September 15, 2024 • 45 mins
Text Beyond the Threshold w/ your thoughts or questions!
In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans is joined by Kacie Luaders, a creator, arts advocate, sound designer and founder of Could Be Pretty Cool.
- Her journey from university, to live theatre to podcasting.
- Her first two podcasts, and her Spotify workshop experience for WOC.
- How limitations often drive innovation and creative problem-solving.
- The importance of representation in audio strategies for podcast marketing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kacie Luaders (00:01):
I believe that everyone's individual
perspective is so important.
Figuring out how to approach itfrom your unique perspective,
you just have to kind of likecarve that space for yourself
within a given topic or genre.
Sidney Evans (00:19):
Tune in as we give flowers to Black men and women
making waves in the audioindustry.
I'm your host, sydney Evansans,and this is beyond the
threshold.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo beyond the threshold.
(00:44):
I'm your host, sidney Evans, anaward-winning audio editor,
mixer and producer.
For those of you who don't know, on this show I interview Black
men and women working in theaudio industry to highlight the
lessons and experiences it takesto achieve success in the field
.
I want to thank you all fortuning in to another episode.
We got another amazing guest ontap for today and, as I usually
(01:08):
do, I'm kind of going to justjump right into things, but I do
have a bit of a story before weget there.
So in either 2021 or 2022, Iwas commissioned or to simply
put, I was asked to speak atBlack Pie Fest in Atlanta to
lead an audio engineering panel.
She had a panel, she was apanelist too, and she led the
(01:32):
sound engineering panel, sounddesign panel, and I said, okay,
I'm going to go, I'm going tocheck that one out.
That was one of the ones I hadhighlighted that I wanted to
check out, and during thesession I was like, okay, she's
got, she got a unique sense ofhumor.
Oh she, she knows her stuff,she's oh, she's creative.
I was like, as she's going, I'mjust like all these like
(01:54):
interesting things you know, shebrought up and kind of
introduced and so I said, okay,I'm gonna follow up with her.
I made a list of people thatyou know that I found
interesting, that I wanted to toconnect with afterwards.
So when I got back I did that,reached out to her like caught
on a quick Zoom, just introducedourselves, what we do, just
kind of get to know each other alittle bit.
(02:26):
First month she was providinglike all these resources for
creatives, whether it's audio orother other fields, and she
posted a link about associateproducer role.
So I clicked on it and I waslike I don't know, I kind of I
felt like it was just like forme, like it was just like this
is everything I'm looking forfor the full time.
It was very creative, it wasedgy, like it was just like this
is everything I'm looking forfor the full time.
It was very creative, it wasedgy and it was cool.
(02:48):
So I applied, forgot all aboutit.
Maybe like a month later theyhit me up, I interview and I end
up getting a job.
So if I, if all those thingshadn't aligned the way they did,
I would have never got thatopportunity.
So I said all that to say she'sa great resource for people
looking for jobs, looking foropportunities, and we're going
to get more into that in theepisode.
(03:09):
But to give a quick backgroundon her, she's a creator and arts
advocate based out of Atlanta.
She earned her degree in musicrecording technology from
Hampton and master's in sounddesign from Savannah College of
Art and Design.
She participated in the 2019Spotify SoundUp podcasting
accelerator program and sheformed the production company
(03:32):
Could Be Pretty Cool, whosemission is to produce unique
creative experiences to inspirecommunity building through the
arts.
She has also served as atheatrical sound designer, arts
administrator and speaker forlocal and national artists and
cultural organizations, amongsta ton of other things that we
may or may not get to throughoutthe course of the interview.
(03:53):
So, without further ado, I'dlike to introduce the guest for
today, casey Lueders.
Kacie Luaders (04:01):
Hi Sidney, Thanks for letting me on your show.
Sidney Evans (04:03):
Absolutely.
Thank you for joining.
I saw you posted on yourLinkedIn that you are in high
demand for interviews right now,so I'm glad you were able to
squeeze me in.
Kacie Luaders (04:13):
Oh no, it's not even it's.
I think it's more of likeeveryone in the summertime
trying to just push everythinguntil Fridays and so Fridays
over the summer, I'm justtalking to people all day, so
very happy that we're doing this.
On what is this?
A Wednesday, On a Wednesday, itis.
Sidney Evans (04:32):
I was going to say this is a Wednesday, so
hopefully you're in betterspirits than all the Friday
interviews.
It seems, for some reason, likeyou just mentioned, most of the
ones you do on Fridays, it seemseverybody's scheduling on
Wednesdays for me.
Most of the ones you do onFridays, it seems everybody's
scheduling on Wednesdays for me.
So I feel like it's a good.
You know, you kind of over thereality of the beginning of the
week but you're not checked outenough towards the end of the
(04:56):
week.
So I feel like Wednesday is agood day, so I feel like I'm
getting the best interviews outthere.
So hopefully this will standout a little more than all the
other podcasts.
But, as I mentioned in theintro, you have done a lot of
amazing things, specifically toaudio, but from a creative
capacity as well.
So just wanted to kind of firststart off early, like what was
young Casey like and then howyour educational experience and
(05:20):
things kind of led up to youlike going to college at Hampton
and eventually Savannah Artsand Design, and kind of focused
on like audio, music, sounddesign, all that type of stuff.
Kacie Luaders (05:30):
Absolutely so.
Young Casey was a total weirdo,which probably should come as a
surprise to no one, but Ialways loved music.
I have seen old VHS tapes of mewhen I could like barely sit up
but I was trying to like crawltowards the family record player
(05:52):
or the tape player because I'mjust like, what is that Like?
How is that making these sounds?
So yeah, I started pianolessons when I was five.
Wasn't very good.
Started guitar lessons when Iwas 10.
Wasn't very good.
Started guitar lessons when Iwas 10.
Wasn't very good.
Switched to bass when I was 14.
Also, the pattern continues.
(06:12):
So I wanted to be in music.
I wanted to tour with groups.
I wanted to.
Eventually, in high school, whenthe big superstar producers the
Pharrells, the Timberlands,like were getting more attention
, I wanted to be a musicproducer.
And so I went to college formusic recording technology.
(06:34):
Because I'm like, yes, I toocan do this, but you have to
have talent to succeed in themusic industry.
Everyone Piece of advice numberone.
And so I quickly learned I'm nota music producer, I'm not a
musician, I'm not good at this,but I love sound, I love audio,
(06:54):
and so I quickly moved tolearning more about the
engineering side and, through aseries of bizarre events, the
music department at Hampton wasin the same building as the
theater department and someonewas just like, hey, you're in
the music program, right, if youever want to come and learn
about, like, sound design forthe theater, we're always
looking for people to do sound.
(07:15):
Like no one in our departmentwants to do sound for some
reason.
And so I was like, ok, we'llsee what that is, we'll see what
that is.
And that was really my firstlike, oh, you don't have to do
music to work in audio, but youcan still be creative and you
can still create.
You know emotions and supportstories.
Sidney Evans (07:42):
And so that, for me, was my first like, oh, I can
be good at something in audio,it just doesn't have to be music
.
So, after your time in collegeand going through that
experience, what was the processlike for you transitioning into
the working world?
Was it easy?
Did you have an opportunityright out?
Did you kind of have to grindyour way?
Do this on the side while youwork to provide for yourself?
I know a few of our guests,including myself, kind of had to
(08:03):
be able to do multiple thingsat once to try to keep the dream
going.
So what was that like for you?
Kacie Luaders (08:09):
Sure.
So when I graduated, I mean, Iwas still a pretty stupid 22, 23
year old.
So I ended up moving back homeand I was working in the box
office at a museum back inMichigan the Henry Ford Museum
and I wasn't sure what my nextmove was going to be in audio.
This is 2010 at this point.
(08:31):
So we're just coming out oflike crazy recession, and
graduating with a music degreeand a theater minor was not the
move at the time.
So I'm just kind of like, oh, Idon't know what's happening.
So I decided to go back to gradschool, which, as you mentioned,
went to Savannah College of Artand Design in Savannah, and
(08:52):
that was really where I had tolike focus up like real fast.
Like undergrad was a hot mess.
Grad school, it is no likemaybe I'm not going to go to
class today because I party toohard.
It's like, no, you're going tomiss so much stuff if you don't
show up.
So I was showing up.
I was learning from professorswho were adult peers, who I, in
(09:16):
another space, like might havebeen intimidated by, but because
we were classmates and peers,you know, being able to see that
I could compete with thesefolks, it was just a huge
confidence boost, and so I wouldsay it wasn't really until
after I graduated from gradschool that I had both the
confidence and the desire toactually like, push and figure
(09:39):
out what I wanted to do.
What I thought I wanted to dowhen I finished was I thought I
wanted to work in film locationsound.
So I moved to Atlanta in 2013.
And I did get on a few setshere a few commercial sets for
the Children's Hospital, a fewweb series, and I'm booming and
(10:01):
doing these long days on set andquickly learned.
I kind of hated that too.
So that was another step in thefiguring out what I didn't want
to do journey Because, yeah,you got to be on those sets at
like four or five in the morningand then you're just there all
day long, anywho.
So, yeah, eventually I startedactually telling people here in
(10:26):
Atlanta that I had a master's insound design and you know I had
some interest in theater and Idone some live theater in
undergrad, started getting a fewinternships, apprenticeships 16
, 2017, got my firstprofessional live theater sound
design job at the GeorgiaEnsemble Theater in Roswell,
(10:49):
georgia, and from there mycareer was like half still doing
kind of like admin for artsorganizations to like pay the
bills and then doing livetheater.
