Dave Hataj - Business Owner, Author, PHD, & Journeyman Machinist - Biblical Leadership @ Work

Episode Transcript
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Yeti Nano (00:03):
Welcome to the biblical leadership at work
podcast.
I am your host, Jason Woodard.
On this month's episode, we willmeet Dave.
Hey tag.
Dave is a second generationowner of a small manufacturing
company in Wisconsin.
He has an incredible story ofhis journey from becoming a
young journeyman machinist.
To pursuing full-time ministryand then reluctantly.

(00:24):
Moving back to take over thefamily business.
Over the decades.
Dave has developed a refined andbiblical perspective of work and
leadership.
He is passionate aboutmanufacturing.
And the blue collar workforce.
And he founded a nonprofit aimedat helping young people learn
about the many opportunitieswithin the trades.
He is also the author of goodwork, how blue collar business

(00:47):
can change lives, communitiesand the world.
I absolutely loved doing thisinterview.
And recently I had a chance tovisit Dave in person and see his
shop.
And meet his cool dog.
Dave is the real deal.
And I pray that you are asinspired by his passion, wisdom
and humility.
Desire was.

Jason (01:07):
Dave Haytag, brother, I am super excited to have you on
the podcast today.
We just spent probably 20minutes talking before we hit
record.
We have a lot in common and Ilook forward to introducing you
to my audience.
Brother, thank you.

Dave (01:19):
Hey, thanks for being here, Jason.
I, yeah, we talk and shop andcouplers and gears and all that
fun stuff.
So yeah, we do have a lot incommon.

Jason (01:27):
would probably bore most of my audience.
So So Dave, you have a reallyfascinating story from, you
know, growing up, college,career transitions.
So take some time to walk theaudience through that.
What's your, what's yourbackground brother?

Dave (01:44):
Well, it's, it's pretty funny.
Cause I was working in the shopsince age five.
And I remember running a bigmanual hacksaw and just, my
sisters and I would have to comedown to the shop after school
because my parents had juststarted this little gear
business in Edgerton, Wisconsin.
And by the time I was 18, um,pretty much could run any
machine in the shop, the saws,the mills, the lathes, the gear

(02:07):
hovers, and back then everythingwas manual.
I was an, I was a journeyman bythe time I was 22.
And by that time I'd had enough,I was just like, I'm sick of
this.
There must be something more inmy worldview of manufacturing
was I really took it forgranted.
I thought, well, my dad runs agear shop.
Who cares about gears?
There must be something moreexciting out there.
Right.

(02:27):
Um, but the, the issue, thebigger issue was, We have a long
history of alcoholism, uh, in myfamily on both sides.
And my grandpa was actually, hedied a homeless person in
Chicago, my dad's dad.
And so my dad struggled withthis, you know, kind of the same
issues, but, but he, he wasfunctional.

(02:48):
I mean, he started this businessand he built it on quality,
value, and service.
Uh, but back in those 70s, uh,early 80s, uh, a lot of shops, a
lot of businesses, you justdrink, you know, you go out to
lunch and you drink and you'dhave, my dad actually had a
quarter barrel of beer in thelunchroom fridge.
He took out all the shells andput a quarter barrel there

(03:09):
instead, but it was a prettydecadent environment because.
Um, pornography was everywhere.
Um, just a really kind of hard,dark place.
And I was, I was headed down thesame path and I was drinking
heavily as a teenager, I thinkfirst time I was drunk was a
family wedding at age eight.
And so by the time I was, yeah,well, people were giving me

(03:31):
screwdrivers and I just thoughtit was orange juice and
everybody was laughing becauseit was,

Jason (03:35):
Wow.

Dave (03:36):
watched this little kid stay around and everybody was
laughing like whatever.
And I felt good.
I didn't, I didn't know,understand the effects, but by
the time I was 15, 16, I wasdrinking really heavily and
smashed a couple of cars, um,you know, a 17, 18 and really
became, suicidal, dark,depressed, had no, no sense of
purpose in life whatsoever.

(03:56):
And, and then I'm working in theshop.
I was doing my apprenticeship atage 19.
And I, and I was also doing, uh,long distance running.
I discovered that was kind of myescape.
So I was doing marathons andother stuff.
And I, uh, There was one day Iwas just really depressed,
running woe is me.
What's the point of life?

(04:17):
And not to be too weird.
Um, but a voice came out of thebushes and I thought someone was
playing, pranking me.
And it was, uh, it was so real.
The voice said you are notalone.
And, and I just, I literallystopped and I'm looking around
like, come on, what's going on.
And I remember I could show youon the road exactly where it
happened.

Jason (04:37):
at.
Yeah.

Dave (04:39):
I stopped and the voice came again said you're not alone
and everything and all the crapin my life from Earliest
childhood kind of flashedthrough my eyes and I knew at
that moment God was real and Ijust floated home and I was
filled with this insane sense oflove and purpose and Um, the,
the tricky part was my dad was aangry atheist.

(05:01):
My mom was a developed believer,so I had to navigate between
them and I, and it was so weird,Jason, that I, I went home and I
started reading my Bible insecret

Jason (05:12):
Yeah.

Dave (05:12):
because I, I didn't wanna, you know, tick my dad off.
Like, oh no, my kids become oneof these religious zealots, you
know, and, and I waited for themto go on vacation for about a
month or two, and then I went toour local church.
And, uh, walked in and actuallymet my best friend, uh, at that
and we're still really, reallygood friends.
But that started me on a journeythat, you know, when a young guy

(05:34):
becomes all zealous and excitedfor God, you know, what's the
career path, right?
Oh, you gotta go to theministry.
Ministry.
Exactly.
Everybody had to be pegged to bea pastor.
And I did youth ministry, um,ended up getting out of the shop
and going to California withAthletes in Action.
And he got a job in a bigchurch.
And I actually went out there,Athletes in Action, to do

(05:55):
triathlons, which was kind of abig thing getting off the ground
back then.
And I got out there and I wantedto get as far away from my
family as possible.
And got a job as a pastor tocollege students, even though
I'd never been to college.
God's sense of humor.
And I think they hired me as theWisconsin Hick.
You know, I'm in Newport Beach,California and I'm, yeah, yeah,

(06:17):
I'm telling my hunting storiesand my dog stories and maybe
they just saw me as, you know,kind of some sort of.
Comic or comic.
Really?
Yeah.
But the, the thing is, the groupexploded to a point where it
went from 10 to 125 people orso, college students.
'cause all I knew was to read myBible worship and to pray.

(06:40):
And I didn't have any othertraining besides that.
And the problem was the, uh, Igot in over my head.
I was 24 at that time, and I'mdealing with.
some major issues with a lot ofstudents and I just burned out
and I won't get into the wholedetails of that story but I
ended up resigning or beingforced to resign for some very
weird reasons that kind ofreally tainted my view of church

(07:02):
at that time.
But mentors said, you need to goto university.
You got to get a four yeardegree.
And that's the drum that peoplehave been beating for decades,
right?
You got to go to college, got togo to college.
So I did went to the universityof California, Irvine, got a
degree in social science, whichI don't still not really sure
what that is.
Um, and, and I'm actually glad Iwent because, um, it kind of

(07:26):
gave me an interestingworldview.
But the church experience was sodamaging that one of my mentors
said, you know, you need toreally figure out what you
believe, because I think so muchof my faith was tied up in
church, but not necessarily thatreal deep relationship with God.
So I ended up going up to, I amnewly married, went up to, uh,

(07:47):
Regent College up in Vancouver,British Columbia.
And that, that point.
At that time, people like J.
I.
Packer and Gordon Fee and JamesHouston, some really kind of big
name professors at the time, um,Eugene Peterson and some of
these folks, you know, he wrotethe message and some of these
different things.
Um, they were all there andpeople kept saying, oh yeah,

(08:08):
you're going to be a pastor.
And I'm like, no, God, no, I'lldo anything but.
And so the funny story was atthe, at the end of the, I think
it was the first semester Orsecond semester.
This must have been the secondsemester.
I took one of those classes,like, what's your gifting,
what's your back on, what God'scalled me to do.
And I'd been doing, you know,short term mission work in

(08:30):
Tijuana and inner city LA andrunning youth groups, etc.
And at the end of the class, itcame back with your, kind of
your summary of what you'remeant for.
And it actually said, quote,you're ideally suited to run a
small family run manufacturingbusiness.

