September 2, 2025 • 39 mins
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The blank page between Malachi and Matthew represents 400 years of crucial history that set the stage for Jesus' arrival in what the Bible calls "the fullness of time." Reverend Sandra Glenn explains how this period, while called the "silent years" because of no prophetic messages, was actually filled with God's behind-the-scenes work preparing the world for Christ.
• Transition of power from Persia to Greece to Rome created the perfect conditions for Jesus' ministry
• Alexander the Great's influence spread Greek language, leading to the Septuagint translation making Scripture accessible
• Religious groups like Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, and Essenes developed during this period
• Synagogues replaced the temple as centers for worship and teaching
• God methodically prepared the world with roads, common language, and dispersion of Jewish people
• Prophetic promises from Jeremiah, Micah, and Isaiah sustained hope during foreign occupation
• Each Gospel writer later presented Jesus from a perspective shaped by these 400 years of history
Please like, follow, subscribe, and share this podcast with someone who could benefit from this knowledge. Join us for our next episode as we start Season 5 with a review of the Gospels and dive into the book of Matthew.
REFERENCED RESOURCES:
Book: The Four Centuries Between the Testaments, George E. Balla
Past Episodes:
Malachi: Final Book of the Old Testament
Unveiling the Intertestamental Period - Encore
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Note: All scripture references are from the NIV translation unless otherwise indicated.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jacqui (00:12):
Hi listeners, I'm just sitting here finishing up my
reading of the book of Malachi.
Read all about how the Jews areback in their homeland, the
temples built, they're under theauthority of the Persian Empire
and Malachi is written inHebrew.
(00:34):
That was the original language.
I turn the page.
I get a blank page and thenMatthew, which is originally
written in Greek, it's Rome, isthe superpower in charge and
(00:55):
it's a whole different situation, a whole different setting.
What happened?
What happened on this blankpage?
We need some information.
I'm Jacqui Adewole and this isthe Bible Basics Podcast, where
weekly we break down the basicsof the Bible into understandable
, bite-sized chunks.
(01:16):
And, thank God, today we havewith us someone who's going to
give us some answers.
We have Reverend Sandra Glenn.
She's a lifelong student and ateacher of God's Word.
Her passion for the kingdomshines through in everything she
does and I can certainly attestto that.
(01:38):
We've known each other for avery long time.
She's a passionate teacher.
She spent decades helpingpeople understand scripture and
their unique calling in buildingGod's kingdom.
She currently serves at Princeof Peace Community Church and
Healing Center, where she leadsboth the education and the
(02:01):
healing ministries and thehealing ministries.
Her love for teaching hastouched lives, in classrooms, in
workshops, in seminars and evenin everyday encounters, whether
it's at the grocery store or inthe streets of Baltimore
ministering to the homeless, oreven, of course, in her church
(02:21):
setting, and I'm so glad she'shere to help us unpack this
period between Malachi andMatthew called the
intertestamental period.
Welcome, Reverend Glenn.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (02:36):
Thank you, Jacqui, for such a wonderful
introduction.
It is my pleasure and privilegeto be here today.
Jacqui (02:42):
Great, Wonderful.
Well, let's get right into it.
Well, before we go into details, just kind of give us an
understanding about why eventalk about the intertestamental
period.
Why does it even matter Ifyou're somebody new to reading
the Bible?
Why shouldn't they click andturn off this video?
Why do they want to hear aboutthis intertestamental period?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (03:07):
Well, Jacqui , if we just listened to your
introduction, you told the wholestory.
You know that you jumped fromthis place to that place, and
then there is no leading intohow they got there.
And so that blank pagerepresents 400 years of many,
(03:27):
many things happening, many,many changes being made.
And so, again, when you getover there to Matthew, you know
there is a big leap from Malachito Matthew.
Yes, because a lot happened.
Jacqui (03:42):
Okay, well, let's hear about it.
What happened between what wenton 400 years?
You said 400 years.
Yes.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (03:53):
Yes, 400 years.
And so you talked about Malachiand I'm not going to go right
now in a lot of detail aboutMalachi, but you gave the lesson
on Malachi and you describedvery well all of the things that
God spoke to them about.
And so in Malachi, god hadgiven them, I think, about five
different disputes.
Now the interesting thing aboutthis is, you know, they didn't
(04:17):
feel loved and God was tellingthem well, you know, you were
sacrificing children, you reallydidn't honor me, you didn't
worship me like you should havethe tithes and the offerings,
you didn't do those kinds ofthings, the sacrifices, because
you know, back in the temple youhad to give an unblemished lamb
and here they were given thesick and whatever, I guess
(04:39):
probably their worst.
And so God wasn't happy withthat.
And the thing about it is,rather than them just accepting
what God was telling them, andGod always throughout continued
to say I love you, I have lovedyou, but they just didn't see it
.
They didn't catch that because,keep in mind, they had been in
(05:01):
a captivity, they've gonethrough a lot, and so they just
didn't see it.
And so I think, at thisjuncture, when you get to the
end of Malachi, if I were to usemy own language for God, I
would say I'm done talking.
That God is saying I'm donetalking, and so he closes that
(05:24):
book and then he begins to dowhat he's going to do.
Jacqui (05:28):
So, yes, so was he really?
I've heard people refer to itas the silent years.
Was he really silent?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (05:37):
He was silent in terms of prophetic
messages.
There was nothing given to themthrough the prophets Ezekiel,
isaiah, any of them.
He just shut them all down.
Malachi was the last one, andso it is in fact called the
silent years.
But was he silent?
Absolutely not.
He was busy.
(05:58):
There was a lot being done inorder to get to this point of
Matthew, and we call that thefullness of time.
So there were a lot of thingsthat had to be done before the
fullness of time came, and thefullness of time was when Jesus
came.
Jacqui (06:15):
Oh so that's where we're going.
Yes, yes, One of the things youheard me mention was that
Persia being the superpower inthe Old Testament and now we
have Rome.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat transition from Persia to
Rome?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (06:35):
Well, you know, I like to call this time
punting and when I say that,okay, so they were in Babylon.
They were in Babylon for 70years because God had told them
what he was going to do.
They still didn't listen, sothey were captured in Babylon.
So after 70 years, persia came.
So again I'm going to say theywere punted to Persia and they
(06:58):
were conquered by Persia.
Okay, then I think it was likeanother 200 years or so when
Persia was ruling.
And then from Persia they wentto Greece.
They were appointed to Greece,and so Greece, Alexander the
Great we'll get into that alittle bit later and then from
Greece they went to Rome.
And so every single one ofthose periods there was a lot of
(07:22):
things that went on that reallychanged a lot of their
perspective, because if you canimagine being in a place 100 and
200 years, you know there's nodoubt that you're going to
embrace some of their teachingsand some of their practices and
so forth.
And so when we get there, godhad done a lot to get them to
(07:43):
where he wanted them to be,where he needed them to be,
before he sent his son.
Jacqui (07:49):
Okay, okay, that's good to know and, as I recall, that
was even prophesied about.
Nebuchadnezzar had a dream andDaniel yes, indeed Absolutely
yes, that progression fromPersia to Greece.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:08):
He told them that, yes, he did.
Jacqui (08:10):
Wow.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:11):
Wow.
And throughout all of this,back back into the Old Testament
, there were prophetic wordsgiven throughout in terms of
what the fullness of time wasgoing to be.
I don't think they quiteunderstood it, but he was
telling them that he was goingto be there, he was going to
redeem them, he was going tobring them back and so forth.
Jacqui (08:30):
Okay, I jump ahead, go ahead.
Okay, well, go ahead and jumpahead.
