Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George B. Thomas (00:03):
True persistence is sustainable only
when it's fueled by clarity,balanced by rest, and adaptable
to change. It's not about howhard you or we push, but it's
about knowing when to moveforward, or when to pivot, or
(00:26):
when to pause or when torecharge. If you stay connected
to your why, celebrate yoursmall wins and honor your
individual human rhythm,persistence becomes a powerful
tool for growth, not just agrind, a hustle to endure.
(00:50):
That's what keeps you movingmore no matter how tough the
road gets.
Liz Moorhead (00:56):
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your
host, Liz Morehead. And asalways, I am joined by one of my
favorite humans on this planet,George b Thomas. Hey, buddy.
Look at you dancing thismorning.
Look at you dancing your way upto the mic. What do you got
going on over there?
George B. Thomas (01:11):
You know, it's, it's a good life. It's a
good day to have a good day, assome of my friends, like to say
and then laugh after thatbecause they realize it's kind
of a dumb saying. But it is agood day to have a good day. How
are you doing, Liz?
Liz Moorhead (01:24):
You know, I'm doing really well. I gotta be
honest. Over this past week, youknow, you and I have been
cooking up some fun stuff behindthe scenes that I think our
audience is really going tolike, But there's something that
happens when you start workingon things and your soul perks up
and goes, this is what you'resupposed to be doing. And it's
(01:46):
just and I think that's and Iwanted to bring that up today
because, you know, over the pastfew episodes, we've been talking
about the 4 cornerstones of thesuperhuman framework. Right?
We've been talking aboutpurpose, passion. Today, we're
talking about persistence, andthen the final one is love. And
it's all about that emotional,spiritual, holistic engine
George B. Thomas (02:07):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:07):
That moves us forward. And so what's been neat
about it is just I mean, I foundmyself working super late some
nights just because I can't putsomething down.
George B. Thomas (02:18):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:19):
You know? I've been Same. Same. It's been and
just that feeling of this iscapital t, the capital w work.
This is the work.
George B. Thomas (02:31):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:31):
And that has felt incredible. How about you? How
are you today?
George B. Thomas (02:34):
So I I'm doing good. It's funny because I too
am having this mental,dichotomy. Is that the right
word that I'm looking for where
Liz Moorhead (02:42):
You know what? Today, it can be. It's early in
the morning. Why not?
George B. Thomas (02:45):
I don't know. And let's just use it. But where
I know that I have work to do.Like, I have clients that I
love. I have employees, youknow, and family members that I
love, and I've gotta do workaround with and for them.
But there's this thing that I'mlike, oh, man. I really wanna be
working on this. Like, I wannabe doing this because and it's
(03:08):
funny because it aligns withwhat we've been talking about.
It's like, it it so aligns to mypurpose on the planet. It's
something that I am superpassionate about, which which is
fun and funny all at the sametime because I didn't realize I
was gonna be as passionate aboutit until we actually birthed it.
And it and it and it started togrow from an infant to, like, a
(03:31):
child and now maybe even, like,a teenager where I'm like, oh,
man. Like, I'm super passionateabout this. I'm it's it feels
like it's, like, my next purposein life, but I still gotta I
still gotta pay the bills. Like,now if I was a millionaire, I'd
be like, let's drop everythingand just work on this thing.
Liz Moorhead (03:50):
Focused on this. But yeah.
George B. Thomas (03:51):
But that's not where we're at. And and and,
again, and I don't mean dropeverything as in, like, not do
it, but I figure a different wayto make sure we are taking care
of the humans that I love andand you know? Yeah. Because
because I'm a good human.
Liz Moorhead (04:03):
We love our humans.
George B. Thomas (04:03):
But but but I'm I'm in the same place with
you around this kind ofsuperhuman framework, what's
coming next. And so that hasbeen, like last night. Right?
Worked all day helping humans,sat on the couch, was watching
TV with the fam, but I was alsoI had my laptop on my lap
because I was working on stuffthat I just I because I was
(04:26):
working on stuff that I just Icouldn't let it go. I wanted to
be able to, like, get to thenext level with it.
And sometimes, you've gottaspend the extra time to get you
to a place that you wanna be inthe future. And I'll never
forget. Last night, Liz, I wasliterally by the way, not why
we're here, but I was sitting onthe couch with my laptop. And I
(04:48):
called back to a story that Ihad heard and admired and loved
and saw the fruition of. And andmy my brain traveled back to
when Marcus Sheridan would tellthe story of him coming home at
night and writing blog articlesand creating content and and
learning what inbound marketingwas.
(05:09):
And and he had no idea what thatchange would make to his life or
who he would become through thethings that he was doing in the
evenings with that extra stuff.And I was like, oh, this is I I
feel this is my I'm I'm givingmyself a future gift. I'm giving
myself a future gift. I don'tknow what that gift looks like
(05:30):
yet. This time, it's not timethat I'm just wasting.
It's not time that I'm just,like, staying busy. It it's
purposeful based on a passion,and and this is me in action
being persistent to get to thefuture present.
Liz Moorhead (05:48):
You know, George, your story, you know, we didn't.
I love these types ofconversations because as much as
we do plan these episodes out indetail, we don't know the
stories that we're gonna show upwith personally. And what I'm
hearing is a recurring theme ofpersistence. Right?
George B. Thomas (06:05):
Yep.
Liz Moorhead (06:05):
And that, as I've mentioned, is what we're talking
about today. It's one of thecornerstones of the superhuman
framework. It's one of the mostimportant ones. Right? Because,
you know, passion wakes you up.
Right? It's
George B. Thomas (06:18):
the spark
Liz Moorhead (06:19):
that lights the fire. It's the thing that go
makes your whole body go, yes.And your purpose is, yeah, it's
what gives you that direction.It's what gives you that
guidance. It's that compass thatbrings clarity and focus to your
passion.
Yeah. But persistence is how youkeep moving forward.
George B. Thomas (06:38):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (06:38):
When it's easy, when it's hard, when it's
somewhere in between. But what Ifind interesting about
persistence, George, is that it,I think, personally, it's pretty
misunderstood. You know, when Ihear persistence, right, it
reminds me of a conversationwe've had a number of times on
this podcast when we talkedabout the idea of healthy
hustle, one of the 10 h's of thesuperhuman framework. People
think persistence, People thinkthe negative side, the never
(07:03):
stop mentality, the toxicityaround that. But instead, what
it really is is this idea todeliberately move forward.
You make the conscious choice tokeep moving forward with
purpose, with passion, withintention regardless as to
whether the motivation is thereor not. Yeah. So that is what we
(07:25):
are talking about today. Right?Yeah.
So I'm really excited for thisepisode because I want to say
something like, if you've everfelt like you've run out of
steam or wondered if stickingwith something is worth it and
when I say you, I mean me. Ithink we've all been there. I
think no matter how growthmotivated and how hungry you
are, there are going to bemoments where you're just like,
(07:47):
what the flip am I doing?
George B. Thomas (07:49):
Yeah. I
Liz Moorhead (07:50):
would wanna talk about that today.
George B. Thomas (07:52):
I would even add in there, Liz. Like, if
you've ever said that you'rehard headed or stubborn, it's
those are negative connotations,but, like, I don't know if I
fully realized until the deepdives of what we've been doing
over the last year plus withbeyond your Default and now, you
(08:13):
know, several months with thesuperhuman framework, I've
always said, oh, I'm justbullheaded or stubborn or
hardheaded. You know what?Actually, I'm just a persistent
badass. Like like, it's a it's asuperpower that we can have as
humans of this idea of beingpersistent.
So, anyway, just rethink abouthow maybe you think about
(08:36):
yourself when it comes to thetopic that we're gonna cover
today.
Liz Moorhead (08:40):
You know, and I'm gonna throw out there for our
listeners. We did one of ourfirst episodes way, way back in
the day when so much was sodifferent in our lives. We had a
episode dedicated to thelanguage you use and how you
talk about things and the wordsthat you apply to things. I
would recommend that as a nicecompanion episode to what we are
gonna talk about today becauseso much of it is about language.
(09:01):
In fact Yeah.
George, let's just dig rightinto this conversation. I know a
lot of people talk aboutpersistence, but what is it
really? There are a lot ofreally crappy definitions flying
out there, so I'd love to knowhow you define it and the role
it should play in our lives.
George B. Thomas (09:16):
Yeah. And, you know, Liz, it's funny because
most people when they talk aboutpersistence, and you even kind
of leaned into this, they thinkof it as this kind of, like,
grinding endlessly, like, justpushing through no matter what,
like, walking through the muckand bier because I have to
because there's no other option.But, honestly, that's not how I
(09:37):
see it, and and it's definitelynot how the superhuman framework
defines persistence. To to me,persistence isn't about, like,
this need to exhaust yourself tothe point of burnout because
there are a lot of humans in alot of places personally and
professionally that, like,they're just burnt out. There's
(09:57):
no other way to put it.
For me, it's about resilience.And I know that we're probably
gonna have a episode in thefuture that we just talk about
that word because it keepscoming back up. Resilience.
Resilience. Resilience.
Liz Moorhead (10:10):
In 2 episodes, my guy. Get excited.
George B. Thomas (10:13):
There you go. I am I'm always excited. But but
today, when we're talking about,like, resilience, it's it's also
about adaptability. It's aboutmaking the kind of deliberate
choices that we need to make tokeep moving forward. Even when
things feel hard, are hard, whenthey feel uncertain, they they
(10:33):
are uncertain, or I I've beenthere.
I'm sure you have too, Liz,listeners. They they just look
downright impossible.Persistence is this cornerstone
that holds everything elsetogether when life throws you
the curveballs that it's gonnathrow you. You've got passion,
again, to light the fire,purpose to guide the way, and
(10:54):
love to sustain you. And by theway, I can't wait to talk about
love, which will lead intoresilience.
But persistence, that's thequiet, steady force that keeps
you walking towards the goal orgoals that you have even when
the fire flickers, when when thewhen the path isn't clear, when
(11:17):
when it just feels like it's allhard to find. Right? And so
here's the thing. Persistence isoften misunderstood because it
doesn't look flashy. It's notalways loud or obvious, which
again is why I think it candisguise itself as, like,
hardheaded or stubborn or likelisten.
(11:39):
It's showing up for yourselfwhen no one else is watching.
It's the 1 hundredth rejectionletter and still deciding to
send out that 101st. It's notabout being stubborn or
relentless. It's about beingsmart and intentional, ladies
and gentlemen, about knowingwhat truly matters and staying
(12:02):
committed to those things thattruly matter to you as you move
forward. Liz, the the role ofpersistence plays in all of our
lives is is huge, and the factthat we don't understand it, pay
attention to it, or or lean intoit, the amount that we should.
Listen, listeners, think aboutit. Nothing meaningful ever
(12:24):
happens without it, it beingpersistence. Whether it's
growing a business, nurturing arelationship, developing
yourself as a as a human,persistence is what bridges the
gap between starting somethingand actually seeing it through.
Now listen. I have been that guymany times in my younger life
(12:47):
where I would start somethingand just it would pee.
Nope. Just like but that'sbecause I was building or
training or failing or learningmy way to being able to be
persistent and see the thingsthrough. It's it's when we do
see them through that that'swhen the magic moments of life
start to happen. Persistence, weall have to understand, is the
(13:09):
backbone of this personal growthjourney that we're on because
it's the thing that keeps yougoing long after that that spark
that we all get called initialexcitement. And guess what?
Initial excitement, man, itwears off. It's like
Liz Moorhead (13:25):
It's the honeymoon phase.
