Overcoming the Stigma of Mental Health

Episode Transcript
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George B. Thomas (00:02):
I even think that emotional intelligence,
which is funny to kind of thinkabout because, again, in my
later years, I focused on being,like, a communication expert,
like, a great communicator, aworld class communicator,
whether I'm stepping on stage ordoing a podcast or just hanging
out even with friends, like, inthis emotional intelligence

(00:23):
helps us communicate moreeffectively, which then helps us
build stronger relationshipswhich again, all of these are
kind of core principles ofliving a life beyond your
default. But building thatemotional intelligence is only
possible if you stay mentallyhealthy or can get through the
ish and get to the point whereyou might think that you're

(00:46):
mentally healthy, which by theway, I don't think there's ever
perfect mental health. We arealways kind of dealing with
something even when we thinkwe're not, but there's this
quote by Dan Millman and he oncesaid, you don't have to control
your thoughts. You just have tostop letting them control you.

Liz Moorehead (01:07):
Welcome back to beyond your default. I'm your
host, Liz Moorehead. And asalways, I'm joined by one of my
favorite humans on the planet,George b Thomas. How are you
doing today, bud?

I am actually doing great. I woke up this
morning. It's a Monday morning.We have a full week ahead of us.
The weekend was spectacular, bythe way.
It's interesting. Like, the last2 weeks, I've been struggling,
and then it's like the last 2 or3 days I've had, like, these
epiphany moments. And so it'sjust been a real interesting

(01:39):
journey for me lately.

That's exciting. I love it. Well, let's dig right
into our highlight and lowlight. What have you got for me?
What what were your highlightsand low lights of the weekend?

So the low light was maybe just unpacking a
little bit of my own ish,allowing me to get into my own
brain. Sometimes I get a littlebit too deep, work a little bit
too much. I chisel maybe thewrong areas. And sometimes with
that, you can kinda loseyourself or you can make your

(02:09):
journey a little bit moredifficult than it needs to be.
And so I had to kinda back awayfrom some things that I was
working on and struggling withover the last couple weeks.
However, the highlight of thisweekend is that I made some mad
dash improvements to the beyondyour default community. And so

(02:30):
all of the podcasts are inthere. There's articles for the
journey that are now in there.There's a quotes and inspiration
place that's now in there. Weadded I think it's, like, 12 or
14 deep dive discussion areas,and these are, like, the 12 to
14 places that humans have themost problems when it comes to

(02:54):
this journey or being their fullselves or dealing with fear and
anxiety.
And so really getting it to thepoint where we're enabling it
for the community that wants tocome in and join us and have
some accountability, somepartnerships, some resources.
One of the things I'm superexcited about is we're gonna
start loading in the worksheets.So think about worksheets per

(03:18):
episode that you could go backin and start to do again these
deep dives and working onyourself and where you're trying
to get and focus on your goalsand reflective questions and
different things like that. Soit's just came a long way to the
point where, Liz, I went aheadand created a special 3 month
free plan that if anybody'slistening to this podcast and is

(03:41):
interested, you can reach outand let us know. We'll give you
the link.
You can get 3 months free. Youcan get in there. You know, see
if it's right for you. That'sthe thing. Like, if it's not
right for you, then ditch it.
Go some like, whatever. Keeplistening to the podcast. You
know, it is what it is, but atleast giving people 3 months to
be able to work through theworksheets, meet other people

(04:02):
that are trying to live thislife beyond their default. Like,
I couldn't get enough. Like, Iwas just messing around.
I'd carry my lap top out to theliving room, watch a little bit
of Olympics, come back into myoffice, work on it a little bit
more, woke up super early,walked, like 28,000 steps while
I was, like, creating articlesand putting

them in. Me that screenshot, buddy. You big show
off.

So I'm not trying to show off. I'm just
trying to be healthy. Right?Which we'll talk about next
week, physical health as well,because there's definitely been
some major switches flipped overthe last three and a half,
almost four months as far as,like, the physical health piece
of my life. Finally.
Thank god. So all in all, like,again, dealing with maybe mining

(04:46):
too deep in who I'm trying to beand what I'm trying to do, but
also then just having theawesomeness of creating this
community, dreaming about whatit could potentially be in the
future, the amount of lives itcould impact, the ripple effect
that I'll be able to see fromit, like, that definitely was
the highlight this weekend. Butwhat about you, Liz?

First of all, before we move on too quickly,
community.beyondyourdefault.comis where you find all of this
incredible goodness that Georgewas just talking about because
you were sending me stuffthrough the weekend. We were
putting our favorite books inthere. What was really neat for
me was to see your list of booksversus my list of books. I know
there were a few on there whereI'm like, yeah. I would have
totally recommended that, but itwas neat to I was just saying

(05:29):
like, oh, take it take a notehere, take a note there.
There.

Yeah.

And for you long time listeners, I'm so excited
for you guys to see theseworksheets because what's really
neat about it is I don't know ifany of you all listening are
like me. We'll just be goingalong, minding our own business,
and then George just comes likewith a drive by of like, and
here are some big questions foryou to think about. What is
happiness? Yeah. What ishappiness to you?
So this gives you structure.This gives you the ability to

(05:55):
really start putting some ofthese things into practice. And
what I love about theseworksheets is that they're
designed for busy people likeyou and me, George.

Yeah.

Where I don't know about you, but I like to
have at least a part of mymorning either dedicated to
personal growth or it's justkind of like my me time. So each
of them is designed to becompleted in under 10 minutes.

Oh, that's so

good. That's what makes it really nice. Because I
don't know. Like, I've sometimesgotten these, like, self help
books and, like, professionalgrowth stuff. And I'll open up
those books and say, so you'regonna set aside 45 minutes.
On what planet, Gina, am Isetting aside 45 minutes? This
is not this is not happening.This is not how this work.

So When I need a snack and a backpack, we're in
trouble. Like, it's like, no. Ijust need, like, a bite sized
thing that gets me that 1%better each and every day. And,
Liz, I'm so glad that youbrought up too the book section
because that might be one of thesections that excites me the
most when you think about theflywheel effect of a community.
Because having other people comein and suggest books that

(06:54):
they've been part of and knowthat, like, it's gonna be this
endless supply of potential goodreading or listening that I,
you, and other community memberswill be able to dive into.
Like, just that curatedawesomeness of because I'm a
book nerd. Sometimes I readthem. Most times, if I'm being
completely honest, I listen tothem.

That counts. This is a conversation for another
day, but I will make this reallyfast. You are consuming words
put out there into the universeto help you learn and grow. Or
if it's a John Christian novel,just to, like, have a good time.
Doesn't really matter.
I don't like that peoplegatekeep the concept of reading,
meaning you have to have pickedup a book.

I like this line of thinking.

I don't think it's helpful for people who
learn in different ways.

Yeah.

I am someone who actually needs a book. You've
seen my books. I highlight, I Imark. Like, I am very, like,
tactile in my readingexperience. Audio, I get
distracted so easily, which iswhy I can't do it.
I'll be listening to it and,like, I'll be like, wait, what
what did you say in the last pen20 minutes? Because I started
thinking about, like, Val Kilmercirca Top Gun.

See, it's funny because I'm I probably
need to be diagnosed withsomething. But, literally, if
I'm like, I need a nap, the nextwords in my brain are, then get
a book. Because, like, you willstart to read it, and you will
fall asleep. Like, that is whatwe want.

Need to be diagnosed with anything. Our
brains are all wired to workdifferently, which is going to
segue nicely into ourconversation today.

It's almost like we planned this, but we
didn't.

We totally did not. So, anyway,
Go check it out.

But listeners, because you're a listener, if
you want the 3 months free,don't, like, just immediately
sign up. Make sure you hit usup. Let us know. We'll get you
the special link, 3 months free.But you can go at least check
out the kind of page for what itis and all that good stuff.

Email george@beyondyourdefault.comorliz@beyondyourdefault.com,
and we got you. Alright. Myhighlight and low light for the
week, I'll keep this quick. Myhighlight is, I gotta say,
Saturday, I had, like, the bestday. It was so much fun.
One of my best friends, we do anannual brewery trip every year.

Oh, I it already sounds fun.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And this weekend was
gonna be jam packed because itwas my working weekend. Right?
You and I were both like, we'redoubling down.
We're doubling down on BeyondYour Default. We're getting a
lot of stuff done. And a friendof mine reached out and said,
you know, hey, let's do thisthis weekend. Let's go do this.
I'm, like, okay.
I think I can squeeze it in. SoI got up really early, got my
Beyond Your but fault defaultstuff done. And we just had the

(09:25):
best freaking day. What I lovedabout it is that, like, I've
spent a lot of time with thisperson in particular, but then
also in general, I've noticedI'm hanging out more with people
in groups and not 1 on 1. And sowe had this whole, like, 1 on 1
day.
And at first, I felt a littlebit anxious. I'm, like, am I
gonna have this is somebody I'veknown for, like, 8 years. Am I

(09:45):
gonna have enough to say? Mygod. What if they realized, like
and I got, like, really anxiousabout it.

Oh, that's interesting.

And then it was the perfect day. It was just,
like, the perfect it was funlistening to music in the car.
On the way up, I controlled theradio. On the way back, he
controlled the radio. It wasjust one of those moments where
you're just, like, one to oneconnections are the best.

Yeah.

This is why I love this friendship. It was one
of those things where I got homeand I was exhausted.

Well, good times can be exhausting.

I was totally spent. I had the best time.
Ended the day actually doing agame night with some people. So
it started out solo and thenjust, like, a couple hours at
the end with other people, andit was just I remember falling
into bed and being, like, bestday ever.

Yeah. Let me jot down a note. If you're
having a bad day or bad week,best friend and brewery. Check.
Got this.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Also, I had a
pickleback grilled cheesesandwich.