Then tell us more about whatwas going on, what occurred
during these 400 years.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:38):
Well, when you think about Greek Persia,
Persia did allow them to worshipand allow them to do their own
things.
The most significant thing, orone of the most significant
things about Persia is they didallow them to practice their own
religion, and that wassignificant, and they didn't put
any bars or constraints on themabout that.
(09:00):
They were allowed to returnback to their homeland so they
could go back to Jerusalem.
But think about this Many ofthem didn't know anything about
Jerusalem Because they had beenin Babylon and they're Persia,
and so they really didn't know alot about Jerusalem, and so a
(09:22):
lot of them stayed.
But a remnant went back and, aswe will see and as we can
imagine, every time they wereappointed somewhere else, some
of them stayed.
And so then you go to Greek.
So now they're appointed toGreece.
Alexander the Great, andAlexander the Great, I think,
ruled for about 200 years Now.
(09:46):
Alexander the Great did a lot.
Now you just mentioned in youropening statement that when you
get to the New Testament,they're in Greek.
Okay, now this is during thattime that Alexander the Great
comes forth.
Alexander the Great is the onewho brings forth the Greek
language and he's the one whotried to get everybody to learn
one language.
And again, under Alexander theGreat, under his successor
(10:10):
Ptolemy, he did the Septuagint.
We're going to get to thatlater too, but the Septuagint
was that they would translatethe Hebrew Bible into Greek.
Keep in mind that it has beenyears since they had been
speaking the Hebrew language,and so the people here really
didn't know Hebrew, and thatmeans they couldn't read their
(10:33):
scripts, they couldn't readtheir scrolls, so Alexander the
Great came Now.
Alexander the Great was a greatmilitary person, great military
person.
One of the things that I mostremember about Alexander the
Great is that he was the one whocoined our use of a word that
(10:57):
we still even use today, andthat word is brother, because he
wanted to ensure that hismilitary people knew how he felt
about them, and so he began tocall them brother.
Wow, yes, he began to call thembrother, and even now, in
church and so forth, we refer toour people as brothers.
(11:20):
So I always remember that abouthim, and you know that today we
say bro this and bro that, butit is really a term of
endearment.
So he did a whole lot.
I want to say this, though ifyou were doing reading about
this, one of the things you willprobably see is Hellenistic.
You won't see Greek, becausethis is the word they use when
(11:44):
they talk about the Greekinfluence.
Hellenistic, that's the Greekinfluence.
Septuagint, because Ptolemyengaged 70 people, 70 scholars.
To translate from the Hebrew tothe Greek, septuagint means 70.
(12:10):
So that's how that name cameabout.
Let's see.
So that was about it for them.
But again I want to emphasizethat it is under this regime
that the Greek language became.
They were still under theregime and Rome.
(12:40):
They had already destroyed thefirst temple, which is the
temple that Solomon had builtZerubbabel under Persia, and all
went back and rebuilt thetemple Right, and then Rome
again and all of this was calledafter Persia was the Second
Temple period, and then Romedestroyed the Second Temple and
(13:06):
so after the Second Temple theydid not build a Third Temple,
but all of that period is knownas the Second Temple period.
The other significant thingabout Rome is they were heavily
militarized and they are knownthey engage in peace and that it
(13:27):
was peaceful.
So that was also a big thing.
(13:51):
As you move toward the fullnessof time Now, this is another
thing that you will not find inthe Bible, but I like it because
we all know about this.
And that is, this is whereCleopatra came in.
Okay, Cleopatra came in underthe Roman rule.
Cleopatra was the queen ofEgypt and she ruled.
(14:13):
Mark Anthony had some power inRome and you know the story.
They got together, they weremarried to other people but they
just had to be with each other,and it's a sordid story.
And then, you know, cleopatragot the word that Mark Anthony
was dead and so she committedsuicide, which was a lie, and
(14:34):
then, once he found out that shewas dead, he committed suicide.
So that's the sord of end tothat story.
But that's where they came in.
And a lot of us know aboutCleopatra, but we have no idea
where she falls into history.
But that's where it is underRoman rule.
But she was Egyptian.
Jacqui (14:52):
That's interesting.
I heard one other thing aboutthe Romans, because it goes to
something we talk about often inchurches, this step-by-step
process for salvation.
We refer to it as Romans Roadbecause it comes out of the Book
of Romans.
But the other thing I heardthat Rome was the empire that
(15:14):
was responsible for building alot of roads.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (15:19):
Absolutely, and I'm glad you mentioned that,
because I thought about thesebooklets about the Roman road,
and I think that's exactly whereit comes from that Rome was
known for building the roads andso forth.
Again, you know, god wasn'tsilent.
God wasn't silent, god knew,and so this was a way for the
people to go from place to place, especially when it comes to
(15:41):
spreading the word, you know.
So they had a lot of influencein terms of what they were
supposed to be doing and whatGod had in mind.
Now, we didn't see this andthey didn't see it and they
didn't understand it, but Godwas at work, doing what only God
can do.
Jacqui (15:57):
Wow, how were the Jews treated during this 400-year
period?
You mentioned that they startedout able to practice their
religion under Persia.
Did that continue?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (16:11):
on when you get to the Maccabean Revolt.
That was the time when theybegan to punish them for
practicing their religion, andso the Maccabean Revolt is an
(16:33):
answer to that, and I thinkabout Rosa Parks when she says
I'm sick and tired of being sickand tired, and so they revolted
.
That was the Maccabeean revolt,when that party decided they
did not want them to practicetheir religion.
Jacqui (16:45):
Wow.
Another thing I noticed lookingat Malachi and then looking at
Matthew.
In Matthew, jesus is dealingwith a group of people called
Pharisees, and it's a majorissue, but they weren't in
Malachi, so who?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (17:06):
Were these Pharisees and where did they
come from?
You know, when I first began tostudy the intertestamental
period and I read about theorigin of the Pharisees Now I'm
already in the New Testament butI began to read the origin and
I thought, boy, the Phariseeshave gotten a bad rap.
Okay, because all they wanted todo in these foreign lands was
(17:30):
to practice their religion.
And again I said how they hadthe Maccabean revolt.
But the Pharisees emerged as astrict group of people that
wanted to practice the rules andtraditions of the law.
So that's how they came to theNew Testament that they have
(17:56):
become so entrenched into doingthis, this, this, this and this
the way that they thought itshould be done that it came into
I'm jumping over there into theNew Testament that they began
to contradict a lot of thethings Jesus did when Jesus came
, and so that contributed to thetension, and that's one of the
things we're going to talk about, but that contributed to the
(18:17):
tension, and that's one of thethings we're going to talk about
.
But that contributed to thetension.
But that's how the Phariseesevolved.
And then, of course, you hadthe Sadducees.
That's another group, and theytoo came, but the Sadducees were
more of the elite politicalparty and initially anybody
could be a part of the Phariseesas long as you followed the
(18:39):
rules.
With the Sadducees they were aselect group so everybody could
not join that particular party.
Jacqui (18:46):
Okay, yes, yes, yes.
What about, since you mentionedthose groups, what about the
temple and the synagogue?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (18:57):
You know the temple— Are they the same thing
?
No, no, the temple, of course,was where they went to make
their sacrifices and where theywent to worship, and that was it
.
Now, again, God is movingbecause the temples they don't
have the temples anymore, so nowthey have the synagogues.
The synagogues are the placeswhere not only did they worship,
(19:22):
but it was also teaching andministering and so forth I'm
using a modern word andministering and so forth, which
far exceeded the things thatthey did in the old temple.
