Ep. 69 - Banking for Success: Why Relationships Matter

Gary Head, the visionary founder and chairman of Signature Bank of Arkansas, shares his remarkable journey with us as we celebrate the bank's 20th anniversary. From forging friendships with iconic figures like Sam Walton, JB Hunt, and Don Tyson, to building an 'alternative bank' that prioritizes genuine connections, Gary opens up about the lessons learned along the way. Discover how his father's wisdom about treating everyone with respect shaped his philosophy and played a pivotal role in supporting countless entrepreneurs through their most critical moments.

Our discussion takes a closer look at the challenges and triumphs of fostering a robust company culture in the banking industry. Learn how Signature Bank navigates regulatory scrutiny and the power of mentorship in maintaining a consistent set of core values across its locations. Gary's insights into the importance of resilience and adaptability reveal the traits that define successful entrepreneurs, and how these attributes have been vital to the bank's distinctiveness and quality service.

Diversity and inclusivity take center stage as we highlight inspiring stories of leadership and empowerment within the banking sector. We delve into the emotional aspects of entrepreneurship, underscoring the need for passion, vision, and diverse perspectives. Gary introduces us to Banco Sí, a Hispanic-run banking initiative, and shares strategies for small business acquisition that provide invaluable opportunities for growth. Through humor and heartfelt anecdotes, this episode offers a profound exploration of entrepreneurship, banking partnerships, and the enduring power of love and understanding in both personal and professional relationships.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey everybody, we are back again in the studio today
with a very special guest, whomI will introduce momentarily.
I'm also here with my partner,eric Howerton, and this is
another episode of Big TalkAbout Small.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Business.
What do you think about thatintro, Gary?
I love that.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
I know all about small business.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's right you do.
We've got Gary Head here withus today, who is the chairman
and founder of Signature Bank ofArkansas.
He's a good friend of mine.
I've known Gary now basicallysince he started the bank 20
years.
This should be about our20-year anniversary.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Signature's at 20 years.
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Congrats.
Thank you, it's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
And Gary is well-known here in northwest
Arkansas.
For those of you who areoutside of our area, he's like a
rock star.
No, he is, he's a movie star.
We don't say rock star, forgetthat he had a face for radio.
No, he's a movie star of ourarea.
Everybody knows Gary Celebritystars.

(01:20):
He knows everybody else.
Yes, it's been a big part ofhis success.
I know Gary's big onrelationships and I was thinking
about that as I was driving uphere this morning about how I
mean Gary, you're going to get achance to tell us some of your
story.
But I mean you worked with SamWalton, jb Hunt, don Tyson.

(01:44):
You had the greatest countrysinger alive, merle Haggard.
Jb Hunt, don Tyson.
You had the greatest countrysinger alive, merle Haggard as
your client.
That's legit.
You got Eric as your client.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Big talk about small business hosts Exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Greatest damn show on the internet.
What do you think I mean?
Honestly?
What is the secret to howyou've been able to make so many
friendships?
I know that you got some goodadvice from our former athletic
director years and years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well, I think probably it starts a little
earlier than that.
I have to give a little creditthere to my father.
My father was a real mailcarrier and he drove around a
lot.
He didn't have anybody to talkto.
So when he found someone totalk to, he got you.
And I remember when I was young, I got a little full of myself,
as most of us always do, and Ithought I was pretty special.

(02:38):
And he said let me just tellyou something the worst drunk in
this town can drink more thanyou.
That does not make you betterthan him.
You will treat everyone as withrespect as far as their ability
.
You don't have to condone it,you don't have to, but you, yes,
don't get to judge what peopleare, and so I've spent my entire
life trying to make sure I liveup to that.

(02:59):
Fact is, everyone's gotsomething they're good at, and
some people have demons, youknow, and so you try to drive
around the people with demonsand you deal with all the other
people because, hey, you know,everybody has something to
contribute.
You know some at higher levelsthan others, but it doesn't make
the person that walks intomorrow trying to start their
business less important than aguy that's been very successful

(03:23):
like you two guys.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, well, thanks well, I remember a uh, you know
I was when I knew you're comingon the show.
I can remember specifically inmy mind when I was starting up
one of my businesses back in theday.
I mean I had nothing, I wasjust grinding right and I,
working with signature bank, andgary would come out and shake
my hand as I was in the dropthrough trying to make a last

(03:45):
minute deposit.
You know, come see us checks.
You wrote not exactly, but Imean but, but.
But that meant a lot to me.
Yeah, right at that time isreally encouraging.
I mean it still does, obviously, if you still shake my hand,
yeah, and then drop through.
But I mean, but I mean likeit's that that meant a world to
me, you know, because I didn't.
I felt like that, hey man, Imean like it's that that meant a
world to me, you know, becauseI didn't.
I felt like that, hey man, Imean I noticed and appreciated.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, His office was right off the lobby, Yep, and
you would see people when youcome in and then he would jump
out and go talk to him, and youknow it's.
I always like to tell the story, you know the one about where I
was trying to get someinformation on a building for
part of a business plan that Iwas doing and I had Bank of
America, and let's just say itwas a nightmare.

(04:31):
There was no way I could getany info out of them.
I couldn't get any sense of howmuch down payment I need for a
commercial building withoutfilling out an application for
credit Okay which is absurd.
I had seven figures in the bankof Bank of America at that time
, without filling out anapplication for credit Okay,
which is absurd.
I had seven figures in the bankBank of America at that time,
and the building was $170,000.

(04:53):
Just trying to do this businessplan and two of my friends said
call Gary Head.
I called the guy.
He's at Tyson's Condo in Cabo.
He answers the phone and talksto me for 25, 30 minutes, gives
me everything I need, and thatwas it.
Most people are not thataccessible.

(05:13):
How do you do that?
I mean honestly, you must getlike a zillion phone calls and
texts and emails.
How do you manage all that?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
My phone number is fairly well known, yeah, and you
know I have.
I'm not very smart, so I haveto take those calls because I
can't remember if I just done so.
I try to handle every singlething as fast as I can because,
you know, in business let's talkabout business.
Small business, yes, is notsmall to the guy who's got that

(05:46):
business, so we can define it.
If you want small business, ifit's your business, it is the
most important part of your day.
It's true.
When you have to make adecision as a business person,
male or female, you need thatinformation as quickly as
possible.
Yes, so speed sometimes isbetter than you know.
Know, there are a lot of mycompetitors.

(06:07):
That take forever, I tell you.
And the truth is, is if I don'treally like what you're showing
me, I should say, hey, eric man, I'm never going to get
comfortable with that, you knowso.
So the way you're designingthat is not going to be
something I'm probably going toever like.
So let's either talk about adifferent way to do it.

