September 1, 2024 • 48 mins
Text Beyond the Threshold w/ your thoughts or questions!
In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans welcomes former colleague, Dontae "DonzPressPlay" Hodge, a multi-award-winning audio engineer.
In this episode they discuss:
- His early classical piano training and growing up in the British Virgin Islands
- His experience as an from an unpaid intern to a sought-after engineer, to a pivot into audiobook production.
- The profound impact of genuine relationships and character in the audio industry.
- The art of negotiation, understanding your value, and the significance of faith and family.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dontae Hodge (00:01):
Every pivot point and every opportunity that I
listed in my story started witha relationship.
At Treesound, I build arelationship with that person.
They saw me working.
They put me on a sessionbecause of the relationship,
they trusted me saying, yes, Ican work pro tools.
They never saw me work protools.
They came from me having arelationship with the owner of
the studio, with the director ofproduction tune in as we give
(00:22):
flowers to black men and womenmaking waves in the audio
industry.
Sidney Evans (00:26):
I'm your host, sidney Evans, and this is Beyond
the Threshold.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen,to Beyond the Threshold.
I'm your host, sidney Evans, anaward-winning audio editor and
(00:49):
producer.
For those of you who don't know, this show is dedicated to
interviewing Black men and womenworking in the audio industry,
while highlighting the lessonsand experiences it takes to
achieve success in the field.
We are back for another episode.
Achieve success in the field.
We are back for another episode.
(01:09):
Our first conversation with theguest previously was with Ashley
Hobbs.
We had a great interview, a lotof great gems and lessons to be
learned, so I hope you all goback and check that out, as well
as the podcast teaser andepisode zero, which kind of
tells my story and what led tome starting the podcast.
(01:29):
But I'm not going to bore youwith details of things in the
past.
We're going to focus on thepresent.
Today I have a former colleagueof mine who, unfortunately, I
didn't get to know as well as Iwould have liked at the time.
But we're going to get into allthe nitty gritty of it today in
this conversation.
So to give you a bit ofbackground on him.
(01:51):
He is a multi award winningaudio engineer whose expertise
on the music side includes musicproduction, composition and
classical piano.
His experience also encompassesadditional audio disciplines,
including audio books,voiceovers, podcasts, live sound
and film.
He has used his talents toserve an illustrious clientele,
(02:11):
including Stacey Abrams, cocoJones, martin Luther King III,
coca-cola Ambassador AndrewYoung, kevin Hart Mace, amongst
others.
But without further ado, Iwould like to introduce Dante
Haas.
Mr Press Play himself.
Welcome to the show, brother.
Dontae Hodge (02:29):
How are you, thank you, thank you.
I'm well, man.
I'm thankful to be here.
Thank you for the invite.
I'm so happy that you're doingthis because I feel like enough
people in the industry who areactually doing the thing.
They don't do enough of theactual thing and just showcasing
what we do, talking about thepeople doing it.
So when you told me about this,I was first of all thankful and
(02:50):
grateful that you thought of me, but also happy that you're
doing this.
So proud of you, man, happy tobe here, and thank you for the
introduction.
Sidney Evans (02:57):
Yes, sir, Appreciate it.
Yeah, this platform, it'ssomething that I wish that would
have been out there when I gotfirst started.
Obviously, this is more gearedtowards black people working in
the field, but, from the fieldin general, we're so focused on
like the technical and creativestuff of doing our job that we
don't really put an emphasis onlike sharing our experiences.
(03:19):
And you know, this is not aneasy industry to be in by any
means.
This is not an easy industry tobe in by any means.
So anything that we can kind ofhighlight and give game on to
help the people who, no matterwhether you're you know up and
coming, whether you've been done, you're doing it and you want
to continue to be at the top ofyour game, I feel like this is
very due and necessary.
(03:40):
So, yes, sir, so to kind of getthe ball rolling, man, I just
want to kind of know a littlebit about like your background,
your upbringing, where you'refrom, like what was young Dante,
like what were his you knowpassions and what kind of led
(04:00):
you to having that bug plantedin you to pursue this as a
career.
So if you could go into alittle detail about that, I
would appreciate it?
Dontae Hodge (04:11):
Yeah, no, thank you for the question.
It's a great question.
Um, man, so it started.
Well, I'll take you furtherback, right?
So I was probably eight or nine,maybe younger, when I started
playing classical piano.
It was something I didn'tnecessarily want to do, but, you
know, thankfully I was livingin the British Virgin Islands
(04:34):
which is where I'm from, andwith my mom, and she just wanted
me to be exposed to as manythings as possible, which I'm
super grateful for that, becauseit wasn't something that I knew
I needed or wanted, butobviously end up serving me well
later on.
So I did classical piano,learned to play by ear and to
read theory, but mostly play byear, which you know, I have my
(04:56):
feelings about that.
And then that would kind oflead to me just always being
around music and then doing itin high school.
And I kind of have the classicstory where I started rapping in
high school and, because I wasthe person that was already kind
of technical, I played music, Ikind of produced music, I
(05:17):
became the engineer foreverybody, right, even though I
didn't necessarily know thatthat's what I was doing at the
time, even though I didn'tnecessarily know that that's
what I was doing at the time.
I just became that guy.
So I was messing with programslike GarageBand, mixcraft what's
that one, is it Sonar?
And then my mom would later getme Pro Tools and a MacBook with
(05:42):
Logic and that would change mylife like truly, because I now
teach at SAE, which is a schoollocal here to Atlanta audio
engineering school and I alwaystell them, you know, I was
fortunate to have startedworking in Pro Tools in high
school, which I'm 31 now, sothat's, you know, over 15 years
ago at this point.
So yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere it started.
(06:03):
And then I realized that it wasa thing that I could do.
I found a school by the name ofFull Sail University.
My mom was kind of all in on medoing whatever I was passionate
about, even though I had a fullride scholarship to do
competition sailing at anotherschool, because that's another
thing I did in high school.
I was into competition sailingand I represented the BVI and
(06:25):
was the top sailor in the BVI.
But my mom was kind of justsupportive of me doing whatever
I was passionate about.
We went and toured Full Sailand that put the stamp on it.
I was like this is what I wantto do with my life and the rest
is kind of history.
I went to Full Sail, got mybachelor's in recording arts and
started working in the industry.
I was 19 when I started in theindustry your experience at full
(06:49):
cell was for to be.
Sidney Evans (06:50):
Have been in that time frame was very important
because obviously, like you said, you got into it for music and
it was right in the middle ofthe transition from like the old
, it was digital.
You know, people weren't umusing like the analog stuff the
more so.
What was your like?
What did what did they?
What did they teach you?
As far as that, was it likethey?
They wanted to show you likethe, the old school way of doing
(07:12):
things, so you can have thatfoundation, but emphasize, like
that, this is where it was going.
Or were they kind of likepurists, whereas I don't really
care what's going on in thefuture as far as digital, this
is how we learn, this is what weteach and no matter the state
of the industry, we're going toteach it this certain way.
So was it either this or that,or was it like a combination of
(07:35):
the two?
Dontae Hodge (07:36):
Yeah, no, it was this and that.
And that's the cool thing aboutFull Sail, and I believe they
still have these principles evenover a decade later, where they
teach the foundationalprinciples on analog.
They still have all of theiranalog consoles.
So they have SSL 9000J, whichis still, to this day, my
favorite console.
So I have every SSL 9000Jplugin that exists because of my
(08:00):
time at Full Sail and justlearning signal flow on that
console.
So it was this and that.
Like we learned signal flowfrom a console perspective and
then learn how to apply that toPro Tools or any DAW and how the
two are one in the same,because Pro Tools is built on
the principles of tape, ofconsoles.
(08:21):
So that's how we learn and evento this day, that's how I teach
my students.
Even though SAE's curriculum isa little bit different, I still
always take the curriculum andmake it make sense to where I'm
showing them.
Hey, this is where it startedand this is how it relates to
Pro Tools or any DAW.
This is why Pro Signal flowsfrom the top to the bottom.
(08:43):
This is why it works like this.
This is why it ends up.
You know what I'm saying?
So Fose was definitely this andthat, and I'm so thankful for
that because, you know, to thisday, even when I mix records,
it's like I want to have thatanalog sound.
You know this past studio thatI used to work at they had a SSL
Matrix and I would always sumto that console when I was
(09:07):
mixing music.
Just because we're kind of likethe last generation that is
coming up.
That came up that way Cause alot of the new, newer engineers
their introduction is alldigital, you know, and I think
it's important to kind of knowwhere we came from.
So I lean into that when I'mteaching people.
Sidney Evans (09:25):
That's great man.
As far as me, I'm a little bitolder than you but I do not have
as traditional of a backgroundin audio.
I was kind of mostlyself-taught.
I guess my initial pursuit was,or my initial interest in audio
in general was because of music, and that's kind of how I
learned all the foundationaltools.
(09:46):
And obviously we workedtogether at a podcast production
company.
So eventually you did make thetransition from music to
podcasting.
But that's jumping the gun alittle bit.
I do want to know more about.
Like okay, you figured out whatyour thing was, you went to
school for it, you got theknowledge, you got the
foundation for it.
(10:06):
So what was your experiencelike, actually jumping into the
industry and actually working?
Because whether you're studyingengineering, whether you go to
school, get your undergraddegree in business, whether you
get an MBA, there's aneducational world and then
there's the real world where youhave to apply all this stuff
(10:27):
and the speed at which thingshappen is much faster than the
learning process and it's just awhole different game.
So what was that like for youactually working in the music
industry?
Dontae Hodge (10:40):
Yeah, wow.
So one thing I want to saybefore I jump to that question
is you touched on somethingthat's like a hot topic and I
get people asking me all thetime like should I go to school,
should I just get into theindustry?
And I just want to touch onthat really quickly because I
feel like people watching thismight have that same question.
Because we're a good example oftwo people who did it two
(11:02):
different ways but ended up inthe same place, right.
We're a good example of twopeople who did it two different
ways but ended up in the sameplace, right, and I think that's
just the reality of it.
Like there's no right answer.
I would say if you have theresources to go to school, and
it makes sense, go to school.
But also you don't have to goto school, right.
Like you know, I ended upinterning at a studio when I
first got out and that couldhave easily have been my route
(11:23):
without school, right, I couldhave just interned at the studio
and get all that experience.
So I would say there's no rightanswer.
It just depends on thesituation.
So I just want to encourageanybody who might be watching
this and they're like okay, Idon't have the money to go to
school, that's fine.
Go intern at a studio, find amentor.
So I just wanted to say that.
So now to get to where itstarted.
(11:43):
It started here in Atlanta at astudio called Tree Sound Studio
.
So I graduated in 2012, movedhere to Atlanta.
