Nurturing Your Soul, Spirituality, + 'Holiness' for All Belief Structures

Episode Transcript
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George B. Thomas (00:02):
It's a journey within. Listen. Here's what's
funny to me. When we examine thedifferent ways people approach
holiness, whether through thereligious examples that I've
talked about or otherphilosophies, we see a lot of
common ground. 1st, living anethical life is a big deal for
everyone.
Even Ralph Waldo Emerson said,the purpose of life is not to be

(00:26):
happy. It's to be useful, to behonorable, to be compassionate,
to have it make some differencethat you've lived and lived
well. I mean, that's probably anundertone of every beyond your
default podcast episode we'veever done. Whether it's
following religious commandmentsor sticking to personal values,

(00:47):
making good and just choicesseems to be key for us humans
around this kind of idea orconversation. Compassion and
kindness also shine throughacross the board, whether you're
looking at religious anddifferent religions or the non
religious side of this.

Liz Moorehead (01:06):
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your
host, Liz Morehead. And asalways, I'm joined by one of my
favorite humans in the wholewide world, George b Thomas.
Good morning.

Good morning. How are you doing this morning?
You're one of my favorite humansas well. There's a probably like
a tear somewhere. I'm not gonnaget into that, but I'm glad that
you're here.
I'm glad that we're doing this.It is an exciting Monday
morning.

I love the way you phrase that. Liz, you are in
the top of ESPN power rankings.Now where you're actually
ranked, let's not get into it.Yeah. And that's fine
considering you have your wholefamily and a bunch of other
people.
You know what? Happy to benominated.

There's a lot of humans in the circle.

Absolutely. So let's kick things off, right,
the way we always do. Talk to meabout your highlight and your
low light of the weekend.

So it's funny because I was trying to think of
a low light. I'm like, geez.Like, I don't know if I have a
low light, which isn't a badthing. I worked a little bit on
the weekend. That could beconsidered a low light for some
folks, but, like, nobody passedaway.
There were no large arguments.There was nothing I was really

(02:13):
beating myself up over. Iactually even took time to work
on my inbound 24 talk draft thatwas due a week ago, but I took
time to I mean, you know

Art takes time. Yeah. So it Was somebody rushing
Picasso?

No. Come on now. Come on, seriously. But
we're getting that in a goodplace. So I don't know, as far
as a low light.
Now highlight highlight wassuper easy for me. This week, I
actually have multiple, but I'mgonna pick 1. I know that's
amazing, Liz, for me just topick 1, but I'm gonna pick 1. My
wife and I went to a concert,and it was Styx and Foreigner

(02:52):
and some other guy. I can'tremember his name, but I knew
his music.
Like, as soon as he sang acouple songs, I'm like, oh, oh,
oh, I I know that one. Okay.It's funny. The concert actually
isn't the highlight. Like,spending time with my wife is
amazing because it was just herand I, which is very unique.
Usually, there's children orthere's friends, but it was just
my wife and I. And so that couldeasily have been the highlight.

(03:15):
Being at a concert could havebeen the highlight, but there
was this one dude there. Andwhen we sat down behind him, he
turned around and and he warnedus. He goes, hey.
Just so you know, you might notwanna sit behind me. I stand up.
And we're like, oh, that's okay.You can stand up. Like, we
usually look at the screenanyway, because we're, like, in
lawn seats, and you can see thestage, but there's a big screen

(03:37):
you can watch.
We're like, cool. And I am Iimmediately was like, well,
that's cool that he, like, justdid that in general, like, was a
good human. He looked like hewas right out of, like, the
eighties rock band. Like, he hadthis long, kinda reddish blonde
hair, but seemed really down toearth. And, Liz, the music
started, and he stood up, and heknew every word.

(03:59):
And he had these hand gestures,and he was banging his head. And
I immediately was like, nowthat, ladies and gentlemen, is
true freedom. And I sat thereand I watched him, like, I'm
supposed to be sitting therewatching the concert, but I was
torn from watching the concertto watching this guy just with
every ounce of his core beingenjoying who he was and what he

(04:24):
was doing and where he was at.Even leaned over to my wife and
I go, that dude is making mehappy right now. Now, Liz,
here's what's funny.
After about the 4th or 5th song,these 3 girls and when I say
girls, by the way, this is anolder crowd. Like, we were all
older. Like, these are, like,people from the eighties, the

(04:44):
seventies. Like, we're listeningto Foreigner and Styx. Okay?
But these ladies come over,these 3 ladies, and they just
wanna get a picture with them.And so I watched that happen.
And then it's, like, 4 or 5songs later, and these 2 dudes
run up, and they start headbanging with him. And I lean
over to my wife and I go, girlswant photos of him, and guys

(05:06):
just wanna be him. I'm like,look at this dude's energy.
And, like, it was infectious.And so for me, like, just seeing
that in a human, in thousands ofother humans, and and that was
the one place that we chose tosit. And I was able to
experience that and just see,like, the ripples that he was

(05:26):
making just by being him. Thatwas my highlight for sure.

You know, you texted me a photo of him while
you or a video of him while youwere at that concert. And I
remember just thinking, like,man, if we had more hymns in
this world, world would probablybe a better place.

Yes.

And what I love about that whole scenario is
that that two things had tooccur. Right? You had to have a
person show up who was just wetalk about being a whole ass
human. He is his whole ass selfunapologetically, and he's doing
it from a place of joy. He'sdoing it from a place of pure
happiness.
And then he was also in acircumstance where the people
around him were celebratingthat. And often people can be

(06:09):
too cool for school or we seepeople like that. We're like,
tone it down, buddy, in thiseconomy. You know? But it's just
it was so refreshing to seethat.
To just how often do we allowourselves to be happy and how
often do we set the conditionsother people to experience the
pure joy and happiness that theyare entitled to as part of the
human experience?

And I I love the idea of freedom. I love the
idea of joy. And what's fun isyou're right. In the whole
situation, I saw more smiles andpeople wanting to engage than,
like, the usual judgment. It wasjust so good.

That's amazing. You know what? I'm very similar
to you with low light. I'malmost thinking we should retire
the low light, and maybe it justbecomes highlight of the
weekend. I don't know.

Careful. As soon as we do that, like, some
real low stuff will start tohappen.

You know what? I'm finding a low light. You
know, by the time I get to thehold on. Let me see.

It made me nervous, by the way. Me not
having one, I'm like, oh, Idon't need one.

I got one. I got one. You ever get irrationally
cranky about things? Like,rationally cranky, a rationally
boujee cranky. Like

I mean, I know in man. So

This is so actively dumb, but I'm not
tempting the low light gods,particularly in light of today's
topic. I am not tempting them.Facts. I went to 3 different
grocery stores this weekend tofind one flavor of the most
popular type of kombucha, and itwas sold out everywhere. And
I've just I have to drink guava.
Now do I understand am I thewhitest of white women who

(07:37):
shopped at Whole Foods thisweekend right now? I am. I am.
So this is the low light. Notonly do I not have what I want,
I am a stereotype right now.
I am a stereotype. I'm one cataway from being a divorced,
cliche, kombucha swirling, whereis it in my Whole Foods type of
woman. So we're just gonna moveon. See? Okay.