(06:27):
Or there's 30 banks innorthwest Arkansas.
Somebody may like that, butmost people appreciate the fact
that you're just honest from thebeginning.
But if it's really somethingyou know.
I mean, like in your case, howmany times have I said write the
check and bring me the title?
You have done that and Iappreciate that greatly.
It's like I know your business,I know you, I know your

(06:48):
financials.
What you're asking me to do isright in the middle of where
you're supposed to be, and if wehave to have a board meeting to
bless it later, we'll do that.
But having the guts to run abusiness is not an easy deal,
and that goes for bankers andthat goes for people in any
other business.
So if you have a greatrelationship with your banker,

(07:09):
your lawyer, your accountant,you're in a better shape than
someone that doesn't know any ofthe three.
That's right, amen.
Those three are always going tobe really important, sure, in
any business that we're in,because how's it going to affect
me from a tax standpoint?
Can I do it legally withoutgetting in trouble?
Do I have infringements?
Do I have all kinds of thingsthat go down the legal deal?
And then, is my banker going tosupport me when I get ready to

(07:31):
go borrow some money to go downthis path right?
And so speed is of the essence,I believe, and I think that's
what we're the best at, to behonest with you.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
I do think it's a huge differentiator for you.
It's accessibility, yeah, andspeed, and you have passed that
down through the organization.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, I mean you know , my son-in-law, will gladden,
runs the bank of fable and he'syou guys both dealt with will.
He's great guy answers hisphone.
Yeah, you know, it's sense ofurgency.
That and here's what you wantto teach people and sense of
urgency is the reason a lot ofbusinesses are successful
because they act quickly to fixif they have a problem.
Yep, and you know many peopleunder you know, I know a lot of

(08:10):
people that say you know, I'mnever going to take a phone call
.
My friend runs Arkansasbusiness right Northeast
Arkansas guy.
My old friends in Little Rockused to say don't you ever talk
to those newspaper peoplebecause you know they're going
to write something bad about you.
Well, they're going to writesomething bad about you.
Well, they're going to writewhatever they want.
You should as well havefriendships with them.
So at least they're going to go.
I'm mad at you and you know so.

(08:30):
So I call george walden backevery time he calls me or answer
his phone.
I know that's who it is andsometimes it's you know.
Hey, we've had a bad quarter.
I would rather tell it than himexactly, hey, yeah, what
happened?
We got in the middle of a deal.
It didn't work and you knowwhat?
We're going to keep plowing andI have an opportunity to say
hey, you know what?
It is not the end of the world,but nobody likes to lose.

(08:51):
Occasionally you do.
It's like being a footballcoach around here right now,
right, always, sometimes.
And when you do, what are yougoing to do about it, right?
Well, we go get some betterplayers.
That's what we're going to do,and the ones we got have been
pretty good at that.
And so you know, sometimes youjust have to believe.
Yep, right, and that's a keyintegral part of any business

(09:14):
person's mind is if you don'tbelieve that, I'm not going to
believe you.
Right, you have to believe inwhat you're selling, what you're
making, what you're doing atthe highest level.
Everybody else comes secondright, and I know my business, I
know what we do.
No one else can do it, and Iknow that.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
And you say you know, that's the thing about your
business.
I've always been fascinatedwith mature industries where
there's a zillion players andyou know how many banks do we
have in freaking northwestArkansas, gary?
You personally know.
I mean I get 30 differentbrands, different brand and 100
outlets, or more.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
You didn't count the chase that just got here, and if
you, I mean everybody wants tobe here now everybody's here.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's a highly regulated industry, right,
you've got people don'tunderstand there's a lot of
guardrails around what you canand can't do.
You may want to do something,but if you can't justify that
within the scheme of the theguardrails, then you can't do it
.
And yet how you havedifferentiated yourself in this

(10:16):
market and been able to come inand grow this bank, aside from
the responsiveness and speedwhich I have always told my
students, if they just do that,they're going to be more
successful what else has allowedyou to build this
differentiated business in thismature industry?
Great teammates, okay.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, that starts with.
You know, no one person can dovery much without running into
problems, so you have to have alot of people that can do
similar skills and, as Imentioned, I'm not really good
at a lot of things, but I'mreally good at getting a lot of
really smart people to work withme.
So we have people that havebeen with me.
I'm thinking you know,nightwise has worked with me his

(10:57):
entire adult life, graduatedfrom college working for me,
never left, been been thepresident of our bank in
springdale.
You know we have a great teamof people.
Then we like each other.
We got one rule get along, oryou get along and it we and it's
always been.
And you know no business needsto have a better rule than that,
because you know, I mean, ifyou can't come in here and and

(11:20):
be a teammate, yeah, gosomewhere else.
That's it you know.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
And so cynics and the critics, I got no use for them.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Well, life's too short to go to work, and have to
fight.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
But what would you say to the quote outside
management expert who would sayoh Gary, you want everybody to
toe the line.
You can't tolerate anydisagreement and discourse.
I'll give you a great example.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
What do you say to that, the FDIC?
When all the banks in the worldwere in trouble, they put us
under an order.
They wrote most banks wereunder like 08, 09 somewhere, and
so they required me to get amanagement um study of our team.
Well, I was a graduate of thebest banking schools in the

(12:05):
country and the very best personto do that happened to work for
that company and I happened toknow him.
So I used that company and theFDIC is going oh, how did you
get them to do that?
Well, because he was a friendof mine, let's start down that
road.
So he turns our bank upside down, as was his challenge and his
responsibility, and he takesthat very seriously.

(12:26):
So he does that.
We go to the exit interview.
I've got it somewhere.
And he said I've got to behonest with you.
I don't know why they asked meto come do this.
He said the only thing I canfind is I think you're paying
your security guy too much money, swear to God.
And I said to him well, mysecurity guard doesn't just do

(12:47):
security, he does this, he doesthat, he does this, he does this
.
Stop, that's all I needed.
That's what the report said.
So I know how that feels to bescrutinized in a very demeaning
way.
This lady at the FDIC told me Iwas the worst banker she ever
met in her life, to my face, wow, yes, well, that made me better

(13:09):
.
You know what I mean.
I should probably go find herand hug her neck, even though I
probably won't, but her strengthis, it made me work a lot
harder to make sure that I couldprove she was wrong.
That's right, and we had a lotof teammates that don't like
losing, and I've never metanybody that is a good winner
that likes losing right, so thatmeans you'll work harder.
I get up earlier.
I'll stay up later.

(13:29):
I'll answer phone calls at nineo'clock at night, yes, you know
.
But but think about this I Igrew up in northwest arkansas
with some of the greatestbusiness people that have ever
been on this planet, and youguys talked about a few, but you
forget about Jim Lindsay, mygosh.
Jim Lindsay was my guy, he wasmy mentor, he was.

