Ep. 147 The Impossible Murder: Julia Wallace

In 1931 a murder occured in England that has been called the impossible murder. A woman was found dead inside a locked house with her husband miles away. He couldn't have done it, could he? Perhaps not. But then again, could anyone else have done it either? Join us as we look back on this baffling mystery. 

• Julia Wallace murder
• William Herbert Wallace
• Liverpool murder case
• Unsolved murders
• True crime
• 1930s crime
• Historic murder case
• Cold case
• British true crime
• Mystery murder
• Criminal investigation
• Legal drama
• Police procedural
• Famous unsolved cases
• Wallace case
• English crime history
• True crime podcast
• Suspicious death
• Murder mystery
• Crime investigation

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, join us as we delve into our favorite
dark tales and paranormal mysteries.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Venture with us beyond the safe places that exist in daylight.
As we go Beyond the Shadows, true crime, paranormal hauntings, UFOs,
cryptids and unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories, past lives, reincarnation and
all the like are.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Just a few of the topics that we will tackle.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
If it haunts your fucking dreams, then it will be
on our show.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Do you know what the most in the world is?

Speaker 4 (00:42):
On the shuttles where you found me at you can't
see me in the deepest blacks when your heart starbus
and then you see their cracks, all these creepy things
that you why a track for the defense be where
the actions act. So this enough you want it, UFOs,
all them ghosts. We got everything that you want.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
It won't do you know what the thing in the
world is?

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, guys, welcome back to episode on Beyond the Shadows.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Welcome back Shadow Family, and Happy Birthday America.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yes, Happy Birthday America.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
And we're actually.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, we were running behind because we wanted to be patriotic.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's why we do. That's our last last minute, just
for you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, for sure. And a while ago we said that
we had gotten a bunch of reviews and stuff and
we never mentioned the names, and we'd like to mention
you put the effort out there. We like to have
at least mention your name.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I always like to give you guys a show.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
So we're going back a little ways. But we've got
some really good reviews from you guys over these last
few months, and we wanted to give you guys props.
We got Midnight Rider three seventy nine, her self gave
us a nice review. C. Hayes five five nine. We
appreciate your review. Got Pulse five to two one, going

(02:10):
postal mail gave us a nice review. Angi seven eight
two five up In eighty nine, Tigers to zero six
five seven, rave Man nineteen ninety one, another great review
Brooksy three thousand and then we've got the latest ones

(02:32):
is from k Boston zero two two one, and then
we've got another one coming from France. I just lost
it and that one was from ah, shoot, what was
the name on that? You know? It stew a wine
flu stue wine flu stew Yes. Uh, that one doesn't

(02:55):
sit with the other ones because it came from France,
so I can't just look at it on the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, one flu Stew has giving us multiple comments on
Spotify as well, which are really nice.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
We appreciate and we appreciate because if you did that everything,
If you did that, you took the time to go
from you took the time to come over to Apple
and rate us. If you're listening on Spotify, you went
to two different platforms. We appreciate the effort. We really do.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Appreciate the effort all of you guys.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
All you guys have been absolutely fantastic. We appreciate you
commenting more than you'll know.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's amazing, Absolutely, it really is. We can't thank you enough.
So grateful, guys. It means so much to us. Like
Scott always says, it's about the algorithm, the amount of comments,
the amount of reviews, everything. It It just kind of
pushes us out there further to a bigger audience and
it's just a bigger, bigger Shadow family and it's more
more fire pit potential.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think here in the US we've got
like ninety four Apple reviews. If you guys could push
us over one hundred, where you count the Spotify and
all the Apple we're well over three hundred. But right
here in the US, we're only sitting at ninety four. Guys,
help us out, you can push us on. So Ryan,

(04:08):
you get a question here. I was gonna read for you.
It's from Matt says, Hey, how's it going. I hope
all is well. My name is Matt. I'm a truck
driver from Louisiana. I get another truck driver. Okay, we
love our truck drivers. I've been subscrib subscribed and listening
to the podcast and it's the very beginning. I absolutely
love it. It's very entertaining. It's my go to podcast

(04:30):
every week. I've been meaning to ask a question for Ryan.
When I first heard the podcast, I recognize Ryan's voice.
I could have sworn. I followed the YouTube channel hosted
by Ryan, a channel that covers stories of paranormal, unsolved mysteries,
and true crime, same topics as Beyond the Shadows. When
I look for the channel again, it was gone from

(04:52):
my subscriptions. Maybe it was deleted, or maybe it's something
like the Mendela effect or something. Lol. I'm just curre
yes looking forward to the next episode. Have a great day.
So were you moonlighting on me?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Man? No, I don't know what you were listening to, Matt.
I appreciate the question. I did not have a YouTube channel.
I've the only thing I've ever done social media wise.
I do not have a Facebook account, I don't have Instagram,
I don't do any of that. The podcast is the
only place I exist on social media. What's it's not
social media? But you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah, No,

(05:27):
that wasn't.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
That may be Mendela effect. Back when Ryan could work
on computer, something definitely changed.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I'm what, who does the mix of that?

Speaker 1 (05:38):
He's got nothing here and he's like, I have no
footprint on the computer at all. And he's a producer.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I didn't say that. I didn't say no, whatever he's asking,
it wasn't me.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, No, it wasn't. It wasn't Ryan. Uh, just someone
who sounds like him, I guess.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
So, yeah, so that guy sounds pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
He's the best. So I think that's all I got
for housekeeping right now. What do you got going on?
Tom So?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
In the news, TSA recently put forth a little public
service announcement to weary travelers. The cocaine you might be
smuggling isn't the only thing that might set off their scanners.
It could be your sweating junk. Swamp cross as it's
so appetizingly known, sets off like fifteen percent of detected anomalies.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
How embarrassing is that shit? A lot?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Really, it's super embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's like, nope, I'm just dirty smuggling, I'm smuggling.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm just gross, just disgusting. So the scanners don't only
pick up metal, but also excessive moisture, so nothing could
ruin your first romantic getaway like that. Babe, are you smuggling?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
No?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, no, I just I got gross ball. I got grossball.
That's it, swampy, don't don't make it weird.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, that's so. Yeah. If you howl down, yeah, get
some wet wipes, hit the bathroom on your way your.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Way into the airport, that would be so.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh man, that would be the world in the one
like beeps over your junk.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
What do you get down there? Well, check it out,
Buy me a drink.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
It's like the upper glades down there.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
We get a cuddle. We get a cuddle first, and
then then I'll show you what I got. So a
man from Saganaw County, Michigan recently absconded from the Saganaw
County Residential Probation Center. Thirty one year old Quintin Allen
just simply walked away from the center on June twenty
first without permission, and he had no further contact with him.