Jason (08:46):
bizarre.
You're like, really?
That's interesting.

Dave (08:49):
it wasn't just real.
He's like, no, no, no, don'tsend me back to the shop,
please.
Uh, but I have to take thatseriously.
And we, my wife went home untilmy wife and she cried because
she wanted to be in your family.
But I don't think she reallyunderstood what this entailed.
And so the school allowed me todo a master's project of what
would it.
look like to bring biblicalvalues in a very dark place.

(09:13):
Because my whole in my faith atthat time was, you know, Jesus,
I can, I, I've seen you workingto doing some miraculous things
in many different places, butthere's no way you can help my
family or be relevant in a, in agear shop,

Jason (09:26):
right.

Dave (09:26):
collar, you know, didn't make any sense to me.
So we came back, I studiedsystems theory, family stuff,
and you know, culture, how tochange a company and all of
that.
And I, I, I half joke, but it'snot, it's more than a joke.
Um, the first two years werehell and then it got worse.
Yeah,

Jason (09:51):
you're a student Studying at the shop or you're back at
the shop when you say the firsttwo years were hell That was
when you came

Dave (09:58):
I am back at the shop.
Right.

Jason (10:00):
time with dad with dad.

Dave (10:02):
with dad and dad and mom had begged me to come back for.
five years, six years.
And they finally gave up that Iwas ever going to come back.
And so when I proposed the, andmy dad was starting to have
health problems.
So I said, okay, to honor himand my mom, and to really have
the sense of calling to come toa blue collar shop, um, to see

(10:24):
if, if, you know, the gospel isrelevant, even here, uh, it had
to be, I had to get back intoit.
And I, and I thought it'd be twoyears.
We'd sell the company.
And then God would really showwhat we're supposed to do

Jason (10:35):
Yeah.

Dave (10:35):
for the rest of our lives.
And that's been 32 years.
That was 32 years ago and I'mstill here.

Jason (10:41):
Can't get anyone to buy it.

Dave (10:42):
yeah.
And so it's, it's, um, it's beena journey.
I mean, those first, the first10 years were really hard
because we're trying to change aculture.
And my dad had hired fellowalcoholics and there's a lot of
infighting.
We had three employees that,that took our comp, that
basically took our computerrecords, our customer records,
and try to start their ownbusiness and slandered us

(11:06):
horribly.
And it was just this incrediblehard journey of, you know, we
have three little boys now andthe stress of the business and
the church didn't know what todo with us, the local church.
They, you know, people oftenlooked at us like, and I
remember Christian friendssaying, you're selling out,
you're not going into theministry, right?
You're going back to the familybusiness and they don't see any

(11:27):
relevance to.
manufacturing or the trades oranything in the sense of what
God could work through us and inus through.
So at the 10 year mark, um,things really started to turn
around and I started going,okay, I still want it out.
I'll be honest.
But, but over those years, mytheology really started to
change where I'm realizing therebeing in a business in a small

(11:51):
community or any kind ofbusiness, we can have an amazing
impact on people in our

Jason (11:54):
Yeah, that's right.

Dave (11:56):
and, and that led eventually, uh, 2010, I went
into a doctorate program of allthings to figure out how do you,
how do you minister to kids,high school kids that are blue
collar, who aren't collegebound, um, how do you help them
find their place in life?
And, and out of that, which I'msure we'll talk about, uh, came
this initiative called Craftsmanwith Character.

Jason (12:18):
Yep I want to say for especially for people You that
have never experienced workingin a manufacturing facility that
is literally spirituallyEmotionally, culturally and
physically dark and negative.
And I have Dave, my first, myfirst job in a factory, I was a

(12:40):
welder and, um, you know, out ofhigh school, wasn't sure what to
do all the same type of thing.
And I knew how to, I knew how toweld.
I'd done that in career center.
And so I, you know, going tothis place.
And it was extremely normal forguys to leave at lunch and go
get a 40.
ounce, for those that don't knowwhat a 40 right, a 40 ounce or a

(13:01):
beer at the Shell station andthen drive around the country
block drinking that.
I, I came into work, uh, Iremember coming in one morning
and my supervisor and team leadwere there before me and they're
in the paint booth smoking ajoint.
I mean, they're not hiding this.
This is, you could buy anyillicit drug in the plant that
you wanted to.

(13:21):
You know, these guys for funwould stick empty 20 ounce pop
bottles full of acetylene intosteel tubing and run it down the
line.
And when the guy started weldingon that section and blow the
tubing up, that

Dave (13:32):
Oh my

Jason (13:33):
That was, you know, that was prank.

Dave (13:34):
Oh my! Jeez!

Jason (13:36):
So seriously, man, I'm, I'm like 19 and I'm 19 years
old.
And these guys are, you know, alot of them a lot older, but
just.
Just an awful, horrible place.
And so, to, you know, to havesomeone come in, in a leadership
role, and say, We're going tobring light and truth here.

(13:56):
And, you know, we're not goingto be forcing people to take
Bible studies at break.
That's not what this is about.
This is about bringing, thegoodness of God, the beauty of
God, the beauty of Christ intothe workplace and translating
that, you know, applying it to abusiness culture.
And so, you know, I can, I canliterally, I can literally taste
and hear and see, I can, what,what that

Dave (14:19):
I know.

Jason (14:19):
because I've been there.
And I just want to, you know,make sure people understand.
And I'm sure some people have,but, If you haven't worked in a,
and fortunately they've becomemore and more rare just
culturally, you know, I thinkpeople don't necessarily want,
but it was, yeah, just like yousaid, pornography everywhere,
like all over the walls, likejust absolutely no shame.
So, so yeah, that's, uh, that's,

Dave (14:41):
Well,

Jason (14:41):
yeah, that's a

Dave (14:42):
well, in that, yeah.
Well, and like I said, that wasthe whole of my faith because we
can go to church and we can, youknow, sing hymns and whatever.
if the gospel is the gospel, ifGod is, does really care about
the lost, you know, the bluecollar world to me is that lost
people group that, that we wouldsend missionaries to overseas to

(15:02):
minister to, but we have a, wehave a whole segment of our
population that has no idea whatthe kingdom looks like.
Or, uh, you know, so they, soget it in a shop and
contextualize the gospel.
Like you said, we're notpreaching at them and I don't
demand people share my faith.
I'm open about my faith, but,but I.
But I demand we have sharedvalues.
And I think when you boil downthe kingdom of God, it's, it's

(15:25):
values of goodness andexcellence of love and truth and
honesty and dignity, um, andcommunity and all of those
things that, that a lot of bluecollar folks have no idea what
that looks

Jason (15:38):
That's right.
Yeah.
And to be able to have theopportunity to come in and love
them and work with them andrespect them and, you know,
honor those guys and just treatthem as we're called to treat
people by Christ.
Love God, love others and lovethem.
I mean, truly love them.
It's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it'sa bright light in a dark place.
So,

Dave (15:57):
Yeah.
If you want to challenge,

Jason (15:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dave (16:00):
yeah,

Jason (16:01):
um, before we go on to the next question.
So you wrote a book about thatexperience.
You wrote a book and I love it.
And I gave, so my son is a automechanic and a shop owner.
Um, in his late twenties, himand his wife own a shop.
So I'm like, you have to readthis, uh, talk a little bit
about your book.
And, um, so

Dave (16:21):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, thanks.
So I got sick, um, and this wasway pre COVID.
It was like probably 2016, 17.
Um, just stressed.
I mean, I was, most of it was,was just absolutely burned out
and exhausted.
Just the stress of the business.
I was going back to school, um,raising three boys.

