The Allure of Hyena Energy and Weaponized Humor

Episode Transcript
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George B. Thomas (00:03):
I think and, again, we have our own
perception, and then otherpeople have their perception of
us. But I think for me, humorhas always been a shield for me.
Always been a shield for me. Butwhen I say that, don't get me
wrong. Like, there's a ton oftimes that I'm simply funny in
the moment because that's howI'm built.
I'll just say some random ish ina podcast or random stuff on

(00:25):
stage or out with friends andnot even really mean to be
funny, but it's just peoplelike, dude, you're hilarious.
Maybe I missed my calling onbeing a comedian. I don't know.
But there are many times wheremy humor is to put somebody at
arm's length. I like to havefun.
I like to laugh. I feel goodwhen others around me are

(00:47):
laughing and having fun, Liz.Like, natively that feeds or
fuels me. But I do realize likemost comedians that are out
there and if you've seeninterviews, the humor comes from
dark places. As humans, we getreally good at hiding because
they're about 37 layers underthe last joke we just told.

Liz Moorehead (01:13):
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your
host, Liz Moorehead. And asalways, I'm joined by the one,
the only, the man, the myth, thelegend, George b Thomas. It has
been a while since we have beenon this mic.

Yes.

How are you?

I'm doing great. It has been a hot minute.
I'm back in the saddle. I'm gladwe're in the saddle, and I'm
ready to go for this adventurousride on today's topic because I
think it's gonna get interestingto say the least.

Oh, yes. I think it's gonna get get extremely
interesting. But before we dothat, obviously, we start our
show every single week the sameway. We talk about our
highlights and our lowlights.George, what are your highlights
and lowlights?

Okay. So lowlights is gonna be tough, to
be honest with you, but I'llthink about that one.
Highlight's very easy for me.I've been out of the hospital
for 3 weeks, I think. I thinkit's been 3 weeks, and I have
lost £21, so maybe more.
We'll see. I'll weigh myselftomorrow. But here's the funny

(02:17):
thing is it hasn't been becauseI started walking because people
are gonna ask. It's literallyjust because I started eating
differently, drinkingdifferently. You know, no
breads, no sugars, no processedmeats, like, just more greens,
beans, and nuts, if you will.
Like, I love me like, instead ofa bowl of chips, now it's like

(02:38):
some cashews and pistachio nuts.Like, you know, maybe I'm binge
watching sweet tooth on Netflixor something like, hey. Let's
get a little bowl of nuts, andlet's go for it. So it's been
real interesting to watch mybody do this naturally based off
of, like, what I'm putting intoit. And this morning, I was
literally sitting here like,okay.
Now that I've dropped that,maybe it's time to actually

(03:01):
start doing the walks becausethe walks plus what's happening
with my body naturally is realinteresting to me. And, again,
the goal for me, by the way, isnot to lose weight. I'm just
happened to be losing weight.The goal is to eat and drink
things that don't causeinflammation and pain in my
body. So that's the large goal.

(03:21):
This is a side benefit that is ahighlight. Low light, I've kind
of been struggling. I haven'tvocalized this to anybody, and
I'm about to do it on a damnpodcast. I'm kind of struggling
with the business a little bitas far as, like, how much we do,
how much we should do, whoshould be doing what, if some

(03:44):
people should even be doing.Like, there's a whole bunch of
stuff circling around my brainfor probably the last week and a
half.
What's really weird about thatis it's because I've actually me
purposely slowed down, which isgiving my brain the space to
think about these things. Andwhile I say it's struggling and

(04:07):
I say it's a low light, it'sonly because it's not by default
state, and I don't naturallylike to be there. But it is
things that as a business owner,my brain should be thinking
about. So it's kind of a lowlight highlight. Did I just
cheat?
I don't know. Liz, what aboutyou as far as low light
highlights?

First of all, this isn't our only podcast
rodeo, George. You break myrules constantly on both this
podcast and the other podcast,and I do respect it. You know,
as a fellow little anarchist inmy own happy ways, I deeply
respect that. So I get it. Ithink it's fascinating, though,
that you are achieving a goal bynot setting out to seek that
specific goal with weight loss.

(04:47):
And I had a similar thing. SoI'm down now about I mean,
you've been watching me, theincredible shrinking list. I'm
about, like, £50, £60 down now

since

October. And you know what I did? I stopped
trying to lose weight. I juststopped. I just started saying,
like, I just know I need to movemy body, and I need to stop
eating like crap.

Yeah.

And that's all I do. I don't weigh myself. I
don't do any of those types ofthings. I just stopped. Just
stopped.
And what I find fascinatingabout what you mentioned about
your low light, I can completelyunderstand. You're now giving
yourself a moment to integrate.I think you've been given the
gift of an inflection pointwhere it's like, well, before we
keep, you know, we could keepgrowing. You could keep growing.

(05:26):
You could keep going as fast aspossible.

But it's

it's almost like a gift of, okay. So before we go
level up one more, are weleveling up in the right way? Do
we have the right people in theright seats doing the right
things? But I can understand whyit is a low light because then
it makes you go, oh, crap. Holdon.
Yeah. Is the call coming frominside the house? Are all the
calls coming from inside thehouse?

Yeah. And it's crazy because, again, I should
probably get kicked out of the,like, business owner club if
there was such a thing. But, Imean, even to the point where I
have 3 leads who are prettyready just to, like, sign on the
dotted line and us help them.And as a business owner, I'm
sitting there going, but do Iwanna?

And that's okay.

Do do we wanna do that? Like, it's more in and
there's so many business ownersout there that are struggling
to, like, find the next lead andclose the next deal. And we're
literally at a point where,like, I can do that, but it will
equal this other, like, level,or I cannot do that. And we can
just kinda stay where we're atfor right now because maybe

(06:31):
that's what we need to do, ormaybe it's not. Anyway, that's
not why we're here today.
But, again, that's all in thebrain of, like, trying to figure
out how to you know, living alife beyond your default and
being a business owner cansometimes become a very complex
matrix of should I, could I,would I scenarios. And, man, my

(06:55):
brain just likes to, like, getlost in the woods of those
things.

Oh, man. I love that. So my highlights let's
see. I wish I could say myhighlight is, man, this weather
is so beautiful, but, you know,I am a fall and winter girly. So
I'm sitting here going, yay,sunshine.
We love this for us. This isgreat.

I do like your sun.

I will say, having lived in New England, I
didn't know in New Englandbecause it's further from the
equator, the sun in the wintersets earlier. So down here,
it'll still like, even in thewinter, like, it's, like, 5
o'clock or so and that reallysucks. Up there, it's, like, 4
o'clock in the wintertime, whichis brutal. That is a level of
like, god. No wonder you're soangry up there.

Oh, in Ohio, we hated it. When we lived in
Ohio versus North Carolina,we're like, okay. It's 4:15, and
it's midnight out.

Yeah. But what I will say that is a positive out
of it, and this is why it is myhighlight, not just me
complaining about sunshine, is Ihave been able to get out more
and just really enjoy walkingaround town. I live in a really
cool spot in historic downtownAnnapolis. And, you know, once a
week on the weekends, there'salways, like, a big brass band
playing outside or stuff likethat going on. Like, there's

(08:06):
just this really cool communityfeeling that this town really
comes alive around this time ofyear after everyone's been
trapped inside for months.
Right? But that I would say ismy highlight is just really
walking around with completelyunhurried energy. I don't feel
frantic like I did last year. Ifeel very much like, hey, life

(08:28):
is gonna surprise me. You know,I wrote about this in our
newsletter a few weeks ago,beyond your
default.comforward/newsletter.
Comes out once a week.

Go subscribe, please.

Go subscribe. Yeah. I wrote about how 5 year
plans suck and how I reallydon't like them because whenever
I develop them, they'recompletely wrong. So the recent
commitment I had made to myselfis to embrace a mindset of
curiosity Instead of constantlytrying to clench my hands around
life and shape it to exactlywhat I want it to be, that I was
just gonna allow it to myself tobe curious at all times. And

(09:00):
I've been really focusing onthat recently as part of my
highlight.
And because of that, I've justhad some really interesting
adventures. I had dinner withrandom friends who I ran into
because I decided to just gowalk around and see where I am.
I've experienced new music, newart, new different and it's just
been really fun. Now my lowlight has been a weird thing. I

(09:20):
cannot get my sleep schedulestraight.
I don't know what it is. For awhile, I had strep for about a
week or so a couple weeks ago,which was, you know, 0 out of 5
stars. That is my Yelp review.Do not recommend.

