July 10, 2025 • 10 mins
We just can't understand God. Trying to simplify HIm so we can understand isn't the answer though.
More information about Beyond the Walls, including additional resources can be found at www.beyondthewalls-ministry.com
This series included graphics to illustrate what is being taught, if you would like to watch the teachings you can do so on Rumble (https://rumble.com/user/SpokaneBibleChurch) or on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtV_KhFVZ_waBcnuywiRKIyEcDkiujRqP).
Jeremy Thomas is the pastor at Spokane Bible Church in Spokane, Washington and a professor at Chafer Theological Seminary. He has been teaching the Bible for over 20 years, always seeking to present its truths in a clear and understandable manner.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas and
our series on the New TestamentFramework.
Today a smaller, bite-sizedpiece from the larger lesson.
We hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It tried to answer the problem, but it answered it
in an unsatisfactory way,because there's no diversity in
Allah.
Now, mormonism did exactly theopposite.
Mormonism which does itemphasize one or the many, the
many, because there are multiplegods in Mormonism.
In fact, one day, if you're aMormon, you'll become a god
yourself and you'll populateyour own planet.
(00:32):
Okay, so there's all these gods, so it emphasizes the many, but
there is no balance.
See, everybody's dealing withthis.
Okay, it's just, are theydealing with it adequately?
In Christianity, there's unityand diversity in God, and I'm
going to start to show you nextweek how interesting this all is
.
Because in the Bible take, forexample, in the burning bush,
(00:55):
here comes Moses, there's thisbush burning, it's on fire, but
it's not burning up, right, it'sa strange sight.
So he starts to approach it andthis voice comes out of the
bush says take off your sandalsfor the feet.
I mean, the ground on which youare standing is holy ground,
right.
And he, moses, asks as he comestoward the bush what is your
name?
That I may tell the hebrews inegypt your name?
(01:17):
And he says what I am, one ormany one.
Now, in the book of genesis,126, 27, 28, he's on the sixth
day and he's about to create man.
And he says what?
Let us which is the emphasis,the many in god.
(01:39):
They're both true there's aunity and there's diversity in
him, and that's the basis forall unity and diversity that we
experience in our lives, allaround us.
This is why there are triads increation.
Now, by the way, triads what doI mean by a triad?
I mean three in one.
Okay, the people who foundedthis country, the United States
(02:03):
of America, back in 1776 andlater, when the Constitution in
1789, especially with theConstitution, they set up a
particular type of governmentthat we call a republic, the
republic for which I stand right.
When they did that, most ofthese men were influenced by
(02:24):
Christian thinking.
They actually did thispurposefully, based on Trinity,
when they set up our onegovernment, with how many
branches?
Three, everybody learned thisin government class right the
executive branch, thelegislative branch, the judicial
branch.
Why not four?
(02:44):
Why not two?
Why not just one?
Because they recognize theimportance of unity and
diversity, because they alreadyknew about unity and diversity
in God and they wanted toreflect that.
There are triads also, as I'vementioned.
(03:06):
One of my favorite ones is inmusic.
You have one piece of music butit has three parts rhythm,
melody, harmony.
Some people have pointed outthings like the egg, which has
the albumen, the yolk and theshell, and they say one egg but
has three parts.
Actually, if you get allinvolved, there's also an air
sack, and you know.
So my point in saying that'sthree parts.
(03:28):
Actually, if you get allinvolved, there's also an air
sac.
So my point in saying that isthat when you find a triad in
creation, it's never going to beperfect representation of God.
It can't.
It's a finite thing.
God is not finite.
So when we see these triads,they're very interesting, but at
some point they will break downas far as being a perfect
reflection of who God is.
(03:49):
Because?
Why?
Because you've got the creationdown here and you've got the
creator, and he's not subject tothe limitations that we are
subject to Now.
So what does this mean aboutlanguage and logic and category?
Very simple Again.
(04:09):
We have threeness and onenessdown here in creation.
Right Now, god is three in one,but guess what?
Not in exactly the way that weexperience in creation.
It's similar, though, but wedon't have a total grasp of him.
This is the whole point.
We do not have a total grasp ofhim.
This is the whole point.
We do not have a total grasp ofthe nature of god, it is.
(04:31):
He is incomprehensible.
Okay, we will never totallycomprehend him.
We can only understand in partwho he is.
But when we see three in onedown here, here's the deal.
