Ep. 72 - Balancing Business & Family Without Losing Your Mind

As the frost settles in Northwest Arkansas, we kick off with a frosty tale that turns an icy slip into a hearty laugh. Ever wonder how some entrepreneurs keep their sanity intact? We unravel this mystery with a nod to John D. Rockefeller's relentless spirit and share how midnight musings often find their way into our phones. Business battles, productivity challenges, and the art of multitasking come to life through candid reflections and humorous anecdotes. If you’ve ever found yourself organizing your task list at 2 a.m., you’re in good company. Join us as we reveal the surprising blend of discipline and adaptability that propels entrepreneurial success.

Family and business are often a complex cocktail, and we’re here to spill the secrets of managing both worlds. From maintaining professionalism when hiring family members to understanding the value of spousal input in crucial business decisions, this episode is packed with personal stories and lessons learned. We explore the dynamics of working alongside loved ones, balancing nepotism with fairness, and the essential role of transparency and cooperation. By the end of our chat, you'll appreciate how these dynamics foster not only successful ventures but also harmonious relationships.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:03):
hey, everybody you turned on your freaking show.
Your show personality like thatbaby I.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
We got to get started here that's right eric and I
are talking about business.
Yeah, before we even start thebefore, we talk about business,
but anyway, um, that's what wedo.
Um, but we're here on anotherbeautiful day in northwest
arkansas.
It's gonna be in the 50s, it'sgonna be guys yeah, I need a
little warmth.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Man, I'll be real a little chilly this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I ain't gonna lie yeah, I don't doubt it, bud, I
slipped on my ass.
This is your posture.
Another night I walked out ofthis house that it's that we
bought it's next door to nextdoor and I walked down there
just to check to see that thefront door was locked and I
stepped off this walk.
Okay, I thought it was one stepand it was two and I went down.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Dude, I'm almost 67 years old.
You know it's funny, but it'snot funny.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I know.
But you know, I'm at the pointwhere, like you, fall down and
yeah, die, no, no, no.
That's why it's not funny to me.
Jill would not died.
I think he was like 68 hit hishead on the eye, yeah, but uh,
isn't it crazy?
It is.
But yeah, you need to becareful, bro.
Ah, anyway, I fell.
You know, the first thing I dois I call my wife.

(01:23):
I fell, honey, do you need meto come down there to get you?
No, I think I'll be okay, but Ifell.
So anyway, that night I woke upin the middle of the night and
my wrist hurts so bad.
Oh shit, I was like good God,it's my right wrist.
I'm going to be paralyzed.
I won't be able to do anythingtomorrow.

(01:45):
It's just so painful.
I got up.
When I woke up the next day, Iwas completely fine.
I'm like I cannot believe it.
I was in so much pain I thoughtI'd be crippled.
What am I going to have?
To?
Get?
A cast, go through PT orwhatever?
She woke up and you're good,okay, I was fine.

(02:06):
You know it's because you're afreaking machine man, dude, I
don't know about that.
But yeah, this, this ice, I'mready, I'm with you, I'm, I'm
ready to be warm.
Yeah, man.
So today's gonna be a beautifulday.
We're in northwest arkansas.
We were just talking aboutEric's new house project, this
building, which is exciting.

(02:27):
It's more than a house, it's acompound.
It's going to be the Howertonfamily compound and he's up on
this hill.
It'll be amazing.
Every time I go to the airport,I'm going to drive past your
house and I'll think of you.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I'm looking forward to what it's going to look like
in a couple years Because we'regoing to do a lot of trees, tree
roll right there.
That kind of blocks the road alittle bit, knock down the noise
, but it's going to be so niceLots more trees going up, man,
and native, native trees.
I know you don't get into thismuch, but I'm a big
environmentalist.
Weeds.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
I love weeds, giant weeds.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Hey, listen, here's the deal Native species of trees
and grasses and plants that aredesigned for our soil, our
temperature.
They're hardier, get bettererosion control.
Great for the insects great forthe animals.
Great for the water quality.

(03:25):
Great for the air.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Great for the animals , great for the water quality,
great for the air, great foreverything.
So you're going to have thismassive compound in freaking
Arkansas with weeds all aroundit?
Is that what you're telling me?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
There will be some weeds, like there's weeds
everywhere, but if you do native, it actually cuts down on the
weeds because you know why.
Here's the thing.
Here's what I realized, okay,after working on this compound.
So you say a lot of earth work,a lot of scrubbing and all that
type of stuff.
What I've noticed is is that ifyou grub the soil and you go
out and you put the fescue orbermuda, the non-native grasses

(04:07):
right, the weeds win.
Yeah, they come in, baby.
No, they do and they dominatebecause they're native, they're
freaking, unless you got someinvasive weeds.
But if you're the native,invasive weeds or native weeds
come in and dominate the cutelittle grass seeds that we have
if you weren't so cheap and youactually bought bermuda sod.

(04:29):
One of the great things about itis nothing gets through that
stuff well, so I, I have usedthe bermuda sod in my, in my
portions, but no, I have toestablish.
I understand you're right,though I get it, but the thing
is, if you go with nativegrasses and you see, I mean you
can start beating the weeds.
The whole.
The whole challenge is fightingweeds man.
It is, but weeds win becausethey're, because they're

(04:50):
freaking like dude.
I love this nasty clay dirtthat nothing can grow it.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Everything seems to grow here in arkansas.
I mean, our variety of plantspecies is mind-boggling.
Yeah, it is.
You know.
Like you go, go to Texas, 200miles away, and they have about
a third of what we have here interms of variety.
Oh, it's fantastic.
It's really different and Ilove the native trees.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
I mean, all that stuff is just going to flourish.
You're going to drive by andit's going to be Arkansas again.
Yeah, I don't want to get outof Arkansas.
Dude, listen, I'm differentthan you.
I don't like hearing my wifegets on to me.
She's like why don't you doanything around our house that

(05:36):
we live at now?
I'm like because it's tooeffing small.
It's too cute, it's too small,it's too perfect.
Let somebody else come in andweedy, cutely pick up the little
fake bark that we have aroundthe shrubs and clip the shrubs
and, you know, mow it down tothe perfect little inch and a

(05:57):
half.
I'm out.
I love that.
I don't do any of that.
I love all that.
I'm out of that.
But you give me a field and abrush, hog tractor dozer.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I'm not a dozer, I'm not qualified to be a dozer.
I don't know how you drive allthe stuff you've got.
You bought all that equipment.
I love it, dude.
Okay, I'm sure you have morefun with that.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Oh, dude, I was out there yesterday.
All right, dude, it's soescaping.
I, dude, it's so escaping, I goout there.
You know hard day yesterdaylots of meetings, a lot of yip
yap and then freaking.
I'm exhausted my brain's right.
You're in just just drivingcrazy, even getting pissed off
more and more throughout the day, because what we're talking
about earlier is nobody canunderstand what we were saying.
Yeah, you know, for over andover again.

