Ep. 81 - Why Your Work Culture Matters More Than Your Office Perks

What really creates a thriving business culture? Forget the ping pong tables and office kegs – it's about treating people with respect, allowing them to fail, and making them feel valued. Successful entrepreneur Ben Clark shares the raw, unfiltered story of his journey from struggling student to business leader.

Ben's path wasn't conventional. Battling severe dyslexia that left him unable to pass tests, he developed exceptional people skills to compensate. After being suspended from college and buying a small t-shirt company in 2006, he faced an immediate crisis when his only artist quit. With no equipment, no drawing skills, and limited resources, Ben persevered through sheer determination.

The growth of Be Unlimited mirrors what Ben calls "building a fort" – people coming together organically, each bringing something valuable to the collective effort. This philosophy helped the company survive the 2008 financial crisis and eventually grow to a $20 million business with over 100 employees. By finding a niche in university apparel and focusing on creating an exceptional product through water-based screen printing and quality design, they carved out a distinctive market position.

Now splitting his time between business and philanthropy, Ben has founded Bold Creators, mentoring entrepreneurs in Uganda. His experiences there have reinforced his belief that work isn't something to escape from but a fundamental part of identity and purpose. True fulfillment comes not from accumulating possessions but from creating, building, and helping others succeed.

Whether you're starting your entrepreneurial journey or leading an established business, Ben's insights on authentic culture-building, finding your niche, and maintaining purpose beyond profit offer a refreshing perspective on what really matters in business and life.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's not about the ping pong table in the office.
It's not about having a beerkeg or kegerator.
Exactly, those things are fun.
Those actually can bedistractions more than anything,
but it's really just aboutlistening to people, making sure
they feel validated justallowing people to fail.
Those things are what reallybring Treating people with

(00:20):
respect.
Treating people with respectyeah, they're all valuable.
That's what really brings agood culture, honestly.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
All right, here we are everybody.
Yeah, baby, we are back in thestudio with our friend and
experienced entrepreneurextraordinaire.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Who's going?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
to teach us today, learn us.
Anybody who knows Ben andpretty much everybody around
here knows Ben have you evernoticed that?
Oh yeah, totally.
They all say oh Ben, he's sucha nice guy.
Well, that's why I named you.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Ben all the time.
I'm like man, I mean I workwith Ben all the time.
I mean you know him, I Ben allthe time.
I'm like man.
I mean I work with Ben all thetime you know him.
I'm friends with Ben.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
I'm glad you can trust me it's like I got one of
Ben's shirts on right now.
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Ben taught me everything I know.
You can sign a deal with me.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
He is such a great guy, but anyway, we need to open
it up.
This is another episode of BigTalk, small Business.
All right, we're here in thestudio with Ben, and Ben is the
founder of a company known as BeUnlimited that he's going to

(01:42):
tell us all about today.
How did you get that?
I'll start off with.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I mean just to correct you, mark, that I'm not
the founder.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Oh, that's right, I forgot you bought that.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Although, yeah, I bought it when it was a small
company and I just kind of grewit from there.
I forgot it was a good friendof mine that had it.
It was an opportunity he hadstarted it Brian Reindl, and
then he got into the real estatedeal and, yeah, the rest is
history for him.
Gosh, that guy Brian's a greatguy.

(02:12):
I love.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Brian.
We should have Brian on theshow.
We should have him on the show.
He's doing the new hotel indowntown.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Fayetteville.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Oh, really yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I love Brian.
He's such a cool guy.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
We've been.
I love Brian.
He's such a cool guy.
We were college roommates forthe short amount of time that I
was in college, just likeanything.
I was actually reading the bookthe Meaning of Marriage not too
long ago.
Why, at this stage of my life.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
I'm reading that book .

Speaker 1 (02:41):
I don't know You're such a huge fan of Brian, but it
said this guy was talking aboutthere's.
He's been married 28 times whoawait what?

Speaker 4 (02:51):
oh my god, I thought you gotta have him on the show
there is something seriouslywrong.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, that's exactly what I'm thinking and, as I kept
reading, it seriously wrong.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
he says they've changed 28 times and so he's
been with the same woman, butthey just changed 28 times
through their marriage.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, it's not just they meaning him as well.
Yeah, oh, that's true, both ofthem.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
And so when you say that, so a lot of times, even
when you talk about a founder oreven buying a business, this
business has been.
I mean, I've owned severalbusinesses within this one
business yeah honestly I meanbecause it's changed so many
times.
So in a lot of ways I am afounder of many businesses
within be unlimited, because Imean we've just gone up and down

(03:38):
so many times, so it's just.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
That's a really cool point yeah, it actually makes me
feel better about myself wellyou know.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
You know I'm on wife number three, right?
I mean I'm not saying it shouldmake you feel better.
I always tell my students I go.
You can either think that myrelationship advice is worthless
, or you could say maybe I'velearned something.
Yeah, you know the choice isyours.
I think you have learned a lot,but no, that's an interesting

(04:06):
way to look at it, ben.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour history, and I'm sorry I
forgot that, because I did knowBrian started it.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
But tell us more about your history and how you
got into business.
I mean my history, I meangrowing up as a kid.
I mean I think this is where itreally starts, right, yeah,
when you're a kid, and so yousit there and you think about.
You know, I had dyslexia.
I had add, had a really hardtime in school everybody has add
dan, that's nothing, thatwasn't diagnosed back then, but
trust me, I had add not to getthe drug.

(04:38):
I understand I really are forreal.
All of us have, All of us have.
I get it Exactly that onedoesn't count anymore.
I guess, right.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Just forget that.
Dyslexia.
I'm sure that presented somechallenges it was pretty severe.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, really, I literally did not pass a test
growing up and the team wouldjust kind of keep moving me on,
but I kept it hidden, you know,and I just kind of like really
kept it hidden.
So I just my people skillsprobably grew because of that
during that time.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
You were ducking and dodging the circumstance.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, yeah and it helped you.
Yeah, Well, I think it's helpedme later on in life with just
owning a business.
Honestly.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Have you seen that new dyslexia center that Don
Nelm says yeah, because business, honestly so.
Have you seen that new dyslexiacenter that don gnome says yeah
, because you know he was?
Dyslexic too, and he's beenvery successful I know, yeah, so
if you have a kid out there,that's dyslexic.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Don't worry about them.
They're going to end upsupporting you one day yeah,
they'll be entrepreneurs rightyou're gonna have to think
outside the box, and that's whatyou have to do as an
entrepreneur.
You have to think outside thebox.
You don't do it kind of the thetraditional school way, you
know right, a lot of times thatjust makes you a good employee,
you know, yeah, so it's uh,instead of being an owner or an

(05:53):
entrepreneur so you struggled inschool, though obviously you're
extremely intelligent guy, soyou got through high school.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Got through high school where'd?

