specific, yes,
but I'm sure that was probably most of the traffic
back then.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, the people who came in around that time were
probably all merchants or whatever. Bringing their products in.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
The graffiti didn't bring any useful leads and the case
grew cold. To this day, the body has never been
identified or her killer or killers were never apprehended. One
possible explanation on the body's identity came in from Birmingham
sex worker In nineteen forty four. She told authorities about
another sex worker from the region named Lubella, who had
(15:47):
disappeared about three years previously. That would have put her
disappearance in about nineteen forty one, which lines up with
the estimate of when the body went inside the tree.
Within this theory, Lubella had been lured in Hagley Wood
where she was murdered by unknown assailants. Police also proposed
the theory that Bella had been a refugee from Birmingham
(16:09):
escaping the nightly air raids by the Germans. They'd been
making on this They basically bombed the city every night,
so a lot of people would flee the city. One
of the places Birmingham residents were known to flee the
air raids was to Hagley Woods. This theory doesn't make
any attempt to explain how she ends up inside the
tree or in nineteen fifty three. Una Hainsworth, previously known
(16:33):
as Una A moss Up, told police that back in
nineteen forty one, her husband Jack moss Up, came home
looking white and agitated. She was quite sure this was
either March or April of nineteen forty one. He told
her that he'd been drinking at the Lyttleton Arms with
a man named van Rault and a quote Dutch piece.
(16:54):
This Dutch piece presumably Bella, passed out in their car.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh, the Dutch piece was her?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yes, okay, presumably she passed out in the car. On
the way home. Van Rault told Jack to drive the
car to the abandoned wood, where they then stuck her
inside the hollow elm. She believed, excuse me. They believed
this would cause her to come to her senses when
she woke up the next day and make the necessary
changes in her life. But Bella didn't wake up, and
(17:21):
Jack moss Up became haunted by thoughts and dreams of
the dead woman and the witch Elm. He died in
a mental hospital in nineteen forty two, a year before
the body was discovered. Now this series, it's possible these
guys did it. Don't get me wrong. If they did it,
they didn't do it till like somewhere moral compass. Yeah,
we wanted to see the air of her.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Ways.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
We're bringing a girl who we don't even know home
from a bar, putting her inside of a tree for
the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, just so she'll learn her way. Yeah, come on,
that doesn't say I'm first off, they took her into
the woods, two dudes. You know something shady happened there,
and then I don't know that that whole story he.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Referred to as a Dutch piece. Yeah, and uh yeah,
now his conscience, you know they did it because they
want to save her.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, it's his morals.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Right, It's very possible he was confessing to the crime,
but he wanted to make it sound better.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that's usually it. When they get guilty or whatever,
they'll say it, but they still won't give all the details.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Like, do you want to.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Confess they were? Yeah, they don't want to sound like
the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I want to confess, but I don't want to confess too.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Much, right, I don't want to be punished. I just
want to get it off my chest.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Nineteen forty five, an anthropologist and archaeologist named Margaret Murray
at University College in London, proposed another theory. The witch
elm and the severing of a hand from the body
led her to believe that this was a ritualistic murder
that was tied to witchcraft. Murray believed the case of
Bella and the witch Elm and the nineteen forty five
(18:47):
murderer of Charles Walton were linked and that they were
both related to witchcraft. Police took the witchcraft theory seriously,
but they couldn't find any covens active in that the
area at that time, and they later came to believe
that the hand was possibly severed from the body by
scavengers rather than deliberately.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So first off, if someone was sticking the body, what
I mean, they're gonna bury it. Who's gonna just stick
it in a tree?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Yeah, that part is weird.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You would have to know the area, have to know
the tree was hollow, have to know that it was
big enough to fit a body in it. And what
a weird place to hide a body, you know what
I mean? It just doesn't make any sense unless there's
a person. The person would have to be if someone
stuffed her in there, they would have to have known
the area. Oh yeah, you don't just go wander in
the woods and find a tree with a hole big
(19:35):
enough to stick a body in it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would agree with you. But the flip side of that,
the other alternative is the woman climb climbed into the
tree herself. But that would still apply. What the hell
was she doing in there? She hadn't known the area
really well, uh, that doesn't make any more sense to
me than them sticking.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Around the right, None of it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I would lean towards more. Somebody stuck her and there
was a means of disposing of the body.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yes, I suppose that's that makes the most sense. But
at the same time.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
To know the tree is all, well, you have to
have been up in the tree before, and that's not
normally something adults do.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, especially a tree bigan. I don't know what a witch.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
They're kind of funky looking. They don't get super tall.
The picture of this one, it's not super tall. It
looks like a big ass, graggly bush, but with a
trunk thick enough to climb.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
But right, I mean, because you've got to fit a
body in there, that's gotta be a big trunk in hollow.
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, as technology progressed, it was hoped that DNA testing
might be able to reveal the identity of the corpse,
but that wasn't to be. Today, no one even knows
what happened to Bella's corpse or whoever's corpse. The remains
were known to have been in Birmingham City Police's Black
Museum at least through the nineteen seventies. No one knows
(20:42):
what happened to the body at that point, but police
have sense confirmed that they do not have it, and
a statement to a local newspaper in twenty eighteen, a
spokesperson revealed they can find quote no documentation that may
relate to this case. So for me, it's not hard
to believe that they weren't able to track down a
killer when they can't even find the fucking body.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Dude, how do you lose a body?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It's not the first time we mentioned it, but he's
still missing us all the time.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Like, there's no explanation.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So we know in the seventies it was in their
possession at this point that we don't know who it
is that how do you just lose a body?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, it could end up at a funhouse. We've seen
that one, you know who.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But imagine how much other evidence that they lose they lose.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, I can't find it. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I think some of a lot of it's by them
prom shit. But I can't imagine a body. Probably, how
do you lose a whole goddamn body.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So that's the story of Belle and l Witch film.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
That's an interesting one. I don't know, what do you think.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I'm gonna guess that she was murdered and deliberately hidden
in the tree. I doubt she climbed down there in herself.
It's possible, and it just doesn't make a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Of Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I
would go to the fact that she was murdered too.
Those guys and the lady saying that her husband or
whatever almost seems like a setup to me.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Couldn't no.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But at the same time, she could have just came
if it was as the setup, she could come out
and say, yeah, they killed her and stuffed her in
the tree. And she didn't say that, so you.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Know, of course, she only comes forward with this after
they're not married anymore. So it didn't bother her enough
to rat out her actual husband. She waited till he
was not only dead but was her ex.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Husband, which makes it really suspicious.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
The whole thing suspicious.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So you know, like I said, this was going to
be one about possible occult killings. I do not think
this one had a cult the connections.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
The lady that believes it did, she didn't have much
to tie it to. It was a gas button, I
don't think so. I agree with their theory that the
hand was probably scavenger.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Scavenge I could see that, Yeah, I can see that,
especially if it's in a tree.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You know, all right, We'll be right back with the
next one.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
The world so Less than two years after the discovery
of the body in the witch Elm, Britain had a
second possible witchcraft related killing on their hands. It was
Valentine's Day in nineteen forty five, in the waning months
(23:10):
of World War II, when a small English village became
the site of one of the most gruesome and perplexing
murders in British history. Charles Walton, a seventy four year
old lifelong resident of Lower Quinton in Warwickshire, set up
first thing in the morning to do some hedge trimming
work on a farm near Meon Hill. Walton was a
(23:30):
quiet man, well known to all the villagers, and he
had spent his entire life working in the land. The
alarm bells went up later that day when Walton failed
to return home from his work day. His niece Edie Walton,
with whom he lived, put out the word when he
didn't come home, and a search party was organized. Eventually,
his body was found on a secluded field on Meon
(23:52):
Hill where he had gone to.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Work that day.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Walton's throat was slashed open and he was pinned to
the ground with his own pitchfork. The ties of the
tool were buried deep into the ground beneath his body.
Walton also had a large cross carved into his chest,
a detail which caused great unease within the village. He
had been hit over the head with his own cane,
(24:16):
which lay a few feet away, and he was covered
in blood. His shirt had been on, his shirt had
been opened, and his pants were undone with the zipper down.
The fields were covered in snow and Walton's blood stained
and stained them red, which gave the whole scene a
terrifying vibe.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
That sounds horrible, Yeah, man, yeah, it does for sure.
Gruesome as hell.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Being the first responder among those scenes can lower Quintin,
much like many rural areas, had a rich history in
folklore in superstition dating back hundreds of years. Me On
a hill where Walton's body was found was rumored to
be the site of malevolent spirits, a location where witchcraft
was practiced, and the site of supernatural occur ernances. Many
(25:01):
locals believed that Walton could not only communicate with animals,
but that he possessed the ability to affect their behavior.
Some rumors said that he kept natterjack toads, kept them
as pets, and he could communicate with them, he would
use them to harm the crops and livestock of other
farmers in the region. There were unconfirmed rumors in the
(25:22):
village that Walton dabbled on the witchcraft. The use of
the pitchfork and his killing and the cross cut into
his chest certainly suggests that someone took the witchcraft rumor
very seriously.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, it seemed like back then that witchcraft and
satanism were pretty much considered the same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I think that in most people's minds, they were
at least close cousins, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Right, And I don't think that's the case now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
No, I think there's like a bit much bigger distinction
today than there was back then. But I think most
anything back then that you didn't understand was just evil.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It was just yeah, it was just straight and at
anything that which everybody was a witch. But yeah, nowadays
I think it's a witch has been glorified.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Like pagan Paganism is completely harmless. But back then even
even the word probably would have been like, I don't
know what it is, but it sounds.