The reason I moved here is mydad lived here, so it made sense
.
I had somebody to stay with.
It just was a financially sounddecision because I was offered
an engineering job in Miami butthe numbers didn't make sense
for the cost of living in Miami.
(12:04):
It just didn't make sense.
So I moved here, startedinterning at Shreesound Studios
and, man, it happened quicklyfor me.
I came in and I was doinganything that was needed, like
scrubbing floors, doing runs tothe gas station, runs to
wherever was needed.
And there were some people atTreesound who saw that work
(12:28):
ethic in me.
And one day we were justsitting down and he was like hey
, can you work Pro Tools?
I was like, yeah, I can workPro Tools and he put me in my
first like pro session in myfirst week at Treesound.
It was with this artist hername is Iggy Azalea and it just
happened quickly from there.
It was like David Banner whowas working with Coco Jones at
the time, cy High of the Prince.
(12:50):
It was just a lot of people ina little bit of time.
But what I quickly realized isthere was this weird balance
between me still being an intern, me not being on staff.
So I was working on all thesesessions being requested by all
these artists, but I wasn'tgetting paid.
I wasn't getting credit for alot of the stuff that I was
working on.
So it was just a really weirddynamic that I was seeing
(13:12):
happening.
And what opened my eyes is oneday I wasn't at the studio and
Mace, the artist Mace he calledthe studio because I had been
working with him and he was likehe only wanted to work with me.
He was like he only wanted towork with me.
So at that point I started tokind of realize my value and I
was like, ok, something has tochange.
So I quickly realized that thatsituation wasn't going to turn
into anything.
(13:33):
And then I was trying to work atother studios, you know, just
doing music, and it wasn'treally sticking.
I wasn't really getting inanywhere.
And then I saw this audio bookthing.
And I'm going to be honest, sid, like I did not want to do it,
like I did not want to do it.
I was the music guy, right, Ijust wanted to do music.
(13:53):
But again, I'm just so thankfulfor my mom and her wisdom.
You know she was like, well,why don't you try it?
She was like you're young, likeI'm 19.
She was like, why not try itand see what happens?
The worst thing that can happenis you don't like it and then
you go back to trying to domusic.
And, man, I tried it.
I realized that I was good atit.
(14:14):
The economics was way different.
That payment came on time.
I didn't have to chase anybodydown.
It was just so different and Iwas like, oh, this is what I do
to survive and I can continuepursuing the music as a passion
and doing it as supplemental.
And that's what I ended updoing.
(14:34):
I did that for like a decade.
I would then end up being thehead engineer of that studio,
end up managing that studio, andthen I left to join the company
that we were a part of, where Igot into podcasting, but I'm
getting ahead of myself a littlebit.
So I met the owner of thatcompany that we were working
with, so I'll say the company,frequency Media, michelle Corey.
(14:56):
So I met her through thecompany that I was working at,
lantern Audio.
I'll just say all the companiesyou know that way people know
that this is real right.
So I was working at the studio.
It was Listen Up Audio.
Then they turned into LanternAudio.
So I was the head engineerthere and managed that studio.
I met Michelle Corey at thatstudio.
We kind of connectedimmediately.
(15:17):
I was working on her podcastthat was being produced at the
studio at the time and we justkind of connected and you know
we would have lunch, we wouldalways talk, and you know she
had this idea to start aproduction, a podcast production
company.
And she was like man, one daywhen I get it going, I'm going
to come back and I'm going tohire you.
And you know I mean people hadsaid that so many times along my
(15:38):
career and I was just like,okay, yeah, cool, sure, you know
.
And so said, so done.
She built her company up, wasdoing amazing things and I was
doing some contract work withher hand there and then she
brought me on full time and thenI did that for about two years
and it just became time to kindof transition again.
And now here we are.
(15:59):
But in that position we got towork on some cool stuff, some
pretty big podcast with someamazing people, and it kind of
just opened my eyes to the worldof podcast production, which I
now consult people on that andI'm trying to produce on my own
podcast.
So yeah, that's kind of likethe long drawn out story in a
(16:21):
hopefully shortened form, but Idon't know if you have any
additional questions, but that'sthe story yeah, that was uh, it
was very detailed but um, butyou kind of got right to it.
Sidney Evans (16:33):
But I do want to jump back and touch on some
things, because earlier in theconversation I mentioned the
music periods from the analogdays transitioning to the
digital age, but then also therewas this transition to where,
like the budgets and the moneyin the new age of music, it was
like drying up and these peopleare like you know, how can I
(16:57):
continue to use this skill setto have a career?
And then I think that's where itwas another transition period
where, like a lot of the musicpeople came over into the
podcast and audiobook space,which is similar to yours.
The question I want to ask is doyou think you had an advantage
with being young and adaptableand not locked into anything?
(17:18):
As to where, if some somebodywho was maybe, you know, maybe
had a family or 30, 40 years old, obviously they have more of an
economic incentive, but also,the older you are, the more
stubborn you are, and it's likeI have, like all this experience
in the music industry which islike not nearly as accessible as
somebody jumping into the audiobook or podcast space where,
(17:42):
okay, yeah, if you'reself-taught, maybe similar to
what I did.
It might be easier to jump inthose, but if you want to be
self-taught jumping in music,you really really have to have a
different foundation and just atool set that's, I would say
even a skill set, that's deeperand it's kind of more on the fly
and unpredictable.
(18:02):
So do you think, also with theadvice of your mom, who seemed
like she had a lot of wisdom aswell do you think you were more
open-minded than maybe somebodywho had been in the industry for
much longer than you had?
Dontae Hodge (18:14):
Yeah, definitely, man.
I mean because at that time Imean I'm 19.
I'm not worrying about whereI'm asleep.
You know, I had a older carthat I was driving so I didn't
have car payments.
You know, at that time I'mstill like under my dad's car
insurance.
So it's like it was so manythings where it was like I could
make an easy pivot and you knowI might have been getting paid
(18:38):
I don't know $10 an hour at thetime, but I was just like cool,
like it's better than nothing.
So, yeah, that made it reallyeasy to pivot and I would say me
making that pivot changed mylife because I became open to
every other pivot that came.
You know, I was always like, solong as I'm in the industry, it
(19:01):
doesn't have to look like thisthing that I've romanticized in
my head and just kind of seenthe industry changing and riding
that wave.
So seeing podcasting becoming athing and being like, oh, this
makes sense for me to pivot now,you know, seeing audiobooks
becoming a thing and saying thismakes sense for me to pivot now
, so that's kind of changed thetrajectory of my career and it's
(19:25):
kind of shaped where I am rightnow, where it's like I'm trying
to ride that wave and just seewhat the industry is going and
how I position myself.
So, yeah, I definitely had theprivilege of not having a lot of
responsibilities, you know.
Now it's a little bit different.
You know being, you know, 31,.
You know having a whole lotmore responsibilities, like a
(19:47):
roof over my head.
You know car insurance, healthinsurance, all the insurances
you know.
So I definitely have to be alittle bit more calculated in
that way.
But I also try to remind myselfI still don't have any kids,
not married.
So I still try to even keepthat in perspective because I
don't want to look back a decadefrom now when I do have, you
know, a wife and kids.
(20:08):
And I'm like man, I wish Iwould have done X, y and Z at 31
.
So I try to keep that inperspective, like, yes, I have
responsibilities, but I stilldon't have all the
responsibilities.
Where can I strike that balance?
And being a little bit morerisky, you know Okay
responsibilities.
Sidney Evans (20:22):
Where can I strike that balance?
And being a little bit morerisky, you know, okay, that,
make that make sense, appreciateyou sharing that.
Um, to touch on, like youmaking the transition and like
your, your relationship withMichelle kind of being the
catalyst for that, I just wantto touch on, like, the
importance of like buildingrelationships because if you,
you know, if you didn't havethat relationship, like not to
say that the transition you madewouldn't have happened, but it
(20:48):
more than likely wouldn't havehappened the way that it
happened and there would be adifferent story behind it.
So, even from your, I guess,your experience in the music and
when you made the transition towhere you are now with, like
you know, podcasts and audiobooks, and even as you pursue,
(21:08):
like you know, producing yourown stuff and kind of being more
self-dependent, can you talkabout like your perspective on
relationships?
And I'm not using the termnetworking for a reason, like I
just said it, because networkingand I touched on this in the
last interview is seems like therigid salesy non.
(21:28):
This is just not organic.
It's not organic, it doesn'tfeel like an organic way of
going about.
It's kind of similar to when itcomes to like selling and
branding like selling is justlike the commercials where it's
a Burger King commercial andthey tell you this is the
product and this is how much itcosts and go buy it, whereas a
(21:51):
company that I would feel likerevolutionizing this Nike is
just like it's just storytellingNike.
You never feel like you'rebeing sold by Nike.
It's kind of like a lifestyle.
So I want to touch on thelifestyle of not networking but
building relationships, mutuallybeneficial relationships like
that.
So can you touch on that?
Dontae Hodge (22:12):
Yeah, I'm glad you added the mutually beneficial
at the end, because that's soimportant, and I think it's also
important to realize and I'llget into more of the question in
a second but it's alsoimportant to realize that it
won't always be 100% mutuallybeneficial, right, sometimes
you'll have more to gain, right,but because of my character
(22:34):
traits, because I have acharacter where I just want to
be a sponge, I just want to addas much value to you in whatever
way that looks like they'reokay with it for now being just,
(22:56):
I get most of the benefit,right.
And you know, I was talkingabout this on my Instagram the
other day, where I was justpaying homage to some of the
people along the way who haveprovided opportunities.
You know, that's one thing thatI never stopped doing, because
I think that's how we honorthose people, right, those
people that have poured into usand provided those opportunities
(23:18):
.
We honor them.
One of the ways we honor themis by never stop saying their
name.
So, even when I talk tostudents to this day, I'm
talking about the people whogave me opportunities, who
poured into me and thoserelationships.
And to get back torelationships, man, they are
everything.
They are everything, everypivot point and every
(23:39):
opportunity that I listed in mystory started with a
relationship.
At Treesound, I built arelationship with that person.
They saw me working.
They put me on a session.
They, just because of therelationship, they trusted me,
saying yes, I can work Pro Tools.
They never saw me work ProTools.
You see what I'm saying.
They just trusted, based on therelationship we get built, that
I could do it.
You know I go to listen upaudio books.
(24:03):
At the time again, trusted withsome big sessions right Just
off of my character and therelationships that I had built
with the decision makers at thetime, they trusted me to do
those bigger sessions, hired asthe head engineer and studio
(24:25):
manager.
These weren't jobs that wereadvertised, they came from me
having a relationship with theowner of the studio, with the
director of production, rightRelationships, and then with
Michelle.
Again, my position was in aposition that was advertised.