(16:42):
Uh, you know, we were actuallydoing short term mission trips
to Honduras.
Uh, and I just reached thebreaking point.
And so I, so I actually had towithdraw from the shop and only
work.
Um, you know, most pastors wouldcall it sabbatical, but in the
working world, the sabbaticalwas, I only worked, um, 35 hours
a week

Jason (17:03):
It says that it's 65 or 70.

Dave (17:05):
Yeah, exactly.
So the first year I dideverything wrong.
I tried to rest and the, by thesecond year, um, the doctor
said, you need to rest evenmore.
'cause I came back too early.
Uh, so that second year I got alot of rest and I was starting
to feel better.
And like, well, what do I do?
And my shop needed from, as aleader, I needed to pull away to
help my leaders,

Jason (17:24):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.

Dave (17:25):
you know, get out of their way.
So like, well, now what do I do?
I can't go back to what I usedto do because one, it was, it
was just too much, but two, Ineed to give room to my leaders.
So that, so I started to writeand I really felt, it was kind
of funny because I thought,Because your mortality, you
know, back then I was, I was inmy late, well, mid fifties and
I'm like, okay, yeah, I, I, Ihave, if I don't get this

(17:46):
figured out, I, I, uh, my, uh, Ihave a short timeframe here left
on earth if I don't figure thisout.
So thinking about my mortality,about what would I say to my
boys?
Um, all, all grown sons, greatkids, all believers.
Um, and what would I say to myemployees as far as the legacy
of the company and how I thinkit should be run from a faith

(18:07):
perspective.
So I started writing to themand, and just, and, and writing
about the importance of, of justexcellence in a business and
that in kingdom values of truthand excellence and compassion
and what it means to be aleader, um, and taking a hard
look at yourself and, um, howyou do that in really a kingdom
way.
And.

(18:28):
I finished it and I sent it toone of my mentors and he said,
Oh, this has potential.
And within two months, um, allof a sudden I'm on a call with a
potential agent.
He picked it up.
He goes, I think it's reallygood.
And he shopped it around and hesaid, let's work on a manuscript
together.
And I, they edited it andcleaned it up, shopped around
and Moody publishers picked itup.

(18:48):
And, uh, it got, it gotpublished right during when
COVID broke out.
So sales were kind of

Jason (18:53):
all

Dave (18:54):
It was kind of rough, but it's called Good Work, How Blue
Collar Business Can ChangeLives, Communities, and the
World.
And I really believe that, thatwe overlook the business
community and the blue collarworld.
Because that's the foundation ofour, of all communities.
It's blue collar people puttingin roads and plumbing, electric,
you know, building andmanufacturing.

(19:16):
And as Christians, we havecompletely taken us folks for
granted.
The church doesn't know what todo with us.
And I think a lot of times we'relooked upon as just come to
church and write a check.
I mean, I'd be honest, um, butthere's incredible potential
for, for us as kingdom workersin our communities.
And I just think we'vecompletely lost that sense of

(19:38):
the dignity of work going allthe way back to the creation
mandate.
When, when God says, you know,be fruitful, multiply, flourish,
help build a civilization.
And for whatever reason, we'velost that sense.
This is how the kingdom works isby people being in their
businesses and just beingexcellent in how we treat people

(20:01):
and how it's not just trying towitness to people our work
itself.
We are honoring God and it's aform of worship when we express
our own creativity and ourdignity through a job well done,
whether it's making gears orcouplers

Jason (20:15):
yeah, that's

Dave (20:16):
or building the building.
Who in our world.
Wants a crappy job or I mean orcrappy workmanship, right?
I mean when you go bad servicewhen you go through your
community you admire good workYou admires, you know buildings
that are done really well And ifyou go back to Exodus when Moses
is a great story to me thatMoses is so frustrated with the

(20:38):
nation of Israel You know, hegave the Ten Commandments that
he went in Aaron takes all thestuff and throws into a fire and
out comes a golden calf and, andMoses just disgusted, goes back
up on the mountain.
And he, as a leader, he's soburned out and frustrated.
And he says, God, I need you toshow me your glory.
I need to know you're there thatthis isn't just all in my head.

Jason (21:00):
yeah,

Dave (21:00):
And God responds to him.
And he said in Exodus, I thinkit's 32, if I remember right.
And he says, I will indeed showyou my, I will, glory, I will
allow my goodness.
to pass before you.
So the glory of God is hisgoodness and his goodness coming
through us and in us and how wedo our jobs, how we run our
businesses is absolutelytransforming and foundational

(21:22):
for our communities.

Jason (21:24):
good.

Dave (21:24):
what the book's

Jason (21:25):
I love it.
Well, and so I will say, if youare in the blue collar industry,
if you're leading blue collarteams, I know I have, I know I
have listeners that are, becauseI know, I've talked to them.
There's guys running tool anddye shops.
There's guys running roadconstruction companies.
Uh, they'll listen to this showand so get the book.
And that's not why Dave,actually I asked Dave to be on
the show.

(21:45):
He didn't come on to promote hisbook.
I just, I believe in it.
It's a really great book.
That's why I gave it to my sonas an audible.
He listens to it, you know,while he's working.
So, yeah, I'm like, yeah.
And no, he said it was superhelpful.
I'm like, look, here, you know,you're a young man running a
business, a small business and,uh, you know, with blue collar
guys.
So, yeah, so it's good.

Dave (22:04):
Yep.
Awesome.

Jason (22:06):
Hey Dave, what are your spiritual disciplines?
We talked a lot about yourfaith.
You've talked about how you cameto Christ.
Like right now, how do you stayclose to the Lord and grow in
sanctification?

Dave (22:17):
So I am, I'm an introvert at heart and I need alone time.
I need silence.
So to me, it's getting away bymyself a lot.
Um, and just building that spacein my life to, to listen.
And obviously I read scripture.
I read books.
Um, I journal quite a bit.
Um, My daily so it's kind ofdifferent things.

(22:37):
I have my daily discipline andthen I have my, you know, kind
of weekly and monthly andseasonal kind of thing that I
do.
The daily one is just getting upearly and sitting quietly, you
know, I'm not into a, a, youknow, kind of a strict quiet
time, so to speak, but it isjust there's some mornings.
I'm so fried that.
I don't even have the braincapacity to read You know, I, I

(23:00):
just can't, I, I, I, I just, oh,I'm just tired.
But I'll just sit quietly andI'll say, Lord, show me my pain,
my pain points today.
Show me my, the anxiety that Ihave, because I think so much
and being a leader, is we haveto be healthy ourselves because
if, if we're toxic, that's,we're gonna project that on
other people.
So I wanna know, first andforemost, Lord.
Um, what am I struggling withtoday?

(23:23):
Where's my anxiety and help meidentify that and, and have you
deal with me on it.
And then from there, it's, youknow, it might be a lack of
faith.
It might be just a situationwhere you feel I'm going to have
to deal with that work withmaybe a, uh, a difficult
employee or a problem with acustomer or whatever.
And, and, and a lot of it'smaybe I'm not feeling that peace

(23:45):
with my wife or my, or my grownchildren or whatever.
Or I just feel really insecuretoday, right?
So I think there's a lot for, tome, a lot of the discipline is
just recognizing God as myfather who just wants me to
take, just be with him and take,you know, my, you know, take gas
or cares upon him.
But it's got to me, it's thisreally loving thing where I have

(24:07):
to constantly pray and recognizethe love of God.
So one of my life you know, isout of Ephesians three where he
says, you know, he tells like Ithink it's Ephesians 3, 19, I
believe, where, um, you know,being rooted and established
with love and love together withall God's people, you would
grasp how wide and long and highand deep is the love of Christ.

