December 18, 2024 • 56 mins
Unlock the secrets to transforming your small business by tackling some of its most insidious issues head-on. What if the key to a more efficient and dynamic workplace lies in breaking the cycle of non-responsiveness and passive-aggressive behaviors? Join us as we peel back the layers of communication barriers and explore practical strategies to foster a more engaging and responsive organizational culture. Learn how to encourage your team to embrace delegation and efficiency, moving away from the safety net of busyness to unlock their full potential.
In the world of business acquisitions, not all buyers are created equal. Discover the stark contrast between strategic and financial buyers and the intricate dance of achieving true synergy. We highlight the often-overlooked importance of aligning incentive structures with overarching company goals and maintaining honesty about acquisition intentions. Through insightful examples, we reveal how the right company culture can make or break the success of mergers and acquisitions, proving that synergy is not just a buzzword but a strategic necessity.
Hiring the right team is crucial, but it's easy to fall into common pitfalls. We discuss the importance of aligning hires with your vision while avoiding the trap of building a culture of convenience rather than growth. Tune in to hear our personal experiences and learn why strategic hiring and a strong online presence can make all the difference. Finally, we emphasize the role of financial vigilance and the sacrifices necessary for sustainable growth, sharing personal anecdotes that illustrate the balance between frugality and business success. Join us for these insights and more as we equip you with the tools to thrive in the small business landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
hey everybody.
This is another episode of bigtalk about small business we're
back again.
We're gonna.
I told eric today we're gonnahave a serious talk.
Oh hell, okay, I'm ready, for Idon't even know what you're
gonna talk about.
Well, there's some things I didwant to talk about.
It's a.
It's some things I did want totalk about.
It's really dawned on me.
(00:27):
It's a big problem.
Okay, I'm going to beinterested to hear your
perspective on this, right, okay, and what this problem is?
I think it's absolutelypervasive through so many
organizations and that is thiswhen people who are in charge of
(00:47):
an area, or when partners aredealing with other partners in
their business and they make asuggestion and say we should do
X, or here's what I think weshould do one, two, three and
they send that to their.
Do one, two, three and theysend that to their partners or
(01:12):
somebody who works in thecompany for them or in a client
organization, and they just getnothing Dead air, as a response.
Okay, I've had a number ofsituations like that and it
becomes a pattern.
There's certain people, if theydon't agree with what you're
saying, they just don't sayanything.
They don't say anything, theydon't go.
You know what?
I hear you, but here's whywe're not going to do that.
(01:34):
Or here's where I have a problemwith that they simply stongwall
you and don't respond.
It's a passive, aggressive kindof thing.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And sometimes you got to askfour times yeah, okay, yeah, and
you just get no response.
If they don't like what you'resaying, you get no response.
Unacceptable, I agree, I I justam so tired of that.
(01:56):
Work it out okay.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, it's like the start of bureaucracy.
That's what that becomes, andif you're running a small
business, you can't have any ofthat stuff going on.
You can't.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
You've got to have honest dialogue because the
priorities are changingconstantly.
Anybody who thinks they canmake their plan out and it's
just execute their plan and it'sgoing to work out and with no
diversions or changes along theway, is kidding themselves.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So what do you do if you're the one that sent out
that note?
Right, I'm going to confront it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I'm not just going to let it sit there and go forever
.
I'm going to go.
I need a response here.
Yeah, yeah, I brought this upfour times I've got no response.
Okay, you're telling mesomething.
What's your problem with it,right?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, okay, you're telling me something.
What's your problem with it?
Right, yeah, okay, yeah.
And you got to be the onethat's insistent on getting that
response back, because it's notlike it's going to go away and
it's not like people are justgoing to do what needs to be
done, and I think a lot of thatgoes back to that statement.
I mean that I've kind of livedby.
That keeps me comfort in allthis business stuff, which is,
by the time you're tired ofsaying something, people are
starting to listen.
A lot of times if I've sent amessage like that, it's because
(03:07):
the team doesn't understand thevision again or as deep as they
need to understand it.
But it's super critical.
If I just let that float outthere and it doesn't ever get
addressed and I'm not the onethat's persistent on getting
that response then all it doesis just A it completely
stonewalls everything and itjust makes everything bottle up.
(03:29):
But then, b it teaches a habitthat that's acceptable and the
next thing, you know, that's allthat's happening.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And they're doing it to each other, and other people
are doing it because they seetheir bosses doing that.
Here's another problem, though,that absolutely drives me nuts.
Okay is when you ask somebodyto do something and they tell
you how busy they are.
Yeah, I can't do that becauseI'm so busy right now.
Okay, wait a minute.
(03:55):
Okay, whose company are youworking in here?
Okay, and you think you're busy.
It's like when I tell my kidsto do something, I can't do that
.
I don't have the time.
I'm like what are you?
Are you out of your mind?
You don't have the time.
You don't want to make the timebecause you don't want to do
(04:16):
this, but this is what we needto do now.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And a lot of those things are because the things
that have been discussed andplanned for a person to do, they
do them and they don't evertake the initiative to figure
out how to make that particularprevious objective
process-driven more efficient.
Oh, dude, pass it off.
(04:40):
Find contractors Bad, I meanjust bad managers, bad
delegators, bad managers,yeahators, bad managers, yeah,
all that, and then they can'tfill up their bucket more.
I mean there's no way that youcan start any position or role
and only do that one thing forthe rest of your life.
Oh, and then get paid moremoney.
Yeah, I know the economics ofthat make zero sense.
It's just not going to ever bepossible.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I have never worked with anybody who tells me that
they can't do something becausethey don't have the time, that I
could not figure out where thetime could be found.
Yeah, okay, it always comesback to what you're talking
about.
They are doing tasks thatthere's no reason they should be
doing.
They should part with those,but they're control freaks.
Yep, or they feel like that'ssome measure of job security
(05:28):
that other people don't know howto do those things, which is
the worst?
Yep, or they like to do thosethings and they don't give those
up, but it's not the best useof their freaking time yeah,
absolutely, and a lot of timesmaybe they're not even ambitious
in what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know, I mean, like when I used to work with
you, like if you gave me anotherthing, I don't think I ever
said I don't have the time, no,you would never do that, and
I've actually warned you to giveme more stuff.
That was the intent of what Iwas trying to continue to learn,
and if you asked me to dosomething, I took that as an
appreciation and that you knew Icould handle that.
Yeah, and I felt good aboutthat, right, and then I'd go try
(06:09):
to conquer it and murder it and, by the way, I would knew my
position and if I had otherpeople on the team that were
better suited for it, I wouldfigure out what you wanted me to
do.
I'd perfect that, make sure youwere good with it, and then I
would package that thing up andthen I'd go assign it to
somebody else that can do it.
Yeah, you're really good atthat, and I gave them the
process to it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's true You're good at that, but you know, my old
partner, fred White, used to saysmart people are inherently
lazy.
I don't know that it's laziness, I just think it's intelligence
is what it is.
It's intelligence is what it is, it's good management.
If somebody else can do this,that I can part with this.
(06:50):
It frees up my time to do otherstuff.
And how am I going to make thatpossible?
Of course, as you said, ittakes a little planning, it
takes a little instruction, butthen it takes a willingness to
see if they can freaking do it.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's interesting, you know.
I mean I think that the older Iget, the more I realize like
that.
You know, business is a lotlike marriage, in the sense of
where your partner grew up in acompletely different atmosphere,
learned all kinds of behaviors,make decisions.
They have all these fears thatare baked up inside every
decision that they make.
They're human beings.
(07:30):
Same thing in business when youhire folks and they get in, you
start realizing that a lot ofthem are scared to spend money
from the company, right, Eventhough I've told them I'm like,
hey, you have this budget, gospend it.
Or you have the ability tocontract.
Yeah, they think it's betternot to spend it, yeah, yeah, and
it's like, oh man, but then itdoesn't get done.
It doesn't get done and thenyou can't take on more
(07:52):
responsible things that I needyou to do to drive the business.
Yes, and so I mean I yourtime's being taken by trying to
coach people out of things thatmaybe they're going to be
resistant about doing that formonths I mean you're part of.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The problem is they came to work for you as an
employee.
Yeah, they're not thinking likean owner of a business.
They are more risk averse.
Naturally, they think they havea lot of preconceived notions.
I see it with my students, youknow.
When we talk about like in mynew venture class the idea of
using debt versus equity,they've been taught that debt's
(08:37):
all bad.
Okay, but wait a minute.
If I have debt, I can controlmy business.
I still own it.
That's right.
I may owe money to everybody,but I own the business as soon
as I part with the equity.
Now somebody else owns thebusiness.
Now we're going to go theirdirection, but it's so imbued in
(08:58):
them that debt is bad and it'sbecause of their upbringing.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It really is don't get a credit card.
Yeah, you know, if you get acredit card, you know spend a
hundred bucks on it, paid alloff the very next month, and
like that's not reallyleveraging the cash flow like
you probably should be able toright, you know, and I mean, and
then and then, oh, by the way,if you have debt one place,
you're stuck there forever untilyou paid off off.
No, you can refinance it.
(09:25):
You're always trying to figureout better rate, better terms.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Hey, and if I'm borrowing money at 8% but I'm
making 50% or 100% return on myinvested capital, why?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
wouldn't?
I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
All day Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, why wouldn't I?
Yeah, people are just so scaredabout this horror story of that
where you wreck up debt andthen you just owe it for the
rest of your life.
Everybody hates you, you can'tever borrow again, and that's
just not.
I mean, if you look in history,that's just not what a lot of
the entrepreneurs went through.
A lot of them went throughbankruptcies, but they still
(09:59):
continued on.
They still continued on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
The debt too.
There's different kinds.
I mean, if it's just debt forpersonal consumption, yeah,
that's one thing.
But if it's dead and you're,you're taking that debt on so
you can support your business,that's right and you can.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's another bad those hurdles that you can't get
over, right?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but anyway, you're right.
I mean the programming, thehistory, the how people are
raised, the culture, all thesethings affect their behavior
when they're working incompanies like ours.
Yep, yep, and it's difficult,you've got to.
Some of them are trainable,retrainable and some of them
(10:39):
aren't?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean, you know, I think that you know it's
interesting, even like with thecompany I have now, like there's
individuals, that I will investa little bit more because you
can see that they're wanting tobreak through themselves.
Yes, there's a light in there,there is, yeah, and then you
know a little flame there, alittle flame trying to blow up.
Yeah, and you can kind of reallysee that that ceiling that they
(11:02):
don't even know is there, thatthey put on themselves, but and
you can kind of really see thatthat ceiling that they don't
even know is there, that theyput on themselves.
But you know, sometimes theyhave to get to this point, to
where they have to introspect,they literally have to.
It's them conquering themselves.
And sometimes it has to kind ofget to a road where it's like
you know, I just had a caserecently that is like you know
they have to think about is thiswhat they want to do in life?
(11:24):
And then you let them go think,and then you come back and then
you know I'm like sitting there, going I don't know which, I'm
expecting it to go the way oflike look, this isn't for me,
but it actually turned out that,no, I'm going to take this on.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a beautiful thing, man.
You see them developing, yousee them maturing.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Oh man, it's gorgeous , it's wonderful, yeah, because
that's a forever.
That's actually a legacy thing,man Like.
If somebody can overcomethemselves, then you change your
generation, you change yourfamily history and your legacy
because you overcome something.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's one of the greatest satisfactions of being
a business owner 100%, it alwayscomes back to this is to seeing
your people succeed.
Okay, it's just so.
It's better than buying afreaking vacation house,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, it's better than money man 100% better than
money.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's so true.
Well, we got to pull somethingout of the hat.
Would you like to pull from thehat today, can I?
Yeah, please.
Thanks, mark.
We're pulling out of this YCATa topic and we're going to talk
about this briefly.
This one is just one word Okay,what's that?
