July 29, 2025 • 35 mins
What if the way you’ve been taught to provide… isn’t actually what God intended?
In this episode of the Bible Bish Podcast, Za Smith opens up about what it means to be a covering, not just a provider. He shares a deeply personal story about looking for his father in the stands…and how it revealed something powerful about God the Father’s love.
We dive into:
- How performing for God and for others can block true connection
- Why being weak in front of your wife might actually be your greatest strength
- What it means to submit first as a man
- The difference between pampering and perfecting love
- How asking better questions can unlock breakthrough in your relationship with God and others
This isn’t just for men. It’s for anyone wrestling with performance, provision, and what biblical love really looks like in practice.
✨ There’s something holy about humility -and if you’ve been in your wilderness season, you’re not behind. You’re just getting ready.
Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!
Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️
Follow and connect:
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TikTok: @bible.bish
Music & more: @kayleybish
Website: www.biblebish.com
💌 Got a testimony or question? Email me at kayley@biblebish.com
In the name of love, this is your Bible Bish reporting for duty. ♡
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Za (00:00):
success is traumatic
Kayley (00:01):
man, I'm not getting an answer to this prayer
And he's like, well, you'renot praying the right thing,
Za (00:05):
there's goodness attached to your discomfort,
Kayley (00:07):
as soon as I took care of the self-loathing
within hours I made somuch money that night.
Well, hello there everybody.
My name is Kayley Bishopand welcome to the Bible
Bish Podcast, where Ihope you came for the tea.
(00:30):
That you're gonna stayfor the truth, and then
possibly my prayer is thatyou would leave changed.
And I'm so excited becausethe person that I've got on
the podcast as my guest todayis a dear friend of mine.
He's a spirit filledman, a beautiful singer
and songwriter in town.
This is my dear friend Za Smith.
Za (00:49):
What is first, let me just say, that's a heck of an intro.
That's a really cool intro.
Intro.
Kayley (00:54):
Did you like that?
Za (00:55):
I did, I did.
Kayley (00:56):
See, here's the thing, you just can't worry, right?
You can't worry about anything.
A friend of mine has a90, I think she's like 94
years old, or 84 years old.
Mm-hmm.
And she was like, uh, grandma,what's the secret to long life?
And she was like, honey, youcannot worry about anything man.
And it's so biblical.
Za (01:14):
It really is.
And I think what's so coolabout that too is like for
people that are in that stageof life, they've understood
there's an art to that.
As well.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like there's, it's somethingthat you have to practice.
Kayley (01:29):
Oh, 100%.
Za (01:30):
And it's very, very difficult.
Of course.
Otherwise, Godwouldn't tell us to.
Kayley (01:36):
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think he knewthat we were gonna be so
terrified all the time.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's why he says do notfear 365 times in the Bible.
Za (01:46):
That's right, one for each day.
Kayley (01:47):
One for each day.
I mean, like he knew whatwe were gonna struggle with.
Yeah.
And it really is a practiceof taking every cap thought,
every thought captive, andmaking it obedient to Christ.
It's like anytime I start toget worried, he's like, stop
putting on that yoke of fear.
I didn't give that to you.
Take it off.
Yeah.
Why don't you justget yoked to me.
We're gonna walk and we'regonna laugh and we're
(02:08):
gonna take a slow pace.
You, you're not gonna sweat.
Za (02:12):
Geez.
Geez, dude.
I mean, that's literallyright on on point timing
wise as well because
Kayley (02:18):
tell me where you're at right now.
Za (02:19):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I would say where I'm atright now, I'm learning a
new level of letting go.
Okay.
Best way I can say that,this has been a very fast
moving six months, I'd say.
Things have been like reallymoving fast and it's been
a really blessed time.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, all at the same time, Ionce heard someone say that,
(02:42):
um, success is traumatic.
Kayley (02:45):
Ooh.
Yeah.
Okay.
Unpack that for me.
Za (02:48):
So just like anything else in life.
And that's not me also sayinglike, I'm super successful right
now, you know, but with, withanswered prayers coming to pass.
Okay.
And with, more of thethings that I've been
hoping for actually becominga part of my reality.
Right?
Yeah.
that thought of successbeing traumatic, when you
(03:08):
think about trauma, trauma.
Is attached to triggers, right?
Yep.
But you don't know whatthose triggers are until
you're in a situationwhere you're triggered.
Kayley (03:18):
Triggered, right?
Yeah.
Za (03:18):
And then from there, you're learning and becoming more
and more aware, and you're,you're getting to the root
of what those things are.
You're getting to a placeof understanding what to
do when you are triggeredand how to properly process
those things, right?
So for me.
I'm in a spot where a lotof things are coming to
pass all glory to God.
I'm thankful for it.
Kayley (03:38):
Yeah, totally.
Za (03:39):
But there's the backside to the blessing.
Yeah.
The burden side of it being,oh, I didn't know that I
would feel this way attachedto this thing happening.
Oof.
I didn't know thatwhen I experienced.
This answered prayer over here.
Just keeping it kind of vagueas as of right now, but when
I experienced this answeredprayer over here that you would
(04:01):
show me the 7-year-old in methat is attached to really
what you're doing through thatthing, it's not even really
about that thing happening.
Mm-hmm.
Because obviously there'salways, we've talked
about this a bunch.
Yeah.
There's this, this walkbetween doing and being
Kayley (04:17):
Yes.
Right.
Doing and being,
Za (04:18):
doing and being.
And so he's like, okay, cool.
I'm gonna allow your doing toexpose another side of being
that I want you to grow in.
Mm-hmm.
And so all of that comes withletting go of expectations
of what it's supposed to looklike when you're going through.
Answer prayers.
Kayley (04:37):
Oh, that's so good.
Yeah.
You know, I have beensaying this for a while.
God has healed me in layers.
Mm. And the thing is, as longas I'm walking around on this
earth, I'm gonna encounter pain.
Yeah.
Just because we're born into sinand we live in a fallen world.
Yeah.
We're, we all fall shortof the glory of God.
And so you're gonna encounterpeople that don't know him
that are gonna be cruel.
(04:57):
Yeah.
And there are gonna betimes that my flesh rises
up and is cruel, you know?
And yeah, hopefully notbecause I just love Jesus
too much to do that.
But, but like in his mercy, Godhas healed me layer by layer.
I think if he revealed allthe truths about me, like
spirit, body, and soul.
I would just fall apart and die.
(05:18):
Yeah.
Like he's like, you can't handleall that information at once.
Like, I gotta gently justpeel back layer by layer.
Yes.
And he's so good.
Za (05:26):
That is, that's so on point, because also too is
there's, there's a pace.
To your healing.
Kayley (05:33):
Yeah.
You know, can't rush it.
Za (05:34):
You just you , can't rush it.
Kayley (05:36):
He rushes it sometimes.
Yeah.
He can expedite it.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember when hesaid, I'm gonna redeem the
years of Locust have eaten.
Za (05:42):
That's right.
Kayley (05:42):
And he sure did.
Yeah.
But that's on his timing.
Za (05:45):
That's that's on his.
And also too, when he does speedup the process or put us in a
spot where we're uncomfortableand it's like, Lord, why
are things moving so fast?
Why are you allowing this?
Uh, why are you allowingme to feel this over
and over and over again?
Why are these triggers comingover and over and over again?
Kayley (06:02):
Yeah.
Za (06:02):
Oftentimes he's like, it's because I need you to be here.
In who you are ata certain point.
Mm. With what I wantto do through you.
Yeah.
Like I need, you know,you think about the, the
children of Israel, right?
Mm-hmm.
That, you know, their exodusout of Egypt was really supposed
to be an 11 day journey.
And this is also somethingrelative to where I'm
(06:22):
supposed, supposed to be at.
Kayley (06:23):
This is nuts.
Za (06:24):
Oh lord.
Uh, so, but it was supposed tobe an 11 day journey, right?
And wilderness seasons aresupposed to represent God
stripping you of things thatcan't go into the next season.
Kayley (06:36):
Yeah.
Za (06:37):
And adding to you the things that you need in order to
Kayley (06:40):
come on
Za (06:40):
fully be everything he wants you to be in the next season.
Right?
Yep.
obviously for them.
It ended up being muchlonger than 11 days.
Yeah, 40 years.
Longer than 11 days.
Kayley (06:50):
They were kicking and screaming.
Za (06:51):
Kicking and screaming the whole time.
Kayley (06:52):
The whole time,
Za (06:53):
right.
Something I've been sitting inbetween me and God relative to
that where there's transitionin my life is, I think I've
expected for the 11 days to feela lot shorter than they actually
are, and he's like, yeah, no,it's not that you're off pace.
It's not that you're ina season where, I'm, I'm
(07:14):
forcing you to repeat thislesson or X, y, Z because
you're not hitting the mark.
It's because you'rein your 11 days.
Mm. And you have to be okaywith being in your 11 days.
Now, if you aren't leaningin and allowing me to do
what I wanna do in those11 days, that's when
it turns to 40 years.
Kayley (07:32):
Mm. Okay.
Za (07:33):
But if you allow me.
To do everything that I'mwanting to do in this.
And, and you recognize thefact that there's goodness
attached to your discomfort,and that's the perspective
that you're trying to sit in.
That's where I can strip youthe things that you can't take.
Kayley (07:51):
Yeah.