Oh, which have you ever had a pickleback shot?
Yeah. I have. Oh, yeah. Anywayoh, wrong podcast.
We shouldn't be talking no. I'mjust kidding.

Shut. Shut. Shut. Low light. Man, I didn't have
one.

Oh, nice. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm gonna put this in the show notes, but,
George, I am gonna send you avideo of the most beautiful
sunset I have ever seen as I wasdriving back home last night.
And it was one of those momentswhere it's like, I don't care
what your belief structure is.Have a moment of awe. Yeah. And
I sent it to a friend.
They're like, wow. What filter?I'm like, no filter.

Isn't that the greatest when you're like, I
don't even need to, like, modifythis? It is great how it is. And
by the way, I think it's socool. And and, hopefully, if
you're listening to this and youdon't do this, like, finding
those moments in nature that areawe inspiring or do fill you up,
like, that's the one thing inour society today that I don't

(11:27):
think we do enough of. And, bythe way, I'm preaching to
myself.
Like, if my kids were youngerright now, I think I would wanna
go camping more and, like, getus outside and get us to nature
and get us unplugged and get usaway from, like, the rat race.
Yeah. Nature's awesome.

Nature is awesome. And now we have to have
a conversation, George. 1, whereI asked you going into this. You
may you made a face, and I saidto you, I'm not sure if I should
be scared or if you're scaredabout this conversation or or if
it's a little column a, a littlecolumn b, and then he sighed and
went a little column a, a littlecolumn b, which means, ladies
and gentlemen, beyond yourdefault nation, we are having a

(12:06):
conversation today that is gonnamake all of us a little bit
uncomfortable, which usuallymeans, in my world

Maybe.

This is the exact conversation we need to be
having.

Yeah. It is. Here's the thing. Like, the
reason I say this, Liz, isbecause I feel like I have
things that might add value, butI also feel like this
conversation could be a littlebit of my Achilles heel. But
then what's funny is I'velearned through life that
sometimes we think that ourbiggest weakness actually can

(12:35):
become our biggest strength.
So I don't know. Like, there'sjust this whole mud puddle
version of what might come outtoday, and I'm like, alright,
lord. Please help me not soundlike an idiot.

So the conversation we're having today
is about overcoming the stigmaaround mental health.

Yeah.

And the reason why we're having this
conversation today is it'sactually a 2 parter. So just to
give some context, for those ofyou who've been listening for a
while, you may remember anepisode not too long ago called
the superhuman framework, whichdiscusses the 10 different
pillars that basically createthe architecture, the 2
dimensional blueprints required.Right? In order for you to build

(13:12):
your own beyond your defaultlife. For example, like, every
house has windows, doors,ceilings, floors.
This superhuman framework ismeant to provide that to you,
and then you put the decoration.You decide, well, what shape is
the house? Is it colonial? Is itmodern? Do you wanna have a

(13:32):
minimalist?
What you know, this is aboutgiving you the architecture.

Yeah. You can paint the walls. Orange walls,
blue walls, purple walls, up toyou. Liz, it's funny that you're
mentioning this because, by theway, when I was working on the
community, I was, like, superexcited. I was thinking of right
here.
This is where I'm gonna put thesuperhuman framework course.
Like, right here. It's gonnalive right here. Anyway, go
ahead. Sorry.

And what's great about this, though, is that one
of the pillars that we knew wehad to have a discussion about
was health. And we've talkedabout physical health somewhat,
but we are gonna be discussingthat next week. Yeah. This week.
It's all about mental health,particularly the stigma.
So my goal today is to actuallycreate space Yeah. For the
vagaries. And we've been verytransparent, listeners,

(14:16):
throughout this whole time thatwe are on this journey
ourselves. You are watching usin real time unpack our own ish.
I've talked about my trauma, mydivorce.
You've talked about, you know,you almost died. Yeah. You
fought the Lord on what thelimitations of your body were
multiple times, George b Thomas.

Because I'm hard headed. I fully have
embraced. I'm a hard headedindividual.

But today, we're creating space for the fact that
there is a stigma around it.We're gonna talk through our
challenges with it. We're gonnaencourage discourse. And we also
wanna recognize that thisjourney around mental health is
something that is very personalto each and every one of us.

Oh, yeah.

If and when we recognize it. How we integrate
it into our lives. One of thereasons there is a stigma is
because for many, many decades,it was considered a weakness,
something you did not address,something you did not do. And
there are many genderedstereotypes, which I'm sure
we're gonna get into, where Ihave a lot of male friends in my
life who do not feel empoweredto have emotions. It's still

(15:20):
considered weakness.

Yep.

So today we're gonna open things up. George, I
wanna start with you. Why doesthis conversation matter to our
Beyond Your Default journey?

And I love that we're tying it to the
Beyond Your Default journey. Sohere's the thing, Liz and
listeners. It's simple yetcomplex all at the same time.
Like, to be honest with you, inmy brain, I'm like, well, it's
as easy as this, but it's ascomplicated as this over here.
Like, mental health, first ofall, your brain, like, your
operating system is thefoundation for your overall

(15:54):
well-being as a human.
It's the processing center. It'sthe thing that makes everything
possible as far as, like,movement and thought. And, man,
when our minds are healthy,like, we're definitely better
equipped to improve every otherarea of our lives from our
physical health to ourrelationships to our careers.

(16:16):
But I put on that when our mindsare healthy, when we have them
kinda clipping along and tickingthe way that we want them to or
they could or should. Andunderstanding and prioritizing
mental health, it's justessential to sustaining what
we're trying to achieve, whichis long term growth, happiness,
living beyond your default, andunderstanding that I I say,

(16:40):
like, on purpose, sustainablelong term growth because the
default or beyond your defaultjourney, it ain't short, ladies
and gentlemen.
Like, this is a long journey.Like, you're in it for the long
haul if you're listening to thispodcast and you're trying to
build something beyond what yourdefault settings were. And, Liz,
when I think of mental health, Ithink of keeping ourselves

(17:02):
strong mentally. And I thinkthat if I kinda, like, do the
onion thing that I like to dosometimes and and I go a couple
layers deeper to what I'll callcrucial mental areas that we
have to connect the dots to, isself awareness, which we've
talked a little bit here andthere on this podcast, as well
as emotional intelligence. Bybeing aware of our mental

(17:26):
health, we gain insights intoour own thoughts, our own
feelings, our own behaviors.
And, again, we've talked aboutthe importance of this kind of
self imported or projected,like, feedback loop. Well, if
we're clouded, if we'redisconnected, if we don't have
this self awareness and thisemotional intelligence, this

(17:48):
becomes somewhat difficult. Andso this self awareness is vital
for making informed decisions inour lives, for managing the
stress that's gonna happen inour lives, for navigating life's
challenges. And trust me, try asyou might during this Beyond
Your Default journey. Thosechallenges are gonna come.
Like, it's not if they come.It's when they come. And so on

(18:10):
this beyond your defaultjourney, you need to be, and
I'll use the word, resilient.And I think resiliency is, like,
a key aspect of what we'retrying to build or unlock in a
lot of the listeners orcommunity members. Along the
way, life throws us unexpectedtwists, turns, setbacks.

(18:31):
And, you know, it's not just us.You can look in history, and you
can see this conversation of,like, emotional health,
emotional well-being, selfawareness, emotional
intelligence. Like, an exampleis take Winston Churchill. He
often referred to his depressionas his black dog. And despite
his battles with mental health,he led through the darkest

(18:54):
hours.
He was a leader through WorldWar 2 with resilience and what
you might call determination.Like, even look at Abraham
Lincoln, who, if you do any typeof, like, historical research,
suffered from severe depression.Used to struggle with to
develop, like, deep empathy forothers, which then informed his

(19:14):
leadership during the civil war.Like, sometimes we wanna have
this conversation, like, themental health that we deal with
can't be actually used for goodon the other side of what we've
actually had to dig through. Andso, by the way, in my younger
years, as I'm sitting here doingthis podcast, man, I may have

(19:35):
been really emotionallyunstable.
I might have really needed atherapist. I might have really
had things mentally mixed up,but was just so ignorant, so not
self aware, so not emotionallyintelligent because I hadn't
been building myself in thatdirection yet. That now where I
sit is why I sit where I sitbecause I had to go through what

(19:59):
I'll lovingly call maybe my darkages. Right? Now I still love
myself back then.
That was a lot of work. I stillembrace who I was back then
because that makes me a wholehuman. But, like, sometimes I
think we can go through theissues of mental health and not
even maybe know that we've gonethrough the issues of mental
health. And and so a solidmental health foundation, again,

(20:22):
gives us the resilience tobounce back from adversity,
which I have done multipletimes. Liz, you've done multiple
times.
It helps us, this resilience,adapt to change. By the way,
humans listening to this podcastand aliens, if there are any
listening, change is gonnahappen. It's gonna happen. Okay?
And if you if I just woke you upbecause I talked about aliens,

(20:45):
boom.
Like, now it's come on. Let'sget back into the podcast. But
also pursuing our goals despitethe obstacles that are going to
arise. This, like, this is whyresilience make sure that our
journey beyond the default issustainable. It helps us
maintain motivation.
It gives us perseverance evenwhen things get tough, and they

(21:06):
do get tough. Now if I switchgears for a second and I think
about because this was like selfawareness, resilience, but I
wanna dive a little bit deeperinto that developing emotional
intelligence side of this. And,again, if you've listened to
this podcast for any length oftime, you know that one of my
favorite words, one of thethings that I've really embraced
in my older years is this ideaof empathy or, you know,

(21:29):
empathizing with with others.And and developing emotional
intelligence allows us toactually have that empathy or
empathize with others. I eventhink that emotional
intelligence, which is funny tokinda think about because,
again, in my later years, Ifocused on being, like, a
communication expert, like, agreat communicator, a world

(21:50):
class communicator, whether I'mstepping on stage or doing a
podcast or, like, just hangingout even with friends, like and
this emotional intelligencehelps us communicate more
effectively, which then helps usbuild stronger relationships,
which, again, all of these arekind of core principles of
living a life beyond yourdefault.

