How Do I Know God's Will For My Life? | Guest: Pastor Rick Sowell - Bible Bish

Episode Transcript
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Rick (00:00):
I'd go home and lay in my bed and over and
over again, this thoughtwould go through my mind.
You're wasting your life.
Wow.

Kayley (00:05):
When you don't have peace,
everything aches

Rick (00:08):
God's done way more with my life than I ever dreamed
he could.. It took two things.
Consent.
Okay, God, I want what you want.
Mm,, Cooperation.
I'm willing to do whatmy consent leans toward.
Without those two things,we're not gonna get there.

Kayley (00:20):
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to Bible Bish.
My name is Kayley Bishop.
I'm the host of Bible Bish,and today we're gonna talk
about discerning God's willbecause if you're like me,
you've struggled to figure outwhat that is for your life.
And I have brought one of myfavorite people, actually ever,
his name is Rick, and he is apastor in Choctaw, Oklahoma.

(00:43):
Mm-hmm.
And he's kind of like.
I don't know if I've told youthis before, but you're like
a spiritual father to me.
Have I told you that?

Rick (00:49):
Well, I appreciate that.
I appreciate that.

Kayley (00:51):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, he's a spiritualfather to a lot of people.
He's got a lot of younginsthat probably claim him, and
I just am so blessed to, tohave parental figures all over
the country that I get to callon and that will pray for me.
And so I was so happy thathe was coming to Nashville
and I said, you're gonnaget on the podcast.
Are you ready?

Rick (01:09):
I'm ready.
You're ready?
Let's do it.

Kayley (01:12):
So, um, I have a lot of questions here about discerning
God's will that I actuallywant some answers for myself.
Okay.
And I also thought maybewe could, like, jointly
discuss some of these thingsand really help people out.
But before we dive intoall the questions, I want
you to talk about the mostpivotal time where you
were discerning God's will.

Rick (01:31):
Okay.
So, uh, I did not startout in the ministry.
Um, I was raised in Tennessee,Clarksville, Tennessee as a
matter of fact, and I went toschool there and kind of played
my way through high school at,uh, my, some had some of my
friends who were interestedin technology and I kind of
followed their interest andI've always been pretty good at
math and understanding conceptsand ended up kind of leaning

(01:52):
toward electronic engineering.
Uh, went to what isnow Nashville State
Community College.
It used to be Nashville StateTechnical Institute, and figured
out once I got there that hey,one day people are gonna pay
me for how well I do in school.
And I buckled downand I did really well.
And, uh, when it cametime for companies to come
in and interview, I hadsome great opportunities.

(02:14):
Uh, Daytona Beach, uh, generalElectric was doing space shuttle
simulators, and they came andtalked to me and at and t uh,
bell Labs came and talked to me.
And, uh, but the companythat, that very rarely, uh.
Made hires.
It was just a very uniquething, was Sandia Laboratories
and Albuquerque, New Mexico.
And, uh, they did, uh, work,they were a lease agent for

(02:35):
the Department of Defense,department of Energy, and
they did nuclear weapon,uh, research and production.
And, uh, I was hired by themand it was a, it was a great
job between the time I washired in the time that I
actually left school and,and, uh, went to Albuquerque.
I was having a quiet timeand, and at that time I was
having a quiet time in themorning and the evening, and

(02:56):
the thought just randomlywent through my mind.
Why?
Why are you workingso hard at this?
God just spoke to my spiritand said, because you're
going to the ministry.
And I, at that moment,I closed my Bible and
said, not gonna happen.
Uh, you should havetold me sooner.
So this is all human logic.
Yeah.
You let me prepare for a careeryou didn't want me to be in.
And you knew this in advanceand you didn't inform me.

(03:16):
'cause wow.
I still wanted to be God.
Wow.
Right.
And you, yes, you should haveinformed me and got my consent
because we could have donethis differently together.

Kayley (03:26):
Differently, right.

Rick (03:27):
And so I'm not gonna do it.
Wow.
Wow.
And so I loaded up andmoved many, many miles to
Albuquerque, New Mexico.
I went through a big cultureshock from uh, you know, I
gotta understand, this is 1979.
I graduated high school in 1981.
I moved into Albuquerque.
So huge culture shock.
For me, uh, it is like I wentforward in time about 40 years

(03:48):
and got out and, and was workingwith people that I felt like
were way smarter than me.
Um, the, you know, my immediatesupervisor, dual citizenships,
a doctorate from Cambridge, and,you know, I, I was her flunky.
I did what she wanted to do,but they treated me well.
They paid me well.
It was the job of a lifetime,except it wasn't the

(04:08):
job God wanted me doing.
Mm.
And so I have learned, andI, uh, this is one of the
important things I wrote aboutit this morning in my journal.
Uh, we teach a young adultbible study, and this came
up in the Bible study lastFriday night, uh, that when
God begins to work in her life,there are two things he wants.
He wants consent.
And he wants cooperation.
And if he gets consent, nocooperation, it won't work.

(04:30):
And if he gets, you can't havecooperation without consent.
Yeah, of course.
And he had neither fromme, he had not consent.
I'm not gonna dothis, nor cooperation.
And so what he did is he tookme somewhere where he could
get it and, and it was painful.
Um, we saw a family abouttwo weeks ago that had been
influential in my life thatactually lived in Albuquerque,

(04:51):
and they came to visit and theyasked me what I missed and I
told 'em, I said that you guysprobably don't understand this.
That was a verypainful time for me.
Um, everything in my lifewas turned upside down.
A lot of discomfort, but itwas the only way God could
ever get me to listen to himsaying, you really need to
do what I want you to do.
So after two years Iresigned that job, which

(05:12):
is very, very rare.
Super rare.
Um,

Kayley (05:16):
because it was a government job, wasn't it?

Rick (05:18):
It's a government job that they tell you when we
hire you, you don't leave.
Because I had clearanceto secret, top secret
classified information.
And they invest a lot inyou to get that clearance.
And they want youto stay forever.
Yeah, of course.
And they treat you and

Kayley (05:31):
they incentivize it too.
I'm sure.
Yes.

Rick (05:32):
They, they treat you in such a way to
get you to stay forever.
Um.
And when I went in, it is crazyhow God works and sat down to my
supervisor and, and to resign aguy named Frank Gerstel and he
said, if you had come in thisoffice and said anything other
than God, he said, I studiedfor the Catholic priesthood.
Hmm.
Andhe said, that was my prior life.

(05:52):
And he said, if you'dhave come in here and said
anything, but you knowGod, I would tell you no.
He said, but youcan't argue with God.
No.
And, and they.
Graciously, um, didn'tmake it difficult on me.
Let me go and I startedschool again and, uh, ended
up pastoring in Oklahoma.
I left.
Um.
I left Tennessee in 1983.
Went to Fort Worth,uh, I'm sorry.

(06:14):
I came back to Tennessee in 83.
Left, uh, Tennessee in 86.
From 86 to 90, I was in FortWorth, getting my masters.
And from 90 until today, I'vebeen in the state of Oklahoma.
Never dreamed I'd be there,but God has used me in three
churches and the church I'm innow, uh, we started about 250.
And last, uh, couple ofweeks we've been at 2,600.

(06:34):
Just slightly over 2,600.
So God's done way morewith my life than I
ever dreamed he could.
Mm. Ever dreamed hecould, but it did.
It took two things.
Mm.
Consent.
Okay, God, I want what you want.
Mm, cooperation.
I'm willing to do whatmy consent leans toward.
In other words,I'll do the prep.
I'll go to school, I'llbust my tail to cooperate

(06:55):
with your purpose andyour will for my life.
Without those two things,we're not gonna get there.

Kayley (06:59):
I've got a couple questions already.
'cause you said it was likethe hardest time of your life.
Mm-hmm.
Being in Albuquerque and Iwanna know why exactly that was

Rick (07:07):
Okay.

Kayley (07:07):
Yeah.
Answer that first 'causethen I'll get to it.
So God removed me

Rick (07:09):
from all relationships.
I knew no one.

Kayley (07:11):
Okay.