Speaker 7 (26:08):
Yeah, it definitely sounds badi, a bitch. Pagan needs to
be stand out. But I think that's definitely true. People
have gotten more open minded, and yeah, for sure, there's
much bigger distinctions between those things.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Now, because I mean, I think witchcraft to a lot
of people nowadays has a positive condenation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Oh, I think they they consider white magic and.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Black matter, right, So I mean, yeah, skept both sides
of it, but it's people way more open. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Scotland Yard sent out one of their best to investigate,
Deputy Chief Investigator Robert Fabian. Fabian found the locals unwilling
to help and often downright hostile towards his investigation. The
locals had deep rooted beliefs that they did not want
him digging into. Fabian did catch when that several locals
had been irritated by Walton's dabbling in white witchcraft. This
(27:07):
was a form of magic that's associated with good luck
and protection. Fabian found these rumors difficult to confirm, but
it did seem to him that Walton had a reputation
for using charms, was known for his unusual ability with animals.
To him, this seemed to have sparked both fear and
resentment in the religious village. What was clear to him
(27:28):
is that the villagers knew much more than they were telling,
and the silence ground the investigation to a hall. The
locals were not tgging at all or nothing. The field
where the body was found was scoured for clues, but
nothing of use was found. Fabian developed two main theories
on what may have happened. He found it quite possible
(27:49):
that Walton had been murdered as part of a ritualistic killing.
The cross carved into his chest and the symbolic mess
of the pitchfork being used to impale him seemed to
be much more than merkle Wi incidents. Perhaps Walton had
been murdered to break a curse or in retaliation for
him dabbling in black magic in a conservative community.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
H they don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Doesn't sound like he was in the black magic. But
maybe the villagers just didn't care. He was into something
they didn't understand and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like Some people magic is magic, right, they.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Didn't understand it, they didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
A second theory that Fabian was unable to fully corroborate
was that Walton had become embroiled in some sort of
dispute with another local laborer, although what this was isn't clear.
In this version, it isn't the supernatural that got him killed,
just a regular old vendettum and a strange twist In
this story, police discovered that Charles Walton had once witnessed
(28:46):
a murder in the very field he would be killed in.
The murder took place on February fourteenth, eighteen eighty five,
exactly sixty years to the day before he himself would
die in that same field.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Oh wow, And.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
As even a version of the story where the person
that was killed sixty years earlier was Charles Waltons. But
I can't find that it could be true. But it's
one of those things I can't find.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, it could also just be a rumor. But regardless,
sixty years apart to the day, that seems strange too, Yeah,
it does. This introduced another potential supernatural element to the stories.
To the story excuse me? Was Walton's death part of
some sort of debt?
Speaker 5 (29:25):
He owed?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Was it part of some cycle that no one really understood.
No one was ever arrested in Walton's murder, and Fabian
would always believe the villagers were withholding vital information. He
also always held the sneaking suspicion that this case might
involve forces. He himself did not fully understand. This guy's
a skeptic on everything, and he even believes that this
case had much more going on than he understood. Although
(29:52):
he never had enough evidence to make an arrest, he
always believed Alfred Potter, Walton's employer, had been the killer.
Potter gave conflicting reports about his actions and whereabouts on
the day of the murder. He said he had been
drinking a beer at College Arms at about noontime, and
then he headed home, cutting across hill ground field. He
(30:12):
reported he had seen Walton at work about five hundred
yards away, and then he had been working in shirt
sleeves at the time. He was wearing a jacket when
his body was found, so that would have made he
got dressed on a hot day.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Potter was quite sure he had seen Walton at twelve twenty,
and he then arrived home at lunch for lunch at
about twelve forty. After lunch, he set out to take
care of a heifer that was stranded in the ditch. However,
it was later revealed that the heifer Potter claimed he
was helping that day had actually drowned the day before,
and he knew it hm sketchy very When Potter later
(30:48):
learned that the police were planning on checking the murder
weapon for Prince, he told them he may have touched
both of them when he was checking the body for
signs of life. Harry Beasley, who had also been there
when the body was discovered, stated that no one had
checked the body for signs of life as it was
abundantly clear that Walton was dead. He also denied having
seen Potter touch the weapons at this time. Definitely seems
(31:11):
like he's cooking up a story his friends trying to
Potter also strangely strangely left the body before the police
arrived on scene, as he claimed to be too cold.
The same guy who just said he saw Walton working
in shirt sleeves because it was warm that day and
all of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Go home.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
He changed the time that he had seen Walton working
in the field multiple times from between twelve ten to
as late as twelve forty, and his activities on that
afternoon changed from checking on a haffer to helping one
of his workers on a completely different task. It was
clear to Fabian that Potter was being very evasive about
his activities that afternoon, but he could not ascertain what
(31:55):
he was actually hiding. In his extensive questioning, he noted
that Potter never lost his temper and remained very civil throughout.
He found him to be quote on the surface, dull witted,
although I am convinced he is far from that. There
were rumors that Potter may have owed Walton money from
(32:15):
a loan he was unable to pay, which would be
a strange a dynamic since Potter was the employer, an
employer borrowing money from employees. It's probably not unheard of,
but it's strange, Yeah it is. Fabian never officially mentioned
witchcraft or the occult in any of his reports at
(32:36):
that time, but twenty five years later he would write
about the case. I advise anyone who is tempted in
any time to venture into black magic, witchcraft, shamanism, call
it what you will, to remember Charles Walton and to
think of his death, which was clearly the ghastly climax
of a pagan rite. There is no stronger argument for
(32:56):
keeping as far away as possible from the villains with
their swords, incense and mumbo jumbo. It is prudence on
which your future peace of mind and even your life
could depend.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
What was he? Who was he getting that from? No idea? Yeah,
I mean it just doesn't fit what. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He was in the village for a while, so clearly
something struck him as there was something going on there.
I think he took his job too seriously to put
it in the report and get laughed at.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But he didn't put it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Now he said this twenty five years later, like he's
retired at this point, it's just him speaking his mind,
so he must well, I got one more detail here?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Did he write a book?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Local folklore holds that black dogs.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Are a harbinger, harbinger harbinger, right, you're asking me.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Yes, harbinger of death.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It's said after Walton's death such a black dog was
found hanging almost in the exact spot where his body
was found. Fabian reported that during his investigation on me
and Hill me on Hill, he saw a black dog
go running past him. A few minutes Slater, a young
boy came walking up from the same direction, and he
asked the boy if he was looking for his dog.
When the boy asked him what color the dog was,
(34:08):
and he told the boy it was black, the child
screamed and sprinted off in the opposite direction. Mm hmm uh,
so that's that's the word. So huh.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
No answer about who it was, I mean, it was.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It seems likely.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Why though? Was it the was it the witchcraft.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Or you know, magic? We'll never know how it was.
The money, A lot of that stuff is rumors. It's
just a rumor that he owed him money. Nobody knows
that for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right, I mean, was it a rumor that he did
all this witchcraft or did he definitely do this witchcraft?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I think he was in the something. I doubt it
was witchcraft that they said, like, you know, crystals and
ship and he was basically doing I don't know, but
it doesn't sound like he was up to anything malevolent, right.
He was good with animals, he had charmed, not the
did he used the word crystals charms, worked with charms
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know. To us, that's crystals. I don't know
what else.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Nineteen forties zo we said, it's different vibes ablute. They
probably just didn't like what They didn't not stand what
he was up to, so they didn't like it. Rural
Pennsylvania in the nineteen twenties was still steeped in the
folk traditions of the German and Dutch immigrants who largely
populated the region. Folk magic was still regularly practiced in
the region. Pow hours, unrelated to the Native American ceremonial practice,
(35:24):
performed magic. Religious folk healing provided cures and relief from illness,
protection from evil, and the removal of hexes and curses.
They would use charms, amulets, prayers, and incantations. The Bible
for powours was Long Lost Friend, a book by John
George Hoeman. On the opposite end of the spectrum from
(35:48):
the powours was black magic or witchcraft. They didn't help others,
but tormented their neighbors, using supernatural powers to do their bidding.
These people were sometimes referred to as he doctors. To
the outside observer, it was difficult to decipher the two,
but in this region at the time, most people believed
all of it to be very real. John Blimeyer had
(36:11):
been born in York County, Pennsylvania, in eighteen ninety five.
Those who knew him described him as a simple man
who had been born into a family of pow wowurs.
He himself had a reputation as a successful healer from
an early age, but as he grew older, he began
to feel that there was a shadow hanging over him.
He began to experience a run of bad luck and
(36:33):
bad health that followed him wherever he went. He was
plagued with near constant headaches. He became convinced that a
hex had been placed on him. One night, as he
lied in bed contemplating his plight, he heard an owl
hoot seven times just outside his window. That was the answer.
His great grandfather, Jacob had been a powerful powwowur as
(36:55):
well as being the seventh son of a seventh son.