(22:10):
But building that emotionalintelligence is only possible if
you stay mentally healthy or canget through the ish and get to
the point where you might thinkthat you're mentally healthy,
which by the way, I don't thinkthere's ever perfect mental
health. We are always kind ofdealing with something even when

(22:31):
we think we're not. But there'sthis quote by Dan Millman, and
he once said, you don't have tocontrol your thoughts. You just
have to stop letting themcontrol you. Oh.
Liz, I needed a minute with thatone. I needed a minute with that
because I reflected back to myyounger years where I was like,
oh, yeah, bro. Bro, you werejust like the brain was the

(22:54):
leash, and you were the dog.Like, you were being led by,
like, these just randomthoughts. When I think about the
being led and I think about therelationships that I just
mentioned a moment ago, we needa supportive community along the
way on this journey, which,again, I think for me beyond

(23:15):
your default community, yourfriends, your family, whoever it
is that you're actually able togather around you to have those
relationships.
Because here's the thing, andwe're talking about the stigma.
Right? The the issue of this isby discussing our struggles and
triumphs with our community,whether that's friends, family,

(23:38):
beyond your defaultaccountability part, whatever.
We create this environment whereothers feel safe. And right now,
I don't know how many peoplefeel safe about sharing their
experiences or seeking helparound mental health because,
again, and I'll talk about thisin a little bit, when I was
growing up, this whole jam, thiswhole conversation was
completely different.

(23:59):
But I wanna double down on ifyou don't have that community,
you need to focus on what thatcommunity looks like. 1 person,
2 people, 5 people, whatever.Because a community that
prioritizes mental health isgonna be a community that grows
together. They're gonna supporteach other. They're gonna be
focused on each other'swell-being collectively moving
forward and fulfilling thislife, fulfilling their purpose.

(24:23):
And and so that's what theBeyond Your Default community is
all about. A supportive group ofhumans living this life, living
this journey together. When weprioritize because, again,
historically, I don't think it'sbeen a priority. But when we
prioritize mental health, wealign more closely with our true
selves, and we can start to livepurposefully and passionately,

(24:47):
which, by the way, I say thosewords in the understanding that
historically, for me, living alife of purpose and living that
life passionately was difficult.Now I can tell you that almost
everything I try to do is withpurpose and is completely filled
with passion.
So this is, like, the before andthe after that I'm trying to

(25:10):
kinda get here. And so, Liz,back to your original question.
Why does this conversationmatter, and why does it
specifically matter to BeyondYour Default? Because it's the
cornerstone of well-being. It'sthe cornerstone of self
awareness.
It's the cornerstone ofcommunity, the cornerstone of

(25:30):
growth. And all of these things.We need to fuel ourselves as
humans and help keep our pathsemi straight. And and, listen,
Proverbs 423 reminds us, aboveall else, guard your heart for
everything you do flows from it.And I I have a new scripture for
everybody.
George 423 says, guard your mindas well. K? So, sure, guard your

(25:53):
heart, but guard your mind.Like, this this is something
that is so important for us tonot hide under this mask, for us
to focus on moving forward. Andthere's, this quote because you
put quotes in when we're gettingready to do this thing.
And I think it's MariskaHargitay.

It's Mariska Hargitay. She's the star of law
and order SVU.

Okay. Okay. Beautiful.

I'm glad you wondering, did a chick pick
these quotes? Yes.

It doesn't matter because this quote, it's
the answer to your question.Because the quote says, healing
takes time and asking for helpis a courageous step. If this is
masked, if there's a stigmaaround it, who has the courage
to actually ask for help. Thatto me is why it's important
because we have to shine a lighton this. We have to get people

(26:43):
talking about it.
We have to get people willing tohave the safe space to be able
to work on themselves mentallybecause so many positive ripples
will come out of that work. Thathard, but initial work.

So how has your relationship with mental health
evolved over the

Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. No.
No. No.

No. You

think you're gonna get off the hot seat? I'm
curious why you think it'simportant to the beyond your
default journey. Because here'sthe thing. They just listened to
a very skewed male perspectiveof a conversation around mental
health. They need to hear thefemale version of this.
Like, why do you think it'simportant?

Here's what I will say. I think we always get
into trouble when we genderanything.

Okay. Okay.

The fact that you said it underscores one of the
biggest challenges we have inmental health right now. It is
an inherently gendered thing inmany ways. I have so many male
friends of mine who do not feelempowered to discuss their
feelings. And one of my bestfriends is a guy, and we've
talked in the past about howthere's this 2 talking out of

(27:48):
both sides of your mouth when itcomes to what we talk to men,
particularly young men, aboutemotions, feelings, and mental
health. We want you to talk moreabout your feelings.
Be open with us. Ew. Why are youshowing weakness? Like, we ask
for these things, and then wereject them when they give it to
us, and then we wonder why theystruggle. So when I say the the

(28:09):
challenge we have, there arelots of challenges.
Like, this is not the only one.Gendering mental health
discussions, I think, is is ahuge problem.

Yeah.

And the fact that you brought that up shows that
even you and you are wise,you're not only one of my best
friends, you're a mentor ofmine, but even you still kind of
fall prey to that level ofthing.

Oh, yeah.

But when I think about why this is important, my
answer is pretty short. It itcan be encapsulated in a
statement and then it can bethen further challenged in terms
of where you are by a question.The quality of your thoughts
dictates the quality of yourlife. You're minding the store.
When it comes to your ownthoughts, you're gonna have a
bad time.

And I

know this from experience. And then you have to
challenge yourself. Am I copingor am I healing? Because those
are 2 very different things.

Yes. Yes.

I got really good at coping. Really, really good
at coping. But healing is anentirely different mechanism.

Oh, that's interesting. I think about my
own life and I'm, like, I have aPhD doctorate on coping.

Uh-huh.

You know? And and it's not mean. Yeah. It's
not until the last probably 5 to10 years that I would say that I
have an associate's degree inhealing. Oh, that's an inter oh,
coping versus healing might be afuture episode

inside your skull is the thing that's supposed to
help you do stuff. If it's notfunctioning and you're not
taking care of it, you're notgonna have a good time. Yeah.
Let's leave aside stigma, whichI understand is in the title of
this episode. Let's leave asidegender.
Let's leave aside all of thesquishy awful feelings we have
about going to therapy. Maybe, Idon't know, getting diagnosed or

(29:59):
something. Whatever. Set yourish aside. If you're not taking
care of your thoughts, they'regoing to take care of you and
it's not gonna be a friendlything.

Here's the interesting thing that you just
said that I wanna double clickon. You said that you might get
diagnosed with something. Andit's almost like with mental
health. If you get diagnosedwith something, you feel like
it's gonna be the end of theworld. I was diagnosed with high
blood pressure.
Guess what? Not the end of theworld. I was diagnosed with
rheumatoid arthritis. Guesswhat? Not the end of the world.

(30:30):
But it's funny because we'll goto the doctor for, like, these
physical things that, like, wecan fundamentally feel or see.
And, like, the diagnosis is justthe diagnosis, and then you need
to make these, like, changes inyour life. But when it comes to
mental health, it's like, forsome reason, it's been made to

(30:51):
be this, like, weird, scarything, and then I'll have a
label and nobody will love me.And that's just it's just
bullcrap.

Well, that's the thing though. Because I think
what happens is we start gettinginto cases of what our identity
is and how we perceive ouridentity.

Yeah.

But the reality is is, like, for the vast
majority, like, hi. Surprise,surprise. Yeah. ADHD. Liz, me.

Liz No.

Some gar I

Are you serious?

That's some hurtful shit right there, buddy.
Right there. That hurts.

I can only say it because I'm right there.

Right? No. No. But that's the thing. But that's
the thing.
It's like most of thesediagnoses means that, like, in
your very complex system, acouple chemicals are different.
Yeah. This is not an indictmentof your character. This is not
an indictment of yourcapabilities. It means you got a
little bit of extra this and alittle bit not enough of that.

Yeah. Or somebody rewired some wires that
didn't need to be wired the waythey were. But the cool thing
about that is you can rewirethem. Anyway, we'll dig into
that later.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So when we go
through today's conversation,this is what I want people to be
thinking about. Especially forthose of you go getters out
there, you probably have aworkout routine. Maybe you
listened to our morning routineepisode and thought getting up
at 4 AM and making your own goatmilk yogurt was a good idea and
that you

got some nice

case. Good for you. You know? Imagine what you
would be capable of if you putas much effort and energy and
focus the way you do on yourphysical body, the way you do on
your business, just on yourbrain.

Yeah.

Just on the quality of your thoughts. And
usually, it only has to be,like, for an hour, once a week,
once every other week. But we'llget into that. Those are my
thoughts there, George. Thequality of your thoughts
dictates the quality of yourlife.
It is up to you how much youtake care of them. But I would
highly suggest you take thisconversation seriously. Yeah.
And then you always have tochallenge yourself. Am I coping

(32:38):
or am I healing?
I'm getting off the hot seatnow. Let's go into your history,
George.

Yeah.

I wanna come back to that question. So how has
your relationship with mentalhealth evolved over the years,
George? Talk to me.