It's a finite derivative of whohe is, and that's why we have
it, and that's why we havelanguage and that's why we have
(04:54):
logic, and it's the reason wehave categories that we can
trust, whereas the world's likewe've got to have this concrete,
universal a thing like a god,but there's not one there
because we're in denial of that.
So we just go on as if theseproblems are just going to go
away Now.
So this is the problem forpagans when do they get these
(05:17):
absolute categories?
So language and logic are notslipping and sliding all over
the place.
Here's the question Can you everknow a thing perfectly?
What do you have to know in youever know a thing perfectly?
What do you have to know inorder to know a thing perfectly?
You have to have perfectknowledge of everything.
Let me give an example.
Do you know what a Morky is?
(05:38):
It's a particular in the dogcategory.
Well, here's the thing.
Have you ever observed everysingle more key that has ever
lived?
Well, if you're not, how do youknow what a more key is and
what its characteristics are?
Let's say you're a dog judgeand you've evaluated 2,500 more
(05:59):
keys and the 2,500 and firstmore key comes along and it has
a different characteristic.
Here's the question Is it aMorkey?
Now, do we have to change thecategory to include this dog, or
are we making a differentcategory?
(06:19):
This is what I'm saying aboutpagan knowledge.
It's slippery, it's sliding,it's fuzzy, and the reason is
because the categories that weset up are not built on absolute
, infinite knowledge.
That's why you are an economicguru, okay.
You sit there and you watchmarkets.
You take a pattern for themarket.
(06:40):
This year, you take a pattern.
The second year, you'rebuilding a model right, based on
patterns for the market.
This year, you take a pattern.
The second year, you'rebuilding a model right based on
patterns in the market.
Year three, you're building apattern and you're saying oh, I
see how this works.
Year four boom, destroys yourknowledge, covid.
Okay, the point is in paganknowledge.
(07:00):
Here's the problem.
The problem is you never knowwhat the next piece of data is
going to be.
So you can never say you knowsomething perfectly.
In fact, as I said earlier, ifyou actually, as a person, claim
to have knowledge, an absolutetype of knowledge, you'll be
considered arrogant anduncultured.
But this is the problem forpagan knowledge you can never
(07:22):
get certain knowledge becausewhat you need for a perfect
model is omniscience, and theonly place you can get that is
the Trinity.
This is what we've seen in thewhole story of evolution and
creation debates over the last200 years, starting in geology
with Hutton and Lyell in thelate 1700s and developing this
(07:43):
discussion At the time thatHutton and Lyell started all
this in geology.
You know how much time theywere trying to add to the
biblical accepted age of theearth About 50,000 years,
nothing, nothing I mean tocompare to today, right?
So on a pagan basis?
Let's just say did Hutton andLyle have knowledge on a pagan
(08:04):
basis?
Well, it was a 50,000 year oldearth.
What are they saying?
The age of the earth is now 4.6billion years old.
That's a little different than50,000.
I mean, just slightly, just ahair off.
I mean, are you kidding me?
These aren't even close numbers.
(08:25):
If I had $50,000, I'd be happy,but if I had 4.6 billion, you
see the difference.
Right, it's quite a bit of adifference and it keeps changing
.
It keeps changing.
Do you really have knowledge?
See, that's my point.
No, there's no knowledge there.
(08:45):
I had to learn all that stuff.
I had to spit it on the testand get A's and stuff and become
proctors and all this stuff forexams and teach labs and all
that, and it was all what Idon't know, stuff that's
probably obsolete now.
Why did I take up all my braincells to do that?
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, but I did it to get
(09:07):
the grades right.
So here's what Van Till statedat the end of this discussion of
the one and the many, and herealized this in the 30s, the
1930s.
He realized that Christianityis the only answer to the
problem of the one and many thateverybody is working with every
day of their life, in theirmarriages, in their families, in
their countries, in their localcommunities.
They're dealing with every dayof their life, in their
marriages, in their families, intheir countries, in their local
(09:29):
communities.
They're dealing with thisproblem all the time.
And he said this Using thelanguage of the one and many
question.
We contend that in God, the oneand many are equally.
Ultimate.
Unity in God is no morefundamental than diversity, and
diversity in God is no morefundamental than unity.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
The persons of the Trinity are mutually exhaustive
of one another.
Thank you for joining us onBeyond the Walls with Jeremy
Thomas.
If you would like to see thevisuals that went along with
today's sermon, you can findthose on Rumble and on YouTube
under Spokane Bible Church.