(12:37):
Synergy, oh God, okay.
I think a lot of people thinkit's just a cliche, but it's
true.
You can't have synergy.
Sure, sure you know.
I think every acquisition froma strategic buyer, the intent is
to have synergy.
You know, now, a financialbuyer that just wants to keep
you out there on the side,there's not going to be any
(12:58):
synergy.
Right, right, but is itpossible?
Yeah, it is possible.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat work against it, though,
in a typical deal structure,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, yeah, on the acquisition side.
For the word synergy, I meanthat's kind of the big goal, but
it's actually I mean myexperience in acquisitions you
know and had a few and I knowthat you've had a lot more but
the integration and becomingsynergy with the company that
you acquired, or that wholething, is one of the hardest
(13:31):
things that I think thatcompanies can go through.
It is there's just not manypeople that I think that
companies can go through.
It is there's just not manypeople that I've seen do it very
well, even with their bestintentions.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well a lot of times the deal structure works against
it.
I mean, I had this discussionrecently with a client of mine
who got an offer and we'redealing with the M&A quote
advisor.
He's trying to get them to takethis deal, which was, in my
mind, a really crappy, bad dealthat they never should have
taken which they didn't,thankfully.
(14:03):
And there's not going to be anysynergy.
They say it's a strategic buyer, but then oh, we're going to
keep your name the same, we'regoing to keep you out on the
side over there, and a third ofthe deal is based on your earn
out, which is only what you do,what you get and what you do.
That's not synergy.
(14:26):
And there's no role identifiedfor the seller in the overall
company.
Their role is just keep runningtheir own business.
That's a financial buyer.
There's no synergy there.
Yeah, what's the point of beingpart of this network of
companies?
They're all held out there asindividual companies because of
(14:46):
the deal structure that you have.
And then, what's theintegration vehicle?
Yeah, do they have like regularmeetings?
Do all the clients get sharedbetween these companies?
Is there some mandatory processthat you look for expertise
through the entire network ofcompanies if you get a job.
No, there's none of that, right, right zero, and if you're the
(15:08):
seller if you have the rightminds.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The problem one problem with synergy is on those
things is you have one partythat really believes it and the
other one that really doesn't,but yet you're still using that
term as like.
That's why you should cometogether, right?
yes, if I'm a seller and I cansee that it's a just a for the
money part of the acquisition,if I can align that, okay, this
(15:31):
is what this is.
And then I don't have anexpectation.
I'm not going to spendemotional or time, energy into
trying to be centered, havingsynergy with this new buying
company and then just hitnothing but walls.
This can be absolutelyfrustrating, yes, and then
you're going to have a bad taste, your team's going to have a
bad taste.
I mean, everybody's going to bemiserable as hell.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It's like an outright misrepresentation of what the
situation is.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and I mean I think that maybe buyers should
come together, I mean, if theycan approach it as in that's
what exactly this is, then youdon't have all that extra
attention to something thatdoesn't even exist.
Yeah, good point.
I just want to buy you for yourassets.
I'm going to do my stuff.
Here's the deal.
If you want a little third andyou want to keep driving your
(16:18):
business, but just know thatyou're going to be over there on
your own.
If you want to take that,that's good.
It makes sense for mefinancially to pay you that.
But there's no integration here, bro.
I don't want you to be Behonest.
Honesty, Honesty, man, Like Idon't want your yeah be honest,
honesty, honesty man, it justcomes down to honesty, the whole
synergy thing is based on a lotof misrepresentation.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Whether it's intentional or it's a byproduct
of the culture and the dealstructure, it's a problem.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's agood point.
Anyway, I don't know Synergyinside the company.
I'm not sure that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, I think that inside the company, with the
team, to me that's culture.
Right, that is what the cultureis.
You're trying to have a culturethat is synergistic, but that's
not a one time thing and you'redone.
You can't just hope for that.
You have to work your butt off.
Oh, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I mean, it's just a constant initiative and again
you can't have your incentiveschemes all set up.
So you eat what you kill overhere and these guys eat what
they kill over there.
That's right.
Never is there any reason foryou to cooperate.
Ok, that's another commonproblem.
I see it's like the wholeincentive structure is geared
around how the particularrevenue-generating unit performs
(17:43):
as opposed to how the overall.
I never liked any of that in mycompanies.
I want the overall company tobe the only thing anybody cares
about.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But that's your apex of having synergy.
Yeah, if everybody's drivingthe same big number, then you
got to find your way to havegoals that are driving to that,
so that everybody knows that.
Okay, what I'm doing isimpacting that.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yes, some people who run companies are afraid to do
that because they say, well then, I'm not holding people
accountable, okay, there's noaccountability then.
Because I'm not holding peopleaccountable, okay, there's no
accountability then, because I'mjust part of this bigger thing
and, like you said, there's gotto be a way to measure and
report on the productivity.
But the thing about that I'vefound is, you know, businesses
(18:30):
run in cycles.
You know this.
Like you could have a companythat serves five different types
of clients.
These clients over here mightbe hot for three years, okay,
then that market cools down,yeah.
So meanwhile, while they're hot, these other ones aren't doing
that good, that's right as well,okay, but it you know, three
years later the situationchanges.
(18:51):
Yep, there's a reason why weserve these different groups of
clients or markets.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Plus they're, you know, yeah, no, absolutely Like.
I think that's been one of myexperiences.
We try to.
It's so easy for companies tokind of forget their OG clients,
which to me, in my mind, is themost important clients, right,
because you have thisrelationship and you try to, you
should be able to continue toaccommodate them and keep doing
(19:19):
what you're doing and getfocused on that.
You can't keep going for theshiny objects all the time.
There's a core, oh.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
God, I tell you that's such a problem in
professional service firms.
Yeah, it is.
They take their originalclients for granted and they put
their resources on the newclients, and then they put their
resources on the new clientsand then they use their, their
good old clients as a trainingground for any fights.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
it's always been one of my pet peeves oh it's like
dude, it happens on my side allthe time.
If I'm a buyer, yeah, like, I'mjust like I'm, you know, when I
talk to them and I find outthat they're going for bigger
clients, I'm like I know what'swhat they're, what they're doing
.
They're just I I'mdeprioritizing you being used.
I want your better team.
My money, my cash is just asgood as everybody else's.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, I don't want the second string here.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That's right, that's right, that's true, it's a hard
thing to fight.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
All right.
Well, I don't know that we'regoing to get any further on
synergy, so our topic for theday is the biggest mistakes
company founders make.
Okay, what do you think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Why is that important for people out there in the
listener land?
I mean, first of all, there's alot of them.
Yeah, there are, and I thinkthat if you go down that road,
like a lot of times when you'remaking decisions and you'll,
what I've found is that some ofthe smaller what I thought were
(20:45):
small decisions become justabsolutely enormous big problems
, and they don't ever and younever have more time than you do
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
A great illustration of that is hiring the wrong
people from the start.
Who do typically new companieshire Relatives, people they know
, people who work cheap, friendsand family.
Yep, friends and family, mm-hmm.
That's where the you know, andthose are the problems that
(21:16):
later on manifest themselves.
Yep, as much bigger issues.
Yep, easy to make.
Now I need something done.
I don't have a lot of money,someone says available to help
me out, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Right, yeah, I think there's difference.
You know and you got to.
It depends on the role withinthe company.
So like, for example, withpodcast videos, what I did is I
didn't hire highly experiencedleaders in the beginning, Like
you know, like I didn't likehigh earners or experienced
people.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Sure, you can't afford to.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I mean you're starting out yeah, can't afford
to.
And then also what I've learnedthat can be a massive problem.
Can't afford to, and then alsowhat I've learned that can be a
massive problem.
Because what I need to do inthe beginning is I have to
articulate a specific vision.
I don't want my company beinganother agency or another one of
these things.
I'm trying to innovatesomething, I'm trying to create
something new and based on myexperience and my investment
(22:13):
this is my investment and basedon my experience and my
investment, you know this is myinvestment and so I want to.
I need to articulate the visionwith tangible results and real
work right, and I need folks toget in there and just follow
direction and just go into theuncharted territories for them.
But I know where it's going.
Then I bring on leaders oncethe work has.
(22:35):
We've figured out the workright, you know, and so we're
kind of in that stage right now.
But I did actually last yearhire a leader for more of the
business practices theoperational, the project
management, the you know thefinancial parts, you know the,
the kind of the ones that are,like you know, does actually
need to require.
It doesn't require anything,you know super specific to our
(22:57):
industry.
I mean there is an attitude toit.
But I need somebody that couldthink and lead in that specific
realm.
And so I think it's a lot abouttiming and you know, and even
then, like I don't know if I dideverything right, but you know,
I feel like that it's the rightway to go.
You know, and even then, like Idon't know if I did everything
right, but you know, I feel likethat it's the right way to go,
you know.
(23:17):
And then leaders can come inand they can polish really well,
yeah, and they can startleading people.
You know, Refining, Refining.
They're helping guide folks,they're looking at better goals,
they're paying more attentionto the team that I, you know,
maybe couldn't have given thatamount of attention to.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, and maybe your people you hired had to be
pulled in a lot of differentdirections too, initially
because you can't just hireexperts for everything Right?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
No, and then they're doing a lot of things and as you
add another person on,everybody becomes a little bit
more focused in the lane.
You know, at first it's reallybroad.
Right, exactly, and that's ahard thing too.
Yes, right, exactly, and that'sa hard thing too.
If you have one person doing alot of stuff and you hire
somebody else, it's like thisperson that was doing a lot has
(24:04):
a big struggle to let go and letthis other person take on work,
even though that's what they'vewanted the whole time.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But it's a really hard transition Sometimes they
resent them too, they're likewell, yeah, of course, they can
do a good job with that.
That's the only thing they'vegot to do.
Yeah, or they feel threatened,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You know?
I mean that's going back to thefear stuff, but I think that,
like when we're talking about,the biggest mistakes is, you
know, when you hire somebody,like it's not just hiring and
letting them walk in the doorand get to work, right?
I mean there there's somepreemptive things, discussions
you've got to have with theexisting team.
They have to really understandand you have to be very
(24:43):
attentive to the fears thatmight be being placed in people,
and so I try to do a try to doa better job of that preemptive
discussions, making sure thatsuch a no this is not a
threatening.
I'm bringing in this.
Yeah, this is going to helpthis.
This is help.
This is going to help you grow.
This is going to helpeverything out and don't be
(25:03):
worried about your job well, I,I've got another situation.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So it's a company I'm intimately involved with as a,
as an owner and, um, you know,when you talk about mistakes
that founders make, I mean, thewhole culture of the place was
based on.
This is a lifestyle business.
So we hire people who want tocome here and have a certain
lifestyle.
(25:28):
We don't want to work over fourdays a week.
We want to be able to go oncamping trips with our buddies.
We want to be able to, everyFriday night, um, talk about
what independent brew pub we'regoing to and what band is
playing.
Um, if you're following me, okay, we're not necessarily here to
(25:51):
build this company.
Yeah, to enrich you as theowner, which is not the only
purpose of it whatsoever.
So to try to get them to gofrom that's the culture to where
we don't want to work that hard.
We work here because we don'twant to work hard.
We don't care that we don'tmake a lot of money.
(26:12):
Yeah, we'd like to make moremoney.
We'll complain about it everyso often, but when it really
comes down to the nut cutting,we're not going to make any
sacrifice to make more money,okay, or make this thing better.
So that culture that is createdfrom the get-go, because it
starts out as a hobby.
(26:32):
Yeah, man, it's a real problemfor some businesses.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, okay, that seems like a really great idea,
you know Peaceful, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, it's not sustainable.
So you're right, You've got togo back to the vision and you've
got to explain to people whatthe real vision is, how that's
going to benefit them and changetheir lives, what we're going
to have to go through in orderto make that happen.
And some of those people willnot be there.