I mean, I'm still trying to get past goat
milk yogurt, but I'm like, do Iwanna try it or not? Listen.
Here's the deal. Like, myrelationship with the concept of
mental health has, I'll just usethe word, evolved significantly
over the years. When I wasyounger, mental health wasn't

(33:09):
something that we openlydiscussed.
1, I'm, like, 52 years old, soit was back in the day where it
just wasn't a thing. I knowwe're not really wanting to
genderfy it, but I'm a man. Andin and back in those days when
we didn't talk about it, wereally didn't talk about it if

(33:29):
you're a guy. Now here's thething. Because of this, there
was a lack huge lack ofawareness and a huge lack of
understanding to what it evenwas or meant.
I personally grew up absorbingwhat you could call, like, the
societal bias that viewed mentalhealth struggles as this, oh,

(33:53):
they're weak. They're just notright in the head. Like, I can
remember literally hearing thatstatement, which that statement
gives me such an ech moment whenI think about, oh, they're not
right in the head. Maybe you'renot right in the head. You
anyway, I'll I'll get off mypulpit here for a second.
But, honestly, it wasn't until Ibecame a pastor and embarked on

(34:15):
my journey of, like, personaland spiritual growth that I
truly recognize the importanceof mental health. And let me dig
a little bit deeper and explainwhy that is. When you're a youth
pastor or an associate pastor,there's this interesting thing
that happens. People come to youwith their problems, and you
need to talk to them about theirproblems and help them with

(34:37):
their problems. What'sinteresting is sometimes even
when I'm helping people withHubSpot or Business or Beyond
Your Default, I go back to mypastor days where I get a lot of
people asking me questions thatI need to help and help them
unpack.
As a pastor or even now, I'verealized I can only carry so

(34:59):
many other people's stuff beforeI need to pack the stuff that
they've given me mentally toactually work through. And
that's not even counting my ownstuff. As somebody who coaches
or pastors or allows people inwhen I was a pastor, I was like,
man, I might need a therapistjust to talk about other

(35:19):
people's ish with somebody, letalone talk and I've even gotten
to the point now where I'velooked at my daughters, and I've
looked at my wife. And by theway, if you historically ask
them, would dad ever go totherapy, they would laugh in
your face and be like, dad's notthat kinda guy. I've come to the
table and said, I'd be more thanhappy to go to therapy.

(35:40):
Fundamentally, I realized that Iprobably need somebody way
smarter than me to help mediagnose some of these things
that are happening in my brain.But it wasn't until, like, I
started to get what I'll callthis, like, overload as a pastor
and sometimes this overload as,like, you know, professional or
personal coach or whatever youwanna call it. But I started to

(36:03):
understand that mental health isjust as crucial, if not more
crucial, than physical health,which, again, we're gonna talk
about next week. But seekinghelp around this, it has to be
proactive. We have to envisionit as empowering.
We have to think of it as stepsforward to our better

(36:23):
well-being. At least I,personally, because we're
talking about my journey here, Ihave to see it as this proactive
thing versus, historically,dude, quit being a wimp. Quit
being weak. I have to think ofit as it's by me embracing the
vulnerability of it isempowering. Right?
Because I don't care if youlabel me. I need to label me

(36:47):
better. I need to think of mebetter. I need to move me to the
next step. And if your label ishow you want to address or think
of me, fine.
Because you know what? Iprobably won't even pay
attention to that label. Right?And so today, I see and I think
it's because also I don't travelthis world alone. I have a

(37:10):
pretty good set of friends.
I have, if you count the dogs, avery large family, because
there's 8 dogs. Let's just saythat. And then multiply that
with kids and a wife andparents. Like, I don't do life
alone, so I see mental healthas, like, a massively important
part of living a full life. Andit is my dreams and hopes that

(37:31):
everybody around me, family,friends, would be living a
fulfilling life, would be livinga full life.
And so at this point, I activelywork on trying to maintain my
mental health. Liz, it's funnybecause we keep coming back to
this other episode that I wasuneasy with in different podcast

(37:52):
episodes. But, like, a way thatI have to do this in a way that
I'm learning to do this isthrough self care, taking the
time, taking the moments,writing the things down, but
also being willing to have openconversations where, again,
words that I thought would nevercome out of my mouth. Hey. I'm
more than open to going totherapy.
Like, that's me again opening upin ways that, historically, I

(38:14):
would have been like, I'm justgonna shut up now because I
don't wanna be judged as a manwho would say that to get a
label put on them. I have toask, why is there such a social
stigma around mental health?That's the question. Right?
Like, I start to lean into iswhy why?
Anyway, that's my journey,Bliss. But what about your

(38:36):
journey through this wholething?

It's fascinating to hear how differently we are
coming at this because, I'll behonest, therapy has been a part
of my life ever since I was veryyoung. So I was very lucky in
that even though it wasn'tterribly popular at the time, I
was able to get diagnosed atwith ADD at a younger age. So

(38:59):
that brought mental health muchmore into my life, I think,
earlier than a lot of people didbecause back that it was it was
the early eighties. So we hadn'tgotten to the point where kind
of there's definitely anoverdiagnosis of it now, and I
think that contributes some tothe stigma. You know, if is your
kid not sitting still longenough?
Throw some pills at them. Right?And I and and that frustrates me
just on a personal note, on on avery deeply personal level

(39:22):
because what it does is iterodes the credibility of any
diagnosis, which makes it harderfor people who actually have it
to get treatment. You know? Sothe there are the social stigmas
that have emerged obviouslybecause of you know, for a long
time, mental health was notsomething you talked about.
Right? You just if you were youwere Irish, you repressed it
until you died. You're like it'sjust like Oh. That it was

(39:44):
treated as hysteria. Like, thereare a lot of different ways in
which mental health for both menand women or however you
identify has been extremelytoxic and not exactly welcoming.
I mean, just as a society, weare not as evolved as I think we
think we are.

Mhmm.

Because, you know, particularly for people my
age, people your age, like, wehave some idea of what it was
like for our parents, but notreally.

Yeah.

So, like, for example, postpartum depression.
This is something that a lot ofwomen deal with after pregnancy.
This is only something that isnow being recognized.

Yep.

And even now, I still have, female friends of
mine who have struggled with andpostpartum depression is
diabolically dark. It is a scarything to go through. It is a it
is a wide spectrum of symptomsthat people deal with when they
are coming out of a pregnancy,and they're still so often not
taken seriously. So there are alot of reasons why this gets

(40:39):
really, really messy. But I hadthis in my life starting when I
was fairly young.
The other piece of this too isand and it's hard to speak to
this without being direct aboutit. So and this is always an
area of my life where I'vebrought this up on previous
episodes. It always makes me alittle uncomfortable, but if
you're willing to getuncomfortable, so will I. So I
grew up in a pretty abusivehousehold. Mental health is

(41:01):
something that has been verypresent in my life because it is
something I've had to know a lotabout.
There were people in my familywho not only struggled, for
example, with bipolar disorder,there were prescription drug
abuse problems that were thenfurther compounded by alcohol.
This was not a great incubatorfor how I grew up.

Right.

And what was interesting is that I later
learned that the therapist I wasseeing who was very insistent
that I kept seeing them, Ialways thought it was because
there was something wrong withme. And it it was because I was
dealing with divorce and, like,things like that. My parents
divorced when I was

relatively young.

Yeah. The therapist later confided in my
father that part of the reasonwhy he had been so insistent
that I remain in therapy withhim is that he could never quite
identify it, but he was prettysure I was living in an abusive
household. Way of keeping mekind of, like Yeah.

In a spot. Interesting.

So what's interesting is here's is how is
my relationship with mentalhealth has evolved. I've been
having some very interestingconversations recently about my
own mental health, about my ownpath of spirituality, you know,
a bunch of different things thathave really led me to kind of
coalesce around this idea that Imentioned before, which is the
quality of the thoughts and thequality of your mind. I grew up

(42:15):
watching someone I love justcompletely just gone. You know?
That this person grew up at atime when these were things that
were not discussed.

Yeah.

When these were things that were not managed.
This was also there weregenerational issues. This was
not a first time abuser. Thiswas generational abuse that had
been going on and on and on. Iwish I could say looking back
that, you know, when I was at myhighest level of cope, that the
choices I made to continuesticking with these types of
things was coming from some sortof evolved place around, well, I

(42:50):
have to make sure of the qualityof my mind.
I have to make sure I stick withthis because of this, that, and
the other. And the reality isthat's not true. What I will say
though is looking back and alsowhat my relationship is now with
my own mental health, is thatthe my greatest fear has always
been losing my mind. Because Iwatched it happen. I watched
someone look at a part ofthemselves in the mirror one day

(43:10):
and refuse to ever acknowledgeit again.
And because of that, theypunished the world for the thing
they could not punish themselvesfor. And that is a very hard
thing to live in the shadow of.Because when someone makes a
decision like that consciouslyor subconsciously to disavow a
portion of themselves, anytimethat portion is agitated or

(43:31):
somebody else brings it up, itbecomes your problem. And that
was kind of my reality for about15 to 20 years. And then I
watched this person have acouple of psychotic breaks,
actually lose touch withreality.
And I ended up having to be sentto live with my father because
of something that happened whenI was, about 14 or 15 years old.

(43:51):
And so I've always beenterrified. I remember when I was
in my late teens, early to midtwenties, I started worrying, is
there a bomb in my brain that'sgonna go off? Am I also going to
have a similar diagnosis neveremerged. Sometimes it'll skip a

(44:17):
generation.
And even if I had it, you know,that my story is my story to
write. I don't want anybody toinfer that I am sitting here
today going, oh, thank godbecause that's the only reason
I'm not a total fruitcake.Right? Like, that's not that's
not it at all. But when I was18, 19, 20 through, like, 25, I
was constantly living in fearthat my own mind was going to
betray me.
And today, I think it sometimesleads to me to be a lot harder

(44:39):
on myself. The way I takefailures that I believe that I
perpetrate, I take them as,like, deep, irrevocable
character flaws. And that'ssomething I'm still working
through because I'm overreacting. If I don't hold myself
blindly and insanelyaccountable, I'll become her.
And I can't live that way.