Rick (07:12):
So I had no, uh, human support group.
Now I developedfriendships there.
I don't want to, it wasn'ttwo years of isolation.
Yeah.
I developed, but I wentinto an environment where
I had no support group.
I had no television.
Right.
So every night and I prayed, Iwould lay in bed and pray, God,
if you'll let me go to sleep,I'll do anything you wanna do.
It got that bad.

Kayley (07:32):
Wow.

Rick (07:32):
Just let me have one night of sleep because I'd go
home and lay in my bed and overand over again, this thought
would go through my mind.
Wow.
Okay, so

Kayley (07:41):
it was just.
More than anything,it was the unrest.
Like you had no peace, no peace.
When you don't have peace,it does rattle your cage.

Rick (07:48):
And I would tell you, 'cause we're talking
God's will, that one of themajor indicators of about
three is the peace of God.
Yeah,

Kayley (07:54):
of course.
Yeah.
That's good.
Okay.
And so the other question I had,well I gotta back it up 'cause
what were you saying beforeI asked that last question?

Rick (08:05):
Uh, which I remember about, God's done more
in, in life than Iever dreamed he would.
Consent and cooperation.

Kayley (08:13):
Yes.
Consent and cooperation.
Um, now I think the cooperationpart is a really interesting
part because I, I can lookback on my own life and see
all the areas in which I'veconsented, but I can also
see all the areas that I hadlimiting beliefs that blunted
or stunted my cooperation.
Mm-hmm.
Because I believed.

(08:34):
It wasn't possible.
I'm like, yes, God, I wantwhat you want for my life.
I'm so ready.
Like I am a yesacross the board.
And then you've got the devilin your ear telling you you're
worthless and you can't, andyou're just afraid to begin.
Sure.
And that's just beenso much of my life.

Rick (08:50):
I think fear's a big, big hold back for a lot of people.
Yeah.
Matter of fact, I had aconversation with a guy
I love a lot recently.
And I asked him, uh,he was sharing with
me, he procrastinated.
And, and I had been reading and,and in the reading had learned
that procrastination and fearof failure are tied together,
is that we put off because we'reafraid it's just not gonna work.

(09:10):
And I looked at him, Isaid, Hey, brother, are
you afraid of failure?
He said, I've been afraidof failure my whole life.
Hmm.
And so that keeps me fromsaying, okay, here's an open,
God says, here's an open door.
I'm too afraid.
I'm too afraid,

Kayley (09:21):
man.
I know that too.
Well, the Lord has said tome a few times, he's like,
why do you put more faithin your ability to fail
than my ability to redeem?

Rick (09:30):
That's great.

Kayley (09:31):
And it has knocked me sideways.
But it was one thing that likeit, it hit my spirit so acutely,
but it still didn't registerin my soul, like in my heart.
And I was battling thisconcept of like, yes,
I know that to be true.
Like I'm putting more faith inmy ability to fail, but when
is there gonna be a turnoverwhen I don't do that anymore?

Rick (09:51):
Right.

Kayley (09:52):
And it's been.
A long process and Istill think I've, I'm
flushing out the remnants.
Yeah.
And it just, and that'sjust the grace of God.
Like he'll give me a concept ora lesson and then he will just
patiently watch me work it out.
And he's so gracious.

Rick (10:10):
Well, if you, if you take that consent and cooperation
concept and you look at Jesuscalling the disciples and he, he
walks up to them and, and we arebig on the phrase, follow me.

Kayley (10:19):
Not

Rick (10:19):
give your heart to Jesus.
Not do you believe in Jesus?
Follow me.
Get up every day.
Follow me.
Yes.
So he walks up to theseguys, he says, follow me.
That's consent.
Sure.
I'm gonna follow you.
Cooperation happened in three,the next three and a half years,
which was, let me argue withyou about what you want to do.
Let me tell you you'rewrong, Jesus, in the
decision you're making.
Mm. Let's call fire down onthese people and destroy them.

Kayley (10:42):
Yeah.
And

Rick (10:42):
so this.
The cooperation came slowerfor them than the consent.
Mm. Some people consent'sharder for, uh, but, but
it's both a growth aspect.

Kayley (10:51):
Interesting.
Do you feel like you cancooperate without fully
giving your consent?

Rick (10:57):
Hmm.
Okay, so let's take the personwho fakes their way through.
Uh, they've got aduplicitous life, right?
Yeah.
They're not really lining upwith God on this side, but
they're looking like they do.
Yeah.
They're cooperating, butthey're not consenting.

Kayley (11:12):
Yeah.

Rick (11:12):
Eventually that shows up somewhere.
But I think the bigger, I thinkmore people, I think that's
a very, you know, when you'recooperating and not consenting,

Kayley (11:21):
I think you can cooperate without
consent to man.
There you go.
But to God it's different.
Because when I think aboutbeing bulldoged by somebody,
or being manipulated orwhatever, abused, whatever
you consent out of fear.
Or no, sorry.
You, you cooperate outof fear, but you don't,
but you don't consent.
Yeah.
Your soul's like, Idon't wanna do this, but
I'm doing this anyway,

Rick (11:39):
so, and they, possibly another word for
consent, because what yousaid just triggered that
for me is submission.

Kayley (11:45):
Yes.

Rick (11:45):
Is that, uh, it's possible to be forced to obey.
For instance, God could havemade me so miserable that I
resigned my job, but my heartnever surrendered to him, that I
never submitted to him.
Fortunately by the timehe got through with me.
Uh, I would've consented toabout anything you wanted.

Kayley (12:04):
Yeah.

Rick (12:04):
Uh, to be able, and then, then it became cooperation.
Will you go in?
Go to school.
Well, I'm, I didn't loveschool, but I did what God
wanted me to, to cooperate, toget me where he wanted me to.

Kayley (12:15):
Well, 'cause you know, we're talking about
free will at that point.
Yes.
And he gives you freewill and his sovereignty.
But the idea of likenot giving you peace.
Oof.
When you don't have peace,everything aches and you
like, I've been in thoseplaces where my soul was yes.
You know?
'cause we're mind, we'rewe're soul, body and spirit.
And I've had situationswhere like my soul is

(12:37):
like, yes, I want this.
Yes, this is good for me.
Yes, this is the bestthing I've experienced.
And my spirit waslike, that ain't it.
You're right.
And you just feelcompletely torn.
And I remember one timesomebody said this to me.
'cause I was like, how doyou know if it's, if I'm,
if I should go throughand do this opportunity?
And someone said, if you havepeace, if you have desire,

(12:59):
and if you have an open door.
Okay.
And I'm like, you know,that makes a lot of sense.
I feel like it's aneasy, you know, addition
problem of like peace.

Rick (13:07):
So Henry Blackaby predates you.
Uh, he, he did theum experiencing God.
Okay.
He did experiencing God.
He, he had three criteria.
He had the word of God.

Kayley (13:18):
Okay.

Rick (13:18):
The truth.

Kayley (13:19):
Yes.
It's

Rick (13:19):
gotta line up with the truth.
Yeah.
Then he had the peace of God.
Yep.
Then he had the counselof Godly people.
That's he, he saidthose things line up.
That's good.
And when those things line up,that you can proceed forward.

Kayley (13:32):
And I feel like that's for anything.
It's, I mean, I really needthat for relationships.
Like when my next, when myfuture husband comes around.
He better come soon.
I'm just gonna say like,I've got a whole list of
people of godly counselthat I need Yes from.

Rick (13:48):
Right.
I'm not, that's really smart.
I'm

Kayley (13:50):
not, I'm not doing it alone anymore.
Like I know Kayley andKayley in the past has
operated from wounds oflike, oh, I want this person.
And it was entirely based on adeficiency in my life and not
based on like God's alignment.
That's really

Rick (14:03):
good.

Kayley (14:04):
And, and I've had to.
You, you learn and yougrow and you mature.
Because I've been throughfailed relationships, and I
don't wanna go through more.

Rick (14:10):
Well, let's, let's go back a couple of hundred years.
Who made that decisionfor you 200 years ago?
Who chose yourhusband 200 years ago?
You didn't?

Kayley (14:18):
No.

Rick (14:19):
Who, who chose your husband 200 years ago?

Kayley (14:21):
Probably the devil.

