Ep. 74 - How to Build a Customer-First Culture

Have you ever felt adrift after stepping back from work, unsure of your purpose beyond your professional life? Join us as we explore this sensation and how the fulfillment found in meaningful work can bridge that gap. Reminiscing about the good old days of BlackBerry phones, we draw parallels between the evolution of communication tools and our ever-changing societal norms. This episode lays the foundation for future discussions with special guests, where we'll question the traditional paths of career success and uncover the essence of entrepreneurship.

Picture this: you're grounding yourself in nature, walking barefoot, and enjoying the primal pleasure of drumming by a fire. Balancing work and leisure can be that rejuvenating. We discuss the philosophy of "work hard, play hard," sharing personal stories of the joy found in projects that yield tangible results, like restoring cars or mastering the nuances of motorhome maintenance. Even after retiring or selling a business, these activities offer a sense of fulfillment and growth, reinforcing the idea that hard work makes leisure all the more rewarding.

In the latter part of the episode, we unravel top business strategies with a focus on exceptional customer service as a cornerstone for success. A cultural approach to proactive engagement and quality customer care can set a business apart, transforming customers into loyal fans. We dive into the world of Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems, highlighting how tools like Salesforce and Pivotal can enhance customer loyalty and reduce churn. By sharing anecdotes and experiences, we underscore the continuous journey of improvement in customer service, urging business owners to prioritize seamless communication and responsiveness to nurture lasting relationships.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I wanted to have a little bit of a different break,
a little change, a littlechange, a little dress, yeah.
But it was really worse thananything I've imagined because,
like it was, you're purposeless,you're rudderless, yeah, man,
and then you can feel yourselfdrift off into this
worthlessness.
Yes, you know, I could see itcoming pretty quick.

(00:21):
But I mean, but getting back onthe ship, man, and like put in
the hours monday through friday,heavy and hard, like how hard
can I go?
Yeah, and the weekend seems alot more beautiful mark.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Let's do a show mark In a second.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Bang Editors, please keep this clip right here.
This is important.
We just witnessed Mark Zweigusing his phone to type a long
message, which is you werealways.
It was amazing what you coulddo on that BlackBerry.
I wish I had those back.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
You were so good at BlackBerry.
You know what, though?
The other day I was moving somestuff around in my office.
I have every BlackBerry I'veever owned, do you really?
I have all of them.
Bring them up.
Bring them up to the next show.
Let's look at them.
I'm going to make a display inmy house, though I don't know
enough about them to know likewhich is the earliest model, but

(01:37):
I want to display themchronologically all the way
through.
I've probably got at least 15or more of them.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I used to burn those things, dude.
You did man.
I mean you rub off the freelike you didn't even see the
letters on them.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, they're all rubbed off.
Fred White's the one that gotme into that.
He got the first Blackberry andI'm like, what do I need that
for?
Of course, fred also got usinto email.
I'm like, what do we need emailfor?
He was always.
He always knew what the hellwas going on.
But hey, it's good to be herewith you, buddy, that's right.
We're back with another episodeof Big Talk About Small Business

(02:18):
.
Yes, I can't.
I'm embarrassed, I don't knowwhat that is.
You kind of look like MitchMcConnell when you do that.
I'm sorry that is.
You kind of look like MitchMcConnell when you do that.
I'm sorry, no, but anyway,sorry.
So we're back again withanother episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.

(02:38):
We're here to talk aboutbusiness.
Yeah, we've got an excitingconversation today.
We had a good meeting beforethis show, going over our list
of guests that we're going to bebringing on.
Absolutely, it was cool, whichis very exciting, although I
never get tired of talking toEric, but it will be good to
have some other people here wecan harass yeah, for sure, and

(03:00):
ask them hard questions.
Yeah, make them feeluncomfortable.
Yeah, get the truth out of them, that's it, baby.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, we need more truth.
You know, I was actuallythinking about this just the
other day.
Like I don't know, do you havethis experience where, as you
get older which I know thatyou're not that old but as we
get older, like do you not startgoing, like, why was I taught

(03:27):
that way?
Like, how did I not realizethis until I'm, freaking, 40
years old, 45, 50?
I didn't get taught a lot ofbad stuff, I don't know.
But I mean, like the like youtalk about truth, right.
Like I mean, like we, you don'tget taught that much truth.
Like I'm talking about theeducation system okay, it's what
I'm kind'm talking about.
The education system, okay,it's what I'm kind of talking
about.
And then just the environmentof civilization Like yeah, like,

(03:50):
like things, like be reallyjust be kind and everything
works out well, yeah, EverythingI learned.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
no, I learned in kindergarten.
Yeah, Whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, don't.
Don't let the fear motivate youRight.
Let the fear motivate you right, or?
You know right.
Or, if you get it, this is theright pathway in life, like go
to school, do good work, studyhard, get a degree and then you
get a good job and then thecompany's going to take care of
you and then, you retire andeverything's happy and peaceful.
You know, I mean like likeconventional wisdom.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
I mean, like conventionalwisdom, that's what I'm talking
about, the cultural sort ofaccepted norms or expectations.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Because if you do look at before, really when you
think about business, it's kindof weird that entrepreneurism
and this talk about doingbusiness, right, that it's like
this new thing and it's not newat all.
It's actually just what itreally is.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
It goes back to the dawn of man, dawn of man, man,
I'm going to have a farm thatputs out more carrots than the
dude next to me, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean the fact that we even have to have this show
to talk about entrepreneurism iskind of ridiculous in a way,
because but what happened, ifyou really look at it like in
the late 1800s, all the waythrough the 2000s?
You have big corporations thatkind of took over and everybody
just became laborers or workers.
Yeah, high management companies, true, yeah, you know, and so

(05:23):
we kind of forgot over a centurytime period that we're all
actually in our blood right, aresupposed to be figuring out how
to survive and build a businessand make your own, and it's all
your fault.
You're 100% accountable.
You're gonna go broke.
You know.
You're at threat and jeopardyall the time.
You gotta.
If you don't freaking make youearn your money and your dollar,

(05:44):
then you're not going to eatand then, if you don't eat,
everyone's going to die.
You know, like I'm saying, it'slike that threat has always
existed until big corporations.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, that's true, but I mean, you know, most people
don't realize there's somethinglike over 35 million small
businesses in the US.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yes, that's almost one out of every 10 people.
Right, okay, but they're crazy.
But to that statistical point.
It should be nine out of ten.
It used to be nine out of tenyeah, no, you're right.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I mean, everybody was doing their own thing.
I'm a blacksmith, I'm a farmer,I'm a hunter, whatever.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, man, you had you had to eat and kill me.
Yeah, right, but our societyhas and like, so I think that
you know because turned us allinto ants.
Well, they're serving the queenWell, but like, if you're
listening to this show, right, Imean, I can't tell you the
amount of people I've talked tothat are like, have this desire
and it's like they want to beout on their own but they don't