Sound design throughouttheaters in Atlanta.
Sidney Evans (11:07):
Do you still do like live stuff at all?
I would assume you havetransitioned.
Maybe have transitioned, if notcompletely or close to
completely.
Kacie Luaders (11:14):
Close to completely.
I think what is going to be mylast professional show here in
Atlanta is a show called theWash, which is at the Impact
Theater right now, and I'm goingto be doing some stuff at Emory
.
But yes, I am close to beingfully finished with theatrical
sound design.
Sidney Evans (11:34):
You don't think you'll like, once you officially
retire, like there's alwaysthat urge, like people will
reach out to you like, yeah, wegot this opportunity.
Would you ever consider like,if it's like such an amazing
opportunity, amazing opportunitythere's, like there's no way I
can turn this, and would youconsider it under them circles,
under those circumstances?
Kacie Luaders (11:49):
there's a possibility.
That's kind of how I'm backthis year.
I didn't do.
I didn't do any shows last yearin 2023, because I was like,
yeah, I'm done.
I did two shows in 2022 justbecause everything had been, you
know, shut down and people werejust starting to like reach
back out again.
But yeah, it's just a differenttype of time commitment than
(12:10):
podcasting.
I would say like we can do somuch virtually with podcasting,
with live theater, you have tobe in the space, you have to be
at the rehearsal, you have to goto the, you know, and so doing
that in addition to doingpodcasting, it's just like never
stop working life, which I'm nolonger about as I am continuing
(12:34):
my journey into my 30s.
So, yeah, yeah.
Sidney Evans (12:39):
Yeah, and we're going to get into.
Obviously there's that whenyou're young and you kind of you
got to like you really got tohustle, you know there's a
season for us, like you just gotto try to get as much done as
possible, whether it's you knowworking two jobs or you know
pulling all-nighters, or youknow little bit older, that you
got to strike more of a balance.
And it's not about like notwanting to do the work, it's
(13:07):
that so you're in the rightspace to do it efficiently and
effectively.
And I'll touch on that a littlebit more as we get a little
further in your story.
But I do want to back up andkind of transition to to where
you were doing the admin artstuff, to you know to make a
living and you were doing livesound design, live stuff.
(13:29):
When did podcasting come onyour radar?
Kacie Luaders (13:34):
You know I've heard about podcasts and you
know I had friends from, youknow, the sound design program
who were starting to jump intopodcasts and really they were
the ones who were telling me,like you know, the sound design
program who were starting tojump into podcasts, and really
they were the ones who weretelling me, like you know, circa
2016, 2017, like you know, thispodcast and stuff, like it's
going to be really big, it'sgoing to explode.
And I'm not someone who listensto a lot of stuff for
(13:57):
recreation, right, because youknow we always got the cans on.
I'm always doing something.
I wasn't listening to podcastsat the time.
I was like, okay, whatever.
So in 2019, one of the artisticdirectors at a theater that I've
worked for before basicallyjust shot me a DM and was like
hey, I don't know if you dopodcasts, but Spotify is doing
(14:19):
this thing for women of color,but Spotify is doing this thing
for women of color to like,basically, workshop and learn
about podcasting.
And you know, if this issomething you're interested in,
like you should, you should tryit.
So I applied again.
I didn't know what I was doingor talking about, but
fortunately, I would say becauseof my audio background, I did
(14:41):
get in and so in I want to sayit was August of 2019, went out
to the Spotify headquarters inNew York.
It was myself and nine otherwomen.
We just kind of learned likecrash course about so much about
podcasting and kind ofworkshops, an idea for a pilot
(15:02):
for one of our own shows.
But yeah, I came back home andwas like OK, cool, that's a
great thing for me to know atsome point and went back to my
day gig and didn't think aboutit until 2020.
Sidney Evans (15:18):
So maybe, like a year later, was when you were
like, ok, I'm going to applywhat I learned at this
accelerator and try to attemptto create something.
So, so what was that first thing?
Cause a lot of times in people'sstories, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a
big junkie on, like you know,biographies, documentaries, like
learning the process of howpeople got to to where they were
(15:38):
and, interestingly enough, likethe thing that you that they
blew up on, it's usually not thefirst, their first attempt at
whether it's somebody who'shoning over a record label.
They might've signed an act thatdidn't sell anything, but you
never heard about it.
So you think you know, like the, the crisscrosses and the TLCs,
like you, you hear about themand you're like, oh okay, this
(16:01):
is their, like the first actthat they signed and it blew up.
It was like, nah, they probablyhad a lot of smaller acts that
didn't work out and we're justweren't aware of it.
But now, because things notbecause they're successful we
think, okay, they just jumped toit and it just went from A to Z
, just like that.
So what was the first thingthat you produced, and was that,
(16:23):
in fact, the first thing thatkind of got you on the radar
once you made that transition ina podcast.
Kacie Luaders (16:29):
Sure, so the first original podcast that I
made was like a three episodelimited series thing, that.
So, just to kind of step back alittle bit, 2020, april 2020,
got laid off from my full-timeday gig because of the pandemic,
and then at the time I was onlike maybe four theater shows
(16:54):
and of course, everything shutdown, so I literally had nothing
to do sitting in the house.
Sitting in the house, but myalma mater, scad, they put out a
call to do a virtual likealumni fellowship basically, and
they were like you know we canrun this fellowship, but you
know we can't go on campus.
(17:14):
So if someone has an idea, analum for an art project or a
media project that can be donevirtually, you know you should
apply.
And during this time you know,in addition to pandemic, this
was also the summer of, you know, the racial reckoning sitting
in the house all day watchingthat it was just like I would
(17:39):
like to do some sort of projectabout this, and so my pitch to
them was a podcast called WhiteAngle, where I had a white
documentarian who had made afilm about some sort of black
injustice.
So you know whether it wassomething that happened in the
past, something that was currentand I paired them with a black
(18:02):
filmmaker and it was basicallyjust a time for them to have a
discussion.
The Black filmmaker will watchthe white filmmaker's movie and
they could just have aconversation.
Because my, I guess, theory was,if you're in that world and
making a film but you're not ofthat culture, you do definitely
(18:25):
have a perspective as an artist.
But what kind of likeconversation can we have about
it?
Like no name calling, no shade,as just people to really like
dive into what being astoryteller about a culture that
you don't belong to actuallymeans.
And it was chill, everyone wasrespectful, everyone was, you
(18:46):
know, walked away hopefullyfeeling like oh yes, this was a
great conversation to have.
So it was done sort of like anacademic project in a way,
wasn't released widely, it wasjust on like a little standalone
website.
But that was the first thingwhere I actually was like I have
an idea, I'm going to pitch myidea, I'm going to find people
(19:09):
to cast in this idea, I'm goingto edit it, I'm going to publish
it.
That was my first podcast.
Sidney Evans (19:16):
Okay, so a word that's standing out to me is
pitch.
So a lot of times I justcreatives, focus more on the
creative and the technical, andobviously there's a lot of
writing involved and but that'skind of you know, working in the
thing.
(19:36):
But the pitching part is like awhole different beast in itself
, and I don't know if the starsjust align for you properly or
what, but it seems like once youenter things, once you have to
apply for things, like it justworks out for you.
So is there something inparticular that you learned or,
um, that you found particularlyhelpful that has assisted you
(19:58):
when you are presenting yourpitches that are getting the
responses and the and theleading to the opportunities?
Or is it I don't know just alike your knack for storytelling
?
Um, there, obviously there'ssomething there that you have
that, um, other people couldbenefit from learning about or
you highlighting.
So I'm curious to know formyself, but I'm sure the
(20:21):
listeners are curious to know aswell.
Like what, what is it aboutpitching that makes you stand
out from the crowd?
Kacie Luaders (20:28):
So I would say pitching is definitely, it's a
little art, it's a littlescience, it's a lot of luck.
For every successful thing thatI have pitched, or every
successful program I've gotteninto thing that I have pitched
or every successful program I'vegotten into, I guarantee you
there were 10 or 15 rejectionsthat I got beforehand or at the
(20:48):
same time.
So what I'm learning with audiospecifically is I try to figure
out first of all, like, who amI talking to?
And if they were to give memoney, support a platform, how
is this going to benefit themthe most?
Because I mean real talk.
(21:09):
No one's going to give youanything unless they're going to
get something from it.
And then the second thing thatI typically try to do is I try
to, like if I come up with anidea, I try to just do, you know
, a little quick, little Googleand see what other people have
done about the same topic andthen try to go in a direction
that hasn't been approachedbefore.
Sidney Evans (21:31):
You got to come over.
You kind of try to come throughthe.
It's like guerrilla warfare.
Yeah, a little bit, you kind ofsee where like OK, this is,
this is what they're expecting,so let me go off of that a
little bit.
Kacie Luaders (21:46):
I've never thought of as guerrilla warfare,
but I mean, I guess in someways, yes, you know you don't
want to pitch something thatalready exists.
But I also, you know some people, a lot of people, say like, oh,
we don't need any more podcastsabout this because they're
already, you know, 100, 1000 outthere.
I believe that everyone'sindividual perspective is so
(22:06):
important and so if you find asubject or a topic that, like
everybody's already talkingabout, figuring out how to
approach it from your uniqueperspective and in a way that
other people aren't approachingit, you just have to kind of
like carve that space foryourself within a given topic or
genre.
