Ep. 107 - Entrepreneurs Don’t Take Vacations

Stop chasing balance like it’s a prize you win at the end of the grind. We delve into the real operating system of small businesses, managing imbalance, where pressure can build you up instead of break you, and where “hustle” is a strategy, not a badge of exhaustion. From 3 a.m. doubts to midweek wins, we unpack how committed owners outpace 50 competitors in fragmented markets by doing simple things others won’t: return the call, show up branded, follow the chain of influence, and keep pushing when “no” is the first answer.

We also take a tactical approach to avoiding burnout while you’re building. You’ll hear practical boundaries that actually work, 30-minute meetings, batching messages, doing the hardest task first, and adding short resets that free your head without derailing your day. We talk about isolation, why it hits founders so hard, and how to turn it into introspection and better decisions with the right peer circle, mentors, or professional support. And we challenge cultural scripts about vacations and “passive income”: rest should restore you, not add stress, and disengaged ownership is a myth that sinks more ventures than it saves.

Underneath it all is purpose: money is the outcome, not the aim. Confidence raises the ceiling for teams, spreads performance, and turns the daily push into a game worth playing. Whether you’re moving from corporate to ownership or you’re deep in the build, this is a clear-eyed, energizing playbook for staying engaged, ditching guilt, and defining success on your terms.

If this sparked something, tap follow, share it with a builder in your circle, and leave a quick review. Tell us the one boundary you’re setting this week.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
If they are considering going into business
or buying a business, or if theyhave a business, they've got to
be realistic.
Yeah.
Right?
About what it involves.

(00:22):
Okay, well, here we are,everybody.
We're back again with anotherepisode of Big Talk about smoke.
Businesses.
Business.

SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Dude, that wasn't really we're awesome at that
shit, man.
We have fun with it.
We do.

SPEAKER_03 (00:36):
We have fun with this whole show.
We have fun with life andbusiness.
We do, you know.
And that perfectly dovetailswith today's topic, really.
You shouldn't have to killyourself or your business.
That's true.
That's the topic that's laidout.
I'm glad we get to explore thatbecause I think there's maybe
some different ideas about whatkilling yourself is.

(00:58):
No.
Some of us have.
Yeah, what does killing yourselfreally mean?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02):
Exactly.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a uh it's a bigtopic.
It's actually one that I've beenkind of stewing on, you know.
I mean, um I would say thatthat, you know, not to be cliche
about it, but entrepreneurshipis absolutely 100% a roller
coaster.
Yes, it is.
It is just a roller coaster.
I mean, there's I think the thekill yourself thing is is like

(01:28):
um you have to workunrealistically at a lot of
times in entrepreneurship.
I mean, like to where it makesno sense to you, makes no sense
to your health, makes no sensefor your family, makes no sense
for your peers, anything oranyone.
Like it's no rhyme or reason.

SPEAKER_03 (01:49):
Yeah, you do put that out there a lot.
Yeah when you talk to mystudents or on this show or just
talking with other people.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Like you you can't there is no plan and strategy
and balance that you know thatthat we that we're trying to
accomplish.
Like get that out of your brain,because entrepreneurship doesn't
if you try to go through it.
It's about imbalance.
It's completely it is, it'sabout managing the imbalance of

(02:19):
it.
And I think that the thementality I have when I'm on
that, you know, that that upperclimb, right?
Or you know, there's thisthere's this high I'm going to
really when I'm climbing that,I'm causing a lot of opportunity
for the thing to start goinglike this.
And because you know you'reinnovating, you're putting new
things in, and everything seemsto be pushing, pushing, pushing,

(02:42):
pushing, and then all of asudden you start going over the
top, and it's like, oh hell.
I mean, it's just like this rideof where you feel overwhelmed,
you feel like too much pressure,too many questions, too many
decisions, too many.
Why did I push that hard?
Right.
What have I done?

SPEAKER_03 (02:57):
Yeah.
You ever had that thought?
What have I done?
I had that thought today, okay?
More than once.
I mean, you saw I almost backedinto somebody out there in the
parking lot.
You did.
That was But we were both doingit at the same time.
I mean, it wasn't all my fault.
Right.
But you were you were quitedistracted.
I was distracted.

(03:18):
You were on a Yeah, I was, dude.
But you know, like you say,those times when you're pushing.
When aren't you pushing,pushing, pushing?
That's the thing.
When aren't you?
That is the thing, man.
It's part of the life, it's whatwe do.
And I think, you know, again, uhthe the point of all this for
our listeners is that if theyare considering going into

(03:43):
business or buying a business,or if they have a business,
they've got to be realistic.
Yeah.
Right?
About what it involves.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Yeah, because the worst thing you want to do is
think, you know, and we talkedabout this, but the worst thing
you want to do is come from aprofessional managed major
corporation and think you'regonna get into business as an
entrepreneur and not be on aroller coaster.
Yeah.
Because you're gonna be sadly,sadly disappointed.
And I've seen it happen time andtime again.

(04:16):
I agree with you.
And and and the second that youstart getting the downhill
starts to happen, you're like,I'm out.
But but you have to ride thedown, man.

SPEAKER_03 (04:26):
Yeah, you gotta ride.
You know, we we have talkedabout making that move from
corporate America toentrepreneurship and how
different they are.
But, you know, one thought I hadabout that is when I worked out
there in companies as anemployee or as a minor owner, I
I wasn't any different than I amright now.

(04:46):
I still had the same drive.
I still was going for pushing,pushing, pushing.
I was still on the rollercoaster.
It was just in the context ofthat environment.
But if you really want to getahead in corporate America, you
gotta be like that.
You gotta be engaged all thetime, you gotta be on, you gotta

(05:06):
be answering your phone, yougotta be returning emails, you
gotta make the 10 o'clock atnight call, whatever.
It's funny.
What's the difference?

SPEAKER_02 (05:15):
When you're talking about that, I'm just in my mind,
I'm I can see a few people thatI've ran across with when
working with Walmart, and theywork for Walmart, and I'm
literally have gone.
Thank God they're not anentrepreneur and they're not
competing against me.
Yeah, because they're notfreaking machine.
No, no, no.
Because they are they are wiredlike machines.

(05:36):
Yeah, they're they're dude,they're on it.

SPEAKER_03 (05:40):
Those are the ones that get ahead though.
Well, no, no, no, they'reusually that they're the
leaders, they're killing them.
Yeah, they're the climbers,they're the buyers, they're
moving to a bigger group.

SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Yeah.
I'm like, thank God they haven'tdecided to go on their own
because they could they would bea true threat.
I get it.
Because out here in myecosystem, I'm dealing maybe
with a lot of folks that are notwanting to take that rod.

SPEAKER_03 (06:03):
Yeah, they're not willing to push that hard.
That's right.
No, you're right, man.
But see, it's the same thing.
It's it mean an analogy to that,it it's just like small business
ownership.
Yeah.
There's plenty of small businessowners who are not fully
committed and engaged, and theydo a mediocre job as a result.
And therefore, you, if you arefully engaged, you are fully

(06:27):
committed, you are pushing,pushing, pushing.
There could be 50 frickin'competitors out there and you'll
blow them out.
100%.
Okay, every time.
I mean, have you seen thiswindow washing company, by the
way, called Pink?
Yeah.
They would be a great sponsorfor this show.
They would they'd be great guystoo.
They would be, because here theygo, okay.
What's the worst, mostfragmented, crappy business?