Yeah.

Lots of notes. Hated it. Hated every moment of
it. I'd never had it before, butI learned, you know, when you
have your don't have yourtonsils out, apparently, that
makes you more prone to it. Oh.
But, yeah, I didn't know that.They're like, it's not a direct
cause, but it can make you moreprone to getting it, especially
when you're older. But it's justbeen strange. As more connected
and mentally dialed in, I feelphysically something's out of

(09:58):
whack. I'll find myself withnights where I'm just staying up
really late with my brain going,but it's not anxiety that's
keeping it up keeping me up likeit used to be.
It's something else. Or I'lljust wake up once an hour every
hour. It just something's upwith my sleep and so it's
creating this weird I know I'mnot the only person who feels
this way sometimes, but it'screating this weird kind of loop

(10:19):
where it's like, if my sleepschedule's off, even if I get an
appropriate amount of sleep,even if it's not just Liz didn't
sleep, it will suddenly make mefeel more removed from my
communities, from my people,from my work because I'm not
quite dialed in. All of myrhythms are off. So there's this
been this weird cascading effectwhere just all of my rhythms for

(10:41):
about two and a half weeks havejust been off.

Yeah. I'll tell you one thing I don't have
a problem with, Liz, and that issleep.

Oh my god. I'm so jealous.

My wife gets so angry because I can sleep
anywhere. Like, we'll besomewhere, and I'll just prop
against the wall. I'm out.Here's the funny thing, though,
and and I'm gonna say this forthe listeners, but I'm also
saying this for you. My sleepand the ability to sleep through
the night and when I wake upfeeling refreshed dramatically

(11:11):
changed when I quit beingbullheaded.
And I think it was about 6months ago, maybe 7 at this
point. I went ahead, doctor'sorders, and I did a CPAP, which
everybody that I talk to,usually, they kind of freak out
of, like, no. I couldn't havesomething on my face or blah
blah blah. There's insert, like,excuse for the human. Just

(11:34):
insert any excuse there.

We always have a 1,000 excuses not to help our
health.

I did this too. I did this too. But once I,
and it took about 3 days. 3days, 4 days. Got used to it.
And now I'm, like, I'm probablytheir best advocate. I should
become a CPAP salesman because Iwas literally talking to my dad
when I went to Ohio for afuneral and was visiting with
and my mom let it slip like, oh,yeah. He's got sleep apnea. And

(11:59):
I'm like, dude. Dude, you gottaget your CPAP.
And he's like, like, you couldimmediately tell. He was like,
dude, shut up before I kill youand take you out of the will
because your mom is just gonnaride my butt the entire time
after you leave. And so, like, Ishut it down, but anybody who
has this cycle or they wake upand don't feel refreshed, hey.

(12:20):
It's just a doctor's visit andsee. Get tested.
Like, maybe you have sleepapnea. Maybe it's waking you up.
But by the way, like, largeweight changes and things like
that will just because your body

is even thought of that.

Yeah. Your body's used to be in a certain
way, and now all of a suddenyour body's changing. And so,
like, be like, hey. Thishappened, and now I'm doing
this. Can you please, like, tellme what your thoughts are?
And, like, actually get somedamn medical advice. I'm done
saying that to you, but to youand to the listeners. It's it's
just me. From a guy who usuallyis like, I hate doctors. I hate

(12:55):
hospitals.
But the older I get, I'm like,just get some advice. That's
what they're there for. Anyway,again, not what we're here to
talk about, but No. Veryimportant stuff.

I actually think this is really tied pretty
deeply into what we're talkingabout today. Because the whole
thrust of today's conversationis and this is a bit of a
different episode in terms ofwhere we sourced it. But this
idea the question we're gonna beasking ourselves today is what
would happen if you took yourgoals seriously?

Yeah.

And this, I think, is wrapped up in it
because well, you know what?We'll get to that. I wanna first
talk about where this came from.And what's funny is I got this
for you as well, George, and Idon't know if you've interacted
with it. I don't even know ifyou've picked it up.
But a friend of mine 2 years agoas a gift gave me a box of
cards, animal spirit cards byKim Kranz. And I'm, like, I
don't know what this is and Idon't understand. She's like,

(13:45):
it's fun. You can pull cards,you can read stuff, you could
just see what it is. I'm like,okay.
That's fine. And I had them putaway for a really long time. And
then as I was moving aroundrecently, I reopened it up. I'm
like, I forgot about this. Andand they're pretty neat, you
know.
They have little animals likelion, crow, tiger, da da da da

(14:06):
da. And I don't subscribe to aparticular belief system around
stuff like this. I think of itmore as like kind of like a
subconscious little psychologything. Like, you pick 1, you
pull from it, you see how youfeel about it. But then
something weird startedhappening.
And wouldn't you know it,George? As if on cue, guess what

(14:26):
popped out?

Hey. There we go. I'm just saying, like, there
it is. Which, by the way, ifyou're listening to this, you're
like, what? What just poppedout?
I can't see the screen. So acard that we're about to talk
about just came flying out.

And, George, what's funny is I was originally
not considering this somethingwe should talk about. But you
said, if it happens once, fine.If it happens twice,
coincidence. If it happens 3times, somebody's trying to tell
me.

Somebody's knocking on your mental doorway.
I'm just saying.

And this card has been stalking me for about 2
months. I had in 1 week thiscard. I would shuffle it. I
would throw it against a wall. Icould, like, shake it in a
bucket and this one card wouldcome out.
And it is the hyena card. And Iread it to you And as soon as we
read it, we're like, oh, shit.We have to talk about this.

Yeah.

The hyena personality is a jokester and a
crowd pleaser. But below thesurface, there are unfulfilled
dreams to be realized. When thehyena card appears, it is time
to reflect on your reliance onsarcasm and humor to express
your truth. Ouch. Are you usingjokes to hide old resentments in
relationships or to mask thingsthat you feel uncomfortable

(15:42):
discussing?
What would happen if you tookyour goals seriously? George, I
wanna turn to you for a secondand ask you this. When I shared
this, I was a little bit nervousto come to you
and be like, so I got these cards and this this
one card has been stalking meand I'm having feelings of that.
Like, that's a weird thing for me to say. Like,

(16:03):
that that felt like a weirdthing for me to say, but you had
a very excited emotionalreaction about this
conversation. And I wanna knowwhy. What is it about either
this story or this subject thatreally excites you and makes it
important?

Yeah. After I got past my is that there one of
them carrot cards? No.

I'm just

kidding. I didn't do I didn't do that. I
didn't do that.

I did.

But see how funny that was, though, because
you're talking about humananyway, it's not it's not like

I get it.

I see it. It's not one of them cards. It's not
like voodoo. Like, listen. Firstof all, if you've paid attention
to this podcast, you realize Ihistorically suck at journaling.
And so immediately, this idea,and I love this idea of randomly
picking a card, which leads toan internal journey of who we

(16:51):
are and possibly how we interactwith the world and using that as
a catalyst to do some type ofactual, like, daily journaling.
Like, just fundamentally, thatexcites me. But, again, Liz gave
you some context to, like, wewere going over this card. We're
having this conversation, but aside portion of this that, Liz,

(17:13):
you didn't know is that I'vealways been kind of I don't know
if I wanna say in tuned,entrenched, enticed. I I don't
know the word I'm looking for,but of this idea of spirit
animals.
And, like, so knowing that therewas this deck and knowing that
you were talking about hyena andknowing that it was, like, these

(17:33):
these unknown spirit animals,and and it was, alluding to this
kind of nature and religion andspiritual, and you could kinda
take it how you wanted it. Like,I was just like, Liz, I need one
of them their decks, which, ofcourse, you then gifted me a
pack of the the deck and and thebook that comes with it, which,
by the way, like, Liz, Iliterally have earmarked the

(17:57):
hyena in the book because I was,like, reading it and going
through it for this episode. Buthere's the thing, I've always
been fascinated with the idea ofspirit animals. And for Indian
cultures, like, this concept ishuge. Like, huge.
And, heck, Marcus Sheridan,which was a boss that I had at a

(18:18):
historical company I worked forcalled the sales lion because he
alluded to that the lion was hishis spirit animal, like, a thing
that he thought about, dreamtabout. I've always been more of,
like, a curious George monkeyspirit animal, to be honest with
you. Like

My company is named after an animal. So my
company is named Buena Volpe,but it's that means good fox.
And the whole thesis behind goodfox is when you are clever and
cunning and intelligent, it is achoice to be a good fox.