(06:38):
Anyway, we'll get on that in asecond.
But so I go out and I'm like II'm going to take this mound of
base rock that I have down hereat the bottom, I'm going to take
it up to the top of the hill toadd a little bit more so I can
drive all the way to the edge ofthe hill in my truck and
overlook the beauty of Arkansas.
Yeah, you've got a beautifulsite, it's a beautiful view.
You're on top of it.
I needed like 20 more feet thatI had to be able to drive on

(07:01):
Sure.
So all be able to drive on sure.
So all I did yesterday forabout an hour and a half pick up
gravel, haul it up, go up, goback down.
I did, I did like I don't know10 or 12 loads like that.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
This dude is so great , oh, he is so wonderful.
You know, you don't really.
I, I don't think you're gonnahave much road noise as high off
the road as you are, not whenyou're up top.
Okay, you're not gonna havethat much noise, except for the
air brakes.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Or the rednecks that come by the Jake brakes.
Either the Jake brakes or theBilly old Billy Badass comes by.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
He's got the giant diesel dually with the
aftermarket exhaust on it.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, it's the exhaust, it's not the dually and
they just on it.
Yeah, it's the exhaust, it'snot the dually, and they just
rev it.
He had a dude.
The pop-back man came by youlove this Came by, picked up one
of the contractors at my placethat were working.
His car or something broke downso he had to get a ride.

(08:04):
This dude that comes and dropsthem off right to get them back.
His car or something broke downand so he had to get a ride.
This dude that comes and dropsthem off right to get them back
to his car it was like it had tohave been, I think it was like
5 o'clock in the evening, it wasin the summer Drops them off,
no big deal.
This dude that dropped them offcontinues to do just starts
peeling out right there on onthis on the highway, does like

(08:26):
four donuts.
It is a souped up hot rod likeyou know 1990 freaking transam
or whatever.
I mean just.
I mean just just tear it up,just wrap, just for no reason,
and then then almost runs offthe freaking embankment throwing
gravel right in my driveway.

(08:46):
Man, totally Complete,completely unnecessary.
But at the same time there's apart of me that goes that's
awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
You know, my last house in Boston.
I lived in Dover, mass.
I was right on the CharlesRiver.
My next door neighbor wasPierre DuPont V and the guy
across the street from me owneda shopping mall in Bangkok, just
to give you the idea of theneighborhood, anyway.
So I used to always hang out atthis one bike shop, you know,

(09:18):
motorcycle shop.
I'd go there at lunch and workon my bikes and stuff.
They did a lot of stuff it wasgreat with.
It would take me back, I couldjust escape for an hour, yeah,
and I had my own stand overthere and all it was just
awesome.
So they had this one guy, chuckchuck was like 28, you know,
total screw up, yeah, goodmotorcycle mechanic, yeah.

(09:38):
And so one night it's like 11,30 quarter to 12, and I hear
this in the evening, yeah, yeahin the evening, and I hear this
out in front of my house there'ssome guy out there doing
burnouts on his motorcycle, youknow.
And then like 15 minutes laterI get chuck chuck's texting me,
you know, did you hear that?

(10:01):
Yeah, I did.
Dude, hey, you're not cool,really class in the neighborhood
back to old, but kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, anyway, we got to talk about something serious
today yeah, our big, our bigtopic today is, uh,
entrepreneurship and family,basically, I mean, I forget what
we call it exactly, but yeah,that's what it's all about.
It's, uh, the official yourfamily and your business.
Yes, okay.
So that's a yes, that's a bigtopic.
I got a little history quotehere that I think goes along

(10:33):
with this, but it's not going tomake sense right off the gate,
but I think that as ourdiscussion goes on, it'll make
some sense.
One of my favorite quotes byany entrepreneur of all time was
by none other than John DRockefeller.
Right, I know you love him.
Yeah, I mean he's a champion.
Yeah, Period Right.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
But he said you're the John D Rockefeller of today.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Come on, baby.
You're just egging me on, dude.
He said I have trouble sleeping.
I have trouble going to sleepevery night with the amount of
debt that I owe.
Are you listening this morning?
Okay, because I know you can'tmultitask I am listening.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
He's got trouble sleeping because of his debt.
Yeah, I've been there okay.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
He says I have trouble going to sleep every
night because of the amount ofmoney that I owe other people.
Right, I think you gave us thisquote before I probably did,
but then I wake up looking toborrow more.
Yeah, isn't that beautiful.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
I love it, it's true, so but for does does midnight
heebie-jeebies that you get, oh2 am, oh dude it's always during
the night time.
The other night I woke up Iswear, just like you're talking
about.
It was like 2 am.
Oh, dude, it's always duringthe night time.
The other night I woke up Iswear, just like you're talking
about.
It was like 2 am, yeah, and Ijust started making lists of all
the things that I have to doand all the decisions that need
to be made.
That's a smart move.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So did you.
Let's just like so.
You're sleeping.
Of course you're beautiful whenyou're sleeping.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Oh, yeah, when you sleep, I know, no, yeah, you
know.
I mean you're beautiful like,you're an angel, like all 67
year old guys.
I got my flannel jammies.
Oh, you're looking good.
Yeah, right, obviously.
Yeah, the tops at least matchthe bottoms, but yeah perfect
man.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
So you're looking good, sleeping beautifully.
You wake up at 2 am, startthinking about all the stuff you
did, like literally what didyou do?
Did you?
Did you get up and out of bedand then go work on your task
list?
Did you lay there, get on yourphone and start adding?

Speaker 1 (12:28):
tasks.
Well, first off, I got upbecause, you know, being an old
guy with a prostate condition,you mean every time you wake up
you got to go take a leak, okay,thankfully I've got a urinal in
my master bath and I can justkind of lean against the wall.
Okay, I don't have to be tooprecise.
Um, so I'm sorry.
I'm sorry listeners, one of thequestions.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Then I went back to bed and sat there that way and
did my work and you but on, buton your phone, yeah, yeah, so
you just started writing downthe tasks of shit.
Yeah, get done.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, for the next day .
Yes, decisions that need to bemade and tasks that need to be
done.
Just a just in a bullet pointlist.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yep, just on your notes on your phone.
Yep, yep.
No sophisticated AI system.
No, just write the shit down.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
And then last night I just went back through and
re-edited my list of everythingI got done yesterday.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Did you check the things off?
Yes, I did, of course.
So when you check them off,does it auto go down and that
goes down to a completed taskthing?
Yeah, of course.
So you just have one notethat's just constantly being
added to and checked off.
That's right.
I just always find this soamazing.
Like to me, like the hardestthing about business is how do
you, how are you organized, howdo you do all the things that

(13:39):
you get done, plan to get themall done, but you're kind of
like this you have thisinteresting way of doing things,
like where you just knock itoff, like it's I didn't move
fast.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I do.
I mean I can make a decisionand I move fast.
I still can be there at 7 30watching, you know, um the
diplomat or the epi, if youhaven't seen the Billy Bob
Thornton show Landman, oh theLandman, yeah, I've been
watching it.
Oh, I figured you must loveBilly Bob Thornton.
Okay, I mean it.
But you know, yeah, no, I stillhave plenty of time to do all

(14:16):
the other stuff that I want todo.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
So but you watch shows and you do your list.
Yeah, you just kind of keepknocking shit off, absolutely
Dude.
I remember one time, a longtime ago, when I worked with you
this is why I'm white, yeah,and you were.
I mean, you'd always come in.
It's sitting in your office,right, and I'd already be there.
Of course I'd beat you in themorning.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, we were good.
I never should have let you go,but anyway should have chained
you to your desk but should havechained you to your desk.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's right.
But you come in and you wouldhave your computer, your big
desktop here and your laptop andstuff.
But then you you'd lean back inyour chair like this and you
just get on your blackberry andyou just sit there and just
start cranking off emails.
And I remember you'd alwayslike there'd be multiple times
this one time in particularyou're like oh my God, I have
350 effing emails.

