November 6, 2025 • 33 mins
In this inspiring episode of the Big Careers, Small Children podcast, Verena Hefti MBE speaks with Ahed Serhal, HR Director, La Prairie Switzerland, about how she transformed guilt into growth while building a global career and raising 10-year-old twins abroad.
Living without nearby family support, Ahed shares her honest reflections on balancing ambition and parenthood — from morning school selfies to open conversations with her employer and children. She reveals how learning to let go of guilt, plan with purpose, and communicate openly helped her find true balance and confidence as a working parent.
Together, they explore:
✔️ The mindset shift that helped Ahed turn guilt into growth
✔️ How to progress your career while living abroad without family support
✔️ Why being vocal about what you need builds trust and balance
✔️ How parenting can strengthen your leadership through empathy and structure
✔️ The power of partnership and planning when both parents travel for work
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
🔹 How to let go of guilt and define balance on your own terms
🔹 Why openness with your manager (and your children) is key to thriving
🔹 How to create systems that support both your career and your family
🔹 Why parenting can make you a more strategic, grounded leader
🔹 The one mindset shift that helps you progress without traditional support networks
Show Notes:
- Connect with Ahed Serhal on LinkedIn
- Learn more about beiersdorf.com
- Learn more about the Leaders Plus: Big Careers, Small Children podcast and explore additional resources at leadersplus.org.
- Follow Leaders Plus on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Bluesky.
- Connect with our CEO, Verena Hefti MBE on LinkedIn.
- Find out more about the work of Leaders Plus by signing up to our Newsletter.
Applications are closing in a few days for the Leaders Plus Cross-Sector Fellowship (Deadline: Tuesday 11 November). It is a nine-month leadership development programme supporting ambitious working parents in leadership or managerial roles to progress their careers while staying present for family life.
Our multi-award-winning Leaders Plus Fellowships support parents committed to career growth while enjoying family life. Expertly designed to keep parents on the leadership path, our programme tackles gender pay gap issues and empowers parents to thrive. Learn more here: Leaders Plus Fellowship.
More BCSC episodes you might love:
Episode 195: Control Isn’t Everything: Embracing Kindness in Life, Parenting, and Leadership
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Big CareersSmall Children Podcast. My name is
Verena Hefti. I believe thatno one should have to choose between
becoming a CEO and enjoyingtheir young children for much too
long. Amazing people like I'msure you listening right now have
found themselves stuck on thecareer ladder when they have children
(00:22):
and that leads to genderinequality in senior leadership because.
Because those people don'tprogress to senior leadership and
the same stale, often male,middle class people leading our organizations.
We must change this together.And I hope that many of you listening
right now will progress to themost senior leadership roles that
you like where you can makethe decisions that make our world
(00:43):
a better place. Outside of thepodcast, I am the CEO and founder
of the Social enterpriseLeaders Plus. We exist to help working
parents progress their careersto senior leadership in a way that
works for you and for yourfamilies. We have free events and
resources on leadersplus.orgwhere you can download helpful toolkits
(01:04):
such as on returning frommaternity leave, share parental leave,
securing a promotion, dealingwith workload challenges, or managing
as a dual career couple. Wealso have an award winning fellowship.
Community which is global forworking parents who have big dreams
for their careers. But don'twant to sacrifice their family. You'll
join an absolutely wonderfulgroup of people, a very tight knit,
(01:29):
supportive group of parentswho have your back. Together. You'll
explore what your careeraspirations are and you'll get advice
from senior leaders who arealso working parents about how to
achieve those aspirations.You'll get new ideas to combine your
hopes for your careers withyour hope for your family. And you
are supported by people whoare experiencing what you're experiencing
(01:50):
yourself. I'm really delightedthat a larger majority of our fellows
have made tangible changesfollowing the program, be that becoming
more senior in their roles,working shorter hours, having better
flexible working arrangement.They always impress me so much with
the courage that they instillin each other to do what is right
for them without apologizingfor having a family or apologising
(02:14):
for wanting that top job.Details are on leadersplus.org/Fellowship.
Today I'm. Talking to AhedSerhal about combining a big career
with twins, about travelinginternationally, about how she came
to peace with guilt, and whatshe's learned about progressing your
(02:39):
career in an environment whereyou don't have family nearby. Enjoy
the conversation. A very warmwelcome ahead to the podcast. Let's
start with you introducing whoyou are, what you do for work and
who is in your family.
Thank you Verena for having meon this podcast. So My name is Ahed
and I am an HR director at LaPrarie, looking after supply chain
(03:01):
and R and D. I'm originallyLebanese, born and raised in Beirut
city, but I have been out ofmy country for the past 13 years
living as an expat in twodifferent countries for 10 years
in the UAE in Dubai and forthree years in Germany. I am a working
mother so I have twins who are10 years old and since they were
born I've always been working.So I have lots to share with you
(03:24):
about how do I handle my dayto day activities as a working mom.
Wonderful. Let me ask you aquestion that I'm asking all of our
guests which is what did youused to believe about combining a
big senior career withchildren that you've changed your
mind on?
I always thought that it's notpossible to grow and develop further
(03:44):
within your career being amother. I grew up in a family where
my mom was a working mother.So I had a working mom, she worked
for the government and shestayed in the same job for 25 years.
And that was the picture I hadin mind of how does a working mom
look like? So it's a job thatrequires you to be out of the house
while the kids are at school.By the time they're back, you should
(04:06):
be back and you're availablefor them at all times and so on.
No business, travel, nothingas such. And I think as my kids started
growing and I startedreflecting on my childhood and on
how I looked at my mom whom Ireally consider as my idol, I realized
that she's done as much as shecould, but what I needed was slightly
(04:27):
different. So I do appreciateeverything she has done. But what
I really needed was not that Ineeded someone that I can look up
to, someone that I can learnfrom, someone that I can approach
when I needed help.Specifically work related, when I
was going to university, whatmajor do I want to go for, applying
for my first job, how do Iprepare myself for an interview,
and so on. It was never my momthat I reached out to on these topics.
(04:50):
And then I realized that Iwant my kids to reach out to me when
they have such questions. Iwant me to be their go to person
or of course their dad. Sothat's why I thought I need to make
something about my career sothat my kids can look up to me and
always approach me for anyquestions they might have. And that
was the shift to be very honest.
(05:11):
Interesting. Can you remindour listeners when you had the kids,
at what level roughly were youat and obviously you are now an HR
director in a global company.
So when I had the kids, I wasworking as an HR manager. I had my
boys. In 2015, it was verydifficult for me to go back to work.
