Ep. 79 - How to Stand Out in a Crowded Industry

What happens when an architect actually understands construction costs and client service? Lance Cayko, founder of F9 Productions and F14 Productions, reveals how he built award-winning companies by mastering what most competitors miss.

Beginning as a teenage roofer who caught the entrepreneurial bug at 13, Lance shares his journey through multiple trades, architectural education, and eventually founding his own firms during the Great Recession. Unlike many design professionals, Lance brought practical construction experience to architecture, creating a powerful feedback loop between design and building that benefits clients through realistic budgeting and problem-solving.

The conversation explores how Lance's companies have differentiated themselves in crowded markets not through revolutionary innovation but by excelling at fundamentals. His "one-hour response" communication policy has helped win the "Best of Mile High" award for customer service three consecutive years, while his integrated design-build approach ensures designs remain practical and cost-effective. These "brilliant basics" have attracted high-net-worth clients who value reliability and quality.

Perhaps most valuable for entrepreneurs is Lance's insight into "white-collaring blue-collar businesses" - the massive opportunity in bringing professional business practices to traditional trades plagued by poor communication, unprofessional conduct, and inconsistent quality. Whether you're in construction, design, or any service business, Lance demonstrates how focusing on fundamentals like valuing clients' money, maintaining open communication, and delivering consistently can create remarkable differentiation in markets where competitors often deliver disappointing experiences.

Ready to transform your approach to business? Connect with Lance on LinkedIn or visit f9productions.com to learn more about how mastering the basics can lead to extraordinary success.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
hey, everybody, we are back again in the studio, or
at least I am uh in the studio.
Eric's in the luxury of his ownhome and lance I don't know
where the hell he is.
I think he's at his office.
I am.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, this is.
It looks like I'm not.
It looks like I'm in a garage,which I kind of am, because we
have a giant glass garage door.
I love it for our construction.
So we have a three-story condothat we designed, built,
developed first floors for ourconstruction company.
Second floor, I'm on amezzanine and that's where both
companies meet with clients andstuff in the upper floors
architecture firm, so Awesome.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, so it's great We've got Lance Caco here in the
studio and this is anotherepisode of Big Talk about.
Small Business and, lance,you're in what Colorado I
believe, aren't you, lance?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I am just outside the People's Republic of Boulder,
yeah, okay, yeah, where it'sslightly more free.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's a good area.
Yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And one icebreaker I want to give you.
Mark is my last name isactually pronounced Psycho and
you can say that with fullauthority.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm sorry, lance, it's okay.
I apologize with full authority.
I'm sorry, lance, okay, Iapologize.
Um, it is great, okay, well,that we we've got a psycho in
the office.
You got it all right.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Man, that's a great name, thank you.
I agree my, my children hate itand I'm like why it's?
I think it's the best.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
So it's like it's a power name.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, it's like don't mess with this dude man man,
don't do it, don't do it.
So what is the origin of yourname, Lance?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's originally like Yugoslavian and it was
pronounced, it was spelled, itwas much more phonetically akin
to even Yugoslavian and it waslike Chudayko.
It was like C-H-Y-D-K-O orsomething like that.
And then they thought theywould come over here and
Americanize it.
And then everybody says, justlike you said, keiko Seiko,

(02:15):
something like that, and it'slike nope Seiko, but it's a
perfect icebreaker.
So I just leaned into it mywhole life life.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
That's freaking awesome.
I love it.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour businesses.
I know you've got a designbuild firm.
You basically just told us it'stwo separate companies, though.
Is that correct?
The construction separate fromdesign?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yep.
Yep Architecture firm is F9Productions Inc and then our
construction firm is F14Productions.
Both companies do a variety ofthings.
We don't just put our eggs inone basket.
So we do small residentialstuff, large residential stuff,
multifamily, and then commercialand boutique industrial

(02:57):
projects.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
What's the genesis behind the naming conventions?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah Well, when my business partner and I started
our architecture firm and, uh,in the great, in the middle of
the great recession, you know,when we got fired and laid off
from the other schmucks who butwho ran terrible businesses, uh,
we only we didn't have any workyou're known for, that I will,
absolutely, absolutely, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
We try to do the opposite working with them.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
There you go.
They're just, yeah, capital A,more artists than anything.
So the F9, we didn't have anybuilt work and we had to
convince clients to hire us andthe only thing we had was like
photorealistic renderings andthe piece of software that would
create them.
He would.
The execution key on thekeyboard was F9.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
So we just had.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
F9 production.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
That's cool, thanks.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your businesses, though.
Give us some numbers, give ussome indication of how you've
grown out there doing what youdo.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah sure, you've grown out there doing what you
do.
Yeah sure, we started f9 inofficially in 2010, so this
would be our 15th year and we'vegrown from just me and my
business partner, al gore.
He also has a pretty goodicebreaker name, um, and he's,
but he's he's politically theopposite of of the al gore.
You know, matter of fact, heeven got some hate mail
yesterday.
It was hilarious, like saying,like all your predictions have

(04:25):
gone wrong.
They've gone.
You know, haven't been trueabout the climate and all this
other stuff, and it was.
We laughed hysterically.
That's hysterical.
We started the firm, like I said, with no built work, no clients
, no real connections.
We were using Craigslist,believe it or not, for the first
couple of years to obtainclients and it was a sort of a

(04:48):
backdoor way to get in to theindustry and get connections.
And some of those clientspeople laughed at it and it was
like now some of those clientshave led to like giant,
multi-million dollar deals,which is pretty wild.
I mean, everybody was hurtingback then.
So you know, we struggled forthe first three years, barely

(05:08):
made payroll just for ourselves,and then the economy started to
take off in 2013.
And, at the same time we alsohad been reaching out, so we
needed to hire people.
So we reached out to Universityof Colorado, boulder, right
next door, to see if we couldhire some of their architecture
focuses for candidates, and theywere just not what we needed.