Speaker 1 (06:01):
you grow up, grew up in north little rock, okay, went
to, uh, indian hills elementary, then northeast high school,
and this is.
And then I, uh, my counselorsaid, okay, you really need to
go to a trade school.
And I said trade school.
My brothers are at theuniversity of arkansas.
I really I've never not thoughtabout anything, but just going
to the university, yeah, so Icame up here to the university

(06:23):
and they quickly saw that we'regoing to put you in all remedial
classes until you pass these togo on to the next thing and
honestly, I just did not do.
Well, I mean, they put me onprobation and then suspended me,
and then I tried to come backin and and I was sitting at the
front row, you know.
So it was just a.
So my learning skills were justnot the same way as most people,
which I think, in a lot of ways, probably end up being to my

(06:47):
benefit.
And so, yeah, but my dad taughtme how to work.
I mean, I was a paper boy inthird grade, I was a dishwasher
when I was, you know, 12.
Right, and then I mean, really,I was, I was cleaning.
You worked your butt off.
Yeah, I was working my butt off?
Exactly, yeah, cleaning tablesat a restaurant until I was 18,

(07:07):
you know.
And then I came up here tofayetteville and I I worked at
chick-fil-a for a little whileat the mall unit just opened up,
uh, when chick-fil-a was only300 stores in the nation and um,
and then I probably learnedsomething from that experience
about how to.
oh, I did, in fact, all three ofmy sons I made required them.
They'll hire someone at 14.
They usually hire three14-year-olds at any given store

(07:32):
and they have limited time andhours they can work and stuff.
But I've made all three of mysigns at 14.
You're going to work atChick-fil-A for two years.
It's like boot camp for you.
It's like boot camp.
Yeah, they have such a goodtraining yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Customer service yeah , they know how to serve.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Oh, they really do, it's just, and it stays with you
and it stays with me still, tothis day.
I'll still think about it.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know the way I treat others, and just though
it's just a great example of abusiness that's in a super
crowded market.
Yep, there's a zillioncompetitors.
I don't think their food is anybetter than any other chicken
place in my opinion, but theirservice is so good.
It's just that's how they standout.
Yeah, I'm trying, you know theymove their line faster.

(08:12):
They've got a smile on theirface.
If they see you struggling withsomething, they rush out there
to help you.
I mean, can you imagine that atMcDonald's or somewhere where
the worker behind the counter isgoing to come around and say,
let me help you get that to yourtable?
I mean it just would neverhappen.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Oh, yeah, yeah for sure.
So I think that all kind ofplayed into the part, sure, and
just not having a degreeactually forced me into
entrepreneurship.
You know, I wouldn't callmyself, like this, true
entrepreneur or serialentrepreneur or someone like
that, just flipping companiesout there and doing whatnot, but
you know, I literally had toget into it.

(08:47):
I didn't come from money and somy parents didn't have money to
help me kind of get started.
I had to kind of really dowhatever I could through, you
know, like through my house.
I think I used, you know, theequity in my house to help me
buy the business out from Brian,and then I actually, he, he
actually.
So tell people what the businesswas.

(09:08):
It was, well, being beinglimited, right.
So so tell them what it did.
It's a t-shirt company.
Okay, at the time it was just Iwould do whatever, and at the
time when I bought it I didn'thave any equipment.
It was just me and an artist,and that was my only staff that
I had, and so it was just in theroom about the size of this
room we're in right now, wow.

(09:28):
So that's why I say it's like a.
So, after taking that businessover, and then my artist quit,
and so then it was just me.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
I don't know how to draw.
I don't know how to print.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
I literally just kind of spiraled right then,
thinking what in the world?
It's like I've got thisbusiness I just paid for.
He's out, he's out.
I don't really know what I'mdoing.
I just kind of like I didn'thave any other opportunities.
So I just kind of took it.
So I finally found anotherartist and thought, man, I'll
never hire just one artistanymore, I've got to hire two

(10:10):
artists, just in case one ofthem quits on me, you know.
So I've got two artists andsomehow or another, I really
came across a reallyextraordinary artist.
Extraordinary artist.
I mean, he was an illustratorand he just, uh, he was working
in a coffee shop, uh, and uh, atthe hospital at washington
regional, just at a kiosk.
And I saw his art one day at anart show and I talked to him.

(10:33):
He said, oh yeah, he's, he'skind of done some screen
printing and he knew about itand, uh, he had worked for
another guy years earlier and Isaid, would you come work for me
while I'm looking for an artist?
I thought, you know, like astopgap temp measure?

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah, because you didn't know how to draw.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I didn't know how to draw, right, I didn't know how
to draw, right, I was asking,literally, if I saw it and this
did happen.
I was at the bank teller and Isaw this bank teller like uh,
doodling, and I thought do youknow how to draw?
Can you do something for mereal quick?
I really need your help.
So I mean, that's how itstarted.

(11:13):
I mean, must you know?
So?

Speaker 3 (11:15):
did you print, then I mean, you had I actually
outsourced all the printing.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh, so you outsourced it.
Okay, so I would wow, I wouldhave someone, uh, I would have a
, uh, distributor of t-shirts,uh, drop ship to a uh someone
that's like a contract printingcompany, yeah, and then they
would, uh, they would print itfor me, and that went on for
like 10 years.
I would try to buy a piece ofequipment but they would just
deny me because I didn't have mycredit.

(11:41):
Was it sucked?
I mean, like, just you know,you're pouring everything into
your business and trying to justmake it.
I mean, at the time I was doinglogos and maps and just you
asked me to do anything.
I'd be like, yeah, we can do it, you know.
And then I'd go back and try tofigure out how do I do this?
You know now, what year wasthis, ben gosh?
This was.
This wasn't even that long ago.
It doesn't feel like that.

(12:05):
I'm a late bloomer.
This was back in 2006.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Okay Is when you bought it from Brian.
Yeah, okay, 2006.
So then it took off from there.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
So then it took off from there.
Okay, actually, it didn'treally take off from there.
So then it took off from there.
Okay, actually, it didn'treally take off from there.
Then we kind of experienced thehousing market in 2007,.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
2008, right around there.
I was buying shirts from youthen for my construction company
.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
You were the only one you don't know this, but you
were the only one.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I bought shirts for me, thank you, because I was
hanging on by a thread and thefunny thing is, as a business
owner back then, you're justlike you're literally your
head's down, you're in your room, you're not talking to other
business people.
I wasn't watching the news.
I didn't know that the economywas crashing right now.
I thought it was just me.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
I really did.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I thought wow, it's like, here comes another failure
, I'm failing again.
It's going down fast.
I was like yeah, oh yeah, Ireally did.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
I thought it was just like it's going down fast, but
there's something to that,though We've talked about this a
lot, I don't watch the news.
I haven't watched the news in20-plus years.
This a lot.
I don't watch the news.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
I haven't watched the news in 20 plus years Me either
.
I don't watch it.
No point, man.
It's not like I have 24 hours aday.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
I can tell you about your intensity on a daily basis.
But I mean all it does is pushfear into me and there's nothing
I can do about it In most ofthe circumstances.
If it's something real serious,mark will tell me.
But I mean there's somethingabout the fact that you thought
it was you and so what you didwas you looked at every nook and

(13:53):
cranny of how you could dobetter and what you should and
shouldn't do.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
And you just focused on yourself and your business.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
And you ducked and dodged, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Exactly.
Ignorance, in a way, is a plus,because you don't know all the
reasons why you shouldn't besucceeding.
Oh right, you know what I mean.
You just do.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, you do what you have to do.
We had other businesses outthere struggling too, and so
they were underbidding me.
I mean, they were coming inwith these low prices, you know,
and it's like, and then I wouldstart saying I would drop my
prices down.
I dropped my prices down duringthat time and I'm literally I
mean, it cost me more to makethe shirt than I could, than I
was, and I didn't even know howto really do that.

