November 18, 2025 • 12 mins
Jeremy traces the path from Calvin’s evolving writings to the Synod of Dort and the TULIP framework, then weigh total depravity, unconditional election, and limited atonement against Scripture.
More information about Beyond the Walls, including additional resources can be found at www.beyondthewalls-ministry.com
This series included graphics to illustrate what is being taught, if you would like to watch the teachings you can do so on Rumble (https://rumble.com/user/SpokaneBibleChurch) or on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtV_KhFVZ_waBcnuywiRKIyEcDkiujRqP).
Jeremy Thomas is the pastor at Spokane Bible Church in Spokane, Washington and a professor at Chafer Theological Seminary. He has been teaching the Bible for over 20 years, always seeking to present its truths in a clear and understandable manner.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas and
our series on the New Testamentframework.
Today, a smaller, bite-sizedpiece from the larger lesson.
We hope you enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
There were strict Calvinists in the area too, and
what did they do?
Well, they didn't like this atall.
And so they came up with thethey they had a synod called the
Synod of Dort, and theydeveloped what has become known
now as Calvinism.
Again, Calvin died in 1564, sothis is 1619.
So what 50 or 55 years later,right?
(00:32):
Actually, you know, when I gotinto this 20 years ago, a little
more than about 23, 24 yearsago, reading on this topic,
there were at the time only hewrote in French.
Okay, Calvin wrote in French.
There were only two livingscholars who were theologians
and could read French and wereof scholastic level to be able
(00:55):
to determine if Calvin actuallybelieved these five things.
And those two guys disagreed.
Roger Nicole was one.
I'm trying to remember the nameof the other guy.
But they um see, here's thething about your life as well as
every every Christian's life.
You have a set of beliefs, butthey change over time.
(01:18):
I mean, nobody the day theybecame a believer holds the same
theology now as they did the daythey were a believer, became a
believer.
So your your theology is goingto change.
Now just think if we wrote downevery little jot and tittle of
what you believed along the way.
See, I mean, it would it wouldchange, and we'd have to say,
well, what did so-and-so believeon this date in their life,
(01:40):
okay, versus what they believeat this date in their life.
And sometimes this is very hardto evaluate someone like Calvin
because these writings are,well, five centuries ago, right?
So, you know, he had 27different uh versions of his
institutes of the Christianreligion.
27.
So you if you have 27 differenteditions of one book that you
(02:05):
wrote, it's probably changing.
And that's why you'rere-releasing it, right?
So when he first wrote it, hewas, I think, 26 years old when
he wrote his first version.
It was very small.
Now it's two-volume, right?
That the final product in 1564is two volume.
So some of the evaluation ofthese guys' beliefs, it's
(02:26):
difficult.
Um, there are definitely placesin Calvin's writing where he
sounds like he believes that theatonement was for every person.
And there are other places whereit sounds like he believed that
Christ only died for a subset ofthe human race.
Now listen carefully.
If you read the Bible, it soundsexactly like that.
(02:48):
I'll show you next week.
There are passages that say hedied for his sheep.
They came for his people, hischurch.
And then there are otherpassages that say he died for
the whole world.
So what you read in Calvin isactually quite reflective of
what you find in the Bible.
But nailing him down on thisparticular question is
(03:08):
difficult, again, because hiswritings are changing, you're
not sure exactly where he is.
But his followers certainlybelieve the things that we're
going to put up today.
And these things are held by uhPresbyterians, Reformed
churches, some Reformed Baptistsand uh and uh independent
churches.
You just have to find out.
It's always important to findout what people believe.
(03:29):
Um so here's the acronym, theycame up with an acronym TULIP
that came out of that synod.
Total depravity is the T inTULIP, right?
Now, what they said was man isentirely affected by sin.
He cannot respond positively toGod or produce any work meriting
salvation.
Now, some of those things Ithink we can agree with, right?
(03:49):
Can we do any work that meritssalvation, for example?
Well, no.
Uh that's quite clear from theBible.
Um, is man entirely what theymeant by man is entirely
affected by sin was they meantthat man was not fallen just
from the neck down, that he wasfallen from the very tip of his
head down.
Now, what do they mean by that?
What's the difference?
(04:11):
Well, uh, Armenians like tothink that the mental capacity
was restored so that peoplecould reason perfectly,
basically.