(45:00):
So Yeah. My relationship withmental health has always been,
quite frankly, very fear based,but I will say I think my
overcorrection did save me alittle bit. And also going to
live with my dad really helped.Like, my mom and my dad could
not have been more different. Ido not know how they were
together for 10 years, let alonefor the 10 minutes required to,
like, make me real.
Like, I don't know how thishappened because I don't even

(45:22):
remember ever seeing them in thesame room together. But I had a
couple of formative years withhim that were really helpful
before I moved out when I was19. I had an example of a
healthy relationship between himand my stepmom that was served
as a really good model for me,and it got a little bit of
deprogramming in.

Yeah.

But it was years before I kinda balanced out. And
and even now, like, I've had tolearn, like, it's okay to make
mistakes, Liz. Like, that's thething is, like, I'm constantly,
like, running into things whereit's like, shit. I thought I was
over this. I told you aboutthis.
I told you with this. There wassomething that happened so,
obviously, I'm to force now.There was a moment when I was

(46:00):
talking with my therapist wheneverything was falling out, and
I thought there were certainaspects of my behavior as a
victim of abuse that were behindme. Like, I thought it was very
much, like, past tense stillworking through it and then to
realize it was still very muchin front of me. Very much in
front of me.
Very much all around me. Verymuch present. It kinda feels
like fun house mirrors.Sometimes it's kinda hard to get
a beat on it. You know, thetarget is always moving.

(46:23):
But my relationship has alwaysstarted as fear. Yeah. My
biggest fear was becoming I'llbe honest, was becoming my mom.
And it kills me to say thatbecause she was probably also
one of the most beautiful,wildly intelligent, brilliant
people. She's the reason I'minspired by art and music.
She taught me to appreciate somuch of this world around me. So
my relationship with her wascomplex. And I but I'm an adult.

(46:46):
I can hold 2 thoughts in myhead. Like, I love her.
I'm not sure I would have everhad a different mother. Like, I
can't I'd I'm I wouldn't pick 1.There's a lot of pain in that
relationship, a lot of pain andtrauma in that relationship.

It's interesting because to hear you
talk, I had this epiphanymoment, and then I had this
really sad moment too. Let meexplain. So the epiphany moment
was when you're talking aboutyour mom originally, and I was
like, oh, oh, this is this iswhy Liz is so focused on showing
up as a whole ass human. Becausewhen you pull away parts of you,

(47:20):
she's she's seen that happen. Soit gave me a whole new, like,
perspective or idea to, like,that call to arms that you bring
to the conversation with, like,thought leaders and folks that
you're helping.
The sad moment I had was therealization of the amount of
years that I self medicated withthe bottle and realizing that

(47:45):
while I was self medicating, itmight have been detrimental to
my parents and what they thoughtof me and where I was and their
hopes and dreams for who I wouldbecome. I definitely know that
my self medication of the bottlehas to have impacted my children
because they were at a youngage, and we were just trying to

(48:08):
make it by and make the best ofit. And I'm glad I'm not there
anymore. Like, I'm glad I don'tneed a drink to make it through
the day or to make it throughthe week or to make it through
the weekend. I mean, actually,I'm to the point where, like, I
barely even drink anymore.
But knowing that there was thistime in my life, and I say

(48:29):
bottle, but just know, ladiesand gentlemen, sometimes it was
the bottle, sometimes it wasother stuff. Like, there was
this younger George who was justtrying to cope and definitely
wasn't trying to heal. So firstof all, this is a public apology
to anybody who knew me back inthe day. I'm sorry, and I'm

(48:49):
trying to do better.

All I will say well, 2 things. 1, George, as
someone who grew up in that kindof household, that is a level of
self awareness I never heardexpressed. So the fact that
you're even expressing that,that is a different
stratosphere. So it therethere's no correlation there.
There is no one to onecomparison, and I think all of
us go through different and forsome people, we all give into
coping addictive behaviors, andthey show up in different ways.

(49:13):
Like, for some people, it mightbe the body a little bit. I also
know people who will punishtheir body working out over and
over and over again as a way tocontrol. So, like, our
mechanisms for cope and controlwhen it comes to our own mental
health, it is it is a widespectrum. The other thing I will
say is that, well, I love thekind words of what you said
about a whole ass human. If wewanna go somewhere really deep
and really vulnerable, that'skind of true, but that's not

(49:34):
totally where it came from.
But you're in the rightballpark. It's something I don't
talk about.

I'm at the hot dog stand, just not in the
bleachers.

Yeah. Exactly. But we're gonna get you to your
seat here in just a second. Theidea of a whole ass human for
people who are not familiar isthat you have to show up as your
whole ass self. I wrote aboutthis in the newsletter, beyond
yourdefault.comforward/newsletter.
We talk about this idea of wehave to accept the quote unquote
contradictions within. Becausethat's our whole how our whole
universe is built. Polarities,opposites, and balance. Right?

(50:04):
So a lot of people will rejectparts of themselves because they
believe that they can only be aspecific way.
We live in a world that leavesvery little room for acceptance
of differences andcontradictions, which is
completely antithetical to whatit means to be a human. You
know, if we wanna use, like, afun example, like, I will sit
there and go hard and talk aboutniche opera. Like, I can sit

(50:27):
there and have hours longdebates about Mozart and
Beethoven, and then I will turnaround and say, I'm sorry. Did
someone just say a disparagingword against the Fast and the
Furious franchise?

Oh, yeah. Let's go.

I don't care if we have issues with Tokyo Drift.
It took the franchiseinternational, and without it,
we don't have Han. I don'tunderstand why we're having a
conversation here. Right? Like,we're allowed to be complex
individuals who likecontradictory things.
One of my favorite people I evercoached, he was this ultimate
Frisbee guy, total bro, in theair force, just really super,
like, alpha male macho dude andhad, like, another, like,

(51:00):
amazing badass wife. Like, theywere just, like, power couple.
And one of my favorite factsabout him is that he was one of
the biggest Taylor Swifts fan Ihad ever met every single one of
her albums on vinyl. And he waslike, no. But she's an
incredible songwriter.
Let's talk about this.

We're gonna

talk about evermore and folklore. I'm like,
you need to talk about thismore. This is what makes you
interesting. This is what bringsdimension to your personality.
So where did this come from?
I was an only child of 2 onlychildren living and growing up
in an abusive household, whichis an incredibly isolating way
to live because you can't havefriends, you can't have people
over. I had an absentee problembecause I usually had to stay

(51:35):
home to take care of my mom. Iwas incredibly isolated. I was
also like, let's be honest. I'mweird.
I'm 6 feet tall. Like, I havenever quite fit in. I am someone
who has always stood out from avery young age. I also had very
eclectic interests. I rememberone time I got bullied in school
because we were putting on, Ithink it was Snow White or The
Wizard of Oz, and I didn't wantto be the princess.

(51:57):
I wanted to be the witch. Mhmm.And, like, I got made fun of
mercilessly for years like that.So I spent a lot of time feeling
very alone. I spent a lot oftime not being listened to
because when you grow up in anabusive household, no one's
listening to you.
Yep. Which then created a bunchof habits where I didn't show
myself and then it made itharder for me to connect to
people. My sole purpose on thisearth is that I know what it

(52:20):
feels like to not be seen orheard or understood, but we live
in a world that criminalizespeople for showing themselves.

I love this so much.

I don't think that's fair and I don't think
that's right. So when I wheredoes a whole ass human come
from? I have spent so many yearsallowing myself to be penalized
for being different. And I maystill end up being a lonely
person. Like, I don't know ifI'll get remarried.
I don't know if I'll have kids.Like, my my whole we're giving
it up to God. It's not my planright now. But if I am able to

(52:54):
empower others to feel more seenin their own lives and loved for
who they truly are instead of aversion of themselves that they
believe they have to be in orderto be palatable,

Yes.

Every pain, every moment of agony, even my own
loneliness becomes worth it.

Yeah. You know what? What's funny is, first of
all, I love all of that. 2nd ofall, I know you'll be okay. You
know how I know you'll be okay?
Because the words that came outof your mouth, it's not my plan
right now. No. It's his plan.And that is a switch that when
you flip in your brain and trustme, I've lived this. The

(53:31):
repercussions, ramifications,and amazing life that comes
after that brain switch areredonkulous.
So just hold on because it'sgonna get amazing.

Well, so I know we've already touched on some of
this, but I wanna dig a littlebit deeper to see if you had any
other thoughts here. We've spenta lot of time talking about, you
know, at least for ourselves andwhat we perceive in the world,
what we believe the stigmas areand why they exist around mental
health. But what do you think ofthat social stigma today?

This feeling, this approach to mental health,
I think it has what I'll calldeep roots in, one,
misunderstanding. I could dodeep dives in Beethoven and Bach
and Fast and Furious. Like, notmany. I won't say any, but not
many people are doing deep divesin understanding what in God's
name mental health even means orhow it shows itself. So I think

(54:24):
there's this huge just level ofmisunderstanding because we're
not educating ourselves on it.
You mentioned for your own life,and I think this would be for
any of the listeners or any ofthe humans on this planet, I
think it's rooted in fear, Fearfor those around us, fear for
ourselves. I mean, listen. Forfor a long time, mental health
issues, they just weren'tunderstood. They weren't

(54:46):
diagnosed. You talked aboutthis, like, the baby blues and,
like, ADHD and, like, they justweren't things.
And like we mentioned earlier

Stearia.