Some of them, a light's goingto go off and say, oh my gosh,
(27:05):
yeah, we could do that.
I could have a different lifethan I have right now.
Maybe it won't be so hand tomouth.
Maybe I can actually pay for mykid to go to college or, you
know, have steak instead of 80%lean burger every time.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's like, maybe I couldactually.
(27:27):
So some people will wake up tothat and the vision's got to be
one that they see themselvesparticipating in and benefiting
from.
But I do think you know we'retalking about mistakes companies
make.
We create an expectation on thefront end because of a lack of
(27:47):
resources or the scale thatwe're operating at at that time.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I think it's, you know, on the lifestyle thing, I
think that's a really dangerousscenario and I've seen a lot of
people do that, especially thathave worked a long time in
corporate.
Yeah, you know, I mean it'sfirst of all.
It's, you know, I mean a lot,of, a lot of care work where
they were at and they see a lotof things that are happening and
they attach that the all thenegatives that they experience
(28:16):
were because the company is justfocused on money.
Yeah, you know.
And so then they want to starta business that doesn't focus on
money, yes, or focus on revenue, you know, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I've probably been guilty of that myself in the
past.
Oh yeah, Even comparing myoriginal business to my
successor business.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Right, yeah, and so you want to create this
environment.
I don't need the money.
I don't need money.
We're not after money.
We're after friendships andwhatever else it might be.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Building public visions of our art or whatever,
right?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, it's such a dangerous thing because if you
start out a business with thatintent, you're going to
basically you know businessesare nothing but a group of
people, right, and then you'regoing to be hiring people based
on that reality.
But those people, like I, wouldhave loved that type of
business when I was, you know,maybe 19 years old and had a
great time.
But by the time I'm 27 and Ihave a kid and I'm married, shit
(29:15):
changes real quick.
No kidding.
Exactly, and so you're going tohave these people that are going
to grow out of this perspective.
Yes, and they need more.
They want more.
And you're going to lose peoplebecause of that.
Good people, good people yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And they can't find a pathway.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
So I think that there's not a way to start a
business that doesn't have anobjective to build revenue, grow
, have an exit or provide a lotof financial resources.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, and maintain good people.
I agree with that.
I've always said growth has tobe.
When business owners tell me,well, we don't really want to
grow, I'm like, okay, you're notgoing to have anybody good,
that's going to work hereeventually.
Yeah, okay, you're not going tohave anybody good that's going
to work here eventually.
Yeah, okay, this, it's notgoing to be self-sustaining.
Utopias don't work, do they?
No, they don't.
So what other mistakes say doyou think founders make?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
you know, I think I mean one of the biggest one is
not, is not investing in insales?
Yeah, marketing, oh god, yes,you know what I'm saying.
Oh my god, it's the no marketing, it's, it's so common and you
have in in the bucket ofmarketing is advertising, you
know, and you have to invest inadvertising.
Yep, in your marketing plan.
(30:26):
You know?
Yeah, you know honestly, at myprevious company, we had a like
basically a zero dollaradvertising budget, however,
company.
We had basically a $0advertising budget.
However, we had a different wayto make sure we were in the
public.
We did a lot of in-kindmarketing support that were
already exposed to certainaudiences that we wanted to be
(30:49):
in front of.
So, even though we spent littleto no cash, time was invested
significantly, and that's money.
Very much so, yeah, and so Ithink that if you don't have
this relentless pursuit of beingout in front, showing up, being
in front of your target, andthat's not a significant part of
(31:10):
your plan, then you're foolingyourself.
Because I see, a lot of times Ihear like product's the most
important.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I agree, your product is, but if you don't have a way
to promote that, then you'reyeah, just building a better
mousetrap doesn't meaneverybody's going to be the path
to your door, right?
I mean you see this over andover and over again.
I mean it blows my mind.
I had a tenant in one of myretail centers who had a
restaurant.
He had really good food.
(31:38):
Okay, this guy had hisrestaurant established in
another location.
He moves to our location.
He doesn't even put a sign upin his old location.
I've moved to a new location.
He does nothing, zero socialmedia posts.
Okay, all I could think tomyself was, if I had that
restaurant, I swear to you I'dput five to 10 posts a day on
(32:04):
Instagram and Facebook of myfood and my customers enjoying
my food.
That's right, okay.
And if I just did that everyfreaking day not the days I felt
like it, and then not doing itfor a week or a month, every
single day, boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom, boom that guy
(32:24):
would have been successful.
It's like if you said that tohim, he'd be like oh, I don't
have time for that.
How long does that take?
Not long.
I can go to the bathroom andput my damn post out.
I could sit there at night andmake five of them in 20 minutes,
10 minutes probably, andschedule them to go out.
Yeah, there's so much you cando.
(32:44):
Now.
It's like it's not that hard,but they don't do it, you know.
But I've got really good foodokay.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, but one of the easiest things I can see that
you know, especially a businessthat's a local business, has a
local audience, like arestaurant, one of the biggest
misses that I see these folksdoing that is the easiest thing
to do and probably one of themost important is focus on your
Google business business, yeah,of course you know what I'm
saying.
Yeah, your search, your, yoursearch criteria, yeah, just for
(33:15):
where your location is on themap, and you go in and you build
out that profile, you make sureyour hours are accurate, you
pay attention, oh god there's somany of you.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I mean just drive for reviews on that that is so
critical there's one businessthat I again it's interesting
because it's the same owners ofthe one I told you that failed.
If you go and you do a Googlesearch and you get their phone
number and you dial that number,you know, by clicking on it it
doesn't work.
That's terrible.
It hasn't worked in two years.
(33:46):
You can't.
And they're like no, no, thatdoesn't work.
Like, fix it, for god's sake.
10 minutes.
Yeah, I'm trying to make afreaking order from you and I
get a random recording.
Yeah, because your number'swrong here.
Yeah, I mean, it's terrible,it's so easy, but hey, I'm too
busy for that.
(34:06):
Yeah, don't bother me with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got tobe relentless in the sales.
I saw another business herelocally that was started by one
of my former students and herboyfriend's significant other,
mm-hmm, and I think they'rehaving some success with it,
okay.
But then I saw their signyesterday on North College,
(34:27):
mm-hmm, and they've got thissign out by the street.
It's elevated and everything.
You can't even read the sign,eric.
It's white writing on a lightpink background.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's some fundamentals there.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
What?
Wouldn't you notice that?
What I want to go slap him.
Is that obvious?
Wait, what the hell is wrongwith you?
You can't see that?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, hey, one thing I want to go back to the hiring
the right people.
Okay, well, we're stepping backnow.
Yeah, well, because how does abusiness owner identify those
people?
Because the interview process.
I'm not a really big believerin a totally structured
interview process, especiallyfor a small business.
(35:15):
Yeah, I hear you.
How do you find the rightpeople?
To me that's like this mysteryin a way.
I guess that over time I founda way to clue in, but I think it
comes back to you have to beable to have something
instinctual in you.
Yeah, so when I'm talking topeople, like I'm really
listening to what they'retalking about, about their
(35:39):
personal life and what'simportant to them, you know, and
I'm trying to gauge howimportant is it that you come
into this business and that youare driving for the growth of
the company.
Yeah, and if I hear things thatare in my mind, counter to that
, counter to that, yeah, it's ared flag, it is a massive red
(36:02):
flag.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think you know I'm a big believer in a consistent
process for hiring, but thatdoesn't mean I believe in a
consistent process forinterviewing.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Okay, tell us more.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, there's certain steps you need to follow, okay,
like, first thing is is thereanybody inside the company?
You know, I mean, what do Iwant somebody to do?
Is there anybody inside thecompany?
Is there somebody inside thecompany who wants that job?
Yeah, we ought to at least givethem a chance.
(36:34):
I mean, there's certain things.
Before I run an ad, I shouldlook at my database of prior
applicants and see if that gotanybody in there, okay.
So that's what I mean.
When I say a consistent product,I mean we're going to write an
offer.
The offer letter is going tohave certain things in it.
We're going to give peoplecertain materials on the company
.
We're going to have a certainyou know, we're not going to
(36:54):
give them two weeks to make adecision.
We give them 48 hours.
There's certain things that wealways do, okay.
And we're going to have acertain onboarding process Okay.
All that, I think, needs to beconsistent.
But when you sit down in a roomwith somebody and meet them,
that's where you know.
Do I ask these 10 questions?
No, not necessarily.
It's what you said.
It's like I want to get to knowthe person.
(37:14):
I want them to let their guarddown.
I don't want them to bedefensive.
That's the only way I'm reallygoing to figure out what they're
all about, and so it takes amuch less structured approach, I
think I agree, I agree, I'm abig hey, let's have coffee and
let's chat, let's meet, let'sdiscuss.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
What's going on?
Burby, ben, what have you done?
And then, you know, followingup with that, like what's the
response time?
Yeah, noticing, if they've.
You know, what have they beendoing for the last couple weeks
since we started talking?
You know, my biggest one isit's like hey, I can't.
You know, when do you want tocome back in and talk again and
keep talking about the job?
Well, it's Monday, right, and Imet with you on Friday last
(37:56):
week.
Oh, I'm out for the next twoweeks on vacation, right, you
know?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Like no, no, no, no, no.
We used to always look at theircars in the parking lot to see
what their car looked like.
If they were slobs they didn'thave to have a nice car or
anything.
But if it's filthy and you lookat the interior and it's all
just got fast food trash in itor whatever it's like uh-uh.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
They're not taking care of themselves.
It's going to be hard to takecare of a company Exactly and
take care of a bigger family, nopride.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I'll never forget one guy that this company.
The first day I went there andI was in charge of HR for a
particular section of thecompany it's called Division One
, it was Memphis and Little Rockand the boss, the CEO, he was
interviewing a guy.
The first day I show up for CFOhe comes out of his office.
(38:46):
He says I want you to meet ournew CFO and I meet this guy.
Okay, and I immediately got anegative feeling about him.
I won't get into my prejudiceson why, but I did so I get.
I said let me see the resume onthat guy, don, so I get it.
He's got an MBA from Memphisstate, 77 to 78.
(39:07):
Undergraduate in finance 77 thisis like 1983, okay, so I well,
first off is before, while hewas in there interviewing the
guy, went out in the parking lotto see what he was driving.
Because we had visitor spotsyeah, 72 cadillac deville, no
fender skirts.
They were gone and no hubcapson it and I'm like, wait a
(39:31):
minute.
And this guy's got an NBA.
Doesn't look like an NBA car tome.
I was driving like a 79 or 80Saab 900 turbo at the time.
That was a yuppie car that youdrive if you were an NBA you
know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Not a yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Not a 72 Caddy, yeah, with no fender skirts, and
you've got to fix that stuff,and no hubcaps.
You've got to fix that and Ithought this doesn't add up.
Anyway, to make a long storyshort, I start checking the
background out on this guy and Ifind out he does not have
(40:10):
either an MBA or a degree infinance.
It was all a lie.
I made the CEO Rene, on ouroffer.
Oh wow, I said, don, you hiredthis guy.
Now you got to get us out of it.
Lying, okay, lying, deception,first day on the job.
But I'm just.
The only reason I point thatout is, like you say, the signs.
Yeah, don't, you can't ignorethe signs.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Well, because bringing on people, especially
in service-based business I meanobviously in any business the
most expensive investment youcan make, it's one of those
things where it should be along-term investment.
I mean you don't hire peoplefor a short time period, unless
that's exactly why you hiredthem, but I mean, once that
(40:49):
problem starts, that's one ofthe hardest things to get out of
.
Oh, I'm telling you, it takesso much energy out of everything
.
You keep giving people chances,you keep trying to work on it,
but if the whole time the sourceof that person, that individual
, is not in line to acclimate,then that problem will never be
rectified.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I saw this video.
I know you like Gary Vee.
Yeah, yeah, okay, he's fine.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I mean, I don't love him, but he's good with me.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
He makes some good points he does.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I mean, yeah, he seems like an asshole.