(13:50):
I tried to do everything he didbecause he was really good at
it and he cared, you know, andhe probably has as much to do
mold in my life as anybody thatI ever dealt with.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
He was a very disciplined guy, wasn't he?
He was really big on returningcalls too dealt.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
He was a very disciplined guy, wasn't he?
He was really big on returningcalls too.
He.
I remember a time or two I'd goby his office and he drove a, a
wagoneer, paneled wagoneer, andI, if that was there, he was
there, so I'd stop.
If it wasn't there, it didn'tstop.
So and I've known everysecretary he ever had in his
life, so I'd walk in noappointment, just look in there
and he's.
He didn't ever have a desk, hehad a couch and he had a phone.
And I knew jim lindsey beforecell phones because I gave him

(14:27):
his first like right back.
So so I'd peek in there andhe'd either go come on in he
never quit talking, or he, orhe'd just do that and I knew it
was go on, he's doing something.
He didn't need me in the middleof.
Yeah, so I would go in and sitdown and he and karen at the
time was his secretary thesewere the old days where you had
pink notes and you had thatspike.

(14:47):
You'd stick them on that spike.
That spike would be that high.
This would be 8 o'clock atnight and I would go and sit
down and he says I return everysingle phone call on this before
I go home.
Yeah, I was a Sam Walton, realtoo.
Yeah, but look at that, jimLindsey did not learn that from
sam walton.
He had that innate, I believe.
And so he said most of the timethey don't even answer the

(15:09):
phone because it's 8 30 at nightand it maybe it's a business.
But when they say to me youdidn't call me back, I can say,
yes, I called you back, I calleverybody back.
So I thought man jim lindseycalls everybody back.
Who in the world's gary head?
He better darn sure, calleverybody back.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
It's a sign of respect.
It is, I think, and that's sofundamental in your
relationships with people, whichyou have been a rock star or
movie star in creating andmaintaining.
What else do you think is thekey to that, though?
Maintain, you know, becauseeverybody goes.
Relationships are great.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
It's important to do this.
To that, though, maintain, youknow, because everybody goes.
Relationships are great, well,but I think my biggest job today
and 208 employees and 10locations, um is to make sure
that our culture stays the same.
You know, because you bring inall those people and you get
somebody that doesn't get theculture and you can have a
festering problem.
That is my fault if it happens,because I should have avoided

(16:07):
it, right?
You know, I am blessed to havepeople that get it on the
culture thing, and all of ourcommanders, and that's what I
think they are.
They're running these markets.
They get it, man.
They know what our culture is.
They know, I think the otherday in Jonesboro, you're all
down they call us thealternative bank, and that's
cool to me.
That's the coolest thing you'veever called me.

(16:27):
Yeah, yeah, because you knowwhat that means.
I'm not the normal old boy,we're just right.
Yeah, I am the alternative bank.
Well, you know, in Harrison,arkansas, the young lady that
runs that bank, she startedworking in college at the lobby
at Signature Bank and Fable,she's now president of the bank
in her hometown.
Now you tell me what's coolerthan that.
I don't know what's cooler thanthat Exactly.

(16:48):
You know, will Gladden was ateller behind that line in
Fayetteville, arkansas.
He's president of that bank.
That's the kind of stories thateverybody doesn't really
understand.
You can't make someone be proud.
Yeah, they have to have thatinternally.
So if you find people that havedone things that they should be
proud of and put them in areasof responsibility, it's amazing

(17:08):
what happens.
Yep, that's very true, andevery business has those people
that need to be turned loose togo hey, what can you do on your
own?
You ran a business, you ran abusiness.
You can't run all that business.
Oh, no, well, no.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Not even get close to it.
I mean, he's got it.
You have to have that team.
I think that one thing you weretalking about earlier about
calling people back.
You know, I think that I'vebeen guilty of this to where I
start seeing it as more of a jobor a responsibility versus
continuing that passion ofcalling those to that humility,
like you were talking about inthe very beginning, from your

(17:43):
dad.
Right, like you're really.
Like you're talking about thevery beginning, from your dad,
right, yeah, like you're you'rereally.
When you start slipping intothis is a business and I have to
do things for the businessversus I'm really helping people
be successful.
I think it's critical and keyin, with your 20 years at the
bank and all you've done in yourcareer, how do you maintain
that type of vision like that toto stay connected with really

(18:07):
the value that you're bringing.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Well, you have to like it.
When you don't, you should quit.
Yeah, that's the only way I cantell you is that I mean, I got
a lot of friends I'm 64.
I got a lot of friends that areretiring.
Yeah, because they're done withit.
Yeah, they don't love it, Ilove it.
They're like when are you goingto retire?
I go when you read the obituarycolumn you're gonna stay.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
I like I'm out carry me out on a stretcher baby, but
until then, uh you know, one ofmy oldest friends turns 88 next
tuesday.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Uh mort flusher he run, he he was chairman last of
store capital, which was thelargest real estate read in the
united states turns 88 yesterday.
Call me to wish me happyholidays.
And he's an old jewish fellowthat I became friends with 25
years ago and we've remainedfriends all these years.
I'm on the board of his uhflusher scholars and and and I

(18:51):
enjoy calling him and I I meanso.
We've kept a relationship, haddinner with him two months ago
in phoenix.
He lives in scottsdale and andyou know, to me all of us need
those people, that sort of checkyour math.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Make you sit up a littlestraighter, make you think a
little differently, right, andyou can't if they're politically

(19:11):
opposite of you.
That makes them bad, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's the problem in the country today.
Yes, we all need you know it'snot all.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Vanilla ice cream, yeah, there's chocolate
strawberry, there's sprinkles.
Right, vanilla ice cream,there's chocolate strawberry,
there's sprinkles.
Everybody brings something tothe table.
It doesn't make me right andyou wrong.
I might not agree witheverything you say, but at the
end of the day I'm proud to knowyou, because you know some
stuff I don't know, and I wisheveryone thought about that this
morning.
I agree.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Because it is really, I'd be like like there is a
level of energy in this roomright now, as entrepreneurs,
right, that we honestly havethat a lot of folks can't get to
.
But I think that when we'retalking about folks trying to be

(20:00):
entrepreneurs, they want to beentrepreneurs, they're thinking
about the product and all thesekind of strategic, tactical
things that have to happen.
But there is something core inthis room that's instinctual,
that's emotional, that whereyou're talking about connecting
with other people, improvingyourself, learning from them,
being mentored, mentoring others.
That's really special, I think,in our hearts, right, because I

(20:23):
agree, we want to be loved,want to be loved, want to be
loved, we want to love.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, we want to be loved, exactly, you know, I
think you're right about that,but not to change the subject
again, but you are, but I will.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I was getting somewhere in this.
I'm needing counseling and youblock.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
This is our normal, terrible, terrible.
We have to counsel each otherhere.
I want to go back to SignatureBank and it's sort of aligned
with something that you said,gary.
You have started this Banko C,yes, which is, I think, is a.
It just was brilliant.