(06:39):
know how to break into it.
And it's really a simple answerLike, just do it Right, break
into it.
And it's really a simple answerlike, just do it right.
It always is yes, you know, butnow we we've made it to where
now we professionalizeentrepreneurism.
Yeah, you gotta have this andthen you gotta have that, and
then you gotta freaking.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
You know, you gotta do all you gotta do the lean
canvas approach to test themarket viability.
That's the minimum viableproduct.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Have you studied the market cap opportunities and
what's the total count?
You're like I don't don'tfreaking know, man, but I can
tell you right there, likethere's an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I agree with you.
I mean, it's like I tell mystudents all the time not
everything requires hypothesistesting and MVPs.
We know we like good pizza.
Yeah, okay, there's no questionabout it.
Right, I don't need to test themarket to see whether or not
there's a need for another pizza.
If they make freaking, reallygood-ass pizza, I'm going to

(07:30):
sell a shitload of it.
Exactly Okay, just be different.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, study your competition.
If you go to a pizza joint andyou think their pizza sucks and
I can make better pizza, thenyou should probably start a
pizza joint.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
You know the demands there.
Yeah, yeah, so it doesn't haveto be so calculative.
No, you're right.
I mean, I hear exactly whatyou're saying.
It makes a lot of sense.
That was my history lesson forthis.
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
I've been watching a show on Idon't know what it's where, but

(08:02):
it's all about the earlypioneers of america, and I just
watched one the other night onjp morgan.
It was very interesting andseeing how these guys you know
well, you know speaking, theymade it and got into it.
You know his dad was superconservative banker.
Um, he's an american bankerliving in england.
I didn't realize that and JPcame back over to the US to make

(08:26):
his mark.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, to basically separate himself from that, I
guess, to break out on his ownand do his thing, be a maverick,
yeah, he got his dad all upsetmany times with various things
that he did, you know but I meanspeaking of what we just talked
about.
He was one of the initiators ofbig corporate America.
Oh, he did you know?
But I mean he.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I mean speaking of what we were just talked about
he was one of the initiators ofbig corporate America.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, if so, he was ineverything.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, the guy got into absolutely everything, yeah
, I mean, and grateful to hisentrepreneurial spirit, but what
it did kind of cause was thissnowball of professional
organization, which I'm notsaying anything negative about
that.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I'm just trying to Just professional management
applied to all these industries.
That all you know.
It did Fragmented yeah, itworked.
Yeah, well done yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
No kidding, but the perspective of that is the way
to go and, you know, is new.
Yeah, still the day.
And now we're having to shiftour brains back over to a little
bit more about, a little moreprimal right?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, I'm sure you do.
You're one of those guys thatwould go out in the woods and
beat on drums with other guys orsomething right?
Have you ever done that?
I want to.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Around a fire.
Yeah, yeah, I've done that.
Done it by myself.
Yeah, I've done that.
Then, if I'm a soul, I'mlooking for other people to do
it, so I may have started apodcast show about that Just
about beating drums and eatingfish out of the river, like
crawling around barefoot soyou're grounded to the dirt.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, dude, we need that.
There's a magnetic force likethat.
My wife's telling me that.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
You need it.
Do you not walk around withyour bare feet on the earth?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
No, I don't walk around like that.
You need to.
I don't want to get worms orstep in, you need worms and you
need some cuts.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Okay, you need some tetanus.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wrong mark.
We got to get on this show,eric.
Okay, let's pull a topic out ofthe hat here and see what we've
got today.
Okay, we're gonna stay on onpath.
It sounds good.
Okay, sam has organized us.
She has.
Oops, I'm trying to get one ofthese.

(10:40):
Okay, let's see what this onesays.
It's like a fortune cookie.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Work hard, play hard.
Now I love it.
Yeah, that's you, I love that.
That is you, Dave.
That's the mentality that Ithink you should have to have,
Because you can't play hardunless you work hard, and you
can't work hard unless you playhard.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Man that's true.
You can't really enjoy it ifyou haven't worked hard.
That I know.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So I've had the experience of when I wasn't
working too hard and I wasplaying harder than I was
working and it was not verysatisfying.
Yes, exactly, I totallyunderstand that.
You know, I mean they're myselfLike, if you, you know, there's
been a little bit of period,yeah, you know.

(11:31):
And here recently, after wesold the company, where exactly
what I was thinking of, where Ikind of tried to, you know, I
mean like I don't know, I wantedto have a little bit of a
different break or change alittle change dress, yeah, but
it was really worse thananything I've imagined because,
like it was, you're purposeless,you're rudderderless, yeah, man
, and then you can feel yourselfdrift off into this
worthlessness.
Yes, you know, I could see itcoming pretty quick.
But I mean getting back on theship, man, and put in the hours,

(11:55):
monday through Friday, heavyand hard, like how hard can I go
?
And the weekend seems a lotmore beautiful it does.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
It's like if you want to enjoy the sun, you've got to
have some rain, kind of thing.
Exactly right, you know?
Yeah, otherwise you don'tappreciate it.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, and I mean I don't know about you, but
anybody that I've seen that'sretired, like most cases.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I mean just really fast, just you know, I mean they
just start, start, they lose itpretty quick man well, the
couple times in my life where Ihad like a big sale and I didn't
really have to work for a whileor whatever, yeah, I, I like
you said.
I mean I didn't last very longI started immediately committing
myself to one thing afteranother, not all profitable,
mind you, but neverthelessthings I was interested in or

(12:44):
wanted to do.
Yeah, it's just natural, Ithink, for some of us.
But yeah, it's true, work hard,play hard makes a lot of sense
to me.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And I think the play hard is a big thing too.
I mean like you got to, youknow.
I mean like if you rest toomuch, you know.
I mean like it's, it's notreally that good for you either.
Like you got.
You got to get, you got to makeplans.
You've got to just get outthere and get it done.
And I mean and be productive.
I've kind of actually foundmyself recently.
My play hard is a lot differentthan what it used to be.