Za (07:51):
And that's where can add the things that you need.
Because also too, youthink about the, the nation
of Israel after they gotout of the wilderness.
They were conquerors.
Mm-hmm.
They were to go in to Canaan.
Kayley (08:05):
Yeah.
Conquer.
Za (08:06):
Conquer.
You know?
Um, and so there's differentareas of my life right now.
Really long-winded answerto your question, but
that's how we talk anyway.
Kayley (08:16):
Yeah, that's true.
Za (08:16):
Um, but yeah, there are, there are different things in
my life right now where Godis allowing answered prayers
to reveal to me more and more.
Where I'm in my 11 days.
Kayley (08:30):
That's so good.
I mean, you sort of to touchedon something where it's, it's
like you're not in your 11 days'cause you did something wrong.
Yeah.
That is such a habit of mine.
Like I have shamed myselfso much like, and it's
something that God reallywanted to work on me.
Like he actually healedme a couple weeks ago.
He's like, you've beenwalking around with
so much self-loathing.
Yeah.
Like as soon as somethingdoesn't go right, you shame
(08:52):
yourself as if you did somethingwrong and you hate yourself.
And he's like, you are actually,because you're partnering
with the enemy's lies.
Yeah.
You're making anagreement with the enemy.
Yep.
On that.
It's, it's affectinghow I Bless you.
Za (09:07):
Geez,
Kayley (09:08):
it's affecting your finances.
Yeah.
And it was, I mean, I wasin a financial drought
and I was like, yeah,meanwhile I'm not worrying.
Right.
'cause I've just learned itdoesn't make sense to worry
when God's always got my back.
Za (09:18):
Yep.
Kayley (09:19):
But like I'm still now, now questioning like,
Lord, what's going on?
Za (09:22):
Yeah.
Kayley (09:22):
Like I'm not making money like I normally would.
Za (09:24):
Right.
Kayley (09:25):
What is happening?
And he's like, we gotta takecare of your self-loathing.
And as soon as I tookcare of the self-loathing
within hours I made.
I made so much money that night.
Wow.
That very night.
Wow, man.
And then in the middle ofthe night, I had all, all
these prophetic dreams.
He's waking me up.
I get up at four in the morningto write down my dreams and
I check my phone and I havethis invitation to go to Japan
(09:47):
for two months to play music.
Za (09:49):
Geez.
Man
Kayley (09:50):
to basically cover all my bills for the
summer and, and I'm justlike, this is nuts, Lord.
Like yeah.
We do not fight againstflesh and blood, but the
principalities and theauthorities of the unseen realm.
That's right.
And so it's like when youare making these agreements
of, I suck, like it's all,my fault, da da, the enemy
wants you to agree with thatbecause then he can, he can
(10:12):
be a buffer or a stumblingblock to how God blesses you.
Za (10:16):
So accurate.
It also speaks to how muchGod knows us as his children.
Kayley (10:20):
Yeah.
Za (10:20):
Like we've talked about siblings and things like that.
Yes.
And I know for me, eventhough we all come from, from
the same family, you know.
We're wired differentin different ways.
Kayley (10:31):
Yes.
Za (10:32):
And just like any other good parents, it's like, okay,
I, I know how to get throughto this child and I know how
to get through to this child.
Kayley (10:38):
Sure.
Za (10:39):
And it's not the same thing.
No, but.
The lesson that I'm wantingto teach is the same thing,
and I just, I'd love howfor you, that lesson of
self-loathing that he wantedto walk you through mm-hmm.
Was attached to the practical,Lord, I need money right now.
I know.
Why am I not experiencing that?
Kayley (10:57):
I would never, never have known that.
I would never put that together.
Za (10:59):
Yep.
So good.
It's so good.
Kayley (11:02):
Okay.
But now you're touchingon something else.
Yeah.
And you're touching on thereason I wanted to bring you
on the, on the podcast, becauseI, I want you to talk about as
how, as a man you relate to God.
Like how does He disciple you?
Like even within acommunity of men?
Yes.
How do you hear him when you'restrong, does that affect how
emotional you can be with God?
(11:23):
Yeah.
Because I feel like menhave a hard time with Yeah.
Being emotional orexpressing emotion.
So I just gave youa, a huge buffet
Za (11:30):
That's okay.
Kayley (11:30):
Of things to talk about.
So lay it on me.
Za (11:33):
Oof.
Where do you
Kayley (11:34):
start wherever you wanna start.
Za (11:36):
Well, um, first I'll just start talking about me and
then I'll relate it to whatI think most men experience,
if not all for me, I comefrom a family with a really,
really, really loving dad.
Mm, incredibly lovingfather did everything that
he could to be present.
The type of home that I grew upin was very different than the
(11:58):
type of home that he grew up in.
Kayley (12:00):
Okay.
Za (12:00):
And so his image of a father, um.
And the type of fatherthat he actually was
two different things.
Mm. And so I know for meright now, I've been talking
through different thingswith, with different mentors
and also with my dad as well.
Like, man, where does thisneed to perform come into
play when it comes to myrelationship with God?
(12:22):
Because the, I didn't feel thatin my relationship with you.
I didn't feel like Ihad to earn your love
or earn your blessings.
Kayley (12:29):
So good.
Za (12:29):
Right.
That's not what Iexperienced with my
relationship with my own dad.
So, with my Heavenly Father,I'm, I'm trying to unpack it.
At the same time, I do havevery vivid memories of like,
like I'll just take, when Iused to play football, right?
I'm kid playing football,running the ball, and there's
(12:50):
an image of me consistentlylooking over to my right
as I'm, I'm bending thecorner to try to make it
up field, and I'm lookingfor my dad in the stands.
While I'm mid play,I'm running the ball.
I got defenders running at mewhole nine, and I'm looking
up and I'm, I'm trying to seeif he's, he's watching right?
And he's in the stand andhe's like, look forward.
(13:13):
He could see me looking overat him, you know what I mean?
He's like, look ahead, you know,
Kayley (13:16):
you're so sweet.
Za (13:17):
But he, he would run with me down the sideline.
Anytime I got the rock oranytime I got, you know, a,
a big tackle or whatever,he was right there.
Right.
Kayley (13:27):
That's gonna make me cry.
That's such a beautifuldepiction of fatherhood.
Za (13:30):
Yeah, it is.
Ah, so for me now, as a husband,and as someone who, who desires
to be a father one day, it'slike, Lord, where does the need?
to perform or earn your love?
Where?
Where does inadequacy, when itcomes to my relationship with
you, where does that come from?
Kayley (13:49):
Yeah,
Za (13:49):
right, and to be honest with you, I don't feel like I
fully have an answer yet, butI do know that God being the
loving father, that he is thesame way my dad knew exactly.
The pace that I needed.
And obviously my dad wasn'tperfect or anything like that.
Mm-hmm.
But he knew therewas a certain pace of
affirmation that I neededto say, Hey man, that was great.
(14:14):
Now look ahead.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like things like that.
I, , I feel like theheavenly father that we
serve is the exact sameway with us as men now.
I think also too, our viewof God as men is very much
tainted by what culture'sunderstanding of what a man is.
Kayley (14:34):
Do you feel like that's shifted a lot as of late too?
Like following theMe Too movement?
Unpack what you mean bythat because I'm curious.
Za (14:41):
Yeah.
So I, I was thinking aboutwhat it means to be a covering.
Kayley (14:45):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Za (14:47):
Obviously in being a follower of Christ, our goal
is to try to be a reflectionof him in every way possible.
Kayley (14:54):
Sure.
Right.
Za (14:56):
So I think about some of the pressures that I
feel as a husband to try tocover my family financially.
Mm-hmm.
All very practicalthings as well, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Financially, I wannabe a great protector.
You not just rollingup in my house, bro.
I'm, you know, that you notjust, you can't get to my, yeah.
But yeah, you got in a lot ofways, very practical things,
(15:18):
but I think sometimes the, theenemy will distort that and
make us think that that's whatGod is expecting of us, to
qualify us as a, as a covering.
I'm gonna unpack it a bit more.
Okay.
Again, there'spracticality to it.
Kayley (15:32):
Yeah.
Of course.
Za (15:36):
There isn't a place in the Bible that you will find.
Where Jesus says, in orderto be a proper covering,
you have to be thebreadwinner of your house.
You don't see that in the Bible.
Kayley (15:47):
Man.
I think men need tohear that right now.
It's Well 'cause it'sso inherent to, to men
to want to provide.
Right.
Because it also says inscripture, a man that doesn't
provide for his family, isworse than an unbeliever.
Za (15:58):
That's right.
Kayley (15:58):
But that's interesting that you would say that.
Za (16:00):
So then comes to the question of what
does it mean to provide.
Kayley (16:04):
Oh, snap, Za, okay, let's go there.
Yeah.
Tell me what doesit mean to provide
Za (16:09):
Well, I,
Kayley (16:09):
this is good.
Za (16:10):
It's, it's, man, so I'll just a little bit of
context with me and my wife.
So we come from two differenthomes, two different
backgrounds in a lot of ways.
And so, um, when we firstgot together, and even still
now, we've been together sixyears this year and married
four, this is amazing.
There's still this unpackingof, Family of origin things.
Kayley (16:31):
Mm. Right.
Mm-hmm.
Za (16:32):
And I'll never forget this, there was a time when we
first got together, woo Lord.