(05:29):
They were lacking some softwaredevelopment and knowing the
software to do the work.
So we said, well, you know,we're experts in this software
when we have master's degrees,like we can teach.
So you guys have any, do youhave any interest in us?
You know teaching.
And the architecture departmentsaid no, but the engineering
department has an opening.
And so we started to teachthere, this one class, and Alice

(05:53):
taught it for now about 13years.
I taught it with him for aboutseven, eight years and then I
switched over to a differentdepartment.
But when that also made it so,we had to hire somebody in
addition to that, right.
So it was like, oh, and that'swhen we started to multiply.
And so since then we've had abeautiful trajectory for the
past 12 years since 2013,growing from two people to nine,

(06:16):
growing from low six figures tomid seven figures with the firm
years, with the firm we are upfor.
Hopefully, next week I'll bepicking up the award for the
third year in a row of the Bestof Mile High, which is an award
in Denver for the best customerservice for architecture in the
entire state, and that's whatwe've really tried to build it
on, like we were talking aboutwith these other architects is

(06:39):
we know we're going to be gooddesigners, we know we're going
to do cool stuff, but what Ithink of most architects fail on
is customer service.
Picking up the phone, justdoing the basic stuff, like it's
pretty mind blowing yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Number one complaint is not responding to calls and
emails.
I mean for design professionals.
So true, yeah, I think theother problem and and you know,
um again, lance, I don't know ifyou're aware of it, but I mean
I worked 45 years in the AEbusiness and I've been an owner
in multiple firms, had my owndesign build firm as well, oh,

(07:11):
uh, that, uh, was on the Inc5,000 list in 2014.
And you know we had anunlimited license.
We started with historic typeproperties and then moved into
new houses and multifamily andcommercial, you know, sort of
classic but, but um, that said,um, you know, aside from the,

(07:32):
the lack of responsiveness,which is just so easy to do, you
know if you're dedicated, theother thing that people complain
about is just a lack of costknowledge of architects, and I
think having that constructionbusiness part as part of it has
to help that.
What has that been yourexperience?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
uh, yeah, 100.
And then it even empowers mylike employees who are, who are
mostly architects right, becauseyou know, I got into this
industry when I was I'm 42 whenI was 13 is I wanted to be a
builder first, actually, and soI, you know, I I tried working
on the farm for a week with mydad.
Didn't like my dad didn't likethe work, and I jumped over and

(08:13):
called his best friend up andgot a roofing job with him for
the summer and Bruce reallyinspired me.
I kind of got the rich dad,poor dad experience with between
Bruce and my dad, who raised me, wasn't that Bruce was super
rich, it was just that he didn'thave anxiety about money.
He was like the first realentrepreneur that I worked with
and he explained themultiplication factor to me in

(08:35):
terms of when you hire somebodyand then if you pay them $10 an
hour, you're charging the client$30, $40 an hour in profit, all
of it.
It made complete sense.
And I go, go.
At the end of the summer I waslike how do I, how do I become
you?
And he goes, you don't work forme next summer and I was like
what Cause?
I was a really good worker forhim I was the best gopher he

(08:56):
ever had and he goes.
But he was man enough to saywell, if you want to be me, then
you got to go learn anothertrade, like you learned roofing,
now you got to do framing andyou get next time you got to do
concrete.
So I followed in his footstepsin that way, and then I went to
tech school for two years andNorth Dakota State School of
Science for buildingconstruction tech and at the end

(09:16):
of my two year stint there wewere supposed to build a house
and I started looking at theblueprints.
The word architect startedpopping in my head and I had
another sort of epiphany at like20.
I was like, if I, what?
If I become a architect, Iwould get the clients first and
then I could fold them into thebuilding process.
I mean, and I'm just like sohappy that God came into my

(09:39):
brain and said that, because Iwas like what a beautiful like
for a 20 year old.
My son is 20, one of them, andhe doesn't have any of that
stuff going on, you know, andI'm like, oh man, god really
intervened in my life in thatway.
So that's what led me toactually be an architect.
Then I applied 70 miles Northto Fargo, where North Dakota

(10:00):
state is, went to school there,graduated at the top of the
class, moved out to Boulder, inthe Boulder area, and then, like
I was saying before, we startedrecording.
The two schmucks that hired meended up having to lay me off
because of the great recession.
And they're just.
They put all their eggs in onebasket.
They were really bad atcustomer service.
They just didn't have a youknow this like a stool with four

(10:22):
legs.
They had a stool with one legthat were sitting on, and then
the one leg got pushed off.
So I've always uh, you know, myreaction to that was I never
want to be put in that positionagain.
I'm I'm going to put myself inthe position where I'm the only
one laying me off, and thatain't happening.
And so then we started F9 andand then the way the building

(10:43):
part came back around was weended up designing and building
a tiny house.
We were on HGTV in 2013, 2014.
And I put the bags back on, putthe tool bags back on.
It felt really good.
We got a lot of press.
Subaru saw the episode.
They hired us to build two more.
We did.
We made the most money we evermade in a project.

(11:05):
We bought a piece of land andthen we put on another hat real
estate developer and so then webuilt a triplex and a sixplex.
We retained three of the units,one of which is my commercial
office building you guys can seein the background here.
And then I was like I got it.
I didn't get the best taste forreal estate development in my
mouth after we finished and Irealized I need to get my.

(11:29):
I was like, oh, but aconstruction company was born
out of this and I need to get itout of the startup phase and
really get a good team behind mebefore I do another real estate
development.
And we're on year six of thatand I'm a big believer in you
got to get to year seven beforeyou're, you know, really honed
in.
So that's kind of that's kindof all three of them in one.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know, lance, you you mentioned something in your
discussion about when you gotlaid off and you're not going to
let that happen again, notgoing to be surprised about that
.
And I've often talked to folksthat you know that are looking
to start their own business, butthey've been a you know, a
professional employee for 20years.
Right, and they're they're all.
They're real nervous about therisk and my response is always

(12:13):
look, you're actually as anentrepreneur, as far as knowing
if you're not going to have anymoney, you know in the next
month or two or whatever, whatyour future looks like.
You actually have a lot moresecurity because you have that
visibility.
You, you is that, do you agreewith?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
that A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I think that's a myththat people put in their own
heads, right?
Yeah, I never squared the thing.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, you got more than one client.
I mean, that's the thing Ifyou're employed, it's like you
have one client and you knowthat's not a good position for
any business to be in.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
So it seems like a high risk position, but some
people just don't see that, Iguess, and the rest of us do,
yeah, so tell me more about thedevelopment business.
What is you say that you didn'thave a great experience with
that.
Tell us about that.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, it's a couple fold.
I mean I want to take somepersonal responsibility for some
of it, which is like I think itwould have went a lot smoother
during the construction process.
No-transcript.

