(C-Suite Series) Jane Hollinshead - How to Navigate a Squiggly Career and Find Success on Your Own Terms - Big Careers, Small Children

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to the Big CareersSmall Children Podcast. My name is
Verena Hefti. I believe thatno one should have to choose between
becoming a CEO and enjoyingtheir young children for much too
long. Amazing people like I'msure you listening right now have
found themselves stuck on thecareer ladder when they have children

(00:22):
and that leads to genderinequality in senior leadership because.
Because those people don'tprogress to senior leadership and
the same stale, often malemiddle class people leading our organizations.
We must change this together.And I hope that many of you listening
right now will progress to themost senior leadership roles that
you like where you can makethe decisions that make our world

(00:43):
a better place. Outside of thepodcast, I am the CEO and founder
of the Social enterpriseLeaders Plus. We exist to help working
parents progress their careersto senior leadership in a way that
works for you and for yourfamilies. We have free events and
resources on leadersplus.orgwhere you can download helpful toolkits

(01:04):
such as on returning frommaternity leave, share parental leave,
securing a promotion, dealingwith workload challenges, or managing
as a dual career couple. Wealso have an award winning fellowship
community which is global forworking parents who have big dreams
for their careers but don'twant to sacrifice their family. You'll
join an absolutely wonderfulgroup of people, a very tight knit,

(01:29):
supportive group of parentswho have your back. Together. You'll
explore what your careeraspirations are and you'll get advice
from senior leaders who arealso working parents about how to
achieve those aspirations.You'll get new ideas to combine your
hopes for your careers withyour hope for your family. And you
are supported by people whoare experiencing what you're experiencing

(01:50):
yourself. I'm really delightedthat a larger majority of our fellows
have made tangible changesfollowing the program, be that becoming
more senior in their roles,working shorter hours, having better
flexible working arrangement.They always impress me so much with
the courage that they instillin each other to do what is right
for them without apologizingfor having a family or apologizing

(02:14):
for wanting that top job.Details are on leadersplus.org/Fellowship.
Today I'm chatting to JaneHollinshead about getting to C-suite
via Squiggly Career. Her storyof being one of the first people
working part time in a lawfirm in the 90s and why she argues

(02:38):
for people to see theircareers in faces and there's plenty
of advice for how to ask forflexible working request. Enjoy the
conversation.
Okay, so Jane Hollinshead. Iam currently the Chief People Officer
at Canary Wharf Group. Forthose of you that are less familiar

(02:58):
with what Canary Wharf Groupdoes - It's the landowner that owns
all the land and the spaces inthe district that is Canary Wharf.
It's extraordinary companythat's gone through a huge amount
of change in its 30 yearhistory, continues to go through
change. My responsibilitiesare as chief people officer for 1300

(03:21):
employees that we have in ourbusiness and I also have group leadership
responsibility for ESG agenda,for our customer experience agenda,
which is how we engage withour existing customers and future
customers, learning anddevelopment and group legal function.
So quite a bit on your plateand we should say to our non UK listeners,

(03:46):
Canary Wharf is this bigfinancial district in London and
when you walk it's. Maybeit's. You're now making a face which
our listeners can't see. Maybethat's not the right definition.
But basically it has lots ofvery tall raised buildings and you
can see it from very far.
It's true. I mean it is adiversified district, so actually

(04:06):
it's probably well describedas being a city within a city. So
whilst we do have tenants whoare from financial services, we also
have three and a half thousandresidents that live here. We have
a build to rent operation withmore buildings coming on stream for
occupation over the next 12months. We've just been voted as

(04:30):
being the number one retaildestination in the UK too. We have
320 retail outlets and fiveshopping malls and we're also developing
2 million square foot of lifesciences in one of our new assets
which is called North Quay. Soactually quite a lot going on.