It was created for me becauseof a relationship and I want to
be clear, because of arelationship.
You know, and I want to beclear, the relationship doesn't
(24:45):
supersede my ability to do thejob.
Sidney Evans (24:49):
Yes, and I'm so.
I was cause I was trying to, Iwas trying to find a way to jump
in there and emphasize on that,because the relationship may
lead to opportunity, but youhave to make sure when
opportunity comes you are ready,because if you can't deliver,
then they're not going to be seethe value which is going to
(25:09):
nurture the relationship.
It could turn into somethinggrandiose.
I'm the just the example of youknow an intern becoming a.
You know a engineer or anexecutive or whatever it's like.
Okay, they're going to, you mayhave based on relationship, you
may have an opportunity, but ifyou don't deliver, then you're
not going to see all the thingsthat come after it you're not
(25:30):
going to have access to.
So I'm glad, I'm glad youpointed on that.
So you have to, you have tohave already done the work when
the opportunity comes.
Dontae Hodge (25:38):
Yeah, like, and how you honor those people that
put you in position is bydoubling down on the trust that
they put on you by deliveringand over delivering, you know.
So that's why I don't take thatfor granted.
Like all those opportunities, Iwas always like man, like how
do I over deliver to honor thisperson?
(26:00):
And you know I feel like I didto honor this person and you
know I feel like I did.
I hope that these people wouldsay that I did if you were to
interview them or ask themquestions.
But I can say with everythingin me that I try to always honor
that.
You know, and even to this day,relationships are still blessing
me.
You know I'm doing a lot oflive sound gigs now, not to get
(26:20):
ahead of myself, but I'm doing alot of live sound gigs now and
I have a gig that's tomorrow.
And the crazy thing about thegig that's tomorrow is I'll be
mixing front of house.
But the guy who owns theproduction company that put me
in that position, he's neverheard me mix.
We just built a relationshiplike talking.
He sees something in me.
(26:43):
He sees, he likes somethingabout my character and he was
like man, I'm going to put youin position.
So I want people to wrap theirmind just around the importance
of relationships, because I tellmy students this all the time
Like being a great engineer isimportant.
In some ways your skills willget you in the room, but how you
(27:03):
treat people and how you makepeople feel will keep you in the
room and open other doors.
And you'll be surprised that alot of the people who are in
position and this is not to talkdown on anybody, but you'll be
surprised that a lot of thepeople who are in the positions,
they're not as skilled as youthink, and I want to say that
carefully because that's not tosay that they aren't skilled,
but they're not as skilled asyou think.
And I want to say thatcarefully because that's not to
say that they aren't skilled,but they're not as skilled as
(27:26):
you think.
And I say that to say they justhave the relationship.
They just make that person thatthey're working with feel a
certain way.
They make them feel comfortableand the skills are enough, but
the fact that they're just agood vibe, a good person to be
around, they have great energy,makes up for the rest.
They're just a good vibe, a goodperson to be around.
They have great energy, makesup for the rest.
(27:47):
So I just want people to keepthat in mind.
You know, as you're watchingall the YouTube videos about
engineering, about Pro Tools,about whatever, make sure that
you are constantly working onyourself to have the right
character traits, you know, sothat you have the right energy
and vibe about you when you'rein these spaces, because that's
what will right energy and vibeabout you when you're in these
spaces, because that's what willmake people want to work with
you.
And if you're a dope engineeron top of that, that's just
(28:08):
icing on the cake.
Sidney Evans (28:10):
It is definitely, and that's kind of another
perfect transition.
You said to because every,every, no matter what business
you in, it's a people business,right?
And you said you know, makesure you are working on yourself
to become the best person.
And, um, like there's, there'sso much, like you said, on
youtube and in on the internetas far as like the technical
side of like engineering andediting and whether you want to
(28:33):
do music producing or whatever.
But I did want to make surethis platform was talk was, yeah
, we could, we can touch alittle bit on the technical
stuff, but I kind of wanted toemphasize more of like the life
of living and being a person inthe industry, not just focusing
on the skill itself.
So, and I've always was taughtto be, you know, be good at you
(28:56):
know, whatever your passion is,whatever your career is or
whatever you're working on, butto develop all the other areas
as well.
And even when I tend to forgetthat, like my current girlfriend
, she will not allow me toneglect like, yeah, you want to.
You know what I'm saying.
You want to start the podcast,you want to be the best editor
(29:17):
possible.
You know what I'm saying.
You can't neglect things likeyour faith and being a good
person and giving back to peopleless fortunate or helping
people out, that and there's noway that they'll be able to
repay you, but just doing it,you know, out of the kindness of
your heart.
In what ways do you make sureyou're holding yourself
accountable as to being the bestperson you can be, whether it's
(29:40):
part of your daily routine,whether it's you know your
relationship with your familyseems like you have a great
relationship with your mother,whether it's you know some
people are super religious.
Some people you know love beingout in nature.
Some people meditate.
So like what do you outside of?
Like working, like how do youkind of keep yourself not only
grounded but also fresh?
(30:01):
So when the time comes toactually do work, you are coming
from like the most centered,true to yourself way to where
it's reflected in the work andit's of the highest quality.
Dontae Hodge (30:13):
Yeah, Wow, that's a great question, bro.
Thank you for that question,man.
You know, one thing that I'munashamedly open about is my
faith and what I believe in.
You know because and the reasonfor that is because I see how
it's affected my life in apositive way you know so how I
(30:34):
treat people, which goes rightback to how you make people feel
when it's just you and them ina studio, right?
Do you make them feel safe?
Right, and all of these things.
That comes back to my faith andwhat I believe in, and it's
something that was instilled inme from my grandmother growing
up in the Caribbean, west Indiangrandmother, like I, couldn't
(30:55):
not be in church and I'm sothankful for that man because
when I became an adult, it wasthe one thing where I was just
like no, I have to have thisrelationship and I have to have
it for myself and understand itand know it for myself.
And I went on that journey andit's just dictated so much of my
decision-making as it relatesto how I treat people, the
(31:19):
integrity I have as it relatesto my work, people, the
integrity I have as it relatesto my work, and these are the
little things that add up overtime.
You know that you don't do forany reason, you don't do it to
get any recognition, but it addsup over time and people see
something in you, because I'llnever forget one time I was the
previous job I had well atListen Up, you know I was
overpaid by mistake, right,there was like a payroll issue,
(31:42):
right, and I made them aware ofthat issue.
So, like little things likethat.
Where had I not had a solidfoundation in my faith and the
integrity that comes with that?
It might've been easy to justignore that mistake and, just
right, take the extra money.
But because of my integrity,because of my faith, I made this
thing known, right.
(32:03):
And again, I didn't do it toget any credit for them to, I
just did it because that's me,that's, that's how I moved,
that's what I believe in, andbut it is those little things
that people see in you andthey're like, oh, there's
something different about youand that's how we show up in the
world, right, as believers, aspeople who believe in.
(32:25):
I don't want to make this aboutone faith specifically, but
whatever you believe in, right,that's how you reflect that
thing is by how you show up inthe world.
So, yeah, man, my faith hasbeen everything, and family also
.
Like you said it, I'm a familyman, unashamedly so I try my
best to show up for them in ahealthy way, because I've been
on the other spectrum of that,where I show up and I try to do
(32:48):
too much right.
And we have to realize that wecan't control everything.
So, understanding what I cancontrol and what I might just
need to pray about, right, sounderstanding, hey, I might be
able to give advice about thisthing, I might be able to show
up for this thing, this thing Imight not have the capacity to
do anything with and I just needto pray about that.
And that's one thing that youknow I try to do daily.
(33:11):
You know, just prayer, time,time in my word.
You know, these are the thingsthat I believe keep me grounded,
grounded even in a season likeI'm in right now, where there's
a lot of uncertainty.
We're in a tough time in ourindustry and I think we're all
trying to figure it out, which Iwish we would all talk about a
little bit more, because I thinkeverybody's off in their own
(33:31):
little silo, thinking they'rethe only one that's going
through a hard time right now,but we're all trying to figure
it out right now.
So that's another thing I wantto say to anybody.
Maybe you're watching this andyou've been in an industry like
we have and you're just like man, I'm just trying to figure it
out right now.
It was going well.
Now I'm just trying to rebuildit.
We're all trying to figure itout, you know.
(33:52):
So, yeah, my faith is what'skeeping me grounded and keeping
that integrity, even as thingsdon't look as I would like them
to look.
That's what changes everything,you know.
That's what has been presentingall these opportunities that
are starting to come.
So hopefully that answers thequestion, man.
Sidney Evans (34:13):
Definitely, definitely.
So you just touched on faith.
We talked about the skill set,man, let's get into.
Let's talk about the, about themoney man like let's, just just
because that, that is, that isan aspect of it and you know
from from my experience workingin the industry, you know people
pay for writing, people willpay for video, like you know,
(34:36):
that's, that's the visual.
People pay a lot for that.
But when it comes down to theaudio, like people just kind of
it seems like you likescrambling to get the leftovers.
And when you actually thinkabout the experience of
storytelling, whether it's a TV,a movie, sports, a broadcast,
like if you don't have the audiopiece is you're not immersed in
(35:00):
it, like there's a, there's adisconnect.
You're, you're, you don't feelthat you're not immersed in it.
Like there's a there's adisconnect, you're you're, you
don't feel that you're notinvolved.
So on one end you know that itit potentially is the most
valuable thing, but everyoneelse is seen is at the least
valuable.
So the when it comes to, youknow, discussions about money,
(35:21):
there there's going to be adisconnect there, man.
So obviously you know.
You said you worked as, youworked as an intern, you worked
at, you worked at the studio,you weren't getting paid that
much.
You had some full-time jobs.
Now you're you're venturing outonto doing, uh, like your own
thing, so you're gonna.
You know, when you're in thesemeetings and obviously you have
(35:41):
the the money conversation isgoing to come up Like, how do
you approach what you feel likeyou should be paid?
How do you negotiate?
And then, obviously, there'sdifferent things involved on
based on, like, the scale of theperson or entity that you're
working with.
Like, if they have a hugeplatform, you know you may be
willing to take less because ofjust the connection to the brand
(36:03):
.
You know you may be willing totake less because of just the
connection to the brand.
There's some things that you'relike, yeah, they may not have
the biggest budget, but I reallybelieve in like this is
something that's impactful, solet's find a way to make it work
.
And there's some things thatpeople come to you where it's
like, unless you're not payingme top tier, I really don't want
to do it, you know.
So, like kind of talking, likethose battles and conversations,
(36:23):
not only that you have whennegotiating that, but that you
have within yourself whendeciding on what to and what not
to work on.
Dontae Hodge (36:31):
Yeah, we're getting into a reel.
