Honesty Part II: Integrity and Honesty Without

Episode Transcript
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George B. Thomas (00:03):
I really try to take a beat, take a minute
because I need to understand myintentions. What are my
intentions? Like, beforespeaking, I I like to ask
myself, why do I need to behonest? Is it to help the other
person clear the air? Or am Ijust trying to unburden myself?

(00:23):
Is this a selfish act ofhonesty? Or is it to better the
situation that we're in? Like, Ineed to be sure of my
intentions, and I need to besure that my intentions are
good, and that they're guidingme in a way to deliver my
honesty in a way that'scompassionate versus, like, just
crashing in their brain andcausing chaos.

Liz Moorhead (00:47):
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your
host, Liz Moorehead. And asalways, I'm joined by the best
man there is, at least in myeyes, George b Thomas. How you
doing, buddy?

I'm doing good. How are you doing today,
Liz?

Fantastic. Let's go right into our highlights and
lowlights for the weekend. Sohighlight, I am actually coming
to you live from scenic,cosmopolitan, Wallingford,
Connecticut. Some call it theParis of Connecticut.
Wallingford itself, isn't thatexciting?
No. But I had a really greatweekend seeing a lot of friends.

(01:19):
Had some really good healthydiscussions about honesty, which
makes me excited about today'sconversation. But overall, it
was that perfect blend ofmeaningful time with people. And
then what I like to lovinglycall potato time, which is Liz
time, me time, fill my cup time.

(01:40):
And it felt freaking amazing. Ifelt like I got that perfect
balance. And I always getnervous during weekends when I
travel because so much of it istaken up by, you know, I'm
driving up here and then I'mdriving back. You know, there's
so much back and forth there.But overall, it was just a
freaking fantastic weekend andonly got 1 rage response to this

(02:03):
weekend's newsletter, beyondredefault.comforward/newsletter,
which was from my friend Derek,which is please stop personally
attacking me.
Also, don't stop personallyattacking me. So that's great.
You know, we're growing. We'rethriving by force together. Low
light.
As we're recording this, George,I regret to inform you, it is
the 1st day of the 7th month of2024. The first day, where is

(02:27):
this year going?

Bye bye.

Alright. What are your highlights and lowlights
from the weekend?

My highlight is that our air conditioning
works because we were out for,like, I don't know, 3 or 4 days
of the previous week. I wouldsay because it wasn't, like, hot
as all get out here, I actuallyrearranged my office. So couple
of things about that to make itawesome. I was able to move my
desk to a new location. I didthat so that I could get my

(02:55):
walking treadmill underneath me80% of the time instead of, like
well, let's be honest.
0% of the time. I was also toadd another monitor, which is
cool, but I did this 1 inportrait mode. So now over to
the far right, I can slide Slackand, like, Spotify.

Monitors do you have at this point? Is it just a
wall of monitors like you seeseries?

No. So I've got 2 24 inch Samsung slightly
curved monitors up top. Myteleprompter is actually also an
Elgato, like, monitorteleprompter, so that could be
considered a monitor. And then Ihave, I think it's 32 or 36
inch. I think that's Samsungtoo.

(03:38):
Like No.

Like the Dominic Toretto of, like, home office
hardware.

Yeah. Exactly.

I got 24 inch rim monitors. Like

Yep. It's like so, anyway, the nerd got
nerdier, and I love it because,like, I have everything set how
I want. I've got, like, adifferent desk that people can
come and sit in. So that was thethe highlight. The low light was
when you move equipment around,things start to happen.
2 interesting things happened tome this morning. 1, my walking

(04:05):
treadmill started to make areally weird sound, which I'm
hoping it just means that I needto oil it, hopefully. Otherwise,
it's like, I did all of this tonow have to buy another walking
treadmill, which would suck. Sowe'll see. But then also, we
started to record this, and theaudio was all sorts of kinda
wonky.
But that hey. When you unplugeverything and plug everything

(04:25):
back in, you're just kindapraying that it works the first
time out.

See, that's why when IT is, like, have you tried
turning it off and back onagain? Sir, that that could
create more problems. Are wesure we wanna do that? So this
week, we are having the secondpart of our discussion about
honesty today. Last episode, westarted with a conversation
around self deception andhonesty with them.

(04:50):
This week, it's a bit of a horseof a different color. Right?
This week, we're going the otherdirection. Right? We're talking
about integrity and honestywithout.
So, whether that's in ourpersonal relationships or our
professional relationships. Itold you this before we got on
today. And I mentioned for thosewho listened to last week's
episode, I mentioned thatconversations on recent episodes

(05:14):
had led me to reach out to havea discussion with someone I'm
very close with. To clear theair, let's get honest. Let's
have a truth party.
Everyone's invited.Participation is mandatory.
Let's have a good time. And sowhen I was thinking about
preparation for today's episode,I've gotta be honest, George.
Honesty as a topic.
I think all of us as adults getyou know, being honest and

(05:35):
telling the truth like, this isstuff we teach our kids. Right?
I was surprised coming out ofthis weekend how much more of a
nuanced topic honesty actuallyis. Because I think we want
honesty in our relationships tobe so much more straightforward
than sometimes it actually is.Because I don't think any of us

(05:58):
really wants to admit thatsometimes our relationship with
the truth can be a little softaround the edges, but not
because we're unmitigatedbuttheads and we're liars and
we're, you know, we'reintentionally obfuscating the
truth from people we care about.
But I'm very interested aboutwhere we are going to go into
today's discussion. And I wantour listeners to go into this

(06:19):
conversation today with an openmind because I think 1 of the
things that's gonna be trickyabout this conversation is that
honesty is a much more nuancedtopic than I think we give it
credit for. And I think thereason why we have an aversion
to this topic, particularlywithin ourselves and how we
treat honesty with other peopleis because we're worried what it
says about our character when weare not as honest or acting with

(06:42):
as much integrity as we believewe should be. That's where my
brain is at going into today'sconversation. Before we go into
today's conversation, George,with our first question, I saw
you nodding along.

Yeah. I mean, listen. This is why we had the
first conversation before thisconversation because if you're
lying to yourself, if you'redeceiving yourself, then it
becomes really easy to live alife where you're doing it
externally as well. So youalmost have to take care of the
internal issues first so thatyou can focus on the external

(07:16):
piece next. And here's thething.
This topic and a lot of theother topics that we have talked
about, many of us say the wordsand maybe think about the words,
but don't think about theimplementation, like, from a
very tactical micro strategicstandpoint. And that's what I

(07:37):
love about this podcast is itgives us the opportunity to
actually dive in to these in avery intimate way. So I'm just
agreeing with a lot of whatyou're saying, a lot of what
you're finding and believing.And hopefully, after the first
episode in this episode, we'llhave a lot of the listeners
where they'll be very much thesame of, okay. Yeah.