(04:53):
Quite a lot going on. And I'vebeen lucky enough to be at your offices
for our last two seniordirectors workshops for the fellowship
program. So thank you verymuch. Yes. And I live 20 minutes
on the DLR, as in the localtrain from Canary Wharf in Lewisham.
So also local I should call myshopping more.
Yeah. You're a neighbour.

(05:14):
Absolutely. So your childrenare grown up?
Yeah, yeah, my children aregrown up. So I have two boys, one
of whom is 24 and the other is26. So I had my children relatively
young in a previous life whenI was a lawyer.

(05:35):
So I want to pick up on that.Having children young, I think a
lot of people say that thatcan have a real impact on their long
term career trajectory. Youended up as a chief people officer
in this very significantorganization. My aim as a social
entrepreneur is to help morepeople have your trajectory. Do you

(05:58):
have any? I'm sure you can'tput 26 years experience in a sentence
or two, but what is it do youthink that made the difference? Why
did you end up in that role?
What, The role that I do nowcompared to the role that I started
off with. I mean, it's. It'san interesting question that probably
needs some in depth therapy toidentify the answer. I think in part,

(06:21):
I was never 100% clear aboutwhat I wanted to do in my career.
So when I started off, Iactually wanted to go to art school.
That was my great ambition. I,at the very last minute did a huge
U-turn and read law atuniversity and was absolutely convinced

(06:43):
that I was only going to do adegree in law and then I was going
to go back to art. And then Idecided that maybe I qualify as a
lawyer, but then once Iqualified, I go back to art. So I
think what was incrediblyhelpful, both in terms of my career
trajectory and also havingchildren, is that I always felt a
bit like I was only passingthrough on the way to something else.

(07:06):
It hadn't ever been mylifelong ambition to be a lawyer
in an international law firm.And I think in some ways I was also
very well supported by thelegal profession, which at the time
was actually relativelylinear. So if you wanted to do different
things and you wantedflexibility in your overall career

(07:27):
development, you probably hadto step outside of law to make that
happen. And I think it doescome back to how you think as a woman
in terms of your ownprofessional development, whether
you want to have a squigglycareer, and that's how I describe
my own career, is actuallybeing very squiggly because it hasn't
built within it, Flexibility.You know, you can move on and off

(07:52):
ramps depending on what allthe other things are that are going
on in your life at that time.And I think also going into a profession
like law as it was, and Isuspect it's really, really different
now, it was very, verydemanding. And so actually having
the sort of mental backstop ofthinking I might not be here for

(08:16):
the long term gave a certainlevel of independence and confidence
in terms of some of the biggerdecisions I was making about when
I was going to have a family,how I was going to work when I did
have a family, which turns outto be quite helpful. Not having that
lifelong ambition only to be alawyer was quite beneficial, I think,
on hindsight.

(08:36):
Interesting. And you mentionedthe word off-ramp. Can you describe
an example of a time where youfelt you were consciously choosing
to be off ramp?
Sure. So I worked, like manylawyers in the 1990s and probably
now, to pretty insane hourswhen I was A junior lawyer. And I

(08:59):
was probably my own worstenemy in terms of that work ethic.
I don't think it was anyoneelse that was imposing it on me.
I just felt as a junior femalelawyer in the city, that's the ethic
that was needed in order toflourish and survive. But clearly
it was absolutely incompatiblewith having a family. So when I was

(09:21):
pregnant with my eldest child,I made a decision that it was incompatible
with the work I was doing. SoI was incredibly fortunate to have
an extraordinarily supportivepartner who I worked for at the time
who was prepared to back me towork three days a week. So, and this

(09:42):
was in 1998, so it's a long,long time ago. And that was a really
pivotal period in terms ofmoving off ramp. If I hadn't gone
off ramp, I would have leftthe legal profession at that point,
because it was more importantto me that I got to spend time with

(10:04):
my kids when they were very,very small than it was waiting, postponing,
compromising, in order to keepon committing to my legal career
at the time. And there's somany factors that go with that. I
was also incredibly fortunatethat I had some phenomenal clients