(15:10):
What the hell is going on?
And you're just killing themoff.
You're sitting there and youwould tell me I don't know how
I'm going to get through withthis and you're just trying to
talk to me as you're doing it.
And then I pulled out my phoneand I started seeing an email.
I was like, does it bother youwhen you get so many emails?

(15:30):
And you get it and you go.
You reply back, yes, and I'mlike, and you hate it when
people respond to you and keepyou on reply?
You know, reply to reply to all, reply to all.
I'll reply back and ask youthat.
You know like, is thisbothering you?
I mean more times while we'resitting here, while we're, I
have to ask.
I mean, you got so freaking,you just got so irate about that
.
It was hilarious.
To me, though, it's funny towatch you react.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know you can get a lot done and I mean we're
going to talk today a little bitabout balancing family and work
and all, but I mean, just likethis morning, you know I get a
texting with Grant.
Yeah, jim is first thing everyday.
Okay, he's grand.
He's the first person I talkedto, usually the last person I

(16:13):
talked to.
Yeah, he's like.
We got this resume, check thisout.
You know, when we're lookingfor somebody in the business and
, um, we ran an ad yesterday andwe had a bunch of resumes.
They weren't very good, becausethis one looks really good.
I looked at it and like you'reright, contact her.

(16:34):
He goes.
Yeah, if you want to.
So, boom, I immediately sent anemail out to the woman like I'd
love to talk with you today.
And you know she responded andI've got that set up.
But I mean that was like inbetween the time I threw my
jammies down into the dirtyclothes laundry chute that we
have at our house just thegreatest feature there ever was.
It just drops your laundryright into the laundry room down
below.
And you know, and I had, and Iturned my shower on and waiting

(16:57):
for it to warm up, like andyou're on your phone tech yeah,
I'm not, I was not just on myphone.
I mean, I got the resume, Ilooked at the resume, I asked
grant if he wanted me to contactand I sent the email out before
I ever even got in the shower.
That all took place in about 75seconds.
It's beautiful, okay.
I mean people can do more thanthey do.
Yeah, okay, yeah, this, thiswhole idea of you know, well, I

(17:21):
do this one job and I can't doanything else.
I just had this conversationwith one of my former students
last night who owns a business.
Yeah, okay, and he's's it.
So he's had the business for,let's say, two years and he's
already trying to get out of itand hire manager and all these
other people.
It's like, well, I just want to, I just want to be the owner of

(17:43):
it while I work on this otherthing.
I'm like you can't too early.
Okay, I'm going to give yousome old man advice right now.
You can, can't do that.
That's a recipe for disaster.
Stepping out that early.
I said you need to do both ofyour jobs.
It's just the reality to it.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
You can do both of them and do them both well, hey,
I hate the fact of that, andyou've been there.
You know how many times I'vetried to kind of not do as much.
You know how many times I'vetried to not be engaged, not
participate in decisions and Istill, I mean that's like a,
that's kind of a, I don't know.
It's an interesting thing,seriously, like the thought

(18:22):
process that we have.
I guess it's baked into ourbrain through all the systematic
education.
All the big societal type of theculture, yeah, old type of the
culture, the culture, yeah, andyou you're beating your head,
you know, and youradvertisements that you see all
the time are people chilling,relaxing, enjoying life, taking
the easy path, all is well.
You're.

(18:42):
Take a pill for that, you takea pill for this.
You know everything's good.
It's just not the truth.
It's not, it is.
We are 100 in man From the dayyou're born to the day you die.
Damn it.
And whenever I get in thatmindset I'm like, oh well, cool,
that's how I'm supposed to doit, and so I've learned to go

(19:03):
that all the other shit is a lie.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
But, eric, here's the thing.
You don't need to do that youcould decide right now.
I'm never going to work again.
I'm going to live whatever waswithin my means, and I'm sure
yours would be pretty good.
Okay, as could I, all right,although I'm not as well off as
you are.
But we still choose.

(19:27):
We still choose to work likethat.
It's yesterday.
I was all day at this house.
We bought down the street,unscrewing stuff on walls and
cutting into drywall, lookingfor wires and stuff, and I'm
like why am I doing this?
I don't need to do this.
Why, and we put all this moneyinto it?

(19:47):
Should we really put all ourmoney into that?
It's a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Why do we?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
keep spending money on that, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Every time you spend more money on something, it has
more work for you to do, but thereality to it is it's the way
we're wired, is it?

Speaker 1 (20:08):
It is, we're going to keep working like that.
Look, here's the truth for ourlisteners, and you know this is
true.
And there's if you want to besuccessful, you must be a
obsessed with what you're doing.
Obsessed, super critical, notjust like I do it.
If I, you know, I do it becauseI have to, or I do it because

(20:30):
that's what I think I'm supposedto do.
You got to be obsessed, yeah.
And secondly, you need to putthe time in, yeah, okay, yeah,
it does take time.
And see, there will betrade-offs.
I mean, I don't know anythingelse, any other way to do it.
I'm going to be obsessed, I'mgoing to work my ass off and

(20:52):
there's going to be trade-offs.
Here's the thing, mark.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Okay, the reality is you're going to do that till the
day you die, because guess what?
That's who you effing are.
That is who you are, that'swhat your mark is on the earth,
that is your re-gift and yourresponsibility to your bloodline
.
I mean, like there's a like.
What's the point, honestly?

(21:18):
What is the point of living onthis earth and not doing
everything that you possibly canto contribute, to make things
better.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, to make things Like, do you?

Speaker 2 (21:25):
really think that you're designed and born here on
this earth so that you can justchill out bro.
Consume consume resources, justsuck up air, just chilling man,
just chilling, you know, tryingto always work hard to find the
easiest way and make Peoplearen't happy.
No, they're miserable.
They're not happy Because,guess what?

(21:46):
You're working for something.
That's a freaking lie and, bythe way, you were designed to
struggle just like every othereffing freaking insect, animal,
weed, sunrise, raindrop on theentire freaking planet.
And the truth, that's the trutheverything struggle.
That's why I love nature.
You know what I love aboutworking on the land.
You can go out there and youclean this.