(06:51):
There's a zillion providers outthere.
Window washing.
You can call 20 of them rightnow.
18 of them won't even return ourcall.
Right.
Okay.
Two of them might come out,maybe one of them would give us
a price.
I actually had a student thatdid an experiment like that on
window washing companies, andthat's what he found.
Okay.

(07:11):
Is what?
That they might call back oryeah, they don't even call back.
Okay.
And then if they show up, theyshow up in their beat-up truck
that's got no branding on it,they got no uniform on, so
anybody recognizes who they are.
They put no sign out that we'rehere washing windows.
Call us.
Would you like a window what?
Yeah, would you like a quote?
We're here, you know?
They do none of that.

(07:32):
And then they're like, oh God,window washing business is so
hard.
I mean, God, uh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Meanwhile, these pink peoplecome out and kick ass.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because they're hustling.
Yes.
They're freaking hustling.
It is about the hustle.

SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
It is.
You know, like like we getasked, like, I'm telling you,
like, okay, so in thisconversation, right?
I've got asked, like, whitespider, we we did a good job.
Like, you know, and I was I waspart of that team that that did
that.
And then if I look back, like,what what did what did we do
that was right?
Dude, we were freaking hustlingright in a really big mature

(08:12):
agency industry, right?
I mean, like, dude, we hadsignificant competitors.
Of course, but you weredisruptive.
I wasn't disrupting.
Disruptive.
I was hustling.
I know.
Like I would go to I would go tomeeting A, told no.
Meeting B, no.
C, D.
I mean, I would be told no allthe time.

(08:34):
So then all you're doing then isthinking, where's my meeting E?
Okay.
I'm like, I gotta get meeting E,I gotta get meeting F.
Dude, I've got to get meetingEyes ceilings.
Why have ceilings everywhere?
Why would you say no?
I'd have to figure out why notto, yeah.
It was mystery.
There's just a no.
We're not interested.
Why?
Right.
And I'd and I would ask thisperson that knew this person
that knew that, and I wastrying, I was so like, why?

(08:55):
It doesn't make sense.
And then I'd find out there'sthis little tweak.
This one person over here isstepsister or brother or cousin
to the person over there, mycompetitor, and I'm like, ah,
that ain't.
You couldn't compete with that.
I can't compete with that.
So what do I do?
Okay, I'm gonna go over the topof that one.
Yeah, that person is the oneblocking.
I'm gonna hustle.

SPEAKER_03 (09:14):
You know, I'm gonna go on LinkedIn and find the
circle.
Exactly, right?
I'm gonna connect with the bossof these people.
That's it.
And then they're gonna startvery subtly uh throwing them,
right?
That's right, man.
Let's have coffee.

SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
Oh, you're it's crazy you're at this event.
Yeah, I didn't expect that'scrazy.
It's great to actually meet you,you know?
What a crazy world.
What a small world, you know,but it was about that hustle,
that vigor, right?

SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Like not accepting the no.
But but you see, Beck, a lot ofpeople go, well, you you're
killing yourself.
Okay, but it's not killingyourself because what it is,
it's building yourself.
Okay.
It's building, it's like workingout, and uh and God knows I
shouldn't be talking about that.
But I mean, yeah, it's painful,right?

(10:06):
You get out there, you do this.
God, you know, my shoulder hurtsnow.
My my thighs are killing metoday because of that leg
workout I did or whatever,right?
But what's it doing?
It's making you stronger, allright?
So it's not killing yourself,it's doing, yeah, it's building
yourself.

SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
Yeah, it's encouraging.
This isn't even reallyencouraging.
I know what your day's beenlike.
Yeah, you do.
I've I've been having a daymyself, right?
Yeah, and it's like, is itMonday?

SPEAKER_03 (10:37):
No, it's Wednesday.
I did think it was Monday, too.
It's a week of Monday.
I'm like, shit, where'd theMonday and Tuesday go?

SPEAKER_02 (10:45):
I need Monday and Tuesday.
Surely I'm not already onWednesday.
I know.
I got so much more hustling todo before everyone else goes
home for the weekend.
Yeah, I know.
Because my time's constrained onwhat I can do based upon other
people and what they balancethemselves out to be.
Yeah, when I it's four o'clock,I'm done, man.
I'm I'm completely but there'sonly but there's certain things

(11:06):
I have to be able to do beforefour because you're someone else
is gonna go home.
Yeah.
But I can postpone what I wasgonna do over here until 5 and 7
because I'm not stopping mywork.
Dude.
But I have to get these thingsdone before four because of that
person's leaping.
I I'm 67.

SPEAKER_03 (11:22):
You know that, okay?
I worked all day yesterday.
My class got done at 8 45.
I was home by 9.
I get a call at 9.
Okay.
You forgot about that.
But I'm just saying, it it andyet, you know what, honestly, I
still feel like I live a goodlife.

SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
Well, you do, man.

SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
I I do things I want to do.
I mean, I got up uh, you know,Monday morning, my wife and I
took a 12-mile bike ride, okay?
It's not like I can't doanything else.
Right.
I you're trickling it in.
It's but the point is, yeah, youyou the the whole idea of

(12:03):
balance, you can't kill.
I don't feel like I kill myself.
I feel like I test myself.
Yeah.
Okay, but I'm up to thechallenge.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
Dude, if if anything's not growing, it's
dying.
Yes, it is.
You know, I mean, and that's andand it's so true.
And so this analogy of don'tkill yourself.
You know, honestly, the biggestkiller that you'd have in
business as an entrepreneur isto do nothing.

SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
Try not to kill yourself.

SPEAKER_04 (12:33):
Yeah, it's to do nothing.

SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
Because you will rust away.
Doing nothing.
I used to always uh uh uh yearsago, my first job out of grad
school, um, I worked with acouple, you know, some really
smart guys.
Um one of them was an older guythat had his MBA.
We thought it was a big deal in1980.
There weren't that many of themout there.
But he used to always say,Deciding not to decide is a

(12:58):
decision.
Okay.
It it it's so doing nothing is adecision that you're making.
It's a decision to give up.
It is all it is.
It it you know.
We used to also say patience isnot a virtue, okay?
Yeah.
Because that's sometimes that'swhat it means.

(13:20):
You're gonna do nothing and justwait.
That's right.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
Yeah.
Or I'm or I I'll be patientthough.
Or I need this time to to donothing.
Yeah.
I need some time to do nothingbecause me doing all these
things is making me worn out andI'm afraid I'm gonna overwork
it.

SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
That's a really good point because you know what my
do nothing time is?
It's actually doing nothing.
But it may not be the stuff thattakes me the most mental.
No, yeah.
Right?
It could be I'm, you know, likeyou, you know, I'm out there
cutting my hay fields or fuckingwhatever, all right?
Or cutting my grass or polishingup my cars or cleaning my garage

(13:58):
out or building my mailing listdatabase.
It's not stuff that's takes alot of thought, but it's still
productive.
100%.
And when you do that, it freesyour mind up actually to think
about other things.
Yeah.
Okay, but I'm still gettingsomething done.
I'm not just doing nothing.