(07:59):
That was a thing that I need topay attention to more.

I love what you pointed out there that if you
have a flexible or challengedrelationship with honesty within
yourself, without. And that'swhy that phrase exists, right?
As within, so without. Or if Iwant to get more literal or more
visual with what thatrelationship can look like. I
know that my living space tendsto be messier when internally,

(08:24):
psychologically, I feel moreconfused or upset.
Like, my dysfunction in my head,if I don't feel like I have a
good handle on things, willmanifest in my living spaces.
And then it is just a selfperpetuating cycle. Right? I'm
messy in my head, so I'm messyin my life. And I'm messy in my
life, which makes me feelmessier in my head.
And it's just boop, boop. It'slike a little it's a little

(08:44):
horrible tennis match. But let'sstart today's conversation with
talking about George, why thisconversation actually matters.
And I mentioned this at thestart. Right?
We're adults listening to this.We're adults. We know honesty is
important. I bet some of youlistening have kids, and you
talk about why honesty isimportant with them. So do you
really think that this is atopic that warrants an entire

(09:07):
dedicated conversation if it'sthat straightforward?

First of all, Liz, I have to kind of give a
fair warning of my own fortoday's conversation because I
need to dive into some quotesand scriptures to kind of set
the foundation to help emphasizethe important parts of today's
conversation. So along the way,you're gonna hear me, like, just

(09:30):
beep, blop, boop. I'm gonna justdrop these things as far as,
like, quotes and scripture andthoughts to kind of mold them or
meld them together. So with thatout of the way, like, let's have
this conversation of why honestytruly matters. And, again, we
all know honesty is important,and we usually learn this life

(09:50):
lesson early on.
But it's it's easy to miss howmuch it impacts our lives, our
relationships, and ourwell-being. And honesty is the
cornerstone of all successwithout confidence and ability
or the agility to perform shallcease to exist. By the way,
that's a quote piece that I wanteverybody to understand by Mary

(10:10):
k Ash that honesty is thecornerstone of all success, and
without which confidence andability to perform shall cease
to exist. Now you should jotthat down in your notepad
because you need to read thatsucker, like, 2, 3, maybe 4
times and act and let itmarinate in your brain a little
bit. But first, being honestwith others builds trust, and it

(10:32):
strengthens relationships.
And trust is the foundation ofany meaningful connection that
we're ever gonna have, whetherwith friends, family,
colleagues, partners. It justdoesn't matter. Trust is
necessary for relationships,which, by the way, all of us
humans are in to not be shakyand doubtful. You have to have

(10:52):
trust. And I don't know aboutyou, but if you've ever had a
relationship where it's shakyand doubtful, you're like, this
is not where I wanna be or who Iwanna be here with.
And so by focusing on honesty,we kind of build trust and
create a deeper, more reliableconnection to those humans that
we're actually trying to takethis journey on in life. Now

(11:16):
there's a Proverbs that I love,and it's Proverbs 1628. And it
says, a dishonest man spreadsstrife, and a whisperer
separates close friends. Again,1 that you have to probably read
a couple times before it sinksin and you get it, but a
dishonest man spreads strife,and a whisper separates close

(11:38):
friends. Do you wanna be any ofthat?
Well, the opposite of thatobviously is being an honest man
or an honest woman. And whenyou're honest, you invite others
around you to do the same, bythe way. This mutual honesty can
strengthen your relationships,making them more resilient and
meaningful. And again, I don'tknow about you listeners, but if

(11:58):
I'm gonna have a relationshipwith somebody, if I'm gonna take
time to invest myself in them,for them, around them, I I want
there to be some kind ofmeaning. And so sharing your
thoughts and feelings even whenit's uncomfortable can bring you
closer to others.
And this conversation shows howhonesty that we're having today
shows that how honesty canimprove your interactions and

(12:21):
build stronger bonds. So theother thing that comes to mind,
Liz, when I think about honestywith others, is it encourages a
keyword. And I'm trying toremember if you we've actually
done a podcast episode specificto this word, but it's a very
important word, and that'saccountability. It's about
taking responsibility for youractions, owning up to your

(12:43):
mistakes, and actually learningfrom them. And this sense of
accountability is crucial forpersonal life, but definitely
professional life.
And let's just add on this layerof personal and professional
growth. And when you're honest,you hold yourself to a higher
standard. Listen. If you're on ajourney for this life beyond

(13:04):
your default, you're probablygonna have to hold yourself up
to a higher standard in multipledifferent areas that we've
talked about on this podcast,but honesty is definitely 1 of
them. And when you can do this,when you can hold yourself to a
higher standard, I think itleads to greater success and a
keyword here, satisfaction inall the areas of your life.

(13:25):
And what I mean all the areas,let's just start with the
superhuman framework. Like, ifyou're looking at the superhuman
framework and you wanna havesatisfaction and success in all
of those areas, then honesty isa key component. But, you know,
there's even more. Like, honestyalso means bringing truth with
yourself. This conversationencourages us, you, to reflect

(13:48):
on your actions, motivations,and mistakes.
Listeners, I need you to dosomething for me this week. I
need you to sit down for a hot 5to 7 minutes, and I want you to
reflect on your weekly actions,maybe your weekly or monthly
motivations and the mistakesthat you've made along the way,
because it's only when we startto pay attention to those
mistakes can we make changes andstart to live life different.

(14:10):
But this self awareness iscrucial for personal growth, and
that's what we're here for.We're literally trying to grow
to be the best humans we can be.And when you're honest with
yourself, you can identify areasfor improvement and take steps
to become a better version ofyourself.
And like we talked about lastweek, when you're honest with

(14:31):
yourself, it leads into today'sconversation that I kind of
alluded to a little bit ago, andthat is when you take care of
the trash inside, you're notnecessarily depositing so much
trash outside, like, in and out.And so this leads me to a
really, big word that we'llprobably end up talking about

(14:51):
quite a bit in this episode, butit also brings forth 2 really
dope quotes. The first quote isfrom CS Lewis, and it goes,
integrity is doing the rightthing even when no 1 is
watching. And boy, oh, boy.Like, even when no one's
watching, which I live a lifewhere I I feel like there's

(15:13):
always somebody watching, butthere are times when there isn't
anybody watching, and so doingthat right thing no matter what.
The second quote that I'm gonnathrow in here because it's very
like, these pair, they almostfeel the same, but they're from
entirely different humans. Andso the second 1 is from Oprah
Winfrey, which by if you'velistened to this podcast for any

(15:35):
length of time, you know that Ilove me some Oprah Winfrey,
especially her Super SoulSunday, I think, is the name of
the pod oh my gosh. Anyway, ifyou haven't checked that out,
it's super dope. But her quotegoes, real integrity is doing
the right thing knowing thatnobody's going to know whether
you did it or not. Now, see,there's a difference in those 2.