(13:38):
So because, like it was like,ok, you're building a tiny house
, you're built, you built twotiny houses and now you're doing
a a three million dollar mixeduse development.
It was uh, you know there's.
It was definitely like a hockeystick if there was a sort of
you put a chart to it, right,and it was like whoa, maybe that
was, maybe that was a littletoo much.
The buildings are beautiful, thebuildings are great, the

(14:00):
buildings are award-winning.
I live in one of the condosbecause we retained one of them.
Like I'm very happy with theconstruction quality.
It's just, I think it wouldhave been much less stressful
and more enjoyable and I'mreally one of those guys that,
like I need to love my jobbecause I'm an entrepreneur,
like I have no excuse to notlove my job if I'm an

(14:22):
entrepreneur.
I don't think people who gowork for other people, that's a
whole different story.
Right, we've kind of alreadytouched on that sort of thing.
Then there's also justunderstanding the litigious
nature of the possible litigiousnature of where it's at right,
and so the typology I would pickfor the next one would be I

(14:43):
would just do an apartmentbuilding and I would not try to
target a development where I'mlooking for cash, a big cash
prize at the end.
I'm okay with more of along-term return on it, where,
if we built an apartmentbuilding, then maybe we hold on
to that until we're through thelitigation period, which in

(15:05):
Colorado would be seven years,and then you try to entice an
investor to come in, and so it'slike a bigger play than where,
if you're doing single familyhomes, which essentially is what
we did because we did townhomes.
So that would be my big pivot.
Next is I would tackle it thatway.
What do you mean by litigationperiod is, uh, I would.

(15:26):
I would tackle it that way.
What do you mean by litigationperiod?
Oh, yeah, so.
So colorado has the worstcondominium laws in the united
states, worse than california,like I couldn't believe it.
So, for example, uh, whetheryou're an architect, a builder,
uh, developer, whatever is, ifyou build it, if you build a
condominium project in Colorado,you can get sued for up to
eight years, and the openingthat the laws give with a

(15:53):
metaphorical door here is all ittakes is one owner to allege
defects.
They don't even have to proveit, they just have to allege
defects.
Allege defects, they don't evenhave to prove it, they just
have to allege defects and callin and then there's no right to
repair the alleged defects.
In california, for example, youcan't bring a case about with
alleged defects.

(16:14):
You have to show damageactually, and in california if
you show the damage, then youhave the right to repair.
There's none of those things incolorado, wow yeah, well, stay
away from condos.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
I mean, a lot of architects don't want to touch
condos in general.
In my experience they're toorisky, as you say.
I mean I think you know myexperience has been, and I'd be
curious of what you think aboutthis that design professionals
don't always do well asdevelopers or contractors.

(16:46):
I think that the sense ofethics is so different on that
other side and you compete withoutlaws.
You know, particularly like ifyou look at the residential
market I mean you're out there,if you're building stuff and you
know you're competing againstother quote builder slash

(17:06):
contractors.
Some of them I mean you knowmost of their workers are
illegal aliens.
They're paying people with cash, they're getting kickbacks from
subs and overbilling theirclients.
I mean there's all this stuffgoing on.
And then if you're out theretrying to run an honest business
which I architects generallyare honest, they may not be the

(17:27):
greatest business people, butthey're ethical, I would agree
with that.
Yeah, and they've got a code of, and so are engineers, you know
it.
Just, it's it's difficult forthem to maybe adjust their
thinking.
Sometimes they also don't tendto like beat people down.
You know, um, somebody givesyou a price, or you know they

(17:49):
tell you that this costs morethan they anticipated and they
go along with it.
I mean, I'm just, you know,there's just a different culture
.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Absolutely.
You know, I made the mistakeand I told, I told myself I'm
not doing it this year.
So in 2024, I made a mistakethat I said I wasn't going to do
again and I did, and it's justlike ah, I'm a bonehead, Like
what a goofball.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
And it was yeah, I'm on wife number three, Lance, so
you're not talking to me.
It doesn't understand that.
I get it.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, all right, fair enough, I almost had wife
number three.
I recently got engaged and thenunengaged.
So there you go, mark, and Iunengaged.
Um, so there you go, mark, andI know we're both smokers.
This is hilarious.
Uh, the uh.

(18:40):
The mistake I made was I allowedus to be hired as architects by
a contractor and I didn'trealize they were the contractor
.
And boy did they remind me ofhow poorly they and they just
treat people like dogs, like,yeah, you're not.
You can't treat a architect oran engineer or even the
developer as a dog.
If you're a contractor like, ifthere's a triangle, it's an OAC
triangle owner, architect,contractor we're all, we're all
equal.
We're all literally equal.
Right, we're all trying withone goal to build the build the

(19:03):
thing, get the thing built, getthe thing built, get the thing
built.
So, yeah, that's one of mygoals this year is to not allow
that to happen and I try to beone of those general contractors
that is also very ethical.
So one of the things we do islike we do open book.
We do open book.
Everybody sees exactly what thebids are.
We do multiple bids.
They see what my markup is.
They have access to all thosefolders at any time.

(19:26):
Our clients, and that's thedeal.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
That's the deal.
Yeah, builds trust with theclient.
So, yeah, that makes a lot ofsense to me.
So what you know, I guess theone of the issues that I found
was a problem is working for aclient, and most of what we did
we did for ourselves.
So we didn't do a lot of clientwork.

(19:52):
But when we did, when thesubcontractors people let's say
you're building a house forsomebody and they're a lawyer
and the lawyer's spouse orwhatever, and they think you're
going to get three bids on theroof or three bids on the
electrical or whatever I hadtrusted subs.
I wasn't going to get threebids on the roof or three bids
on the electrical or whatever.
I had trusted subs.