So again, as we look at Godmoving and God doing and God
preparing for the fullness oftime, the synagogue is different
(19:45):
.
And, keep in mind too, thesynagogue was all over the place
.
So you had synagogues indifferent places, whereas with
the temples, typically it wasjust one temple where they would
go.
But the synagogues, you canmeet more people and serve more
people in any given time, moreso than the temple.
(20:06):
So it's a big difference inthat.
Okay, you didn't do thesacrifices and things in the
synagogue either, like they usedto do in the temple.
And remember, in the templeonly the priests could make the
sacrifices.
You know, you had to be amember of the Aaronic tribe in
order to do that.
So things have changed.
(20:27):
And then the other group you hadwas the zealots.
Now, again, when you thinkabout the zealots, those were
the people that they wereconsidered a revolutionary group
, and you know, we know what azealot is.
And even as I'm talking aboutthe Zealots now, I think, go
back to the Pharisees, becausein some sense, when they started
(20:48):
, they were very zealous aboutwhat they were doing.
And so you have the Zealots,who were very, very traditional
and they had their own way ofdoing things.
And again we have the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Zealots,
and then we have the Essenes.
This is another group, andthese were the ones that were by
themselves.
(21:08):
They didn't want to mess withanyone else.
Let's see what else Now.
The Essenes believed all Jewswere corrupt.
Yes, they believed.
And so you can imagine that,yes, they believed, and so you
can imagine that they themselveswere.
Jacqui (21:21):
Jews.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (21:22):
Yes, yes, okay.
They believed all Jews were theEssenes, believed all Jews were
corrupt and they moved awayfrom them.
They moved to the wilderness sothat they could do their own
thing.
Jacqui (21:34):
Okay.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (21:35):
And they didn't coexist.
They wanted to be by themselvesfor three reasons Okay, to
study't coexist.
They wanted to be by themselvesfor three reasons Okay, to
study, pray and meditate.
That's why they wanted to be bythemselves, and I guess the
bottom line is they didn't wantany distractions.
Leave us alone, let us go toour own and we're going to do
what it is we need to do.
(21:55):
We're going to pray, we'regoing to study and we're going
to meditate.
Jacqui (22:06):
And don't mess with us.
Okay, okay.
So another thing that came out,I think, out of this period,
were these unique writings,things that aren't necessarily
in the Bible, but came out ofthis silent year period.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (22:16):
Yeah, there were two groups of writings.
One is the Apocrypha.
Now some of the Bibles, eventoday, have the Apocrypha in
them, but the Apocrypha werewritings that were not
considered sacred.
They weren't inspired by God,no, they were not considered
sacred.
However, they filled in a lotof the missing pieces of that
(22:38):
time.
So, in other words, all thingswent into the Bible.
They were considered sacred,but there were a lot of other
things that happened during thistime, and so if you wanted to
kind of know the back story orthe rest of the story, that
would be the Apocrypha that youwould read to get that part of
it.
(22:59):
That Now the other one isPseudepigrapha.
Pseudepigrapha, and that iswhen they assign certain
writings to certain peoplebecause of who the people were.
One example, of course, isMoses.
They attribute the Torah toMoses, but most people don't
(23:22):
think Moses wrote it, especiallywhen you get to parts of the
Bible where Moses was alreadydead and they're talking about
it.
Another book would be theHebrews in the New Testament.
Everybody likes to attributePaul to the Hebrews, but when
you look at it, the thinking ispretty much on par with Paul.
(23:43):
But if you go back to look atall of Paul's writings.
Usually Paul identifies himselfin the first portions of the
Bible.
So that's one main giveaway whypeople say that Paul probably
did not write that.
And there's another book Ithink it was Ezra and some of
(24:04):
the others that they don'tbelieve were written by the
people that they ascribed themto, and so they put the
different names on them, I guess, to give it more clout, to give
it more credibility, and soforth.
So, yeah, so those were I can soforth.
Jacqui (24:20):
I remember years ago and being in a class or workshop or
something with you and eitheryou asked the question or you
answered the question what is apseudepigrapha?
And the rest of us were lookingaround like what Pseudepigrapha
?
Yes, you knew the answer.
Thank you for sharing.
(24:40):
Now we talked about all of thisultimately leading us to the
fullness of time or leading usto Jesus.
Just talk about how we getthere.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (24:53):
Well, there was always an expectation of
I'll say this a better day, thatJesus was going to come.
Even the one I like most is ascripture that we know.
Everybody knows the scripture,but this is a prophetic word
that he gave when they were backin Babylon.
(25:16):
Okay, it is Ezekiel, this iswhen they're in Babylon, for I
know the plans I have for you,plans to prosper you and not to
harm you, and plans to give youhope and a future life.
So, all through it, he wasgiving them prophetic words.
(25:39):
Another one was Micah.
He said in Micah but you, oBethlehem of Ephrath, who are
one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for
me one who is to rule in Israel,whose origin is from old, from
ancient days.
There's another one from Isaiah, for to us a child is born, his
(26:02):
son is given prince of peace,wonderful counselor, mighty God,
and so forth.
So throughout there weredifferent scriptures and so
forth.
There are different propheticwords throughout the Old
Testament that allowed them andmade them.
See, now, the interesting thingis that all of those things
traveled with them.
Okay, all of those things, allof those that thought and the
(26:26):
thinking that there is going tobe a better day.
There is someone coming.
It traveled, it didn't leavethem, even when they were punted
here and punted there.
And you know you would thinkyou know where is God.
It reminds me sometimes ofprobably what we're thinking
today, as we're looking at thecurrent political environment
and some of us are probablythinking you know, how did we
(26:48):
get here?
You know where are you, god inall of this?
And I guess the bottom line isyou know God's doing his thing
the way he wants to do it.
Jacqui (26:57):
Wow, thank you for that.
So what else haven't we talkedabout that went on during that
period, that our listeners needto know?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (27:07):
I would say that the main takeaway from this
is God is not silent.
Okay, the main takeaway fromthis is God doesn't always tell
us what he's doing.
Another main takeaway isthere's no way you're going to
have faith if you know everysingle move of God.
(27:29):
You're just not going to haveit.
Single move of God, you're justnot going to have it.
And so, when you get there, ifyou were to summarize what
happened during this period, toget to the fullness of time,
number one, there was dispersion, you know, around the world.
He had dispersed, keep in mind,he had dispersed the Jews
(27:50):
around all of the world, yes,and so that's a way that that
religion was spread around theworld, and so he had the roads
built.
That was another way that theycould get around and spread the
word.
Now, the other thing, though,is in Rome.
(28:11):
Now, we know that Jesus died ona cross.
Yes, where did that come from?
Where did that come from, thatform of punishment?
That was a form of punishment,but which regime had it?
Must be Rome.
It was Rome, okay, rome was theone that had the cross, and so
he also exposed them to crimeswith the cross, and so that also
(28:37):
came out during this period.
So God was very methodical inwhat he did in terms of getting
what needed to be done out andso that people would know at the
end and like they're writingthe gospels and so forth, that
people would know that it wasn'tby happenstance what happened
those 400 years.
Jacqui (28:57):
Yes, yes, I can just imagine the people during those
400 years holding on to thosepromises that you read off like
Jeremiah 29, 11.
Uh-huh.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (29:06):
Yes.
Jacqui (29:07):
Holding on to that, holding on waiting for this king
, waiting for this promise,waiting for this better life
that was coming.
That's all of that on thatblank page, On that blank page.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (29:21):
Yes, yes, yes, there was a lot.
There was a lot, but God was incontrol and, you know, he just
said, hey, I'm done talking, I'mdone talking, I'm going to do
what I am going to do, and whenyou?