(14:35):
I understand even my pricing.
Come on, ben, I mean thisbusiness is.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I mean, this business is a large business today.
Okay, yeah, so obviously youdid something right.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
I mean I just pushed, I pushed through, I persevered.
There you go.
I had a lot of grit, I stayedup late at night, okay, and I
worked through it.
And so just one of the printingcompanies that I was using at
the time that I was farming alot of printing out to, they
weren't paying their taxes andso they were struggling and so

(15:11):
they were going to get shut downor something, and so it got to
a point where I was able to buytheir equipment from them and
then bring them on as employees,and so that actually worked in
my favor at the time Like alittle acquisition basically,
what year was that Verticalintegration?
That was probably about 2000.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Golly, what year was that?
Is that when you were in theQuonset hut over there?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
That's when I was over there,so it was probably around.
It was the late to like 2018.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Okay, something like that.
So you had gone 10 years, thenyou bought this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you kind ofacquired this.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Maybe it's you're right, so it's 2006 when I
bought it, so it's probably likeit was probably about 2012.
I think it was 2012.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Okay, okay probably, like it was probably about 2012,
I think it's okay.
Well, okay, so it's on that.
You shocked me on any of thisstuff, are you?

Speaker 1 (16:08):
not prepared for this podcast.
No, like I told you earlier, Idon't prepare for anything, just
to get literally told you.
I've told people before I saidlisten.
If you listen to differentpodcasts that I've been on,
you'll think that I've.
It's totally differentcompanies.
They sound so different.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, had we gotten prepared for this, we would have
let you know the questions wemight ask.
So this is the way it's done.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
This is how it happens.
It's like real business.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
It's the best way.
It's so seriously, though, Ben.
So today, give us an idea, justso people listening have a
perspective.
How big is the company now?

Speaker 1 (16:44):
I mean altogether, we do close to $20 million.
Okay, wow, it's like it's, youknow.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
So how many employees do you have?

Speaker 1 (16:52):
We have about we don't have as many employees as
we used to, because we've beenable to downsize because of a
lot of More efficiency.
Yeah, more efficiency, yeah,just automation project, you
know.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, we've been able to downsize because of a lot of
more efficiency yeah, moreefficiency automation project,
you know, yeah, uh, so it's um,I'm thinking I have around a
hundred and something employees,wow, so it sounds like, you
know, he makes it sound likehe's just got some t-shirts
coming out of a truck orsomething.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
I mean, it's definitely an operation as of
today.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Honestly, as of today , I've been living down in
Florida and here half the year.
And as of today, I mean I'vegot a business partner, now that
we merged five years ago.
Okay, his name is Nathan Lott.
And also, as of today, we haveLaura Poe, who's the president
of BN Limited.
She's been there for 15 plusyears and she's running BN.

(17:45):
I mean, she really runs theday-to-day inside, she makes all
the important decisions andshe's done an incredible job.
So what do you do?
That's a good question.
That's what everybody else askstoo.
I hope they're not listening tothis podcast.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
It's like they're running that ass too.
I hope they're not listening tothis podcast.
It's like they're running andthey shouldn't come in.
That's right Now when they seeme coming, they probably don't
even know who I am.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Think you're somebody picking up some t-shirts.
Well, you've obviously beengood at picking people and
you've been able to keep goodpeople because you're a decent
human and you treat people withrespect.
I try and that treat peoplewith respect.
I try, and that makes a hugedifference.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I mean, one of my things was just I learned early
on that it's just better just tohire nice people and train them
and just people you want to bearound.
100%, 100%.
It just makes work so much moreenjoyable.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Amen to that.
Well, I mean, the reality islike any company, it's just the
people that are building thatcompany and you're working
around.
And I mean like when you spendmost of your time in there,
you've got to be able to getalong.
I mean, and when you get donewith life, like that's who you
spent most of your life with, itbetter be good people.
Yeah, oh yeah, for sure thatyou enjoyed being around

(18:59):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah, the thing is sometimes when you talk with
people about this, let's not saybusiness owners, necessarily,
but let's say the managers belowthem.
They'll say, oh, you just wantpeople who are, yes, people.
If you say you want to workwith people you like and you
don't want to sit there andargue all day, I think that's
ridiculous.
Yes, I do Personally, butthat's what you'll be accused of

(19:23):
.
If you say that by some of thequote professional managers,
okay, no, we don't want to haveeverybody pulling in different
directions and arguing all thetime about stupid stuff.
It's too toxic?

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah it is.
It can be really toxic and itjust can make it where you don't
want to go, to your office yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
And if you're demotivated it's a big problem.
I mean, let's face exactly.
Yeah, it's the owner of thebusiness for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
So I kind of look at being limited, like, honestly, I
didn't, I didn't go into beinglimited to build a big company
or even a mid-sized company.
I just I actually I was justdoing to survive, to get my kids
, you know, to have your horseson table, make my house payment
and stuff like that.
But as you hire people then youhave to start caring for others
and, as these young people thatI was hiring kind of straight

(20:11):
out of college, then they startgetting married and then have
babies and then you know theyneed to buy a house and it's
like it just kind of grew.
It's like we've got to make, wehave to do more.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
We, we have to do more, we have to make more, so
we can provide for these,provide for these other people
too.
So it's not about just me yeahthat's such a good point, isn't
it 100%.
I can relate to that entirely.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I was thinking about something yesterday.
I think that's pretty funny.
This is out of the blue, but Iwas kind of equating my life and
kind of the way that I dothings is.
It's kind of like me back as akid riding my bike in the woods,
if you can just think aboutthis for a second.
And you're riding in the woodsand you stop, you decide you're

(20:55):
going to you might see anotherkid with his bike.
You wave, you meet each other.
You say, hey, do you want tobuild a fort?
Yeah, you know.
They say, say, yeah, let'sbuild one, and you start putting
branches together and you startkind of building it.
The next day you meet him backout there and you do it again
and there's another kid thatjoins yeah, and then the next
day, you know, someone bringssome uh, you know rope or, and

(21:16):
someone brings a hammer or somecigarettes are cigarettes are
you kidding?