So, man, the first thing I wantto say is sound is probably the
most important part of any typeof media, and I just want to
paint a picture really quickly.
Right, we can watch if justwant to paint a picture really
quickly.
Right, if we were to watch amovie without sound, nobody
wants to see that.
(36:51):
But we could watch or listen toa movie without the video,
because there are podcasts thatdo that.
There are podcasts that arejust audio, right, so we know
that we can listen to somethingwithout a visual, but we can't
watch something without audio.
So I just want to remind peopleof that and I want engineers to
have that perspective, oreditors, whatever you do, to
have that perspective, as peopletry to diminish what we do Now
(37:15):
as it relates to charging peopleand stuff like that.
So what I'll say, one of mybiggest regrets was is not
understanding my value quicker,right, you know, because one of
the things that I wish I leanedinto more, I told you early in
my story I was working with Mace, you know, who was a very
(37:35):
established artist at the time,was a well-known name, and he
only wanted to work with me, andat the time.
I wish I had looked at that andput that in perspective a
little bit more, not from thefact that it was Mace, but from
the fact that he's probably,probably worked with hundreds of
engineers and he wants to workwith this 19-year-old kid who's
just starting out.
So I wish I had put that moreinto perspective and realized my
(37:59):
value and that kind of seguesperfectly into being reasonable
with the situation right, andhow I judge what's reasonable is
really taking the full pictureinto context.
You know, how long have I beendoing this?
How many hours have I put in?
How much studying have I done,right?
So I was in year one at thatpoint in my professional career,
(38:21):
so I haven't put a whole lot ofhours in.
I mean, I'm fresh out ofuniversity, so I've put some
hours in and I've spent somemoney there, so that's worth
something.
So I've put some hours in andI've spent some money there, so
that's worth something.
But now I'm over a decade in at31.
I've put in my 10,000 hoursplus at this point, so I have to
charge with that in mind, youknow.
(38:42):
And what's helped me isunderstanding what people are
willing to pay me salary-wise ona yearly basis.
So now I take that as astarting point, right, I'm like,
okay, this is what people arewilling to pay me yearly on a
salary basis.
We know that no company,regardless of who's running the
company, will pay you exactlywhat you're worth.
(39:02):
They're going to pay yousomewhere under that because
that's economics right.
Taking that into consideration,and then I just kind of figure
out an hourly number from thereand then again, what's
reasonable given the situation?
Right, it might be I might beconsulting a church that's just
starting out on some audio,right?
Is that something that gets megoing?
(39:24):
Am I passionate about that?
Well, cool, I might be willingto take a pay cut to do that,
because I'm passionate abouthelping these people.
This is a topic that I'mpassionate about, you know, and
I'll be transparent.
I recently was hit up aboutdoing a live stream, right.
So I would be kind of producinga live stream.
So I would have been doingvideo, audio graphics, kind of a
(39:45):
little bit of everything.
So we're talking the job ofmaybe four people that I would
have been doing.
So now you have to take thatinto consideration.
If you were a production companyand you had to contract all
these four people, what wouldthat cost you as a production
company?
Well, I'm doing it as oneperson.
You have to charge with that inmind, because now you're under
(40:08):
more stress, now you're undermore pressure, it's more work
for you.
You have to charge with that inmind, because now you're under
more stress, now you're undermore pressure, it's more work
for you.
You have to charge with that inmind and full transparency.
I didn't.
I gave them what it would takefinancially and I didn't get the
job.
That'll happen sometime.
But I was able to be at peacewith it because I knew, if I had
taken a pay cut to do that job,the stress and the work it
(40:29):
would take.
It just wouldn't make sense.
So I would rather not get thejob than take the job for way
less.
Sidney Evans (40:37):
And let me, let me jump in real quick, because two
things I want to touch on.
Is that, like you said, you're,like you're at peace with that.
For some reason, it's like,when it comes to the money thing
, like there's it's allnegotiation really, like there's
no right or wrong, is just likeyou know what you're, what
you're willing to work for, whatthey're willing to pay you, but
(40:59):
for some reason it's likethere's cotton context of the
market and all those things.
But sometimes and this is notjust in conversation with money,
in all areas of life, like youhave to everything can't be
analytics.
Like you gotta go, like you'rea person, so you, you gotta go
with your, sometimes your gutinstinct or your, your, your,
your, your, uh, discernment, oryour, uh, whether that's you
(41:21):
know.
Like you might get discernmentfrom God to tell you whether you
should do it or not, eventhough the numbers may, to make
sense.
Dontae Hodge (41:28):
No, bro, I'm glad you brought it up because you're
absolutely right.
And as I strengthened my faith,that is part of it, like, what
is my spirit telling me aboutthis thing?
Like, because, again, justbeing around it, you kind of
learn what it takes Right.
And then, as you startinvesting in your own equipment,
you know, like I'm bringing myown console, I'm bringing my own
(41:48):
microphones.
You know, like I'm bringing myown console, I'm bringing my own
microphones.
You know, maybe I'm leveraginga relationship to get some
equipment.
You know, you have to put valueon all of those things.
You know, for example, if youwere to rent your console to
anybody else, maybe it'll be$300 a day, right?
You have to factor that in whenyou're invoicing for this gig.
Factor that in when you'reinvoicing for this gig.
So that's one thing that I'mreally really big about now, man
(42:12):
, just taking time to pray aboutit and using that discernment,
you know, because, man, allmoney isn't good money.
You know, every opportunityisn't an opportunity you should
be taking.
You know, and I've learned thatthe hard way.
You know, I've learned that thehard way, just chasing the
money, chasing the bag, you know, and realizing that no peace
(42:37):
came from it or it turned intosomething else and there is not
a dollar that's worth that.
If you believe in your faithagain, my faith is God, that's
me Right.
But if you believe in whateveryou believe in, you know you
have to believe it strong enoughto say if I don't feel in my
spirit that I need to be doingthis thing, you have to believe
in it strong enough to know thatyou'll be taken care of
(42:59):
somewhere else in another way me, it'll be for me, and I always
pray that it works out, even ifthey don't book me, that it
works out for them.
But if it doesn't work out forthem, I understand that you know
that'll be revealed to themthat, hey, next time maybe we'll
book him or not.
Sidney Evans (43:18):
But when you say like, okay, maybe they, you
charge them something, theydon't do it and they book
somebody that's cheaper and itdoesn't work out.
They may not book you of whatyou charge, but they may book
somebody else for that, which Iknow for all of us in doing it
together.
I'm not devaluing the industry.
(43:39):
So over the course of time, thenext opportunities I get, it
will be more in alignment forwhat I think the value of what
we do is, and I think that's theultimate goal.
Yeah, that's real.
Dontae Hodge (43:55):
That's real.
And how I look at it too, bro,is the quicker I can get to.
This is a weird way to look atit, but hear me out the quicker
I can get a note from somebody,the quicker I can find my people
.
Sidney Evans (44:07):
Exactly.
So yeah, we're going to wrapthings up soon, but for this
last portion, I just want to endthings on a lighter note.
Man, we talked about your story, talked about your journey,
talked about money, talked aboutskillset relationships.
I just want to kind of just endthings on a much lighter note.
So I got a couple of questionsto ask.
(44:29):
You're a music guy, so I askedall my guests this, but I think
this will be you'll beparticularly fond of these
questions and looking forward toseeing what your responses will
be.
So first one is what is yourfavorite album of all time?
Dontae Hodge (44:46):
I'm going to give you one that you probably don't
expect.
But when it came out itliterally changed my life.
Just because I was kind ofinterested in music at that time
, starting to do the engineeringthing, and I was just like, wow
, this sounds like a motionpicture, get rich or die, trying
by 50 Cent.
(45:06):
Like classic, I mean veryviolent, but I shouldn't have
been listening to it as a kid.
But, man, something about it,just like it was like a movie,
it was just so beautifully done,so that's one of my favorites,
man.
I mean I have a lot, but that'swhat came to mind.
Sidney Evans (45:26):
Okay, so next is favorite music producer.
Dontae Hodge (45:31):
Ooh, Brian Michael Cox.
Sidney Evans (45:42):
Brian, I knew it was coming.
I just he was on R&B Moneypodcast.
If you're not familiar withthat, you got to listen to it
and I just listened to his Earnyour Leisure episode yesterday.
Earn your leisure episodeyesterday.
Last two uh favorite film scoreman, I really enjoyed.
Dontae Hodge (45:54):
I really enjoyed.
Now, this is one that that newavatar movie that was actually
pretty solid.
Like yeah, that's what I'mgonna go with.
That's probably not a stronganswer.
I'm probably upsetting somebodyright now.
're like, how could you notlist, but that's what came to
mind.
Sidney Evans (46:10):
Sorry, y'all okay, yeah, that's, that's.
It is what it is um.
And last, my favorite tv themesong oh, fresh prince of bel-air
fresh prince.
Uh, I had a feeling, I had a,had a hunch, I had a hunch.
You're gonna go with that.
Um, uh, but before we end, like, how can people you know find
you on social media?
I'm sure you have a portfolioof previous things that you like
.
How can people you know findyou on social media?
(46:31):
I'm sure you have a portfolioof previous things that you've
worked on.
How can people find those ifthey're interested?
Yeah, like, where you, whereyou at, bro, where can they find
you?
Dontae Hodge (46:41):
Yeah, so the two main places will be Instagram.
I'm at Don's press play, sothat's D O N Z press play.
I'm still working on beingbetter at posting audio content.
Like right now it's a superlike inspirational page, which
that is part of who I am.
So I'm in the season of tryingto balance all of the things
that are in me, right.
(47:02):
So I love inspiring people.
I love, you know, firing peopleup and getting people to go
after whatever it is that theyfeel like they want to go after.
So I post a lot of that stuffon there.
But I'm working on some audiocontent and just finding that
balance.
So, at Don's Press Play onInstagram and LinkedIn is where
you can find, like, kind ofeverything that I've worked on.
(47:24):
So you know, if you lookthrough my experience, you'll
kind of see a lot of the names,a lot of the podcasts, a lot of
everything.
So that'll be a good place.
I am working on my website, sowhenever I do have that together
, you'll be able to find out onmy LinkedIn or in my IG bio.
So hopefully in the next monthto month and a half I'll have
(47:46):
that completed.
But those are the two mainplaces for now.
Sidney Evans (47:50):
Yeah, I think we're there.
I appreciate you coming on.
Yes, sir, wish you the best inall the future endeavors you
know, no matter how big or small, and and for all those
listening.
Thank you for tuning in and Iwill catch you on the next
episode.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode.
(48:15):
Please don't forget tosubscribe to the show and leave
us a review.
If you'd like to work with meor connect, please go to
soundbysitcom and schedule acall there.
