Grant Blair Interview

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On this month's podcast, we meet Grant Blair who has nearly 30 years of leadership experience. He has a unique combination of experience in a corporate setting, manufacturing, and nearly 15 years at an Executive level in a global Missions Organization; Operation Mobilization.  Listen as Grant shares his amazing testimony and his thoughts on leadership and operational excellence. 

Grant has been married for 26 years to Gail. They have 7 children and 2 grandchildren and reside in Peachtree City Georgia. 

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Episode Transcript

Jason (00:00):
welcome to the biblical leadership at work podcast.

(00:03):
I'm your host, Jason Woodard.
Today we'll be meeting grantBlair.
A devoted husband, father andgrandfather to two.
Ian, his wife, Gail had beenvery active in church ministries
over the last 25 years.
But listen in.
As grant shares his testimony ofhow God radically changed him as
a young adult.

Grant (00:20):
And he just completely and radically changed my whole
life.

Jason (00:23):
Grant has been in various leadership roles spanning nearly
30 years and shares how he haslearned from both good leaders.
As well as poor leaders.

Grant (00:32):
but either way it gives you a model to either emulate or
to completely avoid you see theimpact in the workplace of the
bad examples, and you also seethe impact if you're blessed
enough to have a good example,

Jason (00:46):
Grant has nearly 20 years of experience in the
manufacturing sector.
Where he became a master blackbelt in the six Sigma
methodology and trained othersaround the globe in process
improvement, methodologies.
With that kind of backgroundgrant feels strongly about how
the church should influence theworld.
Not only spiritually, but evenoperationally.

Grant (01:05):
we, the church should be the picture of excellence for
the rest of the world.
Not the other way around.

Jason (01:10):
In addition to his corporate experience, he has
served for 15 years at anexecutive level with a global
missions organization calledoperation mobilization was
several years of that living inSouth Africa.
I hope that you are asencouraged and inspired as I
have been, as we get to knowgrant blur.

(01:32):
Welcome to the show grant.
Thanks for joining us.

Grant (01:35):
Great to be here.

Jason (01:36):
Tell us about who you are your career, and then we'll go
into talk about your faith inChrist.

Grant (01:41):
I've been married to Gale for almost 26 years.
And actually she led me to theLord in 1994.
And we might maybe get into thata little bit more later, but we
currently live in Peachtreecity, Georgia, which is about 30
minutes Southwest of Atlanta,not too far from the airport.
If you know where the airport isin Atlanta and we have three
kids.
Our oldest is Rachel she's 21.

(02:02):
Josiah is 19 and Abby is 17.
Rachel's a sophomore.
Georgia Southern university,which is here in Georgia,
obviously, and just high as afreshmen at point university,
which is a small Christianschool near here.
And Abby's a homeschooled seniorhere at home.
So she's thinking about nextsteps.
And also I was married for 11years and divorced before I came

(02:24):
to know the Lord at age 34.
And so I have four older kids aswell.
My oldest Sheila turned 40 lastyear.
She's married to Chris.
Monique is 38.
She's married to Derek andJolene is 34 and she's still
single.
And Julian had a twin Benjaminwho passed away in 1996.
He had a severe seizure disorderand passed away when he was

(02:47):
eight and a half.
And Monique and Derrick haveblessed us with two precious
grandkids, Amelia and William.
And they will turn three in oneand about a month.
And as far as like things welike to enjoy in terms of
serving that sort of thing.
I'm right now currently involvedin two discipleship groups of
men associated with our localchurch.

(03:08):
In one of them, I'm aparticipant with our pastor and
three other guys.
And one of them, I lead withfive other guys and in the past,
Gail and I and our localchurches have helped to lead the
youth.
We've been involved in missions,leadership committees in the
church, teaching kids and adultsand leading Bible studies.
Interestingly despite the factthat I'm a finance guy, with

(03:30):
some professional credentials, Ihave never been asked to serve
on the finance committee in anychurch I've ever attended,

Jason (03:36):
That's interesting.

Grant (03:37):
kind of, an interesting.
irony.
And I've never offered either.
So also in my role, Ioccasionally have the
opportunity to preach.
So I do that once in a while,probably once or twice a year.
And between being in full-timevocational ministry and our
church involvement, we began, Idon't really find time to have
too much time for othernonprofits.
We kind of focus in those twoareas our service with the

(03:59):
mission organization that weserve with and just our church
involvement.

Jason (04:03):
I'm interested in the the men's groups that you're
involved in kind of the formatthere, you guys use material?
When do you meet, how do youmeet men's discipleship scenario
of interest to me as well.

Grant (04:13):
It's been a great growth thing for me the format is just
that we read through Dailydevotional together.
So we have assigned readings forthe week and we read through
them individually, and then wefind a time that fits the group
to meet once a week to talkabout it for about, less than 75

(04:34):
to 90 minutes.
so no more than an hour and ahalf.
And we just we'd get togetherand talk.
And it's just the whole idea ofit really is.
I guess maybe two components.
The main one is just to improveour walk with the Lord, grow our
walk with the Lord our dailywalk with the Lord more close,
and we feel like we can do thatbest if we're all sort of

(04:54):
together reading the same thingsand then getting together and
discuss it.
and of course, when we gettogether, all sorts of personal
things come out andopportunities to minister to one
another.
And that sort of thing, but thenthe second purpose of it of
course, is fellowship.
And just getting a Christian mentogether seems like a lot of men
don't really have fellowshipwith other believing men or if

(05:16):
they do it's sporadic and notregular.

Jason (05:19):
So you guys, you said you lead one group and then you're
involved in another one thatyour pastor is leading that, and
those are both groups from men,from your church.

Grant (05:27):
yeah.
I think that was his idea.
the group that I lead is acombination of a couple of guys
from my church, but most of themactually don't go to my church.
The one I'm in with him, it'sall guys from our church, he
invited me into it initially.
They were trying to launch sortof a program in our church to
have these grow groups.
Lots of them spring up aroundthe church.
It's still really in itsinfancy.

(05:49):
There's only a few of themmeeting, but I think he's
planning this fall to have akickoff and, and really
encourage, everyone in thechurch.
to get involved in one, to growin their daily walk with the
Lord.

Jason (05:59):
Yeah, kind of small groups we had just kicked those
off in our church as well beforeCOVID we had I guess we had a
year or two under our belt

Grant (06:06):
yeah he distinguishes between these and small groups
in that small groups are moregenerally, for couples.
And also that they're morefellowship oriented where these
are more growth in your walkwith the Lord oriented.