Rick (14:22):
No, no, no, no.
Literally 200 years ago.
Go back.
Go back.
500 years.
And who chose your husband?
Yeah.
You had no voice init, your parents.
Your father and your mothermade the choice of who you'd
lived the rest of your lifewith and you had no voice in it.
Oh,

Kayley (14:36):
sorry.
I get it now.

Rick (14:37):
And, and they are looking and they're going, what is
best for our little girl?

Kayley (14:41):
Yes.

Rick (14:42):
And because, and, and I know you wanna talk
some relationship stuffand we can Well, I don't

Kayley (14:46):
know if I want to.
I mean Okay.
Keep going.
Keep going though.

Rick (14:48):
Well, we're, we're the first couple of
generations who've hadthe privilege of romance.

Kayley (14:53):
I know that is a privilege.
It is a privilege, andI do think about that.
I'm like, we're sobased on our chemistry.
Yes.
Like how we feel and gosh,feelings are fleeting.

Rick (15:02):
Chemistry fades, character lasts

Kayley (15:03):
Yes.

Rick (15:04):
Right?
Yes.
Chemistry is real.
Yeah.
There are a lot of thingsthat happen in our body.
Colors get brighter.
Music sounds betterwhen we fall in love.
There's all kinds of stuff thatreally does happen, but also
it's really true that it fades.

Kayley (15:15):
Yes.

Rick (15:16):
And character doesn't.
Character lasts.
And so parents choosecharacter people.
You and I choose chemistry.
Yeah.
Well, and then we wonderwhy things don't last.
So when, when you had Godlyparents looking at you and
going, this, there's a manof character who will love
and take care of my daughter.
Right.
They didn't go,does he look good?
They didn't ask, is he wealthy?

(15:37):
They said he's aman of character.
Mm-hmm.
If they were good parents,they make that decision.
And you learn because bothof you're seeking God.
Love is then possible.
Mm-hmm.
And we've turned love into.
I didn't feel the flutter.

Kayley (15:50):
Yeah.
And you know, like looking backon my last relationship, and I
don't even mind talking about itlittle bit, by the way, before

Rick (15:55):
we go on, my wife's over here.
I did feel the flutter.
I did, I did, I didfeel the flutter.
Stephanie's

Kayley (16:00):
in the studio.
Hello Stephanie.
Um, but my last relationship,we had a ton of chemistry.
It was like we, we reallyfit in a lot of ways.
There were some issues,obviously we're not
together anymore.
But one thing that reallyhit home for me was, I can't
remember who said this to me,but they said to me, Kayley,
he's good for your soul,not good for your spirit.
And it was so true.

(16:21):
It's like, man, I amnot being called higher.
I'm not being built up like I'mactually in regression because
this relationship is all aboutearthly, like fleshly comfort.
And I, I'm nevergonna grow from that.
I, and I'm not gonnathrive from that.
And I need someone that'sgonna be that, you know, iron

(16:42):
sharpens iron kind of thing.
And, and

Rick (16:44):
see, I would tell you what I've told, uh, in our
world, a bunch of young women.
Right, is that there are a lotof young women who've taken God
really seriously and there's adeficit of young men who have,

Kayley (16:55):
yeah.
And

Rick (16:55):
I do believe God is raising some young men up.
We work with some of them.
And I'm seeing someincredible, a, a decade
behind where you are.
There's some incredibleguys coming up.

Kayley (17:05):
Yes.
Yeah.
I believe that.
But for a

Rick (17:06):
whole bunch of, of women finding a leader Yeah.
Which is what you'retalking about.
Yeah.
Who can lead me?
Yeah.
Who can take me somewhereis very difficult,
especially for, uh, anindependent, strong-willed
woman who's pursuing God.
And you find somebody andthe chemistry lines up and
the emotions line up andthe feels are all there.
Yeah.

(17:26):
And then it comes to theGod side and it's like,
you're way behind me.

Kayley (17:31):
Yeah.
And I think I just reallywanna have those like spirit
filled conversations with mypartner and just be like, uh,
let's talk about Holy Spirit.
'cause like it is thebest thing in the world.
And I, me and uh, I've got ahandful of single girlfriends
that are so beautiful andso ready for husband, like
they're amazing women.

(17:51):
And we both, we all hadthis consensus of like, we'd
rather be single than settle.
I'd rather live the life ofPaul and do ministry full
time and just let the Lordbe my husband than settle
on anyone that's gonna,

Rick (18:04):
you've been through this.
Yeah.
But talk to anybody whoserelationship ended and
they will tell you there issomething worse than singleness.

Kayley (18:11):
Yes.
And I, yep.
And I know what it, I mean,certain bad alignments can feel
like death sentences becausethere is a death to a dream.
There's a death to a Godcall because the enemy
will bring in counterfeitsfor you to get distracted
and align yourself with.
And it's all to get you offcourse because God wants to

(18:32):
give you a rich, abundant life.
The enemy wants to kill,steal, and destroy.
And he is gonna do that.
It's a deceiver.
Yeah, he's a deceiver.

Rick (18:38):
So you gotta get your consent.

Kayley (18:40):
Yes.

Rick (18:41):
And then your cooperation looks, it's, it's a, um.
It's deception.
It looks like the real thing.

Kayley (18:47):
Yeah.

Rick (18:48):
And, and, and it doesn't take because we're human and
we want something so badly.

Kayley (18:52):
Yeah, we do.

Rick (18:53):
Everybody wants to be loved on the human side.
Yes.

Kayley (18:55):
I mean, man is not good for man to be alone.
Right.
Like, and God said thatto Adam while he was
in the garden with him.
And so that'ssomething powerful.
So

Rick (19:02):
we're already prone, we're already pro to falling
on the wrong side of that.
Yes.
Even the man, you, you, theman chose the woman above God.

Kayley (19:11):
Mmm.
Ooh,

Rick (19:13):
Ooh.
It's ugly picture.

Kayley (19:14):
Yikes.
I don't want that,that I got God on this

Rick (19:16):
hand.
And I got the woman holdingthe fruit out on this
hand, which one I choose.
She looks really good.

Kayley (19:21):
Yeah.
And I don't wanna beanyone's, God, I don't.
That's too much to live up to.
I'm just gonnadisappoint, you know.
And that comes back, I'vesaid this I think on the
podcast before, but talkingabout how women have
this power to influence.
Mm-hmm.
And we can influence tosanctify or influence to seduce.

Rick (19:39):
Oh yes.

Kayley (19:40):
And I see that play out a lot in my life.
And I think aboutthat in myself.
'cause I feel like I havelike great relationships
with, you know, differentguys and everything.
And I can relateto men really well.
I, I think, and my friendstell me this too, but
it's one of those thingswhere I have to really be
careful so that I'm not

Rick (19:55):
getting an attachment.

Kayley (19:57):
Yeah.
From them, um, and that I'minfluencing to sanctify and
build them towards Jesus,not build them towards me.

Rick (20:05):
Okay.
So we, we teach our peoplethat there are three
areas God wants you to beintimate in, in a marriage.
He wants you to havephysical intimacy, emotional
intimacy, spiritual intimacy.
Mm-hmm.
And, and the world looks atit and goes, oh, the greatest
intimacy ever is physicalintimacy, sexual intimacy.
Uh, and yet whenyou talk to people.
If you ever find someonewho says, we have a great
physical relationshipand we are best friends,

(20:27):
everybody goes, oh my gosh.

Kayley (20:29):
Yeah.
That's,

Rick (20:29):
yeah.
That's, that's, that's great.
What if, what if you had a greatfriendship, a great physical
relationship, but the cream,the thing that held everything
together was the spiritual,

Kayley (20:40):
ugh.

Rick (20:40):
So here's the danger, and I, I have guys in my
life who won't do Biblestudy with a female single
guys, because that is thehighest level of intimacy.
Yeah.
And they,

Kayley (20:50):
yeah.

Rick (20:52):
Everything.
You start feeling thesethings and they're

Kayley (20:54):
not in covenant.

Rick (20:55):
Yes.
And it

Kayley (20:55):
can get confusing.

Rick (20:56):
Yes, yes.

Kayley (20:59):
And so it's like, yeah, I, I've, I've heard people
say like, don't pray with yourpartner unless you're married.