(15:55):
1 is that no one's watching, andthe other 1 is no 1 knowing. And
if you think about watching andknowing and actually doing the
right thing in both situationsand how honesty plays a part in
that, now we start to get intothis level of integrity. Like,
in a world where social mediaoften promotes curated and

(16:19):
sometimes deceptive versions ofreality, like, it's everybody's
freaking highlight. Staying trueto yourself is more important
than ever, because it's realeasy to kinda get sucked in. And
this conversation that we'rehaving today on honesty, I
think, hopefully, it'llencourage you, the listener,
Liz, you, me as well, like allof us, it'll encourage us to

(16:41):
embrace authenticity.
Because by being genuine, like,you can form meaningful
connections and lead a life thatreflects who you truly are.
We've talked about the whole asshuman concept quite a few times
on this podcast, but honesty isa big part of that. It it it
creates or cultivates orgenerates whatever words you

(17:03):
wanna throw in there, thispositive environment. Like, when
you start to layer the thingsthat I'm saying, you end up with
this, like, kind of positiveenvironment where honesty is a
core value. It creates apositive and supportive
atmosphere at home, work, oryour community, the places where
you hang out.
And promoting honesty encouragesothers to act with integrity,

(17:25):
creating a more, I don't know,harmonious maybe, productive
maybe. Again, you can kindainsert the word that you want,
environment. But I'll kind ofsay I'm gonna go into the
scripture, here. I was I wasquestioning myself if I wanted
to go this far into thescriptures, but I wanna hit
here, Liz, Galatians 52223.Because I could have answered

(17:51):
your question with this, by theway.
Because when you think abouthonesty, these other words might
come to mind or might have arelationship. So Galatians
52223, but the fruits of thespirit is love, joy, peace,
forbearance, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness, and
self control. Boy, I can thinkabout how honesty actually has a

(18:15):
lot to do with the fruits of thespirit. Personal fact. Yeah.
And this by the way, these mightbe a really great framework for
how you try to show up and howyou try to be. So, like, listen,
dedicating a conversation tohonesty is not just justified.
It's essential for any of ustrying to live our best life,

(18:36):
and especially for anyone who'strying to live a life beyond
their default state. And sobefore the next question that
you ask me, I want to give 1more scripture. And by the way,
I warned everybody, like, todaywas gonna be a scripture in
court.

Need to stop apologizing for that. You know,
you just need to show up on themic and do what you do because
this is what we do.

This is what we do. So Philippians 48 goes
like this. It says, finally,brothers and sisters, whatever
is true, whatever is noble,whatever is right, whatever is
pure, whatever is lovely,whatever is admirable, if
anything is excellent orpraiseworthy, think about such

(19:17):
things. So when you hear, like,truth and noble and pure, like,
again, these are words thatalign or are part of or I just
go to the yes. Honesty is a bigfreaking conversation.
2 episodes so far. Couldprobably be 2, if not more, but
it's definitely worth taking thetime to have this conversation

(19:39):
so that we, as the host, and youas the listener, can actually
unpack this junk and either say,hey. I'm doing a great job or
go, oh, whoops.

Well, that wrap that wraps up the podcast, guys.
Thanks everybody for listening.I think we had all the high
notes, and we don't have to askeach other any uncomfortable
questions now going forward, dowe, George? Just that's for

good. Is gonna work.

No, it's not gonna work because, you know, let's go
back to episode 42, thesuperhuman framework, which
outlines the 10 pillars forliving a life beyond your
default. 1 of them beinghonesty, which is why we are
here having this discussion. Youtouched upon it there, but then
you just brought it up again ingoing through why this
conversation matters. And thisis where we start to drill in to

(20:21):
trust and credibility inrelationships because you
mentioned that being honest, theit builds trust and credibility
in relationships. But I'd loveto hear from you about a time
when being honest with someonehelped you strengthen your
relationship with them?
Like, what does that actuallylook like in practice?

I hated this question, by the way. But

You always get 1 or 2 that you hate, and that's
fine. Means I'm doing my job.

So, Liz, this is for me, this was a difficult
conversation that I have to havebecause of the question you
asked, but I'm I'm willing toshare it. As people may or may
not have realized by listeningto this podcast, I have 2 sets
of parents. I have 2 moms. Ihave 2 dads. Now that comes with
a whole set of its owndifficulties, but when you move

(21:07):
24 100 miles away from 1 set ofyour parents by the age of 3
years old, there's bound to besome issues that arise.
Now I'm gonna try to transportus back in time for a minute,
but I do want to share with thelisteners that I have a great
relationship with all my parentsright now. So things have worked

(21:30):
out, and we're in a betterplace. But with that said, in an
effort to answer your question,it wasn't always that way. And
so, this has been 10, 12, maybe13, or 14. Wow.
Time flies. Anyway, we'll say 14years ago. It could have been a
little bit longer, a little bitless. Nevertheless, we, my wife

(21:52):
and I, were in Idaho, and we areup in the mountains of Idaho,
and we are having a kind ofspecial service for her father.
Her father had passed away.
And, we are coming off themountain, and all of a sudden,
our phones just started blowingup, her phone, my phone. And
we're like, okay. That's kindacrazy, but it's not crazy

(22:13):
because you don't have cellservice in the mountains of
Idaho. But when you come down towhere, like, normal folks live,
that's cool. So come to find outthat the same time we were
having this service for mywife's father, my grandmother on
my father's side passed away.
Now my father and I have alwayshad difficulty in seeing eye to

(22:36):
eye and believing what was bestfor me when I was growing up. To
be honest with everybodylistening to this, it's because
we are so much alike. Eventhough I lived, like, 24 100
miles away from him for most ofmy life, we are so cut from the
same cloth. We're stubborn.We're bullheaded.
We have our own beliefs. We lovepassionately. We're big teddy

(23:00):
bears, but we love to hide it.We're just very much the same
human. And so, we hadn't talkedfor years.
And come to find out on mygrandma's deathbed, she looked
at my dad and she said, you needto fix it. It's not his fault.
So when I heard my dad say thatmom or grandma said that I

(23:24):
needed to fix it because itwasn't your fault, I immediately
actually was relieved. To behonest with you, I almost felt
like somebody finally saw me,And it was almost like she had
given him the vision she had,but he hadn't received at that
point. And so we had aconversation.
Literally, we met at a bar, satdown to have a couple beers

(23:48):
because we needed to work thisout, and we needed to have a
good relationship movingforward. And so where honesty
comes into play is he said,listen, I just stayed my
distance because I thought itwould be best for you. I thought
you would just be able to behappy where you're at and with
who you were with. And I lookedat him, I mean, and I didn't

(24:08):
skip a beat. I go, that's notwhat I needed and not what I
wanted.
I always wanted you in my life,and I didn't understand why you
didn't wanna be there. And justhaving this moment where we
were, like, raw and honest andjust had, like, this super
cleansing yet dirty conversationof, like, past and future, and

(24:33):
we literally ended theconversation with, let's never
let this happen again. Let'smake sure we always focus on
having a good relationship. Andsince that day, I mean, it's
like any human relationship. Youlaugh, you cry, you struggle
sometimes, but we've always comeback to, like, no.
We're good. We're good becausewe're not where we once were,

(24:54):
and we're not where we once werebecause we are willing to be
honest with each other. I toldyou this is gonna be a hard
conversation. Oh my god.