(13:17):
Yeah, Like, what I love doingis my play hard is still working
, but I'm working on personalthings.
Yes, Like whatever, but I cansee it getting done there's
asset building, you know 100%.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I'm absolutely with you.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Everything that I'm doing at all times has some sort
of fruit attached to it.
I'm laboring, I'm toiling theland.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
It's funny Constantly .
Yeah, I know you are, and thatis very gratifying.
I like some physical workmyself.
That leads to something youknow I used to restore bikes,
cars, houses.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Same thing, it's the same.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
You're working on that asset, improving the asset,
and you gain out of it.
I tell you, the last severalweeks I've been trying to figure
out everything on thismotorhome and just dealing with
the winterization andunwinterization.
I told my wife yesterday I amso expert now I think I could
winterize it or unwinterize itin less than 10 minutes.
But it was a challenge.
Yeah, Just finding everything,getting the right advice on how

(14:18):
to do it, the tools I needed,the little helpful things like a
little connector that goes onmy water heater so I don't have
to pull the drain plug out everytime.
And you've got a motorhome.
You know what I'm talking about.
This one's got a little brassplug and then it's got a petcock
I can just turn or a device Ican put on my input water line
and it's got an air hoseconnection to it so you can blow

(14:41):
the water out all my water.
Yeah, all these little thingsand just trying to learn all
that very gratifying though yeah, yeah, you accomplished
something.
Now you're right, you're betterthan what you were, because when
we went out in the motor homefor the first time here last
weekend, I'm like, do I know?
Like how am I going to be ableto commission the water system,
get it all to work?
You know, I finally goteverything going.

(15:02):
But then I went to take ashower and it was lukewarm, oh.
And I'm like this is horrible.
I was sitting there, my wifewas laughing hysterically, you
know, because it was cold andyou're in this little shower and
like bouncing on the walls andyelling.
But I finally figured out whatthe cause of that was.
There's a valve under thekitchen sink.
You have to pull a panel andthis one valve was turned that

(15:25):
mixes hot and cold.
I turned it the other way.
Boiling hot Isn't that crazy.
Next shower is perfect.
But yes, I hear what you'retalking about and it does make a
lot of sense.
It's kind of like neither younor I were big sports watchers.
Yeah, right, yeah, I will admitI've gotten into football,

(15:46):
particularly college football,after I came to Fayetteville,
even though our team usuallysucks, and then I started
watching pro football because Ijust love watching how good
these players are.
Yeah, they're amazing, it'sjust, it's amazing.
Yeah, but I always, always saidwho wants to watch sports, I
like to do sports.

(16:06):
Exactly, we're doers, we're notwatchers.
That's right, okay we do.
I don't passively like to watchor watch things happen yeah, if
people just did more doing,they'd be happier and they'd get
further ahead.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's the truth of it it is.
And the only time I like sitand passively watch is when I'm
hanging out with my wife Becauseshe likes to chill and watch,
and I'll watch the shows thatshe does.
I mean, you know it's enjoyable, right, but I mean a lot of
times I mean, and even her likeshe's multitasking.
But I mean, like you know, butmost of the times I'm doing

(16:42):
something?

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh, I am too.
It drives my wife crazy.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sitting there,I'm writing an article at the
same time as I'm watching theshow, you know, yeah, but anyway
, we, um, so we do believe inthe work hard play hard adage,
and it's a good mantra forentrepreneurs, absolutely.
So let's talk about um, ournext topic on the list.

(17:02):
Let's talk about um, our nexttopic, yeah, on the list.
Um, and that is obsessing overthe quality of your customer
service.
You know, high customer service, high levels of that, is a
marketing strategy, and so Ithink a lot of small business
owners are absolutely missingthe boat.
This is the one thing you cando, that the big guys are never

(17:25):
going to be as good as you areat.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I'd actually say that it's more like I would put it
as a top-line business strategy.
Oh, it is.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, it is.
You know what I'm saying.
Well marketing really toucheseverything, you're right.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like you can legitimately
say that is my number onedistinction.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's likeyou can legitimately say that is
my number one distinction.
This is how I'm going to market.
This is how I'm going to winthe business.
This is how I'm going tosustain the business.
Yes, everything is tied intothat, and using systems and
processes, your technology,about all that stuff is just
absolutely critically important.
My problem has always been it'sso challenging, mark, as an

(18:03):
entrepreneur like this has beenmy experience to get everyone
else to believe into that asmuch as I believe in it, because
it's not a one-person job.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
No, it's not at all.
Everybody has to, because theycould all be in contact with a
customer.
100%, it's a cultural thing.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
It is a cultural thing that it is a cultural
thing, yes, and that, and therehas to be.
When we've talked about kpis,measurements.
But how do you make sure thatthat's part of your goals?
Like I mean, you can't.
You know we have on ours like,uh, we call it, uh, you know
churn, reducing churn, likewhat's the measurements against
that?
Like, I know how many touchpoints you have with clients.

(18:43):
Yeah, you know how do you watchany of the clients falling out?
Because it shouldn't beconfused within, which is part
of the calculation.
But if you have your top funneland you're bringing new business
in, is the bottom of yourfunnel just as wide as your top,
because the same amount ofclients are falling out of the

(19:03):
bottom?
Yeah, that's a really badscenario.
Yeah, you want that churn to beas tight as possible and you're
always going to have some somethings that happen.
But if you can watch that, youknow, can you how?
How high in the top of thefunnel can you measure to
predict the amount that's goingto fall at the bottom funnel?
And you, and watching that isso important but it hopefully

(19:26):
leads the company into justbeing aware of how important it
is to have a tight bottom funnel.
But that customer service, thatsuccess is what it's all about,
all the way down the bottom.
And then when they leak out,how do you follow up the ones
that have leaked out too?
I mean, there's so much to itlike it shouldn't be.
It should not be negated it.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
There really is.
I mean, I think in a practicalsense, you know we're talking
about what small business ownerscan do.
Yeah, I mean, first thing isthey do have to get tuned in to
what's being put out there aboutthem on social media and they
got to respond to it.
Yeah, okay, just going notresponding to people who are

(20:08):
criticizing or unhappy is not aviable way to go, in my mind.
All your reviews, you know,your online reviews those are
critical.
Again, if there's a problem,you need to tune into it, but
you know I think there's.
There's other things too needto tune into it, but you know, I
think there's.
There's other things too, thatyou know.
I'll never forget it.

(20:29):
Um, and you remember this whenuh, what the heck is that?
Do you freaking beep her off?
I'm sorry?
Um, I, if you remember, when Ifirst came back to Zweig White
and then you joined me shortlythereafter, we had that thing

(20:49):
called the customer serviceinbox.
You remember this, yeah, andwhat we found out was that the
customer service inbox, wherepeople would submit an inquiry
online, was going to somebodywho was no longer there and the
email wasn't being forwarded.
We get into that thing and wefound hundreds of thousands,

(21:11):
maybe millions of dollars ofleads and other things that were
not being responded to formonths and months.
That's exactly right.
Okay, it was terrible, terrible, okay.
So then the first thing we do iswe say, okay, now you know
whoever it is that they're goingto.
They got to respond.
But let's say it goes to thereceptionist or whatever.

(21:32):
That's not good enough.
Yeah, okay, I got access tothat.
Sonia got access to that, maybeyou did.
I don't remember that inbox andwe could all look at it and
whoever responded to the thing,it would clear it out of the way
first.
Right, that's right.
Of course, I became obsessedwith that and you know what you
hear over and over for clientsor customers.