He figured he couldn't fight bad against a ghost, so
he decided to move away from his ancestral home, and
his luck did improve for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's funny what sets him off? An hour outside of
the windows, time to be feet gotta go.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
And you're actually sitting there counting ootes. Yeah, that was
up five. Gotta wait for.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Gonna be sure, I'm gonna wait. He met a young
woman named Lily and they were married. In addition to
his folk healing, he found employment doing a variety of
odd jobs. Then his first child died within a few
weeks of birth. His second lived only a couple days.
His behavior became odd and threatening, and Lily successfully convinced
(37:41):
a judge to have him committed to an insane asylum.
While he was there, Lily obtained a divorce and moved away.
The doctors determined that he was obsessed with witches and
curses and needed treatment, but forty eight days into his hospitalization,
he simply walked out the front door and left no
one bothered looking for him. He went to over twenty
(38:03):
witches to try and determine who had hexed him. To
successfully remove a hex, you need to know who had
placed the hecks on you to begin with. None of
them could help him. While working at a cigar factory,
he met two other men who believed they too had
been hext. Fourteen year old John Curry was from an
abusive home and believed a malevolent force was the cause
(38:23):
of troubles at home. You know, it's a different time.
He's working on a factory with a fourteen years Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
No, I was just thinking the whole They think everything's
a hex too. You know, women don't like me. I'm
obviously been hext. It can't be my shitty personality. I
missed two weeks of work and they fucking fight. Yeah,
I've been he It's a god damn it. I'm starting
to think maybe I've been.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Milton Hess ran a successful dairy farm with his wife Alice,
but two years previously their crops began to die off.
His cow stopped producing milk, and they're saving had dwindled away.
The stories of the other men reinforced to Blimeyre that
a hex was indeed the source of his troubles. He
went to see a powerful pow hour, ninety something year
(39:10):
old Nellie Nole, the River Witch of Marietta. When he
asked the identity of his hexer, Noel placed a dollar
bill inside his hand. When she removed the bill, he
looked into the palm of his hand, where he saw
an image of Nelson raemyr Remyre I think as you
say it himself was an old Powour and was known
to Blimeyer. When he was five years old, he had
(39:33):
been gravely ill. His grandfather and father had brought him
to Remyer, who had cured him. Noel was adamant though
that Remyre was his hexer, and he had also a
hext Curry and Hess as well. She did provide a
way for the men to remove their hexes. They needed
to get their hands on Remeyer's copy of Long Lost
Friend as well as the lock of his hair. Both
(39:55):
items were to be then be buried together six feet underground.
On November twenty sixth, nineteen twenty eight, Blimeyre and Hasse
went to Remeyer's house, where they asked if they could
have a few minutes of his time. Despite being in
his sixties, The two men were in r of Remeyer's
size and physical strength. They asked him multiple questions about
(40:17):
magic and powwowing, but never actually told him why they
were there. It became late and Reemyer was cordial enough
to invite them to stay as he slept. The two
scoured his house for the book, but they couldn't find it.
They debated on cutting off some of his hair, but
decided he was just too big for them to handle,
so they left. So Blimeyer returns the next day with
(40:41):
fourteen year old Curry in Hesse's eighteen year old son
Wilbert for backup. The three men brought along ropes and sticks.
They demanded that Remyer hand over his spell book, which
he refused. Exactly what happened next differs according to which
man told the story, but the three men tackled Remyre
in attempt to tie his legs. He was beaten and
(41:02):
then strangled to death. The three men took all the
money they found in the house and douse the body
and the house and kerosene. And some versions of the
story they found the book. In most they did not,
but whichever case the book was left behind, if they
did find it, to burn up in the fire.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah. I think it's funny. It's like there was the
two dudes there. They leave, like, we need backup. We
need to go get a fourteen year old boy. Yeah,
this guy looks formidable. We're gonna need us a teenager
to come in there and help us rough him up.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, so that the next day when he comes back,
one of the guys of his ACKs didn't come back.
He sent his eighteen year old son.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, you get an eighteen year old son, a fourteen
year old I mean, I know the guys. This is
in the twenties. I imagine sixties was pretty old for
the twenties.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, yeah, this is nineteen twenty eight. Yeah, so they
set everything on fire. So obviously his hair is gonna burn,
and the book would burn so and there are if
it's burning up, it's still as good as bearing it,
and that the hex will be lifted. When they departed,
the body in the house were fully engulfed in flames,
but after they departed, the fire mysteriously went out. The
(42:13):
evidence was not destroyed. The body was found the following
day when neighbors noticed that the farm animals had not
been fed. Alice Remyer. Nelson's ex wife was able to
tell police that the men had mistakenly shown up to
her house first looking for him. She then told them
where Nelson actually lived. The three men were arrested.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
That was probably bad. If you're going to commit a crime,
go somewhere first. Hey, we're looking for this guy, we're
looking to kill.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
How suspicious is that he turns up dead? And these
clowns were at her house the night before. She isn't
gonna be like, oh, by the way, not the brightest
bulbs those guys. So the three men were arrested and
placed on trial, and the famous Hex Murder of York
County received huge media coverage. Most Americans were shocked that
(43:02):
such traditions, practices, and belief in magic still existed. Hess
received ten years in prison, while Blimeier and Curry received
life sentences. All three were eventually paroled and went on
to live their lives without further run ins with the law.
The press coverage of the event caused a sort of
a hex panic, similar to the Satanic panic of the
(43:24):
nineteen eighties, where the occult was found in the most
benign events and every crime or death was attributed to evil.
State authorities launched a campaign against powwowurs Ian Hex's doctors,
arresting and prosecuting them for practicing medicine without a license.
Those that continue to practice went underground, and the practice
(43:44):
largely died out, although some of the healers do remain today.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, it's funny because that case sounded like it
was from like one hundred years before. It didn't sound
like something that was happening in the nineteen twenties. You know,
all these people believe in hexes.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And then when the story came out, a lot of
people were shocked that that stuff still existed or still happened.
But you know, living in not means like a real
rural state, but even in Maine you'll find the really
rural versus the urban areas. It's completely different. That's a
lot of thoughts and opinions.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And you know that's true, and like you just mentioned,
it was it wasn't that long ago. The Satanic panic
that was a real thing though they really believed that ship.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah so yeah, yeah, so the so the first case
though the witch Elm I don't think it had anything
to do with the occulton just a my opinion either.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
Charles Walton.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I think probably did, and the last one obviously did.
There's no question to it.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Right, So yeah, I would say the same. The witch
Elm was really That one really throws me because they
just can't understand. I don't think she I don't think
she fell into the tree or anything like that. It
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Any explanation doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
None of them, though. I mean, it's I don't know
why you went bury. I guess digging holes are hardy lazy. Yeah,
digging the hole is a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
If it was, if it was the two drunk guys,
they're not gonna dig now the hell they knew there
was an empty witch Elm.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, I mean, by sure happenstance, I don't know. That
seems unlikely. Said that you sit in the.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
Car of the body.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I'm just gonna climb trees untill I find one that's.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
All over it. So happens, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Oh, those are great, man, I loved it.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Guys, Well we are going to head over to the
fire pit. We will catch you over there.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I said, nosmit is I can't.
Speaker 6 (45:38):
Try to fire.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Before we get started. Guys, if you have a story
you'd like to tell uh, you can send it to
Beyond the Shadows two o seven at gmail dot com
or send it to any of our socials. If you've
sent one in to us, you will be getting to
it and we could use more, So please get those
stories into us. It doesn't have to be paranormal, sure,
it can be just anything you'd talk about with your
friends around the fire pit. This one here comes to
(46:11):
us from Ashley from Wisconsin. Thank you for sending in Ashley,
and here we go.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Hello shadow people, do I have a story for you?
I'm not gifted in storytelling, so bear with me. But
here we go. So around three years ago I was
graage sealing in my city and it happened upon a
house kind of on the outskirts of town, and as
(46:40):
I approached it, immediately noticed a beautiful Norfolk pine. This
is like a potted pine tree. It has swooping branches
and long strings of needles hanging off, very beautiful. It
was like five feet tall and it was for forty dollars.
So I immediately snatched it and brought it home, and
I quickly learned that these are very high maintenance plants.
(47:03):
They need the perfect amount of humidity and light to thrive,
and in my small house with not a ton of
natural light, it quickly started to fall apart, as in
needles falling off every day, full branches falling off, and
(47:24):
being it was such a huge tree, it was like
a two year struggle of constantly cleaning up and trying
to figure out what to do and how to help it.
And I finally gave up and it ended up outside
on my porch where it slowly faded away and died.
(47:45):
So fast forward to this summer. A few weeks ago,
I was outcrash sailing again in my city and I
happened upon the same house, and as I approached, I
saw a man sitting behind the counter, and I asked him, Hey,
do you remember a norful pine that you sold me
three years ago? I'm pretty sure I bought it from
(48:09):
this house. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, how's the
tree doing? And matter of factly, I just said it died.
He seems a little taken aback, and he backtracks and says,
I think you have the wrong house. Yeah, yeah, you
have the wrong house, and he stands up and he
(48:30):
just walks inside, and I'm kind of left standing in
their garage a little confused and doubting myself a little bit.