(10:24):
who were also reallycomfortable in backing me to work
on a three day a week. Andwhen you've got within, you know,
you're thinking about yourstakeholders when you make decisions,
you know, the ones that areactually paying the legal fees are
actually quite pivotal andcompelling when you're having the
conversation with thepartnership about, I still have real

(10:47):
value in this business, evenworking on this flexible arrangement.
And in truth, it wasn'tflexible. You know, I was being super
flexible. And it was only parttime by title, not part time by content.
And that really, really made adifference. So it was unusual, but

(11:08):
it was facilitated by somegreat clients, a very, very supportive
partner. I did have anexcellent team around me at the time
and a lot of support at home,but it was still off ramp.
It's coming through reallyclearly how you feel very lucky about

(11:28):
support you've received, butyou still had to be the one having
the confidence to ask thequestion about getting that. How
was that for you? Was itsomething that you lost sleep over,
or did you just one day say,okay, I'm gonna ask if I can work
three days?
And that, no, I didn't losesleep over it. I think it comes back
to the conversation we werehaving just before about maybe another

(11:51):
way of putting it is part ofhaving a sort of squiggly career
mindset is never minding Toomuch not caring too much about a
certain outcome, because Ithink if you are not overly invested
in any one outcome, you're farmore confident in walking away if

(12:13):
you don't get the outcome thatyou seek. And from my perspective,
although I was very lucky andvery fortunate in terms of the ecosystem
that I had within the lawfirm, it wasn't the be all and end
all to me. And so it wassomething that I was very happy to
lean in and ask for, becausewhat did I have to lose? And in truth,

(12:33):
I can't remember. I mean, it'sobviously quite a long time ago,
but I can't remember reallycaring a huge amount about if they'd
said no. Because if they saidno, I would have probably, you know,
picked my bags up and thoughtabout what I was going to do next.
And I think the reallyimportant thing for me coming out

(12:53):
of that is that the loyaltythat was created by, you know, the
partner saying to me, yeah,we've got you covered on this and
we trust you to do this, eventhough I'm not entirely sure whether
there'd been any other femalepartners in my firm that had done
it before, is that I was very,very dedicated to that business for
a long time after because ofthat demonstration of trust that

(13:15):
they'd had in me.
And today you are in a rolewhere you do have overall responsibility
for signing off. I mean, I'msure you're not signing off it personally,
the flexible workingarrangement, but you do have that
power to set the direction. Iwant to ask you something else. So
we run fellowship programs forworking parents to support them to

(13:37):
progress their careers againstthe odds. And there are still tons
of odds. If you look at thedata, mothers with caring responsibilities
progress less. They havebigger gender pay gap than other
women. There's anecdotalevidence of fathers who work flexibly
being impacted in a careerprogression. It's very different
between organizations. But wehave, for example, 20% of our working
parents work in the NHS, wherethe structures and systems are. It's

(14:00):
harder to get to a yes, let meput it that way politely. And so
thinking about yourexperience, but also thinking about
being at the receiving end ofthese flexible working requests,
what are the mistakes peopleshould avoid making when they're
asking for something likethose three days instead of five?

(14:21):
I think it's always a goodplace to, to start in your thinking,
to work out theinterdependencies that exist in any
negotiation and being able tothink in the shoes of the other person
that's on the Other side ofthe conversation is incredibly helpful.