Jason (06:19):
So tell us a little about your career.
You have a interesting, I thinkcareer, a major shift.
That I got to kind of be awitness to and a small part of,
so really interested in goingback, maybe starting with your
education before career and thengo from there.

Grant (06:35):
So I grew up in Illinois and got my undergraduate degree
in the same town that I went tojunior high and high school.
And my parents were involved inthe university.
The whole time we lived there,got a bachelor's in business
with a major in accounting, andthen started working immediately
after I got my undergraduatedegree at marathon oil company

(06:57):
in Findlay, Ohio.
Move from Illinois to Ohio.
Then got my masters about fiveyears later, after a short stint
with marathon in Atlanta.
Moved back to Ohio and got myMBA with a concentration in
finance, at the university ofToledo.
And then later in my career,which was sort of where you came
into my life.
I had the opportunity to get tosix Sigma certifications.

(07:19):
I don't know if people arefamiliar with that, but process
improvement certifications.
I became a black belt and then amaster black belt, which meant I
was teaching which is how I metyou.
Of course, teaching people thatwere learning the process
improvement methodology that Ihad been certified in.
But after marathon, I workedthere for about eight years and

(07:39):
then had the first opportunityto be a supervisor by changing
companies and moving fromFindlay, Ohio up to Toledo,
Ohio.
And worked for a global glassmaking company called
Pilkington.
I was in a variety of treasuryand accounting management roles
there.
That's where I had theopportunity to learn the
operating excellence, six Sigmamethodology, and became a

(08:01):
manager and practitioner in thatand worked there for about 13
years.
And then one of my mentors hadmoved on to another company and
he offered me an opportunity tomove up to Michigan, to haze
limits and work in the corporateoperational excellence and
training sphere there.
And that, Had a pretty globalscope where.

(08:21):
You and I, and some others weretraining around the world,
literally teaching thatoperating excellence
methodology.
And then as part of theoutgrowth of a short-term
missions trip that Gail and Ihad done to India in 1999, the
Lord had really put on both ofour hearts to at some stage be
full-time long-term vocationalmissionaries.

(08:43):
And I won't tell the whole storyabout that right now, but we
ended up joining a organizationcalled operation mobilization in
2007.
And I started there as CFO andvice president of support
services, which meant I hadfinance, HR it and operations of
our us headquarters buildingunder my leadership.

(09:03):
And then the Lord wasn't donewith us yet after about six and
a half years there we had reallystill had a sense that God had a
place for us overseas inmissions and long story short,
we ended up moving from O M ishere in Atlanta area.
We ended up moving from here toPretoria South Africa, where we

(09:25):
served for almost seven yearsuntil 2020.

Jason (09:30):
So real quick on that.
How old were your children whenyou move from the us to South
Africa?

Grant (09:37):
That's a, great question.
And it's actually a prettyimportant one.
Rachel, our oldest was 12 and myleader at operation mobilization
here in and we call it O M soI'll just start calling it Owen.
My leader here, the head of OEMin the U S who's an Irish guy
and has lived all over theworld.

(09:57):
He told me reluctantly he wastrying to talk me out of going
actually, but in the end, whenhe became resigned to.
The fact that this was somethingthe Lord had for us.
He said, you really, if you'regoing to have an international
experience, you really need todo it before your oldest kid is
13.
And his reason for that was andhe had his kids are a couple of

(10:17):
years older than ours.
So he had some experience and hejust said, there's something
that clicks in the mind of a 13year old that they start putting
down roots.
And it's really difficult forthem to pick up roots and move
to a new place, new culture, newcountry, if they're more than
12.
So I sort of took that to heartand it worked in pretty well

(10:39):
with the age of our kids anyway,but so, Rachel was 12.
So Josiah was about 10 and Abbywas about eight.

Jason (10:44):
I think Shelley and I moved an hour away and I believe
our daughter was probably aboutthat same age.
And I remember that was a big,big move.
You know, so yeah, I was justcurious about That transition
for you guys well, for the kids,especially, but so yeah, go
ahead.
All right.
So after you guys are in SouthAfrica,

Grant (11:03):
Yeah.
So then it came time.
I really sensed when we leftthat the Lord had said, we'd
have about five or six years inSouth Africa, Rachel ended up
taking a gap year that all ofour kids have been homeschooled
their whole life until college.
And Rachel ended up taking a gapyear.
And so we ended up being inSouth Africa about six and a
half years, but then it wastime.

(11:24):
It was really time for Rachel togo to college.
And I really felt like the Lordhad said five to six years
anyway.
So we.
Proactively intentionally movedback in 2020 and moved back to
the Atlanta area where O M USAis located.
And we got here about six weeksbefore COVID

Jason (11:47):
Yeah, perfect timing.

Grant (11:48):
I think it was, it was really God's timing.
It would have been reallydifficult to be in South Africa
during COVID.
We know some people that were,and it was really difficult for
them.
And So now I'm serving, asassociate international finance
director of OAM internationally.
It really means I'm theright-hand man to the global
CFO.

(12:09):
So back in finance, when we werein Africa, I was more in a role
of general leadership, generalmanagement helping to lead the
work.
We were involved in 13 countriesand mostly in Southern Africa.
And so I was part of a three orfour.
Person leadership team thathelped guide and direct the work
there.
And now I'm back in finance andloving it actually.

(12:29):
It's a great fit for me at thisstage of my life and career.
So,

Jason (12:33):
So go back to your education just for a minute.
I had a question.
So you said you did yourundergraduate, and if I
understood correctly, did you doa masters and an MBA after you
were in the workforce?

Grant (12:44):
no, sorry.
That was probably unclear.
I got my masters as an MBA.

Jason (12:49):
Gotcha.
And then, so you were, soundedlike five or so years into the
workforce when you did that.

Grant (12:55):
Yeah.
So after I had been at marathonfor one year, they transferred
me.
they did that.
with a lot of people back thento give them field experience.
they told me from the beginning,it would be for almost exactly
two years, which it was.
And so I came down here toAtlanta and worked in in Oil
terminal, where we receive theoil that gets loaded onto trucks

(13:16):
and goes to the gas stations.
Well, the gas and I was here fortwo years, and then I got
transferred back to Findlay,Ohio.
So now I was about three yearsinto my career and I started, as
soon as we got back, I startedmy MBA at the university of
Toledo and it took me two yearsto get it.