(07:59):
Low lights got satisfied. My lowor my highlights. I I'm gonna
break my own rule. I'm gonnagive you 2. First one's really
quick.
I didn't see anybody thisweekend. I didn't see anyone. I
had a Liz weekend.

That's not a bad weekend.

I spent the weekend running errands, going
to the gym, reading some newCarl Sagan books I just got,
took myself out to dinner lastnight while there was this
gorgeous heavy rainstormhappening outside. It was just
so nice. I loved it. I loved itso much. But my actual highlight
comes frombeyondredelitfault.comforward/newsletter.

(08:33):
So the weekend edition went out.

Yes. It did. Thanks for the personal attack.

Really? Because that's exactly, like Go ahead.
Cricket gets to that in just asecond. I had a friend of mine
reach out and he said, wow. Wayto make a personal attack more
palatable with science lessonsabout how galaxies are formed.
What is wrong with you? I'mtaking it as a highlight.

I'll double click on that.

So let's get into that for a second because this
issue is all about polarity,opposites, and contradictions.
And the fact that the thingsthat we seek often lie at the
intersection of those. Right?Because galaxies, and this is
what I was teaching in thenewsletter, right, galaxies are
only possible through theviolent union of 2 opposing
forces, baryonic matter, whichis normal matter, stars, space

(09:19):
goo, all that stuff, and darkmatter, which you can't see. But
the gravitational pull of it iswhat makes all galaxies come
together.
But I personally attacked you,George. Please go on.

So you gotta remember that which, by the way,
you cheated, so I'll cheat. Ihave an extra highlight too. I
also did 15,000 steps before8:30 this morning. So, anyway,
there's that.

Was that you working through the existential
crisis?

Working through the crisis as I was
reading the newsletter. So firstof all, you have to realize I'm
a nerd. Right? So as soon as youstart talking about 2 forces and
gravity and force and frictionand pull, I immediately go to
Star Wars and the dark side.And, man, did it just make me
and, especially, I think it wason the back of, like, working on
what we are gonna talk abouttoday.

(10:00):
It just really made me focus inon this journey that I've had
of, like, battling to be on thegood side of the force, but
knowing that there is, like, aDarth Maul or, you know, a Sith
Lord that looms with inside methat I, like, keep at bay on a
daily basis. And so there wasjust this, like, internal

(10:22):
understanding of good and evilthat, like, we all deal with in
our own ways, but you arebeautifully painting it with
freaking stars and crap. And I'mlike, yeah. That's not really
what she's talking about. Imean, that's what she's talking
about, but that's not what she'stalking about.
It just easily led into, if youlet it, the inner workings of

(10:43):
your mind, your soul, yourspirit, and this, like, just
journey that we're all on withtrying to be our best selves
that we can be. Is the podcastover yet?

No. In fact, are you ready?

I guess.

We have been circling the drain on this topic
for months. Yeah. It's a topicthat is deeply important to you.
And it is also a topic wow.Okay.
So ladies and gentlemen, youcannot see this.

I'm watching George.

He's doing some stress stretches right now. He's
slapping his hands because thisis a topic that also makes you
feel wildly uncomfortable whenyou're trying to discuss it on
this podcast.

I've been on both sides of the fence, but

When I sent you the outline, I explicitly said,
I'm curious to hear yourthoughts. And you know what I
heard? Crickets. I heardnothing. Like, oh, he's gone to
his brain oven.
He's gonna be baking for alittle while.

Yeah. Sometimes you gotta go to your
cave.

I know. I'm like, is your silence a cry for help?
We're just gonna let it ride.I'm just glad you showed up to
the mic this morning becausethis week

Yeah.

We're talking about soul work. We're talking
about spirituality and what youcall holiness if some of you may
recall from our superhumanframework episode of our Beyond
Your Default journeys. So Iwanna be very clear. I wanna set
the stage here. Do not flip thatstation.
Do not turn that dial if you donot consider yourself religious.

Yeah. Please. Please.

We are not here to preach. We have zero desire
to convert. In fact, parts ofour conversations today,
critical parts of ourconversations are around this
idea of soul work in agnostic orsecular contexts.

Yeah.

Because soul work nourishing ourselves as humans
man, being on this podcastinstead of hub heroes, it's very
confusing when we don't havethat reverb.

I know. Right?

But, like, nourishing ourselves as part of
the human experience. Who weare, what our purpose is in this
world. These are importantconcepts and there are different
labels for them, which is whywe're talking about soul,
spirituality, holiness. Andwe're gonna be talking about a
bunch of different things. Thisidea is we are contextualizing,
nurturing ourselves, our soulsfrom within, no matter what we

(12:51):
do or do not believe.
I don't care if you areworshiping at the altar of the
church of Adam and Eve or thechurch of Adams under a
microscope. I really don't care.This conversation is for you.
But, George, you know what thefirst question is because it
took up, like, a paragraph.

It did. It was the longest question known to
man.

Because I wasn't gonna let you get away with it.
There is no squareliness here,my friend.

How do you create a question that is also a
fence? Oh, this is how you doit.

I do it very carefully. It's one of my great
superpowers. Over the course ofthis podcast, George, you've
made no secret of your faith.Yeah. How it informs your
decision making, your moralcompass, how you move through
through this world.
And at the same time, you'vealso consciously and explicitly
stated discomfort on multipleoccasions when you've brought it

(13:39):
up. Like, you'll talk about yourfaith, you'll bring up
scriptures from the Bible, andyou're already apologizing
before it gets out of yourmouth. Or you're you're doing a
lot of verbal scaffolding aroundit. And yet, here we are having
this conversation dedicated tothe idea of holiness. And the
fact that you consider it to bea critical pillar of this
superhuman framework.
The blueprint we should use tolive a life beyond our defaults.

(14:02):
Right? But I wanna know how youfeel about that today. Talk me
through this contradiction, apassion for this topic, and your
concerns around discussing it.Because clearly, it's important
enough for us to move throughthis discomfort together because
I too have some heartburn.

Here's the thing. There's a scripture.
Therefore, whoever takes thelowly position of this child is
the greatest in the kingdom ofheaven. And whoever welcomes 1,
such child in my name welcomesme. Here's the important part.
If anyone causes one of theselittle ones, those who believe
in me to stumble, it would bebetter for them to have a large

(14:39):
millstone hung around their neckand to be drowned in the depths
of the sea. That's Matthew 18:6.Listen. I have been on both
sides of the fence, when itcomes to this conversation of
religion. I have probably amaybe weird perspective around

(14:59):
spirituality versus religion,which then leans into what I
would consider holiness.
And so many times we have thisconversation, it's like one
mind, one perspective onlyeducated on this individual path
that you've been on. Listen.What I'm trying to say is this

(15:20):
conversation is complicated,ladies and gentlemen, because my
relationship with this topic hasbeen a bumpy road filled with
twists and turns and hills andreally deep valleys. And listen.
When I was younger, I wouldtravel from Montana to Ohio to
visit my grandparents on mymom's side.