(24:30):
So that you may be filled to themeasure of the fullness of God.
And I think as a, as a believer,that's what I need every day.
I need to be filled with thelove of God so I can be, you
know, I can minister to my wife.
And then, and then apart fromthat, it's, um, I really try to
just get.
Whether it's taking a walk withmy dog, just get out in the
woods, get out in the fields,and then on a seasonal level, I

(24:51):
need that, I need that break ofjust pulling away.
And so I read a lot of booksand, um, my wife's great with
worship, but the disciplines ofsilence, of being alone, um,
controlling your thoughts, um,those kinds of things are really
important to

Jason (25:07):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
I remember, I think it was inyour book, you, anyways, I've
heard you say it or write itsomewhere is, you're in
Wisconsin, winter times, likehere in Michigan get pretty cold
and talking about just kind of,you know, being near a fire and
quiet time and, Yeah, we have acouple of fireplaces in our
house and I love that, you know,quiet morning and yeah, that's

(25:27):
being near to the Lord.
Nobody else around.
The dogs aren't up.
The kids aren't up.
The wife's not up.
Just you,

Dave (25:32):
Yep.
Yep.

Jason (25:33):
cup of coffee and the Lord.
That's good

Dave (25:35):
Yep.
Exactly.

Jason (25:36):
Hey, uh, from a leadership perspective, Dave,
when you think about your liketop two or three core leadership
principles that you just always,always go back to, what are
those?

Dave (25:48):
It's going to sound kind of weird maybe, but number one
for me is, is related.
It's humility and vulnerability.

Jason (25:55):
Uh, love it.

Dave (25:56):
And if you're not vulnerable with your people, um,
you're not going to connect withthem.
And we're all broken, right?
And I think too much, too muchleadership stuff out there is
you got to have your craptogether.
I probably shouldn't say crap,but you have to have your stuff
together, right?
You have to project this imageof being all, you know, I got
the answers.
I'm a good leader.

(26:17):
No, I'm broken.
And, and I, the transformationthat I see in my people.
going over the last 30 years iswhen I'm vulnerable and share my
weakness, I apologize a lot,

Jason (26:28):
Yes.

Dave (26:29):
you know, and it opens the door for my staff to go, yeah,
okay, you're like me.
And, and, and to really modelthat because it opens the door
for grace and forgiveness.
And, and if we don't do that,um, it, the environment just
becomes very artificial.
superficial, right?

(26:51):
So, so that's the number onething.
And, and I think the other thingfor a leader, which goes along
with that, it's that selfreflection.
Um, I think I wrote it in mybook too, but the concept of
when things go wrong, do I lookin a mirror or do I look out a
window?
Right?
And what they mean by that, whenthings go wrong, do I look out

(27:13):
the window and blame everybodyelse?
Or do I look in the mirror andsaid, how could, how could I
take responsibility?
Of this, what could I have donebetter?
And, and also flip that whenthings go well, do I look out
the window and give everybodycredit or do I look in the
mirror and say, yo, look what Idid.
Look how great I am.
Right.
Yeah.

Jason (27:33):
Yep.

Dave (27:33):
Yeah.
And I think that's just, justreally, really pivotal, I think,
as a leader to understand that,um, and to model that, you know,
to, to model that and beauthentic about it.
And so, along with that, goingback to kind of the, the
spiritual disciplines, I have tobe in touch with what my issues
are every day.

(27:53):
Um, because I think, you know,when you come in your work,
we've all seen that you cansense when people are in a bad
mood, you can sense when they'rein a good mood.
So, if I'm not really in touchwith my stuff, I can't fake it.
There's times I've tried to fakeit.
I come into the shop and Superbad mood.
Might've had an argument with mywife or whatever it might've
been.
And I come in and it's just, Ijust feel crappy.

(28:16):
I just like, don't want to cometo work.
I don't like people.
Just everybody leave me alone.
And I come in and kind of like,Hey, everybody.
People sense immediately when Iwalk in the door, you know,

Jason (28:26):
Oh, yeah.
Yep.
Yep.

Dave (28:28):
And so if I'm not aware of that, I'm going to project that
on other people.
I'm going to take my bad day outof those because as a leader,
you know, I think the hardestthing is, and it's not faking
it, but people look to us to setthat, to set the example, to set
the tone.
So even if I'm in a bad mood,can I, can I manage it and be
open about it and joke about itand say, and tell my staff, this

(28:52):
day sucks.

Jason (28:53):
Yeah

Dave (28:55):
And they're laughing at me like, okay, we'll give you
space.
Right.
And, and so it's, I think it'sso much of it is just modeling,
being authentic, I think morethan anything else.

Jason (29:04):
I think that word vulnerability I can remember
when I got it.
Like, I finally got it.
It was through a mentor and abook, I think I'll say I'll
recommend the book, it was byPatrick Lencioni, who's one of
my favorite leadership authors,and it's The Five Temptations of
a CEO.

Dave (29:19):
Yep.

Jason (29:20):
I don't care if you're not a CEO, I'm not a CEO, read
it.
If you're a leader, read it.
And he talks about vulnerabilityin there and why it's so
important.
And like you said, Dave, ifyou're not being vulnerable and
honest and transparent with yourteam, especially, might I say, I
think, I'm biased, but I thinkblue collar folks, they see
right through that crap, right?
Right?
You're just blowing smoke, and Iwon't even finish that phrase,

(29:43):
but you've heard it many timesas well as I have, right?
And they know! You're just,you're full of BS, and they know
if you are.
They'd much rather have you justbe, be legit, genuine,

Dave (29:55):
Yep.

Jason (29:56):
with them, and vulnerable with them, talking about making
apologies.
I just had to do that this week.
Okay.
I made a mistake and, you know,it was, uh, an issue.
Anyways, one of the guys on theshop floor You know, express
frustration to someone elseabout it.
And I heard about it.
I went out and apologized.
I said, you're right.
I should have, I should havedone something.
I did not do it.

(30:16):
And you know what?
He shook my hand and he waslike, thanks.
And that was it, you know, and

Dave (30:21):
I think, I think you're right.
The blue collar focus.
I think I love them growing up,you know, in that environment,
they have a BS meter radar,unlike anybody else, right?
And if you're not authentic,you're just, you're just part of
the man.
You're just part of the systembecause I think, I think blue
collar folks have been taken forgranted and overlooked and just
looked down upon so much thatthey tend, they tend to be a

(30:42):
very cynical group, which I am.
I am too.

Jason (30:45):
are.

Dave (30:46):
And I like, just show me some authenticity.
So let me show them truth anddon't blow smoke up.
You know what you're right.

Jason (30:53):
I, uh,

Dave (30:54):
they respect that.
And they totally respect thatwhen you're, when you're real
with them.

Jason (30:57):
you talk about cynicism.
I'll tell you a funny story.
I'm, uh, and I, I, I told youbefore we hit record, I'm, I'm
on a manufacturing consortiumgroup in my area.
And so we work withmanufacturing companies and, uh,
education leaders.
And so we're just, you know,talent pipeline, skilled trades,
development, all that stuff.
So, there's a large plant in ourarea that I know the HR leader

(31:19):
there, he and I have workedtogether before and I said, Hey,
can you please try to get yourmanufacturing site leader to
come to this group and see whatwe're all about.
And, uh, and I know of this manand he's a, you know, typical
ops leader, you know, a littlecynical, a little, a little, uh,
you know, abrasive at times.

(31:40):
And he said, uh, My friend said,okay, I got him.
He will come.
He said, he's going to come, buthe's very skeptical.
And I replied in the email.
I said, if he wasn't skeptical,I wouldn't respect him.

Dave (31:52):
There we go.
Exactly.
Exactly.

Jason (31:54):
your skepticism, brother.
Let's, uh,

Dave (31:56):
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Jason (32:00):
Hey, Dave, if you think back early leadership journey,
um, what were some things thatyou struggled with early on and
do you still struggle with them?
How have you overcome them?
You know, think about.
other younger leaders out there,um, encourage them maybe in, you
know, this, whatever particularthing is, maybe they're
struggling with it too.

Dave (32:18):
Yeah.
I think.
Insecurity, I think more thananything else, and I still
struggle with it even though I'm61, um, where people bring
expectations.
We, we, I think the expectationswe have of ourselves of what
kind of leader we should be, andwe have to project this, this
sense of confidence andauthority.
Um, caring so much about whatother people think,

Jason (32:39):
Yeah.