SPEAKER_02 (14:17):
My thing that I love to do, like whenever I have my
relaxed, like I'll come in hereand I'll write, like I was
writing the other day about myown boundaries and limitations.
Wow, you are so thoughtful.
You've gotten so philosophicalthe older you got.
That's true.
I mean, I do, because I'm tryingto figure the shit out.
You know, and like because noone else is gonna figure it out

(14:40):
for me.
And you've gotten more and moreeffective because of the
constant introspection andlearning.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
I mean, I have down hereboundaries on this right side.
I was this is when I wastraveling the other day.
Okay.
Right?
And my my wife's form ofrelaxation and traveling is a
lot different than mine.
You know, she likes to disengageand kind of go into a

(15:01):
non-productive thing, which isgreat.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
You know, not down that, but mine is She's in a
medical field too, where you canstress of dealing with people
and life and death and stuffthat we don't have to deal with.
We don't deal with that, right?

SPEAKER_04 (15:11):
That's a that's that one just shows up.

SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
Yeah.
That's this advice is not forthose folks, right?
But uh, but you know, I waswriting down like, you know,
what are my boundaries that Ineed to re-prioritize because
I've allowed the world or thingsto just start squeezing in and
I'm and I quit prioritizingthings that matter.
And then I was writing down myobsessions.

(15:35):
But this is productive work.
Yes, it is.
You know, but it's relaxing.
Do you have boundaries?
I'm curious about whatboundaries you actually have.
Okay, so like it's interesting.
Like, I forget about what I wasthinking at the time, but uh I
was writing down long meetingtimes.
I have rarely found that anymeeting lasting longer than 30

(15:56):
minutes has value.
Oh, I agree with that.
So I need to quit doing longermeetings in 30 minutes.
Yeah.
Because I allow them to go.
Good.
Here's one.
Right after that, I said, my ownsoap boxes are killing my own
time.
When I get into a meeting and Iget on a freaking soapbox and I
start preaching, like I'mkilling my own time.

(16:16):
Okay, so far I agree with bothof those myself.
This is really telling.
Yeah, yeah.
I said, stop checking emails andtexts constantly, designate time
to specifically check those.
Oh, I wish I could do that.
I know.
Okay.
Wish I could do that.
Then give myself 15-minutebreaks throughout the day at
times.

(16:36):
Yeah.
Just take 15 minutes.
Yeah.
I don't need an hour and a half.
A lot of times, like I'll go,I'll pink I'll allow my calendar
to back to back to back to backto back to back to back.
Yeah, you can't do that.
You gotta be able to go to thebathroom and get a drink and
yeah, yeah.
And then I just kind ofexhaustly just have this
relaxing exhaust at the end ofthe day.

SPEAKER_03 (16:55):
Yeah.
No, that's that's a all good.
I mean, that's reallyinteresting that you're doing
that.
But this is completely relevantto what we're talking about.
100%.
This is how you don't killyourself.
That's right.
But you still do everything yougotta do, right?

unknown (17:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
No, 100%, man.
I mean, I think because the andI love the the like what we were
talking about, the killingyourself, the kill, the death is
it's like we all have thisfictitious imagination that
success is being wealthy and nothaving to do anything.

SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Yeah, that's not the it's not the destination, it's
the journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Well, where did we come up with this?
I I don't know.
Like, I mean, because it's a anumber one, when you get there,
it's not satisfying.
It's depressing.
Right.
That's why you see most reallysuccessful people still drive.

SPEAKER_03 (17:47):
Why would Warren Buffett still be going into the
office, right?
He sure as hell doesn't need tobe.
Right.
There's no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
There is something there that when they land there,
they they don't there's uh theylose their their purpose.
Yeah.
We all need a purpose.
And so the thing the questionlike you to if you want to kill
yourself is have thatimagination that there is
somewhere this fairy taleexistence that where you are
going to not have to work hardand have stress, like you're

(18:21):
talking about, like the musclestress, you're not gonna be in a
pressured situation, right?
And you're gonna be happy.
Yeah.
That doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 (18:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
That's a fairy tale.
Yeah.
But for some reason we allbelieve in that.

SPEAKER_03 (18:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
It's like a it's like there's this relief valve
somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 (18:38):
It's a fairy tale for a high achiever.
Maybe it's not a fair maybe somepeople who never really have
were that motivated and inherita bunch of money or whatever,
and then don't do anything,maybe they're happy.
I don't know.
Okay?
Because they don't have the sameneed to do anything that we
have.
Okay, so Okay, maybe, maybethey're happy.

(19:00):
I don't know.
Maybe so.
I haven't seen it play out yet.
I haven't most lottery winnersactually do really poorly after
that, right?
It's kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (19:10):
Yeah, and I've seen I've seen older folks that have
retired.
I've never seen a really areally happy, satisfied, non
productive retiree that's beenhappy.
A lot of people die after that.

SPEAKER_03 (19:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
They they do.
I mean, there are some oddballs.
My dad was an oddball character.
Uh-huh.
I mean, he worked real hard attimes.
You know, he had his ad agencyand management consulting and
all that.
We talked about it, but when hegot to be 59 or whatever he was,
he said, I've worked on what Idon't like for the last 40

(19:48):
years.
Henceforth I no longer work.
And he looked at be 96.
I think he was 57.
Yeah.
He made whatever.
It was like 39 years.
But the difference in my dad anda lot of other people was he
worked out every day.
He ran, he read, he studied, hedonated his time to various
things.
He went to youth or to elderhostels and traveled around and

(20:11):
took classes and stuff.
He didn't know anything about.
He was active and pressure.
He still had pressure.
His pressure was to self-improveand basically find the meaning
of life.
Okay.
That was his thing.
And then convey that to otherpeople.
So, but it's not the same as youand me, okay, in a way.

(20:31):
I mean, we all want to beteachers, I guess.
That's also part of this journeythat we're on.
Yeah.
But uh, but there are somepeople who seem to manage that
deal.
Although, like he always said,thank God for Charlie Borsig,
that was my grandfather, or I'dbe screwed.
Okay.
That was my mom's debt.
Oh, yeah.

(20:51):
Because he inherited some moneyfrom Charlie Borsig.
Okay.
But anyway.
Oh, yeah.
I always said thank God forCharlie Borsig, or I'd be
screwed.
Um, but the but let's go back tothis for a minute.
The hustle myth versussustainable success.
61% of entrepreneurs work morethan 50 hours a week, and nearly

(21:13):
20% work 60 plus hours.
Source capital one smallbusiness survey.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know.
Again, I don't know how somebodycan define how many hours of
work they I have no idea howmany hours.
I always say if I'm awake, it'spossible I'm working.

SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Yeah.
It's likely.
Yeah, and what do we call work?
I mean, like I I like I wouldsay number one, I don't go by
weeks because it all kind ofblurs in a way, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
You know, and even if I'm in inlike whatever I call work

(21:53):
because I'm really neverdisengaged.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (21:57):
No, actually.