George B. Thomas (13:27):
Oh my god. Yeah. 30 seconds in, like, what
choice did I make? Why am Idoing this?
Liz Moorhead (13:34):
Thanks. I hate it here.
George B. Thomas (13:35):
Yeah. Exactly. Right? But but when it's
grounded in purpose, when yourpersistence is grounded in
purpose, you're clear about yourwhy, well, now all of a sudden
it can feel empowering. You'renot just pushing forward
blindly, which some of us do.
We get on that, like, hamsterwheel of life, and we're just
(13:56):
like, we can't see that we'restaying in the same place, doing
the same thing over and over.It's in it's insanity. But, see,
with persistence and it beingattached to purpose, you're
you're making a conscious choiceto keep going because you know
what's on the other side of thething and the worth that it is
or the worth that it will bring.So so if listen, I know a little
(14:20):
long winded on that, but if Ihad to define it simply, I'd
probably say it like this.Persistence is the willingness
to keep showing up imperfectly,patiently, and consistently.
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna say thatagain for the listeners.
Persistence is you as a human,your willingness to keep showing
(14:42):
up for yourself and othersimperfectly, patiently, and
consistently because what you'reworking on, what you're doing,
who you're doing it with or formatters. And listen, listeners,
when we live with that kind ofpersistence rooted in our
values, well, then we unlock aversion of ourselves, and I'll
(15:05):
be completely honest. I'mtalking to my I'm preaching to
myself right now. We unlock aversion of ourselves that we
didn't even know existed.
Liz Moorhead (15:14):
You know, it reminds me of a conversation I
had with somebody last year.Last year around this time when
your girl, Liz, was goingthrough some stuff. Just so I
just just, you know, got freshout of a divorce, was I had
thrown everything into a storageunit and just got a short term
rental Airbnb in New Haven,Connecticut because I just did
(15:35):
not know how to functionallymake decisions. And a friend of
mine asked, how are you stillworking, and how are you keeping
it together? I well, first ofall, if you just assume any of
this keeping it together.
Like like like, first of all,number 1 I got you fooled. Yeah.
You know? But then I told her Ihave a rule in life that I call
(15:56):
the bomb rule, the explosionrule, which I think really
aligns nicely with yourdefinition of persistence, which
is when I when things get darkor when things get challenging,
I ask myself one question. Areyou physically going to explode?
No? Well, then you're gonna getup tomorrow, and you're just
gonna keep going. In whatevershape you're in, you have to
(16:19):
keep moving forward. That's allyou can do. And it really helped
me be persistent throughout thelast year, and I'm still not
perfect.
I'm still figuring things out,but it is it is a weird little
rule where it's like, well, I'mnot gonna explode, so what
choice do I have?
George B. Thomas (16:39):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (16:39):
To to stand still?
George B. Thomas (16:41):
I I love that so much. I love that so much
because we all have to havethese triggers or hooks to our
brain, and and yours, the bombthing. For me, it's it's and,
again, I've said it on thepodcast many times, but it's the
1% better each and every day.Like, it is a narrative that
when when gets rough, I whisperinside of my own cranium.
(17:04):
Alright, bro.
1% better each and every day.Like, let's keep just take
another step, dude. Just justtake another step. And by the
way, Liz, none of us will everbe perfect.
Liz Moorhead (17:16):
I know.
George B. Thomas (17:17):
Right? And and the listeners, I want you to
hear this. Like, perfection isnot reality. Progress is 1%
better each and every day.You're not gonna physically
explode.
Just keep taking that step.
Liz Moorhead (17:32):
I love that. I know we've already started
dipping our toes into this pool,but for my next question, I
wanna hear from you. What do yousee as the biggest
misconceptions aboutpersistence? The ones that you
would say are probably the mostcostly to us if we lean into it
or the most insidious anddestructive?
George B. Thomas (17:49):
Yeah. Oh, insidious. Oh, that
Liz Moorhead (17:52):
I know. Isn't that a great burn?
George B. Thomas (17:53):
That's like a super, villain word. That's
city. Like like, here's thething where my brain goes. It
goes in a couple places, ofcourse. You know, that's kind of
how my brain works.
But but let's talk about whenit's time to pivot because I
think that's a big word andsomething that we need to think
about, and we don't naturallythink about pivoting when we
(18:16):
think about persistence. Like,when you think about
persistence, it's like headdown, straight line, make it
through. Like but here's thething. Persistence is is it's
really about resilience. Oh,god.
I'm I'm so excited for thatepisode in in 2
Liz Moorhead (18:32):
2 weeks or
George B. Thomas (18:33):
2 episodes from now. It's about resilience
and smart choices, and it'sabout why small, steady steps
matter more than big, flashyleaps. And so many times in our
life, we're all trying to getthat big, flashy leap, and, like
and it actually stunts theamount that we could go if we
just took those steady stepsthat matter. K? So one of the
(18:56):
biggest misconceptions aboutpersistence is that it's all
about brute force.
Just keep going. Push harder.Grind it out. And, honestly, I
think that, that mindset hasdone more harm than good to a
lot of humans who are like theythink about persistence in that
way. Persistence isn't aboutblindly muscling through every
(19:18):
obstacle that you have in life,nor is it about sacrificing your
well-being on the altar of yourgoals.
And I'm gonna tell you rightnow, there are humans out there
listening to this that you youare sacrificing yourself on the
altar of your goals, and andthat's not persistence. Ladies
and gentlemen, that's burnoutdressed up as ambition, and I
(19:42):
need you to just check yourself.Like, are you are you ambitious,
or you just burnout becauseyou're trying to muscle your way
through? Okay? So anothermisunderstanding is the idea
that persistence means neverquitting while you're a quitter,
which is like, if somebodycalled me a quitter, I'd be
like, no.
But, actually, there's timeswhere I just need to quit.
(20:04):
Right? But but, like, quittingno matter what kind of aligns
with sacrificing yourself on thealtar of your goals. But but
here's the truth. Sometimes realpersistence is about knowing
when to pivot.
And and, Liz, you know this.Listeners, if you've been
listening for a while, you youknow this as well. I love a good
(20:25):
pivot. I genuine I I genuinelybelieve that one of the most
powerful skills that we cancultivate is becoming what a
buddy of mine called me yearsyears years ago. He said, dude,
you're a transition specialist.
It it when when you'repersistent, right, you you you
(20:45):
understand that it's like, yes.It's 1% better each and every
day. It's one little step at atime. But ladies and gentlemen,
it could be a step to the left.It could be a step to the right.
It could be a step back so thatyou can turn in the right
direction. You gotta figure outhow to be a transition
specialist. It's it'srecognizing when to step back,
(21:08):
reassess, or redirect yourenergy towards something that
aligns better with your purposeand your values. You see,
because sometimes we get stuckin this rut of life where we're
doing things for the peoplearound us. I went to school to
be a doctor because my dad was adoctor.
(21:29):
I do this because my boss askedme to do this thing. Does it
align with my purpose or myvalues? Nope. But I keep on
doing it. You see, persistence,again, it's not about stubbornly
sticking to the same path out ofsheer determination.
It's resilience paired withdiscernment. Whoo. I love that
(21:51):
word. The the discernment.
Liz Moorhead (21:52):
We are SAT wording today, professor. Insidious.
Discernment.
George B. Thomas (21:56):
Listen. Ladies and gentlemen. If you don't have
some discernment in your life,that is that is one action step
you could take after. See, it'sit's about being it again, being
persistent. It's about beingadaptable and smart enough to
recognize when continuing topush forward makes sense and,
frankly, when it's just time toshift strategies or focus in on
(22:20):
something else or even focus ina different area of what you're
doing.
One last myth about persistencethat I wanna cover here.
Persistence isn't some grandheroic act that happens
overnight. Poof. Like, that dudeis persistent, like, a cape and
no. People often think it'sabout these massive leaps
(22:41):
forward, but the reality isthat, again, small consistent
steps.
I can't say this enough in thisepisode, the 1%. But 1 percent
is not a lot. It's more than 0.1's most when you wake up in the
morning, do you just levitateand you're at the bathroom? No.
You once like, it's a just anatural order of life. One step
(23:02):
at a time. Consistently. SoWalter Elliott said this,
perseverance is not a long race.It is many short races one after
the other.
You know, that's the fun partabout that when I think about
that is if it's a bunch of shortraces, one after the other, you
know what persistence gives youin that light time to rest till
(23:25):
it's time for the next race? Yousee, true persistence is showing
up for yourself day after dayeven when progress feels
invisible. And that's the funnypart too is, like, have you ever
gone to the gym or you've donesomething for, like, a 100 days,
but you you don't feel thedifference, you don't see the
difference, and then you seesomebody that you haven't seen
(23:47):
for a long time, and they'relike, wow. You look good.
Sometimes that 1% progress, thatindividual steps, that short
couple races that you did to bepersistent, it feels invisible
to you.
But you have to trust yourself.You have to trust the process.
(24:08):
You have to trust the fact thatevery small effort here's
another word for you, ladies andgentlemen, discernment. Every
small effort compounds over timeinto something meaningful. I've
told stories about how I'vedone, like, thousands of HubSpot
tutorials.
Not one of them tutorials wasextra special or amazing, but
(24:30):
the fact that we consistentlydid them for over 8 years and,
like, it compounded compoundinterest because that's
literally building a brand andstarting a business, and then
where we are today with beyondyour default, superhuman
framework, and clients. Foreveryone listening, here's
something that I want you tothink about. And when I say
(24:52):
think about it, it's it'squestions that I want you to ask
yourself around this. How canyou reframe persistence in your
life so it's less aboutrelentless effort and more about
intentional, meaningfulprogress? And are there places
where letting go or pivotingcould actually move you closer
(25:15):
to those goals that you'reseeking?
Now, Liz, I'm super curious.What's your take on this? Like,
how how do you see persistencebeing misunderstood in, like,
the realms and world that youkind of live in?
Liz Moorhead (25:27):
You covered a couple of the big ones for me
that I wanna double click on.First, this idea of persistence,
meaning you have to stick withsomething no matter what, and
you are a failure if you makethe choice to drop something.
And I'm gonna be perfectlyhonest. That one really kind of
left out of the screen, if youwill, as soon as it those words
came out of your face becausenot only did I agree with it,
(25:50):
it's something that I'veactually been not necessarily
wrestling with, but over thepast few weeks, I've really been
auditing because I'm starting toget a lot more fussy about where
my energy is going, and I'mstarting to feel a lot more
friction of why is my energyhere when I know it should be
here. And sometimes the mostdedicated way you can express
(26:12):
persistence in your life is toknow what things not to persist
with so you may persist with theright things, the right people.
And I, you know, I've spent thepast year auditing my life doing
it, but the past couple ofweeks, you know, I'm starting to
notice a greater disparitybetween, I love doing this. Why
am I putting my attention here?And it's it's because there's
(26:35):
that push and pull. And if youdon't get really clear about
what it is you really should bepersistent about, you will be
half assing everything insteadof whole assing the things you
should be whole assing. You knowwhat I mean?
So that is something that leftoff the screen to me. The other
thing I would say too is that topersist at something and then to
(26:59):
fail at that something is not afailure. I think that's one of
the greatest misconceptionsabout persistence is that to
persist at something and to failat something is to not fail. And
it reminds me of a client I hada long time ago at my last
agency, and, he had, you know,founded multiple businesses. He
(27:22):
was a Silicon Valley guy, justabsolutely brilliant.