(07:54):
On Friday, June twenty seventh, at about five thirty pm,
he walked into a virtual bank branch a half hour
after closing, looking to cash a check. The bank does
not take walkins and only works by appointment. The check
turned out to be fake, and when the employee told
him she could not help him, he attacked her with
a sharp object of some sort. Numerous police agencies responded

(08:18):
and erected a perimeter while they They tried to contact him,
but he told them he was not coming out. He
told police he wanted the I Go Fego Fago red pop,
which I'm not familiar with, but it turns out all
I'm it's a soda of some sort of right.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Fago is like the official soda of the Juggalos. You
know who. The Juggalos are insane clown posse their fan
Oh yeah, the fan group, the Juggalos. They were huge
into fago. It's all over there, everything that they do,
all the different types of fago.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
So see, uh, he's in st cling insane clown posse.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, no, he's probably a fan. He's asking for that.
They're like the only people in the world to drink faga. Yeah.
I only know it because my son was into hip
hop and.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Uh, I love my soda. But I've never you know,
I've never had it. It might be from not in
a region we're not you know, Oh.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
It's not it's not like not local. No, it's not moxy.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
It shouldn't be box. He shouldn't even be legal.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
That's a main soda, guys.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Ah, if you want to call it that.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, we mentioned it before. It's made from diesel field.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So when police actually send an a drone to deliver
the soda, Alan walks over to the window to get it,
and the police snipers then take their shot.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
This dude is taken out because he just had to
have a soda.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
I know, we're not gonna laugh at anybody dying boic
to think that you're in the middle of a hostage
situation and you think they're just gonna send you a
beverage like oh shit, a.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Soda and all the sodas he could have got. He
got a fago.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
But he walks over to the window and in full view,
and that's that's when they take their shot. The female
was taken to the hospital and released that same night,
and Alan died of his injury.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
This dude is definitely juggle though for sure.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I guess, I don't know. I'm not familiar with it.
I'm not familiar with that. I've never even heard of
the soda. But it's gonna be. It's gonna be one
fucking good. I can tell you that the soda company
could probably use that to their advantage by telling this
it's worth dying.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Image commercial die just run a loop of that.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I guess, I don't know. Uh So, Florida put a
new quote super speeder law into effect recently that makes
success the speeding of more excuse me, a more serious
crime with harsher punishments. The threshold is doing at least
fifty miles an hour over the post to speed limit,
or doing over one hundred miles an hour in a

(10:42):
way that threatens people were probably around here, don't. I
don't know how you can possibly do over one hundred
miles an hour without threatening people around you. No, you
definitely are, But Florida makes a distinction that you can
do that without being dangerous. I don't know. So anyway,
apparently Florida's speeding laws were pretty lax from what I've
in the article before this, so they wanted to make

(11:03):
a more serious thing. So the new penalties took effect
on July first. You want to know how's it took
them to nab their first defender.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I'm guessing three minutes into.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
The twotest good Get and I didn't read this good Get.

Speaker 5 (11:20):
No, he did not.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Scott did not know the story was coming. Two minutes
after the law took effect, in Orange County, officer arrested
a driver for doing over one hundred miles an hour.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
The new penalties are up to thirty days in jail,
in five hundred dollars in fines.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
You know. That's It's a thing where these people go
around and they like race on the it's happening around here,
and they got like clubs where they come out and
everything happened right on the street out here.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Street race.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, there's street race, like right out front of our house.
We are country I mean I live in close to town,
but Maine is close to town, and Maine.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Is Oh no, we're very country and we'll fire removed
from a lot of stuff. But still doing one hundred
miles an hour on these roads. Its fucking insane. Oh yeah,
they went down this road, absolutely insane. Uh my wife
heard them out there and then the cops were chasing them.
But they're so fast and there's so many of them
they can't catch them.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know. It's like a uh they're out of New Hampshire. Yeah,
like we six oh three boys or something like that.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Our town, on its best day, has three different cruises.
If you've got twelve cars going off in different directions,
they can grab three of them.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yes, we have three cruisers. They're not all running at
the same time. I'd be lucky maybe on occasion. But yeah,
so good good. I mean I drove fast when I
was a kid, but now I'm old man. Dude that
goes so slow. I was bad.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, when I was in high school criminal speeding, which
I did get caught for, was fright, was thirty miles
an hour over. Now all of a sudden, they're our
allowing fifty miles an hour and Florida sounds like it's
really lax and speeding.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
But didn't you get busted like right near here?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
It was? It was ten miles away. It was questionable
at the best. I was framed.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
They framed your picture the wall.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
It was in this general ball car and I get
we're gonna have to call your dad. I was like,
you beat me with a cane, but do not call
my fucking dad. Do what you get a Jamie hose,
break my knee?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Cat?