But no, no, no, it was this house. His wife
comes out a few minutes later, and I approached her
with the same question. Do you remember a Norfolk pine
that I bought from you guys around three years ago? Oh?
(48:54):
The Norfolk pine? Of course I remember that tree.
Speaker 8 (48:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
You know my husband he loved that tree. He raised
that tree from when I was about two inches high.
He put his heart and soul into that tree, and
he told me that the day that that tree died
would be the tree the day that he died.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
How's the tree doing? I stammer, It's okay. I didn't
have the heart to tell her, even though I had
just told him that it had died. And I had
to question myself why I felt it so necessary to
(49:38):
tell these people that the plant had died?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Am I the grim Reaper? Am I I just deliver
the news of death? And for three years of this
man hoping he never had to hear or know of
this plant ever. Again. Can't be a coincidence, right, thank
you shadow people?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
So what I get from that is that you are
definitely the grim rey Berg for sure. You know, it's funny.
I was listening to this story in the car tonight.
I was going through the fire pits, and I had
your son with me. Yeah, and he was playing the
game on the iPad and he you know, you could
just tell he was kind of listening, and all of
(50:22):
a sudden, I hear him go, what huh?
Speaker 5 (50:28):
Nah, So the dude never came back.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, that's no doubt to tell you. That's something weird
going on there, for sure.
Speaker 5 (50:39):
Yeah, but he was wrong.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
So he said the day the tree dies the day
I die. But by the time she told him the
tree died, that the tree has been dead for a while.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, that's wrong. He should be all right, But why
did that? That is quite the coincidence that you come
across the same house and you just so happened to
want to tell him. Yeah you know that.
Speaker 5 (50:56):
Yeah, it's a good story, that really was.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And yeah, you she says she wasn't a storyteller. You
could tell she's a storyteller. I could tell. She paused
for dramatic effect.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
She sucked up a lot less than we do.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah, right, that's not hard. That's not hard at all. Now,
great story. We appreciate you sending that in Ashley ash
Ashley right, yes, and guys, get those stories into us
and we're glad to be back. Hopefully we won't have
to take another break. Ryan wanted to let you know.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yeah, we time wasn't We didn't have a bunnets of
time this week, so we actually had a record in
a couple of little segments here when we had the
available time. So hopefully it doesn't come out choppy. If
it does come out a little choppy, that's the reason.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, we're still we still got some events and stuff
going on with everything, so.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Next week we should be back to moment. Hopefully this
one comes out smooth. We're just kind of giving you
a heads up. If it's a little weird, that's that's
gonna be why.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
But if it's a little wonky, that's Ryan, that's my thing. Yeah, right,
that's my thing. We're trying to steal my thing. Any guys,
we appreciate everything. We appreciate, like I said, all the
condolences and everything that you sent. It was amazing, and
we'll try to get back on track now and get
everything back to the way it was, and get those
(52:10):
stories into us and we will catch you in the
next one later, Guess.
Hey, everybody, join us as we delve into our favorite
dark tales and paranormal mysteries.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Venture with us beyond the safe places that exist in daylight.
As we go Beyond the Shadows, true crime, paranormal hauntings, UFOs,
cryptids and unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories, past lives, reincarnation and
all the like are.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Just a few of the topics that we will tackle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If it haunts your fucking dreams, then it will be
on our show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Do you know what the most in the world is?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
On the shuttles where you found me? Yet you can't
see me in the deepest blacks when your heart starbus
and then you see their cracks, all these creepy things
that you why at track well the demens be where
the actions at. So this enough you want it, UFOs,
all them ghosts. We got everything that you want.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It won't do you know what the thing in the
world is?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Hey, guys, and welcome back to episode one forty five.
It is h one forty five of Beyond the Shadows.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Welcome back Shadow family.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, so we want to first off, we want to
thank everybody for all the condolences and well wishes you guys,
have been incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely, we appreciate that a lot, guys.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, we really do. We've been gone for a couple
of weeks. We did mention we had a death in
the family. Ryan and my aunt had passed away and
we're still still going through. We have the funeral coming
up and everything. But it's been kind of tough. But
we appreciate all of you guys, all the condolences, all
the messages, everything we got, we really appreciate.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Absolutely, very nice.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You guys means a lot, really absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So, Bud, let's just jump right into the news.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
What do we got, all right, So we've all heard
of the dining dash. This week in Detroit, we had
a dump and dash. A man walked into a Forman
Mills store at the corner of eight Mile and Van Dyke.
He went straight to the shoe department, dropped his pants,
dropped a deuce, skipped to the wiping entirely. He just
pulled up his pants and left the store.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
He bounced.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
The store does have a bathroom.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's closed unless you ask for permission, which they will grant.
I guess it's been closed since COVID nineteen, which it
seems ridiculous to me just opened the bathroom.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
This is what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I regardless. This dude never asked for permission. He seemed
like he was on a mission. He went and went
through the door, went straight to the shoe department, and
he comes in with another guy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
He was not even alone.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
The other guy went over to another section of the store,
so it seems like it was like a pre planned event.
This guy drops the deuce, they meet back at the.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Door, leave the store and.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Completely such a no reason. A random crime just comes in,
drops trow and freaking bounces right out the door.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Man.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They got a video surveillance, but as of right now
they don't know who he is. He hasn't been arrested.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
To do some DNA sampling on that turd, man in
a back and paint dress with a black wrap and
a mask was observed shoplifting multiple items in Hollywood, Florida.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This is maybe two weeks ago. I thought the point
of a disguise was supposed to like deflect attention.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, not to bring it clear, not to look fabulous.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Uh so you know I'm gonna go with a dress.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'm wrapped as much attention to myself as I possibly can.
I look hot, Yeah, look at me.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So then the guy, you know, he steals the big
ticket items like candy, soda, frappuccinos, and breaded fried shrimp.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
That was his hall.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's a pretty good at hall. That's a good, good
Friday night that.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
My son would love that. It's like a shopping list
right there.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So the got our first suspect.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
He exits the store publics, where law enforcement then tracks
him down. So his name this is a couple of
weeks ago. His name on the rest report at the
time was listed as John Publics. So I don't know
if that's his real name, if you're lying until.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That's he obviously owns that place. It's my dad, I
own this place.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
In fact, he said, yeah, right, he didn't drop a deuce,
so there's that going for him. Well, they didn't give
him a chance, right, He wasn't done yet after he
ate the fried shrimp. Right coming back yet, Man and
woman visited a Jersey Mics in Santa Rosi, Santa Rosa County, Florida.
This is again a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Alright, So not only is Florida real popular, this is
this this area. We keep doing stories on Santa Rosa
Is That's right where I remember. I tell you I
lived there near Agulin Air Force Base. This one keeps
coming up over and over again. So not just Florida,
but this spot in Florida.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
The story again, we can a half two weeks old.
So they go in, they eat in a Jersey mics,
they leave. After they leave, an employee finds a crumpled
note near the bathroom toilet dispenser. The had been handwritten
by the woman and indicated that she was being held
against her will and included a nearby address. Fortunately, the
(05:07):
employee contacted police, who did a welfare check at that address,
where they arrested thirty four year old Jordan Williams. The
unnamed woman was also found at the address with multiple
bruises and broken bones. Williams has a history of domestic
violence and was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, kidnapping,
false imprisonment, imprisonment felony, and misdemeanor battery and battery by strangulation.
(05:33):
The woman was transported to the hospital to be treated
for her injuries. Thank god that employeed and just crumple
no kidding. If I was in the habit of cleaning
a bathroom. I'm probably not looking up the pieces of paper. Yeah,
but you know, you know bathrooms are gross.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
If that was me, I would I wouldn't. I don't
pay attention to the fine details like that. I think
you'd be way more apted realize something like that was
going a lot of times, I'm oblivious to what's going
on around me, but you always paid the deal.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I pay attention to what's going on around me, so
I would. I probably would have noticed the vibe, I mean,
the couple. But if I was cleaning the bathroom, Yeah,
and I find a wadded up piece of paper on
the floor, I don't know if i'd be apt to
open it and read it. You can assume it's so
like nasty. Yeah, absolutely, thank god this person did.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah that. I mean, I've heard of a few things
like that. Like, I guess there's some signs and symbols
that people can do to let you know that they're
in distress, and I don't know that I would catch
hardly any of them. You know, Like I said, a
lot of time, I'm in my own world when I'm
going places, I need to pay better attention.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The Netherlands National Museum recently placed a new item on display.
It's a two hundred year old condom believed to have
been made around eighteen thirty. It's made from a sheep's
appendix and features artwork that includes an image of a
nun and three clergy. It's believed to have been from
a red light district brothel.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's got a nun and three? Is that to stop you?
I know?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Right? Is that to or?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Is that not a whore? What do we just there's
obviously if it's one in one nun three clergy? Who
maybe she.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Was, Yeah, yeah, you're all in the moon.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And then you get a wrap like a sheet pieces over.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Your jump with a picture of a nun on the side.