(20:13):
I wasn't going to get any bidsfrom anybody.
I put these guys to workbecause I worked with them for
15 years and I know their roofdon't leak and if they have a
problem they'll be there thenext day and I know the
electricians aren't going to dosomething stupid.
So you know, because you've gota trusted relationship.
But the clients don't alwaysunderstand that.
They just think it's all amatter of low bid.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
What you experienced.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I have.
What I'll do is it's exactlywhat I experienced.
So I would say, most of thetime when we're building for
folks, we just do the selectedsubs and like I'll give them a,
I'll give them a little, andwhat I do is, but, but every but
, like, maybe one out of threeor one out of four clients, then
I'll I'll go, for example, formap, because that's a, that's

(20:56):
usually a big line item is, uh,I'll have another sub, bid
against us, bid against mytypical sub, and then I just so
I have some empirical data toshow them that like, look, hey,
just so.
You know, our standard practiceis 75, 90 percent of the time
is we're just doing the selectedsubs.
But if you really don't believeme, here's a.
Here's an example from lastquarter we had, we had a bid out

(21:20):
and look, every time somebodyelse is more expensive, it's
just, or, or they're prettyclose to the other sub, and I go
.
But I've worked with this personfor a decade and, like you said
, mark, I trust them.
Like, and then I'll tell them astory about my plumbers, for
example, when they owned up andpulled insurance on a problem

(21:41):
that we had on a project andlike save their butt, save my
butt, save the owner's butt, andshowed the integrity.
Yeah, it's difficult becauselike I don't want to uh how many
times it gets exhausting forthe subs too.
It's like sure you know, tohave them like bid and bid and
bid and bid, and it's like I'drather just have that.
Those trusted, I try to, youknow, those trusted subs,

(22:03):
trusted advisors, all that stuffthey hate bidding.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
If they have to bid, they're probably going to bid
high, I mean because they don'tknow for sure.
So yeah, if you've got peopleyou can trust.
Now, the other hand, though youdid make a statement, that is
true Some of them it's a goodidea to keep them on us by
shopping them, just becausethey'll creep up the pricing
over time, and that's anotherthing that I've experienced.

(22:31):
So, yeah, sometimes you do haveto get another bid to keep them
honest.
But the problem with a lot ofresidential construction, as you
know, is I get two bids fromHVAC subs or whatever.
They're not bidding apples forapples.
We don't have really detailedplans and specs on the HVAC.
We don't have, like, reallydetailed plans and specs on the
HVAC.
So one guy's bid is for reallyessentially a different system

(22:54):
and, you know, maybe it's justcheaper.
You know, and you don't know,the customer is not really
equipped to make the distinction.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it's true.
It's true, I know they don't.
They don't know.
Yeah, exactly, no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
You like we had to make a field modification like
relax sally, and then you knowhow can we make that happen yeah
, but you get that bad plumber,though, and they're the ones
that get their saws all out andtalk and and hack through three
floor joists oh my god, over andover again, like I don't know
how many that's.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
That's a tricky part with all any of those mep subs.
I'm like, how many times do wehave to tell you guys, if you
need to saw through something,we understand, but you just
gotta ask us, like, just ask us,like, just ask us.
We've given them like themanuals too, you know of like
Trust, joyce Institute stuff,yeah, and it never fails to

(24:15):
surprise me where I'm like.
Once again, here we are and nowI got to backbill you because
now my carpenter's got to repairthe Joyce and everybody's
pissed off.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Everybody's pissed.
How much is the repair of aJoyce like that?

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I mean it's like the full thing you got to do, or
what the last one was the lastone where this happened, where
it was the same shit.
It was the same stuff.
It was like the electriciansjust kind of went nuts and I
went, and this is the third timewe had then had to get after
them.
Finally, the boss had a bigmeeting with his guys.
It was about five, six thousand, so not cheap.

(24:48):
I mean, you know, if their bidwas 50, 50 000, that's 10,
that's, that's your profit.
Good job, yeah yeah, it's a.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's a tough business for sure.
Eric is in the middle of a bigproject.
Personally, he's got, he boughtthis, this site, and he's
building.
He, it's a.
It's a on a giant hill and hehas this crazy driveway that
winds up the hill.
That was done wrong the firsttime and he's out there.
He's got all this heavyequipment he likes operating now

(25:18):
, and now he's going to build acommercial building at the base
of this thing that he can use asa toy storage and party center
and then build his mansion uptop with smaller houses for each
of his kids as his master plan.
And so, anyway, you know Eric,of course he's talking with

(25:41):
builders and my first advice tohim is like, get yourself
somebody that can plan thiswhole thing, this site plan,
plan this master plan.
Please.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
These contractors, you can't trust these guys, man
so mark, mark embellished themagnificence of his property.
He does it every, every time hegets a chance, I mean it's,
it's not that much, but it isreally was a one.
I mean, I did find myself becomea developer all of a sudden.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
I was just trying to be ahomeowner building a house,

(26:14):
Right, yeah, man, I mean I'vedealt with.
I mean utilities are cutting anew sewer, main or main pipe
that runs pressure pipe Twelveinch going through my property.
You know all these easementsrides.
I mean it's just, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I have clients, a lot like first time, first
time developers, right, we havea lot of those.
And, uh, this gal there's.
There was this gentlemanactually probably like four or
five years ago, and we do thesegroup assisted group homes, so
like they're for dementiapatients.
It's a really good feel goodtypology that we do.
And he so he buys this huge, uh, single family house and then
it's zoned up in Fort Collinswhere it can actually be

(26:51):
converted in this way and in thepreliminary we signed the
contract and we have thepre-application meeting with the
city and they start throwingall the red tape at us, right,
and he calls me back and I go,because I always have that Like
after those meetings, I'm like,would you like?
I'm like, hey, should we have aquick recap of Colin?
And he's like panicking.
And I'm like, would you lookback?
I'm like, hey, should we have aquick recap of Colin?
And he's like panicking.
And I'm like, welcome todevelopment.

(27:12):
You're officially a developer.
And he didn't realize that hewas like.
He just like did not want toown that title.
And I'm like, look, I don'tknow why you don't want to own
that title, but you got to manup about it because like that
you are doing real estatedevelopment like get put the hat
on.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know it's a lot of pain yeah, I don't know about
in fort collins, but here ifyou're a developer, the
presumption is you're a criminal, you're greedy, you're rich and
you have unlimited funds.
Okay to do anything they wantyou to do.
That's the presumption that yougo into it with with the city,

(27:50):
particularly here infayetteville where I live.
Um eric's moved out offayetteville.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Now he's over there in benton county, which is a
little different, but uh well,the most, the most surprising
thing to me is that there's notanyone that really knows
anything for sure and it'salways.
it's always and it's always anastronomical fee for everything.
It's like, I mean, I reallyfeel like everyone's just trying

(28:17):
to basically retire justbecause I have, you know, I have
some land and I'm trying tobuild something.
I mean it's the most insanescenario.
And then I don't know that I'vebeen, I mean, and the work is
almost always done, right, youknow, but there's always

(28:37):
something Like I get trashed, Iget left behind.
It's just like when people comedo work, like I don't
understand, like when we had thedry land, the concrete.
I mean you know good, you gotthe project done,
congratulations.
But you walk up thereafterwards and there's like
freaking two by fours layingaround everywhere T-shirts,
water bottles, I mean rebar.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, at least they didn't leave piss bottles, did
they?