On a certain level he'segocentric or whatever he was
talking about.
One of the greatestsatisfactions of business is
firing what you call D-headsyeah, did you see that video?
And because they're so negativeand there's such a problem that
when you get rid of them youfeel so good he goes, and
(41:40):
sometimes they're greatperformers, but they're not
people who get it.
He goes.
Good performers are either goodperformers for one of two
reasons Because they are verysecure or because they're very
insecure, because most are veryinsecure.
Therefore they alienate peoplearound them.
Therefore they're a problem.
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Anyway, I just thought that was kind of funny
the problem is that once youhire somebody like that, it
takes a while to start seeingthose things come out.
A lot of times they're lying,they're fibbing, they're smoking
mirrors, yeah and then we delayon making decisions we don't
want to.
You know we're back to the restof the nation, don't want to
hurt the rest of the team, don'twant to start all over again.
Oh yeah, that's hard, but youhave to do it.
(42:24):
You have to do it, you have todo it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
A couple other things I think people do, aside from
hiring the wrong people anddoing nothing in marketing, is
they don't do a good jobtracking their numbers.
They don't really follow anykind of financial plan.
Yeah, I'm going to be paranoid.
I'm going to be looking at mybank accounts every single day.
(42:48):
I'm going to be on QuickBooks10 times a day.
Okay, to see what the hell isgoing on.
I'm going to have, I'm going to, I'm going to have a cashflow
forecast.
I'm looking ahead to seewhether I'm going to run out of
money or not.
I am absolutely driven byparanoia about the money, yeah,
and I think a lot of people arejust too loose and they almost
(43:09):
don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I'm guilty man.
I admire that in you.
I want to know how to do thatmore Well.
You're too well off.
No, no, no, that's your problem.
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
I mean honestly, like even whenever I was negative,
everything I ever had is likegot no capital at all.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Okay, everything I ever had has got no capital at
all.
I've always been loose on thatas far as paying attention to it
.
I don't know why I need tofigure that out.
It's not exciting, but it'salso like it.
You know, it kind of almost iswhat it is, and so my mind's
(43:51):
just 100% on new business.
Yeah, like if I can bring morein at the top, you'll solve
every problem.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I understand that logic too.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I am very revenue driven.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's why I always hate it.
When I hire these people whotell me we've got to get out of
that, we don't make money onthat, we need to pull the plug
on that we don't make.
I'm like, no, you don't, I'mnot going to give up any of my
revenue here.
Guys, you want me to get out ofthis because you don't make
money on it.
That pays for overhead still.
(44:21):
Yeah, pull that out.
Worse, you know how much moredo we have to make everywhere
else to make up for the quoteloss of selling this that we
don't make money on anyway?
It's always been a pet peeve ofmine, so you watch that, you
watch those numbers like a hawk.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Oh my god, do I ever.
Yeah, yeah, always.
And my wife is the same way.
Like I mean, anything that hitsthe account she's investigated,
yeah, 100.
She'll text me hey, did you dothis?
I'm like, yeah, I mean, thatwas me, you know, but I mean
like it's, there's never asecond.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I do think that's a mistake that a lot of small
business owners make.
Okay, that, coupled not knowingtheir numbers, which then
impacts where they spend moneyand the things they spend money
on, and then that, coupled withtaking too much out too early,
okay, it's like, well, you know,as you said, I had my corporate
(45:14):
job.
I made 200k a year or whatever.
I gotta live on 200k.
No, no, you need to learn tolive on like nothing for a while
, or 50k or whatever.
Yeah, everything goes back inthe business.
Everything caught, everything,cotton, everything.
When I started my company, I hada new 4Runner and I had a new
Alfa Romeo.
I say new within a year?
Okay, 4runner and Alfa RomeoGone.
(45:38):
Okay, I bought myself a $300Dodge Colt Nice, not a bad club.
No, $200.
I paid $200.
I sold it two years later for$300.
Yeah, I paid $200.
I sold it two years later for$300.
I made $100.
Boom, and I'm a car guy.
I hated that, sure, but youdidn't have to sacrifice Exactly
.
I wanted every dollar I coulddirect into the business and not
(46:02):
personal consumption, and Iknow you lived like that.
Oh, totally, I still do in alot of ways.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, you were lived like that.
Oh, totally, I still do.
In a lot of ways, yeah, youwere always like that and you
have to learn to navigate thatpersonally, and then you also
have to navigate your family.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Hey, I remember when you had a 4,000-square-foot
two-story house in a veryaffluent area and you moved out
of that into your rental.
Oh yeah, it was probably 1,500square feet in a predominantly
student-oriented area, right,yeah.
And you didn't really doanything to the place either
(46:42):
when you moved in.
No, because you're like youknow what I'm going to live?
Freaking cheap, super cheap,dirt cheap, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
And that was you know what I'm going to live?
Freaking cheap, Super cheap,Dirt cheap.
Yeah, and that was you know.
Some of those things arehumbling.
Of course they are, you know.
Especially, I remember wheneverI did that and then I had like
some folks over from the teamand there were people like, oh
my gosh, our CEO lives in thisdump, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It wasn't a dump, but I mean it, but wasn't what you
lived in.
No, before.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
No, but it was.
But it was definitely a shocker, but, in all honesty, they were
making more than I was at thetime.
Yeah, and I've lived like Imean, I've lived off of zero
payroll for nine months at atime, right back in the day,
when I didn't have anything insavings and I was putting things
on but you didn't have a twinum bridal staircase.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
no, like that, that house you had before that.
But you didn't have a twinbridal staircase.
No, like that house you hadbefore that.
No, I didn't.
I seem to remember the stairscame down on both sides and
dumped, didn't they?
Yeah, am I wrong about that?
They were curved?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, they were.
It would come down.
On one side it had theselandings, that would come down.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, but it was definitely, it was impressive,
it was grand.
It was grand Like a two-storyentry.
Yeah, yeah, it was grand, butyou don't need all that bullshit
.
No Right, you got to live cheap.
You got to fuel this thing thatmakes you money.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Everything goes back in, everything goes back towards
sales and marketing.
I did.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
It's reinvesting.
I did the same thing I Secondcheapest house in Natick,
massachusetts, when I bought myhouse in 1988 there, yeah, okay,
and believe me, it was so ugly,lime green, built 1870.
The entire yard had a chainlink fence around it and was
paved with asphalt.
It looked like an industrialcompound.
(48:22):
Okay, now the house I hadbefore that in Texas, wasas, was
completely redone.
It wasn't fancy but it wastotally redone.
I was saying before that inmemphis was a five bedroom,
three and a half bath ingermantown in a community that
had a community pool andclubhouse, and I bought it from
a doctor.
Yeah, okay, I mean, I'm justsaying it's, it's sacrifice and
(48:47):
I lived there for eight years inthat house.
Even when I was making a lot ofmoney, I was still living in
that house.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Because you were continuously reinvesting in the
business.
And I think that that's a youknow, there are a lot of folks
that want to be an entrepreneur,that have good jobs, you know,
making good money.
The risk is is that do yourecognize what you're going to
have to sacrifice?
Because you are going to?
If there's one thing that'strue in owning a business, it's
(49:13):
starting a business.
It's absolute sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Sacrifice financially and time Totally.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Everything Health, Whatever it takes man.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, I mean, my health isn't enhanced by a half
a pack of Lucky's and four cupsof coffee and a Burger King
Whopper at lunch, no man.
But I can get in five minutesand drive while I'm eating it.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
No, I shouldn't admit that I do those things I still
do.
I was thinking the other dayI'm damn near 67 years old and
the average lifespan for a malein this country is 73.
Oh wow, so that gives me likesix more years to live.
My 13 year old is only going tobe a freshman in college when I
keel over, but that's notwhat's going to happen, okay you
got these genetics that you canlast till hundreds I need to
(50:02):
change, um, but yeah, so I thinkwe could go on.
There's a lot of mistakesfounders make, but unfortunately
we're running out of time.
Okay, it's been good.
Yeah, this is a good discussiontoday.
It's a serious discussion.
We want to help people.
Yeah, we want them to learnfrom us.
(50:24):
You don't have to learneverything on your own, that's
true.
Okay, that's true.
Learn from other true.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Learn from other people, learn from their
mistakes, learn from theirexperience and don't think that
these and look for the commonthreads that everybody says yeah
, and there's a lot of the timeswhere the things we talk about
are the common threads thatevery entrepreneur and business
owner would tell you, becauseit's.
It doesn't matter how smart youare or how good you think your
plan is, or your forecast andyour pro formas and all these
(50:51):
business planning tools that youhave.
You can have the best in theworld, but as soon as you hit
the streets with that puppy, youwill absolutely sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's essential.
It really is.
I'm so lucky that over the last20 years being a professor
working here at the U of A inthe Walton College, and all the
guest speakers that I bring inpeople like yourself and many
others who have started and ownbusinesses or work in
family-owned businesses orbought businesses or sold
(51:23):
businesses the experience that Ihave been able to capture from
all those people, coupled withall the projects my students do,
it's been a tremendouseducation for me.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, and now you're passing this on.
On this show I'm trying to.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
No, it's good though I'm trying to, I hope people
take what we're saying seriouslyand realize that they can
implement a lot of what we'retalking about here To make their
lives better, make theirbusiness more successful,
improve the lives of theiremployees and their clients and
(52:03):
customers.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
And then create change in the marketplace to
keep us going.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
And create a lot of value they can cash in on
someday that's right and developother options for themselves in
the way of time and businessopportunities and ways to
exercise creative expression.
Yep, okay, that comes fromhaving an exit.
Yep, oh, absolutely, at somepoint where you get paid back
for all that, yeah, and comesfrom having an exit Yep, oh,
(52:28):
absolutely, at some point whereyou get paid back for all that,
yeah, and it's risky as hell.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, it's risky, but it's Not being negative, but
it's the reality to it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, but it's I always say.
But you know, I still don'tthink business ownership is as
risky as working in corporate.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
America?
Speaker 1 (52:45):
No, I agree, at least you can see things coming, you
can navigate it.
Yeah, your head's on thechopping block any minute.
It's like you're self-employedand you have one client or
customer.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yep, and the idea that you're not vulnerable to
that and you're not taking arisk is not truth.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
It's not.
I mean, there used to be acartoon of a fish in a blender.
You know sitting there like,and you know at any moment the
corporate boss can push thebutton.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
Don't give yourself anyillusions of your security.
Somebody else?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
outside of your control.
Can push that blender button,Yep, but you can keep swimming
around in that blender.
Yeah, we can feel like hey.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
I got a lot of room in here.
Life's great, yeah, so anyway,well, listen, it's been great.
Again, if you would like toreach out to us, get on our
website,wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom.
We do value your feedback andyour questions.
(53:48):
If you'd like to sponsor ourshow again, reach out to us on
our website or to either Eric ormyself as individuals and we
can talk about how we can helpyou grow your business.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yep, if you have a business and you want to come on
the show we want to hear fromyou.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
If you're a parasite, he's got a one-man company.
No, we're not interested.
I'm sorry.
I mean, I get these thingscontinuously.
Okay, it's like no, we don'twant that business.
We want you where you'veactually that's your number one
marketing channel.
Yeah, we want to where you'veactually got your number one
marketing channel.
Yeah, we want to see you'veactually done something, not
(54:30):
like, hey, I've got a thing I'mgoing to sell, like a million
other people sell, but I'm a oneman band and I haven't really
done it yet.
No, no, we're not looking forthat.
Yeah, so we do have some goodguests coming up here soon.
Next week we're going to betalking with Gary Head, a
signature bank.
He's a real character.
(54:51):
For those of you who don't knowGary, he's the bank founder.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Everybody knows Gary.
Yeah, everybody's.
The guy is hysterical, but he'salso really smart.