How does it feel to be honest about it?

It feels good. Again, it's part of my life's
journey that I don't think I'veshared with anybody other than
my wife, and now I've literallyshared it with whoever in the
world that listens to this. Andand I guess what I would say too
is to the listeners, like, ifyou have somebody like that in
your life, then take the firststep. Have the honest

(25:26):
conversation if you can, and tryto put yourself in a good place.
Again, some circumstances,you're not gonna be able to.
But if you can and you want to,then quit making excuses and do
it.

Can we end the podcast here?

We're trying to end this twice now, and we're
not even, like, halfway.

We're I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.
I know. Those conversations arealways such a challenge, And
I've been writing about this abit in our newsletter because
it's it's it's it's where mybrain has been recently is
thinking about this idea of thatfrictional internal moment where
we know what the truth is, butwe're still trying to get
ourselves over the hump ofsaying the quiet part out loud.

(26:07):
And that's usually the mostfriction filled part of the
experience. Because when I thinkabout times where I've had to
have honest conversations withsomebody, man, I would like to
listen to Gilbert Godfried readthe entire bible start to finish
at max volume rather than sayout loud anything that is in my

(26:33):
heart. Like, I don't I don'twanna don't wanna do it.
Yeah. But when I think aboutthose moments where it has been
a payoff, we try to simplify ourlives to a point where we create
complexity. Because we do notwant to confront a truth or
we're worried, well, it's justgonna create more problems and
more headaches than it's worth.Congratulations. You are now

(26:56):
creating the exact headaches,the exact problems that you were
trying to avoid.
I had a conversation with afriend of mine this past
weekend, and I remember at 1point, I said to them, I don't
know if we're the smartest dumbpeople or the dumbest smart
people alive, because we've hadthis 1 problem for years to the
point where the problem has beensomething where it's like, well,

(27:19):
our friendship or whatever, it'sjust always so it's so heavy and
dramatic. So I showed up and Ihad notes. I had props. I had
laid like I was structured. I'mlike, we are, I am not doing
this anymore.
And so I laid it out and Iwalked through. I'm like, so
this is this is 1 part of thechallenge that I'm seeing. I'm

(27:39):
gonna say all the quiet partsout loud. This is the other
part, and this is the thirdpart. And then I looked them
dead in the eye and said, wow.
I wonder why everything feels socomplicated all the time. What
could it possibly be? And thisis a problem that's been going
on for 6 years, George.

6

years, because we kept trying to keep it simple.
Yeah. It was so funny toobecause as I was going through
this, this is where I thinksometimes we get into a
challenge of, yes, that level ofhonesty was so important to us
and it genuinely strengthenedour friendship. Like we came out
of that, like in a much, muchbetter place. I don't think

(28:18):
we've ever been closer.
But at the same time, it wasalmost impossible to have the
conversation to begin with.Because I remember leading up to
that conversation, I was mad ashell. I was mad. There had been
a catalyst moment, where I waslike, I can't. Both of us.
We were just like, we're backhere again. We're back here in
the same spot. We've been justit's been a cycle for years. It
keeps happening and it keepshappening and it keeps

(28:39):
happening. But what was so funnyis that because we had been
dishonest for so long, it tookme forever to figure out what
was actually going on.
It took me a week to even say weneed to talk because I don't
like going to somebody with abig bag of, like, unprocessed,
unproductive emotions and going,hi. I don't know what to do with

(29:00):
these. Now, it's your problem.Like, I hate doing that. And
then, it took me another weekonce they agreed to meet with me
to figure out what I know we'regonna have a conversation, but
what the heck am I actuallygonna say?
And then I had to put mentalmassive amounts of mental brain
power behind, well, what is thisconversation? What is actually
going on? If you spend so muchtime being dishonest with

(29:22):
somebody, you don't think you'rebeing dishonest. You just don't
you you compound and compoundand compound the issue to the
point where it's harder andharder to get out. Every time
you are dishonest in arelationship with somebody,
you're not saying that quietpart out loud.
Imagine every time you make thechoice to keep your mouth shut,
you're taking a step back fromeach other. Yeah. And you're

(29:43):
taking a step back, and you'retaking a step back. And then 1
day, you look up, and they're a1000 miles away. And you have no
idea how you got there.

It's interesting, Liz. As I'm hearing
you kinda talk about this,there's a couple of things. 1,
you said a couple times, we justwanted to keep it simple.

Mhmm.

And when I hear that, what I hear is that
we just decided that we're gonnalie to ourselves and to each
other.

Oh my god. I have to break in here because you
know what I actually pointed outto him? I said, let's pretend
for a moment that our friendshipis a lamp. Apparently, at some
point over the past 6 years, youand I went, let's just tell
everybody it's a pony.

And here's the funny thing, listeners and Liz.
When I think about lies, Ialways kinda think about lies
are like onions. There's layersdeep usually. They stink, and at
the end, they make you cryanyway.

Damn it, George.

Just saying. Next time you go to tell that
little white lie, just you'readding a layer.

Well, that's the funny part, though. It doesn't
feel like lying sometimesbecause what was funny is I
remember having thisconversation and saying, it took
me a while to realize we weretalking about the wrong problem.
We were going circumstance bycircumstance and situation by
situation. We take turns like,this time you were a jackass.
Now it's your turn to apologize.
Now this time, it's my turn toIt's a never ending exhausting

(30:58):
tennis match. It's exhausting.But that's the key there. Right?
If you don't act with honestyfrom the beginning, these issues
compound.
And then it'll get to the pointwhere you don't even realize
you're being dishonest anymorebecause you've lost sight of
what's actually going on. Soquestion for you. Can you talk
to me about a time you know,we're sitting here lofty, like,

(31:21):
just be honest, kittens. That'sit. That's all you need to do.
Check that truth box and you'reready to rock. It's not easy. So
can you talk to me about a timewhen maintaining your integrity
was particularly challenging inhow you navigated it? Oh, you're
already smirking. Okay.