You can also check out the fulllist of productions I've worked
on.
If you'd like to connect onsocial media, my handle is
soundbysetcom on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
(48:36):
on LinkedIn.
Don't forget to follow Beyondthe Threshold on Instagram as
well.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Every pivot point and every opportunity that I
listed in my story started witha relationship.
At Treesound, I build arelationship with that person.
They saw me working.
They put me on a sessionbecause of the relationship,
they trusted me saying, yes, Ican work pro tools.
They never saw me work protools.
They came from me having arelationship with the owner of
the studio, with the director ofproduction tune in as we give
(00:22):
flowers to black men and womenmaking waves in the audio
industry.
Sidney Evans (00:26):
I'm your host, sidney Evans, and this is Beyond
the Threshold.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen,to Beyond the Threshold.
I'm your host, sidney Evans, anaward-winning audio editor and
(00:49):
producer.
For those of you who don't know, this show is dedicated to
interviewing Black men and womenworking in the audio industry,
while highlighting the lessonsand experiences it takes to
achieve success in the field.
We are back for another episode.
Achieve success in the field.
We are back for another episode.
(01:09):
Our first conversation with theguest previously was with Ashley
Hobbs.
We had a great interview, a lotof great gems and lessons to be
learned, so I hope you all goback and check that out, as well
as the podcast teaser andepisode zero, which kind of
tells my story and what led tome starting the podcast.
(01:29):
But I'm not going to bore youwith details of things in the
past.
We're going to focus on thepresent.
Today I have a former colleagueof mine who, unfortunately, I
didn't get to know as well as Iwould have liked at the time.
But we're going to get into allthe nitty gritty of it today in
this conversation.
So to give you a bit ofbackground on him.
(01:51):
He is a multi award winningaudio engineer whose expertise
on the music side includes musicproduction, composition and
classical piano.
His experience also encompassesadditional audio disciplines,
including audio books,voiceovers, podcasts, live sound
and film.
He has used his talents toserve an illustrious clientele,
(02:11):
including Stacey Abrams, cocoJones, martin Luther King III,
coca-cola Ambassador AndrewYoung, kevin Hart Mace, amongst
others.
But without further ado, Iwould like to introduce Dante
Haas.
Mr Press Play himself.
Welcome to the show, brother.
Dontae Hodge (02:29):
How are you, thank you, thank you.
I'm well, man.
I'm thankful to be here.
Thank you for the invite.
I'm so happy that you're doingthis because I feel like enough
people in the industry who areactually doing the thing.
They don't do enough of theactual thing and just showcasing
what we do, talking about thepeople doing it.
So when you told me about this,I was first of all thankful and
(02:50):
grateful that you thought of me, but also happy that you're
doing this.
So proud of you, man, happy tobe here, and thank you for the
introduction.
Sidney Evans (02:57):
Yes, sir, Appreciate it.
Yeah, this platform, it'ssomething that I wish that would
have been out there when I gotfirst started.
Obviously, this is more gearedtowards black people working in
the field, but, from the fieldin general, we're so focused on
like the technical and creativestuff of doing our job that we
don't really put an emphasis onlike sharing our experiences.
(03:19):
And you know, this is not aneasy industry to be in by any
means.
This is not an easy industry tobe in by any means.
So anything that we can kind ofhighlight and give game on to
help the people who, no matterwhether you're you know up and
coming, whether you've been done, you're doing it and you want
to continue to be at the top ofyour game, I feel like this is
very due and necessary.
(03:40):
So, yes, sir, so to kind of getthe ball rolling, man, I just
want to kind of know a littlebit about like your background,
your upbringing, where you'refrom, like what was young Dante,
like what were his you knowpassions and what kind of led
(04:00):
you to having that bug plantedin you to pursue this as a
career.
So if you could go into alittle detail about that, I
would appreciate it?
Dontae Hodge (04:11):
Yeah, no, thank you for the question.
It's a great question.
Um, man, so it started.
Well, I'll take you furtherback, right?
So I was probably eight or nine,maybe younger, when I started
playing classical piano.
It was something I didn'tnecessarily want to do, but, you
know, thankfully I was livingin the British Virgin Islands
(04:34):
which is where I'm from, andwith my mom, and she just wanted
me to be exposed to as manythings as possible, which I'm
super grateful for that, becauseit wasn't something that I knew
I needed or wanted, butobviously end up serving me well
later on.
So I did classical piano,learned to play by ear and to
read theory, but mostly play byear, which you know, I have my
(04:56):
feelings about that.
And then that would kind oflead to me just always being
around music and then doing itin high school.
And I kind of have the classicstory where I started rapping in
high school and, because I wasthe person that was already kind
of technical, I played music, Ikind of produced music, I
(05:17):
became the engineer foreverybody, right, even though I
didn't necessarily know thatthat's what I was doing at the
time, even though I didn'tnecessarily know that that's
what I was doing at the time.
I just became that guy.
So I was messing with programslike GarageBand, mixcraft what's
that one, is it Sonar?
And then my mom would later getme Pro Tools and a MacBook with
(05:42):
Logic and that would change mylife like truly, because I now
teach at SAE, which is a schoollocal here to Atlanta audio
engineering school and I alwaystell them, you know, I was
fortunate to have startedworking in Pro Tools in high
school, which I'm 31 now, sothat's, you know, over 15 years
ago at this point.
So yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere it started.
(06:03):
And then I realized that it wasa thing that I could do.
I found a school by the name ofFull Sail University.
My mom was kind of all in on medoing whatever I was passionate
about, even though I had a fullride scholarship to do
competition sailing at anotherschool, because that's another
thing I did in high school.
I was into competition sailingand I represented the BVI and
(06:25):
was the top sailor in the BVI.
But my mom was kind of justsupportive of me doing whatever
I was passionate about.
We went and toured Full Sailand that put the stamp on it.
I was like this is what I wantto do with my life and the rest
is kind of history.
I went to Full Sail, got mybachelor's in recording arts and
started working in the industry.
I was 19 when I started in theindustry your experience at full
(06:49):
cell was for to be.
Sidney Evans (06:50):
Have been in that time frame was very important
because obviously, like you said, you got into it for music and
it was right in the middle ofthe transition from like the old
, it was digital.
You know, people weren't umusing like the analog stuff the
more so.
What was your like?
What did what did they?
What did they teach you?
As far as that, was it likethey?
They wanted to show you likethe, the old school way of doing
(07:12):
things, so you can have thatfoundation, but emphasize, like
that, this is where it was going.
Or were they kind of likepurists, whereas I don't really
care what's going on in thefuture as far as digital, this
is how we learn, this is what weteach and no matter the state
of the industry, we're going toteach it this certain way.
So was it either this or that,or was it like a combination of
(07:35):
the two?
Dontae Hodge (07:36):
Yeah, no, it was this and that.
And that's the cool thing aboutFull Sail, and I believe they
still have these principles evenover a decade later, where they
teach the foundationalprinciples on analog.
They still have all of theiranalog consoles.
So they have SSL 9000J, whichis still, to this day, my
favorite console.
So I have every SSL 9000Jplugin that exists because of my
(08:00):
time at Full Sail and justlearning signal flow on that
console.
So it was this and that.
Like we learned signal flowfrom a console perspective and
then learn how to apply that toPro Tools or any DAW and how the
two are one in the same,because Pro Tools is built on
the principles of tape, ofconsoles.
(08:21):
So that's how we learn and evento this day, that's how I teach
my students.
Even though SAE's curriculum isa little bit different, I still
always take the curriculum andmake it make sense to where I'm
showing them.
Hey, this is where it startedand this is how it relates to
Pro Tools or any DAW.
This is why Pro Signal flowsfrom the top to the bottom.
(08:43):
This is why it works like this.
This is why it ends up.
You know what I'm saying?
So Fose was definitely this andthat, and I'm so thankful for
that because, you know, to thisday, even when I mix records,
it's like I want to have thatanalog sound.
You know this past studio thatI used to work at they had a SSL
Matrix and I would always sumto that console when I was
(09:07):
mixing music.
Just because we're kind of likethe last generation that is
coming up.
That came up that way Cause alot of the new, newer engineers
their introduction is alldigital, you know, and I think
it's important to kind of knowwhere we came from.
So I lean into that when I'mteaching people.
Sidney Evans (09:25):
That's great man.
As far as me, I'm a little bitolder than you but I do not have
as traditional of a backgroundin audio.
I was kind of mostlyself-taught.
I guess my initial pursuit was,or my initial interest in audio
in general was because of music, and that's kind of how I
learned all the foundationaltools.
(09:46):
And obviously we workedtogether at a podcast production
company.
So eventually you did make thetransition from music to
podcasting.
But that's jumping the gun alittle bit.
I do want to know more about.
Like okay, you figured out whatyour thing was, you went to
school for it, you got theknowledge, you got the
foundation for it.
(10:06):
So what was your experiencelike, actually jumping into the
industry and actually working?
Because whether you're studyingengineering, whether you go to
school, get your undergraddegree in business, whether you
get an MBA, there's aneducational world and then
there's the real world where youhave to apply all this stuff
(10:27):
and the speed at which thingshappen is much faster than the
learning process and it's just awhole different game.
So what was that like for youactually working in the music
industry?
Dontae Hodge (10:40):
Yeah, wow.
So one thing I want to saybefore I jump to that question
is you touched on somethingthat's like a hot topic and I
get people asking me all thetime like should I go to school,
should I just get into theindustry?
And I just want to touch onthat really quickly because I
feel like people watching thismight have that same question.
Because we're a good example oftwo people who did it two
(11:02):
different ways but ended up inthe same place, right.
We're a good example of twopeople who did it two different
ways but ended up in the sameplace, right, and I think that's
just the reality of it.
Like there's no right answer.
I would say if you have theresources to go to school, and
it makes sense, go to school.
But also you don't have to goto school, right.
Like you know, I ended upinterning at a studio when I
first got out and that couldhave easily have been my route
(11:23):
without school, right, I couldhave just interned at the studio
and get all that experience.
So I would say there's no rightanswer.
It just depends on thesituation.
So I just want to encourageanybody who might be watching
this and they're like okay, Idon't have the money to go to
school, that's fine.
Go intern at a studio, find amentor.
So I just wanted to say that.
So now to get to where itstarted.
(11:43):
It started here in Atlanta at astudio called Tree Sound Studio
.
So I graduated in 2012, movedhere to Atlanta.
The reason I moved here is mydad lived here, so it made sense
.
I had somebody to stay with.
It just was a financially sounddecision because I was offered
an engineering job in Miami butthe numbers didn't make sense
for the cost of living in Miami.
(12:04):
It just didn't make sense.
So I moved here, startedinterning at Shreesound Studios
and, man, it happened quicklyfor me.