(22:08):
Now, I'm not talking aboutfreaking shady valley, okay, and
I can say shady valley, which,because I live there I call it
shallow valley or shallow or no,but it's I see, right, yeah,
it's a beautiful gated, you know, whatever nice lawns like, I'm
not talking about that, but eventhen it's still some truth.
But you can go out in the woods,clear clean, take off.

(22:29):
You know, get limit trees,limit trees, take care.
I mean, you look at it's likedamn, that looks nice.
Yeah, I swear to you.
And then you come, you comeback two months later and it's
just like.
It's like all the weeds and thetears of branches are on the
ground, they're freaking.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I mean just so true, it's a constant state that
you're in Constant chaos,constant cleanup, constant
championship.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yes, he who works harder wins, and there's pride
in that, there's honor in that,there's legacy in that, there's
satisfaction.
There's satisfaction in thatGratification.
I get it.
It's hard man, like dude, likeliterally.
When we talk about work-lifebalance here, or integration,
this is literally how I kind ofthink of it.

(23:17):
Well, this is just the realitythat happens to me.
I work as hard as I possiblycan until I can't, right, and
then I take a break, right, andthen I come back and continue to
work hard.
It's like, exactly, it's kindof like training for a freaking
race.
You know, do you go out there?
Can you really run a good raceand win?
If you kind of you just walkthe mile, or do you have to jog

(23:40):
it?
And if you can't jog the wholething that one time, you still
have to do as hard as you haveto push and push and push and
push, yes, in order to win yeah,so you just work until you're
freaking tired, right like I'vebeen.
I've tricked myself, I've triedto balance things and I've tried
to take time off.
Only thing that I've found bytaking time off is that I become

(24:01):
worthlessly lazy and I startfalling into this pattern of
society that where I startseeing myself I'm like who the
hell am I like that?
Am I gonna wither and die here?
I'm just getting fatter, youget depressed.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I get depressed.
Just when we had all that stormand everything, I was just
laying around the house and oneday I like slept later because,
of course, I was up in themiddle of the night.
But I'm like, I'm just likewhat, why am I?
You know what's wrong with me?
This is terrible, terrible.
Okay, they got my butt back ingear and started getting stuff
done.
But yeah, yeah, you have to doit, man, it's, it's so true.

(24:35):
So, yeah, I mean you know thethe.
It's funny you say that becauselast night in the middle of the
night, again, I was up and Iwas responding.
Company I'm involved with, yeah,on the board, one of the owners
minor, minor of, but anyway,the CEO is texting me about our
banking relationship that wehave and you know I'm

(24:58):
immediately was sending outemails to respond to him.
The CFO and then a guy that'shelping us find a new bank out
there and uh, and so he's likewhat?
He's just God bless, what?
What are you doing?
She goes you're always on yourphone these days.
You know, I'm like this isimportant, we're down to

(25:20):
survival here.
Okay, that's when you kick inbaby, it's like I'm not gonna
wait.
What am I gonna wait till I getup and take my shower and then
go do my drive to deliver thekid to school, then go to my
podcast and then meet mycontractors.
Then maybe, if I remember, I'lldo it.
No, this is going to be dealtwith now, okay.

(25:41):
Boom.
It's not going to take meforever, though.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
No, no, it's not a big deal, okay so, on the
balancing with the family, yeah,here you are, crazy train doing
work in the middle of the nightand your wife like there is
something like you have tonavigate that I'm getting better
at navigating, sure.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
We're both on wife number three.
Well, okay, you're two.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I mean I get a little bitmore.
Okay, yeah, you're two.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I mean I get a little bitmore.
Okay, yeah, well, at least youmade a better decision on number
two, but anyway, I'll leavethat alone.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
But you know, there is something about, like there
is this tension between anentrepreneur who is living the
life that we're talking abouthere, of winning, you know, of
work for all the things that wetalked about.
Not because we're trying tomake things easier, we're
actually complicating things.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Exactly On a daily basis.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I can only imagine likeI frustrate my wife and like
literally all the time.
Honestly, if I'm going to behonest with myself and everybody
on the planet, if my wife is inthis I'm sorry, babe, I know I
frustrate you.
I cannot help it, though.
Sure, I cannot help it becausewe're always there's sin.

(27:00):
Every time I talk to her aboutany decision I'm making in
business like I actually had aconversation with her a couple
days ago about some importantdecisions she's like and her
comment was I don't like thatidea, because what you're
telling, what I, what I, what'sgoing to happen is you're going
to do that and that's just goingto open up opportunities for
more ideas that you have andyou're going to start something

(27:20):
else.
And I'm like no, no, no, babe,that's not.
You know that's not going tohappen this time.
You know that's not what I'mtrying to do.
But she's right, because that'swhat always happens.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Sure, like anytime that there's a little space,
you're going to fill it, andthen some, I know, I swear I did
, I get it a hundred percent.
But you know, I think we talkedabout this before on the show,
though, and we also did with ourspouses.
You know, your situation withyour spouse, and mine is totally
different.
My wife did own her ownbusiness.
Yeah, she came out of a familythat had multiple businesses,

(27:57):
yes, and she, she reallyunderstands, like she does not
complain.
Yeah, you know, and she canalso make a financial decision
very quickly without a lot ofdelay, which I love.
Yeah, like yesterday, I had toask her about something that

(28:20):
it's no big deal, but it washelping somebody out and
co-signing for a $200,000 loan,and immediately she said, yes,
there was just no hesitation atall.
Yes, we need to do that.
She has to make sure thatthere's some language in there
that the bank will release usfrom that guarantee that

(28:43):
co-signing when certain eventsoccur.
But I'm just saying it helps tobe with somebody who had that
orientation.
Oh for sure I can't say I hadprior to yeah, yeah, well,
certainly my last one, my firstwife.
She grew up with me from thetime we were 18, so she

(29:05):
certainly understood that stuffmore.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think that Tara's highly supportive.
She's my number one championsupporter.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
You have been, she is because you proved that you
were right.
Well, true, that does help yougive credibility with her.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
I do think that there's this difference of
personalities.
I think that we all kind of gothrough that.
Right, an entrepreneur doeshave a really different
personality.
Like I'd have a hard timefinding people that I can really
relate to in life in a lot yeah, especially in the business
sense like, yes, you know, I,like you know, I I'm.

(29:45):
I'm not a polished businessperson, I'm not a financially
astute, you know all thesedifferent things and so.
But that's also the same thingin personal things too.
Yeah, you know.
So when it comes to family andbusiness, you know you have to
be.
You know, I feel like that Ihave to navigate quite a bit and
and kind of bring myself downto not down, bring myself over

(30:10):
to a a realistic type of familyenvironment.
I have to see that and that'smy responsibility.
Yeah, no, I understand whatyou're saying.
If I don't, I'm like I'm way,way, like dude, I just don't, I
don't think about it, yeah, ever.
That's terrible.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
I love my girl.
No, listen, dude, absolutely,dude, I know you do.
I love my girl.
No, listen, dude, absolutely Iknow you do.
I love everyone.
Listen, and I've thought aboutthat too.
Sometimes that's terrible.
Am I failing as a father?
Yeah, am I not understandingenough?
Do I not spend enough time withmy children?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All the things that I think weall are probably going to think

(30:52):
at some point.
Yeah, but then I also realizedthis I had a conversation with
my 18-year-old daughter recently.
I don't know if I mentioned thison the show, but it was in the
last couple weeks and it was allabout taking risk and getting
ahead.
And you know, she was justcontrasting.

