Brandon West - Founder of PHOS Creative

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In this episode of the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast, host Jason Woodard interviews Brandon West, the founder and Chief Purpose Officer of PHOS Creative. Brandon details his path from a university student pursuing classical studies to establishing a successful digital marketing agency. He discusses the trials he and his wife faced early on, including the loss of their mothers and raising a family while building a business. Emphasizing purpose-driven leadership, Brandon shares how integrating faith into the workplace has shaped his company culture and his own leadership style. He also reflects on the importance of intentionality, love, and faithfulness in leadership, and offers practical advice on balancing efficiency with empathy. Highlighting his own journey to faith and his spiritual practices, Brandon speaks on the transformative power of regular retreats and scripture reading. Additionally, Brandon shares insights from his book, 'It Is Not Your Business to Succeed,' which challenges leaders to measure success through faithfulness rather than outcomes.

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Episode Transcript

Jason (00:00):
Welcome to the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast.
I'm your host, Jason Woodard.
On this month's episode, we willmeet Brandon West.
Brandon is the founder and chiefpurpose officer of FOS Creative,
a strategy first digitalmarketing agency that has been
recognized on the Inc.
5000, Gator 100, and as a bestChristian workplace.

(00:23):
He's also a sought after speakerand the author of It Is Not Your
Business to Succeed.
A book that challenges leadersto redefine success beyond
outcomes and one that I highlyrecommend after reading it last
year.
Brandon is passionate aboutpurpose driven leadership,
building people first cultures,and integrating faith into the

(00:45):
workplace.
Beyond business, he serves as anelder at Salt Church, invests in
Christian leadershipdevelopment, and, most
importantly, strives to reflectChrist in all that he does.
Today, we'll dive into hisjourney of faith and leadership
and how he built a thrivingbusiness while keeping Christ at
the center and what it means tolead with purpose in today's

(01:07):
world.
So, Brandon, brother, welcome tothe show.
Thank you.

Brandon (01:11):
Jason, thank you so much, man.
We're gonna have a blast here.
Really excited about our timetogether.

Jason (01:15):
We will.
Hey, listen, Brandon, let's, uh,take us through how the Lord got
you from university throughearly career and where he has
you today.

Brandon (01:26):
Dude, my, my wife and I, I don't know, like we've just
experienced most of life atpretty young stages.
Like we're high schoolsweethearts out of Orlando,
Florida, came up to Gainesville,uh, to become a Gator and, uh,
graduated from the University ofFlorida.
We got married while we werethere as students.
We got married at 19 years old.

(01:48):
We had our first.
First kid at 21, our second kidat 24, and then started my
company at 26.
Um, we lost at this point of ourlives early on in our thirties.
We both lost our, our moms.
Um, like we just have beenthrough like all the things like
very young and early in life.

(02:08):
So hopefully, hopefully thatpoints to early maturation.
Um,

Jason (02:13):
So what, what was your, uh, major when you went to, uh,
university?
What was

Brandon (02:17):
Yeah, I remember meeting with a pastor in my
church.
And he's like, what do you, whatdo you want to do?
And at the time I was like, Iwant to be a pastor.
That's what I want to do.
And he's like, Oh, wow.
What are you studying?
And I was like, graphic design

Jason (02:28):
Perfect.
Well,

Brandon (02:31):
And I was like, what is that?
And he's like, that's Greek andRoman history, Greek and Latin
language.
I was like.
That I didn't even know that wasa thing.
That is John MacArthur's secretsauce.
Like I need to go do that.
And so I switched over toclassical studies, did a
emphasis in Koine Greek, whichis the Greek of the new
Testament, and did a minor inbusiness administration.

(02:52):
And from all of that came upwith the name of my company,
Phos Creative, which is theGreek word for light.
So I spent two and a half yearsat the university of Florida so
that I could come up with thatone word.
To guide to guide my company

Jason (03:06):
paid off.
It paid off.
So right out of school, what didyou do?
I, you didn't go create this newcompany.
What,

Brandon (03:12):
right out of school when I graduated a degree in
classical studies.
I remember one of the TAs toldme I had two options with my new
classical studies degree.
I could either go teach otherpeople what I just learned or I
could manage Barnes and Noble.
That was my option with a degreein classical studies.
So, um, I went and became ateacher.

(03:33):
I taught for four years at aclassical Christian school
called Cornerstone Academy.
And I taught Greek language andLatin language and algebra three
and yearbook and led the juniorclassical league.
Had a blast doing that as inlike grading homework and, um,
Helicopter parents.
Those were two very hard thingsabout being a teacher.
And so, uh, at the time I hadtaught myself graphic design and

(03:56):
websites and the small Baptistchurch that I was going to in
Micanopy, Florida, had a 94 yearold man managing the website and

Jason (04:04):
Oh

Brandon (04:05):
doing tech.
And I just asked, I was like,can I help?
And he's like, that would begreat sunny.
And so I rebuilt a website formy church.
Friends saw that.
Asked if I could do one for him.
I charged him 300 bucks.
Another friend saw that.
I charged him 3, 000 bucks.
And I was like, this is kind ofa business.
And so, went to five men in mylife who were my closest
counselors, elders, pastors inmy life.

(04:26):
And they were all unanimous.
All unanimous that I shouldsurrender my 18, 000 a year.
Jing salary and start foes, butyou know, they use the term like
golden handcuffs, like how hardit can be to like, once you have
a salary to like step away andtruly become an all an
entrepreneur, I don't care howmuch money you're making 18, 000
a year, 180, 000 a year, likeit's hard to step away from

(04:50):
predictive income.

Jason (04:51):
It's scary.

Brandon (04:52):
with five men affirming me, I stepped out in 20, 2013
and started the company.

Jason (04:58):
Okay.
And then I, what was your wife'sfeeling at the time?
I mean, obviously she wassomewhat supportive, but was she
nervous?
Super supportive?
A little bit not supportive.

Brandon (05:08):
You know, at that point, there was enough income
coming in from side projectswhere we were kind of curious,
like, wow, if I do this, like,what if we could make 36, 000 a
year?
Like, we would be rich.

Jason (05:22):
I don't know what I do with all the

Brandon (05:23):
Doubling our income.
And so there was kind of thislike hopeful, you know, I think
I can make this work.
What if we tried this?
It was an interesting yearbecause in 2013, when I stepped
away that summer, if I wouldhave kept teaching, my life
would have gotten so hardbecause my wife's mother was
diagnosed with cancer.
And over the next six months, wewound up just traveling back and
forth to Orlando over and overto care for her.

(05:46):
And she wound up passing awaythat December.
I could not have taught.
But I had this broken HP laptopthat I would bring down there
with me.
It's one of those ones where youhad to have it plugged in all
the time.
You know, it's like if

Jason (05:58):
Yep, battery last five minutes.