And so, yeah, figuring out howto do that is probably my next
(22:31):
thing.
And then I will say, you know,just trying to, I realize, if
there's something with likeapplications and you got to
write essay questions and youknow people don't want to read a
lot.
So how can you say what youwant to say, to grab the
attention, to make the point asconcisely as possible?
(22:54):
I would say is a big thing tofigure out, because they they
not trying to read a lot.
Sidney Evans (23:01):
But the editing is the most important part, like
you you've had like in order tomake it concise and it's not
just word vomit and, you know,make sure you're not overusing
words or whatever like.
If you you don't have to be thethe greatest at the original
idea, but if you edit it verywell, you, you can present
(23:22):
yourself in a much better lightfor somebody to absorb it and be
concise and not check out whatI'm reading.
So I do want to share that.
But you also mentioned carvinga space for yourself, so we're
going to jump ahead to you HeardMe Right which is?
You mentioned your firstproduction, but I think, like
this one is the kind of the onethat was OK, I got something, it
(23:44):
was.
It was accepted and appreciatedmore widely than the first show
you mentioned, which was WhiteAngle.
Kacie Luaders (23:51):
You said that is correct.
Sidney Evans (23:53):
OK, so you explain , like the, the, the idea for
you Heard Me Right the processand like, I guess, the accolades
of reception that you got fromit.
And what was it like?
You know navigating all youknow from conception to the
production, to putting it outand marketing it, and you know,
(24:14):
allowing people to consume it towhere it was appreciated.
Kacie Luaders (24:17):
Sure.
So yes, as I mentioned being apart of the Spotify SoundUp
Accelerator, we all developed apitch for a show, a podcast, and
pitched that at the end of theprogram, and so the top four
pitches in my cohort receivedfunding to make a pilot episode
(24:38):
of their show.
We were not one of those topfour so again, it was just kind
of like, oh, this is great, youknow, great experience and
opportunity.
Maybe at some point I'll dothis show.
But you know, back to reality.
So this was another sitting inthe house, 2020.
Like when I had gotten backfrom the program, you know, I
(25:00):
said you know, I'm going to tryto make this eventually.
So I got a couple of my friendstogether, did a very bare bones
like scratch version demo ofwhat you Hurt Me Right could be,
and I put it away for months,didn't do any editing, didn't
tell anybody.
It was just like, okay,whatever.
So, yeah, I'm sitting in thehouse.
(25:20):
I was like, well, you know,okay, whatever.
So, yeah, I'm sitting in thehouse.
I was like, well, you know,edit this, I'll send it back to
the folks at Spotify from theprogram.
Really, I was just looking fornotes Because, again, I don't
know what a podcast was, andthis was actually even before
White Angle started.
So I literally was like justbored coming up with ideas at
(25:40):
the same time.
And things started going inproduction later that year.
But, yeah, I sent the demo andsomebody got back to me and was
like, oh, we like it.
Like you know, we want to pickit up, but we're shut down for
doing productions because youknow, pandemic.
And so they were like, if youcan figure out how to do it,
(26:02):
then sure we'll distribute it.
So I think I would say a lot ofmy training in theater came in
handy with the figuring out howto do it.
Part the show.
You Heard Me Right?
It is a art making podcastwhere we have groups of three
(26:22):
working on a project togetheranonymously and then they come
together and talk about it livefor the first time on the show.
And we knew that at the time wecouldn't just like bring groups
of people into a recordingstudio because pandemic.
And so basically I was like, ifwe can't figure out how to do
(26:44):
this outside, everybody 10 feetaway, whatever Y'all got to
remember, this is 2020, likeJune, july, when just everything
was popping in the whole thickof it.
We didn't know what was going on.
I was like, if we can't figureout how to do this safely, like
I'm not doing it.
And so it was a combination oflike my team, myself and then
(27:07):
Spotify for actually letting uslike do it Whatever, like okay.
So we found an Airbnb outsideof Atlanta.
We set up mics and everythinglike outside in the backyard and
we have people come in likestraight through the, the, the
backyard.
We recorded the episode likethe first season.
(27:27):
You hear all the ambiencebecause you can't, you can't
edit that out um, I want to, Iwant to.
Sidney Evans (27:34):
I want to pause because I want to.
I want to highlight something.
It's interesting how sometimes,like where there's lack of
resources or the particularcircumstances you in allow you
to be more creative than youmaybe would have otherwise.
So just think about, forexample, like the creation of
hip hop is like, okay, well, uh,black people live in the city,
in the city.
Like, we can't, we don't knowabout how to play instruments,
(27:57):
and even if we did, we don'thave access to the actual
instruments to get everybody tocome in and record, do all this
type of stuff.
So it was like okay, well,we're just going to.
You know, we all, all ourparents, have all these soul and
funk records.
We're just going to sample themand then just add our twist to
it and within that they birthedlike the most popular genre of
(28:17):
music that everybody thought wasa fad.
But look at it now.
So the fact that you were ableto be creative, to be able to
get it recorded and done outsideand then you can hear the
ambiance, like that sets a wholedifferent tone and mood to it
than if you're in the studio andit's just silent, cause that
kind of creates more realism.
It kind of puts you in thespace more, it's more immersive.
(28:39):
So I'm sure that added anelement that wouldn't have been
there otherwise, had it, youknow it not been pandemic if it
would have been under nocircumstances.
So I just wanted to add that.
Sorry to interrupt.
You may continue.
Kacie Luaders (28:52):
Oh no, you're fine.
I was just going to say likethat's definitely like what I
meant by like I think a lot ofthe live theater kicked in
because there's zero money intheater.
Like you will be poor everyonelistening if you go into theater
, and so that's kind of what Iwas used to.
I was used to working withshoestring budgets.
I was used to, you know, peoplelike well, we can't afford this
(29:14):
prop, so we're just going tohave to take this thing and
stick a feather on it andimagine that it's a chick.
And imagine that it's a chick.
You know, that's kind of a lotof the approach that I bring to
my podcasting, which in someways is like bad.
You're not supposed to approachyour stuff with a scarcity
mentality, but you know it'smore of like a resourcefulness
(29:34):
to your point of having tofigure out how to make it happen
One day.
I would like to not have to dothat.
So if anyone just wants to likewrite me checks to do things, I
will accept that.
Sidney Evans (29:46):
An unlimited budget would be preferred, but
we can make it work otherwise.
Kacie Luaders (29:50):
Exactly, exactly, like I would not complain.
But yeah, figuring it outsomehow is a superpower of many
creatives superpower of manycreatives.
Sidney Evans (30:05):
Okay, so was that what led you to you know, get
all this like media and newscoverage and stuff like that?
I know you've been.
You've been highlighted in alot of things.
You know me being, you know,the the curious and wanting to
be as most prepared host that Ican be had to do my research
prior, and you have beenhighlighted in a lot of
publications platforms.
As I mentioned earlier, you'rehighly requested guests for
(30:26):
other podcasts as well as thisone.
Is there something that was anarea of emphasis that you wanted
to get PR and coverage on thetype of stuff that you're doing,
or did it kind of happenorganically?
Kacie Luaders (30:39):
I would say it was probably a combination of
just the fact that it was like aSpotify show that certainly
didn't hurt with the fact thatit was something that was kind
of weird and different.
And so, if nothing else, Ithink people maybe checked it
out to be like what is this?
So yeah, I think it was.
(30:59):
It was a combination of factors.
So yeah, I think it was acombination of factors, but
really, in some ways, I was justhappy to again go from I have
an idea to we're going to makethe thing, to we're going to put
it out, and then all the otherstuff that came after was like
(31:20):
bonus.
But actually figuring out howto do it, I think, was the
highlight for me.
Sidney Evans (31:26):
There's no other way to do it but to do it.
So to fast forward a little bitto what you have going on now
could be pretty cool.
Was this during the time youheard me right Was this idea
that you had at all Like, wereyou kind of making those putting
it away, coming back to it?
Or was it something like okay,I'm done with this, I've
(31:51):
squeezed as much out of theSpotify produced you heard me
right and it's time to move onto the next thing?
Or was it something that youhad kind of laid a soft
foundation for and you knew thatit would be something that a
time will come where you have tofocus on it?
Kacie Luaders (32:03):
Yeah, great question.
Definitely more of the softfoundation.
I went to a panel in Atlanta of, like, women in tech.
I went for the free food, but Iactually listened to the panel
and all of them said somethinglike you know, while you have
your full-time job, that's whenyou work on your side hustle
Like don't be quitting yourfull-time job.
(32:24):
To like go ahead first into thething that's going to make you
poor and unhappy all the time,like build alongside your
whatever.
And so I was like, oh, that's agood point.
I don't actually have a sidehustle and I don't know if I
want one, but I should probablyhave one.
I think I'll start one.
So, yeah, I think December of2019 is when I actually
(32:44):
registered my LLC and again, Idid not know what it was going
to be, but I was like, yeah,this could be pretty cool.
That's what it's called now.
So I had the bones in place tobe structured Again as an LLC.
I did the business bank account.
So I, on paper, was a businesswhich, once I did get laid off
(33:09):
in April 2020, and once thingsstarted happening, it almost was
kind of like perfect timing,because the even the program
that I worked or that where Iwas a fellow at SCAD, my school,
they were like oh, you know, doyou have an LLC?