(05:32):
I had twins. So it was reallydifficult living as an expat, no
family around, no support togo back immediately to work. So I
had to take a career break forone year and then I went back to
work afterwards. I have to sayI went back to work super motivated
and excited to be back to workafter one year. Not because I wanted
to get rid of my kids oranything as such. On the contrary,
(05:53):
I really enjoyed that yearwith them, but because I really felt
like I want to do somethingabout my life as well for myself
and for my kids. So I wasreally excited and super motivated
to be back to the workplace.So I rejoined the workplace as an
HR business partner.Afterwards I developed into a head
of rewards and performance forMiddle east and Africa. And that
(06:15):
is when I started traveling.So my kids always knew that mommy
is on a business trip. And Imade sure that they know. So it's
not like they wake up in themorning and they don't find me at
home. They knew that tomorrowmorning you're not going to see mommy
for the next few days and soon. Then I took over an HR director
role for Global functions. Andafterwards I moved to Germany where
(06:37):
I took over an HRBP role. Thefirst two years in Germany were mainly
focused on German market, sothere was no travel required. But
today with my role in La Prie,I'm constantly traveling. So they
also know that mommy's on abusiness trip. And I make sure to
plan everything before I leaveso everything is ready for them.
(06:58):
I'm interested. You might notfeel like it, but statistically you
are a bit of an outlier.Generally, there's an impact on working
moms, sadly. Specifically,they're less likely to progress to
a senior level after havinghad children. And I'm just interested
in your reflection. Are thereany decisions that you took or any
things that you did thatreally led to you being where you
(07:23):
are now with children in tow?
I mean, of course there'salways decisions that you make that
get you to where you are. Andin my case, there are two things
that I always think of. One,the decision to put yourself first
sometimes and get that guiltfeeling away. It's a personal decision
that you make. I mean, you canlive with it or you can decide to
(07:44):
let it go and just make surethat it's not haunting you at a certain
point of time. And the otherone is to really think about your
career and have thataspiration. So if you do not really
aspire to develop further andgrow within your career, it won't
work. And in my case, it wasboth. So at one point, I decided
that it's okay if I'm not withmy kids every single day. It's okay
(08:06):
if I miss a certain activityat school while my husband joins
it. It's still one of theparents are there. So I do not have
to live with that guiltfeeling. And on the other side, I
always wanted to developfurther in my career and have a wider
exposure and achieve lots ofthings throughout my journey. I think
these are two main decisionsthat I have made in my life that
(08:27):
really got me to where I am today.
What I really find powerfulabout your story is that you seem
to have come to peace withguilt. Am I misinterpreting that?
But just speaking to you,that's the impression I get. And
one thing our listeners oftentell me is that they feel a big sense
of guilt around the decisionto take roles that require international
(08:48):
travel means mommy is notthere in the morning, even though
there is sometimes another half.
Yeah.
How did you come to peace withthat? Or am I misinterpreting and
you're still wrangling with it?
You're absolutely right. Ithink I got to peace with it. I'm
a very reflective person, andat a certain point of time, I think
you need to prioritize. Youcannot have everything. So it's either
(09:10):
I need to be with my kids 100%so that I get that guilt feeling
away, or I need to balance.And I think that's the key. If you
manage to balance, theneverything should be fine. I can
share with you one thing thatI have done in the past that really
made me feel much better. At acertain point, I realized that I'm
not spending enough time withmy kids. They go to school in the
(09:31):
morning. I don't go to work. Iwork long hours. I'm back in the
evening, barely serve dinnerand then they're in bed. And I wanted
to do something different. Sowhat I changed. And it's a very minor
change, but it really made ahuge impact. I started dropping them
to school in the morninginstead of my husband, and that dropped
to school. We used to makelots of memories, so we used to put
(09:52):
our own music. We used to takeevery day a morning selfie and send
it to the grandparents. Wefunny pictures and so on, and. And
it was really a change maker.It really made a huge impact because
then we started building thesememories and it really helped me
to get away from that guiltfeeling because I felt like I'm still
doing something with my kids.And I think that's where the guilt
(10:14):
feeling comes in when you feellike you're totally disconnected,
you're not giving them time,you're not really present and so
on. So I think you really needto think about what works for you
because what works for memight not necessarily work for everyone.
So you need to think aboutwhat really works for you, what is
the balance that you can bringinto your life and that's really
what helps, helps you to getaway from that guilt feeling.
(10:34):
I think you're right. And youmentioned the word balance there.
I'm quite surprised that youmentioned that because you've got
twins. I don't. So I mighthave the wrong stereotype of how
that looks like, but I'mimagining it's a full on and also
obviously a very busyinternational job. What do you do
to have balance in your lifeand also not just for those two,
(10:57):
career and family, but alsofor yourself?
Yeah, I mean, I don't want tosound perfect. Of course. There are
days where I feel like I'munable to control everything. But
I try as much as possible. Iplan ahead of time. So I'm a really
good planner. So anything Ihave and it can be super, super small,
like even a business trip fortwo days, I plan for it in advance
(11:19):
and I consider everything. Notonly my business trip, what do I
want to do on that trip and soon, but also what does my family
need while I'm away and so on.I plan as well the timing. So I make
sure that when I'm away, it'snot a time that is important for
my kids. So if they havesomething at school or a special
doctor's appointment orsomething like that, I make sure
(11:40):
that I am present there. So Ithink planning is a very important
aspect. Making sure that youconsider everything, you plan everything
and try to minimize as much aspossible the impact of you not being
present. So I think that isthe biggest thing I would say, of
course, again, it's not alwaysperfect, but I'm happy with an 80%,
(12:01):
let's say.
I think that's a brilliantphilosophy. That's exactly what we
should do. I'm intrigued. Soyou mentioned you do the plumbing
also for the family. Can yousay a bit more about. Are there any
practical things that havehelped you that you do now, but you
didn't do five years ago.
Two things. One, I have a verysupportive partner and we have this
(12:23):
conversation regularly. So howdo you want to balance? And so on.
And I always make sure that heis there to back me up when I need
to. And two, I manage mycalendar with my partner. So whenever
I'm away, I make sure that heis informed ahead of time. So he
makes sure that he is presentand available and the other way around.
So if he is not there, he alsomakes sure that I'm aware and so
(12:44):
on. And that's how we makesure that at least one of us is there
and we support each other.Communication is key as well, not
only with my partner, but alsowith my kids. So when I'm not there,
I make sure that they areaware ahead of time. What is planned
for this week? What do youwant to have this week? Activities,
food, you name it, anything.Play dates, etc. So I make sure that
(13:07):
everything is also planned andthey are aware of it. They choose
it so they don't feel like,oh, it didn't happen because mom
is not there. So I thinkthat's the other thing. We constantly
talk and communicate and one.