(21:04):
I mean, the moment you told meabout that.
I'm like there's an idea that'sgoing to work.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
And you know, tell us about this.
So Banco C is 100% Hispanic-runorganizations in downtown
Rogers and downtown Springdale.
My entire team are allLatino-Latina.
Thank you for not calling themLatinx.
They speak English better thanI do.

(21:32):
I am on my 838th day ofDuolingo Espanol, trying to make
sure that I know when they talkbad about me.
They think that's funny.
I am El Patron because we havea president, so they love
calling me El Patron.
They write all my speeches andI can read it.
And here's what I do know isthat we have a couple of hundred
thousand Latino Latinas livingin Northwest Arkansas that were

(21:55):
being underbanked, exactly.
So I didn't do anything otherthan you know go try to serve a
market that was already here.
Sure, I didn't create thatmarket.
I didn't, and I think theinteresting thing that you guys
would probably.
You know you still have to havehelp.
You know, because I don't speakSpanish very well and I'm
learning.
But so I go to Dr Adam Arroyos,who is an incredible human, and

(22:18):
I had lunch with him at Meijiand I said look, here's what
happened one time when I wasbehind that line as president of
the bank in Fayetteville.
So I watched some guy come upthere and he was standing there
at the teller line when all ofthe other people were casting
their checks and I'm like what anice guy.
I can't believe he's likeinterpreting because we didn't
have anybody, probably, whocould speak any.
I come to find out later thathe told them that we were going

(22:39):
to cheat them out of their moneyand so he was charging them a
buck apiece to cast their checks.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Oh my gosh Infuriated Wow.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Infuriated, no kidding.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's terrible.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Hey, liars, right.
And so I just.
It took me a while because wewent through what all the banks
went through.
And so, finally, I was tellingthe story and I said you know, I
want a bank that anyone whospeaks Spanish as a first
language or strongly as theirfirst language can walk in and
not have one question about whatare they getting into?

(23:15):
What am I buying?
What am I selling?
What is the financialrepercussions?
There is a lack of trust.
What am I trying to do?
And we know why.
Because no one cares.
Sure, I care.
So here's what happens is DrArroyo says to me I still have
to take my mother to the bank.
She is not comfortable in therewithout me.

(23:39):
And I said, adam, you help mebuild a bank that your mother
will go in by herself.
And she did.
Now, that's success.
And so, you know, is there aBanco C everywhere?
There's probably an office ofBanco C inside of the rest of
our banks, but the biggest twopopulations are Rogers and
Springdale.
We're going to start there andsee if we can make a difference.
Yeah, we are dedicated to it.
Our board loves it, you know.

(23:59):
Yeah, I think it's brilliant.
There's a lot of educationinvolved, because there's a lot
of those Hispanic people thathave never they've been taught
not to trust a bank.
Yeah, so we have to start overwith the wait minute.
You know, eddie ramos is areally good guy.
He graduated from springdalehigh school, but his family's
from mexico.
He's a really good guy.
Go talk to eddie and let himhelp you be successful.

(24:21):
And there's 1800 1800 members oflatin xna, which adam's company
has, of small business innorthwest arkansas.
Yeah, 1800, sure, hopefullysomebody needs to do this with
their Spanish, right?
No, no, absolutely you need to.
No.
And those people will have anopportunity to be more
successful if they have moreaccess to finances.

(24:44):
Of course, yes, and so what'sin it for me?
Duh, I want to be the guy thatloans in the money, right, right
, right.
And I get to make money when Iloan money.
But at the same time, todaythey're operating.
Hey, you know what?
I'm building a house.
More than half of the peoplebuilding that house for me are
hispanic.
That's right, you know, I go toevery one of them when I give

(25:04):
them a bike to see that I go getyour tail over there.
Yeah, you know, yeah, sure,make sure you know what's
availed to you.
You don't have have to doanything.
I just want you to beinformationally educated about
what you have the opportunity todo.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yep, you know it's such a great idea.
It's amazing that nobody elsethought of that.
I mean, it didn't.
Well, and if you see any of thepopulation.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
It's just.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
The population is going to be a huge part of all
of our future, you know, not tomention the percentage of
self-employment and businessownership has got to be higher
than it is for Caucasians, right?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
More Hispanic businesses are started every day
than anything.
Yeah exactly, and we'llcontinue to be on that rise.
Sure, and you know, all of themlaugh when I screw up my
conversations in Spanish, butthey appreciate the fact that
I'm Italian, right?
Yes, I mean, I can barely speakEnglish, I went to your spring

(25:59):
high school.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Give me a break, and they know that they're like.
He can barely speak English too.
El Patron, el Patron, yeah, hey, I'd hate to rewind it back,
but what he's talking about iscompassion.
It is no, it is.
I mean it really is right.
It is no, it is, I mean itreally is right.
Yeah, if people don't have thatcore, then you're going to wind
out of energy, you're going tolose the focus of why you do the

(26:23):
things that you do.
That is the difference betweenwhat Signature Bank brings and
it's coming from you right inthat founding moment.
Gary's a people person.
I mean really, yeah, he's apeople person Even though you're
in that founding moment, likegary's, a people person, people,
I mean, he really is the peopleperson.
Even though you're in aquantitative business I just
think that we complicatebusiness so much I know I really
it's the driven passion behindthat person.

(26:44):
I was reading something thismorning, uh, or I was watching a
video this morning right on onlinkedin and it was a founder of
a really successful company andhe was talking about how really
smart folks that go througheducation right, they build
these expectations because yougraduate with really smart
people, you're around reallysmart people, and then you go
out in the real world and youhave this expectation get this

(27:06):
big corporate job.
But when you're an entrepreneur, what these people are missing
is resilience because theirexpectations.
So when they go to those thingswhere you have to suffer,
they're like, well, am Isuffering?
I'm too smart to suffer?
Well, but it's the resiliencethat's the entrepreneur and the
resilience is coming from avision of compassion or
something you're trying toobtain and you go through the

(27:29):
freaking suffering.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
I got to tell you this story because this is my
favorite.
This is old, this was from myfriend.
My friend's in Little Rock ranFirst Commercial Bank, very
successful bank, and CharlieMurphy was his lead stockholder
in the day and Murphy OilCompany.
And sure, charlie was a saltyold guy and he used to put a
cigar in his mouth and chew itthrough the board meetings and

(27:50):
he had some really cool things.
Occasionally you go, we'regoing to count the vote away it
meaning I own more.
We're going to do what I tellyou.
And he would.
They had this big thick whitecarpet and and uh, on their
boardroom and he'd chew thatcigar, spit and then drove the
chairman out of his mind.
Barnett, grace, he's spittingon the floor.
You know, oh my gosh, yeah, hedidn't care, he paid, he paid

(28:11):
for it, so so.
So they had this bigconversation one time at first
commercial about and three of myfriends were in it about we're
just not smart enough.
We've got to go hire someStanford and some Horton and all
of this stuff because we'rejust not smart enough.
And so this guy, charlie's sogood, he spit his cigar out, he
goes.