I loved listening to him talk.And one of the things he said to
me once is that he got ahead inlife because of the way he
perceived his relationship withfailure and that he never saw
failures as failures. He sawthem as instructions on what to
(27:43):
do next. And that is where Ithink about you know, when I was
going through some of my darkestmoments over the past year, and
I will even say over the pastmonth as I'm like, I'm still
trying to refine, focus, show upwhere I need to show up, do the
thing. Okay.
I made a mistake. Get back up.We keep going. I keep thinking
(28:03):
about that idea of I can lookback over the past year and say,
man, look at all these failures,but they brought me closer to
the focus of where I'm supposedto be. You have to be honest
with yourself about why thingsmight get messed up.
You have to be honest withyourself by about why some
things maybe didn't go the wayyou planned them to, but it's
(28:23):
still an overarching act ofpersistence and a commitment to
yourself.
George B. Thomas (28:28):
So So good. Question So good.
Liz Moorhead (28:30):
So question for you. Persistence, though, is
going to look different fordifferent people. Right? Like,
my flavor of persistence is notyour flavor of persistence. So
it becomes how do we define itfor ourselves?
How do we find that sweet spotfor us as individuals?
George B. Thomas (28:47):
Yeah. Which which, by the way, one of the
things that I love as far as,like, host, cohost, host I don't
know who's the host, who's thecohost here, but one of the
things I love about what youbring to the table is the
ability to bring powerfulquestions. I want the listeners
to know that this is a powerfulquestion because of the answer
(29:11):
it enables and the thing thatyou should be putting in your
brain because it does not lookthe same for everybody. So it's
like I can't download atemplate. I can't steal your
blueprint.
Like, this is something you haveto focus on yourself. Listen,
persistence isn't a one sizefits all kind of thing. It's it
(29:32):
it needs to be. It should bedeeply personal. It it's gonna
be shaped by your goals.
It's gonna be shaped by yourvalues. But more importantly,
pay attention to this because Ihave had to, the season of life
you're in. Like, my persistencefor GBT 10 years ago, 20 years
ago looks completely differentthan my persistence right now.
(29:57):
But, again, I've changed. Mygoals have changed.
My values over time have changedor been refined. Right? And so
so the way persistence shows upin your life might look very
different from how it shows upin someone else's life, and it
could be your kids, your wife,your coworkers, like but know
that that's not a flaw. That'sdesign. That's exactly how it
(30:20):
should be.
Liz Moorhead (30:21):
That's both a feature and a bug. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (30:23):
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So to get to the the
deeper part of your yourquestion, like, to start, like,
persistence is all aboutaligning with your why. Right?
And and and if you don't knowyour why, and I would even say
your because. Like, every time Italk about why now, I think
about my buddy, Mick Hunt, whodoes the Mick Unplugged podcast,
(30:44):
and he talks to humans abouttheir because. Yeah. It's it's
amazing. So, like, the the why.
But do you know your why? Like,when you're clear on your
purpose, what truly matters toyou as a human, it becomes
easier to decide where youshould channel your energy and
when to keep going on channelingthat energy in the direction of
(31:07):
your purpose or your why. Forsome, persistence might mean
showing up every day to write aparagraph of a long dream book
that they wanna write. Forothers, it might mean committing
to a challenging conversation.Those are fun.
Or sticking to a new habit thatyou're trying to build. It's not
(31:28):
about comparing your persistenceto anyone else. It's about
defining what makes sense foryou individually as a human for
those goals, for your values,for the season that you're in.
Listeners, I need I need to getyour notepads out for a second,
and I'm dead serious. Get yournotepads out.
Get a pen. Get a pen. Sorry.Okay. Because I want you to
(31:53):
write this down because thisframework that I wanna talk
about, it's a simple framework.
It's not like the wholesuperhuman framework. It's like
a micro framework inside theframework, if you will. It can
help Liz. It can help you. Yeah.
And, yes, yes, here's the thing.Even me approach persistence
with purpose and clarity, makingsure that your my efforts are
(32:17):
intentional and sustainable. Andso I want you to write down
persist. K? Persist.
And it obviously meanssomething. Persist. The p is for
purpose. I want you to alwaysremember to start with your why
Because the purpose is thefoundation of meaningful
(32:38):
persistence, which is gonna giveyou a clear direction and the
motivation to keep movingforward. And I want you for this
p for purpose to ask yourself,what's the bigger picture I'm
working towards?
How does this goal align with myvalues? And you'll write these
down. Now the e is for evaluate.What I want you to do is
(33:00):
regularly check-in withyourself. You see, because
persistence isn't about blindlypushing forward.
It's about learning, adjusting.I called it pivoting earlier in
this episode. And and makingsmarter choices as you go. And
for this e, for evaluate, I wantyou to ask yourself, what's
(33:20):
working well right now, andwhat's not serving me anymore?
Now for the r, this is therhythm.
We all have to find our rhythm.Like, honor the pace of your
life. This just just translatesright into the season and what
you're doing. Like, listen. Somedays call for big leaps and
(33:40):
others are about small steadysteps.
You have to recognize that bothare valuable and part of the
journey that you're on, andyou're trying to be consistent
and persistent. For this one,for the rhythm, I want you to
ask yourself, am I honoring mynatural pace, or am I forcing
progress at an unsustainablespeed? K? The s is for small
(34:09):
wins. I want you listeners tocelebrate every step forward no
matter how small.
Taking time to acknowledge thesewins builds momentum and reminds
you that progress is happening.Remember I talked about that
invisible progress? It's yourjob to remind yourself progress
is happening even if it feelsslow, even if it feels slow. Ask
(34:31):
yourself during this one forsmall wins, what's one small
victory I can celebrate todaythat brings me closer to my goal
or goals? Now the I is forintuition.
If I could just get more humansto trust their instincts, to
listen to their gut, to hear thesmall voice inside their brain.
(34:55):
Persistence is about knowingwhen to push harder and when
it's time to pivot towards abetter path. So for intuition, I
want you to ask yourself, am Icontinuing because it feels
right, or am I pushing throughout of a habit or out of fear?
Now the s is for support, andlife is funner when we actually
have people around us. Sosurround yourself with people
(35:19):
who understand and encourageyour journey.
Leaning on others foraccountability or motivation can
make all the difference in theworld of you being able to stay
persistent to get to those goalsthat you're trying to achieve.
And so for support, I want youto ask yourself, who in my life
can I lean on for encouragementor support right now? If you
(35:42):
don't have an immediate namethat comes to mind, please, that
is a most important next actionstep to figure out that gap to
fill with the right human as youmove forward on this journey. T
is for tenacity. Oh, I love thatword so much.
Stay committed to your goalwhile remaining flexible in your
(36:05):
approach. I'm a say that for thepeople in the cheap seats in the
back. Stay committed. Staycommitted to your goal while
remaining flexible in yourapproach. Listen.
True persistence is aboutbalancing your dedication with
adaptability and how you achieveyour vision that you're headed
(36:26):
to. In this one, I want you toask yourself, how can I stay
committed to my goal whileremaining open to new methods or
new paths? I think if you justthink about persist in these
letters, in these questions thatyou ask yourself, if you use
this simple framework, you canstart to shape persistence in a
way that's not just effective,but also sustainable. And like
(36:50):
we talked about earlier, it'sdeeply personal. And this brings
up another key point.
Persistence doesn't mean pushingfull throttle every single day.
It's about recognizing therhythm that I mentioned earlier
of your life. Listen. It's okayto not take a step because you
(37:10):
know that you're gonna takeanother step another day. It's
okay to sprint because maybe youknow you're almost at the finish
line of the marathon that you'vebeen running.
Both are valid as long as you'removing toward what truly
matters. So so to everyonelistening, I I hope that I can
(37:32):
encourage you to reflect on 2major questions that go align or
align with this persist simpleframework that we've been
talking about. 1, what's thebigger picture that I'm working
towards? That should be at thetop of your notes. What is the
bigger picture that I'm workingtowards?
And right below that, what's onesmall manageable step I can take
(37:57):
today to keep moving in thatdirection? And then under that's
persist. I hope that helps.Listen, by the way, I'd love to
hear your take. You can emailus.
You can hit us up on social.What does persistence look like
for you? But, also, Liz, I'mcurious. What are your thoughts
(38:18):
around this?
Liz Moorhead (38:19):
So I'm actually gonna do a little demonstration,
George, because, you know, it'sfunny. You and I spend so much
time together, but you and Ihave not basically been in a
room together for a little over,what, 2 years. Yeah. So you've
only seen me from, like, thechest up for about 2 years?
George B. Thomas (38:34):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (38:34):
I'm about £80 lighter now.
George B. Thomas (38:36):
Yay. There we go. There we go. Now, listeners,
you'd you'd have to watch thison the the YouTubes or the
whatever, but yes. See, that'swhat I'm talking about.
Liz Moorhead (38:47):
The reason why I bring that up is because
persistence is going to be adifferent flavor, not just
individual to individual, butalso goal to goal. I didn't
start losing weight or actuallygetting healthy until my flavor
of persistence was I am notgoing to chase weight loss.
Weight loss is not the goal. I'mnot gonna step on a scale. I'm
(39:09):
not gonna do anything like thatwhatsoever.
My flavor of persistence was,okay. I have a goal. Now I'm not
gonna think about it. I'm justgonna show up and commit myself
to new systems and habits.Habits.
So persistence became, I don'tcare what you do. You just have
to be inside the walls of thatgym for 30 minutes. You could
(39:31):
sit there and stare at afreaking wall for 30 minutes,
but you have to be inside thegym for 30 minutes. And then it
evolves. The goals changed.
The goals shifted. I spent a lotof time. I know I know people
always talk about metaphoricallyspeaking. You gotta be careful
about staring at your feet.Well, sometimes when you have
big things that you need to do,the only thing you should be
doing is looking at the stepsthat are right in front of you
(39:53):
and not obsessively looking atwhat's on top of the mountain.
George B. Thomas (39:57):
Preach.
Liz Moorhead (39:57):
Because because that's when we get into
situations where we become soobsessed with a goal that we do
not realize the most importantthing we can do is change our
habits and our systems andbecome the person we want to be,
the person who we already are. Iwould say the other thing too
about persistence in terms ofhow we define it for ourselves
(40:17):
is it reminds me a lot of theconversation we had about
purpose. We expect it to be thisbig lightning bolt from the sky.
Purpose is this. It's like thisgreat crystal ball that breaks
open like in, order of thephoenix and Harry Potter, and it
gives the great prophecy.
Right? Like that. But that's butthere's so many
George B. Thomas (40:36):
things that specific.
Liz Moorhead (40:37):
Kind of stuff. Do you know what persistence really
is sometimes? Just making a todo list every single morning and
then just doing the to do list.Persistence is just waking up
and and and and doing the thing
George B. Thomas (40:49):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (40:50):
And and not always questioning everything
constantly all the time.Persistence is wildly unsexy and
unglamorous.
George B. Thomas (41:00):
I like the to do list. My brain wants to say
right below that, right, the todon't list so that you can red
flag yourself of, like, oops.I'm doing one of the to don'ts.
Let me get back to the to dos.Anyway.
Liz Moorhead (41:15):
I love that. So when we think about persistence,
there is always there areextremes to everything. Right?
Persistence is great, and thereare thresholds of when it can
become unhealthy orcounterproductive. So how do you
know when it happens?
How do you know when you getthere?
George B. Thomas (41:33):
Yeah. I'm gonna keep this one simple and
to the point, to be honest withyou. Persistence becomes
unhealthy or counterproductivewhen it stops serving your
purpose and starts draining yourwell-being. I could end there.
I'm not going to, but it's like,that's the lens that I want you
to look at.