I came in and I was doinganything that was needed, like
scrubbing floors, doing runs tothe gas station, runs to
wherever was needed.
And there were some people atTreesound who saw that work
(12:28):
ethic in me.
And one day we were justsitting down and he was like hey
, can you work Pro Tools?
I was like, yeah, I can workPro Tools and he put me in my
first like pro session in myfirst week at Treesound.
It was with this artist hername is Iggy Azalea and it just
happened quickly from there.
It was like David Banner whowas working with Coco Jones at
the time, cy High of the Prince.
(12:50):
It was just a lot of people ina little bit of time.
But what I quickly realized isthere was this weird balance
between me still being an intern, me not being on staff.
So I was working on all thesesessions being requested by all
these artists, but I wasn'tgetting paid.
I wasn't getting credit for alot of the stuff that I was
working on.
So it was just a really weirddynamic that I was seeing
(13:12):
happening.
And what opened my eyes is oneday I wasn't at the studio and
Mace, the artist Mace he calledthe studio because I had been
working with him and he was likehe only wanted to work with me.
He was like he only wanted towork with me.
So at that point I started tokind of realize my value and I
was like, ok, something has tochange.
So I quickly realized that thatsituation wasn't going to turn
into anything.
(13:33):
And then I was trying to work atother studios, you know, just
doing music, and it wasn'treally sticking.
I wasn't really getting inanywhere.
And then I saw this audio bookthing.
And I'm going to be honest, sid, like I did not want to do it,
like I did not want to do it.
I was the music guy, right, Ijust wanted to do music.
(13:53):
But again, I'm just so thankfulfor my mom and her wisdom.
You know she was like, well,why don't you try it?
She was like you're young, likeI'm 19.
She was like, why not try itand see what happens?
The worst thing that can happenis you don't like it and then
you go back to trying to domusic.
And, man, I tried it.
I realized that I was good atit.
(14:14):
The economics was way different.
That payment came on time.
I didn't have to chase anybodydown.
It was just so different and Iwas like, oh, this is what I do
to survive and I can continuepursuing the music as a passion
and doing it as supplemental.
And that's what I ended updoing.
(14:34):
I did that for like a decade.
I would then end up being thehead engineer of that studio,
end up managing that studio, andthen I left to join the company
that we were a part of, where Igot into podcasting, but I'm
getting ahead of myself a littlebit.
So I met the owner of thatcompany that we were working
with, so I'll say the company,frequency Media, michelle Corey.
(14:56):
So I met her through thecompany that I was working at,
lantern Audio.
I'll just say all the companiesyou know that way people know
that this is real right.
So I was working at the studio.
It was Listen Up Audio.
Then they turned into LanternAudio.
So I was the head engineerthere and managed that studio.
I met Michelle Corey at thatstudio.
We kind of connectedimmediately.
(15:17):
I was working on her podcastthat was being produced at the
studio at the time and we justkind of connected and you know
we would have lunch, we wouldalways talk, and you know she
had this idea to start aproduction, a podcast production
company.
And she was like man, one daywhen I get it going, I'm going
to come back and I'm going tohire you.
And you know I mean people hadsaid that so many times along my
(15:38):
career and I was just like,okay, yeah, cool, sure, you know
.
And so said, so done.
She built her company up, wasdoing amazing things and I was
doing some contract work withher hand there and then she
brought me on full time and thenI did that for about two years
and it just became time to kindof transition again.
And now here we are.
(15:59):
But in that position we got towork on some cool stuff, some
pretty big podcast with someamazing people, and it kind of
just opened my eyes to the worldof podcast production, which I
now consult people on that andI'm trying to produce on my own
podcast.
So yeah, that's kind of likethe long drawn out story in a
(16:21):
hopefully shortened form, but Idon't know if you have any
additional questions, but that'sthe story yeah, that was uh, it
was very detailed but um, butyou kind of got right to it.
Sidney Evans (16:33):
But I do want to jump back and touch on some
things, because earlier in theconversation I mentioned the
music periods from the analogdays transitioning to the
digital age, but then also therewas this transition to where,
like the budgets and the moneyin the new age of music, it was
like drying up and these peopleare like you know, how can I
(16:57):
continue to use this skill setto have a career?
And then I think that's where itwas another transition period
where, like a lot of the musicpeople came over into the
podcast and audiobook space,which is similar to yours.
The question I want to ask is doyou think you had an advantage
with being young and adaptableand not locked into anything?
(17:18):
As to where, if some somebodywho was maybe, you know, maybe
had a family or 30, 40 years old, obviously they have more of an
economic incentive, but also,the older you are, the more
stubborn you are, and it's likeI have, like all this experience
in the music industry which islike not nearly as accessible as
somebody jumping into the audiobook or podcast space where,
(17:42):
okay, yeah, if you'reself-taught, maybe similar to
what I did.
It might be easier to jump inthose, but if you want to be
self-taught jumping in music,you really really have to have a
different foundation and just atool set that's, I would say
even a skill set, that's deeperand it's kind of more on the fly
and unpredictable.
(18:02):
So do you think, also with theadvice of your mom, who seemed
like she had a lot of wisdom aswell do you think you were more
open-minded than maybe somebodywho had been in the industry for
much longer than you had?
Dontae Hodge (18:14):
Yeah, definitely, man.
I mean because at that time Imean I'm 19.
I'm not worrying about whereI'm asleep.
You know, I had a older carthat I was driving so I didn't
have car payments.
You know, at that time I'mstill like under my dad's car
insurance.
So it's like it was so manythings where it was like I could
make an easy pivot and you knowI might have been getting paid
(18:38):
I don't know $10 an hour at thetime, but I was just like cool,
like it's better than nothing.
So, yeah, that made it reallyeasy to pivot and I would say me
making that pivot changed mylife because I became open to
every other pivot that came.
You know, I was always like, solong as I'm in the industry, it
(19:01):
doesn't have to look like thisthing that I've romanticized in
my head and just kind of seenthe industry changing and riding
that wave.
So seeing podcasting becoming athing and being like, oh, this
makes sense for me to pivot now,you know, seeing audiobooks
becoming a thing and saying thismakes sense for me to pivot now
, so that's kind of changed thetrajectory of my career and it's
(19:25):
kind of shaped where I am rightnow, where it's like I'm trying
to ride that wave and just seewhat the industry is going and
how I position myself.
So, yeah, I definitely had theprivilege of not having a lot of
responsibilities, you know.
Now it's a little bit different.
You know being, you know, 31,.
You know having a whole lotmore responsibilities, like a
(19:47):
roof over my head.
You know car insurance, healthinsurance, all the insurances
you know.
So I definitely have to be alittle bit more calculated in
that way.
But I also try to remind myselfI still don't have any kids,
not married.
So I still try to even keepthat in perspective because I
don't want to look back a decadefrom now when I do have, you
know, a wife and kids.
(20:08):
And I'm like man, I wish Iwould have done X, y and Z at 31
.
So I try to keep that inperspective, like, yes, I have
responsibilities, but I stilldon't have all the
responsibilities.
Where can I strike that balance?
And being a little bit morerisky, you know Okay
responsibilities.
Sidney Evans (20:22):
Where can I strike that balance?
And being a little bit morerisky, you know, okay, that,
make that make sense, appreciateyou sharing that.
Um, to touch on, like youmaking the transition and like
your, your relationship withMichelle kind of being the
catalyst for that, I just wantto touch on, like, the
importance of like buildingrelationships because if you,
you know, if you didn't havethat relationship, like not to
say that the transition you madewouldn't have happened, but it
(20:48):
more than likely wouldn't havehappened the way that it
happened and there would be adifferent story behind it.
So, even from your, I guess,your experience in the music and
when you made the transition towhere you are now with, like
you know, podcasts and audiobooks, and even as you pursue,
(21:08):
like you know, producing yourown stuff and kind of being more
self-dependent, can you talkabout like your perspective on
relationships?
And I'm not using the termnetworking for a reason, like I
just said it, because networkingand I touched on this in the
last interview is seems like therigid salesy non.
(21:28):
This is just not organic.
It's not organic, it doesn'tfeel like an organic way of
going about.
It's kind of similar to when itcomes to like selling and
branding like selling is justlike the commercials where it's
a Burger King commercial andthey tell you this is the
product and this is how much itcosts and go buy it, whereas a
(21:51):
company that I would feel likerevolutionizing this Nike is
just like it's just storytellingNike.
You never feel like you'rebeing sold by Nike.
It's kind of like a lifestyle.
So I want to touch on thelifestyle of not networking but
building relationships, mutuallybeneficial relationships like
that.
So can you touch on that?
Dontae Hodge (22:12):
Yeah, I'm glad you added the mutually beneficial
at the end, because that's soimportant, and I think it's also
important to realize and I'llget into more of the question in
a second but it's alsoimportant to realize that it
won't always be 100% mutuallybeneficial, right, sometimes
you'll have more to gain, right,but because of my character
(22:34):
traits, because I have acharacter where I just want to
be a sponge, I just want to addas much value to you in whatever
way that looks like they'reokay with it for now being just,
(22:56):
I get most of the benefit,right.
And you know, I was talkingabout this on my Instagram the
other day, where I was justpaying homage to some of the
people along the way who haveprovided opportunities.
You know, that's one thing thatI never stopped doing, because
I think that's how we honorthose people, right, those
people that have poured into usand provided those opportunities
(23:18):
.
We honor them.
One of the ways we honor themis by never stop saying their
name.
So, even when I talk tostudents to this day, I'm
talking about the people whogave me opportunities, who
poured into me and thoserelationships.
And to get back torelationships, man, they are
everything.
They are everything, everypivot point and every
(23:39):
opportunity that I listed in mystory started with a
relationship.
At Treesound, I built arelationship with that person.
They saw me working.
They put me on a session.
They, just because of therelationship, they trusted me,
saying yes, I can work Pro Tools.
They never saw me work ProTools.
You see what I'm saying.
They just trusted, based on therelationship we get built, that
I could do it.
You know I go to listen upaudio books.
(24:03):
At the time again, trusted withsome big sessions right Just
off of my character and therelationships that I had built
with the decision makers at thetime, they trusted me to do
those bigger sessions, hired asthe head engineer and studio
(24:25):
manager.
These weren't jobs that wereadvertised, they came from me
having a relationship with theowner of the studio, with the
director of production, rightRelationships, and then with
Michelle.
Again, my position was in aposition that was advertised.
It was created for me becauseof a relationship and I want to
be clear, because of arelationship.
You know, and I want to beclear, the relationship doesn't
(24:45):
supersede my ability to do thejob.
Sidney Evans (24:49):
Yes, and I'm so.