Fear some of our listenershave are that the children will say,
well, actually I would ratherhave a mommy who does this. I mean,
to be completely honest, mychildren certainly do say, well,
(13:29):
X, Y and Z. Mom is coming onthe school trip today. Why are you
not coming? Well, actually I'mhaving a really interesting conversation
with Ahed today, for example,a real life example from my life
as of today. But what do youdo to get the kids to be at peace?
Yeah.
Or are they happy? Are theyproud of you? Would you say?
Yeah, my kids are very awareor they're very interested in what
(13:52):
we do. So if you ask themtoday what does mommy do, they tell
you that she works in hr andwhat is HR for them? Or the way I
have explained it, I take careof people who work for a company
and that by itself issomething that they're really happy
with. You know, like my mommytakes care of other people. So I
think it's about how youexplain to them what you do and so
on. On the other side, again,it's about communicating. If they
(14:15):
have an activity or thesequestions, Ex's mom is coming on
a school trip, why aren't youcoming? And so on. I think explaining
to them why you are unable tomake it is very important. However,
I think sometimes it'simportant that you are there. So
Every now and then, whenever Ihave the time, I try to drop by and
do something with them, eitherme or my husband. We try as much
(14:37):
as possible. It's not likewe're not present at all. So we try
when possible, to dosomething. The move to Germany was
actually a big move, bigchange maker for us as well, because
when we moved it was becauseof my job. And the kids asked, why
are we moving? I mean, we hada very nice life in Dubai. We had
our friends, our school, etc,so why are we leaving? And what we
(15:00):
did is we explained to themexactly why. And I said it's because
I have a good opportunity andbecause I want to develop and grow
further. So does Daddy. And wewant to make sure that we give you
the, the best life. If we stayin Dubai, then we all live happily
ever after and so on. We'renot saying that it's not going to
be a great life, but we're notgoing to be having the exposure that
(15:22):
we will have in Germany. Youwill not get exposed to new cultures,
new language, etc. Blah, blah.And it's exactly the same case for
you. If you stay in Dubai, youhave your friends, but you do not
learn German, you do not learnabout the German culture, you do
not experience the life inEurope and so on. So there is something
in it for you as much as thereis in it for us. And that's how we
(15:43):
made peace with the move orthe relocation to Germany. And that's
how they look into things now.There's always something for all
of us in it.
(19:06):
Absolutely. And I love the wayhow you communicate that to the children.
That's such a good way ofputting it. I might try that at my
end. You are also in Germanywithout anyone helping you, and especially
when you kid, you were inDubai previously without any family
nearby when the kids wereyoung, and I'm sure there were multiple
(19:28):
illnesses and dramas atnursery or school or wherever they
were. What have you learnedabout thriving or sometimes just
surviving with no help aroundor no family help around?
I can tell you, I mean, inDubai I did have the support, to
be very honest, but still notfamily support and so on. So at certain
(19:48):
points, yes, you had to bepresent despite the fact that you
have help at home. Germanywas, I would say, a better experience
when it comes to how to handlethings on my own, especially that
my husband also is frequentlytraveling, so he is not always available
to support and so on. And Ithink the key learning that I have
is to be vocal about what youneed and what you can do. I can give
(20:09):
you an example. When myhusband took over his job and started
traveling frequently, thefirst thing I did is I reached out
to my direct monitor and Isaid, I need your support. My husband
is going to be travelingfrequently during the day. The kids
are going to be at school, soI can easily be in the office and
so on. But I will need toleave every day early to pick them
up and I will continue workingfrom home. And we had that agreement.
(20:32):
So I was in the office everyday and in the afternoon I would
continue working from home.And that really worked. But if I
think about it, if I have notreally had that conversation, if
I did not really openly share,it wouldn't have worked. And I think
that is the biggest learningyou need to share. You need to be
open about some things, evenif it's private or personal. Sometimes
it's okay to share so that youcan make things easier for you and
(20:54):
for others and to set theexpectations right as well.
I completely agree. That'ssuch an important point with our
Fellowship programmes. Oftenthat's the crux. Getting people to
think about what is it thatthey actually need and then supporting
them to have theconversations. In your experience,
you're obviously seeing thisfrom both perspectives in that you
are working parents asking forthe things, but you're also a senior
(21:17):
leader who sees what landswell and what doesn't. I'm interested.
Have you ever seen peopleasking for support in a way that
didn't land well? What are themistakes to avoid? Or you haven't.
Haven't seen that so much.
I mean, of course, everyonehas his own way of doing things.
What I would say, yes, I'veseen things that didn't land well,
(21:40):
but it was because people werenot vocal or open about the exact
situation. And again, that ismy biggest learning, not only from
my own experience, but alsofrom others that I have observed.
Just be open about everything.You know, like, just be open, be
vocal. Do not shy away fromasking for what you need or sharing
(22:00):
what you need. And be open aswell about what you can do. So don't
set the expectations too highwhile it's not possible.
And then on the flip side,have you seen flexible working requests
that just get waved through?And everyone, even though it's a
new request, it hasn't beendone before, and everyone says, yes,
of course, that's neat you'redoing. Is there anything that can
(22:21):
be learned from those moments?
Again, everything has limits.You know, like, flexibility is great,
but as a person I think youneed to set your own boundaries.
Don't overdo things. And as acompany you also need to set the
boundaries. Yes, we're superflexible or as a leader, I would
say you're super flexible andso on, but you also have certain
boundaries. If we agree onthese boundaries as an employer or
(22:45):
as a leader and as anemployee, things should work really
smoothly.
It makes me think you've also.You're quite pioneering. I think
with job shares, which is not.When we talk flexibility, often people
think, yeah, you're allowed togo home five minutes earlier. Job
share is a different situationthat is challenging norms of what
(23:07):
a senior leader looks like.I'm just curious about how you make
people feel that it's okay totry a job share in an environment
where that's not common.
Again, I think it'scommunication. It is providing the
right tools to the people tomake sure that this works. It is
(23:29):
supporting where needed. Youcan implement a job sharing concept
anywhere around the world, butit really has to be supported by
the right tools, the rightmindset, the right culture. So there
are lots of things that youneed to put in place to make sure
that people really feelsupported and comfortable to step
into such a role. Sharing thesame job with someone else and the
(23:51):
way you communicate it, theway you position it is definitely
key.
I think there is somethingabout the performance management
element that scares people,doesn't it? Especially managers who
are not used to doing that. Doyou have any advice on how to performance
matter? So if there's someoneand even some of our listeners will
be unsure of, should I allow ajob sharing my team, how am I going
(24:11):
to manage it if one personunderperforms? I know you've worked
in different or the law isdifferent in every country. Yeah,
but just as a principle, isthere something that can be done
to alleviate that fear of notbeing able to performance manage
a job share well?