Jason (13:33):
So career wise really around manufacturing and then
missions.
And I remember when you and Ifirst I think we met in 2004 or
three or four and.
You had invited me after we metto go to Germany and help do
some training.
We had worked together a littlebit.
You were at their corporateoffice and I was at a plant.
You had come down andfacilitated some training for me

(13:54):
and others.
And then you had invited me forthat.
And we were in the Detroitairport and the terminal getting
ready to go to Germany.
There was a group of us, half adozen people.
And you had your laptop open andyou were looking at pictures
from your missions trip from I'mguessing the prior year.
And we started talking andthat's when I realized and like,
guess we will probably realizewe were believers.

(14:14):
And I think it was then that youtold me that you did those each
year or pretty much each year.
You and your wife and that youguys felt long-term called to
the missions field.
That always stuck out to me.
In my eyes, a pretty successfulcorporate guy with a good career
going.
But you had your eye onsomething else.
for Me, for someone who waspretty career ambitious and, you

(14:36):
know, not thinking aboutministry as far as full-time
there.
Sure.
I was involved in my church eventhen, but that always stood out
to me.
I always remember that that wasa really clear memory.
Does that match with the, Iguess you remember, as far as
you guys felt called, as youwere doing the part-time trips
to go to full-time eventually?

Grant (14:50):
Yeah, that's pretty close.
I'm sorry that you hadn'tfigured out that I was a
believer by

Jason (14:55):
Well, I will say there was nothing that would indicate
you weren't.
I think we had just had someminor interactions some training
certification.
So probably not any in depthconversations to share the
gospel in those interactions.
That was the first time wetalked about our faith.

Grant (15:10):
That's right.
I think you and I met in about2003.
I was trying to figure it outthe other day and I think that's
about right.
And so Gail and I had been onone trip to India in 99.
Then I led a team from ourchurch back in 2001 and 2004, I
think., at that stage, Iprobably would have just gotten
back fairly recently from thefirst trip that I led to India,

(15:34):
which was 12 people I think.

Jason (15:36):
and if I recall you sought the India would be where
you would go.

Grant (15:40):
Now we really did.
God had to really change both ofour hearts about using the
skills and gifts that he hadgiven me in the area of finance
and missions.
We really thought we were goingto be pioneers on Probably some
remote field in India.
And later after the event thatyou described in the airport
later when we got connected withM God really opened our eyes, it

(16:01):
took some doing, but and thework of the holy spirit, but God
really opened our eyes to, infact, people challenged me
grant, why wouldn't God want touse the skills and abilities
that he's given you in thebusiness and finance world to
serve a mission organization.
And so anyway, long story short,we have spent 15 years in
missions and almost all of it.

(16:21):
Well, all of it inadministrative sort of general
leadership finance type roles,

Jason (16:27):
for me, it's been really exciting to be a part of a
memory when you first made thatdecision and you guys came over
to our house and presented whatyou were going to be doing
because OEM's philosophy.
If I understand it clearly, itwas for their missionaries to
kind of garner that support fromchurches and individuals for
themselves.
And you and Gail came over toour house.

(16:47):
This was oh 5 0 6 somewhere.
Right.
And there that you were startingto build support oh six.
Yep.
Are now 16 year old was one andhad some pretty significant
health issues, which you alsowere a giant help to me.
And that you had experiencedthat with a child.
And so I can remember more thanone time praying together on the
phone and shedding some tearsover some of that anxiety.

(17:09):
I remember you guys coming overand presenting that very
clearly.
So talk a little bit about yourfaith.
You'd mentioned earlier thatYour wife was a key part of
leading you to Christ.
So let's hear about that.

Grant (17:18):
Yeah.
I'll try to keep it short.
It's an amazing God's storyreally is.
I grew up in the church.
My mom was a very committedbeliever, not so sure about my
dad.
They're both deceased now, butwe always went to church.
I went to youth group in highschool, you know, the trajectory
was I'm sure in my mom's eyes,you know, really good.
And that's why we with our kidsnever take anything for granted.

(17:40):
But then I got involved with thewrong group of kids in high
school and started making somereally bad decisions.
I won't get into all thedetails, but I like to tell what
God rescued me to not from Andlong story short, I lived a
pretty rebellious life duringhigh school college, even during
most of my first marriage.
And that probably had lot to dowith it failing as well.

(18:02):
And while I was in the processof going through my divorce, I
was more married the first timefor 10 years.
And then the divorce was kind oflong, about 18 months.
So it ended up being 11 years,but we were separated for a year
and a half.
I got an apartment where Gaillived with her sister and we had
met previously at work.
We were both working atPilkington, the glass company.

(18:22):
She had just started and she wasshe is a lot younger than me, 12
and a half years.
And we worked in the samebuilding and she recognized me
from work, but then saw memoving into the apartment and
started asking questions.
You know, what's going on withthis guy?
I thought he was married and hada family and all this stuff.
And.
So people explained it to her.
And so then she and her sistermade it sort of their mission to

(18:43):
befriend me.
They invited me over for dinner.
We started hanging out more andmore and I'm sure they were
probably gently sharing theirfaith with me.
They were both pretty committedbelievers, although Gale was
having a bit of a backslide atthat time.
And so we became more than goodfriends and started seeing each
other, you know, just the two ofus.

(19:03):
And so, but me and my rebellionand her and her backsliding
probably wasn't a real good calmdonation for either one of us at
that time.
And when my divorce was final, Iwas really financially sort of
devastated.
And I asked her to move in withme, which she did.
And another long story short,she eventually started having
dreams about the Lordconfronting her and her

(19:24):
lifestyle.
And one night after she hadalready decided in her heart, to
move back home with her parents.
She shared with me the dreamsthat she had been having about
the Lord confronting ourlifestyle, her lifestyle, and
explained to me that herrelationship with Jesus was more
important to her than herrelationship with me.
And that she couldn't understandwhy I didn't want to have a

(19:44):
relationship with my creator andthose two statements I've never
to this day forgotten obviously.
It just rocked my world.
I got really depressed.
Like immediately I stoppedsleeping.
Couldn't eat and lost a lot ofweight in like I'm talking like
almost 10 pounds in about threedays.
One day, a few days later, Ijust finally, I was in my car

(20:06):
driving around, driving my olderkids somewhere.
And I just finally came to gripswith the fact that I had made a
terrible mess in my life, whichhad really negatively affected a
lot of people that I loved.
And most notably my kids and theholy spirit just kept reminding
me of those words that Gail hadshared with me.
And so the weekend after sheshared that I was running in a

(20:27):
park by myself and I just said,God, if you're real, I want you
to come into my life and changeit.
And those words began animmediate and radical change in
my life.
I stopped a lot of the badhabits that I had the partying
and stuff, and started going tochurch, went to Sunday, school
tended, Bible studies andlearning what it really meant to

(20:48):
have a personal relationshipwith the Lord.
And I think even though I hadgrown up in the church, I really
didn't know.
I mean, I had watched my momswalk with the Lord, but I really
didn't know what it meant myselfto have a personal relationship
with the Lord.
And he just completely andradically changed my whole life.
People at work noticed almostimmediately the difference in my

(21:09):
countenance and my speech andstopping swearing.