By the time you're done, you're not just skip it.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I can't do it. The nun was staring at me.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Lastly, we have police in South Carolina. They recently began
pursuit on an excavator on a highway in North Charleston
as it blew through an intersection. They had already taken
notice of the construction vehicle when the call came in
from a local business that had just been burglarized and
heavily damaged. The pursuit lasted for over an hour and
reached blazing speeds of three miles per hour.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It was prison.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The chase ended when the driver entered the Charleston County
Fairgrounds and got himself stuck.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know, this one reminds me of Killdozer. Yeah, remember
that one the guy had taken. He turned a bulldozer
into basically a tank. And I don't remember what episode
that was. That was one of ours.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think there's one of the no fucking, no fucking ways. Yeah,
kind of painting the ass. That's how you get caught.
You get stuck in a piece of construction.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
They said that the police officers at one point had
to slow down and stop because they kept passing him.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
But three miles an hour, that's like idle, you.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Know, he said, that's like walking speed.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So the fifty three year old driver has been charged
with failure to stop for a blue light, as well
as two counts of malicious injury to real property. He
has a twenty two thousand dollar bond. Uh the part
I was confused about when I read this story. I
thought he had stolen the excavator. Yes, but nowhere does
it say that he was charged with any theft. So
I'm assuming law he didn't break is that it was
his excavator.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I mean sometimes maybe he's drinking and driving him on
to drive his car.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's all that much more embarrassing if it was his
excavator that he got stuck. He shouldn't know what that
thing can do.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Absolutely, So that's it for the news this week. All right, Bud, Well,
what do you got for us this week?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So we're gonna do something different. We're going to do
some true crime. But I wanted to look into some
some murders or deaths that might have a cult connections.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh okay, cool, We're.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Gonna call this one killing for the occult.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Love it all right, guys, we'll catch you over there.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Do you know what the world is?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
It was April of nineteen forty three and the world
was in the midst of the Second World War. Air
raids in Britain were occurring almost nightly. In the country
imposed strict food rationing, people were doing what was necessary
to put food on the table. Four teenage boys were
out bird hunting and looking to raid their nests of
eggs in Worcestershire when they wandered onto the private Hadley
(09:50):
estate owned by Lord Cobham. The boys came upon a
large witch elm tree. When one of the boys, Bob Farmer,
climbed up into the tree to look for bird nests.
He didn't find any bird nests, but what he did
find was a human skull with some strands of curly
brown hair still attached down inside the tree's hollow trunk.
(10:11):
Which elms aren't native to North America just FYI, so
if you're wondering why you have never heard of one,
we don't have them. They're located mainly in Britain and
it's spelled which Wych, not itch. The discovery put the
boys in a predicament. If they told anybody about what
(10:32):
they found, they would be admitting that they were knowingly trespassing.
So they decided they would put the skull back and
remain quiet about what they had found.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I think you're being I think you'd be forgiven.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Nineteen forty is a different stuff was more serious back then.
They would hang you for, like you know, jaywalking back.
The group's youngest member, Thomas Willitts, found himself unable to
keep the secret for even a single day, and he
told his parents about the discovery that very night. When
the secret was revealed, it touched off a mystery that
(11:06):
has endured for over eighty years. When police arrived on scene,
they realized they weren't just dealing with a human skull.
There was an entire female skeleton down inside the hollow trunk.
She still had some clothing attached. She wore a fake
gold wedding ring and still wore one shoe. One of
the woman's hands appeared to have been deliberately severed from
(11:27):
the body, and it was missing. The hand was later
discovered a good distance from the tree. The skull contained
what was described as a very unique dental pattern, which
gave the detectives hope that this might aid them in
the identification of the corpse. During the forensic analysis, pathologist
James Webster determined that the body had likely been in
(11:48):
the tree for about eighteen months before the boys discovered it.
This would have put the death somewhere around October of
nineteen forty one or earlier. He also determined that the
boss but he had been placed inside the tree shortly
after death, while it was still warm. He determined this
due to the fact that the opening the body had
been placed inside was very narrow, and had rigor mortis
(12:11):
begun to set in, the body would not have fit.
The cause of death was found to have been suffocation
from a piece of cloth that was still lodged deep
inside the corpse's mouth. Police set out contacting every dentist
in the country and hopes their body's unique teeth would
spark a memory. They also looked in all missing persons
cases that might match their body, and both avenues came
(12:34):
up empty. The cloth in the woman's throat has since
been a source of debate because the boys suggested that
they had used a stick with cloth at the end
with which to lower the skull back down into the witch.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
ELM, see right off, Yeah, I mean you haven't said,
but I'm wondering, is there a possibility that this person
was like messing around in this tree there was a
big hole and they fell in possibly? Or is this
a is this a murder? Someone stuffed them in there?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's all that's These are the type of questions people
still have today.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
But yeah, yeah, I mean that's what some of the flock.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
All right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I don't ruin anything, but I mean that's what I
think right off when I hear that.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It's fucking rowing now, So that's it, all right, Well,
we're tune in next week. We're gonna rap it there, guys, YadA, YadA, YadA,
we'll catch you next So yeah, the a the boys
didn't say that they put cloth in the mouth. They
did say that we put cloth at the end of
a stick, use that to lower the skull back into
the tree, basically to pretend we never found it. So
(13:31):
they didn't say whether the cloth was still at the
end of their stick when they left, So some think
maybe the cloth in the mouth was from the boys
putting it back in the tree.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
On April twenty fourth, eighteen forty three, Hartlepool Northern Daily
Mail published a description of the woman. Her age is
given as between twenty five and forty, most probably thirty five,
height five foot, with light brown hair, and dressed in
up dark blue and mustard colored striped card again and
mustard colored skir blue crape soled shoes size five and
(14:03):
a half. All the garments were described as poor quality,
and a wedding ring found amongst the bones was of rolled,
basically faked gold. So she was probably not a wealthy
woman then, you know, right though, the description was somewhat vague.
It did generate hundreds of leads, but none of them
panned out, and a year later the woman's identity in
(14:25):
that of her killer remained a mystery. A piece of
graffiti was found on Hayden Hill Road, Old Hill that
gave the mystery a new wrinkle. It read who put
Lubella down the witch Elm? Shortly thereafter a second piece
of graffiti was found on a wall on Upper Dean
Street in Birmingham. It read who put Bella down the
(14:45):
witch Elm? Hagley Wood? Was somebody identifying the body? Police
had assigned the body no name up to this point,
so did the writer know who she was? Or was
it all just a hoax? Hm. The location of the
writing on the walls was high enough that police dismissed
the chance that it was done by kids. The Evening
Dispatch reported quote, and the police are inclined to view
(15:08):
this as the work of someone coming into the city
early in the morning with farm produce. That's an oddly specific, yes,
but I'm sure that was probably most of the traffic
back then.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, the people who came in around that time were
probably all merchants or whatever. Bringing their products in.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
The graffiti didn't bring any useful leads and the case
grew cold. To this day, the body has never been
identified or her killer or killers were never apprehended. One
possible explanation on the body's identity came in from Birmingham
sex worker In nineteen forty four. She told authorities about
another sex worker from the region named Lubella, who had
(15:47):
disappeared about three years previously. That would have put her
disappearance in about nineteen forty one, which lines up with
the estimate of when the body went inside the tree.
Within this theory, Lubella had been lured in Hagley Wood
where she was murdered by unknown assailants. Police also proposed
the theory that Bella had been a refugee from Birmingham
(16:09):
escaping the nightly air raids by the Germans. They'd been
making on this They basically bombed the city every night,
so a lot of people would flee the city. One
of the places Birmingham residents were known to flee the
air raids was to Hagley Woods. This theory doesn't make
any attempt to explain how she ends up inside the
tree or in nineteen fifty three. Una Hainsworth, previously known
(16:33):
as Una A moss Up, told police that back in
nineteen forty one, her husband Jack moss Up, came home
looking white and agitated. She was quite sure this was
either March or April of nineteen forty one. He told
her that he'd been drinking at the Lyttleton Arms with
a man named van Rault and a quote Dutch piece.