Yeah, no, he is, and he wasactually the banker for Merle
Haggard.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Oh, are you serious yeah?
Speaker 1 (55:09):
That's cool.
He was a crazy guy.
But yeah, Merle Haggard likedGary and did his banking with
him.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh, that's awesome.
He didn't live around here.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
We need to talk about Merle Haggard next week then.
But Gary knew all of them.
He knew Don Tyson, he knew JBHunt, he knew Sam Walton, all JB
Hunt, the new Sam Walton, allof them Cool.
So that's going to be fun, goodshow.
So, anyway, until next week.
This has been another episodeof Big Talk About.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Small Business.
We switched that up.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
That was pretty tight , See you everybody.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(56:14):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
hey everybody.
This is another episode of bigtalk about small business we're
back again.
We're gonna.
I told eric today we're gonnahave a serious talk.
Oh hell, okay, I'm ready, for Idon't even know what you're
gonna talk about.
Well, there's some things I didwant to talk about.
It's a.
It's some things I did want totalk about.
It's really dawned on me.
(00:27):
It's a big problem.
Okay, I'm going to beinterested to hear your
perspective on this, right, okay, and what this problem is?
I think it's absolutelypervasive through so many
organizations and that is thiswhen people who are in charge of
(00:47):
an area, or when partners aredealing with other partners in
their business and they make asuggestion and say we should do
X, or here's what I think weshould do one, two, three and
they send that to their.
Do one, two, three and theysend that to their partners or
(01:12):
somebody who works in thecompany for them or in a client
organization, and they just getnothing Dead air, as a response.
Okay, I've had a number ofsituations like that and it
becomes a pattern.
There's certain people, if theydon't agree with what you're
saying, they just don't sayanything.
They don't say anything, theydon't go.
You know what?
I hear you, but here's whywe're not going to do that.
(01:34):
Or here's where I have a problemwith that they simply stongwall
you and don't respond.
It's a passive, aggressive kindof thing.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And sometimes you got to askfour times yeah, okay, yeah, and
you just get no response.
If they don't like what you'resaying, you get no response.
Unacceptable, I agree, I I justam so tired of that.
(01:56):
Work it out okay.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, it's like the start of bureaucracy.
That's what that becomes, andif you're running a small
business, you can't have any ofthat stuff going on.
You can't.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
You've got to have honest dialogue because the
priorities are changingconstantly.
Anybody who thinks they canmake their plan out and it's
just execute their plan and it'sgoing to work out and with no
diversions or changes along theway, is kidding themselves.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So what do you do if you're the one that sent out
that note?
Right, I'm going to confront it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I'm not just going to let it sit there and go forever
.
I'm going to go.
I need a response here.
Yeah, yeah, I brought this upfour times I've got no response.
Okay, you're telling mesomething.
What's your problem with it,right?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, okay, you're telling me something.
What's your problem with it?
Right, yeah, okay, yeah.
And you got to be the onethat's insistent on getting that
response back, because it's notlike it's going to go away and
it's not like people are justgoing to do what needs to be
done, and I think a lot of thatgoes back to that statement.
I mean that I've kind of livedby.
That keeps me comfort in allthis business stuff, which is,
by the time you're tired ofsaying something, people are
starting to listen.
A lot of times if I've sent amessage like that, it's because
(03:07):
the team doesn't understand thevision again or as deep as they
need to understand it.
But it's super critical.
If I just let that float outthere and it doesn't ever get
addressed and I'm not the onethat's persistent on getting
that response then all it doesis just A it completely
stonewalls everything and itjust makes everything bottle up.
(03:29):
But then, b it teaches a habitthat that's acceptable and the
next thing, you know, that's allthat's happening.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And they're doing it to each other, and other people
are doing it because they seetheir bosses doing that.
Here's another problem, though,that absolutely drives me nuts.
Okay is when you ask somebodyto do something and they tell
you how busy they are.
Yeah, I can't do that becauseI'm so busy right now.
Okay, wait a minute.
(03:55):
Okay, whose company are youworking in here?
Okay, and you think you're busy.
It's like when I tell my kidsto do something, I can't do that
.
I don't have the time.
I'm like what are you?
Are you out of your mind?
You don't have the time.
You don't want to make the timebecause you don't want to do
(04:16):
this, but this is what we needto do now.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And a lot of those things are because the things
that have been discussed andplanned for a person to do, they
do them and they don't evertake the initiative to figure
out how to make that particularprevious objective
process-driven more efficient.
Oh, dude, pass it off.
(04:40):
Find contractors Bad, I meanjust bad managers, bad
delegators, bad managers,yeahators, bad managers, yeah,
all that, and then they can'tfill up their bucket more.
I mean there's no way that youcan start any position or role
and only do that one thing forthe rest of your life.
Oh, and then get paid moremoney.
Yeah, I know the economics ofthat make zero sense.
It's just not going to ever bepossible.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I have never worked with anybody who tells me that
they can't do something becausethey don't have the time, that I
could not figure out where thetime could be found.
Yeah, okay, it always comesback to what you're talking
about.
They are doing tasks thatthere's no reason they should be
doing.
They should part with those,but they're control freaks.
Yep, or they feel like that'ssome measure of job security
(05:28):
that other people don't know howto do those things, which is
the worst?
Yep, or they like to do thosethings and they don't give those
up, but it's not the best useof their freaking time yeah,
absolutely, and a lot of timesmaybe they're not even ambitious
in what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know, I mean, like when I used to work with
you, like if you gave me anotherthing, I don't think I ever
said I don't have the time, no,you would never do that, and
I've actually warned you to giveme more stuff.
That was the intent of what Iwas trying to continue to learn,
and if you asked me to dosomething, I took that as an
appreciation and that you knew Icould handle that.
Yeah, and I felt good aboutthat, right, and then I'd go try
(06:09):
to conquer it and murder it and, by the way, I would knew my
position and if I had otherpeople on the team that were
better suited for it, I wouldfigure out what you wanted me to
do.
I'd perfect that, make sure youwere good with it, and then I
would package that thing up andthen I'd go assign it to
somebody else that can do it.
Yeah, you're really good atthat, and I gave them the
process to it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's true You're good at that, but you know, my old
partner, fred White, used to saysmart people are inherently
lazy.
I don't know that it's laziness, I just think it's intelligence
is what it is.
It's intelligence is what it is, it's good management.
If somebody else can do this,that I can part with this.
(06:50):
It frees up my time to do otherstuff.
And how am I going to make thatpossible?
Of course, as you said, ittakes a little planning, it
takes a little instruction, butthen it takes a willingness to
see if they can freaking do it.
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's interesting, you know.
I mean I think that the older Iget, the more I realize like
that.
You know, business is a lotlike marriage, in the sense of
where your partner grew up in acompletely different atmosphere,
learned all kinds of behaviors,make decisions.
They have all these fears thatare baked up inside every
decision that they make.
They're human beings.
(07:30):
Same thing in business when youhire folks and they get in, you
start realizing that a lot ofthem are scared to spend money
from the company, right, Eventhough I've told them I'm like,
hey, you have this budget, gospend it.
Or you have the ability tocontract.
Yeah, they think it's betternot to spend it, yeah, yeah, and
it's like, oh man, but then itdoesn't get done.
It doesn't get done and thenyou can't take on more
(07:52):
responsible things that I needyou to do to drive the business.
Yes, and so I mean I yourtime's being taken by trying to
coach people out of things thatmaybe they're going to be
resistant about doing that formonths I mean you're part of.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The problem is they came to work for you as an
employee.
Yeah, they're not thinking likean owner of a business.
They are more risk averse.
Naturally, they think they havea lot of preconceived notions.
I see it with my students, youknow.
When we talk about like in mynew venture class the idea of
using debt versus equity,they've been taught that debt's
(08:37):
all bad.
Okay, but wait a minute.
If I have debt, I can controlmy business.
I still own it.
That's right.
I may owe money to everybody,but I own the business as soon
as I part with the equity.
Now somebody else owns thebusiness.
Now we're going to go theirdirection, but it's so imbued in
(08:58):
them that debt is bad and it'sbecause of their upbringing.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It really is don't get a credit card.
Yeah, you know, if you get acredit card, you know spend a
hundred bucks on it, paid alloff the very next month, and
like that's not reallyleveraging the cash flow like
you probably should be able toright, you know, and I mean, and
then and then, oh, by the way,if you have debt one place,
you're stuck there forever untilyou paid off off.
No, you can refinance it.
(09:25):
You're always trying to figureout better rate, better terms.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Hey, and if I'm borrowing money at 8% but I'm
making 50% or 100% return on myinvested capital, why?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
wouldn't?
I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
All day Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, why wouldn't I?
Yeah, people are just so scaredabout this horror story of that
where you wreck up debt andthen you just owe it for the
rest of your life.
Everybody hates you, you can'tever borrow again, and that's
just not.
I mean, if you look in history,that's just not what a lot of
the entrepreneurs went through.
A lot of them went throughbankruptcies, but they still
(09:59):
continued on.
They still continued on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
The debt too.
There's different kinds.
I mean, if it's just debt forpersonal consumption, yeah,
that's one thing.
But if it's dead and you're,you're taking that debt on so
you can support your business,that's right and you can.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's another bad those hurdles that you can't get
over, right?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but anyway, you're right.
I mean the programming, thehistory, the how people are
raised, the culture, all thesethings affect their behavior
when they're working incompanies like ours.
Yep, yep, and it's difficult,you've got to.
Some of them are trainable,retrainable and some of them
(10:39):
aren't?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean, you know, I think that you know it's
interesting, even like with thecompany I have now, like there's
individuals, that I will investa little bit more because you
can see that they're wanting tobreak through themselves.
Yes, there's a light in there,there is, yeah, and then you
know a little flame there, alittle flame trying to blow up.
Yeah, and you can kind of reallysee that that ceiling that they
(11:02):
don't even know is there, thatthey put on themselves, but and
you can kind of really see thatthat ceiling that they don't
even know is there, that theyput on themselves.
But you know, sometimes theyhave to get to this point, to
where they have to introspect,they literally have to.
It's them conquering themselves.
And sometimes it has to kind ofget to a road where it's like
you know, I just had a caserecently that is like you know
they have to think about is thiswhat they want to do in life?
(11:24):
And then you let them go think,and then you come back and then
you know I'm like sitting there, going I don't know which, I'm
expecting it to go the way oflike look, this isn't for me,
but it actually turned out that,no, I'm going to take this on.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a beautiful thing, man.
You see them developing, yousee them maturing.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Oh man, it's gorgeous , it's wonderful, yeah, because
that's a forever.
That's actually a legacy thing,man Like.
If somebody can overcomethemselves, then you change your
generation, you change yourfamily history and your legacy
because you overcome something.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's one of the greatest satisfactions of being
a business owner 100%, it alwayscomes back to this is to seeing
your people succeed.
Okay, it's just so.
It's better than buying afreaking vacation house,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, it's better than money man 100% better than
money.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's so true.
Well, we got to pull somethingout of the hat.
Would you like to pull from thehat today, can I?
Yeah, please.
Thanks, mark.
We're pulling out of this YCATa topic and we're going to talk
about this briefly.
This one is just one word Okay,what's that?
(12:37):
Synergy, oh God, okay.
I think a lot of people thinkit's just a cliche, but it's
true.
You can't have synergy.
Sure, sure you know.
I think every acquisition froma strategic buyer, the intent is
to have synergy.
You know, now, a financialbuyer that just wants to keep
you out there on the side,there's not going to be any
(12:58):
synergy.
Right, right, but is itpossible?
Yeah, it is possible.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat work against it, though,
in a typical deal structure,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, yeah, on the acquisition side.
For the word synergy, I meanthat's kind of the big goal, but
it's actually I mean myexperience in acquisitions you
know and had a few and I knowthat you've had a lot more but
the integration and becomingsynergy with the company that
you acquired, or that wholething, is one of the hardest
(13:31):
things that I think thatcompanies can go through.