Yeah. I love it. That's why

I named it.

I love it. So for me, you know, Curious
George, the monkey, or I've beenreally in tune with, like, the
horse. I mean, I used to be ahorse trainer. I grew up in
Montana. So, like, the horse wasvery close or instrumental in my
life until the day that we hadour conversation.
And I had never really thoughtabout like, wow, is the hyena my

(19:11):
spirit animal? Like, is thisreally who I am and, like, who I
kind of correlate to? BecauseI've always, listen. I got told
I would amount to nothing at 17ahalf. I've told this story on
the podcast because I was beinga class clown.
I was being a hyena. I wasjoking around. Like, I was
having fun. And and so, like,natively, even at a younger age,

(19:36):
like, this is who I was and howI've kind of programmed to be.
And and I'm really good at justkind of being funny in the
moment, which is a good thingand a bad thing.
We'll get into that sometimesdepending on how or what you're
wielding with that humor. Butregarding the hyena card, I felt
a direct correlation, or I mighteven say, like, a deep

(19:57):
connection with the words thatyou read that day and, Liz, that
you just read a second ago sopeople don't have to rewind. The
card starts out, the hyenarepresents a jokester and crowd
pleaser. I get paid to speak onstage. Yep.
In front of crowds so that theyhave fun and get educated. I'm

(20:20):
literally on a podcast mic rightnow for who knows how large of
audience so that they can enjoyand educate around life. Like, I
just wanna say, have you met me?Like, like, what that whole
first line, jokester and crowdpleaser. Again, this is my
default state in good ways thatI'm trying to amplify, and I

(20:43):
also understand in bad ways thatI'm trying to fix along the way.
But the card goes on to say,below the surface, there are
dreams to be realized. Sometimesthe hyena is so busy joking
around and pleasing people, theydon't get down to the root of
what they wanna do with life.And, Liz, this is where I

(21:05):
literally go back and say, thefirst 25 to 30 years of my life
may have been wasted. Whilethere was life lessons along the
way, it was very surface level,and still I started to dig down
and started to realize thesedreams. Right?
Really, like, 2010, 2012 iswhen, like, things really

(21:27):
started to take shape and andkind of change. Before that, the
the pre George b Thomas and justthe George Thomas is a whole
thing. But I've been workinghard for sure for at least the
last 2 to 3 years to realize allmy dreams. I mean, listen.
That's why I've started abusiness.

(21:47):
That's why we created the beyondyour default podcast. That's why
we'll launch the Beyond YourDefault book course. Heck, who
knows what else? The family andI are moving in about a year,
and we'll be first timehomeowners at 53 years old. And
we have very specific thingsthat we're looking for or, dare

(22:09):
I say, dreaming about when wepurchase our first time and what
we're calling our forever home.
My wife and I at 53, we'rebuying and we don't plan on
moving. So there is a laundrylist of we dream about having
this. My dreams, our familydreams are not only being
realized, Liz and listeners, butI would say we're freaking

(22:30):
mapping them out with purpose,which again, historically, you
know, history, George, it wasnot that deep. It was not that
mapped out. The card goes on tosay, are you using jokes to hide
old resentments inrelationships?
Listen. I don't know about you.Only you can answer for you, but

(22:54):
I've joked my way through andpast a lot of historical pain.
And to be honest, I think thatit wasn't until we started this
podcast and created this podcastthat I have gone back through my
life and started to unpack someof the ish that I joked away
along the journey. Moments havereally been looked at,

(23:18):
dissected, and worked through inmy life over the last how many
episodes have we done of this?
There's been a lot of, like,doctor George to George, like,
growth and tweaking andchanging. And so the card then
goes on to state, what wouldhappen if you took your goals

(23:41):
seriously? I am. I am taking mygoals seriously, and it's
changing my life and the livesof those around me. And and I'm
I would ask the listeners, like,to ask yourself that question
and get to the point whereyou're able to just say, I am
right now.
I'm finding it both. The factthat I can say I am and the fact

(24:02):
that it is changing my life andpeople's lives around me, I find
it both challenging andexhilarating at the same time,
to be honest. Like, again,everything is almost like a
little bit of a a double edgedsword or, like, the positive and
the negative, the yin, the yangto it. But that's why I found it
exciting and and what has led usto talk about humor as a weapon

(24:24):
or as a shield in our life. Thislittle freaking card, this hyena
card was the catalyst for thisentire conversation today.

I love it. And I love that you mentioned the
journaling practice because Idid fail to mention that. One of
the things that I do is thatwhenever I read a card, I have
30 minutes each day and I haveto sit down and write about what
the card brings up. What ishilarious about this is that
hilarious.

Isn't that funny?

Isn't that funny? Is that I have now had to write
about this same question 3 timesover the past month and I now
have to do it again today.

Does it change each time?

That's what I wanna talk about. So what I find
fascinating about this is thatwhen I first read this, I had a
very big reaction to it becauseit made me confront the fact
that and I've talked about mypeople pleasing tendencies on
this podcast before. I've talkedabout where they come from. And
to pat myself on the back, I'man intelligent quick witted

(25:23):
person. I also do publicspeaking.
I also do podcasting and I'm awriter, like, and and part of my
voice and tone is authentic, butthere's a lot of humor involved
in that.

Yeah.

But one of the things that it really started
forcing me to confront is thislittle shadow part of myself
that says, Liz, let's go aquestion deeper. Do you want to
be entertaining and loved or doyou want to be effective? Oh.
And that when I got becauseusually what I do, like, so for
example, to go back to ournewsletter for a second. 2 weeks

(25:55):
ago, I did an issue on risk thatwas inspired by a friend of mine
asking me why does it feel sohard to take risks?
And I'm like, well, wait aminute, that's not is that the
question? Because I startedpeeling back the layers. Right?
I'm like, well, wait a minute.Sometimes I'm fine with taking a
risk.
I could have 2 risks of equalweight and equal potential for
failure at an equal amount and Iwill run after one with more

(26:17):
ease than the other. Why? Andit's because I know I freaking
want it. Because I took the timeto sit down and say I want this.
This fuels me.
This is what I need. This iswhat I want. So the first time I
sat with this question, I feltlike I had a body, a physical
reaction to it. And I startedsaying, well, what is it about
the question? And it's becausewhat the question was forcing me

(26:38):
to ask, which was, effective?
Do you even know what your goalsare? And that's when you start
getting into really potentiallyscary spaces, because you know
how it is, George. We aretrained through our work and our
professions to respond, to beready, to talk, to know things,

(27:01):
to be knowledgeable, to be here,to be guides to other people.

Yeah.

And it could create feelings of fraudulence
if you're guides to other people
and you're, like, I guess, I'm just trying to
figure this out.
You know, I'm just vibing. Like, what are my
goals? Now what I findfascinating about this practice
too is that I have to answerthis again today. And we like to
be radically honest with ourlisteners. Yeah.
This is the 3rd time we havetried to record this episode.

Yeah.

The first two times, they were stuff happened.
But I always have a problem withand I talked to you about this
this morning. I always have aproblem with even if each
instance is reasonable. Once weget to a 3rd time

Yeah.

There is a there is a problem. And that problem
was this morning. I can't tellyou why I wasn't awake for the
original time. Could not tellyou. We need to have a
conversation today about Liz.
You know what you your goalsare. You're working through the
fact that you are reallyembracing being effective,
dialed in rather thanentertaining and liked because
that is a wound you're workingthrough. So what would happen if

(28:03):
you took your goal seriously? Inow, for a 4th time, have to
come back and answer thisquestion again for 30 minutes.
And I'm very excited to see whatcomes out because I love
opportunities like this tochallenge ourselves with really
hard questions.
Because if you can really pushyourself through these difficult
moments, whether you're askingyourself this question for the

(28:24):
first time or this is something,like, this is something you need
to work through, If you allowyourself to be uncomfortable and
honest, you can get to somereally, really interesting
places. And I'll definitelyshare with you what I end up
coming to later on when I dothis later today.