Jason (21:12):
Yup.

Grant (21:13):
And now it's been an amazing journey with the Lord,
which began actually 28 yearsago this month.
And I was a dreadful center andneeded a savior and he just
turned it all around.

Jason (21:23):
That's awesome.
I had a similar experiences inmy childhood.
My dad remarried I was about inseventh grade and, In that new
marriage, they wanted to bringthe blended family together and
make sure that we're going tochurch.
And so from seventh to 12thgrade, we were very involved in
church and I heard the wordpreached many, many times.
And similar thing though is latehigh school years, complete

(21:45):
rebellion and, you know, fastforward a few years of living a
very destructive life and Godgot ahold of me.
And I think sometimes why did Imiss the truth of the gospel or
the real truth of his word whenI was younger?
Or did I not?
And I just rebelled and, youknow, he was gracious enough to
always be there through that.
So yeah, I wonder about thatsometimes,

Grant (22:06):
it's amazing how patient he is with our rebellious.

Jason (22:10):
Yeah, incredibly graceful.
Well, good.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's an amazing story andobviously really a special story
between you and Gail.
You know, obviously you guyslove each other and you've been
married for all these years, butto have grown in your faith come
back to the Lord togetherreally, and grown in your faith
and have her be such a part ofthat confrontation.
They had to take a lot ofcourage on her part to be ready

(22:32):
to walk away.

Grant (22:33):
You can imagine what her parents thought about.
Her being involved with a guywho's 12 and a half years older
than her going through a divorceand then having gone through a
divorce with four older kids,including one with special
needs.

Jason (22:47):
Yeah, well, I'm sure now as parents, right.
You and I probably can assumestrongly that they were praying
a lot for her and that the Lordwould bring her the right
person.
And so he did, they just didn'tknow it at first.
I'm sure.
I know.
I, I prayed for that for mychildren that you know, they had
found a spouse that would helpthem walk with the Lord.
So I'm gonna pivot a little bitleadership wise.

(23:11):
What's your go-to motto.
What's your key principle, youknow, and how does that tie back
into scripture when you thinkabout leadership, and if you had
to distill your thoughts on goodbiblical leadership down to a
phrase, a sentence, a, keyprinciple, what would that be?

Grant (23:26):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Honestly, I don't think I havespent a lot of time thinking
about that.
Or that I really have any onespecific motto or principle.
There's probably a few thingsthat are maybe a little bit
related, but I hate dishonestyand hypocrisy.
I mean, it drives me crazy.
So maybe in the famous words ofJesus, it would be something
simple.

(23:46):
Like let your yes.
Be yes.
And your no be?
no.
Which I think comes from MatthewI think it's in the sermon on
the Mount.
But, I really believe intreating other people the way
that you want to be treated.
I think it's important to followup and do the things that you
say you're gonna do.
That's kind of along with yourUSBs and your no, be no.

Jason (24:05):
That's one thing I wanna just stop on that just for a
second, that I think youngleaders sometimes, and even more
mature leaders fail tounderstand the importance of
that.
Following up after you've toldsomebody you were going to do
that.
I remember as a youngsupervisor, having somebody who
was a mentor of mine, sharingthat with me, you better write
that down.
If you told them you were goingto do whatever, could be the

(24:25):
most simple thing.
And it doesn't mean you're goingto come back and tell them, yes,
you're going to get what youasked for.
But yeah, at least that followthrough.
It's a really looked at as anintegrity piece because in their
eyes, you said you would dosomething and you didn't, maybe
you honestly forgot, but tothem, maybe you just were lying
and you know, it's an integritypiece and really could be pretty
destructive to our witness.

Grant (24:44):
I try not to ever tell someone I'm going to pray for
them unless I.
I am planning to do it likesoon,

Jason (24:51):
Yeah.
Yup.

Grant (24:52):
because like you say, if you don't write it down, then
you forget, and then you haven'tdone what you said you were
going to do.
And I just that's important.
So

Jason (25:00):
I had a pastor one time who said don't say you're going
to pray for them.
If you aren't guaranteed, you'regoing to pray for him and be
able to follow back up.
There's a young lady at my plantright now who yesterday her
little boy went in for surgery.
So I told her Thursday, I wouldpray for, and I did.
And I remembered too, because Iwant to be able to follow up
with her next week and ask herhow things are going and let you
know and let her know I did prayfor her and pray for her little

(25:21):
boy.
So yeah.

Grant (25:23):
Some other things I'm pretty impatient with lack of
motivation and effort.
So maybe another one would bejust that principle of being
productive with your time.
Self-starting.
Giving you all those sorts ofthings.
I think, you know, in terms ofactually teaching and mentoring,
I've been blessed because mostof my opportunities in the last
15 years since I've been withOEM have either been through OEM

(25:45):
or through church.
So I get to do it in overtlyChristian environments.
We talked about the grow groups,the discipleship groups earlier,
I become absolutely convincedthat the very most important
thing in any believers life istheir daily walk with the Lord.
And so caring for that andnurturing it is, you know, be
because I'm typically mentoringor I'm in relationship with

(26:08):
other believers.
We can talk about that openly.
And that can take a lot ofdifferent shapes and forms.
I mean, I think everybody doesit.
I don't always do my quiet timein the morning.
For example, some people thinkthat's really important and it
is a model but sometimes I justcan't and so, you know, but I
try to try to do it when I can.
And I've also come to therealization in our really busy

(26:30):
production oriented culture thatthis daily walk with the Lord,
and maybe one of the mostcritical and neglected aspects
of even the most committedbelievers life.
So it's one of the reasons thatI feel so committed to those
grow groups and being part ofhelping, not just other people,
but myself stay in relationshipwith others that are going to
sorta hold me accountable tothat daily, quiet time and

(26:52):
getting together to actuallydiscuss it and grow from it as a
group.

Jason (26:55):
And I'm at that place in my life trying to mentor some
young men, you know, and hopingto help them not take years to
understand how a critical, thosedaily disciplines.
And their marriage and theirwork in their relationship to
Christ and their growth andholiness.

Grant (27:12):
by the way, those grow groups, that's an acronym, which
I think is pretty cool too.
I think our pastor came up withit or you got it somewhere.
They all four bits of that.
acronym relate to the word andthey are grasp it, reflect on
it, own it and walk it.