You know, in hindsight we canlook back and see it, but they
were going through it, andthere's a big difference in
going through it and maintainingyour faith.
You know, first you put us inBabylon, and then Persia took us
(29:45):
, and then Greek took us, andthen Rome took us.
You know where are you?
I can understand that, you know.
I will say, though, I will say,though all of it was not cruel.
It wasn't all cruel.
The point was they weren't intheir homes like they wanted to
be, and they were spread outeverywhere.
But every regime was not cruelto them, okay, you know, and
(30:08):
allowed them to practice theirreligions and so forth.
Jacqui (30:12):
Okay, this is powerful.
I see another reason it'sreally powerful.
One of the things we've beentalking about in Bible Basics is
the importance of readingScripture in context and getting
to Matthew and not having anyidea about what happened before
(30:34):
Matthew, what was going on, whatwere the people experiencing,
what had they experienced?
If we don't have that, we don'thave a real like.
For instance, we don't reallyhave a great understanding of
the Pharisees.
We just think they're peopletrying to be obstructionists,
but we might not understand thatthey came from a place of
(30:54):
really trying to protect theirtraditions and all of that.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (30:59):
They really did.
Jacqui (31:01):
Wow, thank you for this.
So if it was a person who wasnew to reading the Bible but
really wanted to dig intounderstanding the
intertestamental period, wheremight you direct them?
How do they get started takinga closer look at that?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (31:16):
Okay, but before I say that, you mentioned
the Gospels and you mentionedMatthew.
I just want to say this we haveto keep in mind that the Gospels
were written decades afterJesus died, decades after he
died, after Jesus died, decadesafter he died.
And if you look at the way eachone of them presented the
(31:36):
Gospels, there is a differentperspective.
Let's see, matthew looked atall of the promises and
prophecies that were fulfilled.
That's what Matthew looked at.
Mark looked at the suffering,and so he portrays Jesus as the
suffering servant.
Yeah, and that's in Isaiah 53.
(32:00):
So that's the perspective hegives.
Now, again, hindsight, this iswhat they're looking back and
bringing back to the people.
And then Luke shows Jesus asthe compassionate Savior for all
humanity.
So, again, and then you haveJohn divinity.
John talks about Jesus'divinity is a collection or a
(32:32):
reflection of all of theinfluences that they have had
through all these years.
And then they have come up,inspired by God, with their
perception of who Jesus is, andso it's wide, and I don't know
(32:52):
that they would have had thathad they not gone through the
things that they had gonethrough.
Again, decades later, hindsight, and they're looking at all of
these things.
So you were asking me aquestion.
What was it, nell?
Jacqui (33:07):
Thank you for that, though.
Thank you for again.
That's part of this whole idea.
We're talking about context.
Even for the gospel writers tounderstand where they were
coming from, each one comingfrom individually had to do with
what had already occurred.
Even during those 400 yearsthat had already occurred.
What happened to the people?
(33:27):
Oh, I asked you for a newreader, or someone even an
experienced Bible reader, butanyone who wanted to look a
little closer at theintertestamental period.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (33:39):
Do you have any books or Well, the book that
I have is one by Balea, the 50years of the intertestamental
period, and you know, in thisday and time, a lot of this
stuff is on the computer.
You know that's where you'regoing to get the most up-to-date
, and so forth.
But the book that I wouldrecommend, though, is the one
(34:01):
from Belial, which talks aboutmoving through the 50 years of
the intertestamental period.
You know, so yeah, so that wasa good book.
Jacqui (34:12):
So was there anything else that I didn't ask?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:15):
No, that was fine.
But you know, when I thinkabout this entire period, one
song comes to my mind.
Jacqui (34:22):
Okay.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:23):
And it's Waymaker yes, because one of the
lines of that says even when Idon't see you, he's working.
You know he's a way maker.
Yes, and I think that thattotally capsulizes this whole
intestinal period the fullnessof time that even when I don't
see you, you are working.
(34:45):
Yes.
Jacqui (34:45):
You're keeping promises, you're making a way.
You're a miracle worker, yes,and you did that.
Yeah, you did that.
Amen, you did that.
Yeah, you did that, amen.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:53):
You did that .
And again, you know, hedispersed the Jews all around
the world.
He had roads for them to travel, he had one Greek language that
everyone could understand.
He had introduced the cross sothat this would be the way that
Jesus would go.
And he did this, you know, overtime, and it took a long time,
(35:15):
but you know he said I'm donetalking.
And so he did his work and atthe end we can see what he did
over those 400 years.
Jacqui (35:23):
Yes, and you mentioned the Greek language and to have
that subterranean, the God'sword, the law at that time,
god's word, put into thelanguage that other people could
read and understand.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (35:36):
Absolutely, it was.
Jacqui (35:38):
That's major.
That was a biggie, and thattranslation is what many current
, that version of the Bible iswhat many translations depend on
today.
So, wow, thank you.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (35:56):
Yeah, so, yeah, so it's an interesting
time.
Let's see.
Did I miss it?
Oh, the other thing, too, thatcame out of this time was peace.
Pax Rabana, this is what Romedid, and he ensured that there
was going to be peace.
He made sure, militarily, thatthere was going to be peace in
the land.
So that was another thing thatcame out of this period.
And you say the Septuagint, thecross, okay, and so now the
(36:17):
time was right.
Once he got all those thingsdone, the time was right, the
fullness of time came, and thenhe sent his son.
Now, the other thing is, thefirst person that he spoke to
after the intertestamentalperiod was over was Zechariah.
Oh, Zechariah, uh-huh, becauseZechariah birthed John the
(36:41):
Baptist.
Right, and.
John the Baptist was going to bethe first prophet.
Jacqui (36:45):
Right.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (36:46):
He told him he was going to have a child
after all of these years?
Jacqui (36:49):
Yes, Though they were aged, they were going to have a
son Right, absolutely.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (36:56):
Yes, and they never thought that would
happen.
But again, another miracle ofGod.
But, in His time, in thefullness of time, is what he did
, so this is an interesting time.
The other thing is I don'tthink that I've ever heard any
sermons or so coming from thisperiod of time explaining what
(37:16):
happened and how we got to theNew Testament and the 400 years
of the difference, the jumpbetween Malachi and to Matthew,
and all.
Jacqui (37:29):
That's the beauty of well schools like Kingdom
Building Institute, where youtaught and you actually taught
on this particular topic, andpodcasts like this where we
bring up these kinds of issues.
So, listeners, this is yourchance to get things that you
won't get anywhere else Right?
That's true, like you won't getanywhere else.
That's true Like ReverendSandra Glenn.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (37:51):
Well, I have to tell you that you know I had
never heard of anything likethe intertestamental period
until we were in the KingdomBuilding Equipment School, and
so it did open us up to thingswe had not heard about and it
was real interesting.
And again, with these podcasts,you know you do an excellent
job, jackie, of breaking thesethings down like you call
(38:13):
bite-sized.
Know you do an excellent job,jackie, of breaking these things
down like you call bite-sizedpieces.
You do an excellent job withthat.
So I applaud you.
Jacqui (38:18):
Keep up the good work, thank you, thank you.
It's a team effort and you alsoknow where some of my influence
comes from as well.
But, yeah, the fullness of time.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (38:29):
That's when Jesus sent his son the fullness
of time.
Yes, that's when Jesus sent hisson the fullness of time, not
before.
But I had to have all thesethings in place before I could
send my son to do what I havecalled him to do and what he
needs to do.
Jacqui (38:41):
Yes, Well listeners.
I hope this clears up.