It is there's just not manypeople that I think that
companies can go through.
It is there's just not manypeople that I've seen do it very
well, even with their bestintentions.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well a lot of times the deal structure works against
it.
I mean, I had this discussionrecently with a client of mine
who got an offer and we'redealing with the M&A quote
advisor.
He's trying to get them to takethis deal, which was, in my
mind, a really crappy, bad dealthat they never should have
taken which they didn't,thankfully.
(14:03):
And there's not going to be anysynergy.
They say it's a strategic buyer, but then oh, we're going to
keep your name the same, we'regoing to keep you out on the
side over there, and a third ofthe deal is based on your earn
out, which is only what you do,what you get and what you do.
That's not synergy.
(14:26):
And there's no role identifiedfor the seller in the overall
company.
Their role is just keep runningtheir own business.
That's a financial buyer.
There's no synergy there.
Yeah, what's the point of beingpart of this network of
companies?
They're all held out there asindividual companies because of
(14:46):
the deal structure that you have.
And then, what's theintegration vehicle?
Yeah, do they have like regularmeetings?
Do all the clients get sharedbetween these companies?
Is there some mandatory processthat you look for expertise
through the entire network ofcompanies if you get a job.
No, there's none of that, right, right zero, and if you're the
(15:08):
seller if you have the rightminds.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The problem one problem with synergy is on those
things is you have one partythat really believes it and the
other one that really doesn't,but yet you're still using that
term as like.
That's why you should cometogether, right?
yes, if I'm a seller and I cansee that it's a just a for the
money part of the acquisition,if I can align that, okay, this
(15:31):
is what this is.
And then I don't have anexpectation.
I'm not going to spendemotional or time, energy into
trying to be centered, havingsynergy with this new buying
company and then just hitnothing but walls.
This can be absolutelyfrustrating, yes, and then
you're going to have a bad taste, your team's going to have a
bad taste.
I mean, everybody's going to bemiserable as hell.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It's like an outright misrepresentation of what the
situation is.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and I mean I think that maybe buyers should
come together, I mean, if theycan approach it as in that's
what exactly this is, then youdon't have all that extra
attention to something thatdoesn't even exist.
Yeah, good point.
I just want to buy you for yourassets.
I'm going to do my stuff.
Here's the deal.
If you want a little third andyou want to keep driving your
(16:18):
business, but just know thatyou're going to be over there on
your own.
If you want to take that,that's good.
It makes sense for mefinancially to pay you that.
But there's no integration here, bro.
I don't want you to be Behonest.
Honesty, Honesty, man, Like Idon't want your yeah be honest,
honesty, honesty man, it justcomes down to honesty, the whole
synergy thing is based on a lotof misrepresentation.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Whether it's intentional or it's a byproduct
of the culture and the dealstructure, it's a problem.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's agood point.
Anyway, I don't know Synergyinside the company.
I'm not sure that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, I think that inside the company, with the
team, to me that's culture.
Right, that is what the cultureis.
You're trying to have a culturethat is synergistic, but that's
not a one time thing and you'redone.
You can't just hope for that.
You have to work your butt off.
Oh, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I mean, it's just a constant initiative and again
you can't have your incentiveschemes all set up.
So you eat what you kill overhere and these guys eat what
they kill over there.
That's right.
Never is there any reason foryou to cooperate.
Ok, that's another commonproblem.
I see it's like the wholeincentive structure is geared
around how the particularrevenue-generating unit performs
(17:43):
as opposed to how the overall.
I never liked any of that in mycompanies.
I want the overall company tobe the only thing anybody cares
about.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But that's your apex of having synergy.
Yeah, if everybody's drivingthe same big number, then you
got to find your way to havegoals that are driving to that,
so that everybody knows that.
Okay, what I'm doing isimpacting that.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yes, some people who run companies are afraid to do
that because they say, well then, I'm not holding people
accountable, okay, there's noaccountability then.
Because I'm not holding peopleaccountable, okay, there's no
accountability then, because I'mjust part of this bigger thing
and, like you said, there's gotto be a way to measure and
report on the productivity.
But the thing about that I'vefound is, you know, businesses
(18:30):
run in cycles.
You know this.
Like you could have a companythat serves five different types
of clients.
These clients over here mightbe hot for three years, okay,
then that market cools down,yeah.
So meanwhile, while they're hot, these other ones aren't doing
that good, that's right as well,okay, but it you know, three
years later the situationchanges.
(18:51):
Yep, there's a reason why weserve these different groups of
clients or markets.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Plus they're, you know, yeah, no, absolutely Like.
I think that's been one of myexperiences.
We try to.
It's so easy for companies tokind of forget their OG clients,
which to me, in my mind, is themost important clients, right,
because you have thisrelationship and you try to, you
should be able to continue toaccommodate them and keep doing
(19:19):
what you're doing and getfocused on that.
You can't keep going for theshiny objects all the time.
There's a core, oh.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
God, I tell you that's such a problem in
professional service firms.
Yeah, it is.
They take their originalclients for granted and they put
their resources on the newclients, and then they put their
resources on the new clientsand then they use their, their
good old clients as a trainingground for any fights.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
it's always been one of my pet peeves oh it's like
dude, it happens on my side allthe time.
If I'm a buyer, yeah, like, I'mjust like I'm, you know, when I
talk to them and I find outthat they're going for bigger
clients, I'm like I know what'swhat they're, what they're doing
.
They're just I I'mdeprioritizing you being used.
I want your better team.
My money, my cash is just asgood as everybody else's.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, I don't want the second string here.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That's right, that's right, that's true, it's a hard
thing to fight.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
All right.
Well, I don't know that we'regoing to get any further on
synergy, so our topic for theday is the biggest mistakes
company founders make.
Okay, what do you think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Why is that important for people out there in the
listener land?
I mean, first of all, there's alot of them.
Yeah, there are, and I thinkthat if you go down that road,
like a lot of times when you'remaking decisions and you'll,
what I've found is that some ofthe smaller what I thought were
(20:45):
small decisions become justabsolutely enormous big problems
, and they don't ever and younever have more time than you do
right now.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
A great illustration of that is hiring the wrong
people from the start.
Who do typically new companieshire Relatives, people they know
, people who work cheap, friendsand family.
Yep, friends and family, mm-hmm.
That's where the you know, andthose are the problems that
(21:16):
later on manifest themselves.
Yep, as much bigger issues.
Yep, easy to make.
Now I need something done.
I don't have a lot of money,someone says available to help
me out, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Right, yeah, I think there's difference.
You know and you got to.
It depends on the role withinthe company.
So like, for example, withpodcast videos, what I did is I
didn't hire highly experiencedleaders in the beginning, Like
you know, like I didn't likehigh earners or experienced
people.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Sure, you can't afford to.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I mean you're starting out yeah, can't afford
to.
And then also what I've learnedthat can be a massive problem.
Can't afford to, and then alsowhat I've learned that can be a
massive problem.
Because what I need to do inthe beginning is I have to
articulate a specific vision.
I don't want my company beinganother agency or another one of
these things.
I'm trying to innovatesomething, I'm trying to create
something new and based on myexperience and my investment
(22:13):
this is my investment and basedon my experience and my
investment, you know this is myinvestment and so I want to.
I need to articulate the visionwith tangible results and real
work right, and I need folks toget in there and just follow
direction and just go into theuncharted territories for them.
But I know where it's going.
Then I bring on leaders oncethe work has.
(22:35):
We've figured out the workright, you know, and so we're
kind of in that stage right now.
But I did actually last yearhire a leader for more of the
business practices theoperational, the project
management, the you know thefinancial parts, you know the,
the kind of the ones that are,like you know, does actually
need to require.
It doesn't require anything,you know super specific to our
(22:57):
industry.
I mean there is an attitude toit.
But I need somebody that couldthink and lead in that specific
realm.
And so I think it's a lot abouttiming and you know, and even
then, like I don't know if I dideverything right, but you know,
I feel like that it's the rightway to go.
You know, and even then, like Idon't know if I did everything
right, but you know, I feel likethat it's the right way to go,
you know.
(23:17):
And then leaders can come inand they can polish really well,
yeah, and they can startleading people.
You know, Refining, Refining.
They're helping guide folks,they're looking at better goals,
they're paying more attentionto the team that I, you know,
maybe couldn't have given thatamount of attention to.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, and maybe your people you hired had to be
pulled in a lot of differentdirections too, initially
because you can't just hireexperts for everything Right?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
No, and then they're doing a lot of things and as you
add another person on,everybody becomes a little bit
more focused in the lane.
You know, at first it's reallybroad.
Right, exactly, and that's ahard thing too.
Yes, right, exactly, and that'sa hard thing too.
If you have one person doing alot of stuff and you hire
somebody else, it's like thisperson that was doing a lot has
(24:04):
a big struggle to let go and letthis other person take on work,
even though that's what they'vewanted the whole time.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But it's a really hard transition Sometimes they
resent them too, they're likewell, yeah, of course, they can
do a good job with that.
That's the only thing they'vegot to do.
Yeah, or they feel threatened,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You know?
I mean that's going back to thefear stuff, but I think that,
like when we're talking about,the biggest mistakes is, you
know, when you hire somebody,like it's not just hiring and
letting them walk in the doorand get to work, right?
I mean there there's somepreemptive things, discussions
you've got to have with theexisting team.
They have to really understandand you have to be very
(24:43):
attentive to the fears thatmight be being placed in people,
and so I try to do a try to doa better job of that preemptive
discussions, making sure thatsuch a no this is not a
threatening.
I'm bringing in this.
Yeah, this is going to helpthis.
This is help.
This is going to help you grow.
This is going to helpeverything out and don't be
(25:03):
worried about your job well, I,I've got another situation.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So it's a company I'm intimately involved with as a,
as an owner and, um, you know,when you talk about mistakes
that founders make, I mean, thewhole culture of the place was
based on.
This is a lifestyle business.
So we hire people who want tocome here and have a certain
lifestyle.
(25:28):
We don't want to work over fourdays a week.
We want to be able to go oncamping trips with our buddies.
We want to be able to, everyFriday night, um, talk about
what independent brew pub we'regoing to and what band is
playing.
Um, if you're following me, okay, we're not necessarily here to
(25:51):
build this company.
Yeah, to enrich you as theowner, which is not the only
purpose of it whatsoever.
So to try to get them to gofrom that's the culture to where
we don't want to work that hard.
We work here because we don'twant to work hard.
We don't care that we don'tmake a lot of money.
(26:12):
Yeah, we'd like to make moremoney.
We'll complain about it everyso often, but when it really
comes down to the nut cutting,we're not going to make any
sacrifice to make more money,okay, or make this thing better.
So that culture that is createdfrom the get-go, because it
starts out as a hobby.
(26:32):
Yeah, man, it's a real problemfor some businesses.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, okay, that seems like a really great idea,
you know Peaceful, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, it's not sustainable.
So you're right, You've got togo back to the vision and you've
got to explain to people whatthe real vision is, how that's
going to benefit them and changetheir lives, what we're going
to have to go through in orderto make that happen.
And some of those people willnot be there.
Some of them, a light's goingto go off and say, oh my gosh,
(27:05):
yeah, we could do that.
I could have a different lifethan I have right now.
Maybe it won't be so hand tomouth.
Maybe I can actually pay for mykid to go to college or, you
know, have steak instead of 80%lean burger every time.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's like, maybe I couldactually.
(27:27):
So some people will wake up tothat and the vision's got to be
one that they see themselvesparticipating in and benefiting
from.
But I do think you know we'retalking about mistakes companies
make.
We create an expectation on thefront end because of a lack of
(27:47):
resources or the scale thatwe're operating at at that time.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I think it's, you know, on the lifestyle thing, I
think that's a really dangerousscenario and I've seen a lot of
people do that, especially thathave worked a long time in
corporate.