Rick (21:05):
Which, because it's a level of intimacy.
It's a level of intimacy.
I'm not sure I go that farbecause I think there is,
there is a time and a placefor spiritual development.
In a growing relationship,I would probably lean more
on the, why are we waitingso long to get married
once we discover this?
Yeah, that's right.
Why are we putting ourselfthrough the torture of

Kayley (21:26):
Yeah, if I know I'm wanna marry this man.
Yes.
And the marriage islike five months out.
Like, I'll be prayingwith this dude.
You know what I mean?
But yeah, it's that.
That's such a good point.
And I think that's why likewomen's small groups, men's
small groups are so powerful.
Um, and not being distractedby the opposite sex
'cause that's so easy.
It's so easy to be, as soonas you like, there's a,

(21:46):
there's music or ministriesand there's a female bible
study and a men's bible study.
And every so often we cometogether to do the, uh, we
do this like burgers andbaptisms and it's co-ed.
And of course, in everyone'smind, everyone's looking around.
Sure.
It's like, well, who's here?
Oh, you're a Christian.
Maybe you are.
I don't know howdeep your faith is.
I'm not in the study with you.
I don't know the fruit,

Rick (22:05):
but you look good.
But we're looking.
Yes,

Kayley (22:08):
we're looking.
So, okay.
Well this is all really good.
And of course we could godown the rabbit hole of
relationships more, butfrankly I don't want to do
that because I don't want to.
I'd rather talk about someof these identity calling
questions that I have.
Okay.
Because I just thinkthey're really good and,
and there's a lot of peopleI know that are gonna be
listening to this that need.

(22:29):
They just need breakthrough.
Okay.
And I think we all cometo moments where we need
the next breakthrough.
So the first question I havedown is how do I know if
I'm walking in God's will orjust chasing my own dream?

Rick (22:43):
You know, the scripture says, um, that if we will
seek God, he'll give usthe desires of our heart.
And, and there's twoways to understand that.

Kayley (22:49):
Yep.

Rick (22:50):
One is, God's gonna gimme everything I want.
That is a misunderstandingof scripture.

Kayley (22:54):
Yes.
Yes.

Rick (22:55):
That when we begin to seek God.
Then God will changethe desires of our heart
to line up with him.
This is what facts the,the New Testament means.
When it says, pray in the nameof Jesus, it doesn't mean to
end your prayer in Jesus' name.
Mm. I pray this.
It means to pray fromthe perspective and
the place of Jesus.
Mm.
So when we, when we get to thatspot in our personal spiritual

(23:17):
life, then the distance betweenwhat I want and what God
wants, they get really close.
Mm. You know, the, uh,the idea is when they.
Are the same.

Kayley (23:28):
Yes.
Uh,

Rick (23:29):
but that problem, that, that distance between what
I want and what God wantsand the human, the ability
of, of a human to convincethemself or blame God.
Convince himself that Godhas given them something
that does not line up withhis will is incredibly huge.
Uh, we often say, well, Godtold me to do this, and it,

(23:50):
and they're just like, all yougotta do is open your Bible.
God did not tell you to do that.
Oh,

Kayley (23:53):
yeah, totally.

Rick (23:54):
Oh, or uh, like

Kayley (23:55):
whose voice are you listening to then?
Yes.
Ah.
But,

Rick (23:57):
but we see what we wanna see.

Kayley (23:58):
Yeah, totally.
What you

Rick (23:59):
have, uh.
Have rose colored glasseson today, kind of,
and, and they orange,

Kayley (24:03):
a little orange.

Rick (24:05):
People have a, you know, a case of glasses that
they pull out which ones theywant to see what they want.
Yeah, it's so true.
And so the more we line ourpersonal spiritual growth up.
With God.
I really, my goal inlife is to know you.
The less distance thereis between what I want
and what you want.

Kayley (24:23):
Yeah.

Rick (24:23):
Um,

Kayley (24:24):
that's why I think it's good.
Like at one point myprayer life changed.
I wasn't just praying whatKayley wanted to pray.
I started really, um,asking Holy Spirit, Holy
Spirit, is there somethingyou want me to pray?
Can you give me a word on thisor being curious about it?
Like, Holy Spirit, am Iwearing rose colored glasses?
Mm-hmm.
Is there something aboutthis circumstance that

(24:46):
I'm not understanding thatyou can illuminate for me?

Rick (24:49):
Eyes to see, ears to hear.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.

Kayley (24:51):
And I think you just, because his job is to bring
to remembrance, his job isto summon and, and partnering
with Holy Spirit, like gettingthe mind of God in the prayer?
He'll gimme so many prayersto pray, and I'll be
like, wow, I didn't knowI needed to pray that.
And there's power in them whenI'm partnering the Holy Spirit,

Rick (25:08):
when we work with our young adult group, uh,
this bible study that meetsin our house there, a lot
of our young women, andthey're smart young women,
they, they want one thing.
Mm, I wanna get marriedand have babies.

Kayley (25:20):
Yeah.

Rick (25:20):
It's no longer is it the, I wanna make a million dollars.
I wanna own my own business,I wanna get married,
I wanna have babies.
My life goal.
And sometimes they get reallyexcited about, let me find
somebody, and Steph will timeafter time and tell them.
You.
You develop yourrelationship with God.

Kayley (25:36):
Yes.

Rick (25:37):
You develop your relationship with God.
Stop.
Stop looking around.
Start looking in.
Yeah, develop that.
God will bring it toyou when you're ready.

Kayley (25:44):
And it's so hard 'cause we have all these limiting
beliefs like, well if I don'tmeet him by 25, then I won't be
able to get married by 28 andthen won't be able to kid by 30.
Right?
Like we have these timelinesand it just means that
we're in the driver'sseat and God isn't right.
And we're not fully submitted.
We haven't submitted our dreams,our goals, because God has a
beautiful plan for our lives.
And it's better thanwe could ever think or

(26:06):
imagine if we would justtrust him a little bit.
And man, I have liketried to yank the wheel
from him so many times.
I mean, I'm, I'mnow 35 years old.
My life is not what I everplanned it was gonna be
or what I thought it wasgonna be, but I have more
joy than I've ever had.
I have more peace,I have more, um,

Rick (26:24):
opportunity.

Kayley (26:25):
Opportunity.
But like I, my identity, um,is coming full clear to me.
I'm like, why does it taking me35 years to figure out who I am?
And it's because, I mean,that's a whole nother story,
but learning like, what doesGod say about me and really
getting to the truth of itand leaving behind all the
fluff, all the, everythingthat I once held dear.
And one thing I've seen aboutGod is that a lot of times

(26:49):
he'll bring something to mewhen it's no longer my greatest
desire, and I think it's becausehe doesn't want competition.

Rick (26:57):
That's it.
He doesn't want, it's an idol.

Kayley (26:59):
Yes, it's an idol.
He doesn't want yourheart worshiping anything
else from him but him.

Rick (27:02):
Well, what's your Isaac?

Kayley (27:04):
Yeah, what's your Isaac?
He'll probably ask you tosacrifice it and not, not
to even follow throughwith the sacrifice.
He wants your heart.
He wants your willingness.

Rick (27:13):
I wanna know you love me.

Kayley (27:14):
I wanna know you love me.
And how is He gonna knowthat unless there's that
thing to contend with.
It's like the tree.
I was like, God, why would youput the tree in the garden?
The tree of good and evil?
He's like, well, 'cause Ineeded something to tell
me that you loved me.

Rick (27:29):
Love has to have a choice.

Kayley (27:30):
Love has a choice.
Are you gonna obey me or not?
If you love me, you'll obey me.
It's good.
Dang da.
Dang.
Okay, we got another one.
What if I feel like Imissed God's will, can I
still get back on track?

Rick (27:45):
Sure, sure.
'cause we alreadyhave missed his will.
Yeah, right.
Oh my gosh.
A gazillion times.

Kayley (27:50):
A gazillion times.

Rick (27:51):
Yeah.
You know.
Um.
We're in the middle of aparenting series at our
church, and, and I closed outthe message Sunday by saying
I made a lot of mistakes.
Mm. I looked at my life asa parent and I thought I was
too young and too immatureto have kids when I had 'em.
Mm.
And so I made a lot of mistakesand I've had to sit down with
my kids and say, Hey, I'm sorry.