SPEAKER_03 (21:58):
So therefore am I still working?
Yes, that's why you couldn'tpossibly fill out a quote
timesheet if you save your life.
No.
There's no way.
There's too many differentplates spinning that you're
dealing with simultaneously.

SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
Well, and I certainly don't when I wake up
at 3:30 and I can't stopthinking, so I just get up and
start working.
I don't count those hours.

SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
Yesterday, 10 to 4, buddy.
10 to 4 was your 10 to 4yesterday as when I got a 10
minutes until 4.
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:28):
10 minutes until 4.
Dude, I did that.
I was in Cancun with my wife.
And we went to bed on Fridaynight at like 10.
Go to bed too early.
I was too early.
Then you wake up early.
I get that.
Dude, I people loved it.
I forgot about this.
Yep.
I woke up at 3 20 in themorning.

(22:50):
Yep.
In Cancun.
Yep.
And I was up before the sun wasup, right?
Walking around.
I went and worked out, did someworms.
I was out there on the beachsitting in a chair.
And I had my phone and I waschecking emails.
And I had my little book.
Yep.
Because I was gonna checkemails.
The sun started to come up onceI had light, I could read my

(23:10):
book.
And you're out there in the WestCoast time or whatever.
Well central.
It was central.
Yeah.
But I was watching the sunriseright in that boundary shift.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Then I went and had a littlecoffee and breakfast, you know,
and but that was my I wasworking.

SPEAKER_03 (23:26):
Of course.
So forgot that again, I thinkpart of this, like even this
piece of data, 61% work morethan 50 hours a week, and nearly
20% work 60 plus hours.
You know, my question in that isthat's all, quote, or whatever.
That's supposed to be arepresentative sample.
What do the successful ones do?

(23:48):
Don't tell me what everybodydoes, because not everybody's
good at this business ownershipstuff.
Yeah.
Okay.
I I want to know what thesuccessful ones do.
The successful ones are doingmore than that.
Yeah, yeah, by and large.
Yeah, right.
Okay.
The successful ones.
That's what I care about.

(24:08):
Don't tell me about the masses.
Don't tell me what the averagemarketing spend is for hamburger
restaurants.
Right.
Tell me what the marketing spendis for the number one company
that's ones that are killing it.
Killing it, okay?
That's what I want to know.
All right?
That's fair.
That's the problem with a lot ofthis data, okay?
Burnout is a business risk, notjust a personal one.

(24:30):
42% of small business owners saymental health has negatively
impacted their business.
Okay, well, let's talk aboutthat for a minute.
What's surprising about that?
Who doesn't think their mentalstate affects their business?
That's like saying that thestudy that I saw done once at a

(24:54):
specific university.
The less water you drink, thedarker your pea color is.
Right.
Okay.
Mental health affects yourbusiness.
Of course it does.
Yeah, it happens everywhere yougo, man.
We're all humans.
We bring everything from ourlives into our work.

(25:14):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I don't care.
If you're an employee, you couldsay the same thing.
Okay.
So there's no shock there.
Loneliness and pressure ofleadership.
63% of business owners reportfeeling isolated in their roles.
That doesn't surprise me.
Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
I mean, I constantly feel isolated.
Yeah.
It's actually one of the biggestchallenges, I think, in
entrepreneurship.
How do you overcome thatisolation, the isolating
feeling?
I had it this morning prettysignificantly.
Well, you can always call me.
I know I can.
And talk.
But I'd rather like that's mychallenge.

SPEAKER_03 (25:45):
You want to work through that.

SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
Hell yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
Yeah.
That's what freaking admit to methat you're feeling bad.
Well, I should have called youthis morning and cried.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (25:57):
Especially when you wake up to it and it's dark
outside and you're like, dude,this is this shit ain't working,
man.
I know.
This shit is not working.
But I mean, but I'm so alone.
What have I done?
You know, but but I like thatperiod because it's there's a a
subconscious, like there's thisnegative force, right?
That's that's that's trying tointerfere with all the other

(26:21):
positivity that you're bringing.
Yeah.
Like there's always this pullagainst these, you know, and I
think that that that isolationbrings introspection.
Big time, baby.
And when you overcome that, whenyou overcome yourself, then you
can overcome anything else.
You know, and a lot of times,like when I do that, and I'm
like, man, okay, I know whatthis is.

(26:41):
And the older I get, I'm gettingmore, I recognize it more.
I remember my young entrepreneurcareer, I didn't even know
what's happening, and I justsomehow fumbled my way out of
it.
Yeah.
And a lot of times I depend onsomebody accidentally or
incidentally bringing me into abetter mood.
Like, what do you mean my kid?
When my little my girl waslittle and she do something cute
that break me out of thisnegative thought process, and I

(27:03):
get dist it's distractionmethod.
I get distracted by hercuteness, right?
And then I drive and go to work,and then this would happen.
Oh, then something good camethrough the email, so now I'm in
a better mood.
But I was just reallyflip-floppy, you know.
I just kind of tossed around bythe waves, but now I'm more of a
captain of my own sawboat.
Yeah.
You know, to where I recognizethat I'm like, I wake up and

(27:26):
over there's that, there's thatnasty agent experience, dude.
I mean, there is something toit.
There is.
There is.
I mean, it's like, okay, I knowwho this this dark negative
bastard is.
I know I know your game.
Right.
You can't you're here to attackme while I'm sleeping.
I beat you before, though, andI'll beat your ass again.
That's right.
Right?

(27:46):
And you always come at me whenI'm sleeping.
You know what I'm saying?
You don't come at me in themiddle of the day when I've been
jacked up on coffee and I'mfreaking punching.

SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
I woke up this morning, okay.
I got my wife pissed off at metoo.
Yeah.
Again, it was like 10 to 4,okay?
I didn't get up at 10 to 4, butI did wake up and I realized
yesterday afternoon um we boughtone of the girls a new car.
Okay.
Now I was busy, all right?
Yeah.
And we're dealing with thedealership, they're friends,

(28:16):
whatever.
They got this car, and my Soniawent over there with my
stepdaughter, you know, to golook at it, and they decided
they wanted to buy it.
I you know, they knew got theirtheir price and everything.
And said and said it at 4 30.
She goes, I need a check, okay?
Today.
I'm like, you can't give them adeposit and pick it up with a

(28:37):
check tomorrow.
No, it's the end of the month.
The only reason I got this priceis they want the money now.
Yeah.
Okay.
So dealt with that, all right.
Um, and it had 30 minutes to geta check, uh cashier's check
available at the bank in Rogerswhen the dealership's in
Bentonville.
Okay.
Yeah.
She goes over, gets the money,buys it, everything.

(28:58):
Um, I had to it break, you know,while while I'm doing it, I had
to send her proof of insurance.
Then we had insurance onautomobiles, not this one, mind
you.
So anyway, they buy the car.
Okay.
This morning I woke up and Isaid to myself, Holy shit, we
have no insurance on this car.