(31:19):
Like, you know, her mom's ateacher and her mom's husband is
a teacher.
Yeah, and you know they're.
They know what they're going tomake every month, right, they
know when they're off andthey're responsible.
Okay, I mean, they'reresponsible people.
It's not like they don't paytheir bills or anything like
that.
But you know, at the same time,I'm sure there's some level of
envy or thought, and not thatit's even been expressed to me.

(31:39):
Yeah, but like, why do theyhave so much?
Well for you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,and you know well, you know
they've got whatever.
All right, and this sort ofcomes across to the kids All
right.
And so, you know, I I had thisconversation with my daughter.
I guess the point I'm trying tomake is I told her that the only

(32:03):
way you're going to get aheadis if you take risks and you
work really hard.
Okay, yeah, I'm not.
You know, I don't have the jobwhere I stop at four o'clock on
Friday and then I'm just offuntil Monday and I don't even
engage at all.
Okay, you understand what I'mtalking about.
I said that means you know yougotta stay engaged.

(32:24):
You're, you're working.
There's things that come upthat you have to do, right, yeah
, and there's chances that youhave to take.
You don't take any stupidchances.
Yeah, you always think aboutwhat happens if this goes wrong.
Can I afford to lose that?
Or what's my plan B bailoutposition?
You know you're constantlymaking that decision, but at the

(32:45):
same time, you're investing inthings.
You're planting these seeds.
Everything's investing, it'sall about the investment and
when you have enough of those,something's going to work out.
Something works.
Something works.
It's inevitable.
The odds are in your favor.
This is what people don'tunderstand.

(33:09):
They think we take a lot ofrisks, but really we don't.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Actually we're making a lot of risks, but really we
don't.
Actually we're making a lot ofinvestments.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
We're minimizing risks by not being dependent on
this one thing.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
I love that statement .
That is such a good topicbecause that's where a lot of
the misunderstanding comes in.
You know, I mean like you know,I think from and here we are
listeners.
We're talking aboutentrepreneurs, right, we're not
talking anything about anybodyelse.
Negative pros, cons doesn'tmatter.
No, exactly Trying to reallyunderstand ourselves in the way

(33:43):
we think, because I'm with you ahundred percent, every single
decision that I make, every day,all day, I'm thinking of
investing, right, my time, anyresources.
Yeah, you know, like peoplewould call me lunatic because of
my equipment that I bought,guess what?
There are assets, right, youdon't say I know, I already know

(34:03):
that I'm not gonna get ahundred percent.
I'm that's not an F, it's not aa.
You know a graduating asset orwhatever I'm trying to say, an
appreciating asset.
I know that, I know that skidsteer is not going to return me
back more money, but what itwill do is it will hold value.
I get to use it.
I save the money on the time oflabor, of stupid shit that I

(34:26):
can do myself, like smoothingout, freaking gravel how
complicated is that it's not.
But it also helps me relax, itreduces my stress, all these
things, but I still have active.
Yeah, yes, it's productive, itgets things done, and then I
have something.
At the end there's an assetstill there and, by the way,
it's freaking 0% financing?

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, I know.
Why shouldn't you takeadvantage of?

Speaker 2 (34:50):
that, but that's a good example.
But everything that I thinkabout everywhere I go, I'm
thinking about that investmentthat's being made to minimize
risk in case shit hits the fan,in case that bank goes out, in
case this business sucks andfails, or that decision or some.
You know, there's alwayssomebody, there's always someone

(35:10):
or something coming after youto take what you got.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm telling you, you it's so true and and you know,
and, and it's funny you say thatbecause I was talking to my
students about that is the firstweek of classes and I said
don't get confused when it comesto debt.
That is for things that makemoney, as opposed to debt is for
things that are just pureconsumption.

(35:32):
Yeah, there's a big difference.
Okay, I've had a ton of debt atone point in my life, but it
was all stuff that was making memoney.
I mean I don't finance my cars,okay.
I mean I'm just saying I'm notthat.
I haven't ever.
Yeah, yeah, as I have in thepast.
Yeah, I don't, you know,because the cars don't make any
money, right.

(35:53):
I mean, you know, it's a, it'sjust a cost to appreciate.
Yeah, I mean like if you got thecash, use the cash but if you
can lease a vehicle for business, that's fine too, because
you're just paying for it,whatever.
But my point is like stuff thatmakes you money, yeah is worth
going in the hole for, yeah, orcould make you money, and
there's a big distinction there.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Well, that's a good point, Because debt like even to
the quote I gave in the verybeginning right that debt, that
conversation you have one personRockefeller, the husband who is
continuously thinking about newways to borrow more money and
then he has problems sleeping.
There is a wife in that storythat he didn't talk about.
Nobody talks, but there's awife there that is not

(36:36):
understanding what the hell andwhy he's doing what he's doing.
Yes, but he's borrowing more inand you might have to borrow
that debt to continue, like Idid use credit cards, whatever
the hell it took, because it'snot because I'm taking more risk
in, in, in, in living in debt,it's because I'm investing in my

(36:57):
business.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
You got across the goal line, didn't you?
That's exactly, it got youacross the goal line, but that
right there is for the payday.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
It is so it can be.
That's where the stress comesin between family and running
your business, because it reallyis.
How do you you as anentrepreneur navigate that like?
It's not an easy thing.
Like you, you know you'resitting there, I'm.
You know my case.
I was investing, investing,investing in business and
borrowing, borrowing more money,going more deeper in debt,
ridiculous interest rates.
But I've got to be able to eat,I've got to be able to do these

(37:27):
things that I need to take careof the family myself and
survive, and no one canunderstand that this business
that I'm over here just drowningin this blah blah, blah,
whatever it might be, and I'malways busy, like what we've
been talking about.
You're on your phone constantly.
You never are off, but you'redriving.
You know that is not a normalscenario.

(37:52):
Yeah, for what we've beentaught, how the bankers have
educated us on how you run yourfinances.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, to what the scholastic you mean you don't
always have six months worth ofoperating expenses in the bank
account, right?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
I mean, I love those things For all those Ks and IRAs
I love those.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's like how naive is that?
Yeah, insurance, who runs theirbusiness is a true entrepreneur
that's operating with sixmonths worth of cash in the bank
.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
It just doesn't.
If I had six months worth ofcash, I'd be like what the hell
am I going to spend that on?
To grow this thing Exactly?