I think the key is to find theright partner. You know, like if
you want to step into a jobsharing concept, you need to find
(24:34):
the right partner. A partnerthat backs up or supports with your
areas of development and needsyour areas of strength. So the two
of you would basically be theperfect match in terms of like we
cover all the strengths andthe weaknesses. Let me say. I don't
know if that makes sense, butI think it's very important to make
(24:55):
sure that you have the rightpartner. You are aligned on the way
you want to work together onthe way you want to communicate.
If you have a team on the wayyou want to lead your team. Who does
what? You know, like, we don'twant to both jump into certain topics,
what I'm interested in versuswhat you are interested in. So I
think there are lots ofthings. It's like, for me, it's like
a contract that you put inplace, you know, so I do this, you
(25:16):
do that. We are aligned and wekeep each other informed. There's
a certain tool that we use, orthere's a certain routine that we
put in place to keep eachother updated and so on. But. But
the key is to make sure thatyou have the right partner. And if
you do, I think everythingthen is going to be much easier.
I completely agree. I want tocome back to your experience again
(25:36):
with raising twins and takeyou back a few years when they were
still very young and youdecided to go back to work. Is there
anything that you've donedifferently in terms of setting up
your home environment thatreally helped you balance your career
with twins, specificallycompared to what your friends might
(25:57):
have done who just had onetoddler running around?
I mean, I can't say I've donesomething differently. I think I've
done what every single parentdoes, you know, So I worked a bit
around my life to make surethat everything is done in the right
way. Working hours, planningahead of time. At a certain point,
(26:18):
I moved houses to be closer toschool and make sure that it doesn't
take me like an hour to dropthem to school every day, because
that hour can be used forsomething else with them. So I think
I've done what every singleparent would think of. But again,
the most important thing forme is that I was always open and
vocal about my situation. So Ihave twins today. My son is sick.
(26:40):
I need to be there for them.So I think that was the biggest thing.
I think that is true aboutbeing open because so often we're
not brave enough to do that.And actually, the support pours in
very often when you aresaying, what do you need? And also
what you're willing to give,because very often you need to say
that you're still ambitiousand you want to progress your career.
(27:01):
People may make assumptions ifyou don't do that and if you're not
very clear about your hopesfor the future. I obviously have
an agenda with this podcast,which is I want more people who have
care and responsibilities toget to senior leadership level. I
don't think it's right thatstatistically you're less likely
if you are a woman and havechildren, definitely has, especially
looking at UK data that has amassive impact. It's 26% in the UK
(27:24):
for a mother with twochildren. That is the pay gap on
top of the normal pay gap,which is in the UK is about 13% median.
And we don't quite know thedata for that. We've taken parental
leave or work flexibly, butthere are some factors there as well.
So taking all this intoaccount, do you have a big wish of
what needs to change? To havemore people with caring responsibilities
(27:46):
accessing senior decisionmaking roles in the same way that
people without caringresponsibilities do?
I think we're slowly headingthere. To be very honest, today's
world is quite different thanhow it used to be in the past. You
have more flexibility, there'smore talks and targets around diversity,
equity and inclusion. So allcompanies are really working on that
(28:08):
at the moment and so on. Westill have a long way to get there,
but I think think we're slowlymaking good moves and we're in the
right direction there. Whatneeds to happen, I mean, or my wish
of course is to move away fromthis stereotype that a working mother
is not capable of doing thisor she's busy with kids or she cannot
(28:31):
do it because of her kids oranything as such. I think I wish
that we can move away fromthis idea that kids are actually
binding or hindering theirmoms from developing further. Because
in my point of view, havingkids is actually the toughest job
that one can have. And that'swhere you learn how to be organized.
(28:54):
That's how you learn how toplan, that's how you learn, you know,
how to put things in place andget things done and prioritize and
so on. So I think it's a greatlearning and people should look at
it more as, as a positivething rather than a negative thing.
Somewhere in the back of mymind there is a blog post that I've
wanted to write for threeyears of these are all the skills
(29:15):
you can learn and this is howyou can sell them. And actually that's
why you should be proud of allthe things that you learned. Not
to say that people withoutchildren can't be fantastic leaders,
but it makes you morestrategic, it makes you less focused
on worried about the smalldetail and actually look up and focus
on what really matters. Andthat is what adds value to the company
quite often. We're comingtowards the end of our podcast, so
(29:38):
I would like to invite you toreflect on two or three practical
things that someone who islistening to this conversation today
and wants to progress theircareer but is working away from,
doesn't have to. Family helpperhaps is like you five, seven years
ago, if you have two or threethings that you think they could
(29:59):
try out this week to set theircareer path up for progression.
I think three things. One,accept that there will be ups and
downs. I think that's thefirst thing that I would say. And
it might sound that it'sperfect on my end, but I can tell
you it's not. Of course youwill have days where you feel like,
I don't want to do thisanymore. And I, you know, like, I
(30:20):
don't want to be a workingmother anymore. I just want to lay
in bed the whole day and donothing. So of course there will
be ups and downs, but it'simportant that these downs or after
these downs, you come backstronger and make sure that you get
the learnings from them andreflect. So one, accept that there
will always be ups and downs.It's not always perfect. So that's
(30:40):
the first. The second one is,as I said, be vocal about what you
can do and what you cannot doand about what you need, because
that's key. Be open, be vocal,be transparent. Make sure that you
get your things done while youalso deliver on what's expected from
you. So set the expectationsright, let me say. And three, is
to make sure that you have theright setup. And the right setup
(31:04):
is not a rule that works foreveryone. It's something that is
very specific to you as anindividual. You need to think about
what really works for me andwhat doesn't work and what I need
to get rid of. I can tell you,for example, with my husband traveling
frequently in the eveningsafter my kids go to bed, I really
have some me time. Orsometimes I just sit on my laptop
(31:26):
and focus on things that Ireally want to think of or, you know,
like presentations orbrainstorming certain things and
so on. Does that work foreveryone? Definitely not. Not every
mom can do that in theevening. They have other responsibilities
or other things to take careof. But for me, it works. That's
the time I have for myself toreally think about these things that
(31:46):
I need my me time on. I wouldsay really think about what is the
setup that I want to put inplace, what is the structure that
I want to have in my life andhow do I want to manage my personal
life versus my workrequirements and accordingly move
forward.