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Because that's the other part of it.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
I'm just like never shocked at like every single job
site Doesn't matter how much wereprimand people, doesn't
matter how much we remind them,doesn't matter, even if I have
sent my son.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
How many porta potties you got.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, it doesn't matter, it's like the weirdness.
There's going to be one weirdgoofy thing.
I swear to God, we's we, wewere we, we like we are.
We were reworking on our, ourcontracts with owners and
they're like we're having to putin like a checklist of like 10
things I need to them, them toinitial at the end of it, for

(29:41):
example, like client understands, you know there will be
anomalies on the, on the jobsite, such as you know, and I'm
like possible feces, like I'mnot joking, because it's like
how do you, how do you get thesepeople we're going to build one
time in their lives tounderstand what we know for?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
30 years, lance.
That's so.
That's so funny.
My wife my wife does some workfor clients, design work and
inevitably they sucker intobringing in subs okay, which is
always a mistake, but the lastproject she did, they found
feces in the crawl spacesomebody went down there.

(30:19):
now why would they think that'sokay I mean, it's all plastic
and it's insulated and it's free, you know it's gonna be
inspected, okay and thatsomebody goes down there and
does and it's, you know it'sgoing to be inspected, ok.
And then somebody goes downthere and does that.
It's just mind boggling.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
It is.
It's totally mind blowing.
I mean, my wife and I secondwife when we, when we built we,
we designed, built and developedthis beautiful house it was
like we had, you know, our fourchildren and all that
masterpiece and the, the amountof like at the end, eric, you're
talking about like the trash itwas like, and and the
development, the where the housewas is in a brand new

(30:57):
development.
Um, very like well-to-doneighborhood bunch of doctors,
lawyers and all this other stuff.
Everybody finished their housealmost the same time and then we
all went and met the neighborsand stuff when we were we need
to have a community cleanup day,so we'd add a community.
It was just like, garbage bagafter garbage bag after garbage
bag, and in the garbage bags,like over and over again, the

(31:19):
kids would be finding likehere's a piss bottle, here's
another one.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
I'm like oh my God.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
But it wasn't just our property, it was like all
over the place.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
I'm literally I think that there's like through my
experiences with this, you knowjust entrepreneurial thinking.
I'm like I'm gonna start afreaking construction company
and I don't have to know a dangthing about it, but I'm gonna
call it clean construction.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
No kidding dude I have, I have, I have thought of,
I have thought of a paintingcompany just like that, where
it's sober painters, that's allit's called that's called only
hire mexican painters.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Okay, here they are not.
They're the ones.
It's like we have white guys ordo we have mexicans?
It's, it's supposed to be doneon next tuesday.
Do we have white guys ormexican?
We have mexican.
Okay, it'll be done.
Yeah, we have white guys.
Oh, no, forget it.
You know, as soon as we writetheir check on Friday afternoon,
they go to the casino inOklahoma and blow it and they're
calling us at 10 o'clock askingfor an advance on the next

(32:17):
payment.
But you know, it's so true.
I mean, it's funny how we'vedigressed into this.
But so I've got a landscaperthat I use and we're doing this
house.
That's two doors away and he'sa great guy.
You know, he came out ofcorporate America and he got
into this business and it'squote retirement gig and so I

(32:38):
just had him do a whole bunch ofwork on this property, all
right, removing railroad ties,bringing a machine in, regrading
, getting rid of all these rocksand everything.
And then, you know, remulchingthe beds and and things like
that, and you know what?
At the end I go around andthere are water bottles thrown

(32:58):
in each of the beds.
I picked five water bottles up.
It's like you guys did thiswhole thing.
And then they just throw awater bottle in the bed and
there's a dumpster right there.
It's not like you know, it's a20 cubic yard dumpster and the
kid and it's like I'm gonnaleave my little rat turds there

(33:19):
as evidence that I've been hereor something it blows my mind.
And then and then, here's a pileof rocks and and pieces of
concrete and stuff that's justleft right there in one place.
You know, it's like 15 feetaway from the dumpster.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
And it's like I mean, I guess, like it's just amazing
that I just can't even imagine,dude, I'd wig out every time
Like I was that guy that wasobviously not experiencing
construction and everybody knewit, because I'd be like I just
I'm literally in my brain.
I cannot comprehend, can'tsquare, why you would leave all
that shit after you get donewith your job.

(34:02):
I mean, it's like, did mom anddad never tell you, pick up
after yourself?
Yeah, I mean, is that, doesthat?

Speaker 1 (34:09):
exist.
That exist.
Listen, I'll give you anotherone.
I got a carpenter working onthis house and I had some
exterior repairs that were allminor.
Okay, this is after we did allthe exterior repairs, then
painted it, and then stuffevidenced itself after it was
painted.
I don't know if you ever havethat problem, lance, but I did
in this case like, yeah, now thesoffit looks like it's

(34:29):
delaminating, but you couldn'ttell before because it was all
dirty and flat or whatever.
So he fixes it and you knowwhat I find yesterday?
A pile of materials on the roofof the garage that you see from
the street.
Why was that left there?
Okay, now I got to get somebodyto freaking, get a ladder and

(34:53):
climb up there and take thisstuff down.
But let's just bring this backto a business conversation.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
But, guys, I just want to say I'm glad we talked
about that stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Hey, like I think it's therapeutic for all of us.
It is, but it probably is forour audience, but also I mean
from a business conversation.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I think it is a business conversation it is
because this is where theopportunity is for people like
Lance.
All right can identify with hiscustomer base and the way
they're thinking his client baseand maybe be a little bit
better able to relate to sort oftheir orientation, values and

(35:37):
thought process and what'simportant to them, and then just
doing a better job in littleways creates an opportunity to
have a growth company in a verycrowded market.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, exactly that's why.
That's why I sorry Iinterrupted earlier, Eric about
like the, the, the soberpainters, Cause I mean I'm so
glad you're on the samewavelength, it's like, and this
is honestly what I've beentrying to tell people.
This is why I do.
You know we have a podcast too,and that's why I try to really

(36:11):
explain this to people or justput the idea in the ether of
there is a huge opportunity inthe blue collar environment
right now to start a company andmake a ton of money and then,
like, have honor in your lifejust because you know you could
support a family much more thangoing to going to school, for

(36:33):
and I'm a professor and I'msaying there's too many kids
going to school, way too manykids I could probably hunt
probably a 50 percent don't needto be here.
It just devalues the degreesand it's like look at all these
opportunities that lance andmark and eric are talking about,
If you can white collar someblue businesses.
I had a guy reach out to me onLinkedIn like about a year ago.