(15:42):
And while we were there, weattended church, but I I didn't
get it. Like, I just I didn'treally understand it. And the
life that I lived, you know,many of you have heard stories
of, like, the 1 room log cabinand the 1 room schoolhouse and
riding my pony to school, likebut I didn't start going to
organized church in any type ofconsistent manner until I was

(16:06):
14. Teen. And we moved toCardwell, Montana, and I met
Doug and Arceal Shaw, who wereour neighbors, but also our
landlords who started to take meto church.
And it was like, I went fromnever going to going on Sunday
mornings, Sunday nights, andWednesday nights. Right? So at
14, I was, like, what some mightcall, like, on fire and trying

(16:27):
to digest as much information asI could. I was in the navy by
17a half. So do the math.
That's 3a half years of havingthis, like, ability to have a
growth or hotbed. But at 17ahalf, I was in the navy as a
high school dropout. Now let'sjust say the navy wasn't the
best breeding ground for a lifefocused on being religious or

(16:48):
spiritual, at least not for meat such a young age, or even
I'll add in the mindset that Iwas in as going into the Navy as
a high school dropout. By 20, Iwas working at Faith Ranch
partly to avoid being homelessand because I felt my first
calling into the ministry, or atleast I thought that was what
would happen next, although itwasn't. I literally went from

(17:11):
three and a half years againworking at a Christian camp
teaching kids about Jesus toselling furniture in Cleveland,
Ohio.
So that wasn't the plan that Ithought we were gonna go along.
Along this spiritual journey,I've studied Catholicism,
Judaism, Buddhism, and severalother, like, world religions. By

(17:31):
24, I thought Christians werethe most hypocritical people I
knew on the planet. By 27, I wasgoing to school to be a freaking
pastor. And by 30, I was a youthpastor and then an associate
pastor at a church in Ohio.
By 32a half, guess what? I nolonger worked at the church.
Why? Because we lost what theysaid, and it makes me sick to

(17:54):
even say this. We lost 12 givingunits.
So they couldn't afford to payan associate slash youth pastor
anymore. By the way, 12 givingunits. In other words, we lost
12 families, humans. They leftthe church due to a
restructuring of, like,constitution versus covenant,
like, over political churchcrap. What the actual heck?

(18:17):
But, like, if I look at this andI try to sum it up, I'm the only
guy that I know. There might besomebody else out there, by the
way. But I'm the only guy that Iknow who has gone from bouncer
at a bar to pastor at a church.Like, the entire journey has
taught me a few key things. Soso my hopes for this podcast
episode are that I can vocalizethose things and help those who

(18:42):
have also had maybe a bumpy roador maybe a nonexistent road with
this thought around, and we'reusing the word holiness, many
use the word religion.
Sometimes we even lean intospirituality. But I have to be
perfectly clear, and you kind ofalluded to this at the
beginning, Liz. Listeners andLiz, because you have to go

(19:05):
through this with them as well.What I'm not trying to do is
wield a religious 2 by 4 over myshoulder and beat you into
submission or make you feelguilty for who you are or where
you're at in your spiritualjourney right now. Like, that is
not even close to the goal ofthe conversation that we're
having today.

(19:26):
That's where my brain is. Liz,what about you in today's
episode? Like, where's yourbrain at? Where are you hoping
we get to? Talk me through that.

I remember when I saw holiness tucked in very
modestly toward the back quarterof the list of the pillars of
the superhuman framework.

I just kinda slipped it right in there.

I remember being really happy about it. And I'll
admit, I have had a complicated,complicated relationship with
religion throughout my life. Iwas raised primarily by my
mother's side of the family. SoI grew up Catholic. I think a
lot of people who come from theCatholic faith, we have a we
have a lot of complicatedfeelings about it.
But I will say even in mymoments where and there were

(20:08):
many of them and they were quiteprotracted, where I had stepped
away from faith where I had feltabandoned, I would still go back
because I lost many people in mymother's side of the family when
I was younger just because myparents had me when they were
older. Like, I was very closewith my grandfather, for
example. And every Sunday, Iwent to mass with him. I was

(20:29):
like 6 or 7, 8 and 9 title Ididn't get to go to Sunday
school. No.
I sat with him through fullmass. Right? Which at the time,
I'm like, this is this is great.This is awesome. But I remember
periodically I would just goback because it was a way for me
to reconnect with a familialtradition.
It would help me feel closer topeople whom I had lost. But the

(20:51):
reason why I was so happy to seethis discussion is that when I
look back over my 40 some yearson this earth, I've never gone
full atheist. And again, I havevery similar goals to you. We
came into this episode veryaligned. Right?
Like, this is for all believersand non believers because even

(21:11):
that is a belief system that issacred and should be cherished.
Yeah. Right? We are all entitledto our own belief structures and
how we view the world. But overthe past 40 some years, I have
gone through a wide range ofbelief structures.
But when I look thematically,I've seen the importance of
whether it was a monotheisticway of looking at the world,

(21:34):
something a little bit morebroad, more spiritual, more
universal. This idea ofnourishing my soul and
showcasing get through verychallenging periods. Whether I
was doing it consciously or Isee in hindsight, this was

(21:58):
something that I needed to do.Because, you know, I moved out
on my own when I was 19. I washomeless.
I've gone through a lot of painand things in my life. They are
things that I've talked about onthis podcast. There are a lot of
things I haven't talked about onthis podcast, but, George, you
and I have had personalconversations

about them.

And they are things I get really kinda
squirrelly talking about becauseI don't want to be defined by
that. It's weird. And on the onehand, I would actually I've
gotten to the point now whereI'm I wouldn't trade my life for
anything. Not a single moment.Not a single pain.
Because it means that I'm onlyhere able to have these
conversations doing this workthat we are clearly meant to be
doing because of that path thatI walked. Yeah. And at the same

(22:37):
time, I only got through thosethings because for some reason,
I just kinda never gave up on aconcept of a greater good. No
matter how agnostic or secularor spiritual I perceived it to
be based on where I was in mylife story. But like you, I'm
the same.
I had I've had a fear ofjudgment going into this

(22:58):
conversation. Will people thinkof me differently? Will people
look at me differently? And Ijust I'm kinda tired of that.
You know?
We talk a lot about being ourwhole ass selves. I preach and
constantly work every single dayfor people to show up as their
whole ass selves and this is apiece of myself that I tend to
pull back Yep. Because I'mworried about how I might be
perceived. But I think thisconversation is so important

(23:20):
because it solves a criticalproblem that we have on this
beyond your default journey, Andthat is not losing the concept
of the self and where we fitinto the greater narrative of
what we exist within, whetherthat's the universe, God's plan,
or something else.