Do you remember? Before we hit the
record button, I told youthere's a question I didn't have
an answer for, but I'd let youknow when we got there. And
Okay. I would let you go firstso I could actually see if it
actually teed anything up. Istared at this question for over
because I'd come back to it,stare at it again, and I'd leave
it.
And I come back, and I'd stareto it again. And I was like, I

(31:58):
don't know how to answer thisquestion. I I don't Why? I don't
know. Nothing, like, immediatelypopped to my brain of this

George, you've never had a time where telling
the truth felt like giving whatyou would imagine birth to feel
like. You you you've never feltthat. You've never felt that
there were times where to saythe quiet part out loud was a
hurdle. It was tough.

I mean, maybe I'm having a hard time
connecting with this question.But the way that you just said
it, I would say, well, probablythe first time I got divorced
because I literally was like,okay. Nobody wants to say it,
but this isn't working, and Ican't stay here. And when I mean
I can't stay here, like, I can'tstay here mentally. I can't stay

(32:41):
here physically.
I can't stay here relationally.I can't stay here. I have to go.
So I said that out loud as mybrother pulled up, and I took
suitcases of clothes and andheaded out. But, yeah, I don't
know.
I just have a hard time withthis question because and maybe
it's because of what we'll talkabout later. So anyway, you go
ahead and then maybe it'll spursomething. So, Liz, I'll ask

(33:04):
you. Have you had an experiencemaintaining your integrity was
particularly challenging? No?

I've talked about this many times on the podcast.
I'm an angel. Yeah. I'm perfect.No.
God, no. In fact, this thiswhole situation, it cosmically
timed. Cosmically timed. I I didnot plan this conversation to be
podcast fodder. It didn't happenthat way.
But the funny thing is is that Ithink we do not realize that

(33:33):
when we are struggling to saythe truth that is in our hearts,
we don't see it as struggling tomaintain our integrity. I think
we view challenges with tellingthe truth and challenges with
maintaining our integrity as 2different things. Right? Because
situational moments where youstruggle to tell the truth are
situational. They'recircumstantial.
You find ways to mentallyarchitect reasons why it is

(33:56):
challenging. Maintaining yourintegrity is something that
sounds more like it's impugningyour character. Right? And we
talked about this in the smallthings episode. How you do small
things is how you do all things.
And I think we need to be verycareful about the judgment we
place on ourselves. And I thinkwe need to be very careful about
the judgment we place onourselves when we find ourselves

(34:17):
in the middle of the messy partsof the very human experience,
where we have to make thosechoices to take a risk, to step
outside of the norms, to saywhat is true. I'll give you a
perfect example. Leading up tothe conversation I had this
weekend, we had been gettingclose to it. And I remember
saying to them, when we startedthe conversation this weekend,

(34:37):
you know, it's so funny.
I'm a little surprised thatwe're here, but I'm not shocked.
In a way, this conversation, Ithink, has been coming for a
really, really long time. We hadbeen coming to a head. And I
remember as part of some of theconversations leading up to it,
I had said exactly why I hadstruggled to tell the truth
before. But I I wrote it inblack and white.
In fact, you know what? See if Ican find it. I said, I knew for

(35:01):
a long time that these werethings I had wanted to bring up.
I've known it for a very, verylong time. However, there has
always been a fragility aboutour connection.
Even though it is also, in avery juxtaposing and almost
contradictory way, incrediblystrong, stronger than almost any
other connection that I have inmy life. But I was so afraid of

(35:24):
me challenging this area of ourconnection would be the final
straw. This would be the thingthat pushed it over the edge
friendship. And also, I didn'tfeel at that point that I was
clear on what it is I was evenupset about. And I didn't feel
at that point that I was clearon what it is I was even upset

(35:45):
about.
I didn't know what to say. Iknew something was wrong. I
could feel it all the time, butI didn't know how to name it,
and I didn't know how to say it.And I was afraid that if I came
to the table with just nebulous,vague feelings with nothing to
actually point to, somethingwould go wrong. That is an
example of time where I made achoice not to say something, and
then I said that out loud.

(36:06):
That I've I've repeatedly madethis choice not to say
something. I've repeatedly donethat. And to me, that is not
telling the truth. Right? Thatis not being honest.
I wasn't maintaining integritywithin the connection until I
finally said that quiet part outloud. Right? And this
conversation that we ended uphaving this weekend was
exceptionally challenging, butwe never fought during it. The

(36:29):
room was completely filled withlots of uncomfortable feelings
and whatever, But it was harderthan I thought it would be, but
mostly it was easier than Ithought it would be. Because
here's the thing, it's not justabout whether or not you're
willing to tell the truth.
If we're talking about 1 to 1relationships, you have to ask
yourself, do you trust therelationship enough to withstand
the truth? And that's usuallywhere most blocks come in.

So I wanna be careful, though, because I don't
want the listeners tonecessarily think that silence
is not being honest.

I agree with that.

It's because there is a season for
everything, and sometimes theseason is just to keep your
mouth shut. Again, like,listening to you, I think
there's a lot of times in mylife where something could have
been said, but it's not that itnecessarily should be said.

I agree with that because I actually said to them
after I said, I'm shocked butnot surprised. I also said I'm
not sure when this conversationcould have happened before now,
but now is the moment because Icompletely agree. I completely
sometimes you are still in afact gathering mode. Sometimes
you're not sure how you feelabout something yet. The you
know, we've talked about this inthe episode of Radical Acts of
Stillness.

(37:42):
Sometimes, the best action is tozip it and to keep quiet.
Completely agree.

What I'll say is, I don't know if there's
anything radically in my brainthat was spurred, but I will
tell you this. There was a timewhere I had a conversation with
a friend of mine. She wasmarried, still is married, and
they were having thisinterestingly difficult
conversation about havinganother child. I believed in my

(38:12):
core that this is what shewanted and that this would
probably be a good thing fortheir family. I just had this
feeling.
I can't even explain it. And itwas a feeling that I couldn't
really shake because I tried to,like, it's not my place. I
shouldn't be having thisconversation with her husband.
They can figure it outthemselves. But when I see that

(38:35):
word integrity and you're askinghow did you keep your integrity,
how did you navigate it, if Iwouldn't have said something, if
I wouldn't have had theconversation, I would have
probably always wondered, shouldhave I said something?
I ended up having a conversationwith her husband, and it was
heated. And it was in front ofwell, maybe not heated. He's

(38:56):
Italian. I brought it up toItalian level. We were, pretty
close to face to face, but weweren't yelling at each other,
but we were passionate.
We'll call it a passionateconversation. And I I basically
was like, in so many words, bro,you need to give her this child.
And the fun thing is they havetheir 3rd child. And the other

(39:17):
little fun thing, we jokinglysay it, but it's not necessarily
exactly why it happened, butthis child also has my middle
name in their naming convention.So

What?