Kayley (28:09):
Yeah.

Rick (28:10):
I'm sorry for, for the dad.
I was or wasn't, but I can't.
Undo any of that.
Mm-hmm.
What I can do islive differently now.
It's the same waywith God's will.
I can't go back andchange a moral mistake.
I can't go back andchange a career mistake.
I can't go back and changeany of these things.
All I can do right now islive differently right now.

Kayley (28:28):
Yeah.

Rick (28:28):
Is that I'm gonna do my best to line up with
where you want me to beright now and pursue that.
That that's the definition.
People ask this question, howdo I know I'm a Christian?
Well, because you walked anaisle when you were six years
old and somebody had you signa paper and they baptized you
and that's how you know No.
You know, be, you know, becauseof where your life is today.
Yeah.
Are you walking with him today?

Kayley (28:49):
You have a relationship with him

Rick (28:50):
today?

Kayley (28:51):
Yeah.

Rick (28:52):
Yeah.
And there, you know,

Kayley (28:53):
yeah.

Rick (28:54):
Anyway, sorry, I kind of diverted off

Kayley (28:55):
there.
No, but it's so true,and I think it also
comes back to listening.
Like I wasn't a good listener.
Because I wasn'tsubmitted to God.
I was a listenerto what I wanted.
And so, yeah.
Do I think if I was fullysubmitted to God, would I have
married the man I married?
No, I think I would'veprobably not done that.

Rick (29:12):
Right.

Kayley (29:13):
Um.
But at the same time,like you, when you learn
better, you do better.
And now I choose to puteverything before God to
get his say on the matterbefore I make big decisions.
'cause I don'twanna do it alone.
And the days that Ihaven't opened my ears to
listen to what he says,those are my worst days.
'cause I'm just dealingwith my own nest, nasty mind
and thoughts and like, I'mlike, no, like listening

(29:35):
I think is everything.
And then what do you do?
Is there consent?
Is their Cooper cooperation.
Cooperation istheir collaboration.
I love collaborating with God.
Oh, that's

Rick (29:45):
be the third C. Yeah.

Kayley (29:47):
You got that for free.

Rick (29:48):
Alright, thank you.
I'll quote you.

Kayley (29:50):
Thank you.
Um, and you know, like theidea of like getting back
on like, like missing God'swill, I don't know if you've
ever struggled with this,but I think it comes back to
the failure mindset of like,oh God, I, I messed up like.
Are you gonna condemn me?
Are you gonna punish mebecause I didn't hear you

(30:10):
correctly or follow throughwhen I did hear something
like, am I gonna be punished?
I've, I've dealt withthat a lot and it's
totally not God's voice.
When I feel punished,it's totally the enemy.
And I, and I don't know ifyou would agree with this or
not, but this is what I reallybelieve about God's voice.
His voice always builds you.
It never buries you.
I

Rick (30:30):
would agree with that

Kayley (30:31):
because I, I've struggled with that
'cause I think sometimes.
We con, we confuseconviction and guilt.

Rick (30:38):
Oh, shame.
Shame.
Take it a step further.
Shame.

Kayley (30:41):
Yes, emotions have frequencies and shame
actually is the lowestreverberating frequency.
Wow.
And the highest isactually authenticity.

Rick (30:52):
Wow.

Kayley (30:52):
Which is really fascinating to me.
It

Rick (30:54):
is fascinating

Kayley (30:55):
and it just shows you how ugly shame can
be and it really takesyou to the lowest places

Rick (31:00):
you take that frequency thing out.
Do they've discovered, youknow, certain frequencies heal.
Oh, totally.
And certain frequencies hurt.

Kayley (31:07):
Yeah.
Yep.
Even music frequencies.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I think it was in theforties that they mandated
that all music frequencieswere gonna be, uh, in 440.
And so anytime you listento music, it's all tuned
to the frequency of 440.
But that was actually to getlike a guttural anger response.

Rick (31:25):
Do you know who developed that?
440 frequency.

Kayley (31:28):
Well, it didn't have to do with the war.

Rick (31:30):
Germans.
Yeah, the German.
The Germans did it.
Yes.
Yeah.

Kayley (31:32):
And they weren’t consulting the music
aficionados of the day..

Rick (31:36):
No, it was with purpose.
It was

Kayley (31:37):
with purpose to get people riled up to go to war.
And so when you, when youfind yourself listening
to music and it makes youlike angsty, well there's a
reason behind that, right?
But then there's theheart frequency, and
I think it is it 430?

Rick (31:49):
You got me

Kayley (31:50):
4 38.
Y'all need to go look that up.
'cause I can't remember.
But it makes me wanna actuallycreate music in the heart
frequency, which I think ismore in tune with heaven.
And it makes you feel different.
It really does.
Yeah.
That was a side note.
Everybody got that for free?
Okay, here's a good one.
What if I'm giftedin multiple areas?
Mm-hmm.
How do I know whichone to pursue?

Rick (32:11):
So I believe that one of the things the church
does is provide peoplea safe place to fail.
Mm. Um, and, and our worlddoesn't do that very well.

Kayley (32:20):
Yeah.

Rick (32:21):
Um, you know, I've got a young man in
our church that is, uh.
18 years old that will preachhis first sermon in December.
You do?
Yes.
Oh.
We, every one of our staffmembers, all of our, our guys,
they all get a chance to preach,but here's what we do with them.
You submit in writingwhat you're gonna do.

Kayley (32:38):
Okay.

Rick (32:39):
Uh, you rewrite it and rewrite it.
Yeah.
And you get it down toa package and then you
preach it to our staff.

Kayley (32:44):
Yeah.
And you

Rick (32:44):
might have to preach it a couple of times, but by
the time you get in front ofour people, you're guaranteed
a good measure of success.
Mm. Because you have refined it.
Now, the process hasrevealed to some of our
guys, I can do this once.
Good.
I can't do it every week.
Took me six monthsto get a message.
I, I can do a message in sixmonths, but I can't do one every

(33:04):
two days or every three days.

Kayley (33:06):
Sure.

Rick (33:06):
So you, you start to refine your skills and I
believe God confirms to uswhich of our talents, if we
have multiple talents, whichone we're supposed to use by
what happens when we use it.

Kayley (33:19):
Okay.
Can you keep going?

Rick (33:21):
So, so if you sang and everybody boo.
That's a goodindicator, right, right.
That I

Kayley (33:28):
suck and I should never seen it or,

Rick (33:29):
or no one showed up.

Kayley (33:30):
Oh, well that that's happened though.

Rick (33:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you're seeing it,if you're singing it on

Broadway at at 9 (33:36):
30 in the morning, nobody's there.
Oh, goodness.
But, but if you're teaching aBible study and you start with
10 and next week there's 15,and the next week there's 20,
and then you can't meet in yourhouse anymore, there's a good
likelihood that God is saying,now you found what you wanted.
What I want you to do.

Kayley (33:50):
Interesting.
But would you say that there'sa difference between having
a gift operating in your giftand then having an anointing?

Rick (33:57):
Oh, yes.

Kayley (33:58):
How would you define that?

Rick (33:59):
Yeah.
Probably ones would be closerto talent and one would
be closer to giftedness.
Okay.
Like spiritually giftedness.
Well, for instance, have youalways been able to sing?

Kayley (34:09):
Yeah.

Rick (34:09):
Even before you knew God?

Kayley (34:12):
Yeah, yeah,

Rick (34:13):
yeah.
I've

Kayley (34:13):
stung my whole life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then there's

Rick (34:15):
a moment.
There's a moment when you'llsing and God shows up.

Kayley (34:19):
Oh my goodness.
Yes.

Rick (34:20):
And and there's there's your difference.
Yeah.
Even people who don'tknow God have talent.
Some greatly talentedpeople, but when we combine
talent with God's spirit,something different happens.