There's a lot of wisdom inthere. So thank you very much. Ahed,
it's really appreciate thatyou took the time to share your reflections
(32:09):
with us. If people want tofind out more about your company,
more about yourself, whereshould they head?
You should head to barsurf.comand that is where you find all the
information on our Careerspage. And in case you have any further
question, you can always reachout to us on LinkedIn to any of the
HR team.
Thank you very much.
(32:30):
My pleasure.
I really appreciate youlistening. Thank you so much and
I always. Love to hear fromour listeners. If you want to connect
with me on link LinkedIn justgo to Ferina Hefti and I'll be delighted
to hear your feedback and yoursuggestions or just. Have you say
hi. Likewise, if you do feelpassionately about gender equality
(32:51):
and you want to support afemale led podcast, then please do
leave a review and share itwith a friend. Just because at the
moment podcasting is still avery very male dominated environment
and most of the top chartingpodcast. Are led by men. I really
love all the people who'vejoined from the podcast our fellowship
(33:14):
program and if you want to dothe same then please head over to
leadersplus.org/Fellowship inorder to get access to a community
of support to help you combinean ambitious career with young children.
Together with people who haveyour back. See you next week.
Welcome to the Big CareersSmall Children Podcast. My name is
Verena Hefti. I believe thatno one should have to choose between
becoming a CEO and enjoyingtheir young children for much too
long. Amazing people like I'msure you listening right now have
found themselves stuck on thecareer ladder when they have children
(00:22):
and that leads to genderinequality in senior leadership because.
Because those people don'tprogress to senior leadership and
the same stale, often male,middle class people leading our organizations.
We must change this together.And I hope that many of you listening
right now will progress to themost senior leadership roles that
you like where you can makethe decisions that make our world
(00:43):
a better place. Outside of thepodcast, I am the CEO and founder
of the Social enterpriseLeaders Plus. We exist to help working
parents progress their careersto senior leadership in a way that
works for you and for yourfamilies. We have free events and
resources on leadersplus.orgwhere you can download helpful toolkits
(01:04):
such as on returning frommaternity leave, share parental leave,
securing a promotion, dealingwith workload challenges, or managing
as a dual career couple. Wealso have an award winning fellowship.
Community which is global forworking parents who have big dreams
for their careers. But don'twant to sacrifice their family. You'll
join an absolutely wonderfulgroup of people, a very tight knit,
(01:29):
supportive group of parentswho have your back. Together. You'll
explore what your careeraspirations are and you'll get advice
from senior leaders who arealso working parents about how to
achieve those aspirations.You'll get new ideas to combine your
hopes for your careers withyour hope for your family. And you
are supported by people whoare experiencing what you're experiencing
(01:50):
yourself. I'm really delightedthat a larger majority of our fellows
have made tangible changesfollowing the program, be that becoming
more senior in their roles,working shorter hours, having better
flexible working arrangement.They always impress me so much with
the courage that they instillin each other to do what is right
for them without apologizingfor having a family or apologising
(02:14):
for wanting that top job.Details are on leadersplus.org/Fellowship.
Today I'm. Talking to AhedSerhal about combining a big career
with twins, about travelinginternationally, about how she came
to peace with guilt, and whatshe's learned about progressing your
(02:39):
career in an environment whereyou don't have family nearby. Enjoy
the conversation. A very warmwelcome ahead to the podcast. Let's
start with you introducing whoyou are, what you do for work and
who is in your family.
Thank you Verena for having meon this podcast. So My name is Ahed
and I am an HR director at LaPrarie, looking after supply chain
(03:01):
and R and D. I'm originallyLebanese, born and raised in Beirut
city, but I have been out ofmy country for the past 13 years
living as an expat in twodifferent countries for 10 years
in the UAE in Dubai and forthree years in Germany. I am a working
mother so I have twins who are10 years old and since they were
born I've always been working.So I have lots to share with you
(03:24):
about how do I handle my dayto day activities as a working mom.
Wonderful. Let me ask you aquestion that I'm asking all of our
guests which is what did youused to believe about combining a
big senior career withchildren that you've changed your
mind on?
I always thought that it's notpossible to grow and develop further
(03:44):
within your career being amother. I grew up in a family where
my mom was a working mother.So I had a working mom, she worked
for the government and shestayed in the same job for 25 years.
And that was the picture I hadin mind of how does a working mom
look like? So it's a job thatrequires you to be out of the house
while the kids are at school.By the time they're back, you should
(04:06):
be back and you're availablefor them at all times and so on.
No business, travel, nothingas such. And I think as my kids started
growing and I startedreflecting on my childhood and on
how I looked at my mom whom Ireally consider as my idol, I realized
that she's done as much as shecould, but what I needed was slightly
(04:27):
different. So I do appreciateeverything she has done. But what
I really needed was not that Ineeded someone that I can look up
to, someone that I can learnfrom, someone that I can approach
when I needed help.Specifically work related, when I
was going to university, whatmajor do I want to go for, applying
for my first job, how do Iprepare myself for an interview,
and so on. It was never my momthat I reached out to on these topics.
(04:50):
And then I realized that Iwant my kids to reach out to me when
they have such questions. Iwant me to be their go to person
or of course their dad. Sothat's why I thought I need to make
something about my career sothat my kids can look up to me and
always approach me for anyquestions they might have. And that
was the shift to be very honest.
(05:11):
Interesting. Can you remindour listeners when you had the kids,
at what level roughly were youat and obviously you are now an HR
director in a global company.
So when I had the kids, I wasworking as an HR manager. I had my
boys. In 2015, it was verydifficult for me to go back to work.
(05:32):
I had twins. So it was reallydifficult living as an expat, no
family around, no support togo back immediately to work. So I
had to take a career break forone year and then I went back to
work afterwards. I have to sayI went back to work super motivated
and excited to be back to workafter one year. Not because I wanted
to get rid of my kids oranything as such. On the contrary,
(05:53):
I really enjoyed that yearwith them, but because I really felt
like I want to do somethingabout my life as well for myself
and for my kids. So I wasreally excited and super motivated
to be back to the workplace.So I rejoined the workplace as an
HR business partner.Afterwards I developed into a head
of rewards and performance forMiddle east and Africa. And that
(06:15):
is when I started traveling.So my kids always knew that mommy
is on a business trip. And Imade sure that they know. So it's
not like they wake up in themorning and they don't find me at
home. They knew that tomorrowmorning you're not going to see mommy
for the next few days and soon. Then I took over an HR director
role for Global functions. Andafterwards I moved to Germany where
(06:37):
I took over an HRBP role. Thefirst two years in Germany were mainly
focused on German market, sothere was no travel required. But
today with my role in La Prie,I'm constantly traveling. So they
also know that mommy's on abusiness trip. And I make sure to
plan everything before I leaveso everything is ready for them.