Because I am curious. Yeah. I'm curious
because I know by the way, I

I pay attention to things.

Oh, yeah. I know that, historically, you
have been struggling withbuilding a brand inside of
Beyond Your Default and what theuniverse is asking you to become
and how to show up. And andliterally, when this thing
skipped the first time, I waslike, and then it skipped the

(29:10):
second time. And I was like,okay. Like, is the universe
because, again, I have a realweird set of, like, the universe
sometimes maybe doesn't want usto open certain doors, doesn't
want us to see certain things,doesn't want us to hear or let
others hear certain things.
I said, this is interesting.Maybe it's coincidence,

(29:32):
whatever. And then the thirdtime it happened this morning,
first of all, I got frustratedas all get out.

Yeah. A little

at you, a little at the universe, a little
at myself, and then, like, I waslike, why am I frustrated?
Literally walked out and talkedto my wife. I'm like, man, I'm
frustrated. I'm just trying toclear my head right now. But
when I started to think aboutit, I was like, okay.
Doesn't matter when. As soon asI have a conversation with Liz,
I'm just resetting the time, andwe're doing this, and screw the

(30:00):
universe. Here's the questionsthat I ask myself. Is the
universe doing this, or is Lizsubconsciously doing this?
Because of the fact that this isa large stepping stone into her
understanding goals around whoshe is to be, can be, and will
be in the future based off ofthis, like, very pivotal piece,

(30:24):
humor, and what it does or doesnot do to goals as she moves
forward.
I don't have the answer to that,but that's why I say, Liz, I'm
very interested in knowing whenyou write it today, what ends up
happening.

I remember I woke up this morning. I was like,
what the actual fuck? And I hada moment where I sat there and
I'm just like, I had the samemoment. I'm frustrated with
myself. Mhmm.
I'm frustrated with whatever ishappening. Because I'm, like,
you and I record multiplepodcasts. This is an anomaly to
miss the same episode Yeah. 3this is unheard of. It is and I

(31:00):
had to force myself to say, whatis this moment trying to show
me?
It's, like, like, well, first,you're gonna pick up the phone
and you're gonna call Georgeimmediately and own this because
this is insanity. But then theother piece of it is exactly
what we're talking about. Theseseemingly innocuous questions
are here to teach us somethingand I guarantee you, I have a
big block around this, what I'mstepping into. Because what I've

(31:24):
been feeling recently is that sowe are part of an entrepreneurs
group called, Evolve and we havegroup that we meet with and we
have individual coaches. And Iremember now that I'm thinking
about it, George, yesterday, Timwas talking about my writing and
how in the newsletter,particularly in the past 3
weeks, something has shifted.

(31:45):
I've gotten much more dialed in.I've gotten much more direct.
Like, there is a level of flowthat is occurring. And if I'm
being honest with myself, I felt90 8% great. And now that I'm
reflecting on that conversation,there is a 2% of me that was
terrified.

Yeah. And, see, I've looked at the last
couple newsletters. I'll giveyou my perspective. I was like,
finally. Finally, she's takingno prisoners.

She's Really?

She's setting them up and knocking them down.
I'm like, if people don't likethis, they don't need to read
it. But the people who like thisare gonna freaking change.
They're gonna look atthemselves. They're gonna listen
to the stories as they'rereading it, and it's gonna be a
catalyst point.
So, yeah, I have loved thedirection of the last couple

(32:34):
newsletters and have fearfullythought about not or sharing
that with you in the worriesthat it would change the outcome
of the newsletters movingforward because I was like, I'll
just let her be on her courseand do what she's doing. But,
yeah, the newsletter strategy oftake no prisoners is I'm like,
yes. Like, let's do it,especially for what we're doing

(32:56):
here with this podcast, withthis community. Listen. If
you're trying to grow, then thisnewsletter in the way that it
has the last couple weeks isgonna help you do that.

I'm at shameless plug beyond your
default.comforward/newsletter.This wasn't intentionally gonna
be around the newsletter, butthat means a lot. And I'm glad
you shared that with me becauseI'm like, George has thoughts
because he's beinguncharacteristically quiet. I
usually at least say to, hey.But I had a friend this morning
text me.
I'll send you the text later,George. She's like, yesterday's
issue, that hurt. And I said,why? And she wrote my

(33:25):
relationship. I'm like,

oh. Yeah. I literally hit the reply because
I was in the hotel room becausewe took Noah and the family to
Cherokee, Resort and Casino forhis 21st birthday. I was in the
hotel room, had hit reply on thenewsletter that you wrote just
recently, and literally waslike, nope.

Oh, about endings? Yeah.

Nope. I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna
let it but I was I was so closeto hitting reply and saying
something. I was like, nope. I'mjust gonna let it be. I'm gonna
let it be.
So good.

But this is where we get into something very
interesting that startshappening. Because one of the
places that I felt uncomfortableand this leads me into my next
question, George, for you. Oneof the things I've done it is
I've become less reliant onhumor. Humor still shows up.
There's very loud all capsApplebee's reference in this
past week's issue.
But I've become I don't know. Myrelationship with humor is

(34:15):
changing because I think myrelationship with humor in
general is that humor is asymptom of a deeper wound.

Oh, we'll talk about that. And so we can get in
that question, but here's thething that I for some reason, my
brain is wanting to, like, shoutthis right now with what you
just said. And and I usually saythis, like, with design
principles. Right? I'm like,hey.
Design is supposed to be thesalt and pepper. It's not
supposed to be the sandwich.Like, it's not the meal. It's
what makes the meal taste good.If humor is the whole meal, AKA

(34:46):
some of our historicalnewsletters, fine.
It's great. It's a meal, but itmight not be healthy versus if
humorous, the salt and pepperinside the meal, the steak,
something that really fills youup, something that really gives
you the power to move forward.Now the humor being the salt and
pepper or the condiment,depending on what you like,
analogy wise, now we're headingin the right direction. So you

(35:09):
do still have in by the way, thelast 2 to 3 that you've written,
salt and pepper humor

Mhmm.

But mostly steak.

Okay. Now I wanna get off the hot seat for a
little bit because Yeah.

This is a

lot of talking about my feelings. So I wanna
hear from you. How has yourrelationship with humor been
throughout your life? How has itbeen a shield for you? I know
you've already started touchingon this, but let's go deeper.

I think and, again, we have our own
perception, and then otherpeople have their perception of
us. But I think for me, humorhas always been a shield for me.
Always been a shield for me. Butwhen I say that, don't get me
wrong. Like, there's a ton oftimes that I'm simply funny in
the moment because that's howI'm built.
Like, I'll just say some randomish in a podcast or random stuff

(35:53):
on stage or out with friends andnot even really mean to be
funny, but it's just peoplelike, dude, you're hilarious.
Maybe I missed my calling onbeing a comedian. I don't know.
But there are many times wheremy humor is to put somebody at
arm's length. I like to havefun.
I like to laugh. I feel goodwhen others around me are

(36:16):
laughing and having fun, Liz.Like, natively, that feeds or
fuels me. But I do realize, likemost comedians that are out
there, and if you've seeninterviews, the humor comes from
dark places. That as humans, weget really good at hiding
because they're about 37 layersunder the last joke we just

(36:39):
told.

I saw a webcomic about this recently. It's like,
you're so funny, and the girlgoes, thanks, trauma.
It's just

Yeah. And the funny thing, if you asked me,
because you you know, has itever been a shield? I said
always. But I also wanna addsometimes for me because it by
the way, a shield is to protectus, which is why I literally use
the keep people at arms lengthreference to protect myself. I

(37:06):
am funny, humorous.
But I would also say sometimesmy humor has been a sword. Not
so much anymore, but when I wasyounger, and I'll say dumber in
life, I would use humor to takeothers out. Like, just take them
down. And that was just wrong.And now something that I am

(37:28):
always watching out for andkeeping the old George, that
portion of old George at baywhen it comes to that kind of
sword style humor.
So I want the listeners to thinkabout, like, in your life, have
you used humor as a shield? Haveyou used humor as a sword? What

(37:48):
part does humor play in yourpast, your present, and the way
that you present to yourselfthat you can actually become or
do with or without that humor?Liz, let's put you back on the
hot seat. What what are yourthoughts to this question?