I hope that you all now have amuch better understanding of
what happened between Malachiand Matthew, thanks to Reverend
Glenn.
So if you found thisinteresting or informative,
(39:02):
please like it, follow thepodcast, subscribe, but, most
importantly, share it withsomeone else who could benefit
from this knowledge.
The next episode we're going tohave, we're going to do a quick
review of the Gospels and jumpright into the book of Matthew,
(39:22):
so please join us then.
By the way, matthew starts anew season.
We're going to be startingseason five with Matthew, so I'm
looking forward to that and Ihope you all join us.
Meanwhile, keep reading, keepseeking and keep growing in your
faith.
Thank you, reverend Glenn.
Hi listeners, I'm just sitting here finishing up my
reading of the book of Malachi.
Read all about how the Jews areback in their homeland, the
temples built, they're under theauthority of the Persian Empire
and Malachi is written inHebrew.
(00:34):
That was the original language.
I turn the page.
I get a blank page and thenMatthew, which is originally
written in Greek, it's Rome, isthe superpower in charge and
(00:55):
it's a whole different situation, a whole different setting.
What happened?
What happened on this blankpage?
We need some information.
I'm Jacqui Adewole and this isthe Bible Basics Podcast, where
weekly we break down the basicsof the Bible into understandable
, bite-sized chunks.
(01:16):
And, thank God, today we havewith us someone who's going to
give us some answers.
We have Reverend Sandra Glenn.
She's a lifelong student and ateacher of God's Word.
Her passion for the kingdomshines through in everything she
does and I can certainly attestto that.
(01:38):
We've known each other for avery long time.
She's a passionate teacher.
She spent decades helpingpeople understand scripture and
their unique calling in buildingGod's kingdom.
She currently serves at Princeof Peace Community Church and
Healing Center, where she leadsboth the education and the
(02:01):
healing ministries and thehealing ministries.
Her love for teaching hastouched lives, in classrooms, in
workshops, in seminars and evenin everyday encounters, whether
it's at the grocery store or inthe streets of Baltimore
ministering to the homeless, oreven, of course, in her church
(02:21):
setting, and I'm so glad she'shere to help us unpack this
period between Malachi andMatthew called the
intertestamental period.
Welcome, Reverend Glenn.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (02:36):
Thank you, Jacqui, for such a wonderful
introduction.
It is my pleasure and privilegeto be here today.
Jacqui (02:42):
Great, Wonderful.
Well, let's get right into it.
Well, before we go into details, just kind of give us an
understanding about why eventalk about the intertestamental
period.
Why does it even matter Ifyou're somebody new to reading
the Bible?
Why shouldn't they click andturn off this video?
Why do they want to hear aboutthis intertestamental period?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (03:07):
Well, Jacqui , if we just listened to your
introduction, you told the wholestory.
You know that you jumped fromthis place to that place, and
then there is no leading intohow they got there.
And so that blank pagerepresents 400 years of many,
(03:27):
many things happening, many,many changes being made.
And so, again, when you getover there to Matthew, you know
there is a big leap from Malachito Matthew.
Yes, because a lot happened.
Jacqui (03:42):
Okay, well, let's hear about it.
What happened between what wenton 400 years?
You said 400 years.
Yes.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (03:53):
Yes, 400 years.
And so you talked about Malachiand I'm not going to go right
now in a lot of detail aboutMalachi, but you gave the lesson
on Malachi and you describedvery well all of the things that
God spoke to them about.
And so in Malachi, god hadgiven them, I think, about five
different disputes.
Now the interesting thing aboutthis is, you know, they didn't
(04:17):
feel loved and God was tellingthem well, you know, you were
sacrificing children, you reallydidn't honor me, you didn't
worship me like you should havethe tithes and the offerings,
you didn't do those kinds ofthings, the sacrifices, because
you know, back in the temple youhad to give an unblemished lamb
and here they were given thesick and whatever, I guess
(04:39):
probably their worst.
And so God wasn't happy withthat.
And the thing about it is,rather than them just accepting
what God was telling them, andGod always throughout continued
to say I love you, I have lovedyou, but they just didn't see it
.
They didn't catch that because,keep in mind, they had been in
(05:01):
a captivity, they've gonethrough a lot, and so they just
didn't see it.
And so I think, at thisjuncture, when you get to the
end of Malachi, if I were to usemy own language for God, I
would say I'm done talking.
That God is saying I'm donetalking, and so he closes that
(05:24):
book and then he begins to dowhat he's going to do.
Jacqui (05:28):
So, yes, so was he really?
I've heard people refer to itas the silent years.
Was he really silent?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (05:37):
He was silent in terms of prophetic
messages.
There was nothing given to themthrough the prophets Ezekiel,
isaiah, any of them.
He just shut them all down.
Malachi was the last one, andso it is in fact called the
silent years.
But was he silent?
Absolutely not.
He was busy.
(05:58):
There was a lot being done inorder to get to this point of
Matthew, and we call that thefullness of time.
So there were a lot of thingsthat had to be done before the
fullness of time came, and thefullness of time was when Jesus
came.
Jacqui (06:15):
Oh so that's where we're going.
Yes, yes, One of the things youheard me mention was that
Persia being the superpower inthe Old Testament and now we
have Rome.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat transition from Persia to
Rome?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (06:35):
Well, you know, I like to call this time
punting and when I say that,okay, so they were in Babylon.
They were in Babylon for 70years because God had told them
what he was going to do.
They still didn't listen, sothey were captured in Babylon.
So after 70 years, persia came.
So again I'm going to say theywere punted to Persia and they
(06:58):
were conquered by Persia.
Okay, then I think it was likeanother 200 years or so when
Persia was ruling.
And then from Persia they wentto Greece.
They were appointed to Greece,and so Greece, Alexander the
Great we'll get into that alittle bit later and then from
Greece they went to Rome.
And so every single one ofthose periods there was a lot of
(07:22):
things that went on that reallychanged a lot of their
perspective, because if you canimagine being in a place 100 and
200 years, you know there's nodoubt that you're going to
embrace some of their teachingsand some of their practices and
so forth.
And so when we get there, godhad done a lot to get them to
(07:43):
where he wanted them to be,where he needed them to be,
before he sent his son.
Jacqui (07:49):
Okay, okay, that's good to know and, as I recall, that
was even prophesied about.
Nebuchadnezzar had a dream andDaniel yes, indeed Absolutely
yes, that progression fromPersia to Greece.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:08):
He told them that, yes, he did.
Jacqui (08:10):
Wow.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:11):
Wow.
And throughout all of this,back back into the Old Testament
, there were prophetic wordsgiven throughout in terms of
what the fullness of time wasgoing to be.
I don't think they quiteunderstood it, but he was
telling them that he was goingto be there, he was going to
redeem them, he was going tobring them back and so forth.
Jacqui (08:30):
Okay, I jump ahead, go ahead.
Okay, well, go ahead and jumpahead.
Then tell us more about whatwas going on, what occurred
during these 400 years.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (08:38):
Well, when you think about Greek Persia,
Persia did allow them to worshipand allow them to do their own
things.
The most significant thing, orone of the most significant
things about Persia is they didallow them to practice their own
religion, and that wassignificant, and they didn't put
any bars or constraints on themabout that.
(09:00):
They were allowed to returnback to their homeland so they
could go back to Jerusalem.
But think about this Many ofthem didn't know anything about
Jerusalem Because they had beenin Babylon and they're Persia,
and so they really didn't know alot about Jerusalem, and so a
(09:22):
lot of them stayed.
But a remnant went back and, aswe will see and as we can
imagine, every time they wereappointed somewhere else, some
of them stayed.