Um, and and and thereby theirmind was not fallen.
Okay.
Mental capacity was left incheck.
It was okay by prevenient grace.
But the Calvinists said, no,man's entirely affected from the
(04:34):
top down.
Every part of us is affected bysin.
Um, I would agree with that.
Every part of us is affected bysin.
It's not like one part got leftout and somehow isn't affected
by sin.
So we're all affected by sin.
And then they also say we cannotrespond positively to God.
Now that's a big question.
We certainly see people respondpositively to God in the Bible.
I mean, when Adam sinned, hewent and hid, but God said, Hey,
(04:57):
where are you?
And Adam, okay, he comes out ofhiding, so to speak, right?
He responds to God.
You know, God called Abraham.
Abraham believed God and it wascredited to him as
righteousness.
We see people respond to God allthe time through the Bible.
Paul's preaching the gospel, andLydia, he's hearing and she
receives this and she believes.
(05:17):
So you see a lot of peopleresponding positively in the
Bible.
In fact, at one point in yourlife, what did you do?
You responded positively to thegospel.
Um so we do see men respondpositively to the gospel
message.
The question becomes like, why?
(05:38):
You know, is it what's going onthere?
How does this work?
So we won't place any kind ofjudgment on that statement yet.
Um, but total depravity is thefirst point.
Second point is unconditionalelection.
Now, this is different from whatwe saw before, which was
conditional election, right?
God foreknew, he saw downthrough the corridors of time
who would believe, and then hechose those.
(06:01):
In this view, in the Arminianview, see, what Calvinists are
thinking you're saying, and itsounds like this is what they're
saying, is that these people aregoing to believe, and God
responds by electing them.
In other words, man makes thefirst move toward God.
This is the way it's viewed.
Um the Calvinists didn't likethat.
(06:22):
They said, no, no, no, man, mandoesn't make the first move
toward God.
God makes the first move to man.
I think that would be the casein Genesis, right?
I mean, every picture we see inthe Bible, not just Genesis, but
every picture we see God is theinitiator.
He initiates with fallen man.
I mean, Adam wasn't like,where's God now that I sinned?
Where can I find him?
(06:42):
You know, I need to figure thisout.
No, he said, I'll figure it outmyself.
He made fig leaves, and thenwhen he heard the sound of the
Lord of God, he went and hid.
So it's not like man is justlooking for God, so to speak.
It's more that it seems that Godis the one looking for men.
And Romans 3, Acts 17 bothconfirm this type of point of
(07:03):
view.
So I've but this still has somequestions because sometimes we
see people interested in thethings of God in the Bible.
And and that that so we need tothink about that too.
But um, so for the Calvinists,unconditional election, not like
the Arminian view, they justsaid God has chosen certain
individuals to be saved frombefore the foundation of the
(07:24):
world.
Okay.
In other words, God was notconditioned by anything inside
of creation.
He didn't look down here and seewho you were or what you
decisions you would make orwhether you would believe in his
son or not.
That was totally irrelevant.
God just chose certainindividuals to be saved, and the
others he either passed over orchose them to go to hell.
(07:48):
You know, which would be calleddouble predestination, right?
Which is a concept in some ofthe writings of John Calvin and
others, of course.
So that's the idea ofunconditional election.
Now, most of you, maybe not all,but a lot of you probably think,
well, that doesn't sound fair.
I mean, before the foundation ofthe world, he selected certain
people to be saved, and the resthe selected to go to hell, or he
(08:12):
just passed over.
Either way, it it sounds likethere's no human response that
would be even considered.
Right?
If you're elect, you'll besaved.
If you're not, you won't.
And that's just the way it is.
And God set that up before thefoundation of the world, and
that's just the way it is.
So a lot of people havestruggled with that point,
(08:34):
right?
Nat naturally, I think.
I I mean a Calvinist would say,well, your thinking is natural,
it's fallen.
You need to get straight andthink right with God.
But you you can see that thispoint does cause some turmoil
for people because it doesn'tsound fair.
And it it seems to be sayingsomething about God that doesn't
(08:55):
resonate with us.
Like, is that really how God is?
See?
Is that does he just pick andchoose who's gonna be saved and
that's it?
Okay.
Uh third point.
Now I I'm gonna a as we gothrough this, notice these are
all logically connected.
If you read any five-pointCalvinist who's worth his salt,
(09:16):
they will tell you that thesefive points all go together or
they all fall apart.