In order to provide, you know,funding and support, you have to
be an LLC.
And I was like, oh, I justhappened to kind of have one of
(33:31):
those, I guess, and so it reallywasn't until around the time
all of this was happening whereI was like, oh, I should
probably like have a website, Ishould probably start getting
the handles on the social places.
So it was a lot of building theparachute.
After I'd already kind ofjumped out, and you know, to
(33:54):
your point, after 2020, 2021,2022, the opportunities started
not being as plentiful.
I will say, now I have thisthing that I still own, that I
now have some projects under,and so it was time to figure out
how to actually leverage thisinto a business.
Sidney Evans (34:16):
Okay.
So, yeah, highlight as far as,like, the how you laid it out to
actually be a sustainablebusiness.
Break down what exactly is likethe mission and the goal for
could be pretty cool.
And I guess, in explaining themission, you'll get into the
fusion of the audio storytellingand data analytics, which I'm
(34:37):
extremely curious about, becausethat world is a bit unfamiliar
to me as far as combining theaudio and the data.
So can you break that down?
Kacie Luaders (34:47):
Sure.
So, yes, initially the missionwas like keep letting corporate
media people write us checks tomake our own stuff, but that was
not a sustainable business plan, and so what we do now
primarily is we work on podcastsfor organizations.
(35:07):
So we're working on a podcastfor Bard College, which is in
upstate New York, working onpodcasts for nonprofit
organizations, and we reallysort of shifted our business
focus from just like let's makeCasey's creative projects to
let's figure out how to makepodcasts a way for organizations
(35:28):
to tell stories about theirorganization, collect research
and data about theirorganizations, but then to be
able to share that out in a waythat isn't just like we wrote
this report.
That's in a PDF on our website.
We're making data-drivencontent, and so that's right now
what keeps the lights on peace.
(35:50):
But we also now have anin-house podcast we produce
Could Be Pretty Cool News whichis a podcast that's all about
creative entrepreneurship.
On the journey that we were onthat we're still on Just met so
many fascinating people graphicspeople, writers, people who do
(36:11):
styling and fashion and everyonehas like a different story, but
a similar story when it comesto trying to stay creative and
trying to stay in tune with,like what's happening
artistically, but also trying tofigure out how to write
invoices and contracts and dotaxes.
(36:33):
And so the entire premise of theshow is just talking to folks
either who are experts in thecreator economy, academics,
people who you know work in likeecosystem building spaces where
they're collaborating with abunch of creators, and then also
telling narrative stories ofdifferent creators and how they
(36:54):
got started, what they're doing,their views on just how this
life can be sustainable for usall, maybe one day, and so
that's like the passion projectthat I'm really enjoying right
now.
That's led to differentopportunities.
I wouldn't say from the podcastitself.
(37:14):
Necessarily, we have a verymodest audience, but people who
do tune in you know, or knowthat it exists, can say like,
hey, can you come teach thisworkshop?
Or hey, can you come, you know,do this other thing.
So it's been okay, it's beenfine.
Sidney Evans (37:33):
So that's.
That's.
That's amazing.
Two things I think is I'm gladyou like, like this podcast
obviously is highlighting Blackmen and women in the audio space
specifically.
Yours is more broad, fromcreators in general, which I'm
glad because you know could bepretty cool.
Uh, news, you need a cover art.
Okay, you need somebody who cando graphic design.
Obviously you have the audiochops and and I had the audio
(37:56):
chops.
So you know we cover a largeportion of that in itself.
But, um, people have abackground in marketing.
You have to market the podcastand not even just with our
platforms.
Um, whatever business you'redoing, like you can't you have
to be a media company now, likeyou're gonna have to have a
creative storytelling aspect ofyour company now to like to
(38:16):
merge them, to have all thosepeople intertwined in one
environment, one setting.
I feel like it's beneficial forall.
And then also, a lot of thetimes, like you're so immersed
in your particular field.
Like you, kind of everything isjust like on your feet in your
field.
So you're, that's the worldthat you live, you're seeing all
(38:37):
of that, but then you have tostep out.
It was okay.
Well, if you're in constantlyin that world, like everybody
kind of knows the same stuff.
To a certain extent, you got tostep outside and connect with
people outside of that, becausethat that's where you can
present a lot of your value,because they aren't as familiar
with that world.
So it's a learning tool forthem and it's an it's a teaching
(38:59):
opportunity for you and viceversa.
If you step out to another world, whether it's a teaching
opportunity for you and viceversa, if you step out to
another world whether it's, Idon't know, finance or let's
just stick with finance you gooutside of that.
Obviously, as someone who hastheir own LLC and their own
company, that stuff is veryimportant because the Uncle Sam
don't play.
So you know you want to manageyour money well, you make sure
you're paying your taxes, youwant to make sure you dot your
(39:21):
i's and cross all your t's andyou know, by connecting with
people in that world, you knowthey can provide system helpful
things.
You may not be able to, at acertain point, hire a
professional to do all that onits own, but you can gain a lot,
a lot of valuable information.
Whether they have a podcast orin the content that they uh put
out and share on their socialmedia is tips that you can apply
(39:43):
to your business.
So you kind of have to expandyour horizons and not to kind of
just get stuck on theparticular field that you're in.
So I'm glad you have createdthat, so you're doing those
amazing things with pretty cooland you've got a lot of support.
One thing also that you createdthat I want to highlight really
quickly is Wallacraft.
(40:05):
Quickly explain it and whatthat experience was like.
Kacie Luaders (40:09):
Sure.
So Wallacraft is actually thebrainchild of one of my frequent
creative collaborators, cooperSkinner, who, going back to like
White Angle, going back to likewhite angle, being in a space
in the entertainment industrywhere it's different people,
different cultures, working onstories about different people,
different cultures cooper, whois not a black person, was
(40:30):
working on a narrative podcastthat was a black narrative, a
black experience, and there wereso many specific settings that
were like, you know, a redlobster in the hood or like
girls twerking in a parking lot,where he was kind of like what
sounds?
Are these, Like what?
(40:51):
This isn't something that's ina library, and so I thought it
was kind of hilarious.
But it also started gettingmore prevalent Storytelling as
more diverse stories were beingtold.
It's like we need these soundsto exist or else we're not going
to be able to make this work,and so that's where the idea for
Black Wallapack came from,accessible and available to
(41:26):
everyone to help tell Blackstories.
So we spent two days in thestudio with eight Atlanta actors
and actresses, actors I thinkeverybody's just actors now and
we just were putting themthrough different scenarios.
So it's like, you know,praising, catching the Holy
Ghost in church and go, or youknow, at a party, at a
restaurant, and just got thisreally rich sounding walla that
(41:47):
you can tell like, oh, these areBlack people.
And so the project is stillvery much ongoing.
Actually, the one play that Imentioned that I did a couple
months ago, I used some Blackwalla pack stuff in it it is a
Black narrative and so, yeah,our hope is to identify other
cultures or other ways tocapture audio from groups who
(42:11):
may not always be represented instock audio and to have that
content available so that,hopefully, as more of those
stories are being told, we'llhave the support and posts to be
able to make them toldauthentically.
So it's wacky but it'snecessary.
Sidney Evans (42:31):
Very necessary.
I'm glad you saw the need forthat and made it happen, so it
is available for purchase.
How can people purchase it?
Yes, you can go toWallacraftcom is available for
purchase.
How can?
Uh, the sound pack?
How can?
How can
Kacie Luaders (42:43):
Yes, um, you can go to wallacraft.
com, um.
Black walla pack and yes, isthere.
You can download a sample ifyou want to.
You know, get get a little demofirst.
But yeah, our hope and goalwith that again is to start
representing folks in audio whooften aren't represented right
(43:03):
now.
So stay tuned.
Sidney Evans (43:06):
I appreciate you, Kacie.
Yeah, we've covered a lot,highlighted some things.
Obviously, there's a lot toeveryone's story, so we can't
hit on everything in particular,but I do appreciate you sharing
what you have shared.
This is another full circlemoment for us.
Going back to my introductionto you at Black Pie Fest, and
(43:27):
I'm glad you were able to join.
But before we close out, howcan people find you on all the
things the website, socials howcan they support what you're
doing and anything else that youwant to highlight that may be
upcoming or on the horizon, andanything else that you want
Kacie Luaders (43:43):
Sure thing.
So we're at Could Pretty CoolCool mean, I think we're only
on IG and threads sometimes, butLinkedIn very active on there
Couldbeprettycoolcom.
If you happen to be going topodcast movement in August, I'll
be around, but, yeah, alwayslooking for folks to chat with
(44:06):
and, as Sydney mentioned, if Isee opportunities that I think a
creator could benefit from, Ijust slap it on up on my stories
, because that's how so manythings that I have received have
come to me Somebody sliding aDM or somebody just posting and
so I think paying it forward isdefinitely the move.
Sidney Evans (44:28):
So, yeah, All right, yeah, make sure you all
go check out what she has goingon.
All things could be pretty cooland beyond.
Once again, thank you, casey.
I appreciate you joining me fortoday's episode.
For those listening, I willcatch you on the next episode.
Super appreciative to anyonewho's listened to this episode
(44:49):
or previous episodes.
And, yeah, I'll catch you onthe next one.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode.
Please don't forget to subscribeto the show and leave us a
review.
If you'd like to work with meor connect, please go to
soundbysitcom and schedule acall there.
(45:10):
You can also check out the fulllist of productions I've worked
on.