Look. We joke about it, but it's not actually
anyway, when I think about,like, how do you navigate a time
that was difficult and keep yourintegrity during the situation,
like, I knew there was an issue.I had a conversation. I knew I
needed to have anotherconversation. I didn't know what
the outcome because I could'velost both friends forever, or I

(39:51):
could say what I felt I wassupposed to say.
And if it was the right thing inthe right way, then we'd still
be friends, and the chasm thatwas being created in their
relationship would be gone. Sothat's the story I'll share
around this maintaining myintegrity in a particularly
challenging moment in life.

How do you handle situations though where being
completely honest with someonemight hurt their feelings? How
do you balance those momentswhere you wanna be honest, but
you wanna have empathy?

Warning. Warning. These are gonna be
things that I'm consistentlyworking on and many times
consistently failing at.

This is the work in progress section of today's
conversation.

Without a doubt. I mean, I think the older
I get, the better I get at this,but I don't want anybody to
listen to this part of thepodcast and be like, dude's got
his stuff together. I know how Iwanna have my stuff together.
Right? So the first thing thatcomes to mind is I really try to
take a beat, take a minutebecause I need to understand my

(40:53):
intentions.
What are my intentions? Like,before speaking, I like to ask
myself, why do I need to behonest? Is it to help the other
person clear the air, or am Ijust trying to unburden myself?
Is this a selfish act ofhonesty, or is it to better the
situation that we're in? Like, Ineed to be sure of my

(41:15):
intentions, and I need to besure that my intentions are good
and that they're guiding me in away to deliver my honesty in a
way that's compassionate versus,like, just crashing in their
brain and causing chaos.
So understanding my intentionsin even having that conversation
or saying that thing. The otherthing too is I always try to

(41:37):
figure out when I hit that beat,like, am I just supposed to hold
back? There are times when fullhonesty might not be necessarily
helpful.

Are you being honest, or are you just being
hurtful?

If the truth is likely to cause unnecessary
pain without any real benefit,it might be a kinder thing to do
as a human for me to just holdback and find a more gentle way
to address the issue or a bettertime to address the issue and
understanding if they're readyand right. And so, like,
understanding, like, I kindamentioned Ecclesiastes 31.

(42:12):
There's a time for everythingand a season for every activity
under the heavens. Like, is thisthe time or not? And so giving
myself the space for that, like,maybe maybe not now.
Sometimes as honest as you wannabe, Liz, and I mentioned this
earlier, there there is just aseason to keep your mouth shut.

(42:33):
Like, zip it, dude. Just zip itfor right now.

Which part of the which part of the Bible is that?

Ecclesiastes 31.

Yeah. 'Tis the season to zip it.

Yeah. Just season to zip it. The other
thing that I'm very much triedto program myself in life in
this and then so it, therefore,comes along for the ride on this
conversation of honesty is apositive mindset. And so
focusing on the positive whenI'm skipping that beat to kinda
give myself time to think aboutthis. Like, if it's possible, I

(43:03):
try to start with somethingpositive.
Acknowledging what the person isdoing right can make the
conversation feel more balancedand less like an attack. For
example, I appreciate how mucheffort you put into this, and I
have a suggestion that mighthelp even more. Like, if you're
a leader, you've probably heardof the s h space t sandwich. Say

(43:24):
something good. Say theconstructive criticism.

Compliment sandwich. Yeah.

Yeah. The compliment sandwich. I just
called it sandwich. But I try tobe thoughtful with my words.
Like, how do I frame this in away?
Like, I wanna be honest, but Ialso wanna frame it. There's
kind of a communications ninjatip, and that's like I
statements to express feelingsand perspectives, which can help

(43:49):
the other person understandwhere I'm coming from without
feeling attacked. Like, ifyou've ever had a conversation
where it's like, you, you, you,you, you did this, and you made
me feel that way, and why do youalways let instead of, like,
hey. I just want you to knowthis is how I feel and how I
perceived it, but there's adifference. It's a bringing in

(44:09):
versus, like, radicallyextracting outward towards that
human.
And, again, when I'm talkingabout this, I'm literally
talking about, like, thoughtfulwords, and I've mentioned
compassion. You you have to bepatient in this moment. Well,
again, it's something I'm tryingto do. Trying to be. You should
try to be patient andcompassionate.

(44:30):
Understand that the other personmight not need time to process
what I've said or that theymight. You've gotta really
almost have this, like,balancing act of, like, actively
listening and paying attentionto microexpressions. And if I'm
supposed to jump into thisconversation, then I have to
turn everything on high tunefrequency and pay attention

(44:50):
because at any moment, we mightneed to make a right turn or dip
out of this conversation. Theymight initially react
defensively or feel hurt. But ifI'm being honest and we have
gone that far to have theconversation, then I need to
realize, okay.
That's cool. Now I'm gonna bepatient. I'm gonna treat you
with compassion. I'm gonnalisten because I wanna find the

(45:12):
honesty come out of them. I'mvery careful with that though
because the first thing that arebuttal many times feels like a
sword or a shield.
It doesn't necessarily feel likethe actual words of honesty, so
sometimes I have to keepdigging. That's, like, where my
brain goes. And, Liz, I'd becurious of, like, your thoughts,
like, where your brain goeseither on what I said or just

(45:33):
the question in general.

I think it's very romantic notion. You know,
people will say, you know, I'drather you hurt me with the
truth than love me with the lie.You know, there's the whole book
by Kim Scott called, RadicalCandor, which talks about
ruinous empathy, which is youthink you're being empathetic,
but you're actually just ruiningeverything. When I think about
the conversations I've beenhaving recently, and also just
in general, when I think aboutthat balancing act of honesty

(45:55):
versus empathy, I agree withmuch of what you said. There is
a time where, you know and thisis where I sometimes end up in
situations where I end up beingaccidentally, quote, unquote,
dishonest because I'mwithholding feelings, but it's
just because I'm trying tofigure out what it is I'm
actually feeling.
Again, I tend to on the side of,unless I can constructively show
up with my feelings and explainwhat I'm feeling, why I'm

(46:18):
feeling it, and how I got here,and what I'm really looking to
achieve in terms of addressingit, I have a hard time saying
that out loud. And sometimesthat can appear as dishonest.
And actually, that was somefeedback I got this this past
weekend, which is that, youknow, it can sometimes feel
like, oh, am I waiting for theother shoe to drop? And it's
just often, no. You're not.
There's nothing wrong. And sowhat's interesting is finding

(46:39):
that compromise, thatunderstanding of it. Butthead.
I'm being a selfish selfinvolved butthead and it has
nothing to do with you. Thefacts of the situation and my
feelings on the situation arenot even this in the same room.
They are on separate continentsin different countries. And
until I could figure out how toget my feelings back in the same

(46:59):
room as the facts of what hasactually happened, I tend to air
on the side of keeping my mouthshut. That's where I tend to
choose silence and stillnessbecause my feelings aren't
necessarily they're not truthfulin that they're not reflective
what of what is actually goingon. But there is a difference
between feelings that areexplicitly 1 to 1 directive. I
am angry because they did thisthing.