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Do not call? Yeah, they did both. They called my dad.
That was the end of my high school career, basically.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
No doubt. Oh all right, papall what do you got
to ours today?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Uh? So we're gonna do another old crime, which you
guys know I love doing. So this one is about
the impossible murder. Uh And you guys that listen to
true crime podcast, you've almost certainly heard this one. But uh,
it's so good. I couldn't leave it alone. And I
always try to bring a couple of new tidbits of information,
So hopefully if you have heard this one before, I

(13:59):
can at least introduce something you haven't heard on the
case before.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
So you usually do that.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I can't leave this one alone. It's just too good.
So if you haven't heard this one, this one's this
one's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 5 (14:10):
Awes.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
This is called the impossible murder.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
All right, looking forward, we catch you guys over there. Well, guys,
do you know what the world is?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
One of the most perplexing murders in history took place
in Liverpool, England, ninety four years ago. William Herbert Wallace
was born on August twenty ninth, eighteen seventy eight, in Milam, Cumberland.
He was the youngest of three children born to Benjamin
and Marjorie Wallace. He left school at the age of

(14:50):
fourteen and took a job as a draper's assistant in Lancashire.
Upon finishing his apprenticeship, he remained with the company for
fifteen years, even working in India for a time. In
nineteen oh seven, a kidney problem forced him to resign
his position and returned to England, where his left kidney

(15:12):
was removed in nineteen oh seven. At Guy's Hospital.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
They're doing surgery back in nineteen year seven.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, they plucked, they just clubbed you over there.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Anesthesia they opened you up and oh this two of them,
let's just caere into this one.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Just drink a shitload, we'll cut you real quick. So
he then took a position working as an election agent
for the Liberal Party in Harrogate, where he met Julia
Dennis in nineteen fourteen. It was widely believed back then
that Julia and William were the same age, but it

(15:48):
is now believed that she was actually seventeen years older
than he was. This is impossible to say for sure
because researchers aren't entirely sure about her background, possible due
to a mix up in her paperwork, or probably because
of a deliberate lie on her part at some point
in her past. It is believed, however, that she came

(16:11):
from French origins, and that her parents were veterinarians, William
George Dennis and Amy Dennis. She was born in eighteen
sixty one and grew up in North Yorkshire. She was
one of seven children, but she became an orphan at
the age of fourteen, and only three of her siblings

(16:31):
survived to adulthood. She had been raised to be a governess,
which is similar to a nanny, except instead of the
physical care of the children, a governess takes care of
their educational needs. She was well suited to this role,
being quite intelligent and very talented in the arts. Julia

(16:51):
was an accomplished painter as well as a talented singer
and piano player. She also spoke fluent in French. William
Herbert and Julia Dennis were married in March of nineteen fourteen.
Shortly after the outbreak of World War One. William's position
of an election agent and harrogate was discontinued and he
was once again looking for work. His father helped him

(17:15):
secure a position as a collection agent with the Prudential
Assurance Company in Liverpool. The Wallaces moved there in nineteen
fifteen and settled in the Anfield district at twenty nine
Wolverton Street. William worked as a collections agent exclusively in
the nearby Clubmore district, and he supplemented his income by

(17:36):
lecturing on chemistry at Liverpool Technical College. William and Julia
seem to have lived a largely unremarkable life. Reports about
their personalities and their marriage are varied. Some say she
was quite quiet and timid, while others say she was
prideful and strange. Generally, people seem to have liked them both,

(17:58):
and they largely kept to them. William pursued his hobbies
of chemistry, botany, chess and philosophy, while Julia busied herself
with her music and she was active in the church.
They would sometimes entertain visitors to their house with musical concerts,
Julia being the accomplished pianist, accompanied by William, an amateur

(18:21):
on the violin. One of the most frequent visitors of
their house was William's brother Joseph, along with his wife
Amy and his son Edwin. Joseph had also worked abroad
and had recently decided to return to England, and they
settled only a short distance away. William was largely an
introverted man, so his brother's return, along with his friend

(18:46):
James Caird Card a few streets away, made up the
bulk of his social circle. William Herbert Wallace also had
a passion for playing chess. He was a member of
the Liverpool Central ch Chess Club, located in the City
Cafe on North John Street. The club regularly met there

(19:07):
on Monday nights. Fellow players described Wallace as being a
very passionate chess player, albeit a not incredibly talented one.
Although he was a member, he hadn't actually played a
game there in about two months. The club posted scheduled
matches ahead of time, and Wallace had missed several in
recent months. On Monday, January nineteenth, nineteen thirty one, he

(19:30):
was once again scheduled to play a match. This time
he would be playing against f C. Chandler according to
the schedule. Wallace wasn't sure that he would be able
to attend this match either, as his wife had bronchitis
and he himself was just getting over a particularly nasty
flu which had swept across the city, but his wife

(19:51):
insisted she was okay and told him to go. About
fifteen minutes before Wallace arrives at the Chess Club, a
phone call comes in for him, and the call was
taken by waitress Gladys Harley of the City Cafe. She
frequently waited upon the members of the chess Club during
their meetings, and would later state that up to one

(20:12):
hundred members would meet on some nights. She saw Wallace
often enough to recognize his face, but did not really
know him, not even his name. The caller asked if
he had the sight of the City Chess Club, when
Harley told him that he did. Indeed, the caller asked
her to speak with William Herbert Wallace. Harley wasn't sure

(20:33):
if he was there, so she went off to find
the Chess Club captain, Samuel O. Beattie. When Beatty told
her that Wallace had not yet arrived, she requested that
he go and speak to the man on the phone,
as she was too busy. When Beatty tells the man
that if Wallace is in fact coming this week, he
should be there shortly, he encourages the man to then

(20:54):
phone back shortly. The man says he can't as it's
his daughter's twenty first birth, so he then requests that
request that Beatty deliver a message to Wallace when he
does arrive. So when Wallace shows up, he's told by
Beattie that a man named R. M Qualtro called shortly

(21:14):
before and wished to see him about business the following
night at seven thirty pm.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I'm just trying to keep all this straight. It's a lot,
there's a lot coming in.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yes, So the caller states that he could be found
at twenty five Menlo Gardens East in Mossley Hill.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Get any questions, No, I'm just trying to remember stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Go ahead and now's the time. Now's the time to ask,
because it ain't it ain't gonna get better.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
A little breakdown on what's happened so far.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
So, him and his wife live a quiet life, right,
very quiet life. He plays chess occasionally, so he's on
his way to the chess club. One night a call
comes in, which is very unusual. No, not at all,
so the caller asked to speak to him. He's not
yet there. The chess club club captain takes the message.