Yeah. And even when they weren't known, they
were viewed through this, like,lens of weakness, like we
mentioned earlier, or evenworse, like, this moral failing.
Like, oh, well, what did they dowrong, or what did their
grandma's grandpa do wrong thatthey were, like, given this,
like, curse? It's not what it'sabout. And I think this has kind
of created this culture whereand I'm speaking a little bit

(55:18):
from myself.
I'm speaking a little bit frompeople that I know in my life.
Like, it's created this, like,ability to feel ashamed and this
ability to feel afraid to eventalk about mental health
struggles that they have ordiagnosis that they have been
given because they're in thisconstant fear of judgment, this

(55:40):
constant fear of discrimination.And I think as much as it's
gotten better I mean, there'sbeen significant strides over
the last 5, 10, 15 years versus,like, when I was a younger lad
or even a child. Or if I thinkabout my parents' generation,
holy crap. Like, actually, we'veprobably made massive strides

(56:02):
compared to my parents'generation.
But here's the thing. What'sfunny is because I did a little
research on this, Liz. It wasn'ttill, like, the early 20th
century when mental illness,like, even started to get
treated or understood or talkedabout or there became, like, a
profession around it. And so Ithink it was doctor Albert Ellis

(56:25):
and doctor Aaron t Beck thatstarted to talk about this,
like, cognitive behavioraltherapy, and it began to reshape
t. Yeah.
It it began to reshape thisunderstanding of the brain and
treatment around mental healthissues. So we have to think
about just in that generalityof, like, on the timeline of,

(56:48):
like, the universe, like, thisis relatively, like, a baby
concept that and by the way,when you're a baby, you're
trying to learn how to talk.You're trying to learn how to
walk. You're, like, learningeverything new for the first
time. And so I think part ofwhat this is is to not, like,
beat down our society or beatdown the humans on the planet
is, like, we're just trying tolearn how to walk and talk and,

(57:11):
like, navigate this thing as itbeing kind of a baby of items.
And and so some part of me islike, well, while I hate what
has happened historically, like,sometimes, and we've talked
about this on the podcast, youhave to go through the ish to
get to the success ofunderstanding the ish. And and
so, like, I I wanna go kindaless global and all humans for a

(57:35):
second because I think on anindividual level, this stigma
that we're talking about, fear,being ashamed, it prevents
people. It has prevented Georgefrom seeking the help that
people they or George he mayhave needed or needs. And this
is where the issue happensbecause this can be a decline in

(57:58):
their or my overall well-beingover time because of a refusal
to get the 1 on 1 help that weneed. Where we're at now, I
think, again, is a better placethan where we have been, but
anything that perpetuatesignorance and fear on a one to
one level or a societal level,anything that creates a barrier

(58:20):
to what is needed, which is openand supportive conversations, it
it's not good.
Right? And so we have to have,at our fingertips, the belief
that we can change, the beliefthat we can get the help.
Because, by the way, when webelieve something, it changes
our behavior around it.

Thoughts dictate reality.

Yeah. If you're somebody, which by the
way, I I can't take credit forthis. I literally was listening
to an entire sermon that theconcept was around we behold, we
believe, we behave. In otherwords, we see something, we
believe that thing, andtherefore, we behave in a
certain way. We've seenhistorically mental health be

(59:08):
the evil villain of life.
Therefore, we believe thatmental health is the evil
villain of life. Therefore, webehave in a way that doesn't
give the freedom to talk aboutthe villain that might be
destroying their life. Right?So, like, when you start to put
it in that context, now we haveto rethink what we're seeing so

(59:31):
that we can reevaluate what webelieve, and we as individual
humans or a community can behavein a different way. That's
kinda, like, my general thoughtson, like, where we're at, why,
how we might actually slightlyrethink or reimagine or
recommunicate this stuff.

(59:51):
But if you are a person dealingwith this, share your stories.
Normalize health discussions. Ifyou're a person that doesn't
necessarily deal with this alot, show empathy. Together, by
people sharing their stories andother people showing empathy,
like, we're gonna be able tochip away at this thing and make
it better over time. Because,again, if you walked around with

(01:00:14):
a gaping wound in the center ofyour chest, people would look at
you like, why aren't you gettingthat fixed?
But many of us are walkingaround with gaping wounds in our
brain, and everybody's actinglike they can't see it, which is
crazy to me.

Liz Moorehead (01:00:30):
Yeah. The other thing I will say too, just to
add a little bit of color tothis, is that when we talk about
mental health, it's not thatwe're necessarily guilty of
this, George, but, like, thinkabout the tenor of this
conversation. So this isintense. This is heavy. We're
talking about very deep topics.
But mental health also canliterally just be mindfulness.
It can be making sure thatyou're nurturing relationships

(01:00:52):
and and being mindful of whoyou're spending time with and
where you're giving your energyto. Mental health is, I think,
sometimes stigmatized becausewhile there are these heavier
pieces to it, while this doesrequire us to ask ourselves
challenging questions like, areyou coping or are you healing? I
think also it's just becausethere's always a heaviness to
it. When mental health canliterally just be like you're

(01:01:14):
doing something for you, it canbe self care.
Anything that that enables youto take care of the quality of
your thoughts, which dictatesthe quality of your life because
what you think is how you act.For example, if you don't think
you're good enough, you will actconsciously and subconsciously
in ways that put out into theworld, I am not good enough.
Consciously and subconsciouslyin ways that put out into the
world, I am not good enough. Anexample of that, you won't go
for certain opportunitiesbecause you don't think you're

(01:01:36):
good enough. You won't speak asconfidently because you don't
think your ideas are goodenough.
You will assume the worst intentwhen people interact with you in
a way that you perceive as athreat. Right? So when we say
we're not talking about some woowoo manifestation BS with it.
Right. That stuff is true, butit's based in very deep simple

(01:01:56):
psychology.

George B. Thomas (01:01:57):
Yeah.

If you believe you are broken, you will act
broken. And if you act broken,the world will treat you as
broken. Like, it's very simplestuff. Right? So that's where
this gets really important isthat, like, you know, you are
not a broken down, bustedperson.
Anybody listening right now whois relating to anything that
we're taught, we're just humanshaving a human experience, man.
We're all just trying to figurethis out. And we're living in a

(01:02:19):
deeply complicated world wherewe're only just starting as a
society to accept that, hey,brains are squishy little weird
things and life is really hard.Maybe you should start being
nicer to like, it is it is avery challenging time where we
are both simultaneously beingmuch more open minded about
things, but we're also living ina time that in many ways we feel

(01:02:41):
more divided.

Yeah. And then put this conversation not to
take us sideways in the world ofbusiness owners,
entrepreneurials.

Oh, god.

It's a pressure cooker. And we wonder
why the statistics of, like,people deciding to, like, check
out are, like, rapidly rising.Well, because you're putting
yourself in a pressure cookerand not having the conversations
that need to be had around justlike, Alyssa, it's your squishy
little brain in there.

Yeah. Your brain can do a lot of things, But it
is a muscle that can getoverworked, underworked,
atrophied. Like, you have mindthe shop. Make sure you know
what's going on in there. So butthere's another piece to this
too.
Right? There's another piece ofthis and that is technology and
social media. And I would loveto get your thoughts, George, on
where you see the impact ofthose mechanisms on mental

(01:03:30):
health. And do you have anyboundaries you set for yourself
with

that? Yeah. This was the question that was
like, oh, so Liz wants me totalk about how terrible I am
around, like, technology andsocial media. I definitely this
is a place where I will say Iwant to I don't wanna use the
word wish because that's weaklanguage, but I want to get
better at some of the things.Again, we've said this jokingly,

(01:03:54):
but in all honesty of, like, weare the petri dish of, like,
trying to do the things thatwe're talking about in this.
But, like, the impact oftechnology and social media on
mental health, Liz, I honestlythink it's a double edged sword.
K? On one hand, these tools canconnect us. They can provide

(01:04:15):
support, offer previouslyinaccessible resources to us as
humans. They can be, I'll callit lifelines in times of need,
helping us feel less alone andfeeling more informed.
However, they also come withsignificant downsides. The
constant barrage ofnotifications. And trust me, I

(01:04:37):
am that human that I have toclear all the little red dots
with all the numbers on myphone. Or I have to, like, try
to achieve inbox 0, which is animpossibility. But there's Slack
and email and mobilenotifications, and, oh my god,
the pressure to present aperfect life because of these
technologies, the endlesscomparisons that we do because

(01:05:02):
everybody's posting theirfreaking highlight reel, and we
wonder why our life isn't atthat level.
All of that can lead to anxiety,depression, and maybe even
worse, like, this feeling orbelief in being inadequate
compared to the rest of what'shappening around us. Social

(01:05:22):
media, again, has this abilityto be positive or hypercritical.
The amount of real timeinformation, real or not real,
but real time information. Andthe amount of times that we're
having conversations where, oh,I saw a thing. Oh, that's nice.

(01:05:44):
Glad you saw a thing. Did yousource the thing? Like, because
just because you saw a thingdoesn't mean that it's real or
real time information that youshould be putting in your brain.
Right? So, like, the amount ofinformation ingested you talked
about how you can overwork yourbrain.

Mhmm.

Holy social media. Holy highlight reel. Holy
real time information andoverworking your brain. But I do
wanna kinda divide these topicsin 2 for a second because I
wanna talk about technology byitself, especially around this
conversation, and social media alittle bit by itself. So

(01:06:23):
technology, our digital deviceskeep us always connected.
But, again, this constantconnection can cause anxiety,
depression, and a big one thatmay happen for a lot of folks.
I've had historical issues withthis. I try to put things in
place where maybe it doesn'taffect me as much, and I even am
gonna give myself a call toaction here live on the podcast

(01:06:44):
to, like, dramatically changethe way that I do something in
the evening. What I'm getting tois our devices can cause sleep
problems.