And so then you go to Greek.
So now they're appointed toGreece.
Alexander the Great, andAlexander the Great, I think,
ruled for about 200 years Now.
(09:46):
Alexander the Great did a lot.
Now you just mentioned in youropening statement that when you
get to the New Testament,they're in Greek.
Okay, now this is during thattime that Alexander the Great
comes forth.
Alexander the Great is the onewho brings forth the Greek
language and he's the one whotried to get everybody to learn
one language.
And again, under Alexander theGreat, under his successor
(10:10):
Ptolemy, he did the Septuagint.
We're going to get to thatlater too, but the Septuagint
was that they would translatethe Hebrew Bible into Greek.
Keep in mind that it has beenyears since they had been
speaking the Hebrew language,and so the people here really
didn't know Hebrew, and thatmeans they couldn't read their
(10:33):
scripts, they couldn't readtheir scrolls, so Alexander the
Great came Now.
Alexander the Great was a greatmilitary person, great military
person.
One of the things that I mostremember about Alexander the
Great is that he was the one whocoined our use of a word that
(10:57):
we still even use today, andthat word is brother, because he
wanted to ensure that hismilitary people knew how he felt
about them, and so he began tocall them brother.
Wow, yes, he began to call thembrother, and even now, in
church and so forth, we refer toour people as brothers.
(11:20):
So I always remember that abouthim, and you know that today we
say bro this and bro that, butit is really a term of
endearment.
So he did a whole lot.
I want to say this, though ifyou were doing reading about
this, one of the things you willprobably see is Hellenistic.
You won't see Greek, becausethis is the word they use when
(11:44):
they talk about the Greekinfluence.
Hellenistic, that's the Greekinfluence.
Septuagint, because Ptolemyengaged 70 people, 70 scholars.
To translate from the Hebrew tothe Greek, septuagint means 70.
(12:10):
So that's how that name cameabout.
Let's see.
So that was about it for them.
But again I want to emphasizethat it is under this regime
that the Greek language became.
They were still under theregime and Rome.
(12:40):
They had already destroyed thefirst temple, which is the
temple that Solomon had builtZerubbabel under Persia, and all
went back and rebuilt thetemple Right, and then Rome
again and all of this was calledafter Persia was the Second
Temple period, and then Romedestroyed the Second Temple and
(13:06):
so after the Second Temple theydid not build a Third Temple,
but all of that period is knownas the Second Temple period.
The other significant thingabout Rome is they were heavily
militarized and they are knownthey engage in peace and that it
(13:27):
was peaceful.
So that was also a big thing.
(13:51):
As you move toward the fullnessof time Now, this is another
thing that you will not find inthe Bible, but I like it because
we all know about this.
And that is, this is whereCleopatra came in.
Okay, Cleopatra came in underthe Roman rule.
Cleopatra was the queen ofEgypt and she ruled.
(14:13):
Mark Anthony had some power inRome and you know the story.
They got together, they weremarried to other people but they
just had to be with each other,and it's a sordid story.
And then, you know, cleopatragot the word that Mark Anthony
was dead and so she committedsuicide, which was a lie, and
(14:34):
then, once he found out that shewas dead, he committed suicide.
So that's the sord of end tothat story.
But that's where they came in.
And a lot of us know aboutCleopatra, but we have no idea
where she falls into history.
But that's where it is underRoman rule.
But she was Egyptian.
Jacqui (14:52):
That's interesting.
I heard one other thing aboutthe Romans, because it goes to
something we talk about often inchurches, this step-by-step
process for salvation.
We refer to it as Romans Roadbecause it comes out of the Book
of Romans.
But the other thing I heardthat Rome was the empire that
(15:14):
was responsible for building alot of roads.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (15:19):
Absolutely, and I'm glad you mentioned that,
because I thought about thesebooklets about the Roman road,
and I think that's exactly whereit comes from that Rome was
known for building the roads andso forth.
Again, you know, god wasn'tsilent.
God wasn't silent, god knew,and so this was a way for the
people to go from place to place, especially when it comes to
(15:41):
spreading the word, you know.
So they had a lot of influencein terms of what they were
supposed to be doing and whatGod had in mind.
Now, we didn't see this andthey didn't see it and they
didn't understand it, but Godwas at work, doing what only God
can do.
Jacqui (15:57):
Wow, how were the Jews treated during this 400-year
period?
You mentioned that they startedout able to practice their
religion under Persia.
Did that continue?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (16:11):
on when you get to the Maccabean Revolt.
That was the time when theybegan to punish them for
practicing their religion, andso the Maccabean Revolt is an
(16:33):
answer to that, and I thinkabout Rosa Parks when she says
I'm sick and tired of being sickand tired, and so they revolted
.
That was the Maccabeean revolt,when that party decided they
did not want them to practicetheir religion.
Jacqui (16:45):
Wow.
Another thing I noticed lookingat Malachi and then looking at
Matthew.
In Matthew, jesus is dealingwith a group of people called
Pharisees, and it's a majorissue, but they weren't in
Malachi, so who?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (17:06):
Were these Pharisees and where did they
come from?
You know, when I first began tostudy the intertestamental
period and I read about theorigin of the Pharisees Now I'm
already in the New Testament butI began to read the origin and
I thought, boy, the Phariseeshave gotten a bad rap.
Okay, because all they wanted todo in these foreign lands was
(17:30):
to practice their religion.
And again I said how they hadthe Maccabean revolt.
But the Pharisees emerged as astrict group of people that
wanted to practice the rules andtraditions of the law.
So that's how they came to theNew Testament that they have
(17:56):
become so entrenched into doingthis, this, this, this and this
the way that they thought itshould be done that it came into
I'm jumping over there into theNew Testament that they began
to contradict a lot of thethings Jesus did when Jesus came
, and so that contributed to thetension, and that's one of the
things we're going to talk about, but that contributed to the
(18:17):
tension, and that's one of thethings we're going to talk about
.
But that contributed to thetension.
But that's how the Phariseesevolved.
And then, of course, you hadthe Sadducees.
That's another group, and theytoo came, but the Sadducees were
more of the elite politicalparty and initially anybody
could be a part of the Phariseesas long as you followed the
(18:39):
rules.
With the Sadducees they were aselect group so everybody could
not join that particular party.
Jacqui (18:46):
Okay, yes, yes, yes.
What about, since you mentionedthose groups, what about the
temple and the synagogue?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (18:57):
You know the temple— Are they the same thing
?
No, no, the temple, of course,was where they went to make
their sacrifices and where theywent to worship, and that was it
.
Now, again, God is movingbecause the temples they don't
have the temples anymore, so nowthey have the synagogues.
The synagogues are the placeswhere not only did they worship,
(19:22):
but it was also teaching andministering and so forth I'm
using a modern word andministering and so forth, which
far exceeded the things thatthey did in the old temple.
So again, as we look at Godmoving and God doing and God
preparing for the fullness oftime, the synagogue is different
(19:45):
.
And, keep in mind too, thesynagogue was all over the place
.
So you had synagogues indifferent places, whereas with
the temples, typically it wasjust one temple where they would
go.
But the synagogues, you canmeet more people and serve more
people in any given time, moreso than the temple.
(20:06):
So it's a big difference inthat.
Okay, you didn't do thesacrifices and things in the
synagogue either, like they usedto do in the temple.
And remember, in the templeonly the priests could make the
sacrifices.
You know, you had to be amember of the Aaronic tribe in
order to do that.
So things have changed.
(20:27):
And then the other group you hadwas the zealots.