If you'd like to connect onsocial media, my handle is
soundbysitcom on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
on LinkedIn.
I said dot com on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
on LinkedIn.
Don't forget to follow beyondthe threshold on Instagram as
well.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
I believe that everyone's individual
perspective is so important.
Figuring out how to approach itfrom your unique perspective,
you just have to kind of likecarve that space for yourself
within a given topic or genre.
Sidney Evans (00:19):
Tune in as we give flowers to Black men and women
making waves in the audioindustry.
I'm your host, sydney Evansans,and this is beyond the
threshold.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo beyond the threshold.
(00:44):
I'm your host, sidney Evans, anaward-winning audio editor,
mixer and producer.
For those of you who don't know, on this show I interview Black
men and women working in theaudio industry to highlight the
lessons and experiences it takesto achieve success in the field
.
I want to thank you all fortuning in to another episode.
We got another amazing guest ontap for today and, as I usually
(01:08):
do, I'm kind of going to justjump right into things, but I do
have a bit of a story before weget there.
So in either 2021 or 2022, Iwas commissioned or to simply
put, I was asked to speak atBlack Pie Fest in Atlanta to
lead an audio engineering panel.
She had a panel, she was apanelist too, and she led the
(01:32):
sound engineering panel, sounddesign panel, and I said, okay,
I'm going to go, I'm going tocheck that one out.
That was one of the ones I hadhighlighted that I wanted to
check out, and during thesession I was like, okay, she's
got, she got a unique sense ofhumor.
Oh she, she knows her stuff,she's oh, she's creative.
I was like, as she's going, I'mjust like all these like
(01:54):
interesting things you know, shebrought up and kind of
introduced and so I said, okay,I'm gonna follow up with her.
I made a list of people thatyou know that I found
interesting, that I wanted to toconnect with afterwards.
So when I got back I did that,reached out to her like caught
on a quick Zoom, just introducedourselves, what we do, just
kind of get to know each other alittle bit.
(02:26):
First month she was providinglike all these resources for
creatives, whether it's audio orother other fields, and she
posted a link about associateproducer role.
So I clicked on it and I waslike I don't know, I kind of I
felt like it was just like forme, like it was just like this
is everything I'm looking forfor the full time.
It was very creative, it wasedgy, like it was just like this
is everything I'm looking forfor the full time.
It was very creative, it wasedgy and it was cool.
(02:48):
So I applied, forgot all aboutit.
Maybe like a month later theyhit me up, I interview and I end
up getting a job.
So if I, if all those thingshadn't aligned the way they did,
I would have never got thatopportunity.
So I said all that to say she'sa great resource for people
looking for jobs, looking foropportunities, and we're going
to get more into that in theepisode.
(03:09):
But to give a quick backgroundon her, she's a creator and arts
advocate based out of Atlanta.
She earned her degree in musicrecording technology from
Hampton and master's in sounddesign from Savannah College of
Art and Design.
She participated in the 2019Spotify SoundUp podcasting
accelerator program and sheformed the production company
(03:32):
Could Be Pretty Cool, whosemission is to produce unique
creative experiences to inspirecommunity building through the
arts.
She has also served as atheatrical sound designer, arts
administrator and speaker forlocal and national artists and
cultural organizations, amongsta ton of other things that we
may or may not get to throughoutthe course of the interview.
(03:53):
So, without further ado, I'dlike to introduce the guest for
today, casey Lueders.
Kacie Luaders (04:01):
Hi Sidney, Thanks for letting me on your show.
Sidney Evans (04:03):
Absolutely.
Thank you for joining.
I saw you posted on yourLinkedIn that you are in high
demand for interviews right now,so I'm glad you were able to
squeeze me in.
Kacie Luaders (04:13):
Oh no, it's not even it's.
I think it's more of likeeveryone in the summertime
trying to just push everythinguntil Fridays and so Fridays
over the summer, I'm justtalking to people all day, so
very happy that we're doing this.
On what is this?
A Wednesday, On a Wednesday, itis.
Sidney Evans (04:32):
I was going to say this is a Wednesday, so
hopefully you're in betterspirits than all the Friday
interviews.
It seems, for some reason, likeyou just mentioned, most of the
ones you do on Fridays, it seemseverybody's scheduling on
Wednesdays for me.
Most of the ones you do onFridays, it seems everybody's
scheduling on Wednesdays for me.
So I feel like it's a good.
You know, you kind of over thereality of the beginning of the
week but you're not checked outenough towards the end of the
(04:56):
week.
So I feel like Wednesday is agood day, so I feel like I'm
getting the best interviews outthere.
So hopefully this will standout a little more than all the
other podcasts.
But, as I mentioned in theintro, you have done a lot of
amazing things, specifically toaudio, but from a creative
capacity as well.
So just wanted to kind of firststart off early, like what was
young Casey like and then howyour educational experience and
(05:20):
things kind of led up to youlike going to college at Hampton
and eventually Savannah Artsand Design, and kind of focused
on like audio, music, sounddesign, all that type of stuff.
Kacie Luaders (05:30):
Absolutely so.
Young Casey was a total weirdo,which probably should come as a
surprise to no one, but Ialways loved music.
I have seen old VHS tapes of mewhen I could like barely sit up
but I was trying to like crawltowards the family record player
(05:52):
or the tape player because I'mjust like, what is that Like?
How is that making these sounds?
So yeah, I started pianolessons when I was five.
Wasn't very good.
Started guitar lessons when Iwas 10.
Wasn't very good.
Started guitar lessons when Iwas 10.
Wasn't very good.
Switched to bass when I was 14.
Also, the pattern continues.
(06:12):
So I wanted to be in music.
I wanted to tour with groups.
I wanted to.
Eventually, in high school, whenthe big superstar producers the
Pharrells, the Timberlands,like were getting more attention
, I wanted to be a musicproducer.
And so I went to college formusic recording technology.
(06:34):
Because I'm like, yes, I toocan do this, but you have to
have talent to succeed in themusic industry.
Everyone Piece of advice numberone.
And so I quickly learned I'm nota music producer, I'm not a
musician, I'm not good at this,but I love sound, I love audio,
(06:54):
and so I quickly moved tolearning more about the
engineering side and, through aseries of bizarre events, the
music department at Hampton wasin the same building as the
theater department and someonewas just like, hey, you're in
the music program, right, if youever want to come and learn
about, like, sound design forthe theater, we're always
looking for people to do sound.
(07:15):
Like no one in our departmentwants to do sound for some
reason.
And so I was like, ok, we'llsee what that is, we'll see what
that is.
And that was really my firstlike, oh, you don't have to do
music to work in audio, but youcan still be creative and you
can still create.
You know emotions and supportstories.
Sidney Evans (07:42):
And so that, for me, was my first like, oh, I can
be good at something in audio,it just doesn't have to be music
.
So, after your time in collegeand going through that
experience, what was the processlike for you transitioning into
the working world?
Was it easy?
Did you have an opportunityright out?
Did you kind of have to grindyour way?
Do this on the side while youwork to provide for yourself?
I know a few of our guests,including myself, kind of had to
(08:03):
be able to do multiple thingsat once to try to keep the dream
going.
So what was that like for you?
Kacie Luaders (08:09):
Sure.
So when I graduated, I mean, Iwas still a pretty stupid 22, 23
year old.
So I ended up moving back homeand I was working in the box
office at a museum back inMichigan the Henry Ford Museum
and I wasn't sure what my nextmove was going to be in audio.
This is 2010 at this point.
(08:31):
So we're just coming out oflike crazy recession, and
graduating with a music degreeand a theater minor was not the
move at the time.
So I'm just kind of like, oh, Idon't know what's happening.
So I decided to go back to gradschool, which, as you mentioned,
went to Savannah College of Artand Design in Savannah, and
(08:52):
that was really where I had tolike focus up like real fast.
Like undergrad was a hot mess.
Grad school, it is no likemaybe I'm not going to go to
class today because I party toohard.
It's like, no, you're going tomiss so much stuff if you don't
show up.
So I was showing up.
I was learning from professorswho were adult peers, who I, in
(09:16):
another space, like might havebeen intimidated by, but because
we were classmates and peers,you know, being able to see that
I could compete with thesefolks, it was just a huge
confidence boost, and so I wouldsay it wasn't really until
after I graduated from gradschool that I had both the
confidence and the desire toactually like, push and figure
(09:39):
out what I wanted to do.
What I thought I wanted to dowhen I finished was I thought I
wanted to work in film locationsound.
So I moved to Atlanta in 2013.
And I did get on a few setshere a few commercial sets for
the Children's Hospital, a fewweb series, and I'm booming and
(10:01):
doing these long days on set andquickly learned.
I kind of hated that too.
So that was another step in thefiguring out what I didn't want
to do journey Because, yeah,you got to be on those sets at
like four or five in the morningand then you're just there all
day long, anywho.
So, yeah, eventually I startedactually telling people here in
(10:26):
Atlanta that I had a master's insound design and you know I had
some interest in theater and Idone some live theater in
undergrad, started getting a fewinternships, apprenticeships 16
, 2017, got my firstprofessional live theater sound
design job at the GeorgiaEnsemble Theater in Roswell,
(10:49):
georgia, and from there mycareer was like half still doing
kind of like admin for artsorganizations to like pay the
bills and then doing livetheater.
Sound design throughouttheaters in Atlanta.