You cannot pick and choose whichones you believe and which ones
you don't, they will say.
Because it's a logical andcoherent system.
And I agree with that.
After twenty something years ofstudying this, I agree that this
is a logical system.
(09:37):
And uh most people who hold tothis um are what I would call
analytical, minded, uh logicallyminded people.
Um it doesn't make it rightbecause I hold to you know,
there's different ideas oflogic.
There's logic.
We know God created logic, it'sit's built into human language,
which God created and he firsttaught us to speak.
(10:00):
So we have no problem with theconcept of there's human logic,
right?
But there's also a meta-logic.
There's a logic that's perfectin who God is, and he's
perfectly logical withinhimself, and everything he does
or writes in the scripture isperfectly logical.
The question is finding out whatis the logic, what it what is
the Bible teaching as a whole?
(10:21):
What how do we put all thepassages together?
It takes a lot of work, right?
But um, so theirs is a logicalsystem, growing out of total
depravity, if you're justentirely dead, you can't respond
to God.
But God chose certain people tobe saved, then limited
atonement, right?
The ones that God chose to besaved are the only ones Christ
(10:42):
died for.
So this is really the point thatI wanted to get to in our study,
right?
But you can see that in thisview, he did not die for each
and every individual.
He only died for those who hechose before the foundation of
the world.
So the atonement that Christoffered in their viewpoint is
not for everybody.
(11:03):
In other words, you could notreally go out onto the streets
of Spokane and say to someone,Christ died for you.
Why?
Because you don't know if Christdied for them.
If that you because you can'ttell if they're elect or not,
they don't have a little signthat says elect or not.
(11:24):
Um and people have joked overthe years, if I knew, you know,
Calvinists themselves have saidif I knew who the non-elect were
elect were, I wouldn't even mindpreaching to them.
Okay.
So again, this one sometimesalso really bothers people
because they're thinking thingslike John 3.16, for God so loved
the world, and they're thinking,how can you say that's not
(11:45):
everybody?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Walls
with Jeremy Thomas.
If you would like to see thevisuals that went along with
today's sermon, you can findthose on Rumble and on YouTube
under Spoke and Bible Church.
That is where Jeremy is thepastor and teacher.
We hope you found today's lessonproductive and useful in growing
(12:07):
closer to God and walking moreobediently with Him.
If you found this podcast to beuseful and helpful, then please
consider rating us in yourfavorite podcast app.
And until next time, we hope youhave a blessed and wonderful
day.
Welcome to Beyond the Walls with Jeremy Thomas and
our series on the New Testamentframework.
Today, a smaller, bite-sizedpiece from the larger lesson.
We hope you enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
There were strict Calvinists in the area too, and
what did they do?
Well, they didn't like this atall.
And so they came up with thethey they had a synod called the
Synod of Dort, and theydeveloped what has become known
now as Calvinism.
Again, Calvin died in 1564, sothis is 1619.
So what 50 or 55 years later,right?
(00:32):
Actually, you know, when I gotinto this 20 years ago, a little
more than about 23, 24 yearsago, reading on this topic,
there were at the time only hewrote in French.
Okay, Calvin wrote in French.
There were only two livingscholars who were theologians
and could read French and wereof scholastic level to be able
(00:55):
to determine if Calvin actuallybelieved these five things.
And those two guys disagreed.
Roger Nicole was one.
I'm trying to remember the nameof the other guy.
But they um see, here's thething about your life as well as
every every Christian's life.
You have a set of beliefs, butthey change over time.
(01:18):
I mean, nobody the day theybecame a believer holds the same
theology now as they did the daythey were a believer, became a
believer.
So your your theology is goingto change.
Now just think if we wrote downevery little jot and tittle of
what you believed along the way.
See, I mean, it would it wouldchange, and we'd have to say,
well, what did so-and-so believeon this date in their life,
(01:40):
okay, versus what they believeat this date in their life.
And sometimes this is very hardto evaluate someone like Calvin
because these writings are,well, five centuries ago, right?
So, you know, he had 27different uh versions of his
institutes of the Christianreligion.
27.
So you if you have 27 differenteditions of one book that you
(02:05):
wrote, it's probably changing.
And that's why you'rere-releasing it, right?
So when he first wrote it, hewas, I think, 26 years old when
he wrote his first version.