There was a time when wefirst got together and, um,
we were in a disagreementand I remember yelling out,
I'm not a inappropriate word.
Right.
And I, and, and really,I didn't realize that
(16:53):
at the time, but I was.
Really saying it to myself.
Mm. And she said it in sucha, a, a loving and sweet way.
She was like, I never, I'venever once thought that,
never once thought that
Kayley (17:05):
she is so sweet.
Za (17:06):
She's the best.
Kayley (17:06):
She's just so peaceful and loving.
Za (17:08):
Yes.
But what she said to followgave me a new understanding
of what it meant to provide.
So she said, your abilityto be weak with me is
why I see you as strong.
I'm the person thatyou're supposed to be
able to be weak with.
Kayley (17:25):
Yeah.
That's,
Za (17:25):
I'm the person that you're supposed to be able
to unpack what you're feelingemotionally or the the pressures
of life that you're right.
Yeah.
Honestly, even in anotherpractical way, there are
things that God literallycouldn't bless me with
until I had someone to helpme carry the burden of it.
Kayley (17:44):
Wow.
Yeah.
Za (17:46):
You know?
Kayley (17:47):
Yes.
Za (17:47):
And so her, so expectation of me as a husband, of course
she expects me to go outthere and, and work and make
sure that I'm bringing moneyto the Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.
You know what I mean?
And the goal is for me to bea breadwinner in my house.
Mm-hmm.
Not from the place anymore,of it being I have to because
my manhood is attached to it.
(18:09):
Mm. Now it's, I want to givemy life my wife the most.
Easy life that I canbecause I love her.
Yeah.
Purely from a place of love.
It's not an expectationthat she's put on me.
Mm. It's not a thing that'slike, oh yeah, you know, you're
inadequate as a man if you'renot doing this thing for her.
(18:29):
Of course, she does value megoing out and getting it and
doing all the things, butshe values me being present.
She values me being ahusband that will cover
his home in prayer.
She values me being, come on,sensitive to the things that
she's going to going through.
Yeah.
Like that's another man.
(18:50):
I used to feel like I hadto solve every one of her
problems, when really shejust wanted me to be present.
Mm. And also too, I heardthis from the Lord as well,
even though I'm her covering.
She's still his daughter andthere are things that, that
he's going to take her throughthat I really won't know about
(19:10):
until the other side of it.
Kayley (19:11):
Wow.
Yeah.
Za (19:12):
You know, like there's, there are things within
her, there's aspects ofwho she is that she's
unaware of at this point.
Talking about that pace ofhealing, talking about that
pace of, now I'm showing youanother side of who you are,
there are things that I, Icouldn't fix if I wanted to.
So my responsibility as herhusband, as her covering
(19:34):
is to pray for her.
Kayley (19:35):
Do you think, well, I guess, have you ever
fallen in this confusionof, okay, I am her covering.
Mm-hmm.
But while simultaneouslytrying to be her, God?
Za (19:46):
Yes.
Kayley (19:47):
Okay.
Like solving all the issues?
Za (19:48):
Yes.
Kayley (19:49):
Do you feel like you see that with a lot of men?
Za (19:51):
A thousand percent.
Kayley (19:51):
Okay.
So what would you.
Say to those guys Andwhat did, how did you kind
of break through that?
Za (19:57):
Well, I think it starts with your own submission.
Kayley (19:59):
Okay.
Za (20:00):
I think you being in a place where the Holy Spirit reveals to
you where you're wrong or whereyou're out of place mm-hmm.
Is important, first andforemost, because for me, as,
as a husband, the, the, the bestthing that I can do, and that's
not to say, again, I keep goingback to this practicality of.
The needs of life, right?
Mm-hmm.
Those exist as well,
Kayley (20:21):
right of course.
Za (20:22):
But for everything that I don't know, for every experience
that my wife has, that I don'tknow or, or every trigger
that she has, that she justtries her best to wear well.
Mm-hmm.
The Holy Spirit does know.
And so for me, the firstthing that I can do is
to submit unto the Lord.
Allow the Holy Spirit toguide me with discernment
(20:43):
to guide me with.
There's been plenty oftimes where he is told
me, shut your mouth.
This is not theright time to talk.
I'm so, you know, don't,this is not the time to talk.
Wow.
This is the time to listen.
Mm. Or Yeah, she ain'tgonna like this, but I want
you to say it right now.
Ugh.
So.
But that all comesfrom the Holy Spirit.
(21:05):
The call is for wives tosubmit unto their husband
as he submits unto the Lord.
Kayley (21:11):
Yes.
Za (21:12):
So it starts with you being in a place of submission.
Mm-hmm.
Where you're able to hearfrom the Holy Spirit where
you are out of place.
Mm-hmm.
Because again, as loving ofa husband, as I aim to be,
I couldn't fix all of herproblems if I wanted to,
and I may do more harm bytrying to do it off of my
own strength, which islike any, anything else in
(21:33):
life where when you do itoff of your own strength,
it's gonna always fail.
Kayley (21:37):
Yeah.
Za (21:38):
So being in a place of sensitivity to the Holy
Spirit and how he wantsyou to cover his daughter.
Kayley (21:46):
That's so good.
And I think it's In Ephesianswhere it's like, husbands, sub
husbands love your wives, loveyour wives, love your wives.
Wives submit to your husbands.
And I always go back to like,the husband loves your wive part
because it says it three times.
Yeah.
And I'm like, it would be easyto submit to a man that loved me
three times as much as God said.
Yeah.
It's like, because what does itlook like for a man to love me?
Za (22:08):
Yeah.
Kayley (22:08):
I mean, the man that I want Yeah.
Is gonna love me with analignment with Holy Spirit.
Za (22:15):
That's right.
Kayley (22:15):
He's gonna love me the way Holy Spirit is
informing him to love me.
Yeah.
Which means he will be quietwhen it's time to be quiet.
Yeah.
And he will confront whenit's time to confront.
Yeah.
Like that to me, a man that'sconfronting me and saying, Hey,
uh, holy Spirit within me isgrieved by how you're behaving.
Za (22:31):
Yes.
Yes.
Kayley (22:32):
That's love.
Za (22:33):
It is
Kayley (22:34):
because you can't have love without truth.
Yeah.
It's pampering.
And it's perfecting
Za (22:38):
That's right.
Kayley (22:38):
At the same time.
Yeah.
And so for a man to loveme enough to pamper me
and also to perfect me.
Mm. Not out of, not out ofGod's alignment, with God
as his co co collaboratorwith that, that is the most.
Love I could probably feel.
And in, well, atleast on Earth, right?
Yeah.
And then in return,like why would I not
(22:58):
wanna submit to that?
Why would I not want himto be the leader of the
household when he's going Yep.
To the Lord to getall the answers
Za (23:06):
you think about Jesus and all the miracles that
he performed, and himliterally being God in flesh.
Mm-hmm.
Still interceded onour behalf in prayer,
Kayley (23:21):
so good.
Za (23:22):
And going to the father and,
Kayley (23:23):
and he really is the bridegroom.
Za (23:26):
He really, really is.
Kayley (23:27):
Wow, that's so good.
Za (23:28):
And so that image of like, okay, Lord, like no matter
what proverbial miracle, Iwanna work in my house where
my wife doesn't ever haveto lift a finger anymore.
If you will, what youvalue is my intercession.
Mm. What you value ismy ability to cover.
Kayley (23:47):
And she values that too.
Za (23:48):
And she does.
She, she's, and she letsme know, she's like,
Kayley (23:50):
I'm sure she, you prayed for me today.
Yeah.
I'm, if if I knew my manwas praying for me, like
contending on his kneesfor my breakthrough,
Za (23:58):
yeah.
Kayley (23:58):
I would feel so covered.
Za (24:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kayley (24:01):
So loved.
Za (24:02):
I remember, um, before we got married.
Um, having a conversationwith my father-in-law, me and
him are really, really close.
So blessed to have that
Kayley (24:10):
Wow, that's amazing.
Za (24:11):
Yeah, he's like, he genuinely is a second dad.
Love that man to life.
her and him are very, verytight, like best friends.
And I remember talking to himabout, um, what it meant to
basically cover his daughter.
And we were workingthrough that together.
And I told him, I was like,man, I'd be foolish not
(24:31):
to call you and ask youquestions about someone that
you've known her entire life.
Kayley (24:39):
Wow, that's so good, za,
Za (24:40):
you know, so good.
And I'm, I'm getting toknow her as life progresses
and as we live together.
Mm-hmm.
And do all the things,but you know her.
And that is, you know, ofcourse we go through things
as a couple and mm-hmm.
You know, there are things thatstay in our house, but when it's
about her wellbeing and whenit's about making sure that I'm.
(25:01):
Hitting the mark of whatit means to cover her in
a also very practical way.
I ask my father-in-law for help.
Now I'm aware of thefact that that's not
everybody's testimony.
Yeah.
And everybody's notable to do that.
Mm-hmm.
But the heart posture is morewhat I'm addressing right now.
Kayley (25:17):
It's humility.
Za (25:18):
It's humility enough to say, I don't know right now.
Kayley (25:21):
Yeah.
It's so good.
And God favors the humble.
Za (25:24):
He favors the humble and.
Regardless of whether ornot I had a father-in-law
that loved me enough and ispatient with me enough to me
have a conversation with himand there'd be moments where
like, yeah, Za, you probablynot doing right right there.