(41:54):
When it stops serving yourpurpose and starts draining your
well-being. If you're pushingforward out of habit, out of
fear, or, God forbid, out ofpride Rather than intentional
effort towards a meaningfulgoal, it's it's a sign to step
back and reassess. Why, what,how, when, pivot, yes, maybe, I
(42:19):
don't know. Another big flag iswhen your efforts are causing
harm. Again, whether it'sburnout, whether it's neglecting
important relationships in yourlife, or even if it goes to the
depths of compromising yourvalues.
Now you know persistence is nolonger doing what it's designed
(42:40):
to do for you. The key is tostay connected again to your
why. The key is to be honestwith yourself. The key is to be
honest with yourself aboutwhat's working and what's not.
And I've already said, this inthis episode, but it deserves to
be repeated, Liz.
(43:02):
Sometimes the bravest form ofpersistence is knowing when to
pivot or pause, pivot or pause.Because if you can be brave and
you can understand those times,it's how you're gonna actually
protect what truly matters.Melissa, I'm I'm super curious
(43:23):
on your thoughts of kind ofrecognizing when persistence
might be doing more, let's say,harm than good.
Liz Moorhead (43:32):
You know those moments where you look in the
mirror and you know, like, Igave my all today or I didn't
give my all or I didn't do thisor I did like, you kinda Yeah.
It's that it's that come toJesus moment whenever you lock
eyes with yourself in themirror. You kinda know where
you're at. Honestly
George B. Thomas (43:46):
Yep.
Liz Moorhead (43:47):
Just take a look at yourself in the mirror. You
know, listening to this, Iguarantee you, there are people
right now wondering out loud, isthis the wrong kind of
persistence? And you're asking aquestion you already know the
answer to. You already know.
George B. Thomas (44:00):
But you don't wanna answer.
Liz Moorhead (44:02):
But but you don't wanna answer it because that's
the thing. How do you know whenpersistence becomes unhealthy or
counterproductive? My guess iswe already know. The real
question you need to be askingyourself is why are you denying
the truth? What is the cost youfeel like is not that you're not
willing to pay?
And then you have to counteractthat and understand the cost
(44:23):
that you are not willing to payis much less expensive than the
one you are already paying byYeah. Continuing down whatever
path it is that you have. Sowhen I think about when
persistence becomes healthunhealthy and counterproductive,
it's it's when we start lying toourselves Yep. Or we refuse to
have the tough conversations ormake the important choices that
(44:43):
we need to make.
George B. Thomas (44:44):
Yeah. Which which, by the way I had
Liz Moorhead (44:46):
to do that this week. I had to take a step back
from a couple of things. And Isaid, hey. You know, I gotta I
need I know where my focus needsto be. I know my focus isn't
there the way I need it to be,so I gotta take a step back.
Yeah. Too many yeses. Oh. Gottathrow out a few noes.
George B. Thomas (45:02):
Got gotta do it. We're we're so good at lying
to ourselves.
Liz Moorhead (45:07):
We really are.
George B. Thomas (45:08):
We're we're we're pro and I don't mean you
and I, Liz. I mean, listeners,I'm I'm bringing you I'm
bringing you into this as well.Like, just as as fundamentally
as humans, we are we are pros atlying to ourself, and we we have
honesty is such a key piece tothis conversation we're having,
which I'm trying to think ifwe've actually done an episode
(45:30):
on honesty. We've done 2. Oh,well, there you go.
Go listen to those.
Liz Moorhead (45:35):
We did a whole episode on self deception. We've
been doing this for over a year.It's crazy, isn't
George B. Thomas (45:39):
it? Crazy. The the library of in motion.
Potential growth that you haveat your fingertips, listeners.
Anyway So us too.
Liz Moorhead (45:48):
Let's talk about the role of rest and recovery
and persistence. What does thatlook like?
George B. Thomas (45:52):
Yeah. I mean, it's it's important. I've said
important maybe too many timesin this podcast episode, but it
it can't be overstated. Maybemaybe it's even more than
important. Maybe I'll use adifferent word.
It's like, Liz, it's essential.Here's the funny thing. Rest
isn't the opposite ofpersistence. I don't know why we
(46:15):
think that is sometimes, butrest is the fuel that makes it
sustainable. Without it, we riskburnout.
We lose perspective. We drainthe very energy that we need to
keep going to to be persistentin the pursuit of our purpose
that we're passionate about.Like, I don't want anybody to
(46:37):
look at recovery as it's likestepping away from the goal.
It's it's not. It's it's aboutstepping toward it with renewed
clarity, with renewed focus,with renewed strength because
we've actually taken time torest and recover.
I I I want you to honestly thinkabout it like running a
marathon. Liz, you just did thisa couple weeks ago, I believe.
(47:01):
Ran you did a marathon. Right?
Liz Moorhead (47:03):
I ran a I did a 10 k, and I literally I am I had
friends who asked me, oh, haveyou done a race before of any
kind? So a 10 k is 6 and a halfmiles.
George B. Thomas (47:13):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (47:14):
And I had I've never done a race of any kind
before in my life Yeah. Ever.Yeah. And, last year, I just
went, you know, I'm gonna put mymoney where my mouth is. And so
I bought registration, and Ijust knew no matter what, I was
gonna go across the 4 and a halfmile Bay Bridge in Maryland.
George B. Thomas (47:33):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (47:34):
And I was gonna do it, and I did it. And what was
really funny is I expected thebridge to be the hardest part
because it's, like, straight upfor about 3 miles. Like, it's
and, yeah, my my calves werekilling me and so were my quads,
but, actually, what got me thehardest part was the last, like,
3 quarters of a mile.
George B. Thomas (47:55):
There's a lesson in that lesson.
Liz Moorhead (47:57):
That was the part where I was just like, oh my
god. I I'm saying you heard,like, I've gone over 5 miles,
and it's this last one. And I'mlike, I gotta do it. What am I
gonna do? Stop?
I'm just gonna sit down on theasphalt and decline to finish.
George B. Thomas (48:13):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (48:14):
And it what was crazy to me is that when I got
my finishing time, I had set agoal for myself of how long this
race was gonna take me. And Imade it a point not to really
look to see what I had donebecause the goal was just to
persist to get over that bridge,to get that 6 and a half miles
done, and my pace was 35 minutesfaster.
George B. Thomas (48:35):
There we go. See see yeah. Here's here's the
thing. And, 1, just anunderstanding of the last bit of
your race is gonna be the mostdifficult. So being rested and
rejuvenated or having theability to push through that is
super important.
(48:56):
But also the fact that you werelike, I know that the end goal
is this. Let me just focus onthat, and I can actually beat
it. And so, listeners, this iswhy I'm talking about think of
it like running a marathon, likeLiz just explained. If Liz was
to try to sprint the entire way,if you in life are trying to
sprint I love Liz's face, by theway. If you're listening to this
(49:17):
if you're listening to this, itwas it was priceless.
But but if you try to sprint theentire way, you'll run out of
steam long before the finishline. Rest, pace, rhythm, allow
you to do things likerecalibrate, rehydrate, like,
along the way. And I'm talking alittle bit metaphorically, but
(49:37):
also, like, reality. Inpersistence, like, these moments
of recovery are where the magichappens. They're where they're
where and when we reflect on howfar we've come.
We can reassess our strategies,and and we can reconnect with
our purpose of the whole reasonwhy we're being persistent in
(49:58):
the 1st place. And I think wehave to talk about how rest
actually builds. Here it comes,ladies and gentlemen.
Resilience. Taking theseintentional breaks by the way,
disclaimer.
I am fundamentally preaching tomyself during this next part,
(50:20):
but taking intentional breaks,allows your mind and body to
recover. It makes you strongerfor the next push. It's it's in
these moments that inspirationoften strikes. Problems find
solutions, and motivation isreignited. So you have to ask
(50:40):
yourself, what does that looklike in practice?
It it might mean taking 10minutes during a stressful day
to clear your head. It might bededicating an evening to
something that brings you greatjoy. It might mean stepping away
completely for a weekend torest. Oh, god. Anyway, I said
(51:01):
I'm preaching to myself on this.
Liz Moorhead (51:03):
My problem is every time you say you're gonna
go take a rest, you start a newcompany. So it gets a little bit
Yeah. It gets a little if Idon't hear from you for too
long, my first one is
George B. Thomas (51:11):
the thing.
Liz Moorhead (51:11):
Look at that. He's finally getting some rest. And
then I'm like, wait a minute.Yeah. How about you just Slack
recently?
George B. Thomas (51:16):
Yeah. Listen. Listen. I've I've done all of
those at some point in time inmy life. I don't exactly
remember when some of them were,but that's why I'm preaching to
myself.
We have to take time to do thosethings. And and those are pieces
that I'm trying to get betterat, but the key is to integrate
figure out how to integrate restinto the rhythm and not and not
(51:44):
as a reward for exhaustion, butas an essential part of your
persistence journey. Listeners,I'm curious because I'm also, as
I admitted, learning along theway. How do you make space for
intentional rest so that you cancome back stronger and more
focused? Again, I'd love to geta massive amount of emails or a
(52:06):
massive amount of peoplereaching out on social, but I'm
even more curious
Liz Moorhead (52:10):
email you, George?
George B. Thomas: George@georgebthomas.com. But (52:11):
undefined
I'm actually very curious to ifmany humans are in the same boat
that I am based on theirlisteners to this podcast, and
they're on like journeys. But,hey, I'd like to hear from you.
And, Liz, I'd I'd love to hearyour thoughts on this as well.
Liz Moorhead (52:33):
You can't keep the lights on for anybody else if
you can't keep your own lightson. That's my thought. That's my
whole thought.
George B. Thomas (52:39):
That's a whole thought. So
Liz Moorhead (52:41):
Like I said, like, that that's really it.
George B. Thomas (52:43):
Yeah. So speaking of thoughts, Liz, we've
we've come a long journey. We'reat roughly 50 some minutes, I
think, probably, once this badboy is edited down. Out of all
the things that we've talkedabout, what's Liz's one thing
from this episode?
Liz Moorhead (52:59):
Persistence is the most important promise you can
keep to yourself because youcan't keep any promises to other
people until you learn how topersist for yourself. I spent
decades of my life persistingfor other people and then
wondering why I felt empty. Andit's been a journey over this
past year to really feel worthyof persisting for because that
(53:22):
was I didn't like myself. Didn'tlike myself, didn't love myself,
had very little self worth. Ifelt like Liz is a service and
feel like a human being.
And that started to cometogether. And over the past
week, I've really been focusingon persistence is the most
important promise you can keepto yourself. Because once you
(53:45):
start keeping those promises toyourself, it's not that life
gets easier, but life gets morefulfilling. Because when you
persist on behalf of yourself asopposed to the agenda that other
people set for you, that's whenyour passion, your purpose
starts coming alive. George,what about you?
Take us home. What's your onething that you want people to
(54:05):
remember from this episode?
George B. Thomas (54:07):
Yeah. My, my one thing for this episode, Liz,
is this. Persistence isn't aboutrelentless effort. It's about
intentional, meaningfulprogress. Intentional,
meaningful progress that alignswith your individual, you, the
(54:28):
human's, purpose.
True persistence is sustainableonly when it's fueled by
clarity, balanced by rest, andadaptable to change. It's not
about how hard you or we push,but it's about knowing when to
(54:48):
move forward or when to pivot orwhen to pause or when to
recharge. If you stay connectedto your why, celebrate your
small wins, and honor yourindividual human rhythm,
(55:09):
persistence becomes a powerfultool for growth, not just a
grind, a hustle to endure.That's what keeps you moving
forward no matter how tough theroad gets on this very important
journey to a life beyond yourdefault.