Dave (32:40):
and, and that's always, and I'm just wired that way.
I want, I want approval.
You know, I want everybody tolike me.
And.
I was talking to a mom recentlyat an event I was speaking at
and she said, you know, it'sthat old thing about when we
raise kids, our number onepriority is not to be their
friend, right?
Um, eventually we'll be friendswith their adults, but it's to

(33:01):
be a parent.
And as a leader, my number onepriority is the health of the
company.
And I need to do what's best,even when it's hard.
And even when people disagreeand even when I'm going to have
some blowback, I need to have.
the confidence to know that I'mdoing the right thing.
And I, when I make decisionshere, I'm getting everybody
involved.

(33:21):
I get tons of, I mean, I, Iconsult my staff constantly.
I want the, I want them.
In fact, a great book is, uh,uh, if you want, I don't know if
you ever heard of this bookcalled the decision maker by, by
Dennis Bakke.
It's actually takes place in theshop.
It's a fictional story and it'show we make decisions in a shop
and that everybody should havethe freedom and the.

(33:43):
Authority to make decisions andhe talks about those who are
closest to the

Jason (33:46):
yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

Dave (33:49):
But there's a but there's an advice process in there.
You can't just give peoplefreedom to make all the
decisions So they got to have ateam One person is the point
person they consult with a lotof people they consult with me
I'll give them the authority torun point on that And sometimes
i'll have to veto it sometimesusually i'm like no you guys did
a great job with it It's a greatbook the decision maker by yeah

(34:12):
Dennis Bakke.
Um, yeah, but it's um, so as aleader, I've just struggled with
my own insecurities and wanting,like I said, people to like me
and just being able to make thehard decisions when it's
unpopular, right?
Um, that's, I still strugglewith that and I think that's
just the way I'm wired.

(34:32):
I think that's the number onething.

Jason (34:34):
Well, you know, Dave, I think that's important for
people to understand.
So if I think back when Ibecame, I can tell you right
now, I remember.
Like it is a core memory thefirst time I had to write
somebody up because I was so Iwas so nervous And it was just
it was writing a guy up I wasn'tfiring him and I was I was
sitting With a senior hr leaderwho was a mentor of mine and she

(34:54):
did the talking I was just kindof there as the supervisor, but
it is hard, you know, and thatwas I mean that was 25 Maybe 25
years ago for me and it doesn'tGet easy, but it gets easier.
I think because you you know,you you gain some

Dave (35:09):
Yep.
Yep.

Jason (35:10):
then I think too I had a another person on on my podcast
who's a mentor of mine He's heand you are probably within one
or two years of each other agewise and he said the same thing
He said I still struggle reallyreally fighting having those
tough conversations but one ofthe things he said too is a
motivator is He remembers whenhe didn't have them and how bad

(35:31):
it gets and how harder it getswhen you wait too long.
And, you know, I try to remindmyself of that and, and also do
the right things for the, forthe team and the business.
You know, that, that's amotivator to say this, like, you
know, this has to happen.
Everybody else knows that youshould have this conversation.

Dave (35:49):
Well, well, you're, you're, I'm glad you brought
that up cause cause I have,that's my biggest mistake over
the years where I am often areluctant leader.
You know, I would love just theshop to run itself, not have to
mentor people, not have to coachthem.
And I, I, I, I had a guy come inmy, and I'm still struggling
with this.
In fact, this happened right nowwith, with the other nonprofit

(36:10):
I've started where people arelooking for me to lead.
And I often will, um, give myleadership authority away or
just draw back from it.
And I still remember I had a guycome to my shop or right here in
my office.
One time he sat down.
He's actually a couple of yearsolder than me.
He sat down and got tears in hiseyes and he said, you know,
Dave, you have to realize whenyou don't lead, we all suffer.

(36:34):
And I just went, Oh, cause hewas right.
When I, when I let issues go onand I know they need to be dealt
with and everybody's looking forme to step up and lead.
Um, I need to take the bull bythe horns and make those
decisions and confront people ifI need it.
And, and if you don't, if Idon't, Somebody's going to fill

(36:54):
that leadership void.

Jason (36:55):
Yeah,

Dave (36:56):
And it's probably not going to be what we all want

Jason (36:59):
that's right.

Dave (36:59):
you, you know, you might get somebody that's not going to
do it well.
Um, so I think your staff, whenyou're leading people in
whatever situation, if you'renot, and it's not being a jerk,
it's not being thatoverconfident leader, but it's
people know you have theauthority as a leader and step
up and be that authentic,vulnerable, but authoritative

(37:20):
leader that people want you tobe.
And if you don't do it, thingsjust get worse.

Jason (37:24):
Yep.
Yep.
Oh, they do.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
If it's not addressed, it'sgoing to get worse.

Dave (37:29):
Yeah.

Jason (37:29):
Hey, uh, we've talked a little bit about this, but I
want to get as practical aspossible.
So how do you, when you walkinto Edgerton gear every day,
like what are some things thatyou do to mindfully honor Christ
in the work and as you leadpeople and in your interactions
and decision makings and allthat, like talk, just talk some
more about that.

Dave (37:50):
So like I mentioned before, spiritual bliss and
getting up more and make sureI'm not toxic.
Um, but, and I write about thisin the book again too.
Our little interactions that wehave throughout the day can be
so powerful.
I call them relationaltransactions, where it's just
treating people with dignity andrespect, having a smile,
recognizing people.
Greeting them respectfully.

(38:11):
You know, I got guys that comein, they grunt

Jason (38:14):
They said, I have those same guys.

Dave (38:16):
But that doesn't mean they don't want to be respected and
appreciated and recognized.
Right.
And so as a leader, part of me,you know, from a kingdom
perspective is giving peopledignity of recognizing them and
affirming them.
I think there's such a huge needout there for people to be
blessed and to be People are sobeat up and worn down and so
insecure and I think especiallyblue collar people they come

(38:38):
with so much baggage And so tobe in an environment where we
are constantly blessing and it'snot it's not Ooey gooey over the
top But it's as simple as sayinggood morning to him.
Hey, good job And so to me,that's a big part of what I do I
recognize that it's kind ofalmost as my pastoral role to be
vulnerable open but to blessthem, right?

(38:59):
Not to curse them but to blessthem Um, and I think that's
huge.
God honoring is just givingpeople the dignity of a job well
done or or even just coachingand mentoring.
One of the things that we dowhen people make mistakes.
Um, and I've learned this thehard way over the years, and I
think I learned it from my dadbecause his first job, um, it
often tells a story.
This is this is how not to honorGod.

(39:20):
He would scrap apart when he wasin his late teens, early, early
twenties in the machine shop.
And, um, his step actuallybecame a stepfather.
If he scrapped the part, he'dcome over and the stepdad break
a file over a machine, cuss andyell and swear at him.
He'd take the gear blanket, hangit over his machine and leave it

(39:41):
there as a reminder, don't everdo that again.
It was just totally humiliating.

Jason (39:45):
gosh

Dave (39:46):
And, and I learned, so when people make mistakes, uh,
one of the first things that Inever, I never yell at people, I
always, okay, so what'd youlearn?
Because I've learned theyalready feel bad already.
If they have any character atall, there's nothing I can do to
make them feel worse.
But to show grace and say, youknow, what did we learn?
How can we fix this?
I've had guys come in andscrapped out thousands of

(40:08):
dollars worth of parts and theywant me to just to yell and go

Jason (40:11):
Yeah, they feel horrible.

Dave (40:12):
They do it and I'm like, oh dude, sorry.
And they've actually come up,would you just yell at me?

Jason (40:18):
Yep.