Brandon (06:00):
no, no, it was even worse.
It was like, if somebody came byand accidentally kicked it out,
it dies immediately and you loseall of your work for the past
three hours.
So I, that's where I built foes,man, was off of that broken HP
laptop that I praise God for.
That's.

Jason (06:15):
I was, so our oldest son owns his own business and he has
had that now for I think threeand a half years.
Maybe it'll be four years thiscoming, it's November or so.
Anyways, you know, I canremember, he was an entrepreneur
at heart when he was a kid anduh, and a rancher.
He's always been around cars andloved to work on cars.

(06:36):
So he did that right out of highschool.
He was working at shops, butalways dreamed of having his own
business.
So yeah, he was at the time, hewas married by the only been
married for a short time.
They didn't have any childrenyet.
And I remember he came to, youknow, my wife and I and asked us
our thoughts and his wife aswell.
And yeah, we're like, I remembertelling, I told him, my advice
to him was every year you wait,it'll get harder.

(06:59):
it's just going to get harderto, you know, to do it.
You're going to get it, youknow, more responsibility and
it's going to be higher riskbecause like you said, you walk
away from a steady check.
So, you know, if your wife issupportive and ready to take the
risk, go for it.
And they did.
And it's, and it's been reallygood.
He's successful and things aregoing well there for him.
So yeah, that's, that's theadvice I would have for

(07:21):
especially young, yeah, justyounger entrepreneurs do it

Brandon (07:25):
piece of advice.
You know, we say in, in, in theinvesting world, like the best
place to, the best time toinvest in the market was a year
ago.
Second best time is today.
Like, man, there's so manythings that's true for, you
know, like

Jason (07:38):
Yeah, yeah,

Brandon (07:39):
personally in our lives, like, Hey, the.
The best time to ask forforgiveness was the moment you
sinned against your spouse.
And the second best time isright now.
This is like, there's so manythings and entrepreneurship
certainly fits in that categoryas well.

Jason (07:52):
yeah, yeah.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour family, Brandon.

Brandon (07:55):
Yeah.
My, my wife and I have beenmarried now for almost 19 years
because of being married soyoung in life.
And, um, we have two boys.
Uh, I'm only 38 years old, butwe have a 16 year old almost
going, going on 17 and a 13 yearold son as well.
Both, both boys, man.
I just, I have a blast withthem.

(08:16):
This is such a fun, interesting,unique, challenging, beautiful
season of parenting as a dadbecause I'm learning in this
whole shift that they talk aboutof like, Hey, Early on, like
it's, it's mom and, and her, andher cub as she nurses them.
And like, there's, there'ssomething about that.
And then there's the disciplinestage.
And now we're in this like coachstage and I'm realizing like how

(08:40):
much time, how little time Ihave left to invest in my sons.
Even my wife and I are planningthis lifelong trip later this
year to Alaska.
And I was like, you know, if itdoesn't work now, we could do it
next year.
And she's like, Next year islike our last summer with our
kids and they talk about that.
I think there's like thismovement out there called like
18 summers and it's this wholeidea of like how little time you

(09:01):
have with your kids and likeusing that time to its fullest.
And I read a great book lastyear called, uh, the intentional
father.
by John Tyson.
Cannot recommend this bookenough.
What a beautiful picture of whatit looks like to intentionally
lead sons as, as a dad.
And,

Jason (09:18):
yeah, nice.

Brandon (09:20):
yeah, I've been a lot of really cool opportunities to
invest in them this past yearand implement a lot of that
manhood initiation ceremonies,man dates, daddy date nights
with my younger son, just reallybeautiful investment
opportunities.

Jason (09:32):
That's great, that's great.
I, uh, I never regret, so ourkids are, let's say, almost 30,
25, and uh, 19.
And, uh, yeah, I don't regretever, any of the time that we
went and did stuff and spenttogether.
I should have done more.
Um, I'm glad that I did as muchas I did.
I'm very glad that we have, uh,our oldest kids now are still

(09:55):
around.
So I was just, you know, textingmy oldest son today about some
stuff and, you know, he's, he'sstill is open to advice at
times.
So I give it when it's askedfor, and that's a huge blessing
to, to still pour into theirlives.
So that's good.

Brandon (10:08):
That's awesome, man.

Jason (10:09):
What about your faith, Brandon?
What's that look like?
How'd you come to know the Lordyoung kid, you know, it sounds
like maybe you were raised inthe church Tell us a little bit
about

Brandon (10:17):
Yeah.
I remember filling out anapplication once to, it was to
teach at this classicalChristian school that I met.
And it was like, tell us yourtestimony.
And I literally just quoted, um,uh, Titus chapter three.
Like I used to be, I used tohate other people and be hated
by men until the loving kindnessof God, my savior appeared in

(10:38):
Jesus Christ.
Christ, you know, I w I grew upmost of my life in what would be
by adjective in adjective form,a Christian household.
Um, but there wasn't a deep lovefor the gospel.
It wasn't any sense of missionor purpose or calling or love of
scripture or a discipline ofprayer or spiritual spiritual
rhythms in my household.

(10:59):
We would go, you know, kind ofCNE club, Christmas and Easter
and big events.
My mom was Catholic.
Um, but at one point, I think, Ithink what's so beautiful about
like the way God saved me wasthat, I really fell in love with
his disciples.
Like I fell in love with men wholooked like Jesus.

(11:21):
I fell in love with men who wereon fire for Christ.
And I remember at a Christiancamp that my dad sent me to
meeting a man who was drinkingsome joy juice that I wanted
access to.
I was like, man, whatever yougot going on in your life, like
I want it in mine.
And I started to see peers myage in a church, a youth group
that I started going to who wereon fire for Jesus.

(11:43):
And I was like.
These people are different.
And there was this realizationwhere I came to, it was like,
Either these people are superChristians and I'm just like a
nominal Christian or thesepeople are true Christians and
I've never tasted of trueChristianity and, um, I'm not a
huge fan of this, of thisauthor, but, uh, Rick Warren's
purpose driven life.

(12:04):
I read that book and God usedthat to absolutely radically
change my life.
I, in one of the first couple ofdays, it's like, write a letter
to God, surrendering your life.
And I was like, I don't, I don'thave a journal.
Like I've never done thisbefore.
And I just remember writing dearJesus, you know?
And I was like, I, I don't wantmy life anymore.

(12:24):
Like I want the life that youhave for me.

Jason (12:27):
Yeah,

Brandon (12:28):
think that that was like a moment of real repentance
of changing my mind and changingmy heart and surrendering and
saying God not not my lifeanymore And one of my favorite
verses in life 2nd Corinthianschapter 5 that Jesus came that
he lived and he died So thatthose who live me will be saved
would no longer live forthemselves, but for him who for

(12:49):
their sake died and was risenagain.
And so just that idea of beingfreed from, from self to live
for a greater purpose.
It's, it's interesting how muchpurpose has been a part of my
story and how God really unlockscalling and meaning in the
gospel and in our identity inJesus when we surrender our life
to him.