True persistence is sustainable only
when it's fueled by clarity,balanced by rest, and adaptable
to change. It's not about howhard you or we push, but it's
about knowing when to moveforward, or when to pivot, or
(00:26):
when to pause or when torecharge. If you stay connected
to your why, celebrate yoursmall wins and honor your
individual human rhythm,persistence becomes a powerful
tool for growth, not just agrind, a hustle to endure.
(00:50):
That's what keeps you movingmore no matter how tough the
road gets.
Liz Moorhead (00:56):
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I'm your
host, Liz Morehead. And asalways, I am joined by one of my
favorite humans on this planet,George b Thomas. Hey, buddy.
Look at you dancing thismorning.
Look at you dancing your way upto the mic. What do you got
going on over there?
George B. Thomas (01:11):
You know, it's, it's a good life. It's a
good day to have a good day, assome of my friends, like to say
and then laugh after thatbecause they realize it's kind
of a dumb saying. But it is agood day to have a good day. How
are you doing, Liz?
Liz Moorhead (01:24):
You know, I'm doing really well. I gotta be
honest. Over this past week, youknow, you and I have been
cooking up some fun stuff behindthe scenes that I think our
audience is really going tolike, But there's something that
happens when you start workingon things and your soul perks up
and goes, this is what you'resupposed to be doing. And it's
(01:46):
just and I think that's and Iwanted to bring that up today
because, you know, over the pastfew episodes, we've been talking
about the 4 cornerstones of thesuperhuman framework. Right?
We've been talking aboutpurpose, passion. Today, we're
talking about persistence, andthen the final one is love. And
it's all about that emotional,spiritual, holistic engine
George B. Thomas (02:07):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:07):
That moves us forward. And so what's been neat
about it is just I mean, I foundmyself working super late some
nights just because I can't putsomething down.
George B. Thomas (02:18):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:19):
You know? I've been Same. Same. It's been and
just that feeling of this iscapital t, the capital w work.
This is the work.
George B. Thomas (02:31):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (02:31):
And that has felt incredible. How about you? How
are you today?
George B. Thomas (02:34):
So I I'm doing good. It's funny because I too
am having this mental,dichotomy. Is that the right
word that I'm looking for where
Liz Moorhead (02:42):
You know what? Today, it can be. It's early in
the morning. Why not?
George B. Thomas (02:45):
I don't know. And let's just use it. But where
I know that I have work to do.Like, I have clients that I
love. I have employees, youknow, and family members that I
love, and I've gotta do workaround with and for them.
But there's this thing that I'mlike, oh, man. I really wanna be
working on this. Like, I wannabe doing this because and it's
(03:08):
funny because it aligns withwhat we've been talking about.
It's like, it it so aligns to mypurpose on the planet. It's
something that I am superpassionate about, which which is
fun and funny all at the sametime because I didn't realize I
was gonna be as passionate aboutit until we actually birthed it.
And it and it and it started togrow from an infant to, like, a
(03:31):
child and now maybe even, like,a teenager where I'm like, oh,
man. Like, I'm super passionateabout this. I'm it's it feels
like it's, like, my next purposein life, but I still gotta I
still gotta pay the bills. Like,now if I was a millionaire, I'd
be like, let's drop everythingand just work on this thing.
Liz Moorhead (03:50):
Focused on this. But yeah.
George B. Thomas (03:51):
But that's not where we're at. And and and,
again, and I don't mean dropeverything as in, like, not do
it, but I figure a different wayto make sure we are taking care
of the humans that I love andand you know? Yeah. Because
because I'm a good human.
Liz Moorhead (04:03):
We love our humans.
George B. Thomas (04:03):
But but but I'm I'm in the same place with
you around this kind ofsuperhuman framework, what's
coming next. And so that hasbeen, like last night. Right?
Worked all day helping humans,sat on the couch, was watching
TV with the fam, but I was alsoI had my laptop on my lap
because I was working on stuffthat I just I because I was
(04:26):
working on stuff that I just Icouldn't let it go. I wanted to
be able to, like, get to thenext level with it.
And sometimes, you've gottaspend the extra time to get you
to a place that you wanna be inthe future. And I'll never
forget. Last night, Liz, I wasliterally by the way, not why
we're here, but I was sitting onthe couch with my laptop. And I
(04:48):
called back to a story that Ihad heard and admired and loved
and saw the fruition of. And andmy my brain traveled back to
when Marcus Sheridan would tellthe story of him coming home at
night and writing blog articlesand creating content and and
learning what inbound marketingwas.
(05:09):
And and he had no idea what thatchange would make to his life or
who he would become through thethings that he was doing in the
evenings with that extra stuff.And I was like, oh, this is I I
feel this is my I'm I'm givingmyself a future gift. I'm giving
myself a future gift. I don'tknow what that gift looks like
(05:30):
yet. This time, it's not timethat I'm just wasting.
It's not time that I'm just,like, staying busy. It it's
purposeful based on a passion,and and this is me in action
being persistent to get to thefuture present.
Liz Moorhead (05:48):
You know, George, your story, you know, we didn't.
I love these types ofconversations because as much as
we do plan these episodes out indetail, we don't know the
stories that we're gonna show upwith personally. And what I'm
hearing is a recurring theme ofpersistence. Right?
George B. Thomas (06:05):
Yep.
Liz Moorhead (06:05):
And that, as I've mentioned, is what we're talking
about today. It's one of thecornerstones of the superhuman
framework. It's one of the mostimportant ones. Right? Because,
you know, passion wakes you up.
Right? It's
George B. Thomas (06:18):
the spark
Liz Moorhead (06:19):
that lights the fire. It's the thing that go
makes your whole body go, yes.And your purpose is, yeah, it's
what gives you that direction.It's what gives you that
guidance. It's that compass thatbrings clarity and focus to your
passion.
Yeah. But persistence is how youkeep moving forward.
George B. Thomas (06:38):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (06:38):
When it's easy, when it's hard, when it's
somewhere in between. But what Ifind interesting about
persistence, George, is that it,I think, personally, it's pretty
misunderstood. You know, when Ihear persistence, right, it
reminds me of a conversationwe've had a number of times on
this podcast when we talkedabout the idea of healthy
hustle, one of the 10 h's of thesuperhuman framework. People
think persistence, People thinkthe negative side, the never
(07:03):
stop mentality, the toxicityaround that. But instead, what
it really is is this idea todeliberately move forward.
You make the conscious choice tokeep moving forward with
purpose, with passion, withintention regardless as to
whether the motivation is thereor not. Yeah. So that is what we
(07:25):
are talking about today. Right?Yeah.
So I'm really excited for thisepisode because I want to say
something like, if you've everfelt like you've run out of
steam or wondered if stickingwith something is worth it and
when I say you, I mean me. Ithink we've all been there. I
think no matter how growthmotivated and how hungry you
are, there are going to bemoments where you're just like,
(07:47):
what the flip am I doing?
George B. Thomas (07:49):
Yeah. I
Liz Moorhead (07:50):
would wanna talk about that today.
George B. Thomas (07:52):
I would even add in there, Liz. Like, if
you've ever said that you'rehard headed or stubborn, it's
those are negative connotations,but, like, I don't know if I
fully realized until the deepdives of what we've been doing
over the last year plus withbeyond your Default and now, you
(08:13):
know, several months with thesuperhuman framework, I've
always said, oh, I'm justbullheaded or stubborn or
hardheaded. You know what?Actually, I'm just a persistent
badass. Like like, it's a it's asuperpower that we can have as
humans of this idea of beingpersistent.
So, anyway, just rethink abouthow maybe you think about
(08:36):
yourself when it comes to thetopic that we're gonna cover
today.
Liz Moorhead (08:40):
You know, and I'm gonna throw out there for our
listeners. We did one of ourfirst episodes way, way back in
the day when so much was sodifferent in our lives. We had a
episode dedicated to thelanguage you use and how you
talk about things and the wordsthat you apply to things. I
would recommend that as a nicecompanion episode to what we are
gonna talk about today becauseso much of it is about language.
(09:01):
In fact Yeah.
George, let's just dig rightinto this conversation. I know a
lot of people talk aboutpersistence, but what is it
really? There are a lot ofreally crappy definitions flying
out there, so I'd love to knowhow you define it and the role
it should play in our lives.
George B. Thomas (09:16):
Yeah. And, you know, Liz, it's funny because
most people when they talk aboutpersistence, and you even kind
of leaned into this, they thinkof it as this kind of, like,
grinding endlessly, like, justpushing through no matter what,
like, walking through the muckand bier because I have to
because there's no other option.But, honestly, that's not how I
(09:37):
see it, and and it's definitelynot how the superhuman framework
defines persistence. To to me,persistence isn't about, like,
this need to exhaust yourself tothe point of burnout because
there are a lot of humans in alot of places personally and
professionally that, like,they're just burnt out. There's
(09:57):
no other way to put it.
For me, it's about resilience.And I know that we're probably
gonna have a episode in thefuture that we just talk about
that word because it keepscoming back up. Resilience.
Resilience. Resilience.
Liz Moorhead (10:10):
In 2 episodes, my guy. Get excited.
George B. Thomas (10:13):
There you go. I am I'm always excited. But but
today, when we're talking about,like, resilience, it's it's also
about adaptability. It's aboutmaking the kind of deliberate
choices that we need to make tokeep moving forward. Even when
things feel hard, are hard, whenthey feel uncertain, they they
(10:33):
are uncertain, or I I've beenthere.
I'm sure you have too, Liz,listeners. They they just look
downright impossible.Persistence is this cornerstone
that holds everything elsetogether when life throws you
the curveballs that it's gonnathrow you. You've got passion,
again, to light the fire,purpose to guide the way, and
(10:54):
love to sustain you. And by theway, I can't wait to talk about
love, which will lead intoresilience.
But persistence, that's thequiet, steady force that keeps
you walking towards the goal orgoals that you have even when
the fire flickers, when when thewhen the path isn't clear, when
(11:17):
when it just feels like it's allhard to find. Right? And so
here's the thing. Persistence isoften misunderstood because it
doesn't look flashy. It's notalways loud or obvious, which
again is why I think it candisguise itself as, like,
hardheaded or stubborn or likelisten.
(11:39):
It's showing up for yourselfwhen no one else is watching.
It's the 1 hundredth rejectionletter and still deciding to
send out that 101st. It's notabout being stubborn or
relentless. It's about beingsmart and intentional, ladies
and gentlemen, about knowingwhat truly matters and staying
(12:02):
committed to those things thattruly matter to you as you move
forward. Liz, the the role ofpersistence plays in all of our
lives is is huge, and the factthat we don't understand it, pay
attention to it, or or lean intoit, the amount that we should.
Listen, listeners, think aboutit. Nothing meaningful ever
(12:24):
happens without it, it beingpersistence. Whether it's
growing a business, nurturing arelationship, developing
yourself as a as a human,persistence is what bridges the
gap between starting somethingand actually seeing it through.
Now listen. I have been that guymany times in my younger life
(12:47):
where I would start somethingand just it would pee.
Nope. Just like but that'sbecause I was building or
training or failing or learningmy way to being able to be
persistent and see the thingsthrough. It's it's when we do
see them through that that'swhen the magic moments of life
start to happen. Persistence, weall have to understand, is the
(13:09):
backbone of this personal growthjourney that we're on because
it's the thing that keeps yougoing long after that that spark
that we all get called initialexcitement. And guess what?
Initial excitement, man, itwears off. It's like
Liz Moorhead (13:25):
It's the honeymoon phase.
George B. Thomas (13:27):
Oh my god. Yeah. 30 seconds in, like, what
choice did I make? Why am Idoing this?