(16:54):
This Dutch piece presumably Bella, passed out in their car.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh, the Dutch piece was her?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yes, okay, presumably she passed out in the car. On
the way home. Van Rault told Jack to drive the
car to the abandoned wood, where they then stuck her
inside the hollow elm. She believed, excuse me. They believed
this would cause her to come to her senses when
she woke up the next day and make the necessary
changes in her life. But Bella didn't wake up, and
(17:21):
Jack moss Up became haunted by thoughts and dreams of
the dead woman and the witch Elm. He died in
a mental hospital in nineteen forty two, a year before
the body was discovered. Now this series, it's possible these
guys did it. Don't get me wrong. If they did it,
they didn't do it till like somewhere moral compass. Yeah,
we wanted to see the air of her.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Ways.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
We're bringing a girl who we don't even know home
from a bar, putting her inside of a tree for
the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, just so she'll learn her way. Yeah, come on,
that doesn't say I'm first off, they took her into
the woods, two dudes. You know something shady happened there,
and then I don't know that that whole story he.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Referred to as a Dutch piece. Yeah, and uh yeah,
now his conscience, you know they did it because they
want to save her.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, it's his morals.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Right, It's very possible he was confessing to the crime,
but he wanted to make it sound better.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that's usually it. When they get guilty or whatever,
they'll say it, but they still won't give all the details.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Like, do you want to.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Confess they were? Yeah, they don't want to sound like
the bad guy.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I want to confess, but I don't want to confess too.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Much, right, I don't want to be punished. I just
want to get it off my chest.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Nineteen forty five, an anthropologist and archaeologist named Margaret Murray
at University College in London, proposed another theory. The witch
elm and the severing of a hand from the body
led her to believe that this was a ritualistic murder
that was tied to witchcraft. Murray believed the case of
Bella and the witch Elm and the nineteen forty five
(18:47):
murderer of Charles Walton were linked and that they were
both related to witchcraft. Police took the witchcraft theory seriously,
but they couldn't find any covens active in that the
area at that time, and they later came to believe
that the hand was possibly severed from the body by
scavengers rather than deliberately.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So first off, if someone was sticking the body, what
I mean, they're gonna bury it. Who's gonna just stick
it in a tree?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Yeah, that part is weird.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You would have to know the area, have to know
the tree was hollow, have to know that it was
big enough to fit a body in it. And what
a weird place to hide a body, you know what
I mean? It just doesn't make any sense unless there's
a person. The person would have to be if someone
stuffed her in there, they would have to have known
the area. Oh yeah, you don't just go wander in
the woods and find a tree with a hole big
(19:35):
enough to stick a body in it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would agree with you. But the flip side of that,
the other alternative is the woman climb climbed into the
tree herself. But that would still apply. What the hell
was she doing in there? She hadn't known the area
really well, uh, that doesn't make any more sense to
me than them sticking.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Around the right, None of it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I would lean towards more. Somebody stuck her and there
was a means of disposing of the body.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yes, I suppose that's that makes the most sense. But
at the same time.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
To know the tree is all, well, you have to
have been up in the tree before, and that's not
normally something adults do.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, especially a tree bigan. I don't know what a witch.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
They're kind of funky looking. They don't get super tall.
The picture of this one, it's not super tall. It
looks like a big ass, graggly bush, but with a
trunk thick enough to climb.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
But right, I mean, because you've got to fit a
body in there, that's gotta be a big trunk in hollow.
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, as technology progressed, it was hoped that DNA testing
might be able to reveal the identity of the corpse,
but that wasn't to be. Today, no one even knows
what happened to Bella's corpse or whoever's corpse. The remains
were known to have been in Birmingham City Police's Black
Museum at least through the nineteen seventies. No one knows
(20:42):
what happened to the body at that point, but police
have sense confirmed that they do not have it, and
a statement to a local newspaper in twenty eighteen, a
spokesperson revealed they can find quote no documentation that may
relate to this case. So for me, it's not hard
to believe that they weren't able to track down a
killer when they can't even find the fucking body.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Dude, how do you lose a body?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It's not the first time we mentioned it, but he's
still missing us all the time.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Like, there's no explanation.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So we know in the seventies it was in their
possession at this point that we don't know who it
is that how do you just lose a body?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, it could end up at a funhouse. We've seen
that one, you know who.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But imagine how much other evidence that they lose they lose.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, I can't find it. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I think some of a lot of it's by them
prom shit. But I can't imagine a body. Probably, how
do you lose a whole goddamn body.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So that's the story of Belle and l Witch film.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
That's an interesting one. I don't know, what do you think.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I'm gonna guess that she was murdered and deliberately hidden
in the tree. I doubt she climbed down there in herself.
It's possible, and it just doesn't make a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Of Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I
would go to the fact that she was murdered too.
Those guys and the lady saying that her husband or
whatever almost seems like a setup to me.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Couldn't no.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But at the same time, she could have just came
if it was as the setup, she could come out
and say, yeah, they killed her and stuffed her in
the tree. And she didn't say that, so you.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Know, of course, she only comes forward with this after
they're not married anymore. So it didn't bother her enough
to rat out her actual husband. She waited till he
was not only dead but was her ex.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Husband, which makes it really suspicious.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
The whole thing suspicious.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So you know, like I said, this was going to
be one about possible occult killings. I do not think
this one had a cult the connections.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
The lady that believes it did, she didn't have much
to tie it to. It was a gas button, I
don't think so. I agree with their theory that the
hand was probably scavenger.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Scavenge I could see that, Yeah, I can see that,
especially if it's in a tree.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You know, all right, We'll be right back with the
next one.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
The world so Less than two years after the discovery
of the body in the witch Elm, Britain had a
second possible witchcraft related killing on their hands. It was
Valentine's Day in nineteen forty five, in the waning months
(23:10):
of World War II, when a small English village became
the site of one of the most gruesome and perplexing
murders in British history. Charles Walton, a seventy four year
old lifelong resident of Lower Quinton in Warwickshire, set up
first thing in the morning to do some hedge trimming
work on a farm near Meon Hill. Walton was a
(23:30):
quiet man, well known to all the villagers, and he
had spent his entire life working in the land. The
alarm bells went up later that day when Walton failed
to return home from his work day. His niece Edie Walton,
with whom he lived, put out the word when he
didn't come home, and a search party was organized. Eventually,
his body was found on a secluded field on Meon
(23:52):
Hill where he had gone to.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Work that day.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Walton's throat was slashed open and he was pinned to
the ground with his own pitchfork. The ties of the
tool were buried deep into the ground beneath his body.
Walton also had a large cross carved into his chest,
a detail which caused great unease within the village. He
had been hit over the head with his own cane,
(24:16):
which lay a few feet away, and he was covered
in blood. His shirt had been on, his shirt had
been opened, and his pants were undone with the zipper down.
The fields were covered in snow and Walton's blood stained
and stained them red, which gave the whole scene a
terrifying vibe.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
That sounds horrible, Yeah, man, yeah, it does for sure.
Gruesome as hell.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Being the first responder among those scenes can lower Quintin,
much like many rural areas, had a rich history in
folklore in superstition dating back hundreds of years. Me On
a hill where Walton's body was found was rumored to
be the site of malevolent spirits, a location where witchcraft
was practiced, and the site of supernatural occur ernances. Many
(25:01):
locals believed that Walton could not only communicate with animals,
but that he possessed the ability to affect their behavior.
Some rumors said that he kept natterjack toads, kept them
as pets, and he could communicate with them, he would
use them to harm the crops and livestock of other
farmers in the region. There were unconfirmed rumors in the
(25:22):
village that Walton dabbled on the witchcraft. The use of
the pitchfork and his killing and the cross cut into
his chest certainly suggests that someone took the witchcraft rumor
very seriously.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, it seemed like back then that witchcraft and
satanism were pretty much considered the same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I think that in most people's minds, they were
at least close cousins, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Right, And I don't think that's the case now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
No, I think there's like a bit much bigger distinction
today than there was back then. But I think most
anything back then that you didn't understand was just evil.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
It was just yeah, it was just straight and at
anything that which everybody was a witch. But yeah, nowadays
I think it's a witch has been glorified.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Like pagan Paganism is completely harmless. But back then even
even the word probably would have been like, I don't
know what it is, but it sounds.
Speaker 7 (26:08):
Yeah, it definitely sounds badi, a bitch. Pagan needs to
be stand out. But I think that's definitely true. People
have gotten more open minded, and yeah, for sure, there's
much bigger distinctions between those things.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Now, because I mean, I think witchcraft to a lot
of people nowadays has a positive condenation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Oh, I think they they consider white magic and.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Black matter, right, So I mean, yeah, skept both sides
of it, but it's people way more open. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Scotland Yard sent out one of their best to investigate,
Deputy Chief Investigator Robert Fabian. Fabian found the locals unwilling
to help and often downright hostile towards his investigation. The
locals had deep rooted beliefs that they did not want
him digging into. Fabian did catch when that several locals
had been irritated by Walton's dabbling in white witchcraft. This
(27:07):
was a form of magic that's associated with good luck
and protection. Fabian found these rumors difficult to confirm, but
it did seem to him that Walton had a reputation
for using charms, was known for his unusual ability with animals.
To him, this seemed to have sparked both fear and
resentment in the religious village. What was clear to him
(27:28):
is that the villagers knew much more than they were telling,
and the silence ground the investigation to a hall. The
locals were not tgging at all or nothing. The field
where the body was found was scoured for clues, but
nothing of use was found. Fabian developed two main theories
on what may have happened. He found it quite possible
(27:49):
that Walton had been murdered as part of a ritualistic killing.
The cross carved into his chest and the symbolic mess
of the pitchfork being used to impale him seemed to
be much more than merkle Wi incidents. Perhaps Walton had
been murdered to break a curse or in retaliation for
him dabbling in black magic in a conservative community.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
H they don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Doesn't sound like he was in the black magic. But
maybe the villagers just didn't care. He was into something
they didn't understand and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like Some people magic is magic, right, they.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Didn't understand it, they didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
A second theory that Fabian was unable to fully corroborate
was that Walton had become embroiled in some sort of
dispute with another local laborer, although what this was isn't clear.
In this version, it isn't the supernatural that got him killed,
just a regular old vendettum and a strange twist In
this story, police discovered that Charles Walton had once witnessed
(28:46):
a murder in the very field he would be killed in.
The murder took place on February fourteenth, eighteen eighty five,
exactly sixty years to the day before he himself would
die in that same field.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Oh wow, And.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
As even a version of the story where the person
that was killed sixty years earlier was Charles Waltons. But
I can't find that it could be true. But it's
one of those things I can't find.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, it could also just be a rumor. But regardless,
sixty years apart to the day, that seems strange too, Yeah,
it does. This introduced another potential supernatural element to the stories.