Jason (27:27):
So that leads us right into another question I wanted
to ask a little bit about thosefundamental aspects of the faith
and being in the word of beingin prayer, you've shared with me
Some of that before.
So talk to us a little bit aboutyour daily, weekly spiritual
disciplines.

Grant (27:42):
I, you know, honestly, Jason, I don't think has been as
consistent as You might havethought.
I, I have struggled.
I mean, It seems like I'm eitherreally strong with it or not
very strong with it and thatkind of ebb and flow.
And so these growth groups havebeen really helpful.
I, I do well when I have a goaland I have other people that are

(28:04):
sort of helping to hold meaccountable.
And so these growth groups havereally helped me with being in
the word daily and spending sometime in prayer.
I've probably been betteractually at prayer than, than
being in the word most of thetime, most of my life.
So like I said, we have theseassigned readings and we get
together once a week for aboutless than an hour and a half.

(28:25):
And so that just really helpsme.
I'm in two of those groups, as Imentioned I'm trying to stay
caught up or slightly ahead,especially in the one I'm
leading of the group andthinking about discussion
questions for the one I'mleading and just trying to
process and the one I'mparticipating in.
So, and then sometimes it's, youknow, the other day it was like

(28:46):
almost a hundred verses I think.
So it's not just small, tinylittle bits of scriptures.
Sometimes it is sometimes it'sfour or five verses, but it
just, it really helps me to havea group to be accountable for
that.
And as I think I might'vementioned, earlier I have been
an avid runner since I was incollege and I usually get out
about six times a week.
Usually every day, but Sundayfor about a five or six mile

(29:09):
run, which takes me about anhour.
And I try to pray through mostof that.
Sometimes my mind wanders and Iget distracted, but that is
really a good time for me topray.
Sort of takes my mind off of therunning and which actually I
really enjoy.
But

Jason (29:23):
You mentioned when we first started talking that you
get a opportunity to preach afew times a year.
As part of your role at churchand I, and I do as well and
something that I want to ask ifyou've had the same experience
when I am preparing and I amactually a two and a half weeks,
I'm going to cover in thepulpit.
And so for the next severalweekends, I know I will spend

(29:46):
more time in the word and studyharder than I typically do.
So what's become very obvious tome is when I have those sorts of
opportunities to teach aWednesday night to preach Sunday
morning or even just lead aSunday school class, it pushes
you to dig deeper and harderinto the word.
And so I really recommend forpeople that they raise their

(30:08):
hands for those opportunities,not only to serve in the church,
but for our own spiritualdevelopment.
Same experience for you

Grant (30:15):
absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, anytime you especiallypreach, but even teach
something, you know, that theBible has some pretty stern
warnings for teachers about theresponsibility that it is.
And I take that pretty seriouslytoo, but that aside, if you're
going to do a good job, you.
better know that passage prettyinside and out.

(30:36):
Yeah you know, have somebackground about it and other
passages that relate to itreally, really know it deeply.
And so we talk all the time inour grow group about how the,
the leader is the one that'slearning the most,

Jason (30:48):
That's right.
That's right.

Grant (30:49):
because cause they're, I'm just digesting it at a
different level than everybodyelse in the group.
And

Jason (30:55):
And even when I was young man in my spiritual walk,
signing up to teach Sundayschool kids, Sunday school
helped me to grow in the faithand grow in.
Know my understanding of God'sword.
So again, another little pivothere.
Tell me if you look back toearly in your career as a
leader, you said if I rememberright, when you went, I think to
Pilkington, you had aopportunity to lead people for

(31:18):
the first time.
What were some of the thingsthat you struggled with then?
And then what advice would yougive to young leaders who might
be in that same situation andhow to work through that and
overcome it?

Grant (31:30):
I think the thing I've struggled with the most in my
whole life, not just in the workworld, but in life in general
too, is addressing situationswhere, there's going to be
conflict or disagreement orstress.
I mean, I, I just reallystruggle with head on
confrontation with issues that Iknow ahead of time are going to
Take me out of my comfort zoneand into, having to rebuke

(31:52):
someone And so what happens isI, I struggle with dealing with
it head-on and it festers, andusually it gets worse.
And you know, I tend toprocrastinate on things like
that and just hope it getsbetter or goes away.
And I, I do think over time whenyou get to be, you know, 60
pluses, I am you, naturally overtime, get a little bit better at

(32:14):
recognizing it and knowing thatit's just going to get worse.
And so dealing with it a bitmore head on, but honestly,
it's, I can't say that I'veturned that into a strength at
this stage.
It's still something I strugglewith.
I recognize that it's importantthat more than I probably did
early in my career and try notto let it happen, but sometimes
I just take too long.

Jason (32:35):
I can say the same thing.
I remember still to this day,the first time I ever wrote
somebody up as a supervisor, Iwas so full of anxiety and an HR
leader who was a mentor of mine.
You and I both know her Tracy,Peterson.
She was a pretty strong,confident leader.
And she helped me through that.
And to her, it was no big deal.
It seemed like to me, and I wassweating bullets, I would say

(32:56):
the same thing.
It's an area that I've struggledwith, but less so over the
years, I can remember having alot of anxiety about it.
Maybe the day before, when, youknow, you have to have a really
difficult conversation withsomebody the next day and then
24 hours later when you're, youknow, maybe at home that day
after work and you've done it,you think that didn't go nearly
as bad as what in my head Ithought, right.

(33:17):
I came up with all these thingsthat this is gonna just be
horrible and just an emotionalevent.
And typically it's not.
But I think that for me, atleast, I had to get to a place
in my career as a leader where Iwas either going to be willing
to do it, or I shouldn't be in aleadership role.
And I really.
God had called me into aleadership role.

(33:37):
And so it became really a matterof integrity for me.
Even this week I had to, youknow, meet with somebody in our
one-to-one and have aconversation about some
behavioral issues and in the endI even look back and I go, man,
was I direct enough?
You know, did I drive it homedeep enough for this guy to
understand it?
But I did it because I knew, theworst thing for me would ever be
to, ultimately have to letsomebody go and then look at me

(33:59):
and go, I had no idea that was aproblem.
You know that for me, it goesback to an integrity.

Grant (34:04):
Yeah, I think one of the things that has helped me deal
with it a little bit isrecognizing that if I don't deal
with this, often a singleindividual that's causing a
problem or involved in aproblem.
The whole team, the whole groupis going to suffer.
So I can motivate myself by thatmore than dealing with the
situation itself, that if Idon't deal with this, it's going

(34:28):
to have negative implicationsfor the whole team.
And I don't want that to happen.