That is where Jeremy is thepastor and teacher.
We hope you found today'slesson productive and useful in
(10:06):
growing closer to God andwalking more obediently with Him
.
If you found this podcast to beuseful and helpful, then please
consider rating us in yourfavorite podcast app.
And until next time, we hopeyou have a blessed and wonderful
day.
Welcome to Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas and
our series on the New TestamentFramework.
Today a smaller, bite-sizedpiece from the larger lesson.
We hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It tried to answer the problem, but it answered it
in an unsatisfactory way,because there's no diversity in
Allah.
Now, mormonism did exactly theopposite.
Mormonism which does itemphasize one or the many, the
many, because there are multiplegods in Mormonism.
In fact, one day, if you're aMormon, you'll become a god
yourself and you'll populateyour own planet.
(00:32):
Okay, so there's all these gods, so it emphasizes the many, but
there is no balance.
See, everybody's dealing withthis.
Okay, it's just, are theydealing with it adequately?
In Christianity, there's unityand diversity in God, and I'm
going to start to show you nextweek how interesting this all is
.
Because in the Bible take, forexample, in the burning bush,
(00:55):
here comes Moses, there's thisbush burning, it's on fire, but
it's not burning up, right, it'sa strange sight.
So he starts to approach it andthis voice comes out of the
bush says take off your sandalsfor the feet.
I mean, the ground on which youare standing is holy ground,
right.
And he, moses, asks as he comestoward the bush what is your
name?
That I may tell the hebrews inegypt your name?
(01:17):
And he says what I am, one ormany one.
Now, in the book of genesis,126, 27, 28, he's on the sixth
day and he's about to create man.
And he says what?
Let us which is the emphasis,the many in god.
(01:39):
They're both true there's aunity and there's diversity in
him, and that's the basis forall unity and diversity that we
experience in our lives, allaround us.
This is why there are triads increation.
Now, by the way, triads what doI mean by a triad?
I mean three in one.
Okay, the people who foundedthis country, the United States
(02:03):
of America, back in 1776 andlater, when the Constitution in
1789, especially with theConstitution, they set up a
particular type of governmentthat we call a republic, the
republic for which I stand right.
When they did that, most ofthese men were influenced by
(02:24):
Christian thinking.
They actually did thispurposefully, based on Trinity,
when they set up our onegovernment, with how many
branches?
Three, everybody learned thisin government class right the
executive branch, thelegislative branch, the judicial
branch.
Why not four?
(02:44):
Why not two?
Why not just one?
Because they recognize theimportance of unity and
diversity, because they alreadyknew about unity and diversity
in God and they wanted toreflect that.
There are triads also, as I'vementioned.
(03:06):
One of my favorite ones is inmusic.
You have one piece of music butit has three parts rhythm,
melody, harmony.
Some people have pointed outthings like the egg, which has
the albumen, the yolk and theshell, and they say one egg but
has three parts.
Actually, if you get allinvolved, there's also an air
sack, and you know.
So my point in saying that'sthree parts.
(03:28):
Actually, if you get allinvolved, there's also an air
sac.
So my point in saying that isthat when you find a triad in
creation, it's never going to beperfect representation of God.
It can't.
It's a finite thing.
God is not finite.
So when we see these triads,they're very interesting, but at
some point they will break downas far as being a perfect
reflection of who God is.
(03:49):
Because?
Why?
Because you've got the creationdown here and you've got the
creator, and he's not subject tothe limitations that we are
subject to Now.
So what does this mean aboutlanguage and logic and category?
Very simple Again.
(04:09):
We have threeness and onenessdown here in creation.
Right Now, god is three in one,but guess what?
Not in exactly the way that weexperience in creation.
It's similar, though, but wedon't have a total grasp of him.
This is the whole point.
We do not have a total grasp ofhim.
This is the whole point.
We do not have a total grasp ofthe nature of god, it is.
(04:31):
He is incomprehensible.
Okay, we will never totallycomprehend him.
We can only understand in partwho he is.
But when we see three in onedown here, here's the deal.
It's a finite derivative of whohe is, and that's why we have
it, and that's why we havelanguage and that's why we have
(04:54):
logic, and it's the reason wehave categories that we can
trust, whereas the world's likewe've got to have this concrete,
universal a thing like a god,but there's not one there
because we're in denial of that.
So we just go on as if theseproblems are just going to go
away Now.
So this is the problem forpagans when do they get these
(05:17):
absolute categories?