(21:55):
Whenever you're fast atresponding, they always are like
wow, that I really appreciatethat.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
I'm trying to spend money withyou.
Thank you for responding.
Yeah, isn't it amazing?
But it's just, it's so funny,like how we just we bypass that
and then you try to robotizethat.
Yeah, that's a you know a verbof trying to automate processes.
That's not good either.
No, it's terrible.
I mean like you, basically likenumber one, the system can

(22:22):
break at any moment and youdon't have any idea that it's
happening and how is it handlingit?
And I mean, people don't want afreaking robot.
There's nothing that makes memadder than hell than when I
call a company and I got to gothrough a freaking robot to get
to somebody and I'm like dude,seriously, as an insurance I
just found it I'm paying $15,000a year for auto insurance.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I just found it.
I'm paying $15,000 a year forauto insurance.
Dude, I switched recently.
I saved $4,000, plus Geico.
No, I went to Progressive.
Yeah, progressive, it was somuch cheaper.
The exact same coverages lineby line all the way down.
Yeah, it's crazy.
And you know what I heard.
By the way, it's interestingyou brought that up.
He's talking to one of myformer students who's an
insurance um independentinsurance agent.

(23:05):
He had nothing to do with memoving over to progressive, by
the way, but he said insurancecompanies will just charge you
more and more and more.
The longer you're with them,the more you're overpaying
because they know you don'treally want to switch.
It's, that's right.
It's hard, okay, but he goes, Iyou could.
In many cases you can dump theinsurance company, move to

(23:26):
somebody else, come back sixmonths later and say 40 to 60
percent.
You're crazy.
The same insurance companyshady, because they don't care
about you as an existingcustomer.
I mean, isn't that terrible?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
it is terrible, it's a business, but you gotta I mean
like, but that's a, I mean Idon't agree with that business.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
No, I don't either.
I mean, I used to see that withhealth insurance providers when
I was buying health insurancefor companies.
They would bump you up and it'ssuch a nightmare.
Your employees hate it.
Yeah, you just have to changeevery couple years or you're
going to get ripped off.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, it's a good point, customer.
The point is customer support.
Here's what I tell the team allthe time At Podcast Videos.
Our job is reduce the frictionof all this stuff Right, reduce
the friction, it's so easy.
Lower the freaking cost youreally understand.
As I lower the cost.
I want to pass that on to ourcustomers.
Yes, I want to come back to youand say man, it was this.

(24:18):
Now, guess what?
It's that, because we havedefined this process, we've made
it into a machine, we're tryingto do the same thing at Janus
Motorcycles.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, the exact same thing.
Lower baby, if we can cut ourcost out and then pass that on
to the consumer, we can expandour volume dramatically.
Exactly, okay, everybody'shappier.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
That's a customer.
But I think that that belongsin our customer service.
Yeah, you're providing aservice to your customers.
I mean, actually, as a matterof fact, when we look at the
word customer service, we bypassthat as like it's just some
sort of lingo.
But it's customer service.
We're rendering a service tothe customer first.
That's why they pay us the damnmoney, you know, and if you can

(25:01):
always think like in my mindwhen I think about starting a
business, I'm like what valuableservice am I rendering?
Right, that's going to givemoney back to me.
It's not about how much moneycan I make and how rich, no,
it's not at all.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's the money's a byproduct.
You've got to do the thingfirst that's right.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You see the service.
It's the opportunity go renderthat and then then everything
else will work out well.
Take care of the customers.
It should be the number onething you're after.
By the way, you're bringing uponline reviews.
Yeah, my proudest thing in thiscompany.
You can ask anybody here.
What has Eric rant and raveabout since day one?
Google reviews, yep, so I havebeen 5.0?

(25:41):
Dude, check it out.
5.0, 41 reviews, wow, all legitand authentic, and we've only
been established in like ninemonths.
Yeah, you're in business.
Yeah, but I mean like dude.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
That's something to be proud of.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
They come in.
I'm like who's responding?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Respond to good reviews, not just the bad ones.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Every time I, I, yeah , I always be thankful and
appreciative and show gratitude.
This is, to me, the mark of oursuccess.
Yeah, and as a business, I'mlike that.
This gives me confidence.
Yeah, that people really goodspend the time they come in here
and I mean it's just, it'sfantastic and I mean nothing
makes me happier than whenever Isee a reviewer come in yeah,
and every bad experience thatanybody ever has, and you know

(26:28):
it's inevitable at some point.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Your opportunity as the business owner is to turn
that around and blow theirfreaking mind of it.
Okay, love it, just blow theirmind with what you're willing to
do.
Absolutely it's a game man, itis a competition.
I mean, I think you know likewe've had matt lewis in here
before.
You know, I remember I boughtthis f-250 from matt once and I

(26:54):
knew a little bit of the history.
It was just slightly used.
Yeah, okay, matt, actually itwas his, his, his demo for a
short time, but anyway.
So I bought it and, like thesecond, maybe the first or the
second day I had it, I had somekind of a horrible blowout where
my you know, water was goingeverywhere and steam and all

(27:18):
this stuff.
And so I call over there toMatt and within five minutes his
two brothers come over there,bring me a brand new truck to
drive.
Okay, take mine, get it fixed.
Okay, you know, trailer orwhatever, get it fixed.
Call me up, you know it's readyto go.
Can we bring this to you?

(27:39):
I'm like, like who gets thatservice from a ford dealership?
Nobody, beautiful, but I'llnever forget that and guess what
?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
you have totally accessible, constantly bought
new vehicles oh my god.
Constantly refer to theirbusiness because you know
they're going to take care ofany of my kids, any of my
friends, family members,everybody's got a lewis ford
yeah, it is, and it's just theresponse and it was so different
.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
You know, he really brought a lot of that to the
place.
I mean, because I met Matt.
Originally, I bought a newDodge Magnum, remember those?
Yeah, it looked like a stationwagon, it was kind of low and
they were based on.
The platform was the MercedesE-Class and I thought I'm going
to get a poor man's E-Class andbuy this thing.

(28:24):
Anyway, I hated it.
But my experience with the Dodgedealership which they owned was
not good.
I paid 100% for the car and Iwas traveling and they wanted me
to come get it.
I'm like I can't leave that siton your lot.
What's the big deal, man?
They had some kind of a fit andI said this is bizarre.