He doesn't chastiseme with that.
It's not a thing where it'slike a harshness to it.
(25:45):
'cause he understands I'mlearning his daughter too.
Kayley (25:46):
Yeah, right.
Totally.
Za (25:48):
How much more does our Heavenly Father have
grace for us as men?
Learning how tocover his daughter.
How much more if we're,if we, if I never had that
father-in-law, how much morewould my heavenly father want
to stand alongside me andsay, yeah, let me teach you
how to care for my daughter.
Kayley (26:08):
It's just so good.
I love that we'retouching on this.
Me too.
I didn't, me too have nointention of touching on
this, but man, I just feellike there's so many men
that are getting it wrong.
And it's notbecause they're bad.
Za (26:22):
No,
Kayley (26:22):
it's not because they're bad.
They just don't know.
Yeah.
And I mean, when itcomes to loving a woman,
you're gonna be a fool.
Yeah.
You're gonna be the, afool the first time around.
Yeah.
Like, like I was a fool.
I, I, I was a foolin so many ways.
Why would I ever expectto be good at something
for the first time?
Man And, and so it's like.
That's why God favors thehumble, because in our
(26:42):
humility, that's when we hitour knees and we ask for help.
Yeah.
Whether we do it to ourEarthly Fathers or our Heavenly
Father, he's like, thankyou for coming to wisdom.
Hmm.
Because I had a whole vatof it for you and you're
finally asking for it.
Yes.
Here are the keys.
Yeah.
Take it.
Za (27:01):
Take it.
One thing I'll say andthen wherever you wanna
take it, I'm following you.
I had another mentmentor of mine.
He taught me this, andI'll never forget it.
He's like, man, God wantsyou to ask better questions.
Kayley (27:13):
Ugh.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Za (27:15):
He wants you to, I mean, it's like any
other relationship.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like mm-hmm.
If you're not growing inyour level of communication
with the person mm-hmm.
After a certain point, therelationship's is gonna die off.
Mm. Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
So when it comes to that,that question or, or
asking better questions.
(27:36):
As a husband, as a covering.
I don't think God doesn'twant us to ask him, Lord,
how am I supposed tolove your daughter today?
Lord, what is it thatI'm missing that she's
experiencing right now?
Y'all go through something.
That we as men willnever, ever understand.
(27:57):
Yeah.
And y'all go through it.
Well that too.
Yeah.
But there, there areaspects of things that y'all
experience once a month.
Yeah.
That we will never, ever,ever, ever understand.
Yep.
And there's this levelof, okay, Lord, what
does she need right now?
Mm, how can I, how can I bepresent with her right now?
Kayley (28:15):
It's so good.
Za (28:17):
And I'm be, I'm gonna be totally honest for any
man listening to this.
I do not always get it rightand you'll not always get
it right, but that's whereGrace comes into play too.
Kayley (28:29):
Yeah.
And praise God, there's grace.
Yeah.
I mean, that's such a goodpoint to touch on, like
asking the right questions.
Asking better questions.
Yeah.
Asking informed questionsnot only to people that
we're in relationship with.
Yeah.
On Earth, whether it'sfriends, family, or spouse.
I've actually been askingbetter questions with the Lord.
Yeah.
Because there have been timeswhere I'm like, man, I'm not
(28:51):
getting an answer to this prayer
Za (28:53):
man.
Kayley (28:53):
And he's like, well, you're not
praying the right thing.
Za (28:56):
Dude.
Kayley (28:56):
Like you're not actually asking the right thing.
Yeah.
And I'm like, ah.
Za (28:59):
Jesus.
Kayley (28:59):
Okay.
Um, okay, well, whatquestion do I need to ask?
Yeah.
And he'd be like, thisone, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Yes, yes.
Lord, this question.
Yep.
And then all of a sudden,light bulb, light bulb, light
bulb, breakthrough moment,and, um, man, he is so good.
Like we need to be askingmore informed questions.
Like, as I grow in myrelationship with the Lord, I
(29:22):
am growing an understanding ofhis character and of his nature.
Mm. Hmm.
And I am becoming less inbondage, less trapped, less
imprisoned with whateverI'm believing about myself
with, with whatever agreementI've made with the enemy.
Hmm.
I am now adopting whathe says over my life.
And man, let me tellyou, like my questions
(29:42):
with the Holy Spirit havereally been changing.
Yeah.
Because I'm asking him whatI should be asking him.
Za (29:47):
That's right, man.
Kayley (29:49):
Crazy.
Za (29:50):
I think that's great stewardship as well.
That's really good.
Kayley (29:53):
Well, it's like when I want the breakthrough
or when I want the answer,I've gotta go get it.
Yeah.
Somehow.
Yeah.
I've gotta persist.
And man, he honorsthat perseverance too.
He knows that I'mtrying to work it out.
Za (30:02):
That's right.
Kayley (30:03):
And he's so patient, but he also, he, he wants
to see how hungry I am too.
Yeah.
That's right, becauseif I'm hungry mm-hmm.
Oh, I'm going to eat.
Za (30:11):
That's right.
Kayley (30:14):
I'm going to eat.
Yeah.
Well, I think we're, we'recoming to the end of this,
and so I want you to just giveanother encouraging word to
the men out there that aremaybe, maybe they're single
or maybe they're, they're,they're married and they're
like, how can I love thewomen in my life better?
How can I steward myrelationship with them better?
Za (30:35):
Mm-hmm.
Oh Lord.
Um, I say that becausethat also aligns with
where I'm at right now.
That's the, to be candidwith you, that's a question
that I'm currently asking.
Mm. It's like, Lord,how can I do better?
Mm-hmm.
How can I continue to Right.
it comes down to lovingyourself Well, first.
Kayley (30:55):
Okay.
That's good.
Okay.
What does that look like then?
Za (30:58):
Yeah.
I, I, especially as a man,as a man, I'll just kind
of speak on on my end.
So I have this tend tendency tofall into being a workaholic.
Yeah.
In different ways, right?
Kayley (31:10):
Yeah, totally.
Za (31:10):
Again, wanting to to provide, wanting to cover,
wanting, perform things.
Perform.
For sure.
And also too, there'sthis scarcity mindset
attached to it that theLord is redeeming, right?
Yeah.
But that's another conversationRight.
(31:36):
Yeah.
So when it comes to what Ipour into my house, I'm pouring
out from a place of deficit.
Mm. I'm pouring out from aplace of, of being empty.
Right.
And
Kayley (31:46):
that hurts.
Za (31:46):
It hurts.
And my wife feels it.
Oof.
I'll never forget, we, wedo check-ins as a, as a,
um, a couple every now andthen, we'll literally just
be sitting together and, andwe'll ask like, how am I doing?
What, what do you know?
Show me something about myselfthat, that you're needing.
Yeah.
The difference in, or sometimesit'll be us affirming that
we're doing a great job.
It's not always
Kayley (32:06):
That's awesome
Za (32:06):
critiques, right?
That's good.
But I'll never forget,this was about a year ago.
My wife, we, we were talking andshe was like, I just need you to
be more present because you'rehome, but you're not home.
Mm. And I was like,dang, dang, dude.
Yeah.
I'm not.
And here I am today and that'ssomething I'm still working on.
(32:28):
Mm. But it comes with mealso trusting the Lord to
guide me on what it meansto love myself better.
Mm. You know, I, I can't bethe father that I want to be
one day if I'm not, you know,allowing God to work on me and
make sure that I'm full enoughto pour into my children.
Yeah.
So I need it from awisdom standpoint.
(32:48):
Mm-hmm.
I need it from a joy standpoint.
Yep.
I need it from a strengthstandpoint, a peace, you know?
Yeah.
Like literally everything.
All of the fruit of the spirit.
Yep.
that comes with.
You learning how to loveyourself well as a man first.
Mm-hmm.
And allowing God to teach youhow to love yourself well too,
which he also has grace for.
Kayley (33:09):
I think that is so good, Za and it almost kind of
like to, to like sum that up.
Yeah.
It's almost like,am I coachable?
Za (33:17):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Kayley (33:19):
Because loving myself means I stay in
the state of coachability.
Yes.
Because I've gotta becoachable by the people
that love me the most.
Yep.
And by God, yes.
Like sitting and abiding withhim is so that we can get
to know each other so he canpour into me, so then I can
then pour out and it's stayingsubmitted, staying coachable.
(33:41):
That's so good.. ladies,if you're listening and
you want that kind of man.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know necessarily whatthe answer is, but I guess,
you know, love yourself.
Yeah.
Like you just said,love yourself.
Like, are you coachable?
Yeah.
Are you willing to humbleyourself and sit before the Lord
and allow him to do the, thefine detailed work in your life?
Yeah.
(34:01):
Zay, thank you so much.
I feel like this is,this was a really rich.
Moment to have with youand, and I really hope it
blesses everybody out there.
Y'all, if you're listeningalong and it did hit you, it
did strike something in you,please go on biblebish.com
and tell me about it.
Leave me a little testimonyand, um, or comment, you know,
(34:21):
subscribe to all the channels.
Follow me on Instagram.
Za, where can they find you?
Za (34:25):
Yeah, they can find me on Instagram and all the other
platforms at @zasmith.music Zais just ZA and then smith.music
. And you can follow me.
Kayley (34:34):
And He's so good y'all.
He's so good.