Speaker 1 (38:26):
You're going to reinvest that Because your
return on invested capital hasgot to be high.
You don't want to let sit thereand do nothing for you.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Let's worthless money , unless I'm getting paid some
ridiculous interest rate.
But now I'm in the bankingbusiness, right, I'm in the
lending business.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Hey, even the high interest rates, nothing compared
to what you'll make on your ownbusiness, oh dude, your return
on invested capital People don'tknow it could be.
Massive Return on equity, ohcapital, people don't have to be
.
Massive return on equity, oh mygod.
Return on invested capital isreally what matters.
But yeah, just looking atreturn on equity, yeah, I mean,
I, the first 13 years of swagwhite, we averaged over 50.

(39:03):
Okay, for 13 years in a row,there's no interest rate that's
going to pay you 50.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
no, that's, that's absolutely no, no, and I don't
want to see.
If you look at the bestinvestments that have ever been
made, it's always been business,sure, you know?
I mean like it's always, andit's always the people that are
making that, that, taking thatsacrifice and driving that as
the entrepreneur but again,knowing, you know, just for our
listeners they don't know you aswell as I do you always live

(39:33):
cheap.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
oh, yeah, not have.
You did not have like needs,yeah, for ego gratification or
luxury, or you know it's statussymbols no, you just didn't
spend your money like that.
No, I mean, you were extremelythrifty all along.
Well, I was just putting itback in the business, yeah, and

(39:55):
that's what it takes.
Again, we're back to what itdoesn't take to be successful
balancing stuff with your family, and this is another thing.
Talking about family, you know,there's one way to be a good
parent, right, is you're alwaysthere.
You take your kid to everysoccer game.
You never miss whatever.
I think I actually did a prettygood job on that.
Yeah, thanks to having my ownbusiness.

(40:16):
That's one of the benefitsFlexibility, man, flexibility,
right.
However, I'm sure I could havedone a better job we all could
have.
But what we also do as parentsis provide an example.
What's the value of that to ourchildren?
It's the greatest.
The example of you can take ondifficult things and succeed.

(40:40):
Yeah, okay, it takes hard workto get ahead.
Yeah, okay, that's an examplethat I think our children need,
and maybe they don't get thatfrom all their other parents, or
our siblings, or the cultureyou know, or their friends.
We provide that.
So we're not all bad, I guess,is what I'm saying?

(41:03):
No, not at all.
We're, you know.
We're just different.
Yeah, we're different.
It's not about the money, it'snot.
The money is a byproductproduct.
Yep, it's absolutely abyproduct.
It's nice, but it's a byproduct.
But we provide an example toour children and we teach them,

(41:24):
um, that they can overcomeobstacles and they can achieve
whatever they set their mind to.
And you don't have to knoweverything to jump into
something.
No, you don't you know, just doit, you do it.
That's how you learn.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Best way to learn Do it Just do it, man, and I mean
that's such a good point becauseyou know, I think that when I
look at me as a father, you know, and how my contribution is.
I mean spending time talkingand giving them the real
education of life is like mybiggest contribution.

(42:00):
I mean it's not going to be anymoney, it's not going to be any
assets or whatever it is.
Yeah, and I try to articulatethis to the girls I'm like If I
would have been told some ofthese things when I was in my
teenage years.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
My dad was not good with this stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I don't think really any parents really are, but my
lesson learned is girls, lookshit's hard.
The hardest worker wins.
Work faster, longer, smarter orbetter.
I don't know which one, but oneof those four.
You should be able to thinkabout it any time.
Maybe two or three of thosefour.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
You'll really be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Exactly.
Be a hugely exclusive, be afreaking champion.
Quit complaining.
You're the one that has to facethat no one's going to be here
to save you is another great one.
No one told me those things.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Well, that's I know, unfortunately, I think I don't
know about your case, but youknow my kids, particularly the
younger ones, have had too much.
Yeah, yeah, okay, it's too easy, too easy, that's a big problem
.
The oldest one, you know, shewas there during a lot of the
struggle and it's absolutelypart of her personality.

(43:13):
She totally reflects that.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Why are we, as human beings, trying to make it so
easy for somebody else?
There's some deserving rewardfor that and there's not.
We want love.
We want love, we want it easy,we want it convenient, we want
to be safe All these thingswe're trying to act like the
fear doesn't really exist.
But what the result of a humanbeing with all that coddling is

(43:39):
the most is the worst type ofperson.
It's true, there's no honor inthem.
You know all those types ofthings, but I mean from a family
perspective, though I think,like what you know, what I would
, what my experience has shownme is that you have to know,
like and I messed up on this forfor the first 15, 20 years, I'm

(44:02):
still messing up, but what I'velearned is is that I am, I do
and I am a different thinkingtype person, which can drive
conflict if I'm unaware of who Iam.
Yeah, and it's not about metrying to change who I am or be
different or act different orcome down from wherever my

(44:23):
thinking is Like.
Actually, that's why I'm lovedis because I'm thinking this
goofy shit or whatever.
Right, it is real crazy a lot oftimes, right, you know, I mean
I don't understand it a lot oftimes myself, but it's about
being aware of that, that thatis like it's okay for me to

(44:44):
participate and I need to bemore conscious because it's for,
you know, it's for mypartnership, like my partner is,
and my family's supporting meand tolerating me a lot of
things, right.
I need to be able to returnthat in some way, right, and I
think that, um, well, you know,I think that that's like, if
you're unaware as anentrepreneur, you're going to

(45:04):
find yourself in a lot of weneed to be understanding of them
absolutely they need to beunderstanding of us.
Yeah, I I'm tolerant of thisreally is what.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, it comes down to yeah, there were a couple
other things they wanted us totalk about here, evolving family
members in your business.
I'm just going to speak aboutthat for a minute because I know
I always had a no nepotismpolicy.
The first time I owned mycompany, yes.
The second time around, youhired my oldest daughter as a
part-time writer.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yes, okay, yes, she was getting her English degree.
Super talented, freaking, hardworker.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
She got that and then she ended up she had a real
estate license and her horsefarm and then she went and got
her MBA and then she ended upworking for the company
full-time in an MBA job, allright, and she did that for 10
years.
A couple of years ago she leftand went full time into her own

(46:01):
horse business.
But my point of all that is,you know, she felt bad when she
wanted to leave, that she waslike letting me down.
Yeah, like, what are youtalking about?
Yeah, like what are you talkingabout?
Yeah, I think for years,truthfully, I was so conscious
of the fact she was my daughterand I never wanted anybody to
claim that she got something shedidn't deserve.

(46:23):
I probably did not treat her orreward her as highly as I should
have.
Oh sure, I went the oppositeway.
Some parents do the opposite.
They take their kid their kid'san idiot, not a hard worker.
They promote them.
They make them the boss ofeverybody.
Everybody hates that person.
Okay, they're a huge moraledrain on the company.