(22:07):
The caller is asking Wallace. So they don't have a
home phone. It's nineteen thirty one, they don't have a
home phone. So the guy calls it Matthew chess club
and says, I need to speak to him about business.
Could he possibly meet me at so so addressed the
next night. That's basically worried. Okay, Wallace hasn't gotten there yet,

(22:27):
he hasn't got the message.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
So Wallace states that he doesn't know the name or
the address, but Beattie assures him that he had the
man spell out both his name and the address, and
he is certain that the information is correct. Wallace wasn't
sure about keeping the strange appointment, but it was the depression,
and he couldn't risk on missing out on a potential client,

(22:55):
so he decided it was an appointment that he must keep.
He could only assume that this mysterious man might want
to purchase some sort of coming of age endowment policy
for his daughter, which could potentially result in a sizeable commission,
So he played out his chest match that night and
then headed home. Julia was distraught when he returned home,

(23:15):
as her beloved cat Puss had run off and had
not returned, but otherwise she was feeling a bit better.
So William left his home the following night at perhaps
six forty five pm, and he caught the nearest tram
to his house at a little before seven. He had
worked for Prudential in the capacity of a collections agent

(23:37):
for quite some time, and he was very familiar with
most of the city, but he had never heard of
Menlov Gardens East as such. After transferring to the second tram,
he asked both the conductor and the ticket agent several
times about the location he was seeking and to please
advise him as to when he should disembark. Neither man

(24:00):
was familiar with the street, but advised him it was
likely near Menlov Gardens East, excuse me, west, north or south,
or perhaps it was just off Menlove Avenue.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
He named every direction it's close to any one of these,
and the dude's cat's names pussy all right, I'm like
seven years old.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
He named me a pussy puss.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Sorry, getting pussy.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Puss ran off, So they both advised him he should
transfer on Penny Lane and continue from there to Menlove
Avenue Man Love Yeah Avenue to begin his search. They
both recalled that Wallace seemed irritated that they couldn't help
him more with the directions, and he reminded them more

(24:53):
than once to make sure they announced Penny Lane so
that he wouldn't miss it. William and Juliet visited cald
Park frequently to see the roses, and this ran parallel
to Menlove Avenue, so William couldn't fathom how he had
never heard of this particular street if it was so closed.
There was, however, a lot of new houses and new

(25:14):
roads being built during this period, so it was entirely
plausible that this was simply a new road that he
had yet to visit. So when he finally got off
the tram, he first asked several people on the street
for help, but no one knew where Menlove Gardens East
was no one could help. He went to a nearby
newsstand and checked a map, but he couldn't find it.

(25:38):
The woman working the newsstand, Lily Pinches, also couldn't help.
He walked over to a police officer and related the
whole story of R. M Qualtro, the phone call, the appointment,
the address, and the police officer also had no knowledge
of the street. He finally showed up at twenty five

(26:00):
men Looave Gardens West, just in case the message had
been written down incorrectly, but the people there had no
idea what he was talking about.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
How frustrating would it be back then, you're just looking
for an address.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, because you don't have Google Maps and text to Yeah,
nobody has a house phone. Even he had to take
the phone call at the chess club. You know, it'd
be very infuriating. This is a guy that knows the city,
but he cannot find this address, and he's talking to

(26:32):
people that know the city. He was talking to a
beat cop, like near this address, so the guy should
know the fucking road, even if it's a new road.
And the cop is like I do not know this address.
I can't help you. So nobody knew what he was
talking about. After asking a few more random strangers, he
had to accept the inevitable men Looave Gardens East simply

(26:54):
did not exist, and he had been sent on a
wild goose chase. Sounds right in all, He had searched
the district for about forty five minutes before he boarded
a tram to take him back home, so it was
about quarter of nine when he arrived back home to
twenty nine Wolverton Street. The Johnstons, the Wallace's neighbors, were

(27:16):
just heading out for an evening when they witnessed the
distraught looking William standing in the back alley. When they
approached him and asked him what was wrong, he told
them that he was having trouble getting back into his house.
His key wasn't able to open either the front door
or the back. He asked them if they had heard
anything strange that night, and they told him that they hadn't.

(27:38):
The Johnston's also had a spare key to the Wallace home,
so they offered to go back and fetch theirs. When
William decided to try the back door just one more
time she wouldn't be out. She has such a terrible cold,
William muttered as he tried the lock. Inexplicable. Inexplicably this
time it opened, had been locked from the inside, and

(28:02):
the front door had been bolted shut as well. The
Johnstons waited outside while William went inside to check things out.
The house lye in total darkness. He lit the gas
lamps and they were able to follow his progress through
the house by the lights coming on through the windows.
They could hear him calling out her name several times
from inside the house. William was gone for roughly two

(28:26):
minutes when he popped back into the back door with
a pale face and a terrified expression. Come and see
she has been killed. He was, unfortunately correct. Julia lay
on her stomach in the living room in front of
the gas fireplace. Much of the room was covered in blood,
including the seven foot high ceilings.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
It spattered the walls, the furniture, photographs, and several of
Julia's own paintings. Her skull was visibly smashed, and there
was even brain matter visible, so she was very dead,
very dead. She lay on a partially burned raincoat and
a large pool of blood. Had collected underneath her. It

(29:10):
was surprising that inside a room where such a violent
murder had obviously occurred, there seemed to be very little
sign of a struggle. None of the furniture was overturned
or even out of place. Robbery was suspected to be
the motive, as the locked cabinet where William kept the
money from his collections had been pried open. He claimed