Sidney Evans (11:07):
Do you still do like live stuff at all?
I would assume you havetransitioned.
Maybe have transitioned, if notcompletely or close to
completely.
Kacie Luaders (11:14):
Close to completely.
I think what is going to be mylast professional show here in
Atlanta is a show called theWash, which is at the Impact
Theater right now, and I'm goingto be doing some stuff at Emory
.
But yes, I am close to beingfully finished with theatrical
sound design.
Sidney Evans (11:34):
You don't think you'll like, once you officially
retire, like there's alwaysthat urge, like people will
reach out to you like, yeah, wegot this opportunity.
Would you ever consider like,if it's like such an amazing
opportunity, amazing opportunitythere's, like there's no way I
can turn this, and would youconsider it under them circles,
under those circumstances?
Kacie Luaders (11:49):
there's a possibility.
That's kind of how I'm backthis year.
I didn't do.
I didn't do any shows last yearin 2023, because I was like,
yeah, I'm done.
I did two shows in 2022 justbecause everything had been, you
know, shut down and people werejust starting to like reach
back out again.
But yeah, it's just a differenttype of time commitment than
(12:10):
podcasting.
I would say like we can do somuch virtually with podcasting,
with live theater, you have tobe in the space, you have to be
at the rehearsal, you have to goto the, you know, and so doing
that in addition to doingpodcasting, it's just like never
stop working life, which I'm nolonger about as I am continuing
(12:34):
my journey into my 30s.
So, yeah, yeah.
Sidney Evans (12:39):
Yeah, and we're going to get into.
Obviously there's that whenyou're young and you kind of you
got to like you really got tohustle, you know there's a
season for us, like you just gotto try to get as much done as
possible, whether it's you knowworking two jobs or you know
pulling all-nighters, or youknow little bit older, that you
got to strike more of a balance.
And it's not about like notwanting to do the work, it's
(13:07):
that so you're in the rightspace to do it efficiently and
effectively.
And I'll touch on that a littlebit more as we get a little
further in your story.
But I do want to back up andkind of transition to to where
you were doing the admin artstuff, to you know to make a
living and you were doing livesound design, live stuff.
(13:29):
When did podcasting come onyour radar?
Kacie Luaders (13:34):
You know I've heard about podcasts and you
know I had friends from, youknow, the sound design program
who were starting to jump intopodcasts and really they were
the ones who were telling me,like you know, the sound design
program who were starting tojump into podcasts, and really
they were the ones who weretelling me, like you know, circa
2016, 2017, like you know, thispodcast and stuff, like it's
going to be really big, it'sgoing to explode.
And I'm not someone who listensto a lot of stuff for
(13:57):
recreation, right, because youknow we always got the cans on.
I'm always doing something.
I wasn't listening to podcastsat the time.
I was like, okay, whatever.
So in 2019, one of the artisticdirectors at a theater that I've
worked for before basicallyjust shot me a DM and was like
hey, I don't know if you dopodcasts, but Spotify is doing
(14:19):
this thing for women of color,but Spotify is doing this thing
for women of color to like,basically, workshop and learn
about podcasting.
And you know, if this issomething you're interested in,
like you should, you should tryit.
So I applied again.
I didn't know what I was doingor talking about, but
fortunately, I would say becauseof my audio background, I did
(14:41):
get in and so in I want to sayit was August of 2019, went out
to the Spotify headquarters inNew York.
It was myself and nine otherwomen.
We just kind of learned likecrash course about so much about
podcasting and kind ofworkshops, an idea for a pilot
(15:02):
for one of our own shows.
But yeah, I came back home andwas like OK, cool, that's a
great thing for me to know atsome point and went back to my
day gig and didn't think aboutit until 2020.
Sidney Evans (15:18):
So maybe, like a year later, was when you were
like, ok, I'm going to applywhat I learned at this
accelerator and try to attemptto create something.
So, so what was that first thing?
Cause a lot of times in people'sstories, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a
big junkie on, like you know,biographies, documentaries, like
learning the process of howpeople got to to where they were
(15:38):
and, interestingly enough, likethe thing that you that they
blew up on, it's usually not thefirst, their first attempt at
whether it's somebody who'shoning over a record label.
They might've signed an act thatdidn't sell anything, but you
never heard about it.
So you think you know, like the, the crisscrosses and the TLCs,
like you, you hear about themand you're like, oh okay, this
(16:01):
is their, like the first actthat they signed and it blew up.
It was like, nah, they probablyhad a lot of smaller acts that
didn't work out and we're justweren't aware of it.
But now, because things notbecause they're successful we
think, okay, they just jumped toit and it just went from A to Z
, just like that.
So what was the first thingthat you produced, and was that,
(16:23):
in fact, the first thing thatkind of got you on the radar
once you made that transition ina podcast.
Kacie Luaders (16:29):
Sure, so the first original podcast that I
made was like a three episodelimited series thing, that.
So, just to kind of step back alittle bit, 2020, april 2020,
got laid off from my full-timeday gig because of the pandemic,
and then at the time I was onlike maybe four theater shows
(16:54):
and of course, everything shutdown, so I literally had nothing
to do sitting in the house.
Sitting in the house, but myalma mater, scad, they put out a
call to do a virtual likealumni fellowship basically, and
they were like you know we canrun this fellowship, but you
know we can't go on campus.
(17:14):
So if someone has an idea, analum for an art project or a
media project that can be donevirtually, you know you should
apply.
And during this time you know,in addition to pandemic, this
was also the summer of, you know, the racial reckoning sitting
in the house all day watchingthat it was just like I would
(17:39):
like to do some sort of projectabout this, and so my pitch to
them was a podcast called WhiteAngle, where I had a white
documentarian who had made afilm about some sort of black
injustice.
So you know whether it wassomething that happened in the
past, something that was currentand I paired them with a black
(18:02):
filmmaker and it was basicallyjust a time for them to have a
discussion.
The Black filmmaker will watchthe white filmmaker's movie and
they could just have aconversation.
Because my, I guess, theory was,if you're in that world and
making a film but you're not ofthat culture, you do definitely
(18:25):
have a perspective as an artist.
But what kind of likeconversation can we have about
it?
Like no name calling, no shade,as just people to really like
dive into what being astoryteller about a culture that
you don't belong to actuallymeans.
And it was chill, everyone wasrespectful, everyone was, you
(18:46):
know, walked away hopefullyfeeling like oh yes, this was a
great conversation to have.
So it was done sort of like anacademic project in a way,
wasn't released widely, it wasjust on like a little standalone
website.
But that was the first thingwhere I actually was like I have
an idea, I'm going to pitch myidea, I'm going to find people
(19:09):
to cast in this idea, I'm goingto edit it, I'm going to publish
it.
That was my first podcast.
Sidney Evans (19:16):
Okay, so a word that's standing out to me is
pitch.
So a lot of times I justcreatives, focus more on the
creative and the technical, andobviously there's a lot of
writing involved and but that'skind of you know, working in the
thing.
(19:36):
But the pitching part is like awhole different beast in itself
, and I don't know if the starsjust align for you properly or
what, but it seems like once youenter things, once you have to
apply for things, like it justworks out for you.
So is there something inparticular that you learned or,
um, that you found particularlyhelpful that has assisted you
(19:58):
when you are presenting yourpitches that are getting the
responses and the and theleading to the opportunities?
Or is it I don't know just alike your knack for storytelling
?
Um, there, obviously there'ssomething there that you have
that, um, other people couldbenefit from learning about or
you highlighting.
So I'm curious to know formyself, but I'm sure the
(20:21):
listeners are curious to know aswell.
Like what, what is it aboutpitching that makes you stand
out from the crowd?
Kacie Luaders (20:28):
So I would say pitching is definitely, it's a
little art, it's a littlescience, it's a lot of luck.
For every successful thing thatI have pitched, or every
successful program I've gotteninto thing that I have pitched
or every successful program I'vegotten into, I guarantee you
there were 10 or 15 rejectionsthat I got beforehand or at the
(20:48):
same time.
So what I'm learning with audiospecifically is I try to figure
out first of all, like, who amI talking to?
And if they were to give memoney, support a platform, how
is this going to benefit themthe most?
Because I mean real talk.
(21:09):
No one's going to give youanything unless they're going to
get something from it.
And then the second thing thatI typically try to do is I try
to, like if I come up with anidea, I try to just do, you know
, a little quick, little Googleand see what other people have
done about the same topic andthen try to go in a direction
that hasn't been approachedbefore.
Sidney Evans (21:31):
You got to come over.
You kind of try to come throughthe.
It's like guerrilla warfare.
Yeah, a little bit, you kind ofsee where like OK, this is,
this is what they're expecting,so let me go off of that a
little bit.
Kacie Luaders (21:46):
I've never thought of as guerrilla warfare,
but I mean, I guess in someways, yes, you know you don't
want to pitch something thatalready exists.
But I also, you know some people, a lot of people, say like, oh,
we don't need any more podcastsabout this because they're
already, you know, 100, 1000 outthere.
I believe that everyone'sindividual perspective is so
(22:06):
important and so if you find asubject or a topic that, like
everybody's already talkingabout, figuring out how to
approach it from your uniqueperspective and in a way that
other people aren't approachingit, you just have to kind of
like carve that space foryourself within a given topic or
genre.
And so, yeah, figuring out howto do that is probably my next
(22:31):
thing.