To the story excuse me? Was Walton's death part of
some sort of debt?
Speaker 5 (29:25):
He owed?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Was it part of some cycle that no one really understood.
No one was ever arrested in Walton's murder, and Fabian
would always believe the villagers were withholding vital information. He
also always held the sneaking suspicion that this case might
involve forces. He himself did not fully understand. This guy's
a skeptic on everything, and he even believes that this
case had much more going on than he understood. Although
(29:52):
he never had enough evidence to make an arrest, he
always believed Alfred Potter, Walton's employer, had been the killer.
Potter gave conflicting reports about his actions and whereabouts on
the day of the murder. He said he had been
drinking a beer at College Arms at about noontime, and
then he headed home, cutting across hill ground field. He
(30:12):
reported he had seen Walton at work about five hundred
yards away, and then he had been working in shirt
sleeves at the time. He was wearing a jacket when
his body was found, so that would have made he
got dressed on a hot day.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Potter was quite sure he had seen Walton at twelve twenty,
and he then arrived home at lunch for lunch at
about twelve forty. After lunch, he set out to take
care of a heifer that was stranded in the ditch. However,
it was later revealed that the heifer Potter claimed he
was helping that day had actually drowned the day before,
and he knew it hm sketchy very When Potter later
(30:48):
learned that the police were planning on checking the murder
weapon for Prince, he told them he may have touched
both of them when he was checking the body for
signs of life. Harry Beasley, who had also been there
when the body was discovered, stated that no one had
checked the body for signs of life as it was
abundantly clear that Walton was dead. He also denied having
seen Potter touch the weapons at this time. Definitely seems
(31:11):
like he's cooking up a story his friends trying to
Potter also strangely strangely left the body before the police
arrived on scene, as he claimed to be too cold.
The same guy who just said he saw Walton working
in shirt sleeves because it was warm that day and
all of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Go home.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
He changed the time that he had seen Walton working
in the field multiple times from between twelve ten to
as late as twelve forty, and his activities on that
afternoon changed from checking on a haffer to helping one
of his workers on a completely different task. It was
clear to Fabian that Potter was being very evasive about
his activities that afternoon, but he could not ascertain what
(31:55):
he was actually hiding. In his extensive questioning, he noted
that Potter never lost his temper and remained very civil throughout.
He found him to be quote on the surface, dull witted,
although I am convinced he is far from that. There
were rumors that Potter may have owed Walton money from
(32:15):
a loan he was unable to pay, which would be
a strange a dynamic since Potter was the employer, an
employer borrowing money from employees. It's probably not unheard of,
but it's strange, Yeah it is. Fabian never officially mentioned
witchcraft or the occult in any of his reports at
(32:36):
that time, but twenty five years later he would write
about the case. I advise anyone who is tempted in
any time to venture into black magic, witchcraft, shamanism, call
it what you will, to remember Charles Walton and to
think of his death, which was clearly the ghastly climax
of a pagan rite. There is no stronger argument for
(32:56):
keeping as far away as possible from the villains with
their swords, incense and mumbo jumbo. It is prudence on
which your future peace of mind and even your life
could depend.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
What was he? Who was he getting that from? No idea? Yeah,
I mean it just doesn't fit what. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He was in the village for a while, so clearly
something struck him as there was something going on there.
I think he took his job too seriously to put
it in the report and get laughed at.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But he didn't put it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Now he said this twenty five years later, like he's
retired at this point, it's just him speaking his mind,
so he must well, I got one more detail here?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Did he write a book?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Local folklore holds that black dogs.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Are a harbinger, harbinger harbinger, right, you're asking me.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Yes, harbinger of death.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It's said after Walton's death such a black dog was
found hanging almost in the exact spot where his body
was found. Fabian reported that during his investigation on me
and Hill me on Hill, he saw a black dog
go running past him. A few minutes Slater, a young
boy came walking up from the same direction, and he
asked the boy if he was looking for his dog.
When the boy asked him what color the dog was,
(34:08):
and he told the boy it was black, the child
screamed and sprinted off in the opposite direction. Mm hmm uh,
so that's that's the word. So huh.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
No answer about who it was, I mean, it was.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It seems likely.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Why though? Was it the was it the witchcraft.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Or you know, magic? We'll never know how it was.
The money, A lot of that stuff is rumors. It's
just a rumor that he owed him money. Nobody knows
that for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Right, I mean, was it a rumor that he did
all this witchcraft or did he definitely do this witchcraft?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I think he was in the something. I doubt it
was witchcraft that they said, like, you know, crystals and
ship and he was basically doing I don't know, but
it doesn't sound like he was up to anything malevolent, right.
He was good with animals, he had charmed, not the
did he used the word crystals charms, worked with charms
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know. To us, that's crystals. I don't know
what else.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Nineteen forties zo we said, it's different vibes ablute. They
probably just didn't like what They didn't not stand what
he was up to, so they didn't like it. Rural
Pennsylvania in the nineteen twenties was still steeped in the
folk traditions of the German and Dutch immigrants who largely
populated the region. Folk magic was still regularly practiced in
the region. Pow hours, unrelated to the Native American ceremonial practice,
(35:24):
performed magic. Religious folk healing provided cures and relief from illness,
protection from evil, and the removal of hexes and curses.
They would use charms, amulets, prayers, and incantations. The Bible
for powours was Long Lost Friend, a book by John
George Hoeman. On the opposite end of the spectrum from
(35:48):
the powours was black magic or witchcraft. They didn't help others,
but tormented their neighbors, using supernatural powers to do their bidding.
These people were sometimes referred to as he doctors. To
the outside observer, it was difficult to decipher the two,
but in this region at the time, most people believed
all of it to be very real. John Blimeyer had
(36:11):
been born in York County, Pennsylvania, in eighteen ninety five.
Those who knew him described him as a simple man
who had been born into a family of pow wowurs.
He himself had a reputation as a successful healer from
an early age, but as he grew older, he began
to feel that there was a shadow hanging over him.
He began to experience a run of bad luck and
(36:33):
bad health that followed him wherever he went. He was
plagued with near constant headaches. He became convinced that a
hex had been placed on him. One night, as he
lied in bed contemplating his plight, he heard an owl
hoot seven times just outside his window. That was the answer.
His great grandfather, Jacob had been a powerful powwowur as
(36:55):
well as being the seventh son of a seventh son.
He figured he couldn't fight bad against a ghost, so
he decided to move away from his ancestral home, and
his luck did improve for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It's funny what sets him off? An hour outside of
the windows, time to be feet gotta go.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
And you're actually sitting there counting ootes. Yeah, that was
up five. Gotta wait for.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Gonna be sure, I'm gonna wait. He met a young
woman named Lily and they were married. In addition to
his folk healing, he found employment doing a variety of
odd jobs. Then his first child died within a few
weeks of birth. His second lived only a couple days.
His behavior became odd and threatening, and Lily successfully convinced
(37:41):
a judge to have him committed to an insane asylum.
While he was there, Lily obtained a divorce and moved away.
The doctors determined that he was obsessed with witches and
curses and needed treatment, but forty eight days into his hospitalization,
he simply walked out the front door and left no
one bothered looking for him. He went to over twenty
(38:03):
witches to try and determine who had hexed him. To
successfully remove a hex, you need to know who had
placed the hecks on you to begin with. None of
them could help him. While working at a cigar factory,
he met two other men who believed they too had
been hext. Fourteen year old John Curry was from an
abusive home and believed a malevolent force was the cause
(38:23):
of troubles at home. You know, it's a different time.
He's working on a factory with a fourteen years Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
No, I was just thinking the whole They think everything's
a hex too. You know, women don't like me. I'm
obviously been hext. It can't be my shitty personality. I
missed two weeks of work and they fucking fight. Yeah,
I've been he It's a god damn it. I'm starting
to think maybe I've been.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Milton Hess ran a successful dairy farm with his wife Alice,
but two years previously their crops began to die off.
His cow stopped producing milk, and they're saving had dwindled away.
The stories of the other men reinforced to Blimeyre that
a hex was indeed the source of his troubles. He
went to see a powerful pow hour, ninety something year
(39:10):
old Nellie Nole, the River Witch of Marietta. When he
asked the identity of his hexer, Noel placed a dollar
bill inside his hand. When she removed the bill, he
looked into the palm of his hand, where he saw
an image of Nelson raemyr Remyre I think as you
say it himself was an old Powour and was known
to Blimeyer. When he was five years old, he had
(39:33):
been gravely ill. His grandfather and father had brought him
to Remyer, who had cured him. Noel was adamant though
that Remyre was his hexer, and he had also a
hext Curry and Hess as well. She did provide a
way for the men to remove their hexes. They needed
to get their hands on Remeyer's copy of Long Lost
Friend as well as the lock of his hair. Both
(39:55):
items were to be then be buried together six feet underground.
On November twenty sixth, nineteen twenty eight, Blimeyre and Hasse
went to Remeyer's house, where they asked if they could
have a few minutes of his time. Despite being in
his sixties, The two men were in r of Remeyer's
size and physical strength. They asked him multiple questions about
(40:17):
magic and powwowing, but never actually told him why they
were there. It became late and Reemyer was cordial enough
to invite them to stay as he slept. The two
scoured his house for the book, but they couldn't find it.