I was cause I was trying to, Iwas trying to find a way to jump
in there and emphasize on that,because the relationship may
lead to opportunity, but youhave to make sure when
opportunity comes you are ready,because if you can't deliver,
then they're not going to be seethe value which is going to
(25:09):
nurture the relationship.
It could turn into somethinggrandiose.
I'm the just the example of youknow an intern becoming a.
You know a engineer or anexecutive or whatever it's like.
Okay, they're going to, you mayhave based on relationship, you
may have an opportunity, but ifyou don't deliver, then you're
not going to see all the thingsthat come after it you're not
(25:30):
going to have access to.
So I'm glad, I'm glad youpointed on that.
So you have to, you have tohave already done the work when
the opportunity comes.
Dontae Hodge (25:38):
Yeah, like, and how you honor those people that
put you in position is bydoubling down on the trust that
they put on you by deliveringand over delivering, you know.
So that's why I don't take thatfor granted.
Like all those opportunities, Iwas always like man, like how
do I over deliver to honor thisperson?
(26:00):
And you know I feel like I didto honor this person and you
know I feel like I did.
I hope that these people wouldsay that I did if you were to
interview them or ask themquestions.
But I can say with everythingin me that I try to always honor
that.
You know, and even to this day,relationships are still blessing
me.
You know I'm doing a lot oflive sound gigs now, not to get
(26:20):
ahead of myself, but I'm doing alot of live sound gigs now and
I have a gig that's tomorrow.
And the crazy thing about thegig that's tomorrow is I'll be
mixing front of house.
But the guy who owns theproduction company that put me
in that position, he's neverheard me mix.
We just built a relationshiplike talking.
He sees something in me.
(26:43):
He sees, he likes somethingabout my character and he was
like man, I'm going to put youin position.
So I want people to wrap theirmind just around the importance
of relationships, because I tellmy students this all the time
Like being a great engineer isimportant.
In some ways your skills willget you in the room, but how you
(27:03):
treat people and how you makepeople feel will keep you in the
room and open other doors.
And you'll be surprised that alot of the people who are in
position and this is not to talkdown on anybody, but you'll be
surprised that a lot of thepeople who are in the positions,
they're not as skilled as youthink, and I want to say that
carefully because that's not tosay that they aren't skilled,
but they're not as skilled asyou think.
And I want to say thatcarefully because that's not to
say that they aren't skilled,but they're not as skilled as
(27:26):
you think.
And I say that to say they justhave the relationship.
They just make that person thatthey're working with feel a
certain way.
They make them feel comfortableand the skills are enough, but
the fact that they're just agood vibe, a good person to be
around, they have great energy,makes up for the rest.
They're just a good vibe, a goodperson to be around.
They have great energy, makesup for the rest.
(27:47):
So I just want people to keepthat in mind.
You know, as you're watchingall the YouTube videos about
engineering, about Pro Tools,about whatever, make sure that
you are constantly working onyourself to have the right
character traits, you know, sothat you have the right energy
and vibe about you when you'rein these spaces, because that's
what will right energy and vibeabout you when you're in these
spaces, because that's what willmake people want to work with
you.
And if you're a dope engineeron top of that, that's just
(28:08):
icing on the cake.
Sidney Evans (28:10):
It is definitely, and that's kind of another
perfect transition.
You said to because every,every, no matter what business
you in, it's a people business,right?
And you said you know, makesure you are working on yourself
to become the best person.
And, um, like there's, there'sso much, like you said, on
youtube and in on the internetas far as like the technical
side of like engineering andediting and whether you want to
(28:33):
do music producing or whatever.
But I did want to make surethis platform was talk was, yeah
, we could, we can touch alittle bit on the technical
stuff, but I kind of wanted toemphasize more of like the life
of living and being a person inthe industry, not just focusing
on the skill itself.
So, and I've always was taughtto be, you know, be good at you
(28:56):
know, whatever your passion is,whatever your career is or
whatever you're working on, butto develop all the other areas
as well.
And even when I tend to forgetthat, like my current girlfriend
, she will not allow me toneglect like, yeah, you want to.
You know what I'm saying.
You want to start the podcast,you want to be the best editor
(29:17):
possible.
You know what I'm saying.
You can't neglect things likeyour faith and being a good
person and giving back to peopleless fortunate or helping
people out, that and there's noway that they'll be able to
repay you, but just doing it,you know, out of the kindness of
your heart.
In what ways do you make sureyou're holding yourself
accountable as to being the bestperson you can be, whether it's
(29:40):
part of your daily routine,whether it's you know your
relationship with your familyseems like you have a great
relationship with your mother,whether it's you know some
people are super religious.
Some people you know love beingout in nature.
Some people meditate.
So like what do you outside of?
Like working, like how do youkind of keep yourself not only
grounded but also fresh?
(30:01):
So when the time comes toactually do work, you are coming
from like the most centered,true to yourself way to where
it's reflected in the work andit's of the highest quality.
Dontae Hodge (30:13):
Yeah, Wow, that's a great question, bro.
Thank you for that question,man.
You know, one thing that I'munashamedly open about is my
faith and what I believe in.
You know because and the reasonfor that is because I see how
it's affected my life in apositive way you know so how I
(30:34):
treat people, which goes rightback to how you make people feel
when it's just you and them ina studio, right?
Do you make them feel safe?
Right, and all of these things.
That comes back to my faith andwhat I believe in, and it's
something that was instilled inme from my grandmother growing
up in the Caribbean, west Indiangrandmother, like I, couldn't
(30:55):
not be in church and I'm sothankful for that man because
when I became an adult, it wasthe one thing where I was just
like no, I have to have thisrelationship and I have to have
it for myself and understand itand know it for myself.
And I went on that journey andit's just dictated so much of my
decision-making as it relatesto how I treat people, the
(31:19):
integrity I have as it relatesto my work, people, the
integrity I have as it relatesto my work, and these are the
little things that add up overtime.
You know that you don't do forany reason, you don't do it to
get any recognition, but it addsup over time and people see
something in you, because I'llnever forget one time I was the
previous job I had well atListen Up, you know I was
overpaid by mistake, right,there was like a payroll issue,
(31:42):
right, and I made them aware ofthat issue.
So, like little things likethat.
Where had I not had a solidfoundation in my faith and the
integrity that comes with that?
It might've been easy to justignore that mistake and, just
right, take the extra money.
But because of my integrity,because of my faith, I made this
thing known, right.
(32:03):
And again, I didn't do it toget any credit for them to, I
just did it because that's me,that's, that's how I moved,
that's what I believe in, andbut it is those little things
that people see in you andthey're like, oh, there's
something different about youand that's how we show up in the
world, right, as believers, aspeople who believe in.
(32:25):
I don't want to make this aboutone faith specifically, but
whatever you believe in, right,that's how you reflect that
thing is by how you show up inthe world.
So, yeah, man, my faith hasbeen everything, and family also
.
Like you said it, I'm a familyman, unashamedly so I try my
best to show up for them in ahealthy way, because I've been
on the other spectrum of that,where I show up and I try to do
(32:48):
too much right.
And we have to realize that wecan't control everything.
So, understanding what I cancontrol and what I might just
need to pray about, right, sounderstanding, hey, I might be
able to give advice about thisthing, I might be able to show
up for this thing, this thing Imight not have the capacity to
do anything with and I just needto pray about that.
And that's one thing that youknow I try to do daily.
(33:11):
You know, just prayer, time,time in my word.
You know, these are the thingsthat I believe keep me grounded,
grounded even in a season likeI'm in right now, where there's
a lot of uncertainty.
We're in a tough time in ourindustry and I think we're all
trying to figure it out, which Iwish we would all talk about a
little bit more, because I thinkeverybody's off in their own
(33:31):
little silo, thinking they'rethe only one that's going
through a hard time right now,but we're all trying to figure
it out right now.
So that's another thing I wantto say to anybody.
Maybe you're watching this andyou've been in an industry like
we have and you're just like man, I'm just trying to figure it
out right now.
It was going well.
Now I'm just trying to rebuildit.
We're all trying to figure itout, you know.
(33:52):
So, yeah, my faith is what'skeeping me grounded and keeping
that integrity, even as thingsdon't look as I would like them
to look.
That's what changes everything,you know.
That's what has been presentingall these opportunities that
are starting to come.
So hopefully that answers thequestion, man.
Sidney Evans (34:13):
Definitely, definitely.
So you just touched on faith.
We talked about the skill set,man, let's get into.
Let's talk about the, about themoney man like let's, just just
because that, that is, that isan aspect of it and you know
from from my experience workingin the industry, you know people
pay for writing, people willpay for video, like you know,
(34:36):
that's, that's the visual.
People pay a lot for that.
But when it comes down to theaudio, like people just kind of
it seems like you likescrambling to get the leftovers.
And when you actually thinkabout the experience of
storytelling, whether it's a TV,a movie, sports, a broadcast,
like if you don't have the audiopiece is you're not immersed in
(35:00):
it, like there's a, there's adisconnect.
You're, you're, you don't feelthat you're not immersed in it.
Like there's a there's adisconnect, you're you're, you
don't feel that you're notinvolved.
So on one end you know that itit potentially is the most
valuable thing, but everyoneelse is seen is at the least
valuable.
So the when it comes to, youknow, discussions about money,
(35:21):
there there's going to be adisconnect there, man.
So obviously you know.
You said you worked as, youworked as an intern, you worked
at, you worked at the studio,you weren't getting paid that
much.
You had some full-time jobs.
Now you're you're venturing outonto doing, uh, like your own
thing, so you're gonna.
You know, when you're in thesemeetings and obviously you have
(35:41):
the the money conversation isgoing to come up Like, how do
you approach what you feel likeyou should be paid?
How do you negotiate?
And then, obviously, there'sdifferent things involved on
based on, like, the scale of theperson or entity that you're
working with.
Like, if they have a hugeplatform, you know you may be
willing to take less because ofjust the connection to the brand
(36:03):
.
You know you may be willing totake less because of just the
connection to the brand.
There's some things that you'relike, yeah, they may not have
the biggest budget, but I reallybelieve in like this is
something that's impactful, solet's find a way to make it work
.
And there's some things thatpeople come to you where it's
like, unless you're not payingme top tier, I really don't want
to do it, you know.
So, like kind of talking, likethose battles and conversations,
(36:23):
not only that you have whennegotiating that, but that you
have within yourself whendeciding on what to and what not
to work on.
Dontae Hodge (36:31):
Yeah, we're getting into a reel.
So, man, the first thing I wantto say is sound is probably the
most important part of any typeof media, and I just want to
paint a picture really quickly.
Right, we can watch if justwant to paint a picture really
quickly.
Right, if we were to watch amovie without sound, nobody
wants to see that.
(36:51):
But we could watch or listen toa movie without the video,
because there are podcasts thatdo that.