Jason (13:10):
that's so true.
Absolutely So to change, say itchanges your life is a such an
understatement, but it's a wholenew, right?
Cause you, you die and thenyou're risen.
You're, you're raised from thedead.

Brandon (13:23):
Yeah.
I think, you know, this wholeidea of like being a new
creation in Christ, I justremember early on in my
Christianity, like my, my desirestarted to change things that I
want things that I once loved.
I started to hate and thingsthat I once hated, like reading
my Bible, I started to love.
And all of a sudden the showsthat I wanted to watch the books
I wanted to read where I wantedto spend my time, like became
something so new because ofChrist at work inside of me.

Jason (13:46):
Yeah.
Brandon, how old were you whenthat, when that

Brandon (13:50):
16 years old.
So high school met my, my futurebride maybe only four to six
months after I made this radicalchange with my life.
And so I remember early on inour dating relationship being a
very different person.
She's like, she tells me now,she's like, if I would have
known you like a year or twobeforehand, I would have hated
you.
And I was like, I don't know.

Jason (14:13):
You, we wouldn't have been dating.

Brandon (14:14):
Yeah, absolutely.

Jason (14:16):
Uh, so, you know, you're a, you're a busy dad, you're a
husband, you're, uh, running abusiness.
Uh, what are your spiritualdisciplines look like to make
sure that you stay in growth andsanctification with the Lord?
What's that, what's that looklike for

Brandon (14:32):
Yeah.
I'm reading a really good bookright now by David Mathis called
Habits of Grace.
And in the front of this book,He had a quote.
It's, it's my, it's become myquote of the year.
So far this year, my, my word ofthe year is disciplines.
Maybe a simple way of sayinghabits of grace, but my quote of
the year from David that'shelped me really understand

(14:53):
disciplines and these spiritualrhythms and habits.
He said, I can turn on thefaucet, but I can't make the
water flow.
I can turn on the light switch,but I can't make the electricity
flow.
And I think spiritualdisciplines for me are just,
Hey, Brandon, go turn on thefaucet, go flick on the light
switch and ask that God's goingto make the water flow and make

(15:14):
the electricity happen.
So for me on a daily basis,getting into God's word, I am
doing a Bible in two years planright now, but I'm doing it with
my son.
and a man that he invited intothis equation, uh, probably my
best friend in the city.
And so every single day we'retexting each other in not just
like red.

(15:34):
I got it done.
Like, what'd you learn?
How did God challenge you?
How did he speak to you?
What prayers are you prayingthis morning?
And so every day getting thosetexts coming in is really
helpful.
I recently, as a result of myword of the year discipline,
resurrected a prayer board thatI've used in previous seasons of
my life, just in Trello, like acan ban system for managing

(15:56):
where having different focusesfor

Jason (15:58):
yeah.
Yeah.

Brandon (16:00):
um, consistently serving in my church.
I get to lead worship about oncea month, consistently attending
a connection group that my wifeand I get to host for young
married couples.
You know, it's, it's, it'sinvesting in God's mission.
Hearing from the Lord, listeningto the Lord, probably one of the
biggest disciplines that I'vechanged in my life the past five

(16:22):
or six years has been adiscipline of retreat.
I just posted on LinkedIn this

Jason (16:26):
I saw it today.
I saw it today.

Brandon (16:28):
six years ago, you would have asked me to like go
on a retreat.
I'm like, Why would I do that?
Retreats are for weak people.
They're for weak leaders, anexcuse for self indulgence and
golf and spa days.
But some of my peers reallychallenged me like, no, Brandon,
you, you should thinkdifferently about this.
And I was like, yeah, whatever.
And reluctantly, I went on myfirst retreat probably six years

(16:51):
ago at a Starbucks of allplaces, the worst place you
could possibly go for a retreat.
And I spent three to four hours,no tech, a pen.
Uh, a couple of books, my Bibleand a journal, and it was one of
the most like creative,inspiring, quiet moments that I
had had in months, even in apoor environment like that.

(17:11):
And it convinced me that retreatwas something really good for
us.
And so that's become a reallyimportant, consistent spiritual
discipline for me on a monthly,quarterly and annual basis.

Jason (17:22):
How does that, how does that look practically?
Like, what do you do and who doyou go with?
I've thought about that before,but you know, going off by
myself or with some, but yeah,I'm really interested in what
you're doing and what's workingfor you.

Brandon (17:34):
Most of the time, my retreat days are half days, so
each month taking one or twohalf days.
Eight to twelve, seven toeleven, something like that.
I start off with an extendedtime of prayer and scripture
reading.
I'm, I'm trying to spend moretime listening in those places

(17:54):
where silence and solitudebecome a a regular part of that
discipline of hearing from theLord.
It's hard.
It's hard.
You know, like my sheep hear myvoice.
Okay.
Which one is it in my head?
Um, because oftentimes theenemy, um, sounds a lot like the
Lord on my last retreat, I spentprobably an hour.

(18:15):
Conducting my own screw tapeletter, writing my own screw
tape letter, and it was dearWormwood, here's the best
tactics that you can use againstBrandon.
And just documenting all of theways that I see the enemy speak
into my life.
I, I don't have time for thatwhen I'm like trying to get my
Bible study in in the morning,get to work at 8 30 a.

(18:36):
m.
Clock out at 5 15, get home,make dinner, love all my family,
lead them well, really, youknow, I don't have time for
things like journaling and selflearning and maybe doing, um,
uh, like a self assessment, likeanother like disc or like a, uh,
something like that, likelearning about me learning about
what God's how God's wired me.

(18:58):
I usually go.
away by myself on theseretreats, but we actually
created, it's on my website,brandonmichaelwest.
com slash retreat hyphen guidebrandonmichaelwest.
com slash retreat hyphen guide.
We, I created a seven page guidefor my team to help them learn
how to retreat.
It was so interesting as Irolled this out, like, you know,

(19:20):
you ask the people around theroom, how many of you guys have
ever gone?
On a retreat just to get alone,silence and solitude.
Like the, the, the percentage ofpeople, even in Christian circle
is just so low.

Jason (19:30):
one, 5%, 1%.

Brandon (19:33):
for that.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
Like, this is something we haveto discipline ourselves for.
And I've just, by, by beingintentional, by submitting to
other leaders in my life, who Iwant to be like, who are saying
this is important to me, to you.
But me not agreeing.
Has been one of those thingsthat's just brought a whole new
level of, uh, spiritualawareness and, and a cool new

(19:54):
rhythm into my life.
So we, we give away that retreatfor free on my website.