Jason (34:33):
You know, you'll never build a good team if you don't
address the accountabilityissues.
Cause it just festers it's theone bad apple, right?
It's an old, old cliche, butit's super true.
That's probably something thathonestly, I would guess that a
lot of leaders would say theystruggle with.
In fact, I can remember, and Ithink maybe it was Tracy that
told me this it'll never geteasy and that's up to, and

(34:53):
including having to terminateand fire somebody, it never gets
easy.
It gets easier.
But if it ever got easy, youprobably shouldn't be leading
people.
Right.
There's like, it could be a realproblem there that you probably
shouldn't be in charge ofpeople's lives that, you know,
you can have that kind ofimpact.
So grant let's move on to adifferent question.
What do you see as the biggestgap?
In leadership in general rightnow.

Grant (35:14):
I think for me, it's humility.
what's the biggest thing I'mlacking.
I hope, I guess it's a littlebetter in the lives of believers
than it is in unbelievers,because that really is part of
the core of what Jesus taught.
But I just find that many, ifnot most leaders today find it
really difficult to admit thatthey made a mistake or to

(35:34):
apologize, you know, it's like,they don't want to show a chink
in their armor.
And I'm really blessed Right.
now to have a senior leader, notmy direct leader, but above him,
who I work with a lot.
And he is just absolutelyexcellent at this.
He always acknowledges if heoverlooked something or made a
mistake and apologizes profuselyhe's just a great model for me

(35:58):
to even at this stage of mycareer to be learning from So
with someone like him, who isn'tafraid to confess that they made
a mistake and to apologize,there's just this much better
environment of trust and feelingnon threatened in the work
environment.
And plus, you know, that if youmake a mistake and you need to
apologize yourself, it's notgoing to be a big deal or seen
as some sort of a weakness for aleader like that because they do

(36:20):
it themselves all the time.
And so I think, you know, thatpeople that can't do that, that
don't have the humility torecognize that we all make
mistakes.
They're insecure.
They feel like they have tocover over things and it just,
it creates a really kind of anegative environment for, does
that make sense?

Jason (36:40):
Yeah, it makes total sense.
It makes me think about I'mfortunate enough right now to, I
have a a direct manager who hasthat level of humility and not
only that, but it's reminded mein the last several months.
Of the advantage that comes whenthe leader doesn't always
present that they have all theanswers and this leader that I

(37:01):
work for right now, she doesn't,and she brings her team's input
and they give it willinglybecause she asks for it.
She's not coming to the tablesaying I have all the answers
here, go execute on it.
And it's that humility still.
And, you know, over the yearsI've worked for leaders who
weren't like that.
They never apologize for beingwrong, and they always had the
answer and there was never anyinput from the team because it

(37:24):
wasn't welcomed.
It wasn't accepted.
And not only as believers, forsure.
That's a testimony issue, right?
That humility is lacking.
Number one, number two, as a,just a effective leader.
You.
You are choking, some innovationand, opportunities for finding
better ways to do things.

Grant (37:43):
We've all probably had more negative examples of that.
Or at least I have had morenegative examples than positive
ones, but either way it givesyou a model to either emulate or
to completely avoid because yousee the impact in the workplace
of the bad examples, and youalso see the impact if you're
blessed enough to have a goodexample, which I haven't had too

(38:04):
many of, honestly, in my.
Career a few, but this guy Rightnow is really good.
And you can see the positiveside very clearly, and you can
see the negative side veryclearly as well.

Jason (38:15):
When I was a young supervisor and the plant I
worked, where you and I met, itwas a couple of years before you
and I met.
We had a um,, really terribleplant manager.
Probably, he was promoted alittle bit further than he
should have been, but regardlessthings were really bad.
This guy was just horrible towork for.
And I'll never forget.
We had an operations managerthat I worked for, who was there
for a short time.

(38:35):
And one day after we hadreceived the, you know, the
blunt of his anger in the middleof the plant floor.
And I just was ready to just toquit.
It was just not a goodsituation.
And he looked at me and he said,and I'll never forget.
He said, you will learn as muchworking for bad leaders in your
career as you will fromGoodwill.

(38:56):
And this is an opportunity foryou to learn what not to do.
And it was in all seriousness,you know, he wasn't trying to
criticize this man.
He was just very matureperspective.
and he was right.
I learned a lot of what not todo and how it impacts people,
really how it impacts peoplewhen you treat them like that.
So,

Grant (39:13):
happens in life too.
I mean, good parents, badparents, good role models, bad
role models.
Yeah.

Jason (39:20):
I want to take a quick break from our interview and
tell the audience about aproduct that I absolutely love.
And I think some of them maybenefit from it.
There are a lot of differentplanning systems for
professionals to use to help usstay focused on our goals and
priorities.
And about two years ago, I foundone that also incorporates a
spiritual aspect to it.
It's called the monk manual.
Each planner covers three monthsin a compact size.

(39:42):
It has daily, weekly and monthlypages for setting priorities and
reflecting on the prior days,weeks and months.
I really recommend you check outthe monk manual website.
Now let's get back to it.
You've worked in secularenvironments and now you've
worked in ministry for a longtime.
So I'm going to throw out what Ithink it might be an assumption
and you tell me if it's right orwrong.
I think people who have neverworked in ministry full time,

(40:06):
assume that if you work in aministry, that you are
surrounded by people becauseit's other believers that the
workplace.
Honestly, perfect, but much,much better.
you get to be exposed to a muchbetter leaders.
The grass is way greener.
If you're working in a ministryenvironment people work harder,
people get along better and allthose boxes are taken.

(40:28):
I'm kind of setting you up forthis question.
Cause I remember some of yourinitial experience going into
ministry and I think you maybeyou had some of those
assumptions too.

Grant (40:36):
Yeah, I did.
I had my eyes opened wide open.
In fact, Gail and I sort ofgently, but somewhat
sarcastically.
Just talk about the workenvironment in mission.
Just to cut to the chase.
I have done some support raisingtraining, and I always tell in
every session I make sure I say,please, don't be the lazy
missionary that just coasts anddoesn't work hard.

(41:00):
And doesn't honor the peoplebehind your ministry and this
and that and this and that.
Because I think when you getinto the administrative side of
missions or a Christianorganization, I've heard pastors
say the same thing.
you see what Gail and I sort ofgently and sarcastically refer
to as the ugly armpit of youknow, the Christian
organization.