(29:32):
that four pounds were missing, which would equate to about
twelve thousand dollars today if I didn't fuck up this equation,
which is possible. I did it at like three in
the morning last night, so I might have fucked.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
It's like almost three in the morning now.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yes, it's close. Julia's handbag still sat on the table
when it was wide open, with the contents visible, and
she had a decent amount of cash still inside that
had not be been taken, so that kind of argues
against the robbery motive. The bedroom appeared to have been searched,
according to police, it looked to be a half hearted

(30:10):
effort at best. Nothing else in the house was missing
other than William's collection money, that an iron bar and
a fireplace poker from the front parlor. Police assumed one
of those items who have been the murder weapon, but
neither was ever found. The police investigation into the murder

(30:30):
isn't looked upon glowingly by today's standards. A police strike
only twelve years earlier had led to a mass exodus
of experienced officers, and they were replaced by rookies much
less suited their roles. The forensic examination of Julia's body
was done by John McFall, and it was rudimentary at best.

(30:53):
He placed her time of death at eight o'clock. He
based his findings solely on the state of rigamortis. Today
we know that rigamortis is an extremely unreliable method for
determining the time of death, as a great many factors
can speed up or slow down the process. Despite the
inept investigation, a lot of factors began pointing the police

(31:15):
towards William himself as the murderer. When police asked around
at the chess club, no one could remember William having
ever received a phone call before. They found it suspicious
that he received one the night before the murderer, and
that that message gave him a reason to be away
from home. His presence at the chess club was not

(31:35):
regular enough for anyone to have been sure that he
was going to be there that night. When the call
to the chess club was traced, it was found to
have come from a payphone not more than four hundred
yards from the Wallace home. Williams chipped a trip to
the chess club that night would have had him passing
that payphone at roughly the same time that that call

(31:57):
came in. While William was riding the tram and searching
for the non existent address, he asked multiple people what
time it was if they knew the address, and to
tell him which road to take. It could well have
been a man trying to keep an appointment but not
knowing where to go, But in police's mind, it was
a man trying to make sure multiple people saw him

(32:20):
and remembered him later on as to give himself an album.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
That's what it sounds like to me. The whole thing
sounds like that to me.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
When William approached the policeman during his search for menlov
guard Ins East, he first asked the policeman what time
it was, even before he asked him for the directions
to police investigating the murder. It seemed like he was
trying hard to fix that time into his witness's mind.
Investigators also found Williams's ordeal with getting into his own

(32:50):
house suspect. He claimed to not be able to gain
entry to his house until the Johnsons showed up, and
then his keys suddenly worked. Perhaps his key really hadn't
worked beforehand, or perhaps he was waiting to enter the
house until he had witnesses handy. That's what the police thought.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
That's what Scott thinks.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Julia was known to be distrustful of strangers, so it's
extremely unlikely she would have opened the door to a stranger.
Whoever had killed her would have almost certainly had to
have had a key or have been very known to her.
The house was not ransacked, and the killer likely had
very limited time to commit the crime, so police believed

(33:33):
whoever had done it was very familiar with the layout
of the house. The amount of damage done to Julia
herself was also telling to police. She had been struck
almost eleven times in the head with a blunt object
that did great damage. It seemed to them to be
a crime of passion rather than a robbery gone wrong.

(33:55):
No one named R. M. Qualtro could be found but
the surname was not at all uncommon for the region.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
So when the.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Police theory William Wallace had called the chess club himself
the night before the murder, giving himself an ironclad reason
to be away from home. He then killed his wife
either right before he left for men of Gardens East
or right after getting home. While he was away, he
spoke to as many people as possible to ensure that

(34:24):
he was remembered as being away from home. Upon arriving home,
he did not enter the house until the Johnsons were
there to quote help him find the body. So to
police it was an open shutcase. But was it. William
could not have killed her at eight o'clock, as the
pathologist stated, because he definitely was not home, So the

(34:47):
police then changed the time of death to six pm.
So they moved it up two hours.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
But they're just basing enough.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
A rigamortar just a rigamortis, so they move it up
to six pm. But there's problems here too, so the
six pm timeline was also impossible. Two different people, including
the boy delivering milk, were one hundred percent positive that
they had seen Juliet alive as late as six forty
five pm, way after William had left home. Police experimented

(35:17):
with the times it would have taken to reach all
the trams that William was known to have used, and
they know with certainty that he could not have left
home any later than six forty nine pm and still
reach his tram in time. That would have given him
four minutes to have committed the gruesome murder and still
reached his destination. No one saw a drop of blood

(35:38):
on him despite the spatter, All of the crime scene
and the drains in the house were dry, so no
one had washed up recently. The police's theory to explain
this was that Wallace had killed his wife while naked,
wearing only the raincoat that was found under her body.
He then took off the raincoat, put on a suit,

(36:01):
and left the house. Even if the witnesses were slightly
off in their timeline, we can assume that William had
no more than ten minutes or so to have done it,
and this likely would have had him sprinting to the
tram station, despite the fact that he's at a kidney
removed and he was in ill health most of his life.
H Gladys Harley, who answered the phone to the cafe

(36:24):
that night, said that she did not recognize the voice,
but felt that it belonged to an old man. She
didn't know William personally well, but had spoken to him
several times and likely would have recognized his voice. Chess
Club president Samuel Beatty also spoke with the man that night,
and he had known Wallace very well for over a decade,

(36:45):
and he was one hundred percent positive that the voice
on the phone that night did not belong to William Wallace,
despite the many holes. Two weeks after the murder, William
Wallace was arrested for his wife's murder. The Prudential staff
union conducted a secret mock trial in London beforehand, and
they found him not guilty. It was then that they

(37:09):
decided to sponsor his defense in full, so his employers
covered his full defense bill because they had already done
a box trial. That doesn't happen these days, no, So
his trial began on April twenty second, nineteen thirty one.
The evidence was circumstantial, in the timeline unreliable, but nonetheless