Liz Moorhead (13:34):
Thanks. I hate it here.
George B. Thomas (13:35):
Yeah. Exactly. Right? But but when it's
grounded in purpose, when yourpersistence is grounded in
purpose, you're clear about yourwhy, well, now all of a sudden
it can feel empowering. You'renot just pushing forward
blindly, which some of us do.
We get on that, like, hamsterwheel of life, and we're just
(13:56):
like, we can't see that we'restaying in the same place, doing
the same thing over and over.It's in it's insanity. But, see,
with persistence and it beingattached to purpose, you're
you're making a conscious choiceto keep going because you know
what's on the other side of thething and the worth that it is
or the worth that it will bring.So so if listen, I know a little
(14:20):
long winded on that, but if Ihad to define it simply, I'd
probably say it like this.Persistence is the willingness
to keep showing up imperfectly,patiently, and consistently.
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna say thatagain for the listeners.
Persistence is you as a human,your willingness to keep showing
(14:42):
up for yourself and othersimperfectly, patiently, and
consistently because what you'reworking on, what you're doing,
who you're doing it with or formatters. And listen, listeners,
when we live with that kind ofpersistence rooted in our
values, well, then we unlock aversion of ourselves, and I'll
(15:05):
be completely honest. I'mtalking to my I'm preaching to
myself right now. We unlock aversion of ourselves that we
didn't even know existed.
Liz Moorhead (15:14):
You know, it reminds me of a conversation I
had with somebody last year.Last year around this time when
your girl, Liz, was goingthrough some stuff. Just so I
just just, you know, got freshout of a divorce, was I had
thrown everything into a storageunit and just got a short term
rental Airbnb in New Haven,Connecticut because I just did
(15:35):
not know how to functionallymake decisions. And a friend of
mine asked, how are you stillworking, and how are you keeping
it together? I well, first ofall, if you just assume any of
this keeping it together.
Like like like, first of all,number 1 I got you fooled. Yeah.
You know? But then I told her Ihave a rule in life that I call
(15:56):
the bomb rule, the explosionrule, which I think really
aligns nicely with yourdefinition of persistence, which
is when I when things get darkor when things get challenging,
I ask myself one question. Areyou physically going to explode?
No? Well, then you're gonna getup tomorrow, and you're just
gonna keep going. In whatevershape you're in, you have to
(16:19):
keep moving forward. That's allyou can do. And it really helped
me be persistent throughout thelast year, and I'm still not
perfect.
I'm still figuring things out,but it is it is a weird little
rule where it's like, well, I'mnot gonna explode, so what
choice do I have?
George B. Thomas (16:39):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (16:39):
To to stand still?
George B. Thomas (16:41):
I I love that so much. I love that so much
because we all have to havethese triggers or hooks to our
brain, and and yours, the bombthing. For me, it's it's and,
again, I've said it on thepodcast many times, but it's the
1% better each and every day.Like, it is a narrative that
when when gets rough, I whisperinside of my own cranium.
(17:04):
Alright, bro.
1% better each and every day.Like, let's keep just take
another step, dude. Just justtake another step. And by the
way, Liz, none of us will everbe perfect.
Liz Moorhead (17:16):
I know.
George B. Thomas (17:17):
Right? And and the listeners, I want you to
hear this. Like, perfection isnot reality. Progress is 1%
better each and every day.You're not gonna physically
explode.
Just keep taking that step.
Liz Moorhead (17:32):
I love that. I know we've already started
dipping our toes into this pool,but for my next question, I
wanna hear from you. What do yousee as the biggest
misconceptions aboutpersistence? The ones that you
would say are probably the mostcostly to us if we lean into it
or the most insidious anddestructive?
George B. Thomas (17:49):
Yeah. Oh, insidious. Oh, that
Liz Moorhead (17:52):
I know. Isn't that a great burn?
George B. Thomas (17:53):
That's like a super, villain word. That's
city. Like like, here's thething where my brain goes. It
goes in a couple places, ofcourse. You know, that's kind of
how my brain works.
But but let's talk about whenit's time to pivot because I
think that's a big word andsomething that we need to think
about, and we don't naturallythink about pivoting when we
(18:16):
think about persistence. Like,when you think about
persistence, it's like headdown, straight line, make it
through. Like but here's thething. Persistence is is it's
really about resilience. Oh,god.
I'm I'm so excited for thatepisode in in 2
Liz Moorhead (18:32):
2 weeks or
George B. Thomas (18:33):
2 episodes from now. It's about resilience
and smart choices, and it'sabout why small, steady steps
matter more than big, flashyleaps. And so many times in our
life, we're all trying to getthat big, flashy leap, and, like
and it actually stunts theamount that we could go if we
just took those steady stepsthat matter. K? So one of the
(18:56):
biggest misconceptions aboutpersistence is that it's all
about brute force.
Just keep going. Push harder.Grind it out. And, honestly, I
think that, that mindset hasdone more harm than good to a
lot of humans who are like theythink about persistence in that
way. Persistence isn't aboutblindly muscling through every
(19:18):
obstacle that you have in life,nor is it about sacrificing your
well-being on the altar of yourgoals.
And I'm gonna tell you rightnow, there are humans out there
listening to this that you youare sacrificing yourself on the
altar of your goals, and andthat's not persistence. Ladies
and gentlemen, that's burnoutdressed up as ambition, and I
(19:42):
need you to just check yourself.Like, are you are you ambitious,
or you just burnout becauseyou're trying to muscle your way
through? Okay? So anothermisunderstanding is the idea
that persistence means neverquitting while you're a quitter,
which is like, if somebodycalled me a quitter, I'd be
like, no.
But, actually, there's timeswhere I just need to quit.
(20:04):
Right? But but, like, quittingno matter what kind of aligns
with sacrificing yourself on thealtar of your goals. But but
here's the truth. Sometimes realpersistence is about knowing
when to pivot.
And and, Liz, you know this.Listeners, if you've been
listening for a while, you youknow this as well. I love a good
(20:25):
pivot. I genuine I I genuinelybelieve that one of the most
powerful skills that we cancultivate is becoming what a
buddy of mine called me yearsyears years ago. He said, dude,
you're a transition specialist.
It it when when you'repersistent, right, you you you
(20:45):
understand that it's like, yes.It's 1% better each and every
day. It's one little step at atime. But ladies and gentlemen,
it could be a step to the left.It could be a step to the right.
It could be a step back so thatyou can turn in the right
direction. You gotta figure outhow to be a transition
specialist. It's it'srecognizing when to step back,
(21:08):
reassess, or redirect yourenergy towards something that
aligns better with your purposeand your values. You see,
because sometimes we get stuckin this rut of life where we're
doing things for the peoplearound us. I went to school to
be a doctor because my dad was adoctor.
(21:29):
I do this because my boss askedme to do this thing. Does it
align with my purpose or myvalues? Nope. But I keep on
doing it. You see, persistence,again, it's not about stubbornly
sticking to the same path out ofsheer determination.
It's resilience paired withdiscernment. Whoo. I love that
(21:51):
word. The the discernment.
Liz Moorhead (21:52):
We are SAT wording today, professor. Insidious.
Discernment.
George B. Thomas (21:56):
Listen. Ladies and gentlemen. If you don't have
some discernment in your life,that is that is one action step
you could take after. See, it'sit's about being it again, being
persistent. It's about beingadaptable and smart enough to
recognize when continuing topush forward makes sense and,
frankly, when it's just time toshift strategies or focus in on
(22:20):
something else or even focus ina different area of what you're
doing.
One last myth about persistencethat I wanna cover here.
Persistence isn't some grandheroic act that happens
overnight. Poof. Like, that dudeis persistent, like, a cape and
no. People often think it'sabout these massive leaps
(22:41):
forward, but the reality isthat, again, small consistent
steps.
I can't say this enough in thisepisode, the 1%. But 1 percent
is not a lot. It's more than 0.1's most when you wake up in the
morning, do you just levitateand you're at the bathroom? No.
You once like, it's a just anatural order of life. One step
(23:02):
at a time. Consistently. SoWalter Elliott said this,
perseverance is not a long race.It is many short races one after
the other.
You know, that's the fun partabout that when I think about
that is if it's a bunch of shortraces, one after the other, you
know what persistence gives youin that light time to rest till
(23:25):
it's time for the next race? Yousee, true persistence is showing
up for yourself day after dayeven when progress feels
invisible. And that's the funnypart too is, like, have you ever
gone to the gym or you've donesomething for, like, a 100 days,
but you you don't feel thedifference, you don't see the
difference, and then you seesomebody that you haven't seen
(23:47):
for a long time, and they'relike, wow. You look good.
Sometimes that 1% progress, thatindividual steps, that short
couple races that you did to bepersistent, it feels invisible
to you.
But you have to trust yourself.You have to trust the process.
(24:08):
You have to trust the fact thatevery small effort here's
another word for you, ladies andgentlemen, discernment. Every
small effort compounds over timeinto something meaningful. I've
told stories about how I'vedone, like, thousands of HubSpot
tutorials.
Not one of them tutorials wasextra special or amazing, but
(24:30):
the fact that we consistentlydid them for over 8 years and,
like, it compounded compoundinterest because that's
literally building a brand andstarting a business, and then
where we are today with beyondyour default, superhuman
framework, and clients. Foreveryone listening, here's
something that I want you tothink about. And when I say
(24:52):
think about it, it's it'squestions that I want you to ask
yourself around this. How canyou reframe persistence in your
life so it's less aboutrelentless effort and more about
intentional, meaningfulprogress? And are there places
where letting go or pivotingcould actually move you closer
(25:15):
to those goals that you'reseeking?
Now, Liz, I'm super curious.What's your take on this? Like,
how how do you see persistencebeing misunderstood in, like,
the realms and world that youkind of live in?
Liz Moorhead (25:27):
You covered a couple of the big ones for me
that I wanna double click on.First, this idea of persistence,
meaning you have to stick withsomething no matter what, and
you are a failure if you makethe choice to drop something.
And I'm gonna be perfectlyhonest. That one really kind of
left out of the screen, if youwill, as soon as it those words
came out of your face becausenot only did I agree with it,
(25:50):
it's something that I'veactually been not necessarily
wrestling with, but over thepast few weeks, I've really been
auditing because I'm starting toget a lot more fussy about where
my energy is going, and I'mstarting to feel a lot more
friction of why is my energyhere when I know it should be
here. And sometimes the mostdedicated way you can express
(26:12):
persistence in your life is toknow what things not to persist
with so you may persist with theright things, the right people.
And I, you know, I've spent thepast year auditing my life doing
it, but the past couple ofweeks, you know, I'm starting to
notice a greater disparitybetween, I love doing this. Why
am I putting my attention here?And it's it's because there's
(26:35):
that push and pull. And if youdon't get really clear about
what it is you really should bepersistent about, you will be
half assing everything insteadof whole assing the things you
should be whole assing. You knowwhat I mean?
So that is something that leftoff the screen to me. The other
thing I would say too is that topersist at something and then to
(26:59):
fail at that something is not afailure. I think that's one of
the greatest misconceptionsabout persistence is that to
persist at something and to failat something is to not fail. And
it reminds me of a client I hada long time ago at my last
agency, and, he had, you know,founded multiple businesses. He
(27:22):
was a Silicon Valley guy, justabsolutely brilliant.
I loved listening to him talk.And one of the things he said to
me once is that he got ahead inlife because of the way he
perceived his relationship withfailure and that he never saw
failures as failures. He sawthem as instructions on what to
(27:43):
do next. And that is where Ithink about you know, when I was
going through some of my darkestmoments over the past year, and
I will even say over the pastmonth as I'm like, I'm still
trying to refine, focus, show upwhere I need to show up, do the
thing. Okay.