(46:45):
Maybe even they ruin thebusiness.
I didn't want to do that.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I really didn't.
You were constantly consciousof that.
Oh gosh, when it ends up.
Probably like she did notprobably did her a disservice.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, it's true and truth, and I had no, when she
wanted to leave and do her ownthing.
I'm like absolute.
She thought I'd be up.
I'm like, I'm not upset withyou at all.
No, this is your life.
You have to do what you want todo.
You're not letting me down?
Yeah, in any way, shape or form, but I do think parents need to
think really hard before theybring their kids into their
business.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I've had, um, a couple of my girls
you know work for, yeah, forpodcast videos, part-time sure
you know, and but but there islike like what I've done in that
situation is like I'm you needto go interview with so-and-so,
they'll hire you, they work withthem 100%.

(47:38):
Don't talk to me, I'll see youwhen I come walking in.
You know what I'm saying?
Right, a lot of space betweenyou and them.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, I think that's good, for sure.
Yeah, but your girls, they'renot going to come in here and
start like berating and somebodyelse or act like, well, this is
my dad's company and I'msuperior.
No, they wouldn't do that.
Yeah, some people do that.
Yeah, that's bad and that'sreally bad.
You can't let your kids dostuff like that.
It's just very harmful tomorale.

(48:10):
I think a lot of companies youknow the majority of businesses
in this country are familybusinesses.
They employ more than onefamily member in the business.
It's like 90%.
It'd blow your mind if yourealize how high that percentage
of businesses are familybusinesses in the United States.
But you know, I do think youneed to be thinking hard about

(48:34):
what those roles are.
Are you putting people inmanagement positions that are
unequipped?
What's the effect it has onyour other employees?
At the same time, you know youwant to give your kid the chance
to learn something from you andbe involved with the business.
But it's got to be anappropriate role, yeah, and
they've got to act appropriate.

(48:55):
Or it's got to be anappropriate role, yeah, and
they've got to act appropriate,yep, or it's going to be a
problem.
The other issue is husbands andwives that work together in the
business, and I've experiencedthat too, although really not
not until recently, you know,but that can be very challenging
.
Oh sure, and I think you knowwhat I've learned there about
the people who've done thatsuccessfully it always means

(49:17):
that you have very distinctroles with no overlap you have
to, in the inflate of each other, own those roles and trust.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yes, just like having a business partner.
Yes, you can't have a businesspartner and not be trusting and
agreeable and accommodating andlistening and what all that type
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
And the worst thing again, Ithink, is where somebody owns a
business and then the spousecomes in and they're not
involved with it, but then theystart acting as if they're the
boss oh yeah, Like they'remaking the decisions.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, that's very toxic.
Yeah, that would be toxic.
It is Toxic, toxic.
The other one was the emotionalimpact of entrepreneurship on
family.
Yeah, like, I mean.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
The ups and downs, the ups and downs.
I think it's the instabilitythat we create.
Sure Is the problem.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, sure is, is, is is the problem, yeah, and I
think that that really just.
I mean, like you know, todayit's much better than what it
was.
You know, you know, I don'tknow, man, part of me is like, I
mean, let me, can I be honest?
Yeah, please, of course, Ithink what you know, I think,

(50:33):
like in my experience, like inall honesty as an entrepreneur,
I would recommend and this iswhat I have done and I still do.
I don't talk about everything.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
You know what I'm saying?
Yes, I understand, because itputs a burden on people.
They don't have the same makeupyou have.
I don't walk in the house, I'vebeen guilty of that?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
No, I have too.
I've been guilty of that.
Yeah, no, I have too.
I figured out that that wasn't,but I don't walk in the house
carrying my business shit.
Yeah, there is, and I mean,maybe that's a unique thing,
because I don't think thateverybody does that.
Right, I've gotten better overthe older I got.
I definitely did that like whenI'm around them, my family yeah,

(51:19):
I really don't.
I don't, I don't talk about it,I don't share things that are
going on.
Yeah, if I'm asked about, I'malso pretty cautious about how
far I go into it.
Yeah, you're smart.
Well, because because I, likeyou, can there's a lot of things
that can trigger, first of all,business.

(51:39):
The reason why we are so busyand overwhelmed and constantly
work is because there's alwaysmore shit that needs to be done.
There's not enough time to dowhat we do.
And so if you have a littleproblem seemingly a little
problem in business, there's notan easy, one bullet point
answer to it.
You just need to do A and Bwill happen.

(52:00):
It's never that simple.
And so if you're talking aboutyour business or your family and
you bring up anything like well, we had to borrow $20,000 more
to cover payroll, to you as anentrepreneur, you're okay
because you know what you'redoing, you're investing all the
time.
Everything's going to be allright because you're going for

(52:21):
it, right, right, but to yourpartner, they're like holy shit.
I know you just borrowed moremoney for that.
When is that going to?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
I mean like they don't have the same frame of
reference.
No, they can't have the sameframe of reference.
No, they can't have the samepersonality.
I've I've been guilty of thatbefore.
I mean I think it's a fine line, though at the same time, yeah,
you also need to try to educatethem, of course.
Yeah, if you totally insulatethem and they have absolutely no

(52:48):
sense of any of this, thenmaybe they'll go waste resources
, or maybe they won't.
They, maybe they won'tunderstand this when they get
older.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I mean I, I,so it is, there's a fine line.
I definitely was too far towarddumping everything out when I
was younger and and I'd be muchless inclined to do that today.

(53:12):
Yeah, yeah, you got to navigatethat but, but it is kind of
funny, you know, like there wassomething one of my kids said
and I'm like no, we we're just,we can't afford that, we're not
going to spend our money likethat.
And then so we were at thedinner I think it was Christmas
Eve or whatever and I had the,my extended family and brother

(53:32):
and sister-in-law and I can'tremember who all was there, and
I'm like you know, give me thebill for it, because I always
get the one that gets the bill.
I mean, you know that isprobably as your kids get older
you'll find that's the case.
Oh, I get.
No, it doesn't matter how manyof them there are.
No, I get the bills, you'regonna get the bill.
And and especially if you feellike you know employees, you
know they're struggling to getby or whatever yeah, you know

(53:55):
what I mean.
So, yeah, you know, and one ofmy kids, like dad, are you sure
we can afford that?
You know what I'm like.
Yeah, yeah, I go.
You don't want to say that here.
First and secondly, yes, we can.
This is true.
This 400 dinner, whatever five,it's not gonna break us, don't?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
worry about it was the other thing.
For the reason that you'rewanting to get it right right,
there's no investment to whatyou're wanting.
There is no return.
At least you know what I mean.
At least, if I buy the family'sdinner, there's investment into
the family.
Right that?
That's what I think.
I always think an investment.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
It is, but I'm just saying that's the illustrates
kind of what you're saying.
It's like you say anything tothem.
They don't have the full frameof reference and they don't
really they could cause themundue stress, absolutely that
that you know that the same time, I do want my kids to be
conscious of not just wastingand thinking, oh my God, it's

(54:59):
just like because again, I meanI go back and I'm not trying to.
You know, I don't want to sayanything bad about any prior
spouse I had.
Yeah, I think, sure, withsomebody who has zero
entrepreneurial background andzero entrepreneurial history or
education provided to them bytheir parents, is that they