And then I will say, you know,just trying to, I realize, if
there's something with likeapplications and you got to
write essay questions and youknow people don't want to read a
lot.
So how can you say what youwant to say, to grab the
attention, to make the point asconcisely as possible?
(22:54):
I would say is a big thing tofigure out, because they they
not trying to read a lot.
Sidney Evans (23:01):
But the editing is the most important part, like
you you've had like in order tomake it concise and it's not
just word vomit and, you know,make sure you're not overusing
words or whatever like.
If you you don't have to be thethe greatest at the original
idea, but if you edit it verywell, you, you can present
(23:22):
yourself in a much better lightfor somebody to absorb it and be
concise and not check out whatI'm reading.
So I do want to share that.
But you also mentioned carvinga space for yourself, so we're
going to jump ahead to you HeardMe Right which is?
You mentioned your firstproduction, but I think, like
this one is the kind of the onethat was OK, I got something, it
(23:44):
was.
It was accepted and appreciatedmore widely than the first show
you mentioned, which was WhiteAngle.
Kacie Luaders (23:51):
You said that is correct.
Sidney Evans (23:53):
OK, so you explain , like the, the, the idea for
you Heard Me Right the processand like, I guess, the accolades
of reception that you got fromit.
And what was it like?
You know navigating all youknow from conception to the
production, to putting it outand marketing it, and you know,
(24:14):
allowing people to consume it towhere it was appreciated.
Kacie Luaders (24:17):
Sure.
So yes, as I mentioned being apart of the Spotify SoundUp
Accelerator, we all developed apitch for a show, a podcast, and
pitched that at the end of theprogram, and so the top four
pitches in my cohort receivedfunding to make a pilot episode
(24:38):
of their show.
We were not one of those topfour so again, it was just kind
of like, oh, this is great, youknow, great experience and
opportunity.
Maybe at some point I'll dothis show.
But you know, back to reality.
So this was another sitting inthe house, 2020.
Like when I had gotten backfrom the program, you know, I
(25:00):
said you know, I'm going to tryto make this eventually.
So I got a couple of my friendstogether, did a very bare bones
like scratch version demo ofwhat you Hurt Me Right could be,
and I put it away for months,didn't do any editing, didn't
tell anybody.
It was just like, okay,whatever.
So, yeah, I'm sitting in thehouse.
(25:20):
I was like, well, you know,okay, whatever.
So, yeah, I'm sitting in thehouse.
I was like, well, you know,edit this, I'll send it back to
the folks at Spotify from theprogram.
Really, I was just looking fornotes Because, again, I don't
know what a podcast was, andthis was actually even before
White Angle started.
So I literally was like justbored coming up with ideas at
(25:40):
the same time.
And things started going inproduction later that year.
But, yeah, I sent the demo andsomebody got back to me and was
like, oh, we like it.
Like you know, we want to pickit up, but we're shut down for
doing productions because youknow, pandemic.
And so they were like, if youcan figure out how to do it,
(26:02):
then sure we'll distribute it.
So I think I would say a lot ofmy training in theater came in
handy with the figuring out howto do it.
Part the show.
You Heard Me Right?
It is a art making podcastwhere we have groups of three
(26:22):
working on a project togetheranonymously and then they come
together and talk about it livefor the first time on the show.
And we knew that at the time wecouldn't just like bring groups
of people into a recordingstudio because pandemic.
And so basically I was like, ifwe can't figure out how to do
(26:44):
this outside, everybody 10 feetaway, whatever Y'all got to
remember, this is 2020, likeJune, july, when just everything
was popping in the whole thickof it.
We didn't know what was going on.
I was like, if we can't figureout how to do this safely, like
I'm not doing it.
And so it was a combination oflike my team, myself and then
(27:07):
Spotify for actually letting uslike do it Whatever, like okay.
So we found an Airbnb outsideof Atlanta.
We set up mics and everythinglike outside in the backyard and
we have people come in likestraight through the, the, the
backyard.
We recorded the episode likethe first season.
(27:27):
You hear all the ambiencebecause you can't, you can't
edit that out um, I want to, Iwant to.
Sidney Evans (27:34):
I want to pause because I want to.
I want to highlight something.
It's interesting how sometimes,like where there's lack of
resources or the particularcircumstances you in allow you
to be more creative than youmaybe would have otherwise.
So just think about, forexample, like the creation of
hip hop is like, okay, well, uh,black people live in the city,
in the city.
Like, we can't, we don't knowabout how to play instruments,
(27:57):
and even if we did, we don'thave access to the actual
instruments to get everybody tocome in and record, do all this
type of stuff.
So it was like okay, well,we're just going to.
You know, we all, all ourparents, have all these soul and
funk records.
We're just going to sample themand then just add our twist to
it and within that they birthedlike the most popular genre of
(28:17):
music that everybody thought wasa fad.
But look at it now.
So the fact that you were ableto be creative, to be able to
get it recorded and done outsideand then you can hear the
ambiance, like that sets a wholedifferent tone and mood to it
than if you're in the studio andit's just silent, cause that
kind of creates more realism.
It kind of puts you in thespace more, it's more immersive.
(28:39):
So I'm sure that added anelement that wouldn't have been
there otherwise, had it, youknow it not been pandemic if it
would have been under nocircumstances.
So I just wanted to add that.
Sorry to interrupt.
You may continue.
Kacie Luaders (28:52):
Oh no, you're fine.
I was just going to say likethat's definitely like what I
meant by like I think a lot ofthe live theater kicked in
because there's zero money intheater.
Like you will be poor everyonelistening if you go into theater
, and so that's kind of what Iwas used to.
I was used to working withshoestring budgets.
I was used to, you know, peoplelike well, we can't afford this
(29:14):
prop, so we're just going tohave to take this thing and
stick a feather on it andimagine that it's a chick.
And imagine that it's a chick.
You know, that's kind of a lotof the approach that I bring to
my podcasting, which in someways is like bad.
You're not supposed to approachyour stuff with a scarcity
mentality, but you know it'smore of like a resourcefulness
(29:34):
to your point of having tofigure out how to make it happen
One day.
I would like to not have to dothat.
So if anyone just wants to likewrite me checks to do things, I
will accept that.
Sidney Evans (29:46):
An unlimited budget would be preferred, but
we can make it work otherwise.
Kacie Luaders (29:50):
Exactly, exactly, like I would not complain.
But yeah, figuring it outsomehow is a superpower of many
creatives superpower of manycreatives.
Sidney Evans (30:05):
Okay, so was that what led you to you know, get
all this like media and newscoverage and stuff like that?
I know you've been.
You've been highlighted in alot of things.
You know me being, you know,the the curious and wanting to
be as most prepared host that Ican be had to do my research
prior, and you have beenhighlighted in a lot of
publications platforms.
As I mentioned earlier, you'rehighly requested guests for
(30:26):
other podcasts as well as thisone.
Is there something that was anarea of emphasis that you wanted
to get PR and coverage on thetype of stuff that you're doing,
or did it kind of happenorganically?
Kacie Luaders (30:39):
I would say it was probably a combination of
just the fact that it was like aSpotify show that certainly
didn't hurt with the fact thatit was something that was kind
of weird and different.
And so, if nothing else, Ithink people maybe checked it
out to be like what is this?
So yeah, I think it was.
(30:59):
It was a combination of factors.
So yeah, I think it was acombination of factors, but
really, in some ways, I was justhappy to again go from I have
an idea to we're going to makethe thing, to we're going to put
it out, and then all the otherstuff that came after was like
(31:20):
bonus.
But actually figuring out howto do it, I think, was the
highlight for me.
Sidney Evans (31:26):
There's no other way to do it but to do it.
So to fast forward a little bitto what you have going on now
could be pretty cool.
Was this during the time youheard me right Was this idea
that you had at all Like, wereyou kind of making those putting
it away, coming back to it?
Or was it something like okay,I'm done with this, I've
(31:51):
squeezed as much out of theSpotify produced you heard me
right and it's time to move onto the next thing?
Or was it something that youhad kind of laid a soft
foundation for and you knew thatit would be something that a
time will come where you have tofocus on it?
Kacie Luaders (32:03):
Yeah, great question.
Definitely more of the softfoundation.
I went to a panel in Atlanta of, like, women in tech.
I went for the free food, but Iactually listened to the panel
and all of them said somethinglike you know, while you have
your full-time job, that's whenyou work on your side hustle
Like don't be quitting yourfull-time job.
(32:24):
To like go ahead first into thething that's going to make you
poor and unhappy all the time,like build alongside your
whatever.
And so I was like, oh, that's agood point.
I don't actually have a sidehustle and I don't know if I
want one, but I should probablyhave one.
I think I'll start one.
So, yeah, I think December of2019 is when I actually
(32:44):
registered my LLC and again, Idid not know what it was going
to be, but I was like, yeah,this could be pretty cool.
That's what it's called now.
So I had the bones in place tobe structured Again as an LLC.
I did the business bank account.
So I, on paper, was a businesswhich, once I did get laid off
(33:09):
in April 2020, and once thingsstarted happening, it almost was
kind of like perfect timing,because the even the program
that I worked or that where Iwas a fellow at SCAD, my school,
they were like oh, you know, doyou have an LLC?
In order to provide, you know,funding and support, you have to
be an LLC.
And I was like, oh, I justhappened to kind of have one of
(33:31):
those, I guess, and so it reallywasn't until around the time
all of this was happening whereI was like, oh, I should
probably like have a website, Ishould probably start getting
the handles on the social places.