It's funny because I wonder how much of it
truly is worried about howyou'll be perceived. And I I
think there's a little bit ofthat. But this is literally why
I started with the firstscripture that I threw out there
is that for me, yeah, there'smaybe a little bit of how I
perceive, Jesus lover orwhatever they wanna throw out
there or, oh, he's close minded.He'll never, you know, embrace

(23:57):
us because we don't believe thatstructure. Bullcrap.
More for me, one of my biggestfears, and I don't fear a lot,
is that I would actually be thestumbling block to somebody's
spiritual journey. And so, like,sometimes I I think I use less
of a megaphone and less of a 2by 4 because I'm trying to have

(24:19):
this more Johnny apple seed,plant some seeds along the way
as I go quietly and just see ifthey'll grow on their own versus
like, listen. Let's go back tothe concert I just went to.
There was a dude with amegaphone talking about how
going to foreigner and sticksmeant you're going to hell. And

(24:40):
I was like, in what universedoes this make sense for you to
be out here?
I have been a pastor. I am oneof maybe the most spiritual
human beings that I can be, andI know going to this concert.
I'm not going to hell, And Idon't wanna be that kind of
spiritual leader or mentor orbecause, again, for me, it's not

(25:03):
about the specific religion.It's about what we're
cultivating in the core withthis conversation.

I love that. Let's dig into this conversation
now. When we you know me, wordnerd. We're always gonna come
back to a definition. I wannahear from you.
We danced around this a littlebit. Right? We're like, we're
throwing a lot of words out. Itcould apply to anybody. But when
you say holiness, George, whatdo you mean specifically?
Because what's interesting, andwe've alluded to this already,

(25:31):
is that when we talked aboutthis during that superhuman
framework episode, you went outof your way to note that this
idea is very much applicable tothose on their this journey who
consider themselves to be eitheragnostic or atheistic in your
their belief structure. And so Iwanna understand what it means
to you when we say holiness.

There's this part. By the way, I am not a
great theologian. I am onlygiving you the thoughts of 1 man
who has had his own journey intrying to answer this. But
there's this part inside us thatwe need to pay attention to,
that we need to nurture andcultivate. And you might call it

(26:16):
our essence, if you will.
Heck, if I go to, like, the waythat Christians talk about this,
they say that when you acceptJesus in your heart, the holy
spirit comes to live inside yourheart. Now by the way, I'm in no
means agreeing with that at all.But many times, I've wondered if
that part of you isn't there bydefault, and that this is just a

(26:41):
way to activate it and think ofit more or to get people to
think of it more by actuallynaming it something. And I know
this is a weird kinda concept,and I'm definitely teeter
tottered on a very narrow fenceright now for those of who are
listening to this and are devoutChristians and have a whole

(27:01):
belief structure about, like,when you get the holy spirit or
not. But one thing I know to betrue is we humans are not very
good at paying attention tothings without naming them
first.
And so I've always felt like Ihad this inner guide in me even
before I went to church, knowingthat I didn't start going to
church till 14. So tell me, whatwas that inner guide? What was

(27:24):
that thing that always knewthere was a greater good? What
was that thing that knew that Ishould or shouldn't lie or
should or shouldn't do thesethings? Like, is that spiritual
part that what the Christianityreligion would call the holy
spirit, is it there?
Like, that essence of who youare. And and here's the thing,

(27:46):
where I'm getting with this andit wasn't until later in life
that I realized that maybe, justmaybe, we all have a vital part
of this religious or spiritualconversation wrong. And what I
mean by that is so many peoplewhen you ask them will say, oh,
I'm just a human trying to havea spiritual experience when they

(28:08):
go to worship services or theygo to do something that they
would consider, like, thisexperience that they're trying
to have. But what if theopposite of what was happening,
we didn't realize that, like, itwas the exact opposite of the
way that we thought we areliving our life and that there
came a time where and, again,you know me. I'm very much of a,

(28:29):
like, flip that switch guy, andthat's just like, okay.
Now it's this direction. I Ihave been for years a big
believer that we are allspiritual beings trying to have
a human experience, which is theexact opposite. Liz, by the way,
I thought I was clever when Icame to that realization, and
yet there's literally a quoteout there that when you were

(28:50):
doing research, and putting theshow notes together, I think
it's Pierre Teilhard delChardin. I probably jacked that
name up, but it doesn't matter.

All of France is mad at you, but we also forgive
you.

I'm sorry for all the French speaking people.
It was the country coming out inprobably. The Montana and the
North Carolina got merged there.But it says exactly this. The
quote literally says, we are nothuman beings having a spiritual
experience.
We are spiritual beings having ahuman experience. And then I
think when you realize that,when you get to that point,

(29:23):
like, there's a different set ofdominoes that just start to
fall. And so many of us humans,we've picked different paths to
take that human journey or evenmore importantly, maybe connect
with our spiritual insides, thatessence, that guide, if you
will. And when we talk aboutholiness in a religious and

(29:45):
that's the thing because you'reasking me, like, what is it
really? What what we need to dois we have need to have an open
mindset, a learner's mindset,and and we need to start to
think of it in a broaderperspective because there's
multiple things that have to gointo play here.
When we talk about holiness inthe religious context, each
faith, by the way, has itsunique approach to this. For

(30:09):
Christians, holiness for usoften means connecting with God
through prayer, worship, andfollowing the teachings of the
Bible. Mother Teresa said this,holiness does not consist in
doing extraordinary things. Itconsists in accepting with a
smile what Jesus sends us, God,and it consists in accepting and

(30:31):
following the will of God. Nowone of the things you're gonna
find is there's some matchingand pairing that happens here
because Muslims find holiness intheir dedication to the 5
pillars of Islam, includingdaily prayer, fasting during,
Ramadan, and a pilgrimage toMecca.
Hindus might pursue holiness byfollowing their duty or their

(30:55):
dharma and practice devotionalworship and performing selfless
actions. Sounds a little bitlike servanthood. Buddhists, on
the other hand, strive forenlightenment through the
eightfold path which includesright actions, mindfulness,
meditation, and they're allaimed at achieving moral purity
and compassion. On that one, toquote Buddha, to live a pure

(31:19):
unselfish life, one must countnothing as one's own in the
midst of abundance. I can findabout 17 biblical scriptures
that go in align with that ideaor thought.
But here's the thing, Liz. Thatwas just talking about it from a
religious and multi religionperspective. If we shift gears

(31:40):
on this question of what isholiness and look at non
religious ways to think aboutholiness, Humanism is a great
example of how holiness is aboutliving ethically, being kind,
constantly working on yourpersonal growth. People who even
practice secular mindfulnessfocus on meditation and

(32:02):
awareness to find inner peaceand live a compassionate life.
Sounds familiar?
Then there's stoicism, whichwe've talked about, you know,
here or there during the podcastepisodes, but a philosophy that
teaches us to cultivate virtueslike wisdom and self control,
helping us manage our emotionsand and live rationally. Heck,

(32:25):
even existentialism encourage usto live authentically, take
responsibility for our actions,and create our sense of purpose
and meaning in life. I think itwas Rainer, Maria, and Mann.
Rokey? Roe Reiki?
I don't know the last name. Butthe quote is amazing. Stated,
the only journey is the onewithin. When you think about the