Speaker 3 (21:20):
me don't be rated g finish that though, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
It's really set up, so it's just like it was.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Just, I mean, it's just true and then you're
building this you're buildingthis fort and then all of sudden
you've become, you've bondedwith these other kids that you
know.
Then you see them in Walmart oryou see them at Kroger's or
something or at school andyou're fist bumping and you're
just kind of like all of asudden you've just kind of
formed a club.
You know you don't even really,you don't realize what you've
done it, it just kind ofhappened.

(21:59):
yeah, yeah it wasn't planned, itwasn't planned, and that's how
being has been.
I didn't have a visionstatement, I didn't have a, I
didn't have a, um, you know, aperformer, performer or just any
of that stuff at the early on,I mean, you know.
So it's just uh, we did havekind of an ethos that we had on
the wall and I didn't realize it, but it was, uh, be yourself,

(22:22):
be unique, be unlimited, andit's just it's words that were
up.
I like that, yeah, it'smeaningful.
I met a, uh, I met anothercompany that we do do we buy our
inks from, we do water-basedprinting and so and they're over
in the uk, and so I flew overto london with some of my guys
and we went up to their officeand it just felt like being
limited.

(22:42):
And then they said it soundslike we have the same ethos.
And I was like what's ethos?
And I'm looking on my phone tosee what ethos is and thought,
oh, wow, we do.
My ethos is written on the wall.
So I do have something written.
I don't have a mission statementor a vision statement or
anything.
But I do have an ethos.
It's on the wall and we kind ofdo live by that.
You know, because everybodyjust respects one another, it
doesn't matter where you fallpolitically or any of that stuff

(23:06):
.
I mean, when you come throughthe doors, that's just dawn.
You know we just kind of got asafe fort.
You know that we built.
Yeah, everybody's kind ofhelped, you know, build it so
critical today.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I think it's divided as people are.
Oh, definitely, to create that,you know, safe space where
we're just not going to get intothat stuff here.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Well, I won't get into it at B.
I mean, I just sit there.
I know some people want to drawa line for their businesses.
Yeah, it's so done.
We've got so many differentpeople and they come from so
many different.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Why do you want?
And this isn't the objective ofthe business.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Exactly yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
One, one person you know like.
Just rule out half ourcustomers, rule out half of our
employee pool is that smart?

Speaker 4 (23:49):
because you have a stance, is that?
Does that make any sense?
Because I'm principled, yeah,yeah, I totally disagree with
that man.
But on that, like when you'retalking about that fort building
in the organic circumstance,right, it makes me think um, you
know, that's the way I felt myfirst company as well.
It was just I didn'tnecessarily know where I was
going, I just could see, tookthe opportunities as they came,
team built and all that justlike you were talking about, and

(24:10):
it was very genuine.
You know, on the second round,you know, with the new companies
that I got going on, I can seethe value in that and I know
where we can be.
But there's something weird.
It's kind of like to back toyour analogy if, if I had that
experience to be able to afford,and then I go out back into the

(24:30):
woods and now I'm intentionalto want that for it again.
It's almost like you you'retrying to expedite that process,
but you can't expedite theprocess.
You can't expedite it, right.
But?
But I think the thing is islike leaning on that experience
a little bit.
It makes me think about all theprofessional business modeling,
the VC scenario, this wholetrend of how companies should be

(24:52):
ran the amount of money thatthey should raise all these
details right, but the rawreality of it is is a good
company is built by that fork.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
It's about the fork, it's about the fort, it's about
the people.
You get that.
If you got capital and just hadsomeone build that fort for you
, then you don't have theculture.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And you don't have that camaraderie.
That's like yes.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
My theory is that being overcapitalized is a
tremendous disadvantage, becausethen you don't build the
discipline in of every aspect ofyour business to actually make
it survive.
Well, you don't have thecreativity.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, you don't.
The creativity's gone.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
You don't have to respond to the market as quickly
because you got money, oh yeahbecause you got money.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, exactly, no big deal Until that money runs out,
then you're like Until thatmoney runs out, Then you just
have a big debt and then you'rein a worse place.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
It's better to kind of build it slow.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
The only thing I disagree with you guys on.
I'm just going to throw onecounterpoint at Sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
We do want to know that there is something I
disagree with you on.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
There's not much, I know.
I want to hear what it isthough.
No, I'm saying, when I startedthe company that's Zwei Group
today, I had a business plan twoyears before I ever started it,
and we basically followed thatplan and it's still valid today.
That was written in 1986.
We started in 88.
So we really did have aconscious plan and a conscious

(26:17):
effort to grow the company.
Okay, that said, you obviouslydon't know every direction
you're going to go andeverything you're going to pick
up along the way and how itevolves.
And I totally agree with you onthe.

(26:39):
I had no money.
I had a six-month-old babycrying in the background.
No, actually, she was soon tobe a year old, what am I saying?
And I had to make a living.
So that's what propels you tostart with, it's like holy cow,
I've got to Right.
Oh yeah, for sure I've.
Yeah, oh yeah.
But I do think you can have.

(27:01):
I don't necessarily think allplanning is bad.
No, planning is good.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I mean we do plan.
We plan now.
I mean we have planningmeetings, we have like quarterly
meetings, yearly meetings andretreats that we look back at
last year and we plan for thefuture and stuff like that now.
So I mean it is my thoughtprocess is.
But just getting into it for mewas not.
There wasn't a plan.
That was just the only plan.
I didn't have a plan B or plan.

(27:26):
Oh yeah, I understand that.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I decided to do it.
The ships are.
There's no ships left on theshore.
They got burned.
That's right you know that'show we're going.
Yeah, and I do agree that.
I think the culture that youcreate is so critical to your
success, because you can't havea rule for everything, right,
you can't have a policy foreverything, you can't anticipate

(27:48):
everything, but if everybody'srowing the boat the same way,
that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
You know that everybody's rowing the boat the
same way.
Yeah, you know, it's not aboutthe ping pong table in the
office.
It's not about having a beerkeg or kegerator.
Exactly, things are fun.
Those actually can bedistractions more than anything,
but it's it's really just aboutlistening to people, making
sure they feel validated.
You know, just allowing peopleto fail those things are what

(28:14):
really bring treating peoplewith respect.
Treating people with respect,yeah, you know, they're all
valuable.
That's what really brings agood culture.
Honestly, I mean, that's it'suh, it doesn't have to be just
the coolest office space, youknow it just it just doesn't.
And so I've kind of learned mylesson through a lot of that.
I mean, because we used to be,we would, we would get done

(28:35):
working and we were all so closewe didn't want to leave each
other, you know yeah, that'sfantastic we'd walk down to the
bar and have a few drinks andjust continue on the
conversation.
But really I've learned that now.
I've kind of learned like hey,there's a place to stop, allow
people to go home, have theirfamilies, enjoy their families
and help nurture that too aswell.