I would have answered this question entirely
differently had we record thiswhen we were supposed to the
first time and the second time.I would have recorded this in
entirely different way. So let'sbe honest. What is my
relationship with humor? Myrelationship with humor for a
really long time was the way Iwould find love and liking.
I really have struggled for along time in my life to feel a

(38:27):
sense of connection with people.And a lot of that is
circumstantial. I'm an onlychild and both of my parents
were only children. So I grew upwith no aunts, uncles, or
cousins. They also had me whenthey were much older.
My mother was reproductivelychallenged and I was a miracle
baby who showed up when theywere 40. So a lot of my extended
family passed away relativelyyoung. And then I moved out on

(38:50):
my own when I was 19 years old.And I really never felt the
family connectedness that a lotof people feel. I I grew up in
an abusive household and and Idon't share these things to to
garner pity.
I I love my path and I wouldn'tchange anything about it. It's
why I get to be sitting herehaving these conversations with
you. I wanna be clear. There's areason I don't talk about this

(39:11):
and it's that fear of, oh, youknow, but if we're talking about
where this wound came from andand where humor started to cover
that wound, It's because it wasa way for me to achieve
connectedness because, hey, Ihappen to be a funny person.
Like, that's cool.

She's the life of the party.

Yeah. She's exhausted. She's exhausted. So
when I think about what thisquestion has forced me to ask
myself over and over again andnow doing it for a 4th time, I
think it tricked me intobelieving that being liked was
the goal. Oh.
Because it was the one thing Ialways lacked or felt I lacked.

(39:52):
And as I've started to unpackthis over the past month or so,
I've started to realize thingslike being funny is ultimately
hollow if there is no steak. Ifit's just a big plate of pepper,
you start to wonder, well, do Iactually have anything of
substance or value tocontribute? I remember at an old
job I had, you know, I was oneof our top speakers and toward

(40:14):
the end, one of the reasons Ihad to leave is because I'm not
sure I have anything original tosay. I I'm funny and
entertaining and our audiencelikes me a lot, but I'm not
saying anything wholly original.
They didn't put me in thisposition. It was just
circumstances. It's just whathappened. But it kinda gave me
an identity crisis of, like, doI actually contribute anything?

(40:35):
And so it's not necessarily thathumor has been a shield for me
per se, it's more that it was myway as an inherently very lonely
person to feel less lonely.
The problem is, is that I endedup still feeling lonely because
nobody knew me. There was aversion of me that existed out

(40:58):
there. It wasn't real. And sowhen I started tackling this
question of what would happen ifyou take your goal seriously,
that's when when you startrealizing, like, shit, what are
my goals? Like, when I thinkabout the writing I've been
doing the past few weeks forbeyond your default, I will tell
you I have felt the most alive Ihave ever felt doing that.

Yep.

And it scared me. Because when you start tapping
into something real, that meansyou start giving yourself the
vulnerability to lose something.I don't know. That's where my

brain went. There's so much right there.
Like, you can't lose somethingyou never had, and you'll never
have the thing if you actuallydon't embrace vulnerability. And
so, therefore, it's like a catch22 where you don't ever actually
reach the mecca, the Nirvana,because you're afraid that
you'll lose it, but you nevergot it because you weren't

(41:45):
willing to take the journeyanyway.

That's the honest answer. And what's funny is a
couple of weeks ago, the answerprobably would have been like,
yeah, joke like some version ofthat. Yeah. Jokester, trickster.
But I think this is where Iwould always encourage people to
ask the question behind thequestion.
Is humor really the issue or ishumor a symptom? Right?

Yeah.

Like, your ankle could be swollen because it's
broken, fractured, you twistedit, you sprained it. It could be
a 1,000 different things. Thereare different root causes. So
it's really figuring out, like,what is the root.

Yeah. It's interesting too before we move
on to the next question. I don'tknow how necessarily to unpack
this, but I want the listenersto think about something that
you said. Because you mentionedthe idea of, like, I wanted to
be liked. That was, like, amajor goal.
It's funny because and, again, II know I'm not gonna do this
justice, but when you said that,I was like, oh, is my goal here

(42:38):
to be liked or is my goal hereto learn, or is my goal here to
lead? And, of course, we wannahave great relationships, but
how much does like versus loveactually equal a great
relationship? And is likesurface love anyway, listeners,
I want you to try to unpack thisidea of just in in a micro goal

(43:00):
of, like, do you do the thingsyou do because you wanna be
liked versus you're doing thethings that you do because you
want to or need to lead orbecause you want to or need to
learn or because you want to orneed to love or be loved because
there's a big difference betweenthose things.

What's interesting too is that that
type of writing I've donerecently for Beyond Your Default
newsletter has also leaked intomy personal life. I woke up one
morning last week

and I

was like, I need to apologize to someone. And
then I sat down and basicallywrote an essay and I just got
really raw and vulnerable, youknow, and I thanked them for
being my friend over this past year. You know,
it's it's been a tough year andjust wanted to own a few things
with them. Yeah. And it
brought us entirely closer. Like, it could
fundamentally changedeverything. So it's fascinating.
The mechanisms by which I thinkwe think we can achieve

(43:47):
closeness, true understanding isusually the inverse of what will
actually do it. It's not humor.
It's vulnerability. It's notlaughter. It's true love. It's
not making people happy. It'sbeing, like, hey, we need to
talk about we need to talk aboutthis.
Yeah.
Right? That's when you show true love. So I've
talked a bit about what madehumor an attractive shield for
me, but, George, I'd love tohear from you your thoughts on

(44:09):
what you believe makes humorsuch an attractive shield for
yourself or other people.

Yeah. And this question actually kind of was
one of those, this scares thecrap out of me questions. But
the first word that came, like,rushing to my mind was and,
again, this might be for me. Itmight be for you for other
people, for the listeners. Butthe first word that came rushing
to my mind was diversion.
Right? We've all seen the moviewhere, like, hey. We need

(44:34):
somebody to create a diversionso that they don't actually see
what's happening over here. Forme, humor is the diversion. The
great and powerful laws.
You're looking at the humor, soyou don't see the human. Right?
You don't see the man or womanbehind the curtain, or in this
case, behind the mass of theperson who is presenting the

(44:57):
humor. So, like, I immediatelygo to, like, man, is it a
diversionary tactic, a smoke ina mirror so they don't actually
see who I am? They're just like,

oh, that dude's a funny dude. I love this.

So that's the first thing. But but I think
there's, like, 5 things thatpeople might fall into, and I'll
keep these short. But, like, Ithink it's an enticing shield,
humor, because there's, like,emotional relief. And we've kind
of alluded to the second one,social bonding. Humor is a great
way, by the way, to doperspective change.
I'll even throw in I usediversion, but I'll even use

(45:31):
deflection. There's aninteresting one that is, like,
it's very empowering, which bythe way too, I think, is a
little bit of, like, there couldbe a whole another conversation
as, like, humor as a drug forthe person who is dispensing the
humor because you get theattaboys and attagirls. You're
so funny. And then you're, like,chemicals bubble up, and you're

(45:52):
like,

oh, I'm
Get the high. Yeah.

But as far as, like, these five things. Right?
When we think about, anemotional relief, like, humor
helps us as individuals in manycases. This is why I talked
about joking my way past andthrough earlier. It helps us
manage stress and anxiety byproviding and, Liz, I wanted to
say something about this whenyou were talking the word

(46:18):
temporary.
Like, it's a temporary Band Aid.Right? So, like but it helps us
manage stress, anxiety byproviding a temporary escape
from the difficulties that wemight be facing that injected us
into this, like, humor mode,this shield or sore.