(28:46):
Anyway, I told him about thislater and I bought it was over
there buying a ford or whatever,and I said, man, you need to go
help him out over there in thedodge.
So I told him about it.
I mean it ever since then.
That's how we became friendsand I never was treated like
that and he admitted that theyhad some problems over there.
He did end up going over thereand straightening the mess out,

(29:09):
okay, and really turned himaround.
But that customer service Imean, it's just bad experiences
can turn into raving customers.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
You want raving fans.
Yeah, you don't want customers.
Okay, raving fans.
Excuse me, raving fans.
Yeah, you don't want customers.
Okay, raving fans.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Excuse me, fans you know service man, sir, but it's
one thing a small company can do.
I think that big companiesalways struggle with because
they're so big they don't knoweverything that's going on.
Sure, they don't really havethe systems to monitor
accurately.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, or maybe they're out there but they're
not looking at them no, yeah, Ithink I think on that point,
like if you're a small business,like if you know when you're
trying to start something up yougot quickbooks or counting.
You know, you got marketing,you got all these different
things and the one thing thatgets neglected I see a lot
that's not front of mind for,you know, new entrepreneurs is

(30:04):
what about your customerrelationship management software
?
Oh gosh, I know, you know, andthey're like what are you
talking about?
Yeah, you know, like a lot ofpeople don't even understand
what that means.
And collecting the data of yourcustomers so that you know them
better, you know how many, howthose people's minds.
I mean it's and it's.
It requires work, it requiresinvestment.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
You know that I read not long ago only 20 of crm
implementations are actuallysuccessful.
Yeah, ultimately becausethey're not supported by
management.
Management's not using it.
Therefore employees don't useit.
Right.
Right, and it's critical.
If you go back to the earlydays of Zweig White and we had a

(30:44):
wide area network, we had sixor seven offices Fred White had.
We had the T1 lines or whateverthey were, that gave us good
data connection.
Everybody was on one CRM.
It was live.
I'll never forget this client.
I pick up the phone and thisguy tells me who he is and the

(31:06):
company he's with.
I look quickly on the CRM and Igo how did you like that
seminar of ours you went to inAtlanta six months ago?
What was that all about?
Did you find it was valuable?
Guy's like you know I did that.
I'm like absolutely, that's mybusiness to know.
I didn't say yeah, I'm sittinghere looking at a computer
screen.
Yeah, yeah, because people justdidn't have stuff like that 30

(31:28):
years ago.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
I remember you talking about that.
Fred White really implementedthat very well, even when I
joined Zy Group.
Yeah, I remember your CRM.
You were using Pivotal at thetime.
That's right, it's PivotalSolutions.
Yeah, and we moved it toSalesforce, migrated it over
during that time period, but Imean it was, but the data that
you had in there was just rich.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's fantastic, but it's such a cultural thing that
CRM is so critical, getting theinformation early on.
Like you got to go back whenyou and I were kids or whatever,
and you'd go to Radio Shack tobuy something, whatever it was.
You remember this?
You had Radio Shack inNashville, right, yeah, so you
go there and what's your nameand your phone number?

(32:10):
Do you remember that?
Yeah, yeah, they'd always getyour name and phone number and
address so they could bombardyou with their catalog.
Yeah, I thought that's anabsolutely brilliant strategy.
Nobody, I thought that'sabsolutely brilliant strategy.
Nobody else was doing that.
Yeah, nobody.
Yeah, they had all thatinformation on all their
customers.
They knew who was buying stuff,how much they were buying so
much power, what they werebuying.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
It's so much power, man.
It is so comforting when youhave that.
But, you know, I think that's abig asset for the company.
It's valuable Honestly.
Yeah, let's talk about thatreal quick.
Yeah, if you start out with agreat CRM and you have a good
culture, that's about customerservice and you build this CRM
with all this data, when you goto sell your company, dude, I

(32:55):
mean, the acquirer is going tolook at you and they're going to
do all their due diligence.
But then they go in and theysay wait a minute, you have
50,000 people in your database.
You've known them since the dayone.
Yes, they've been repeatingcustomers and so that
demonstrates your churn sovaluable.
It is why they're going to buyyou.
It is Most companies buy othercompanies for their clientele

(33:19):
because they're going to tack iton to whatever bigger ship they
got that's exactly what we soldthe company in 04, the private
equity firm.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
They had magazine group the one that we ended up
but buying back we were talkingabout this morning and they had
a trade show group that servedthe same customer base as we did
.
They wanted that database.
Yeah, okay, we made thosethings viable, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
I mean it's really in , in all honesty.
I mean like we sold our companybecause of our clientele, of
course, you know.
I mean that's why companies buyother companies.
Yep, you know and rolling is abig part of it, the thing we
trick our minds into thinkingyou have some sort of special
product or you have some, but no, I mean your product is as good
as the amount of customers thatare using it, you know.

(34:03):
I mean you can have a reallygreat software.
Now you might have a softwarethat somebody wants to buy to
tack on and blend in because ithas a tool or functionality that
you need.
Yeah, but they're going to lookat the usability of that, like
how many customers do you have?
How many people are using it?
What's the amount of timethey're spending on it, is it?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
really useful for them, right?
Is it really critical to theirbusiness?
Yeah, because that validatesthe value of that asset that I'm
about to purchase.
Yeah, now it's so.
The crm is critical.
The social media following that, responding reviews yeah,
following them, responding good.
And CRM getting the culture outthat this customer service is
critical.
So can we talk about that?
Yeah, what do you think is how?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
do you do that?
Yeah, that's exactly what I wasgoing to say is like the
response of number one as thefounder, as the entrepreneur, as
the small business owner, asthe founder, as the entrepreneur
, as the small business owner,if you don't have a very strong
vision and perspective of thevalue of customer service,

(35:11):
you're not ever going to have itin the company.
It's no one else'sresponsibility.
It's just as important as youhave to be able to read the
numbers and understand what'sgoing on in the business.
You have to know aboutmarketing.
I'm sorry, sorry to tell you,but if you go into
entrepreneurship, you have to beable to own these pillars.
Yeah, and but if I think it'svery important, like, do you

(35:33):
drive that into the culture fromday one, the first person that
you hire, the second person?
You continuously watch that andjust burn that into people's
minds.
And how is the customer serviceoperating in this?

Speaker 2 (35:46):
company and if people do stupid stuff or bad stuff
they've got to be addressed 100%.
I mean you can't let it go on.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I mean, I remember many years ago I had this new
person that worked for me.
Okay, came in and they weregoing to be with one of our
clients.
Like, basically, one of ourclients demanded some additional
services, so we brought in aperson that had great
credentials, came in, startedworking on behalf of one of our
accounts, our clients.

(36:14):
This person left a pretty goodjob to come over, right, I mean
thought it was all great.
Sure, the client calls me backin the first week.
That's not good, not good.
They're like, don't like thisMatter of fact, they did
something that was embarrassingto us.
Oh, I brought that person in,can't have you, sorry.