(41:20):
And That's not to say, I wouldprobably never go back to the
corporate world.
It's been.
Phenomenal experience for me andmy family and serving.
But you do run into people thathave been in ministry their
whole life that have never,really well, again, we sort of
call it the real world, it's it?
You know, we actually hopefullylive in the more real world, but

(41:41):
in ministry, but you just runinto a lot of people that are
lacking motivation and reallythis idea that the church and
para church organizations shouldbe the, the picture of
excellent.
I never forget being in acatalyst conference with Andy
Stanley and him saying that thechurch and church organization
should be the picture ofexcellence for the world, not

(42:03):
the other way around.
But we in the church and missionorganizations look at the world
sometimes as art, not the world,but corporate organizations as
the model of excellence.
And Andy's point was, we, thechurch should be the picture of
excellence for the rest of theworld.
Not the other way around.

Jason (42:20):
So it's not all sunshine and roses.
So, so with that idea in mind,how do you, you specifically,
how do you honor Christ in yourwork when you think about, doing
things for his glory and hishonor, and you're working for
him, what are some particularthings that you try to be
mindful of or careful about todo that?

Grant (42:39):
so many things, lots of things.
I don't think I can evenprobably think of them all, but
you know, I, I think in short itmay be a little bit cliche, but
the goal is to be as Christ,like as possible.
Right.
Some highlights I think.
And I probably mentioned most ofthem already, but some
highlights for me would bethings like treating people,
right?
Treating people the way that?
you would want them to treat youbeing honest.

(43:01):
You know, humble saying thankyou and expressing appreciation
a lot as, as in constantlyfinding opportunities to do it
doing what you say you'll do,which I mentioned earlier, doing
your best with excellence, whichwe talked about honoring the
time and accomplishments ofothers.
There's lots of them, but thoseare probably some of the
highlights from my perspective,

Jason (43:20):
Yeah, I think probably they all tie back to some degree
to humility.
Right.
And a lack of.
It sounds like, if you thinkabout how you honor others and
treat others, and remindyourself constantly that you're
working for the Lord and not forman, his scripture tells us

Grant (43:36):
Well, Jesus distilled it all down to two.
Right?
Love the Lord, your God, and,and treat others

Jason (43:42):
He sure did.

Grant (43:43):
the way that you, that you, would want to be treated as
well.
So

Jason (43:46):
So pivot over to another topic.
I'm a big believer in lifelonglearning the leaders anyone
should be spending their lives,learning and growing obviously
sanctification is that for abeliever and including growing
as leaders, what are some, oryour favorite leadership authors
or some books that you'verecommended that you've read and

(44:06):
you would recommend.

Grant (44:07):
Right.
Well of course, and we talkabout this in our growth groups,
the Bible being the mostimportant one by far, but I, I'm
not a voracious reader.
Like some people are I don'tread a lot of books, but
Visioneering written by AndyStanley was one that I read many
years ago when God first put onGail's in my heart, the idea of

(44:28):
being in missions and steppingaway from the corporate world
and climbing the corporateladder.
I taught a Sunday school adultdiscipleship class on that book.
And it had a pretty interestingimpact on some other people in
that group, as well as me.
So that was one that wasprobably the most influential in
my life,

Jason (44:48):
Visioneering right, is what it was titled by Andy
steel.

Grant (44:51):
it's called visioneering by Andy Stanley.
It's an old book.
I probably read it in the earlytwo thousands or even late
nineties.
And he had written it about thattime.
The purpose driven church byRick Warren was one that I got a
lot out of.
And of course he wrote thepurpose driven life, which I
don't think I ever read, but Iheard a lot about probably maybe
the last one I would mention isthe book I haven't actually

(45:12):
read, but I, I keep meaning to,I have it.
I have it downloaded.
It's a book called multiplied byFrancis Chan has the idea I'm
told and it's been recommendedto me so highly by a few people.
It's probably the next book I'llread.
And the premise of it, as Iunderstand is on how actually
it's a bit testimonial about howGod called Francis Chan away

(45:34):
from his whatever 15,000 personchurch into direct discipleship.
Well, I think 10 or 12.
People a year with the idea thatthen they would go start
discipleship groups.
And it's kind of the conceptthat we're using in our grow
groups.
Although I haven't read the bookand I don't know that anybody
involved in our groups haseither, but it's this idea that

(45:54):
we multiply the church most whenwe're in intimate discipleship
with a few other believers andthen sort of equip them to go do
the same thing.
And then the other one that didhave a huge impact was radical
by David Platt, it's also maybea bit testimonial.
we studied it as a whole teamwhen I was at M USA.

(46:15):
It's a missions book and it'skind of about how God showed
David.
I think he talks over and over.
Or at least in the sermons, I'veheard him preach on video about
the absolute deprivation of hisown heart and how we in America
get caught up in our comfortsand just ignore the rest of the

(46:35):
world and the great commission.
And a really challenging book.
Oh, and there's there is anotherone too.
The spiritual man by Watchmannee probably has had the most
impact of any book in my, my dayto day walk with the Lord.
It's 738 pages.

Jason (46:52):
That's a big book.

Grant (46:53):
It's very incredibly deep theology.
You probably shouldn't try italone.
Gail and I ran a Bible study outof our house in South Africa for
two years and only got twothirds of the way through the
book.

Jason (47:05):
Is he a modern author

Grant (47:06):
Now he was a Chinese guy that was persecuted in China, I
think in the, either the late 18hundreds or early 19 hundreds.

Jason (47:14):
okay.
So it's classic.

Grant (47:16):
Yeah.
I think it's out of print.
I think you can get it.
You can download it free on PDFnow.
I don't think it's even printedanymore.

Jason (47:23):
The spiritual man.

Grant (47:24):
Yeah, it's a great book though.
It's long and deep.
I mean, in fact, the way that wegot started as my friend came to
me and said I'm really notfeeling much.
Like I'm getting fed from ourchurch, which Gail and I thought
was a great church.
So we started this Bible studybecause he had read this book
and got stuck because hecouldn't understand it.
And so he and I started thisBible study together in our

(47:46):
house.
And like I said, we ran it for acouple of years and only got two
thirds of the way through thebook as a group.
But it had a phenomenal impactThe whole premise of the book is
the three parts of our person,body, soul, and spirit.
and then he just unpacks usingscripture, unpacks it from
there.
And it's amazing how many timesscripture talks about those
three components of our being?

Jason (48:08):
I have in the last several years.
Found for myself, some of theclassic, authors of I'd be the
19th century.
Maybe even some earlier one,some of the Puritans and it's
been incredible.
You know, to go back to yourcomment earlier, I think
sometimes the American churchmakes maybe the assumption, or
maybe we just have this bias.