I made a mistake. Get back up.We keep going. I keep thinking
(28:03):
about that idea of I can lookback over the past year and say,
man, look at all these failures,but they brought me closer to
the focus of where I'm supposedto be. You have to be honest
with yourself about why thingsmight get messed up.
You have to be honest withyourself by about why some
things maybe didn't go the wayyou planned them to, but it's
(28:23):
still an overarching act ofpersistence and a commitment to
yourself.
George B. Thomas (28:28):
So So good. Question So good.
Liz Moorhead (28:30):
So question for you. Persistence, though, is
going to look different fordifferent people. Right? Like,
my flavor of persistence is notyour flavor of persistence. So
it becomes how do we define itfor ourselves?
How do we find that sweet spotfor us as individuals?
George B. Thomas (28:47):
Yeah. Which which, by the way, one of the
things that I love as far as,like, host, cohost, host I don't
know who's the host, who's thecohost here, but one of the
things I love about what youbring to the table is the
ability to bring powerfulquestions. I want the listeners
to know that this is a powerfulquestion because of the answer
(29:11):
it enables and the thing thatyou should be putting in your
brain because it does not lookthe same for everybody. So it's
like I can't download atemplate. I can't steal your
blueprint.
Like, this is something you haveto focus on yourself. Listen,
persistence isn't a one sizefits all kind of thing. It's it
(29:32):
it needs to be. It should bedeeply personal. It it's gonna
be shaped by your goals.
It's gonna be shaped by yourvalues. But more importantly,
pay attention to this because Ihave had to, the season of life
you're in. Like, my persistencefor GBT 10 years ago, 20 years
ago looks completely differentthan my persistence right now.
(29:57):
But, again, I've changed. Mygoals have changed.
My values over time have changedor been refined. Right? And so
so the way persistence shows upin your life might look very
different from how it shows upin someone else's life, and it
could be your kids, your wife,your coworkers, like but know
that that's not a flaw. That'sdesign. That's exactly how it
(30:20):
should be.
Liz Moorhead (30:21):
That's both a feature and a bug. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (30:23):
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So to get to the the
deeper part of your yourquestion, like, to start, like,
persistence is all aboutaligning with your why. Right?
And and and if you don't knowyour why, and I would even say
your because. Like, every time Italk about why now, I think
about my buddy, Mick Hunt, whodoes the Mick Unplugged podcast,
(30:44):
and he talks to humans abouttheir because. Yeah. It's it's
amazing. So, like, the the why.
But do you know your why? Like,when you're clear on your
purpose, what truly matters toyou as a human, it becomes
easier to decide where youshould channel your energy and
when to keep going on channelingthat energy in the direction of
(31:07):
your purpose or your why. Forsome, persistence might mean
showing up every day to write aparagraph of a long dream book
that they wanna write. Forothers, it might mean committing
to a challenging conversation.Those are fun.
Or sticking to a new habit thatyou're trying to build. It's not
(31:28):
about comparing your persistenceto anyone else. It's about
defining what makes sense foryou individually as a human for
those goals, for your values,for the season that you're in.
Listeners, I need I need to getyour notepads out for a second,
and I'm dead serious. Get yournotepads out.
Get a pen. Get a pen. Sorry.Okay. Because I want you to
(31:53):
write this down because thisframework that I wanna talk
about, it's a simple framework.
It's not like the wholesuperhuman framework. It's like
a micro framework inside theframework, if you will. It can
help Liz. It can help you. Yeah.
And, yes, yes, here's the thing.Even me approach persistence
with purpose and clarity, makingsure that your my efforts are
(32:17):
intentional and sustainable. Andso I want you to write down
persist. K? Persist.
And it obviously meanssomething. Persist. The p is for
purpose. I want you to alwaysremember to start with your why
Because the purpose is thefoundation of meaningful
(32:38):
persistence, which is gonna giveyou a clear direction and the
motivation to keep movingforward. And I want you for this
p for purpose to ask yourself,what's the bigger picture I'm
working towards?
How does this goal align with myvalues? And you'll write these
down. Now the e is for evaluate.What I want you to do is
(33:00):
regularly check-in withyourself. You see, because
persistence isn't about blindlypushing forward.
It's about learning, adjusting.I called it pivoting earlier in
this episode. And and makingsmarter choices as you go. And
for this e, for evaluate, I wantyou to ask yourself, what's
(33:20):
working well right now, andwhat's not serving me anymore?
Now for the r, this is therhythm.
We all have to find our rhythm.Like, honor the pace of your
life. This just just translatesright into the season and what
you're doing. Like, listen. Somedays call for big leaps and
(33:40):
others are about small steadysteps.
You have to recognize that bothare valuable and part of the
journey that you're on, andyou're trying to be consistent
and persistent. For this one,for the rhythm, I want you to
ask yourself, am I honoring mynatural pace, or am I forcing
progress at an unsustainablespeed? K? The s is for small
(34:09):
wins. I want you listeners tocelebrate every step forward no
matter how small.
Taking time to acknowledge thesewins builds momentum and reminds
you that progress is happening.Remember I talked about that
invisible progress? It's yourjob to remind yourself progress
is happening even if it feelsslow, even if it feels slow. Ask
(34:31):
yourself during this one forsmall wins, what's one small
victory I can celebrate todaythat brings me closer to my goal
or goals? Now the I is forintuition.
If I could just get more humansto trust their instincts, to
listen to their gut, to hear thesmall voice inside their brain.
(34:55):
Persistence is about knowingwhen to push harder and when
it's time to pivot towards abetter path. So for intuition, I
want you to ask yourself, am Icontinuing because it feels
right, or am I pushing throughout of a habit or out of fear?
Now the s is for support, andlife is funner when we actually
have people around us. Sosurround yourself with people
(35:19):
who understand and encourageyour journey.
Leaning on others foraccountability or motivation can
make all the difference in theworld of you being able to stay
persistent to get to those goalsthat you're trying to achieve.
And so for support, I want youto ask yourself, who in my life
can I lean on for encouragementor support right now? If you
(35:42):
don't have an immediate namethat comes to mind, please, that
is a most important next actionstep to figure out that gap to
fill with the right human as youmove forward on this journey. T
is for tenacity. Oh, I love thatword so much.
Stay committed to your goalwhile remaining flexible in your
(36:05):
approach. I'm a say that for thepeople in the cheap seats in the
back. Stay committed. Staycommitted to your goal while
remaining flexible in yourapproach. Listen.
True persistence is aboutbalancing your dedication with
adaptability and how you achieveyour vision that you're headed
(36:26):
to. In this one, I want you toask yourself, how can I stay
committed to my goal whileremaining open to new methods or
new paths? I think if you justthink about persist in these
letters, in these questions thatyou ask yourself, if you use
this simple framework, you canstart to shape persistence in a
way that's not just effective,but also sustainable. And like
(36:50):
we talked about earlier, it'sdeeply personal. And this brings
up another key point.
Persistence doesn't mean pushingfull throttle every single day.
It's about recognizing therhythm that I mentioned earlier
of your life. Listen. It's okayto not take a step because you
(37:10):
know that you're gonna takeanother step another day. It's
okay to sprint because maybe youknow you're almost at the finish
line of the marathon that you'vebeen running.
Both are valid as long as you'removing toward what truly
matters. So so to everyonelistening, I I hope that I can
(37:32):
encourage you to reflect on 2major questions that go align or
align with this persist simpleframework that we've been
talking about. 1, what's thebigger picture that I'm working
towards? That should be at thetop of your notes. What is the
bigger picture that I'm workingtowards?
And right below that, what's onesmall manageable step I can take
(37:57):
today to keep moving in thatdirection? And then under that's
persist. I hope that helps.Listen, by the way, I'd love to
hear your take. You can emailus.
You can hit us up on social.What does persistence look like
for you? But, also, Liz, I'mcurious. What are your thoughts
(38:18):
around this?
Liz Moorhead (38:19):
So I'm actually gonna do a little demonstration,
George, because, you know, it'sfunny. You and I spend so much
time together, but you and Ihave not basically been in a
room together for a little over,what, 2 years. Yeah. So you've
only seen me from, like, thechest up for about 2 years?
George B. Thomas (38:34):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (38:34):
I'm about £80 lighter now.
George B. Thomas (38:36):
Yay. There we go. There we go. Now, listeners,
you'd you'd have to watch thison the the YouTubes or the
whatever, but yes. See, that'swhat I'm talking about.
Liz Moorhead (38:47):
The reason why I bring that up is because
persistence is going to be adifferent flavor, not just
individual to individual, butalso goal to goal. I didn't
start losing weight or actuallygetting healthy until my flavor
of persistence was I am notgoing to chase weight loss.
Weight loss is not the goal. I'mnot gonna step on a scale. I'm
(39:09):
not gonna do anything like thatwhatsoever.
My flavor of persistence was,okay. I have a goal. Now I'm not
gonna think about it. I'm justgonna show up and commit myself
to new systems and habits.Habits.
So persistence became, I don'tcare what you do. You just have
to be inside the walls of thatgym for 30 minutes. You could
(39:31):
sit there and stare at afreaking wall for 30 minutes,
but you have to be inside thegym for 30 minutes. And then it
evolves. The goals changed.
The goals shifted. I spent a lotof time. I know I know people
always talk about metaphoricallyspeaking. You gotta be careful
about staring at your feet.Well, sometimes when you have
big things that you need to do,the only thing you should be
doing is looking at the stepsthat are right in front of you
(39:53):
and not obsessively looking atwhat's on top of the mountain.
George B. Thomas (39:57):
Preach.
Liz Moorhead (39:57):
Because because that's when we get into
situations where we become soobsessed with a goal that we do
not realize the most importantthing we can do is change our
habits and our systems andbecome the person we want to be,
the person who we already are. Iwould say the other thing too
about persistence in terms ofhow we define it for ourselves
(40:17):
is it reminds me a lot of theconversation we had about
purpose. We expect it to be thisbig lightning bolt from the sky.
Purpose is this. It's like thisgreat crystal ball that breaks
open like in, order of thephoenix and Harry Potter, and it
gives the great prophecy.
Right? Like that. But that's butthere's so many
George B. Thomas (40:36):
things that specific.
Liz Moorhead (40:37):
Kind of stuff. Do you know what persistence really
is sometimes? Just making a todo list every single morning and
then just doing the to do list.Persistence is just waking up
and and and and doing the thing
George B. Thomas (40:49):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (40:50):
And and not always questioning everything
constantly all the time.Persistence is wildly unsexy and
unglamorous.
George B. Thomas (41:00):
I like the to do list. My brain wants to say
right below that, right, the todon't list so that you can red
flag yourself of, like, oops.I'm doing one of the to don'ts.
Let me get back to the to dos.Anyway.
Liz Moorhead (41:15):
I love that. So when we think about persistence,
there is always there areextremes to everything. Right?
Persistence is great, and thereare thresholds of when it can
become unhealthy orcounterproductive. So how do you
know when it happens?
How do you know when you getthere?
George B. Thomas (41:33):
Yeah. I'm gonna keep this one simple and
to the point, to be honest withyou. Persistence becomes
unhealthy or counterproductivewhen it stops serving your
purpose and starts draining yourwell-being. I could end there.
I'm not going to, but it's like,that's the lens that I want you
to look at.