(32:47):
spiritual context and when youthink about the religion and the
nonreligion side and when you'retrying to answer the question,
what is holiness, it's a journeywithin. Listen.
Here's what's funny to me. Whenwe examine the different ways
people approach holiness,whether through the religious
examples that I've talked aboutor other philosophies, we see a

(33:09):
lot of common ground. 1st,living an ethical life is a big
deal for everyone. Even RalphWaldo Emerson said the purpose
of life is not to be happy. It'sto be useful, to be honorable,
to be compassionate, to have itmake some difference that you've
lived and lived well.
I mean, that's probably anundertone of every beyond your

(33:32):
default podcast episode we'veever done. Whether it's
following religious commandmentsor sticking to personal values,
making good and just choicesseems to be key for us humans
around this kind of idea orconversation. Compassion and
kindness also shine throughacross the board, whether you're
looking at religious anddifferent religions or the non

(33:54):
religious side of this. Forexample, if we start to, like,
connect the dots, which is oneof the things that I love to do,
just in general, like, even onthe HubSpot side, marketing
sales service, like, I lovedoing that. But this was, for
me, an exciting dive into this.
Islam and humanism bothemphasize acts of charity, while
Buddhism and mindfulnesspractices focus on empathy and

(34:16):
awareness. Personal growth isanother shared goal. Christians
aim to grow morally by followingthe bible, and humanists work on
self improvement through reasonand ethics. Inner peace is
essential. Meditation helpsBuddhists and those practicing
secular mindfulness, whileprayer serves a similar purpose
for us Christians and forMuslims.

(34:39):
Maha Gandhi hit it on the nose,Liz, when he said, prayer is not
asking. It is a longing of thesoul. It is daily admission to
one's weakness. It is better inprayer to have a heart without
words than words without aheart, our soul, our essence,

(34:59):
our inner core. And what doesthat beg for but community and
connection?
And these are also crucialpieces that are connected up.
Religious practices often bringpeople together for worship and
gatherings, while non religiousphilosophy stressed the
importance of social bonds andfreaking helping each others.

(35:20):
Responsibility andaccountability are common themes
that thread through all of whatwe talked about this morning.
Everyone is encouraged to takeresponsibility for their actions
and their impact on otherswhether it's living according to
divine, the divine will, orpersonal principles. Everyone
seeks meaning and purpose inlife.
I mean, this might be achievedby fulfilling religious duties,

(35:43):
like in Islam, or by creatingone's own purpose. I mean,
despite the differentfoundations, these holiness
approaches share manysimilarities. Like, they focus
on ethics, compassion, growth,peace, community,
responsibility, and even meaningof life. Liz, what I'm trying to

(36:06):
say in answering this question,when it comes to holiness, when
it comes to this thing that wemany times label religion or
spirituality, what I would wantthe listeners understand, what I
want everybody to see is that weare more the same than we are
different.

Can you share your personal experiences with
how an emphasis on holiness andfeeding your soul in your life
has impacted your beyond yourdefault journey? Because I
appreciate how you'vecontextualized this for all of
this to to make this moreaccessible. But let's talk about
your personal journey here.

Have a hot seat. Listen. It's my core. It's
my anchor. It's my GPS.
It's my everything. Those arethe words that I know how to put
around this. But most of mylessons of life, and I'm using
air quotes. If you're listeningto this, you have no idea that
I'm using air quotes. Lessons oflife air quotes usually happen

(37:01):
during times I was eitherpurposely or unpurposely, like,
not knowing I was feeding mysoul.
And sometimes I'll even be ashonest to say that well,
sometimes, maybe even manytimes, god had to break me or
tap me on the shoulder to get meto focus inward and on me.
Sometimes broken, sometimes atap on the shoulder. I'm pretty

(37:24):
thick headed. Let's be honest.Many times, he had to, like,
stop me in my tracks, And we'vetalked about the stories around
this.
But, like, listen. When I almostdied 13 hours away from dying in
the Navy, I landed at FaithRanch, and I had this ability to
focus on my belief around timeand what time is and what time

(37:46):
isn't and the importance oftime. And, Liz, we've done a
podcast episode on, like, timeand timing. And if I didn't have
that time where I could focus onthe soul, if I didn't have the
time to nurture and unpack theinside of what had happened to
where I was at, I I wouldn'thave this fundamental belief

(38:07):
structure around time, which, bythe way, is a a a link or a
linchpin to the fact thatthere's other beliefs that came
along in my life that are thatare based on that. It was also
at Faith Ranch the same timethat I was learning and
unpacking this belief structurearound time and timing and

(38:29):
importance of time.
And and, again, we've told thisstory, but that I learned a
really large lesson around egoand humility. And we literally
last week, we talked about thisconversation around humility and
being humble, and I couldn'thave that belief structure. We
couldn't have had thatconversation if I hadn't had a

(38:53):
time where I was able to focuson the core, on the soul, on
being able to nurture it throughwhat that actually meant. Being
a pastor at the church is whereI picked up the blessing bomber.
You know, the this idea of beingat an Indian reservation and
this prophetess walking up andand me a week earlier being,

(39:16):
like, I've changed my entirelife.
Why don't I see the blessings?When is god gonna realize that
I've got my act together? Andand her touching me on the
shoulder and saying, when whenare you gonna realize you're the
blessing? And and and picking upthis blessing bomber mentality,
it it wouldn't have happened ifI wasn't at a place where I was

(39:36):
focusing on my soul, nourishingmy soul, thinking about
spirituality or or holiness.It's the same place when I was
at that church that we did thisthing called the fish philosophy
as one of the sermons, and itwas play, pray, and make their
day.
I can't tell you how manyprofessional talks I've had
where I talk about going to playinstead of going to work And the

(40:01):
mental mind shift, but thatwould never exist if I hadn't
been focusing on. By the way,make their day is the link to my
importance of servanthood, andleaving people better when I
leave them than when I foundthem is because it's play, pray,
and make their day becauseyou're a blessing bomber, and

(40:24):
there's only a limited amount oftime. So walk this world with
humility and not a 2 by 4 sothat you can enable the Johnny
Appleseed who you're supposed tobe. I feel like I'm preaching
for a second just and so, like,it's been everything. Again,
it's the anchor.
It's the core. It's the thingthat and you said this earlier.

(40:48):
It's the thing that while I'vewalked away from religion, and
while even sometimes I felt likeI may have walked away from God,
I've never been able to reallywalk away from the holiness, the
spiritual, the essence, thecore, the guide who has always

(41:11):
brought me back to where Ibelieve that I'm supposed to be
on the path and journey that I'msupposed to go down. Liz, that's
enough of the hot seat for me.What are your thoughts?

It's funny. And I wrote about this in the
newsletter that went out lastnight for the weekend edition,
beyond yourdefault.comforward/newsletter.

You're getting good at that, by the way.