And just a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. And if we're not getting proper sleep,
that that's not helping anyway.A study by Bradley University
links too much screen time tothese issues. Right? The
constant need to be plugged incan overwhelm and exhaust us as
humans, exhaust us mentally.
However, and I mentioned they'redouble edged swords, technology

(01:07:15):
also has excellent benefits,especially in today's
conversation with mental healthcare. Like, therapy is a key
resource, and offering mentalhealth services to people in
remote areas or those thatprefer online sessions, it's
made mental health support moreaccessible and convenient.
Platforms like the big whitewall have been very effective

(01:07:38):
with yes. I search stats. I knowI'm not usually a big stats guy,
ladies and gentlemen, on thispodcast.
But with 95% of users reportingsymptom improvements, and,
again, this is based on thetechnology that enabled them to
be able to have the sessions.Like, these tools do allow us to
reach out and get help withoutbarriers that once existed for

(01:07:59):
many of us humans. But we haveto realize, how can I decrease
the bad side of technology, andhow can I increase the good side
of technology? In other words,how can I use it or control it
as a positive technology versusit being a coping mechanism?
TikTok, Reels, Facebook.

(01:08:21):
Are you using it to cope? Areyou using it to numb the pain?
Are you using it to waste time?Anyway, I'll leave that there.
Social media, because I'm kindadipping into this.
Again, it has its own unique setof impact. Social media can
create a sense of community andprovide emotional support if you
got the right humans attached asfriends or followers, but it

(01:08:42):
also makes people feelinadequate. And many times, I've
gone away from social media. Idon't know about you listeners
or list, but I've come away fromsocial media feeling more
isolated than I do connectedbecause I see everybody's
thought about everything underthe sun. And, sometimes I'm
like, I agree to disagree, and Idisagree.

(01:09:05):
But it's funny because a studyby MIT Sloan found that
Facebook's introduction tocollege campuses caused a 7%
increase in severe depressionand a 20% increase in anxiety
disorders among the students.Now that was at its
introduction. MIT Sloan do a newstudy and give me the stats

(01:09:25):
today. What Facebook or other,like, platforms do as far as
severe depression and anxiety.Part of me wants to believe that
the negative outweighs thepositive, but I also will come
back to I think that depends onthe human.
Like, if we can use the toolsand not have the constant
comparison with others, if wecan use the tools and not have

(01:09:49):
the famous FOMO or fear ofmissing out, if we can use the
tools and not fall prey to oneof the biggest disasters on the
planet that is cyberbullying,sweet, then these could be
positive tools. But listen. Allof what I just listed happens.
So we have to think toourselves. There's good and bad.

(01:10:11):
They're double edged swords.And, hopefully, or if there's
things that you just need tokill. This all goes back to our
brains, the chemicals in ourbrains. We're talking about

(01:10:32):
mental health. If we're talkingabout technology, if we're
talking about social media, thelikes, the comments, the little
red dots with the numbers, theinbox 0, all of this can feel
like a hit of pleasure, but theyalso tend to make us constantly
seek validation.

That sweet, sweet dopamine rush.

Yeah. Exactly. The thing about it though is if
you're getting high on your ownsupply of dopamine, ladies and
gentlemen, this can be drainingand super dangerous. Super,
super dangerous. So, again,understanding and acknowledging
the benefits and the risk oftechnology and social media can
help us hopefully navigate thedigital landscape more

(01:11:15):
effectively as we move forward,especially pertaining to this
conversation today that isaround mental health.
And and help us balance theadvantages of these tools while
lessening their potentialpitfalls is definitely where I
would wanna go. And I think youshould go back to our boundaries

(01:11:35):
podcast episode. Like, you'relistening to this, thinking
about this conversation onmental health. Now go back to
our boundaries episode and say,what do I need to do with this
conversation mixed with thatconversation as I move forward?

I love that. And this leads nicely into my next
question, but I I wanna doubleclick on a couple things you
said. You know, just beingreally mindful. And this I don't
think we're saying anything newhere to say, like, you should
really carefully examine yourrelationship with social media.
But, like, I really loved whatyou pointed out there about,
like, being very honest withyourself about why you're using
social media and what itspurpose is.
My relationship with socialmedia got a lot better the

(01:12:12):
moment I stopped looking at itas a personal tool. Now granted,
I work in marketing, so it's alittle bit easier for me, I
think, to do that. But forexample, I have a very active
TikTok presence. Like, it isbafflingly active because I
showcase parts of myself. Right?
But there is a purpose behindit. Right? I'm sharing some of
the writing that I'm for BeyondYour Default. I'm a big movie

(01:12:34):
nerd. Like, it is a platformwith a purpose.
I don't use it the way I used touse social media, which is to
make everybody think I have thisbeautiful fantastic life. Yeah.
I will tell you the mosthumbling thing that really
brought that into harsh relief,which is right after I got
divorced again last year. And Ihad to go through I didn't
delete everything, but Iarchived it. Neither of us

(01:12:54):
wanted to have just, like,constant plastered reminders of
photos of all of our memoriesand

4 years ago. Whee.

I know. I had to spend, like, hours archiving,
like, 10 years worth of stuff.And it made me realize, you
know, there are parts of my lifeI wanna showcase, a beautiful
sunset, great memories withfriends, but I've become a lot
more private. Social media hasbecome this weird thing where
people now act as if they havetheir own PR. Yeah.
Right? Like, big announcementsabout their lives, and there's

(01:13:23):
this expectation that we allcare about everything that's
going on. Everybody's like, Ilove you, my dear friends, but I
don't care that much.

Yeah.

I don't care that much. You know, you have
engagements and promposals and,like, everything has become a
lot more complicated andbroadcast. And at first, it was
an overreaction because I wentthrough kinda, like, hell on
earth last year and, you know,trauma is super fun and so is
divorce. But, like, I'm actuallyreally happy now that I'm in a
much more settled spot. I lovehaving my private life.

(01:13:52):
I love having my private life beprivate.

Yeah.

I think it's great. It makes me really happy.
Now do I sometimes get suckedinto capybara videos on TikTok?
I do. I do.
And I stay up too late watchingthem. But I love them because
they're so cute. They're justthey look so grumpy and happy,
and they're really good atnapping. But let's let's take a
step back further out. Right?

Yeah.

We've talked about boundaries and habits that
we set for ourselves on socialsocial media. But are are there
any habits or routines daily,weekly, monthly, or otherwise
that you really kinda dial inaround your mental health?

Yeah. So couple things. Not a lot, by the
way. And it's funny because whenI read this question, I was
like, oh, oh, wow. I couldprobably get better at this
right here.
But let's be honest, like,maintaining my mental health,
historically, has not alwaysbeen, like, a priority for me.
We already talked about coping.We always already talked about
the bottle. We we talked aboutthis transition from, like,

(01:14:45):
trying to heal and understandingthe the mental health of it over
time, but I have developed a fewhabits and routines that I think
have helped keep it in checkeven when I didn't know that
those routines were gonna helpkeep it in check, if that makes
sense. Sometimes, like, you canjust get lucky, but in
hindsight, you realize lucky wasby divine design to help you get

(01:15:10):
where you needed to go.
And so these I'm using this wordloosely because of your
question. These routines, airquotes, if you're just listening
to this, I'd say they've evolvedas I've learned more about what
works best for me and adapted tochanging circumstances in my
life. And I'm giving thisprecursor list because,

(01:15:31):
listeners, this is a lot likethe morning routine episode that
we had this portion right herelike that episode. I can share
mine all day long, but you haveto make your own. Like, this has
to be your thing to help youwith the mental health stuff
that you're going through.
So so but here's the thing. Acouple of things. In the

(01:15:51):
morning, I I try to start withgratitude. Every morning, I take
a few minutes, a few seconds.Maybe it's a half an hour.
It just depends, like, what moodI'm in, but I try to reflect on
what I'm grateful for. By theway, it might be that I just
freaking woke up another day,like, to be honest with you, or
it might be that I'm excited todo something that day from,

(01:16:11):
like, a work perspective or afamily perspective. But having a
positive tone for the day helpsme focus on the good things in
my life. I love Psalms 11824 andthis realization and tying it to
being positive. And and, again,I know some of you listeners may
or may not be spiritual orreligious, and you might be

(01:16:32):
wondering, like, sometimes, whydo I, like, pop these scriptures
out?
But I think this one justfundamentally makes sense no
matter who the heck you are. Andif the word Psalms 11824 is too
much for you to handle, thenforget that I said that part
because the scripture is this isthe day that the Lord has made.

(01:16:53):
Here's the key piece. Let usrejoice and be glad in it. I
have another day to do thethings that I love.
I have another day to be withthe people that I love. I have
another day to build ripples andrejoice and be glad and be
positive. So start withgratitude in the morning. And if

(01:17:15):
you like to journal, write itdown. If you don't, then just do
it in your brain.
If you need an app to help you,then find the Grateful Day app.
I don't like, do what you gottado. Again, make make it yours.
The other piece is that having,like, mindful moments or mindful
movement even. So, like, one ofthe things that I've been loving

(01:17:35):
lately over the last three and ahalf, almost 4 months, is, like,
moving my body in the morning.
It wakes me up, and it boosts mymood. And so I've learned to,
like, connect this with a thing.So I'll literally come into my
office, and for about the firsthalf an hour to an hour,
depending on what my day lookslike, I will walk on my walking
treadmill while I open upYouTube, and I watch some

(01:17:57):
motivational or inspirationalvideo and listen to it at the
same time. So I'm mentally beingmindful, and I'm maximizing that
with movement at the same time.K?
It's amazing when I get donewith that and I then kick into
my email or work the differencethat I feel compared if I just
come to my office and startimmediately working on everybody

(01:18:17):
else's problems or things thatthey need.

Which is what I did this morning. Oops.