So it was a lot of building theparachute.
After I'd already kind ofjumped out, and you know, to
(33:54):
your point, after 2020, 2021,2022, the opportunities started
not being as plentiful.
I will say, now I have thisthing that I still own, that I
now have some projects under,and so it was time to figure out
how to actually leverage thisinto a business.
Sidney Evans (34:16):
Okay.
So, yeah, highlight as far as,like, the how you laid it out to
actually be a sustainablebusiness.
Break down what exactly is likethe mission and the goal for
could be pretty cool.
And I guess, in explaining themission, you'll get into the
fusion of the audio storytellingand data analytics, which I'm
(34:37):
extremely curious about, becausethat world is a bit unfamiliar
to me as far as combining theaudio and the data.
So can you break that down?
Kacie Luaders (34:47):
Sure.
So, yes, initially the missionwas like keep letting corporate
media people write us checks tomake our own stuff, but that was
not a sustainable business plan, and so what we do now
primarily is we work on podcastsfor organizations.
(35:07):
So we're working on a podcastfor Bard College, which is in
upstate New York, working onpodcasts for nonprofit
organizations, and we reallysort of shifted our business
focus from just like let's makeCasey's creative projects to
let's figure out how to makepodcasts a way for organizations
(35:28):
to tell stories about theirorganization, collect research
and data about theirorganizations, but then to be
able to share that out in a waythat isn't just like we wrote
this report.
That's in a PDF on our website.
We're making data-drivencontent, and so that's right now
what keeps the lights on peace.
(35:50):
But we also now have anin-house podcast we produce
Could Be Pretty Cool News whichis a podcast that's all about
creative entrepreneurship.
On the journey that we were onthat we're still on Just met so
many fascinating people graphicspeople, writers, people who do
(36:11):
styling and fashion and everyonehas like a different story, but
a similar story when it comesto trying to stay creative and
trying to stay in tune with,like what's happening
artistically, but also trying tofigure out how to write
invoices and contracts and dotaxes.
(36:33):
And so the entire premise of theshow is just talking to folks
either who are experts in thecreator economy, academics,
people who you know work in likeecosystem building spaces where
they're collaborating with abunch of creators, and then also
telling narrative stories ofdifferent creators and how they
(36:54):
got started, what they're doing,their views on just how this
life can be sustainable for usall, maybe one day, and so
that's like the passion projectthat I'm really enjoying right
now.
That's led to differentopportunities.
I wouldn't say from the podcastitself.
(37:14):
Necessarily, we have a verymodest audience, but people who
do tune in you know, or knowthat it exists, can say like,
hey, can you come teach thisworkshop?
Or hey, can you come, you know,do this other thing.
So it's been okay, it's beenfine.
Sidney Evans (37:33):
So that's.
That's.
That's amazing.
Two things I think is I'm gladyou like, like this podcast
obviously is highlighting Blackmen and women in the audio space
specifically.
Yours is more broad, fromcreators in general, which I'm
glad because you know could bepretty cool.
Uh, news, you need a cover art.
Okay, you need somebody who cando graphic design.
Obviously you have the audiochops and and I had the audio
(37:56):
chops.
So you know we cover a largeportion of that in itself.
But, um, people have abackground in marketing.
You have to market the podcastand not even just with our
platforms.
Um, whatever business you'redoing, like you can't you have
to be a media company now, likeyou're gonna have to have a
creative storytelling aspect ofyour company now to like to
(38:16):
merge them, to have all thosepeople intertwined in one
environment, one setting.
I feel like it's beneficial forall.
And then also, a lot of thetimes, like you're so immersed
in your particular field.
Like you, kind of everything isjust like on your feet in your
field.
So you're, that's the worldthat you live, you're seeing all
(38:37):
of that, but then you have tostep out.
It was okay.
Well, if you're in constantlyin that world, like everybody
kind of knows the same stuff.
To a certain extent, you got tostep outside and connect with
people outside of that, becausethat that's where you can
present a lot of your value,because they aren't as familiar
with that world.
So it's a learning tool forthem and it's an it's a teaching
(38:59):
opportunity for you and viceversa.
If you step out to another world, whether it's a teaching
opportunity for you and viceversa, if you step out to
another world whether it's, Idon't know, finance or let's
just stick with finance you gooutside of that.
Obviously, as someone who hastheir own LLC and their own
company, that stuff is veryimportant because the Uncle Sam
don't play.
So you know you want to manageyour money well, you make sure
you're paying your taxes, youwant to make sure you dot your
(39:21):
i's and cross all your t's andyou know, by connecting with
people in that world, you knowthey can provide system helpful
things.
You may not be able to, at acertain point, hire a
professional to do all that onits own, but you can gain a lot,
a lot of valuable information.
Whether they have a podcast orin the content that they uh put
out and share on their socialmedia is tips that you can apply
(39:43):
to your business.
So you kind of have to expandyour horizons and not to kind of
just get stuck on theparticular field that you're in.
So I'm glad you have createdthat, so you're doing those
amazing things with pretty cooland you've got a lot of support.
One thing also that you createdthat I want to highlight really
quickly is Wallacraft.
(40:05):
Quickly explain it and whatthat experience was like.
Kacie Luaders (40:09):
Sure.
So Wallacraft is actually thebrainchild of one of my frequent
creative collaborators, cooperSkinner, who, going back to like
White Angle, going back to likewhite angle, being in a space
in the entertainment industrywhere it's different people,
different cultures, working onstories about different people,
different cultures cooper, whois not a black person, was
(40:30):
working on a narrative podcastthat was a black narrative, a
black experience, and there wereso many specific settings that
were like, you know, a redlobster in the hood or like
girls twerking in a parking lot,where he was kind of like what
sounds?
Are these, Like what?
(40:51):
This isn't something that's ina library, and so I thought it
was kind of hilarious.
But it also started gettingmore prevalent Storytelling as
more diverse stories were beingtold.
It's like we need these soundsto exist or else we're not going
to be able to make this work,and so that's where the idea for
Black Wallapack came from,accessible and available to
(41:26):
everyone to help tell Blackstories.
So we spent two days in thestudio with eight Atlanta actors
and actresses, actors I thinkeverybody's just actors now and
we just were putting themthrough different scenarios.
So it's like, you know,praising, catching the Holy
Ghost in church and go, or youknow, at a party, at a
restaurant, and just got thisreally rich sounding walla that
(41:47):
you can tell like, oh, these areBlack people.
And so the project is stillvery much ongoing.
Actually, the one play that Imentioned that I did a couple
months ago, I used some Blackwalla pack stuff in it it is a
Black narrative and so, yeah,our hope is to identify other
cultures or other ways tocapture audio from groups who
(42:11):
may not always be represented instock audio and to have that
content available so that,hopefully, as more of those
stories are being told, we'llhave the support and posts to be
able to make them toldauthentically.
So it's wacky but it'snecessary.
Sidney Evans (42:31):
Very necessary.
I'm glad you saw the need forthat and made it happen, so it
is available for purchase.
How can people purchase it?
Yes, you can go toWallacraftcom is available for
purchase.
How can?
Uh, the sound pack?
How can?
How can
Kacie Luaders (42:43):
Yes, um, you can go to wallacraft.
com, um.
Black walla pack and yes, isthere.
You can download a sample ifyou want to.
You know, get get a little demofirst.
But yeah, our hope and goalwith that again is to start
representing folks in audio whooften aren't represented right
(43:03):
now.
So stay tuned.
Sidney Evans (43:06):
I appreciate you, Kacie.
Yeah, we've covered a lot,highlighted some things.
Obviously, there's a lot toeveryone's story, so we can't
hit on everything in particular,but I do appreciate you sharing
what you have shared.
This is another full circlemoment for us.
Going back to my introductionto you at Black Pie Fest, and
(43:27):
I'm glad you were able to join.
But before we close out, howcan people find you on all the
things the website, socials howcan they support what you're
doing and anything else that youwant to highlight that may be
upcoming or on the horizon, andanything else that you want
Kacie Luaders (43:43):
Sure thing.
So we're at Could Pretty CoolCool mean, I think we're only
on IG and threads sometimes, butLinkedIn very active on there
Couldbeprettycoolcom.
If you happen to be going topodcast movement in August, I'll
be around, but, yeah, alwayslooking for folks to chat with
(44:06):
and, as Sydney mentioned, if Isee opportunities that I think a
creator could benefit from, Ijust slap it on up on my stories
, because that's how so manythings that I have received have
come to me Somebody sliding aDM or somebody just posting and
so I think paying it forward isdefinitely the move.
Sidney Evans (44:28):
So, yeah, All right, yeah, make sure you all
go check out what she has goingon.
All things could be pretty cooland beyond.
Once again, thank you, casey.
I appreciate you joining me fortoday's episode.
For those listening, I willcatch you on the next episode.
Super appreciative to anyonewho's listened to this episode
(44:49):
or previous episodes.
And, yeah, I'll catch you onthe next one.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode.
Please don't forget to subscribeto the show and leave us a
review.
If you'd like to work with meor connect, please go to
soundbysitcom and schedule acall there.
(45:10):
You can also check out the fulllist of productions I've worked
on.
If you'd like to connect onsocial media, my handle is
soundbysitcom on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
on LinkedIn.
I said dot com on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
on LinkedIn.
Don't forget to follow beyondthe threshold on Instagram as
well.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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