He released a song withMaverick City not too long ago.
I did.
And um, man, I've listened toit on repeat, not gonna lie.
Za (34:42):
Oh, thank you.
Kayley (34:42):
I love it so much.
So y'all, thankyou so much again.
This is Kayley Bishop.
Your Bible Bish podcast and Ihope you have an amazing day.
Me and Za are here doingthis in the name of love,
because we love you.
We want you to walk in freedom,so go walk in peace and freedom
and have a wonderful one.
Bye y'all.
Za (35:00):
Bye.
success is traumatic
Kayley (00:01):
man, I'm not getting an answer to this prayer
And he's like, well, you'renot praying the right thing,
Za (00:05):
there's goodness attached to your discomfort,
Kayley (00:07):
as soon as I took care of the self-loathing
within hours I made somuch money that night.
Well, hello there everybody.
My name is Kayley Bishopand welcome to the Bible
Bish Podcast, where Ihope you came for the tea.
(00:30):
That you're gonna stayfor the truth, and then
possibly my prayer is thatyou would leave changed.
And I'm so excited becausethe person that I've got on
the podcast as my guest todayis a dear friend of mine.
He's a spirit filledman, a beautiful singer
and songwriter in town.
This is my dear friend Za Smith.
Za (00:49):
What is first, let me just say, that's a heck of an intro.
That's a really cool intro.
Intro.
Kayley (00:54):
Did you like that?
Za (00:55):
I did, I did.
Kayley (00:56):
See, here's the thing, you just can't worry, right?
You can't worry about anything.
A friend of mine has a90, I think she's like 94
years old, or 84 years old.
Mm-hmm.
And she was like, uh, grandma,what's the secret to long life?
And she was like, honey, youcannot worry about anything man.
And it's so biblical.
Za (01:14):
It really is.
And I think what's so coolabout that too is like for
people that are in that stageof life, they've understood
there's an art to that.
As well.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like there's, it's somethingthat you have to practice.
Kayley (01:29):
Oh, 100%.
Za (01:30):
And it's very, very difficult.
Of course.
Otherwise, Godwouldn't tell us to.
Kayley (01:36):
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think he knewthat we were gonna be so
terrified all the time.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's why he says do notfear 365 times in the Bible.
Za (01:46):
That's right, one for each day.
Kayley (01:47):
One for each day.
I mean, like he knew whatwe were gonna struggle with.
Yeah.
And it really is a practiceof taking every cap thought,
every thought captive, andmaking it obedient to Christ.
It's like anytime I start toget worried, he's like, stop
putting on that yoke of fear.
I didn't give that to you.
Take it off.
Yeah.
Why don't you justget yoked to me.
We're gonna walk and we'regonna laugh and we're
(02:08):
gonna take a slow pace.
You, you're not gonna sweat.
Za (02:12):
Geez.
Geez, dude.
I mean, that's literallyright on on point timing
wise as well because
Kayley (02:18):
tell me where you're at right now.
Za (02:19):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I would say where I'm atright now, I'm learning a
new level of letting go.
Okay.
Best way I can say that,this has been a very fast
moving six months, I'd say.
Things have been like reallymoving fast and it's been
a really blessed time.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, all at the same time, Ionce heard someone say that,
(02:42):
um, success is traumatic.
Kayley (02:45):
Ooh.
Yeah.
Okay.
Unpack that for me.
Za (02:48):
So just like anything else in life.
And that's not me also sayinglike, I'm super successful right
now, you know, but with, withanswered prayers coming to pass.
Okay.
And with, more of thethings that I've been
hoping for actually becominga part of my reality.
Right?
Yeah.
that thought of successbeing traumatic, when you
(03:08):
think about trauma, trauma.
Is attached to triggers, right?
Yep.
But you don't know whatthose triggers are until
you're in a situationwhere you're triggered.
Kayley (03:18):
Triggered, right?
Yeah.
Za (03:18):
And then from there, you're learning and becoming more
and more aware, and you're,you're getting to the root
of what those things are.
You're getting to a placeof understanding what to
do when you are triggeredand how to properly process
those things, right?
So for me.
I'm in a spot where a lotof things are coming to
pass all glory to God.
I'm thankful for it.
Kayley (03:38):
Yeah, totally.
Za (03:39):
But there's the backside to the blessing.
Yeah.
The burden side of it being,oh, I didn't know that I
would feel this way attachedto this thing happening.
Oof.
I didn't know thatwhen I experienced.
This answered prayer over here.
Just keeping it kind of vagueas as of right now, but when
I experienced this answeredprayer over here that you would
(04:01):
show me the 7-year-old in methat is attached to really
what you're doing through thatthing, it's not even really
about that thing happening.
Mm-hmm.
Because obviously there'salways, we've talked
about this a bunch.
Yeah.
There's this, this walkbetween doing and being
Kayley (04:17):
Yes.
Right.
Doing and being,
Za (04:18):
doing and being.
And so he's like, okay, cool.
I'm gonna allow your doing toexpose another side of being
that I want you to grow in.
Mm-hmm.
And so all of that comes withletting go of expectations
of what it's supposed to looklike when you're going through.
Answer prayers.
Kayley (04:37):
Oh, that's so good.
Yeah.
You know, I have beensaying this for a while.
God has healed me in layers.
Mm. And the thing is, as longas I'm walking around on this
earth, I'm gonna encounter pain.
Yeah.
Just because we're born into sinand we live in a fallen world.
Yeah.
We're, we all fall shortof the glory of God.
And so you're gonna encounterpeople that don't know him
that are gonna be cruel.
(04:57):
Yeah.
And there are gonna betimes that my flesh rises
up and is cruel, you know?
And yeah, hopefully notbecause I just love Jesus
too much to do that.
But, but like in his mercy, Godhas healed me layer by layer.
I think if he revealed allthe truths about me, like
spirit, body, and soul.
I would just fall apart and die.
(05:18):
Yeah.
Like he's like, you can't handleall that information at once.
Like, I gotta gently justpeel back layer by layer.
Yes.
And he's so good.
Za (05:26):
That is, that's so on point, because also too is
there's, there's a pace.
To your healing.
Kayley (05:33):
Yeah.
You know, can't rush it.
Za (05:34):
You just you , can't rush it.
Kayley (05:36):
He rushes it sometimes.
Yeah.
He can expedite it.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember when hesaid, I'm gonna redeem the
years of Locust have eaten.
Za (05:42):
That's right.
Kayley (05:42):
And he sure did.
Yeah.
But that's on his timing.
Za (05:45):
That's that's on his.
And also too, when he does speedup the process or put us in a
spot where we're uncomfortableand it's like, Lord, why
are things moving so fast?
Why are you allowing this?
Uh, why are you allowingme to feel this over
and over and over again?
Why are these triggers comingover and over and over again?
Kayley (06:02):
Yeah.
Za (06:02):
Oftentimes he's like, it's because I need you to be here.
In who you are ata certain point.
Mm. With what I wantto do through you.
Yeah.
Like I need, you know,you think about the, the
children of Israel, right?
Mm-hmm.
That, you know, their exodusout of Egypt was really supposed
to be an 11 day journey.
And this is also somethingrelative to where I'm
(06:22):
supposed, supposed to be at.
Kayley (06:23):
This is nuts.
Za (06:24):
Oh lord.
Uh, so, but it was supposed tobe an 11 day journey, right?
And wilderness seasons aresupposed to represent God
stripping you of things thatcan't go into the next season.
Kayley (06:36):
Yeah.
Za (06:37):
And adding to you the things that you need in order to
Kayley (06:40):
come on
Za (06:40):
fully be everything he wants you to be in the next season.
Right?
Yep.
obviously for them.
It ended up being muchlonger than 11 days.
Yeah, 40 years.
Longer than 11 days.
Kayley (06:50):
They were kicking and screaming.
Za (06:51):
Kicking and screaming the whole time.
Kayley (06:52):
The whole time,
Za (06:53):
right.
Something I've been sitting inbetween me and God relative to
that where there's transitionin my life is, I think I've
expected for the 11 days to feela lot shorter than they actually
are, and he's like, yeah, no,it's not that you're off pace.
It's not that you're ina season where, I'm, I'm
(07:14):
forcing you to repeat thislesson or X, y, Z because
you're not hitting the mark.
It's because you'rein your 11 days.
Mm. And you have to be okaywith being in your 11 days.
Now, if you aren't leaningin and allowing me to do
what I wanna do in those11 days, that's when
it turns to 40 years.
Kayley (07:32):
Mm. Okay.
Za (07:33):
But if you allow me.
To do everything that I'mwanting to do in this.
And, and you recognize thefact that there's goodness
attached to your discomfort,and that's the perspective
that you're trying to sit in.
That's where I can strip youthe things that you can't take.
Kayley (07:51):
Yeah.
Za (07:51):
And that's where can add the things that you need.
Because also too, youthink about the, the nation
of Israel after they gotout of the wilderness.
They were conquerors.
Mm-hmm.
They were to go in to Canaan.
Kayley (08:05):
Yeah.
Conquer.
Za (08:06):
Conquer.
You know?
Um, and so there's differentareas of my life right now.
Really long-winded answerto your question, but
that's how we talk anyway.
Kayley (08:16):
Yeah, that's true.
Za (08:16):
Um, but yeah, there are, there are different things in
my life right now where Godis allowing answered prayers
to reveal to me more and more.