Doesn't heal

it. Exactly. Exactly. So if we think about
social bonding, like, listen,shared laughter, which, by the
way, listeners, just stop for asecond. If you have to pause the
podcast, pause it.
But I want you to stop and thinkabout a time, if not multiple
times in your life, wheresomebody started laughing, and
then you started laughingbecause they were laughing, but

(46:59):
you didn't even know why theywere laughing. Like, we've all
fall prey to that. Right? And soshared laughter or humor has the
ability to also strengthenrelationships and foster a sense
of community. Again, Liz, youare hitting on so many points
where you said lonely.
I'll use the word isolation. Andso when you're socially

(47:19):
humorous, it reduces thisfeeling of I'm isolated on an
island by myself because I havethese other humans who are
engaging with what I'm actuallysaying or doing in that moment.
It is powerful for perspectivechange. Humor allows us to
reframe negative situations.Again, we alluded to this.

(47:41):
Right? Comedians, trauma. It'sreframing these negative
situations to be lessthreatening. It doesn't feel as
big as it should. Here's theproblem.
When it doesn't feel as big asit should, you also don't take
care of the problem, and theproblem sits there and festers
and becomes a bigger problembecause we tried to change the

(48:02):
perspective of it with humor. Ormaybe it actually can be changed
with humor, and we can getthrough the thing that we have.
Deflection humor can diffusetension and prevent
confrontations. This is adefinitely at work one maybe
where you're like, and I'm justgonna not have confrontation, so
I'll make a little funny here.Watch a lot of leaders use humor

(48:26):
in this moment in time to makedifficult conversations more
manageable because people lettheir guard down because there
was, like, this humorous kind ofmoment.
The setup, right, with humorbefore, maybe the potential,
like, let down of whatever'scoming next in the conversation.
And then I talked aboutempowerment. Humor can challenge

(48:47):
authority. We can use humor tohighlight social issues. We can
use humor to provide even whatI'll call a sense of control.
I'm gonna say this, and I don'treally want any hate mail, but I
do want the listeners to thinkabout one thing. Do you embrace
the belief or have you saidhistorically, man, I'm a control

(49:11):
freak. And do you or have youhistorically said, I'm a funny
guy or gal? If you pair those 2together, you might wanna think
about that for a second. Becauseare you using humor to enable
yourself to be the control freakand create a mist of falsality
that you're not actually incontrol of anything.

(49:34):
Again, I

don't Mist of falsality? What?

I don't want hate mail. So that's anyway,
with something like humor thathas so many vectors to it, it
has the potential to be a bigpart of our lives, and it is.
And we can either pay attentionto the part that it plays in our
life, humor, or not. But Ipersonally would suggest to pay

(49:58):
attention to the part humorplays in your life. Because if
you slice it, dice it, diagnoseit, it just might say a lot
about who you are under thesurface.
And, oh, god. I just don't evenknow if I wanna say this part.

But You're gonna say it.

It might say a lot about who you are under the
surface or maybe even howhealthy you are under the
surface. Liz, what are yourthoughts on my whole humor
diatribe?

I couldn't agree more. I mean, there was a reason
why I corrected myself earlierwhen I was speaking and I said,
you know, it helped me heal thewound up. I'm like, wait. Nope.
It didn't heal.
It just covered it. And that'swhat I think is fascinating
about this. Humor becomes amask. Humor becomes a shield.
Humor can be a weapon.
There's this great quote fromRavi Shankar who says the
intelligent use humor as ashield against humiliation. The

(50:48):
cruel use humor as a sword toinsult others. The irresponsible
use humor to escape fromresponsibility. The fool takes
humor too seriously. Humor isspontaneous to make an effort to
be humorous makes no sense.
What I love about this quote isis that it speaks to the fact of
something that's reallyimportant that I wanna point out
here, which is that humor is nota
bad thing. We're not suddenly saying, we all need

(51:09):
to be serious Sallys who nevermake a joke
and, like, really, that's funny. Lordy.
That's that's not what we'retalking about here. What's
actually interesting is that inthis book, underneath the
description, it talks aboutthese things kind of in
energies. Right?
Like, this humorous jokestertrickster energy, however you
wanna think about it. Right? Ittalks about what does it look
like when it is in balance, whatit is like out of balance, and

(51:31):
how to bring it back intobalance if you're struggling
with it. So it talks about thatwhen you're in balance with this
energy, you're still charming,you're witty, you're fun to be
around. But when you're out ofbalance, you're scrappy, you're
petty, you're suspicious.
And then what I love is that itsays to bring it into balance,
sobriety. You can think aboutthat in the most literal

(51:52):
contexts in terms of, like,like, if you drink, if you do
other things, or just a matterof, hey. Maybe I just need to
take off the mask for a secondand be really honest with myself
about what is going on here.Because one of the things I've
noticed particularly in the pastmonth as we've tried to record
this podcast. It it it's sofunny.

(52:13):
I'm starting to think about,like, there's a huge difference
between how I would haveanswered these questions a month
ago versus today. Because whenI'm thinking about what makes it
so freaking attractive is thatit is so malleable. We are not
always just the intelligentshielding against humiliation.
We're not always just the cruelusing it to insult others. It is

(52:34):
something we can pull out anduse at any time when some part
of us is feeling under threat.
Whether that is an externalthing that is coming toward us
or something that is an imaginedboogeyman from deep things
either, you know, in our past,in our childhood. And so
recently, here's what I'verealized. The other couple of

(52:55):
things that have happened thismonth is I got really sick. I've
never been a big drinker. I usedto be a beer writer, but, like
and I would I used to drink moreprobably socially when I was
younger, but I was talking withmy friend Kathleen Booth
yesterday.
We saw each other, and we bothordered nonalcoholic beers at
the bar. And I said, yeah. Iactually can't remember the last
time I drank. I said, that'sreally funny.

Yeah. I just

couldn't remember because I've been sick. I've
been, like, running around allover the place. I don't really
have a space in my studio tokeep that kind of stuff. And I'm
like, well, you know, maybe it'sjust good, you know. I'll I'll
have it if I go out withfriends.
And I'm noticing now that overthe past month, I have slowly
been pulling away all thedistractions.

So it's interesting because well, first
of all, there's a couple thingsI wanna unpack. 1, as you were
talking, I feel like theuniverse reached out and just
smacked me across the facebecause I started this podcast
with, like, 123. No. No. Hey.
We're gonna do it. When you weretalking, I literally heard this,
like, still small voice in theback of my head, and it said,

(53:56):
see it wasn't no. It was wait.Yeah. Wait for the conversation.
It's brewing. It's percolating.It's not ready yet. But when
it's ready, I'll let you pour anice juicy cup of, like, humor
as a shield. And if you payattention to your goals, I'm
still doing good stuff.
I'm still getting it ready. AndI'm like, oh, okay. Like, I

(54:17):
literally, like, got thetingles. Like, I didn't say no.
I said wait.
The other thing too that I wannago back to, Liz, is that okay.
Earlier in the podcast, wetalked about how you lost, like,
50 some pounds. Now in thepodcast, we're talking about how
you're basically detox in yourbody because you had they can't
remember when you drank. Soyou've lost weight and you don't

(54:38):
have the chemicals in your bodythat you historically had. Why
do you think you can't sleep?
Because your body's like, we'redoing all sorts of changes here.
Things aren't firing the waythat they used to. We have to
pay attention to all thosemicros.

Well, here's the other thing too though from a
psychological perspective, thisis where it gets fascinating.
What would happen if you tookyour goal seriously? Sometimes
the best way you can take yourgoal seriously is to not
actively focus on them. I havebeen desperately seeking
meaning, purpose, understanding,a level of self love that I
don't think I've everexperienced. That has been my
journey for the past 18 monthsor so and it has been equal

(55:12):
parts excruciating andenlightening and just
exhilarating.
I love it. But if I think aboutthis past month, it has really
started to crystallize, like,Liz, you used to hide behind
food as much as you hid behindhumor. You drank, and that's
fine. You know, like, it I'm notcriminalizing that either. And
your girl still loves a goodbourbon.