Jason (19:58):
we'll put a link to it.
Where do you go?
Where do you go for your monthly

Brandon (20:02):
That's one of the hardest things to find because
Starbucks isn't a good place.
Um, uh, uh, a church, a prayerroom, um, a library.
One of my favorite ones is likea nice hotel lobby because
there's just, you can just findlike often a quiet space there.
It's modern.
It's like, well, it's, it's wellair conditioned.

(20:23):
There's maybe food right therefor you.

Jason (20:25):
some coffee.
Yeah.

Brandon (20:26):
Yeah.
But certainly if you're like anature person, find a friend who
has an arm like find a friendwho has an Airbnb.
And they're like, is itavailable?
Is it free?
I'm not, I won't even sleep init.
Can I just sit out on the porchsomewhere like find finding
those quiet spots out in nature?
I love to just set up a hammock.
Hammocking is life for me.
Um, I love to just lay in a goodhammock for a couple hours, read

(20:49):
journal, think, listen, go on awalk.
Those are great options.

Jason (20:54):
Nice.
Good.
That's good advice.
That is really good advice.
I have, uh, for several years,there's a close, close friend of
mine who he's, we, we don't livenear each other anymore.
Um, an hour or so away, but longenough, far enough where we
don't see each other.
But every fall for severalyears, we've gone and did a, a
two day camping.
It's, you know, it's a retreatreally.

(21:15):
We both, he's a, he's a fulltime pastor.
You know, I'm, he used to be mypastor until we moved away from
that area.
But just to get away and, youknow, cook over a campfire and
talk and walk, we go hiking andit is so refreshing.

Brandon (21:30):
My latest retreat was my first one ever to go with
other people and a group thatI'm a part of C12, a faith
center, peer advisory forum.
We met up with a bunch of themen in that group early on a
Friday morning.
Spend an hour or so in Biblestudy together and then just
went and separated for the nextthree hours in just different

(21:52):
spots all over this beautiful,uh, watery lakeside house.
And then came back together, didlunch together, pay anything you
want to share, anything the Lordwas doing inside of you during
that time and getting to hearfrom each other on, on those
things, not creating pressure.
You know, I think it's like, ifyou just think every retreat is
going to be, you getting thisbig diamond from the Lord, like

(22:12):
sometimes it's just the sweetbeauty of being reminded of the
love of God for me and Jesus.
Like those are awesome retreat.
I need that just as much as Ineed God downloading the next 10
years of my life.
But honestly, I think it's thatthe consistency of doing so,
where we can more clearly hearthat voice of the shepherd in,
in our life and just, Likegetting alone, just knowing God,

(22:32):
if you want to download anythingto me, my hands are wide open
and I want, I just want to knowyou better.
That's, that's eternal life toknow God.

Jason (22:39):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've gotten a lot betterover the last several years of
just doing that in the morning.
Really having a truedisciplined, quiet, like
literally a quiet time, youknow, and it's, it's been, let's
say it's, you know, spirituallybeen life changing for me and
it's, uh, That's incredible.
So yeah, I've thought about,yeah, more monthly, quarterly,
doing things like that.
So that's, I'm going to checkthat out.

(23:00):
I'll link to that.
I'll link to that guide.
Hey, Brandon, when you, I wantto talk about leadership a
little bit here.
I know that you think a lotabout it and you're really, um,
you know, you try to be veryproactive in your leadership
with your team.
You, you, and I've, LinkedIn.
We've gotten to know each othera little bit.
And so I want to hear from you.
What are your, like coreleadership principles when you

(23:22):
think about whether it's at workor at home that you just always
go back to that you build, youknow, kind of your foundation

Brandon (23:27):
Yeah.
Intentionality, love,faithfulness, generosity, and
character.
Those, those five things, thoseare my personal core values in
life.
I think they guide everything inmy life.
Not only In the workplace, butalso at home.
What does that look like?
When I shared my personal corevalues with my team recently,

(23:48):
the one that was, they were mostcurious about was the core value
of intentionality.
I spoke about John Tyson's, theintentional father.
I think everything in my lifethat is healthy.
is built off intentionalrhythms.
I was hanging out with a friendrecently and I just said to him,
I was like, Hey, I, I just wantto present this idea to you.
If this would be a delight.
Great.
Let's do this.
If not, I feel like you're superbusy or this is another thing to

(24:10):
add to your schedule.
Like I am okay with you justsaying no, but I would love to
build our friendship more.
I would love to really invest inour friendship more and
eternity.
Like he was like, that would besuch a delight to me as well.
And he said, all we need to dois find the right rhythm.
And I was like, I guess I guessI guess it is that easy.
I guess that's it.
And I said out loud of somethingat that moment that I've never

(24:32):
said out loud before.
I just said, Yeah, I guessyou're right.
Everything in my life that ishealthy.
is on a rhythm and everythingthat is not on a rhythm is not
healthy.
And so I think some of thethings that guide me, how do we
bring love into the workplace?
I'll, I'm doing a talk inGainesville next week, uh, all
about, it's called love in theworkplace.

(24:52):
And you know, so much of our, ofour culture, at least growing up
in the management culture of thepast was like love, emotions,
all that squishy stuff thatdoesn't enter the workforce.
I think our culture is shiftingon that.
But I think for us as leaders,as we've shifted and begun to
embrace that, we need to ask thequestion, what does
intentionality look like as Itry to create a culture and
foster culture and be myself theleader of a culture of love and

(25:16):
the workforce.
And one of the big things thatfrom a leadership discipline
standpoint that it requires ofme.
is slowing the heck down.

Jason (25:24):
Yeah.

Brandon (25:25):
Like, my wife says, like, there's two versions of
Brandon.
It's either like, like thegentle, loving, intentional
leader, Brandon, or it's thewhat she calls efficient mode.
Brandon,

Jason (25:36):
Oh,

Brandon (25:36):
and it's so like, Those two things, efficiency and love,
even in my life and leadership,they're opposed to one another.
Like, I cannot coexist inefficient Brandon and loving
mode Brandon.
I just can't.
I have to slow way down.
I have to stop and askquestions.
I have to connect with people ona personal level.
I have to care about what'sgoing on in their life.

(25:57):
I take a discipline.

Jason (25:58):
so, it's so inefficient.

Brandon (26:00):
Love it's so inefficient.
It really is, dude.
Yeah, it's, um, my, my familyand I, we really enjoy watching
a show from the early twothousands as a family called
monk.
It's a story of like this, likesuper ADHD, OCD, um, cop.
And like, he's because he has somany needs with his OCD.
He's very like self focused.

(26:21):
Well, the other day we werewatching an episode and his
assistant was going through areally hard time in life.
And he turned and said somethingthat was like, Shocking.
I mean, usually you can feellike the air gets sucked out of
the room as we're watching theshow.
He turns and he goes, Hey, isthere anything that I can do to
serve you?
And we're all thinking like,he's never said this before.
It was like a dot, dot, dotmoment.

(26:43):
Cause he goes, is there anythingI can do to serve you or help
you?
That wouldn't be inconvenientfor me.