(28:31):
Let me just tell y'all he saidwe did the same thing down there
at Murphy Oil Company.
We hired all these smart guys.
You know what smart guys knowhow to do?
Make everybody else work.
They don't work.
They sit around and figure outhow not to work.
He said I fired every one ofthem.
He said I went up there at theUniversity of Arkansas in
Fayetteville and I asked twoquestions.
First is did you work while youwere in college?

(28:52):
If the answer was no, I saidthank you very much, yes.
Second question is did yougraduate with a C or better?
And if it was yes, I hired him.
We've never made more money.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
And the term is so true, that is so true.
You know, I was just sayingteach him to work.
That was his point.
But see, I think all of us anda lot of successful people I
know who are real entrepreneurs,they did a lot of crappy jobs,
oh my God, okay.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
The first question on an interview was what's the
hardest job you ever had andwhat?

Speaker 1 (29:23):
made it difficult and that makes you more empathetic
with the working man and theplight of the person who's out
there doing whatever yourbusiness does.
Yeah, and if you haven't hadthat experience, you can't
relate how I went.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
I went through tirades with hr people in my
life, and especially when Iworked at harvest, because they
were really worried about it.
But I'd always go where are youfrom?
We can't ask that why?
Well, you know, I mean, you'reredlining or, yeah, some rule.
I don't even know what it is.
Well, wait a minute, what if Iknow, like half the people that
you know?
Why would I not want to know?

(29:57):
Of course you grow up becausewhere you grew up says a lot
about you.
True, it defines all of us.
Where did you grow up?
What kind of life did you have?
Because in life you want to tryto fit people together that are
congruent.
Of course, if you know whereeverybody's from and you know
how you were raised and how Iwas raised, then you have a lot
better chance of makingeverybody happy than if you're

(30:19):
trying to discover that later byfinding out you know, hey, I've
never had a real job, you know,yeah.
So anyway, I've always askedthat question when are you from?
And you know it's a small world.
Of course it is.
Yeah, it's a small world.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Hey, all you got to do is do 23andMe and you'll find
out who you're related to.
That you didn't even know, Iknow.
Okay, I found out.
One of the largest developersaround here is actually a cousin
of mine.
Oh my gosh, I mean it's likehow does that happen?
But no, gary, though.
Back on what we're talkingabout.
One of the things I think isgreat about banking and why I

(30:56):
encourage some of myentrepreneurial students to look
at banking, which you wouldthink isn't entrepreneurial.
Right, right, you got theserules, you got these guidelines.
You know there's a lot of themout there, whatever, but it's
the education that you get as abanker.
In just history, everythingBusiness, all aspects of

(31:18):
business.
It's like case study after casestudy after case study after
case study.
Look at the Harvard BusinessSchool.
How do they teach people Casestudies?
What do you have on a dailybasis?
Case study After case study andcase study.
Who makes money?
Who does it, what works, whatdoesn't, who?

Speaker 3 (31:34):
fails, who succeeds?
What caused them to not make it?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
On that point, what can you see after all this time
that you've had A goodentrepreneur, an entrepreneur
that you can maybe sense that'sgoing to do well.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
That's difficult.
42 years is how long I've beendoing this.
Today is my 43rd weddinganniversary to the same poor
woman.
Congratulations, it's amazingTo you, god.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
She is a saint Medal of Honor.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
It's all of us, I think.
But you know, so you've got tostick to it is.
My point about all of that ispeople get in things and it's
not the flavor of the day,because if it's the flavor of
the day it's easy to quit.
So the people that I've seenthat have been successful are

(32:28):
horrible losers.
They are willing to do whateverit takes to make it and and and
I try to ascertain that fromthe conversation from the
beginning right, yeah, that'snot always easy, but I'm better
at it today than I was, you know, 43 years ago, I think.
I think that the people thatI've seen, that you know, some

(32:49):
people get in a business andthen they get fat and happy I
guess that's the right words touse in this context Sure, and
they quit working.
Yeah, they hire some smart guyto run their business and they
don't pay attention.
Kiss of death.
Sure, the thing ain't workingand the culture goes to hell.
And you know what Things don't?
They don't run the same.
So if you don't want to run it,get out of it.

(33:11):
That's my advice to a smallbusiness.
I like that, and if you want torun it, then do it, and do it
every day.
You know, restaurant businessesare people that start
restaurants and then they try tomake a thousand of them and you
know that culture goes away andthat's why they're.
You know, the biggest failurein the world is restaurants turn

(33:32):
over faster than any otherbusiness in the world, because
you can't be at all of them, theones that I know.
I mean you know what?
I've been Jose's banker all hislife.
He ran every business he everran and every one of them was
successful, because when youwent down there and walked in,
there was Joe Fennell standingright there, right, yeah, and he
cared.
Yeah, yeah, joe's a great guy,doug's the same way.
Doug has Jose's working.

(33:55):
You know, he's not fishing,he's working.
So, yeah, I just think thatpeople that care win more than
not.
Yeah, because they do care andthey'll work harder to figure
out.
What do I got to do to keepmaking it?
You know, because it would havebeen easy in 2009 to hand them
the keys and go this ain't gonnawork, man, that's sure.
Am I gonna put up with allthese regulators and they're
telling me I'm dumb and stupidand horrible, right, right, but
you know what?
Everything I own was in thisbusiness, of course, and I'm not

(34:18):
giving up.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I'm a horrible quitter.
Yeah, I don't like quitters.
I never was one, you know.
Maybe I should have a time ortwo, but I never would.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, so you kind of when you're talking to a new
entrepreneur, that's shutbusiness.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
I mean, you can get their passion I'm looking for
their wisdom about.
Hey, everybody knows how itworks.
If it's good, yeah.
My questions are always whatare you going to do if this
doesn't work?
Well, that's not going to workwith me.
Yeah, I'm going to go get a joband pay you back.
Yeah, that's what I expect tohear.

(34:51):
It's a good answer, because thetruth is, you know, are you
going to quit and leave meholding the bag?
So are you going to go dowhatever it takes to make sure
you honor your work?
Yeah, because every note that'sever been says I promise to pay
.
It's what it says.
Yeah, everyone you ever sign, Ihear you it says so you promise
to pay.
Okay, well, are you going to doit?