I'm getting real good at that. But I'm bringing
this up for a very importantpoint because in it, the whole
idea, the whole thesis is thatas humans, we tend to cling to
sameness and homogeny out of adesire for safety and security.
But that is not how we are builtas humans to function because
that is not how the universe isbuilt to function. Everything is

(41:51):
about finding that perfectbalance of contrasting
opposites. And I wroteopposition, polarity,
contradiction.
These are the real buildingblocks of our lives and we see
this truth play out every singleday. Want life to get easier? Do
something hard. Want peace? Pickup a sword and fight the right
battles.
Want relief? Run at your pain.Want something to happen faster?
Slow down. Want proof of God?

(42:12):
Study science. Want to lovesomeone else? Love yourself
first. Want to make a dessertreally sing? Throw a dash of
flaky sea salt on top.
But I wanna go back to want tofind proof of God, study
science. So I mentioned the factthat I have drifted here and
there and everywhere across whatsome might consider the
religious or spiritual oragnostic spectrum. And what was

(42:33):
very interesting to me is that Ifound my greatest level of soul
work through the study ofscience, which is why I put that
line in there. Want proof ofGod? Study science.
One of my favorite authors is anastronomer named Carl Sagan.
Incredibly famous man. And justto your point, George, it's

(42:54):
always been for me about forsome reason, I've just had this
this weird optimistic hope. Iwas talking with a friend of
mine a couple of weeks ago andhe was saying, given everything
that you've been through, Idon't know how you do it. And he
mentioned another person that heknows, you know, I don't know
how so and so does it either.
Like, if it were me, I mighthave just, like, done drugs,
something else. I'm like, Idon't know. I just knew I'm
like, look. First of all, you'relooking through this as a very

(43:14):
polished lens.

Right.

And now did did Liz effort to help a drug
addiction? No. But did Liz makea lot of great choices
throughout her life? Also, no.Yeah.
You know? But I'm 17 gerbils ina trench coat just trying to
make it work, and I think that'sprobably pretty typical of the
human experience. Right? We'reall trying to make it work. But
I've always had this optimism.
I've always had this thing aboutlike we are more alike than we

(43:36):
are different. And my journey ofthe study of that maxim, which
in many ways some peopleconsider to be religious and be
spiritual started in science.There's this incredible image
that the Voyager 1 took of theEarth when it turned around
right as it was passing Saturn,and it's the tiniest little dot.

(43:58):
It's this little speck. And CarlSagan wrote, look again at that
dot.
That's here. That's home. That'sus. On it, everyone you love,
everyone you know, everyoneyou've ever heard of, every
human being who ever was livedout their lives. The aggregate
of our joy, our suffering,thousands of confident

(44:18):
religions, ideologies, andeconomic doctrines, every hunter
and forager, every hero andcoward, every creator and
destroyer of civilization, everyking and peasant, every young
couple in love, every mother andfather, hopeful child, inventor
and explorer, every teacher ofmorals, every corrupt
politician, every superstar,every supreme leader, every

(44:42):
saint and sinner in history ofour species lived there on a
mote of dust suspended in asunbeam.
And that is from an astronomer.That is not from a Bible. That
is not from any sort ofspiritual doctrine. And so when
we think about, you know, thatquote from Chardin earlier
about, you know, we are humanshaving a spiritual experience

(45:02):
versus however you want todefine it. Yeah.
There's also a secular versionof that as well. And Carl Sagan
wrote it. The cosmos is withinus. We are made of star stuff.
We are a way for the universe toknow itself.
Mhmm. I remember when you heardthat, you had a reaction to it.
I wanna continue with mythoughts, but I remember sharing
that quote with you when we werepreparing for this. And you did
one of my favorite things, whichis when I know you get excited,

(45:24):
you kinda back hop off the bikea little bit, and you go, oh,
your body physically reacted tothat. Yeah.
It's the god is

in us. It's funny because when I hear you
talk about the pieces thatyou're sharing right now, it's
like, everything is so complex.How can you believe in chaos?
Everything is so orchestrated.How can you believe it's not
defined or destined or divine?

(45:51):
Right? Like and so we wannathink that it's such a separate
thing. Like, there's God andthen there's us, but it's like
sometimes I get this vision ofwhere it's like, no. It's it's
just altogether. It's our ownlens that we're looking through
that makes it feel separate orlook separate, but it never is.

(46:14):
The reason I get excited aboutthis conversation and these
conversations and when, like,these things come up, like you
said, when I back off the micand get a little bit hype is
because it's one of the mostimportant conversations and one
of the most important journeysthat you can allow yourself to

(46:35):
at least go down and see whathappens on the other side. And
so many humans that I've met,because of usually,
historically, other bad humans,refuse to allow themselves to
get in the boat and just seewhere it leads.

That's what happened for me. And, I mean, I
just I kept studying science. Ijust kept studying it. Yeah. And
what was so amazing to me isthat whether your pathway
through soul work or thisrecognition that, like, guys, I
understand taxes suck and wemake jokes about and in this
economy, we are on a tiny paleblue dot on a mode of dust
suspended in a sunbeam.

(47:14):
Carl Sagan has another quote,we're like butterflies who flaps
its wings for a day and thinksit's forever. Right? It is that
man is a poet of the stars. Icannot recommend his work
enough. And what was funny isthat I have this book.
I have all of his books. TheDemon Haunted World, Science as
a Candle in the Dark. I rememberbeing very excited about this
book when I first picked it upbecause so Carl Sagan has never

(47:35):
gone as far as saying he'satheistic. He's more agnostic,
but he's very challenging. I'llI'll be straight up.
He's very challenging oforganized religions, the hubris
that the hubris that theysometimes present, a lot of new
age stuff he also was not a hugefan of. So when I opened this
book, I was very excited to justkind of see the scientific
inquiry approach to the marriageof the idea of spirituality and

(47:58):
science. But I honestly thoughtthat his stance was gonna be
more like, can we just talkabout atoms and matter and,
like, no. And instead, spiritcomes from the Latin word to
breathe. What we breathe is air,which is certainly matter
however thin.
Despite usage to the contrary,there's no necessary implication
in the word spiritual that weare talking of anything other
than matter, or anything outsidethe realm of science. On

(48:20):
occasion, I feel free to use theword. Science is not only
compatible with spirituality, itis a profound source of
spirituality. When we recognizeour place in an immensity of
light years and in the passageof ages, we grasp the intricacy,
beauty, and subtlety of life.Then that soaring feeling, that
sense of elation and humilitycombined is surely spiritual.