So language and logic are notslipping and sliding all over
the place.
Here's the question Can you everknow a thing perfectly?
What do you have to know in youever know a thing perfectly?
What do you have to know inorder to know a thing perfectly?
You have to have perfectknowledge of everything.
Let me give an example.
Do you know what a Morky is?
(05:38):
It's a particular in the dogcategory.
Well, here's the thing.
Have you ever observed everysingle more key that has ever
lived?
Well, if you're not, how do youknow what a more key is and
what its characteristics are?
Let's say you're a dog judgeand you've evaluated 2,500 more
(05:59):
keys and the 2,500 and firstmore key comes along and it has
a different characteristic.
Here's the question Is it aMorkey?
Now, do we have to change thecategory to include this dog, or
are we making a differentcategory?
(06:19):
This is what I'm saying aboutpagan knowledge.
It's slippery, it's sliding,it's fuzzy, and the reason is
because the categories that weset up are not built on absolute
, infinite knowledge.
That's why you are an economicguru, okay.
You sit there and you watchmarkets.
You take a pattern for themarket.
(06:40):
This year, you take a pattern.
The second year, you'rebuilding a model right, based on
patterns for the market.
This year, you take a pattern.
The second year, you'rebuilding a model right based on
patterns in the market.
Year three, you're building apattern and you're saying oh, I
see how this works.
Year four boom, destroys yourknowledge, covid.
Okay, the point is in paganknowledge.
(07:00):
Here's the problem.
The problem is you never knowwhat the next piece of data is
going to be.
So you can never say you knowsomething perfectly.
In fact, as I said earlier, ifyou actually, as a person, claim
to have knowledge, an absolutetype of knowledge, you'll be
considered arrogant anduncultured.
But this is the problem forpagan knowledge you can never
(07:22):
get certain knowledge becausewhat you need for a perfect
model is omniscience, and theonly place you can get that is
the Trinity.
This is what we've seen in thewhole story of evolution and
creation debates over the last200 years, starting in geology
with Hutton and Lyell in thelate 1700s and developing this
(07:43):
discussion At the time thatHutton and Lyell started all
this in geology.
You know how much time theywere trying to add to the
biblical accepted age of theearth About 50,000 years,
nothing, nothing I mean tocompare to today, right?
So on a pagan basis?
Let's just say did Hutton andLyle have knowledge on a pagan
(08:04):
basis?
Well, it was a 50,000 year oldearth.
What are they saying?
The age of the earth is now 4.6billion years old.
That's a little different than50,000.
I mean, just slightly, just ahair off.
I mean, are you kidding me?
These aren't even close numbers.
(08:25):
If I had $50,000, I'd be happy,but if I had 4.6 billion, you
see the difference.
Right, it's quite a bit of adifference and it keeps changing
.
It keeps changing.
Do you really have knowledge?
See, that's my point.
No, there's no knowledge there.
(08:45):
I had to learn all that stuff.
I had to spit it on the testand get A's and stuff and become
proctors and all this stuff forexams and teach labs and all
that, and it was all what Idon't know, stuff that's
probably obsolete now.
Why did I take up all my braincells to do that?
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, but I did it to get
(09:07):
the grades right.
So here's what Van Till statedat the end of this discussion of
the one and the many, and herealized this in the 30s, the
1930s.
He realized that Christianityis the only answer to the
problem of the one and many thateverybody is working with every
day of their life, in theirmarriages, in their families, in
their countries, in their localcommunities.
They're dealing with every dayof their life, in their
marriages, in their families, intheir countries, in their local
(09:29):
communities.
They're dealing with thisproblem all the time.
And he said this Using thelanguage of the one and many
question.
We contend that in God, the oneand many are equally.
Ultimate.
Unity in God is no morefundamental than diversity, and
diversity in God is no morefundamental than unity.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
The persons of the Trinity are mutually exhaustive
of one another.
Thank you for joining us onBeyond the Walls with Jeremy
Thomas.
If you would like to see thevisuals that went along with
today's sermon, you can findthose on Rumble and on YouTube
under Spokane Bible Church.
That is where Jeremy is thepastor and teacher.
We hope you found today'slesson productive and useful in
(10:06):
growing closer to God andwalking more obediently with Him
.
If you found this podcast to beuseful and helpful, then please
consider rating us in yourfavorite podcast app.
And until next time, we hopeyou have a blessed and wonderful
day.
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