(35:12):
Right, because that's the jobof a banker is to collect the
money back.
One time, jb Hunt was drivingdown the road and we were
talking about this and bankingand his stuff and this and that,
and he goes.
You know we're all in thereceivables business.
Nothing better has ever beensaid.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, you know, yeah, what's been said before the
banks really only provideliquidity.
Yeah, what do you think of thatstatement?
Well then, that's a horriblebanker.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, because you do more than that well, if all you
need is money, go see bank ofamerica, because that's all
you're going to get.
You're getting no advice.
They're not going to be.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
They're not going to be, uh, interested in your
success yeah, you did like amanagement consultant or
business consultant, a businessthat you work with.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
I mean, we're a financial partner.
Yeah, what do you want out of apartner?
You want good advice.
Buy them.
Stay in the corner.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
No, no Input.
You want more than their money,you want their advice.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
You want their expertise.
Tell me what you think about mydeal.
Sure, every single time I had ameeting two days ago, one
partner buying out anotherpartner.
He wanted me there because hewanted to look me in the eye and
say here's what I think I'mgoing to do.
What do you think?
I think it's the best idea.
I've ever heard this guy'shappy.
You're happy, you got theability to do it.
When do we close?
We went to the board the nextday and blessed what we'd

(36:31):
already agreed to do.
Yeah, that's how we did it.
Sure, and our board loves thatdeal.
They love those people.
They already knew him.
This wasn't some new guy totown, right, but it's great to
see people getting to buy theirpartners out.
Yeah, this age and other.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Sure, that's the exit , it's the continuity.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
I mean, how long would it take a Bank of America
to agree to let some guy off thedebt?
Oh yeah, right, and buy the guyout with an existing line of
credit?
They probably couldn't even doit.
Well, there's going to be someagreement that's going to have
to be rewritten and it's goingto take a lawyer nine weeks to
think about what's going to bein this agreement.
Right, business has to happen atthe speed of business and it's

(37:08):
very difficult.
And, honestly, you know, a $10billion bank has rules I don't
have we.
And, honestly, you know, a $10billion bank has rules I don't
have.
We're a B3.
You know I have no desire to be$10 billion and have all these
rules that make what I do no fun.
Yeah, right, I know I have nodesire to be in that situation.
Hey, my old friend French Hillgot named to the bank the
congressional chair of financeand that's a big deal because he

(37:31):
was a banker in Arkansas andhe's really good.
I text him and congratulate himand hopefully he can help make
some of these rules better forbusiness and better for banks,
which means better for businessas far as some of the silliness
that's been going on, withcertain people trying to write
all the rules CFPB trying to.
You know you're not smartenough to borrow money, so we're
going to tell the bank how theyhave to loan you money.

(37:53):
Well, there's a lot of rules inbanking that cost money
eventually to the end userbecause we have to buy people to
keep up with the paperwork.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
That's right.
Excuse me, yeah, you've onlygot so much to work with there.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
And there's still the court of law If I don't treat
you right, you can sue me.
You know what I'm saying,mm-hmm there.
And there's still a lot of lawif I don't treat you right, you
can sue me.
You know I'm saying so.
So a lot of that stuff isassuming that you're too dumb to
understand that and you shouldbe as a customer.
You should be pissed that theythink you're too dumb to
understand that.
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, I don't understand the litigiousness of
some people.
It's never been my orientation,no, and it generally.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
It doesn't cost a lot of money and never works so
what's another question I have,like as an entrepreneur, like
entrepreneurs, like I'm justusing myself as like I was not
in banking, right, I didn't comefrom that background, I didn't
work at a bank, I didn'tunderstand anything about it.
I just knew when I started mybusiness that I needed some cash
to make investments and thingsand things I needed to do.
But what's important for a bank, like as an entrepreneur, like

(38:57):
how should I approach?
I mean, you gave the number one, are you going to pay me back?
Yeah, the big promise, right,which, okay, say, I check that
off.
That's just my character.
But next, as I'm trying to growmy business and like what's
important for the bank to havefrom the entrepreneur in order
to continue, to partnerSimilarly to the original
conversation is okay, here'swhat we think we're going to do,

(39:18):
but here's our plan B.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
If you don't have a plan B, how do I get the hell
out of this deal?
Yeah, you better know how toget out of it.
Yeah, I don't want to be theone that has to get out of it,
right?
Yeah, so the riskier that it is, and startup businesses are the
riskiest, then you know, youand I have told a thousand of
your students sometimes you haveto have a rich uncle, sometimes

(39:41):
you have to have somebody thathas the money that allows you to
borrow that much money, becauseyou ain't ever going to borrow
that much money.
Yeah, and you know, I couldlove the hell out of a project,
but if it doesn't have a plan B,I can't explain that either.
You know, because I I haveregulators that come in, you
know, every other year.
Hello, how you doing.
Let me look at all your stuff.

(40:02):
Yeah, so, um, a lot of timespeople never really think about
why they should develop arelationship with people with
money.
Well, I don't want to give upany of my ownership, okay, well,
a little p I mean a hundredpercent of a little bitty deal
does not weigh the same ExactlyHalf of a giant deal, because
you were smart enough to go sellsome other people that have

(40:24):
some other thing to add to yourbusiness, right, you don't go to
if you go get partners just formoney outside of a bank not a
good idea.
You want to go get people thatare, you know, additive to
whatever you're doing.
They know something aboutshipping, they know something
about some other part of yourbusiness.
They come out of a customer.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, they're a regulator, exactly Whatever it
is.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, so many times.
A good business plan has toinclude I've had to go out and
raise money with people that Idon't know.
You know has to include I'vehad to go out and raise money
with people that I don't know.
You're very successful at it.
The fact is, you have to have aplan B, and plan B can't be
well if it don't work.
I'm toast.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
So a good plan B to a banker would look like hey,
here's my business idea.
I need to borrow this amount.
Good for paying that back.
Also, look at the people I'msurrounding with, I'm connecting
with, I'm getting to be part ofmy business.
That reduces the riskassociated.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
The thought is how do I reduce it?
As the entrepreneur, you wantto reduce risk to yourself.
You know I'm going to puteverything in this and I got a
family, and if this doesn't work, I'm going to out here on the
side of the road.
You want to try to buildsomething that lasts, and so to
last, sometimes you have to haveother people's money.
Yep, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yep, one thing I always advise my small business
that I work with smallbusinesses or students or
whatever is keep your bankinformed of good and bad.
Exactly, most people don't wantto get.
They only want to give the good.
But they never say like, hey,this is what's going on, but
this is how we're dealing withit, but it's going to look ugly

(42:08):
for the next three months, right, okay.
Instead they just let it getugly for three months and then
they go.
Holy cow, we're you know bankshate that.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, and you know bad news.
Yeah, you know bad news is notfun, no matter who you are.
When it is, it doesn't matter.
But you know if you got to eatan elephant you've got to take
big bites.
So if he does something wrong,go and take it.
You hit it over with.
Jim Lizzie used to always tellme also he goes hey, call, the
hardest call, you got first.
Yes, You're on a downhill slidethrough the field, it's true.

(42:41):
And man telling somebody that Ican't loan you money to me sucks
.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
I don't like doing that.
Yeah, you want them, you makemoney from them.
I don't want to make them.
I don't want to make them.
But when somebody's sopassionate and yet I can't get
comfortable with the damn thing,that call sucks to me.
That's one of the worst calls Ihave to make is hey, you know
what?
I can't do that I've tried tofigure everything in the world

(43:03):
and I just can't get there.
And if I have a, they're likewell, hey, tell me why I need to
do something different If youdon't like me.
You're like you're a turd.
See you later.
I'm going somewhere else and Idon't want to be that guy that
just says yes or no.
I want to have advice.
Yeah, All of our people do.
We have relationships we'refriends with.