Kayley (34:31):
I mean, there are some incredible singers
in this town and beyondthat don't move me at all.
There's just nothingthere for me,

Rick (34:39):
or have an anointing not from God.
From, from Satan.
Oh yeah.
Because he can do the samething and make people feel
and empower things and Yeah.
And

Kayley (34:49):
you know, there's something there.
Yeah.
That's good.
Or I've heard people thatdon't have like the best
voice in the world, butthey've got anointing.
And I'm weeping.

Rick (34:57):
I've, I've shared this story.
Um, I went to a church service.
Some kids had comeback from camp and we
went to celebrate it.
And the guy who led the camp.
Loved to play his guitar.
He could not sing.
He could not, it was horrible.
It was horrible.
But he led a worshipservice and I couldn't look
up, I could not look up.
Wow.
It was such an incrediblespiritual moment.

(35:17):
And he, he, him screamingthis song at the top of his
lungs looking at heaven,and I looked at the floor.
Oh.
'cause it was sucha. Worship moment.
Yeah.
And it was horrible,but it was wonderful.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
No,

Kayley (35:33):
it's so true.
And that's why I, Ireally, I want people
to look past their ears.
If that makes sense.
And like, uh, John Bevere,I love John Bevere.
I started reading his book,Awe of God, and he talks
about the presence of God.
He said, you know, God isomnipresent, but there is a
requirement of reverence inthe room for his manifest

(35:54):
presence to come down.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And when you see people thatare worshiping and maybe
they don't have the mosttalent, but they had this.
Genuine, authentic aweand reverence for God.
Their worship isn't tobring themselves glory,
but to glorify God.
There is something tangible thathappens to the atmosphere and
yeah, you just can't help butlike submit to it or worship

(36:16):
or glorify God yourself.

Rick (36:17):
Yeah.

Kayley (36:17):
And it's, um, that's a, it's

Rick (36:19):
very much that moment for me.

Kayley (36:20):
Yeah.
And it's so powerfulseeing someone worship
with just complete

Rick (36:25):
abandon.

Kayley (36:26):
Abandonment.
Yes.
It's so good.
I, I feel like we'rereally, we're really
hitting on some things.
Well, good.
Okay.
This is a good one becauseI struggled with this one
myself, and I'm so flippingglad that I'm out of this rut.
But this question is, whatif I feel like God is silent?
Does that mean I'm off track?

Rick (36:45):
No.
Look, um.
We make this mistake whenwe read the Bible, we read
the Bible like it happenedover the course of a year.
God did this, this, this, this.
Every day, God's doingsomething every day.
There were years where God wassilent, matter of fact, um,
and I can't remember, I did acount of the number of miracles

(37:05):
and then we, we divided, we didthe count of the miracles in
the Old Testament and the countof all the miracles in the New
Testament that were recorded.
Then we divide itback by the time.
Oh, that's goodto find out how often.
A miracle showed up.
Yeah.
And understanding every miracleGod did is not in, is not,
not listed of course, butof those that were listed.

Kayley (37:22):
Yes.

Rick (37:23):
Uh, it came up to be one about, I think every 60 years.
Wow.
When we did the math on it,and I'm doing this from memory,
so I may be off a little bit,but, uh, the question is,
you still waiting on yours,

Kayley (37:35):
man.
Right.

Rick (37:36):
Just go, just go love Jesus and live your life.
And if the miracleshows up, it shows up.

Kayley (37:40):
Yes.

Rick (37:41):
But if you're living life for the miracle.
You're probably gonnabe disappointed.

Kayley (37:45):
Yes.
But also miracles aregonna be different than
hearing God's voice daily.
Yeah.

Rick (37:49):
Oh yes.
And,

Kayley (37:51):
and which is, that's a whole nother concept.
But to your point, and Iactually heard this recently
and it, it blew my mind, but Iwas looking at the cannon of,
of, of the Bible and how there'sthose 400 years silence of
silence between the last prophetMalachi and the New Testament.
Mm-hmm.
And you think like, okay,well God was silent during
that time, but he totallywasn't because he's never,

(38:13):
he's never just quiet.
And what I, what Isaw historically.
During this time, the Greekscame over, they had their
empire, and when the Greeks tookover, they were major empire.
They spread Greek.

Rick (38:26):
Mm-hmm.

Kayley (38:27):
The language of Greek and it became the point

Rick (38:29):
The Koine Greek, the language of the people.

Kayley (38:30):
It became the "lingua franka".
Yeah.
Everyone, pretty much, it wasthe common, just like English
is today a major glue language.
So then they fall.
The Roman Empire comesthrough and they build roads

Rick (38:41):
for the gospel.

Kayley (38:42):
For the gospel.
And so now, now that thegospel is present in the New
Testament, Jesus comes, theyhave the common language
Greek, because the entireNew Testament was originally
written in Greek so thateveryone could understand it.
And they've got the roadsto take it to all the
people that need to hear it.
And I'm just like, wow,Lord, you are so strategic.

Rick (38:59):
Separate, God being silent from God, being at work.
God is always at work,

Kayley (39:05):
always at work,

Rick (39:05):
always at work.
And, and there could bea lot of reasons that God
is silent in our lives.
Um, so, so thinking thatyou've been abandoned, for
instance, in my marriage,there are times that Steph and
I are silent with each other.
Uh, does that meanshe's not present?

(39:26):
No.
Does that mean I'm notenjoying her presence?
Not unless we're mad.
Yeah.
Which is a whole nother silence.
Yeah.
But just.
Si just pure silencewithout a relational
impact can be enjoyable.

Kayley (39:39):
Oh yeah.
'cause you just, you'reliving and breathing

Rick (39:42):
well.
You're together.
You're

Kayley (39:42):
together.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
I mean, I think aboutmoments where I'm not even
speaking with God, butI just feel next to him.
Close,

Rick (39:49):
close and intimate,

Kayley (39:50):
and you just don't feel alone.
There's, there, there'ssomething so, uh,
satiating about it.

Rick (39:57):
Uh, you typically what I hear when people tell me
God is silent, the next thingwe look at is, is the why.
Mm-hmm.
And more often than not, thereis a why in our lives when
someone complains to me, well,I'm just not hearing from God.
Usually there's a why.
Uh oh,

Kayley (40:14):
totally.
Absolutely.
There's

Rick (40:16):
a why, because if you're not, if you're, if, if you
feel like you need to behearing from him and you're
not, it's usually on your side.

Kayley (40:22):
Yeah.
I, I think I came intothis revelation this year,
but it was back in 2023.
No, maybe 20, 20, 22, where Ifelt like God was so silent and
in ways I know he was maturingme and his voice was just
growing quieter so that I wouldgrow and learn how to listen
more clearly and, uh, patiently.
But also I started to believethat God didn't wanna speak to

(40:44):
me in the, in that process andthat everything I'd ever heard
of from him in the past wasprobably wrong, or I misheard.
And that was totally again, thefather of the lies coming in
to distort my memory, distortmy perception of God and I, it
was me who blocked God's voice.
Lemme pause

Rick (41:02):
you for just a second, okay?
I would challenge you.
Don't do it right now, butif you look at your life,
you've lived that moment onthis planet, that planted
that seed that Satan usedto get you to think that
thought before it everhappened between you and God.

Kayley (41:19):
Wait, say that again?

Rick (41:20):
That you lived that moment between in some
relationship in this life.

Kayley (41:24):
Yeah.
Where

Rick (41:24):
something very similar happened to you that planted
the seed that Satan could comeand whisper to you remember
when this happened and now God'sdone it to you too, and that
becomes the root of that doubt.

Kayley (41:38):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Where it's allperformance related.
That's actually what I'm walkingthrough right now, where I've,
I've had this performanceconcept of performing for God.
Like if I'm not performing,then I'm gonna be rejected

Rick (41:50):
You're earning love.