(28:55):
Yeah, because if that's bad.
There's a balance you have tohave with culture, because if
it's too good, then it's like noone ever wants to leave.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, then their relationships and families fall
apart, all fall apart, and thenthey bring all that back to the
office.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh, yeah, and it's a disaster right, so you got to
like yeah, so there's a balancethere.
I mean, there really is, it's abalancing.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
So, in any case, you have made this business very
successful.
You've been good at pickingpeople.
You're obviously not a controlfreak, okay, which has allowed
it to grow because you're nothaving to approve every nickel
spent and, you know, make everysingle decision.
What else do you think has beenthe keys to your success in

(29:41):
this crowded, mature market thatyou're in?
I mean, how do you guys sell$20 million worth of shirts?
What's your focus?
I mean?

Speaker 1 (29:49):
now our focus is on I mean, what we call ourselves is
a custom licensed apparelcompany, because we really focus
on universities.
We found a niche, niche, niche,whatever you want to say and
it's universities, and so fromthe University of Arkansas, we
just kind of replicated that toanother university, to another

(30:09):
university, to anotheruniversity, instead of trying to
do everything for all people.
We just found that and then wejust learned how to scale.
Yeah, you got really good atthat.
Y'all know Steve Graves, I know, but he's the one that used
that word scale to me one dayand I was like scale, what's
that mean?
Let me look it up you know, Imean seriously I didn't, I

(30:30):
hadn't heard knowledge even theword is scale.
It's like that's an easy one.
What are you talking about?
Scale?
Is that a scale that you knowwhat you know?
But it's like I was thinking,okay, this that makes sense, you
know.
So I just thought, so kind ofwhat I did is just fired pretty
much all the customers.
That really was just causing usjust to pedal with not getting

(30:52):
and not go anywhere, like MarkWag like a construction company.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Like forget our little crappy order of t-shirts.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
No, like we're done with the bright orange sheet.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
We don't need that.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
No, we don't wear bright orange.
I know Y'all wore black.
You had a tight brand with yourMark Swaggy.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
I know we followed your lead.
You loved that black.
I did love that black.
I mean you were stuck in the90s.
You're off that plate.
You love it, I he loves blackLove.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Black August loves it .

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I wore it for you today.
I know you did.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
So that was the one thing I prepared.
Hey, wear black.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Wear black.
So that was a great focus foryou.
Now, obviously, here you'relocated in Fayetteville, which
is where the U of A is, and soyou had that connection.
We all know each other.
We're not related as we talkedabout earlier.
In this state everybody knowseach other.
Well, we're related.
We're physically related, but Ialways said you've got to be 14

(31:48):
to get married here unlessyou're related.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
I want to be related to both of y'all so I can get
that money.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
So you've got the wrong guy here, you've got the
wrong guy here too.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
There's no money to be found here.
All of a sudden, no one'ssuccessful.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
So, but anyway, I'm trying to remember where I was
going with that.
How did you build that samerelationship with these other
colleges and universities?

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I mean it was really just the same way we did here.
I mean I'd have to drive there,talk with the licensing
director, just build thoserelationships but didn't they
say well, you're not from aroundhere, boy.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Are you like when you went to Mississippi State or
whatever right exactly?

Speaker 1 (32:30):
you're not from around here, boy you're not from
around here, yeah, you know,we've got our local screen
printer down the road, yeah, sohow do you counter that?
So, uh, we countered it by justshowing them what we did, what
we offered different from thosepeople, and so so to to allow
their students to be able tohave an option, and so that kind
of so we had somedifferentiators that pulled us

(32:54):
apart.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
One of those was water-based screen printing
which is more environmentallysound and also holds up better
right in the wash and all.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I think so, and it just looks good, it's soft,
it just feels good.
It's not, it's not like a bigpiece of plastic on you.
Oh yeah, you know you'resweating and it just feels.
Hate that, yeah.
And so, and then also, we wereone of the first people to use
comfort colors.
And there was, they were asmall company, also out about in
new york city, and what'sthatfort Colors is a brand that

(33:22):
just all the sorority girlswanted at the time.
You could go down to 30A toSeaside and that's the shirt
that they used.
So they make the shirt.
They weren't being distributedin our normal distribution
houses, so this is the actualT-shirt.
This is the actual T-shirt Okayso the quality of the fabric,
the quality of the fabric, andit was super soft.

(33:44):
It was, you know, ring-spuncotton, still had that kind of
little bit of heavy weight to it, but it was just super soft and
it just held up really well andso we started using that and
between using that shirt andthen quality designs, I mean
just always having.
You know, we've pridedourselves on being more of an
art house.
I think me not having equipmentfor the first 10 years really

(34:06):
made us into an art house first,and so we have interesting.
We have 20 designers or they'reall they're all.
They're all illustrators thatwork at the 20, 20 illustrators
that work every day in thebuilding down here in south fed
just cranking out, just crankingout designs.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Just cranking out designs.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
And they have such the coolest kind of culture in
their office.
Those people love what they do.
Oh, they do.
They enjoy it, they enjoyworking around each other and
they just feed off each other.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, it's innovating , it's fun, Isn't that amazing?
Though, 20 designers, that'sawesome.
So do you just pick the best ofwhat they come out with?
How do you do that?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
because they're all probably they're all just
pulling jobs off a job board.
So I mean we've got likeprobably 100 jobs a day that are
coming through and that they'rethey're just working on, they
just look at the brief and theystart yeah, we've got, we've got
an art director that's, youknow that hands out.
I say they know how differentpeople you know, their different
looks that they have, they go.
Oh, you'd be great on this,this job right here.

(35:02):
We want you to do this one andthis one and this one that is so
cool she'll, she'll assign jobsto the different artists and
whatnot, and so, and thensometimes the artists were like,
hey, I really want to do thisjob, you know, and so that's
something that's fun, that isreally cool.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
So I want to take I want to change gears for a
minute now, so tell us aboutwhat you're doing in Uganda.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Okay.
So you know, kind of God's myage and really hopefully any age
, but it's just that you want tokind of move from success to
more significance, you know, andkind of doing stuff that's more
purpose-driven Right, threeyears ago I went to Uganda with
my church that I go to down inFlorida, and just me and my wife

(35:47):
have been supporting threegirls over there and I wanted to
go meet them.
I wanted to go see if this wasreal.
I've never been to Africa.
I wanted to see if it was justkind of am I just giving money
or what?
And I got to have lunch withthese three girls and it was
really amazing to see thedifference that $50 a month for
each of them just made you knowin their lives.
It gave them school to go toand it gave them a meal at their

(36:10):
school and, uh, and just to seethem succeed in that way over
the last few years that we'dbeen doing that and so.
But through that I also noticedthat, uh, I really our church
went over there for an orphanageand baby care and all this
stuff.
I was like I don't know whatI'm doing.
They said what have you beendoing all your life?