(06:58):
I'm interested. You might notfeel like it, but statistically you
are a bit of an outlier.Generally, there's an impact on working
moms, sadly. Specifically,they're less likely to progress to
a senior level after havinghad children. And I'm just interested
in your reflection. Are thereany decisions that you took or any
things that you did thatreally led to you being where you
(07:23):
are now with children in tow?
I mean, of course there'salways decisions that you make that
get you to where you are. Andin my case, there are two things
that I always think of. One,the decision to put yourself first
sometimes and get that guiltfeeling away. It's a personal decision
that you make. I mean, you canlive with it or you can decide to
(07:44):
let it go and just make surethat it's not haunting you at a certain
point of time. And the otherone is to really think about your
career and have thataspiration. So if you do not really
aspire to develop further andgrow within your career, it won't
work. And in my case, it wasboth. So at one point, I decided
that it's okay if I'm not withmy kids every single day. It's okay
(08:06):
if I miss a certain activityat school while my husband joins
it. It's still one of theparents are there. So I do not have
to live with that guiltfeeling. And on the other side, I
always wanted to developfurther in my career and have a wider
exposure and achieve lots ofthings throughout my journey. I think
these are two main decisionsthat I have made in my life that
(08:27):
really got me to where I am today.
What I really find powerfulabout your story is that you seem
to have come to peace withguilt. Am I misinterpreting that?
But just speaking to you,that's the impression I get. And
one thing our listeners oftentell me is that they feel a big sense
of guilt around the decisionto take roles that require international
(08:48):
travel means mommy is notthere in the morning, even though
there is sometimes another half.
Yeah.
How did you come to peace withthat? Or am I misinterpreting and
you're still wrangling with it?
You're absolutely right. Ithink I got to peace with it. I'm
a very reflective person, andat a certain point of time, I think
you need to prioritize. Youcannot have everything. So it's either
(09:10):
I need to be with my kids 100%so that I get that guilt feeling
away, or I need to balance.And I think that's the key. If you
manage to balance, theneverything should be fine. I can
share with you one thing thatI have done in the past that really
made me feel much better. At acertain point, I realized that I'm
not spending enough time withmy kids. They go to school in the
(09:31):
morning. I don't go to work. Iwork long hours. I'm back in the
evening, barely serve dinnerand then they're in bed. And I wanted
to do something different. Sowhat I changed. And it's a very minor
change, but it really made ahuge impact. I started dropping them
to school in the morninginstead of my husband, and that dropped
to school. We used to makelots of memories, so we used to put
(09:52):
our own music. We used to takeevery day a morning selfie and send
it to the grandparents. Wefunny pictures and so on, and. And
it was really a change maker.It really made a huge impact because
then we started building thesememories and it really helped me
to get away from that guiltfeeling because I felt like I'm still
doing something with my kids.And I think that's where the guilt
(10:14):
feeling comes in when you feellike you're totally disconnected,
you're not giving them time,you're not really present and so
on. So I think you really needto think about what works for you
because what works for memight not necessarily work for everyone.
So you need to think aboutwhat really works for you, what is
the balance that you can bringinto your life and that's really
what helps, helps you to getaway from that guilt feeling.
(10:34):
I think you're right. And youmentioned the word balance there.
I'm quite surprised that youmentioned that because you've got
twins. I don't. So I mighthave the wrong stereotype of how
that looks like, but I'mimagining it's a full on and also
obviously a very busyinternational job. What do you do
to have balance in your lifeand also not just for those two,
(10:57):
career and family, but alsofor yourself?
Yeah, I mean, I don't want tosound perfect. Of course. There are
days where I feel like I'munable to control everything. But
I try as much as possible. Iplan ahead of time. So I'm a really
good planner. So anything Ihave and it can be super, super small,
like even a business trip fortwo days, I plan for it in advance
(11:19):
and I consider everything. Notonly my business trip, what do I
want to do on that trip and soon, but also what does my family
need while I'm away and so on.I plan as well the timing. So I make
sure that when I'm away, it'snot a time that is important for
my kids. So if they havesomething at school or a special
doctor's appointment orsomething like that, I make sure
(11:40):
that I am present there. So Ithink planning is a very important
aspect. Making sure that youconsider everything, you plan everything
and try to minimize as much aspossible the impact of you not being
present. So I think that isthe biggest thing I would say, of
course, again, it's not alwaysperfect, but I'm happy with an 80%,
(12:01):
let's say.
I think that's a brilliantphilosophy. That's exactly what we
should do. I'm intrigued. Soyou mentioned you do the plumbing
also for the family. Can yousay a bit more about. Are there any
practical things that havehelped you that you do now, but you
didn't do five years ago.
Two things. One, I have a verysupportive partner and we have this
(12:23):
conversation regularly. So howdo you want to balance? And so on.
And I always make sure that heis there to back me up when I need
to. And two, I manage mycalendar with my partner. So whenever
I'm away, I make sure that heis informed ahead of time. So he
makes sure that he is presentand available and the other way around.
So if he is not there, he alsomakes sure that I'm aware and so
(12:44):
on. And that's how we makesure that at least one of us is there
and we support each other.Communication is key as well, not
only with my partner, but alsowith my kids. So when I'm not there,
I make sure that they areaware ahead of time. What is planned
for this week? What do youwant to have this week? Activities,
food, you name it, anything.Play dates, etc. So I make sure that
(13:07):
everything is also planned andthey are aware of it. They choose
it so they don't feel like,oh, it didn't happen because mom
is not there. So I thinkthat's the other thing. We constantly
talk and communicate and one.
Fear some of our listenershave are that the children will say,
well, actually I would ratherhave a mommy who does this. I mean,
to be completely honest, mychildren certainly do say, well,
(13:29):
X, Y and Z. Mom is coming onthe school trip today. Why are you
not coming? Well, actually I'mhaving a really interesting conversation
with Ahed today, for example,a real life example from my life
as of today. But what do youdo to get the kids to be at peace?
Yeah.
Or are they happy? Are theyproud of you? Would you say?