(36:56):
Local guy out of nowhere, camein and talked to me and he goes
look, I buy businesses.
He goes.
I'm not trying to buy yourbusiness.
But I know you're this localentrepreneur who has all these
companies and is prettysuccessful.
It's like, do you have anyideas for me for what to buy?
And I go plumbing.
If you could white collar aplumbing business, oh my god,

(37:17):
you would make money.
Handle.
It makes me so mad.
I'm like I want to do it no,that's the problem, right.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Like there's so many opportunities like you get,
we're getting paralyzed becausewe just don't have enough time
to do it.
But I mean like, yeah, it'strue, here's, you know, here's
the thing, like, when I thinkabout business, what's what's so
wonderful about theconstruction business is that
you don't need so many, youdon't need such a high quantity

(37:42):
of sales yes like if you're, ifyou're branding houses, how many
can do you?
I mean you could.
You could be at eight jobs ayear and you would be freaking,
stacked and doing really well.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well, you're paying your framers too much if you
think that, eric.
But anyway, I said you'repaying your framers too much if
you think that.
But we'll come back to that one.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
No, what is it?
What do you mean?
What do you?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
mean by that?
I mean, you know, here you canget framers for like $5.50 or $6
a square foot.
No, no, no, I mean like eightprojects in the year.
I understand, but I'm saying,if I had eight projects and
they're 4,000 square foot houses, then I'm only getting like
$20,000 out of that project.
So eight of them would be$160,000.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
It's not great, I'm just doing the back of the
envelope.
Man, you went really deep bro,it went so deep.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
You went well, marcus wog and general contractor and
you're building houses that costa million five.
Yeah, I'll agree with that okay.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
so yeah, because, like I mean, first of all,
that's a good point.
Yeah, if I was starting abusiness, I wouldn't be trying
to do mass freaking construction.
I'd be going after very highnet worth income folks that have
the money, yes, and like to paycash if they need to.
No problems there.
So I would target that audienceand then I would do just.
You know the quantity enough.

(39:06):
So I'm doing a really good jobbecause you know that's like you
don't have to go out and do somuch of a sales process.
Yes, you could.
Just because my thing is islike, if I paid you to do work
right and you did a good job andyou and literally you will ruin
everything that you did, that'sgood.
If I had to pick up waterbottles in framing, framing

(39:27):
freaking hardware and whateverthe hell else is going on by
myself because I'm, I'm justlike it just ruins your
reputation.
But if you did it well andcleaned up, I would go tell my
other rich friggins exactly, usethese people, and you would.
You could probably have 30years worth of business.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
And that's exactly our sales funnel, eric.
Yeah, because people will cometo us and they're like you build
too, I love it and I go.
Yep, we build too, but not foreverybody and it's very
selective.
They have to be like.
Our criteria is you got to bewithin 30 to 45 minutes of my
office, because in case of anemergency, I need to be there.
You got to be cash, and sothey're high net worth

(40:10):
individuals.
Not that we're skirting the IRS,even though I hate taxes, it's
just that I don't want to dealwith the banks.
Why do I have earned theprivilege of not dealing with
the bank, hopefully, and then Igot to like the client, so we
get to interview them throughthe architectural process.
It's awesome To go on the frontof the envelope, though, eric,
of what you were saying is likethere's also a very low startup

(40:31):
cost, exactly To join to do oneof these trades.
You could just be a guy in apickup, that's what.
Like Gary Johnson, I don'tremember him.
He ran for president, hestarted for the Libertarian
Party and that's what he did.
He was just a guy in a truck,and then he grew this
multimillion dollar company justout of the back of his truck.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
It was amazing, that's probably how they do it
right.
I mean, like you do see, thesedevelopers like there's some
around here that are, I mean,like freaking stack loaded man,
like the family is just, I meanthey're good for three, you know
, you know legacies,multi-generational wealth.
Legacies, multi-generationalwealth.
It's probably because they wereone out of the thousand that

(41:13):
were actually doing good work,good project management, good
communication and good follow-upand cleanup, and they didn't
ruin the reputation and theybuilt wealth.
And then everybody else isgoing.
I don't understand why I can'tget that.
I don't understand why in theirminds, they can't put that
together.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
We have a like what I say is be brilliant at the
basics, like that's a motto ofours, that both companies just
be brilliant at the basics,that's all it's like, so simple
there's so many businesses likethat.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
They're mature markets.
You don't have to convinceanybody that they need it.
They know they want their houseor their building or whatever.
Right.
It's not like I got to goconvince them to go build
something.
They know they need it and yetthe providers that are out there
are all mediocre or themajority of them are just

(42:03):
mediocre.
So if you just do basic stuffand do it well, you can be
successful.
There's just a millionbusinesses like that.
I don't care if we're talkingabout restaurants or lawn
services or car repair orwhatever.
It just translates to the samething.
And then there are people likeyourself.

(42:26):
We're intelligent people.
They're motivated.
They're not going to just shutdown at five o'clock I'm sure
you don't Um and you know or theweekend, because shit comes up
right.
I mean it's you know and andand.
Then you go out there and youjust do well, because you do

(42:48):
these things that other peopleare not doing.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Because you do these things that other people are not
doing.
I had a tree or a yeah, I guessa tree trimming company come
out Best contractor I ever metin my life.
Dude, I mean just did awesomeand I had so much other work and
he just never would call meback.
I'm like bro, why I?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
got the tree guy for you when you need him next time.
Bud, okay, yeah fantastic.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
good, yeah, I'm not a holler at you, but I mean I'm
just like, why do people let itdie on the phone like that?
Well, it's like why I mean like, like, can you, can you like
being in the business?
Can you express the psychologythat's going on with folks that
would do something like that,like on some of these
contractors?
I wish I knew I wish I knew.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I wish I knew.
I know it's like I don'tunderstand it.
I don't understand it andbecause that's how we operate
both that's how we operate allof our businesses is we have a
rule with communication.
It's like there's F9.
I've told you the origin storyof it previously but, like then,
there's nine principles that wemade up for.
Number four is communication.