Jason (26:49):
That's great.

Brandon (26:50):
Like love requires self inconveniencing and it is so
hard.
It is so hard last night cominghome.
A long day at work.
I, I went and had to drop off myson at something.
He realized he forgot something,had to drive back, drive it over
to him.
I'm driving home.
I'm like, I just want to go homeand cook a really nice dinner.
dinner.
I go into Publix 10 minutes oftrying to check out because this

(27:11):
gift card is crashing thesystem, other system.
And I go home and I'm like, allright, great.
I'm going to cook a nice dinner.
It's going to be a great time.
And my family's like, Hey, youforgot to unload the dishwasher
in the morning.
And as a result, it's still notunloaded.
And there's a giant pile ofdishes from the whole day.
And it was so hard in thatmoment, emotionally for me to
go.
I need to slow down.
Love is inefficient.

(27:31):
It's about inconveniencingmyself.
And I got, I got into a reallyhard place emotionally while I'm
doing this, trying to recoverafterwards.
Like, this is what loverequires.
It requires that self sacrifice.
I'm learning it at home.
I'm learning it at work.
I want to be that leader for thepeople I'm around, but it
requires a slowing and aninconveniencing and a commitment
to inefficiency.

Jason (27:51):
it does.
And I, I am wired to beefficient.
I love being efficient and Ihave to remind myself of that.
I mean, it's, yeah, you canbuild it.
Yeah.
And then the K what you call therhythm, the cadences.
And your life when you put thosein the right things in place and
put them in your calendar and beintentional.
I've tried to be intentionaland, you know, spending time,

(28:12):
but we have one son still athome, you know, booking some
time each week.
Just, we're just going to hangout on that evening, whatever
you want to do, you want towatch something, you want to
play a game.
But if you don't, if you're, Ilove that thought of
intentionality, because if not,it's reactivity, I think is
almost the

Brandon (28:27):
Mm.
Yes.

Jason (28:28):
just going to wake up and follow whatever.
thing is the biggest crisis inmy, and I think any business
leader, we know that's not good,right?
We know that that's wherebusinesses get into a state of
chaos, but I think we let it inour, in our personal lives, our
spiritual lives, where we don'tbuild that intentionality, that
rhythm in there to make surethat we're doing it's what we go

(28:50):
to church every Sunday.
We know that as believers, howimportant it is.
And, you know, we stick to thatdiscipline.

Brandon (28:55):
As leaders.
As leaders, if we think thatevery ministry opportunity and
every love opportunity is justgoing to come knocking on our
door, we will, we will fallexceedingly short on our
opportunities actually inreality available to us as
leaders to be intentional, toask the right questions, to
circle back with people, to readthrough the lines, to ask

(29:16):
questions like, you didn't seemlike yourself today.
Is everything okay?
Like, what's going on?
Those are the doors to gospeland care and love and ministry.
And they only come withintentionality.
Every morning when I walk intothe office, I'm there before
everybody do my Bible studytime.
They walk in, they see mesitting there reading my Bible.
When, when work starts andeverybody's there at their desk,
I just go around, just get up.
I just, I just get up.

(29:37):
I walk around the office.
I greet every single person byname, give them a hug, check in
with them.
Everyone by one, just around theoffice.
That's so inefficient.
Like I could,

Jason (29:45):
That's so inefficient.
You're making me like, Oh, Ican't, but it's right.
It's

Brandon (29:50):
every single time we join a zoom call, I go through
the zoom tiles and I welcomeevery single person by name.
I want them to feel known, lovedand valued and seen as a person.
Not just thank you team.
Welcome.
No.
Hey Janelle.
So good to see you today.
Derek.
Welcome to the call, buddy, man.
I love you.
You know, just like how do wehelp people feel loved on the
call?
It takes slowing down.

Jason (30:11):
I, I gotta remind myself of that all the time because I
get, I do, man, I work in opera.
You know, I, I think it wasJohn, I think John Maxwell and
one of his leadership books, youknow, said walk through the
crowd slowly, you know, justtake the time to stop and talk
and just, you know, I'm goodabout saying, Hey, how you
doing?
Good morning.
While I'm moving, I just keepmoving.
Instead of, you know, maybe stopand ask them, you know, and,

(30:34):
and, and if they actuallyrespond and want to talk, it's
okay.
Don't roll your eyes.
You can like take the

Brandon (30:40):
Yeah, dude.

Jason (30:40):
Yeah.
To do that.
So that's, yeah, that's superimportant.
Hey, as a young leader, uh,Brandon, I always like to talk
about this cause you know, I'm,I like to think that this
podcast helps other leaders.
That's the whole idea here.
So when you were a young leader,what was something that you
struggled with?
And you know, what have you doneto manage through that?
Have you overcome it?

(31:02):
talk to us a little bit aboutthat.
That's

Brandon (31:06):
young leaders, like we can often struggle with an
imposter syndrome, like how am Iqualified to lead this?
Am I even really a leader?
I don't have a director title orhead ahead of business title.
I don't have a C suite E E leveltitle.
I think what I've learned a lotabout leadership over the past
20 years of studying it and nowwriting about it and speaking to
thousands of people about thisleadership.

(31:29):
All it is, is influence and wesay at first, like everyone's a
leader.
The only way that we canauthentically say that that is
true is because every singleperson has influence.
You have influence when you walkhome.
And into your home with yourfamily, with your extended
family, you have it in yourconnection group, you have it in
your church, you have it withyour friend group, you have it
among your peers at your office,like leadership is just

(31:52):
influence.
I remember we, we shut down thebusiness every year for two full
days and take them to the globalleadership summit.
I remember doing a debrief withour team afterwards, and one of
the people on our team shared inthis debrief, she's like, it's
towards the end.
And finally, like, you know,people are starting to be honest
and finally like fully open upas, as a room typically does.
And she just goes, let me justbe honest for a minute.

(32:12):
If I'm being honest, like Iwalked into that room, not
believing that I was a leader.
And I walked out of that roombelieving that I was.
And I think I thanked her for,for sharing that.
And I said, I said, Alison, allyou learned the last two days is
what everybody else already knewwas true about you.
You are a leader.

(32:32):
You are a leader worthfollowing.
You set the pace for us in theseways.
Here are your gifts and callingsthat you bring to the table.
Leadership is influence.
And so I, I think to the youngleader to just go, Hey, How
could you leverage yourinfluence even when you lack
authority?
Clay Scroggins wrote his firstbook, this yellow cover, How to

(32:52):
Lead When You're Not in Charge.
How to lead when you're not incharge.
And the subtitle is how toleverage influence when you lack
authority.
That is what leadership lookslike for you in this season.
I don't, I don't lead everythingI'm a part of in life, right?
I lead foes.
I get to walk in, I can shotcall all day long, whatever I
want to do.
That's not true of every area ofmy life and leadership.