(36:38):
Yeah, I know this is terrible.
Right, you just have to.
You know, I mean it's reallybad, but this can't happen.
It's the way it is.
I have to take care of thisbecause there's no way to really
that circumstance, there's noway to repair or coach or grow
out of it.
Yeah, and I'll admit I wasprobably maybe now, today, I
would have probably done it alittle bit differently, giving a

(36:59):
little bit more effort, right,but at the time I mean like I
can't, I can't, yeah, there's noslack.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
There's no extra.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
We can't afford to waste it was like dude, be like,
because, number one, I had todemonstrate back to my client
that was part of the customerservices that I'd say you dealt
with it you dealt with.
This won't happen again.
You know why?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
because it's impossible that it will.
That makes total sense to meand you know, I remember
situations like we'd havesomebody on the phone who was
new and they couldn't pronouncethe name of the company right.
And I know, like the officemanager or whatever, I would go
look, you've got to getso-and-so to say my name
properly, yeah, okay.
And they would think I'm beinglike extra picky or something.

(37:42):
No, like no, I'm not beingpicky.
Yeah, I mean, if you can't saythe name right, you can't answer
our freaking phone.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm sorry, hey okay, there's so much into this, like
it's how you talk to people,what do you say to people.
You know how you follow up with, how you greet them when they
walk in.
I mean one thing we do here.
What I love about the team iswe have embedded in us this
understanding, intuitiveunderstanding.

(38:12):
If you work here and peoplewalk in this building as a guest
or as a client or the firsttime in, like greet the hell.
I mean, like you always seepeople in the lobby, like the
whole team comes up and you knowit's like a little mini party.
I walked in yesterday from aclient meeting.
I walked in and, dude, I couldhave sworn.
We were like you know, freaking, hanging out at a bar or

(38:35):
something.
Because I walk in, there's 10people in there, five of them
are clients, five of them are myteam, laughing, cutting up,
serving coffee.
I was like I mean, my mentalitycan't be like, why isn't
everybody working?
No, no, no.
Everybody is massivelycontributing right now.
This is the work.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
This is the work.
Yes, no, you're right.
You're absolutely right aboutthat.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, there's just so much that can be better.
You know, it's amazing to meback on big companies and how
they blow it.
So the gas company that we havehere, whose name I'll mention,
is Source Gas.
Oh no, it used to be Source Gas, now it's Black Hills Energy.
I don't know if you have thatin Benton County, but that's who
we have in Washington County.

(39:20):
So, anyway, I get theseelectronic bill notices and I go
to pay the gas bills on ourproperties, okay, and it's
clicked through here to pay yourbill.
When I get those, I pay themthe moment they come in because
I don't want to forget.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like I'm not going togo.
Okay, I'll deal with that later.
It's like pay that freakingbill because I don't want to

(39:43):
hear like you have five days topay your gas bill or it will be
disconnected.
You know when you're out oftown or whatever.
So I click through and thewebsite blows up, okay.
So I thought, oh, you know, Ilook them up, I, I google it.
It's the website down at blackhills energy.
It says I found something thatsays it's being worked on for
maintenance.
So the next day it's down, thenext day it's down, the next day
it.
So the next day it's down, thenext day it's down, the next day

(40:04):
it's down, the next day it'sdown.
I'm like something's reallywrong here, right?
So I get on Facebook, I findtheir page on Facebook.
They have a Black Hills Energypage.
I send a message, a Facebookmessage hey, what's the deal
with your website?
You know.
And I also put a post on theirwebsite Facebook page and said
what's the deal with yourwebsite?
And I also put a post on theirwebsite Facebook page and said

(40:26):
what's the deal with yourwebsite?
Boom, within three minutes Iheard back, first from a manager
that said it was an individualperson.
I saw that Tell me what problemyou're having.
Then I also heard through themessage thing from their it
people.
Nice, okay.
So I did have a pleasantinteraction.

(40:47):
First, the um I, the um itpeople acted like there was
nothing wrong.
Eventually I got them to admit,yeah, that people with
uncertain browsers, I, ie,iphones are having problems.
Everything else seems to work,but that's a problem.
So then I passed that on to theother woman I was talking with

(41:10):
who responded to the manager,responded to my post actually on
Facebook and told her that waswhat was going on and she sent
me a link through Facebookmessage to their website that I
could open.
I could open it in Facebook,but if I click through to the
web and said open it as a webpage, it blew up.
My point in all this is thatwas last week.

(41:31):
Okay, you know what Stilldoesn't work?
All right, yeah Now can youbelieve that a company that big
can't fix the fact that theirwebsite's not loading on iPhones
, which is the number oneplatform.
You think everybody's going togo to their freaking computer to
pay that bill.

(41:51):
No, most people are going topay it off their phone, right,
it's all stored in there mychecking account, everything
else takes a couple buttons.
It's great.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
But they still haven't fixed it.
They've got to raise that up tothe top priority of that
company right now.
I know I mean it's kind of thepoint right.
Yeah, one of the biggestreasons you stay so attuned to
the customer service is becauseit lets you know what the
highest priorities are withinthe company that need to be
fixed with your product andservice.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Hey, it just worked.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
So, in all fairness, fairness did not work last night
, but today it works.
Now it's working.
So congratulations, black, welldone.
So I got a quick story oncustomer service.
That happened to me last week.
So we have our house that hasthis bathtub with one of these
faucets that come up from thefloor and pours into the bath.
You know it's like a standalonebathtub.
What do you?
Whatever you call, yeah,freestanding, freestanding,
thank you, yeah.
Yeah, I've done a lot of those,so I've gone through a lot of

(42:48):
soaking tub.
Yeah yes, yeah but I've one ofthe, the, the flange or gasket
busted in in the pipe and it'slike a 15 year old system, and
so we had the plumbing like aplumbing company come out
looking like man look, this isyour only problem.
But if you want to repair thefaucet, you're talking $3,500.
I'm like, oh, my god, that'syou got that includes the

(43:12):
fixtures that includes the laborto replace the whole thing.
And then and I mean it's like,oh my gosh, and so, yeah, that's
great.
Anyway, I went through about aweek back and forth.
I, I went everywhere to trythis flan, find this gasket.
Can't find it anywhere.
Go to plumbing supply companiesaround here locally, can't find
it.
So I'm finally like I'm justgoing to call the manufacturer

(43:32):
right of this, kingston Brass.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Oh, Kingston Brass.
I used it many times.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, so I call, right, Uh-huh.
And my expectation was like,man, there's just no way, you
know, I mean this, I get onthere.
And I talked to this lady andshe's you know, you got, you got
not.
You know southern accent, justyou know.
And I'm just like, okay, youknow this, this lady's not.
I mean I had, I just hadassumptions, like she's not
gonna help me, right.
I was like so I got this andshe's like well, well, what kind

(43:59):
is it?
What model number is it?
I'm like, man, I have, I haveno idea.
She said send me a picture.
She said send me a picture.
I was like, okay, you know,went and took some pictures,
sent it to her.
She stayed on the phone with methe whole time.
She goes hold on a second.
She goes and is on hold.
I'm on hold for probably abouttwo or three minutes.
She comes back product numbermark.