Now, again, when you thinkabout the zealots, those were
the people that they wereconsidered a revolutionary group
, and you know, we know what azealot is.
And even as I'm talking aboutthe Zealots now, I think, go
back to the Pharisees, becausein some sense, when they started
(20:48):
, they were very zealous aboutwhat they were doing.
And so you have the Zealots,who were very, very traditional
and they had their own way ofdoing things.
And again we have the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Zealots,
and then we have the Essenes.
This is another group, andthese were the ones that were by
themselves.
(21:08):
They didn't want to mess withanyone else.
Let's see what else Now.
The Essenes believed all Jewswere corrupt.
Yes, they believed.
And so you can imagine that,yes, they believed, and so you
can imagine that they themselveswere.
Jacqui (21:21):
Jews.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (21:22):
Yes, yes, okay.
They believed all Jews were theEssenes, believed all Jews were
corrupt and they moved awayfrom them.
They moved to the wilderness sothat they could do their own
thing.
Jacqui (21:34):
Okay.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (21:35):
And they didn't coexist.
They wanted to be by themselvesfor three reasons Okay, to
study't coexist.
They wanted to be by themselvesfor three reasons Okay, to
study, pray and meditate.
That's why they wanted to be bythemselves, and I guess the
bottom line is they didn't wantany distractions.
Leave us alone, let us go toour own and we're going to do
what it is we need to do.
(21:55):
We're going to pray, we'regoing to study and we're going
to meditate.
Jacqui (22:06):
And don't mess with us.
Okay, okay.
So another thing that came out,I think, out of this period,
were these unique writings,things that aren't necessarily
in the Bible, but came out ofthis silent year period.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (22:16):
Yeah, there were two groups of writings.
One is the Apocrypha.
Now some of the Bibles, eventoday, have the Apocrypha in
them, but the Apocrypha werewritings that were not
considered sacred.
They weren't inspired by God,no, they were not considered
sacred.
However, they filled in a lotof the missing pieces of that
(22:38):
time.
So, in other words, all thingswent into the Bible.
They were considered sacred,but there were a lot of other
things that happened during thistime, and so if you wanted to
kind of know the back story orthe rest of the story, that
would be the Apocrypha that youwould read to get that part of
it.
(22:59):
That Now the other one isPseudepigrapha.
Pseudepigrapha, and that iswhen they assign certain
writings to certain peoplebecause of who the people were.
One example, of course, isMoses.
They attribute the Torah toMoses, but most people don't
(23:22):
think Moses wrote it, especiallywhen you get to parts of the
Bible where Moses was alreadydead and they're talking about
it.
Another book would be theHebrews in the New Testament.
Everybody likes to attributePaul to the Hebrews, but when
you look at it, the thinking ispretty much on par with Paul.
(23:43):
But if you go back to look atall of Paul's writings.
Usually Paul identifies himselfin the first portions of the
Bible.
So that's one main giveaway whypeople say that Paul probably
did not write that.
And there's another book Ithink it was Ezra and some of
(24:04):
the others that they don'tbelieve were written by the
people that they ascribed themto, and so they put the
different names on them, I guess, to give it more clout, to give
it more credibility, and soforth.
So, yeah, so those were I can soforth.
Jacqui (24:20):
I remember years ago and being in a class or workshop or
something with you and eitheryou asked the question or you
answered the question what is apseudepigrapha?
And the rest of us were lookingaround like what Pseudepigrapha
?
Yes, you knew the answer.
Thank you for sharing.
(24:40):
Now we talked about all of thisultimately leading us to the
fullness of time or leading usto Jesus.
Just talk about how we getthere.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (24:53):
Well, there was always an expectation of
I'll say this a better day, thatJesus was going to come.
Even the one I like most is ascripture that we know.
Everybody knows the scripture,but this is a prophetic word
that he gave when they were backin Babylon.
(25:16):
Okay, it is Ezekiel, this iswhen they're in Babylon, for I
know the plans I have for you,plans to prosper you and not to
harm you, and plans to give youhope and a future life.
So, all through it, he wasgiving them prophetic words.
(25:39):
Another one was Micah.
He said in Micah but you, oBethlehem of Ephrath, who are
one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for
me one who is to rule in Israel,whose origin is from old, from
ancient days.
There's another one from Isaiah, for to us a child is born, his
(26:02):
son is given prince of peace,wonderful counselor, mighty God,
and so forth.
So throughout there weredifferent scriptures and so
forth.
There are different propheticwords throughout the Old
Testament that allowed them andmade them.
See, now, the interesting thingis that all of those things
traveled with them.
Okay, all of those things, allof those that thought and the
(26:26):
thinking that there is going tobe a better day.
There is someone coming.
It traveled, it didn't leavethem, even when they were punted
here and punted there.
And you know you would thinkyou know where is God.
It reminds me sometimes ofprobably what we're thinking
today, as we're looking at thecurrent political environment
and some of us are probablythinking you know, how did we
(26:48):
get here?
You know where are you, god inall of this?
And I guess the bottom line isyou know God's doing his thing
the way he wants to do it.
Jacqui (26:57):
Wow, thank you for that.
So what else haven't we talkedabout that went on during that
period, that our listeners needto know?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (27:07):
I would say that the main takeaway from this
is God is not silent.
Okay, the main takeaway fromthis is God doesn't always tell
us what he's doing.
Another main takeaway isthere's no way you're going to
have faith if you know everysingle move of God.
(27:29):
You're just not going to haveit.
Single move of God, you're justnot going to have it.
And so, when you get there, ifyou were to summarize what
happened during this period, toget to the fullness of time,
number one, there was dispersion, you know, around the world.
He had dispersed, keep in mind,he had dispersed the Jews
(27:50):
around all of the world, yes,and so that's a way that that
religion was spread around theworld, and so he had the roads
built.
That was another way that theycould get around and spread the
word.
Now, the other thing, though,is in Rome.
(28:11):
Now, we know that Jesus died ona cross.
Yes, where did that come from?
Where did that come from, thatform of punishment?
That was a form of punishment,but which regime had it?
Must be Rome.
It was Rome, okay, rome was theone that had the cross, and so
he also exposed them to crimeswith the cross, and so that also
(28:37):
came out during this period.
So God was very methodical inwhat he did in terms of getting
what needed to be done out andso that people would know at the
end and like they're writingthe gospels and so forth, that
people would know that it wasn'tby happenstance what happened
those 400 years.
Jacqui (28:57):
Yes, yes, I can just imagine the people during those
400 years holding on to thosepromises that you read off like
Jeremiah 29, 11.
Uh-huh.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (29:06):
Yes.
Jacqui (29:07):
Holding on to that, holding on waiting for this king
, waiting for this promise,waiting for this better life
that was coming.
That's all of that on thatblank page, On that blank page.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (29:21):
Yes, yes, yes, there was a lot.
There was a lot, but God was incontrol and, you know, he just
said, hey, I'm done talking, I'mdone talking, I'm going to do
what I am going to do, and whenyou?
You know, in hindsight we canlook back and see it, but they
were going through it, andthere's a big difference in
going through it and maintainingyour faith.
You know, first you put us inBabylon, and then Persia took us
(29:45):
, and then Greek took us, andthen Rome took us.
You know where are you?
I can understand that, you know.
I will say, though, I will say,though all of it was not cruel.
It wasn't all cruel.
The point was they weren't intheir homes like they wanted to
be, and they were spread outeverywhere.
But every regime was not cruelto them, okay, you know, and
(30:08):
allowed them to practice theirreligions and so forth.
Jacqui (30:12):
Okay, this is powerful.
I see another reason it'sreally powerful.