(37:29):
he was found guilty and he was sentenced to hang.
The trial was very short. One witness in the courtroom
said what probably harmed Wallace at his trial. Was his
extraordinary composure. Like every other observer, I found enigmatic, his
seeming indifference to his surroundings, shock callousness, stoicism, confidence we

(37:53):
shall never know. The following month May nineteen thirty one,
the Court of Criminal Appeals made the unprecedented move of
throwing out the verdict. They stated, quote, it cannot be
supported having regard to the evidence. William Wallace was set free.
He went back to work for Prudential, but the public

(38:14):
opinion knew where he lived and worked, was largely against him.
People thought he was guilty.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Nothing. I'm just I think he's guilty.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
He moved to bram Bureau and took a job in
the company's main offices. His health deteriorated, and on February
twenty sixth nineteen thirty three, not even two full years
after his wife's death, he died of kidney disease. His
private diaries were examined after his death. They detail his
sadness at her loss and his questioning of whether he

(38:45):
would ever see her again in the afterlife. He also
questioned the public guilt of a former co worker, would
the same person come for him as well? He wondered.
The man in question was named Richard Gordon Perry. He
and Wallace had worked together in the past, with Perry
even doing some collecting for Wallace on his accounts while

(39:07):
William had been ill. Back in nineteen twenty eight, Wallace
knew that Perry had not paid out all of the
accounts he had collected, but for whatever reason, he had
not told his employers about the younger man's theory. Less
than a year later, Perry was gone from the company,
not fired per Se, but his father had been left

(39:27):
to pay his short falls, and he left her under
a big cloud of suspicion. At the time of the murder,
police had looked briefly at Perry as a suspect, but
he had an alibi both for the night of the
phone call and for the night of the murder. Years later,
his fiance at the time and his alibi, Lily Lloyd,

(39:49):
would admit that the alibi was false. He had claimed
to be at her house the night of the murder,
as he was most nights, but that night he had
been quote very late. In nineteen eighty one, a full
fifty years after the murder, a man named John Parks
add an important detail to the story. He worked at

(40:11):
a garage near the murder site, and on the very
night of the murder January twentieth, nineteen thirty one, Perry
had pulled in and asked that he used a high
pressure hose to wash down the car park. Saw a
bloody glove on the front seat, which Perry quickly snatched up,
saying that if police saw that, he would surely hang.

(40:31):
Perry was also on the short list of people that
Julio almost certainly would have opened the front door to.
He'd been over their house for tea on multiple times,
and having worked with Wallace, he certainly would have known
where the collection's money was kept. He could have quickly
navigated the house as police suspect that the killer did.

(40:52):
Perry was also part of an acting troop, and they
happened to have their meetings at the exact same location
as Wallace's chess club, so he could have easily spotted
the schedule for all upcoming chess matches as they were
posted at the cafe well ahead of time.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Did I jump to conclusions? I feel like I may have,
but I still have a and that still thought.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
And thus he would have known that how Wallace was
due to be away from home at that night, and
he was very known to be fond of making prank
phone calls and using funny voices. No one was ever
charged with the murder of Julia Wallace after her husband
was set free, and almost one hundred years later, we
will likely never have an answer on this one. There's

(41:37):
just enough evidence to push you in whatever direction you want.
The phone call being made right next to the house
could easily have been the husband, or could have just
been easily someone trying to make it look like the husband.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
You know, what are the odds they worked together?

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Maybe he really was locked out of the house, or
maybe he was waiting for witnesses. You know, his keys
might not have worked, or he could have been fumble
fucking around for the witnesses. The information in this case,
to me is is whatever you want to use it for.
It can point in any direct.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well, it sounds to me like that obviously that second
guy had something to do with it. But the first
dude just seemed to be going out of his way.
Everything he did seemed like an attempt to get somebody
to notice, and like like he was working for an
alibiole It could be.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
But when you look at it another way, he doesn't
know these people's names. It's nineteen thirty one, there's no
social media, nobody is exchanging names. So he's always also
working on the assumption that any of these people could
possibly be tracked down later to Alibia, a tram driver,
a random He was mostly talking to randoms on the street.

(42:49):
They weren't exchanging names. Police did track down a lot
of these people, but through sheer effort. Though, I mean,
nineteen thirty one, you're just guessing if if I talked
to a guy on the street some randomly, he'll be
able to al by me later. You don't know they're
gonna fucking find him. It doesn't mean he wasn't, but
you're you're it's a shot in the door.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
The hole, not be able to get into the house.
And then he could.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Though, but they were bolted, these dog So we've talked
about it, and in like the case of ten twenty four,
of the room ten twenty four, the mystery that one
we did. I don't know. The locks were different back then.
They were locked from the inside of the outside of you.
Today you can't tell you put your key. I don't
I don't know. I don't think there's any way to know.
But but back then they knew if it was locked
from the inside of the outside, and she was locked
in this house from the inside. Both doors were locked

(43:30):
from the inside.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, but that you only know that by his word.
They know the front door was locked.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
But the fact the front door was dead bolted.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Right, so you know that one was true. But he
went to the back and he said it was locked.
But when he went back with them, he was able
to get in.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
True.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So either someone was in and they bounced, but they
would have noticed somebody leaving, you would think, yeah, but
he was able to get in, and that's why it
seems like he was. And then he went and he's like, oh,
come see you know, Oh she's dead, Come see because
I want you to see that we discovered it together.
It just seems so fishy.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
It does a lot. A lot of what he does
seems like he was he had an he had an agenda.
A lot of what all of what he does seems.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Isn't all right. So what do you think?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
And that's exactly where you're I don't think William Wallace
killed his wife, You don't. And and these are the reasons.
Motive is none that we can establish. You can never
really know somebody's motives, but you go to a courting,
you know there's there's a checklist of the go to motives.
So there was. There was never any allegations of infidelity