(48:29):
It's like the church juststarted after the American
revolution.
Right.
But there's so much history.
And that God's done around theworld for 2000 years.
And obviously even before, butyeah, there's some really,
really good material by some menwho have been dead and gone for
a century or two or three thatthat we can tap into.
And it's deep, it's nottypically a superficial light

(48:50):
rating.
It's things that, it's going tochallenge you with some pretty
deep thoughts.

Grant (48:53):
I think Watchman nee was, if I remember right, he was
eventually martyred for hisfaith.
the guy that wrote the spiritualman,

Jason (48:59):
I appreciate the recommendation.
It's always important to hearfrom other believers and leaders
on what's impacted them.
If you were sitting down withsomebody who is a first time
leader maybe the first timesupervisor, what tips would you
give them as they start theirleadership journey?

Grant (49:15):
You know, one of them is, treat everyone with the same
level of dignity and respect,regardless of, their role in the
organization, from the presidentdown to the, the janitor you
know, treat others the way you'dlike to be treated, give credit
where credit is due.
Nothing drives me crazier thanto work on a big project and
then see a boss going into ameeting and take credit for the

(49:35):
work.
Like they did it themselves.

Jason (49:37):
I think as leaders, when something goes, well, we point
to the team and when somethingdoesn't go well, we got to look
in the mirror.
I think that's important.

Grant (49:44):
yeah, I was going to say almost the same thing.
When, when things go poorlyshoulder the blame, when things
go well, give the team thecredit.

Jason (49:52):
That's right.

Grant (49:52):
But you know, it's always been important to me to give
credit to those people that didthe work.
Even if I am the one, theleaders, which I sometimes have
been in, in the meeting with thesenior execs presenting it
always let them know whoactually did the work.
When you find team members doingthings well, recognize them for
it.
Preferably as close to the timethat you catch them doing it
right.

(50:13):
as possible.
Write frequent personal notes ofthanks and appreciation that I,
I think that's almost a lost artnow of writing a personal note
and people really appreciatethat.

Jason (50:22):
Yeah.
It's been a long time sinceI've, since I've done that or
seen somebody do it and you'reright.
It's pretty impactful.

Grant (50:27):
We talked about it earlier, but you know, admitting
your mistakes when you make themapologizing, if you need to, if
the situation calls for it Iwouldn't be a Good.
op ex guy, if I didn't saystrive for excellence your team
usually will as well, if youmodel that well.
And maybe lastly don't ask yourteam members to do anything that
you wouldn't be willing to doyourself or haven't done,

Jason (50:47):
that's right.
so final question before we wrapup, when you know, you're
probably closer to retirement inthe yard of the start of your
career

Grant (50:54):
For sure.
And close closer to death thanbirth as well.

Jason (50:58):
it's true.
And when you do retire fromfull-time professional work I
don't think as Christians, weever retire from.
Serving the church and servingthe Lord.
But when you retire from yourfull-time work what do you hope
people that you have worked withover the decades would have
remembered about you and yourwork with them?

Grant (51:18):
Yeah.
That's another great questionfor me, you know that as you
imply, that may not be too manymore years, but at the same time
we don't have any time frame.
I mean, I don't expect to stepaway anytime soon, especially
with two kids in college at themoment, but, um,

Jason (51:33):
I'm sure.

Grant (51:34):
It is you know, Jason, I think when you hit 60, there's
something about which I did acouple of years ago.
You suddenly start thinkingabout, and reflecting on
questions like this, and unlikea couple of your other
questions, I think I haveactually spent some time
thinking about questions thatare at least similar to this
one.
I think it's a good one for notjust people from a work

(51:55):
perspective, but in life tothink about, what is the legacy?
What, if anything, are peoplegonna remember me for?
And is it good or is it bad?
And you can go all sorts ofdirections with that.
But for me my workplace for thelast 15 years has been a global
mission organization, obviously.
And so I hope that's why I saidwhat I did earlier about you

(52:17):
realizing I was a believer inthe airport.
I hope people will have, firstof all, seen Jesus.
In some way reflected in me andmy life.
I hope they will think that byGod's grace, I have left the
workplace and my impact on theirlives better than when I
started.
I hope at least most of themwill think when they think back

(52:41):
on it, that they've enjoyedworking under my leadership and
that they maybe grew as aperson, maybe even as a follower
of Jesus while we were workingtogether.
And I suppose, lastly, I hopethat I will have given God most
of the glory and not taken toomuch of it from him, for myself.

Jason (52:58):
Yeah, in the end, that's the key thing that we honor him
in our work and point everythingback to him.
I will say my memories ofworking with you in the
professional side.
Will always be very memorable.
They were a key times in mycareer when I was starting to
grow as a leader and grow in thetechnical aspects of process
improvement.
And I'm very, very glad that Godput our paths together all those

(53:20):
years ago and that he's keptthem together.
Since then his or her familieshave stayed connected.
And we've been able to be areally small part of the support
that you guys have for being outon the field.

Grant (53:30):
That's very kind of you to say.
I, I don't think there could beany greater legacy if I can use
that word, then having peoplethat you.
You know, cross paths with, forconsiderable parts of your life.
There couldn't be any greaterlegacy than you know, even after
you're dead and gone or out ofthe workplace or whatever,

(53:51):
couldn't be any greater legacythan them.
Following earnestly after Jesus.
And I certainly see that in yourlife as well.

Jason (53:58):
Well, I'm glad to hear that.
Like you said earlier, there'scertainly times when I'm not as
disciplined and chasing afterhim with the kind of vigor
really probably ever, butcertainly times when it's a less
so than it should be, or couldbe, and has been at times it's
up and down a little bit inthose daily disciplines in that
passion for him.

Grant (54:17):
So it's a lifelong

Jason (54:18):
yeah, his grace covers those times.
So.
Well, thank you for taking thistime today.
I will also say that you andyour family are in my prayers.
I know my family is in yours andeach of your children are on my
prayer list and I pray for them.
Your adult children, yourgrandchildren, you and your wife
on a regular basis as I workedthrough my prayer list.
So definitely we'll continue tolift you up in prayer and praise

(54:41):
God for what he's done throughyou.
Professionally, as well as a dadand a husband, and now a
grandpa, which is a pretty coolthing.
First-time grandpa now for threeyears as well.
So appreciate your time today.
Thank you for joining us.

Grant (54:54):
Thank you for the opportunity.
I really appreciate it.

Jason (54:56):
And thank you to our audience for joining us again
today for our interview withgrant Blair, please like, and
subscribe to the podcast.
So that.
You will be notified of the nextinterview when it comes out.
Next month.