(43:56):
So our staff in both companiesis trained to.
You got to get back.
When we get an inquiry, aquestion, whatever, you got to
get back to that person internal, external within one hour and
it could be as simple as got it.
I'm looking into it, Thank you.
Make them feel as if they'rethe number one client.
You can go, look at our Googlebusiness reviews and they
literally say that they're likeI know we weren't there Smallest

(44:20):
clients, like small job, acouple thousand dollars, you
know, for architecture orsomething like that, Just simple
stuff, and they'll leave us afive-star review because they
know we have huge clients andthey go.
But they made me feel likenumber one and then if they
can't get back to them with adetailed answer, that's fine.
I'm 24 hours but that's it, andI don't know how many times
I've picked up a phone in thepast 15 years where I go, F9

(44:45):
Productions, Lance speaking oh,you're like the 10th architect
I've tried to get a hold of andI'm like cool, Like thank you,
other architects for being socrappy at your job.
So I don't understand.
On even the white collar side,Eric, I wish I did yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
It's nuts, man, it is nuts.
There's just no magic to thisstuff.
You know, I teachentrepreneurship here.
I've been doing it for 20 years.
I also taught in the school ofarchitecture for a couple years.
Lance, a class calledeverything they don't usually
teach you at architecturalschool.
Oh cool, that was the fifthyear students and uh but like a

(45:23):
pro practice.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Like a pro practice kind of, yeah, except it was
even more than pro practice.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
I mean the pro practice.
They just focus on the B one,41, nine or whatever the hell
the architectural contract was,and more about liability and
stuff.
I would take them out in thefield and say, okay, here's a
carpenter, ask this guy what theproblem is with the plans that
you guys prepare.
Okay, and so they'd tell them.
Or you know, bring inarchitects who make $15 million

(45:51):
a year to talk to him, becausetheir professors are like you
can't make any money in thisbusiness and you got to take a
vow of poverty.
And you know, yeah, and ifyou're not breaking new ground,
doing something that's neverbeen done before, you've failed.
Yeah, like it's totally badprogramming terrible.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
I agree, mark, I gotta.
I really want to have you onour show then to do an episode
of that.
That would be fantastic.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
I would love to hear that but it's great, I'd love to
do it.
But anyway, I was just gonnasay I always say to my
entrepreneurship students it'sjust not that hard to be
successful if you just have somecommon sense and you do the
work.
That it takes, you know.
Just do the work, be responsive, do what you say you're going

(46:36):
to do, follow up, you know a bigthing to you.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Here's what I would add to that.
Like, I agree a hundred percentwork ethic, but value other
people's money yeah, that's.
That's another thing that wedid, especially in the yeah
that's another thing Treat itlike it's your own, especially
in the construction industry.
It's like is my money?
I mean like I literally feellike is this $100 that I'm
giving you is not the same typeof $100 that you get?

(47:01):
I mean, don't you need, don'tyou want this $100 bill?
Is it not value to?
Can you not use this thingBecause, like it?

Speaker 4 (47:11):
feels like I'm just taking and just trashing it, man
.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
I mean like cause, if I get a business, you know, if
I get a hundred bucks, it's a.
I mean dude, I'm like man, thisis thank you, you know.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
I appreciate this money and what I'm doing.
Yeah, mark was asking is likehow is how?
Is then like us being buildersalso then round sort of had a
feedback loop into thearchitecture firm with costs and
stuff, right, yes, so that'syou, eric.
You actually answered it for me, eric, which was then now we're
conscious of people's money asit applies to design, right.

(47:55):
So a really good example latelyis, uh, these little tenant
finishes.
Right now the market for us is,uh, for building and even
architecture is like there'sstill people in the commercial
sector doing a lot of work.
Little businesses are stillstarting up.
Uh, you know, the 10, thethousandth is 2 000 square foot
um, they're going to start up adog doggy daycare or something
like that.
There's still a lot of thatgoing on.
The multifamily is completelydead.
But one of the big factors islike cost factors right away is

(48:17):
what's going to be the most costeffective way to frame this in
the inside?
And it's like steel, studs orwood and we're back to wood and
that has been a big piece latelyon these tenant finishes that
I'm going after on theconstruction side that we've
designed is like and then theinterest rates are very high
still.
So we're having people really,really having to shave things

(48:41):
off and it's like, can we still?
Can we frame this with woodinstead of steel and still work
with code and all the other goodstuff?
And I try to bring thoselessons right back into the firm
, the architecture firm, fromthe field all the time and have
a feedback loop constantfeedback loop that is so
critical.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
I mean I just what you were just saying about
tenant build outs.
I mean I'll never forget.
So years ago I had a friend andI lived in the boston area and
he broke away from Skidmore SOMhe was a senior associate there,
you know brand namearchitecture firm and started
his own firm that did tenantbuildouts for commercial clients

(49:19):
.
That's all they did is tenantbuildouts, office work office
and maybe a little retail,Anyway.
So we have a new 10,000 squarefoot office we were doing and it
didn't need much.
Okay, we said our budget was 200grand to do this job because
that was the deal we negotiatedwith the landlord for him to put

(49:40):
200 K into it.
And it comes back with thisdesign and we get the contractor
that the developer owner workedwith and it comes in.
The price is $440,000.
Like, how can you miss it bythat much?
Okay, $200,000 or $440,000?

(50:02):
Because you have no sense ofwhat the ceiling is going to
cost.
All right, Just nothing.
You have no sense of what theelectrical is going to cost here
.
In any case, we went directlyto the contractor and my
business partner, Fred White,who was just an intelligent guy,
just value engineered it, gotthe whole thing done for 180

(50:22):
grand.
I mean, you know, it just was amatter of simple changes here
and there that ended up reducingthe cost by that much, because
he had more common sense aboutcosts and wasn't even that
knowledgeable about constructioncompared to the architect.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, I know it's, you know one of the.
So we use this piece of stuffwe're called Revit Architecture.
Oh yeah, revit, we use Revit,yeah, and what I do is I, I try
to, I try to update it once ayear with what things cost so
that my, my architects are armedwith it.
So like, for example, we getthis question a lot.
It's a well, that's saying, youknow, that sounds expensive, or

(51:08):
that reaction, rather like thatWe'll talk about a steel beam
and they'll go sure, that soundsexpensive.
Well, I have, I have the steelbeam.
Uh, in revit, I have it uh, uh,correlated to a cost per lineal
foot, according to the poundpoundage, which hasn't really
changed too much, especiallysince, after covid and printing,
all the money and everything,we're kind of stabilized.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
well, it's going to go up now, depending on where
the steel comes from.
Yeah, depending, yep.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
But now my architects can go oh, actually, let me
just show you that's what itcosts.
And they go oh, that's actuallynot that much.
You know stuff like that.
We try to just be a little.
All it took is a couple littletweaks for us to be totally
different than the otherarchitects in colorado yeah, I
see so many things that are done.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
I just wonder what are they smoking?
I mean, why does it need thisgiant cantilever here when we
could stick a column right thereand make this whole thing cost
200 grand less?