Kayley (41:50):
God God's gonna withhold.
Yeah.
And, and you know, it's funny,we talk about parents grooming.
My parents love me so much.
Like I know that I'm theapple of my dad's eye.
My mom loves me, butdid they groom me?
100%. Well, they didn't know.
They didn't know theywere grooming me.
Mm-hmm.
But anytime I did something,well, they praised me.
Mm-hmm.
And so it taught methat I'm gonna get
praised when I do well,

Rick (42:12):
look at, look at your life system when you're a little kid.
If you're a good boy, who'sgonna come see you at Christmas.
Yeah.
Right.
Totally.
So, so what you're learning isgood, good gets rewarded.
Yes.
Before you ever get a job,good work gets rewarded.
Everything in this life worksto teach you that if you don't
perform, you're not rewarded.
Yeah.
Then God shows up and goes,there's nothing you can do

(42:33):
to make me love you less.
Nothing you can do tomake me love you more.
It's

Kayley (42:37):
so opposite.
That is the craziest thing,like heaven is upside down.
It is in the best.
He's like, no, like I'mfavoring you without
you performing for me.
And it was a, it's been along road of discerning who
was actually speaking tome, and I actually had to
break off some agreements.
I said, I, I break the agreementthat I can't hear God speak

(42:59):
to me, Satan Devil, you cango sit in the back because
you don't have any dominionover here and over me anymore.
Like my ears are clear, right.
And ready and presentto hear God speak to
me and man the Lord.
It is just the downloads Iget from God are beautiful and
they're subtle, and I do have toget quiet and I do have to stop
busying my surroundings there.

(43:22):
I have to remove the turbulenceI was actually reading.
Um.
In streams in the desert.
My favorite devotional,there's like a little
excerpt and it talks aboutthe dew on the grass.
Mm-hmm.
In order for dew tofall on the grass in the
morning, there cannot beany turbulence in the air.
No wind.
You can't have wind,you can't have rain.
It's gotta be still, andthat's what God's voice is
like getting still and lettingthe dew fall on the grass.

(43:45):
That's, and hearing him,that's, I've always thought
that analogy was so good.

Rick (43:48):
It is good.

Kayley (43:49):
Okay, moving on.
Alright, this is good.
ooh, this is really good.
Is it biblical to askGod for signs or is that
just immaturity or fear?

Rick (44:00):
It's gotta be biblical because men did.

Kayley (44:02):
They did.

Rick (44:03):
They did.

Kayley (44:04):
They sure did.
Uh,

Rick (44:04):
now.
Unfortunately for us, all thepeople who asked for signs
and didn't get a confirmation,their stories aren't recorded
because I'm sure that happened.

Kayley (44:13):
Yeah, that's, yeah, totally.
So the

Rick (44:15):
only ones recorded are the ones who said, Hey, wet
the Fleece, or Dry the fleece.
Yes.
And the fleece got dry.

Kayley (44:21):
Yep.

Rick (44:21):
Uh, you know, they, they got an answer again.
Here's our strugglewith scripture.
We read a story in scripture andwe immediately align it with our
life and, and kinda say, I claimthat it happened once, one time.
Mm-hmm.
In all of scripture, and yetwe want it to be our story.

(44:44):
Mm-hmm.
And there it's really notlikely that it's gonna be our
story because it only happened.
One time that thissign was confirmed.
Um, so, so although isit okay to ask for it?
Yes.
Don't hang your hat ineverything you have on it.
Go through those other things.
Does this align with God's word?

(45:05):
Is the Council of Godly peoplesaying this is gonna happen?
And is there peace inmy heart about this?
Go back to the things that,um, that we can cooperate with.

Kayley (45:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've, um, I've bulldogged Goda little bit with some things.
I'm like, Lord, especially Ijust keep saying, I don't wanna
talk about relationships and I'mcoming right back to this one.
But I was like, Lord, I'm notgonna make this mistake again.
I wanna be the next personI'm with is my husband like
that's, it just has to be thatway and I need you to tell me.

(45:36):
so now that you're gonna tellme that I meet my husband,
when I meet my husband,uh, what are you gonna do?
How are you gonna show it?
How are you gonna letme know I need a sign?
Mm-hmm.
I just bulldogging him and I'mlike, what's my sign gonna be?
Right?
And he gave me something and I,you know, maybe I heard wrong.
Maybe I didn't.
Maybe it is true and in faith,I'm just gonna Walk that out,

Rick (45:58):
watching for it.

Kayley (45:59):
I'm just kind of watching for it.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm claiming it.
and so, but I, I also thinkit's, it's kind of fun.
I think the Lord morethan anything just wants
relationship with us.
Uh, which is why Jesus cameand, and even just having
a conversation with him andholding his feet to the fire and
saying, Lord, like I want this.
Mm-hmm.
And I need you to tellme, and I'm willing to

(46:21):
hear you completely.

Rick (46:23):
Right.

Kayley (46:24):
I, I, I ask him for signs and I also tell people ask
for signs, especially 'cause Ithink we're so feeble-minded and

Rick (46:32):
weak-minded.
My, my only, and this wouldbe for my own life, my
own, you know, the heart ofman is deceitfully wicked.
Who can know it.

Kayley (46:39):
Yeah, it's true.

Rick (46:40):
I'll see my own signs.
Um, you know, I,I joke with Steph.
I've, I've wanted Corvette.
I don't want one anymore,but for a period of
time in my life I did.
And, and one would driveby and I would go, Hey
babe, there's a sign.
Because that's whatI wanted to see.

Kayley (46:59):
I know.
Yes.
People do get into that.
Yeah, I'm sure I've been there.

Rick (47:02):
Is that I see again, I pull my glasses out
to see what I wanna see.
Yeah.
Um, and look, all ofthe you, you can't,
you can't, you cannot.
And you cannot say, I will make.
My decisions basedonly on a sign.

Kayley (47:16):
No, no, no, no, no,

Rick (47:17):
no.
I will make my decisions.
No.
If I pray for a sign basedon the truth of God's word.
In other words, God says, Iwant you to fall in love with
this man who doesn't know me.
This isn't lining up.
No.
Although I got the sign.
Okay.
It's not lining upwith everything else.
No.
So if the sign lines upwith the truth of God's
word, the Council of Godlypeople, and the peace of God.
Then, you know,you can move ahead.

(47:37):
But if the sign, ifyou get the sign,

Kayley (47:40):
yes,

Rick (47:40):
and you'll have anything else, be careful.

Kayley (47:42):
That's, that's really good.
I'm glad you touched on thatbecause even though I feel like
I got a sign from the Lord orI know what sign to look for,
if the other things aren'tpresent, then it doesn't matter.

Rick (47:52):
That's true.

Kayley (47:52):
And so I'm glad you brought that up because
I think you're right.
People do get in their headof like, I want this, and
you can manufacture it.
If you wanna look for aCorvette, you are gonna see
all of them on the road.

Rick (48:03):
Everywhere.

Kayley (48:03):
Everywhere.
I mean, my ex's vehicles,anytime I see them, I'm
like, are they there?
Like I don't wannarun into them.

Rick (48:10):
Right?

Kayley (48:11):
Like, because you're just acutely aware of like
your surroundings when you'restarting to look for signs.
Right?
I'm really glad you said that.
That's really good.
Y'all are, listen, doyou have a question that

Rick (48:22):
I want you to get to?
I'm not sure if youwill, but we'll see.

Kayley (48:25):
There's a question on here you want me to get to?

Rick (48:27):
Mm-hmm.
It's about God's will.
You'll get to it.

Kayley (48:31):
Oh, why don't you just tell me.
It's the one

Rick (48:33):
about, uh, does God do hurtful things
when Hurtful things?
What?
Which one is that?
Oh,

Kayley (48:39):
Oh, can God's will include suffering,

Rick (48:42):
right?

Kayley (48:42):
Or was that a result of my disobedience?

Rick (48:45):
It, it, it can include suffering.

Kayley (48:48):
So we gotta talk about this then.

Rick (48:49):
Okay.
Okay.
So this was when my wife died.
Yes.
Uh, for those people wholisten to you don't know me,
my wife, my first wife diedin 2005, suddenly left me
with three small children andturned my life way upside down.
I got really angry at God just.
I got angry at everything, butI got really, really angry at
God because I asked the ageold question, do you love me?

(49:12):
Does God love me?

Kayley (49:13):
Yes.

Rick (49:13):
Can God do anything?

Kayley (49:14):
Yes.

Rick (49:15):
Well, if he loves me, why doesn't he stop this?
Mm. Either he's not powerfulenough to stop it or he
doesn't really love me.

Kayley (49:20):
Yeah.