(29:19):
Okay.
All we did is send them aninsurance card on other cars.
Right.
Not this one.
Right.
And so I'm like, uh, you know,she better not even drive that
car.
I'm like, holy cow, she could gowreck it.
Someone's gonna sue us.
Yeah.
You know, don't drive that car.
I mean, it just it woke me up,like you're saying.

(29:41):
It's like, and then I had totell her, uh, you gotta tell
Sophie she can't drive that carat all until it's got insurance
on it.
She's like, you won't, you know,now you know, I'm not gonna be
able to go back to sleep.
Most of the time, though, Idon't have a lot of those
negative thoughts um in mydreams or anything.
I do dream about.
Business constantly.

(30:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
Do you?
I mean, uh, I don't know if it'sis it a dream when I wake up and
I'm immediately instantaneouslythinking about business?
Have I been dreaming?
Yeah.
Maybe I have.
Yeah.
You think?
Mm-hmm.
Because I've just been thinkingabout it as I wake up and I'm
like, go.

SPEAKER_03 (30:19):
Your mind has been working on that all night, see.
Is that what's going on?
Yeah.
And then it's that's the now youwant to do something with it
when you wake up.
But uh, but anyway, let's lookat this.

SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
So yeah, don't get me wrong, I don't wake up every
time negative about something.
No, no, most of the time.
It could be an opportunity.
Now there was a period.
Yeah.
And so I think, you know, again,killing yourself, right?
Like if you're an entrepreneurand you're waking up and you're
negative, there's this negativeloom, that's not uncommon.
No.
I think a lot of this discussionthat we're having, and even on

(30:52):
the show in general, butspecifically this, is like as an
entrepreneur, you feel thisisolation.
You cannot talk to people allthe time.
And so you feel like that you'rekilling yourself in business.
When the reality is, is a lot ofthings you're going through are
very common with entrepreneurs.
Yes.
And you're actually building.
And that's why you're facingnegativity.
That's why you're facing somesleepless nights.

(31:14):
That's why you're waking up atthree o'clock in the morning
because you're drivingsomething, you're pushing,
you're building, you're in apressure scenario, which is a
good thing.
It's called eustress.
Yeah, it's called makingyourself better.
Yeah, making pushing yourlimits.

SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
Yeah, contributing, making the other things around
you better.
Yeah, it's it's so true, but youknow, um you you don't
necessarily feel like that,okay.
I mean, there are a lot ofpeople that do feel lonely, and
there are things you can do.
I mean, have your friends thatyou talk with who are going
through the same thing.
I mean, most of my friends havebusiness, my real friends, most

(31:52):
of them are in business.
That's true.
Okay.
Yeah.
Those are the people I hang outwith.
Yep.
You maybe you've got a mentoryou can talk to.
Um, your spouse you can talk to.
Hopefully, they're supportiveand understand what you're going
through.
Maybe you need to go see acounselor or talk to somebody.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Um, you could be in a businesssupport group.

(32:12):
You know, there's a lot of thoseout there where, you know,
they're not all just aboutsharing leads.
I don't like those lead sharinggroups at all.
Right.
Okay, it's just so parasitic andweird.
Um, but they're, you know, thegood ones where you actually
talk about, you know, you findout you're not alone, right?
Right.

(32:32):
Um, so there are things you cando.

SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
I think another good resource that up that worked
tremendously well for me is goon YouTube and start like
looking up like freaking don'tbe a bitch and start work hard,
work harder.
Videos, like literally YouTubesearch, work harder.

SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
I saw, yeah, or LinkedIn.
So, you know, there's a lot ofthings on there.
Some of them are bad, though.
I saw one the other day.
This one was like, I bought andsold businesses, blah, blah,
blah.
Here's 35 things I've learned.
Number one says the firstbusiness you start will probably
fail.
I'm like, no.
Why would you say that?
Let's build that expectation inright away.

(33:10):
Yeah.
Oh, this is okay.
This will be.
I'm gonna fail.
Throw the towel in.

SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
That's my first business, no big deal.

SPEAKER_03 (33:15):
No big deal.
Everyone else does it.
Everybody does.
Oh, a millionaire.
I said 99% of the successfulpeople I know who own businesses
never failed.
Okay.
I mean, we all do it.
That's not like littleexperiments.
Like I started a lawn cuttingbusiness or I was a one-man
marketing consulting company andI decided to pull the plug on

(33:38):
it.
I don't see that necessarily asa real business.
Right.
Unless I start putting employeesinto the picture.
It starts getting real.
Yeah.
Otherwise, all I'm doing is I'mmaking a living.
When the government knows whoyou are, that's when it's real.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of thingswe could do to make a living
that we decide it's not worththat.
So I'm going to go do somethingelse.
I mean, like your firstphotography venture or whatever.

(34:01):
Yeah, yeah.
It's not a real, it's not like Iset up, okay, here I am now.
I'm legally organized, I'm goingfor it.
You don't have to fail.

SPEAKER_02 (34:10):
And I would say like a lot of those things aren't
necessarily failures.
Is it a failure to stop abusiness?
No.
When you're when you made aconscious decision, it's not
making sense.
Right.
A fail would be is to continueto drive on something that is
completely stupid.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (34:26):
And never let go of it, like a dog catching the car
leg down the street, right?

SPEAKER_02 (34:31):
I uh Dan Pinya.
Have you ever listened to DanPena?
Name's familiar.
Dude, he's a he's awesome.
I mean, I love him.
But he is relentless.
Like he don't he's he's uh hecalls himself the the trillion
dollar man now, I think.
But anyway, you go on there, hegoes, one of his pieces of
advice is most of the timebusiness owners don't know when

(34:52):
to st to get out of the businessis one of the biggest problems.
It's like they bleed it.

SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
It's a failed experiment.
Yeah, it don't confuse failurewith an experiment that you pull
the plug on.
That's right.
You gotta be smart enough topull the plug.
Anyway, managing guilt aroundrest and time off.
Forty three percent of smallowners haven't taken a vacation
in two years.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Who came up with vacations?
You know, I actually researchedit.
Uh-huh.
Did you really?
Yeah, I did.
It was freaking Romans.
Uh-huh.
The the um the privileged theirsociety ultimately failed.

SPEAKER_03 (35:33):
Let's note.

SPEAKER_02 (35:37):
It started back in Roman times.
Yeah, when you have thecivilization that's becoming
they they're becoming moreaffluent.
And so they decide that theyneed to take vacations and go
wander and travel.
So they travel to distant placesto check them out.
Before that, you didn't freakingtravel.

(35:58):
Because if you did, you woulddie.
Yeah, most people couldn't gomore than 10 miles from house
their whole life.
How are you gonna carry yourwater like they're you don't
even know what's around there?
Right.
Like, are you serious?
You don't travel to enjoy andtake a vacation.
You know, and then we picked itback up and then Roman Empire.

SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
I mean, they did have a lot of places that they'd
captured.

SPEAKER_02 (36:18):
Well, yeah, but the th that's another part of it,
right?
But but it becomes this likeit's this thing.
And then we make it this thingwhen in the 1900s when we don't
have to worry about surviving asmuch anymore.
It's a privileged thinking thatwe should even have a vacation
and travel.
Like so that's my opinion aboutit.