It was very small.
Now it's two-volume, right?
That the final product in 1564is two volume.
So some of the evaluation ofthese guys' beliefs, it's
(02:26):
difficult.
Um, there are definitely placesin Calvin's writing where he
sounds like he believes that theatonement was for every person.
And there are other places whereit sounds like he believed that
Christ only died for a subset ofthe human race.
Now listen carefully.
If you read the Bible, it soundsexactly like that.
(02:48):
I'll show you next week.
There are passages that say hedied for his sheep.
They came for his people, hischurch.
And then there are otherpassages that say he died for
the whole world.
So what you read in Calvin isactually quite reflective of
what you find in the Bible.
But nailing him down on thisparticular question is
(03:08):
difficult, again, because hiswritings are changing, you're
not sure exactly where he is.
But his followers certainlybelieve the things that we're
going to put up today.
And these things are held by uhPresbyterians, Reformed
churches, some Reformed Baptistsand uh and uh independent
churches.
You just have to find out.
It's always important to findout what people believe.
(03:29):
Um so here's the acronym, theycame up with an acronym TULIP
that came out of that synod.
Total depravity is the T inTULIP, right?
Now, what they said was man isentirely affected by sin.
He cannot respond positively toGod or produce any work meriting
salvation.
Now, some of those things Ithink we can agree with, right?
(03:49):
Can we do any work that meritssalvation, for example?
Well, no.
Uh that's quite clear from theBible.
Um, is man entirely what theymeant by man is entirely
affected by sin was they meantthat man was not fallen just
from the neck down, that he wasfallen from the very tip of his
head down.
Now, what do they mean by that?
What's the difference?
(04:11):
Well, uh, Armenians like tothink that the mental capacity
was restored so that peoplecould reason perfectly,
basically.
Um, and and and thereby theirmind was not fallen.
Okay.
Mental capacity was left incheck.
It was okay by prevenient grace.
But the Calvinists said, no,man's entirely affected from the
(04:34):
top down.
Every part of us is affected bysin.
Um, I would agree with that.
Every part of us is affected bysin.
It's not like one part got leftout and somehow isn't affected
by sin.
So we're all affected by sin.
And then they also say we cannotrespond positively to God.
Now that's a big question.
We certainly see people respondpositively to God in the Bible.
I mean, when Adam sinned, hewent and hid, but God said, Hey,
(04:57):
where are you?
And Adam, okay, he comes out ofhiding, so to speak, right?
He responds to God.
You know, God called Abraham.
Abraham believed God and it wascredited to him as
righteousness.
We see people respond to God allthe time through the Bible.
Paul's preaching the gospel, andLydia, he's hearing and she
receives this and she believes.
(05:17):
So you see a lot of peopleresponding positively in the
Bible.
In fact, at one point in yourlife, what did you do?
You responded positively to thegospel.
Um so we do see men respondpositively to the gospel
message.
The question becomes like, why?
(05:38):
You know, is it what's going onthere?
How does this work?
So we won't place any kind ofjudgment on that statement yet.
Um, but total depravity is thefirst point.
Second point is unconditionalelection.
Now, this is different from whatwe saw before, which was
conditional election, right?
God foreknew, he saw downthrough the corridors of time
who would believe, and then hechose those.
(06:01):
In this view, in the Arminianview, see, what Calvinists are
thinking you're saying, and itsounds like this is what they're
saying, is that these people aregoing to believe, and God
responds by electing them.
In other words, man makes thefirst move toward God.
This is the way it's viewed.
Um the Calvinists didn't likethat.
(06:22):
They said, no, no, no, man, mandoesn't make the first move
toward God.
God makes the first move to man.
I think that would be the casein Genesis, right?
I mean, every picture we see inthe Bible, not just Genesis, but
every picture we see God is theinitiator.
He initiates with fallen man.
I mean, Adam wasn't like,where's God now that I sinned?
Where can I find him?
(06:42):
You know, I need to figure thisout.
No, he said, I'll figure it outmyself.
He made fig leaves, and thenwhen he heard the sound of the
Lord of God, he went and hid.
So it's not like man is justlooking for God, so to speak.
It's more that it seems that Godis the one looking for men.
And Romans 3, Acts 17 bothconfirm this type of point of
(07:03):
view.
So I've but this still has somequestions because sometimes we
see people interested in thethings of God in the Bible.