(14:41):
And for me, there's an aspectof what does the individual want
in terms of their flexibility,but also recognition that there is
displacement definitionallyand commonly created by that change.
And does the displacementthat's caused by that shift in working

(15:06):
patterns put more pressure onyour colleagues? And so I think thinking
about the individual versusthe team is always something that
I would imagine, woulddemonstrate a certain level of maturity
and nuance that as an employerwould make you take seriously that

(15:30):
type of thought process. Ithink also recognizing what the demands
of the employer perspective isalso something that is sometimes
missing. And when I think backto, you know, my own personal circumstances
when I did work part time, andI 100% get that the world has changed

(15:54):
an enormous amount and thatwhen I did it, I was more of an outlier
and an anomaly than, you know,the society and the world of work
that we find ourselves intoday. I was always very mindful
of not overburdening thosearound me with the consequences of
the decision that I waschoosing to make for my own personal

(16:14):
shift. So I think that wouldbe something that in the position
that I find myself in now,would give me some degree of reassurance
about the role that thatperson would play within the organization
and in the bigger ecosystem.
Yeah, I think there'ssomething that comes through from

(16:37):
your answers which is abouttaking responsibility for the system
so understanding like you did,that the clients are the ones that
will need things to bedelivered and thinking through how
you can make that work.
Yeah.
Clearly you somehow broughtthem on board because they were supportive
of this arrangement.
Yeah, that's a very goodsummary that summarized it far better

(16:58):
than I explained it. And theimpact on your colleagues and your
team members. Team wellbeingis a consideration as well as individual
well being.
Absolutely. And I've seen manyexamples in the parents, we support
that when they started talkingto their teams rather than coming
up, you know, saying this isthe solution I want, but actually

(17:19):
talking to the teams,understanding what the other people
think and want to do, andcoming to solutions collectively,
it can be really a helpful approach.
I think also that the otheraspect of it is the ongoing fluidity
of the flexible workingarrangements. So again, maybe this

(17:41):
is something that's moreapparent to me with hindsight, you
know, because I my childrenare no longer children. But it's
not a static arrangement.Caring responsibilities by their
very nature will fluctuate.And I think if people are only ever
thinking of one specific pointin time, then it's not recognizing

(18:05):
that this is actually quite along term iteration. And it's, to
your point, around what's offramp and on ramp. And you know, in
some ways I felt that I was alot more grateful for being around
my children when they wereteenagers. And that's when genuine

(18:26):
flexibility matters, becauseyou cannot predict when your teenage
children are going to needyou, because they probably can't
predict when they're going toneed you. And that is in some ways
infinitely more difficult tomanage because of the unpredictability
at that age, as opposed tobabies, which is, you know, bar catastrophes

(18:50):
and emergencies, is actuallyrelatively able to anticipate. And
when I had children that wereolder, were teenagers, at that point
I was running my own business.I was neither a lawyer nor was I
doing this role because I setup my own business, which I then
ran for six years where I wasrunning my own consultancy practice.

(19:11):
And at that point I had utterflexibility in terms of how and where
and when I did work, which isprobably running in parallel to the
on ramp, off ramp conversationwe're having. And my definition of
what a squiggly career mightlook like.
I think it's really empoweringto hear how you had all these different

(19:32):
directions in your career thatwere fulfilling in different ways
at different points. I guessthe question in my mind is why you
ended up in a C suite role orhow you got onto that on ramp again.
Because when you look at theFTSE Women Leaders Review, that's
where there are massiveamounts of women missing. And one
of the root causes is that thestopping progression around age 35,

(19:56):
40, when children are young,and then never getting onto that
on ramp again. What happenedin your case, how did that on ramp
come about?
In practical terms, it cameabout because I'd been running my
own business, as I said, forfive or six years. That business
had been a one womanconsultancy business where I had
been working with various realestate industry, not for profits

(20:19):
listed PLCs, advisorycompanies. And I was introduced to
the chief exec of Canary WharfGroup, who was relatively new to
the UK and new to Canary WharfGroup as a business. And having learnt
about what his plans were,what some of the opportunities and
challenges were, I decidedthat it was a one off opportunity

(20:43):
that I was never going to getagain. And I was in the very, very
fortunate position of beingable to say, yeah, I'm in, I'll do
it. And at that point I woundup my consultancy business to jump
into C suite, big corporatelife again. And I do think it's,
this is all linking in,threading into the sort of theme

(21:04):
of this conversation, youknow, which is some elements of it
are opportunistic. I had hadmy children relatively young age,
not very young age, but arelatively young age. So at the point
when I hit my early 50s, I didhave the autonomy and the freedom
to decide that I want to jumpback into mainstream corporate life.