(36:38):
So number one, like I'm like,okay, the basis of this, like
man like uh where is it?
Oh, the is it managing guiltaround rest?
So haven't taken a vacation tomanage your rest and time off.
Like, who decided that taking avacation is restful?
Yeah, and it's good for you.

SPEAKER_03 (36:59):
I know, actually, it's more stressful, isn't it?
Yes, it's the build-up to it andeverything you gotta do to get
ready for it.
It's the then it's the doing,and of course, that's you know,
traveling's a hassle if you'reflying and stuff gets screwed up
and right, and then when youcome back, it's the aftermath.

SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
It's all the stuff that didn't get done.
It's so distracting, sodisruptive, so stressful.
It is true.
Bro, like, and man, I get it.
Like, I look look, I do itliterally 100%.
Yeah, and my wife can belistening to this to support
her.
Yeah, it's important for her,yeah.
So therefore I go.
Yeah, you know, and I'm and Ispend in that and I do it for

(37:41):
her.
And I hate that in a way.
I mean, I wish that she had apartner in a way that was so
excited to take a vacation,maybe, maybe that'd be good, but
I don't know, maybe it wouldn't.
Uh, because, dude, give me,look, you want my, like we were
talking about earlier, you wantmy rest and dis in
disengagement.
Let me go mow the yard.
Yeah, I get it.

(38:02):
Let me go dig some dirt.
Yeah.
Right?
Let me disengage that waybecause I get it there, and then
I come back.
And the way I can, because ittakes me 30 minutes to do that,
and now I'm back in the game,baby.
Yeah, and you got somethingdone.
Yeah.
That needed to get done.

SPEAKER_03 (38:18):
Exactly.
A week-long vacation is notrelaxing.
For you know, my wife and I, oneof the things for us is like she
comes with me sometimes, but Ihave a number of business trips
I have to do, you know, becauseI'm on these boards.
I got to go to LA, I gotta go toNew York, or I gotta go to
Indiana.
And so she comes along.

(38:38):
And so it's a dual, you know,it's it that's a nice little
adventure.
She also does the driving, thatmakes it less stressful.
Or if we fly, you know, that'sanother matter.
But but yeah, I I hear whatyou're saying.
Who says a vacation's got to bea purification?

SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Doesn't it?
Right, and and like what is whatdoes it mean?
Like, managing in like my guiltis from this is coming from
other people that think thatthat's relaxing.
And really what I'm doing is I'mmanaging my guilt about being
stressed out.
Yeah.
It sounds like a double-edgedsword for me.
I hear you.

SPEAKER_03 (39:13):
And like I've been fighting this for 30 years, Zoe.
But but see that again, I mean,I want people to understand that
you know, you're a verysuccessful guy, okay?
People can they can say, oh,that Eric's crazy, he's full of
crap, or whatever, or or youknow, either of us.
But I mean, you've been very,very successful.

(39:35):
So what we're trying to do hereis impart the mental state that
it takes to be able to surviveall the shit that goes down when
you own a business.
All right.
There's a lot of bad stuff thatgoes along with it, but we think
the good outweighs it.
That's right.
And, you know, but we got to getthrough that.

(39:57):
And if if you know it's normal,yeah, yes, okay, maybe that
helps you just feel like, okay,it's it's like when your kid
goes from a nice little kid wholoves you to a teenager, yeah,
and suddenly they're 15 andthey're, you know, they're nasty
and surly or whatever.
What happened to my sweet littlegirl?
Is it my fault?

(40:18):
There's something wrong with myparenthood.
No, it's normal.
It's normal.
15-year-old girl, she's gonna bein a bad mood.
She's got big hormone swing,she's going through a stressful
time herself.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (40:31):
To your point, if you're an entrepreneur and you
and taking a vacation isstressing you out, the thought
of it, and so and then somebodyconvinced you that that
therefore makes you a badbusiness owner because you
haven't managed your businessenough so you can take a
two-week vacation, and sotherefore, you're not
successful.
That's a lie.
Exactly.
And I've had yeah, and I've had,I don't know about you, but I've

(40:54):
had to overcome that on my ownin isolation, yeah, to get to a
point where like, you know what?
Piss on everybody.
Right.
Like, I'm I'm I don't need tolisten to that shit.
Let them do what they want todo.
Exactly, man.
This is how I'm rolling, baby.
I now have the like, and so ittook me too long.
Like I went through a lot of,yeah, to the point.

(41:14):
Managing the guilt.
That word guilt is really thebad thing about this, is that
there's this guilt that you as abusiness owner that you should
be taking a vacation.

SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
You know what makes me guilty?
What not doing what my greatestpriority is.
100%.
That's what makes me guilty.
Yeah, that's why I'm so aboutthe priority list and doing the
things that you don't want to dofirst.
Because then if I get nothingelse done, at least I'm not
guilty.
I feel like, oh, I got I didwhat I had to do today,

(41:46):
essentially.

SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
Dude, I love that.
I I that's I mean, that needs togo in my freaking book.
Like, do the most not wanting todo things a day right now, first
thing, every morning.

SPEAKER_03 (41:56):
Yeah, that'll reduce your guilt.
100%.
Okay, and you will get moredone, by the way.
The mistake is a lot of peoplethink, oh, my way I'm gonna
reduce my guilt is I'm gonna do10 little things, but not get
the thing I really needed to dogot done.
The shitty thing, by the way.
Yeah, the shitty thing.
The real shitty thing.
The one I needed to confront.

SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, like talking to thisperson or doing that.
Oh, I'm telling you.
No, I've actually like becauseyou have said that, like I have
started I have practiced that alittle bit better.
I have to give myself somecredit on it.
You know, because I think thatwe we never you know, you never
really accomplish everythingthat you need to get done
anyway, ever.
Right?
No way, but I did I have beendealing with in this week, like

(42:38):
there's this important matterthat I really don't want to talk
about.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, why do I have to be theone that deals with this?
You know, and it's just but Iknow what needs to get done, so
I but I have been dealing withit.
Every morning I've been talkingabout this subject with this
person, trying to get to a goodagreement so that we're aligned.
Yes, and I'm like, it's notcomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 (42:59):
No, it's not what you want to do, it's not, and
I'd love this person, of course.
And that's always a problem.
Yeah, you don't want to hurtanybody's feelings or you're
gonna be.
I want him to win, right?

SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
You know, yeah, like our expectations are all out of
whack, but man, if we can findthis, yes, like I really don't
want to talk about it because tome it's obvious.
Yeah, I understand.
And I really want Bob to dealwith it.
Yeah, no, I get it.
You know, but I but no, I needto own this.
Like, this is my problem.
No, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 (43:28):
It's I have learned from you, Zwang.
Hey, thanks.
I've learned from you too.
I mean on the show.
I wish I had done some of thethings that you've done.
I'd be a lot of success today.
I don't know, bro.

SPEAKER_00 (43:41):
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SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
Uh mental health's a competitive advantage.
76% of employees say mentalhealth support is a deciding
factor in staying with acompany.
Well, uh, suddenly we're talkingabout employees here.
I don't know.
That's why that's the case.
Uh bad Sam.