(43:24):
I don't think we have clientswe're not friends with.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
We have friendly relations withevery client that we have, and
that's how we can move faster isbecause I know you, I know
everything you've done, I knowwhat you got and I can say to
you on the telephone if you'rein California, I want to buy
this dadgum, souped-up Bronco inthe middle of it.
That would be more like him,but souped-up Bronco.

(43:45):
Write a check, bring the titlewith you, let's go.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
You know how do you maintain that, though, at the
scale that you know now you're abillion, three or whatever, you
have to have more people thatcan do it.
You know, because that's finewhen you're, you know, a certain
size, right, ryan?

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Dangley can do it.
Okay, I mean I can name everypresident.
I got you know Ryan Moore'sover there in Jonesboro and in
the alternative bank and how doyou make the handoff?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
You know, I think another problem with a business
that probably a lot of us havehad is that your customers only
want to deal with you.
So it's like how do you say,hey, you know.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
I got to, I got to do that.
You always go with my provider,yeah.
So you know, here's the deal.
I'm never going to tell you youcan't call me.
So the answer is but when thatperson that's taking care of
your stuff and doing actuallydoing all the work, yeah, yeah,
you quit calling me.
I know you're comfortable, yeah, and it's sure, quick dial on

(44:47):
me, then I probably got thewrong guy handling your stuff,
yeah, or lady fair, that's yeah.
So I've never quit taking thosephone calls and sometimes, even
though that person is someonethat you trust and admire, you
say, hey, I want to know whatyou think about this.
I get those every single day,seven days a week.
You know my phone rings onSaturday and it's just like you

(45:07):
know.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
That's a really good point.
I like that because that's beena.
That's a really good point.
I like that because it's been a.
That's a challenge that I'veexperienced.
You know, as you buildrelationships, you're getting
clients, you're the entrepreneur.
You've got to be in sales,you've got to be the one that's
building partnerships andrelationships right, and then
there comes a point where thework is too much.
You can't work, no, you can'texecute exactly, and then how do

(45:29):
you start passing over?
I I love that statement.
You know that if you're callingme still, that I need to find
somebody else to help you in allyour business.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Well, you've got to think about this.
If you have all of theresponsibilities and you aren't
as proud as you should be ofthat person, that can take that
away.
See some entrepreneurs get pasttheir ego being I'm the best, I
am yeah, I am.
You know I'm the only man thatcan do this, and so you better

(45:59):
be.
You probably haven't been inbusiness very long.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
One-person management .
It's a failure of a lot ofsmall businesses.
One-person management.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
You should be proud of the people that can
accomplish what you do, as youare of your own accomplishment.
If you can't do that, you aregoing to be limited.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
That segues beautifully into the next thing
I'd like to talk about.
We're in a hot employmentmarket.
I mean we're in a hot area.
Right Northwest Arkansas isprobably one of the greatest
economies out there.
I mean DFW is maybe bigger, butI mean this is a great area.
I mean DFW is maybe bigger, butI mean this is a great area.
And so many small businessowners say I can't hire anybody.

(46:37):
There's no good people outthere.
My people suck.
That's why we have bad customerservice.
Yada, yada, yada.
What do you say to that?
Why do they have a hard timehiring good people?

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, probably because they don't want to pay
them Exactly.
Second, I agree, 100%.
Second, you know, and here'sthe thing I always tell people
when they go to work for us isthat, first off, I have jobs, I
don't have positions, so you'vegot to do the job.
Second is, the more I pay you,the higher my expectations of

(47:11):
your output.
Yes, i's be clear.
If I'm going to start you atthat, you better run fast every
day, get on the treadmill, don'tget off.
So you have to prove yourself,just like I did, right?
No, my dad was a real mailcarrier.
I didn't come to this worldwith money, I had to work.
I expect that from everybodythat works at that place, sure,
and so you have to setexpectations, but you can't be

(47:34):
afraid to hire someone and paythem if they're good.
Yeah, no, I saw that 30 for 30,and I probably watched two of
them in my entire life.
But I saw Jimmy Johnson becauseI know him and I like him.
The old football coach, right,mm-hmm, and they were doing a 30
for 30 on how successful he'dbeen in.
The last clip was the only oneworth watching.

(47:55):
He he's getting on his boat,miami, because that's where he
lived after he coached there.
He's got bill belichick in theboat with him and they're
getting ready to take off and go.
And he goes, coach, what's thebest advice you ever gave
anybody?
And he said well my gosh, heturns and looks he goes.
I'm going to tell you, I'mgoing to give you the advice I
got from that guy right there.

(48:15):
The best advice I ever give isthe best advice I ever got.
Coach.
What did you tell me?
He says you can't coach dumb.
That guy could be the mostathletically talented human
being on the planet.
Bill bel Belichick's got sixworld championships.
You can't coach dumb who?
They may be shiny and look goodand all that stuff.

(48:37):
That's so true, but if theydon't understand the plays they
ain't going to make them.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Well, I've always said you can't win an argument
with a stupid person.
Well, okay, I mean, and it's,it's not about me anyway, thank
God I've heard you.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
No, that's stupid, but okay, well, I think you have
to try to think about thequality.
I mean you've got to be alittle better at interviewing,
you know.
I mean, unfortunately, in mylifetime I've had to interview a
few thousand people.
Sure, you get better at it only.
But if you're starting a newbusiness and you've interviewed
five people in your life, youdon't ask them what's the

(49:14):
hardest question you ever asked.
What's the hardest job you everhad in your life?
What made it difficult?
That tells you about what theirbackground is right.
They need some help on stufflike that about how do I hire
someone that knows how to work.
There you go, not what theirgrade point average was.
Mine was 2.009.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
I remind you that I I know you always say that,
listen, I had a brother, though,like you, is very successful,
and he had a similar gpa.
Yeah, let me just say, but Imade a some okay, but john, but
anyway, he ended up the head ofa 17 billion dollar company.
But um, so no um.
But back on this, on this wholenotion of hiring.

(49:54):
You know, first off, we're notjust talking about startups,
we're talking about existingsmall businesses and you know, I
do think many of them if youtalk to these owners, they'll
tell you they're not reallyinterested in growth.
Now, don't you think that makesit hard to hire good people if
you say I don't want to?