Yeah. So the other thing that I'll say, and
this is kind of more throughoutthe day, I need to do this more,
but I try to at least do it. Andthis is schedule breaks. And,
again, I'm being completelyhonest here. I try to remember
take like, I I won't even usethe word regular.
I should try to make themregular, but I try to take
breaks throughout the day tostep away from the screens. 1,

(01:18:43):
2, 3, 4 screens that I stand infront of so that I can clear my
mind. Now this has kind ofevolved from when I used to walk
away, I felt guilty as I'll getout. Like, oh, I could be
helping somebody. I should bedoing this and doing that.
But taking breaks andunderstanding the importance of
them from a productivitystandpoint and mental clarity. I

(01:19:06):
even like to take, like, a 5minute break or a 10 minute
break or a 15 minute break. Andmany of the times when I take
that break, I literally go outand get something to maybe munch
on, and I'll go sit out in mybackyard at my table and just
feel the heat of the sun. Or ifit's, like, a quick 5 minute
break, I've literally kicked myshoes off, walked out into my
grass, and stood there barefootjust to feel the earth under me

(01:19:29):
and see the sky above me andthen come back in and go to
work. I don't care what you doon these breaks, but it's like
getting away and clearing yourmind.
When I think about the evening,think about winding down. This
is where I suck. I'm just gonnaput it out there. This is where
I could get way better. If Iallow myself to dream, my
evening would be, filled withthings like reading a little

(01:19:53):
bit, not on my device.
Maybe journaling a little bitabout my day, not on my device.
Maybe just listening to somecalm music or a meditation app.
Getting, away from my device foran hour, maybe 15 minutes. No.
My maybe a half an hour to anhour before bed so that, like, I

(01:20:13):
haven't been looking at thescreen.
I need to get better in theevening at Clear Boundaries,
because right now, usually, whatit is is watching a show with
the family, going up to bed,looking at my phone one last
time before I set it on thecharger, and I try to fall
asleep, which, by the way, I canfall asleep with the best of
them. So usually in about 5minutes, 10 minutes, I'm asleep.

(01:20:35):
But my point is, like, I couldget way better at that evening
piece. And when I think aboutthat, what I'm really leaning
into for myself and what I wouldhope for the listeners is just
this idea of in the evening Welland you could do this in the
morning too, but I think there'sthis power, especially in
today's conversation aboutmental health of reflect and

(01:20:58):
plan. Right?
Taking a few minutes to reflecton the day, jotting down what
went well, what could beimproved, planning the next day,
because that's gonna by the way,anytime that I have done this,
like, hey. Here's what I need todo tomorrow, there is a massive
reduction in anxiety, becauseI'm not worried about what's
coming up. I know what's comingup, and I actually know how I'm
gonna battle what's coming up.And so I think this idea of

(01:21:21):
reflecting and planning and,again, I think more in the
evening, but I think dependingon who you are, you could fit it
into your morning as well. Thisis kind of where my brain goes
for, like, the daily thing.
Now I am gonna say one morething, and I don't know if this
is daily for people. And I kindof alluded to I do it in a
certain way, and we even talkedabout it at the very beginning

(01:21:43):
of this episode. Again, if Iallow myself to dream of, like,
hey. How do you get better atthis? I think a designated
nature time, going and walkingin a park, going to hike in a
hill or a mountain, going andsitting out in your yard.
Again, this idea of cut all thetechnology, cut all the anxiety,

(01:22:06):
cut all the stress, cut all thekeeping up with the Joneses, and
just get back to the root of,like, being a caveman or
cavewoman in nature, smellingthe air, feeling the breeze,
seeing the changing leaves inthe fall, seeing them turn green
in the spring, like, looking atthe flowers, seeing the bees

(01:22:30):
buzz by. Like, there's justsomething in me that says and
maybe it's that I'm getting old.I don't know. But there's
something in me that says, like,that should be an important part
of the routine. Again, it couldbe on a weekly basis.
It could be on a monthly basisdepending on how big you're
making it. But at the end of theday, I think it comes down to

(01:22:51):
listening to your body and yourmind. I think it comes down to
being flexible and adapting tochanges. These are main things
that you're gonna pay attentionto as you build your routine for
these things. And, by the way,also understanding that you can
refine your habits to achieve abalanced approach that supports

(01:23:13):
your mental health and helps youhave that resiliency that we
need as we move forward throughlife's changes.

So, George, as we wrap up today's conversation
Yeah. We've we've we've covereda lot, and there still might be
people listening though who whostruggle around this social
stigma in a way where they candevelop their own healthy
relationship with their ownmental health. And if anybody
right now is listening who maybe struggling like that, what
would you say to them? How wouldyou encourage them? Yeah.
I would say let's make mentalhealth. You say to them? How
would you encourage them?

Yeah. I would say let's make mental health a
regular part of ourconversations. Like, making sure
everyone knows it's okay to seekthe help that we need when we
need it. I think addressing thisstigma around mental health is
critical, and we have to realizewe've reached a layer in time
where we can't keep masking it.We can't keep hiding it.

(01:24:06):
We can't it's not like, if wedon't talk about it, it doesn't
exist. Ladies and gentlemen, itexists. So if I think about this
journey, I'm not the type of guythat I'm gonna run out and just
start beating people over thehead with a mental health 2 by
4. I think we have to kindastart by gently challenging any
misconceptions or negativebeliefs that people might have

(01:24:26):
about mental health. And, again,the easiest place to start is
with the humans around you inyour own life.
An even easier place to start isin the conversations that happen
in your own brain, but it'simportant to explain to
ourselves and to others aroundus that seeking help needs to
become common, and it needs tobe looked at as a responsible

(01:24:47):
decision. Again, I mentioned thegaping wound in our chest versus
the gaping wound in our head. Itjust boggles the mind of how we
actually do this. You're gonnago see a doctor. I see a doctor
multiple times for high bloodpressure, for rheumatoid
arthritis, My yearly checkup, bythe way, where's your yearly

(01:25:08):
therapy checkup?
Like, that's probablynonexistent, but it should be a
thing because these people areprofessionals. They're there to
help us. It's interestingbecause I'm not a big political
guy, but, again, you do thiswhole quote thing, and I lean
into some quotes that I like.And Bill Clinton, believe it or
not, said that mental illness isnothing to be ashamed of, but

(01:25:30):
stigma and bias shame us all. Iwas like, dang, gone.
I'll let Bill hold the mentalhealth 2 by 4. I'll just have
the gentle conversations withmyself and with others, but that
quote is so powerful. We have tostart to live in a world,
especially on this beyond yourdefault journey where we're
promoting self compassion. We'reencouraging people to be kind to

(01:25:52):
themselves. We're reminding themthat everyone struggles.
I'll say sometimes, but I'lleven say maybe most of the time.
But the point of the punch lineto that is, like, it's okay that
you struggled, and it's okay toseek help, and it's okay to take
care of yourself. Like, there'sgonna be difficult moments, and
understanding and seekingsupport is a step towards

(01:26:12):
healing and growth. So havingthis open conversation, making
it so it's safe to have it,normalizing, I'll even say, the
discussion. Like, we need totalk openly and honestly about
mental health just as we wouldphysical health, like we're
going to next week on thepodcast.
By the way, I'm super excited totalk about physical health

(01:26:32):
because it is one of the thingsthat has challenged me most of
my life. And some of the thingsthat I figured out and changing
in switches that I'm flipping, Ithink, will add a lot of value.
I hope this conversation hasadded value to those that need
it, but share your stories.Break down barriers. Help people
get the help that they need.
I mentioned that it's one of thethings that we don't educate

(01:26:55):
ourself around typically.Educate yourself about the
things. What exactly is it? Howexactly can you manage it? What
exactly does it mean?
Take proactive steps around thething instead of hiding because
you're ashamed of it. Now here'sthe thing. I can't not have this
conversation even though I'vehistorically been the guy of,

(01:27:18):
like, therapist. I don't need notherapist. I actually might need
the therapist and some therapy.
So I have to kind of start toend this episode with, like,
seeking professional help is aproactive and an empowering step
towards better mental health. Soif you've been that guy or gal,
therapist, I don't need nostinking be quiet. Rethink your

(01:27:40):
thoughts. They're gonna give yousome habits that you can adopt.
They're gonna give you somehealing mechanisms versus coping
mechanisms.
They might start to talk abouthow regular exercise, proper
sleep, and a balanced diet, andmindfulness practices can make a
significant difference in thisthing that you've been hiding
from, and all of a sudden,you're on the positive side of

(01:28:03):
these. I'll also dip into, like,if you're the person who has
sleep issues this was huge forme, by the way. The amount of
sleep that I've gotten andbetter sleep that I've gotten,
which, by the way, I alreadytalked about high blood pressure
and, rheumatoid arthritis, but Ialso I have a CPAP that I sleep
with because I wasn't gettinggood enough sleep. And the

(01:28:24):
quality of sleep is essential,so don't be the person of, like,
I've always snored, or I'vealways stopped breathing and
almost died when I'm sleeping.Like, shut up.
Get the get the thing. Get thehelp that you need. Because all
of these pieces, by the way,they fit together. They help us
become this thing. Now if you'regetting good sleep, if you're
seeing a therapist, if you'vegot these habits that they're

(01:28:48):
helping you with, one of thethings that I think that we talk
about a lot here and thatthey'll mention too is, like,
this idea of mindfulness,meditation, deep breathing.
What I'm talking about here ismanaging the stress around the
thing, promoting a sense of calmeven during the thing that you
might be dealing with.Incorporating these healthy

(01:29:11):
habits, incorporating thesehelpful humans, building out
these daily routines to createthis stronger foundation for
your mental well-being, that'swhat we need to be focusing on
versus the stigma. Focus onthose things as you journey to a
life beyond your default.

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