(55:33):
She's not gonna say no to like,you know what I mean? Like,
they're it's one of thosethings, but all of a sudden and
we even talked about this justat the start of this episode.
I've stopped holding on as much.I'm not as, like, oh, it's gotta
look like this. Oh, I have to beconstantly busy.
Like, I've stopped going to acoffee shop that I usually go
to a lot Yeah.
Because I feel really distracted. And all of a
sudden, I have created acontainer from which, like, I'm

(55:56):
only realizing this literallyright now while we're recording
this podcast. I have forcedmyself into a space where I can
no longer hide.

Yes. Which is exciting is

beep. It's makes me wanna vomit, but it's fine.
It's fine.

Makes me joyous.

Love it.

I think that that's where we reach the
magical spaces is where when weremove all shadow of doubts of,
like, this is an empty room, andthere's nowhere to hide. And
people can see me for who I am,and I have to see myself as who
I am. And it makes me wanna goto, like, this conversation I

(56:37):
have with, like, god eyes. Iactively ask, like, please let
me see myself with God eyes. Notmy eyes, because I'm my worst
enemy.
But let me see myself with Godeyes, because then I'm probably
gonna be able to make it throughalmost anything that the
universe throws my way.

This is so weird because I'm sitting here
thinking about this question,and and and what we're talking
about here is what would happenif you take your goal seriously?
What would happen if youbelieved you were worthy of even
setting goals? What would happenif you believed you were worthy
of achieving them? You know,because a very dear friend of
mine, I woke up yesterdaymorning. He had sent me at 4 AM
a TikTok about golf.

(57:16):
And in my head, I'm like, Dan,you delightful
beautiful snowflake. I don't play golf. I
went to a
driving range, And so he sent me this thing and
I'm watching him like, I don'tunderstand anything of what And
so he sent me this thing and I'mwatching him, like, I don't
understand anything of what isbeing said here. So I don't,
like, watch it 15 times. I'm,like, googling, like, what is
firing at the flag? What is pinhigh? Like, I have no idea what

(57:40):
any of this means.
It was Tiger Woods being askedwhat is one of the best pieces
of advice he ever got. Oh. Holdon. I'll bring it up because I
shared it with a friend becauseI was, like,
my friend Dan just sent me this weird thing. I
don't understand it.
And then about a few minutes later, I'm, like,
oh, this makes sense.

We're gonna make sure we put this in the
show notes too.

Oh, I will. So it's Tiger Woods being asked
about the best piece of advicehe ever got, and it's to not
shoot haphazardly. You have topick a spot, your spot. You
define what that spot is. What'sinteresting is that spot is very
rarely shooting directly at thehole.
It may be to the left of it. Itmay be to the right of it, but

(58:19):
you define what that spot is.Most people will just aim for
the hole in golf and, like,shoot for the best, but you have
to pick your spot. And then onceyou do, you go after it
aggressively and without fear.

Damn.

I know. So I wrote it back. I'm like, it took
me 20 minutes to decipher this,but damn.

Yeah. Like, that's there you go.

Dan, it's 4 AM. Are you okay?

Yeah. Right.

What are the costs of such an approach? When
you think about the true becausewe talk about, like, personal
bank accounts, energetic bankaccounts, emotional bank
accounts. What is the costthat's coming out when we live
this way?

Yeah. It's funny. My brain raced to, like,
and it's been years now, whichis crazy to say when you said,
what would happen if you showedup as your authentic self. And
so I I my brain rushed to that,and I was like, well, the first
word that comes to mind is,like, in inauthentic. Like,
you're just not able to be you,which is sad.

(59:20):
There's only one you on theplanet. You are magically
designed to, like, do somethingspecial, and you can't be you
because you're letting humoractually control your life
versus you diagnosing andcontrolling the humor. I think
about the diversion anddeflection that I mentioned
earlier. Right? If you'redeflecting and diverting, we're

(59:43):
not showing our authenticselves.
We are literally hiding behindthat shield or that mask that
we've referenced of humor. Whenwe do that, we end up creating a
facade. We mask our truefeelings. We hinder our genuine
emotional expressions and,worse, our genuine connections

(01:00:05):
with the humans around us, whichthen totally makes us feel alone
and on an island by ourself. Ittotally destroys potential
trust, liking, love on the otherside of the relationships.
And I think this could be due toa couple of reasons or lead
maybe to a couple of of issues.So get a piece of paper, get a

(01:00:28):
box, write a box, check the boxif any of these, like, make
sense to you because we're gonnado, like, some good stuff. Well,
we're gonna do some maybeharmful stuff and some good
stuff. So first thing I want youto think about is emotional
avoidance.

Liz Moorehead (01:00:43):
Oh, come on, man.

George B. Thomas (01:00:45):
Yeah, right to the jugular like using humor to
deflect serious issues canprevent us as humans
individuals, from addressingunderlying problems, which leads
to unresolved emotionaldistress. If you're living a
life or trying to live a lifebeyond your default with
unresolved emotional distress,it's like trying to climb a

(01:01:08):
cliff with a Volkswagen bugstrapped to your back. It is
almost impossible to reach thetop of that cliff and continue
on the journey. We have to checkthat little box if that's
something that we know we needto work on. We have humans
around us at work, at home,wherever.
We go out, emails, calls, but itmight lead human humor in the

(01:01:30):
wrong way, might lead torelationship strain, excessive
humor or inappropriate humor.Why is it that, like, 3 people
just flooded into my brain whenI said that? Anyway,
inappropriate humor can harmrelationships and reduce trust,
especially when used to mock orbelittle others. Liz, this is

(01:01:51):
exactly what I was talking aboutwhen I said years as a sword,
and I try not to do thisanymore. Also, if we use humor
too much as a shield, we can bemisunderstood, leading to
unintended, for sure, times whenwe offend people, or definitely,
it can lead to the escalation ofconflicts that we've had in our

(01:02:15):
lives.
I can probably give you about a1021 times where somebody in my
life, many times my wife, manytimes my kids, sometimes my
parents, I've tried to behumorous, and it just did not
work, ladies and gentlemen. Itwent south and actually
escalated the conflict. Oh, soyou think it's a joke? Oh my

(01:02:37):
gosh. Okay.
But to live a more full andauthentic life, we have to
become skilled at balancinghumor with sincere emotional
engagement. And, Liz, I lovethat you shared that quote
because I was like, this ismaybe one of the dopest quotes,
and especially when it got tothis part. Because, by the way,

(01:02:58):
if somebody came up to you onthe street and said, let me ask
you, is your goal to beirresponsible? You'd be like,
no. My goal is not to beirresponsible.
Irresponsible. That's juststupid. Why would you ask me
that? Yet, think about thiswhole conversation today. The
irresponsible use humor toescape from responsibility.
Are you using humor as an escapemechanism? I'll let that just

(01:03:21):
sit there for a second for you.So, Liz, we'll talk about some
good stuff here in a minute, butwhat are your thoughts on that?

You know, you could always be cliche.
It's a it's a life unlived.
It's an in like, and we talked about this, like,
an inauthentic life. It's notthat I disagree with those
things, but when I reread thisquestion after having written
it, it was interesting to mewhere my brain is going now,
which is for a while there, thecost of answering that question
was too great a cost because Iwas afraid of what I would find.

Damn.

Because the one thing I don't think I've ever
shared with you is that everysingle time you talk about the
moment you had that conversationwith me and I said, what would
happen if you showed up as awhole assu human and it opened
you up? Yeah. So when I askedmyself that question, because
that that's what happensafterward.

Right.

I didn't know how to answer it Mhmm. Because I
didn't know who I was. And soevery time I watched you get
empowered by that question andbring up that story, it was just
this reminder of, and who thebleep are you? And so I avoided
it for a very long time. Now tobe clear, also, every time we
talked about it, I was it wasdeeply fulfilling because that
is my work.
That is what I do. But often Ifind myself in situations where,

(01:04:33):
you know, I spend half of mywaking hours actually, the
majority of my waking hoursempowering people to be whole
ass humans, to be whole assversions of themselves. And I
know it's like a joke, you know,don't versions of themselves.
And I know it's like a joke,
you know, those who can't do teach, those who
can't play coach. Like, but like
but, like, that's a deeply existential way to have
a disconnect. You know? Like butwhen I think about it, like, the
reason why I wanted to talkabout this even though it made

(01:04:55):
me deeply uncomfortable and thereason why I'm glad we're
finally having this conversationis that the cost of answering
this question is a lot. It'spainful. You have to go to dark
places in some cases and youalso have to admit there's that
sunken fallacy cost thing.
Right? Like, we'll keep pouringenergy and literal money into
things even though we knowthey're bad for us just because

(01:05:16):
we can't walk away. Like, we'realready too invested. But then
there are things, like, with mewhere it's, like, well, do you
even know what a whole assversion of Liz is?
But the
thing is the actual cost of not doing this,
the actual cost of not beingwilling to open this up is just
what you said. It is that lifeunlived. It is wildly
inauthentic. You will chasethings that do not feed you

(01:05:39):
because you have no internalcompass with a true north that
is set that helps you discernwhat is for you, what is not for
you. You are chasing temporaryhighs versus lasting things.
Are you entertaining or are youeffective?