(21:26):
And I think there's a lessonin that because it also goes back
to what I was saying aboutflexibility not being a static issue.
And I think for me, one of thereasons why I had children early
is because I wanted to createas much autonomy when I was older
to go do all the things that Imight not be able to do when I was

(21:49):
in my 30s. And this whole gigof being a working woman is I wonder
how much we think about thefact that this is a long game and
we're in it for a long game.And so if you any think or are only

(22:09):
absorbed by what's going tohappen in the next two years or three
years, you might not bebuilding a plan for what you might
want to do in 20 years. And soif you then layer on top of that
that agility in terms of howyou stay on track in the intervening
period, then I think it justgives some tenure and resilience

(22:31):
to your career over a longerperiod of time. And in my case, that
did enable me to have theopportunity to jump at this as a
role much later on in my life.And in all truth, if I'd taken a
very linear role of just beinga lawyer for my entire working career,
I probably wouldn't havelasted the course because I either

(22:52):
would have burnt out or Iwould have given up one or the other.
So having that inbuiltresilience and that approach of not
caring too much, I think givesyou the tools to create longevity
in the trajectory that isyour, Your own personal career. That
might just be my own personal experience.

(23:13):
I think you're absolutelyright. Aviva Wittenberg Cox, who
I've also interviewed for thispodcast, talks about the phases of
a women's career, and she saysexactly that you need to accept that
there are different phases andthat if you ever come to one of those
mentor networking events, Iwill introduce you to her. She's
fantastic. And she said the50s are the golden age. I think for

(23:34):
those of us who are children,slightly later might be slightly
later, but we'll all work till70 anyways, probably, so that's something
to look forward to. Well, ifyou like working, that's okay.
I think there's another bitwhich does augment that point. And
again it comes back to notbeing too linear and taking a few
risks, which is I don't thinkI would be in the position of doing

(23:59):
this job I'm doing now if Ihadn't built over the preceding 30
years a whole different set ofskill sets. Because I think the more
senior roles that you do,technical expertise is less important.
It's more about have you gotgood judgment, are you sufficiently

(24:24):
agile to join dots on thingslike risk or opportunities. And that
comes. And you can talk aboutthat being intuition, but in truth
intuition is just a wholeseries of experiences that you've
accumulated over the years.And I also served as a non exec on
quite a few boards of veryvery different organizations. You

(24:47):
know, one was a big G15housing association in London, one
is fund manager in realestate, one was People Advisory board.
And so when you startcollecting all that experience over
the years, it does give you areal wealth of examples and incidents

(25:09):
to fall back on when you're inthat senior role where you do need
to draw on that experience toexercise good judgment. And also
the other thing is that Ithink by the time you hit your 50s,
you've probably been throughdifferent degrees, but a whole series
of different crises. And in mycase I was a practicing lawyer during
the financial crisis, whichwas actually pretty hard work.

(25:31):
That sounds like an understatement.
And knowing that things arevery rarely as awful as you might
imagine, but equally thingsand never quite the nirvana you hope
for does give you a certainbit of grit in the system that once
you get older you can deployit very similar to parenting.
You strike me as someone veryresilient just by having carved your

(25:54):
own path in the way that youdid. Was that a natural thing or
is it something that youconsciously trained yourself to be?
And if yes, how.
I suspect I'm probably quiteresilient to start with. There was
a couple of instances where Irealized that I wasn't quite as resilient