(44:25):
She worked with me for 15minutes to find a freaking
gasket that probably cost twodollars, right, oh, yeah, I mean
it's you know.
And then she finally found shegoes listen, we don't carry that
anymore.
And like this time I'm likeshe's so embedded, I'm like I
haven't.
Why is this person even helpingme at this point.
And then she's like but here'sthe replacement model, and you
know it's 500.
She goes look it's 500 in oursite, but on amazon it's like
but here's the replacement model, and you know it's 500.
She goes look it's $500 on oursite, but on Amazon it's like
300 something dollars.

(44:46):
She, literally she goes I'mgoing to go buy that one.
And so you know, I was like ohmy God Right.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
And I was like your plumber can't charge you $3,200
to install the $300 faucet.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
If they are, they're really ripping you off, right,
but it's like you just not onlydid you help me, right, you
really helped me, but then yousaved me money.
Yeah, I know, and she's likehave a good day and I'm like
okay, but in my mind, here's thething Kingston Brass Rules,
don't they?
They rule.
I love Kingston Brass.
You got the Kingston brass specdown on this home.

(45:20):
I'm telling you.
It's so true.
They got good customer service.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yes, I'm going to use Kingston brass because I can
promise you I maybe can't holdDelta and get that right.
I may have told this storybefore If I did forgive me on
this show.
So one time I buy a lot ofblinds online because I used to
redo a lot of houses.
It was like blindscom.
Yeah, they're so good theirsite.

(45:44):
Pick out what you want, you canorder it.
It's really designed, it's easyto order, like you can take
your last blind that you enteredin and open it up and it's got
the same thing.
And maybe you just change thewidth.
You don't have to go reentereverything, whatever.
Great system, okay.
So anyway, I buy a lot ofblinds from them.
So I get this email message on aFriday night that said if

(46:09):
there's anything from thepresident of the company just a
typical email I'm sure it wentto their whole customer list.
If there's anything we could dobetter, I'd love to hear from
you.
So I was never happy with thevalance that covers the header
on these blinds.
So I sent him a note and saidyou know, I appreciate the email

(46:29):
, but this is a problem I havewith your product.
The guy calls me like 20minutes later the founder no,
okay, the founder of the company, and, by the way, you know what
I found out later.
You know what kind of businessthey're doing 200 million.
Wow, the founder calls me, okay,jay.

(46:51):
I can't remember his last name.
Jay was his first name, okay,and so I talked to him and he's
like you know what he goes,you're ordering wrong.
He goes actually, we do havewhat you want and this is the
way you need to order it.
You got the wrong product.

(47:12):
You're specking it out wrong.
I was looking for Jay's lastname.
I got it in here because Iended up.
He was so helpful to me, so Istarted asking him questions
about his business.
I talked to the guy forprobably 20 minutes on a Friday
night at like 635.
Fantastic, okay, this is whathe's doing with his time.

(47:32):
Ask Jay to come on our show andlet's talk about that.
They did sell the company, bythe way.
They sold to Home Depot, or alot of these.
I can't remember which one.
I don't know if Jay's stillthere.
We had Jay as a speaker at oneof our conferences, though, and
he started out by buying a tinylittle blind shop that had like
one or two employees in it.
That's how he started thatbusiness.

(47:54):
There's a guy who understandscustomer service Dude, he's
answering it himself, loves hiscustomers.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
man, Do you think I would?

Speaker 2 (48:03):
go to anybody else after that.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Hell no.
And do you think that you'regoing to recommend anybody to
anything else?
I mean, like you have to love Ithink the synopsis of this
whole conversation as theentrepreneur, as the founder, as
the business owner, you have tolove your customers Absolutely.
I mean, you legitimately haveto have a passion towards the

(48:27):
people that you're serving.
Jay and Steinfeld, jaySteinfeld, jay Steinfeld.
Well done, yeah.
Thank you for showing us,demonstrating how to love your
customers and take care of them.
I mean, that's what business isand we forget that so much.
There's so much other crapthat's being talked about.

(48:47):
If you just love on yourcustomers, you're going to have
a successful business.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's really true.
Yeah, love on your customersand survive long enough.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, and don't make other stupid, all the other
things that we rise up to thetop.
Those are good principles and,yeah, you have to watch out for
them.
But if you start there, if youstart there and you finish there
, you're going to have a verysuccessful business.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
There's one other story I want to tell about a big
company, and it's one that welove here.
We're not Walmart bashers,we're Walmart supporters.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
I love Walmart.
I love Walmart so much.
Mark, Can I say something realquick on that?
Yeah, say it.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
I know you make me guilty every time I buy anything
from anybody else.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
So, by the way, back on the story about Kingston
Brass, when she recommendedAmazon, I sent it to my wife.
I don't buy from that place andyou bought it on Walmartcom.
I don't know where she boughtit, but I was like this is the
link that she gave me.
I don't go there, walmartcom,you go buy it wherever, but I do
not buy from Amazon.
I'm just saying Because I loveWalmart so much, I know, I know,

(49:52):
but I'm publicly stating youknow that I mean I absolutely
want to champion and help likeas much as I can.
I mean want to champion andhelp as much as I can Because
it's so significant to theplanet, it's so pivotal to our
area.
There's the University ofArkansas.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
They're responsible.
People are totallymisunderstanding Walmart.
The Walmart bashers have noidea.
All the good things that theydo, their sustainability
initiatives, the, the thoughtsthat goes into every development
, yes, the innovative stuff thatthey're trying to do their
office, the way they treat theiremployees, the paid education

(50:34):
for anybody there, I mean it'sall, though.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
No, they don't know and how much, how much
investment, investment Walmarthas had to make to make all
those things happen.
And the biggest thing, theircore values, their founder
values that they have from SamWalton.
They still carry those.
I met Sam.
After 50 years they're stillwalking in those founder values
and they speak about them.
Their executive team speaksabout them.

(50:58):
Their training, theirleadership that they have to
have.
I mean, it's just, it'sabsolutely like I think it's the
best company that's everexisted and is existing today.
That's my perspective.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Okay, now I want to tell you a story.
This is 20 years ago, okay, sothe cast of characters has
changed.
All right, so 20 years ago I'mat the Walmart management
meeting on Saturday morning.
You know where they would haveall the managers.
I don't know if they still dothat, but all the managers would
call in from all over the globe.
Very impressive, there wereprobably a thousand people.
Where were you at?