SPEAKER_02 (44:12):
Sam.
Yeah.
If you're listening to thisepisode, you made a huge
mistake.

SPEAKER_03 (44:19):
We only care about business owners, okay?
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (44:22):
Yeah, you hear that, Sam?

SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
Or aspiring business owners.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, but I can't imaginestaying in a job because they
have good mental health support.
Personally.
I mean, that's that does thatmake me sound terrible?
Staying in the job because ofthat?
Like, I hate everything aboutthis job, okay?
I hate the people I work with.
I don't think this place has anypurpose.

(44:47):
Yeah.
Or I don't feel like I'm gettingahead here.
But yeah, they're saying it's adeciding factor.

SPEAKER_02 (44:56):
That's and that's pretty um, that's a little bit
self-serving that the AmericanPsychological Association.

SPEAKER_03 (45:02):
Uh yeah, I think they're promoting their own uh
thing there.
Like, hey.

SPEAKER_02 (45:07):
You know, our statistics, but you know, I
mean, dude, I have been part ofa company that where this um
this was such a it was asignificant deal about the whole
mental health.
And I mean, look, man, I thinkwe we all like we just all need
to recognize like that's an likewe need to take care of your

(45:29):
mental health.
You need to take care of yourthoughts.
Yeah.
You need to deal, you need tounderstand as a human being how
to deal with your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 (45:36):
Yeah, and managers need to understand that people
do bring all their baggage towork.
It's not like you can totallydisregard that.
I think more importantly thanthan mental health uh uh support
as managers who actually careabout the people deeply.

SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
Recognize that they're human beings.
Yes.
And you as a manager, you have aresponsibility.
Right.
You're very good at that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (46:03):
You don't have turnover.
Your people like one for you.
No, that's what you care about.
We've had low turnover.
Okay, and you always do becauseyou build loyalty because people
I give a shit.
You care.
Yeah, you care.

SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Like I do, like I actually I was just talking to
my my homies.
Yeah.
I told them I call my twogoofballs, right?
Uh-huh.
Up front there.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Two of your key people.
My key people, right?
But they're they're great.
I love them.
Right.
But they know, man.
And like I literally caught themover there because I want them,
they have to know where they'reat and they're and they and they

(46:39):
value.
Yeah.
Like I in my message to themwhen we were leaving, I was
like, guys, look, you don't likewe have numbers you're hitting,
metrics and activities, etc.
Yeah, that's great.
That's to give you on, keep youon track.
Right.
Only thing you need to do to besuccessful is you gotta bring
that confidence level up inyourself.
Yep.
Right?
Bring that bastard up.

(47:01):
Yeah.
And that's where you're winning.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (47:03):
Because right now that's when you set the goals
higher.
That's when you push for higherbecause you believe it's
possible.
That's when you walk in ameeting.
Greatness.

SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
Yes.
That's when you walk in ameeting and you're like, I have
the answer.

SPEAKER_03 (47:20):
And you know it's the answer, and you're helping
them win.
It's that Kit Miyamoto, MiyamotoInternational.
Yeah.
His his mission, we used tohave, you know, whatever the
mission was, but then he wouldsay afterward, he'd be like, the
real mission's world dominance.
World dominance of our field,okay?

(47:42):
Yes, yes.
And and so, yeah, setting itdoes take some confidence.
It does.
You're right.
To set the goals higher, pushhigher, push yourself higher.
See you see the value inyourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
Because if you bring that in, man, if one person
brings that in a 10-personcompany, it's contagious.
It is.
And it's and it kind of gets usthrough the next day.
Yeah.
It's like we can alternate.
This person brings in theconfidence tomorrow.
This next person does.

SPEAKER_03 (48:13):
The thing about this is, is some people would say,
oh, you're just greedy or youjust have an uninsatiable desire
to make more money.
My God, we haven't even talkedabout that.
Oh, that's when we talk aboutmaking money.
That's not the point.
That's just the result.
That's the outcome.
Yeah.
It's the outcome.

(48:34):
It's not the goal.

SPEAKER_02 (48:36):
It's a byproduct.
The thing, when you see money inyour check account, only thing
that it does for you is go, oh,I achieved something.

SPEAKER_03 (48:45):
Yeah.
All I think about is now whatcan I put that else into?
How can I redeploy that after Ipay my excessive overhead?
Of course.
That's where I pay off all thedebt that it took me to get it.
Yeah.
Just like today, you know, it'slike, oh, there's X-Y number
one, X-Knife number two.
It's the first of the month, youknow?

SPEAKER_02 (49:05):
Dude, I had there it goes.
I had a a pretty big epiphanyall of it yesterday, it was
recently, to where I was like,oh, that's why people don't own
shit.
And what was that?
Well, I mean, just like like,you know, because of all the
costs that go along with it.

SPEAKER_03 (49:23):
And the management of it all.
Oh, yeah.
I thought about that the otherday too.
It's funny you say that.
I'm like, why do I need thismassive house that I spent all
this time on my yard?
Yeah.
And then improvements.
It's like, why do we keep doingthis?
I got a four-car garage, a 6,100square foot house, a huge yard,
decks, geez, freaking all thisstuff, okay?

(49:46):
That's a lot that we live in.
And it's basically my wife andmyself.
And you know, meanwhile, it'slike we're planning on redoing
the master bathroom.
It's not bad.
It's got a giant shower andsinks and urinal on the wall and
electric toilet.
Okay.
We're still, we're gonna redothat.
And by the way, we got to redothe kitchen backsplash.

(50:07):
Then we got to redo the livingroom flooring and the flooring
in the guest bedroom.
And then, you know, it it's likethis improvement program.
I'm trying to get my landscapersover there right now to cut some
stumps out and put some gravelwalks in.
I just have my retaining wallsrebuilt and expanded my deck,
but now I've also got to get mypainters over there because I
want to rip the ceiling out inthe laundry room.

(50:30):
And I'm like, you know, and thenyou pay your water bill, your
irrigation bill, your electricbill, your gas bill, your
property tax bill.
And you go, walking, why am Idoing that?
And then I got a woman thatworks for us, and she's blowing
off the roof and cleaning thegutters out and blowing the
driveways off and cleaning thescreen porches out and

(50:50):
rearranging all the shit in thegarage that next week's gonna be
out of place again.
You know what?

SPEAKER_02 (50:56):
Why do we do this?
Your current wife, who wasn'tyour wife at the time, yeah,
mentioned this many years ago tome.
Because I was asking, I waslike, I mean, Mark's busy as
hell with all these houses.
She goes, It's his canvas.
Yeah.
It is.
It is your canvas.
You you you you haven't you'reexpressing yourself in
everything that you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 (51:16):
The the way I look at houses, and I don't know if
you feel the same way, but youknow, you're you and I are
different.
You've got tons of properties.
I don't know how you're managingit all.
It's gotta be insane.
All right.
It's it's it's just it you haveit stretched yourself so thin on
all that.
I I don't know how you do it.
But anyway, the way I look at itis it's like the house has a

(51:39):
certain potential.
My wife and I share this exactview.
It's our duty to bring out themaximum potential.
But once we do, we're done withit.
Yeah, yeah.
It it's the potential out.
We got all the potential out ofit.
Yeah.
It's kind of like a business,it's the same way, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (51:56):
Well, the be the beautiful thing with that prop
with that real property, though,is that every second and effort
you spend in it most likely hasa real it returns itself.
Oh, yeah, it does.
It is truly an investment.
Yeah.
And I think that there's to me,it's like you've got an
expression, but at the sametime, you're adding value.
And so that's responsible.