(55:24):
don't understand.
They think, you know, at leastmy experience was they think
you're either rich or you'repoor.
If you're rich, you buyanything you want, anytime, and
if you can't afford that, whatare we what?
No, there's this huge swath inthe middle, you know what I mean
.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
You might be poor today, you may be rich tomorrow.
You may be rich today and poortomorrow, but if the
entrepreneur understands thatand just basically, you
basically adapt and navigatethat time period.
That's all you do.
Yeah, like dude, I love itwhenever like it's like it's
time for you know, it's likesurvival time to tighten up.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I love the time.
I mean, you do better with adeadline, don't you?
Oh God, dude, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I'm the worst.
I mean, I understand that, youknow it has I have to know that
meeting time and then I workright before.
But I do really good work.
You know it's like holy work.
Under pressure, dude, I do man,I'm like holy shit.
I got a lot of shit done.
You know.
Otherwise, I'm just kind of.
You know I can flounder, Iunderstand totally.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I had our editor this white letter say to me last
week.
It's like you know.
I said I'm sorry, this is late.
I got it through at like one inthe afternoon instead of like
eight in the morning, nine whichI typically would.
She goes, you know, if you everhave a problem, you can't get
this done.
You know you can tell me andI'll pull out an old, we'll dust
off an old article or whatever,and I said it's not going to

(56:47):
happen, I will get it done.
I will always get it done,unless I'm like dead or sick.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Even if I'm sick, I'll probably get it done.
Dude, I've seen you so sick.
I was thinking about the otherday we went up to I can't
remember where we were Chicago.
We went to Chicago for thatacquisition thing a long time
ago and when we fly from thereto there, from Northwest
Arkansas, you're like man, Idon't feel too good.
You know, by that evening whenwe get you were so freaking sick

(57:20):
.
I don't even remember this, Iknow you don't, but we were at
the hotel and like, I mean, likedude, you were down at like
eight o'clock that night and Imean, and then the next morning
we had to be there at like youknow 6am or whatever.
It's's early in the morning andI mean, dude, you were so
incredibly sick, like you hadfull-blown, freaking head flu

(57:42):
but you powered through, dude,it was so impressive.
Like you were up.
I hope I didn't get everybodyelse sick and you probably did.
Oh my God, like you know, thatwas pre-COVID.
That was before we were allaware of how people can get sick
from each other.
No, kidding.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
I'm sorry if I did that.
No, no, I mean I thought it wasbeautiful, but anyway, yeah,
it's a tricky path we have tonavigate with our families.
It is.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
It's just sensitive, right, and I think that you, as
the the entrepreneur, being theperson you are, if you're a
business owner, you're starting,but if you never started one,
you're about to start one youneed to know, recognize the
sensitivity of that and andcooperate and work through that
like you can't be ignorant of it.
That's the big thing.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I was ignorant as shit about it, yeah, how I was
behaving and how I think incomparison, and I, and I do
think if you're going to have agood relationship with your
spouse, you do need to let themknow when you're taking risks or
making commitments that couldimpact them.
I mean, I think it's only fair.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, totally.
You know, yeah, without.

(58:50):
Without is what it?
You know, yeah, what?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
obviously it just says yeah, hopefully you know,
like I'm always afraid duringthe show that I'll say some shit
that people you know won'tcompletely understand, yeah,
misinterpret, yeah for sure.
Like I mean, I absolutelytalked to my spouse.
I've learned to even become andI'm still getting better but
become even more transparent upfront about things.
That, and mainly because I'verecognized like she is a really

(59:14):
excellent, she has greatperspective 100, and there's
been so many times I should havelistened and there's, you know
I'm trying to I feel the sameway about I mean, there's it's
just, it's wonderful, such goodinstincts about yes told, oh
dude.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Character judgment, yeah, it beyond always better
than mine, 100% More skeptical,and again, I hate to generalize
about women.
People will be upset with mewhen I say this.
They are more skeptical, Ithink, because they have been
hit on for lack of a better wayto describe it and they're

(59:52):
constantly making that descript,that judgment, that
discrimination when they'reyoung.
They have to be discerning.
Exactly they have to bediscerning.
I was never hit on.
I know me neither.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I mean it was like if I was, I would have never known
it.
You know, no, but it's.
But that's a good, that's agood point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
They get approached yes, they get approached and
they've got to be discerning.
I think that's a good point.
They get approached.
Yes, they get approached, andthey've got to be discerning.
I think that's a very good wordand that generally makes them
better judges of character thanmen.
100%.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Okay, 100% yeah, because there's been times where
my wife's been like I don'tlike him.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Oh, I know my wife's.
The same way I do not like him.
I'm not going to say there wassomebody, same way I do not.
I'm not gonna.
There was somebody, that's cool.
There was somebody we both know, whose name I won't mention
here.
But my wife said oh my god,don't ever leave me in a room
with that person alone.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Terrible okay, and I'm totally blind evil, evil
yeah, I'm like what he said.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
He thought he was okay.
He's cool as hell man, he'sokay.
We're talking about going intobusiness together my ex-wife too
.
I remember one guy came tovisit me he was the chairman of
this company and he is prettymuch a degenerate, I will admit
and my wife said to meafterwards she said, don't ever

(01:01:10):
bring that guy back in our houseagain.
Wow, okay, very successful guy,yeah, and you want him back in
the house.
I don't know if I wanted himback in the house, but it's like
don't ever bring that guy inthe house again.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Well, I mean not after she said that, yeah, but
you wanted it.
I mean, like you know, becauseyou're trying to do business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I was trying to help him out.
Now, oh it's but.
But uh, yeah, I mean it.
You know, sometimes our spousesare are good judges of
character and we do need tolisten to them absolutely and
they're intelligent and they seethings differently than we do,
and that's value some insight Ilove it and it helps bolster my
confidence too in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Man, I mean that's, you're right.
I mean like, especially, likeyou know, if I have an idea and
I tell it to her and she's,she's got some skepticism or or
some combat, combative dialogueagainst it.
Yeah, not, you know.
But or I guess what would yousay?
Some, you know, just someresponse, just challenging,

(01:02:10):
challenging.
Yeah, you know, I'll get pissedoff at first, because my idea
is always fantastic.
No, but there's value in thatright.
Then I realize after the carI'm like, yeah, damn, that is
really great.
And then now I'm balanced, Imake great decisions, and then I
have confidence when I walk upthere and I go, this is the
decision I'm 100% decisive about, there's like I feel very good.
And if it doesn't, work out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
You can always well, you told, well, you told me.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
This is not my fault, this comes into our pure
narcissism, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
No, it's true, it's true.
Well, hey, good show.
It is a good show.
We got to wrap it up.
I feel better about myself andmy family.
Wait, good, I'm glad you do.
We need to wrap it up.
I I've got such a busy daytoday.
I guess you don't want to spendany more time with me.
I'd love to spend time with you, but I can't.
I've got a 1045 AM Zoom call.
I've got to get on.

(01:03:00):
I've got to get back home.
It's been great being with youtoday.
This has been another funepisode of Big Talk about
Small-ass.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Business.
Thank you, people.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
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Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small

(01:03:44):
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