(44:42):
against either of them. There's no affairs, They couldn't track
anything down. There was nothing like that. Their house was
sufficiently close to all their neighbors that their neighbors could
hear them playing music, knocks on their front door, all
their chatting and then playing the music, all that type
of stuff. There was no reports of any fights, arguments,
anything like that. They had no large insurance policies. Their

(45:04):
financers were in good shape, so there was no financial
motive for him. But most important for me is the timeline.
So she was seen alive at six forty five PM.
That's positively he would have had to have left this
house by six point forty nine. The police determined, they
went over the timelines again and again, that gave him
four minutes. There's no way in hell he could have

(45:27):
done it in that timeline. So the prosecution at the
trial to explain this sad discrepancy, they suggested that the
person that the milk boy, no man with you? What
do you wanna call him? At six forty five? Saw
So the proxcusen said that that was William wearing Julia's
clothing and speaking in a woman's voice. But nonetheless, even

(45:48):
if that was him, that still gave him four minutes
to shed her clothing, put on a suit a raincoat,
and boot out the front door and still make his
tram in for minute.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
They never determine who the RAINCOATU.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
It was his coat, It was his raincoat.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
It was Yes, I feel like they worked in tandem
and his wife together, him and the other guy.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Maybe maybe that's possible, but again, what's the gain from
William's point, he.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Told him to get that money. He wanted to kill
that wife that was driving him crazy. Possible, possible.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
So again you know the house was locked from the
inside for me, that's a big detail as well. Hu
So likewise, so if the timeline, so, if he had
done it after he got back, he again would not
have time to have done it and cleaned up before
the Johnston stumbled upon him. So he had no time
beforehand to have done it. Four minutes is what he

(46:47):
would have had to have done beforehand and afterwards. Timeline
is and is clear. But you're talking ten twelve minutes,
and all the drains in the house were clean, right,
he did wash He did not wash up inside the house.
And the police examined his outfit that night extensively. There
was nothing on him. So if he did it, he
was naked, washed up real quick without using the drains.

(47:10):
There wasn't a drop on his mind.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
There was no struggle inside, so it was either him
or somebody else.

Speaker 5 (47:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
No furniture was overturned, so she wasn't, so she had
to have known who was in the house, so it
could be the other dude or him. But if the
neighbors are so close and they can hear everything, they
didn't hear her being murdered in that.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
No, they didn't hear a thing. That's another thing that
for me, argues in his favor, I don't know. They
didn't hear a thing, nothing out of the ordinary.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Though, well, you think if they could hear so much,
they would have heard somebody else come into the house.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
But what they did testify was when he said he
couldn't get in the front door or the back, he
knocked extensively and police thought that that was bullshit, but
when they talked to the neighbors, they heard those knocks.
So if he was faking, he went as far as
to knock his ass off at both the front and
back doors, which would be pretty progressive for criminal back then,

(48:02):
and going through those steps if he had the key,
I mean he was really going through the show. Doesn't
mean he didn't do it, but he jumped through hoops.
So on his return, so we his timeline on the
way out from the murderous concrete. On his way back,
we know where he was at a certain time. He
didn't talk to the tram drivers as much on the

(48:23):
way back, but we know when he left two come back,
so we know roughly when he arrived back at the house.
So his estimate at arriving back to the house at
about eight forty five pm is it really close He
would have taken would have had to have taken the
murder weapon with him and disposed on it, disposed of

(48:43):
it either right before or right after he had taken
the tram, So that means he was wearing a suit
and a rain shout and he had the fireplace poker
up his sleeve, and people saw him, A lot of
people saw him. Nobody said anything was amiss. He wasn't stressed,
wasn't breathing heavy, he wasn't acting weird before rafter all
those people that talked to him when he was on

(49:04):
his way to that address, searching for that address, nobody
said he was acting strangely, And the same thing with
those people on his way out. If he took the
fireplace poker with him, there was no place he had
disposed of it before the tramp, so he had it
up his sleeve. We're down his butthole.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I don't know. We are definitely doing the Spotify pole on.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
This, so I he could have, but that means he
had had the murder weapon with him, and you know,
a fireplace poker that's hard to hide in a suit.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
But what was something else missing from the house too,
wasn't they said?

Speaker 2 (49:34):
A rod?

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
So the city cleaning crew was assigned to look for
this because they figured he had disposed of it, and
the short distance between his house and the tramp, so
they had searched all the grids. They could not find it.
But the prosecution never put forth much of an explanation
on the burnt raincoat on Julie's body. That wasn't explaining
very well. They didn't attend tempt to explain it very well.

(50:01):
Perhaps it had caught fire during the crime, or maybe
he had tried to burn it after the murder, but
all the smoke made him change his mind and he
simply put it out by rolling his wife's body under Well,
that's basically the extent of anything on that. I don't
know how you can use the raincoat to either illustrate
that he did it or didn't. There just isn't enough there.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
But it's his and it was under her.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yes, but there was no sign of a fire in
the house. So whereout a game from? I have no idea.
You know, this is one of those cases. The further
you dig, every question you answer brings up three more questions.
The further you dig, the more confusing.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
At first I was just sure it was just him,
but then I started leaning more towards he was working
with the other Never once did I think it was
just the other guy, which it possibly could have done.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
It very well could have been. Those two were not friends.
They had been friends, but they fell out, so I
mean he had motives plausible that William wallaceired guy to
do it.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
That's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
That's plausible. I think there's almost no chance, in my opinion,
that William Wallace physically did it right.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
But he went out of his way to call to
someone called the place where he never get a phone
call before, to go to an address that didn't exist,
and then he let everybody know along the way that hey,
I'm looking for this address that doesn't exist. I don't know,
seems shady.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
It does seem shady. Like I said, I don't think
he did it. My gut tells me he didn't do it.
There's a lot of red flags in this one, but
if you look at a lot of them, they're they're explainable.
I wouldn't say easily explainable. You know, he was a
guy looking for he was trying to keep a commission,
and he was looking at the address. Of course he