Where I'm in my 11 days.
Kayley (08:30):
That's so good.
I mean, you sort of to touchedon something where it's, it's
like you're not in your 11 days'cause you did something wrong.
Yeah.
That is such a habit of mine.
Like I have shamed myselfso much like, and it's
something that God reallywanted to work on me.
Like he actually healedme a couple weeks ago.
He's like, you've beenwalking around with
so much self-loathing.
Yeah.
Like as soon as somethingdoesn't go right, you shame
(08:52):
yourself as if you did somethingwrong and you hate yourself.
And he's like, you are actually,because you're partnering
with the enemy's lies.
Yeah.
You're making anagreement with the enemy.
Yep.
On that.
It's, it's affectinghow I Bless you.
Za (09:07):
Geez,
Kayley (09:08):
it's affecting your finances.
Yeah.
And it was, I mean, I wasin a financial drought
and I was like, yeah,meanwhile I'm not worrying.
Right.
'cause I've just learned itdoesn't make sense to worry
when God's always got my back.
Za (09:18):
Yep.
Kayley (09:19):
But like I'm still now, now questioning like,
Lord, what's going on?
Za (09:22):
Yeah.
Kayley (09:22):
Like I'm not making money like I normally would.
Za (09:24):
Right.
Kayley (09:25):
What is happening?
And he's like, we gotta takecare of your self-loathing.
And as soon as I tookcare of the self-loathing
within hours I made.
I made so much money that night.
Wow.
That very night.
Wow, man.
And then in the middle ofthe night, I had all, all
these prophetic dreams.
He's waking me up.
I get up at four in the morningto write down my dreams and
I check my phone and I havethis invitation to go to Japan
(09:47):
for two months to play music.
Za (09:49):
Geez.
Man
Kayley (09:50):
to basically cover all my bills for the
summer and, and I'm justlike, this is nuts, Lord.
Like yeah.
We do not fight againstflesh and blood, but the
principalities and theauthorities of the unseen realm.
That's right.
And so it's like when youare making these agreements
of, I suck, like it's all,my fault, da da, the enemy
wants you to agree with thatbecause then he can, he can
(10:12):
be a buffer or a stumblingblock to how God blesses you.
Za (10:16):
So accurate.
It also speaks to how muchGod knows us as his children.
Kayley (10:20):
Yeah.
Za (10:20):
Like we've talked about siblings and things like that.
Yes.
And I know for me, eventhough we all come from, from
the same family, you know.
We're wired differentin different ways.
Kayley (10:31):
Yes.
Za (10:32):
And just like any other good parents, it's like, okay,
I, I know how to get throughto this child and I know how
to get through to this child.
Kayley (10:38):
Sure.
Za (10:39):
And it's not the same thing.
No, but.
The lesson that I'm wantingto teach is the same thing,
and I just, I'd love howfor you, that lesson of
self-loathing that he wantedto walk you through mm-hmm.
Was attached to the practical,Lord, I need money right now.
I know.
Why am I not experiencing that?
Kayley (10:57):
I would never, never have known that.
I would never put that together.
Za (10:59):
Yep.
So good.
It's so good.
Kayley (11:02):
Okay.
But now you're touchingon something else.
Yeah.
And you're touching on thereason I wanted to bring you
on the, on the podcast, becauseI, I want you to talk about as
how, as a man you relate to God.
Like how does He disciple you?
Like even within acommunity of men?
Yes.
How do you hear him when you'restrong, does that affect how
emotional you can be with God?
(11:23):
Yeah.
Because I feel like menhave a hard time with Yeah.
Being emotional orexpressing emotion.
So I just gave youa, a huge buffet
Za (11:30):
That's okay.
Kayley (11:30):
Of things to talk about.
So lay it on me.
Za (11:33):
Oof.
Where do you
Kayley (11:34):
start wherever you wanna start.
Za (11:36):
Well, um, first I'll just start talking about me and
then I'll relate it to whatI think most men experience,
if not all for me, I comefrom a family with a really,
really, really loving dad.
Mm, incredibly lovingfather did everything that
he could to be present.
The type of home that I grew upin was very different than the
(11:58):
type of home that he grew up in.
Kayley (12:00):
Okay.
Za (12:00):
And so his image of a father, um.
And the type of fatherthat he actually was
two different things.
Mm. And so I know for meright now, I've been talking
through different thingswith, with different mentors
and also with my dad as well.
Like, man, where does thisneed to perform come into
play when it comes to myrelationship with God?
(12:22):
Because the, I didn't feel thatin my relationship with you.
I didn't feel like Ihad to earn your love
or earn your blessings.
Kayley (12:29):
So good.
Za (12:29):
Right.
That's not what Iexperienced with my
relationship with my own dad.
So, with my Heavenly Father,I'm, I'm trying to unpack it.
At the same time, I do havevery vivid memories of like,
like I'll just take, when Iused to play football, right?
I'm kid playing football,running the ball, and there's
(12:50):
an image of me consistentlylooking over to my right
as I'm, I'm bending thecorner to try to make it
up field, and I'm lookingfor my dad in the stands.
While I'm mid play,I'm running the ball.
I got defenders running at mewhole nine, and I'm looking
up and I'm, I'm trying to seeif he's, he's watching right?
And he's in the stand andhe's like, look forward.
(13:13):
He could see me looking overat him, you know what I mean?
He's like, look ahead, you know,
Kayley (13:16):
you're so sweet.
Za (13:17):
But he, he would run with me down the sideline.
Anytime I got the rock oranytime I got, you know, a,
a big tackle or whatever,he was right there.
Right.
Kayley (13:27):
That's gonna make me cry.
That's such a beautifuldepiction of fatherhood.
Za (13:30):
Yeah, it is.
Ah, so for me now, as a husband,and as someone who, who desires
to be a father one day, it'slike, Lord, where does the need?
to perform or earn your love?
Where?
Where does inadequacy, when itcomes to my relationship with
you, where does that come from?
Kayley (13:49):
Yeah,
Za (13:49):
right, and to be honest with you, I don't feel like I
fully have an answer yet, butI do know that God being the
loving father, that he is thesame way my dad knew exactly.
The pace that I needed.
And obviously my dad wasn'tperfect or anything like that.
Mm-hmm.
But he knew therewas a certain pace of
affirmation that I neededto say, Hey man, that was great.
(14:14):
Now look ahead.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like things like that.
I, , I feel like theheavenly father that we
serve is the exact sameway with us as men now.
I think also too, our viewof God as men is very much
tainted by what culture'sunderstanding of what a man is.
Kayley (14:34):
Do you feel like that's shifted a lot as of late too?
Like following theMe Too movement?
Unpack what you mean bythat because I'm curious.
Za (14:41):
Yeah.
So I, I was thinking aboutwhat it means to be a covering.
Kayley (14:45):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Za (14:47):
Obviously in being a follower of Christ, our goal
is to try to be a reflectionof him in every way possible.
Kayley (14:54):
Sure.
Right.
Za (14:56):
So I think about some of the pressures that I
feel as a husband to try tocover my family financially.
Mm-hmm.
All very practicalthings as well, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Financially, I wannabe a great protector.
You not just rollingup in my house, bro.
I'm, you know, that you notjust, you can't get to my, yeah.
But yeah, you got in a lot ofways, very practical things,
(15:18):
but I think sometimes the, theenemy will distort that and
make us think that that's whatGod is expecting of us, to
qualify us as a, as a covering.
I'm gonna unpack it a bit more.
Okay.
Again, there'spracticality to it.
Kayley (15:32):
Yeah.
Of course.
Za (15:36):
There isn't a place in the Bible that you will find.
Where Jesus says, in orderto be a proper covering,
you have to be thebreadwinner of your house.
You don't see that in the Bible.
Kayley (15:47):
Man.
I think men need tohear that right now.
It's Well 'cause it'sso inherent to, to men
to want to provide.
Right.
Because it also says inscripture, a man that doesn't
provide for his family, isworse than an unbeliever.
Za (15:58):
That's right.
Kayley (15:58):
But that's interesting that you would say that.
Za (16:00):
So then comes to the question of what
does it mean to provide.
Kayley (16:04):
Oh, snap, Za, okay, let's go there.
Yeah.
Tell me what doesit mean to provide
Za (16:09):
Well, I,
Kayley (16:09):
this is good.
Za (16:10):
It's, it's, man, so I'll just a little bit of
context with me and my wife.
So we come from two differenthomes, two different
backgrounds in a lot of ways.
And so, um, when we firstgot together, and even still
now, we've been together sixyears this year and married
four, this is amazing.
There's still this unpackingof, Family of origin things.
Kayley (16:31):
Mm. Right.
Mm-hmm.
Za (16:32):
And I'll never forget this, there was a time when we
first got together, woo Lord.
There was a time when wefirst got together and, um,
we were in a disagreementand I remember yelling out,
I'm not a inappropriate word.
Right.
And I, and, and really,I didn't realize that
(16:53):
at the time, but I was.
Really saying it to myself.
Mm. And she said it in sucha, a, a loving and sweet way.
She was like, I never, I'venever once thought that,
never once thought that
Kayley (17:05):
she is so sweet.
Za (17:06):
She's the best.
Kayley (17:06):
She's just so peaceful and loving.
Za (17:08):
Yes.