Yeah, my kids are very awareor they're very interested in what
(13:52):
we do. So if you ask themtoday what does mommy do, they tell
you that she works in hr andwhat is HR for them? Or the way I
have explained it, I take careof people who work for a company
and that by itself issomething that they're really happy
with. You know, like my mommytakes care of other people. So I
think it's about how youexplain to them what you do and so
on. On the other side, again,it's about communicating. If they
(14:15):
have an activity or thesequestions, Ex's mom is coming on
a school trip, why aren't youcoming? And so on. I think explaining
to them why you are unable tomake it is very important. However,
I think sometimes it'simportant that you are there. So
Every now and then, whenever Ihave the time, I try to drop by and
do something with them, eitherme or my husband. We try as much
(14:37):
as possible. It's not likewe're not present at all. So we try
when possible, to dosomething. The move to Germany was
actually a big move, bigchange maker for us as well, because
when we moved it was becauseof my job. And the kids asked, why
are we moving? I mean, we hada very nice life in Dubai. We had
our friends, our school, etc,so why are we leaving? And what we
(15:00):
did is we explained to themexactly why. And I said it's because
I have a good opportunity andbecause I want to develop and grow
further. So does Daddy. And wewant to make sure that we give you
the, the best life. If we stayin Dubai, then we all live happily
ever after and so on. We'renot saying that it's not going to
be a great life, but we're notgoing to be having the exposure that
(15:22):
we will have in Germany. Youwill not get exposed to new cultures,
new language, etc. Blah, blah.And it's exactly the same case for
you. If you stay in Dubai, youhave your friends, but you do not
learn German, you do not learnabout the German culture, you do
not experience the life inEurope and so on. So there is something
in it for you as much as thereis in it for us. And that's how we
(15:43):
made peace with the move orthe relocation to Germany. And that's
how they look into things now.There's always something for all
of us in it.
(19:06):
Absolutely. And I love the wayhow you communicate that to the children.
That's such a good way ofputting it. I might try that at my
end. You are also in Germanywithout anyone helping you, and especially
when you kid, you were inDubai previously without any family
nearby when the kids wereyoung, and I'm sure there were multiple
(19:28):
illnesses and dramas atnursery or school or wherever they
were. What have you learnedabout thriving or sometimes just
surviving with no help aroundor no family help around?
I can tell you, I mean, inDubai I did have the support, to
be very honest, but still notfamily support and so on. So at certain
(19:48):
points, yes, you had to bepresent despite the fact that you
have help at home. Germanywas, I would say, a better experience
when it comes to how to handlethings on my own, especially that
my husband also is frequentlytraveling, so he is not always available
to support and so on. And Ithink the key learning that I have
is to be vocal about what youneed and what you can do. I can give
(20:09):
you an example. When myhusband took over his job and started
traveling frequently, thefirst thing I did is I reached out
to my direct monitor and Isaid, I need your support. My husband
is going to be travelingfrequently during the day. The kids
are going to be at school, soI can easily be in the office and
so on. But I will need toleave every day early to pick them
up and I will continue workingfrom home. And we had that agreement.
(20:32):
So I was in the office everyday and in the afternoon I would
continue working from home.And that really worked. But if I
think about it, if I have notreally had that conversation, if
I did not really openly share,it wouldn't have worked. And I think
that is the biggest learningyou need to share. You need to be
open about some things, evenif it's private or personal. Sometimes
it's okay to share so that youcan make things easier for you and
(20:54):
for others and to set theexpectations right as well.
I completely agree. That'ssuch an important point with our
Fellowship programmes. Oftenthat's the crux. Getting people to
think about what is it thatthey actually need and then supporting
them to have theconversations. In your experience,
you're obviously seeing thisfrom both perspectives in that you
are working parents asking forthe things, but you're also a senior
(21:17):
leader who sees what landswell and what doesn't. I'm interested.
Have you ever seen peopleasking for support in a way that
didn't land well? What are themistakes to avoid? Or you haven't.
Haven't seen that so much.
I mean, of course, everyonehas his own way of doing things.
What I would say, yes, I'veseen things that didn't land well,
(21:40):
but it was because people werenot vocal or open about the exact
situation. And again, that ismy biggest learning, not only from
my own experience, but alsofrom others that I have observed.
Just be open about everything.You know, like, just be open, be
vocal. Do not shy away fromasking for what you need or sharing
(22:00):
what you need. And be open aswell about what you can do. So don't
set the expectations too highwhile it's not possible.
And then on the flip side,have you seen flexible working requests
that just get waved through?And everyone, even though it's a
new request, it hasn't beendone before, and everyone says, yes,
of course, that's neat you'redoing. Is there anything that can
(22:21):
be learned from those moments?
Again, everything has limits.You know, like, flexibility is great,
but as a person I think youneed to set your own boundaries.
Don't overdo things. And as acompany you also need to set the
boundaries. Yes, we're superflexible or as a leader, I would
say you're super flexible andso on, but you also have certain
boundaries. If we agree onthese boundaries as an employer or
(22:45):
as a leader and as anemployee, things should work really
smoothly.
It makes me think you've also.You're quite pioneering. I think
with job shares, which is not.When we talk flexibility, often people
think, yeah, you're allowed togo home five minutes earlier. Job
share is a different situationthat is challenging norms of what
(23:07):
a senior leader looks like.I'm just curious about how you make
people feel that it's okay totry a job share in an environment
where that's not common.
Again, I think it'scommunication. It is providing the
right tools to the people tomake sure that this works. It is
(23:29):
supporting where needed. Youcan implement a job sharing concept
anywhere around the world, butit really has to be supported by
the right tools, the rightmindset, the right culture. So there
are lots of things that youneed to put in place to make sure
that people really feelsupported and comfortable to step
into such a role. Sharing thesame job with someone else and the
(23:51):
way you communicate it, theway you position it is definitely
key.
I think there is somethingabout the performance management
element that scares people,doesn't it? Especially managers who
are not used to doing that. Doyou have any advice on how to performance
matter? So if there's someoneand even some of our listeners will
be unsure of, should I allow ajob sharing my team, how am I going
(24:11):
to manage it if one personunderperforms? I know you've worked
in different or the law isdifferent in every country. Yeah,
but just as a principle, isthere something that can be done
to alleviate that fear of notbeing able to performance manage
a job share well?
I think the key is to find theright partner. You know, like if
you want to step into a jobsharing concept, you need to find
(24:34):
the right partner. A partnerthat backs up or supports with your
areas of development and needsyour areas of strength. So the two
of you would basically be theperfect match in terms of like we
cover all the strengths andthe weaknesses. Let me say. I don't
know if that makes sense, butI think it's very important to make
(24:55):
sure that you have the rightpartner. You are aligned on the way
you want to work together onthe way you want to communicate.
If you have a team on the wayyou want to lead your team. Who does
what? You know, like, we don'twant to both jump into certain topics,
what I'm interested in versuswhat you are interested in. So I
think there are lots ofthings. It's like, for me, it's like
a contract that you put inplace, you know, so I do this, you
(25:16):
do that. We are aligned and wekeep each other informed. There's
a certain tool that we use, orthere's a certain routine that we
put in place to keep eachother updated and so on. But. But
the key is to make sure thatyou have the right partner. And if
you do, I think everythingthen is going to be much easier.