(47:20):
I have every right to be angry.We need to talk about it so we
can rectify it because a wrongwas done. But there are also
those that I consider to be moreinstructive. What is this
feeling trying to tell me aboutwhat is actually happening? Why
am I feeling this feeling?
Right? And this ties into thishonesty versus empathy thing
because I feel it is myresponsibility in my

(47:42):
relationships to be very clearof that distinction. I'll tell
you exactly what I told myfriend this week. And I said, I
knew we needed to have thisconversation because for the
first time in the history offorever, you had brought up
hanging out and wanted toschedule it. And I immediately
went, I don't wanna do that.
Oh. I didn't say it out loud.And I'm like, I have never felt
that way. You are 1 of myfavorite people on this planet.

(48:04):
I go out of my way to spend timewith you.
I go out of my way to make timewith you. And that was the first
time I had ever felt that. Andthen they said, you know, do you
not want to go? I'm like, no, ofcourse I do. Of course I do.
That's why I scheduled it.That's why I never told you.
That's why I didn't say that.And I said, but there's a reason
why I didn't bring it up then.Because immediately I felt,
okay.
You need to calm down, Liz. Youneed to take several seats. You

(48:26):
need to dog ear this feelinglike a spot in a book and come
back to it later when you canactually look at it with a clear
mind. And I said, I realized youhave now reached a point where
this conversation must happen.We have now gone far enough.

(48:47):
That's usually the time I findthe most of where I'm having
that honesty versus empathyfriction, push and pull, is this
idea of, am I even ready to havethis conversation? Because
sometimes those feelings aren'tinstructive. Sometimes I'm just
being a moody little bee.Sometimes I'm being selfish.
Sometimes I'm just having a badday and I'm having a level 15

(49:09):
reaction to something that is,yeah, not great, kind of
annoying, but it's really alevel 4 kind of reality.
Right? And nobody needs to dealwith my level 15 BS.

Right.

If it's a 4, nobody needs that. Nobody needs
that. But then the flip side ofthat is this. That quote is true
for a reason. Hurt me with thetruth.
Don't love me with the lie. 1 ofthe things that was so
clarifying about this weekendwas the realization that 1 of
the reasons why it ended up Isaid it was harder than it was I
thought it would be and it waseasier than I would thought it
would be in a lot of ways. Itwas easier in that It was a

(49:43):
reckoning for me where I had toacknowledge, do I feel safe
enough to tell the truth in thissituation? Because I had a lot
of fears. I had a lot offriction.
I think that's totally normal.Right? I gotta say the quiet
part out loud. Like, it's akidney stone. We're go we gotta
do it.
We don't we don't wanna becausewe have natural fears. Our
brains are programmed to keep ussafe. But there was a part of it

(50:04):
that was easy. Because when Ishowed up to the conversation, I
felt like I knew that this wasworth fighting for. I knew that
out of any connection I have inmy life, this is 1 where, like,
I feel the most psychologicallysafe.
Right? And so it was worthhaving that discussion for me.
But then, if I'm taking it evena step further, I didn't have a
choice. You have to. I mean, atsome point it's a get off the

(50:26):
pot situation.
At some point, empathy, I don'tknow. Maybe it's just not even
part of the conversation. It's amatter of, are you showing up to
that conversation making it ayou versus them issue? Or are
you showing up to theconversation saying this is us
putting our brains together tosolve a joint problem? And I
think that's when I can startpulling empathy out of it
because it's less of a personalattack.

(50:48):
It's not about this is you andwhat's wrong and, you know, it's
about, hey, we have manifestedthis idiotic stupid chaos circus
together like a family. Can wefix it, please?

It's interesting. I I love a lot of
what you shared. The only thingthat, like, my brain immediately
jumped or wanted to jump atsomething you said is our brains
are programmed to keep us safe.I hope the listeners, especially
of this podcast, realize yourbrain is reprogrammable. And
that's what we're talking abouton this podcast in many episodes

(51:23):
is where should you program itto go in the direction that you
need it to go, whether it bearound honesty or any of the
other topics that we've gonethrough.
I would want the listeners toactually give themselves, you
know, 10, 15 minutes, 30 minutesafter listening to this episode
and say, how and where in mylife do I need to reprogram my

(51:45):
brain? And by the way, you mightwanna listen to the first
episode and this episode, thenyou give yourself 15 minutes, 30
minutes, heck, maybe an hour,and be like, where do I need to
reprogram my brain on thisconversation of internal and
external honesty?

I love that, and I completely agree. And this is
also something I wrote about inour newsletter many weeks ago,
where I talk about thedifference between listening to
your intuition and listeningyour brain. Because your brain
is big flash fleshy paperweightin your skull that is programmed
at an instinctual level to keepyou from getting eaten by
dinosaurs as cavemen. We have asurvival instinct. It is strong.

(52:22):
It is and it is good. I'd liketo think of it though as a CEO
versus COO situation. Yourintuition, your inner cupcake,
your voice of God, your whateverit is that you call it is often
where you are going to find yourdeepest knowing. What it is you
really want, what it is youreally don't want, what's your
purpose, what lights you up,that full body feeling that we
are referring to when somethingis either a full body yes or a

(52:45):
full body no. That is your CEO.
That sets the vision for thecompany that is your body and
your life. Of course, CEOs arebig visionary people. They need
a COO to go. So this is how wemake practical. This is how we
make it achievable.
Here are the spreadsheets. Hereare the teams. Here are the

(53:05):
operations and theinfrastructure that needs to be
stood up. I'm gonna ask you acouple of tough questions, but
you have the abilities, the CEO,to override. Your brain is your
COO.
You see it and that's good.Right? You need a COO because
it's going to enable you to takethat big picture pie in the sky
vision and make it real.Otherwise, you're just going to
be wishing forever do, you don'twant that. But this is why there

(53:27):
has to be a balancing act.
The COO isn't just there tochallenge your vision to make
sure it is sound and it isachievable. It is also incumbent
upon you as the CEO of your ownlife with your inner cupcake to
push back and say, this is whatwe're doing. We don't have the
iPhone because Steve Jobs playednice. So those are my feelings

(53:49):
on intuition.

Love it.

I want to wrap up today's conversation by and and
this is where listeners, you mayhear me every week. So what
advice do you have? And this iswhere I start frantically taking
notes. So I recommend you do thesame. What advice would you give
someone, air quotes, whostruggles with being honest in
their personal and professionallife for whatever reason?
And how can they develop greaterintegrity in their interactions?

So and this is again 1 of those interesting
conversations, but learning frommistakes that you make, which,
by the way, I there's a wholeconversation about failing
versus, like, lessons, and I'mnot talking about failing. I'm
like, we all make mistakes, butlearning from mistakes is key to
developing integrity. It'simportant to acknowledge that

(54:35):
things happened, to apologizewhen you catch yourself being
dishonest, which by the way,I've had those days where I
started to tell a lie andliterally was like, hold up.