Dave (40:19):
And I like, no, I can't, cause I can't make you feel
worse.
So that's, that's, I thinkthat's, that's pretty practical,
but right there.
Um, but as far as the otheraspect of our work itself, we
want to make the best partspossible, right?
And so I think that, thatcommitment to excellence and,
and integrity.
So not only, you know, just allof our processes in our place in

(40:42):
our, we have in processinspection.
It's really cultivating that,that culture of excellence, that
we're going to do the best jobpossible.
And when we send out good partsto our customer, that's God
honoring.
When we screw up and we, we haveto fix it and we do it as fast
as possible.
That's God honoring.
Um, when we treat our vendorswith respect, even though

(41:03):
sometimes it's hard, that's Godhonoring, you know, and again,
it's, it's that sense ofgoodness in literally everything
we do.
Um, and when you think about thedifference between good and bad,
it's polar opposites.
You don't want a bad gear.
You don't want people to want tobe treated badly.
Um, it's so easy to go, okay,well, what does it look like to

(41:24):
be good then?
Right?
And it's, it's treating peoplewith respect.
It's loving them.
It's forgiving them.
It's, it's showing them gracewhen needed.
It's even disciplining themwith, with respect.
Um, it's making great parts, etcetera.
Um, I, I got a couple ofstories, one real quick.
I had a guy that, that, um, Camein so wounded and broken.
He, to be honest, hardly anybodycan stand to work with the guy.

(41:46):
Um, but he's got a huge heart.
These big burly guys, Gary isall ghetto.
And one day he was, he, he camein and, um, my, my right hand
man and I were out in the shoptalking about what some delivery
schedules This guy walked by andI said, Hey, by the way, I'm not
going to mention his name, but Isaid, Hey, what's going on?
How are we doing on those parts?
He blows up and starts whiningand complaining.

(42:07):
Nobody gives any, I won't usethe language, but nobody gives a
crap.
Nobody.
And I, I said, let's just stop.
And he just kept going on.
And it was one of the few times,one of two times I can think of
in the last 10 years where Ifelt the Holy Spirit said, go
off just in a holy way, go off.
And I literally, and I stoppedand I'm like, Lord, is that you?

(42:29):
Because this is going to betough.
And I just felt that, that, thatkind of, yeah, you need to do
this now.
And it's out in the shop for alot of people, this dude's got a
hundred pounds on me, big, big,big dude.
And I literally grabbed, he'sgot, he's got coveralls.
Um, I grabbed his, hissuspenders and I pull them
towards me.
And I, yeah, I literally yelledand I, and I screamed at him,

(42:53):
stop the bull, stop the bull.
And he's, and he's looking atme, I go, stop the bull, you
know, and I said, you gotta getthat out of your head that
nobody cares that you'reunlovable.
And I said, we love you.
You have to understand yourenvironment.
We want you to be successful andwe care about each other and we
care about you.

(43:14):
And he was just shocked.
He was stunned.
He And he shut up and all of asudden a little tear starts
coming down his cheeks.
And he said, Dave, I've neverbeen in a place where people
care about me, and it's hard forme to believe that.
And, and to me, I was prettyradical, radical example.
I'm like, okay, God, thank you.
That works.

Jason (43:34):
Yeah.

Dave (43:35):
But you know, sometimes it's that tough love that it's
not, you know, it's, it's nothumiliating them, but dude, I'm
speaking truth.
You need to understand.
I love you,

Jason (43:43):
Well, yeah.
And I think that some peopleneed to be communicated with a
four by four.

Dave (43:48):
Yeah,

Jason (43:49):
right.
I mean, that's, there's somepeople who you can mention they
might want to think about doingthings differently and they'll
be like, I'm sorry, I'll neverdo it again.
And then there's that guy andI've had that guy on my team.
And you.
You can't just mention maybe heshould not do that.
You have to, yeah, come at him.

Dave (44:05):
you gotta match their language.
This is the language theyunderstand, right?
And sometimes the louder weyell, the more they feel loved.

Jason (44:13):
my gosh.
I think you and I can share alot of stories.
It's the

Dave (44:16):
I think

Jason (44:17):
same guy with a different name, man.
It

Dave (44:19):
good.

Jason (44:22):
let's, let's talk about, uh, we're talking about people,
we're talking about how we canHonor Christ as we lead, uh,
these guys that we love, theseblue collar guys.
And let's talk about craftsmenwith character.
I think this is a great point,or a great time to transition
into that.
So,

Dave (44:39):
Yep.

Jason (44:39):
explain what that is, how it came about, your passion
around that.
Because I love

Dave (44:43):
So, yeah.
Well, thank you.
Because, um, like I mentioned, Iended up going back to school in
2010 to get a doctorate of allthings, which is really God's
sense of humor.
Because I'm an apprentice.
That's how I learn, you know.
And I gotta do things.
And this big dilemma that Ithink all manufacturers In the
trades and manufacturing, we'reall struggling with his
workforce.
We have an aging demographic.

(45:04):
We have people that are agingout average age in a lot of
shops or in the fifties or evenearly sixties, because we lost
an entire generation of youngpeople coming to the trades
because high schools back in thenineties started radically
reducing or eliminating theirtech ed

Jason (45:18):
yep,

Dave (45:19):
So since then, so Eric for 30 years plus, you know, we lost
kids who are coming into thetrades.
And so all of us in themanufacturing have been
struggling with who is going tocome in and replace, you know,
our retiring folks.
And so we were, we were poachingfrom other companies.
They offer, you know, a dollarmore an hour or whatever.

(45:40):
And one day I was up at ourlocal high school, where I
actually went to school, talkingto our tech ed teacher because
he asked me to come up and helpresurrect the tech ed
department.
And while I was up there lookingat all the old equipment that I
ran 20, 30 years ago, that wasmothballed and still there was
lathes and mills, I looked, Ijust felt God spoke to me and
said, Take a look at these kids.
These kids are you.
You know, this is how you were30, 40 years ago.

(46:03):
And they're a blue collar kids.
They're quote, not collegematerial.
You know, none of the teachersever thought I'd go to college
and they never, they never gaveme the option.
I think they looked

Jason (46:12):
yeah, yeah.

Dave (46:13):
he's not going to make it.
There's no point

Jason (46:15):
That was

Dave (46:15):
Oh,

Jason (46:16):
If he graduates high school, we're going to call that
a win.

Dave (46:19):
exactly, exactly.
So, uh, um, you know, so I, andtech ed departments often at the
middle of a long haul cut offfrom the rest of the school.
These kids are often sociallyawkward.
Um, they don't fit in.
They're not getting anyaccolades for, you know, their
grades off in sports oranything.
And I just felt God say, take,these kids are you and how can
you help them?
So that's where my wholedoctorate started.

(46:42):
It kind of changed saying, okay,how do you reach these kids and
who are they?
What, what is going to make adifference to them?
So spent three years studyingeducational theory, um, just how
we learn, how we grow.
And I came up with, you know,realizing and educators know all
this, but there's four types oflearning styles.

(47:03):
There's those who read andwrite.
That's how they learn.
That's how majority of oureducational system is set up.
But over half of our populationare tacit learners meaning we
learn by doing Or and part ofthat is also seeing and hearing
So how in the world is ourentire educational set system
set up for a small segment ofour population?
We have all these kids that needto be working and doing.

(47:26):
So the course I came up with,Craftsman with Character, um, is
basically four days a week thatthe kids get to job shadow.
And one day a week I get them inthe classroom.
Well, the, the concept was, itwas only an hour and a half a
day, but the concept was, can wechange their worldviews?
Can we talk, talk aboutcharacter and help them
understand that Being a teamplayer, looking someone in the

(47:48):
eye, showing up on time, beingcommitted to excellence, having
the dignity and pride of a jobwell done.
All of those things, having asense of justice and courage and
humility, those aren't justwords, but those are the skills
that you and all of our, yourlisteners, we've all, we all
adapted or learned to besuccessful in any job.
I mean, those are the softskills that we all need.

(48:10):
So how do we translate thosethings to these kids and also
give them a sense of purposethat they're not here by
accident.
They are here for a reason.
They have a sense of purpose.
The world needs them, etc.
And how do we do that?
It's not by reading and writingabout it.
It's showing them.
So the whole concept is hookingthem up with mentors in the

(48:30):
workplace.
And the two parts of that is nowthey get to see what's out there
for all these skilled trade jobsthat they have no clue exist.
So the course, a semester longcourse adopted by many schools
now, is, is Four days of jobshedding in a variety of
companies, one day a week in aclassroom where we, what I often

(48:51):
say, we deconstruct theirworldview and give them a
biblical, a biblical worldview,even though there's no religious
language in it, because I'm, I'mworking with the public schools
now.
So the transformation of kidsfrom week one to week 16, who
are often beat down, feelworthless, no self esteem.
to a point where they're talkingwith adults.