I completely agree. I want tocome back to your experience again
(25:36):
with raising twins and takeyou back a few years when they were
still very young and youdecided to go back to work. Is there
anything that you've donedifferently in terms of setting up
your home environment thatreally helped you balance your career
with twins, specificallycompared to what your friends might
(25:57):
have done who just had onetoddler running around?
I mean, I can't say I've donesomething differently. I think I've
done what every single parentdoes, you know, So I worked a bit
around my life to make surethat everything is done in the right
way. Working hours, planningahead of time. At a certain point,
(26:18):
I moved houses to be closer toschool and make sure that it doesn't
take me like an hour to dropthem to school every day, because
that hour can be used forsomething else with them. So I think
I've done what every singleparent would think of. But again,
the most important thing forme is that I was always open and
vocal about my situation. So Ihave twins today. My son is sick.
(26:40):
I need to be there for them.So I think that was the biggest thing.
I think that is true aboutbeing open because so often we're
not brave enough to do that.And actually, the support pours in
very often when you aresaying, what do you need? And also
what you're willing to give,because very often you need to say
that you're still ambitiousand you want to progress your career.
(27:01):
People may make assumptions ifyou don't do that and if you're not
very clear about your hopesfor the future. I obviously have
an agenda with this podcast,which is I want more people who have
care and responsibilities toget to senior leadership level. I
don't think it's right thatstatistically you're less likely
if you are a woman and havechildren, definitely has, especially
looking at UK data that has amassive impact. It's 26% in the UK
(27:24):
for a mother with twochildren. That is the pay gap on
top of the normal pay gap,which is in the UK is about 13% median.
And we don't quite know thedata for that. We've taken parental
leave or work flexibly, butthere are some factors there as well.
So taking all this intoaccount, do you have a big wish of
what needs to change? To havemore people with caring responsibilities
(27:46):
accessing senior decisionmaking roles in the same way that
people without caringresponsibilities do?
I think we're slowly headingthere. To be very honest, today's
world is quite different thanhow it used to be in the past. You
have more flexibility, there'smore talks and targets around diversity,
equity and inclusion. So allcompanies are really working on that
(28:08):
at the moment and so on. Westill have a long way to get there,
but I think think we're slowlymaking good moves and we're in the
right direction there. Whatneeds to happen, I mean, or my wish
of course is to move away fromthis stereotype that a working mother
is not capable of doing thisor she's busy with kids or she cannot
(28:31):
do it because of her kids oranything as such. I think I wish
that we can move away fromthis idea that kids are actually
binding or hindering theirmoms from developing further. Because
in my point of view, havingkids is actually the toughest job
that one can have. And that'swhere you learn how to be organized.
(28:54):
That's how you learn how toplan, that's how you learn, you know,
how to put things in place andget things done and prioritize and
so on. So I think it's a greatlearning and people should look at
it more as, as a positivething rather than a negative thing.
Somewhere in the back of mymind there is a blog post that I've
wanted to write for threeyears of these are all the skills
(29:15):
you can learn and this is howyou can sell them. And actually that's
why you should be proud of allthe things that you learned. Not
to say that people withoutchildren can't be fantastic leaders,
but it makes you morestrategic, it makes you less focused
on worried about the smalldetail and actually look up and focus
on what really matters. Andthat is what adds value to the company
quite often. We're comingtowards the end of our podcast, so
(29:38):
I would like to invite you toreflect on two or three practical
things that someone who islistening to this conversation today
and wants to progress theircareer but is working away from,
doesn't have to. Family helpperhaps is like you five, seven years
ago, if you have two or threethings that you think they could
(29:59):
try out this week to set theircareer path up for progression.
I think three things. One,accept that there will be ups and
downs. I think that's thefirst thing that I would say. And
it might sound that it'sperfect on my end, but I can tell
you it's not. Of course youwill have days where you feel like,
I don't want to do thisanymore. And I, you know, like, I
(30:20):
don't want to be a workingmother anymore. I just want to lay
in bed the whole day and donothing. So of course there will
be ups and downs, but it'simportant that these downs or after
these downs, you come backstronger and make sure that you get
the learnings from them andreflect. So one, accept that there
will always be ups and downs.It's not always perfect. So that's
(30:40):
the first. The second one is,as I said, be vocal about what you
can do and what you cannot doand about what you need, because
that's key. Be open, be vocal,be transparent. Make sure that you
get your things done while youalso deliver on what's expected from
you. So set the expectationsright, let me say. And three, is
to make sure that you have theright setup. And the right setup
(31:04):
is not a rule that works foreveryone. It's something that is
very specific to you as anindividual. You need to think about
what really works for me andwhat doesn't work and what I need
to get rid of. I can tell you,for example, with my husband traveling
frequently in the eveningsafter my kids go to bed, I really
have some me time. Orsometimes I just sit on my laptop
(31:26):
and focus on things that Ireally want to think of or, you know,
like presentations orbrainstorming certain things and
so on. Does that work foreveryone? Definitely not. Not every
mom can do that in theevening. They have other responsibilities
or other things to take careof. But for me, it works. That's
the time I have for myself toreally think about these things that
(31:46):
I need my me time on. I wouldsay really think about what is the
setup that I want to put inplace, what is the structure that
I want to have in my life andhow do I want to manage my personal
life versus my workrequirements and accordingly move
forward.
There's a lot of wisdom inthere. So thank you very much. Ahed,
it's really appreciate thatyou took the time to share your reflections
(32:09):
with us. If people want tofind out more about your company,
more about yourself, whereshould they head?
You should head to barsurf.comand that is where you find all the
information on our Careerspage. And in case you have any further
question, you can always reachout to us on LinkedIn to any of the
HR team.
Thank you very much.
(32:30):
My pleasure.
I really appreciate youlistening. Thank you so much and
I always. Love to hear fromour listeners. If you want to connect
with me on link LinkedIn justgo to Ferina Hefti and I'll be delighted
to hear your feedback and yoursuggestions or just. Have you say
hi. Likewise, if you do feelpassionately about gender equality
(32:51):
and you want to support afemale led podcast, then please do
leave a review and share itwith a friend. Just because at the
moment podcasting is still avery very male dominated environment
and most of the top chartingpodcast. Are led by men. I really
love all the people who'vejoined from the podcast our fellowship
(33:14):
program and if you want to dothe same then please head over to
leadersplus.org/Fellowship inorder to get access to a community
of support to help you combinean ambitious career with young children.
Together with people who haveyour back. See you next week.
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