It's interesting you he mentioned
cost. I want people to realizeand you like, a sunken cost. But
in the other way, I look at thecost as, like but it's an
investment that you'll getreturns on.

Yeah. And I think that's a difference. Like, the
cost of just continuing to wieldhumor as a shield, a tool, a
weapon with no thought as to whyyou're here, you know, that is a
cost. That is death by papercut. That is something that will
not literally kill you, but itwill kill you.
You will wake up one day lookingin a mirror going, what am I

(01:06:29):
doing? Who even am I? Like, acomplete disassociation. But
then the turnaround is, like, itis an investment to sit down and
say, alright, guys. How did weget here?
Who's walking this pony? Thechallenge this poses to us all
is to question what would happenif we took our goal seriously.
Right? Like, that's where thiswhole conversation began. So,
George, the final question Ihave for you today is to you,

(01:06:53):
what does taking your goalseriously look like in practice?

And I may be weird or this may be for, like,
most of us humans. I think,actually, most of us humans
probably look at this question.We'll look at this question
differently. It really just doesdepend on the goal, and it
depends on where you're at inyour journey. But for me,
there's some core concepts thatI think all of us have to have

(01:07:17):
in place if we take our goalsseriously and truly try to build
a life beyond our default.
The first one and by the way, Idon't know if I had heard this.
Listen. This is gonna be alittle bit of an inside joke. I
don't know if I had heard thispre 2012 in HubSpot Academy. K?
But I've heard it a metric buttton in the years since. And that

(01:07:41):
is this concept of clearplanning, and the first time I
heard smart goals.

Oh my gosh.

Defining specific, measurable,
achievable, relevant, and timebound goals. If you're like, oh,
I'm not in the HubSpot Academyecosystem, and, actually, I
haven't really heard of SMARTgoals versus just setting my
goals, then you'll probablywanna jot down specific,
measurable, achievable,relevant, and time bound because

(01:08:10):
that truly is a great frameworkfor building great goals and
create a detailed action planwith milestones versus I have a
goal, and really what you haveis a wish or a dream because
there's totally differentthings. So clear planning would
be the thing for me, like andyou know, like, when I have a

(01:08:31):
goal, there's usually a list ofthings that is coming around
with that goal as well. Theother piece, and some of us have
issues with this, but you gottabe willing to commit. I did
HubSpot so far for 12 years andHubSpot content for 10.

(01:08:52):
I'm very committed. I'll bemarried next year 24 years. And,
again, some people havecommitment issues, but you have
to get real good at commitment.And what this looks like for me
is, like, dedicated time andresources based on keeping me
consistent and prioritizingtasks related to the goals, the

(01:09:16):
smart goals that we just talkedabout above, making sure to
watch out for distractions thatare gonna come along the way. By
the way, we could be thedistraction.
Something external could be thedistraction, but how do you stay
committed with dedicated timeand resources and prioritizing
tasks and staying away fromdistractions. This is how you're

(01:09:39):
gonna reach those smart goals.The other piece, and if you're
in that world that Liz and Italked about earlier where it's,
like, lonely or on an island byyourself, there's 2 parts to
this. But the third thing Iwanna mention, and it's been
huge in my life, by the way,I've used Facebook Reels as this
partner historically. When Ifirst started taking my walks, I

(01:10:02):
would do a Facebook Reel, and Iwould, like, put it down and,
like, I'm out here because Iwanted people to see that I was
out there because it was myaccountability partner.
What I mean by this is you haveto track your progress regularly
and adjust your strategies asneeded and hold yourself

(01:10:23):
accountable. But also you needto be looking for external
accountability if you can. Andthat could be as easy as sharing
your goals with a mentor or asupport group or a friend. Or
like I just said, I was sharingit with Facebook mess or
Facebook Reels every time I'd goout my door and I'd start my
walk and just be like I'd say acouple things around my brain

(01:10:45):
and show my feet little feetgoing down the sidewalk. Like,
this is the dumbest thing ever,but it's my accountability
partner.
We've done a whole episode onthis next one that I wanna hit,
and that is like a growthmindset. But just in general,
let's back up 50,000 foot andjust talk about focus on growth.
Like, if you're gonna reachthose goals, you're gonna have

(01:11:07):
to do something different tobecome what you've never become.
I stole that quote. I don'tremember who said it, but you're
gonna have to to do thosedifferent things.
You're gonna have to embracelearning and development to put
the new things in you to get thenew results that push you to
your goal. And so during thatyou educational process, you

(01:11:27):
might seek feedback. You'regonna definitely acquire new
skills, and you're gonna be ableto adapt to the challenges that
come along the way with thosevery specific measurable,
achievable, relevant, and timebound goals that you're actually
trying to hit upon. And, Liz,before, like, beyond your

(01:11:48):
default in general podcast

Mhmm.

This one would have never showed up. But the
other thing that I wanna mentionas we kinda close this bad boy
out is self care.

My gosh. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. Yes. Yes.
For those of you, if this isyour first episode, go back to
our self care episode in whichwe discussed George questioning
whether we should even have thetopic. So we've come a long way,
baby.

Look. Maintaining a healthy work life
balance and being able tosustain long term motivation and
productivity is crucial and key.And the only way that you're
gonna get that long termmotivation, productivity, or
long term life is if you don'tburn that candle at both ends,

(01:12:33):
if you don't break that candleinto 17 pieces because you're
just like, whatever. So youdefinitely have to have self
care for yourself during thejourney of trying to actually
achieve those goals that you aretaking seriously. And listen.
I wanna circle back around andjust say using humor as a shield

(01:12:55):
or weapon can negatively impactour goals by serving as a
distraction, diverting ourattention from serious tasks,
and undermining the focus neededfor the achievements that we're
trying to get to. It can usingit, humor, can lead to avoidance
where individuals rely on humorto cope with stress or conflict.

(01:13:19):
This presents us from addressingunderlying issues and results in
I have had historically problemswith this word, by the way.
Procrastination. Anybody else?
Just me? No. In nah. Never.Inappropriate humor can strain
professional and personalrelationships reducing the
support network crucial forachieving the goals that you're

(01:13:41):
now taking seriously.
And overuse of humor,particularly in professional
settings, can harm one'scredibility and hinder
opportunities. My grandpa usedto say this thing, and I love it
because it fits in here, butalso it just is a good life
advice. It's better to be quietand be thought a fool than open
your mouth and remove all doubt.And so, like, being careful of

(01:14:05):
what you say and how you say it,especially around humor and
understanding that could be adirect line of your credibility
or hindering it and theopportunities or advancements or
collaboration that you may havein the future. On the flip side,
though, let's end on a positivenote.
Humor can significantly aid inachieving the goals by providing

(01:14:26):
emotional relief and reducingthe stress along the journey,
which enhances focus andproductivity. Humor helps create
a positive mindset, making iteasier to tackle challenges and
setbacks with resilience. Humoralso strengthens social bonds,
improving collaboration andsupport from colleagues and
peers, friends and family. Andappropriate humor can enhance

(01:14:50):
team dynamics and create a moreenjoyable work environment in
professional settings, boostingoverall morale and motivation of
you and the team. So bymaintaining a balanced use of
humor versus always shield oralways sword or whatever version
of this for you works.
You can create an atmosphereconducive to achieving those

(01:15:14):
goals that you're now actuallybelieving that you can achieve
and dare I add effectivelyliving a life beyond your
default.

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