Rick (49:21):
I don't know which one it is, but right now I'm
kind of mad about it all.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, I read a book,I, I fought this stuff and
I'm pastoring a church.
Right.
And, uh, read a book byMax Lucado with the title
of It's Not About You.

Kayley (49:39):
Yeah.

Rick (49:40):
And there's a chapter in there outta John nine where it
talks about the man born blindand the disciples say, why yes?
Was the man born blind?
Was it his sin?
Or his parents?
In Jesus said in theGreek, you are stupid.
He said, he said.
This man hurts.
Mm-hmm.
So that God will look good.

Kayley (50:02):
Yeah.
Oh wow.
For God's glory.

Rick (50:05):
All of a sudden I shifted from, um, God's not my best
friend riding around with me.
God is sovereign.

Kayley (50:14):
Yeah.
And if

Rick (50:14):
God looks at my life and says, I cripple you.
So that I look good.
Then I go and thank you, God.

Kayley (50:21):
Okay, now let's talk theology, because I also
was thinking recently God'swill started in the garden
and his will was for us tonot be around sin at all.
Sure.
To not have death.
Good to be

Rick (50:35):
heaven.

Kayley (50:35):
Yeah.
For, yeah, heaven.
So, and in heaventhere's no death.
There's no pain.
So that, would you saythat that is technically
God's original design yet?
Sin entered when the cursehappened, fall happened,
and now because of that,we deal with fallen nature
and the consequence of sin.
Sure.
Which is death.

Rick (50:55):
Yeah.
He uses all thingsright for his good.
So sin causes a manto be born blind.
God flips the script

Kayley (51:03):
mm-hmm.

Rick (51:04):
And uses it to make himself look good.
It's crazy.

Kayley (51:08):
But also he'll make you look good too.
'cause if you turn it inhis fav in your favor, he
will turn it in your favorif you give it over to him.

Rick (51:15):
Our struggle comes in to when God doesn't give sight.
In other words, you were bornblind, you're staying blind.
But God, I really wantedto make you look good by
this story ending well, sothere, there are a lot of
stories in scripture thatdon't end happily ever after.

(51:37):
We don't talk about 'ema lot, but they're there.

Kayley (51:39):
Well, I mean, I can name a few, but maybe give
me, gimme the one that you'rethinking in this context.
So,

Rick (51:43):
uh, old Testament, I just, uh, we just went through
this and now I can't remember.
It is the story of Hagar.

Kayley (51:52):
Oh yeah.

Rick (51:54):
The story of Hagar who life got so bad.
She ran away to try to get backto Egypt since she was on the
road, I believe to Shur Yes.
Yeah.
That's the road thatled back to Egypt.
Mm-hmm.
Trying to go home.

Kayley (52:06):
Mm-hmm.

Rick (52:07):
Trying to go home.

Kayley (52:08):
Yeah.

Rick (52:08):
And the angel says, Hey, why don't you go back
and endure the suffering?
Go read it.
You go back and you submitto that woman, it's making
your life miserable.
Whose name?
It is Sarah,

Kayley (52:21):
but at the same time, God said you
are gonna be blessed.

Rick (52:26):
Well, that's the second time she ran twice.

Kayley (52:28):
Oh,

Rick (52:29):
she ran twice.
First time shedidn't have a baby.
Second time, she has this,this baby who's now a teenage
son and he has made fun ofSarah's little baby, right?
Isaac And Sarah sees him.
Kind of persecuting him,making his life difficult.
It goes to Abraham andsays, you're gonna have to
get this woman outta town.
The Bible says that Abrahamwent in before dawn and

(52:53):
woke her and sent her away.
Mm.
And it also says this, thiswas very hard for Abraham
because, because it was his son.

Kayley (53:02):
Yeah.

Rick (53:04):
So he sends her away.
They're in themiddle of the desert.
They're gonna die.
The water ran out andthe bread ran out.
She puts Ishmael under atree to die and the scripture
says he began to cry out.
It doesn't tell uswhat he cried out.

Kayley (53:21):
Interesting.

Rick (53:22):
And she goes away 'cause she can't stand to hear it.
And the Bible says this.
Go read it.
It is amazing.
And God heard thecry of the boy.
Mm.
And he just opened hereyes to the well and stuff.
So that's the second time.
That's when your child'sgonna be a blessing.
Mm-hmm.
That's when you know I'mgonna make him a great nation.

(53:42):
That there was promise,but the story just ends.
We don't know if how,how, what happened to her.
Yeah.
Um, there are a number of ofstories that, of individuals.
Leah's story didn'treally end well.
No.

Kayley (53:56):
Poor Leah.

Rick (53:57):
Uh, so, so, but, but.
Something, especially inour American mind, makes us
think that if it's in theBible, it's like a fairytale.
Yeah.
And they all livedhappily ever after.
Yeah.
No, that is not true.
Paul's life, right?
The apostles, yeah.
All of their lives were like,like, and they got married
and had 16 kids and theywere all really wealthy and

(54:17):
their kids were all straightA students and one the
best athletes on the team.
That's what we pray for.

Kayley (54:24):
Uh, well we pray, you know, it's like if
you, you can gain the wholeworld and lose your soul.
Like, what, what good is that?

Rick (54:29):
But we want the whole world and not to our soul,

Kayley (54:31):
but yeah, we want both.
And so, uh, it'sreally interesting.
But God doesn't promiseus the whole world.
He does promise us peacethat passes understanding
though, and joy.
Mm-hmm.
And life abundant, but it'shis version of life abundant.

Rick (54:45):
Well, I, I think that, that my life experiences
and, and a couple of momentsof, I would call light
bulb moments spirituallyfor me, reset my theology.
Hmm.
I believe in a sovereignGod who does and can do
anything he wants, and hedoesn't have to go, Hey
Rick, is this okay with you?
Uh, he does.

(55:06):
Yeah.
My job is just simply togo, you're still my God.
Uh, at the same time I believethat he gives me free will.
Yeah.
They go, well, howdo you resolve those?
Not my job.
When it is my job, I've elevatedmyself to the position of God.

Kayley (55:20):
Yeah.
no,

Rick (55:21):
and, and so do I believe that, that you have free
will and God is sovereign.
I do.
I do.
And at the same time, Ibelieve it's God's will that
all men be saved and thatnot all men will choose him.

Kayley (55:32):
Yeah, it's true.

Rick (55:34):
so, so yes.
I was looking forward to thatquestion because that passage
in John nine is just so richwhen you think, you know,
how many years did this guyendure suffering for the simple
purpose to make God look good?

Kayley (55:47):
Yeah.
And, you know, I'm sure he, he,but he was so happy after Sure.
Because he got his sight.
Yes.
And then he was a miracle.
Right.
And it, it totallyupset the idea of like
generational curse as well.
And I think that wasa good thing for the
Jewish people to see.
Right.
Because for the longest timethey believed that Right.
The curse is from the father.
So there was so much to that.

(56:09):
To that miracle.
But man, this is reallygood and we're out of time.

Rick (56:13):
It's hard to believe it went by that fast.
I

Kayley (56:14):
know.
'cause there's so many othergood questions, but, uh, no,
this is so good and I just.
My prayer is that it goesout to all the right ears.
So if you're listening today andit hit you, please let me know.
Go to biblebish.com,send me an email.
Tell me, Hey, this actuallyreally set me on the next
track and it cleared up somethings that I'm dealing with.
And, um, thank youRick for coming.

Rick (56:37):
Oh, thank you for the invitation.

Kayley (56:38):
This is awesome.
I

Rick (56:39):
really enjoyed it and you can

Kayley (56:40):
listen to his messages too at the road, choctaw

Rick (56:43):
road.com,

Kayley (56:43):
choctawroad.com, theroad.tv on Spotify, iTunes,
all that other stuff, and gofollow along and then like,
and subscribe all the places.
You're amazing.
You, you be blessed.
May God bless you, keep you,may his face shine upon you and
all of that in the name of love.

Rick (57:03):
Thanks.
Amen.
Amen.

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How Do I Know God's Will For My Life? | Guest: Pastor Rick Sowell

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How Do I Know God's Will For My Life? | Guest: Pastor Rick Sowell