They debated on cutting off some of his hair, but
decided he was just too big for them to handle,
so they left. So Blimeyer returns the next day with
(40:41):
fourteen year old Curry in Hesse's eighteen year old son
Wilbert for backup. The three men brought along ropes and sticks.
They demanded that Remyer hand over his spell book, which
he refused. Exactly what happened next differs according to which
man told the story, but the three men tackled Remyre
in attempt to tie his legs. He was beaten and
(41:02):
then strangled to death. The three men took all the
money they found in the house and douse the body
and the house and kerosene. And some versions of the
story they found the book. In most they did not,
but whichever case the book was left behind, if they
did find it, to burn up in the fire.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah. I think it's funny. It's like there was the
two dudes there. They leave, like, we need backup. We
need to go get a fourteen year old boy. Yeah,
this guy looks formidable. We're gonna need us a teenager
to come in there and help us rough him up.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, so that the next day when he comes back,
one of the guys of his ACKs didn't come back.
He sent his eighteen year old son.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, you get an eighteen year old son, a fourteen
year old I mean, I know the guys. This is
in the twenties. I imagine sixties was pretty old for
the twenties.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, yeah, this is nineteen twenty eight. Yeah, so they
set everything on fire. So obviously his hair is gonna burn,
and the book would burn so and there are if
it's burning up, it's still as good as bearing it,
and that the hex will be lifted. When they departed,
the body in the house were fully engulfed in flames,
but after they departed, the fire mysteriously went out. The
(42:13):
evidence was not destroyed. The body was found the following
day when neighbors noticed that the farm animals had not
been fed. Alice Remyer. Nelson's ex wife was able to
tell police that the men had mistakenly shown up to
her house first looking for him. She then told them
where Nelson actually lived. The three men were arrested.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
That was probably bad. If you're going to commit a crime,
go somewhere first. Hey, we're looking for this guy, we're
looking to kill.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
How suspicious is that he turns up dead? And these
clowns were at her house the night before. She isn't
gonna be like, oh, by the way, not the brightest
bulbs those guys. So the three men were arrested and
placed on trial, and the famous Hex Murder of York
County received huge media coverage. Most Americans were shocked that
(43:02):
such traditions, practices, and belief in magic still existed. Hess
received ten years in prison, while Blimeier and Curry received
life sentences. All three were eventually paroled and went on
to live their lives without further run ins with the law.
The press coverage of the event caused a sort of
a hex panic, similar to the Satanic panic of the
(43:24):
nineteen eighties, where the occult was found in the most
benign events and every crime or death was attributed to evil.
State authorities launched a campaign against powwowurs Ian Hex's doctors,
arresting and prosecuting them for practicing medicine without a license.
Those that continue to practice went underground, and the practice
(43:44):
largely died out, although some of the healers do remain today.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, it's funny because that case sounded like it
was from like one hundred years before. It didn't sound
like something that was happening in the nineteen twenties. You know,
all these people believe in hexes.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And then when the story came out, a lot of
people were shocked that that stuff still existed or still happened.
But you know, living in not means like a real
rural state, but even in Maine you'll find the really
rural versus the urban areas. It's completely different. That's a
lot of thoughts and opinions.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And you know that's true, and like you just mentioned,
it was it wasn't that long ago. The Satanic panic
that was a real thing though they really believed that ship.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah so yeah, yeah, so the so the first case
though the witch Elm I don't think it had anything
to do with the occulton just a my opinion either.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
Charles Walton.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I think probably did, and the last one obviously did.
There's no question to it.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Right, So yeah, I would say the same. The witch
Elm was really That one really throws me because they
just can't understand. I don't think she I don't think
she fell into the tree or anything like that. It
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Any explanation doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
None of them, though. I mean, it's I don't know
why you went bury. I guess digging holes are hardy lazy. Yeah,
digging the hole is a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
If it was, if it was the two drunk guys,
they're not gonna dig now the hell they knew there
was an empty witch Elm.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, I mean, by sure happenstance, I don't know. That
seems unlikely. Said that you sit in the.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
Car of the body.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I'm just gonna climb trees untill I find one that's.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
All over it. So happens, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Oh, those are great, man, I loved it.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Guys, Well we are going to head over to the
fire pit. We will catch you over there.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I said, nosmit is I can't.
Speaker 6 (45:38):
Try to fire.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Before we get started. Guys, if you have a story
you'd like to tell uh, you can send it to
Beyond the Shadows two o seven at gmail dot com
or send it to any of our socials. If you've
sent one in to us, you will be getting to
it and we could use more, So please get those
stories into us. It doesn't have to be paranormal, sure,
it can be just anything you'd talk about with your
friends around the fire pit. This one here comes to
(46:11):
us from Ashley from Wisconsin. Thank you for sending in Ashley,
and here we go.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Hello shadow people, do I have a story for you?
I'm not gifted in storytelling, so bear with me. But
here we go. So around three years ago I was
graage sealing in my city and it happened upon a
house kind of on the outskirts of town, and as
(46:40):
I approached it, immediately noticed a beautiful Norfolk pine. This
is like a potted pine tree. It has swooping branches
and long strings of needles hanging off, very beautiful. It
was like five feet tall and it was for forty dollars.
So I immediately snatched it and brought it home, and
I quickly learned that these are very high maintenance plants.
(47:03):
They need the perfect amount of humidity and light to thrive,
and in my small house with not a ton of
natural light, it quickly started to fall apart, as in
needles falling off every day, full branches falling off, and
(47:24):
being it was such a huge tree, it was like
a two year struggle of constantly cleaning up and trying
to figure out what to do and how to help it.
And I finally gave up and it ended up outside
on my porch where it slowly faded away and died.
(47:45):
So fast forward to this summer. A few weeks ago,
I was outcrash sailing again in my city and I
happened upon the same house, and as I approached, I
saw a man sitting behind the counter, and I asked him, Hey,
do you remember a norful pine that you sold me
three years ago? I'm pretty sure I bought it from
(48:09):
this house. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, how's the
tree doing? And matter of factly, I just said it died.
He seems a little taken aback, and he backtracks and says,
I think you have the wrong house. Yeah, yeah, you
have the wrong house, and he stands up and he
(48:30):
just walks inside, and I'm kind of left standing in
their garage a little confused and doubting myself a little bit.
But no, no, no, it was this house. His wife
comes out a few minutes later, and I approached her
with the same question. Do you remember a Norfolk pine
that I bought from you guys around three years ago? Oh?
(48:54):
The Norfolk pine? Of course I remember that tree.
Speaker 8 (48:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
You know my husband he loved that tree. He raised
that tree from when I was about two inches high.
He put his heart and soul into that tree, and
he told me that the day that that tree died
would be the tree the day that he died.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
How's the tree doing? I stammer, It's okay. I didn't
have the heart to tell her, even though I had
just told him that it had died. And I had
to question myself why I felt it so necessary to
(49:38):
tell these people that the plant had died?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Am I the grim Reaper? Am I I just deliver
the news of death? And for three years of this
man hoping he never had to hear or know of
this plant ever. Again. Can't be a coincidence, right, thank
you shadow people?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
So what I get from that is that you are
definitely the grim rey Berg for sure. You know, it's funny.
I was listening to this story in the car tonight.
I was going through the fire pits, and I had
your son with me. Yeah, and he was playing the
game on the iPad and he you know, you could
just tell he was kind of listening, and all of
(50:22):
a sudden, I hear him go, what huh?
Speaker 5 (50:28):
Nah, So the dude never came back.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, that's no doubt to tell you. That's something weird
going on there, for sure.
Speaker 5 (50:39):
Yeah, but he was wrong.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
So he said the day the tree dies the day
I die. But by the time she told him the
tree died, that the tree has been dead for a while.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, that's wrong. He should be all right, But why
did that? That is quite the coincidence that you come
across the same house and you just so happened to
want to tell him. Yeah you know that.
Speaker 5 (50:56):
Yeah, it's a good story, that really was.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And yeah, you she says she wasn't a storyteller. You
could tell she's a storyteller. I could tell. She paused
for dramatic effect.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
She sucked up a lot less than we do.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah, right, that's not hard. That's not hard at all. Now,
great story. We appreciate you sending that in Ashley ash
Ashley right, yes, and guys, get those stories into us
and we're glad to be back. Hopefully we won't have
to take another break. Ryan wanted to let you know.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yeah, we time wasn't We didn't have a bunnets of
time this week, so we actually had a record in
a couple of little segments here when we had the
available time. So hopefully it doesn't come out choppy. If
it does come out a little choppy, that's the reason.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, we're still we still got some events and stuff
going on with everything, so.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Next week we should be back to moment. Hopefully this
one comes out smooth. We're just kind of giving you
a heads up. If it's a little weird, that's that's
gonna be why.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
But if it's a little wonky, that's Ryan, that's my thing. Yeah, right,
that's my thing. We're trying to steal my thing. Any guys,
we appreciate everything. We appreciate, like I said, all the
condolences and everything that you sent. It was amazing, and
we'll try to get back on track now and get
everything back to the way it was, and get those
(52:10):
stories into us and we will catch you in the
next one later, Guess.
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