(33:13):
And so even, even for us asleaders, like we're leading and
being led, we're leading andbeing led in each of those
environments, I'm just trying tobring.
By God's grace, some level ofcharacter, some level of, of a
willing heart and a servantheart and my gifts to the table.
I remember when I had my firstever meeting with the pastors
that I'm, I'm a part of now thegroup of pastors I'm part of at

(33:34):
the church I go to, I justwalked in, um, this is years ago
and I just had this sheet ofpaper and it went over Michael.
Michael, um, Hyatt's desirezones, which are like this full,
this two by two quadrant of whatare you gifted at?
You're highly proficient at, ornot proficient at, and then what

(33:54):
are you passionate about or notpassionate about?
And so I'm high passion, highcompetence, my desire zone, my
low competence, low passion,drudgery zone.
And it's had these four zones.
And I was like, here's what Ilove to do.
And I'm passionate about, andI'm good at, Here are things
like, don't put me in children'sministry, low, low passion, low
competence.

(34:15):
Those four areas are what we canwalk in and just go, Hey, here's
what I'm gifted at.
Use me however you want.
Like all of a sudden you'regoing to get called on to lead.
You're going to get called on toleverage that influence to, to,
to, to lead and to love otherpeople, young leaders.

Jason (34:30):
Yeah.
No, that's good.
I think, uh, yeah.
It reminds me of this saying,again, this is a John Maxwell
quote, leadership is influence,nothing more, nothing less.
And, and I think that we doforget, even if we're not in a
leadership position, as you weretalking through that, I think
that people on, I have a team,some are individual contributors
at work and some are not, buteven the individual

(34:51):
contributors, I've tried tocommunicate that, that you are,
you are a leader, you're aleader in this operation.
People look to you, you haveinfluence.
some of its relationshipinfluence, some of its technical
expertise influence, butabsolutely.
So, you know, what are you, whatare you doing with that?
Right.

Brandon (35:07):
Right.
That's, that's the question.
What are you doing with yourgifts, your talents and your
opportunities at hand?
If someone is not a leader, it'snot because they lack an
opportunity or a title.
It's because they're notchoosing to lead.
They're not choosing to pursue acharacter.
Being, being first a leaderworth following with your

(35:30):
character.
That's the first part, be aleader worth following your
character.
They're not choosing that.
And then they're not choosing tobe open, honest, vulnerable, and
sharing with the things thatthey've been given, that they've
been taught, that they'velearned, that they've been
mentored in with other people.
All of a sudden that characterand that influence is the heart
of leading other people.

Jason (35:50):
Hey, another question for you, Brandon.
So the team you lead, you'rethe, you're the founder, you're
the, you're the big cheese.
So you kind of can do what youwant.
Right.
But how, but I also know thatyou have people on your team who
aren't believers and you servecustomers who aren't.
ministry organizations, how doyou practically, how do you
honor Christ through the workthat you do at FOS?

(36:12):
Both with your team and thenalso with your customers.

Brandon (36:16):
I believe that this whole concept of a Christ
honoring business happens in twodifferent ways.
On the one hand, there is asense in which I'll quote Martin
Luther here, where he said, youdon't have to put a Christian
fish on your shoe to be aChristian shoemaker.
Like God is honored in yourexcellence.
But the truth is, as much as Ibelieve that that's true, I want

(36:37):
to do excellent work, Godglorifying work, honoring the
Lord in the quality ofeverything that we provide at my
agency.
There is also this othercomponent that goes, Hey, I
don't know if I'm just like whenI started my company, I don't
know if I just wasn't a goodenough logo designer, but nobody
ever looked at my logos andwe're like, What must I do to be
saved?
This logo is so good.

(36:58):
What must I do to be safe?
That just didn't happen.
In my life.
Yes.
Be ready to make a defense forthe hope that within you.
But the truth is we, we can domore than just excellent work at
FOS.
Our mission is to cultivate trueflourishing in people and
organizations while reflectingthe love of Jesus to the world.
We call our business model.

(37:20):
That's not some lifestylebusiness, some high growth
EBITDA like we call our businessa business as a ministry, a
business that functions as aministry and we get to express
while, while doing excellentwork at the same time, we get to
express care, love, ministry,and evangelism to five groups of
people that we really care aboutat FOS, our team members, their

(37:42):
families, our clients, our ourvendors and suppliers, and then
our local and global community.
And for those five groups ofpeople, we want to care for
their physical needs, theiremotional needs, and their
spiritual needs.
Those five groups in those threeways create a 15 cell matrix, if
you will, that we call ourstrategic plan for ministry.

(38:03):
And we have a team at foescalled our care team.
Who's this voluntary team atfoes who, whose mission is to
create a culture of care, love,and ministry across the whole
company.
And so they voluntarily meet upto kind of guide those efforts.
You know, you, you joked aboutme being the big cheese in my
company.
The truth is, I feel very, um,indebted to the people I lead

(38:24):
alongside of early on in thecompany.
Oh, Brandon, you built a greatcompany.
Maybe that was true because itwas so small, but at this point,
I'm like, There are leaders atthis company who I find myself
very.
accountable to to set a cultureand a pace of purpose and care
and love and ministry.
And I've raised up this team ofpeople who's really passionate
about doing it.

(38:45):
Now, the question is whathappens when you have somebody
on your team who maybe likefaith, Christianity, Jesus, like
That's not a part of theirstory.
That's not a part of who they'vebeen and who they are at this
moment.
I had a really interestingonboarding experience with a new
team member.
At one point three hours ofgoing through mission and
purpose and ministry and allthat kind of stuff, here's,
here's where welcome to theteam.
This is what you're part of.

(39:06):
He was like, can I ask aquestion?
I said, that's what I'm herefor, man.
What, what's your question?
He said, Do we only hireChristians here at FOS?
I said, first of all, no, thatwould be illegal.

Jason (39:16):
Right.
Yeah,

Brandon (39:18):
we want to invite people into this mission and
everyone should have a place atthis table.
And he was like, phew.
And I was like, why, why, why doyou ask that man?
And he's like, I sent my family,our website.
And the first thing they textedme back was, did you see that
they have Jesus on their aboutpage?
And I was like, dude, how didyou answer that question?
And he said, if our mission isabout exemplifying the love of

(39:41):
Jesus in the workforce, I see inthis historical figure, a love
that is worth exemplifying tothe world.
And so if that's our mission, Ican be on board for that.
And I turned around and I said,That is why I hired you.
I see, I see that in you andthat love.
And we're trying to make a seatfor anyone at the table to walk
in while they know, Hey, there'sthis very missional component.

(40:03):
We're going to pray at teammeetings.
We're going to have prayerpauses that are voluntary that
you can come to.
We're going to do devotionals atour quarterly vision meetings
where I'm going to set a visionthat starts with God's word.
We're going to, we're going tobring care, love, and ministry
to you.
To your family, vendors,clients, suppliers, and the
local global community.
We're going to invite you intoall of those things.