(49:14):
They're seeing the jobopportunities for them.
And we take them through thisthing called the craftsman code,
which I make the kids memorize.
And it's really fun.
If you're a dad, if yourlisteners are dad, it's fun.
I make the kids memorize.
Number one, you are, I am notthe center of the universe.
Kids have to recite thatconstantly.
Um,

Jason (49:30):
of the universe.

Dave (49:31):
yeah, but it's not a, yeah, but it's, but it's not a
SmackDown.
It's really the context that.
In any of our jobs, we're likein gear manufacturing.
We stand on the shoulders whocame before us, right?
We are, our trade has evolvedover a hundred years plus
machining or whatever.
So it's given the kidsappreciation for the past, help

(49:52):
them be more teachable.
And number two of the grassrootcode, as we call it, is I don't
know everything nor nearly asmuch as I think I do.

Jason (49:59):
yeah.

Dave (50:00):
And, and trying to help them be more teachable.
And then number three is there'sdignity.
And purpose in my, in my trade.
So now what you do reallymatters.
Our blue collar work is reallyimportant.
No matter if you're a pipefitter or a machinist or an
electrician or whatever.
And then the magic one is numberfour, when the kids really start
to understand it, the worldneeds me.
And when that, when they getthat into their heart and their

(50:21):
mind, that just opens up theirwhole world.
Number five is their, um, pay asa reward for my efforts, but
it's not my main motivation.
So we're kind of deconstructingthe lies of our culture.
And then number six is everyperson has unique gifts and
talents.
So you can't change a, youreally can't change a person's
character in two weeks or amonth, but over the course of

(50:42):
four months, um, it's incredibleto see this transformation.
Um, I got one of the best emailsever this week, and I'm not
going to read the whole thing,but just the last paragraph,
this kid actually came.
I only met him one time, and heis actually in another class in
a nearby town that we gotstarted.
But he said, before I startedthe program, I was working at a

(51:03):
shoe store in a horribleenvironment, which ultimately
led me to starting smoking.
I think he's a junior in highschool.
During my first semester, Iwould wake up at 7.
45 to be at school at 8.
I would wake up angry at theworld.
I was a bum.
Because of your course, I quitsmoking, started waking up at 5
30 every morning.

(51:24):
I'm in the gym three times aweek.
I start as a youthapprenticeship as a Mason
tender, making 18 an hour forthis company in Janesville
called J.
P.
Cullen.
And most importantly, I'mstarting to enjoy my day to day
life a lot more.
I've struggled with mentalhealth for quite a while and
things are really starting tolook up

Jason (51:44):
Nice.
Oh, a little blessing.

Dave (51:46):
Yeah, so it's and now i'm emailing this kid back and forth
because he's also asking thefunny part was he wanted my book
and now he's saying I I want toknow more about faith.
I want to know more of what itmeans to be a good man

Jason (51:59):
Praise the

Dave (51:59):
So so anyway, that's kind of if you go on our website
craftwithcharacter.
org Um a year and a half ago i'msharing This with our local tech
school and I got a call from aguy by the name of John Cain
from Scott Forge He's the CEO ofbig forging house here in the
Midwest.
He says you got to get over hereThe Navy's here.

(52:20):
I told him all about you.

Jason (52:21):
The Navy's

Dave (52:22):
Navy

Jason (52:23):
the whole Navy?

Dave (52:24):
whatever so I get over to the meeting and people are
talking about craftsman carebecause we got started in the
southern community With FritoLay and, and Scott Ford and some
other big manufacturers.
And everybody's bragging aboutthese kids are amazing.
You know, they're blue collarkids.
They're all getting youthapprenticeships now.
And the Navy, this woman fromthe Navy sitting there

(52:45):
listening, and she looks at meand she goes, Okay, I have one
question.
And I go, Yes, ma'am.
And she goes, What do you needto take this national?
Uh huh.
What do you mean by that?
We need this everywhere.
What do you need?
And what she explained is thatour nuclear subs are the only
competitive advantage that wehave, um, over our enemies.
Um, the Chinese, the Russiansare all up to par on our jets

(53:08):
and our ships and so on.
She goes the nuclear subs arethe only things that, that we're
a generation ahead.
So she said they, we have 17,000 suppliers, manufacturers
throughout the country.
And we're not getting our subsin time.
So we went and interviewed allof our, our suppliers and
everybody said the same thing,workforce development, not
enough young people coming in.
So we need this courseeverywhere.
So how can you help?

(53:29):
And I go, I don't know, money,uh, people like I'd have to
start a whole organization.
So, uh, we started talking andtwo weeks after we started
talking and six weeks afterthat, they gave me a three year
commitment, multi million dollara deal to grow this thing and
try to spread it literallythroughout the country, turn my
world upside down.

(53:49):
And I'm still, still reeling.
So we are, uh, throughoutSouthern Wisconsin.
We're getting to NorthernIllinois.
We hope to be in Michigan thisnext year.
Um, I've got a class in Houston,North Carolina.
I've got a lot of interest inDetroit, Seattle and different
places.
So we're scaling up to reallytry to figure out, you know, how
we can help folks.
If your listeners go on the, theNavy website, BuildSubmarines.

(54:12):
com.
You might see that the Navy issponsoring a NASCAR.
They're doing commercials duringthe NFL season.
Their website is amazing becausethey're spending hundreds of
millions of dollars to somehowfigure out how can we get young
people in our, in the submarineindustrial base with all the
manufacturers.
Yeah,

Jason (54:32):
that's super cool.
I mean, you and I, as we'vetalked, uh, we both see the same
problem and are, and are workingto solve it.
You're definitely further aheadthan I have been.
Uh, but I work locally withschools and, uh, educators and
other manufacturers cause it's,yeah, it's a huge problem.
I mean, we, we, uh, we startedan apprenticeship program at the
company I work at cause we'rejust, it's like, I'm not, yeah,

(54:54):
I'm just, I'm fighting for thesame talent.
And even when I get them, theydon't have the skills that I
think they should have.
So how do we build that up?
And that's what, that's whatwe're doing.
One, as you and I have gotten toknow each other, you recommended
a book.
called Freedom's Forge.
And so if, if, you know, whenyou talk about, well, why is the
Navy worried?
I mean, I think we understandthat, but if you are a history

(55:16):
buff and you like manufacturingand World War II, which I happen
to love both as far as thehistory, learning about the
history, Freedom's Forge is abook that talks about the
manufacturing buildup that ittook to win the war.
It took soldiers.
It took, uh, unfortunately a lotof bloodshed to win that battle.
Uh, and there was a lot of hardassets that had to be

(55:39):
manufactured.
Like, and you, when you, soanyways, this book is all about
that and that build up and howthat happened.
And without a manufacturingbase, you, it's a national
security problem at the end ofthe day.

Dave (55:51):
And that's what the Navy has told us.
We actually have a CommandMaster Chief of the Submarine
Commander that came and spoke atone of our events.
And he recommended the book.
And so I went out and got thebook.
And what blew me away about thatwas, I thought, you know, the U.
S.
involvement really started atPearl Harbor.
You know, December 7th, 1942.
It actually Our national leadersand manufacturing leaders got

(56:14):
involved in the fight threeyears before that.
And, and to mobilize theindustrial base to realize,
yeah, and Michigan obviously isone of the key places that's
happened, uh, back then to getthe main, you know, start making
tanks and ships.
And it, that book blew my mindwhen you see it, how harbors
were built and it just goes onand on.

(56:34):
It was, uh, one of the mostamazing books I've read.