But what she said to followgave me a new understanding
of what it meant to provide.
So she said, your abilityto be weak with me is
why I see you as strong.
I'm the person thatyou're supposed to be
able to be weak with.
Kayley (17:25):
Yeah.
That's,
Za (17:25):
I'm the person that you're supposed to be able
to unpack what you're feelingemotionally or the the pressures
of life that you're right.
Yeah.
Honestly, even in anotherpractical way, there are
things that God literallycouldn't bless me with
until I had someone to helpme carry the burden of it.
Kayley (17:44):
Wow.
Yeah.
Za (17:46):
You know?
Kayley (17:47):
Yes.
Za (17:47):
And so her, so expectation of me as a husband, of course
she expects me to go outthere and, and work and make
sure that I'm bringing moneyto the Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.
You know what I mean?
And the goal is for me to bea breadwinner in my house.
Mm-hmm.
Not from the place anymore,of it being I have to because
my manhood is attached to it.
(18:09):
Mm. Now it's, I want to givemy life my wife the most.
Easy life that I canbecause I love her.
Yeah.
Purely from a place of love.
It's not an expectationthat she's put on me.
Mm. It's not a thing that'slike, oh yeah, you know, you're
inadequate as a man if you'renot doing this thing for her.
(18:29):
Of course, she does value megoing out and getting it and
doing all the things, butshe values me being present.
She values me being ahusband that will cover
his home in prayer.
She values me being, come on,sensitive to the things that
she's going to going through.
Yeah.
Like that's another man.
(18:50):
I used to feel like I hadto solve every one of her
problems, when really shejust wanted me to be present.
Mm. And also too, I heardthis from the Lord as well,
even though I'm her covering.
She's still his daughter andthere are things that, that
he's going to take her throughthat I really won't know about
(19:10):
until the other side of it.
Kayley (19:11):
Wow.
Yeah.
Za (19:12):
You know, like there's, there are things within
her, there's aspects ofwho she is that she's
unaware of at this point.
Talking about that pace ofhealing, talking about that
pace of, now I'm showing youanother side of who you are,
there are things that I, Icouldn't fix if I wanted to.
So my responsibility as herhusband, as her covering
(19:34):
is to pray for her.
Kayley (19:35):
Do you think, well, I guess, have you ever
fallen in this confusionof, okay, I am her covering.
Mm-hmm.
But while simultaneouslytrying to be her, God?
Za (19:46):
Yes.
Kayley (19:47):
Okay.
Like solving all the issues?
Za (19:48):
Yes.
Kayley (19:49):
Do you feel like you see that with a lot of men?
Za (19:51):
A thousand percent.
Kayley (19:51):
Okay.
So what would you.
Say to those guys Andwhat did, how did you kind
of break through that?
Za (19:57):
Well, I think it starts with your own submission.
Kayley (19:59):
Okay.
Za (20:00):
I think you being in a place where the Holy Spirit reveals to
you where you're wrong or whereyou're out of place mm-hmm.
Is important, first andforemost, because for me, as,
as a husband, the, the, the bestthing that I can do, and that's
not to say, again, I keep goingback to this practicality of.
The needs of life, right?
Mm-hmm.
Those exist as well,
Kayley (20:21):
right of course.
Za (20:22):
But for everything that I don't know, for every experience
that my wife has, that I don'tknow or, or every trigger
that she has, that she justtries her best to wear well.
Mm-hmm.
The Holy Spirit does know.
And so for me, the firstthing that I can do is
to submit unto the Lord.
Allow the Holy Spirit toguide me with discernment
(20:43):
to guide me with.
There's been plenty oftimes where he is told
me, shut your mouth.
This is not theright time to talk.
I'm so, you know, don't,this is not the time to talk.
Wow.
This is the time to listen.
Mm. Or Yeah, she ain'tgonna like this, but I want
you to say it right now.
Ugh.
So.
But that all comesfrom the Holy Spirit.
(21:05):
The call is for wives tosubmit unto their husband
as he submits unto the Lord.
Kayley (21:11):
Yes.
Za (21:12):
So it starts with you being in a place of submission.
Mm-hmm.
Where you're able to hearfrom the Holy Spirit where
you are out of place.
Mm-hmm.
Because again, as loving ofa husband, as I aim to be,
I couldn't fix all of herproblems if I wanted to,
and I may do more harm bytrying to do it off of my
own strength, which islike any, anything else in
(21:33):
life where when you do itoff of your own strength,
it's gonna always fail.
Kayley (21:37):
Yeah.
Za (21:38):
So being in a place of sensitivity to the Holy
Spirit and how he wantsyou to cover his daughter.
Kayley (21:46):
That's so good.
And I think it's In Ephesianswhere it's like, husbands, sub
husbands love your wives, loveyour wives, love your wives.
Wives submit to your husbands.
And I always go back to like,the husband loves your wive part
because it says it three times.
Yeah.
And I'm like, it would be easyto submit to a man that loved me
three times as much as God said.
Yeah.
It's like, because what does itlook like for a man to love me?
Za (22:08):
Yeah.
Kayley (22:08):
I mean, the man that I want Yeah.
Is gonna love me with analignment with Holy Spirit.
Za (22:15):
That's right.
Kayley (22:15):
He's gonna love me the way Holy Spirit is
informing him to love me.
Yeah.
Which means he will be quietwhen it's time to be quiet.
Yeah.
And he will confront whenit's time to confront.
Yeah.
Like that to me, a man that'sconfronting me and saying, Hey,
uh, holy Spirit within me isgrieved by how you're behaving.
Za (22:31):
Yes.
Yes.
Kayley (22:32):
That's love.
Za (22:33):
It is
Kayley (22:34):
because you can't have love without truth.
Yeah.
It's pampering.
And it's perfecting
Za (22:38):
That's right.
Kayley (22:38):
At the same time.
Yeah.
And so for a man to loveme enough to pamper me
and also to perfect me.
Mm. Not out of, not out ofGod's alignment, with God
as his co co collaboratorwith that, that is the most.
Love I could probably feel.
And in, well, atleast on Earth, right?
Yeah.
And then in return,like why would I not
(22:58):
wanna submit to that?
Why would I not want himto be the leader of the
household when he's going Yep.
To the Lord to getall the answers
Za (23:06):
you think about Jesus and all the miracles that
he performed, and himliterally being God in flesh.
Mm-hmm.
Still interceded onour behalf in prayer,
Kayley (23:21):
so good.
Za (23:22):
And going to the father and,
Kayley (23:23):
and he really is the bridegroom.
Za (23:26):
He really, really is.
Kayley (23:27):
Wow, that's so good.
Za (23:28):
And so that image of like, okay, Lord, like no matter
what proverbial miracle, Iwanna work in my house where
my wife doesn't ever haveto lift a finger anymore.
If you will, what youvalue is my intercession.
Mm. What you value ismy ability to cover.
Kayley (23:47):
And she values that too.
Za (23:48):
And she does.
She, she's, and she letsme know, she's like,
Kayley (23:50):
I'm sure she, you prayed for me today.
Yeah.
I'm, if if I knew my manwas praying for me, like
contending on his kneesfor my breakthrough,
Za (23:58):
yeah.
Kayley (23:58):
I would feel so covered.
Za (24:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kayley (24:01):
So loved.
Za (24:02):
I remember, um, before we got married.
Um, having a conversationwith my father-in-law, me and
him are really, really close.
So blessed to have that
Kayley (24:10):
Wow, that's amazing.
Za (24:11):
Yeah, he's like, he genuinely is a second dad.
Love that man to life.
her and him are very, verytight, like best friends.
And I remember talking to himabout, um, what it meant to
basically cover his daughter.
And we were workingthrough that together.
And I told him, I was like,man, I'd be foolish not
(24:31):
to call you and ask youquestions about someone that
you've known her entire life.
Kayley (24:39):
Wow, that's so good, za,
Za (24:40):
you know, so good.
And I'm, I'm getting toknow her as life progresses
and as we live together.
Mm-hmm.
And do all the things,but you know her.
And that is, you know, ofcourse we go through things
as a couple and mm-hmm.
You know, there are things thatstay in our house, but when it's
about her wellbeing and whenit's about making sure that I'm.
(25:01):
Hitting the mark of whatit means to cover her in
a also very practical way.
I ask my father-in-law for help.
Now I'm aware of thefact that that's not
everybody's testimony.
Yeah.
And everybody's notable to do that.
Mm-hmm.
But the heart posture is morewhat I'm addressing right now.
Kayley (25:17):
It's humility.
Za (25:18):
It's humility enough to say, I don't know right now.
Kayley (25:21):
Yeah.
It's so good.
And God favors the humble.
Za (25:24):
He favors the humble and.
Regardless of whether ornot I had a father-in-law
that loved me enough and ispatient with me enough to me
have a conversation with himand there'd be moments where
like, yeah, Za, you probablynot doing right right there.
He doesn't chastiseme with that.
It's not a thing where it'slike a harshness to it.
(25:45):
'cause he understands I'mlearning his daughter too.
Kayley (25:46):
Yeah, right.
Totally.
Za (25:48):
How much more does our Heavenly Father have
grace for us as men?
Learning how tocover his daughter.
How much more if we're,if we, if I never had that
father-in-law, how much morewould my heavenly father want
to stand alongside me andsay, yeah, let me teach you
how to care for my daughter.