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I don't understand it , but I see it every day I think
it's the lack of appreciationof the value of money, like when
, when people like if they'rewanting, they get a sense that
there's money, but they don'tever think about how hard that
person probably has worked forthat money.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
This house we're doing right now.
Eric has a detached garage.
It's all connected with coveredwalkways and stuff Not much,
but it's covered and the garagehas a cantilever off the back
that's like five feet.
So when you pull your car in,you got five more feet of
cantilevered space.

(52:40):
Now what do you do with that?
Nothing.
It's like two feet off theground to four feet off the
ground.
No purpose for it, it's just'sjust dirt.
Okay and it added to the cost.
It just makes no sense at all.
It was completely dumb.
How do you account for stufflike that?

Speaker 3 (53:01):
I think that that's the same stuff that like runs
right, but through the softwareindustry, for design industry,
you know, like creative design,like folks get too busy and then
they're just trying to pushthings through, push things
through.
There's not enough check,auditing, qa checking, going on,
you know, and it's hard forsome people to qa check

(53:21):
themselves, which I think hasbeen in existence for a long
time like even caught.
That's why you have copyeditors for newspapers, right,
sure you know, and so it's justhard for people to do that.
But I mean, I think a businessthat would put that process in
place would save a lot of grief.
Because when that's what you'retalking about, like when you go
to a client with a proposal andyou have things that you cannot

(53:43):
answer and you're sitting downwith money and they're like
questioning it but you're like,well, it's just what it costs,
you're ruining that relationship.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
But if you can go there a little bit and you've
done a QA, that meeting goes somuch better.
If you know why you have thenumbers that you do and you can
back them up, then things go on.
The client's happy, the projectmoves on, you get the job.
I mean, it went.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
It even starts before the proposal lately.
For me, anyway, I I'm just liketo you know, even though I I we
talked about me having a sortof a sour taste at the end of
our first development, like the,the silver lining and the
caveat that is super positiveabout it has been like when I
get developers that come in forthe first time, I'm speaking
their language right away.
I've been there, yeah, like Ihaven't even shown them numbers,

(54:36):
I haven't even.
It's like I'm already theirtrusted advisor guiding them
through this process, evenbefore we present their proposal
.
I've already won, like I'vealready got them hook, line and
sinker.
I mean it's just like the ease.
It's so dramatically easier, somuch more dramatically easier
than when we first started andwe didn't have that under our
belt.
Like, especially when they comeinto our office and I go oh, by

(54:57):
the way, we designed, built anddeveloped this, the amount of
confidence it gives them at theend of the day is just
unbelievable.
And that's what they want they,they need it, they want a
trusted advisor.
It's like, as much as maybe weall probably don't like
attorneys like I do love a goodattorney.
Amen, like you know, like we'reinvaluable, absolutely.
Yep, that's my trusted advisor.
I need, I need him to.

(55:17):
I need brett to pick up thephone that's my guy yeah, hey
guys, I have to run to another.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Y'all can keep chatting, maybe, no, we're gonna
wrap it up here.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Eric, we've got, we've got to move on.
But I mean we could talk withlance here probably all day
about this stuff.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
I know you guys could like spend years together.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Yeah, I mean, I just think you know.
In summary, if I were tosummarize this discussion, lance
demonstrates what one can do ina very crowded market.
Where it's a big market, demandis high.
There's a zillion providers outthere to differentiate yourself
.
Okay, he's become morevertically integrated, you know,

(56:01):
started as a design firm, thenwas a contractor, then was a
developer.
That helps him really be ableto better relate to his clients.
And he's got his basicprinciples that you follow, such
as respond to everybody in onehour.
F4 of f9.
This is not brain surgery,people.

(56:23):
Okay, you can make yourself adamn good business if you
operate with some freakingcommon sense and act like you
really care.
All right, you don't have toreinvent anything new here, and
that's you know.
I think if anything's been amessage of this podcast over and

(56:43):
over, it's you know this commonperception of what
entrepreneurship is in popculture.
Yeah, it invents something new.
Yeah, not necessary.
Okay, then you know, go out andtest the market as to whether
they like it or not.
We know they need x.

(57:07):
They buy millions and billionsof dollars with a bit and then
go raise outside equity capital.
Okay, you're just one moredemonstration of that lance.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Well, thanks, mark I mean isn't that true?
Well, what I do is, I like tosay to even my design students
is I'm like the wheel was onlyinvented one time.
That's it.
Quit pretending like you got toinvent the wheel again.
Just modify the wheel, that'sit.
All you got to do is tweak thewheel, make it run better,
that's done.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Just just make the damn thing and make sure it
freaking, it doesn't break youknow that's a common uh failing
of architectural education rightthere, yeah, but that's like a
subject for a completelydifferent podcast.
Yeah, on why they are notequipped to go out into the
business world and practice asprofessionals and actually make

(58:02):
a living.
So, all right, well, this hasbeen a lot of fun.
Lance, we wish you the best.
If somebody wants to reach outto you, what is your contact
information?

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah, just go to LinkedIn.
I'm the only one that's withthis name spelled L-A-N-C-E.
Last name Psycho C-A-Y-K-O.
You can also sign up with ournewsletter at f9productionscom
and please check out our podcastinside the firm podcastcom.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
And where is that available to view?
Oh YouTube.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
You can see all platforms.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
YouTube, itunes, spotify all the good stuff
Sounds great, all right, well,lance, we appreciate your time
today and wish you very muchsuccess, continued success in
your future endeavors.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Beautiful.
Thanks, guys Appreciate you.
Thank you, lance, good to meetyou more.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Thanks, Lance, Until next time.
This has been another episodeof that Big Talk.
Talk about Small BusinessBusiness.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk about Small

(59:30):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
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