(26:15):
as I thought. One, when I wasactually had small children where
I was still practicing as alawyer and I didn't see the warning
signs and I actually got veryill and it was something that affected
my immune system and I had totake six months out of work and I
suspect it was because I wasjust trying to be everything to everyone

(26:35):
all at once and I was the onethat was suffering. And I think that
was a bit of a Damascenemoment for me because I realized
that if you are going to Beresilient. You've got to turn the
volume down on quite a lot ofthings, otherwise you will just fall
off the edge of a cliff. Thatwas quite game changing for me because

(26:55):
I realized that I wasn'tcompletely indefatigable. And if
you're going to have a longand successful and fulfilling career,
you do have to treat it as amarathon and pace yourself. So I
think there was that whichmade me recalibrate a bit in terms

(27:16):
of what resilience meant tome. I think the other thing is, and
it's. I'm sure there's so manypeople that you've spoken to that
say the same thing. I thinkchildren make you resilient, they
make you grounded. You realisethat there's very few things in your
life that are going to matteras much as your children and it just

(27:39):
completely repositions yourfocus, I think. And that definitionally
can make you a bit moregrounded and resilient about how
you approach your career. It'snot all about you, the individual
anymore. It's, you know,there's other people that you have
to be responsible for.

(28:01):
Yeah. It really strikes me howyou share how confident you were
in negotiating and saying inyour head when you would walk away,
which was because you hadother things in your life that were
important by the sound of it,I mean, or reckless. Well, it worked
out in the end, didn't it?Yeah. I'm struck by what you're saying,

(28:22):
is that having that C suiterole, it's been absolutely critical
to have those differentexperiences that you got because
you weren't saying this is theone path and let's just take one
step after another up thecareer ladder? Yeah. That's really
lovely to hear. Thank you forsharing. Was there any stigma that

(28:43):
you had as a result of beingthe first person to trial a new arrangement
or the first person to change?I'm probably not the first lawyer
to.
Leave a job and do something else.
But, you know, I'm sure a lotof your peers kept up on that normal
in quotation marks, career ladder.
Well, they were probablybetter lawyers than I was.
I can't comment on that.

(29:05):
No. I didn't face stigma aboutthe way I chose to work when I was
working part time at all. Ithink probably somewhat naively,
I deluded myself into thinkingthat if I was going to do it as a
role model, then there'd be aninflux of other female lawyers that
did it. But, you know, thatwasn't something that really took

(29:28):
off during the time that I waspracticing. I think there is definitely
a sentiment and maybe less sonow, but when I was transitioning
from working in privatepractice as a lawyer into mainstream
corporate world or consultancyworld or however you want to describe
it, and possibly a UK thingthat it's very hard for lawyers to

(29:53):
make that jump out of privatepractice. And there was a fair amount
of challenge about whetherthis was a sensible thing to be doing.
And I did get lot of very wellmeaning advice about the fact that
it was a bad idea and I reallyshouldn't be doing anything as rash
as, you know, setting up myown business as a consultant. And

(30:16):
that consultant was not in anyway, I didn't have a practicing certificate.
I mean, I was making a careerchange completely. That was a little
bit disappointing becauseobviously sometimes the very nature
of careers is such that theydon't enable you to take things to
the next level or to move in amore tangential way. I think in my

(30:38):
case it probably justencouraged me more to make it work
because I do think that thereare so many women out there that
are building up fantastictransferable skills but they quite,
sometimes they don't recognizethat they are transferable and they're

(30:58):
kept within a silo and, andthere's a huge amount of capital
in the transferability ofthose skills and you know, so much
that you can do with them ifyou reflect on what they might be
and where you might take them.
Looking back, is there anyadvice that you would give to your
younger self? Anything you'ddo differently?
I wouldn't get worked up aboutabsolutely everything. I wouldn't

(31:20):
sweat the small stuff. Iabsolutely wouldn't try to be the
perfectionist that was soimportant to me when I was in my
20s. I would have worked hardto be better timekeeper. One of my
Sons, still aged 24, tells mehow I was always late in the school