(48:42):
So are our emotions in thepresence of great art or music
or literature or acts ofexemplary selfless courage such
as those of Mohandas Gandhi orMartin Luther King Junior. The
notion that science andspirituality are somehow
mutually exclusive does adisservice to both. And so when
I think about my own personalexperiences and how this
emphasis for me because holinesshas always been a practice of

(49:05):
looking to the stars for me. Igo to church. I have these other
pieces of me.
But when I think about themoments where I feel the true
greater connectedness, it'sbecause, like, there's looking
within yourself. And and this iswhere I think it's fascinating.
We talked about mindfulness. Wetalked about cultivating
awareness and empathy. Mypathway was actually to set

(49:26):
myself to to the side entirely.
To not exist and to just becomeendlessly and relentlessly
curious when looking up andunderstanding where we are. And
that was more my pathway torecontextualizing my role.
Because humans, we are so thethere's the reason why the folly

(49:46):
of man is even afraid to beginwith. We humanize and center
ourselves in such a way that welose the thread. We lose the
story.
You know, we wake up every dayand I understand that this is a
very tough world to be living inright now. A lot of people are
scared and varying degrees ofscared and a lot of people have
rights to be scared. But whathappens is that when we get

(50:07):
sucked into that very tunnelvisioned myopic way of living,
suddenly, we are living a lifeof me instead of a life of we.

Yeah.

And that's where I really challenged myself. And
I pushed myself to push myselfto the side to achieve that. I'm
not perfect. I'm an only child.I like affirmation and attention
more than breathing.
You know? Like, but it is achallenge. It is a practice.

It's funny you you mentioned something and then
immediately this popped into mybrain, so I'm gonna share it.
And too many of us, myselfincluded, by the way, because
there's different parts of mylife and different parts of my
story, but too many of us arecomfortable with being confident
versus curious. And with thisconversation we're having around
holiness and spirituality,you've gotta embrace curiosity

(50:51):
and wonderment and belief andunderstand out of all of it. Out
out of the curiosity, out of thehopping in the canoe and going
down the river and letting itjust happen, what belief
structures just kind of putthemselves in play because just
for a moment, you're willing tobe less confident of what you

(51:13):
think everything is.

What I'm finding striking about this conversation
as we continue to go through itis that the the holiness this
idea of holiness as a pillar andhumility are so deeply
intertwined. Because you have tobe and I wrote about this as
well. You've already heard theURLs. I'm not gonna do it again.
Just kidding.
Beyond yourdefault.comforward/newsletter.
Anytime you really wantsomething, you have to humble
your subscribe. You have tohumble yourself before it.

(51:37):
Things that are greater than yourequire you as a human being to
decenter yourself from theconversation and say, wow, there
is an experience outside ofmyself. There's something
greater than myself.
It makes things harder andeasier at the same time. Like, I
have this thing that I call thebomb rule. How did I get through

(51:58):
last summer, George? Because Iknew that unless I physically
exploded and became a bombmyself and then just it just
boom everywhere. The next daywas gonna come.
I was gonna have to get up andtime is a relentless little
ministress and she will justkeep going.

Yep. I

don't care if we're talking about the
elasticity in which you canperceive time or experience
time. Yeah. It moves. It'sgoing. It is a human construct
that keeps moving.
That clock keeps ticking. Sowhat are your different
practices or ways you canencourage those in their beyond
their default journey who maystruggle or feel resistance to
the idea of nurturing their soulfor whatever reason on a path to

(52:38):
their own version of holiness.

First off, if you feel resistant, I need to
ask you a couple questions. And,again, you might get your
notepad out or not for these.But do you want inner peace in
your life? Do you want emotionalwell-being in your life? How
about personal growth?
Maybe, just maybe, you wantpurpose and meaning in your

(53:04):
life. What about resilience,compassion, empathy, happiness,
fulfillment? Anybody out therelistening this podcast want a
balanced life? I love Psalms4610, by the way. It says, be
still and know that I am God.
Just thinking that or keepingthat in mind sometimes in my

(53:26):
life has kept me balanced.Nurturing your soul is about
caring for your inner self,which leads to what we'll call a
more harmonious and fulfillinglife regardless, by the way, if
you haven't caught on yet, ofyour religious beliefs. So I
have to ask you, if you wantthose things that I just asked

(53:50):
the questions around in yourlife, why are you struggling? At
the end of the day, if you wantthose things, then kill the
struggle and just start thejourney. Like, in my personal
opinion, you shouldn't bestruggling.
And so I want those things,George. I'm willing to mentally
kill the struggle, and I wannamove forward. There's 3, what

(54:15):
I'll call powerful ways that Ithink you can make nurturing
your soul part of your dailyroutine. The first thing is that
you have to take time foryourself. You have to set aside
a few minutes to reflect on yourthoughts, your feelings, and
actions that you've taken orbeen part of every single day.

(54:36):
This simple practice can helpyou better understand yourself
and your inner needs, youressence, your core, the place of
spirituality and holiness.Listen. It doesn't have to be a
huge thing. Like, so many timeswe put these, like, super goals
on ourself. Start with just 5minutes in the morning or before

(54:58):
bed, and watch how it transformsyour self awareness because
that's a conversation.
I think self awareness is verymuch tied into this holiness
conversation. And we talkedabout, you know, stoicism and
stuff like that, but Socratessaid the unexamined life is not
worth living. What? Theunexamined life is not worth

(55:23):
living. Listen.
If you're not taking time foryourself, you're not examining
the life that you're living, butdon't be hard on yourself. The
next thing that I think helps uswith this holiness,
spirituality, growing your core,your soul, is that you have to
focus on building meaningfulconnections. So many times we

(55:45):
try to do this junk ourselves.We all need to feel supported.
We all want to be understood.
So make an active effort toconnect with others in
meaningful ways. I don't care ifthis is joining a support group
or going to a worship service orhanging out at McDonald's
because you're 57, and all 57year olds sit at McDonald's and

(56:09):
drink coffee in the morning. I'mjust kidding. They all don't,
but you get my point. Like,wherever your group of humans
are, make sure you'reparticipating in community
events or at a minimum, contacta friend.
So many times I've been theidiot that's like, well, they
didn't contact me, so why shouldI contact them? Like, no. Like,

(56:30):
realize this is an importantpiece. These connections can
provide the support andunderstanding that we all crave,
that we all need in thisjourney, especially if we allow
them to lean into these types ofconversations that we're having
today around self awareness andbelief and resilience and
spirituality. The other thingthat we're fundamentally bad at

(56:53):
is humans, and I literally havethis written on my whiteboard
where it's like I've come a longway since 20 13, and sometimes I
keep myself beaten down orbeaten back to who I was.
Not so much anymore, but I usedto be really bad at this. But
the last thing I'll mention thatI want folks to pay attention to
is, like, if you're nurturingyour soul, if you're hopped in

(57:16):
the canoe and you're going downthis river, if you're willing to
be curious versus confident,reap the rewards. Nurturing your
soul leads to incrediblebenefits like better mental
health, greater resilience, amore profound sense of
fulfillment in your life. Soremember, sharing your journey

(57:39):
and hearing other stories can beincredibly motivating and you
can reap those rewards if you'repaying attention to them and
sharing them or listening fromothers, those communities, those
relationships that you'rebuilding. A great quote, and I
think it's Rumi, again, I suckat names, is when you do things

(58:00):
from your soul, you feel a rivermoving in you, a joy.
So take time to celebrate thebenefits together and inspire
each other to keep growing. Andwhen we say, hey. What do you
want out of life? And mosthumans say, I just wanna be
happy or I I just wanna bejoyful. When you're doing things

(58:21):
from your soul is when thathappiness and joy show up.
So if you make these simpleactions part of your daily life,
reflect, connect, and embracethe benefits of nurturing your
soul no matter how religiouslyyou focus on it or take them or
not religiously you take them.No matter what, you're feeding

(58:43):
your soul and that spiritualsoul side of who you are and
what you have.