(52:16):
Yeah.
It's a responsible place to putyour energy and time.

SPEAKER_03 (52:20):
It really is, but it does take a lot of energy and
time.
Oh no, hell yeah.
There's no doubt about it.
Yeah.
But you're also at the same timeexpressing yourself.
Right.
I'm expressing myself.
I'm improving the community, theneighborhood, the Yeah.
It's not like you're glorifyingmy ego, right?

SPEAKER_02 (52:38):
That's right.
Increasing your narcissism.
No, that's so true, though.
I mean, you feel okay about itbecause like it's different like
if you're just doodling on a,you know, you're just painting.
Right.
Where there's no value.

SPEAKER_03 (52:55):
I tried painting for a while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean it's not that gratifyingbecause it's well, because
design that's there's a lot ofrisk to the wastefulness of it,
right?

SPEAKER_02 (53:05):
And I some painters that obviously do well are
artists.
I mean, like yeah, by all means.
I know some.
But that expression to me, it'sthe same thing for me, right?
I could go out and take I usedto love doing photography.
Right.
You're you're artistic.
Yeah, making up from sunrise andall this stuff.
It's some beautiful stuff.
Well, I mean, it's kind of allright, right?
But I mean, like, I got a lotout of it.

(53:26):
Yeah.
But uh, but it but my businessmind overcame like, you know
what, I don't have time for thatbecause I don't see a return in
it.
Right?
But now if I go out and I'm deerhunting, sitting on a bow stand,
like there could be a return.
You know, to me that's a littlebit more of that.
But then it's more tangible.
It's more tangible, but then ifI if I'm out there building a

(53:48):
road on the hunting property,even better.
Because now I can access andwhen I sell it, you can access
it.
Yeah.
Right.
It's got real value to it.

SPEAKER_03 (53:58):
Well, I think a lot of this it's a learning.
Yeah, it it goes back to what isbusiness ownership all about?
What does it require out of youas an individual, which is going
to be a high level of engagementand commitment?
The myth of the business outthere on the side that provides

(54:18):
passive income.
That is so rare.
That is so rare.
It just almost never happens.
In fact, when I hear it, I'mlike, oh, you're getting ready
to fail.
Okay, that's my first thought.
Um, so that's a myth.
You gotta be highly engaged, yougotta be balancing a lot of

(54:39):
things at once.
You can't look at it all aswork.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's hard to define what's workand what's you.
Yeah.
And what's living.
That's true.
Okay.
And you want to bring out thepotential in the organization.
You want to maximize the effect,the impact of that business on

(55:02):
the whatever it is, the marketthat you serve, the community
that you serve, the lives ofyour employees.
Yep.
Okay, it all comes together in abeautiful process of building,
accomplishing something, makingthe world a better place in the
end.
That's right.
And yeah, hopefully there's apayoff.

(55:24):
Yeah.
If there's not a big monetarypayoff, there's at least a
psychic payoff.
I agree.
That's really good.

SPEAKER_02 (55:33):
Business owners.
Back to the mental health.
Yeah.
There's a tremendous amount ofmental health value in in have
in building your business.

SPEAKER_03 (55:42):
That's it.
The mental health value comesfrom feeling like I actually
accomplished something.
I was useful.

SPEAKER_02 (55:47):
I mean, yeah, you're contributed.

SPEAKER_03 (55:50):
Yes.
Yeah.
That's where the mental healthcomes.
Does it come from not working?
Is that give you good mental?
I have no stress, therefore, Ihave good mental health.
Dude, that's okay.
I wish we had another hour.

SPEAKER_02 (56:04):
Because that's the societal bullshit.
It is.
I'm not pointing at you like no,but that is this and that's the
problem.
That's the tension.
That's this this accepted forceof this of the masses, of the
societal, whoever came up withthis crap.
But see, it's just like thevacation thing.
You should have two weeks.

(56:25):
That is the proper way to relax.
It's not true.

SPEAKER_03 (56:29):
People don't realize how much pop culture, um, the
the internet, yeah, the media,yeah, contributes to unrealistic
expectations about life.
All right.
If we took all that away, wheredo we get those ideas?
Where do we get that programmingfrom?

(56:50):
Okay?
It's just like last night inclass, we were talking about um
buying and selling smallbusinesses.
And I said, you know, when youbuy a business, the normal
response of the employees isthis is gonna be bad.
They're gonna come in here,they're gonna fire a bunch of
people, okay?
They're gonna like sell off ourassets and ruin the business,

(57:14):
all right?
Now, where does that come from?
Have you ever watched any moviesor TV shows when a business is
sold?
What are the stories?
Is it a good story?
It never is.
What the media pushes out?
Never is, okay.
Or let's talk about how ourstate's portrayed in the media.
I live in Boston.
I want to recruit, I want you tocome to Arkansas, Eric.

(57:36):
Arkansas, what do you guys haveindoor plumbing there?
Where does that come from?
Well, it comes from this thisthis indoctrination of the
media.
And it it it goes, it's thisthis is the problem with the
culture that we operate in.

(57:56):
It creates these unrealisticexpectations about what business
ownership should be, whatsuccess is, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (58:06):
All of it's so true, man.
I love it.
It's it's I finally got you onthe conversation that I wanted.
And now we're out of and we'reout of time.

SPEAKER_03 (58:14):
Well, that's the way it is.
If people want to hear more,yeah, uh, see more, learn,
listen more to our shows, theyneed to go to www.bigtalkabout
small business.com.
We're also on all majorstreaming platforms.

SPEAKER_02 (58:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, go there, tune in, and Imean, hell, invite us to come
talk somewhere too.
We'd be that'd be fun as hell,wouldn't it?
It would be.
We're glad to do that.

SPEAKER_03 (58:37):
Yeah, man.
Um, so yeah, I've got uh uh weenjoy that.
We're here to help you, okay.
We have no selfish motivation.
Because God knows we ain'tgetting main money on this.
No, we aren't, because dang it,we haven't got a sponsor yet.
I'm hoping Pink comes through.
Pink, if you hear this, yeah,we'll talk you up.

(59:01):
We love what you're doing.
Okay, we love it.
We love it.
Come, come for us.
If you don't, we don't care.
But I think it's a good idea.
Yes, I do too.
I mean, think about what it'sgonna do for your business when
all these people hear about howgreat pink window washing is.

(59:21):
All right.
Well, hey, we're out of time.
Uh thanks, Eric.
It's always great being withyou.
It's good, it's good for thesoul.
I'm glad we had the combo.
Yeah, it's always great beinghere.
I look forward to it every week.
Well, until next week.
Another episode of that Big Talkabout small business.

SPEAKER_01 (59:45):
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