(31:43):
playground, which makes mefeel absolutely awful.
Oh, it makes me feel awfulbecause I said that to my mother
all the time. It makes me feelreally awful actually - shouldn't
be saying that.
And you know, just to enjoywhat you do. Don't do something if
it doesn't give youfulfillment unless there is such

(32:05):
a critical driver why you haveto continue to do it, you know, and
I think I don't say thatlightly because it's a really, really
big deal these days. You know,cost of living is a huge problem.
It's, you know, the jobopportunities aren't there and you
know, people clearly have toconsider the financial constraints
on the decisions that they canmake. And that's, you know, I think

(32:29):
that's, that's very, verydifficult because that's a great
source of stress, isn't it?You know, if you don't have the,
to be in the privilegedposition where you can actually look
for something that gives youmore flexibility because it has such
an economic impact on what youwant to provide for yourself and
your children, then you're notreally in control. And, you know,

(32:50):
that's, that's one of thegreat causes of stress. But, you
know, I guess the other sideof that is don't underestimate your
value.
Excellent advice. So ifsomeone is listening to this and
can identify with this pictureof being stuck in a rigid career
ladder, in a rigid role,perhaps, and they want to start doing
something about it, butthey're so busy that they can't find

(33:12):
the headspace. What would be asimple five minute things they could
do this week to get started,to move into a more appropriate class.
I was thinking about this andthere's a very good friend of mine
who I'd known in aprofessional capacity as well as
a social capacity. And I spoketo her when I was thinking of, you

(33:35):
know, making a big jump, and Igot her to do the analysis of what
she thought that I would begood at in terms of next steps. Because
I think those that know youwell are far kinder and more generous
about your skills andattitudes than you are. And I think

(33:58):
if you are really lacking thebrain space or the time for reflection
about what are your strengths,what are your skills, what are those
possible big leaps that youcan make in a very different direction.
Get someone else to do it foryou, because the chances are it's

(34:18):
going to be much moreobjective and probably much better
for your own self confidenceto see someone else write that about
you than you write that aboutyourself. And for me, that was quite
a big point in terms of someof the decision making that I made
about what I was going to doin the next stage of my career to

(34:41):
have that third party input.
That's such excellent andpractical advice. Thank you very
much. If people want to findout more about your work, your organization,
where should they head?
Well, Canary Wharf group isgoing to be all over the Internet,
LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, TikTok.

(35:02):
Yeah, you're the secondpodcast guest today that mentioned
TikTok.
I feel like I really need,believe me, that's not something
that I'm all personally allover, but that's how you can find
out about Canary Wharf Group.And I'm on LinkedIn too.
Lovely. It's been such apleasure Jane to talk to your absolutely
brilliant storyteller. Thankyou so much for joining us.

(36:27):
Thank you very much for theinvite. I've enjoyed it.
I really appreciate youlistening. Thank you so much and
I always love to hear from ourlisteners. If you want to connect
with me on LinkedIn, just goto Verena Hefti and I'd be delighted
to hear your feedback And yoursuggestions or just have you say
hi.

(36:48):
Likewise, if you do feelpassionately about gender equality
and you want to support afemale led podcast, then please do
leave a review and share itwith a friend. Just because at the
moment podcasting is still avery, very male dominated environment.
Most of the top chargingpodcasts are led by men. I really

(37:09):
love all the people who'vejoined from the podcast, our fellowship
program and if you want to dothe same then please head over to
leadersclass.org/Fellowship inorder to get access to a community
of support to help you combinean ambitious career with young children
together with people who haveyour track. See you next week.

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(C-Suite Series) Jane Hollinshead - How to Navigate a Squiggly Career and Find Success on Your Own Terms

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}(C-Suite Series) Jane Hollinshead - How to Navigate a Squiggly Career and Find Success on Your Own Terms