Speaker 3 (50:14):
grow.
I wouldn't want to go to workExactly, I'm as big as I want to
be and we want you to come here.
Yeah, Someone once told me Ilike you right where you are, oh
that's terrible.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
It didn't last very long.
No, that's the last job youwant.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
It was yeah, and so I will tell you that most people
want you know, honestly, theywant opportunity.
Right, that's what we all wantOpportunity and opportunity
comes with growth.
It doesn't come with it.
Does we're going to shut thisthing down?
I want you to come over and goto work for me, yeah, oh, I'm
headed for the stop sign as fastas I can go, so I can stop,

(50:48):
right, you know, stop right youknow it's no good.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
The great thing about the growth is you get jobs
you're not qualified for exactly, and that's how you grow at it.
Yeah, yeah, that's how you grow, yeah, so so you know, ellen?

Speaker 3 (51:00):
here's another thing we graduate a ton of kids, yeah,
more every day out of that uva.
Right, okay, without thateducation I also never had a job
.
Okay, because it just had.
That's how I got a job.
John dominic got me a jobbecause I had an education, not
because I was smart, not becauseI was anything, because I
finished what I started, period,right, that's what.
That's what college did.
A big part of it.

(51:20):
I finished what I started.
Well, here's the here's.
The cool thing is I have hadpeople with every degree as
bankers.
Sure, you can be a history guy,and you know if you're a
history guy, and you know ifyou're a history major, guess
what?
You know a lot about history.
There's a lot of clients.
They love history.
So you have a conversationpiece that not everybody has.
Yeah, good point.
You don't have to be a financeguy to have finance jobs.

(51:43):
Just prove that you can staysomewhere and finish what you
started.
Now give me a shot at learninghow to do this.
I learned banking when I got inbanking.
I learned banking in college.
Right, right, yeah, you learneverything you've ever done.
They didn't have a class onthat in school.
No, they.
You have the only entrepreneurclass that I'm aware of on the
planet Earth and that yet doesnot teach them to be an

(52:05):
entrepreneur.
You're telling them don't walkout of here and think you're
going to get to do one.
One in 10 million has got to beFacebook.
You know what I'm?

Speaker 1 (52:12):
saying no, exactly, oh gosh.
But that's another thing that Ijust want to touch on, and that
is, you know, this idea thatyou have to start a business.
I always tell my students,maybe buying a business is a
better way to go.
What do you think about that?
Well, and again, I don't thinkit's talked enough about in

(52:32):
entrepreneurship, do you?

Speaker 3 (52:33):
No, and many times you could be really fortunate.
I've seen some people verysuccessful that went to a person
that was aging out because ofage yes, and they needed that
enthusiasm, new blood, yep, newBlood and that put those people
in an unbelievable opportunityto run a really good company

(52:54):
quickly, because they had all ofthose skittles, that work ethic
, all of those things and thetiming was right.
Yes, hey, I want you to learnto do this and do it fast,
because I want to go to thebeach or where you want to go
when you quit, right, and so Ithink that finding a business

(53:14):
with over-management if I had todo it over again, right, I
would want to think about that.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, there's a lot of value to that.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
They've got customers , that's the thing.
They've got a history offinancial performance that you
can look at.
Yeah, it's easier to borrowmoney on.
A deal is five years old,that's another thing.
Yeah, they're more bankable.
Yeah, well, I mean, do you?
How do you deal?
You must see a lot of thesebusinesses that are in that

(53:45):
position where the owners areaging out or they got health
problems or they're goingthrough a divorce and they're
not paying attention to whatthey got.
Yeah, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
with those people.
It's pretty rare, I mean it'snot common, it was.
It's uncommon because most ofthem have family or somebody
who's already in the deal.
So to have nothing with a planfor who you're going to give it
to right.
It's a pretty rare bird, really.
Okay, are there?
And business brokers?
Many times that's where youstart.

(54:18):
Is you look at business brokerswhere people are trying to sell
their business?
You're like what are you tryingto sell your business for?
That's a lot faster way to findthose than any other way that I
know.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, there's databases like SunTrust Business
.
You can get online and youstart.
I love those things, though Ilook at them all the time.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
I mean, if you list your business for sale, then
that's an act of desperationbecause you ain't got any way to
keep it right.
Yep, so I'm not going to saythat's a high likelihood that
you're going to like what yousee.
However, that's the best placeto mine it.
We're talking about mining,trying to find something, but
yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yep, well, this has been a fun conversation, it has
been.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I knew it, it went very rich, yeah, and I think
it's encouraging too.
I mean, how often do there isthis wall or this distance gap
between the entrepreneur and thebanker or banking system?
Right, they don't know me, theydon't, they don't, no, but
that's the value of thisconversation, is that our
audience can have a one-on-one,hear your story, hear your

(55:24):
perspective.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
The only stupid question is the one you don't
ask right.
True, and I learned that ingrade school.
Don't ask Right, and I learnedthat in grade school.
The fact is is that if youdon't have a relationship with
your banker and your lawyer andyour accountant, then you are
not going to be as successful asyou could be.
It's true, and if you don'tlike one of the three, you ought
to change them.
Yeah, is there?

(55:46):
Yes, because there's not.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
The only caveat to that is you need competent ones.
I'll tell you, because I've hadaccountants who didn't know
what they were doing Right, andI've had lawyers who will take
you on and don't really have theexperience in the area that
they need Generally speakingCompetence.
If you have one of those peoplethat you have competence in,
then they can give you the otherones.
That's right.
That's a good point.
That's right.
That's a good point.
That's right.
That is a very good point.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Recommendation from one of those for the others is
generally a good place to start.
It just makes sure it's not hiscousin.
You know what I'm saying?
You know?
You know this person.
You need to ask more questionstoo.
Yeah, that's true.
Don't buy everything you'regetting sold.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Well, I tell you what I think I mean.
There's so many things I'd liketo talk about with Gary.
He's got so many great storiesof entrepreneurs he's known and
mistakes and great decisionspeople made.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
We need to have him come back.
I'd love to.
I'd love to hear your foundingstory about Signature Bank.
I mean, that'd be really cool.
Be happy to.
Yeah, be happy to, because it'snot easy to start a bank.
No.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
But I'll tell you, when you raise $45 million the
first night on Dixon Street at abar, it's a pretty good way to
start a bank Says somethingabout your contacts and
relationships, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (57:01):
And trust people Exactly.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
You can say I love you.
When you get your checkbook out, it changes.
That's true.
Amen, brother, amen to that.
Thank you both.
And thank both of you for yourbusiness with me in the past,
and I appreciate it.
That's how we make payments atour house, you know as clients
like us guys.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
We love you and it's always fun dealing with you Well
same with you.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I appreciate both of you.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Well, everybody, this has been a great conversation
and next week we'll have anotherepisode of Big Talk About Small
Business.
If you are interested insponsoring our show, we'd love
to hear from you.
Don't come across desperate,mark.
No, I'm not.
Not, but it'd be nice it wouldbe.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Hey, I actually talked to a sponsor last week.
Wow, amazing, you didn't tellme.
I'm waiting until the check,okay.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Well, anyway, we'll see you all next week.
Thanks everybody.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about small business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk about Small

(58:29):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
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