(51:30):
At the headquarters Walmart HQ?
Oh, you were there.
Yeah 20 years ago.
What were you doing 20 yearsago?
I was with the dean of theCollege of Business.
He said, hey, you want to go tothe Walmart meeting with me
tomorrow morning?
I said, hell, yeah, you were.
Yeah, yeah, I was inFayetteville.
I just started working for theUS.
You were in Fayetteville, yeah,I just started working at the
University of Arkansas, anyway.

(51:53):
So that was Doyle Williams.
So he asked me if I wanted togo with him.
So I went over there.
It was impressive seeing allthese people call in and all the
people together.
But this was really telling tome and I've told this story
before.
So John Mincer I think he waspresident of Walmart stores USA
or whatever it was, or Walmartstores at the time is up there

(52:15):
talking.
Okay, he says, if Mike Wallace,from 60 minutes, is
interviewing me and he says,from 60 Minutes, is interviewing
me, and he says, asked me ifWalmart has the best customer
service of any retailer, can Itell him we do.
And of course there's like,like you know, no answer, maybe
a few little snickers in thebackground Okay, because they

(52:37):
knew they did not have it right.
Yeah, so he goes.
Okay, well, if we don't have it, can I say we don't have it.
Can I say we don't have it now,but like by november we'll have
it again.
A few more, you know, side deadsilence, a few little snickers
yeah, he goes, okay.
Well, if I can't say that hegoes, why can't I say that he
goes?
Don't our checkers askeverybody who comes through did

(53:00):
you find everything you wantedtoday?
And this guy raises his hand MrMenser, sir, we've done a study
and we found that our checkersask that only 37% of the time.
And he's like well, why don'tthey ask it all the time?
And then somebody else says MrMenser, what are they supposed
to do if the customer says Icouldn't find what I wanted?

(53:22):
Oh, does a red light go off?
That's an alarm sound.
Can't find them.
Pampers extra small, super driesokay 24 count box, you know, do
they get on the phone?
Is there like a red phone?
They can bring me the pampers.

(53:43):
24 count, extra small superabsorbance.
No, there's nothing.
And it was almost dead silencebecause it pointed out the
failure.
Yeah, so, yeah, they asked that.
But if they say no, what do youdo?
Right?
Do you stop everything and runover and get it for him?

(54:03):
There's no system beyond that.
At the time they probably fixedit because that's what walmart
does, sure, and you know.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, but just witnessing that was very
powerful, for yeah, yeah, that'sbecause you have to think about
, especially, the company waslarge, large as Walmart.
But I mean, like even a smallbusiness like this, like we
can't, as the entrepreneur,watch every single customer
interaction that goes on and youcan't simply trust that it's

(54:34):
going well.
No, because if you're a checkerand I asked you, did you find
everything you're looking fortoday?
And you're like, no, I couldn'tfind this, if that happens to
me one time, I'm probably notgoing to ask the next person
Exactly the awkwardness, BecauseI can't, yeah, you can't do
anything about it.
Yeah, but finding out that Ithink it's a great illustration.
Mark of customer service is notjust a statement, it's not just

(54:58):
a thing that you do.
It is a continuous work inprogress.
Like you were 20 years ago,walmart's been around for 30
years.
By that time it's stilladdressing a customer service
problem.
It's like a never-ending, it'san eternal thing that you've got
to go after and follow up onand see where the breakdowns are
happening.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah, you have to just be a zealot, you've got to
be a business owner, you've gotto be obsessed with it.
And you know, it's reallyinteresting to me too.
I I can remember in the earlierdays of my, my company, you
know, we were rocking along,we're very successful, and
there'd be somebody was unhappywith something they got or they
didn't get you know in time, orwhatever, and I always said not

(55:42):
only do you want to take care ofwhatever that problem was, but
give them something else.
And my own people would nottake advantage of that, like
they're too stingy.
You know, I'm like I don't careabout that.
The guy buys an $80 book and hedoesn't like it.
Give him a $200 book, that'sright.
Okay, what difference does itmake to us?
Now he's going to go.
Those guys are great, that'sright.

(56:04):
Otherwise you're going to saythey're shit.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
And the compounding effect.
I mean and we've said thisbefore and before you respond,
like you know, my point is onthe word of mouth is the best.
The word of mouth is the bestform of marketing ever that you
can ever have.
But what it takes to get there,the work that it takes to get
that word of mouth, you have tobe able to answer those things.

(56:29):
You have to respond with a200-page book and sacrifice and
you can't look at the rawnumbers and bean count.
If you have an upset customer,you must invest.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, it's part of your marketing cost.
Just get over it.
Get over it and empower yourpeople to solve it, so they're
not like, well, I don't knowwhat I can do.
I'll wait for Mark to come back, but right now he's in Houston.
No, yeah, no Fix it yeah.
Whatever the hell it takes.
That's another small businessproblem.
Small, small business problem.
Small business owners thinksmall Yep, and they practice

(57:03):
single person management.
Everything goes to them.
You can't operate like that.
No, you can't.
So if you want to not always bea small business or not be
trapped by your business, youbetter get your people solving
problems for you and notbringing them all to you.
So good stuff, good chat man.
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Well, I think it's time we wrapthis up.

(57:24):
Yes, sir, agreed, and so we'vegot a long roster of guests.
They're going to be on the showin 2025, which is going to be
fun.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
It's exciting man, I love hearing the stories, I love
getting more perspective on it.
I love hearing I mean, just howpeople started.
I mean just how people started.
I mean so many different thingsto talk about on here.
Yeah, there really are.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
There's no one magic formula in your business, is
there?
No?

Speaker 1 (57:55):
But I can say I'm excited at this conversation
because it reminds me of justlike I think if there was one
customer service, I meanhonestly, if I could name a day
right, it's customer service, Iagree.
Honestly, if I could name it,it's customer service, I agree.
And it makes me excited.
I'm going to go out to the teamand start harping on it a
little bit.
All right, you got a good teamout there.
I have a great you know what.

(58:15):
Honestly, I feel reallycomfortable about my team
because I know they like to takecare of our customers.
Like I know that if there is aproblem, that they're going to
do anything that they possiblycan and that's just culture
ridden.
It's in our blood now.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
That is just such a core foundation to build on.
It is.
I feel the same way about JanusMotorcycles.
In spite of whatever problemswe might have of one sort or
another, the customer service isoutstanding.
Everybody there cares,everybody there is responsive,
everybody there does whateverthey can do.
Yep, and man, that's valuable.

(58:52):
That's why we've got a loyalfollowing.
That's it, and that care startswith the founder.
It does 100%, absolutely doesso, anyway, great conversation.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Until next week.
This has been another episodeof Big Talk about Small Business
.
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sure to head over to our website,
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(59:38):
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