And and that that so we need tothink about that too.
But um, so for the Calvinists,unconditional election, not like
the Arminian view, they justsaid God has chosen certain
individuals to be saved frombefore the foundation of the
(07:24):
world.
Okay.
In other words, God was notconditioned by anything inside
of creation.
He didn't look down here and seewho you were or what you
decisions you would make orwhether you would believe in his
son or not.
That was totally irrelevant.
God just chose certainindividuals to be saved, and the
others he either passed over orchose them to go to hell.
(07:48):
You know, which would be calleddouble predestination, right?
Which is a concept in some ofthe writings of John Calvin and
others, of course.
So that's the idea ofunconditional election.
Now, most of you, maybe not all,but a lot of you probably think,
well, that doesn't sound fair.
I mean, before the foundation ofthe world, he selected certain
people to be saved, and the resthe selected to go to hell, or he
(08:12):
just passed over.
Either way, it it sounds likethere's no human response that
would be even considered.
Right?
If you're elect, you'll besaved.
If you're not, you won't.
And that's just the way it is.
And God set that up before thefoundation of the world, and
that's just the way it is.
So a lot of people havestruggled with that point,
(08:34):
right?
Nat naturally, I think.
I I mean a Calvinist would say,well, your thinking is natural,
it's fallen.
You need to get straight andthink right with God.
But you you can see that thispoint does cause some turmoil
for people because it doesn'tsound fair.
And it it seems to be sayingsomething about God that doesn't
(08:55):
resonate with us.
Like, is that really how God is?
See?
Is that does he just pick andchoose who's gonna be saved and
that's it?
Okay.
Uh third point.
Now I I'm gonna a as we gothrough this, notice these are
all logically connected.
If you read any five-pointCalvinist who's worth his salt,
(09:16):
they will tell you that thesefive points all go together or
they all fall apart.
You cannot pick and choose whichones you believe and which ones
you don't, they will say.
Because it's a logical andcoherent system.
And I agree with that.
After twenty something years ofstudying this, I agree that this
is a logical system.
(09:37):
And uh most people who hold tothis um are what I would call
analytical, minded, uh logicallyminded people.
Um it doesn't make it rightbecause I hold to you know,
there's different ideas oflogic.
There's logic.
We know God created logic, it'sit's built into human language,
which God created and he firsttaught us to speak.
(10:00):
So we have no problem with theconcept of there's human logic,
right?
But there's also a meta-logic.
There's a logic that's perfectin who God is, and he's
perfectly logical withinhimself, and everything he does
or writes in the scripture isperfectly logical.
The question is finding out whatis the logic, what it what is
the Bible teaching as a whole?
(10:21):
What how do we put all thepassages together?
It takes a lot of work, right?
But um, so theirs is a logicalsystem, growing out of total
depravity, if you're justentirely dead, you can't respond
to God.
But God chose certain people tobe saved, then limited
atonement, right?
The ones that God chose to besaved are the only ones Christ
(10:42):
died for.
So this is really the point thatI wanted to get to in our study,
right?
But you can see that in thisview, he did not die for each
and every individual.
He only died for those who hechose before the foundation of
the world.
So the atonement that Christoffered in their viewpoint is
not for everybody.
(11:03):
In other words, you could notreally go out onto the streets
of Spokane and say to someone,Christ died for you.
Why?
Because you don't know if Christdied for them.
If that you because you can'ttell if they're elect or not,
they don't have a little signthat says elect or not.
(11:24):
Um and people have joked overthe years, if I knew, you know,
Calvinists themselves have saidif I knew who the non-elect were
elect were, I wouldn't even mindpreaching to them.
Okay.
So again, this one sometimesalso really bothers people
because they're thinking thingslike John 3.16, for God so loved
the world, and they're thinking,how can you say that's not
(11:45):
everybody?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Walls
with Jeremy Thomas.
If you would like to see thevisuals that went along with
today's sermon, you can findthose on Rumble and on YouTube
under Spoke and Bible Church.
That is where Jeremy is thepastor and teacher.
We hope you found today's lessonproductive and useful in growing
(12:07):
closer to God and walking moreobediently with Him.
If you found this podcast to beuseful and helpful, then please
consider rating us in yourfavorite podcast app.
And until next time, we hope youhave a blessed and wonderful
day.
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