Yeah, you know, I mean it'sfirst of all.
It's, you know, I mean a lot,of, a lot of care work where
they were at and they see a lotof things that are happening and
they attach that the all thenegatives that they experience
(28:16):
were because the company is justfocused on money.
Yeah, you know.
And so then they want to starta business that doesn't focus on
money, yes, or focus on revenue, you know, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I've probably been guilty of that myself in the
past.
Oh yeah, Even comparing myoriginal business to my
successor business.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Right, yeah, and so you want to create this
environment.
I don't need the money.
I don't need money.
We're not after money.
We're after friendships andwhatever else it might be.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Building public visions of our art or whatever,
right?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, it's such a dangerous thing because if you
start out a business with thatintent, you're going to
basically you know businessesare nothing but a group of
people, right, and then you'regoing to be hiring people based
on that reality.
But those people, like I, wouldhave loved that type of
business when I was, you know,maybe 19 years old and had a
great time.
But by the time I'm 27 and Ihave a kid and I'm married, shit
(29:15):
changes real quick.
No kidding.
Exactly, and so you're going tohave these people that are going
to grow out of this perspective.
Yes, and they need more.
They want more.
And you're going to lose peoplebecause of that.
Good people, good people yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And they can't find a pathway.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
So I think that there's not a way to start a
business that doesn't have anobjective to build revenue, grow
, have an exit or provide a lotof financial resources.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, and maintain good people.
I agree with that.
I've always said growth has tobe.
When business owners tell me,well, we don't really want to
grow, I'm like, okay, you're notgoing to have anybody good,
that's going to work hereeventually.
Yeah, okay, you're not going tohave anybody good that's going
to work here eventually.
Yeah, okay, this, it's notgoing to be self-sustaining.
Utopias don't work, do they?
No, they don't.
So what other mistakes say doyou think founders make?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
you know, I think I mean one of the biggest one is
not, is not investing in insales?
Yeah, marketing, oh god, yes,you know what I'm saying.
Oh my god, it's the no marketing, it's, it's so common and you
have in in the bucket ofmarketing is advertising, you
know, and you have to invest inadvertising.
Yep, in your marketing plan.
(30:26):
You know?
Yeah, you know honestly, at myprevious company, we had a like
basically a zero dollaradvertising budget, however,
company.
We had basically a $0advertising budget.
However, we had a different wayto make sure we were in the
public.
We did a lot of in-kindmarketing support that were
already exposed to certainaudiences that we wanted to be
(30:49):
in front of.
So, even though we spent littleto no cash, time was invested
significantly, and that's money.
Very much so, yeah, and so Ithink that if you don't have
this relentless pursuit of beingout in front, showing up, being
in front of your target, andthat's not a significant part of
(31:10):
your plan, then you're foolingyourself.
Because I see, a lot of times Ihear like product's the most
important.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I agree, your product is, but if you don't have a way
to promote that, then you'reyeah, just building a better
mousetrap doesn't meaneverybody's going to be the path
to your door, right?
I mean you see this over andover and over again.
I mean it blows my mind.
I had a tenant in one of myretail centers who had a
restaurant.
He had really good food.
(31:38):
Okay, this guy had hisrestaurant established in
another location.
He moves to our location.
He doesn't even put a sign upin his old location.
I've moved to a new location.
He does nothing, zero socialmedia posts.
Okay, all I could think tomyself was, if I had that
restaurant, I swear to you I'dput five to 10 posts a day on
(32:04):
Instagram and Facebook of myfood and my customers enjoying
my food.
That's right, okay.
And if I just did that everyfreaking day not the days I felt
like it, and then not doing itfor a week or a month, every
single day, boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom, boom that guy
(32:24):
would have been successful.
It's like if you said that tohim, he'd be like oh, I don't
have time for that.
How long does that take?
Not long.
I can go to the bathroom andput my damn post out.
I could sit there at night andmake five of them in 20 minutes,
10 minutes probably, andschedule them to go out.
Yeah, there's so much you cando.
(32:44):
Now.
It's like it's not that hard,but they don't do it, you know.
But I've got really good foodokay.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, but one of the easiest things I can see that
you know, especially a businessthat's a local business, has a
local audience, like arestaurant, one of the biggest
misses that I see these folksdoing that is the easiest thing
to do and probably one of themost important is focus on your
Google business business, yeah,of course you know what I'm
saying.
Yeah, your search, your, yoursearch criteria, yeah, just for
(33:15):
where your location is on themap, and you go in and you build
out that profile, you make sureyour hours are accurate, you
pay attention, oh god there's somany of you.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I mean just drive for reviews on that that is so
critical there's one businessthat I again it's interesting
because it's the same owners ofthe one I told you that failed.
If you go and you do a Googlesearch and you get their phone
number and you dial that number,you know, by clicking on it it
doesn't work.
That's terrible.
It hasn't worked in two years.
(33:46):
You can't.
And they're like no, no, thatdoesn't work.
Like, fix it, for god's sake.
10 minutes.
Yeah, I'm trying to make afreaking order from you and I
get a random recording.
Yeah, because your number'swrong here.
Yeah, I mean, it's terrible,it's so easy, but hey, I'm too
busy for that.
(34:06):
Yeah, don't bother me with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got tobe relentless in the sales.
I saw another business herelocally that was started by one
of my former students and herboyfriend's significant other,
mm-hmm, and I think they'rehaving some success with it,
okay.
But then I saw their signyesterday on North College,
(34:27):
mm-hmm, and they've got thissign out by the street.
It's elevated and everything.
You can't even read the sign,eric.
It's white writing on a lightpink background.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
There's some fundamentals there.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
What?
Wouldn't you notice that?
What I want to go slap him.
Is that obvious?
Wait, what the hell is wrongwith you?
You can't see that?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, hey, one thing I want to go back to the hiring
the right people.
Okay, well, we're stepping backnow.
Yeah, well, because how does abusiness owner identify those
people?
Because the interview process.
I'm not a really big believerin a totally structured
interview process, especiallyfor a small business.
(35:15):
Yeah, I hear you.
How do you find the rightpeople?
To me that's like this mysteryin a way.
I guess that over time I founda way to clue in, but I think it
comes back to you have to beable to have something
instinctual in you.
Yeah, so when I'm talking topeople, like I'm really
listening to what they'retalking about, about their
(35:39):
personal life and what'simportant to them, you know, and
I'm trying to gauge howimportant is it that you come
into this business and that youare driving for the growth of
the company.
Yeah, and if I hear things thatare in my mind, counter to that
, counter to that, yeah, it's ared flag, it is a massive red
(36:02):
flag.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think you know I'm a big believer in a consistent
process for hiring, but thatdoesn't mean I believe in a
consistent process forinterviewing.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Okay, tell us more.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, there's certain steps you need to follow, okay,
like, first thing is is thereanybody inside the company?
You know, I mean, what do Iwant somebody to do?
Is there anybody inside thecompany?
Is there somebody inside thecompany who wants that job?
Yeah, we ought to at least givethem a chance.
(36:34):
I mean, there's certain things.
Before I run an ad, I shouldlook at my database of prior
applicants and see if that gotanybody in there, okay.
So that's what I mean.
When I say a consistent product,I mean we're going to write an
offer.
The offer letter is going tohave certain things in it.
We're going to give peoplecertain materials on the company
.
We're going to have a certainyou know, we're not going to
(36:54):
give them two weeks to make adecision.
We give them 48 hours.
There's certain things that wealways do, okay.
And we're going to have acertain onboarding process Okay.
All that, I think, needs to beconsistent.
But when you sit down in a roomwith somebody and meet them,
that's where you know.
Do I ask these 10 questions?
No, not necessarily.
It's what you said.
It's like I want to get to knowthe person.
(37:14):
I want them to let their guarddown.
I don't want them to bedefensive.
That's the only way I'm reallygoing to figure out what they're
all about, and so it takes amuch less structured approach, I
think I agree, I agree, I'm abig hey, let's have coffee and
let's chat, let's meet, let'sdiscuss.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
What's going on?
Burby, ben, what have you done?
And then, you know, followingup with that, like what's the
response time?
Yeah, noticing, if they've.
You know, what have they beendoing for the last couple weeks
since we started talking?
You know, my biggest one isit's like hey, I can't.
You know, when do you want tocome back in and talk again and
keep talking about the job?
Well, it's Monday, right, and Imet with you on Friday last
(37:56):
week.
Oh, I'm out for the next twoweeks on vacation, right, you
know?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Like no, no, no, no, no.
We used to always look at theircars in the parking lot to see
what their car looked like.
If they were slobs they didn'thave to have a nice car or
anything.
But if it's filthy and you lookat the interior and it's all
just got fast food trash in itor whatever it's like uh-uh.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
They're not taking care of themselves.
It's going to be hard to takecare of a company Exactly and
take care of a bigger family, nopride.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I'll never forget one guy that this company.
The first day I went there andI was in charge of HR for a
particular section of thecompany it's called Division One
, it was Memphis and Little Rockand the boss, the CEO, he was
interviewing a guy.
The first day I show up for CFOhe comes out of his office.
(38:46):
He says I want you to meet ournew CFO and I meet this guy.
Okay, and I immediately got anegative feeling about him.
I won't get into my prejudiceson why, but I did so I get.
I said let me see the resume onthat guy, don, so I get it.
He's got an MBA from Memphisstate, 77 to 78.
(39:07):
Undergraduate in finance 77 thisis like 1983, okay, so I well,
first off is before, while hewas in there interviewing the
guy, went out in the parking lotto see what he was driving.
Because we had visitor spotsyeah, 72 cadillac deville, no
fender skirts.
They were gone and no hubcapson it and I'm like, wait a
(39:31):
minute.
And this guy's got an NBA.
Doesn't look like an NBA car tome.
I was driving like a 79 or 80Saab 900 turbo at the time.
That was a yuppie car that youdrive if you were an NBA you
know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Not a yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Not a 72 Caddy, yeah, with no fender skirts, and
you've got to fix that stuff,and no hubcaps.
You've got to fix that and Ithought this doesn't add up.
Anyway, to make a long storyshort, I start checking the
background out on this guy and Ifind out he does not have
(40:10):
either an MBA or a degree infinance.
It was all a lie.
I made the CEO Rene, on ouroffer.
Oh wow, I said, don, you hiredthis guy.
Now you got to get us out of it.
Lying, okay, lying, deception,first day on the job.
But I'm just.
The only reason I point thatout is, like you say, the signs.
Yeah, don't, you can't ignorethe signs.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Well, because bringing on people, especially
in service-based business I meanobviously in any business the
most expensive investment youcan make, it's one of those
things where it should be along-term investment.
I mean you don't hire peoplefor a short time period, unless
that's exactly why you hiredthem, but I mean, once that
(40:49):
problem starts, that's one ofthe hardest things to get out of
.
Oh, I'm telling you, it takesso much energy out of everything
.
You keep giving people chances,you keep trying to work on it,
but if the whole time the sourceof that person, that individual
, is not in line to acclimate,then that problem will never be
rectified.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I saw this video.
I know you like Gary Vee.
Yeah, yeah, okay, he's fine.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I mean, I don't love him, but he's good with me.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
He makes some good points he does.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I mean, yeah, he seems like an asshole.
On a certain level he'segocentric or whatever he was
talking about.
One of the greatestsatisfactions of business is
firing what you call D-headsyeah, did you see that video?
And because they're so negativeand there's such a problem that
when you get rid of them youfeel so good he goes, and
(41:40):
sometimes they're greatperformers, but they're not
people who get it.
He goes.
Good performers are either goodperformers for one of two
reasons Because they are verysecure or because they're very
insecure, because most are veryinsecure.
Therefore they alienate peoplearound them.
Therefore they're a problem.
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Anyway, I just thought that was kind of funny
the problem is that once youhire somebody like that, it
takes a while to start seeingthose things come out.