(36:31):
I said, well, all I've done isgrow a business.
They said, oh well, let's putyou with some business guys and
why don't you talk to them?
And I really thought it wasgoing to be like 10 guys and it
ended up being 100 men thatshowed up and they were just so
enthusiastic about learning justanything they could about

(36:53):
business.
And Uganda is a very youngcountry.
It's 78% of Ugandans are underthe age of 30.
Yeah, wow, I mean because of thegenocide, aids and all this
other stuff that's happened inUganda, it really kind of the
older generation just kind ofgave up, I mean, and so they
don't have a lot of good mentors, right.
But now that, uh, there's theinternet that's opened up all

(37:14):
over africa, now they're just,they feel like these young kids
are just so creative and theyjust and they're kind of like
the kid that I was talking aboutthat's riding the bike down,
you know, and they're startingto build stuff, making their
forts.
Now they've got their forts andthey're building stuff and it's
really unique and incredibleinnovations that they're doing
over there, and so with noresources at all.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
With no resources, yeah, no money, right absolutely
absolutely, yeah, absolutelynothing.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
And so and they really enjoyed they could
resonate with my story, withbeing limited kind of.
It's kind of very similar tothe way they have to do things
over there and just yeah, and sothat one hour meeting lasted
all morning and uh, and then itjust spurred me to create a
non-profit called bold creatorscout thought, wow, I need to go

(38:02):
back and they wanted me to comeback and I wanted to bring more
entrepreneurs over there tohelp kind of walk alongside them
and walk alongside these otherentrepreneurs and and just kind
of help guide them.
Not and if, if they chose toinvest in their company or
something like that.
So now we, for the last two.
Well, last year I brought 14guys over there and we had 35

(38:23):
ugandans and we kind of went,kind of went through a program.
We we use Work Matters materialfor 10 weeks prior just to kind
of get to know them, to have abase.
It's a faith-based kind oforganization that's just really
targeted on helping them growtheir businesses, how to hire

(38:44):
people, how to create jobs.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
But you're not giving them money.
At this point, I'm not givingthem money.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, there's no money.
There's no money involved inthis, Other than just like it's
expensive to get there.
It costs probably about $2,500for.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Sure, you guys are giving your valuable time.
Yeah, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
But there's no money involved in this, as far as like
trying to.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, have you seen like those micro lending
programs, like I think it's Kiva, is that it Because I give some
money to them?

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, I mean, I could see this thing growing where
there might be an arm, wherethere might be some micro
lending Right Happening.
I mean because even $500 or$1,000.
Makes a huge difference, youknow, as a new sewing machine or
does something right, or buysome seeds or whatever, yeah it
makes.
Get some a cow that milks andyeah, right, makes.
It makes a huge difference.
Yeah and so, yeah, I can seethat being.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
I mean like an as growth of this thing this is.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
It feels like being limited in the early stage, this
non-profit actually right now,because it's real messy and uh
it's and we're trying to figureourselves out.
We didn't have, we didn't again, I didn't write out a plan,
yeah, you know, but I'm justkind of just doing it.
It was last year, went offreally well.
The guys that went with mebelieved in me and believed in

(40:00):
you know the cause, the mission,yeah, and so now I've got
another great group of guysgoing.
Actually, uh, donnie smith, oneof the past ceos of of Tyson's,
going to come in and speak atone of the sessions.
So it's, we've got a, we've gota good group of guys going that
they're all like just successfulentrepreneurs in their own

(40:24):
right and they just, they justwant to be able to give back.
So it's cool.
It's really cool, it's reallycool to do this.
I'm I'll just do it as long asI can, or as long as I.
You know how many times you'vebeen over there well, this will
be my third time.
Okay, let's talk.
It's going in july again, so isit?
You feel like it's safe overthere for you as americans?
It's very safe.
You know what you, but yougoogle it and it says that you

(40:47):
know about the terrace and allthis stuff, about heads going
off in churches and all thisstuff.
But I'm like I know people overthere now I talk to them all
the time, you know it's like andthat's just, it's just a
different narrative over thereand it is what we hear over here
, you know.
So it's just it's crazy whatyou hear on the news it's yeah,
you know it.
Really it makes you and youjust wow, you're asking me to go

(41:09):
to Uganda, I mean just in thejungle, and I mean it's, we're
staying at nice hotels and havenice Well, ready to level up
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Speaker 2 (41:19):
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Speaker 3 (41:33):
You know, I don't want to take us too far, of
course, but I'm on the board ofthis company called Miyamoto
International, worked with KipMiyamoto since he started out,
basically.
But we have offices all overthe globe and Kip has done such
a good job because he goes't, hegoes over to these foreign
countries and immediatelyestablishes a rapport with the

(41:53):
people, because he doesn't tryto impose american prep.
You know customs, practices,values.
He eats their food, oh yeah, heworks on their schedule, he
acts like them, he dresses likethem.
I mean it just, you take allthe sort of barriers away and

(42:13):
then and he's very well acceptedDoesn't matter what country he
goes into.
He did study anthropologybefore he became an engineer.
Interestingly enough, you know,and I so.
Have you found that to be thecase yourselves?
I found?

Speaker 1 (42:28):
the cases that we're there's we have more
similarities than we dodifferences, honestly, and even
though I mean when you go deepinto Africa and you go out and
you see the different villagesand stuff, it's just really just
kind of really just poor areas,sure, sure, but it's they have
the same struggles and the same.

(42:48):
I mean people that are startingbusinesses, anyway that I'm,
that I'm reporting to andworking with.
I mean they deal withloneliness and insecurities and
all that stuff that you knowwe're dealing with.
Everybody thinks you're crazy,go get a job yeah right.
Exactly, yeah, I mean, they dealwith all the same things that
we deal with.
We're trying to start abusiness, and so it's real

(43:09):
interesting as you kind of getto know them and they go, oh wow
, so you felt this way too.
Yeah, so it's just a beautifulthing.
I'm really loving it.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
So what's it do for you, though?
I mean, like you talk aboutgoing from success to
significance, right, where isthat landing with you after this
experience?