I'll throw in my 2¢. Read a book. Learn about
something. Honestly, it kind ofplays into what I was talking
about with polar opposites.Like, you want peace?
Go to war. Right? You wanna finda way to be holy? Don't try to
be holy. Just be curious aboutthe world around you.
If you're interested in history,pick up a book about history. If
you're interested in science,pick up a book about science. Go
out of your way to learnsomething about something where

(59:13):
you are curious. And that is areally incredible way to
decenter yourself in terms of alarger narrative of the human
experience. And what it means tobe a human on this little
floating marble in space.
What I I will say though, justfrom my personal adventures, I
loved science as a pathway tothis because science is like the

(59:34):
ultimate parent. You'll be atoddler and you'll be like, why?
Well, because atoms do this.Why? Because protons do that.
Well, why? Because electrons dothis. Well, why? Because
neutrons do that. But why?
I freaking said so. That's why.Eventually, you're just gonna
hit a threshold of, well, wedon't know why.

Yeah.

Because science said so. And that's where I
always think it's really fun.Because then you're like, oh.
And then that black hole isstill gonna suck you in anyway.
Like, science will be like, I'mso sorry.
I didn't mean to scream at you.I feel really bad about but
doesn't change the rules. Right?It doesn't

George B. Thomas (01:00:05):
change the rules.

Liz Moorehead (01:00:06):
Universal rules still happen. Like, that's and
that's what I love is that juststop searching for soul and just
start being curious. Right?Like, you want wealth? Don't
chase wealth.
You want happiness? Don't chasehappiness. Right? You want
soulful fulfilling feelings?Don't chase holiness.

(01:00:27):
Just get curious. Learnsomething outside of your
bubble. If you're feeling acraving right now, it's because
you're just feeding yourself thesame mental, spiritual, and
soulful junk food. And maybesome of it's good. But even if
you just eat all carrots all thetime, you're gonna turn orange.
Like, you know, you gottadiversify your curiosity diet.

(01:00:49):
So George, one last question foryou before we end today's
conversation. I gotta askbecause I can imagine there are
some people listening to thiswho still might be thinking, is
this really that important? Isnurturing your soul really that
flippin' important, George?Think about it.
We talk about growth mindset. Wetalk about goal setting. We talk
about morning routines. How isany of this important?

George B. Thomas (01:01:09):
So first of all, absolutely. Like, that
would be my answer to thequestion. But I have to back up
for a second, Liz, because I'dgive it a caveat of absolutely,
personal journey. But I think itis also for you, and I think it
also is for the listeners ofthis podcast as well. Nurturing

(01:01:33):
your soul is important, period.
Like, we could just stop there,but so many people look at it
as, that'd be a nice to have.Maybe I'll plug that in someday.
Oh, well, if I plug that in,then life's gonna be boring, and
I wanna go do this, and I wannabe this. The funny thing is
nurturing your soul, it isn't anice to have. It is super

(01:01:56):
important, and it's essentialfor living your best life and
being the best human that youcan be.
It's literally an unlock. I wantyou to think of it this way.
Your soul is the core of who youare. You're a spiritual being
soul having a human experience.When you take care of, which by

(01:02:19):
the way, we're bad at at takingcare of our bodies.
Well, some of us are. Some of usare getting better, and we can
see our bodies. You can't seeyour soul. Think about how
difficult it is to take care ofthat and nurture. But when you
do pay attention to it, when youdo take care of it, it's amazing

(01:02:40):
how everything else starts tofall in place.
Proverbs 423 says, above allelse, guard your heart, your
soul, your core, your essence.I'm adding those words. Above
all else, guard your heart.Everything you do flows from it.
If I go out of the book ofProverbs and go into the book of

(01:03:01):
George, above all else, guardyour spirit.
Above all else, guard your soulbecause everything else you do
flows from it. Nurturing yoursoul brings inner peace. Finding
moments of tranquility can makea huge difference in a world

(01:03:22):
that's always on the go. It'snonstop in this digital crazy
chaotic contraption that we liveon. Nurturing your soul helps
you stay centered and handlestress better, which in return
helps your emotional well-being.
And when you nurture your soul,you become more in tune with

(01:03:42):
your emotions. This makes youless likely to be overwhelmed by
them, which we've talked aboutemotions, again, historically on
this podcast. But as CarolineMiss said, the soul always knows
what to do to heal itself. Thechallenge is to silence the
mind. When we can silence themind and let the soul heal

(01:04:06):
itself, we can get into thisworld where we can talk about
the word resilience, which weall need to survive in which
where we're at right now.
Listen. Life throws us all curveballs, maybe 1 or 2, maybe 17 or
27 curve balls, But a nurturedsoul can bounce back stronger.

(01:04:26):
It helps you navigate thesechallenges that not if they
come, but when they come, theyhelp you navigate it with grace
and strength. And when you'recompassionate and empathetic,
again, important importance oftalked about the importance of

(01:04:49):
that for nurturing your soul andthis journey of holiness. For
many of us, Liz, happiness andfulfillment are the ultimate
goals.
Like, you can ask Family Feud,surveyed a 100 humans, and they
said, right, happiness andfulfillment are gonna be like
answer 1 and 2. When your soulis nurtured, when you take time

(01:05:10):
to focus on this, you feelhappier. You feel more content.
You feel truly fulfilled. Atleast that's what I've seen in
my life.
That's the way that I felt whenI've focused on this versus
walking away from it. It bringsthis sense of balance. It
integrates all aspects of yourlife, physical, mental,

(01:05:31):
emotional. Again, it createsthis kind of harmony in the
well-being. And, Liz, thispodcast is called Beyond Your
Default.
It is a personal growth podcast.So when you ask me if nurturing
your soul is that important, Icould have just answered you, by
the way, with this. Personalgrowth is a lifelong journey,

(01:05:53):
and nurturing your soul keepsyou on that path. I could have
answered with that because ofwhat this podcast is. It pushes
you to constantly improve, to bemore self aware, and to live a
life with intention.
Understanding this in turn helpsyou find your purpose and
meaning in life. Do you wanna bemore fulfilled? Do you wanna be

(01:06:14):
happy? Do you wanna havepurpose? Do you wanna live a
life of meaning?
Like, knowing why you do whatyou do gives you direction and
motivation. So, yes, nurturingyour soul is freaking necessary.
It's the foundation for athriving, resilient, and
meaningful life that you'retrying to live. But, hey, Liz,

(01:06:36):
listeners, don't take my wordfor it. Try it for yourself and
see how it transforms yourjourney to a life beyond your
default.

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