A lot of times they're lying,they're fibbing, they're smoking
mirrors, yeah and then we delayon making decisions we don't
want to.
You know we're back to the restof the nation, don't want to
hurt the rest of the team, don'twant to start all over again.
Oh yeah, that's hard, but youhave to do it.
(42:24):
You have to do it, you have todo it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
A couple other things I think people do, aside from
hiring the wrong people anddoing nothing in marketing, is
they don't do a good jobtracking their numbers.
They don't really follow anykind of financial plan.
Yeah, I'm going to be paranoid.
I'm going to be looking at mybank accounts every single day.
(42:48):
I'm going to be on QuickBooks10 times a day.
Okay, to see what the hell isgoing on.
I'm going to have, I'm going to, I'm going to have a cashflow
forecast.
I'm looking ahead to seewhether I'm going to run out of
money or not.
I am absolutely driven byparanoia about the money, yeah,
and I think a lot of people arejust too loose and they almost
(43:09):
don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I'm guilty man.
I admire that in you.
I want to know how to do thatmore Well.
You're too well off.
No, no, no, that's your problem.
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
I mean honestly, like even whenever I was negative,
everything I ever had is likegot no capital at all.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Okay, everything I ever had has got no capital at
all.
I've always been loose on thatas far as paying attention to it
.
I don't know why I need tofigure that out.
It's not exciting, but it'salso like it.
You know, it kind of almost iswhat it is, and so my mind's
(43:51):
just 100% on new business.
Yeah, like if I can bring morein at the top, you'll solve
every problem.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I understand that logic too.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I am very revenue driven.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's why I always hate it.
When I hire these people whotell me we've got to get out of
that, we don't make money onthat, we need to pull the plug
on that we don't make.
I'm like, no, you don't, I'mnot going to give up any of my
revenue here.
Guys, you want me to get out ofthis because you don't make
money on it.
That pays for overhead still.
(44:21):
Yeah, pull that out.
Worse, you know how much moredo we have to make everywhere
else to make up for the quoteloss of selling this that we
don't make money on anyway?
It's always been a pet peeve ofmine, so you watch that, you
watch those numbers like a hawk.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Oh my god, do I ever.
Yeah, yeah, always.
And my wife is the same way.
Like I mean, anything that hitsthe account she's investigated,
yeah, 100.
She'll text me hey, did you dothis?
I'm like, yeah, I mean, thatwas me, you know, but I mean
like it's, there's never asecond.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I do think that's a mistake that a lot of small
business owners make.
Okay, that, coupled not knowingtheir numbers, which then
impacts where they spend moneyand the things they spend money
on, and then that, coupled withtaking too much out too early,
okay, it's like, well, you know,as you said, I had my corporate
(45:14):
job.
I made 200k a year or whatever.
I gotta live on 200k.
No, no, you need to learn tolive on like nothing for a while
, or 50k or whatever.
Yeah, everything goes back inthe business.
Everything caught, everything,cotton, everything.
When I started my company, I hada new 4Runner and I had a new
Alfa Romeo.
I say new within a year?
Okay, 4runner and Alfa RomeoGone.
(45:38):
Okay, I bought myself a $300Dodge Colt Nice, not a bad club.
No, $200.
I paid $200.
I sold it two years later for$300.
Yeah, I paid $200.
I sold it two years later for$300.
I made $100.
Boom, and I'm a car guy.
I hated that, sure, but youdidn't have to sacrifice Exactly
.
I wanted every dollar I coulddirect into the business and not
(46:02):
personal consumption, and Iknow you lived like that.
Oh, totally, I still do in alot of ways.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, you were lived like that.
Oh, totally, I still do.
In a lot of ways, yeah, youwere always like that and you
have to learn to navigate thatpersonally, and then you also
have to navigate your family.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Hey, I remember when you had a 4,000-square-foot
two-story house in a veryaffluent area and you moved out
of that into your rental.
Oh yeah, it was probably 1,500square feet in a predominantly
student-oriented area, right,yeah.
And you didn't really doanything to the place either
(46:42):
when you moved in.
No, because you're like youknow what I'm going to live?
Freaking cheap, super cheap,dirt cheap, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
And that was you know what I'm going to live?
Freaking cheap, Super cheap,Dirt cheap.
Yeah, and that was you know.
Some of those things arehumbling.
Of course they are, you know.
Especially, I remember wheneverI did that and then I had like
some folks over from the teamand there were people like, oh
my gosh, our CEO lives in thisdump, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It wasn't a dump, but I mean it, but wasn't what you
lived in.
No, before.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
No, but it was.
But it was definitely a shocker, but, in all honesty, they were
making more than I was at thetime.
Yeah, and I've lived like Imean, I've lived off of zero
payroll for nine months at atime, right back in the day,
when I didn't have anything insavings and I was putting things
on but you didn't have a twinum bridal staircase.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
no, like that, that house you had before that.
But you didn't have a twinbridal staircase.
No, like that house you hadbefore that.
No, I didn't.
I seem to remember the stairscame down on both sides and
dumped, didn't they?
Yeah, am I wrong about that?
They were curved?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, they were.
It would come down.
On one side it had theselandings, that would come down.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, but it was definitely, it was impressive,
it was grand.
It was grand Like a two-storyentry.
Yeah, yeah, it was grand, butyou don't need all that bullshit
.
No Right, you got to live cheap.
You got to fuel this thing thatmakes you money.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Everything goes back in, everything goes back towards
sales and marketing.
I did.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
It's reinvesting.
I did the same thing I Secondcheapest house in Natick,
massachusetts, when I bought myhouse in 1988 there, yeah, okay,
and believe me, it was so ugly,lime green, built 1870.
The entire yard had a chainlink fence around it and was
paved with asphalt.
It looked like an industrialcompound.
(48:22):
Okay, now the house I hadbefore that in Texas, wasas, was
completely redone.
It wasn't fancy but it wastotally redone.
I was saying before that inmemphis was a five bedroom,
three and a half bath ingermantown in a community that
had a community pool andclubhouse, and I bought it from
a doctor.
Yeah, okay, I mean, I'm justsaying it's, it's sacrifice and
(48:47):
I lived there for eight years inthat house.
Even when I was making a lot ofmoney, I was still living in
that house.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Because you were continuously reinvesting in the
business.
And I think that that's a youknow, there are a lot of folks
that want to be an entrepreneur,that have good jobs, you know,
making good money.
The risk is is that do yourecognize what you're going to
have to sacrifice?
Because you are going to?
If there's one thing that'strue in owning a business, it's
(49:13):
starting a business.
It's absolute sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Sacrifice financially and time Totally.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Everything Health, Whatever it takes man.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, I mean, my health isn't enhanced by a half
a pack of Lucky's and four cupsof coffee and a Burger King
Whopper at lunch, no man.
But I can get in five minutesand drive while I'm eating it.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
No, I shouldn't admit that I do those things I still
do.
I was thinking the other dayI'm damn near 67 years old and
the average lifespan for a malein this country is 73.
Oh wow, so that gives me likesix more years to live.
My 13 year old is only going tobe a freshman in college when I
keel over, but that's notwhat's going to happen, okay you
got these genetics that you canlast till hundreds I need to
(50:02):
change, um, but yeah, so I thinkwe could go on.
There's a lot of mistakesfounders make, but unfortunately
we're running out of time.
Okay, it's been good.
Yeah, this is a good discussiontoday.
It's a serious discussion.
We want to help people.
Yeah, we want them to learnfrom us.
(50:24):
You don't have to learneverything on your own, that's
true.
Okay, that's true.
Learn from other true.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Learn from other people, learn from their
mistakes, learn from theirexperience and don't think that
these and look for the commonthreads that everybody says yeah
, and there's a lot of the timeswhere the things we talk about
are the common threads thatevery entrepreneur and business
owner would tell you, becauseit's.
It doesn't matter how smart youare or how good you think your
plan is, or your forecast andyour pro formas and all these
(50:51):
business planning tools that youhave.
You can have the best in theworld, but as soon as you hit
the streets with that puppy, youwill absolutely sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's essential.
It really is.
I'm so lucky that over the last20 years being a professor
working here at the U of A inthe Walton College, and all the
guest speakers that I bring inpeople like yourself and many
others who have started and ownbusinesses or work in
family-owned businesses orbought businesses or sold
(51:23):
businesses the experience that Ihave been able to capture from
all those people, coupled withall the projects my students do,
it's been a tremendouseducation for me.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, and now you're passing this on.
On this show I'm trying to.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
No, it's good though I'm trying to, I hope people
take what we're saying seriouslyand realize that they can
implement a lot of what we'retalking about here To make their
lives better, make theirbusiness more successful,
improve the lives of theiremployees and their clients and
(52:03):
customers.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
And then create change in the marketplace to
keep us going.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
And create a lot of value they can cash in on
someday that's right and developother options for themselves in
the way of time and businessopportunities and ways to
exercise creative expression.
Yep, okay, that comes fromhaving an exit.
Yep, oh, absolutely, at somepoint where you get paid back
for all that, yeah, and comesfrom having an exit Yep, oh,
(52:28):
absolutely, at some point whereyou get paid back for all that,
yeah, and it's risky as hell.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, it's risky, but it's Not being negative, but
it's the reality to it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, but it's I always say.
But you know, I still don'tthink business ownership is as
risky as working in corporate.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
America?
Speaker 1 (52:45):
No, I agree, at least you can see things coming, you
can navigate it.
Yeah, your head's on thechopping block any minute.
It's like you're self-employedand you have one client or
customer.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yep, and the idea that you're not vulnerable to
that and you're not taking arisk is not truth.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
It's not.
I mean, there used to be acartoon of a fish in a blender.
You know sitting there like,and you know at any moment the
corporate boss can push thebutton.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
Don't give yourself anyillusions of your security.
Somebody else?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
outside of your control.
Can push that blender button,Yep, but you can keep swimming
around in that blender.
Yeah, we can feel like hey.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
I got a lot of room in here.
Life's great, yeah, so anyway,well, listen, it's been great.
Again, if you would like toreach out to us, get on our
website,wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom.
We do value your feedback andyour questions.
(53:48):
If you'd like to sponsor ourshow again, reach out to us on
our website or to either Eric ormyself as individuals and we
can talk about how we can helpyou grow your business.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yep, if you have a business and you want to come on
the show we want to hear fromyou.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
If you're a parasite, he's got a one-man company.
No, we're not interested.
I'm sorry.
I mean, I get these thingscontinuously.
Okay, it's like no, we don'twant that business.
We want you where you'veactually that's your number one
marketing channel.
Yeah, we want to where you'veactually got your number one
marketing channel.
Yeah, we want to see you'veactually done something, not
(54:30):
like, hey, I've got a thing I'mgoing to sell, like a million
other people sell, but I'm a oneman band and I haven't really
done it yet.
No, no, we're not looking forthat.
Yeah, so we do have some goodguests coming up here soon.
Next week we're going to betalking with Gary Head, a
signature bank.
He's a real character.
(54:51):
For those of you who don't knowGary, he's the bank founder.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Everybody knows Gary.
Yeah, everybody's.
The guy is hysterical, but he'salso really smart.
Yeah, no, he is, and he wasactually the banker for Merle
Haggard.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Oh, are you serious yeah?
Speaker 1 (55:09):
That's cool.
He was a crazy guy.
But yeah, Merle Haggard likedGary and did his banking with
him.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh, that's awesome.
He didn't live around here.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
We need to talk about Merle Haggard next week then.
But Gary knew all of them.
He knew Don Tyson, he knew JBHunt, he knew Sam Walton, all JB
Hunt, the new Sam Walton, allof them Cool.
So that's going to be fun, goodshow.
So, anyway, until next week.
This has been another episodeof Big Talk About.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Small Business.
We switched that up.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
That was pretty tight , See you everybody.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(56:14):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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