(40:24):
That's an invitation rather thanan obligation afterwards.

Jason (40:28):
yeah, yeah.
That's great.
I love how you're, I mean, justit's fascinating and exciting
and, uh, that you're, you'reable to integrate it that deeply
into the organization and, youknow, love on people that come
that, uh, you know, aren'tChrist followers, uh, yet, you
know, whether or not he evercalls them to that point, but
that you can, you know, workbeside them and with them and

(40:49):
they get to see, they get to seehow you lead and how the other
believers in the organizationwork and act.
And that's, that's amazing.

Brandon (40:58):
You know, I'm confident that our influence and what
God's doing through us asleaders and then these
businesses that try to functionfor the glory of God, like
there's always more stories thanwill ever.
Here about in this life, but oneof the people on my team,
Janelle Cruz, um, an amazingperson.
She's, she was with me for threeyears at the beginning of her

(41:18):
career, those first three years,you know, Hey, come to this
Bible study.
Hey, come to this connectiongroup thing.
Hey, come and join me on Sunday.
Hey, you want to read this book?
And there's just no, no, no, no,that's not, that's not where I'm
at.
No, I don't want to do that.
No, no.
She goes through our leadershipdevelopment program.
It's a three year program, uh,focused on leading self, leading
others and leading anorganization as an executive.
And in the, in the first set ofthe curriculum in the final

(41:40):
month, there's a month thatfocuses on purpose.
And she had to give a, a talk onpurpose to the team.
And I remember checking in withher and going, Hey, where are
you at on this?
Uh, have you got your like themeselected?
You ready for this talk thatyou're going to give?
She's like, I have some ideas,but honestly, I'm really lost.
And I was like, well, what doyou think your purpose is?
And she's like, I just don'tknow.

(42:01):
And I said, okay, well, what arethe things that you're
passionate about?
She shared a few things with me.
And I just, I looked her in theface.
I said, Hey, I just want you toknow that if God is not real.
And none of the things that youjust mentioned are of any value
in this life.
And with, with tears in hereyes, she turned to me and she
said, then how do I know God?
And I bought her a MacArthurstudy Bible, tabbed out the book

(42:22):
of James, the first book I everread as a Christian, the, the,
the gospel of John.
And I handed it to her and said,this is where I would start.
And a month later, she was.
baptized in our church.
And three months, three monthslater, she was serving in
children's ministry.
And so what does it look like tojust be faithful to use the
convictions that you've beengiven as, as a leader, the
things that you love to leadpeople in and how do you invite

(42:43):
other people into that sharingvulnerably your story, being,
being the chief repentingofficer in your company, setting
a pace for what godliness andholiness and a love for Jesus
looks like a love for the gospeland for other people.
And maybe, maybe we could be,maybe By God's grace, that
fragrance of Christ, even in theworkplace as a leader, not

(43:04):
because we're getting everythingright, doing everything perfect,
but because we're relying on agood, loving, steadfast,
faithful God who's, who'sleading us to be more like him.

Jason (43:14):
Yeah.
That's good, man.
I love it.
I love that story.
Uh, I want to talk about who youfollow for authors and how you
keep yourself sharp.
But before we do that, sopodcast, authors, I want to talk
about your book because Andthat's not why you, I invited
you on the show.
I want people to know thatBrandon didn't come to me and
say, I want to be on your show.
I want to tell everybody aboutmy book.

(43:34):
That was not it.
I was connected to Brandonthrough a mutual friend who also
recommended your book and I readit and I loved it and I've read
a lot of business and leadershipbooks over the years and I think
you talked about some things.
that people, I've never readbefore, but are absolutely
biblical, a hundred percent.
And in fact, when I read yourbook, a, um, a former mentor of

(43:58):
mine, someone I highly respectin my, um, line of work had
recently, um, lost their job.
And this is someone who I just,a tremendous amount of respect.
And obviously that's a tough,Tough, uh, time to go through.
And so I, I gifted him yourbook.
So I sent that to him throughthe ease of Amazon.
But, um, talk a little bit aboutthat.
Cause I, I would reallyrecommend Christian business

(44:19):
leaders, uh, pick it up and readit.
I think it's, it's a, it's amust read.
So can you give us a kind of asummary of what the content is?

Brandon (44:28):
The title of the book is it is not your business to
succeed.
It's based on a CS Lewis quotein his, um, collected letters
called letters to Malcolm.
He writes to his friend and hesays, Hey Malcolm, it is not
your business to succeed, butonly to do what is right.
And then to entrust the resultsto a faithful God.
And I think for me, um, Iremember when I was writing the

(44:50):
book, my, my publisher said,Hey, you need to write a
foreword.
I was like, I hate forewords.
Nobody reads those things.
He goes, you need to write aforeword.
I was like, fine, what do Iwrite about?
And he said, write why you wrotethe book.
Why did you write this book?
And I remember a time when mywife was reading through it for
the first time where shecommented on this Google doc and
she highlighted this section andshe commented and she said, wow,

(45:10):
babe, so good.
Mic drop.
Can I remind you of this later?
The truth is I wrote this bookbecause I need it.
What I need to be reminded ofconstantly is that my sense of
success in life, my sense ofworth and identity.
is not tied to the things that Iso naturally tie them to.

(45:32):
Who are the leaders that weexalt in society?
It's the people who made a bunchof money, sold out this big
business, won this award, didthis thing.
And those can be platforms forgood and for the gospel and for
promotion and advertising andall those kinds of things.
But when I start tying my senseof success and worth as a leader
to those things, I put myselfinto a place.

(45:53):
of fear.
As soon as I tie something thatI can lose to my sense of
identity and purpose and worth,I'm going to live constantly in
a place of fear, wondering,well, who would I become?
Who would I be?
What value would I have if Ilost on the blank?
There isn't we, we, we, in thebook, I refer to it as the
outcome based mindset.
The outcome based mindset says,I am what I build.

(46:16):
I am my outcomes, thefaithfulness mindset.
On the other hand, it's notabout outcomes.
It's where Jesus says, welldone, good and faithful servant.
You've been faithful and little.
I can entrust you with muchenter into the joy of your
master.
Faithfulness is not aboutoutcomes.
Faithfulness is actually abouttrusting God, being who God's

(46:36):
called me to be, doing thethings that God's called me to
do, and then trusting God forthose outcomes.
What a freeing mindset.
When I'm in that place in mylife and leadership, what
freedom I feel, what peace Ifeel to just know, God, I'll do
what you've asked me to do.
You do what you, whatever youwant on the other side

Jason (46:55):
Yeah, that's right.
Even if it's not, even if it'snot fun or even if it's some
suffering or even if it's, youcan, I don't know.
I love the book.
I loved it because I have toremind myself of that all the
time.
I mean, I'm a numbers datadriven, you know, you want to
know what a good day is for me.
That's when everything wentright at work.
That's right.
But, but was I faithful?