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I think it's just.
It makes me want to do it more.
I mean just give back more.
I mean it's not like you canonly have so much stuff.
Yeah, you wrote something onthis the other day.
Yeah, I did.
I commented on it.
I was thinking, yeah, I'm justdone with stuff.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah, it's like we have everything we need, right,
and then some.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
When you go over there to see how little they
live on and I'm just like theythink we're blessed because we
have all this stuff, I'mthinking y'all are blessed.
You do not know how blessed youare that you know how to live
on so little and how joyful andhow happy you are.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
And it's just crazy to see that's what you said.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
That joy, yeah, and just the laughter.
I mean you can't laugh ifyou're sad, you can't sing if
you're sad.
And these people laugh, theysing.
I mean they're just like themost joyful people on earth.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
It's funny you say that, like my wife, tara, she's
a nurse practitioner and she'sbeen doing these medical mission
trips to, like, guatemala,ecuador.
I mean I think she might havegone to Uganda, but she says the
same thing.
She's like they go to veryimpoverished areas where they
don't have medical, yeah, yeah,facilities.
They set these little pop-upclinics but she's, like you know

(44:39):
, so gratified.
Everybody there is just soincredibly joyful, yeah, and
happy and grateful.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I mean, that's what it's done for me.
Honestly, it's really kind ofbrought me back to kind of like
hey, I don't you know just thatjoy and where it come from.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, that's great man.
Yeah, you don't get it fromyour house and your gated
community and your expensiveEuropean cars.
You know what I mean it justdoesn't do anything for you at
some point.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
Not at all.
Yeah, it comes down to people,it comes down to culture.
Yeah, right, I mean, what youreally have done is you've kind
of gone back into the like.
You've discovered a cultureagain.
Oh yeah, a raw culture.
Oh yeah, exactly, that bringsyou joy.
Well, yeah, we're all wantingto be part of the team, right?
I mean, we're all wanting to begood group of people, do

(45:26):
something significant,purposeful.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
That's what all this discussion's about yeah, and the
problem is in our culture today.
It's so, everybody's soalienated and we're all just
tethered electronically but notactually physically, like
everybody's remote working andgetting all their news and
connection through social media,and it's all bullshit.
I'm sorry, no, I'm 100, but itis it's like you got to get

(45:49):
together with people.
It breeds dissatisfaction.
It breeds um vilification ofother people.
It does all these things.
Oh, yeah, that if you were justtogether more right.
You know exactly.
It used to be one of my tacticsif two people don't get along
in the office and they're bothgood people, make them sit next

(46:10):
to each other, put them in thesame room, yeah, and you know
what the odds are that theirrelationship's going to improve.
Yeah, yeah, because they get toknow each other actually.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah, so I said this, that I said this at, uh, a
couple days ago at an event, butyou know, it's funny, there's
two things here at play.
Like it's, it comes down towork and labor.
Right, we're designed to workand you always say that and it's
true that it's so true.
Like I'm at my cave springsproperty, I sit up there and I,

(46:40):
you know the river's there, andI'm watching this goose right,
this, this two geese right, momand dad, mom's nesting, laying
eggs, right and so, but he staysreally close.
But they're fighting for theirsurvival every day.
If they decide to chill andisolate, and like I'm gonna do,
you know, no man, you're dead,like everything, if you don't

(47:03):
work, some coyotes gonna comealong and fight their heads off
dude.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Dude yeah, the water's going to rise and their
heads float away.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Like you've got to be aware, you've got to be
intentionally working and forsome reason in our American
culture we have decided that youdon't have to really work.
Like the whole goal for a lotof folks is to work as little as
possible and enjoy life, hippieout a little bit.
It's a disaster, and I thinkthat when we talk about this

(47:30):
culture, you can talk about that.
I love the fort buildinganalogy.
I do too.
I love that.
We're going to use that.
Yeah, because here's what theydid.
They built a fort, but whatwere they doing?
They were working.
Yeah, they were buildingsomething together.
It wasn't hey, I'm eric and Ihave these cooperate, yeah man,
you're in the middle of work,that's where the relationship is
, yeah, and so if you isolateand get remote, then you don't

(47:51):
have as much of that Like.
You basically have reduced theimpact by at least 50% if you're
not in person.
Yep, you know, and you don'twork together, yep, I mean we're
here to create Exactly.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
We're here to create Exactly.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
We're just like.
We just need to always becreating.
It doesn't have to be for bigmoney or anything, just here to
create, create a path home,create this great, I mean just
whatever it is.
Just create, you know.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
Yeah, make something, you know this is an inspiring
conversation for me.
I'll be honest with you, likeit really is, because you know,
I mean been, I've been creatinga couple of different things,
you know back with thewagon.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
You are a hard worker .
I'm thinking of all thesethings.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
This brings me back to the root of why I mean, like,
why would I do this to beginwith?
Well, it's because that's whatI'm doing.
But I mean really what I'mdoing is I'm enjoying working
with other people to create andbuild something.
And this conversation about thefort and about being limited
and you don't have to have allthe answers, you don't have, you
know.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
I mean, just work and do it and navigate, yeah, yeah,
hustling, but this is also howyou evolve and stay relevant.
Okay, if you just, you know, ifyou think back and you go, you
know, I can't say it's neveroccurred to me that I thought,
oh, gee, gee, if I had justtaken all my money at this point
in time not done anything else,but what am I gonna be doing,

(49:15):
just like?
Where are we going out to eattonight at four o'clock?
you know, and then just you know, hook me up.
What drugs do I need now tostay alive?
Okay, it's like you're, you're,you're done.
Oh yeah, you're just done.
You, you won't be evolving, youwon't be learning, you won't be
helping anybody.
You'll be transcending.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
I'm with you there.
I told my wife it's not too longago.
I said hey, I said what do we?
Uh, I said maybe she just selleverything and just like, and
just kind of, just, you know,just live, you know and just not
worry about it, right, just.
And she looked at me and shepoints she says you're not going
to do that, you're going towork.
And she's like I was like okay,what are you talking about?

(49:53):
You know like you need more,you know like what.
And she's like.
She said she said no, no, no,no, you got you.
You're misreading me.
She says you love to work.
Yeah, that's right, you lovelike you.
She says that's your golf.
I mean like that's it exactly,so it.
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
So it's my golf None of us do.
I like to create things Me too.
I like my hobbies, I likeworking on stuff, I like
improving stuff, I like workingwith people, helping people.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
It's another societal type of thing.
Where you like, somewhere alongthe way in the 1900s, right,
somebody invented this work,retirement, you know, golf
course, community.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
I might even have been at this work.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Retirement golf course community.
Yeah, where'd that come from?
It's fabricated, yes, and thereality is if you're a freaking
goose and you're 80 years old,right, and you decide to quit
working and retire, you're goingto die.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Look at Warren Buffett and his partner there
who just recently passed away.
I think he was what 99 yearsold or whatever, and Warren's
90-something.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
he doesn't need to work right but he does because
he likes it yeah, man, that'swhat he is, that's his purpose.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
It's your identity.
Yes, I mean, and there'snothing zero percent wrong with
and we've been taught thisthere's zero percent wrong with
your identity being work.
Yeah, like we have.
We have acted like that.
There's some other identitythat we should have.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Yeah, like somehow you failed because that's the
way you continue to operate.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Yeah, and you got this pressure and you don't want
to bring it up.
Don't work too hard, Don't youknow all these rules?
Stress is the cause of it,Right?
And so we think that ouridentity is in a freaking golf
course or a tennis court, youknow, at some later stage in
life, bullshit, yeah.
Yeah, if your identity, if yourealize your identity, is in
work, you know who you are whenyou're 40, 50, 60, yeah, and you