Kayley (26:08):
It's just so good.
I love that we'retouching on this.
Me too.
I didn't, me too have nointention of touching on
this, but man, I just feellike there's so many men
that are getting it wrong.
And it's notbecause they're bad.
Za (26:22):
No,
Kayley (26:22):
it's not because they're bad.
They just don't know.
Yeah.
And I mean, when itcomes to loving a woman,
you're gonna be a fool.
Yeah.
You're gonna be the, afool the first time around.
Yeah.
Like, like I was a fool.
I, I, I was a foolin so many ways.
Why would I ever expectto be good at something
for the first time?
Man And, and so it's like.
That's why God favors thehumble, because in our
(26:42):
humility, that's when we hitour knees and we ask for help.
Yeah.
Whether we do it to ourEarthly Fathers or our Heavenly
Father, he's like, thankyou for coming to wisdom.
Hmm.
Because I had a whole vatof it for you and you're
finally asking for it.
Yes.
Here are the keys.
Yeah.
Take it.
Za (27:01):
Take it.
One thing I'll say andthen wherever you wanna
take it, I'm following you.
I had another mentmentor of mine.
He taught me this, andI'll never forget it.
He's like, man, God wantsyou to ask better questions.
Kayley (27:13):
Ugh.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Za (27:15):
He wants you to, I mean, it's like any
other relationship.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like mm-hmm.
If you're not growing inyour level of communication
with the person mm-hmm.
After a certain point, therelationship's is gonna die off.
Mm. Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
So when it comes to that,that question or, or
asking better questions.
(27:36):
As a husband, as a covering.
I don't think God doesn'twant us to ask him, Lord,
how am I supposed tolove your daughter today?
Lord, what is it thatI'm missing that she's
experiencing right now?
Y'all go through something.
That we as men willnever, ever understand.
(27:57):
Yeah.
And y'all go through it.
Well that too.
Yeah.
But there, there areaspects of things that y'all
experience once a month.
Yeah.
That we will never, ever,ever, ever understand.
Yep.
And there's this levelof, okay, Lord, what
does she need right now?
Mm, how can I, how can I bepresent with her right now?
Kayley (28:15):
It's so good.
Za (28:17):
And I'm be, I'm gonna be totally honest for any
man listening to this.
I do not always get it rightand you'll not always get
it right, but that's whereGrace comes into play too.
Kayley (28:29):
Yeah.
And praise God, there's grace.
Yeah.
I mean, that's such a goodpoint to touch on, like
asking the right questions.
Asking better questions.
Yeah.
Asking informed questionsnot only to people that
we're in relationship with.
Yeah.
On Earth, whether it'sfriends, family, or spouse.
I've actually been askingbetter questions with the Lord.
Yeah.
Because there have been timeswhere I'm like, man, I'm not
(28:51):
getting an answer to this prayer
Za (28:53):
man.
Kayley (28:53):
And he's like, well, you're not
praying the right thing.
Za (28:56):
Dude.
Kayley (28:56):
Like you're not actually asking the right thing.
Yeah.
And I'm like, ah.
Za (28:59):
Jesus.
Kayley (28:59):
Okay.
Um, okay, well, whatquestion do I need to ask?
Yeah.
And he'd be like, thisone, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Yes, yes.
Lord, this question.
Yep.
And then all of a sudden,light bulb, light bulb, light
bulb, breakthrough moment,and, um, man, he is so good.
Like we need to be askingmore informed questions.
Like, as I grow in myrelationship with the Lord, I
(29:22):
am growing an understanding ofhis character and of his nature.
Mm. Hmm.
And I am becoming less inbondage, less trapped, less
imprisoned with whateverI'm believing about myself
with, with whatever agreementI've made with the enemy.
Hmm.
I am now adopting whathe says over my life.
And man, let me tellyou, like my questions
(29:42):
with the Holy Spirit havereally been changing.
Yeah.
Because I'm asking him whatI should be asking him.
Za (29:47):
That's right, man.
Kayley (29:49):
Crazy.
Za (29:50):
I think that's great stewardship as well.
That's really good.
Kayley (29:53):
Well, it's like when I want the breakthrough
or when I want the answer,I've gotta go get it.
Yeah.
Somehow.
Yeah.
I've gotta persist.
And man, he honorsthat perseverance too.
He knows that I'mtrying to work it out.
Za (30:02):
That's right.
Kayley (30:03):
And he's so patient, but he also, he, he wants
to see how hungry I am too.
Yeah.
That's right, becauseif I'm hungry mm-hmm.
Oh, I'm going to eat.
Za (30:11):
That's right.
Kayley (30:14):
I'm going to eat.
Yeah.
Well, I think we're, we'recoming to the end of this,
and so I want you to just giveanother encouraging word to
the men out there that aremaybe, maybe they're single
or maybe they're, they're,they're married and they're
like, how can I love thewomen in my life better?
How can I steward myrelationship with them better?
Za (30:35):
Mm-hmm.
Oh Lord.
Um, I say that becausethat also aligns with
where I'm at right now.
That's the, to be candidwith you, that's a question
that I'm currently asking.
Mm. It's like, Lord,how can I do better?
Mm-hmm.
How can I continue to Right.
it comes down to lovingyourself Well, first.
Kayley (30:55):
Okay.
That's good.
Okay.
What does that look like then?
Za (30:58):
Yeah.
I, I, especially as a man,as a man, I'll just kind
of speak on on my end.
So I have this tend tendency tofall into being a workaholic.
Yeah.
In different ways, right?
Kayley (31:10):
Yeah, totally.
Za (31:10):
Again, wanting to to provide, wanting to cover,
wanting, perform things.
Perform.
For sure.
And also too, there'sthis scarcity mindset
attached to it that theLord is redeeming, right?
Yeah.
But that's another conversationRight.
(31:36):
Yeah.
So when it comes to what Ipour into my house, I'm pouring
out from a place of deficit.
Mm. I'm pouring out from aplace of, of being empty.
Right.
And
Kayley (31:46):
that hurts.
Za (31:46):
It hurts.
And my wife feels it.
Oof.
I'll never forget, we, wedo check-ins as a, as a,
um, a couple every now andthen, we'll literally just
be sitting together and, andwe'll ask like, how am I doing?
What, what do you know?
Show me something about myselfthat, that you're needing.
Yeah.
The difference in, or sometimesit'll be us affirming that
we're doing a great job.
It's not always
Kayley (32:06):
That's awesome
Za (32:06):
critiques, right?
That's good.
But I'll never forget,this was about a year ago.
My wife, we, we were talking andshe was like, I just need you to
be more present because you'rehome, but you're not home.
Mm. And I was like,dang, dang, dude.
Yeah.
I'm not.
And here I am today and that'ssomething I'm still working on.
(32:28):
Mm. But it comes with mealso trusting the Lord to
guide me on what it meansto love myself better.
Mm. You know, I, I can't bethe father that I want to be
one day if I'm not, you know,allowing God to work on me and
make sure that I'm full enoughto pour into my children.
Yeah.
So I need it from awisdom standpoint.
(32:48):
Mm-hmm.
I need it from a joy standpoint.
Yep.
I need it from a strengthstandpoint, a peace, you know?
Yeah.
Like literally everything.
All of the fruit of the spirit.
Yep.
that comes with.
You learning how to loveyourself well as a man first.
Mm-hmm.
And allowing God to teach youhow to love yourself well too,
which he also has grace for.
Kayley (33:09):
I think that is so good, Za and it almost kind of
like to, to like sum that up.
Yeah.
It's almost like,am I coachable?
Za (33:17):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Kayley (33:19):
Because loving myself means I stay in
the state of coachability.
Yes.
Because I've gotta becoachable by the people
that love me the most.
Yep.
And by God, yes.
Like sitting and abiding withhim is so that we can get
to know each other so he canpour into me, so then I can
then pour out and it's stayingsubmitted, staying coachable.
(33:41):
That's so good.. ladies,if you're listening and
you want that kind of man.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know necessarily whatthe answer is, but I guess,
you know, love yourself.
Yeah.
Like you just said,love yourself.
Like, are you coachable?
Yeah.
Are you willing to humbleyourself and sit before the Lord
and allow him to do the, thefine detailed work in your life?
Yeah.
(34:01):
Zay, thank you so much.
I feel like this is,this was a really rich.
Moment to have with youand, and I really hope it
blesses everybody out there.
Y'all, if you're listeningalong and it did hit you, it
did strike something in you,please go on biblebish.com
and tell me about it.
Leave me a little testimonyand, um, or comment, you know,
(34:21):
subscribe to all the channels.
Follow me on Instagram.
Za, where can they find you?
Za (34:25):
Yeah, they can find me on Instagram and all the other
platforms at @zasmith.music Zais just ZA and then smith.music
. And you can follow me.
Kayley (34:34):
And He's so good y'all.
He's so good.
He released a song withMaverick City not too long ago.
I did.
And um, man, I've listened toit on repeat, not gonna lie.
Za (34:42):
Oh, thank you.
Kayley (34:42):
I love it so much.
So y'all, thankyou so much again.
This is Kayley Bishop.
Your Bible Bish podcast and Ihope you have an amazing day.
Me and Za are here doingthis in the name of love,
because we love you.
We want you to walk in freedom,so go walk in peace and freedom
and have a wonderful one.
Bye y'all.
Za (35:00):
Bye.
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