(47:15):
And I had, I do have, since I'veread that book, I remind myself
of that more.
So, yeah, go in, be faithful.
Were you faithful today?
And if you were faithful, thenyou can lay your head down at
night.
Now, not perfect.
We'll never be there, but werewe faithful in what God called
us to do?
And were we faithful even in theoutcomes weren't what we wanted?

(47:36):
Well, we'll go be faithfultomorrow again and know that,
you know, God is sovereign and,you know, in all things, He has
good in store for those thatlove Him.

Brandon (47:45):
mmm, so good Jason.
Somebody texted me a picture theother day of their desk and
underneath their desk they had asticky note attached to it and
all it said is Faithfulnessequals success.

Jason (47:55):
Yeah,

Brandon (47:56):
that's that's it right there.

Jason (47:58):
that is good.
So, who do you listen to?
Who do you read?
Tell us, tell us, uh, who youwould recommend that we, that we
follow to keep our leadership,um, senses sharp.
Oh,

Brandon (48:13):
on Patrick Lencioni Um, I, I remember, I remember the
first book I ever read by him,

Jason (48:20):
This is, today I got, this was given to me today, so
this is on my reading

Brandon (48:24):
dude, I read, I think the first book I ever read for
him by him was the fourobsessions of an extraordinary
executive, either that or thefive dysfunctions of a team.
I read it on a cruise.
I got back from the cruise and Iordered every book he had ever
written.
And as soon as he comes up witha new one, I always buy it.
He's such a great leadershipguy.

(48:44):
Um, he really understands eventhe advantage is like this idea
of like.
If we believe that culture eatsstrategy for breakfast, Jim
Collins, then how might westructure our entire advantage
and systems and processes allaround that particular advantage
if we, if actually true and howorganizational health trumps

(49:04):
everything else in business.
So I'm a big Patrick Lencionifan.
I've become.
Big, um, Clay Scroggins fan.
I meant, I mentioned his book,um, uh, how to lead when you're
not in charge.
John Tyson's the intentionalfather.
Honestly, I read from aplurality of sources and I've
always got a book foreverything.
Um, I want to put out kind of mytop books of all time.

(49:26):
I've got a strong list thatI've, that I've, that I've been
working on now for, for manyyears.
Um, to be honest though, like Ijust want to be consistent in
my, in my reading.
Um, If you read one book amonth, you become in like the
top 10 percent of all readers inthe entire planet.
I just want to be faithful.
I just want to be consistent.
I just want to make sure I'm,I'm getting poured into my

(49:48):
people that I know, like, andtrust at the beginning of the
year.
I try and set like, here are my12 books I'm going to read this
year.
If something pops up in themiddle or wind up hating one,
it's hard for me to abandon abook emotionally, really.

Jason (50:00):
It is

Brandon (50:00):
I was, I was, I was told recently at a leadership
conference, start a ton ofbooks, finish good ones and
reread the great ones.
I want, I want to

Jason (50:09):
Yeah.

Brandon (50:10):
of leader.

Jason (50:11):
Yeah.
My, and you can't see it.
It's you have your bookshelfbehind you.
Mine's this way, but I'm, andI've read over, you know, over
my life.
I'm a reader.
I love reading.
And, um, But the ones on mybookshelf, I mean, I probably
only have 18, 12 or 18, butthose are the best I've ever
read.
And oftentimes I'll either thumbback through them or I'll give

(50:31):
them away.
Um, but yeah, yeah, those arethe life changers for me.
So no, I appreciate, Iappreciate that recommendation.
Lencioni, have you ever met him?
Have you had a chance to meet

Brandon (50:41):
Um, I got to hear him speak once, um, but I'll
actually be, um, a part ofintroducing him at the C12
current 2025 conference in Maythis year.
So that's going to be that.
Blast and

Jason (50:53):
Okay.

Brandon (50:54):
excited about that.

Jason (50:55):
So you probably get to meet him, I'll bet, at

Brandon (50:57):
I have basically demanded that as payment for my
master of ceremonies duties.
Um, so if they come through,I've also requested goldfish,
um, one real one and one bag of,uh, like food goldfish.
There was a bunch of things inmy rider.
Um, we'll see if they actuallycome through on any of them.

Jason (51:15):
That's hilarious.
I want to see a picture of youand Patrick on LinkedIn.
That's what I'll be, I'll bepraying that you can do that.
I was going to actually come tothat conference because I've,
I've, uh, been speaking withsomeone from C12.
I'm not a member, but um, soI'm, you know, following it.
But unfortunately I'll betraveling like literally the
week or two before that for anentire week.
And I'm like, it just won'twork.

(51:36):
But C12 is a pretty amazingorganization for people who are
looking for a peer advisorygroup that are kind of CEO
business owner level reallyrecommend that they check that
out for another resource forthem.
So Yeah, so, uh, hey, before wewrap this up, what's a good way,
I know you're super active onLinkedIn.
I really recommend peopleconnect with you there.

(51:58):
Other ways though, I know you'vegot website, business website,
talk a little bit about that.

Brandon (52:02):
two websites.
Brandon, michaelwest.
com is my personal one bookingspeaking, uh, linking to a
podcast.
We, we did two years ago calledthe FOS life and leadership
podcast, our top 10 life andleadership lessons learned in
our first 10 years of business.
And then FOS's website, FOScreative.
com P H O S creative.

(52:23):
com.
We work with, uh, small andmidsize businesses in the U S
one to 10 million in revenue inhealthcare, uh, in nonprofit, in
education, and then servicebased businesses, a lot of B2B
and it's a blast.
We have a team of 24 people whoare really passionate about what
we do as a company and the whybehind we, uh, why

Jason (52:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So, if you have a marketing needand you're in a, running a small
business like that.
Reach out to folks, reach out toBrandon and his team.
I've seen his work.
It's beautiful.
I, you, you have a very much a,a talent for taking concepts and
visualizing them.
That's one thing I really enjoyabout the work I've seen you do
online.
So that and read the book forsure.

(53:06):
Read the book, follow Brandon onLinkedIn.
So thank you, brother.
I appreciate your time.
I know you're super busy.
You got a family.
I heard them a little bit in thebackground.
They're probably ready fordinner.
If you're the cook in the house.
So I appreciate you coming onthe show, man.
Thank you.

Brandon (53:18):
pleasure.
Thank you for the invite, Jason.

Jason (53:20):
Yeah, and I want to thank each of my listeners again for
tuning in this month.
Uh, please take a moment tosubscribe to the show And if you
have any comments orsuggestions, I'd love to hear
those as well So there's optionsthat you can do that to send me
a text email Let me know commenton the video And I hope that
you'll be back next month as wemeet another leader who is
striving to honor christ intheir work