I don't know why I said that. That's just a

bunch of bullshit. Here's the actual
truth, which by the way, whenyou do that to somebody, they're
like, wow. Okay. And I'veliterally had those moments
where I'm like, I don't know whyI started to say that because
that's not the way I feel orthat's not actually what
happened. This idea of kind ofowning up to your mistakes, it
shows accountability andcommitment to honesty.

(55:11):
And so, like, again, if youthink about that, it's learn
from the mistakes, but own up toyour mistakes. The other thing
is we talk a lot aboutreflection in different episodes
of this podcast, but taking thetime to reflect on what led to
the dishonesty and think abouthow you can handle similar
situations better in the future.Because by the way, if you're

(55:34):
prone to do 1 thing here, you'reprobably prone to do that thing
there. I'm giving a pause sothat can sink in, ladies and
gentlemen. If you've done itonce, you'll probably do it
again because it becomes ahabit.
It was the easy way to get outof that conversation. It was the
easy thing to say versus thething that needed to be said. So

(55:54):
reflect on what led to thedishonesty and think about how
you can use that as a road mapto treat it or do it better in
the future. Because I think thisprocess will help you grow and
strengthen your resolve tomaintain this level of integrity
that you wanna keep as you're onthis, like, journey beyond your
default. Mark Twain, by the way,had a great quote.

(56:17):
If you tell the truth, you don'thave to remember anything. I'm
like, oh, dude, that is sofreaking true, which again goes
back to my onions. Right? Ifthere's no layers, then you
don't have to remember whatyou're actually cutting through
to get to the right 1 to havethe conversation. But, again, if
you tell the truth, you don'thave to remember anything, Mark
Twain.

(56:37):
When communicating with otherhumans, as much as you can where
it makes sense, be specific anddirect. The other thing that we
do a lot of that we need toavoid is vague statements. Why
do we find it so hard to beclear about what you're being
honest about? Man up. Woman up.
Put your big girl or big boypants on and, like, have a human

(56:58):
conversation. When you can beand I know I'm making it sound
easier than maybe it isdependent upon the situation
you're in. But when you'respecific and direct, this helps
others understand yourperspective immediately and
reduces probably 1 of thebiggest potholes in human
communication and relationships,and that's just general
misunderstandings. Like, youwere vague, so they

(57:20):
misunderstood you, and so nowthey're pissed. Well, that's not
really what I meant, but that'swhat you said.
Well, but that's not what Imeant, but that's what you said.
And so begins the game ofvolleyball. The other piece of
this is there is a differencebetween listening, and I'll give
the analogy of, like, if you'rea husband and a wife scenario
and you're listening and youhear Charlie Brown's teacher,

(57:45):
that is not listening. That'shearing noise. What we should be
focusing on more and more as wetry to, like, really hone into
this honesty integrity thing ispractice active listening, like
being in the moment, showingpeople that you value them and
you value their perspectives andgiving it the time that is due.

(58:07):
Liz, you literally have seen medo this. Tons of people that I
hang out with have seen me dothis. I'll purposely flip my
phone over, screen down, so thatI don't see anything, that
there's nothing getting in theway, that I can actively listen.
And also be warned, if you everhang out with me in the future
and I flip my phone over, notonly actively listening, but I'm

(58:29):
looking at micro expressions onyour face as you're talking to
me because I am truly trying tounderstand the perspective and
the and the vocabulary and thestory that you're trying to get
to me so that I can actuallyunderstand it. Because what I
want us to do, what I'm tryingto do is, like, if you actively

(58:49):
listen, it builds this mutualrespect.
It builds this roadway forhonest communication, which can,
instead of just being a 1 waylane is a 2 way highway then if
you go into this. When you dothese things, when you're trying
to internally and externallyfoster a culture of this word
that we're talking about,integrity and honesty, it

(59:12):
involves this layer ofunderstanding that listeners
Layers. George, we have to leadby example. We have to encourage
open dialogue. We have to modelthe behavior that we want to see
in both personal andprofessional settings, which by
the way, this too goes back tothe human framework and the

(59:35):
story that I told about happy,helpful, humble human and the
fact that that I was modelingand saying how I wanted others
to show up.
Well, you can do the same thingwith honesty and integrity.
Like, you encourage those opendialogues. You model the
behavior. You lead the way tobuild this culture of integrity

(59:55):
and honesty of those around youin your life. And when others
see you prioritize honesty,birds of a feather flock
together.
They're more likely to do thesame. So in our life, as humans,
as leaders, as however you'reshowing up, we have to create an
environment where open andhonest communication is
encouraged and valued becausethis and this is a superpower.

(01:00:19):
This reduces fear, which, Liz,you talked about multiple times.
I was afraid this relationshipcouldn't handle it. This reduces
fear, and it cultivates aculture that you wanna be in
that is integrity based anddriven by honest conversation.
Titus 27, by the way, because,you know, I can. And Liz said

(01:00:40):
just show up and be you. Ineverything, set them an example
by doing what is good. In yourteaching, show integrity,
seriousness. And so ineverything, set them an example.
By the way, today, we're talkingabout honesty, but all of these
podcast episodes, I could haveput this Titus 27 in there. In

(01:01:02):
everything, set them an exampleby doing what is good.
Developing greater integrity isa journey that requires self
reflection. Are you doing that?Practice.
Are you doing that? And by theway, support. Do you have that?
Like, who is your supportpartner on this honesty train
that you're trying to actuallyride through life? You can

(01:01:25):
become more honest andtrustworthy by taking small
steps.
Again, ties into my 1% bettereach and every day methodology.
Improving your communicationskills and building, again, a
supportive environment where nowyou don't feel like you're a
lone person on a lone island,but there's somebody coming
along on this road with you,these rails with you that you

(01:01:48):
can actually have as support.Proverbs 109, whoever walks in
integrity walks securely, butwhoever takes crooked paths will
be found out. I'm a let that 1set in for a second. Whoever
walks in integrity walkssecurely, but whoever takes
crooked paths will be found out.
By the way, when I think aboutthis 1, I think that you could

(01:02:11):
maybe go to beyond yourdefault.com and go check out the
episode we did on impostorsyndrome. Because I know me,
especially when it comes totoday's topic, honesty, I wanna
walk securely. Heck, in a lot ofthe topics we talk about, I'd
much rather walk securely versusalways being nervous or anxious
about this idea of being foundout. So as we kind of wind this

(01:02:34):
bad boy down, remember the goalis progress, not perfection.
Every step you take towards,greater honesty is gonna
strengthen your character andbuild a foundation for, more
authentic and meaningfulrelationships that you'll be
building along this journey of alife beyond your default.

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