(41:54):
When it stops serving yourpurpose and starts draining your
well-being. If you're pushingforward out of habit, out of
fear, or, God forbid, out ofpride Rather than intentional
effort towards a meaningfulgoal, it's it's a sign to step
back and reassess. Why, what,how, when, pivot, yes, maybe, I
(42:19):
don't know. Another big flag iswhen your efforts are causing
harm. Again, whether it'sburnout, whether it's neglecting
important relationships in yourlife, or even if it goes to the
depths of compromising yourvalues.
Now you know persistence is nolonger doing what it's designed
(42:40):
to do for you. The key is tostay connected again to your
why. The key is to be honestwith yourself. The key is to be
honest with yourself aboutwhat's working and what's not.
And I've already said, this inthis episode, but it deserves to
be repeated, Liz.
(43:02):
Sometimes the bravest form ofpersistence is knowing when to
pivot or pause, pivot or pause.Because if you can be brave and
you can understand those times,it's how you're gonna actually
protect what truly matters.Melissa, I'm I'm super curious
(43:23):
on your thoughts of kind ofrecognizing when persistence
might be doing more, let's say,harm than good.
Liz Moorhead (43:32):
You know those moments where you look in the
mirror and you know, like, Igave my all today or I didn't
give my all or I didn't do thisor I did like, you kinda Yeah.
It's that it's that come toJesus moment whenever you lock
eyes with yourself in themirror. You kinda know where
you're at. Honestly
George B. Thomas (43:46):
Yep.
Liz Moorhead (43:47):
Just take a look at yourself in the mirror. You
know, listening to this, Iguarantee you, there are people
right now wondering out loud, isthis the wrong kind of
persistence? And you're asking aquestion you already know the
answer to. You already know.
George B. Thomas (44:00):
But you don't wanna answer.
Liz Moorhead (44:02):
But but you don't wanna answer it because that's
the thing. How do you know whenpersistence becomes unhealthy or
counterproductive? My guess iswe already know. The real
question you need to be askingyourself is why are you denying
the truth? What is the cost youfeel like is not that you're not
willing to pay?
And then you have to counteractthat and understand the cost
(44:23):
that you are not willing to payis much less expensive than the
one you are already paying byYeah. Continuing down whatever
path it is that you have. Sowhen I think about when
persistence becomes healthunhealthy and counterproductive,
it's it's when we start lying toourselves Yep. Or we refuse to
have the tough conversations ormake the important choices that
(44:43):
we need to make.
George B. Thomas (44:44):
Yeah. Which which, by the way I had
Liz Moorhead (44:46):
to do that this week. I had to take a step back
from a couple of things. And Isaid, hey. You know, I gotta I
need I know where my focus needsto be. I know my focus isn't
there the way I need it to be,so I gotta take a step back.
Yeah. Too many yeses. Oh. Gottathrow out a few noes.
George B. Thomas (45:02):
Got gotta do it. We're we're so good at lying
to ourselves.
Liz Moorhead (45:07):
We really are.
George B. Thomas (45:08):
We're we're we're pro and I don't mean you
and I, Liz. I mean, listeners,I'm I'm bringing you I'm
bringing you into this as well.Like, just as as fundamentally
as humans, we are we are pros atlying to ourself, and we we have
honesty is such a key piece tothis conversation we're having,
which I'm trying to think ifwe've actually done an episode
(45:30):
on honesty. We've done 2. Oh,well, there you go.
Go listen to those.
Liz Moorhead (45:35):
We did a whole episode on self deception. We've
been doing this for over a year.It's crazy, isn't
George B. Thomas (45:39):
it? Crazy. The the library of in motion.
Potential growth that you haveat your fingertips, listeners.
Anyway So us too.
Liz Moorhead (45:48):
Let's talk about the role of rest and recovery
and persistence. What does thatlook like?
George B. Thomas (45:52):
Yeah. I mean, it's it's important. I've said
important maybe too many timesin this podcast episode, but it
it can't be overstated. Maybemaybe it's even more than
important. Maybe I'll use adifferent word.
It's like, Liz, it's essential.Here's the funny thing. Rest
isn't the opposite ofpersistence. I don't know why we
(46:15):
think that is sometimes, butrest is the fuel that makes it
sustainable. Without it, we riskburnout.
We lose perspective. We drainthe very energy that we need to
keep going to to be persistentin the pursuit of our purpose
that we're passionate about.Like, I don't want anybody to
(46:37):
look at recovery as it's likestepping away from the goal.
It's it's not. It's it's aboutstepping toward it with renewed
clarity, with renewed focus,with renewed strength because
we've actually taken time torest and recover.
I I I want you to honestly thinkabout it like running a
marathon. Liz, you just did thisa couple weeks ago, I believe.
(47:01):
Ran you did a marathon. Right?
Liz Moorhead (47:03):
I ran a I did a 10 k, and I literally I am I had
friends who asked me, oh, haveyou done a race before of any
kind? So a 10 k is 6 and a halfmiles.
George B. Thomas (47:13):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (47:14):
And I had I've never done a race of any kind
before in my life Yeah. Ever.Yeah. And, last year, I just
went, you know, I'm gonna put mymoney where my mouth is. And so
I bought registration, and Ijust knew no matter what, I was
gonna go across the 4 and a halfmile Bay Bridge in Maryland.
George B. Thomas (47:33):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (47:34):
And I was gonna do it, and I did it. And what was
really funny is I expected thebridge to be the hardest part
because it's, like, straight upfor about 3 miles. Like, it's
and, yeah, my my calves werekilling me and so were my quads,
but, actually, what got me thehardest part was the last, like,
3 quarters of a mile.
George B. Thomas (47:55):
There's a lesson in that lesson.
Liz Moorhead (47:57):
That was the part where I was just like, oh my
god. I I'm saying you heard,like, I've gone over 5 miles,
and it's this last one. And I'mlike, I gotta do it. What am I
gonna do? Stop?
I'm just gonna sit down on theasphalt and decline to finish.
George B. Thomas (48:13):
Yeah.
Liz Moorhead (48:14):
And it what was crazy to me is that when I got
my finishing time, I had set agoal for myself of how long this
race was gonna take me. And Imade it a point not to really
look to see what I had donebecause the goal was just to
persist to get over that bridge,to get that 6 and a half miles
done, and my pace was 35 minutesfaster.
George B. Thomas (48:35):
There we go. See see yeah. Here's here's the
thing. And, 1, just anunderstanding of the last bit of
your race is gonna be the mostdifficult. So being rested and
rejuvenated or having theability to push through that is
super important.
(48:56):
But also the fact that you werelike, I know that the end goal
is this. Let me just focus onthat, and I can actually beat
it. And so, listeners, this iswhy I'm talking about think of
it like running a marathon, likeLiz just explained. If Liz was
to try to sprint the entire way,if you in life are trying to
sprint I love Liz's face, by theway. If you're listening to this
(49:17):
if you're listening to this, itwas it was priceless.
But but if you try to sprint theentire way, you'll run out of
steam long before the finishline. Rest, pace, rhythm, allow
you to do things likerecalibrate, rehydrate, like,
along the way. And I'm talking alittle bit metaphorically, but
(49:37):
also, like, reality. Inpersistence, like, these moments
of recovery are where the magichappens. They're where they're
where and when we reflect on howfar we've come.
We can reassess our strategies,and and we can reconnect with
our purpose of the whole reasonwhy we're being persistent in
(49:58):
the 1st place. And I think wehave to talk about how rest
actually builds. Here it comes,ladies and gentlemen.
Resilience. Taking theseintentional breaks by the way,
disclaimer.
I am fundamentally preaching tomyself during this next part,
(50:20):
but taking intentional breaks,allows your mind and body to
recover. It makes you strongerfor the next push. It's it's in
these moments that inspirationoften strikes. Problems find
solutions, and motivation isreignited. So you have to ask
(50:40):
yourself, what does that looklike in practice?
It it might mean taking 10minutes during a stressful day
to clear your head. It might bededicating an evening to
something that brings you greatjoy. It might mean stepping away
completely for a weekend torest. Oh, god. Anyway, I said
(51:01):
I'm preaching to myself on this.
Liz Moorhead (51:03):
My problem is every time you say you're gonna
go take a rest, you start a newcompany. So it gets a little bit
Yeah. It gets a little if Idon't hear from you for too
long, my first one is
George B. Thomas (51:11):
the thing.
Liz Moorhead (51:11):
Look at that. He's finally getting some rest. And
then I'm like, wait a minute.Yeah. How about you just Slack
recently?
George B. Thomas (51:16):
Yeah. Listen. Listen. I've I've done all of
those at some point in time inmy life. I don't exactly
remember when some of them were,but that's why I'm preaching to
myself.
We have to take time to do thosethings. And and those are pieces
that I'm trying to get betterat, but the key is to integrate
figure out how to integrate restinto the rhythm and not and not
(51:44):
as a reward for exhaustion, butas an essential part of your
persistence journey. Listeners,I'm curious because I'm also, as
I admitted, learning along theway. How do you make space for
intentional rest so that you cancome back stronger and more
focused? Again, I'd love to geta massive amount of emails or a
(52:06):
massive amount of peoplereaching out on social, but I'm
even more curious
Liz Moorhead (52:10):
email you, George?
George B. Thomas: George@georgebthomas.com. But (52:11):
undefined
I'm actually very curious to ifmany humans are in the same boat
that I am based on theirlisteners to this podcast, and
they're on like journeys. But,hey, I'd like to hear from you.
And, Liz, I'd I'd love to hearyour thoughts on this as well.
Liz Moorhead (52:33):
You can't keep the lights on for anybody else if
you can't keep your own lightson. That's my thought. That's my
whole thought.
George B. Thomas (52:39):
That's a whole thought. So
Liz Moorhead (52:41):
Like I said, like, that that's really it.
George B. Thomas (52:43):
Yeah. So speaking of thoughts, Liz, we've
we've come a long journey. We'reat roughly 50 some minutes, I
think, probably, once this badboy is edited down. Out of all
the things that we've talkedabout, what's Liz's one thing
from this episode?
Liz Moorhead (52:59):
Persistence is the most important promise you can
keep to yourself because youcan't keep any promises to other
people until you learn how topersist for yourself. I spent
decades of my life persistingfor other people and then
wondering why I felt empty. Andit's been a journey over this
past year to really feel worthyof persisting for because that
(53:22):
was I didn't like myself. Didn'tlike myself, didn't love myself,
had very little self worth. Ifelt like Liz is a service and
feel like a human being.
And that started to cometogether. And over the past
week, I've really been focusingon persistence is the most
important promise you can keepto yourself. Because once you
(53:45):
start keeping those promises toyourself, it's not that life
gets easier, but life gets morefulfilling. Because when you
persist on behalf of yourself asopposed to the agenda that other
people set for you, that's whenyour passion, your purpose
starts coming alive. George,what about you?
Take us home. What's your onething that you want people to
(54:05):
remember from this episode?
George B. Thomas (54:07):
Yeah. My, my one thing for this episode, Liz,
is this. Persistence isn't aboutrelentless effort. It's about
intentional, meaningfulprogress. Intentional,
meaningful progress that alignswith your individual, you, the
(54:28):
human's, purpose.
True persistence is sustainableonly when it's fueled by
clarity, balanced by rest, andadaptable to change. It's not
about how hard you or we push,but it's about knowing when to
(54:48):
move forward or when to pivot orwhen to pause or when to
recharge. If you stay connectedto your why, celebrate your
small wins, and honor yourindividual human rhythm,
(55:09):
persistence becomes a powerfultool for growth, not just a
grind, a hustle to endure.That's what keeps you moving
forward no matter how tough theroad gets on this very important
journey to a life beyond yourdefault.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com