(51:37):
work till you die.
Yeah, and you've been happy thewhole damn time and you
contributed to society yeah, andlike what you're providing.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Yeah, right, right.
I mean I think that's.
You're absolutely right, you'lllive longer and you'll be
happier.
You probably won't getalzheimer's as early, probably
not.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
You know what I mean, because you're keeping your
brain going absolutely the onlything I would, the only thing I
would say is don't identifyyourself as your business, like,
like, yeah, true, and like Ishould, yeah, your logo says oh,
you should put your logo, youknow, tattoo it on your arm.
I agree, I want to be.
I'm not being limited.
I said a group of people, butI'm not being right.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
You know it's a problem with that.
I don't ever want to be.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I mean like it'll fail eventually or something you
know it's not gonna make ityour baby, and then you're good.
If it, then your identity istied up.
If your identity is tied up init and it does falter, then
you're going to be very, verydepressed.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Right.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
That's the point.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
That's a good point.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Somebody might misinterpretthat, but really you're working
and creating and doing that.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
That's what we were put on this earth for.
Yeah, boom, yeah.
Exactly, and that wasn't notfor a time period, not for 30
years and stop, 40 years andstop.
It's just like to do it.
You know to die.
And when you're two and a halfyears old, coloring, you know,
yeah you're creating a picture.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
I want to bring up one last topic, though, because
this is a fascinating discussion.
It's always great being withyou, Ben.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Oh, I enjoy being with y'all about me but I do and
he's always like one up andhe's like I'm the host of the
show.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
You're freaking, you're just.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
I can do this without you.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Like I can't wait to outwork you.
Is that how you really feel?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
There's always a little truth to every lie.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
I don't feel that way , I'm just messing with you, bro
, I was just going to say, butthe three of us.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
My identity is not wrapped up in big talk about
stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I think all three of us, though, would admit one
thing, and that is sure we allhad these businesses that were
successful, that were sort ofour foundation, right, yeah, our
foundational business.
Now, we all do other things too, right?
Yeah?
Yeah, we have to acknowledgethe fact that we may not be as

(53:52):
successful in all the venturesthat follow.
Yeah, okay, but, and you know,if we just wanted to make the
most amount of money any of us,yeah, we would just stay what
we're doing and just focus onlyon that.
Just keep going on that,because we're good at that,
right, yeah, but that doesn'tmean that's the whole purpose.
Yeah, that's right.
There are other things we wantto do, right, there's other ways

(54:12):
that we can learn.
There are other people we canhelp.
There are other things beyondjust trying to be as successful
as we can be in this onebusiness.
Yeah, no, absolutely right,don't you think?
Oh, absolutely yeah for sure.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
when you say that, it makes me think about well, why
do we not choose that?
Because I think there's thrillin building a new fort.
Oh sure yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I mean the people that worked at B, unlimited on
their early years.
Those were the fun years, right, right, and then now it's more
mature.
It's like it's not as fun, youknow.
And I'm glad that a lot of thepeople that work there now
didn't work there the earlyyears because they look at it
differently.
Because, just like thatmarriage I talked about earlier,
you know the guy said he'smarried 28 times.

(54:58):
Your business changesconstantly and as it matures
it's different.
You know, and it was at theearly years.
Yeah, we don't all like itnecessarily.
We're not all sleeping on thecouch and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
And you shouldn't be upset with that evolution yeah
that's fine, that's growth,that's natural what happens.
I mean people will say stufflike if it's different at the
company that I sold, how doesthat make me feel I'm?

Speaker 3 (55:28):
like I don't know it doesn I sold like how does that
make me feel?

Speaker 1 (55:29):
I'm like I don't.
I mean, it doesn't make me feelanyway, right, exactly.
I mean it's not my Rightexactly.
It's supposed to change.
It's always changed.
It's never not stayed the same.
If it stays the same, it dies.
That's right, and it givesdifferent benefits at different
stages.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
You know now, the people that were with me in the
early days are now making a lotmore money.
Their careers going this way,their chance.
You know.
I mean you got to look at thepositives of the challenge,
right, because if you focus onthe negatives and you know
you'll be, you'll be well, noneof none of us would be
entrepreneurs and businessowners if we focused on the
negatives.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
No, I mean, it would.
Just, you just wouldn't do thethings that you do Exactly.
You always believe that,whatever the odds are, you can
beat, yeah, and that you'regoing to overcome any obstacle
that hits your way.
You may have setbacks, you mayhave problems, but the longer we
do this stuff, the older we get, the more we know we shall
overcome yes, that's true.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
Isn't that the truth?
Yeah yep, yeah, it's good, andkeep networking like this,
because whenever my stuff failsthen I mean I can lean on you
two to bail you out.
I was gonna lean on you to bailme out.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
no, bro, wait a minute, I do, I do, I do see, I
do see the uh advantages now ofjust walking along this road
together.
You know, sure, yeah, eveny'all's this podcast, I mean,
and the many people that y'allare talking about, you know,
small business it just it'shelping people walk along
together in this journey, whichthat's huge.

(56:53):
That really is huge to kind ofbe able to just talk about this
stuff.
Sure, and not try to, you'renot alone.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
You know you're not alone.
Well, that's when Mark came upwith this idea and he started
this podcast, you know, and heasked me to be part of it.
But you're right, theconversation is so in-depth and
so versatile, you have to havesomething that you're dedicating
time with.
Hell.
We're on episode 70 orsomething.

(57:19):
No, we're on 80-something now.
80-something now.
Yeah, can you believe that?
I mean, that's 80 at leasthours of content.
I know, you know, I know.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
We never run out of stuff to talk about.
No, I know Every time.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Especially if we get Ben in here.
I'm sitting there thinking Icouldn't find anybody else.
I guess we'll call Ben.
He'll say yes, well, there'ssome of that too.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Hey, we do need to call Brian.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Because he's really successful.
Brian has been.
Now Brian is.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Brian is out there.
He's out there Now.
He's the one.
He is a great guy, though, butwe do need to get Brian in here
too, absolutely, but anyway,well, ben, we thank you for
coming today.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Oh, this has been fun .
Yeah, it's made my morning,yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
It's enjoyable it is.
We are still continuing to lookfor sponsors of this show.
If anybody has an interest,please reach out to us at
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom.
We'd love to take your moneyand promote your wares.
As long as there's something webelieve in, somebody's got to

(58:24):
pay for this state of the art.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I thank God I got a rich uncle here.
This is really niceof-the-artstudio.
I thank God I got a rich unclehere.
I mean right now, this isreally nice.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Appreciate it.
This is great, and Eric hasbeen so generous to donate this
studio to us and all his talentpeople he's got out here that
make this whole thing work.
I'm telling you it's impressive.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
There's a big team at Podcast Videos.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
It really is.
That's fun.
Yeah, yeah, they're workinghard together.
It's really cool.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
So, in any case, we will see you all next week, and
until then, this has beenanother episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Love it.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small

(59:30):
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