(51:47):
was going to talk to a bunch of people. You
could see both ways. It's a guy trying to establish
an alibi, or it's a guy truly trying to keep
an appointment and trying to find a fucking address. So
I mean, you can really find anything you want in
this one. Is what have you looked for, is there.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, this is definitely a head scratcher. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
We'd love to know what you guys think. We're definitely
put a pole up on Spotify.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
You guys let us know.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
So, uh, before I get to Raymond Chandler probably said
it best when he described it. The Wallace case is
the non parrell of all murder mysteries. I call it
the impossible murder because Wallace couldn't have done it, and
neither could anyone else. The Wallace case is unbeatable. It
will always be unbeatable. That's a good quote. I want

(52:33):
to then with that one.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, it pretty much is.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, any way, you look at it like, this doesn't
make sense, but nothing else makes sense either.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
No, it'd be nice if they had some forensics and
back then you know they got nothing. Yeah, no murder weapon,
no fingerprints. His fingerprints would be all over the house anyways,
but nobody else is.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
They went solely on time of death, which is so debatable.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
It's not it's not good at all.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
You know, that can be manipulated so easily.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Not everybody goes into reggae mortis at the same amount
of time.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Killers nowadays use freezers and heaters and anything else to
manipulate the time of death because it's so easy to do.

Speaker 5 (53:11):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
A lot of it's done by like bodies that have
been sitting for a long time. They determined by like
the bugs and the stuff that are Yeah, it's crazy
how they figure out this stuff. Great story, Bud, I
appreciate it, and uh, we are going to head over
to the fire Pit. We'll catch you over there. I

(53:32):
guess you know what's homed is I can't.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Try to buy Okay, So before we do this week's
fire Pit, I want to apologize for the delay. Scott
and I recorded the episode last night, so this is

(53:54):
actually the next day. We had a massive system failure. Uh,
Peter froze forced reboot, would not reboot. Uh, just godas rupic.
We were pretty well convinced the episode was gone. I
managed to get the computer started tonight. The episode is
not gone. So I'm recording the fire Pit myself tonight.

(54:15):
Scott's at work. We apologize for the delay, guys. Is
June has been June and July. It's has been rough.
It's been one thing after another, so we appreciate you
guys being patient with us. We are going to get
back on schedule. Promise you that. Uh So, this week's
firepit comes to us from Matthew, so here we get them.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
I what's up, guys, I got another story for you.
It seems to like the North Dakota one.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
So Age and I work on the old riggs and
I was ordering on a rig up and fell and
rig up there Pitzulana and Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Came in and belaevors supply to the rig and we'd
chit chatting, and he told me he went to this
century probation tank over at Pittsburgh and how wild it was.
So I booked an appointment from when I got off
the rig. I was getting off the rig in a
couple of days. So I got off and took a shower,

(55:14):
packed up and left and went over this uh ah
that had sensory deporation takes. And if you're not familiar
with them, you know there. This one was about I
don't know, imagine like an oversized coffin, maybe double the
size of coffin, and it's got a forty five degree
angle cutting one side or the door is and you know,

(55:36):
you call in this thing and they're filled with you know,
saturated salt water, and you float like a cork. You
float effortless, leave and you can't see anything, can't see
an in front of your face, can't hear anything, sir,
I hoped, you know, I booked a ninety minute session,
hopped in the tank, and.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
You know, you're your butt ass naked and that thing
floating around, can't anything.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
You're floating on your back. And I was in at
about fifteen or twenty minute and I started seeing.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
Lights like green and blue hues, kind of like the
Northern lights if you've ever seen those, and kind of
freaked me out.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
So I jumped out of the tank, grabbed my cellphone
with flashlight and was looking on this thing and I fell.
You know, they'd instoled some sort of light, says them
or something like that.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
I started looking around all the tank and there's nothing.
There's no wires running to it, there's no LEDs or
anything in and I was like, man, this is wild.
I thopped back in and.

Speaker 6 (56:37):
I got I didn't know at the time, but getting
out and I kind of messed my trip up that
I had to stop, you know, get back into it.
So I hopped back in the tank, and you know,
after about ten minutes, I started seeing these lights again,
and you the lights got more intense, and next thing
I know, I'm flying through outer space. Is the best

(56:58):
way to explain it, you know, flying to but it's
and I could see these galaxies and planets and and uh,
you know you can. I remember seeing the Pyramids. I
remember seeing like ancient text and this ancient book and
you're just flying and you can't see your value or anything.

Speaker 5 (57:16):
You just I don't know if it's actual projecting, is
what you call it, or I don't know. But it
was the wildest experience of my life. But ever since
I do, I've books appointment. I've tried to go.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Once a year, and every time I ended up seeing
all this crazy stuff. And I get the thoughts behind
it is when you ride your bane of stimulation, it'll
create its own stimulation and there's a wild experience that
you've got one near you.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
You know, go book it, go try it. It is
uh got to be one of the wilder things I've
ever done. And I think about it all the time,
and I always enjoyed going. And you're kind of leading
the experience with h I suppose sort of in a
light and perspective but got check it out if you've
never done it. Those sensory depredation tanks tra awesome.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Other than that, guys, keep up and looking forward to
their episodes.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
That was a great story, Matthew. That actually to me,
it does sound like aspro projection for sure. I've I've
actually never done one of those sensory deprivation tanks. I
don't I don't love the confined spaces, so I'm not
sure I would thrive in one of those. And I
don't think I should be left alone with my own
thoughts for all that long, because that's that's not gonna
be healthy for anybody. Appreciate the story, buddy. If you

(58:39):
guys have any firepit sentiment to be on the Shadows
two o seven at gmail dot com or hit us
up on any of our socials. Again, we apologize for
the late episode this week. Guys. It's just kind of
one of those things that happens. But we will be
back on track next week. We'll appreciate you sticking with us,
and uh, we'll catch you in the next one.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Later