Jason (56:36):
yeah.
Well, and I think it's, it's aparticularly mind blowing for
guys like us, Dave, that if youthink about, if I came to you
tomorrow and said, Dave, I needyour entire factory to be
making, um, these differentparts as soon as humanly
possible.
One factory, right?
Tool change, die change,programming, right?

(56:57):
Guys gotta measure these partsdifferently.
Multiply that throughout thecountry.
In every, in every, right,stamping plants, machining
plants, assembly plants, likeevery tool in an assembly plant
that was making pickup trucks,now it's making, you know,
Whatever.
Tanks?
I mean, yeah, that's like,that's a big deal.
Oh, no, by the way, a lot ofyour workforce is going to go

(57:17):
overseas.
So you got to do this with newpeople.
And, oh, okay.
No problem.

Dave (57:23):
Yeah.
And the Navy is actually, whenthey come and speak at our
events, it's actually prettyscary, you know, because they,
they can, they can share whatthey can, but.
Um, they said it is an issue ofnational security.
It's actually one of the topissues in the Pentagon right
now, because the Chinese areintent on taking over most of
the world, as we know.
And they said we, oursubmarines, they don't know

(57:43):
where they're at.
And that's what's keeping themat bay.
And I jokingly said to him oneday, I said, hold it.
So you're telling me after someprivate conversations, they're
explaining to me all seriousnessas I said, so you're telling me
that Craftsman with a Charactercan help prevent World War 3?
I was joking.
They looked at me totallyserious.
They said, you're not wrong.
I go, oh.

Jason (58:02):
Yeah.
That's

Dave (58:04):
So we're working hard to mobilize and, and if, uh, any of
you listeners are interested,literally go on our website.
I've got a powerful team thatjust in the last year put
together a website that ifyou're a business or a school,
you can join an informational,uh, hour long Zoom call.
And learn more and we're lookingto get this everywhere as fast
as possible because the Navy hastold us, um, I think it's the

(58:27):
year 2027 that the Chinese havein their charter to take over
Taiwan.
So they really believe it's onlya matter of time.
So there's a total sense ofurgency, you know, turning 61,
people said, when are you goingto retire?
It's for one, I don't think it'sbiblical.
And two, um, it's just not on myradar at all.
So

Jason (58:46):
Yeah.
Well, good.
I'm going to, yeah, you and Iare going to get together on
that because I want to sharebest practices and what we can
do on that side of things.
Um, couple other questionsbefore we wrap up, Dave.
Hey, who are some of the peoplethat you follow and listen to,
podcasts, authors to, to helpsharpen you as a leader, as a
believer, uh, in yourleadership?

(59:07):
Like who do you recommend?

Dave (59:09):
one of the fun ones, um, for younger listeners, Jordan
Rayner.
I don't know if you're, um, himand I have become good friends.
I've been on his podcast acouple times, but I think he
articulates The whole faith andwork movement right now, almost
as good as anybody, especiallyfor the younger generation.
Um, and that's really, reallypowerful.
Um, besides him, uh, on the, youknow, kind of the, some of my

(59:30):
favorite guys are dead, youknow, but I, but I really
enjoyed, you know, Dallas road,um, read a lot of his stuff.
I still go back to, uh, thedivine conspiracy, um, One of my
favorite all time authors who'sbeen, uh, been a long time is
George McDonald.
I still go back and read some ofhis fiction and some of his
readings, um, really ministersto me a lot.

(59:51):
Um, just gives me a, gives me aworldview that, that says the
gospel is way bigger than justgetting people saved, right?
It's not just praying a prayer.
It's this, it's this construct,you know, that people don't
know.
George McDonald was C.
S.
Lewis mentor.
That's what C.
S.
Lewis actually called him.
So that whole idea of the, theline, the rich and the wardrobe
and, and that whole series, it'sa, and, and JR Tolkien, all

(01:00:14):
those guys had this worldviewthat the kingdom is really
about, you know, infiltratingsociety in a, in a, with, with
goodness, right?
And standing up against theforces of evil and darkness and
being a light, which, which hatakes a lot of different, you
know, lot, lot.
We do that in a lot of differentways.
We need people in machine shopsthat are salt and light,

Jason (01:00:34):
Yep.
Yep.

Dave (01:00:35):
So.
So I guess that's, that would bea few off the top of my head.

Jason (01:00:39):
Yeah.
I, I found you through JordanRainer.
So you were, that's how I,that's how I find you.
I'm like, well, yeah, you wereon there.
And I'm like, wait, what?
There's a guy out there who hasa journeyman's card and a, and a
business degree like me, likethat.
You're the only other person.

Dave (01:00:53):
Yeah.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're probably the only two, butthere's gotta be

Jason (01:00:57):
There's gotta be more.
If you're out there, let usknow.
We can form a, we can form aclub.

Dave (01:01:01):
That's right.

Jason (01:01:02):
So if people want to get in touch with you, Dave,
obviously Craftsman withCharacter website, check that
out.
But what if they just want tonetwork with you or reach out to
you?
What's the best ways to do that?

Dave (01:01:12):
I'm on LinkedIn.

Jason (01:01:13):
Okay, good.

Dave (01:01:14):
So just find me on LinkedIn or through Crafts with
Character, you know, and I dorespond to people.
I'm not that famous where Ijust, I'm not one of these
people that get a hundred emailsa day.
Um, I love connecting withpeople and you know, I'll even
give out my personal email.
That's my shop email.
Just Dave at edgertongear.
com.
Um, just Dave, you know, Dave atedgertongear.
com.

(01:01:34):
I, I, uh, you know, I, I thinkwe're, we're part of us.
I think this young man that Iread this email this morning,
he's emailing me every otherday.
And he's, he's actually saying,no, I'm struggling with
loneliness because I'm, I, I, Ifind people boring and
irritating,

Jason (01:01:51):
You are.
You are definitely blue collar.
Yeah, you're

Dave (01:01:54):
but he's asking really deep questions.
And he goes, I, I, I rather havequality of a relationship than
quantity.
And he's 17 years old.
He's asking these questions.
And I told him this, I waswriting him this morning and I
said, you are part of a smallgroup of folks who you're going
through what I call anawakening.
You're waking up and asking thedeeper questions of life.
And I think those of us like youand I and your listeners,

(01:02:18):
there's some hard questions thatwe all need to talk about
together.
And to ask really, what does itlook like to be a Christ
follower in this day and age?
Because I think everygeneration, one of my mentors
said, God ain't got nograndchildren, right?

Jason (01:02:32):
Yeah, that's right.

Dave (01:02:33):
we, we have to discover for ourselves What it means to
follow Jesus in whateverenvironment that we're in in our
age and right now being in apolarized culture There's some
really interesting Challengesand I think more than anything
Opportunities, I think I havenever seen the opportunities
that I've seen in my entire lifethat I see now We're kids want

(01:02:54):
to be mentored business leaderswant to make a difference in
their communities And we alljust need to come together and
and talk and support each otherlike what you're doing Yeah,
what you're doing is awesome.
So thank you

Jason (01:03:05):
Well, thank you So yeah, and thank you again for being on
today.
Thank you for the work you'redoing I love it because you and
I just share so much of ourbackground and the the you know
what we're doing I mean, we'reboth running machine shops I
mean, that's uh, that's prettycool to be able to connect with
somebody who loves the lord andis doing that so I'm gonna come
and see you.
I'm gonna come and see you soon.
I can't wait for that.
Uh, but yeah, um Thanks forbeing on brother and I can't

(01:03:27):
wait for people to hear aboutyour story and what god's doing
in and through you So, thank you

Dave (01:03:32):
Thank you, Jason.
Look forward to connecting.

Jason (01:03:33):
All right

Yeti Nano (01:03:34):
And thank you for listening.
And again, this month, as weheard from another leader,
striving to honor Christ intheir work.
Please be sure to rate thepodcast and subscribe to our
YouTube channel so that you canbe the first to know when each
episode is released.
Thank you.
And God bless.

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Dave Hataj - Business Owner, Author, PHD, & Journeyman Machinist

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dave Hataj - Business Owner, Author, PHD, & Journeyman Machinist