One of the things we've beentalking about in Bible Basics is
the importance of readingScripture in context and getting
to Matthew and not having anyidea about what happened before
(30:34):
Matthew, what was going on, whatwere the people experiencing,
what had they experienced?
If we don't have that, we don'thave a real like.
For instance, we don't reallyhave a great understanding of
the Pharisees.
We just think they're peopletrying to be obstructionists,
but we might not understand thatthey came from a place of
(30:54):
really trying to protect theirtraditions and all of that.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (30:59):
They really did.
Jacqui (31:01):
Wow, thank you for this.
So if it was a person who wasnew to reading the Bible but
really wanted to dig intounderstanding the
intertestamental period, wheremight you direct them?
How do they get started takinga closer look at that?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (31:16):
Okay, but before I say that, you mentioned
the Gospels and you mentionedMatthew.
I just want to say this we haveto keep in mind that the Gospels
were written decades afterJesus died, decades after he
died, after Jesus died, decadesafter he died.
And if you look at the way eachone of them presented the
(31:36):
Gospels, there is a differentperspective.
Let's see, matthew looked atall of the promises and
prophecies that were fulfilled.
That's what Matthew looked at.
Mark looked at the suffering,and so he portrays Jesus as the
suffering servant.
Yeah, and that's in Isaiah 53.
(32:00):
So that's the perspective hegives.
Now, again, hindsight, this iswhat they're looking back and
bringing back to the people.
And then Luke shows Jesus asthe compassionate Savior for all
humanity.
So, again, and then you haveJohn divinity.
John talks about Jesus'divinity is a collection or a
(32:32):
reflection of all of theinfluences that they have had
through all these years.
And then they have come up,inspired by God, with their
perception of who Jesus is, andso it's wide, and I don't know
(32:52):
that they would have had thathad they not gone through the
things that they had gonethrough.
Again, decades later, hindsight, and they're looking at all of
these things.
So you were asking me aquestion.
What was it, nell?
Jacqui (33:07):
Thank you for that, though.
Thank you for again.
That's part of this whole idea.
We're talking about context.
Even for the gospel writers tounderstand where they were
coming from, each one comingfrom individually had to do with
what had already occurred.
Even during those 400 yearsthat had already occurred.
What happened to the people?
(33:27):
Oh, I asked you for a newreader, or someone even an
experienced Bible reader, butanyone who wanted to look a
little closer at theintertestamental period.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (33:39):
Do you have any books or Well, the book that
I have is one by Balea, the 50years of the intertestamental
period, and you know, in thisday and time, a lot of this
stuff is on the computer.
You know that's where you'regoing to get the most up-to-date
, and so forth.
But the book that I wouldrecommend, though, is the one
(34:01):
from Belial, which talks aboutmoving through the 50 years of
the intertestamental period.
You know, so yeah, so that wasa good book.
Jacqui (34:12):
So was there anything else that I didn't ask?
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:15):
No, that was fine.
But you know, when I thinkabout this entire period, one
song comes to my mind.
Jacqui (34:22):
Okay.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:23):
And it's Waymaker yes, because one of the
lines of that says even when Idon't see you, he's working.
You know he's a way maker.
Yes, and I think that thattotally capsulizes this whole
intestinal period the fullnessof time that even when I don't
see you, you are working.
(34:45):
Yes.
Jacqui (34:45):
You're keeping promises, you're making a way.
You're a miracle worker, yes,and you did that.
Yeah, you did that.
Amen, you did that.
Yeah, you did that, amen.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (34:53):
You did that .
And again, you know, hedispersed the Jews all around
the world.
He had roads for them to travel, he had one Greek language that
everyone could understand.
He had introduced the cross sothat this would be the way that
Jesus would go.
And he did this, you know, overtime, and it took a long time,
(35:15):
but you know he said I'm donetalking.
And so he did his work and atthe end we can see what he did
over those 400 years.
Jacqui (35:23):
Yes, and you mentioned the Greek language and to have
that subterranean, the God'sword, the law at that time,
god's word, put into thelanguage that other people could
read and understand.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (35:36):
Absolutely, it was.
Jacqui (35:38):
That's major.
That was a biggie, and thattranslation is what many current
, that version of the Bible iswhat many translations depend on
today.
So, wow, thank you.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (35:56):
Yeah, so, yeah, so it's an interesting
time.
Let's see.
Did I miss it?
Oh, the other thing, too, thatcame out of this time was peace.
Pax Rabana, this is what Romedid, and he ensured that there
was going to be peace.
He made sure, militarily, thatthere was going to be peace in
the land.
So that was another thing thatcame out of this period.
And you say the Septuagint, thecross, okay, and so now the
(36:17):
time was right.
Once he got all those thingsdone, the time was right, the
fullness of time came, and thenhe sent his son.
Now, the other thing is, thefirst person that he spoke to
after the intertestamentalperiod was over was Zechariah.
Oh, Zechariah, uh-huh, becauseZechariah birthed John the
(36:41):
Baptist.
Right, and.
John the Baptist was going to bethe first prophet.
Jacqui (36:45):
Right.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (36:46):
He told him he was going to have a child
after all of these years?
Jacqui (36:49):
Yes, Though they were aged, they were going to have a
son Right, absolutely.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (36:56):
Yes, and they never thought that would
happen.
But again, another miracle ofGod.
But, in His time, in thefullness of time, is what he did
, so this is an interesting time.
The other thing is I don'tthink that I've ever heard any
sermons or so coming from thisperiod of time explaining what
(37:16):
happened and how we got to theNew Testament and the 400 years
of the difference, the jumpbetween Malachi and to Matthew,
and all.
Jacqui (37:29):
That's the beauty of well schools like Kingdom
Building Institute, where youtaught and you actually taught
on this particular topic, andpodcasts like this where we
bring up these kinds of issues.
So, listeners, this is yourchance to get things that you
won't get anywhere else Right?
That's true, like you won't getanywhere else.
That's true Like ReverendSandra Glenn.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (37:51):
Well, I have to tell you that you know I had
never heard of anything likethe intertestamental period
until we were in the KingdomBuilding Equipment School, and
so it did open us up to thingswe had not heard about and it
was real interesting.
And again, with these podcasts,you know you do an excellent
job, jackie, of breaking thesethings down like you call
(38:13):
bite-sized.
Know you do an excellent job,jackie, of breaking these things
down like you call bite-sizedpieces.
You do an excellent job withthat.
So I applaud you.
Jacqui (38:18):
Keep up the good work, thank you, thank you.
It's a team effort and you alsoknow where some of my influence
comes from as well.
But, yeah, the fullness of time.
Rev. Saundra Glenn (38:29):
That's when Jesus sent his son the fullness
of time.
Yes, that's when Jesus sent hisson the fullness of time, not
before.
But I had to have all thesethings in place before I could
send my son to do what I havecalled him to do and what he
needs to do.
Jacqui (38:41):
Yes, Well listeners.
I hope this clears up.
I hope that you all now have amuch better understanding of
what happened between Malachiand Matthew, thanks to Reverend
Glenn.
So if you found thisinteresting or informative,
(39:02):
please like it, follow thepodcast, subscribe, but, most
importantly, share it withsomeone else who could benefit
from this knowledge.
The next episode we're going tohave, we're going to do a quick
review of the Gospels and jumpright into the book of Matthew,
(39:22):
so please join us then.
By the way, matthew starts anew season.
We're going to be startingseason five with Matthew, so I'm
looking forward to that and Ihope you all join us.
Meanwhile, keep reading, keepseeking and keep growing in your
faith.
Thank you, reverend Glenn.
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