There are podcasts that arejust audio, right, so we know
that we can listen to somethingwithout a visual, but we can't
watch something without audio.
So I just want to remind peopleof that and I want engineers to
have that perspective, oreditors, whatever you do, to
have that perspective, as peopletry to diminish what we do Now
(37:15):
as it relates to charging peopleand stuff like that.
So what I'll say, one of mybiggest regrets was is not
understanding my value quicker,right, you know, because one of
the things that I wish I leanedinto more, I told you early in
my story I was working with Mace, you know, who was a very
(37:35):
established artist at the time,was a well-known name, and he
only wanted to work with me, andat the time.
I wish I had looked at that andput that in perspective a
little bit more, not from thefact that it was Mace, but from
the fact that he's probably,probably worked with hundreds of
engineers and he wants to workwith this 19-year-old kid who's
just starting out.
So I wish I had put that moreinto perspective and realized my
(37:59):
value and that kind of seguesperfectly into being reasonable
with the situation right, andhow I judge what's reasonable is
really taking the full pictureinto context.
You know, how long have I beendoing this?
How many hours have I put in?
How much studying have I done,right?
So I was in year one at thatpoint in my professional career,
(38:21):
so I haven't put a whole lot ofhours in.
I mean, I'm fresh out ofuniversity, so I've put some
hours in and I've spent somemoney there, so that's worth
something.
So I've put some hours in andI've spent some money there, so
that's worth something.
But now I'm over a decade in at31.
I've put in my 10,000 hoursplus at this point, so I have to
charge with that in mind, youknow.
(38:42):
And what's helped me isunderstanding what people are
willing to pay me salary-wise ona yearly basis.
So now I take that as astarting point, right, I'm like,
okay, this is what people arewilling to pay me yearly on a
salary basis.
We know that no company,regardless of who's running the
company, will pay you exactlywhat you're worth.
(39:02):
They're going to pay yousomewhere under that because
that's economics right.
Taking that into consideration,and then I just kind of figure
out an hourly number from thereand then again, what's
reasonable given the situation?
Right, it might be I might beconsulting a church that's just
starting out on some audio,right?
Is that something that gets megoing?
(39:24):
Am I passionate about that?
Well, cool, I might be willingto take a pay cut to do that,
because I'm passionate abouthelping these people.
This is a topic that I'mpassionate about, you know, and
I'll be transparent.
I recently was hit up aboutdoing a live stream, right.
So I would be kind of producinga live stream.
So I would have been doingvideo, audio graphics, kind of a
(39:45):
little bit of everything.
So we're talking the job ofmaybe four people that I would
have been doing.
So now you have to take thatinto consideration.
If you were a production companyand you had to contract all
these four people, what wouldthat cost you as a production
company?
Well, I'm doing it as oneperson.
You have to charge with that inmind, because now you're under
(40:08):
more stress, now you're undermore pressure, it's more work
for you.
You have to charge with that inmind, because now you're under
more stress, now you're undermore pressure, it's more work
for you.
You have to charge with that inmind and full transparency.
I didn't.
I gave them what it would takefinancially and I didn't get the
job.
That'll happen sometime.
But I was able to be at peacewith it because I knew, if I had
taken a pay cut to do that job,the stress and the work it
(40:29):
would take.
It just wouldn't make sense.
So I would rather not get thejob than take the job for way
less.
Sidney Evans (40:37):
And let me, let me jump in real quick, because two
things I want to touch on.
Is that, like you said, you're,like you're at peace with that.
For some reason, it's like,when it comes to the money thing
, like there's it's allnegotiation really, like there's
no right or wrong, is just likeyou know what you're, what
you're willing to work for, whatthey're willing to pay you, but
(40:59):
for some reason it's likethere's cotton context of the
market and all those things.
But sometimes and this is notjust in conversation with money,
in all areas of life, like youhave to everything can't be
analytics.
Like you gotta go, like you'rea person, so you, you gotta go
with your, sometimes your gutinstinct or your, your, your,
your, your, uh, discernment, oryour, uh, whether that's you
(41:21):
know.
Like you might get discernmentfrom God to tell you whether you
should do it or not, eventhough the numbers may, to make
sense.
Dontae Hodge (41:28):
No, bro, I'm glad you brought it up because you're
absolutely right.
And as I strengthened my faith,that is part of it, like, what
is my spirit telling me aboutthis thing?
Like, because, again, justbeing around it, you kind of
learn what it takes Right.
And then, as you startinvesting in your own equipment,
you know, like I'm bringing myown console, I'm bringing my own
(41:48):
microphones.
You know, like I'm bringing myown console, I'm bringing my own
microphones.
You know, maybe I'm leveraginga relationship to get some
equipment.
You know, you have to put valueon all of those things.
You know, for example, if youwere to rent your console to
anybody else, maybe it'll be$300 a day, right?
You have to factor that in whenyou're invoicing for this gig.
Factor that in when you'reinvoicing for this gig.
So that's one thing that I'mreally really big about now, man
(42:12):
, just taking time to pray aboutit and using that discernment,
you know, because, man, allmoney isn't good money.
You know, every opportunityisn't an opportunity you should
be taking.
You know, and I've learned thatthe hard way.
You know, I've learned that thehard way, just chasing the
money, chasing the bag, you know, and realizing that no peace
(42:37):
came from it or it turned intosomething else and there is not
a dollar that's worth that.
If you believe in your faithagain, my faith is God, that's
me Right.
But if you believe in whateveryou believe in, you know you
have to believe it strong enoughto say if I don't feel in my
spirit that I need to be doingthis thing, you have to believe
in it strong enough to know thatyou'll be taken care of
(42:59):
somewhere else in another way me, it'll be for me, and I always
pray that it works out, even ifthey don't book me, that it
works out for them.
But if it doesn't work out forthem, I understand that you know
that'll be revealed to themthat, hey, next time maybe we'll
book him or not.
Sidney Evans (43:18):
But when you say like, okay, maybe they, you
charge them something, theydon't do it and they book
somebody that's cheaper and itdoesn't work out.
They may not book you of whatyou charge, but they may book
somebody else for that, which Iknow for all of us in doing it
together.
I'm not devaluing the industry.
(43:39):
So over the course of time, thenext opportunities I get, it
will be more in alignment forwhat I think the value of what
we do is, and I think that's theultimate goal.
Yeah, that's real.
Dontae Hodge (43:55):
That's real.
And how I look at it too, bro,is the quicker I can get to.
This is a weird way to look atit, but hear me out the quicker
I can get a note from somebody,the quicker I can find my people
.
Sidney Evans (44:07):
Exactly.
So yeah, we're going to wrapthings up soon, but for this
last portion, I just want to endthings on a lighter note.
Man, we talked about your story, talked about your journey,
talked about money, talked aboutskillset relationships.
I just want to kind of just endthings on a much lighter note.
So I got a couple of questionsto ask.
(44:29):
You're a music guy, so I askedall my guests this, but I think
this will be you'll beparticularly fond of these
questions and looking forward toseeing what your responses will
be.
So first one is what is yourfavorite album of all time?
Dontae Hodge (44:46):
I'm going to give you one that you probably don't
expect.
But when it came out itliterally changed my life.
Just because I was kind ofinterested in music at that time
, starting to do the engineeringthing, and I was just like, wow
, this sounds like a motionpicture, get rich or die, trying
by 50 Cent.
(45:06):
Like classic, I mean veryviolent, but I shouldn't have
been listening to it as a kid.
But, man, something about it,just like it was like a movie,
it was just so beautifully done,so that's one of my favorites,
man.
I mean I have a lot, but that'swhat came to mind.
Sidney Evans (45:26):
Okay, so next is favorite music producer.
Dontae Hodge (45:31):
Ooh, Brian Michael Cox.
Sidney Evans (45:42):
Brian, I knew it was coming.
I just he was on R&B Moneypodcast.
If you're not familiar withthat, you got to listen to it
and I just listened to his Earnyour Leisure episode yesterday.
Earn your leisure episodeyesterday.
Last two uh favorite film scoreman, I really enjoyed.
Dontae Hodge (45:54):
I really enjoyed.
Now, this is one that that newavatar movie that was actually
pretty solid.
Like yeah, that's what I'mgonna go with.
That's probably not a stronganswer.
I'm probably upsetting somebodyright now.
're like, how could you notlist, but that's what came to
mind.
Sidney Evans (46:10):
Sorry, y'all okay, yeah, that's, that's.
It is what it is um.
And last, my favorite tv themesong oh, fresh prince of bel-air
fresh prince.
Uh, I had a feeling, I had a,had a hunch, I had a hunch.
You're gonna go with that.
Um, uh, but before we end, like, how can people you know find
you on social media?
I'm sure you have a portfolioof previous things that you like
.
How can people you know findyou on social media?
(46:31):
I'm sure you have a portfolioof previous things that you've
worked on.
How can people find those ifthey're interested?
Yeah, like, where you, whereyou at, bro, where can they find
you?
Dontae Hodge (46:41):
Yeah, so the two main places will be Instagram.
I'm at Don's press play, sothat's D O N Z press play.
I'm still working on beingbetter at posting audio content.
Like right now it's a superlike inspirational page, which
that is part of who I am.
So I'm in the season of tryingto balance all of the things
that are in me, right.
(47:02):
So I love inspiring people.
I love, you know, firing peopleup and getting people to go
after whatever it is that theyfeel like they want to go after.
So I post a lot of that stuffon there.
But I'm working on some audiocontent and just finding that
balance.
So, at Don's Press Play onInstagram and LinkedIn is where
you can find, like, kind ofeverything that I've worked on.
(47:24):
So you know, if you lookthrough my experience, you'll
kind of see a lot of the names,a lot of the podcasts, a lot of
everything.
So that'll be a good place.
I am working on my website, sowhenever I do have that together
, you'll be able to find out onmy LinkedIn or in my IG bio.
So hopefully in the next monthto month and a half I'll have
(47:46):
that completed.
But those are the two mainplaces for now.
Sidney Evans (47:50):
Yeah, I think we're there.
I appreciate you coming on.
Yes, sir, wish you the best inall the future endeavors you
know, no matter how big or small, and and for all those
listening.
Thank you for tuning in and Iwill catch you on the next
episode.
Thank you for joining us ontoday's episode.
(48:15):
Please don't forget tosubscribe to the show and leave
us a review.
If you'd like to work with meor connect, please go to
soundbysitcom and schedule acall there.
You can also check out the fulllist of productions I've worked
on.
If you'd like to connect onsocial media, my handle is
soundbysetcom on Twitter andInstagram and I'm Sidney Evans
(48:36):
on LinkedIn.
Don't forget to follow Beyondthe Threshold on Instagram as
well.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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